The wolves warn of the catspaw. Nymeria hates Joffrey. Grey Wind hates the Freys and Jeyne's uncle. Summer and Shaggy warn of Theon's invasion. Ghost warns Jon of the mutiny and who will mutiny. If the Starks just listened to their wolves they all would be safe and sound.
Ghost was the eldest pup, his eyes were open and he was searching for food instead of staying with his dead mother like other siblings. Ghost also was the one first bonding with his human, Jon, when he realised all pups were rescued by Starks but he will be left behind.
I like to think Ghost also proves Jon was born before Robb. The color of the wolves sort of go in a gradient of lightest to darkest in accordance with the ages of their respective Stark.
Bit of a reach IMHO, but yes I imagine Jon is either a few weeks older or maybe even born the same day. Who knows? With Rob dead it doesn't seem important.
Don't forget Ghost eyes were already open and searching food instead of staying with his dead mother like other siblings, Ghost also knew other siblings were being saved and called to Jon, displaying bonding ability first among others.
If course Jon is older. Winterfell is the only place in the world where we hear "bastards grow faster than trueborn sons" obviously that was set up so nobody would be surprised when Jon ticked one of lifes boxes first.
John reflects in most of his later POV chapters how he can always sense Ghost EXCEPT when they are separated by the Wall. Definitely his warg abilities here. It’s almost as though John’s warg abilities were awakened as soon as Ghost opened his eyes, which seems to be the connection since GRRM had Bran take note of he being the only pup with their eyes open
That explains why Jon couldn’t sense the presence of the direwolves on the onwards journey. Ghost hadn’t opened his eyes then. He only opened it around the time they were headed back after the beheading.
@@pdderek probably because he’s the Three-eyed Raven. When Bran is beyond the Wall and Wargs into Summer he can sense Nymeria and Ghost. I take this as Bran’s powers growing stronger as he starts to become the next Three-eyed Raven.
How powerful is Jon's abilities is a pretty good question, the Varamyr Six-Skins prologue is definitely supposed to clue us in to what happens once a warg dies and as we know Jon's last word was "Ghost," (friggin show had to make him say "Olly" like the mouthbreathers they are) so it is interesting to sort of have this observation that Ghost and Jon had the bond practically immediately. While perusing some tinfoil I noticed some people were making connections with albinism in the ASOIAF-verse being linked to being potent in magic capabilities, and then there's the fact that Ghost kind of looks like a weirwood as well... Great video, as per usual. Looking forward as always to even more in the future.
The show had the Unsullied go to Naath at the end, so that most of them would die of the Butterfly Plague D&D must be forgiven, for they did not know what they do
@@alexandergangaware429 Gods be good... I had forgotten all about that. Makes me think that there's a crummy subreddit called r/naath where the users are complete D&D worshipers and think every aspect of the show was flawless, nothing could be improved whatsoever. I would use the whole "D&D just kinda forgot," line they used in the outside the episode, but I'm more inclined to believe they never bothered to know any better to begin with.
@@ncherieamour Remember the time that the high priestess of R'hlorr proclaimed Dany to be Azor Ahai reborn, but then she died as the Amethyst Empress Nissa Nissa to Jon's AA/Bloodstone Emperor thing? Like, how does that make sense? And Quaithe? What was the point of Quaithe? Last I remember, she was giving a guy body art so he could go to Valyria. Why? Was that guy Euron? Why did we never hear about her again, then? Was Euron too busy thinking about Cersei's butt?
Doesn’t Varamyr Six-Skins himself state that Jon is a very powerful Skinchanger? That says a lot given the fact that Varamyr (as his name suggests) can change into Six animals.
@@iwantsomecookies08 only because he’s the next Three Eyed Crow, if all of the Stark children were just Skinchangers then Jon would be the most powerful or atleast the one with most potential.
Im not sure u can really measure who is more powerful, it could manifest differently dye to 'training' and personality. Sansa appears the least powerful but her personality has her the obe least likelt to believe or act on it. Theyre all wargs but it appears to be bran and rickon are the only ones who get greendreams. And arya is strong enough to warg into nymeria despite their distance plus easily wargs another animal aswell. The ones who appear less powerful, robb and sansa are the two who are the most restricted and 'bound by rules' robb as the heir and then quickly a king and dansa being sansa.
Finally someone other than me asks how Jon "Heard" Ghost. George does describe the mother Direwolf as having maggots crawling on her. So she's probably been dead a day or two.
Telling that Theon's first reaction is "Gods," a diversion from the monotheistic/Manichian Ironborn religion, where there is only one god worth praising. He already wants to be a Stark, just like Lady Dustin
Taking the metaphor that Ghost and Jon had their eyes open while the rest were blind, isn’t Jon the only one of the Stark children the know of the real war, the only one that sees the big picture of ice and fire and the threat of the Others?
Bran saw the others before jon killed the first zombie wight at castle black. The crow showed bran the heart of winter in the coma dream he saw the others
It was Bran talking to Jon as the Three Eyed Crow. Note, Bran hears a rustle in the leaves. Something that Blood Raven says to Bran in the weirwood cave.
Your video definitely reinforces that John is who we think he is. He is Ned's only legitimate child. He found the Dire Wolves because they are the representation of his House, and because he can sense them; especially Ghost.
If that were the case then being legitimate doesn’t matter because magic doesn’t care what your last name is just like the Blackfyre (a bastard branch of the Targs) had prophetic dreams just like the targs.
@@billychops1280 in GOT magic actually does care about your name. It just doesn’t care the name you use, it cares your true name. For example Jon Snow is no one. But Jon Targaryen or Jon Stark holds power. Whether Jon calls himself by these names means nothing to magic, because magic knows regardless and imbues power in certain bloodlines.
Nah my guy certain bloodlines have magic in them but the last name doesn’t matter an example would be the warg king, his daughters were taken by the starks as wives and that’s how they got warging into the bloodline but the warg kings actual last name disappeared
Honestly for how the direwolf are directly on screen all the time. It's surprising that the community just ignore them and how much they can forshadow with thier behavior or show what the Character is truly thinking. Reminds me of my dogs and my cousins dogs where they love me and will attack someone if they mess with me. Jon and ghost is probably the best stark wolf relationship as they are always together but in the snow makes it easier to see ghost in his natural environment. Same with the stark symbolism as when you ignore reject or lose your wolf you are basically losing yourself as we see Sansa is not a stark in perosnality as she lost her wolf ealry while those that stay close to thiers keep to themselves better.
Sansa is definitely lost but she was NEVER a Stark in personality. If she were a Stark personality she wouldn't have betrayed Arya and wouldn't have lost Lady. Sansa doesn't stop being a Stark because she loses Lady, she loses Lady because she was never truly a Stark.
Love this style of videos. It’s not as “put together” as the older ones but much more entertaining. Like I’m sitting right with y’all at a bar talking Thrones.
I think you guys have the theory mostly correct. Brilliant work on the timeline! John = true born Stark. Other kids = Snow children. Perfectly accounts for ALL of Ned's strange thoughts and feelings. Have you guys heard Joe Magician's theory on the book's very first scene, and how the Others were specifically looking for John when they attacked the Royce kid? Not to bring up other channels... but you two seem to "get" his work very well, and I'd adore your opinion of that theory... Others have been specifically waiting for and looking for John, since the first scene. That would imply that the Others have their own prophecy going!
That video is on the money! What cracks me up is Joe Magician is hardcore RLJ, like, Alt RLJ, and that specific theory of his fits perfectly with Jon being a pure blooded Stark.
