RE: "Enshittification". The old American term (my Dad uses it) is "The Schlitz effect". Named after a Wisconsin beer manufacturer that was super successful in the Midwest in the 50s-70s. Some executive wanted to cut costs in the economic downturn of the late 1970s, so they watered down the beer a little with no change in sales. Your average blue collar drinker didn't notice. So they watered it down a little more later. And a little more. Eventually after a few years people noticed "hey, this beer I've been drinking every weekend for 20 years tastes like shit. What happened?" Schlitz got exposed and had to come clean. They went back to the original recipe but by that point the damage was done, and their loyal customer base had moved on to other beers, and Schlitz never recovered. This is exactly what's happening now with GW.
I was at the shop today and talking with the owner, his rep messaged him about getting "popular" models that the owner said they last checked what was "popular" and sold well in 9th edition. He basically told his rep "why would I order out of date popular models that your just gonna cancel half the order of anyway since you dont have any stock?" about 2 seconds later his rep was trying to call him. The owner is pretty much done trying to sell WH stuff because it's such a pain in the ass to get and he can sell cards faster and for more profit
Gw is in the process of killing local stores. They used to be a place where members of the community would welcome you, introduce you to the hobby. Most places when i was a kid had a whole separate back section of the shop where lengthy tables strewn with terrain had people play introductory games to get a feel for the various Game systems. On other days they'd host painting and building classes to help the less skilled Hobbyists take their first steps. Now look at their ''no gaming'' policy. They want you to buy your stuff and crawl back to your basement with your own smelly ilk. They know local stores are the better deal for people so they are intentionally making it harder for store runners to actually obtain stock and reliably take orders from people. They also insist on deliberately underproducing stock so they can sell more on their site than people can even get from anywhere else.
All the new combat patrols are worse that the previous, not only are GW greedy they actively seems to hate collectors as well. The £40-£50 original "start collecting" where an amazing way to get started in an army. Now I just feel like "that's all" and you want how much... f*** off GW.
The battleforces which were the predecessors of the Start Collecting boxes were awesome, if one contained 4 elements and you only wanted 3 it was still worth it. For example, my first armies were all Chaos Space Marines and the battleforce had 10 CSM, 10 berserkers, 5 possessed and a rhino, all for £50. Given how the Rhino was £40 by itself this was a huge saving despite barely using the possessed at all.
@@hitagi_tore7358 One of the many dangers with this sort of game system, they could keep the Combat Patrol as is but if the new codex is off the box still loses value.
GW have always done this. When i bought my first RHINOs, they came 3 in a box for A$50 then it was A$50 for one. Landraiders were 2 in a box for the same price. Same thing happened to them. That was when I knew I wouldn't be buying much more of there stuff unless I really liked it or it had better value. My first Spacemarine box was the 30 Beakies for A$30.
I thought well hobbies are just expensive these days until I backed some projects on Kickstarter. Ended up with a ton of same quality plastic figures from Dungeons and Lasers for about $300. If I had gotten that amount of figures from GW it would have cost thousands.
This would be good as a separate kit for those who want a pre-made theme. Right now I tend to remove most of the terrain bits and repose the minis anyway... I mean. I used to. 10th edition bs made me stop buying. I am still tempted by some nids but I'll get to paint my friends' tyranid hord for now. I'll wait and see how stuff develops. I think GW pushed too far.
Me too, I mean look at the Corvin Severax model, that base is ridiculous same with the officio assasins. Also the jump pack assault intercessors look so stupid, they are half a foot off the ground yet are like 45 degrees bent over lol. I loved my jump pack marines just on the base, they looked so cool, who cares if they aren't flying, 50% of the time they aren't gonna be flying anyway. GW's obsession with complexity and unneeded detail is gotten out of hand, also the old hand sculpted models look better than their new computer designed shit.
@@karlsilcock8727 GW make stupid decisions even when it doesn't involve profit. Granted most of the stupid decisions are due to profit but stupid is as stupid does LOL. They used to be a great company back in the day.
I have a theory that GW uses like pre-posed "Blank" sculpts that they then put faction-specific components on using digital tools. It'd absolutely explain the near-identical poses and copy-paste look of so many kits.
Makes sense, in a time when a shop offers you to configure a personal mini in your browser, pose and outfit included, imagine what a dedicated workstation can do.
I'm pretty sure that they did this before the digital tools - the old metal necromunda escher characters and old DE sculpts have identical proportions and similar poses. Its just more obvious because there is less hand sculpting to put custom parts on top of those blanks.
The old toy action figure ( He-Man, GI JOE etc ) used do do something like that. Same mold for different figures. Even cross IPs used the same mold sometimes.
Games Workshop: "I hate my fans!" Players: "We hate Games Workshop!" Games Workshop: "So, are you going to buy my new thing?" Players: "...yeah, we will buy it out in seconds."
I really do think that GW is on the verge of a bubble. This constant churn and push is accelerating. Combine this with price hikes, the forcing of new models into huge, expensive boxes, and the backlash of the massive milestone 500th issue not having the mini as part of it, but having a poster inside _that showed all the issues that had minis coming with them._ They're also spread suuuuuuper thin. There's the Amazon show, new merch, the VR game in October, the _Space Marine 2_ game too, and they still have the rest of 10th ed to get through, and half the armies don't have a codex right now and at least two don't even have armies (Votann and Emperor's Children, but historically, definitely more)! This is rapid growth at an unsustainable level and may explain the price rises - they're trying to cover the cost of signing every contact that's slid onto their desk in the last three years.
@@nolader28 and with community content, miniatures, lore, animations and rules only becoming more coming, it’s actually a pretty damn hopeful time to get in :)
Games Workshop has very high customer satisfaction compared to other businesses. They're in the Apple realm - expensive but worth it. Typical GW customer has a high spend per year. Zero reason for GW to charge £50 for a Combat Patrol when they're seling out at £75. There's no realism to these discussions.
yea they are gonna crash hard from 3d printing. Especially here in america where it's freaking impossible to even buy models if we wanted to. everything is sold out and has been for 5+ months
@@bmwofboganville456 some may, many do not. What I do know is that I print some minis that rival GW and they are anywhere from .10 to .20 a mini for 32mm infantry. For those that like forking over $70 for 5 or 10 minis to GW there is certainly nobody stopping you, just not for some of us.
Sadly this is what happens when a company goes public, and shareholder dividends (and executive stock options tied to salaries) become the priority over good consumer practices. Short term profit becomes the driving force. It just feels so egregious. Especially with 40K. The amount of shit they don't give is on full display. With AoS it feels a little less obvious. Probably because the AoS player base isn't quite so enthralled and obsessive to the "lore" and IP. Yet. One thing the Old World release has brought back for me, is how feckin obsessive a lot of the players were about that game back in the day. Only a matter of time before GW start fully exploiting them again, if they haven't already. I now only buy GW models second hand, but I mostly 3D print for games using OPR, or Xenos Rampant rules. So many great rules systems out there to use our models with.
That jump canoness is lazy and insulting. That said, the box would be perfect for me because I need another Exorcist and I don't have any seraphim yet.
Could you imagine giving that box to someone and telling them to try like a 500 point game? "Park this thing behind terrain, fly these units in if they die womp womp you lose" @jtowensbyiii6018
Worst part is: Games Workshop will be rewarded and feel justified in their actions because there are enough peabrains out there to make all of this sell out fast AF instead of going for recasters like wartablegames, cheapnfast etc, so they will keep doing this.
