God's seven day week is riddled with heathen references...The Sun-day, Moon-day, Tiws-day, Wodens-day, Thors-day, Fria-day, Saturn-day. He could have tried harder with the branding.
Nitpick, the week names aren't based on Germanic paganism. The names are based on Roman week names. The Latin names where then replaced with local names, in this case Germanic. But the system is Roman. Of course they're still pagan but the Germanic names themselves don't hint at the past as the system wasn't Germanic.
@@mormacil no, they're based on the Roman names in other languages (French, for example) but English owes more to the Norse and Germanic languages. The Romans saddled us with September, October, November, and December ...which of course are NOT the seventh through tenth months in our current calendar. And we long ago stopped using the Nones, the Ides, the Kalends...
LeChef, " I know people are desperate these days." Well he proves that. My research finds that the 7 day cycle is based on a 21 B.C. Sumerian calendar which corresponds to phases of the moon.
From Encyclopedia Britannica : Evidence indicates that the Jews borrowed the idea of the week from Mesopotamia, for the Sumerians and the Babylonians divided the year into weeks of seven days each, one of which they designated a day of recreation.
That's correct, but the 7 day week was developed to correspond with moon phases, 7 days is the length of time it takes to transition between each phase. And was long before the Yahweh character created earth lol
I actually did a long English course on this. And yes, the Sumerians started this and each country adapted to their liking. For example, Mittwoch, mid-week in German.
Because they have been told that to doubt is to suffer eternal torture. And they doubt all the time ( because their shit is doubtful 😅). This anyone who says something that makes them doubt more seems like a personal attack. They think “ this person wants me to be tortured.” If you honestly believed that you would likely also be angry. This is one of the actual mental tortures that can be directly attributed to religion.
Lloyd, I thoroughly appreciated your outright laughing at the caller's claim of an "infallible" argument. It's an open and honest response to a outrageously ridiculous statement. I'm reminded of a complaint by a caller that atheists didn't emote enough. You just put the lie to that proposition. It'd be OK if all the hosts emoted a bit when faced with outrageously ridiculous statements.
Callers like that make for good entertainment. Perhaps he wasn’t trolling, as in he really believes his nonsense proves his God’s existence. Either way, you guys handled it well.
I can't remember his channel name here on TH-cam, but he keeps going on and on about this seven day cycle. If he is a troll, he's a very dedicated one.
@@almightyshippo1197 unfortunately the majority of religious people are unknowing trolls for the "cause". Blind indoctrination has a way of doing that.
Ancient Israel did not have names for the days in a week except the sabbath day. Their months were based the lunar cycle of 30 days and their year was 360days long. The pagan names for the days no doubt came from ancient Babylon with its sex worship. The Babylonian week was associated with the seven heavenly bodies; the Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus , and Saturn. Romans inherited the seven day week from Babylon. The emperor of Rome created the Catholic church that used the Babylonian week. Ancient Babylon is the mother of all the earths false religions today. An interesting point is the fish image that so many people display on their cars. It is in fact a fertility symbol of pagan origin that represents the female sex organ. The Ankh of the Egyptians, was a symbol of life, because it represents the feminine yoni in union with the masculine tau cross.” The Babylonians passed on to the Egyptians the cross which came from Semiramis, Nimrods mother and lover. When Nimrod died Semiramis erected the sacred pole used in sex worship with the cross beam to represent their sexual union. Christendom proudly displays a cross [the feminine yoni in union with the masculine tau cross] as the symbol of Christianity.
The Bible mentions a seven-day week. Lots of people followed the teachings of the Bible. We use a seven day week. That's a consequence, not a prediction.
@@petermirtitsch1235 I get it, but that's irrelevant. Even if it weren't, the sheer fact that it's proclaimed by the dominant religion makes the callers claim redundant and unimpressive
He sounds like he's learned a lot of words but not their definitions. Then jammed his favorites together to spew a patchwork of b.s. he's clearly very proud of lol. I guess when you're that low, you can still look down on people if you stand on your head...
There has been a caller who used an argument like that. He claimed that when ever anyone on the planet got hurt etc they would say "oh my God". Not realizing that that is a Western phrase.
Lloyd's laughter is everything. How the man made creation of the calendar by observing natural cycles proves a god is beyond me. Also, speaking of people being thoroughly convinced of their absurd hypothesis being true I recommend looking up a small channel called Flat Earth Philosophy. I'm reluctant to give him more views but his absolute conviction and certainty is very similar to Le Chef's here. These people really believe this shit and no matter how many facts, how much logic and reason you throw at them the cognitive dissonance kicks in and overpowers all. It is an interesting insight into the human psyche.
The seven day week doesn't really influence this. That is caused by a solar year being roughly a quarter of a day longer than 365 days we normally approximate it as.
The seven-day week originates from the calendar of the Babylonians, which in turn is based on a Sumerian calendar dated to 21st-century B.C. Seven days corresponds to the time it takes for a moon to transition between each phase: full, waning half, new and waxing half.
This is true, but their "argument" is NOT that the Bible was the first to use a 7-day week, it's that the Bible "predicted" that the 7-day week would become universal, and it's now universal, therefore Jesus.
@@puckerings So the counter is that the Javanese currently use a five day cycle, so the seven day cycle isn't universal. The claim also doesn't state when or how this will occur. Maybe the Javanese will change to 7 days but maybe some countries or all of Earth will switch at some later point in the future to 10 days, 6 days, 8 days... who knows! Steelmanning this claim would require "improving it" by adding extra info, of which the deluded idiot didn't think.
You heard it here, folks, a seven day week proves the existence of an almighty torturer in the sky. [Edit:] The year isn't a multiple of seven days long, and the leap year shows even more imperfection of any sort of god's timekeeping.
