As a fantasy player of old, I have been dreading the new releases of older armies for years. With every new sculpt that ends up being mono pose click fit monstrosity as the main units, my gaming soul dies a little every time. Now they are doing it on the 40K side, and I end up calculating how much of my pile of shame that I can sell on E-Bay in order to afford a new 3D printer.
Love how GW keep on charging so much for models, then you see Frostgrave who do 20 models for £19.00 and you can mix and match between boxes for cultists or free company militia
@@DiscourseMinis I was chatting with a friend the other day, for around £60 you could get 48 models from frostgrave (40 soldiers either mark 1 or 2, and 8 female wizards) compared to the GW £60 offering of a Combat Patrol set
This x100. GW was the scrappy young company trying to build an empire. Now, they have ruled over this empire for years, and in the last two years stock wise at least has have been the most valuable they have ever been. Now they are at the top, they are facing a challenge of a major change to the hobby. Unwilling to change their business model as they have "established" a price point for their product, they are railing HARD against any threat to their IP. From fan made projects to 3D printing, they are trying to kill any alternative that will affect their cash flow. I don't think they understand no king rules forever, especially if their kind forgets about the plebs that pay the bills. If a game like World of Warcraft can be toppled, Warhammer can fall as well.
GW: "We will cull your personal creativity and choices and force you to pay even more to us, what you gonna do about it?" Me: Laughing in my Frostgrave gnollish style xD
Hah! Yeah, I think they're alienating a lot of customers. The problem is: if they continue to monetize their existing players so aggressively, will their bottom line notice?
@@DiscourseMinis Who knows what goes in those corporate minds? Sometimes, I feel like they live by "Only fools think about future!" motto - they want a lots of money right now, and are intended to milk it even at the expense of, as you said, alienating customers and losing a long-term support. But hey, maybe this will help a lot of people to at last find out that GW and their games aren't the only ones at the market. I mean, it worked on me at least - I started to be interested in "lower-brand" games (starting of course with my favourite Frostgrave) after being fed up with GW shenenigans and losing my view of them as at least semi-dependable provider (the latest "copyright noose" to the neck of creativity and constant changing of gameplay, cough-cough-Kill Team, was the last straw for me)
@@williammccroskey2186 The death of the game that really got GW started was when I quit in disgust. Gone over to OPR just this month after a long exile in historical games land.
@@FelixstoweFoamForge I only recently learned of fantasy death cause I just got into total war warhammer during the start of covid and was sad to see such a unique world go (although after reading how some went out like throg peeing on sigvald made me laugh and was almost worth it) but the one bright side (not aos unless you like it which it's not as bad just had worst starting) was if fantasy kept going it could have ended up exactly like 40k now. But for fantasy I'm just making my own made up world in my head and it all started cause I wanted to put warplock jazzelies on terradons and now it's became a world in a few days. Still writing stuff down but yeah will never be like the fantasy world.
Another great video by Discourse! I think what's important to remember here is that GW is implementing several layers of marketing arrogance. They genuinely believe (at least in the board room) that you will be so hyped for the new minis. that you'll happily buy multiple boxes to get all the shooters you'll need, even if half the sprues are tossed into a shoe box and go completely wasted and unused. They prey on the basest of our consumerist qualities. First, that all your hundreds of old Ork models from previous editions of 40k and Kill Team are now useless and you MUST get the new ones in order to be happy playing the game. Therefore it doesn't matter how the news ones are packaged in a way that rips you off, you'll buy whatever it takes to be happy in your quest to always have the newest stuff. And they also plan on enough gamers being so hopelessly emotionally connected to their products that they simply won't buy minis. from another company simply because it's "not GW." And I hate to say it, but hundreds of thousands of gamers out there do exactly that. They buy GW without even considering the alternatives. GW's marketing goal is to keep you in a constant state of perceived dissatisfaction. That's the key. A perpetual, constant state of dissatisfaction. That is, the last thing you bought should be of no interest any more, but the thing that is about to come out should be the most awesomest thing you have ever seen in your life and you had better order it before you miss out! To a certain degree it's not even about the quality of the models. Or even about the models at all! Or the game. It's about the cycle of what is ABOUT to come out. You notice that GW is like a Schizophrenic? When something is about to be released, the hype is on the level of a f'n life-saving medicine? But almost immediately after something new comes out, the level of care about it plummets to less than zero? They're either at an 11 or at a -35 on the Spinal Tap dial. Look at things like Sons of Behemat. How much do you hear about them in Warhammer Community now? It's crickets. GW treats their models and games like fast food but with gourmet prices.
Thank you for the comment! I really do agree with your points. It's all about the next thing, forget about what we've released, lets keep going! You can really see it in the codices and the rush to try and convince players to splurge out on the new factions. I think you've really hit the nail on the head with the feeling of a perpetual state of dissatisfaction. Well, I'm sick of it haha!
I’ve had to drop 40k like a hot potato. Ive been waiting for an Emperors Children codex for 4 years thinking gw would be dividing chaos marines into their sub-factions reasonably quickly. Now I’m inclined to think that if Emperors Children do ever hit shelves, they’ll be overpriced, mono-pose, gimmicky and have unfinished rules that will need immediate tweaking. Considering also the likely 2 maybe 3 year lifespan of core rules editions and codex’s that ultimately determine the effectiveness and playability of an army. I don’t mind doing the homework to learn new rules but not before every game because another faq/points adjustment has altered a poorly thought through game between the weeks when I get to play. I’ll be focusing on other games, or just collect to display if nobody in my group wants to try something new, I’m that fed up with the shenanigans!
May I interest you in Stargrave? It's not an army game, but I like it better than Kill Team (though I've only almost played that), it's miniature agnostic, and it's cheaper than a single 40k codex.
@@mycatistypingthis5450 I’d prefer to go small skirmish rather than army scale games, that way I don’t have a wardrobe, 3 display cases and a bookcase full of obsolete gw figures. I’ll search your suggestion, thanks
@@johnwalton287 For skirmish you could try Deadzone from Mantic Games, it's pretty nice although it does tend to use specific terrain. Kings of War: Vanguard is also excellent, if you're into fantasy.
Literally the same for me dude. Just swap out Emperors Children for World Eaters. I just have zero enthusiasm for this game any more. I wanna walk away completely but I feel bad cause I made kind of a pact with a friend when we both got into it 3 or so years ago. He didnt want to pull the trigger on this super expensive hobby unless I was going in on it with him and now we've both spent several hundred dollars each. I feel kinda obligated to him.
Even on the old 40k "Start collecting" boxes, to me, contained better priced, better value, contents. When I collected Imperial Guard, it was more economical to buy two, or three start collectings. Hell, even the Necron Combat Patrol isn't too bad! It's mostly stuff you'll use. But the flyer means you may only -need- to buy the box once. I think you're right in saying the combat patrols play to a younger audience. And my Penny Chew to add to that is that the combat patrol box incentivises what me and my mate call the "arms race" between friends. There's enough to -start- but the next units can, and will, swing games within a small gaming group, which stimulates more purchasing ...and then we're at the point of "the deeper wallet wins" More so than the better player. My opinion is the Necron rollout was done better. They were in a BIG NEW STARTER set, then came out as individual boxes THEN got their combat patrol (kinda like sisters...but that a whole other bag of canned worms!) Also... heartbroken that your type includes football hooligans xD
This is a really interesting point. I’ve never thought about the “arms race” potential of the boxes, but on reflection that is definitely something that has occurred in my own experience. It happens with a lot of purchases, but the Combat Patrols really play into it. I am totally agreed on the Necron release being done better! My personal hope would be for releases to come with a Box Bundle that comes at a discount, but then all other models being released alongside that. As such players would the choice of picking up what they want. It’s crazy to me that this is something that has to be fought for.
Not being able to equip 20/20 boyz with sluggas and choppas makes the combat patrol box kind of useless to me. I was going to get two despite already having three Deffdreads but I will be giving it a miss now. I really like the old boyz kit anyway. Geedubs, you fool of a Took.
I'm completely jaded with the idea of a simple release of new tyranid anything, if they are going to do this to Orks, arguably one of the most popular factions, how do you think they'll treat nids or tau or guard? Not even space marines are exempt from this crap. This is the same shit they pulled with the other special characters when 9th came out where they shoved in extra troops or tabks that nobody wanted. This isn't new, but it also shouldn't be standard practoce just because it's been happening for a while
Yeah, exactly! Games Workshop have been at this for a while, but this box represents that fact that it's going to be even worse going further if they can get away with it.
Going to disagree, in 10th edition ork boys squads will be 3 shootas, 5 choppas, one special weapon, and a nob. To get them in 30 repeat the formation twice. If you think I am wrong look at what they did to Deathguard and the mechanicus.
Yeah, when they released 9th ed death guard codex the army I have been using for about 20 years changed quite drastically. I've now basically jus boxed them up, put them in the garage and noped out of 40k after over 20 years of playing it 😅 I can't afford new armies as I've been priced out by GW and then they change almost everything about my one, main army 😅
@@bertmc1365 save for 3d printer and cure machine if got the space. Its a no brainer for a hobbyist. If you just game look for a new company or see if the open play stuff works/own rules. Sadly gw jyst doesn't make things for customers
Perhaps off topic, but may we offer our congratulations on you executing the most radical (and successful) pivot we've seen any wargaming channel make in a very a long while. Your editorial rants are entertaining, informative and always worth a listen, even if we're not up on the latest GW releases. Rock on, you rebel you.
@@martineasterman5170 It work with primaris because you need less of them in squads/ of one type. When you build an army who needs 90 boys... You will cry from all the doubles/Triples monoposes guys you get in a single squad.
@@sportyeight7769 also space marines are far easier to make distinct even with the same pose, given that you can whack some gear on, paint half a helmet white for one lad or some personalised spike-patterns on another, use a transfer or design from another chapter to indicate having earned the respect of particular allies, and most enjoyable of all, by giving your active war zone combatants some SERIOUS battle damage, scarred plate and scorch-marks that make the marines feel a lot less like pristine poster boys and more like actively-enduring badasses. With Orks, though, when you’re running at least twice as many in models and there’s only so much a few different colours or trinkets can do… the same faces and poses really begin to stick out, and it’s hard to do anything about that :/
Thanks for your impression and opinion. But I have to confess, I’m now even more tempted to kitbash as much as possible out of the new boys. Mixing them with the beastsnaggas should help a bit, but I’m really excited how much work it is, to mix them with the old multiparty kits. Heck, I’m so old, kitbashing meant to me, cutting damn metal minis in pieces, pin every single piece and hope it works, after spending a whole day on only one mini :D So as long as it’s plastic, I‘m not worried. But your point is right. The multipart kits where kind of the gold standard for a loooong time and especially for horde armies, there should always be the option for simple customization.
I would suggest my fellow ork players/hobbyist look into buying a jewler's saw for $10-$15 on Amazon and get their kit bash on. A jewler's saw is like a very fine bladed coping-saw designed to cut curved scroll work patterns in metal when making jewlery. I like a jewler's saw a bit more than the more ubiquitous hobby/razor saw because the jewler's saw has a very narrow blade that allows me to follow the contours of a model, where as a razorsaw is primarily only good for straight cuts. I originally bought my jewler's saw to modify hotwheels for gaslands but I've had success using it to customize ork models. I recently used it to separate the giant skull from the shoulder of a AoS Orruk Megaboss in order to kitbash into a 40K warboss. The end result was a shoulder that only needed a little bit of simple putty work to look like new and a badass dragonlike skull bit I can mount to the front of a buggy/vehicle. Side-cutters or the razorsaw would have required me to choose to do significant damage to either the skull or the shoulder in order to separate the two.
Its really sad when the memes from a few years ago have become reality "Here's an idea, we _double_ the prices and _halve_ the amount of models! That way every model is worth twice as much to the player, and everyone wins!"
I hope that's the case, but GW should have let players know if so! Instead they've opened preorders without clarifying that point, because obfuscating whether different models will be available in future serves their bottom line.
I don't understand GW's thought process. Plenty of people, myself included would still be happy to buy their minis at a higher than average price since they are some of the best looking, but not when they're doubling the price and cutting the amount of minis per box sometimes compared to other 28mm wargames. They could have awesome mono-pose for elite units and things like that while still having multi-pose for basic infantry. They could appeal to everyone a bit but they just don't. And who is all the monopose even for? The only people I ever see happy with all the monopose-ization are space marine players who know how easy it is to cut off the arm slots on primaris and basically still build them as a multi-pose kit.
I just built the commandos from the Octarius box and while they are monopose, the poses offered are so much more dynamic and gorgeously detailed than the current plastic orks. While yes, the simple bits swaps possible between the various plastic ork kits, do have their advantages; in order to achieve anything more dynamic than a raised or lowered arm or body twisted to one side or the other already required significant cutting and putty work. Maybe it's because I harken back from the good "bad" old days of the early 2000's when ork players had to kitbash half the codex entries. There were no models for the battle wagon, scarboyz, 'ardboyz, there were only two metal tankbusta sculpts, a few old 2nd ed metal commandos sculpts, you either used the "somewhat charming" but rather lacking Gorka/Morka vehicles or scratch built/converted your own from other kits; we had to convert them all, and I still love that 3rd ed codex. It was the amount of customization and creativity displayed by ork players of that era that set them apart from the players of all the other armies. I fear these young ork players (post 2008) have grown soft and complacent (he says tongue lodged firmly in cheek). Buy a jewler's saw, some plastic card, some scuplting putty/greenstuff, and get to work. Remember where we as ork players came from, da old wayz iz best!