I find your content to be informative. It should be said I appreciate it. However could your titles and thumbnails be less click baity. I feel you'd find even more success.
To be fair Flight stands in clear plastic are notoriously brittle and what happens usually is players just use metal rods to avoid them braking off during transport or play. They look ok but they are just cheaply made
As a new sisters players, well blessed sisters for OPR, i was hyped to get something new. I was already to head to my FLGS and make some preorders. Then the big let down. Sucks.
My cousin and I started the hobby recently. It's gonna be awkward for us. I picked up my first models at the same time he did. We both got combat patrols. But... I wanted Necrons, he wanted Orks. I got the new 10th edition Necron patrol (which I didn't even know had been recently changed at the time), aaaand he got the old 9th edition Ork patrol. We both have the 10th edition codices. My models have been painted and ready to play for months, he's been slower, but he started painting his today. They're sitting in a box in my room and I am just... I'm just dreading our first game. We've invested a LOT of time and money into this hobby and we haven't even played our first game yet and now I'm starting to wonder if its going to suck. I'm afraid we've been shot in the foot and don't even know it. I'm afraid our interest in this hobby will be killed if these patrols aren't balanced correctly. I've been nervously awaiting my first match, watching all the news as the Ork codex came out and combat patrols started seeing updates and I'm not really feeling confident about playing this game any more. Still, the models are bought and payed for so eventually I guess I'll figure it out when we finally sit down to play. Wish me luck.
Similar story here- got started with combat patrol but with guard. Played 4 games with my brothers necrons CP and he wrecked me every game. I left hating myself for wasting so much money and time. But I found one page rules and it's all good now. Don't let the GW antics ruin a fun hobby for you guys.
for the cost of 1 combat box and a codex you can now get a 4k resin printer. Blender lets you pose STL's. My sisters army cost me $250, I got to customize those single pose models, and i also still have a resin printer.
and the diversity of low/mid and high quality models you can find online for free or .50-10.00 in every faction with all manner of add ons or alternatively designed heads/helmets/arms/guns/etc. you can even find full vehicles or massive nids for free, resin is reasonably cheap, although getting the ABS-like or similar slightly more expensive flexible resin would be recommended as standard resin can be a little bit fragile. . . printer go brrrrr
It's really annoying how these boxes keep getting smaller, more expensive and less diverse while some of the models remain ugly as sin or incredibly dated. I want to get more necrons but their box is so shitty, I don't need more warriors, spice things up with immortals and new lokust destroyers or something. This is why I've been looking for alternatives like Turnip28 that allow you to be as creative and cheap as you want
To answer the Genestealer Cult weakness to vehicles, I would say... tough. As a revolutionary insurgency force, it feels appropriate for Cults to have to take desperate measures against vehicles, or even against organised military forces in general.
this sentiment is how i've been viewing the same space marine variant thats been released every year, multiple times a year for multiple years now....Kicking a DeadHorse
Tabard: A tabard is a type of short coat that was commonly worn by men during the late Middle Ages and early modern period in Europe. I still laugh that someone in the TTG miniature world decided that minis needed a towel flapping between their legs to slow them down and get tangled up in. And called it a type of short coat.
With all due respect...to He__ with 40k. It's just chaotic nonsense for kids. Respectable Adults focus on and paint OW models. We understand 40K is a necessary evil as a fundraiser for GW to keep on cracking out Old World models,.and that's really all the news we want. 40k is a disjointed hot mess popular with teenager and scene-bots. No cares given.
This sealed it for me. The lore is amazing! The gameplay seems crunchy to me, but given time I could learn it. But now? With this? Nah. I'll be going elsewhere for wargaming
It kinda makes sense for GW to try shifting models that don't sell as well, but it pisses me off how they treat their launch sets. >Launch new edition box >Never resupply once it sells out >Gut the contents to re-release as a Starter set in three sizes >Re-sell the gutted models for ludicrous prices as a "key HQ/Elite" set that's online purchase only >Repackage each side of the Starter set as a Combat Patrol that, together, are just as expensive as the Starter set itself I already have the Leviathan box, I don't need the exact same mono-pose slot-fit miniatures *_again_* to bulk up my Tyranids or Space Marines, minus a bunch of miniatures - give me cheaper Hormagaunts or Genestealers to build up my swarm, give me easier access to Elites or Fast Attack troops for my Chapter, not re-boxings of the exact same miniatures you can get in the set *_designed to teach you how to play the game!_*
I 100% feel you here Discourse, I also play GSC and Sisters, and both of the Sisters boxes were extremely disappointing to me... I'm a bit happier with the GSC offering, but the new Combat Patrol and Battleforce will finish out my army for me. For new players though, it's terrible. The models are cool, but it's not the functional part of your army - it's a niche subset of the faction.
Na, the WORST thing was their reveal stream. They obviously didn't care about the Sisters and just rushed through it to get to GSC. And when the one guy said the "best thing" in the new Sister codex was the Force Organization Chart...that ALSO was in our 8th and 9th Codex? WTF?!
The laziest thing I reckon they've done this edition is the Space Marine and Tyranid Combat Patrol boxes... They are literally all the push fit minis from the release box(es), rather than a selection of minis you could add to those boxes...
I hate to admit it but your right, but we have seen this before - 7th edition. I've been collecting and playing since the end of 2nd edition, so I've seen most of the GW good and bad ideas. The game has been completely changed over time, but the loss of a court case in America and the advent of 3D printing seem the reason for this mono poseed uglyness, but the relentless drive to feed tournament players has killed most of the good and twisted the game. Where is the Ork tech that was as dangerours to them as their target? Why has chaos gone from high risk/high reward character development? My character kill an enermy character, will he turn into a demon price? A Spawn or get some fun new ability? My squad leader failed his Ld test and the Comisser shot him. My hive mind lost it's link to that swarm of guants, will they run or go frenzied? My Farseer is going to melt your generals brain! Why has all the flavoir, relic options and even the tactics gone? I hope they get over the need to attack the fan base over not getting their way, but unless they suffer another 7th edition (GW almost went under, due to value for money and horrible rules) I don't see GW giving a damn. Sorry for the long rant, but GW have it coming.
It seems like you are correct in a lot of these boxes sadly. The only new combat patrol that seems like maybe an improvement or at least a lateral move is the new Tau combat patrol. There are a lot of things in that that would make it rebuyable. Way more so than the last one. But that is like the only one of the new boxes that seems to go against this new trend. Maybe the person who was in charge of the Tau box follows the way of the greater good ;)
The fact that 40k become more and more expensive was the reason my friends and I stopped playing years ago. We simply couldn't afford it anymore. We found mantic games 5 years ago and fell in love with their board games and Kings of War, Deadzone and Firefight. We even use our old Warhammer and 40k stuff to build and play the armies. And their games are so much better when it comes to value for money. At the price of one tiny combat patrol of 40k you get a whole functioning army for firefight with almost three times more models in it than you get inside a combat patrol box. And you don't need to buy two to four books worth around 100 to 200 € just to get the stats. You buy one book for 40€ and you have everything you need to play the game and every single faction included as there is everything in one book combined. The games are simple to learn and so much fun to play. Don't get me wrong, I think 40k is one of the best settings in Sci-Fi ever. But GW ruins it by just making it almost impossible to play without very very deep pockets...