In ancient times, telling time by the Moon was the easiest and most accessible form of time-keeping. A lunar month is about 29 days long, so each lunar phase is therefore about 7 days. If you want to divide the lunar month into a whole number of days, a 7-day week is the simplest method. Is this really so hard to understand?
Matt has this nice analogy that he likes to bring out: "If I order a medium rare-steak and the waiter brings me a medium-rare steak, did I make a prophecy that came true?" LeChef is basically saying YES. The Bible describes a seven day week, belief in the Bible and with it the seven day week spread through the western world and with advent of global trading throughout the rest of the world And now he goes back and says "See, bible says seven day week, everyone's calendar says seven day week, therefore god!"
The seven-day week...so accurate that we need to add an extra day every four years to keep the seasons properly aligned. There's some "perfect" divine mathematics for you.
Yea. But to him. That doesn't count. He goes into some BS that the Babylonians 7 day info we have is incorrect. Somehow he knows the Babylonians correct cycle.
@@dj_menyo839 Oh really! He must have thought that up recently because he didn't say that to me when I brought up the Sumerians and Babylonians to him.
My own objection to Christianity has evolved over the past few decades. Originally it could have been called political, in that I was reacting to the overreach of religion - especially in its authoritarian aspects - into areas of public life that affect us all, and which disproportionately affect minorities of all kinds. In recent years my perspective has shifted towards a more psychological perspective. The political overreach of religion has become even more extreme in the meantime, but I see more definitively that it's built simply upon BAD REASONING. Its political arguments are based upon bad reasoning, and its supporters, without exception, draw upon bad reasoning in defense of the religion itself and its epistemology in particular. The problem is by no means limited to Christian fundamentalism. Adherents of other religions apply all of the same bad reasoning in their arguments. I think this is a remarkable discovery. Whether it's Christianity or Islam or Buddhism or some form of New Age spirituality, the defense of the belief system is invariably built on layer upon layer of fallacy. It's all driven by emotion, of course, not reason, and that's in one sense at the heart of the problem. Wishful or fearful thinking does not a sound epistemology make. But I don't think that we can expect each other to stop having strong feelings. Let's have our feelings, but be prepared to examine them kindly but with a critical eye. We have to get better at critical thinking, at building rational rather than emotional arguments, and at detecting fallacies even in our own arguments. Nothing good comes of bad ideas based on bad reasoning, no matter how much it may soothe us.
Nice post and I would like to add that religions are tribal group identities. Members strongly identify with and are bonded to their group. Justifications for their instinctual emotions become a tangled web having nothing to do with reason or logic.
I'm sure others said the same, but several points: 1. As was mentioned toward the end, the Hebrews did not invent the 7-day week and evidence suggests it predates them and was used by the Sumerians and Babylonians, among others. It wasn't a new idea, even then. But there were a couple of people the Hebrews didn't get along with, like the Egyptians and Romans, who both used 10-day weeks. So taking a known idea that runs contrary to what your "enemies" used, shaking it at them in defiance, and going "someday you, too, will use THIS idea and not your own!" isn't surprising and seems like a fairly standard act of cultural defiance. 2. The 7-day week being used worldwide is also somewhat semantical. The Indonesian nation of Java, for example, uses a layered calendar system whereby they do mostly lay their calendars out in the 7-day week format *visually*, while simultaneously still using their traditional 5-day week, as well. So it's like: Sunday = JavaDay1, Monday = JavaDay2, Tuesday = JavaDay3, Wednesday = JavaDay 4, Thursday = JavaDay5, Friday = JavaDay1 (again), and Saturday = JavaDay 2 (again)...and so on. There are several other places with similar set-ups, where they follow the global standard on one hand (because we live in an interconnected world and it is just easier), but also layer and tweak it with their own traditional beliefs, formats, and meaning, so you could quibble whether or not everyone is really "following" it or not. 3. Also...7 days is simply NOT that weird a prediction. Months were mostly based on lunar cycles originally. And you know what divides up into four 7-day periods real nicely? The lunar cycle, which came up near the end as well. And not only is the math close but the cycle itself lends itself to a 4-way split--New, Waxing, Full, Waning. It wasn't inevitable, but nor is it that shocking a lot of places would just naturally gravitate towards something similar to that. 4. Seven as a mystical number is prehistorically ancient. MANY cultures had beliefs, superstitions, and assertions about the number 7. Like the Greeks and Romans would often lump the sun and moon in with the 5 known planets as the 7 special objects in the sky. And those heavenly bodies were worshiped AS GODS by people the world over, like the Mesopotamians. Given how much of the calendar is dominated by religion, it would not be unfathomable that each of those moving heavenly bodies gets its own day. 5. It also seems a *tad* weird that the only--or at least "best"--prediction the Bible can make to sway the hearts and minds of people all over the world and convince them of the existence of a higher authority is..."someday, hundreds or maybe thousands of years from now, everyone in the world will finally kinda use 7-day weeks! (And what's more, for many people, those days shall be named in honor of false Norse and Roman deities and Paganistic nature worship practices)." And that's it? They best you got? Really?
Isn’t this just the math of a year round trip around the sun?? All cultures that live on the same planet would come up with a similar math equations???
No matter the Christian denomination, they always forget, there were other civilizations in other parts of the world not known the writers of the books of the Bible, who had their own calendars and cycles, which were very accurate, like the Mayas -wrote this before Kenneth mentioned them in the video lol, that pyramid is a very accurate calendar - and who lived under those cycles until they were conquered by Catholic kings and forced into Catholic beliefs. As for "universal implications", the 7 day cycle almost works with our planet's rotation around the Sun -leap year and all - but it doesn't work for any other planet that doesn't rotate around its star at the same speed as ours does.