When I saw this video, initially, I thought it would be a video about the relationship between Jon and Ghost. Nonetheless, great video! I’m relatively new to the channel and ASOIAF, so me joining the pain and suffering of long-time fans waiting for WoW has been lessened a little since I found y’all. Maybe you could do a part 2 that focuses on Jon’s relationship with Ghost as a follow up to this video?
Ned's change of heart further reflects your theory that Jon is his legitimate son through Ashara Dayne. Until Jon speaks up, Ned is in the way of destroying them as six potential threats to his people and the North. A legitimate administrative thought, btw -- of six direwolves, surely two would survive to wreak havoc, as Nymeria does later in the South. But when Jon speaks up Ned feels his heart strings tug and then against all notions of good management he agrees with his so-called bastard son, lets his kids make pets of literal monsters from beyond the Wall!
I coiuld be wrong but i am pretty sure i have read or wwatched an interview or something from GRRM saying the scene of them finding the wolves was the very first scene/ idea in his head that got the entire series going
Nice vid as always. I just had a thought what if Jon sensed only Ghost (it’s his wolf and he already had his eyes opened) but they noticed the other puppies first because Ghost is white. And when they were riding off he still sensed Ghost there. Just a thought
I have a feeling that ghost is potentially a green sighted and enters Jon's mind so that he can find the puppies. love your theories and long live the king in the north, Jon Stark, the wolf of dawn
Didn't one skinchanger said that you can skinchange if you are unconfortable in your own skin? Maybe that's the reason why he was the only one who hears them. The two outcast of the family were him and arya.. mostly him. Bran became the most powerful after his fall. Rob started having wolf dreams after he's got all the pressure of being lord of winterfell. And sansa fit in pretty well from the beginning and her wolf died pretty early.
You said Robb picks up Summer, but actually no, Robb has a pup, presumably Greywind and then Jon is the one who picks up a pup and gives it for Bran to hold. I remember because it was such a cute big brother moment, it made me love the character right away. Matches your theory too, Jon hands Summer to Bran. Also, nice touch there, the other pups are still blind, but Ghost has his eyes open - Jon's abilities are active whilst his siblings' are still dormant. Robb does claim to have found the pups in the next book, maybe he came to believe it over time, that can happen
I would like to add Robb is a good lance. Lancing and other showy knightly pastimes are a southern thing. Not something they care about in the north. Which to me proves even more Robb is more Tully. Caitlyn is always thinking Robb has her father’s eyes and how much he looks like Edmure. He’s Stark enough for the Northern Lords to follow him. But his features and hobbies say southern in the same way Jon constantly screams Northern Stark.
MaryE!!! Sweetness!! Your voice is so soothing I rarely get through more than a session of your reading without nodding out to dreamland of dragons, maidens,and wolves!!! 😂 Gracious Guys!!
cool analysis! one question though. how does jon's magical connection with ghost disprove of r+l=j? lyanna was just as much of a stark as ned. jon is half stark regardless of who his parents are. why would her blood be less valuable/important/magical/stark-ish than neds?
Knowing George and his thought processes and philosophy of life, I'd guess it was not some 'god' but rather one of these sorcerors, lovecraftian entities, or just a magic blood tricks.
Forever in love with the chapter in which Ned calls Jon his son. "My sons". IDK how people just choose to ignore that. I still remember reading first 3 books, and then someone telling me about RLJ, and me being shocked how I missed everything about it and feeling dumb even though usually I could predict what would happen with everyone but Tyrion. I even got Tywin being involved in the Red wedding and Joffrey cancelation on the first read, but this I missed that was supposedly so obvious to everyone? Any way, sorry for the rant
@@matematicarka no, I just mean 99 out of 100 readers did not even ask the question WHO ARE JONS PARENTS ? because we were gobbling up the story so aggressively on first read. The internet let's you, you know, run a Google search and see if anyone else has thoughts on "Who are Jon snow's parents?" And bam. There it is. Sorry I now see the jist of your original statement...you're far too smart to have missed something, therefore it's not true. Lol k byeeeee smarty skirts
Don't apologise. ( rant ) the thing for me about jon and ned whatever the truth is biological or not he is jons father same with all the children . The same thing is true with tywin and the Lannisters. .
Mel mentions Jon's humility as well (sleeping in a normal room rather than in the King's tower) - its another form of arrogance. I am speaking in terms of Jon giving credit to Robb for finding the direwolf pups.
Maybe his magic is strong because his targaryan side too like he have magic on both sides, targaryan genes looks to be more recessive so maybe it made his stark side even more strong than normaly it would be when they marry other people.
Robb is a stronger lance than I am, but I’m the better sword, and Hullen says I sit a horse as well as anyone in the castle. I just don't see how John definitely beat him to the pups.
When you say Jon's story is centred around the Direwolf's/Stark so he can't be a dragon as well you also need to apply the same thing to Aegon's story. Aegon's story is centred around being a Dragon/Targeryn trying to reclaim the throne so he can't be a Stark as well. I still haven't settled completely on who Jon's parents are but the hints are defintely there for both theories.
That's kind of how foreshadowing works though? Jon has no references to dragons. He has many references to stark and dayne things. Jon is with us since book one and we are in his head. Baby Aegon has many references to dragons and Targs and some to Lyanna. Plus he's with us for only one book, and through another person's head always. And that's just for the subtext evidences
@@baneepe5773 If I were to settle that R+L=J than I would also believe Aegon is the mummers dragon. However as I said I haven't decided which theroy to stay with yet.
I don't know if this is something you guys would deem worthy of a podcast episode, but I'd love to hear your ideas on why Osha took Rickon to Skagos. Maybe I'm crazy but that decision has always seemed strange. Nice work as always😊.
You guys are the best! Love this and your old videos as well. Not into live streams but this……. To the point with both of you bringing up excellent points yet from different views. GRRM said that DandD joined him and had to tell him who Jons mother was. George never says if they got it right or wrong, he never says the show told it true to the books and he often goes on and on about the butterfly effect and one small change leading to many huge changes. You guys are on point in my mind and you both make me think and go back and read things again, I love a challenge for the brain.
John, is Targaryen’s who descendants of house Blackwood. Remember, Rhaegar, is half Targ, half Blackwood. So he is genetically more Northern than Eddards kids.
The Blackwoods left the North hundreds if not thousands of years ago and have been intermarrying with Andal families for a thousand years. Ned’s kids are the first non pure northern stark offspring we know of (of using your standard of measurement and counting the Blackwoods as pure northerners). Rhaegar is nowhere near as northern as the Starks
Every biological child of Ned received a wolf. Not nieces and nephews, wards, friends, Theon, etc., just his biological children. That tells us everything we need to know about Ned being his father.
Ghost is marked by the Old Gods. He looks like a weirwood tree, and those trees are associated with sight. If so, Ghost can "see clearer than most". If so, he is a really powerful direwolf. (correct me if I'm wrong pls) Also "open eyes" is another way to say someone is "updated" on what's happening around them , just as both Jon and by extension, Ghost knows about the fight against the Others and try to take action.
Not once, in the entire series, is Jon likened in any way to Raegar, nor does he have a single thought about a dragon. He's all Ned, Stark, Wolf, Wall, Winterfell, Last Hero, Ice Ice Ice Ice Ice damnit no fire at all just ICE.
It might be rather obvious if he did, no? Either way he's got Stark blood, so that's safe to show us. Dragon dreams would really stand out. Or playing a lute or something. ;) He also has no dreams of falling stars or milky swords or Dorne. Where are his Dayne traits, if that's the reasoning?
He also burned his hand badly when defeating the wight. Healing from that burn became part of his character. Jon is always thinking of his sword hand being damaged by fire.