Every release of 40k enshittifies the game more than the previous. Is' 10th edition as enshitified as it can get? I bet it isn't... we'll see I guess :(
NGL, I love the Necromunda stuff for GSC. But I hate lot of stuff about 10e. Worse combat patrols, elite customizable shooty faction (Tau) losing range (12" melta, 18" plasma) *and* customability (preset Crisis loadouts) while losing fun characters (Longstrike...) and models (Hazard suits, my beloved Tetras) So in the end I'm left gathering resources for my ongoing "Chaos cult using GSC rules" kitbash army and slowly making progress when not sick (sadly rare).
Just a rules point...you cant use the necromunda stuff for anything other than necromunda, unless youre playing with your own gaming group that is loose with the rules...in which case you still get better 3D printed models. The necromunda stuff has come out specifically saying that other GSC or nids avoid them as they are genetically corrupted.
Great information, I loved the compare and contrast you did with the new/old battle boxes. I also agree GW is going down hill, just take a look at the new Chaos Space Marine codex, there are no specific legion traits; and I fear that GW will release an over priced supplement for each non chaos god focused legion.
I work in retail and this is how the world is and it's just going to get worse. I love your posts as the script always gives me a laugh. Keep the great posts going
I've been doing GW mini building and have been playing the game on and off since the early 90s. I've seen a lot of stuff come and go. Not a fan of the mono pose minis at all. They are much harder to kit bash and convert. I'm really glad that I have so many spare mini parts and miniatures that I don't need to bye anything anymore. I'm sorry that your main armies got whose, ma'am. As someone who has played orks forever, I remember what that's like. There was an eight year period that orks had to use the same codex through three editions and no knew minis. I could literally say "My codex came out last millennia" for YEARS of game play. Hopefully they get their shit together and realize people will just get stand ins from Esty for a fraction of the price. I'm not going to hold my breath though.
GW can't make up their damn mind if they want stuff to look identical or make stuff stand out. Feels like they are streamlining where they shouldn't while keeping differences that are pointless
Honestly at least our Sydonian stilt-tros for Admech you can pick out just because of his ridiculousness and tallness with that new Jump pack character you really couldn't do that from a distance. And then we also needed some more Cybernetica units but nope stilt Skitarii
There is one not awful potential answer to why they're doing this - They're bleeding off stock so that when they do an "end of times" arc in 40k like they did with old world, it doesn't massively devalue a good portion of the company when all the new models come out. Today, they're paying out the ass for warehouse space and manufacturing etc. for models for the existing 40k range. All of that is company assets, those assets have a valuation that assumes there's some kind of market interest for those models. If 40k gets a huge change and becomes like, 43k or w/e, and we get huge range refreshes, that devalues all of those assets massively. So the optimal time to do that kind of large scale refresh is when you are floating as little in the way of backstock as you can, so that the potential decrease in valuation is way lower. Note also they've got that subscription service mag thing coming out soon that hands out a bunch of combat patrols on the cheap, etc - they're definitely clearing stock for SOMETHING.
It would have been a lot better if they kept both Combat Patrol and getting started boxes. We have multiple Space Marine Combat Patrols so they can do it. With both boxes you can more easily build your army, One box for troop fillers and the other for more vehicles/fast attacks.
It needs to continue being said, 3D printers go brrr. There are better game rules available and better models available outside of the GW walled garden that cost a tiny fraction of the GW gougefest.
@@CTX-lk8hf I laughed hard when I saw the old world re-release. Using the same old tired models. Meanwhile my group and I are all printing Highland Miniatures models and playing Kings of War.
That's why its just easier to print out your own. Scan your existing models and vary the pose and weapon layout as desired for each and every model. Not a damn thing GW can do about it as long as you don't sell them.
The army of faith ended up costing about as much as 3 Seraphim-Boxes, and since I'm fairly new to Sisters and wanted a bunch of them anyway, it was kind of a good deal for me. But I absolutely see, that it's really annoying if you already have a bunch of them.
Honestly I prefer the new combat patrol to the previous one, the +20 euro price tag is scummy that's for sure (and yes it's also a lazy box but not unexpected), but for the previous combat patrol, buying one for me was the absolute certainty of having to buy second hand models to fill the various missing minies for all the units (5 repentia, 7 arco, another penitent engine at least) as well as another box of battle sister. I never saw the previous CP as anything more than a 200+ bucks price tag. Yes a LOT of sisters player are hurt over the new CP, also most of them never had the boarding patrol in hand or never had to buy second hands to fill up their units letting odd numbers outs. That's probably going to have to change in the new codex and then you'll be left in the dust either having to buy those minies right at the same time as everyone else OR you'll have to shelves them for a long time rendering their presence in the old CP absolutely worthless (at least for the arco and repentia) The battleforce however is so fucking stupid and lazy it's actually unbelivable. a freaking castigator would have been better themed than another EXORCIST IN A FAST FLYING FORCE. Also I quite like the new jumpack cannonness, but to stay in the utter lazyness of this round of sister release, they quite literally showcased her in her utmost boring loadout... Who ever teh fuck will ever get excited about a mini that look like a random sister superior with her bog standard weapons... Couldn't have started out with the mace and plasma pistol instead? But clearly the guys at the live REALLY REALLY wanted to get a move on anyway. I'm quite glad to only pay bolt action nowadays so at least I don't have to worry about the new codex rules. 150 euro is a 1500 points army I can use for years, instead of two and a half units that will barely give me something like 300 pts on average (discounting all the options not on sprue you need to jump through hoops to grab). My sister army is purely a painting and modelism passion project.
Nice video covering just how expensive it is becoming to purchase Warhammer products. Combat Patrols are being ‘rebalanced’ to fit the new Combat Patrol game mode, which I think would be fine if they went back to costing £40-50. So sales of these will fall off in line with new entrants to 40K. I certainly wouldn’t recommend this right now given how expensive it’s become. On the other hand AoS is still expensive but its game philosophy and approach seems way more player focused in comparison and I’m really excited for 4th edition. I think you have a valid point and it feels like the 40K executives are desperate to extract every last dollar from their franchise ignoring the fact they are running their product into the ground!
it's not all bad, many miniatures look good, I love the factions, i love my lil armies, and gameplay can be fun at times :) I like painting a lot of the models. But it's frequently the business that is getting in the way of the joy
Oh now you're complaining about GW and Warhammer? You still consume their products anyway. I already stopped investing in Warhammer since the Lady Custodes thing blew out. I don't know why youtube still recommends me this channel.