I have given up on GW doing things with their customers in mind instead of their bottom line. I am thankful there are so many other options. If you are upset with what GW is doing, stop buying their overpriced shit.
So a lot of very valid criticisms, but I think the way GW are going with these new boyz is to have mixed groups of the unit and just say "these boyz all have shootas". Yes it's less WYSIWYG, but it's also way easier to change your loadouts/klans. Want more shootas today? Run them all as shootas. Need more melee tomorrow? Just run them as choppas. To be entirely fair, there is no one better solution. To have options you either need to buy multiple boyz kits. Or have one mixed kit and be less immersive. You could even argue that the community just accepting that boyz squads are mixed now could save a lot of players money. What would you rather? Buy/build/paint 2 kits so you have one shootas and one choppas? Or buy/build/paint one kit and choose what you want them to run on the fly? Neither option here is wrong to me.
I think this brushes up the general expectation from the community that the models will be WYSIWYG. And this is something that Games Workshop actively encourages. My honest answer is that I'd like to see players be given the choice of what to bring, and for that to be reflected in the sprues. I think you're right though, now that these are the sprues going forward, I think players will just have to say: "all these boyz are shootas". The problem is - what if you have one Shoota Squad and one Slugga Squad? You don't get enough Orks in the box to make even divides.
@@DiscourseMinis Yeah it sucks. If you have two squads and wanted to divide I would put the 6 shootas in one squad to at least make it a *little* bit more WYSIWYG. It’s more of a “well I’m not going to buy more boxes to make it 100% so GW will have to deal with it not being WYSIWYG” kind of situation for me since we aren’t going to have a good solution unless GW either keeps the old boyz around or brings out a new box of “shoota boyz”.
This GW malpractice has tradition. Back in the 90s the Space Marine game (early Epic) provided Eldar players with a War Host box. Upon buying two of these boxes you could field each Eldar unit for at least a single time. There was however an exception. For fielding Dark Reapers and Howling Banshees you would need FOUR boxes. Safe to say I didn´t cave in and played every game without those top-tier units. Many years later the Death Guard codex was released for the first time. Having CSM painted in a green/brown fashion it would have been a great opportunity to pick this book up. After reading a couple of unit entries it became apparent that DG terminators can´t be equipped with power fists thus making my models ILLEGAL. It was no great surprise to put this book back into the store´s shelf and leaving the place while chuckling at GW´s shenanigans. During the last years I have mainly frequented GW stores to buy paints. However after those idiotic price tags ( especially"Cash Wastes") this company has more and more become anathema to me. Looking forward to buy Vallejo paints in the future thus getting rid of GW for good.
I think that's going to definitely be a good strategy. But they will probably be replacing the old kit at some stage. And besides, this way GW have gotten you to buy the Combat Patrol box AND a squad of Orks. Win win for them!
@@DiscourseMinis which is exactly what I did this week when I saw the new sprues - BUT if I build 3 shooter boys from that to add to the combat patrol I have a 10 ork shooter squad, PLUS if I swap the 2 forced hvy wpn orks from the combat patrol for sluggas from the old box, take the hvy wpn from the old box, add the one rokkit kommando from the kill team I also just bought and convert a new ork to be a kommando instead, convert one more to be a rokit guy with some spares (deep breath, bear with me here), I then have a squad of tankbustas, PLUS I can then convert the remaining old orks/or some new orks by sticking spare space marine jump packs / random engine bits on them so I have a squad of stormboyz, so I then don't buy those kits, and... maybe it works out? Until I can physically move them from one unit to the other I can't quite be sure....
@@JudgeGlanton The problem is that the patrol boyz are push-fit (with holes and pegs and very specific configurations), unlike the old boyz and say the loota/burna kit, or the stormboyz kit, where you could easily swap arms, heads and weapons, without much in the way of files, saws, greenstuff, or sculpting skill required. Plus, the new orks heads are too small, and they have foreheads now, and somehow less expression. This might not be a push for some folks, but for others (those more focused on collecting, building and painting than playing) this might be a push out the door.
Ork upgrade sprues. Calling it. In fact. Upgrade sprues in general. Monopose miniatures are the perfect way to lock you into upgrade sprues. I should know. I'm a Necromunda player.
Yeah, you're totally right. Upgrade sprues are... very frustrating to me as a player and hobbyists. It's such a nickel and dime scheme. Gotta love DLC! :
@@mycatistypingthis5450 If you're running a pretty vanilla gang they're fine out out of the box. As soon as you start getting the spicy stuff off the trading post and want to run WYSIWYG then get your wallet out.
I don’t mind upgrade sprues for Necromunda because realistically how many gangers are you going to be running anyways? And a plastic upgrade sprue is so much more welcome than the resin FW weapons packs. Two gang boxes and an upgrade weapons sprue and you’re basically set and good to go.
Knowing GW this monopose kit is their plan for the start collecting boxes in the future, so that people who get a bunch of models in a "discount box" don't baulk at the price of their main miniature boxes, so if people want to make an army from multiples of the box, they will have a lot of obvious duplicates, and that leans quite handily into peer pressure and more excuses for the ridiculous "Poorhammer" slur to be chucked out - shaming people into buying the more expensive kits.
I think gw are going monopose to screw over third party bitz makers. Its harder for them to sell conversion kits if the gw models can only go together one way.
@@chucklapine6782 I'm sure that's part of it, but I doubt it's one motivating factor. There'll be a few reasons and they're only thinking of the benefits to them and having absolute indifference or ignorantly not knowing the costs to consumers.
They doing the same crap in AOS too. Every year you need the generals handbook to play Multiplayer, and every year now they have in there the scenarios and new rules you have to play by. Well this year its based on Monsters. You get special bonus's in the scenarios if you have monsters. This makes you want to buy monsters. Next year will be a different type of unit they say. Nickle and Dime is the the perfect term for GWS, and that is why people hate them so much.
AoS has been doing PLENTY of scummy things to get people to buy centerpiece kits. there were s tier competitive battalions that required 4-5 of the same $60-140 kit like FEC and Slaanesh not that long ago. Sons of behemat required gw to make only ONE kit! technically its own army release
AOS General handbook was way better than what we got in 40k. The 40k CA 2021 was literally 40K CA2020, only the secondaries got changed and everything else is the same. I can't believe they are charging us $50 bucks for that shit. They could have just printed an FAQ and be done with it but no... they had to milk us dry
There is so much to be happy about with the recent Ork releases. But also sooooo much to be sad about. Can't disagree with anything you said in this video. You continue to speak the truth D.
I had this difficulty with Necromunda. So many of the guns cam on the sprue. The whole point of the game is about individual equipment for individual gangers.
Orks for my first love when it came to Warhammer 40K, I've always loved them, but it's baffling to me to see them going the way of push fit, monopose models. And it's baffling to me that these are being released on the proverbial coattails of the octarius set that featured a stellar multi-part kit for the Kommandos LOADED with options. In my mind the only excuse possible for this is what was mentioned prior, that these figures were meant for some sort of starter box that had to be scrapped due to the pandemic.. it's the only rational thought that can come to my mind because I truly cannot imagine GW being 'that' awful... But then again, this is GW..
Yeah, the single pose models started with the Primaris, but I got a first hand account when I bought my Sisters of Battle. No options, everything has the same poses, one squad does not feels different as another, little to no bits left- and those who remains can only fit in one maybe two model pose...and coming from the Guard/Empire, where I got more bits than I'll ever need in each and every kit, it's a shock to say the least. And I agree making a box set for a horde army in which half your models are into a fixed type that's not always intresting (Dakka over Choppa every day!) or can even fit with your army configuration or even how you'd like to play 'your' orks.
They started this crap over a decade ago. This is just the culmination of deliberate steps towards the most rapacious business practices that has infected the tabletop hobby market. As much as I love the setting, concepts, and models, I'm just as done with them as I was 13 years ago when I walked away for good. Not that I haven't been tempted by the plastic candy, but after watching them devolve from the cool 'hobbies by hobbyists' vibe in the 80s to the cash extraction vehicle that they are today, I am happy that I moved on. I hope more do the same.
If I was an Ork player, which I am not, I have to admit, I would by one box of the new Boyz, then just mix them up in units of the old Boyz. Orks vary in size after all!
I still remember those imperial knight armiger models with two different styles but they came in different boxes of twos and you wanted to play three... So you had to buy two boxes of each to have three matching ones... GW has been doing these schemes on their customers for 30+ years but in the last five it's just become way too much. I have no motivation to play their games between this and just keeping up with rules etc. After 20ish years im done with at least the game aspect for now.
What’s disappointing is the lack of interchangeable parts for example as a guard player we can choose any weapon we like be it a lasgun, flamer or even a rocket launcher due to the standardized bodies and the arms are simply attachments vs the new kits which have locked poses ie running or jumping vs a marine jumping but wield a chainsword and storm shield or what not
I urge all newer hobbyists to embrace kitbashing from the start. I decided to get into 40k with an Indomitus box. I'd been using AoS models for years, but decided to jump in just to give 40k a try. I bought the box and the Salamanders upgrade spues just to open the box and find out that the primaris marines in the box weren't designed for the upgrades since they were all monopose. Well, I'm not having that. I got out the hobby knife, chopped the shoulders off, and put on my Salamanders pauldrons. Snip, off with the captain's hand. I don't care if he's supposed to have a power sword. I can play him that way, but his power sword is looking like a bad-ass hammer. Get that damn shield off the ground, mount it to your back and run into battle with both hands equipped. I play Orks too, so it looks like I'm going to be going down the same road with any new boyz models I get. Hell, I've already started bringing Ironjawz models into the fray. For example, the 40k weirdnob is a garbage sculpt, so I use a modified AoS model instead. I, like every other Ork player in the world, build all boyz in a unit to have the same weapon loadout. Looks like I'll be snipping and gluing to get what I want. I'm looking forward to your video on the codex topic. I think they need to embrace a more lore/art heavy standard for the books and digital downloads for the rules. They can always provide a free app, or simple web interface and then include a one-time code for each model in the box so we can download and keep the rules up to date. The books won't automatically be useless as soon as their published and the players can still play their models they've purchased. I can't wait to hear what all you have to say, I'm sure it will inspire interesting discussion.
For my marines I collect left over parts and either sell them of to someone else who’s lookin for say a bolter or bandelier of shotgun-shells and so on and I have a Marine duel wielding two bolters with a left and right arms from two separate sets
I didn’t even think about any Of this when I purchased my Adepta Sororitas recently. I bought t two combat patrols. Now I don’t mind what comes in the. I’ll just play whatever cause I’m a casual player. But man I’m kinda rethinking my future with GW. There are allot more games out there that I like that allow me a bit more creative freedom for less money.
This really reinforces my thoughts that we need selective boycotts of GW products. I don't think a total boycott will get us what we want. They'll just assume we're lost customers and focus on newer players and things will get worse. But if we buy the old Boyz along with the new Codex, while refusing to buy this new, inferior Boyz kit, I think it will send a clearer message to them. They'll know we are still customers they can please and get money from with the right products and maybe change the new Boyz to be multi pose.
Good luck with that. I just built the commandos from that Octarius box and while they are monopose, the poses offered are so much more dynamic and gorgeously detailed than the current plastic orks. While yes, the simple bits swaps possible between the various ork kits, has it's advantages; but to achieve anything more dynamic than a raised or lowered arm or body twisted to one side or the other already required significant cutting and putty work. Maybe it's because I harken back from the good "bad" old days of the early 2000's when ork players had to kitbash half the codex entries. There were no models for the battle wagon, scarboyz, 'ardboyz, there were only two metal tankbusta sculpts, a few old 2nd ed metal commandos sculpts, you either used the "somewhat charming" but rather lacking Gorka/Morka vehicles or scratch built/converted your own from other kits; we had to convert them all, and I still love that 3rd ed codex. It was the amount of customization and creativity displayed by ork players of that era that set them apart from the players of all the other armies. I fear these young ork players (post 2008) have grown soft and complacent (he says tongue lodged firmly in cheek). Buy a jewler's saw, some plastic card and some scuplting putty/greenstuff, and get to work. Remember where we as ork players came from, da old wayz iz best!