*Star Trek* predicted iPads, therefore *Star Trek* is the One True Religion… …his “argument” is *that* ridiculous. So, he’s either a great example of the “Dunning-Kruger effect” or he’s a masochist who gets off on being laughed at. Plus, he responds to questions like a kid who fell asleep in class, then suddenly snapped awake when the teacher called his name…
Leaving aside that the 7 day week is not a biblical invention, predating it by long periods of time, it doesn’t predict a seven day week at all. It’s followers imposed a seven day week. As Paulogia points out, a prediction is not a prediction of people are actively trying to make it occur. Now, even assuming it were a prediction, it would have been a Jewish prediction and, therefore, if it were confirmatory, it would be confirmatory of Judaism, not Christianity.
The lunar month is 29.5 days. There are four major "events" in that month: New, half, full, and half again. 29.5 divided by four is 7.3. That's why several cultures around the world had seven day weeks. The Bible was written AFTER the middle east started using seven day weeks. It's not a prediction, it's a retcon.
We talked about how people can go through an angry atheist stage but in my experience a lot of religious people are angry like this too. Seems to me these two hosts are two of the happiest most laid-back people, and you gave me some ideas for how to calm people down when I'm trying to talk to them online. Why are Christians so mad? Just sit back and worship, that's all you have to do to literally live for an eternity in a literal golden mansion in the literal sky right? So why are you guys so mad 😡?
I honestly think it’s either 1) a genuine zeal for what they believe is the truth or 2) insecurities that they cannot shake that they very well could be wrong.
It can't be easy being a christian. Frustration that god doesn't show up and settle the matter. Fear of hell, if not personally then for the people you know who are damned. Guilt about having lustful thoughts. Weird sexual hangups. That constant nagging doubt that it's all made up. Bloody scientists constantly finding stuff that doesn't fit in with the damn book...
@@loki6626 yeah, your right thank you. I prayed everyday when I was about 8 years old for my favorite stuffed animal to come to life and be my friend. Had social anxiety. That's when I gave up believing. I was young but I remember that pain though. Intense. I can't imagine feeling that for thirty years.
I spoke with his minders at the institution and they assure me that they'll do their best to keep him away from the telephones...unfortunately there's only so much supervision they can guarantee during "free time" on his wing; too many patients, too few staff
Kenneth, We went into the interior of this pyramid back in 1974. There was a statue of Chac Mool at the top altar. The guards shoved so many people into what is really a one-way staircase I about lost it for claustrophobia. It has since beenshut to the public. Anyway, it is pronounced Chi-CHEN (emphasis on CHEN) It-ZA (eemphasis on ZA.) thus Chichén Itzá. Enjoy the show.
The fact he admits he was using a Babylonian tablet, in his mind saying it took from the Jews and not the other way around. The fact we as western culture don't use the Hebrew calendar. The fact the Julian calendar needed correction several times to find the math of when to adjust our accounting of the date. That his god made everything but forgot to carry the one on celestial rotation calculations so we cannot make a simple time records due to the the wobble and shift of planetary rotation. This is special pleading with ball seeking goals, they go where he's aiming.
Yes, the lunar cycle is 29.5 days. But ancient civilizations approximated that to 28 days perhaps for ease of calculations, because they didn't have Casio calculators to punch in "29.5". The actual and accurate length of the lunar cycle has no bearing on whether ancient civilizations used a 7, 14 or 28 day cycles. Also, saying that lunar calendars are inferior because 29.5 days don't evenly divide into 7-day periods is weird because 365 days also don't evenly divide into 7-day periods (364 days do; these cycles were all approximations by civilations that did not have calculators, the number zero, or a place value system of numbers - all of which made modern calculations much easier).
The Mayans didn't use a 7 day week. They actually had a better system that more accurately represented the yearly cycle. We measure our weeks in 7 days which doesn't actually evenly equal a 365 day year, but the Mayans used astronomy to by following the passage the cycles of the sun, moon and stars and created three different calendars. They didn't really measure weeks, but had 18 months of 20 days and 1 month of 5 which amazingly comes out to 365, unlike the 7 day week. A 7 day week with 52 weeks makes 364 days. Doesn't quite equate to a full year.
The seven-day week originates from the calendar of the Babylonians, which in turn is based on a Sumerian calendar dated to 21st-century B.C. Seven days corresponds to the time it takes for a moon to transition between each phase: full, waning half, new and waxing half. Because the moon cycle is 29.53 days long, the Babylonians would insert one or two days into the final week of each month. Jewish tradition also observes a seven-day week. The book of Genesis (and hence the seven-day account of creation) was likely written around 500 B.C. during the Jewish exile to Babylon. Assyriologists such as Friedrich Delitzsch and Marcello Craveri have suggested that the Jews inherited the cycle of seven days from the Babylonian calendar.
He may as well be arguing something like "The bible talks about a 24 hour day exclusively, and the world adheres to a 24 hour day model as foretold! Therefore the bible is true!" Like...come on dude. grow up.
He was right about some things. Atlas Obscura's online article "Why Can't We Get Rid of the 7-Day Week?" gives a very interesting, comprehensive account of what we know and don't know about the 7-day week. Fine, but how does he go from there to "therefore God"? By the way, we could have had the Egyptian 10-day week or the Roman 8--day week, or if the Babylonians had been aware of Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto, a 10-day week. The bottom line seems to be that a lot of ancients thought 7 was a cool number. It kind of is. Even the Romans eventually came around. Alexander spread it as far as India, and from there it's logical that it spread to China.
This caller quoted Isaiah 66:23 when he spoke with Matt several months earlier as his Biblical source. It reads: “And it shall be from new moon to new moon and from sabbath to sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord. So it doesn't say anything about an exclusive 7 day claim at all. It also says everyone is going to bow down before the lord, which more 70% of the people on earth still don't do, let alone on a weekly basis (in fact less than 15% of the world population observes the Sabbath weekly). He's got another one of those "prophecies" where you have to re-imagine the most of what it says, paying close attention to ignore the part that has already miserably failed.