"Shitification" is a term used in the stead of Late stage capitalism. Profit can not constantly grow, thats not how sustainable business works. However share holders expect more and more money every quarter, leading to quick schemes to make money that ultimately ruin your company because there is no longer a valued product, but instead money making schemes. usually leads to the consumer base changing products entirely, or stealing/pirating the product they desire.
better question is why does AoS get to keep their old combat patrols(called spearheads) but we lose combat patrols in 40k, also remember start collecting boxes being 80bucks max and being combat patrols before those existed, some are close to identical, but cost twice as much for no reason also on the space marine and tyranid combat patrols, its even worse, the ultimate starter set comes with both $168 combat patrol, comes with terrain, and it costs 210, so if combat patrols are supposed to be a starting point why is the full on starter box so much better, mind you the combat patrols in there are terrible and the leviathan box was technically better for both and was only like 30 to 40 more then the new box but had no terrain, so if we look at the ultimate starter and treat the combat patrols as zero savings the ultimate box is 50% savings and free terrain, is also brings into question the lower starter set versions, like what the fuck is their price scaling, the standard starter set is 112 and removes your ability to play combat patrol entirely, the intro set is 65 and is just a waste of money, the space marine 2 board game from target came with 23minis and was 40bucks, meanwhile gw is selling a cut down version in a flimsy same size box with half the minis for 65. like none of their pricing makes any fucking sense to even each other in their own ecosystem, its even worse when you look at rules and sculpts, warcrys rules feel like they are given to unpaid and unfed interns that dont know what the models look like or what their theme is, and the last few imperial sculpts have been so god awful compared to their originals
10:08 Same with the new Tau boxset , managed to grab the old one, they're not my main army at all but wanted the old box for the VARIETY! and ghostkeel
One thing to note about the marine combat patrol The teleport homer doesn't even have rules. It's a token for an effect that the combat patrol rules delete
Honestly im curious on how they could make a new Space Wolves patrol worse i collect them and i thought it was pretty bad already, i might not like all this but all i can do is stop spending on miniatures and considering my local game store is already suffering it sucks, but also all of its like watching a housefire as it burns just a fascinating destruction
I play around with 3D models and have a ton of generic bits that I tinker with to combine and make new units all the time for Sisters specifically. Maybe I should just apply and do their modelling for them since I can make three units a day!
Putting together a sisters gone khorne army has taught me that buying 3rd party proxies not only looks way better, but is massively cheaper than anything GW has. I was feeling iffy about it until GW announced *another* price increase. I'm looking to primarily get 3rd party stuff from now on.
Please understand this is meant to be rhetorical: are you new here? Ok silliness aside, they have been doing this kind of thing since the 90s. 10th ed is a joke in the same way 5th ed dnd is: everything is simplified down to the point of being nearly the same but they still want you to buy the new shiny and sometimes will make you buy it (cause the old thing you still have doesnt work anymore). I still recall when they moved away from metal to plastic since it was cheaper but at the same time upped the price by quite a lot. Outside of a hand full of things I have only gotten the holiday boxes and even then the 10th ed rules (or at least the roll out) doesnt make me want to get more, not that I ever get to play. Sorry for the ramble rant there.
So I quit table to gaming 10+ years ago when AoS came out, what put me off playing was the direction of GW’s business model, it’s absolutely insane to see how much money is wasted/ invested on this hobby. I remember that a box of 10 tactical marines was £15 and went to £20, the 2 character models would have been £5 to £7.50 each and 5 terminators would of set you back £25, but what I’ve just seen is a game that’s designed for the rich, tabletop games are no longer accessible for everyone and in a world where parents can’t afford the basic essentials like housing and food , to a hobby coat this, all I can say is go and explore the rest of the world, a flight from the UK to south east Asia return costs around 7 combat patrols, it’s a bad joke how much people spend on this
Let me give you my American examples: I started buying models at the beginning of 3rd. I could talk my friends into playing by saying "$100 will get you started and the game club has copies of the rulebooks". I could say that because a box of 10 space marines was $25 and a rhino was $25. Character models were around $8 or $9. Avatar of Khaine or Bloodthirsters were only $25. I remember when dreadnoughts switched to plastic I naively thought that they would go down in price from $35 to $25 because they would be plastic and thus cost less to manufacturer and transport. Instead they went to $45. I was so angry. The club owner tried to calm me down by saying "it has optional front plates and a bunch of weapon options" but I didn't care. Now? A box of 10 Intercessors is... Well in a few days they'll be over $60. That's 3-5 days of eating out for me. That's a full tank of ..."petrol" and lunch. That's about a week of groceries for me but I'm a single dude and eat simple meals. Either way, after about 25 years of being in this hobby, and playing almost exclusively 40k, I've started buying 3D sculpts and selling off unfinished projects. There's no future in Warhammer. It's just an endless cycle of the same stuff repackaged without any improvement on the gaming side of the product while the prices continuously increase for no reason. It is impossible to get anyone into the hobby at this point. I'm lucky enough to have two large armies so I can at least keep them around like a boardgame.
Honestly, the combat patrols, price increases, and artificial volume constraints are the main reason why I have no real interest to get into the hobby proper. I'll grab various minatures that go on sale to paint for fun, but given what I've seen, decided that I won't try to actually build an army for the table.
Still don't understand why, if a smaller studio like Wargames Atlantic can sell 20 models for £20, why is a single GW model £20 or more? Do they have skilled artisans hand-carving the plastic or something?
Most based thing I've heard said in a while: "Forget point values, free yourself from that made up value" That's been a growing obsession in the community. I think the misstep going on is the push to make combat patrol a game mode independent of the overall points system. I wish they would either go back to Start Collecting and do a Character, Troop, and unit that exemplifies the playstyle. The Combat Patrol system we seem to have is shelling out backstock and unpopular units. I think the problem GW faces is if they make the popular units a part of the combat patrol with a crazy discount, seasoned players and scalpers just buy them instead of the base box sets. If they make them too shit, new players will buy them and wont have fun with the shitty army composition and rules their combat patrol gets.
"We need to take a stand against this" Ok, I'll stop buying GW in 2014 after decades of raising prices, fomo practices and going after bloggers and retailers for copyright infringment.
You noticed too? Yeah I think the senior design team went to age of sigmar and they have interns doing redesigns for them and say "Good enough." For new stuff or the other stuff do them on the side. Also you said something interesting. You said Combat Patrols are great for beginners and it is still great for beginner but bad for veterans to buy. Look at orks. They where great for everyone and sold out immediatly. Do you think tons of new people come into warhammer 40k? They all played this one faction? I doubt that but veterans bought 2-3 of them so they sold out and new people who wanted to start warhammer was left out like my friend did. We don't know what we will get in that box. We don't know the value of it. It looks cool so we beginner buy and test it.
I feel like GW is banking on everyone buying/painting up/converting Brood Brothers instead of making, y'know, a new unit. They've been talking about how you can have more reinforcements, rules for making them better, tips for converting them in the codex etc. And from a money making standpoint just being able to shove IG stuff into the Genestealer Cults line makes sense
With the US being the biggest market and Warhammer stores spread so, so thin, GW really needs to acknowledge that most people won't ever be playing at their events or locations. So all many US players need are the books and can easily get by with whatever mini's seem appropriate, regardless of the source. At some point they are going to have to become more competitively priced or they risk someone else stepping up to take their place. Whether that's a new game or (more likely) a line of good and affordable alternate minis, their market share is going to slip (or tank).
So here's my tinfoil theory - GW hate having stock sat on shelves, and they have a surplus of 9th edition branded combat patrols as well as some of the less popular kits from various factions. So by making all the 10th edition patrols worse value it ensured they get rid of excess stock. They're also putting a lot of the old Combat Patrols (including the old GSC one btw) in the new Hachette partworks magazine out this August. Which, btw, is what people should do. You can cherry pick individual issues from Forbidden Planet
On the topic of genestealer cults being mostly characters I found out recently that in the space hulk video game the genestealers had extra types such as the scythe-strain genestealers which were big and deadly basically like a small carnifex. How cool would those models be.
The problem with jump packs is that it forces your arms apart. It's the only explanation for why models with jump packs and a weapon in each hand are always posed wide akimbo. No amount of machine spirit seanceing or genetic engineering or warp fuckery can make a jetpack user shoot one target with two guns at the same time.