This is my biggest gripe with the whole primaris range (and I have a lot of gripes) - they are mono-weapon squads, which essentially encourage you to buy more different units to have variable playstyles. The Sprues are there to minimise what GW can give for cost to player
Yessss, exactly! They get very little customization as well to incentivise players to buy their overpriced "upgrade" sprues! Honestly, the Primaris range is pretty indicative of a lot of the modern GW practices
@@DiscourseMinis aye. Plus the bloat to the range. WE have 5 units that are "infiltration based" and then FB and Primaris can't ride each other's transports.....like what? IMagine if instead of Reivers, Infiltrators @ incurors they were one unit, with variety of weapons. Then they had release Primaris Death Company, Primaris Wolf Scouts & then a unique Primaris for another major faction. immedaitely you cut down on codex bloat and get more flavour
Funny enough... if you think about it... the old kits of ork boys and chaos warriors are illegal to use according to gamesworkshop rules since they said you need to use the new sculpts if you want to play in a tournament. Just a thought
3rd video of yours I watch. Haven't bought any GW boxes in years. But as an old Tyranid player, I can recognise the issue of having to buy multiple boxes for a whole squad. I can still pray myself lucky Tyranid spruces still have some customization option. Great consumer video. 👍
I've been in the hobby since 1988... I gave up on GW when they started making everything monopose. Back in the day mono kits were for cheap plastic starter boxes and the glorious multi part kits were the "real" kits. I don't miss GW one bit, especially when this is their new business model.
I don't know I just literally started collecting 40k yesterday (09/13/2021) after years of contemplating it and this is a good starter kit for noobies. With all this said, I would probably mix in older Orks to satisfy some army/battlepoint requirement...
I think their intent is eventually to have them run in mixed squads only, which makes it really confusing why they haven't squatted the old kit and changed the rules to match it. Clearly this is the same situation with the beastsnagga boyz. I also think this is a result of their new model designs. The idoneth deepkin have two different infantry options that look almost exactly the same except one has melee weapons and the other has ranged weapons. The way ranged weapons are handled and melee weapons are handled means the monopose arms needed for melee weapons more often than not do not work with the other type of weapon. They would have to design two different ork boy kits in order to have both shootas and choppas/sluggas under this new system. So instead we get a mixed squad. These technical limitations are not reflected yet in the rules, but they really should be.
I could honestly see it. And in theory I'm not entirely opposed to mixed squads - Orks aren't exactly the most organized - but eesh it'll be a tough transition
The new orks' heads are too small. My beast snaggas all look like they have orkish microcephaly--slightly bigger bodies and tiny wittle heads! They are so small that for the first time you can see their nipples under their jawlines. They just look weird next to the old skool boyz, so I replaced them all with older and appropriate 3rd party heads--and now they look cool and fit in with the other 100 boys I already have. The patrol box boyz makes that even tougher because the sculpts are kinda set with most heads connected to shoulders and chests like pimples, and arms have particular poses that are meant to slot together one way. So the new boyz are a pass for me. I might pick up the warboss in mega armor and I will definitely get a box of deffkoptas (though neither are looking particularly conversion friendly either). And for now I can live with 3 deff dreads. If they come out with a non-push-fit version down the road (even something like the komandos) I might take a look at them again. The old ork boyz sprues gave you literally thousands of different ways to model your boyz so that no two orks in your WAAAGH! need look or be posed the same with their slap on arms, legs, torsos and heads, the ball-and-socket waists and heads/necks (which itself was absolute genius), faces with actual expressions on them (there's brooding, sullen, snarling, bitey, dumb, and yellin' to name a few). Heck, they even had more hats and hair-squigs! You really didn't have to do much to get your army looking unique. A box (or 6!) of boyz (either the newer 11 boy set or that old 90's 16 boy squad with unattached shootas with grips and trigger guards (so you could hang them on that rack in the back of your pick-up trukk), add a box or two of lootas/burnas, sprinkle in some nobz, and stormboyz, and you were set to build the core of a unique ork army. Going forward though the moment the old boyz are out of stock and the new boyz are the thing (assuming they are the final thing) you are going to be seeing a lot of the same 10 or 12 ork boyz and 10 or 12 beast snaggas over and over and over again, which might work for the tournament crowd, but ork collectors not so much. "Sorry mate, but da sign on da box says "Big 'ead Bunker" you little pin-head orks wif your newfangled "fore'eads" and such will have to wait for your own club 'ouse. Dis is ours, now zog off!" ~Gobstoppa da Evalastin' Warboss of da Evalastin' WAAAGH!
For the company that pioneered the plastic minis for fantasy and scifi and then the multi-part minis for non-historical games, the return to less flexible and more mono-pose minis is kind of deplorable.
It's a bizarre trend to me, and I understand it in "starter boxes" but half the joy of the game is building your units as collections of individuals. Every model tells a story! Sucks that it's pre-written so often now.
The creativity of 40k is dying, more click fit, less customization. I like the Terrain rules in 9th but we used to create our own terrain rules, which you still can but most people will play the GW terrain rules and whats with telling us what board size to play on?
Yup, I totally agree. I'm okay with click fit models existing in starter sets. I think that they're good for new players, but I don't think they should replace the mainline models at all!
@@DiscourseMinis I also wouldn't mind if Hormagaunts / Termagaunts were click fit and monopose, if it made the box cheaper (lol fat chance with GW). They're not really meant to be super customisable anyway, ... and it will look fine when you have 150 of them on the board. Current models are 20 years old and have a design flaw where they overbalance and topple :/
Agree about the bundling in the Slaves to Darkness box .... BUT ... I love the warriors and knights, so have bought 4 copies of it and it's cheaper than be buying them separately.
I still have ptsd from the """"multipart"""" aggressor kit that forced me to choose between bruteforce/breaking/cutting/melting bits of my aggressors to have them set the way I want or assemble them in one specific copy paste way. Am tempted to buy a first born kit simply to test the customizability out since I joined during the primaris era.
Look at the company command set for firstborn One of the models it is a monopose captain from an old boxset But the other 5 in it are super customizable Especially if you have other firstborn as almost all firstborn kits are compatible
Honestly, I initially dropped 40K right at the tail of 8th edition because I didn't like the new rules being previewed and I was a little sour that I played Grey Knights through the majority of 8th (which was my first edition of ANY tabletop wargame). The longer 9th has gone on, the happier I've been that I left. I had sold off all my GW stuff except for a Stompa that I already had, and the money from that has skyrocketed me into other systems. When watching your video on Saturday about the Black Templars box, I had gotten into Kings of War about a week prior and realized that for under $200, I had gotten 71 models AND the rulebook, without needing to buy any supplements like a codex or a codex supplement. $200 for GW got me... well the Rulebook, Codex, and maybe 2 boxes of Paladins for Grey Knights (totaling 10 models), which isn't even able to be fielded as is.
Yeah, the value proposition for Warhammer 40k right now just can't compete with a lot of other systems. Not to mention that the state of the game is in a really rough spot right now too :(
I am reminded of Sargent Baker, a song by Primus, the chorus of which goes: I will rape your personality, Pummel with my own philosophy, Strip you of your self integrity, And make all just a bit like me! RIGHT LEFT RIGHT And this try feels like what GW is now doing, a friend of mine that is an incredible painter and someone that can convert models brilliantly had one his miniatures disallowed from a GW tournament because they couldn't identify their own products. He now refuses to go to any more GW events. I only play Blood Bowl and as I have no interest in attending GW events so happily support companies like Greebo Games, Punga, Gaspez Arts, Wily Miniatures amongst others, they are a return to Independent manufacturers, Wily Miniatures is one bloke in Spain that works out of shed, but I have nothing but positive experiences with them all (and multiple examples of their produce).
I really, really wish that people would figure this out by now: GW doesn't give a damn about their players. All that they care about is their stock price and their revenue. That is it. I think it was when the Primaris Marines dropped that I started to notice what GW was going to do: they will obsolete their miniatures in a regular cycle sort of like how Magic does it. I'd frankly rather just play a bunch of proxies and write "Suppressor" on their base and call it good.
We are truly living in crazy times , since COVID I’ve started throwing together and actually finish painting 500 points 40k lists. So yay new ork’s , 500 points easy , lots of new boys , I paint mostly know exciting. Well no for the all the reasons you stated. I ended up with steel legion , 2 infantry squads , 2 taurox and a tank commander job done. How crazy is it that I was pushed towards old metal models with nice load outs and very diverse tank kits! My mentality has gone from ooooow buy shinny new things to , quick buy the old stuff it’s better , before they sell out and replace it with mono pose nonsense
im really hopeing they do the ork boys like the chaos space marines but with more poseable stuffs, you see the chaos space marine sprews in the dark imperium box set are mono pose ish, i was able to swap heads and some arms without snipping, and the chaos space marine sprew in the seperate box with just them, are diffrent, and allow for shoulder swaps weapon swaps head swaps chest swaps and arm and head poses, with also more wepon options so im hoping they pull a CSM wif dah boyz.
I understand the frustrations of not being able to build an army your way. But, I think the postive in this is that it causes people to reach out to their hobby community for solutions. For example, if I prefer my loadout with shootas I can always find someone else within the community who prefers choppas and theres nothing stopping us from trading. so, I think from a social point of view this could be a good thing in terms of stengthening community social networks.
While I think that encouraging hobbyists to engage with one another and kitbash together etc. is awesome, I'd prefer this to be done through positive actions - i.e. including more bits in boxes! Send lots of bits to hobby stores! (that'd be really cool actually haha) - rather than negative ones. Thanks for your comment!
Yeah, but when you have a current boyz kit that you can make literally thousands of different looking boyz in different poses and the patrol box is filled with 25 models--20 of which are meant to build one specific way (the boyz at least, though the deffkoptas look monopose as well) with a heavy weapons boy standing in the exact same pose modelling two different weapons and a nob doing much the same. Honestly the most exciting, easily customizable, dynamic model in the whole box is the old deff dread. As an ork collector and player I had to ask myself was the patrol worth it? And the answer for me was no. There are better kits out there that don't require me to invest more in the kit than the kit is giving me. I'll probably pick up the deffkoptas, and maybe the warboss in armor individually, and everybody needs at least 4 deff dreads, but the monopose boyz (with their super small heads pre-mounted on their arms) are probably a long-term pass for me--especially if I can't replace their tiny widdle heads, because their preconfigured arms and weapon are going to be in the way.
I don't need boyz and I am sure asf not buying the new beast snaggaboyz nor the new boyz kits for 50+ dollars. Instead I bought the savage orruk boxes which gives 20 and cost the same. I then bought some cyborg bits and some squigs to make my own snagga boyz and squighog riders. I wouldn't mind the new boyz kit if it had 20 boyz with it having at least 8 slugga/8 shoota and the other models either becoming nobz/big shoota/rokkit if you want, and if not allow conversions. At least then you could kit out 2 squads and just make the box cost a little more, maybe 60 - 75 ? I think the beast snagga box is ok, and the box makes sense, cause they only come as slugga boyz + nob with a power snagga only + optional thump gunner. The boyz kit needs a rework, cause nobody runs squads of boyz with mix sets of gunz, at least from what I've seen + being forced to take a big shoota/rokkit/nob...??? Thx to the people whom read this long rant. I'll go jump off a bridge now.
Should've seen this coming with the new Buggy builds being locked in to single loadouts. GW probably wants us to only be able to build 1 thing so they don't need to waste plastic on unused bits.
Great video! Not gonna lie, it took a lot of willpower not to pre order this box on Saturday. I was so exited about the new boyz for so long but I have a gazillion orks with choppas and Sluggas, just need shootas. I have a half dozen deff koptas already and don't want the deff dread. Hopefully the boss in mega armour is released separately some day.
That has annoyed me since launch of the warriors of chaos SC box. Like you said they are good boxes but i wish there was a stand alone for more the warriors themselves. Honestly Still have the old goofy ones from early 2000s but they just dont fit well with aos. Mostly talking about the ones that were hunched over although they do make great models for possessed and such. It would be nice to update the bulk of the army since i didnt like the ones prior that were designed to fit in unit trays better. They looked cool but just felt very stiff to me.
My first Orks came from the Mutant bag GW released along with the Eye of Terror Codex. My Lost and Damned Mutants died in droves due to their Firearm ' Gets Hot' rule. So I painted my first 120 Orks. Looking forward to re basing 150 on 32s as they look better. Oh, and to use them in games of Xenos Rampant. Edit. PS You missed Malarkey! I mean, c'mon man, you know the thing.......
Might be tinfoil hatty of me, but there's 6 boyz with shootas in the Combat Patrol since there's 2 sprues. What other recently-released multi-part Ork infantry kit has 6 spare slugga-choppa arms because of the 6 special weapons you can equip them with? 🤔
For your codex video, be sure to mention that there is no difference between the regular Ork dex and the Special Edition outside of some minor cosmetic tweaks. Same page count, same art, same information....a 30$ difference. Mind blowing. Crazier even that people pay for that trash. A book that is almost twice as expensive as the regular book with no additional anything.
This is how they’ve done limited edition codexes for years now. And nobody is forcing you to buy the LE when you can just have the regular version and be totally ok. If the LE version at +$30 price tag was literally the ONLY version available... that’d be different. I’m certainly not interested in ever getting the limited edition, so the fact that it exists *for people who do choose to buy it* has absolutely no effect on me whatsoever.
I remember being disgusted when they started changing the quantity of models in blisters to maximise waste. Back then it was moving from 5 aspect warriors to 3, meaning you had to get 12 to field 10. (I'm old, this was a very long time ago) Now that seems positively generous.
Orks in 40K have always been treated as a joke. These aliens are supposed to be an existential threat to the Galaxy and yet lore has them constantly acting like morons, as if being clownish and idiotic is menacing. At least they don’t look like circus clowns like they did in Rogue Trader/2nd Ed.