The initial thought I had was "Why should I care that there was a seven day cycle in the bible, the week being seven days long in no way supports your argument that you have an infallible point, or that a god exists."
I have a fundamental problem with the claim the 7-day-cycle is a "universally" applied calendar-feature: How is anybody sure that in the complete UNIVERSE every civilisation uses a 7 day week? Universally means literally all over the universe! A more reasonable claim is that the 7-day-week is implemented globally (meaning around the globe)
If you're correct about the Mayans not being on a 7 day cycle, does that not dispute your claim that all nations would abide by your 7 day cycle? You refuted yourself, smart guy
WOW 😟 that poor guy, I’m no longer a Christian but I think I’m gonna pray a special prayer for him tonight. A prayer not to a god but that logic & reason enter into his life.
The Bible has a 360 day year. The Romans via the Juliann calendes was adopted with a 365.25 year. The longest day in history was when it was adopted. 45 days were lost.
LeChef might also note that the 365 days of the year also do not divide evenly by seven. The quotient is 52.1428 weeks. We conveniently adjust the error with a leap year every four years.
24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case.
Coincidence?
I don't think so.
I started the whiskey diet. I've lost three days so far
@@garymiles484 7 days in a week, 7 fingers on my hand. Coincidence? I think not!
@@alext7074 lol you guys XD
We get 30 beers in a case. That's why we have happy hours!
Denis Leary said that in his "No Cure for Cancer" routine, love it
Lloyd is my kind of guy. A straightforward destroyer of nonsense. “A silly troll,” I love it.
Le Chef reminds me of W.C. Fields.
“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit." -- W.C. Fields
absolutely correct
That sums up theism and religion in general
So true
"Le Chef" only showed irrefutable evidence that arrogance travels side by side with ignorance waaaaaaaay too often.
Mostly all the time .........
How can you guys stay so calm when a caller doesn´t listen at all and just waits for his time to talk nonsense. I admire you.
Experience i assume. 💁♂️
LeChef is a Legend in his own mind.
The caller is a guy who previously identified himself as "Canadian Catholic,"
Actually he’s what we Brits call a twat.
@@MrRational59I don't think they're the same person
God's seven day week is riddled with heathen references...The Sun-day, Moon-day, Tiws-day, Wodens-day, Thors-day, Fria-day, Saturn-day. He could have tried harder with the branding.
Brilliant! 😅 That's very true
Nitpick, the week names aren't based on Germanic paganism. The names are based on Roman week names. The Latin names where then replaced with local names, in this case Germanic. But the system is Roman. Of course they're still pagan but the Germanic names themselves don't hint at the past as the system wasn't Germanic.
@@mormacil Irrelevant. The Romans were unlikely to be first to name weekdays.
@@petermirtitsch1235 Not sure how that's relevant, the weekday name system referenced *is* Roman in origin.
@@mormacil no, they're based on the Roman names in other languages (French, for example) but English owes more to the Norse and Germanic languages. The Romans saddled us with September, October, November, and December ...which of course are NOT the seventh through tenth months in our current calendar. And we long ago stopped using the Nones, the Ides, the Kalends...
LeChef, " I know people are desperate these days." Well he proves that. My research finds that the 7 day cycle is based on a 21 B.C. Sumerian calendar which corresponds to phases of the moon.
21 B.C. date is off-- as the start of the Concept was 4,000 years old.
But Jesus said . . . "Somebody grab a ladder and some plyers and get me off this fucking tree."
Dammit, sorry. Wrong book.
I think you mean 2100 BC.
@@davidh.503 I think @James Campbell meant 2100 BC.
@@rickcperkins I wait for their brains to catch up to their fingers... Always seem to have to wait a long while...
From Encyclopedia Britannica : Evidence indicates that the Jews borrowed the idea of the week from Mesopotamia, for the Sumerians and the Babylonians divided the year into weeks of seven days each, one of which they designated a day of recreation.
That's correct, but the 7 day week was developed to correspond with moon phases, 7 days is the length of time it takes to transition between each phase. And was long before the Yahweh character created earth lol
In which case, the 7 day week would predate the bible by about 4000 years.
I actually did a long English course on this. And yes, the Sumerians started this and each country adapted to their liking. For example, Mittwoch, mid-week in German.
As Lloyd said, even if the fact that Jews created that, how is that demonstrating that god exist? How does he know that the bible is proof of god?
It gave the lazy old god a day off because he couldn’t be arsed to work a full week
This guy needs to rewatch the Simpsons. They predicted a lot more than the Bible.
and/or South Park
His argument is infallible, but only when nobody is looking.😂
Or thinking.😝
@@barbiedahl or existing
@@thoughtsengineer 🤣😂🤣😂😉👍🏻
LeChef went from missionary to preacher, to finally Inquisitor. Why does theist always get angry when their illusions are challenged?
Because their god is the same way. Only shows up with it's time to genocide everyone.
Because when you think a “god” is giving you all thoughts you can insult anyone all you want and then say it’s “love”.
Because they have been told that to doubt is to suffer eternal torture. And they doubt all the time ( because their shit is doubtful 😅).
This anyone who says something that makes them doubt more seems like a personal attack.
They think “ this person wants me to be tortured.” If you honestly believed that you would likely also be angry.
This is one of the actual mental tortures that can be directly attributed to religion.
"What is your objection to Christianity?" "It's not true"
Fair point.
Lloyd, I thoroughly appreciated your outright laughing at the caller's claim of an "infallible" argument. It's an open and honest response to a outrageously ridiculous statement. I'm reminded of a complaint by a caller that atheists didn't emote enough. You just put the lie to that proposition. It'd be OK if all the hosts emoted a bit when faced with outrageously ridiculous statements.