"As an army we really struggle with anti-vehicle" Do you? I'll have to push back on that, a squad of 10 acolytes coming out of 3 inch deep strike will handily destroy a vehicle with satchel charges. The only way of counterplaying that is either deep strike block or strong overwatch (read: land raider redeemer) and many armies don't have access to that so aside from trying to build 3 inch deep strike screens with their chaff, their vehicles are at your mercy.
Yeah Sisters of Battle is my break point for 10th. Fucked with my unit sizes, losing units I use, and having shit rules support for previous sub factions.
This is why I prefer "ready out of the box" wargaming lately. Cause you get everything you need, unpainted but ready to play right then and there....and most 2 player sets are less than a SINGLE combat patrol.
Do you ever get tired of people trying to tell you how to do something they’ve never done? I love the clickbait titles because it’s obviously gaming the algorithm. What can I say, I like playing games.
This just reinforces my decision to quit 40k three games into 8th edition. Back in 4th and 5th edition boxed sets were actual deals with good model selection. Plus I hate the new rules, with things like command points, flyers, and no force org charts.
I havent got new WH minis in a few months (I only collect for the models, dont play them at all), and it just might stay that way - those price hikes are getting ridiculous. I remember when I was a kid (been a while ago, admitedly) a box of 10 or so saurus would cost 50pln, now a box of 10 units costs around 140pln with 25% discount, MSRP is nearly 200pln >_> Time to get a 3d printer and drop GW minis alltogether...
RE: "Enshittification". The old American term (my Dad uses it) is "The Schlitz effect". Named after a Wisconsin beer manufacturer that was super successful in the Midwest in the 50s-70s.
Some executive wanted to cut costs in the economic downturn of the late 1970s, so they watered down the beer a little with no change in sales. Your average blue collar drinker didn't notice. So they watered it down a little more later. And a little more. Eventually after a few years people noticed "hey, this beer I've been drinking every weekend for 20 years tastes like shit. What happened?"
Schlitz got exposed and had to come clean. They went back to the original recipe but by that point the damage was done, and their loyal customer base had moved on to other beers, and Schlitz never recovered.
This is exactly what's happening now with GW.
(whispers) "GW _§ucks_ now." (whispers) "We *_Know."_*
@@margaretwood152 Did you mean to type $uck$ ...
I was at the shop today and talking with the owner, his rep messaged him about getting "popular" models that the owner said they last checked what was "popular" and sold well in 9th edition. He basically told his rep "why would I order out of date popular models that your just gonna cancel half the order of anyway since you dont have any stock?" about 2 seconds later his rep was trying to call him. The owner is pretty much done trying to sell WH stuff because it's such a pain in the ass to get and he can sell cards faster and for more profit
Gw is in the process of killing local stores. They used to be a place where members of the community would welcome you, introduce you to the hobby. Most places when i was a kid had a whole separate back section of the shop where lengthy tables strewn with terrain had people play introductory games to get a feel for the various Game systems. On other days they'd host painting and building classes to help the less skilled Hobbyists take their first steps.
Now look at their ''no gaming'' policy. They want you to buy your stuff and crawl back to your basement with your own smelly ilk. They know local stores are the better deal for people so they are intentionally making it harder for store runners to actually obtain stock and reliably take orders from people. They also insist on deliberately underproducing stock so they can sell more on their site than people can even get from anywhere else.
@@KneeCapHill yea but the problem is even on their website everything is sold out so I still couldn't buy anything even if I wanted to.
All the new combat patrols are worse that the previous, not only are GW greedy they actively seems to hate collectors as well. The £40-£50 original "start collecting" where an amazing way to get started in an army. Now I just feel like "that's all" and you want how much... f*** off GW.
The battleforces which were the predecessors of the Start Collecting boxes were awesome, if one contained 4 elements and you only wanted 3 it was still worth it.
For example, my first armies were all Chaos Space Marines and the battleforce had 10 CSM, 10 berserkers, 5 possessed and a rhino, all for £50. Given how the Rhino was £40 by itself this was a huge saving despite barely using the possessed at all.
To be fair Custodes combat patrol is better (or at least same level as before), but they just massacred the entire army.
@@hitagi_tore7358 One of the many dangers with this sort of game system, they could keep the Combat Patrol as is but if the new codex is off the box still loses value.
GW have always done this. When i bought my first RHINOs, they came 3 in a box for A$50 then it was A$50 for one. Landraiders were 2 in a box for the same price. Same thing happened to them.
That was when I knew I wouldn't be buying much more of there stuff unless I really liked it or it had better value. My first Spacemarine box was the 30 Beakies for A$30.
That sounds like Rogue Trader days, because I've never seen rhinos or land raiders that cheap and I came into the hobby in 2nd.
@@DirtPoorWargamer It was. The Rogue Trader boxes were incredible value, that's why the game grew as quickly as it did.
I thought well hobbies are just expensive these days until I backed some projects on Kickstarter. Ended up with a ton of same quality plastic figures from Dungeons and Lasers for about $300. If I had gotten that amount of figures from GW it would have cost thousands.
I wish GW would make cool minis WITHOUT terrain on the base... no more rocks, debris, tree stumps, etc. Enough already.
Ya agreed. Huge pain in the arse when you already have a theme for the bases in an existing army
This would be good as a separate kit for those who want a pre-made theme.
Right now I tend to remove most of the terrain bits and repose the minis anyway...
I mean. I used to. 10th edition bs made me stop buying. I am still tempted by some nids but I'll get to paint my friends' tyranid hord for now. I'll wait and see how stuff develops.
I think GW pushed too far.
Me too, I mean look at the Corvin Severax model, that base is ridiculous same with the officio assasins. Also the jump pack assault intercessors look so stupid, they are half a foot off the ground yet are like 45 degrees bent over lol. I loved my jump pack marines just on the base, they looked so cool, who cares if they aren't flying, 50% of the time they aren't gonna be flying anyway. GW's obsession with complexity and unneeded detail is gotten out of hand, also the old hand sculpted models look better than their new computer designed shit.
Minimum effort maximum profit, it's the GW way.
@@karlsilcock8727 GW make stupid decisions even when it doesn't involve profit. Granted most of the stupid decisions are due to profit but stupid is as stupid does LOL. They used to be a great company back in the day.
I have a theory that GW uses like pre-posed "Blank" sculpts that they then put faction-specific components on using digital tools. It'd absolutely explain the near-identical poses and copy-paste look of so many kits.
Makes sense, in a time when a shop offers you to configure a personal mini in your browser, pose and outfit included, imagine what a dedicated workstation can do.
I'm pretty sure that they did this before the digital tools - the old metal necromunda escher characters and old DE sculpts have identical proportions and similar poses. Its just more obvious because there is less hand sculpting to put custom parts on top of those blanks.
Like how the psychophage has a silhouette similar to the venomcrawler daemon engine?
@@fastestdraw The later metal Imperial Guard officers, too. That's where I first noticed it.
The old toy action figure ( He-Man, GI JOE etc ) used do do something like that. Same mold for different figures. Even cross IPs used the same mold sometimes.
Games Workshop: "I hate my fans!"
Players: "We hate Games Workshop!"
Games Workshop: "So, are you going to buy my new thing?"
Players: "...yeah, we will buy it out in seconds."