Think about it. If models are no longer physically customizable then painting them will be how people can personalize them. And who is willing to sell you all types of painting supplies?
Oh boy. As a fellow Orkz player and lover ever since 2008, I have A LOT to say about these guys. Anybody who's seeing my profile picture and name, and wants to know what another Ork Player thinks, you have been warned. TLDR: Not worth it imho, and I would sooner scan the parts and fix them with a 3d printer than buy multiple boxes. now lets see: Monopose. The largest sin with these new Boyz. The entire Orkz player base is kitbash incarnate. it's part of The Orks lore and character to take anything and everything, put it together haphazardly, and make it a part of their army so that NO two armies look the same. No two armies have the same "personality". reducing that ability or the "illusion" of that ability is a HUGE way to kill how many of these actually sell before the scalpers get them. However we all know GW doesn't care about the scalper/whale problem since it does fit their profits and actually supports something Discourse Miniatures discussed in a recent video, the Fear of Missing Out. If i recall it is the "Games Workshop Are EXPLOITING Players Using Video Game Tactics" video. The sprues. The sprues themselves coming as a mixed unit is also a big sin. NOONE runs any Orkz unit as a mixed unit, you go all in on either shooting or chopping because you're REWARDED for it. especially with Boyz. Now sure you can make an Orkz ARMY that's mixed with ranged and melee and even some psychic, hell thats reccomended, but the only time you're going to make a boyz unit thats some shooty and some choppy, is if you decide to merge two beat up Boyz squads into one mob.... atleast I think that's still a rule right now. The models look nice and the beast snaggas too! but something still seems... "off". they look closer to AOS' high fantasy style than the "grim dark future" perspective we've seen and heard these Orkz are. Orkz are a race that constantly fights, even among itself, yet even among these boyz theres no cuts or missing fingers or bruises or what not. Sure, while The Beast Snaggas are going to be perfect for Snakebite Klans they also feel a bit off. all in all the models are great but look to clean (yes this can be fixed by the player along with other complaints, but i'll get to that. not gunna dog on the paintjob either especially about the skin, do i think whoever painted them used the same tone we use for grots? sure, but thats paint, that's the easiest fix.) The customization. I guess this could be included in the monopose bit but this is more related than the same subject... where are all the heads? where's all the helmets? where's the guns the and axes and bits and bobs galore! again, we're a faction that prides ourselves on the individual personality and customization of our armies. The Dice. This is a short comment but those are the saddest ork dice i've ever seen, a child could make better ork dice. hell, i could give them for not even a tenth of the cost gw is pushing if i made them, and i wouldn't just be selling "green dice but the six is a Goffz skull", fuck sake. Price. I remember a time when models, even parts and bits, could be bought separately and in bags for really cheap. that was a LIFESAVER for us Orkz players because it allowed us, a horde army, not to sacrifice our damn life savings just to play the lads. As the prices got higher that suddenly went away for no reason, models that we need are also locked into other boxes for NO reason, it's only NOW do we finally get plastic deffkoptas outside of Hellsreach, *and they're damn near the exact same models, and they're stuck in another box.* I'm sick of that, I'm sick of not being able to buy the newest models on their own months or even years after their announcement, but hey it makes GW more money so why would they stop even though being more consumer friendly would net them more pay in the long term... you know they're going to jack the price high too on the regular boyz box for these new models if they ever come out but right now you have to fork, in the US, $140 or $50 if you wanted just Beast Snagga boyz... but hey, Discorse Miniatures mentioned that you'd have to buy ten of these combat patrols just to make a full 30 mob of choppas or shootas, so i hope you're ready to fork $1,400 DOLLARS! YEAH THATS FUCKING FINE ITS NOT LIKE WE ORKS KITBASH AND DO EVERYTHING ELSE TO ALSO SAVE MONEY!.... and don't get me on the codex covid. Covid didnt hit GW hard, they filled their bills from that problem literally in the MONTH that lockdown started for them, they make more money and standing than OIL COMPANIES. they don't get an excuse like that, let alone a YEAR after it started, they've had plenty of time to do this right if they wanted it to be a "starter" kit. But they didn't, and we should not give them any space or mercy on that. I doubt this WAS supposed to be a starter kit, GW is known for reducing the cost it takes to make models but jacking the price up, and since they're trying to net the mythical "wider audience" they're going to do this to ALL of the armies to make it "easier" for people who didn't like the world or even the game to begin with, it's another step of them leaving tabletop behind and turning more into something like Marvel or Disney where they sell the franchise in my honest opinion. and like Discourse Miniatures mentioned, SLAVED OF DARKNESS! Now that's plenty to read and I'm sure many people will go "just use greenstuff and move the limbs" or "guess the orks forgot how to customize", it's not that we didn't, it's the fact that's it's becoming more expensive and tedious to do so, like DM said, GW is purposfully removing quality of life choices for the customer to sell extra plastic at high prices. if i have to cut, stuff, mold, kit, and everything else to every knew ork model....where do you think i GET the stuff to do that? probably a place that GW has a finger in give or take. it's not that i NEVER had to do that previously like i said, it's that i have to do it MORESO to make models i like..... so instead im saying this: if i ever get these models? i'm going to 3d print parts, if i ever get these models, i'm going to 3d print the models again THEMSELVES that actually better arms and heads and bodies for customization. Like i'm going to go into the printer and make all the heads separate fromt he torso, all the arms, the legs, the guns, EVERYTHING! so i can pose them the way I WANT and do that over and over and over again, plus i'm going to do the same with the bitz, the little detail things either on the orks or that can be glued on. that reduces how much cutting i have to do, how much greenstuff i need to buy, and how many imperfections i need to hide with my painting. SPEAKING OF fuck gw for saying "no you can't use printed parts". if you make them from gw stock i doubt anyone will tell after you clean and paint them AND...they can't fucking stop me or anyone and i encourage that people push that. i would actually not mind if gw just went into the printing market and sold spools and capsules of the stuff we NEED let alone digital files to do it. until than and into the future? i'm just gunna use the old boyz and models, they're LEAGUES better, not in detail like the new models sure. But if i came down to quality, number, versatility, customization, character, PRICE!? yeah...they still outdo the new boyz.
Orks orks orks Also, my first dive into warhammer was with the Island of blood box, it was quite a bummer when i realized that if i wanted more swordmasters of hoeth, either i was stuck with super old sculpts of elves that look like they had a bit too many lembas bread and their helmets can barely contain their cheeks. Or buy another island of blood box and get 8 models because the command part of the unit is useless if you want to bulk it up. Then i realized that people used them as chaff in game, so i bought white lions instead 😂. One thing i do resent is that gw is making their kits increasingly aggressive against kitbashing, i mean, you can do it, but if you're not good at sculpting you're gonna have a bad time getting decent results
As of this writing (March 2022), the old Ork Boyz kit is still sold alongside the new Boyz. Because I guess that while GW decided to release the new Boyz on their own, they decided _against_ actually adding to that kit, such that you might get more weapon options. You're just expected to mix and match between new and old models. Which isn't great for someone looking for a force with a cohesive aesthetic. Or someone who doesn't like the old sculpt. Personally, I LOVE the perma-twerk Orks, so I'm not complaining. But it's just weird that they've done it this way.
@@DiscourseMinis I feel ya. A lot of great hobbies have been ruined by corporate profit maximization strategies :/ Micro-transactions, gambling, pre-order bonuses and seasonality in video games etc. Anyways, have a good one. Cheers.
With what GW is doing with the new mini I'm getting scared of what the T'au gonna look like, because if the crisis have "forced weapons" all the T'au player gonna be... well more angry than a khorn space marine, the main advantage of the crisis is the variety of ways that you can make them
The alpha GW move would be to equip them with like melee weapons and then sell the pulse rifles on an upgrade sprue. Insist, of course, on WYSIWYG. Oh, think of the money!
I doubt Crisis Suits will get an update. They already have fairly recent plastic models which sell well. And T'au are a xenos race lol. If GW update Tau it will be special characters like Darkstrider (sell well - people will buy new plastic character with new codex), or alien auxillaries like Kroot (old and in need of update) or a new battlesuit (people love dem gundams and will buy).
I run my Ork boyz in mixed units and everyone is telling me it's a bad choice, but I don't know what to do about it now apart from just saying "ignore what you see, these are all the same" to my opponent. I don't know, I'll keep testing it out and see.
It's all about how optimal you want to be, I suppose. But in terms of actual play, you can always do what you suggest: just clarify for your opponent your load out. Is it not possible to just bundle most of the shootas together and most of the sluggas together?
@@DiscourseMinis That may be an option in the future but I currently don't have enough shootas for one unit, and I'm not planning on buying any new minis for a long time. Still have to play my first tournament this month though and maybe they'll kick my butt hard enough to make me change my modus operandi.
Well said. Great video. The tactics this company uses have always been unnecessarily greedy, but it seems like the last decade has shown that their may be no depth they are unwilling to sink, to get our money. GW Leadership is Like: "Behold the Underminer! I am always beneath you, but nothing is beneath me! I hereby declare war on peace and happiness! Soon, all will tremble before me! " -The Underminer's monologue from The Incredibles (2004)
As a fantasy player of old, I have been dreading the new releases of older armies for years. With every new sculpt that ends up being mono pose click fit monstrosity as the main units, my gaming soul dies a little every time. Now they are doing it on the 40K side, and I end up calculating how much of my pile of shame that I can sell on E-Bay in order to afford a new 3D printer.
I bought a complete set-up (printer, cleaner, and drying, gloves) for my mars 3d printer for $400. Best choice I ever made.
I was dreading new orks for years as well... Know that you are not alone...
@@kausalkraken5951 $400 is but a remnant of what I have still on sprues. Which Mars model did you get?
Love how GW keep on charging so much for models, then you see Frostgrave who do 20 models for £19.00 and you can mix and match between boxes for cultists or free company militia
Yeah, I've heard a lot of really good things about Frostgrave. I'm actually really interested in it!
@@DiscourseMinis I was chatting with a friend the other day, for around £60 you could get 48 models from frostgrave (40 soldiers either mark 1 or 2, and 8 female wizards) compared to the GW £60 offering of a Combat Patrol set
Yah and you can split that between two players.
Also you can mix and match everything, heads, weapons etc so you could get 80 bodies for near £75 and none of them would look identical
Even better, frostgrave's core rules say "idk use whatever minis you want, bottle caps, who cares man, enjoy my game"
The more unreasonable, anti-consumer and greedy GW gets, the more people will embrace 3D printing.
This x100. GW was the scrappy young company trying to build an empire. Now, they have ruled over this empire for years, and in the last two years stock wise at least has have been the most valuable they have ever been.
Now they are at the top, they are facing a challenge of a major change to the hobby. Unwilling to change their business model as they have "established" a price point for their product, they are railing HARD against any threat to their IP. From fan made projects to 3D printing, they are trying to kill any alternative that will affect their cash flow.
I don't think they understand no king rules forever, especially if their kind forgets about the plebs that pay the bills. If a game like World of Warcraft can be toppled, Warhammer can fall as well.
GW: "We will cull your personal creativity and choices and force you to pay even more to us, what you gonna do about it?"
Me: Laughing in my Frostgrave gnollish style xD
Hah! Yeah, I think they're alienating a lot of customers. The problem is: if they continue to monetize their existing players so aggressively, will their bottom line notice?
@@DiscourseMinis Who knows what goes in those corporate minds? Sometimes, I feel like they live by "Only fools think about future!" motto - they want a lots of money right now, and are intended to milk it even at the expense of, as you said, alienating customers and losing a long-term support. But hey, maybe this will help a lot of people to at last find out that GW and their games aren't the only ones at the market. I mean, it worked on me at least - I started to be interested in "lower-brand" games (starting of course with my favourite Frostgrave) after being fed up with GW shenenigans and losing my view of them as at least semi-dependable provider (the latest "copyright noose" to the neck of creativity and constant changing of gameplay, cough-cough-Kill Team, was the last straw for me)
You know maybe it's a good thing warhammer fantasy was killed of so now at least it won't share the fate of 40k.
@@williammccroskey2186 The death of the game that really got GW started was when I quit in disgust. Gone over to OPR just this month after a long exile in historical games land.
@@FelixstoweFoamForge I only recently learned of fantasy death cause I just got into total war warhammer during the start of covid and was sad to see such a unique world go (although after reading how some went out like throg peeing on sigvald made me laugh and was almost worth it) but the one bright side (not aos unless you like it which it's not as bad just had worst starting) was if fantasy kept going it could have ended up exactly like 40k now.
But for fantasy I'm just making my own made up world in my head and it all started cause I wanted to put warplock jazzelies on terradons and now it's became a world in a few days. Still writing stuff down but yeah will never be like the fantasy world.
Another great video by Discourse! I think what's important to remember here is that GW is implementing several layers of marketing arrogance. They genuinely believe (at least in the board room) that you will be so hyped for the new minis. that you'll happily buy multiple boxes to get all the shooters you'll need, even if half the sprues are tossed into a shoe box and go completely wasted and unused.