I read somewhere the whole story is about Jon and Daenerys but I think it shifted to being all about the Starks since grrm original title for the final book was A Time For Wolves.
Do you think Cat knew in Lysa's secret coded letter to her that Jon's true parentage was revealed? I ask this because it was after she received the letter and quickly burned it, that she treated Jon worse after Bran's fall from the broken tower. But in regards to this podcast, I think the way Jon senses Ghost immediately, because it proves that he is Ned's only trueborn son.
"It's so weird that's his eyes are open! Why would his eyes be open first? He's def not the oldest dire wolf; not even a true born I bet. He must have gotten separated from another wolf pack. " - Ned (probably)
Jon being better at everything was definitely a testament to him being Lyanna’s son because she was better than Ned and Benjen, much like Arya was with Bran. And, “the best leaders know when to follow” even though he had amnesia when he first got to the Wall 😉
I know it's unpopular on this channel but I have to say it's still possible that r+l is true... As awesome as n+a would be there is evidence out there that might prove jon is a targ... Everytime a targ marries someone with darker features the firstborn of that union has dark features... Think of baelor breakspear looking dornish while his 3 younger brothers looks targaryen. Think of aegon v and his firstborn duncan with a blackwood wife, Duncan the small had dark features while his younger siblings had valyrian looks. And then there's Rhaegar and Elia who's firstborn rhaenys looked dornish yet her younger brother aegon looked valyrian like rhaegar... It's only reasonable to assume that if R+L=J was true then jon as the firstborn of that union would have his mother lyannas dark features like dark brown hair, dark grey eyes etc.
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand yes it definitely would be great and there is a lot of evidence for NAJ too and I have to admit I would love to see a reunion with Jon and lemore (ashara) so I'm mostly hoping NAJ is true and not RLJ
@@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195 Well, as the person I heard this from said, he seemed to have a rather idealistic view of the Watch and surely, being at Winterfell, someone had to have mentioned what they were really like. Yet he somehow managed not to hear it.
It could have been Bran. Bran just heard the leaves. How do you hear the leaves rustling over the trotting horses? 3 eyed raven Bran could have called to Jon. Just like Bran did with Ned in the God's Wood at Winterfell, where Ned perks up because he thinks he heard something.
just curious. when he says “it says on every page on the app that jon found the wolves” what app is he referring to? i’m new here. thanks for your help.
Any idea's on how the Starks of old got hold of their Direwolves? did they "find" them too or did the Wolf just appear when needed? or were they bred? or a wolf hunt beyond the wall?
If jon is a Targaryen that means he is lyanas son .. who is a stark. Why is it weird if the warg blood passed from his mother? Like why does rhaegar being his father mean his stark mother's traits are negated?
I hate to just "blame it on Bloodraven," but it is an albino dog... it wouldn't take much to "whisper" to Jon in some way. Then again, maybe Jon just heard some rustling in the debris of the bank. Either way, I fail to see how Jon finding the wolves would make him less likely to be Lyanna's son rather than Ned's. If one really wanted to argue the other way one could point out the fiery eyes of Jon's wolf, in fact. Mainly, I don't buy N+A=J it because D&D couldn't write their way out of a wet paper bag. The big plot points had to be given to them by GRRM. Then they were too lazy to do it right. Stuff that really makes no sense like Jon going back North beyond the non-existent Wall at the start of winter is a clue, in my mind, that Jon will have to go there but for an actual reason. Other show nonsense is likely the result of combining characters like Ramsay and Harry the Heir, or Dany and (f)Aegon.
You really believe the story about d&d though? That screams scripted publicity to me... or they said N+A=J because Cersie literally says that to Ned and he doesn't deny it, which is very straightforward and simple enough. Either way it doesn't matter because GRRM will never finish his life's work
@@AJ0223 Indeed, Ned doesn't deny it to Cersei. Because after 15 years of silence on the subject we should expect him to clear it all up in book one because Cersei insults him with mistaken info? How many shits do you give when someone you don't respect in the first place accuses you of things you didn't do while displaying their ignorance about the details your past? I wouldn't think Ned's silence to Cersei on the subject requires any explanation, but there it is anyway. Also, I have no idea what "story about d&d" you're referring to. There are many reasons I don't buy that N+A=J, but the idea that the showrunners would alter that element when it didn't turn out to be relevant beyond helping Dany go crazy and Varys getting killed is a significant one. Otherwise they could just have a little flashback with Bran showing Ned and Ashara with baby Jon and call it good. No additional scenes needed. D&D obviously wanted nothing more than to finish the show as quickly as possible so they could fuck off to go ruin a Star Wars trilogy. That's even easier to do if Jon's parentage isn't R+L. Not to mention, George was involved w/ the show through Season 4 and laid absolutely zero groundwork for N+A=J. No Daynes; neither Darkstar nor Ned Dayne nor any other save a flashback with Arthur (with two swords instead of a pale two-hander). Was Dawn even *mentioned* on the show outside of Blu-ray extras like 'Histories and Lore?' With just these facts alone, we have to believe George, who wanted 12+ seasons and a true-to-the-books show for some reason always planned to have a completely different parentage and outcome for Jon on the show? Or that George "kinda forgot about" Dawn and house Daynes' living members when it came to the show? I get it. People are *very* attached to their pet theories about Jon's parentage and a hint as big as "it's R+L in the show" won't change their minds, nor any amount of evidence from the books. Instead they'll work backwards from their conclusion and find evidence (however flimsy) to fit it. Also, I wholeheartedly agree with you about the books never being finished. This fat 70 y/o thinks he'll live to 100 apparently and therefore can dick around for another decade with prequel shows no one is excited for after the debacle of D&D's version of his magnum opus. What he'll really get is a bunch of fan fiction versions of book 7 (and maybe 6 too if he can't even manage to finish that). Or in the near future they'll make AI that can analyze and imitate any author and an AI GRRM will finish it instead. Sorry for the long reply.
@@Genarii I just want to make it clear I dont care about any of this I didn't read a single word of that I think this is all a waste of time that I find mildly entertaining enough to listen to as background noise mostly when driving. I think George is a sad bitter creep and his entire life's work is ultimately garbage so have fun being fake and gay bud
@@AJ0223 So you read and reply to thread's on a channel dedicated to a topic you don't care about? I'm not sure what "fake and gay" is supposed to mean and I'm sorry to hear that you're too lazy to read. You sound rather upset with GRRM so it sounds more like you care too much.
Playing devil's advocate here but if we are looking for symbolism here are a few 1 John's last name is snow because bastards in the north are named snow but no matter who his parents are all signs point to him being born in dorne therefore it should be sand not the white substance known as snow. 2 his wolf is white with red eyes ( red a color associated with dragons btw )3 his sword is whiteclaw. Why so many associations to white the color of many targaryens hair?
His wolf looks like a weirwood. Bloodraven was born in kings landing and has the surname Rivers so I don’t think the location of birth has anything to do with the bastard names. And his sword is called longclaw
Weirwood is another name for “heart tree”. This is curious because two hearts beating as one is found later in the series. Jon has been intuiting the dire wolves with his heart.
I have a mostly unrelated comment. But I was listening to the world book today about house Baratheon. Orys was a rumored half brother of aegon. But as far as I know, neither he nor any of his descendents have been dragon riders. So I assume the rumors false. If RLJ is to be believed: Jon Snow is also a dark haired rumored half brother to an Aegon Targaryen who has next to zero affinity with dragons. Maybe it's a subtle hint that RLJ is false. Maybe it's nothing. Just food for thought.