I really do think that GW is on the verge of a bubble. This constant churn and push is accelerating. Combine this with price hikes, the forcing of new models into huge, expensive boxes, and the backlash of the massive milestone 500th issue not having the mini as part of it, but having a poster inside _that showed all the issues that had minis coming with them._
They're also spread suuuuuuper thin. There's the Amazon show, new merch, the VR game in October, the _Space Marine 2_ game too, and they still have the rest of 10th ed to get through, and half the armies don't have a codex right now and at least two don't even have armies (Votann and Emperor's Children, but historically, definitely more)! This is rapid growth at an unsustainable level and may explain the price rises - they're trying to cover the cost of signing every contact that's slid onto their desk in the last three years.
what a time to get into the hobby
shouldve never gone on the stock market
@@nolader28 not to worry, its been a bad time for at least 5 years
@@nolader28 and with community content, miniatures, lore, animations and rules only becoming more coming, it’s actually a pretty damn hopeful time to get in :)
Games Workshop has very high customer satisfaction compared to other businesses. They're in the Apple realm - expensive but worth it. Typical GW customer has a high spend per year. Zero reason for GW to charge £50 for a Combat Patrol when they're seling out at £75. There's no realism to these discussions.
Back to 3d printing.
Yep. Can’t beat 15 cent minis!
yea they are gonna crash hard from 3d printing. Especially here in america where it's freaking impossible to even buy models if we wanted to. everything is sold out and has been for 5+ months
3D printed miniatures look cheap & nasty
@@bmwofboganville456 some may, many do not. What I do know is that I print some minis that rival GW and they are anywhere from .10 to .20 a mini for 32mm infantry. For those that like forking over $70 for 5 or 10 minis to GW there is certainly nobody stopping you, just not for some of us.
@@bmwofboganville456 you've only seen bad prints then. There are so many prints that look better than gw models
One Page Rules... One Page Rules... One Page Rules... One Page Rules... One Page Rules... One Page Rules... One Page Rules... One Page Rules...
or literally any other fucking war game
@@astrocrab797 Chess... Chess... Chess... Chess... Chess... Chess... Chess... Chess... Chess... Chess... Chess... Chess... Chess...
Insert any historical miniatures game here.
Chess comments are in favour of 40K? Cool!
Are you saying "one page rules" or "one page rules"?
There is a simple answer for your GW pain and it fits on one page.
Welcome to the admech corner where GW forgets about points per dollar and game balance
Sadly this is what happens when a company goes public, and shareholder dividends (and executive stock options tied to salaries) become the priority over good consumer practices. Short term profit becomes the driving force. It just feels so egregious. Especially with 40K. The amount of shit they don't give is on full display. With AoS it feels a little less obvious. Probably because the AoS player base isn't quite so enthralled and obsessive to the "lore" and IP. Yet. One thing the Old World release has brought back for me, is how feckin obsessive a lot of the players were about that game back in the day. Only a matter of time before GW start fully exploiting them again, if they haven't already. I now only buy GW models second hand, but I mostly 3D print for games using OPR, or Xenos Rampant rules. So many great rules systems out there to use our models with.
It's been a good 30 years. Congrats and fuck them
That jump canoness is lazy and insulting. That said, the box would be perfect for me because I need another Exorcist and I don't have any seraphim yet.
Same.
So the entry box is only good if you already play. smh
You realize how shitty that is right? It's a START COLLECTING box, and it fails to do that
Could you imagine giving that box to someone and telling them to try like a 500 point game? "Park this thing behind terrain, fly these units in if they die womp womp you lose" @jtowensbyiii6018
Worst part is: Games Workshop will be rewarded and feel justified in their actions because there are enough peabrains out there to make all of this sell out fast AF instead of going for recasters like wartablegames, cheapnfast etc, so they will keep doing this.
Games Workshop: Announces models.
Discourse Minis: This is the end of Games Workshop.
so True. wish GW would go bust to get her off youtube
correction: this is a HUGE disaster for Warhammer
I find your content to be informative. It should be said I appreciate it. However could your titles and thumbnails be less click baity. I feel you'd find even more success.
She sometimes changes them within the 1st hour, and I don't understand why
NUMBERS :O
i wish the algorithim would favour more obvious titles but it is genuinely the difference of tens of thousands of views :(
@@DiscourseMinis at least you're honest about it, and that's a fair point.
I would possibly recommend doing a short or a video that explains this
I like the titles, doesn't matter to me cause I am watching every video she puts out anyway though.
I like the clear flight stands! It spoke to me when you said the canoness looks like she's falling or hitting an obstacle instead of flying.
To be fair Flight stands in clear plastic are notoriously brittle and what happens usually is players just use metal rods to avoid them braking off during transport or play. They look ok but they are just cheaply made
As a new sisters players, well blessed sisters for OPR, i was hyped to get something new. I was already to head to my FLGS and make some preorders. Then the big let down. Sucks.
Yeah agree
Mandatory algorithm poking comment!
(I really know very little about Warhammer. But it is really fun listening to you talk about it.)
aw thanks :D
The Challenger graphic was in poor taste. That's a photo of 7 people being incinerated. It's a hardly a joke.
My cousin and I started the hobby recently. It's gonna be awkward for us. I picked up my first models at the same time he did. We both got combat patrols. But... I wanted Necrons, he wanted Orks. I got the new 10th edition Necron patrol (which I didn't even know had been recently changed at the time), aaaand he got the old 9th edition Ork patrol. We both have the 10th edition codices. My models have been painted and ready to play for months, he's been slower, but he started painting his today. They're sitting in a box in my room and I am just... I'm just dreading our first game. We've invested a LOT of time and money into this hobby and we haven't even played our first game yet and now I'm starting to wonder if its going to suck. I'm afraid we've been shot in the foot and don't even know it. I'm afraid our interest in this hobby will be killed if these patrols aren't balanced correctly. I've been nervously awaiting my first match, watching all the news as the Ork codex came out and combat patrols started seeing updates and I'm not really feeling confident about playing this game any more. Still, the models are bought and payed for so eventually I guess I'll figure it out when we finally sit down to play. Wish me luck.
Similar story here- got started with combat patrol but with guard. Played 4 games with my brothers necrons CP and he wrecked me every game. I left hating myself for wasting so much money and time.
But I found one page rules and it's all good now. Don't let the GW antics ruin a fun hobby for you guys.
One page rules?
for the cost of 1 combat box and a codex you can now get a 4k resin printer. Blender lets you pose STL's. My sisters army cost me $250, I got to customize those single pose models, and i also still have a resin printer.
and the diversity of low/mid and high quality models you can find online for free or .50-10.00 in every faction with all manner of add ons or alternatively designed heads/helmets/arms/guns/etc. you can even find full vehicles or massive nids for free, resin is reasonably cheap, although getting the ABS-like or similar slightly more expensive flexible resin would be recommended as standard resin can be a little bit fragile. . . printer go brrrrr
The Canoness with the other head also looks like Boris Johnson 😁
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Well Ursula Creed looks like David Gilmour from Pink Floyd so….
He is now Catholic apparently so…
Looks more like a "Mister of Battle".
Smashing use of resources.
It's really annoying how these boxes keep getting smaller, more expensive and less diverse while some of the models remain ugly as sin or incredibly dated. I want to get more necrons but their box is so shitty, I don't need more warriors, spice things up with immortals and new lokust destroyers or something.
This is why I've been looking for alternatives like Turnip28 that allow you to be as creative and cheap as you want
_X scandal has just gone worse!_
_This is a huge disaster for Y!_
There guys, 99% of Discourse Minis' content is done!