They prey on the basest of our consumerist qualities. First, that all your hundreds of old Ork models from previous editions of 40k and Kill Team are now useless and you MUST get the new ones in order to be happy playing the game. Therefore it doesn't matter how the news ones are packaged in a way that rips you off, you'll buy whatever it takes to be happy in your quest to always have the newest stuff. And they also plan on enough gamers being so hopelessly emotionally connected to their products that they simply won't buy minis. from another company simply because it's "not GW." And I hate to say it, but hundreds of thousands of gamers out there do exactly that. They buy GW without even considering the alternatives.
GW's marketing goal is to keep you in a constant state of perceived dissatisfaction. That's the key. A perpetual, constant state of dissatisfaction. That is, the last thing you bought should be of no interest any more, but the thing that is about to come out should be the most awesomest thing you have ever seen in your life and you had better order it before you miss out!
To a certain degree it's not even about the quality of the models. Or even about the models at all! Or the game. It's about the cycle of what is ABOUT to come out. You notice that GW is like a Schizophrenic? When something is about to be released, the hype is on the level of a f'n life-saving medicine? But almost immediately after something new comes out, the level of care about it plummets to less than zero? They're either at an 11 or at a -35 on the Spinal Tap dial.
Look at things like Sons of Behemat. How much do you hear about them in Warhammer Community now? It's crickets. GW treats their models and games like fast food but with gourmet prices.
Thank you for the comment! I really do agree with your points. It's all about the next thing, forget about what we've released, lets keep going! You can really see it in the codices and the rush to try and convince players to splurge out on the new factions. I think you've really hit the nail on the head with the feeling of a perpetual state of dissatisfaction. Well, I'm sick of it haha!
I’ve had to drop 40k like a hot potato.
Ive been waiting for an Emperors Children codex for 4 years thinking gw would be dividing chaos marines into their sub-factions reasonably quickly.
Now I’m inclined to think that if Emperors Children do ever hit shelves, they’ll be overpriced, mono-pose, gimmicky and have unfinished rules that will need immediate tweaking.
Considering also the likely 2 maybe 3 year lifespan of core rules editions and codex’s that ultimately determine the effectiveness and playability of an army.
I don’t mind doing the homework to learn new rules but not before every game because another faq/points adjustment has altered a poorly thought through game between the weeks when I get to play.
I’ll be focusing on other games, or just collect to display if nobody in my group wants to try something new, I’m that fed up with the shenanigans!
May I interest you in Stargrave? It's not an army game, but I like it better than Kill Team (though I've only almost played that), it's miniature agnostic, and it's cheaper than a single 40k codex.
@@mycatistypingthis5450 I’d prefer to go small skirmish rather than army scale games, that way I don’t have a wardrobe, 3 display cases and a bookcase full of obsolete gw figures.
I’ll search your suggestion, thanks
@@johnwalton287 If you like solo games, 5 parsecs from home is fantastic, any mini and world building that is great
@@johnwalton287 For skirmish you could try Deadzone from Mantic Games, it's pretty nice although it does tend to use specific terrain. Kings of War: Vanguard is also excellent, if you're into fantasy.
Literally the same for me dude. Just swap out Emperors Children for World Eaters. I just have zero enthusiasm for this game any more. I wanna walk away completely but I feel bad cause I made kind of a pact with a friend when we both got into it 3 or so years ago. He didnt want to pull the trigger on this super expensive hobby unless I was going in on it with him and now we've both spent several hundred dollars each. I feel kinda obligated to him.
Even on the old 40k "Start collecting" boxes, to me, contained better priced, better value, contents. When I collected Imperial Guard, it was more economical to buy two, or three start collectings. Hell, even the Necron Combat Patrol isn't too bad! It's mostly stuff you'll use. But the flyer means you may only -need- to buy the box once.
I think you're right in saying the combat patrols play to a younger audience. And my Penny Chew to add to that is that the combat patrol box incentivises what me and my mate call the "arms race" between friends. There's enough to -start- but the next units can, and will, swing games within a small gaming group, which stimulates more purchasing ...and then we're at the point of "the deeper wallet wins" More so than the better player.
My opinion is the Necron rollout was done better. They were in a BIG NEW STARTER set, then came out as individual boxes THEN got their combat patrol (kinda like sisters...but that a whole other bag of canned worms!)
Also... heartbroken that your type includes football hooligans xD
This is a really interesting point. I’ve never thought about the “arms race” potential of the boxes, but on reflection that is definitely something that has occurred in my own experience. It happens with a lot of purchases, but the Combat Patrols really play into it.
I am totally agreed on the Necron release being done better! My personal hope would be for releases to come with a Box Bundle that comes at a discount, but then all other models being released alongside that. As such players would the choice of picking up what they want. It’s crazy to me that this is something that has to be fought for.
Ive started 3d printing everything. Yes, even the ones that "Violate their IP". I'm so over this company's BS. Not even disney is this bad.
Not being able to equip 20/20 boyz with sluggas and choppas makes the combat patrol box kind of useless to me. I was going to get two despite already having three Deffdreads but I will be giving it a miss now. I really like the old boyz kit anyway. Geedubs, you fool of a Took.
Totally! I really like the bundled boxes, but even these are being made increasingly less fun to buy...
I'm completely jaded with the idea of a simple release of new tyranid anything, if they are going to do this to Orks, arguably one of the most popular factions, how do you think they'll treat nids or tau or guard? Not even space marines are exempt from this crap.
This is the same shit they pulled with the other special characters when 9th came out where they shoved in extra troops or tabks that nobody wanted. This isn't new, but it also shouldn't be standard practoce just because it's been happening for a while
Yeah, exactly! Games Workshop have been at this for a while, but this box represents that fact that it's going to be even worse going further if they can get away with it.
Going to disagree, in 10th edition ork boys squads will be 3 shootas, 5 choppas, one special weapon, and a nob. To get them in 30 repeat the formation twice. If you think I am wrong look at what they did to Deathguard and the mechanicus.
That'll be super unfortunate for my current collection! :
Yeah, when they released 9th ed death guard codex the army I have been using for about 20 years changed quite drastically. I've now basically jus boxed them up, put them in the garage and noped out of 40k after over 20 years of playing it 😅 I can't afford new armies as I've been priced out by GW and then they change almost everything about my one, main army 😅
@@bertmc1365 save for 3d printer and cure machine if got the space. Its a no brainer for a hobbyist. If you just game look for a new company or see if the open play stuff works/own rules. Sadly gw jyst doesn't make things for customers
@@jakea3950
FDM printer for larger vehicles and minis, recast for smaller ones.
@@DiscourseMinis Which is the idea. GW has been using its rules to blackmail people into buying more models for decades.
I'm enjoying this content discourse. I've always had a soft spot for 40k whilst simultaneously thinking gw are corporate crack dealers.
Haha thank you! I'm glad you've enjoyed :D
Perhaps off topic, but may we offer our congratulations on you executing the most radical (and successful) pivot we've seen any wargaming channel make in a very a long while. Your editorial rants are entertaining, informative and always worth a listen, even if we're not up on the latest GW releases. Rock on, you rebel you.
Hahaha thank you so much for the kind words!
I always said that when GW update the Ork Boyz they would be mono pose, shock horror I was right.
Unfortunately you called it, then :(
@@martineasterman5170 It work with primaris because you need less of them in squads/ of one type. When you build an army who needs 90 boys... You will cry from all the doubles/Triples monoposes guys you get in a single squad.
@@sportyeight7769 also space marines are far easier to make distinct even with the same pose, given that you can whack some gear on, paint half a helmet white for one lad or some personalised spike-patterns on another, use a transfer or design from another chapter to indicate having earned the respect of particular allies, and most enjoyable of all, by giving your active war zone combatants some SERIOUS battle damage, scarred plate and scorch-marks that make the marines feel a lot less like pristine poster boys and more like actively-enduring badasses.
With Orks, though, when you’re running at least twice as many in models and there’s only so much a few different colours or trinkets can do… the same faces and poses really begin to stick out, and it’s hard to do anything about that :/
Thanks for your impression and opinion. But I have to confess, I’m now even more tempted to kitbash as much as possible out of the new boys. Mixing them with the beastsnaggas should help a bit, but I’m really excited how much work it is, to mix them with the old multiparty kits. Heck, I’m so old, kitbashing meant to me, cutting damn metal minis in pieces, pin every single piece and hope it works, after spending a whole day on only one mini :D So as long as it’s plastic, I‘m not worried. But your point is right. The multipart kits where kind of the gold standard for a loooong time and especially for horde armies, there should always be the option for simple customization.
That's fair!! And I can remember working with plastic and metal pieces in the one kit and... yikes, I will say I don't miss it xD
I would suggest my fellow ork players/hobbyist look into buying a jewler's saw for $10-$15 on Amazon and get their kit bash on. A jewler's saw is like a very fine bladed coping-saw designed to cut curved scroll work patterns in metal when making jewlery. I like a jewler's saw a bit more than the more ubiquitous hobby/razor saw because the jewler's saw has a very narrow blade that allows me to follow the contours of a model, where as a razorsaw is primarily only good for straight cuts. I originally bought my jewler's saw to modify hotwheels for gaslands but I've had success using it to customize ork models. I recently used it to separate the giant skull from the shoulder of a AoS Orruk Megaboss in order to kitbash into a 40K warboss. The end result was a shoulder that only needed a little bit of simple putty work to look like new and a badass dragonlike skull bit I can mount to the front of a buggy/vehicle. Side-cutters or the razorsaw would have required me to choose to do significant damage to either the skull or the shoulder in order to separate the two.
@@paulstallings1177 Heck, it's just a wrist... snip and file. ;)
Its really sad when the memes from a few years ago have become reality
"Here's an idea, we _double_ the prices and _halve_ the amount of models! That way every model is worth twice as much to the player, and everyone wins!"
100% This deal is getting worse all the time!
"I don't agree with them politically but they have nice tailors" I lost it
They turn heads!
Thank you. Just thank you for talking about the StD start collecting problem.
Honestly cathartic to hear.
Haha thank you! It's been bugging me for so long. So frustrating! Glad you got something out of it
I mean I imagine it going to be like the shadow spear chaos marines where they have this kit and another multipose kit comes out later
I hope that's the case, but GW should have let players know if so! Instead they've opened preorders without clarifying that point, because obfuscating whether different models will be available in future serves their bottom line.
I don't understand GW's thought process. Plenty of people, myself included would still be happy to buy their minis at a higher than average price since they are some of the best looking, but not when they're doubling the price and cutting the amount of minis per box sometimes compared to other 28mm wargames. They could have awesome mono-pose for elite units and things like that while still having multi-pose for basic infantry. They could appeal to everyone a bit but they just don't.
And who is all the monopose even for? The only people I ever see happy with all the monopose-ization are space marine players who know how easy it is to cut off the arm slots on primaris and basically still build them as a multi-pose kit.
I just built the commandos from the Octarius box and while they are monopose, the poses offered are so much more dynamic and gorgeously detailed than the current plastic orks. While yes, the simple bits swaps possible between the various plastic ork kits, do have their advantages; in order to achieve anything more dynamic than a raised or lowered arm or body twisted to one side or the other already required significant cutting and putty work. Maybe it's because I harken back from the good "bad" old days of the early 2000's when ork players had to kitbash half the codex entries. There were no models for the battle wagon, scarboyz, 'ardboyz, there were only two metal tankbusta sculpts, a few old 2nd ed metal commandos sculpts, you either used the "somewhat charming" but rather lacking Gorka/Morka vehicles or scratch built/converted your own from other kits; we had to convert them all, and I still love that 3rd ed codex. It was the amount of customization and creativity displayed by ork players of that era that set them apart from the players of all the other armies. I fear these young ork players (post 2008) have grown soft and complacent (he says tongue lodged firmly in cheek). Buy a jewler's saw, some plastic card, some scuplting putty/greenstuff, and get to work. Remember where we as ork players came from, da old wayz iz best!
Solution: Get 3d printer and 3d scanner. Buy one box of boys/combat patrol. Scan sprues with scanner. PROFIT
"nickel and dime" does not even apply here at the cost of these things. its more like "fiver & tenner"
I have given up on GW doing things with their customers in mind instead of their bottom line. I am thankful there are so many other options. If you are upset with what GW is doing, stop buying their overpriced shit.
So a lot of very valid criticisms, but I think the way GW are going with these new boyz is to have mixed groups of the unit and just say "these boyz all have shootas". Yes it's less WYSIWYG, but it's also way easier to change your loadouts/klans.
Want more shootas today? Run them all as shootas. Need more melee tomorrow? Just run them as choppas.
To be entirely fair, there is no one better solution.
To have options you either need to buy multiple boyz kits. Or have one mixed kit and be less immersive. You could even argue that the community just accepting that boyz squads are mixed now could save a lot of players money.
What would you rather?
Buy/build/paint 2 kits so you have one shootas and one choppas?
Or buy/build/paint one kit and choose what you want them to run on the fly?
Neither option here is wrong to me.
I think this brushes up the general expectation from the community that the models will be WYSIWYG. And this is something that Games Workshop actively encourages. My honest answer is that I'd like to see players be given the choice of what to bring, and for that to be reflected in the sprues. I think you're right though, now that these are the sprues going forward, I think players will just have to say: "all these boyz are shootas". The problem is - what if you have one Shoota Squad and one Slugga Squad? You don't get enough Orks in the box to make even divides.