Yeah but when we do we're unfairly proclaimed as mean bullies 🙄
So throwing on and maintaining a professional face is best. 💁♂️
@@guytheincognito4186 The theist manifesto is making unfair claims. Placating authoritarians doesn't have a history of pleasant outcomes.
Callers like that make for good entertainment. Perhaps he wasn’t trolling, as in he really believes his nonsense proves his God’s existence. Either way, you guys handled it well.
I can't remember his channel name here on TH-cam, but he keeps going on and on about this seven day cycle. If he is a troll, he's a very dedicated one.
@@almightyshippo1197 unfortunately the majority of religious people are unknowing trolls for the "cause". Blind indoctrination has a way of doing that.
Well he was a troll but he doesn’t realize that. Stupid people doesn’t know they are stupid.
I’m not convinced he’s a troll. I’m reminded of a quite: “What does it feel like to be wrong before you know you’re wrong?”
Ancient Israel did not have names for the days in a week except the sabbath day. Their months were based the lunar cycle of 30 days and their year was 360days long. The pagan names for the days no doubt came from ancient Babylon with its sex worship.
The Babylonian week was associated with the seven heavenly bodies; the Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus , and Saturn. Romans inherited the seven day week from Babylon. The emperor of Rome created the Catholic church that used the Babylonian week. Ancient Babylon is the mother of all the earths false religions today. An interesting point is the fish image that so many people display on their cars. It is in fact a fertility symbol of pagan origin that represents the female sex organ. The Ankh of the Egyptians, was a symbol of life, because it represents the feminine yoni in union with the masculine tau cross.” The Babylonians passed on to the Egyptians the cross which came from Semiramis, Nimrods mother and lover. When Nimrod died Semiramis erected the sacred pole used in sex worship with the cross beam to represent their sexual union. Christendom proudly displays a cross [the feminine yoni in union with the masculine tau cross] as the symbol of Christianity.
The Bible mentions a seven-day week. Lots of people followed the teachings of the Bible. We use a seven day week. That's a consequence, not a prediction.
Except there were seven day weeks before that. It's the consequence of using a lunar calendar.
It’s a coincidence for many. Purely forced religious indoctrination for the rest. Not a consequence.
@@petermirtitsch1235 It's both.
@@DrMakak the seven day week was in use well before the advent of Christianity.
@@petermirtitsch1235 I get it, but that's irrelevant. Even if it weren't, the sheer fact that it's proclaimed by the dominant religion makes the callers claim redundant and unimpressive
"A thing I believe happens to be true. Therefore everything I believe is true."
I love Lloyd’s effortless, surgical deflations
Kenneth's Jordon Peterson impression is SPOT ON!!!
"It's not a 7-day-cycle, it's a lunar cycle!" Oh sweetie...
You have to be a special kind of theist(or person in general)to think that this is even a valid argument.
He sounds like he's learned a lot of words but not their definitions. Then jammed his favorites together to spew a patchwork of b.s. he's clearly very proud of lol.
I guess when you're that low, you can still look down on people if you stand on your head...
I've heard worst
@@moragslothe6449 Like Jordan Peterson he surely loves to toss around word salad.
I believe the (current) PC term is "touched..." as in you have to be somewhat, well...touched to think it's remotely impressive
Ignorantly stupid isn't that special. I do get your point.
The caller might as well have done the sneeze apologetic: You said 'God Bless You' when I sneezed, therefore God exists!
There has been a caller who used an argument like that. He claimed that when ever anyone on the planet got hurt etc they would say "oh my God".
Not realizing that that is a Western phrase.
Lloyd's laughter is everything.
How the man made creation of the calendar by observing natural cycles proves a god is beyond me.
Also, speaking of people being thoroughly convinced of their absurd hypothesis being true I recommend looking up a small channel called Flat Earth Philosophy. I'm reluctant to give him more views but his absolute conviction and certainty is very similar to Le Chef's here.
These people really believe this shit and no matter how many facts, how much logic and reason you throw at them the cognitive dissonance kicks in and overpowers all. It is an interesting insight into the human psyche.
"I'm going push the like button on this video"
Here, I predicted the future.
now worship me
this caller is an example of why not to mix arrogance with ignorance.🤦🏿♂️
This is definitely my favorite host combination!
Also la Chef the current calendar doesn't perfectly divide by seven either hence the reason we have a leap year dummy.
The seven day week doesn't really influence this. That is caused by a solar year being roughly a quarter of a day longer than 365 days we normally approximate it as.
@@mads2357 problem is that there arent an exact number of days in a year, leasing to the necessity of a regular adjustment to stop seasons creeping
@@petermirtitsch1235 yes that is what i was trying to express.
And needing to skip a leap year once every 100 years or so. The movement of the earth is not exact at all
The seven-day week originates from the calendar of the Babylonians, which in turn is based on a Sumerian calendar dated to 21st-century B.C. Seven days corresponds to the time it takes for a moon to transition between each phase: full, waning half, new and waxing half.
Funny how the Jews were captives in Babylon and then adopted the 7 day week thereafter lol.
He knows the things both of you guys have said. He thinks it's all evidence for his claim.
You left out that it is also based upon the 7 wanders, sun, moon, and 5 planets.
Sumer/Babylonians had 7 day week well before the Hebrews
This is true, but their "argument" is NOT that the Bible was the first to use a 7-day week, it's that the Bible "predicted" that the 7-day week would become universal, and it's now universal, therefore Jesus.
@@puckerings He also claims that the Jews made the 7 day cycle in other calls
This guys thing is that Yahweh came up with the 7 day week
@@49perfectss Sure, but you should generally steelman any argument you're countering.