I'd really want to see a video of you guys examining the theory that Tyrion is a Targaryen. It makes more sense and would be a nail in the R+L=J theory. Tyrion dreams of dragons but Jon doesn't? All Jon ever dreams about are the cripts of Winterfell and being the Lord of Winterfell. Also Tyrion being a Targaryen is the reason Tywin is so he'll bent on making sure Tyrion never inherits Casterly Rock. Tywin never acknowledges Tyrion as his heir despite Jaime being in the Kingsguard and even Tyrion says Tywin treats him like a bastard. Tywin was willing to let Tyrion take the black just to make sure Tyrion never becomes Lord of Casterly Rock.
I wonder if Cersei, Jaime, and Tyrion are all Targaryens. Tywin might be infertile and in denial. Maybe Joanna was really interested in Aerys, Joanna and Aerys were having an affair, and Aerys' jokes about prima nocta were clues Martin put in (?)
@@alexmarkadonis7179 Tywin seems clueless about such things. For instance he appears not to know about Jaime and Cersei, yet Kevan Lannister does. However, I do think Jaime and Cersei are Lannisters. They have the Lannister look and Jaime is very much Tywin's son despite what Lady Genna said. When Tywin dies, Jaime gives Cersei very good counsel on how to govern the realm. Jaime even deals with the Riverlords very strategically with an astute political and military mind. So I genuinely think Jaime and Cersei are Lannisters because they even have the green Lannister eyes and golden hair. As for Tyrion, he has mismatched eyes, one green and one black with hair so blonde it looked white (Targaryen hair). Also, Tyrion was said to be born with a tail, think back to Maegor the cruel and the deformed monstrosities his wives used to birth.
@@mwirigi5026 fair points, but I think genius and madness often go hand in hand. The incestuous relationship between Jaime and Cersei might make more sense were they Targaryens. Were Tywin impotent too, his hatred of whores and distaste for Tyrion's activities might make more sense; he hates sex because he cannot always get it up and he envies Tyrion's ability to have sex. The better twist would be that Jaime and Cersei are Targaryens but Tyrion is a Lannister.
@@alexmarkadonis7179 The incestuous relationship is a good point. I have no argument against it. As for the impotence and hatred for whores, wasn't Tywin found with Shae the night he died? I don't think Tywin hates whores, I just think he hates whoring being public like Tyrion does it. Reminds him of his father and the mistress who he made walk Lannisport naked.
Would this also mean that Jon indirectly saved Bran's life? Because I don't think the direwolves being there or not would have impacted anything leading to Bran's fall....but if he hadn't convinced Ned to let the wolves come back to Winterfell, Summer wouldn't have been there to attack the catspaw who was sent to kill Bran, and while Catelyn could hold him off for a bit, it likely wouldn't have been long enough to keep him from killing her and Bran.
I loved Jon and Daenerys paralleling journeys in the books and show. I know there will be a final battle between ice and fire so sadly Jon will kill Daenerys in the books too.
Awesome episode guys! My only dig is that I think you overlooked one thing when diagnosing Jon giving Robb credit for finding the Direwolves. Put yourself back into your 10 year old body for a second. You and your Brother find puppies. Your Dad is largely a hardass, but he cool. Your Mom however, is a BIIIIIIIIIIIIITCH to your Brother. Always. Won't even let him sit at the dinner table, Harry Potter Under The Stairs, abusive type shit. Now, you and your Brother DEFINITELY want to keep puppies. Do you tell your Mom that You, the favorite, found the puppies, or your Brother, the literal bastard son? I can tell you 1000% me and my nieces are playing this shit however we have to so that we keep the puppies.
We forgot two things can be true at the same time. Because of his potential parentage he is both Wolf and Dragon and because he is both he is also automatically more magically more powerful then them all the power of the wolf and dragon combined his song will be the Sonh of Ice and Fire!
I think Blood Raven has a lot to do with Ghost and helps Jon along the way with Ghost. So we still don’t know who Rob listed as his heir. This makes me wonder if Ned did not tell Rob and Rob did list Jon as his heir. I think the oldest Stark or the Stark left behind at Winterfell was told a lot more than others. If the Stark at Winterfell doesn’t know then the crypts and history doesn’t make sense. Jon is the oldest and he sensed them.
Are y’all forgetting about bloodraven? We know through Bran that they are able to interact with people through the weirwood network. So him hearing something on the wind could have easily been Bloodraven giving Jon a sign. Also there are signs that bloodraven has been basically watching over every single move that Jon has made. Be it through ghost or mormonts raven. Also I don’t think it’s a coincidence that bloodraven is albino and so is ghost.
The wolves warn of the catspaw. Nymeria hates Joffrey. Grey Wind hates the Freys and Jeyne's uncle. Summer and Shaggy warn of Theon's invasion. Ghost warns Jon of the mutiny and who will mutiny.
If the Starks just listened to their wolves they all would be safe and sound.
Its like the wolves are psychic or something, or something, or SOMETHING
Lady hated none and was slaughtered
@@jaipandey7142 Lady lacked a bond with her Stark, and it's the owner who is forewarned of their demise, not the wolf of it's own.
Is mulley part of jons stabbing?
Lady was ended by Ned. She would not defend herself from the Lord of winterfell
Ghost was the eldest pup, his eyes were open and he was searching for food instead of staying with his dead mother like other siblings. Ghost also was the one first bonding with his human, Jon, when he realised all pups were rescued by Starks but he will be left behind.
I like to think Ghost also proves Jon was born before Robb. The color of the wolves sort of go in a gradient of lightest to darkest in accordance with the ages of their respective Stark.
An observation I have not heard before!
thats such a great point!
Bit of a reach IMHO, but yes I imagine Jon is either a few weeks older or maybe even born the same day. Who knows? With Rob dead it doesn't seem important.
Don't forget Ghost eyes were already open and searching food instead of staying with his dead mother like other siblings, Ghost also knew other siblings were being saved and called to Jon, displaying bonding ability first among others.
If course Jon is older.
Winterfell is the only place in the world where we hear "bastards grow faster than trueborn sons" obviously that was set up so nobody would be surprised when Jon ticked one of lifes boxes first.
"He must have crawled away from the OTHERS"
It's interesting that Ghost has no voice; and Jon gets no voice as a Stark.
John reflects in most of his later POV chapters how he can always sense Ghost EXCEPT when they are separated by the Wall. Definitely his warg abilities here. It’s almost as though John’s warg abilities were awakened as soon as Ghost opened his eyes, which seems to be the connection since GRRM had Bran take note of he being the only pup with their eyes open
That explains why Jon couldn’t sense the presence of the direwolves on the onwards journey. Ghost hadn’t opened his eyes then. He only opened it around the time they were headed back after the beheading.
So why does Brendan Rivers have powers north and south of the wall while everyone else...doesn't...?
@@pdderek I thought of that too but there is a simple explanation. Weirwood roots go under the wall.
@@pdderek probably because he’s the Three-eyed Raven. When Bran is beyond the Wall and Wargs into Summer he can sense Nymeria and Ghost. I take this as Bran’s powers growing stronger as he starts to become the next Three-eyed Raven.
Great thoughts as always. The theory of Jon hearing Ghost in his head is one of my favorites.
How powerful is Jon's abilities is a pretty good question, the Varamyr Six-Skins prologue is definitely supposed to clue us in to what happens once a warg dies and as we know Jon's last word was "Ghost," (friggin show had to make him say "Olly" like the mouthbreathers they are) so it is interesting to sort of have this observation that Ghost and Jon had the bond practically immediately.
While perusing some tinfoil I noticed some people were making connections with albinism in the ASOIAF-verse being linked to being potent in magic capabilities, and then there's the fact that Ghost kind of looks like a weirwood as well...