@@DiscourseMinis Yeah it sucks. If you have two squads and wanted to divide I would put the 6 shootas in one squad to at least make it a *little* bit more WYSIWYG.
It’s more of a “well I’m not going to buy more boxes to make it 100% so GW will have to deal with it not being WYSIWYG” kind of situation for me since we aren’t going to have a good solution unless GW either keeps the old boyz around or brings out a new box of “shoota boyz”.
This GW malpractice has tradition. Back in the 90s the Space Marine game (early Epic) provided Eldar players with a War Host box. Upon buying two of these boxes you could field each Eldar unit for at least a single time. There was however an exception. For fielding Dark Reapers and Howling Banshees you would need FOUR boxes. Safe to say I didn´t cave in and played every game without those top-tier units.
Many years later the Death Guard codex was released for the first time. Having CSM painted in a green/brown fashion it would have been a great opportunity to pick this book up. After reading a couple of unit entries it became apparent that DG terminators can´t be equipped with power fists thus making my models ILLEGAL. It was no great surprise to put this book back into the store´s shelf and leaving the place while chuckling at GW´s shenanigans.
During the last years I have mainly frequented GW stores to buy paints. However after those idiotic price tags ( especially"Cash Wastes") this company has more and more become anathema to me. Looking forward to buy Vallejo paints in the future thus getting rid of GW for good.
If I played Orks, I would kitbash the new ones with old ones and run them as the new boys
I think that's going to definitely be a good strategy. But they will probably be replacing the old kit at some stage. And besides, this way GW have gotten you to buy the Combat Patrol box AND a squad of Orks. Win win for them!
@@DiscourseMinis which is exactly what I did this week when I saw the new sprues - BUT if I build 3 shooter boys from that to add to the combat patrol I have a 10 ork shooter squad, PLUS if I swap the 2 forced hvy wpn orks from the combat patrol for sluggas from the old box, take the hvy wpn from the old box, add the one rokkit kommando from the kill team I also just bought and convert a new ork to be a kommando instead, convert one more to be a rokit guy with some spares (deep breath, bear with me here), I then have a squad of tankbustas, PLUS I can then convert the remaining old orks/or some new orks by sticking spare space marine jump packs / random engine bits on them so I have a squad of stormboyz, so I then don't buy those kits, and... maybe it works out? Until I can physically move them from one unit to the other I can't quite be sure....
@@JudgeGlanton Hahaha! I admire the dedication xD
@@JudgeGlanton The problem is that the patrol boyz are push-fit (with holes and pegs and very specific configurations), unlike the old boyz and say the loota/burna kit, or the stormboyz kit, where you could easily swap arms, heads and weapons, without much in the way of files, saws, greenstuff, or sculpting skill required. Plus, the new orks heads are too small, and they have foreheads now, and somehow less expression. This might not be a push for some folks, but for others (those more focused on collecting, building and painting than playing) this might be a push out the door.
The old blackreachbox came also with cheaper monopose boys. Maybe we get a modular boysbox in the future. The kill teams commandos have options, too.
Ork upgrade sprues. Calling it.
In fact. Upgrade sprues in general. Monopose miniatures are the perfect way to lock you into upgrade sprues. I should know. I'm a Necromunda player.
Yeah, you're totally right. Upgrade sprues are... very frustrating to me as a player and hobbyists. It's such a nickel and dime scheme. Gotta love DLC! :
Necromunda gangs have a ton of options natively. I don't usually buy GW stuff, but my Escher sets have outfutted quite a few other models.
@@mycatistypingthis5450 If you're running a pretty vanilla gang they're fine out out of the box. As soon as you start getting the spicy stuff off the trading post and want to run WYSIWYG then get your wallet out.
I don’t mind upgrade sprues for Necromunda because realistically how many gangers are you going to be running anyways? And a plastic upgrade sprue is so much more welcome than the resin FW weapons packs. Two gang boxes and an upgrade weapons sprue and you’re basically set and good to go.
Knowing GW this monopose kit is their plan for the start collecting boxes in the future, so that people who get a bunch of models in a "discount box" don't baulk at the price of their main miniature boxes, so if people want to make an army from multiples of the box, they will have a lot of obvious duplicates, and that leans quite handily into peer pressure and more excuses for the ridiculous "Poorhammer" slur to be chucked out - shaming people into buying the more expensive kits.
I think gw are going monopose to screw over third party bitz makers. Its harder for them to sell conversion kits if the gw models can only go together one way.
@@chucklapine6782 I'm sure that's part of it, but I doubt it's one motivating factor. There'll be a few reasons and they're only thinking of the benefits to them and having absolute indifference or ignorantly not knowing the costs to consumers.
They doing the same crap in AOS too. Every year you need the generals handbook to play Multiplayer, and every year now they have in there the scenarios and new rules you have to play by. Well this year its based on Monsters. You get special bonus's in the scenarios if you have monsters. This makes you want to buy monsters. Next year will be a different type of unit they say. Nickle and Dime is the the perfect term for GWS, and that is why people hate them so much.
Yeah, it's just a naked attempt to incentivize buying certain models. They should do it in the honest way: make the models worth buying on their own!
AoS has been doing PLENTY of scummy things to get people to buy centerpiece kits. there were s tier competitive battalions that required 4-5 of the same $60-140 kit like FEC and Slaanesh not that long ago. Sons of behemat required gw to make only ONE kit! technically its own army release
AOS General handbook was way better than what we got in 40k. The 40k CA 2021 was literally 40K CA2020, only the secondaries got changed and everything else is the same. I can't believe they are charging us $50 bucks for that shit. They could have just printed an FAQ and be done with it but no... they had to milk us dry
Not just slave to darkness.... I'm still waiting for separate Venomcrawlers and obliterators.
Yeah, it's become endemic...
There is so much to be happy about with the recent Ork releases. But also sooooo much to be sad about.
Can't disagree with anything you said in this video.
You continue to speak the truth D.
Thank you! Glad you've enjoyed :D
I had this difficulty with Necromunda. So many of the guns cam on the sprue. The whole point of the game is about individual equipment for individual gangers.
Orks for my first love when it came to Warhammer 40K, I've always loved them, but it's baffling to me to see them going the way of push fit, monopose models. And it's baffling to me that these are being released on the proverbial coattails of the octarius set that featured a stellar multi-part kit for the Kommandos LOADED with options.
In my mind the only excuse possible for this is what was mentioned prior, that these figures were meant for some sort of starter box that had to be scrapped due to the pandemic.. it's the only rational thought that can come to my mind because I truly cannot imagine GW being 'that' awful...
But then again, this is GW..
Yeah, these definitely feel a bit like odd-ones out, I hope that they get more customization if GW intend on replacing the older Ork boys box...
Yeah, the single pose models started with the Primaris, but I got a first hand account when I bought my Sisters of Battle. No options, everything has the same poses, one squad does not feels different as another, little to no bits left- and those who remains can only fit in one maybe two model pose...and coming from the Guard/Empire, where I got more bits than I'll ever need in each and every kit, it's a shock to say the least.
And I agree making a box set for a horde army in which half your models are into a fixed type that's not always intresting (Dakka over Choppa every day!) or can even fit with your army configuration or even how you'd like to play 'your' orks.
Yeah... I just hate when options are removed! Especially when it results in less dakka :(
They started this crap over a decade ago. This is just the culmination of deliberate steps towards the most rapacious business practices that has infected the tabletop hobby market. As much as I love the setting, concepts, and models, I'm just as done with them as I was 13 years ago when I walked away for good. Not that I haven't been tempted by the plastic candy, but after watching them devolve from the cool 'hobbies by hobbyists' vibe in the 80s to the cash extraction vehicle that they are today, I am happy that I moved on. I hope more do the same.
Cash extraction is a really good way to describe them!
We are slowly going the way of the 3D printing world.
If I was an Ork player, which I am not, I have to admit, I would by one box of the new Boyz, then just mix them up in units of the old Boyz. Orks vary in size after all!
I still remember those imperial knight armiger models with two different styles but they came in different boxes of twos and you wanted to play three... So you had to buy two boxes of each to have three matching ones... GW has been doing these schemes on their customers for 30+ years but in the last five it's just become way too much. I have no motivation to play their games between this and just keeping up with rules etc. After 20ish years im done with at least the game aspect for now.
What’s disappointing is the lack of interchangeable parts for example as a guard player we can choose any weapon we like be it a lasgun, flamer or even a rocket launcher due to the standardized bodies and the arms are simply attachments vs the new kits which have locked poses ie running or jumping vs a marine jumping but wield a chainsword and storm shield or what not
Yeah definitely, I wish there was more support for mix and matching in the box :(
I urge all newer hobbyists to embrace kitbashing from the start. I decided to get into 40k with an Indomitus box. I'd been using AoS models for years, but decided to jump in just to give 40k a try. I bought the box and the Salamanders upgrade spues just to open the box and find out that the primaris marines in the box weren't designed for the upgrades since they were all monopose. Well, I'm not having that. I got out the hobby knife, chopped the shoulders off, and put on my Salamanders pauldrons. Snip, off with the captain's hand. I don't care if he's supposed to have a power sword. I can play him that way, but his power sword is looking like a bad-ass hammer. Get that damn shield off the ground, mount it to your back and run into battle with both hands equipped. I play Orks too, so it looks like I'm going to be going down the same road with any new boyz models I get. Hell, I've already started bringing Ironjawz models into the fray. For example, the 40k weirdnob is a garbage sculpt, so I use a modified AoS model instead. I, like every other Ork player in the world, build all boyz in a unit to have the same weapon loadout. Looks like I'll be snipping and gluing to get what I want.
I'm looking forward to your video on the codex topic. I think they need to embrace a more lore/art heavy standard for the books and digital downloads for the rules. They can always provide a free app, or simple web interface and then include a one-time code for each model in the box so we can download and keep the rules up to date. The books won't automatically be useless as soon as their published and the players can still play their models they've purchased. I can't wait to hear what all you have to say, I'm sure it will inspire interesting discussion.
For my marines I collect left over parts and either sell them of to someone else who’s lookin for say a bolter or bandelier of shotgun-shells and so on and I have a Marine duel wielding two bolters with a left and right arms from two separate sets
that's really cool!
I didn’t even think about any Of this when I purchased my Adepta Sororitas recently. I bought t two combat patrols. Now I don’t mind what comes in the. I’ll just play whatever cause I’m a casual player. But man I’m kinda rethinking my future with GW. There are allot more games out there that I like that allow me a bit more creative freedom for less money.
This really reinforces my thoughts that we need selective boycotts of GW products. I don't think a total boycott will get us what we want. They'll just assume we're lost customers and focus on newer players and things will get worse. But if we buy the old Boyz along with the new Codex, while refusing to buy this new, inferior Boyz kit, I think it will send a clearer message to them. They'll know we are still customers they can please and get money from with the right products and maybe change the new Boyz to be multi pose.
Good luck with that. I just built the commandos from that Octarius box and while they are monopose, the poses offered are so much more dynamic and gorgeously detailed than the current plastic orks. While yes, the simple bits swaps possible between the various ork kits, has it's advantages; but to achieve anything more dynamic than a raised or lowered arm or body twisted to one side or the other already required significant cutting and putty work. Maybe it's because I harken back from the good "bad" old days of the early 2000's when ork players had to kitbash half the codex entries. There were no models for the battle wagon, scarboyz, 'ardboyz, there were only two metal tankbusta sculpts, a few old 2nd ed metal commandos sculpts, you either used the "somewhat charming" but rather lacking Gorka/Morka vehicles or scratch built/converted your own from other kits; we had to convert them all, and I still love that 3rd ed codex. It was the amount of customization and creativity displayed by ork players of that era that set them apart from the players of all the other armies. I fear these young ork players (post 2008) have grown soft and complacent (he says tongue lodged firmly in cheek). Buy a jewler's saw, some plastic card and some scuplting putty/greenstuff, and get to work. Remember where we as ork players came from, da old wayz iz best!
I cant believe it took me THIS long to find the best channel on youtube?!?! absolutely love your editing style!!!!
Thank you so much! You are very kind!
This is my biggest gripe with the whole primaris range (and I have a lot of gripes) - they are mono-weapon squads, which essentially encourage you to buy more different units to have variable playstyles. The Sprues are there to minimise what GW can give for cost to player
Yessss, exactly! They get very little customization as well to incentivise players to buy their overpriced "upgrade" sprues! Honestly, the Primaris range is pretty indicative of a lot of the modern GW practices
@@DiscourseMinis aye. Plus the bloat to the range. WE have 5 units that are "infiltration based" and then FB and Primaris can't ride each other's transports.....like what?