@@puckerings So the counter is that the Javanese currently use a five day cycle, so the seven day cycle isn't universal.
The claim also doesn't state when or how this will occur. Maybe the Javanese will change to 7 days but maybe some countries or all of Earth will switch at some later point in the future to 10 days, 6 days, 8 days... who knows! Steelmanning this claim would require "improving it" by adding extra info, of which the deluded idiot didn't think.
I too recall having convinced myself of something only to find out quite by accident that I was guilty of confirmation bias
it blows my mind how some people can be so wrong, yet so sure of themselves.
You heard it here, folks, a seven day week proves the existence of an almighty torturer in the sky.
[Edit:]
The year isn't a multiple of seven days long, and the leap year shows even more imperfection of any sort of god's timekeeping.
Love the JP impressions!
In ancient times, telling time by the Moon was the easiest and most accessible form of time-keeping. A lunar month is about 29 days long, so each lunar phase is therefore about 7 days. If you want to divide the lunar month into a whole number of days, a 7-day week is the simplest method. Is this really so hard to understand?
Only if you do not like thinking.................. LOL
why are the stupid so confident? you two did an awesome job and lloyd was hilarious.
Because they can’t recognize embarrassment.
He is educated in the field of applied fallacies
Matt has this nice analogy that he likes to bring out: "If I order a medium rare-steak and the waiter brings me a medium-rare steak, did I make a prophecy that came true?" LeChef is basically saying YES.
The Bible describes a seven day week, belief in the Bible and with it the seven day week spread through the western world and with advent of global trading throughout the rest of the world
And now he goes back and says "See, bible says seven day week, everyone's calendar says seven day week, therefore god!"
The Bible is not the origin of the 7 day week. It's based on the cycles of the Moon.
The Beatles prove Le Chef is wrong here, and "yes he knows it true."
The seven-day week...so accurate that we need to add an extra day every four years to keep the seasons properly aligned. There's some "perfect" divine mathematics for you.
This is so easy to refute.
The 7 day week predates Christianity. It is based on the lunar cycle of 28 days.
1/4 of that is 7 days.
"7-day cycle proves God."
"Does it prove the gods that the days were named after?"
The 7 day week originated with the Babylonians
Yea. But to him. That doesn't count. He goes into some BS that the Babylonians 7 day info we have is incorrect. Somehow he knows the Babylonians correct cycle.
@@dj_menyo839 Oh really! He must have thought that up recently because he didn't say that to me when I brought up the Sumerians and Babylonians to him.
The irony is that he cited Babylonian tablets as his source!!! 😂
Kenneth JP impression was absolutely fantastic!
My own objection to Christianity has evolved over the past few decades. Originally it could have been called political, in that I was reacting to the overreach of religion - especially in its authoritarian aspects - into areas of public life that affect us all, and which disproportionately affect minorities of all kinds.
In recent years my perspective has shifted towards a more psychological perspective. The political overreach of religion has become even more extreme in the meantime, but I see more definitively that it's built simply upon BAD REASONING. Its political arguments are based upon bad reasoning, and its supporters, without exception, draw upon bad reasoning in defense of the religion itself and its epistemology in particular.
The problem is by no means limited to Christian fundamentalism. Adherents of other religions apply all of the same bad reasoning in their arguments.
I think this is a remarkable discovery. Whether it's Christianity or Islam or Buddhism or some form of New Age spirituality, the defense of the belief system is invariably built on layer upon layer of fallacy. It's all driven by emotion, of course, not reason, and that's in one sense at the heart of the problem. Wishful or fearful thinking does not a sound epistemology make.
But I don't think that we can expect each other to stop having strong feelings. Let's have our feelings, but be prepared to examine them kindly but with a critical eye. We have to get better at critical thinking, at building rational rather than emotional arguments, and at detecting fallacies even in our own arguments. Nothing good comes of bad ideas based on bad reasoning, no matter how much it may soothe us.
Nice post and I would like to add that religions are tribal group identities. Members strongly identify with and are bonded to their group. Justifications for their instinctual emotions become a tangled web having nothing to do with reason or logic.
I'm sure others said the same, but several points:
1. As was mentioned toward the end, the Hebrews did not invent the 7-day week and evidence suggests it predates them and was used by the Sumerians and Babylonians, among others. It wasn't a new idea, even then. But there were a couple of people the Hebrews didn't get along with, like the Egyptians and Romans, who both used 10-day weeks. So taking a known idea that runs contrary to what your "enemies" used, shaking it at them in defiance, and going "someday you, too, will use THIS idea and not your own!" isn't surprising and seems like a fairly standard act of cultural defiance.
2. The 7-day week being used worldwide is also somewhat semantical. The Indonesian nation of Java, for example, uses a layered calendar system whereby they do mostly lay their calendars out in the 7-day week format *visually*, while simultaneously still using their traditional 5-day week, as well. So it's like: Sunday = JavaDay1, Monday = JavaDay2, Tuesday = JavaDay3, Wednesday = JavaDay 4, Thursday = JavaDay5, Friday = JavaDay1 (again), and Saturday = JavaDay 2 (again)...and so on.
There are several other places with similar set-ups, where they follow the global standard on one hand (because we live in an interconnected world and it is just easier), but also layer and tweak it with their own traditional beliefs, formats, and meaning, so you could quibble whether or not everyone is really "following" it or not.
3. Also...7 days is simply NOT that weird a prediction. Months were mostly based on lunar cycles originally. And you know what divides up into four 7-day periods real nicely? The lunar cycle, which came up near the end as well. And not only is the math close but the cycle itself lends itself to a 4-way split--New, Waxing, Full, Waning. It wasn't inevitable, but nor is it that shocking a lot of places would just naturally gravitate towards something similar to that.