Great video, as per usual. Looking forward as always to even more in the future.
The show had the Unsullied go to Naath at the end, so that most of them would die of the Butterfly Plague
D&D must be forgiven, for they did not know what they do
@@alexandergangaware429 Gods be good... I had forgotten all about that. Makes me think that there's a crummy subreddit called r/naath where the users are complete D&D worshipers and think every aspect of the show was flawless, nothing could be improved whatsoever.
I would use the whole "D&D just kinda forgot," line they used in the outside the episode, but I'm more inclined to believe they never bothered to know any better to begin with.
😂
@@ncherieamour Remember the time that the high priestess of R'hlorr proclaimed Dany to be Azor Ahai reborn, but then she died as the Amethyst Empress Nissa Nissa to Jon's AA/Bloodstone Emperor thing? Like, how does that make sense?
And Quaithe? What was the point of Quaithe? Last I remember, she was giving a guy body art so he could go to Valyria. Why? Was that guy Euron? Why did we never hear about her again, then? Was Euron too busy thinking about Cersei's butt?
Doesn’t Varamyr Six-Skins himself state that Jon is a very powerful Skinchanger? That says a lot given the fact that Varamyr (as his name suggests) can change into Six animals.
Jon being obsessed what is meant to be his older brother’s. Like Ned always thinking his life should’ve been Brandon’s. Like Father, like Son
Spot on, Jon is obviously the most magically powerful Stark child. And that’s saying a lot considering how powerful his siblings are.
All the Stark children have powers to one degree or another. Except Sansa. Sansa is also the most Tully of the children.
Bran is 100% the most magically powerful stark
@@iwantsomecookies08 only because he’s the next Three Eyed Crow, if all of the Stark children were just Skinchangers then Jon would be the most powerful or atleast the one with most potential.
Im not sure u can really measure who is more powerful, it could manifest differently dye to 'training' and personality. Sansa appears the least powerful but her personality has her the obe least likelt to believe or act on it. Theyre all wargs but it appears to be bran and rickon are the only ones who get greendreams. And arya is strong enough to warg into nymeria despite their distance plus easily wargs another animal aswell.
The ones who appear less powerful, robb and sansa are the two who are the most restricted and 'bound by rules' robb as the heir and then quickly a king and dansa being sansa.
@@miche6563 Great points! 👍
Finally someone other than me asks how Jon "Heard" Ghost.
George does describe the mother Direwolf as having maggots crawling on her. So she's probably been dead a day or two.
Telling that Theon's first reaction is "Gods," a diversion from the monotheistic/Manichian Ironborn religion, where there is only one god worth praising. He already wants to be a Stark, just like Lady Dustin
Taking the metaphor that Ghost and Jon had their eyes open while the rest were blind, isn’t Jon the only one of the Stark children the know of the real war, the only one that sees the big picture of ice and fire and the threat of the Others?
Did u forgot about the cripple who would be king lol
@@georgejohnson7013 yeah I did, but Jon does learn about it first it just seemed like another point for the topic
Bran saw the others before jon killed the first zombie wight at castle black. The crow showed bran the heart of winter in the coma dream he saw the others
I like the idea of Ghost warging Jon. It reminds me of that time at the Wall when he started thinking about tearing into bloody pieces of meat.
It was Bran talking to Jon as the Three Eyed Crow. Note, Bran hears a rustle in the leaves. Something that Blood Raven says to Bran in the weirwood cave.
I agree with this too.
Your video definitely reinforces that John is who we think he is. He is Ned's only legitimate child. He found the Dire Wolves because they are the representation of his House, and because he can sense them; especially Ghost.
If that were the case then being legitimate doesn’t matter because magic doesn’t care what your last name is just like the Blackfyre (a bastard branch of the Targs) had prophetic dreams just like the targs.
N+A=J
The Wolf's Den was established by King Jon Stark. Just saying
@@billychops1280 in GOT magic actually does care about your name. It just doesn’t care the name you use, it cares your true name. For example Jon Snow is no one. But Jon Targaryen or Jon Stark holds power. Whether Jon calls himself by these names means nothing to magic, because magic knows regardless and imbues power in certain bloodlines.
Nah my guy certain bloodlines have magic in them but the last name doesn’t matter an example would be the warg king, his daughters were taken by the starks as wives and that’s how they got warging into the bloodline but the warg kings actual last name disappeared
Really? Who is the father to all the other starks then?
Bran talks about the wind, so I would guess the thing Jon heard were the old gods
Happy monday Greenhanders
Honestly for how the direwolf are directly on screen all the time. It's surprising that the community just ignore them and how much they can forshadow with thier behavior or show what the Character is truly thinking. Reminds me of my dogs and my cousins dogs where they love me and will attack someone if they mess with me.
Jon and ghost is probably the best stark wolf relationship as they are always together but in the snow makes it easier to see ghost in his natural environment.
Same with the stark symbolism as when you ignore reject or lose your wolf you are basically losing yourself as we see Sansa is not a stark in perosnality as she lost her wolf ealry while those that stay close to thiers keep to themselves better.
Sansa is definitely lost but she was NEVER a Stark in personality. If she were a Stark personality she wouldn't have betrayed Arya and wouldn't have lost Lady. Sansa doesn't stop being a Stark because she loses Lady, she loses Lady because she was never truly a Stark.
@@BurkeanMama honestly I agree but I really wish George kept with his original idea as Sansa really ruins things and is somehow still alive
Nice catch. They did just leave a literal human sacrifice to the Old Gods on a Wheirwood stump. Maybe this strengthened Jon's skin-changing ability.
Love this style of videos. It’s not as “put together” as the older ones but much more entertaining. Like I’m sitting right with y’all at a bar talking Thrones.
Jon is just as much Stark as the other kids even if he is half Targaryen
exactly idk what this video is getting at
they’re also completely ignoring the fact that ghost is white with red eyes which seems symbolic of jon being targaryen
Love this one
Your understanding of his writing blows my mind !!
I think you guys have the theory mostly correct.
Brilliant work on the timeline!
John = true born Stark. Other kids = Snow children.
Perfectly accounts for ALL of Ned's strange thoughts and feelings.
Have you guys heard Joe Magician's theory on the book's very first scene, and how the Others were specifically looking for John when they attacked the Royce kid?
Not to bring up other channels... but you two seem to "get" his work very well, and I'd adore your opinion of that theory... Others have been specifically waiting for and looking for John, since the first scene.
That would imply that the Others have their own prophecy going!
That video is on the money! What cracks me up is Joe Magician is hardcore RLJ, like, Alt RLJ, and that specific theory of his fits perfectly with Jon being a pure blooded Stark.
When I saw this video, initially, I thought it would be a video about the relationship between Jon and Ghost. Nonetheless, great video! I’m relatively new to the channel and ASOIAF, so me joining the pain and suffering of long-time fans waiting for WoW has been lessened a little since I found y’all. Maybe you could do a part 2 that focuses on Jon’s relationship with Ghost as a follow up to this video?
Welcome to the wolfs den
Ned calls Jon his son. What mischief have my son's gotten into.
Ned's change of heart further reflects your theory that Jon is his legitimate son through Ashara Dayne. Until Jon speaks up, Ned is in the way of destroying them as six potential threats to his people and the North. A legitimate administrative thought, btw -- of six direwolves, surely two would survive to wreak havoc, as Nymeria does later in the South. But when Jon speaks up Ned feels his heart strings tug and then against all notions of good management he agrees with his so-called bastard son, lets his kids make pets of literal monsters from beyond the Wall!
As always, great podcast. Seven blessings from Greece!
I really like this new video format you two are doing; short discussions on a specific topic.