IMagine if instead of Reivers, Infiltrators @ incurors they were one unit, with variety of weapons. Then they had release Primaris Death Company, Primaris Wolf Scouts & then a unique Primaris for another major faction. immedaitely you cut down on codex bloat and get more flavour
Funny enough... if you think about it... the old kits of ork boys and chaos warriors are illegal to use according to gamesworkshop rules since they said you need to use the new sculpts if you want to play in a tournament. Just a thought
There was also the issue of Chaos havocs having only one chaincannon in the box, forcing you to grab 4 boxes to have a full squad equipped with them
Oh GW looove to do that don't they? I guess this is the logical conclusion
3rd video of yours I watch. Haven't bought any GW boxes in years. But as an old Tyranid player, I can recognise the issue of having to buy multiple boxes for a whole squad. I can still pray myself lucky Tyranid spruces still have some customization option. Great consumer video. 👍
Just call it what it is, "Sleazy to darkness starters box!".
I've been in the hobby since 1988... I gave up on GW when they started making everything monopose.
Back in the day mono kits were for cheap plastic starter boxes and the glorious multi part kits were the "real" kits.
I don't miss GW one bit, especially when this is their new business model.
I don't know I just literally started collecting 40k yesterday (09/13/2021) after years of contemplating it and this is a good starter kit for noobies.
With all this said, I would probably mix in older Orks to satisfy some army/battlepoint requirement...
Yeah it's a great starting point!
I think their intent is eventually to have them run in mixed squads only, which makes it really confusing why they haven't squatted the old kit and changed the rules to match it. Clearly this is the same situation with the beastsnagga boyz. I also think this is a result of their new model designs. The idoneth deepkin have two different infantry options that look almost exactly the same except one has melee weapons and the other has ranged weapons. The way ranged weapons are handled and melee weapons are handled means the monopose arms needed for melee weapons more often than not do not work with the other type of weapon.
They would have to design two different ork boy kits in order to have both shootas and choppas/sluggas under this new system. So instead we get a mixed squad. These technical limitations are not reflected yet in the rules, but they really should be.
I could honestly see it. And in theory I'm not entirely opposed to mixed squads - Orks aren't exactly the most organized - but eesh it'll be a tough transition
The new orks' heads are too small. My beast snaggas all look like they have orkish microcephaly--slightly bigger bodies and tiny wittle heads! They are so small that for the first time you can see their nipples under their jawlines. They just look weird next to the old skool boyz, so I replaced them all with older and appropriate 3rd party heads--and now they look cool and fit in with the other 100 boys I already have. The patrol box boyz makes that even tougher because the sculpts are kinda set with most heads connected to shoulders and chests like pimples, and arms have particular poses that are meant to slot together one way. So the new boyz are a pass for me. I might pick up the warboss in mega armor and I will definitely get a box of deffkoptas (though neither are looking particularly conversion friendly either). And for now I can live with 3 deff dreads. If they come out with a non-push-fit version down the road (even something like the komandos) I might take a look at them again.
The old ork boyz sprues gave you literally thousands of different ways to model your boyz so that no two orks in your WAAAGH! need look or be posed the same with their slap on arms, legs, torsos and heads, the ball-and-socket waists and heads/necks (which itself was absolute genius), faces with actual expressions on them (there's brooding, sullen, snarling, bitey, dumb, and yellin' to name a few). Heck, they even had more hats and hair-squigs! You really didn't have to do much to get your army looking unique. A box (or 6!) of boyz (either the newer 11 boy set or that old 90's 16 boy squad with unattached shootas with grips and trigger guards (so you could hang them on that rack in the back of your pick-up trukk), add a box or two of lootas/burnas, sprinkle in some nobz, and stormboyz, and you were set to build the core of a unique ork army. Going forward though the moment the old boyz are out of stock and the new boyz are the thing (assuming they are the final thing) you are going to be seeing a lot of the same 10 or 12 ork boyz and 10 or 12 beast snaggas over and over and over again, which might work for the tournament crowd, but ork collectors not so much.
"Sorry mate, but da sign on da box says "Big 'ead Bunker" you little pin-head orks wif your newfangled "fore'eads" and such will have to wait for your own club 'ouse. Dis is ours, now zog off!" ~Gobstoppa da Evalastin' Warboss of da Evalastin' WAAAGH!
Huh, I've never focused on the heads actually! Hmmmm... And yeah, Orks should be like THE most varied faction!
For the company that pioneered the plastic minis for fantasy and scifi and then the multi-part minis for non-historical games, the return to less flexible and more mono-pose minis is kind of deplorable.
It's a bizarre trend to me, and I understand it in "starter boxes" but half the joy of the game is building your units as collections of individuals. Every model tells a story! Sucks that it's pre-written so often now.
it would also be cheaper on the manufacturing side to release the models, since it will standardize the sculpts along to line.
The creativity of 40k is dying, more click fit, less customization. I like the Terrain rules in 9th but we used to create our own terrain rules, which you still can but most people will play the GW terrain rules and whats with telling us what board size to play on?
Yup, I totally agree. I'm okay with click fit models existing in starter sets. I think that they're good for new players, but I don't think they should replace the mainline models at all!
@@DiscourseMinis I also wouldn't mind if Hormagaunts / Termagaunts were click fit and monopose, if it made the box cheaper (lol fat chance with GW). They're not really meant to be super customisable anyway, ... and it will look fine when you have 150 of them on the board. Current models are 20 years old and have a design flaw where they overbalance and topple :/
the lore books have really gone down hill too. 40k at least.
Agree about the bundling in the Slaves to Darkness box .... BUT ... I love the warriors and knights, so have bought 4 copies of it and it's cheaper than be buying them separately.
Oh, I really like the models! Just wish they could be bought separately!
I still have ptsd from the """"multipart"""" aggressor kit that forced me to choose between bruteforce/breaking/cutting/melting bits of my aggressors to have them set the way I want or assemble them in one specific copy paste way. Am tempted to buy a first born kit simply to test the customizability out since I joined during the primaris era.
Look at the company command set for firstborn
One of the models it is a monopose captain from an old boxset
But the other 5 in it are super customizable
Especially if you have other firstborn as almost all firstborn kits are compatible
1) the videos are interesting and the presentation/intros are always great
2) distressed by the apparent similarities in our wardrobes
Thank you so much! Glad you've enjoyed! And don't be distressed, embrace it 😈
The war drum of the 3D printing battalion beats. And it's getting louder.
Honestly, I initially dropped 40K right at the tail of 8th edition because I didn't like the new rules being previewed and I was a little sour that I played Grey Knights through the majority of 8th (which was my first edition of ANY tabletop wargame). The longer 9th has gone on, the happier I've been that I left. I had sold off all my GW stuff except for a Stompa that I already had, and the money from that has skyrocketed me into other systems.
When watching your video on Saturday about the Black Templars box, I had gotten into Kings of War about a week prior and realized that for under $200, I had gotten 71 models AND the rulebook, without needing to buy any supplements like a codex or a codex supplement. $200 for GW got me... well the Rulebook, Codex, and maybe 2 boxes of Paladins for Grey Knights (totaling 10 models), which isn't even able to be fielded as is.
Yeah, the value proposition for Warhammer 40k right now just can't compete with a lot of other systems. Not to mention that the state of the game is in a really rough spot right now too :(
I am reminded of Sargent Baker, a song by Primus, the chorus of which goes:
I will rape your personality, Pummel with my own philosophy, Strip you of your self integrity, And make all just a bit like me!
RIGHT
LEFT
RIGHT
And this try feels like what GW is now doing, a friend of mine that is an incredible painter and someone that can convert models brilliantly had one his miniatures disallowed from a GW tournament because they couldn't identify their own products. He now refuses to go to any more GW events.
I only play Blood Bowl and as I have no interest in attending GW events so happily support companies like Greebo Games, Punga, Gaspez Arts, Wily Miniatures amongst others, they are a return to Independent manufacturers, Wily Miniatures is one bloke in Spain that works out of shed, but I have nothing but positive experiences with them all (and multiple examples of their produce).
I really, really wish that people would figure this out by now:
GW doesn't give a damn about their players.
All that they care about is their stock price and their revenue. That is it.
I think it was when the Primaris Marines dropped that I started to notice what GW was going to do: they will obsolete their miniatures in a regular cycle sort of like how Magic does it.
I'd frankly rather just play a bunch of proxies and write "Suppressor" on their base and call it good.
We are truly living in crazy times , since COVID I’ve started throwing together and actually finish painting 500 points 40k lists. So yay new ork’s , 500 points easy , lots of new boys , I paint mostly know exciting. Well no for the all the reasons you stated. I ended up with steel legion , 2 infantry squads , 2 taurox and a tank commander job done. How crazy is it that I was pushed towards old metal models with nice load outs and very diverse tank kits! My mentality has gone from ooooow buy shinny new things to , quick buy the old stuff it’s better , before they sell out and replace it with mono pose nonsense
Haha I can see that! Happy collecting! :D
im really hopeing they do the ork boys like the chaos space marines but with more poseable stuffs, you see the chaos space marine sprews in the dark imperium box set are mono pose ish, i was able to swap heads and some arms without snipping, and the chaos space marine sprew in the seperate box with just them, are diffrent, and allow for shoulder swaps weapon swaps head swaps chest swaps and arm and head poses, with also more wepon options so im hoping they pull a CSM wif dah boyz.
Fingers crossed - but GW really should let us know these things before putting the box up for preorder!
I understand the frustrations of not being able to build an army your way. But, I think the postive in this is that it causes people to reach out to their hobby community for solutions. For example, if I prefer my loadout with shootas I can always find someone else within the community who prefers choppas and theres nothing stopping us from trading. so, I think from a social point of view this could be a good thing in terms of stengthening community social networks.
While I think that encouraging hobbyists to engage with one another and kitbash together etc. is awesome, I'd prefer this to be done through positive actions - i.e. including more bits in boxes! Send lots of bits to hobby stores! (that'd be really cool actually haha) - rather than negative ones. Thanks for your comment!
Im glad you covered this, its upsetting to know the sprues dictate build paths for your squad.
Dis ' Ork does not approve.
My rework brings all Boyz to the yard and they're like "wtf where are my weapon options? :("
This made me laugh too much
@@DiscourseMinis If you liked it then you should've put a heart on it.. oh wait ya did! Thanks, Discourse :D
Eh. Anything is possible with a box of hobby tools, green stuff (zing), spare bits (if you’s an Ork player, you ‘az lotsa dem) and a dream.
Gotta live that dream!
Yeah, but when you have a current boyz kit that you can make literally thousands of different looking boyz in different poses and the patrol box is filled with 25 models--20 of which are meant to build one specific way (the boyz at least, though the deffkoptas look monopose as well) with a heavy weapons boy standing in the exact same pose modelling two different weapons and a nob doing much the same. Honestly the most exciting, easily customizable, dynamic model in the whole box is the old deff dread. As an ork collector and player I had to ask myself was the patrol worth it? And the answer for me was no. There are better kits out there that don't require me to invest more in the kit than the kit is giving me. I'll probably pick up the deffkoptas, and maybe the warboss in armor individually, and everybody needs at least 4 deff dreads, but the monopose boyz (with their super small heads pre-mounted on their arms) are probably a long-term pass for me--especially if I can't replace their tiny widdle heads, because their preconfigured arms and weapon are going to be in the way.
If i wanted orks without bitz, i would print them
It's increasingly becoming possible for more and more people to do so. This business model isn't meshing well with that trajectory, I think
I don't need boyz and I am sure asf not buying the new beast snaggaboyz nor the new boyz kits for 50+ dollars. Instead I bought the savage orruk boxes which gives 20 and cost the same. I then bought some cyborg bits and some squigs to make my own snagga boyz and squighog riders. I wouldn't mind the new boyz kit if it had 20 boyz with it having at least 8 slugga/8 shoota and the other models either becoming nobz/big shoota/rokkit if you want, and if not allow conversions. At least then you could kit out 2 squads and just make the box cost a little more, maybe 60 - 75 ? I think the beast snagga box is ok, and the box makes sense, cause they only come as slugga boyz + nob with a power snagga only + optional thump gunner. The boyz kit needs a rework, cause nobody runs squads of boyz with mix sets of gunz, at least from what I've seen + being forced to take a big shoota/rokkit/nob...???
Thx to the people whom read this long rant. I'll go jump off a bridge now.
Should've seen this coming with the new Buggy builds being locked in to single loadouts. GW probably wants us to only be able to build 1 thing so they don't need to waste plastic on unused bits.
Yeah, 100%! Of course they do, they'll only support aspects of the hobby that they can monetize :
Straight up cancelled a $300 Lumineth order last month. Corvus Belli never pulled this crap.
Great video! Not gonna lie, it took a lot of willpower not to pre order this box on Saturday. I was so exited about the new boyz for so long but I have a gazillion orks with choppas and Sluggas, just need shootas. I have a half dozen deff koptas already and don't want the deff dread. Hopefully the boss in mega armour is released separately some day.
It's hard to resist that temptation, so well done!
That has annoyed me since launch of the warriors of chaos SC box. Like you said they are good boxes but i wish there was a stand alone for more the warriors themselves. Honestly Still have the old goofy ones from early 2000s but they just dont fit well with aos. Mostly talking about the ones that were hunched over although they do make great models for possessed and such. It would be nice to update the bulk of the army since i didnt like the ones prior that were designed to fit in unit trays better. They looked cool but just felt very stiff to me.