3d printer go brrrr
I'm old, somebody please explain wtf "brrrr" means...
@@ironlurker Its just the sound effect of 3D printers running. Means more folks will opt to print and proxy rather than buy.
@@ironlurker th-cam.com/video/T2F-iQYwFX0/w-d-xo.html
Yup my printer at 1 point was running 24-7 printing off my bret army, the only thing I get from GW is the book
Reminds me of that old story of the frog in the pot. GW players suddenly realize they feel hot.
Must be a pot of piss
To answer the Genestealer Cult weakness to vehicles, I would say... tough. As a revolutionary insurgency force, it feels appropriate for Cults to have to take desperate measures against vehicles, or even against organised military forces in general.
this sentiment is how i've been viewing the same space marine variant thats been released every year, multiple times a year for multiple years now....Kicking a DeadHorse
I dunno, with all that vigorous hip thrusting...I don't think that is kicking.
Tabard: A tabard is a type of short coat that was commonly worn by men during the late Middle Ages and early modern period in Europe.
I still laugh that someone in the TTG miniature world decided that minis needed a towel flapping between their legs to slow them down and get tangled up in.
And called it a type of short coat.
With all due respect...to He__ with 40k. It's just chaotic nonsense for kids. Respectable Adults focus on and paint OW models. We understand 40K is a necessary evil as a fundraiser for GW to keep on cracking out Old World models,.and that's really all the news we want. 40k is a disjointed hot mess popular with teenager and scene-bots. No cares given.
This sealed it for me. The lore is amazing! The gameplay seems crunchy to me, but given time I could learn it. But now? With this? Nah. I'll be going elsewhere for wargaming
It kinda makes sense for GW to try shifting models that don't sell as well, but it pisses me off how they treat their launch sets.
>Launch new edition box
>Never resupply once it sells out
>Gut the contents to re-release as a Starter set in three sizes
>Re-sell the gutted models for ludicrous prices as a "key HQ/Elite" set that's online purchase only
>Repackage each side of the Starter set as a Combat Patrol that, together, are just as expensive as the Starter set itself
I already have the Leviathan box, I don't need the exact same mono-pose slot-fit miniatures *_again_* to bulk up my Tyranids or Space Marines, minus a bunch of miniatures - give me cheaper Hormagaunts or Genestealers to build up my swarm, give me easier access to Elites or Fast Attack troops for my Chapter, not re-boxings of the exact same miniatures you can get in the set *_designed to teach you how to play the game!_*
I 100% feel you here Discourse, I also play GSC and Sisters, and both of the Sisters boxes were extremely disappointing to me... I'm a bit happier with the GSC offering, but the new Combat Patrol and Battleforce will finish out my army for me. For new players though, it's terrible. The models are cool, but it's not the functional part of your army - it's a niche subset of the faction.
I'm sure that GW has plans for growing their player base; maybe unleashing a new pandemic on the world to recapture the glory days 2019.
Na, the WORST thing was their reveal stream. They obviously didn't care about the Sisters and just rushed through it to get to GSC. And when the one guy said the "best thing" in the new Sister codex was the Force Organization Chart...that ALSO was in our 8th and 9th Codex? WTF?!
Just curious. Content aside, do you have a single video where the thumbnail isn't you looking vaguely shocked while your hand is on your head?
The laziest thing I reckon they've done this edition is the Space Marine and Tyranid Combat Patrol boxes... They are literally all the push fit minis from the release box(es), rather than a selection of minis you could add to those boxes...
I have to thank GW for making underwhelming models so I don’t have to buy new ones.
I hate to admit it but your right, but we have seen this before - 7th edition. I've been collecting and playing since the end of 2nd edition, so I've seen most of the GW good and bad ideas. The game has been completely changed over time, but the loss of a court case in America and the advent of 3D printing seem the reason for this mono poseed uglyness, but the relentless drive to feed tournament players has killed most of the good and twisted the game. Where is the Ork tech that was as dangerours to them as their target? Why has chaos gone from high risk/high reward character development? My character kill an enermy character, will he turn into a demon price? A Spawn or get some fun new ability? My squad leader failed his Ld test and the Comisser shot him. My hive mind lost it's link to that swarm of guants, will they run or go frenzied? My Farseer is going to melt your generals brain! Why has all the flavoir, relic options and even the tactics gone? I hope they get over the need to attack the fan base over not getting their way, but unless they suffer another 7th edition (GW almost went under, due to value for money and horrible rules) I don't see GW giving a damn. Sorry for the long rant, but GW have it coming.
It seems like you are correct in a lot of these boxes sadly. The only new combat patrol that seems like maybe an improvement or at least a lateral move is the new Tau combat patrol. There are a lot of things in that that would make it rebuyable. Way more so than the last one. But that is like the only one of the new boxes that seems to go against this new trend. Maybe the person who was in charge of the Tau box follows the way of the greater good ;)
The fact that 40k become more and more expensive was the reason my friends and I stopped playing years ago. We simply couldn't afford it anymore.
We found mantic games 5 years ago and fell in love with their board games and Kings of War, Deadzone and Firefight. We even use our old Warhammer and 40k stuff to build and play the armies. And their games are so much better when it comes to value for money. At the price of one tiny combat patrol of 40k you get a whole functioning army for firefight with almost three times more models in it than you get inside a combat patrol box. And you don't need to buy two to four books worth around 100 to 200 € just to get the stats. You buy one book for 40€ and you have everything you need to play the game and every single faction included as there is everything in one book combined. The games are simple to learn and so much fun to play. Don't get me wrong, I think 40k is one of the best settings in Sci-Fi ever. But GW ruins it by just making it almost impossible to play without very very deep pockets...
Every release of 40k enshittifies the game more than the previous. Is' 10th edition as enshitified as it can get? I bet it isn't... we'll see I guess :(
Yep at that same point girl
No more getting new figures anymore
NGL, I love the Necromunda stuff for GSC.
But I hate lot of stuff about 10e. Worse combat patrols, elite customizable shooty faction (Tau) losing range (12" melta, 18" plasma) *and* customability (preset Crisis loadouts) while losing fun characters (Longstrike...) and models (Hazard suits, my beloved Tetras)
So in the end I'm left gathering resources for my ongoing "Chaos cult using GSC rules" kitbash army and slowly making progress when not sick (sadly rare).
Just a rules point...you cant use the necromunda stuff for anything other than necromunda, unless youre playing with your own gaming group that is loose with the rules...in which case you still get better 3D printed models. The necromunda stuff has come out specifically saying that other GSC or nids avoid them as they are genetically corrupted.
@@andrewkennedy9134 Yeah, I know and it's a shame. New rules for new alt units could be fun, even if they were direct downgrades from current lineup
Great information, I loved the compare and contrast you did with the new/old battle boxes. I also agree GW is going down hill, just take a look at the new Chaos Space Marine codex, there are no specific legion traits; and I fear that GW will release an over priced supplement for each non chaos god focused legion.
I work in retail and this is how the world is and it's just going to get worse. I love your posts as the script always gives me a laugh. Keep the great posts going
I've been doing GW mini building and have been playing the game on and off since the early 90s. I've seen a lot of stuff come and go. Not a fan of the mono pose minis at all. They are much harder to kit bash and convert. I'm really glad that I have so many spare mini parts and miniatures that I don't need to bye anything anymore. I'm sorry that your main armies got whose, ma'am. As someone who has played orks forever, I remember what that's like. There was an eight year period that orks had to use the same codex through three editions and no knew minis. I could literally say "My codex came out last millennia" for YEARS of game play. Hopefully they get their shit together and realize people will just get stand ins from Esty for a fraction of the price. I'm not going to hold my breath though.