I coiuld be wrong but i am pretty sure i have read or wwatched an interview or something from GRRM saying the scene of them finding the wolves was the very first scene/ idea in his head that got the entire series going
U r right
Nice vid as always. I just had a thought what if Jon sensed only Ghost (it’s his wolf and he already had his eyes opened) but they noticed the other puppies first because Ghost is white. And when they were riding off he still sensed Ghost there. Just a thought
I honestly looooove these new podcast videos! They feel scripted but not scripted while sticking to a certain topic! 10/10
I have a feeling that ghost is potentially a green sighted and enters Jon's mind so that he can find the puppies.
love your theories and long live the king in the north, Jon Stark, the wolf of dawn
Another amazing one guys, really enjoyed this one. Make a video and add this to the playlist it really belongs there.
Didn't one skinchanger said that you can skinchange if you are unconfortable in your own skin? Maybe that's the reason why he was the only one who hears them. The two outcast of the family were him and arya.. mostly him. Bran became the most powerful after his fall. Rob started having wolf dreams after he's got all the pressure of being lord of winterfell. And sansa fit in pretty well from the beginning and her wolf died pretty early.
Monday used to suck! No more! Lol...cheers guys!
IKR! I wake up on Monday and think what podcast are we getting today?
Let’s take a moment for the badass mother direwolves who made these awesome children and fighting for them lol
What happened to actual videos? Everything is now either a podcast or a live stream.
You said Robb picks up Summer, but actually no, Robb has a pup, presumably Greywind and then Jon is the one who picks up a pup and gives it for Bran to hold.
I remember because it was such a cute big brother moment, it made me love the character right away.
Matches your theory too, Jon hands Summer to Bran.
Also, nice touch there, the other pups are still blind, but Ghost has his eyes open - Jon's abilities are active whilst his siblings' are still dormant.
Robb does claim to have found the pups in the next book, maybe he came to believe it over time, that can happen
Jon is a Stark either way. This doesn't refute R+L, IMO.
I would like to add Robb is a good lance. Lancing and other showy knightly pastimes are a southern thing. Not something they care about in the north. Which to me proves even more Robb is more Tully. Caitlyn is always thinking Robb has her father’s eyes and how much he looks like Edmure. He’s Stark enough for the Northern Lords to follow him. But his features and hobbies say southern in the same way Jon constantly screams Northern Stark.
And his eyes were open and the others not refer to ghost but also to jon third eye maybe
MaryE!!! Sweetness!! Your voice is so soothing I rarely get through more than a session of your reading without nodding out to dreamland of dragons, maidens,and wolves!!! 😂 Gracious Guys!!
cool analysis! one question though. how does jon's magical connection with ghost disprove of r+l=j? lyanna was just as much of a stark as ned. jon is half stark regardless of who his parents are. why would her blood be less valuable/important/magical/stark-ish than neds?
Knowing George and his thought processes and philosophy of life, I'd guess it was not some 'god' but rather one of these sorcerors, lovecraftian entities, or just a magic blood tricks.
Forever in love with the chapter in which Ned calls Jon his son. "My sons". IDK how people just choose to ignore that. I still remember reading first 3 books, and then someone telling me about RLJ, and me being shocked how I missed everything about it and feeling dumb even though usually I could predict what would happen with everyone but Tyrion. I even got Tywin being involved in the Red wedding and Joffrey cancelation on the first read, but this I missed that was supposedly so obvious to everyone?
Any way, sorry for the rant
Everyone missed it til the internet ;)
@@pdderek How did it get on the internet then? Everyone missed it till the internet cause the internet gaslights you into believing it's true...
@@matematicarka no, I just mean 99 out of 100 readers did not even ask the question WHO ARE JONS PARENTS ? because we were gobbling up the story so aggressively on first read.
The internet let's you, you know, run a Google search and see if anyone else has thoughts on "Who are Jon snow's parents?"
And bam. There it is.
Sorry I now see the jist of your original statement...you're far too smart to have missed something, therefore it's not true.
Lol k byeeeee smarty skirts
@@pdderek k bye
Don't apologise. ( rant ) the thing for me about jon and ned whatever the truth is biological or not he is jons father same with all the children . The same thing is true with tywin and the Lannisters. .
Mel mentions Jon's humility as well (sleeping in a normal room rather than in the King's tower) - its another form of arrogance. I am speaking in terms of Jon giving credit to Robb for finding the direwolf pups.
How is that arrogance?
That is not Jon being arrogant. That is him being humble and polite
Devils advocate, maybe Jon heard the pup moving in the snow, maybe Ghost made a sound moving as opposed to making the sound himself
a white wolf - a wolf cover in snow
Its great to theorize since we will never get the books
U r such a killjoy u know that? It would be nice if u keep ur pessimism yourself stranger
This is magnificent!!!! Thank you!
Maybe his magic is strong because his targaryan side too like he have magic on both sides, targaryan genes looks to be more recessive so maybe it made his stark side even more strong than normaly it would be when they marry other people.
Robb is a stronger lance than I am, but I’m the better sword, and Hullen says I sit a horse as well as anyone in the castle. I just don't see how John definitely beat him to the pups.
When you say Jon's story is centred around the Direwolf's/Stark so he can't be a dragon as well you also need to apply the same thing to Aegon's story. Aegon's story is centred around being a Dragon/Targeryn trying to reclaim the throne so he can't be a Stark as well. I still haven't settled completely on who Jon's parents are but the hints are defintely there for both theories.
That's kind of how foreshadowing works though? Jon has no references to dragons. He has many references to stark and dayne things. Jon is with us since book one and we are in his head. Baby Aegon has many references to dragons and Targs and some to Lyanna. Plus he's with us for only one book, and through another person's head always. And that's just for the subtext evidences
you guys always seem to forget about the mummers dragon. The fake Targeryn , he pushes it .Aegon is the mummers dragon and will die by the dragons.
@@baneepe5773 If I were to settle that R+L=J than I would also believe Aegon is the mummers dragon. However as I said I haven't decided which theroy to stay with yet.
@@baneepe5773 Dany being the mumer's dragon makes more sense
@@matematicarka omg, lol really so Quaithe is gonna warn Dani of her self?
I don't know if this is something you guys would deem worthy of a podcast episode, but I'd love to hear your ideas on why Osha took Rickon to Skagos. Maybe I'm crazy but that decision has always seemed strange. Nice work as always😊.
Me too! I've wondered that many times.
@@BurkeanMama I've wondered if Osha was a member of one of the three prominent families in Skagos, so she knew she'd be safe there.
@@ashleyofnaath I've thought she must have some contacts in Skagos. Either that or she just took a boat to wherever it would take her.
Jon - Father of Dire Wolves
That picture for the podcast is cute as Heck
You guys are the best! Love this and your old videos as well. Not into live streams but this……. To the point with both of you bringing up excellent points yet from different views. GRRM said that DandD joined him and had to tell him who Jons mother was. George never says if they got it right or wrong, he never says the show told it true to the books and he often goes on and on about the butterfly effect and one small change leading to many huge changes. You guys are on point in my mind and you both make me think and go back and read things again, I love a challenge for the brain.
Ghost having his eyes open before his siblings did might be symbolism for how Jon's warg powers were there earlier than his half-siblings.
And that they’re the oldest
Theon referring to "seven hells" is also quite indicative..
Perhaps the noise Jon heard was Bran during his travels with Bloodraven, like he did on the show with Ned at the Tower Of Joy.
That’s my theory also. The 3 eyed raven made the noise.
@@rubyloveii3828 Here's hoping we'll be proven right if another book ever makes it to the shelves.