My first Orks came from the Mutant bag GW released along with the Eye of Terror Codex. My Lost and Damned Mutants died in droves due to their Firearm ' Gets Hot' rule.
So I painted my first 120 Orks. Looking forward to re basing 150 on 32s as they look better. Oh, and to use them in games of Xenos Rampant.
Edit. PS You missed Malarkey! I mean, c'mon man, you know the thing.......
Final someone talking sense.. GW are there own worst enemy. Love the way she gets her points across.. Keep it up
Might be tinfoil hatty of me, but there's 6 boyz with shootas in the Combat Patrol since there's 2 sprues. What other recently-released multi-part Ork infantry kit has 6 spare slugga-choppa arms because of the 6 special weapons you can equip them with? 🤔
Yeah, but trying to add those arms to a push-fit model (with holes and pegs) is going to be a chore to make look/fit right.
For your codex video, be sure to mention that there is no difference between the regular Ork dex and the Special Edition outside of some minor cosmetic tweaks. Same page count, same art, same information....a 30$ difference. Mind blowing. Crazier even that people pay for that trash. A book that is almost twice as expensive as the regular book with no additional anything.
This is how they’ve done limited edition codexes for years now. And nobody is forcing you to buy the LE when you can just have the regular version and be totally ok. If the LE version at +$30 price tag was literally the ONLY version available... that’d be different. I’m certainly not interested in ever getting the limited edition, so the fact that it exists *for people who do choose to buy it* has absolutely no effect on me whatsoever.
I remember being disgusted when they started changing the quantity of models in blisters to maximise waste. Back then it was moving from 5 aspect warriors to 3, meaning you had to get 12 to field 10. (I'm old, this was a very long time ago) Now that seems positively generous.
Orks in 40K have always been treated as a joke. These aliens are supposed to be an existential threat to the Galaxy and yet lore has them constantly acting like morons, as if being clownish and idiotic is menacing. At least they don’t look like circus clowns like they did in Rogue Trader/2nd Ed.
don't worry, there is customization in the new Super Heavy Intercessors! only 100£ for 5. free cherub included
Oooh, can't forget the sweet cherub!
Think about it. If models are no longer physically customizable then painting them will be how people can personalize them. And who is willing to sell you all types of painting supplies?
Oh boy. As a fellow Orkz player and lover ever since 2008, I have A LOT to say about these guys. Anybody who's seeing my profile picture and name, and wants to know what another Ork Player thinks, you have been warned. TLDR: Not worth it imho, and I would sooner scan the parts and fix them with a 3d printer than buy multiple boxes. now lets see:
Monopose. The largest sin with these new Boyz. The entire Orkz player base is kitbash incarnate. it's part of The Orks lore and character to take anything and everything, put it together haphazardly, and make it a part of their army so that NO two armies look the same. No two armies have the same "personality". reducing that ability or the "illusion" of that ability is a HUGE way to kill how many of these actually sell before the scalpers get them. However we all know GW doesn't care about the scalper/whale problem since it does fit their profits and actually supports something Discourse Miniatures discussed in a recent video, the Fear of Missing Out. If i recall it is the "Games Workshop Are EXPLOITING Players Using Video Game Tactics" video.
The sprues. The sprues themselves coming as a mixed unit is also a big sin. NOONE runs any Orkz unit as a mixed unit, you go all in on either shooting or chopping because you're REWARDED for it. especially with Boyz. Now sure you can make an Orkz ARMY that's mixed with ranged and melee and even some psychic, hell thats reccomended, but the only time you're going to make a boyz unit thats some shooty and some choppy, is if you decide to merge two beat up Boyz squads into one mob.... atleast I think that's still a rule right now.
The models look nice and the beast snaggas too! but something still seems... "off". they look closer to AOS' high fantasy style than the "grim dark future" perspective we've seen and heard these Orkz are. Orkz are a race that constantly fights, even among itself, yet even among these boyz theres no cuts or missing fingers or bruises or what not. Sure, while The Beast Snaggas are going to be perfect for Snakebite Klans they also feel a bit off. all in all the models are great but look to clean (yes this can be fixed by the player along with other complaints, but i'll get to that. not gunna dog on the paintjob either especially about the skin, do i think whoever painted them used the same tone we use for grots? sure, but thats paint, that's the easiest fix.)
The customization. I guess this could be included in the monopose bit but this is more related than the same subject... where are all the heads? where's all the helmets? where's the guns the and axes and bits and bobs galore! again, we're a faction that prides ourselves on the individual personality and customization of our armies.
The Dice. This is a short comment but those are the saddest ork dice i've ever seen, a child could make better ork dice. hell, i could give them for not even a tenth of the cost gw is pushing if i made them, and i wouldn't just be selling "green dice but the six is a Goffz skull", fuck sake.
Price. I remember a time when models, even parts and bits, could be bought separately and in bags for really cheap. that was a LIFESAVER for us Orkz players because it allowed us, a horde army, not to sacrifice our damn life savings just to play the lads. As the prices got higher that suddenly went away for no reason, models that we need are also locked into other boxes for NO reason, it's only NOW do we finally get plastic deffkoptas outside of Hellsreach, *and they're damn near the exact same models, and they're stuck in another box.* I'm sick of that, I'm sick of not being able to buy the newest models on their own months or even years after their announcement, but hey it makes GW more money so why would they stop even though being more consumer friendly would net them more pay in the long term... you know they're going to jack the price high too on the regular boyz box for these new models if they ever come out but right now you have to fork, in the US, $140 or $50 if you wanted just Beast Snagga boyz... but hey, Discorse Miniatures mentioned that you'd have to buy ten of these combat patrols just to make a full 30 mob of choppas or shootas, so i hope you're ready to fork $1,400 DOLLARS! YEAH THATS FUCKING FINE ITS NOT LIKE WE ORKS KITBASH AND DO EVERYTHING ELSE TO ALSO SAVE MONEY!.... and don't get me on the codex
covid. Covid didnt hit GW hard, they filled their bills from that problem literally in the MONTH that lockdown started for them, they make more money and standing than OIL COMPANIES. they don't get an excuse like that, let alone a YEAR after it started, they've had plenty of time to do this right if they wanted it to be a "starter" kit. But they didn't, and we should not give them any space or mercy on that. I doubt this WAS supposed to be a starter kit, GW is known for reducing the cost it takes to make models but jacking the price up, and since they're trying to net the mythical "wider audience" they're going to do this to ALL of the armies to make it "easier" for people who didn't like the world or even the game to begin with, it's another step of them leaving tabletop behind and turning more into something like Marvel or Disney where they sell the franchise in my honest opinion.
and like
Discourse Miniatures mentioned, SLAVED OF DARKNESS!
Now that's plenty to read and I'm sure many people will go "just use greenstuff and move the limbs" or "guess the orks forgot how to customize", it's not that we didn't, it's the fact that's it's becoming more expensive and tedious to do so, like DM said, GW is purposfully removing quality of life choices for the customer to sell extra plastic at high prices. if i have to cut, stuff, mold, kit, and everything else to every knew ork model....where do you think i GET the stuff to do that? probably a place that GW has a finger in give or take. it's not that i NEVER had to do that previously like i said, it's that i have to do it MORESO to make models i like..... so instead im saying this:
if i ever get these models? i'm going to 3d print parts, if i ever get these models, i'm going to 3d print the models again THEMSELVES that actually better arms and heads and bodies for customization. Like i'm going to go into the printer and make all the heads separate fromt he torso, all the arms, the legs, the guns, EVERYTHING! so i can pose them the way I WANT and do that over and over and over again, plus i'm going to do the same with the bitz, the little detail things either on the orks or that can be glued on. that reduces how much cutting i have to do, how much greenstuff i need to buy, and how many imperfections i need to hide with my painting.
SPEAKING OF fuck gw for saying "no you can't use printed parts". if you make them from gw stock i doubt anyone will tell after you clean and paint them AND...they can't fucking stop me or anyone and i encourage that people push that. i would actually not mind if gw just went into the printing market and sold spools and capsules of the stuff we NEED let alone digital files to do it. until than and into the future?
i'm just gunna use the old boyz and models, they're LEAGUES better, not in detail like the new models sure. But if i came down to quality, number, versatility, customization, character, PRICE!? yeah...they still outdo the new boyz.
Well said, and a great summary of all the issues facing Ork players :)
Orks orks orks
Also, my first dive into warhammer was with the Island of blood box, it was quite a bummer when i realized that if i wanted more swordmasters of hoeth, either i was stuck with super old sculpts of elves that look like they had a bit too many lembas bread and their helmets can barely contain their cheeks.
Or buy another island of blood box and get 8 models because the command part of the unit is useless if you want to bulk it up.
Then i realized that people used them as chaff in game, so i bought white lions instead 😂.
One thing i do resent is that gw is making their kits increasingly aggressive against kitbashing, i mean, you can do it, but if you're not good at sculpting you're gonna have a bad time getting decent results
Oh yeah! They've been at this for a long time! Loved that old Island of Blood Set, but I was all about that Skaven, mmm!
@@DiscourseMinis it's a shame they never released those rat ogres individually, they're gorgeous models
As of this writing (March 2022), the old Ork Boyz kit is still sold alongside the new Boyz. Because I guess that while GW decided to release the new Boyz on their own, they decided _against_ actually adding to that kit, such that you might get more weapon options. You're just expected to mix and match between new and old models.
Which isn't great for someone looking for a force with a cohesive aesthetic. Or someone who doesn't like the old sculpt. Personally, I LOVE the perma-twerk Orks, so I'm not complaining. But it's just weird that they've done it this way.
Whew. Got into miniature painting recently and boy am I glad I never got into Warhammer as a kid.
I have a lot of great memories of the game, but it has always been tough to keep up. Unfortunately GW are doubling down on making it hard :(
@@DiscourseMinis I feel ya. A lot of great hobbies have been ruined by corporate profit maximization strategies :/
Micro-transactions, gambling, pre-order bonuses and seasonality in video games etc.
Anyways, have a good one. Cheers.
@@jonashansen6391 I totally agree. You too!
Oh wow your transition is coming along great
With what GW is doing with the new mini I'm getting scared of what the T'au gonna look like, because if the crisis have "forced weapons" all the T'au player gonna be... well more angry than a khorn space marine, the main advantage of the crisis is the variety of ways that you can make them
The alpha GW move would be to equip them with like melee weapons and then sell the pulse rifles on an upgrade sprue. Insist, of course, on WYSIWYG. Oh, think of the money!
I doubt Crisis Suits will get an update. They already have fairly recent plastic models which sell well. And T'au are a xenos race lol. If GW update Tau it will be special characters like Darkstrider (sell well - people will buy new plastic character with new codex), or alien auxillaries like Kroot (old and in need of update) or a new battlesuit (people love dem gundams and will buy).
The mix of scathing analysis of the New business model and the hilarious asides (they have great tailors) makes this video and channel a delight
Thank you so much! Glad you've enjoyed :D
The Hobby wants FREEDOM! Poses I will do with my glue!
I run my Ork boyz in mixed units and everyone is telling me it's a bad choice, but I don't know what to do about it now apart from just saying "ignore what you see, these are all the same" to my opponent. I don't know, I'll keep testing it out and see.
It's all about how optimal you want to be, I suppose. But in terms of actual play, you can always do what you suggest: just clarify for your opponent your load out. Is it not possible to just bundle most of the shootas together and most of the sluggas together?
@@DiscourseMinis That may be an option in the future but I currently don't have enough shootas for one unit, and I'm not planning on buying any new minis for a long time. Still have to play my first tournament this month though and maybe they'll kick my butt hard enough to make me change my modus operandi.
The new codex may make the mixed units viable, I didn't get the overpriced box set with it in it a few months ago so I don't know for sure
Wonderful content. Glad to be hear.
Thank you so much!!
Skaven and beastmen!
Woohoo! They are both criminally under-supported :
Yes! I've planned to buy my Beastmen from Raven Twin miniatures, their sculpts are so much better.
@@sierrawhiskyalpha3974 raventwins gors look so much better than the gors AoS recently released for their underworlds game its insanity
I play orks but I will never be able to afford a new army. GW has lead me to look for a resin printer. I would probably print the new komandos.
Well said. Great video. The tactics this company uses have always been unnecessarily greedy, but it seems like the last decade has shown that their may be no depth they are unwilling to sink, to get our money.
GW Leadership is Like: "Behold the Underminer! I am always beneath you, but nothing is beneath me! I hereby declare war on peace and happiness! Soon, all will tremble before me! "
-The Underminer's monologue from The Incredibles (2004)
I really appreciate this kind of in depth analysis of the business practices. Several nuances you noted that I had not thought of.
thank you so much! I'm just hoping to contribute something to the discussion :)
i still say if gw made its own printers sold resin and stls and maybe make a merchant license they could make a killing
Totally agreed. STL files would do really well. I suspect GW think it would "devalue" the existing lines though,
@@DiscourseMinis maybe I'd say make the stls more like bits that way people can make custom poses I do that with most of my stls I have
Sorry, I couldn't hear the episode over the sound of my multiple 3d printers.
Always a jot to watch. Funny note the subtitles spell Orks as Orcs.
The subtitle generator must be a bigger fan of fantasy!!