4. Seven as a mystical number is prehistorically ancient. MANY cultures had beliefs, superstitions, and assertions about the number 7. Like the Greeks and Romans would often lump the sun and moon in with the 5 known planets as the 7 special objects in the sky. And those heavenly bodies were worshiped AS GODS by people the world over, like the Mesopotamians. Given how much of the calendar is dominated by religion, it would not be unfathomable that each of those moving heavenly bodies gets its own day.
5. It also seems a *tad* weird that the only--or at least "best"--prediction the Bible can make to sway the hearts and minds of people all over the world and convince them of the existence of a higher authority is..."someday, hundreds or maybe thousands of years from now, everyone in the world will finally kinda use 7-day weeks! (And what's more, for many people, those days shall be named in honor of false Norse and Roman deities and Paganistic nature worship practices)."
And that's it? They best you got? Really?
My objection to christianity is the same as my objection to any unproven nonsense.😂
Some unproven nonsense is relatively benign, but christianity is malignant, causing a much stronger objection
I object because of the corruption and damage done by the ignorant teachings. True or not, it’s trash
Sure, you know better. I'll vote for you so you can make the world a better place.
Isn’t this just the math of a year round trip around the sun?? All cultures that live on the same planet would come up with a similar math equations???
No matter the Christian denomination, they always forget, there were other civilizations in other parts of the world not known the writers of the books of the Bible, who had their own calendars and cycles, which were very accurate, like the Mayas -wrote this before Kenneth mentioned them in the video lol, that pyramid is a very accurate calendar - and who lived under those cycles until they were conquered by Catholic kings and forced into Catholic beliefs. As for "universal implications", the 7 day cycle almost works with our planet's rotation around the Sun -leap year and all - but it doesn't work for any other planet that doesn't rotate around its star at the same speed as ours does.
If he thinks this about the 7 day week then the names of the days being based on Norse mythology is going to blow his fucking mind.
Norse gods did not exist when the 7 day week was invented.
I love listening to Lloyd. He could read the Yellow Pages to us and it would sound fine. And he makes no allowances for fools on the phone.
*Star Trek* predicted iPads, therefore *Star Trek* is the One True Religion…
…his “argument” is *that* ridiculous.
So, he’s either a great example of the “Dunning-Kruger effect” or he’s a masochist who gets off on being laughed at.
Plus, he responds to questions like a kid who fell asleep in class, then suddenly snapped awake when the teacher called his name…
And flip top phones.
Cognitive Dissonance + Dunning-Kruger = le chef
I need to hear more of Kenneth's spot-on Petersen impersonation...
omfg that was good JP impersonation. I lost my metaphorical substrate of my ethos it was so good
I will make a prediction right now. In the future, people will divide the year into 12 months.
If I am correct, I must be god.
Ive already built a shrine in your name oh great and knowing norrvik
Leaving aside that the 7 day week is not a biblical invention, predating it by long periods of time, it doesn’t predict a seven day week at all. It’s followers imposed a seven day week. As Paulogia points out, a prediction is not a prediction of people are actively trying to make it occur.
Now, even assuming it were a prediction, it would have been a Jewish prediction and, therefore, if it were confirmatory, it would be confirmatory of Judaism, not Christianity.
Kenneth, your Jordan P was pure gold.
Le Chef: 7 days proves god....
Gordon Ramsey: Give me your jacket, big boy. You're done.
that jordan peterson impression was so spot on 😭
A train schedule predicts the future.
The lunar month is 29.5 days. There are four major "events" in that month: New, half, full, and half again. 29.5 divided by four is 7.3. That's why several cultures around the world had seven day weeks.
The Bible was written AFTER the middle east started using seven day weeks. It's not a prediction, it's a retcon.
We talked about how people can go through an angry atheist stage but in my experience a lot of religious people are angry like this too. Seems to me these two hosts are two of the happiest most laid-back people, and you gave me some ideas for how to calm people down when I'm trying to talk to them online. Why are Christians so mad? Just sit back and worship, that's all you have to do to literally live for an eternity in a literal golden mansion in the literal sky right? So why are you guys so mad 😡?
I honestly think it’s either 1) a genuine zeal for what they believe is the truth or 2) insecurities that they cannot shake that they very well could be wrong.
It can't be easy being a christian. Frustration that god doesn't show up and settle the matter. Fear of hell, if not personally then for the people you know who are damned. Guilt about having lustful thoughts. Weird sexual hangups. That constant nagging doubt that it's all made up. Bloody scientists constantly finding stuff that doesn't fit in with the damn book...
@@loki6626 yeah, your right thank you. I prayed everyday when I was about 8 years old for my favorite stuffed animal to come to life and be my friend. Had social anxiety. That's when I gave up believing. I was young but I remember that pain though. Intense. I can't imagine feeling that for thirty years.
Nostradamus is God everyone! I found god finally!!! 🎉
Edit: I am already in love with Lloyd!!! 😂
Oh my Spaghetti Monster!
I spoke with his minders at the institution and they assure me that they'll do their best to keep him away from the telephones...unfortunately there's only so much supervision they can guarantee during "free time" on his wing; too many patients, too few staff
As I listen to this, all I can think of is Jules. "Check out the big brain on le chef!"
Claiming that an argument is infallible is a self defeating claim. If you claim your argument has no flaws, that's an automatic flaw right there.
The Simpsons TV show makes accurate predictions on a regular basis. I guess we should live our lives based on it.
Kenneth,
We went into the interior of this pyramid back in 1974. There was a statue of Chac Mool at the top altar. The guards shoved so many people into what is really a one-way staircase I about lost it for claustrophobia. It has since beenshut to the public.
Anyway, it is pronounced Chi-CHEN (emphasis on CHEN) It-ZA (eemphasis on ZA.) thus Chichén Itzá.
Enjoy the show.