Ghost as a "Quiet Wolf"? :)
John, is Targaryen’s who descendants of house Blackwood. Remember, Rhaegar, is half Targ, half Blackwood. So he is genetically more Northern than Eddards kids.
The Blackwoods left the North hundreds if not thousands of years ago and have been intermarrying with Andal families for a thousand years. Ned’s kids are the first non pure northern stark offspring we know of (of using your standard of measurement and counting the Blackwoods as pure northerners). Rhaegar is nowhere near as northern as the Starks
Every biological child of Ned received a wolf. Not nieces and nephews, wards, friends, Theon, etc., just his biological children. That tells us everything we need to know about Ned being his father.
Ghost is marked by the Old Gods. He looks like a weirwood tree, and those trees are associated with sight. If so, Ghost can "see clearer than most". If so, he is a really powerful direwolf. (correct me if I'm wrong pls)
Also "open eyes" is another way to say someone is "updated" on what's happening around them , just as both Jon and by extension, Ghost knows about the fight against the Others and try to take action.
Not once, in the entire series, is Jon likened in any way to Raegar, nor does he have a single thought about a dragon. He's all Ned, Stark, Wolf, Wall, Winterfell, Last Hero, Ice Ice Ice Ice Ice damnit no fire at all just ICE.
I agree! Not once in the entire series does Jon have a dragon or fire dream, and Daenerys does all the time.
It might be rather obvious if he did, no? Either way he's got Stark blood, so that's safe to show us. Dragon dreams would really stand out. Or playing a lute or something. ;) He also has no dreams of falling stars or milky swords or Dorne. Where are his Dayne traits, if that's the reasoning?
couldn’t that be just a storytelling device to not lead us to figure out the big reveal of his parentage?
@@Genarii his chapters actually have A LOT of references to Dawn.
He also burned his hand badly when defeating the wight. Healing from that burn became part of his character. Jon is always thinking of his sword hand being damaged by fire.
After the sacrifice it opened some magic to allow Jon to hear the wolves
I read somewhere the whole story is about Jon and Daenerys but I think it shifted to being all about the Starks since grrm original title for the final book was A Time For Wolves.
It reminds me of Robert greeting everyone and apparently cursing them...
Instant Warg bond.
I am living for these extra nails in the R+L=J nonsense😂😂😂
Before the storm: WHAT?! a new video? *Carlton dance*
I definitely think Bloodraven behind the dire wolf 🐺 puppies.
Do you think Cat knew in Lysa's secret coded letter to her that Jon's true parentage was revealed? I ask this because it was after she received the letter and quickly burned it, that she treated Jon worse after Bran's fall from the broken tower. But in regards to this podcast, I think the way Jon senses Ghost immediately, because it proves that he is Ned's only trueborn son.
"It's so weird that's his eyes are open! Why would his eyes be open first? He's def not the oldest dire wolf; not even a true born I bet. He must have gotten separated from another wolf pack. " - Ned (probably)
Ghost isn’t from the same litter of pups as the rest of them?
I thought Ghost alerted the Jon’s friends as he was leaving to join Rob? Didn’t he make a sound then?
Ys he did
Jon being better at everything was definitely a testament to him being Lyanna’s son because she was better than Ned and Benjen, much like Arya was with Bran. And, “the best leaders know when to follow” even though he had amnesia when he first got to the Wall 😉
I know it's unpopular on this channel but I have to say it's still possible that r+l is true... As awesome as n+a would be there is evidence out there that might prove jon is a targ... Everytime a targ marries someone with darker features the firstborn of that union has dark features... Think of baelor breakspear looking dornish while his 3 younger brothers looks targaryen. Think of aegon v and his firstborn duncan with a blackwood wife, Duncan the small had dark features while his younger siblings had valyrian looks. And then there's Rhaegar and Elia who's firstborn rhaenys looked dornish yet her younger brother aegon looked valyrian like rhaegar... It's only reasonable to assume that if R+L=J was true then jon as the firstborn of that union would have his mother lyannas dark features like dark brown hair, dark grey eyes etc.
We don’t think RLJ is impossible. We just think naj makes more sense and makes it a far better story
@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand yes it definitely would be great and there is a lot of evidence for NAJ too and I have to admit I would love to see a reunion with Jon and lemore (ashara) so I'm mostly hoping NAJ is true and not RLJ
Interesting thoughts 👍🔥🔥🔥
Ghost's eyes were as red as the blood of the Watch man just executed(sacrificed?)...
Someone once said that they think Jon is as much a romantic in his own way as Sansa. What do you think?
Makes sense. He is just more in reality and not as much in his head. But definitely a lot of idealism in him
@@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195 Well, as the person I heard this from said, he seemed to have a rather idealistic view of the Watch and surely, being at Winterfell, someone had to have mentioned what they were really like. Yet he somehow managed not to hear it.
It could have been Bran. Bran just heard the leaves. How do you hear the leaves rustling over the trotting horses? 3 eyed raven Bran could have called to Jon. Just like Bran did with Ned in the God's Wood at Winterfell, where Ned perks up because he thinks he heard something.
Ghost called to John, thats why he was away from the other pups, with his eyes open. But Ghost never makes a sound..?
just curious. when he says “it says on every page on the app that jon found the wolves” what app is he referring to? i’m new here. thanks for your help.
George’s official world of ice and fire app
Any idea's on how the Starks of old got hold of their Direwolves? did they "find" them too or did the Wolf just appear when needed? or were they bred? or a wolf hunt beyond the wall?
love it
think if you go a little bit further back from where you started reading you also find who sent the wolf "who controls the dead"?
If jon is a Targaryen that means he is lyanas son .. who is a stark. Why is it weird if the warg blood passed from his mother? Like why does rhaegar being his father mean his stark mother's traits are negated?
I hate to just "blame it on Bloodraven," but it is an albino dog... it wouldn't take much to "whisper" to Jon in some way. Then again, maybe Jon just heard some rustling in the debris of the bank. Either way, I fail to see how Jon finding the wolves would make him less likely to be Lyanna's son rather than Ned's. If one really wanted to argue the other way one could point out the fiery eyes of Jon's wolf, in fact. Mainly, I don't buy N+A=J it because D&D couldn't write their way out of a wet paper bag. The big plot points had to be given to them by GRRM. Then they were too lazy to do it right. Stuff that really makes no sense like Jon going back North beyond the non-existent Wall at the start of winter is a clue, in my mind, that Jon will have to go there but for an actual reason. Other show nonsense is likely the result of combining characters like Ramsay and Harry the Heir, or Dany and (f)Aegon.
You really believe the story about d&d though? That screams scripted publicity to me... or they said N+A=J because Cersie literally says that to Ned and he doesn't deny it, which is very straightforward and simple enough. Either way it doesn't matter because GRRM will never finish his life's work
@@AJ0223 Indeed, Ned doesn't deny it to Cersei. Because after 15 years of silence on the subject we should expect him to clear it all up in book one because Cersei insults him with mistaken info? How many shits do you give when someone you don't respect in the first place accuses you of things you didn't do while displaying their ignorance about the details your past? I wouldn't think Ned's silence to Cersei on the subject requires any explanation, but there it is anyway.
Also, I have no idea what "story about d&d" you're referring to. There are many reasons I don't buy that N+A=J, but the idea that the showrunners would alter that element when it didn't turn out to be relevant beyond helping Dany go crazy and Varys getting killed is a significant one. Otherwise they could just have a little flashback with Bran showing Ned and Ashara with baby Jon and call it good. No additional scenes needed. D&D obviously wanted nothing more than to finish the show as quickly as possible so they could fuck off to go ruin a Star Wars trilogy. That's even easier to do if Jon's parentage isn't R+L. Not to mention, George was involved w/ the show through Season 4 and laid absolutely zero groundwork for N+A=J. No Daynes; neither Darkstar nor Ned Dayne nor any other save a flashback with Arthur (with two swords instead of a pale two-hander). Was Dawn even *mentioned* on the show outside of Blu-ray extras like 'Histories and Lore?' With just these facts alone, we have to believe George, who wanted 12+ seasons and a true-to-the-books show for some reason always planned to have a completely different parentage and outcome for Jon on the show? Or that George "kinda forgot about" Dawn and house Daynes' living members when it came to the show?
I get it. People are *very* attached to their pet theories about Jon's parentage and a hint as big as "it's R+L in the show" won't change their minds, nor any amount of evidence from the books. Instead they'll work backwards from their conclusion and find evidence (however flimsy) to fit it. Also, I wholeheartedly agree with you about the books never being finished. This fat 70 y/o thinks he'll live to 100 apparently and therefore can dick around for another decade with prequel shows no one is excited for after the debacle of D&D's version of his magnum opus. What he'll really get is a bunch of fan fiction versions of book 7 (and maybe 6 too if he can't even manage to finish that). Or in the near future they'll make AI that can analyze and imitate any author and an AI GRRM will finish it instead. Sorry for the long reply.
@@Genarii I just want to make it clear I dont care about any of this I didn't read a single word of that I think this is all a waste of time that I find mildly entertaining enough to listen to as background noise mostly when driving. I think George is a sad bitter creep and his entire life's work is ultimately garbage so have fun being fake and gay bud
@@AJ0223 So you read and reply to thread's on a channel dedicated to a topic you don't care about? I'm not sure what "fake and gay" is supposed to mean and I'm sorry to hear that you're too lazy to read. You sound rather upset with GRRM so it sounds more like you care too much.
Playing devil's advocate here but if we are looking for symbolism here are a few 1 John's last name is snow because bastards in the north are named snow but no matter who his parents are all signs point to him being born in dorne therefore it should be sand not the white substance known as snow. 2 his wolf is white with red eyes ( red a color associated with dragons btw )3 his sword is whiteclaw. Why so many associations to white the color of many targaryens hair?
His wolf looks like a weirwood. Bloodraven was born in kings landing and has the surname Rivers so I don’t think the location of birth has anything to do with the bastard names. And his sword is called longclaw
Weirwood is another name for “heart tree”. This is curious because two hearts beating as one is found later in the series. Jon has been intuiting the dire wolves with his heart.
I have a mostly unrelated comment. But I was listening to the world book today about house Baratheon. Orys was a rumored half brother of aegon. But as far as I know, neither he nor any of his descendents have been dragon riders. So I assume the rumors false. If RLJ is to be believed: Jon Snow is also a dark haired rumored half brother to an Aegon Targaryen who has next to zero affinity with dragons. Maybe it's a subtle hint that RLJ is false. Maybe it's nothing. Just food for thought.
Great topic..
Interesting.
I'd really want to see a video of you guys examining the theory that Tyrion is a Targaryen. It makes more sense and would be a nail in the R+L=J theory. Tyrion dreams of dragons but Jon doesn't? All Jon ever dreams about are the cripts of Winterfell and being the Lord of Winterfell. Also Tyrion being a Targaryen is the reason Tywin is so he'll bent on making sure Tyrion never inherits Casterly Rock. Tywin never acknowledges Tyrion as his heir despite Jaime being in the Kingsguard and even Tyrion says Tywin treats him like a bastard. Tywin was willing to let Tyrion take the black just to make sure Tyrion never becomes Lord of Casterly Rock.
I wonder if Cersei, Jaime, and Tyrion are all Targaryens. Tywin might be infertile and in denial. Maybe Joanna was really interested in Aerys, Joanna and Aerys were having an affair, and Aerys' jokes about prima nocta were clues Martin put in (?)
@@alexmarkadonis7179 Tywin seems clueless about such things. For instance he appears not to know about Jaime and Cersei, yet Kevan Lannister does. However, I do think Jaime and Cersei are Lannisters. They have the Lannister look and Jaime is very much Tywin's son despite what Lady Genna said. When Tywin dies, Jaime gives Cersei very good counsel on how to govern the realm. Jaime even deals with the Riverlords very strategically with an astute political and military mind. So I genuinely think Jaime and Cersei are Lannisters because they even have the green Lannister eyes and golden hair. As for Tyrion, he has mismatched eyes, one green and one black with hair so blonde it looked white (Targaryen hair). Also, Tyrion was said to be born with a tail, think back to Maegor the cruel and the deformed monstrosities his wives used to birth.
@@mwirigi5026 fair points, but I think genius and madness often go hand in hand. The incestuous relationship between Jaime and Cersei might make more sense were they Targaryens. Were Tywin impotent too, his hatred of whores and distaste for Tyrion's activities might make more sense; he hates sex because he cannot always get it up and he envies Tyrion's ability to have sex.
The better twist would be that Jaime and Cersei are Targaryens but Tyrion is a Lannister.
@@alexmarkadonis7179 The incestuous relationship is a good point. I have no argument against it. As for the impotence and hatred for whores, wasn't Tywin found with Shae the night he died? I don't think Tywin hates whores, I just think he hates whoring being public like Tyrion does it. Reminds him of his father and the mistress who he made walk Lannisport naked.
Would this also mean that Jon indirectly saved Bran's life? Because I don't think the direwolves being there or not would have impacted anything leading to Bran's fall....but if he hadn't convinced Ned to let the wolves come back to Winterfell, Summer wouldn't have been there to attack the catspaw who was sent to kill Bran, and while Catelyn could hold him off for a bit, it likely wouldn't have been long enough to keep him from killing her and Bran.
I loved Jon and Daenerys paralleling journeys in the books and show. I know there will be a final battle between ice and fire so sadly Jon will kill Daenerys in the books too.
Awesome episode guys! My only dig is that I think you overlooked one thing when diagnosing Jon giving Robb credit for finding the Direwolves.
Put yourself back into your 10 year old body for a second. You and your Brother find puppies. Your Dad is largely a hardass, but he cool. Your Mom however, is a BIIIIIIIIIIIIITCH to your Brother. Always. Won't even let him sit at the dinner table, Harry Potter Under The Stairs, abusive type shit.
Now, you and your Brother DEFINITELY want to keep puppies. Do you tell your Mom that You, the favorite, found the puppies, or your Brother, the literal bastard son?
I can tell you 1000% me and my nieces are playing this shit however we have to so that we keep the puppies.
We forgot two things can be true at the same time. Because of his potential parentage he is both Wolf and Dragon and because he is both he is also automatically more magically more powerful then them all the power of the wolf and dragon combined his song will be the Sonh of Ice and Fire!
I think Blood Raven has a lot to do with Ghost and helps Jon along the way with Ghost. So we still don’t know who Rob listed as his heir. This makes me wonder if Ned did not tell Rob and Rob did list Jon as his heir. I think the oldest Stark or the Stark left behind at Winterfell was told a lot more than others. If the Stark at Winterfell doesn’t know then the crypts and history doesn’t make sense. Jon is the oldest and he sensed them.
Lyana is a Stark as well. Which means Jon is part 🐺.
Are y’all forgetting about bloodraven? We know through Bran that they are able to interact with people through the weirwood network. So him hearing something on the wind could have easily been Bloodraven giving Jon a sign. Also there are signs that bloodraven has been basically watching over every single move that Jon has made. Be it through ghost or mormonts raven. Also I don’t think it’s a coincidence that bloodraven is albino and so is ghost.