The fact he admits he was using a Babylonian tablet, in his mind saying it took from the Jews and not the other way around. The fact we as western culture don't use the Hebrew calendar. The fact the Julian calendar needed correction several times to find the math of when to adjust our accounting of the date. That his god made everything but forgot to carry the one on celestial rotation calculations so we cannot make a simple time records due to the the wobble and shift of planetary rotation. This is special pleading with ball seeking goals, they go where he's aiming.
My bowels are on a seven-day cycle, therefore I am God. Boom!
...and, I thought Lloyd and Kenneth handled it brilliantly. Cheers you guys.
Leep year is my defeater
364 days in a year. 7 days in a week. Divides perfectly creating 52 weeks a year. Divine creation! Prove to me that it's n......Shit, Leap Year....
Every four years a leap year, and every 28 years, retreat to your whisky cave for a day.
Le Chef would be a true joy to julienne. En vivo. Seriously.
Yes, the lunar cycle is 29.5 days. But ancient civilizations approximated that to 28 days perhaps for ease of calculations, because they didn't have Casio calculators to punch in "29.5". The actual and accurate length of the lunar cycle has no bearing on whether ancient civilizations used a 7, 14 or 28 day cycles. Also, saying that lunar calendars are inferior because 29.5 days don't evenly divide into 7-day periods is weird because 365 days also don't evenly divide into 7-day periods (364 days do; these cycles were all approximations by civilations that did not have calculators, the number zero, or a place value system of numbers - all of which made modern calculations much easier).
The text of the law predicts people wearing seat belts, lo and behold, people are wearing seat belts. Prophetic!
That was a scarily good Jordan Peterson impression.
Why did you have to remind me of captain word salad?
The Mayans didn't use a 7 day week. They actually had a better system that more accurately represented the yearly cycle. We measure our weeks in 7 days which doesn't actually evenly equal a 365 day year, but the Mayans used astronomy to by following the passage the cycles of the sun, moon and stars and created three different calendars. They didn't really measure weeks, but had 18 months of 20 days and 1 month of 5 which amazingly comes out to 365, unlike the 7 day week.
A 7 day week with 52 weeks makes 364 days. Doesn't quite equate to a full year.
The seven-day week originates from the calendar of the Babylonians, which in turn is based on a Sumerian calendar dated to 21st-century B.C. Seven days corresponds to the time it takes for a moon to transition between each phase: full, waning half, new and waxing half. Because the moon cycle is 29.53 days long, the Babylonians would insert one or two days into the final week of each month.
Jewish tradition also observes a seven-day week. The book of Genesis (and hence the seven-day account of creation) was likely written around 500 B.C. during the Jewish exile to Babylon. Assyriologists such as Friedrich Delitzsch and Marcello Craveri have suggested that the Jews inherited the cycle of seven days from the Babylonian calendar.
It's idiots like Lee Chef that drive me to drink. I tried my best during StopOctober, but now I'm in Can'tRememberNovember.
Many of my friends can't even remember to shave...
He may as well be arguing something like "The bible talks about a 24 hour day exclusively, and the world adheres to a 24 hour day model as foretold! Therefore the bible is true!" Like...come on dude. grow up.
I like Lloyd's reasoning
"My kung-fu is unbeatable!"
Le chef flambéd his argument.
He was right about some things. Atlas Obscura's online article "Why Can't We Get Rid of the 7-Day Week?" gives a very interesting, comprehensive account of what we know and don't know about the 7-day week. Fine, but how does he go from there to "therefore God"? By the way, we could have had the Egyptian 10-day week or the Roman 8--day week, or if the Babylonians had been aware of Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto, a 10-day week. The bottom line seems to be that a lot of ancients thought 7 was a cool number. It kind of is. Even the Romans eventually came around. Alexander spread it as far as India, and from there it's logical that it spread to China.
This caller quoted Isaiah 66:23 when he spoke with Matt several months earlier as his Biblical source. It reads: “And it shall be from new moon to new moon and from sabbath to sabbath, All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord. So it doesn't say anything about an exclusive 7 day claim at all. It also says everyone is going to bow down before the lord, which more 70% of the people on earth still don't do, let alone on a weekly basis (in fact less than 15% of the world population observes the Sabbath weekly). He's got another one of those "prophecies" where you have to re-imagine the most of what it says, paying close attention to ignore the part that has already miserably failed.
Oh good that was such good Jordan Peterson. More more
This was stupidly Awesome.
The initial thought I had was "Why should I care that there was a seven day cycle in the bible, the week being seven days long in no way supports your argument that you have an infallible point, or that a god exists."
So many sources provided in a very brief internet search has dismantled this dudes entire philosophy.
I have a fundamental problem with the claim the 7-day-cycle is a "universally" applied calendar-feature:
How is anybody sure that in the complete UNIVERSE every civilisation uses a 7 day week?
Universally means literally all over the universe!
A more reasonable claim is that the 7-day-week is implemented globally (meaning around the globe)
If you're correct about the Mayans not being on a 7 day cycle, does that not dispute your claim that all nations would abide by your 7 day cycle? You refuted yourself, smart guy
WOW 😟 that poor guy, I’m no longer a Christian but I think I’m gonna pray a special prayer for him tonight. A prayer not to a god but that logic & reason enter into his life.
The end of this show was hilarious.
Great Peterson at the end
The Bible has a 360 day year. The Romans via the Juliann calendes was adopted with a 365.25 year. The longest day in history was when it was adopted. 45 days were lost.
Thursday rings a ball
I love Lloyd
LeChef might also note that the 365 days of the year also do not divide evenly by seven. The quotient is 52.1428 weeks. We conveniently adjust the error with a leap year every four years.
I was really hoping that they would bring up all of the ridiculously more specific “predictions” that came true on the simpsons