"Here's two models in power armour and I cannot tell the difference!" my experience of playing against those armies, in a fucking nutshell!
GW can't make up their damn mind if they want stuff to look identical or make stuff stand out. Feels like they are streamlining where they shouldn't while keeping differences that are pointless
@@KneeCapHill when everything is made to stand out, nothing actually ends up standing out.
Older model ranges in power armor did a much better job. Looked similar too, but every unit has its own look.
Honestly at least our Sydonian stilt-tros for Admech you can pick out just because of his ridiculousness and tallness with that new Jump pack character you really couldn't do that from a distance.
And then we also needed some more Cybernetica units but nope stilt Skitarii
Can you have some good news for once?
A combat patrol is not a combat patrol unless it has 500pts in it. There are maybe 5 boxes out of the 22 available that meet this criteria...
Oh, but the fans are the problem when they complain about lore issues?
There is one not awful potential answer to why they're doing this -
They're bleeding off stock so that when they do an "end of times" arc in 40k like they did with old world, it doesn't massively devalue a good portion of the company when all the new models come out.
Today, they're paying out the ass for warehouse space and manufacturing etc. for models for the existing 40k range. All of that is company assets, those assets have a valuation that assumes there's some kind of market interest for those models. If 40k gets a huge change and becomes like, 43k or w/e, and we get huge range refreshes, that devalues all of those assets massively. So the optimal time to do that kind of large scale refresh is when you are floating as little in the way of backstock as you can, so that the potential decrease in valuation is way lower.
Note also they've got that subscription service mag thing coming out soon that hands out a bunch of combat patrols on the cheap, etc - they're definitely clearing stock for SOMETHING.
It would have been a lot better if they kept both Combat Patrol and getting started boxes. We have multiple Space Marine Combat Patrols so they can do it. With both boxes you can more easily build your army, One box for troop fillers and the other for more vehicles/fast attacks.
Thanks for your take on this! Helps keep my head on a swivel so I don't fall into a similar mindset!
It needs to continue being said, 3D printers go brrr.
There are better game rules available and better models available outside of the GW walled garden that cost a tiny fraction of the GW gougefest.
Absolutely. Some of the artists on myminifactory and some of the other services put GW’s minis to shame.
@@CTX-lk8hf I laughed hard when I saw the old world re-release. Using the same old tired models.
Meanwhile my group and I are all printing Highland Miniatures models and playing Kings of War.
That's why its just easier to print out your own. Scan your existing models and vary the pose and weapon layout as desired for each and every model. Not a damn thing GW can do about it as long as you don't sell them.
The army of faith ended up costing about as much as 3 Seraphim-Boxes, and since I'm fairly new to Sisters and wanted a bunch of them anyway, it was kind of a good deal for me. But I absolutely see, that it's really annoying if you already have a bunch of them.
Honestly I prefer the new combat patrol to the previous one, the +20 euro price tag is scummy that's for sure (and yes it's also a lazy box but not unexpected), but for the previous combat patrol, buying one for me was the absolute certainty of having to buy second hand models to fill the various missing minies for all the units (5 repentia, 7 arco, another penitent engine at least) as well as another box of battle sister. I never saw the previous CP as anything more than a 200+ bucks price tag.
Yes a LOT of sisters player are hurt over the new CP, also most of them never had the boarding patrol in hand or never had to buy second hands to fill up their units letting odd numbers outs. That's probably going to have to change in the new codex and then you'll be left in the dust either having to buy those minies right at the same time as everyone else OR you'll have to shelves them for a long time rendering their presence in the old CP absolutely worthless (at least for the arco and repentia)
The battleforce however is so fucking stupid and lazy it's actually unbelivable. a freaking castigator would have been better themed than another EXORCIST IN A FAST FLYING FORCE.
Also I quite like the new jumpack cannonness, but to stay in the utter lazyness of this round of sister release, they quite literally showcased her in her utmost boring loadout... Who ever teh fuck will ever get excited about a mini that look like a random sister superior with her bog standard weapons... Couldn't have started out with the mace and plasma pistol instead?
But clearly the guys at the live REALLY REALLY wanted to get a move on anyway.
I'm quite glad to only pay bolt action nowadays so at least I don't have to worry about the new codex rules. 150 euro is a 1500 points army I can use for years, instead of two and a half units that will barely give me something like 300 pts on average (discounting all the options not on sprue you need to jump through hoops to grab). My sister army is purely a painting and modelism passion project.
Sadly as a sisters player I completely agree with you. It feels like we are cash cows being milked! 🐄💰
Nice video covering just how expensive it is becoming to purchase Warhammer products. Combat Patrols are being ‘rebalanced’ to fit the new Combat Patrol game mode, which I think would be fine if they went back to costing £40-50. So sales of these will fall off in line with new entrants to 40K. I certainly wouldn’t recommend this right now given how expensive it’s become. On the other hand AoS is still expensive but its game philosophy and approach seems way more player focused in comparison and I’m really excited for 4th edition. I think you have a valid point and it feels like the 40K executives are desperate to extract every last dollar from their franchise ignoring the fact they are running their product into the ground!
Is there anything good ? Why collect and play if everything is bad
it's not all bad, many miniatures look good, I love the factions, i love my lil armies, and gameplay can be fun at times :) I like painting a lot of the models. But it's frequently the business that is getting in the way of the joy
Oh now you're complaining about GW and Warhammer? You still consume their products anyway. I already stopped investing in Warhammer since the Lady Custodes thing blew out. I don't know why youtube still recommends me this channel.
"Shitification" is a term used in the stead of Late stage capitalism. Profit can not constantly grow, thats not how sustainable business works. However share holders expect more and more money every quarter, leading to quick schemes to make money that ultimately ruin your company because there is no longer a valued product, but instead money making schemes. usually leads to the consumer base changing products entirely, or stealing/pirating the product they desire.
better question is why does AoS get to keep their old combat patrols(called spearheads) but we lose combat patrols in 40k, also remember start collecting boxes being 80bucks max and being combat patrols before those existed, some are close to identical, but cost twice as much for no reason
also on the space marine and tyranid combat patrols, its even worse, the ultimate starter set comes with both $168 combat patrol, comes with terrain, and it costs 210, so if combat patrols are supposed to be a starting point why is the full on starter box so much better, mind you the combat patrols in there are terrible and the leviathan box was technically better for both and was only like 30 to 40 more then the new box but had no terrain, so if we look at the ultimate starter and treat the combat patrols as zero savings the ultimate box is 50% savings and free terrain, is also brings into question the lower starter set versions, like what the fuck is their price scaling, the standard starter set is 112 and removes your ability to play combat patrol entirely, the intro set is 65 and is just a waste of money, the space marine 2 board game from target came with 23minis and was 40bucks, meanwhile gw is selling a cut down version in a flimsy same size box with half the minis for 65. like none of their pricing makes any fucking sense to even each other in their own ecosystem, its even worse when you look at rules and sculpts, warcrys rules feel like they are given to unpaid and unfed interns that dont know what the models look like or what their theme is, and the last few imperial sculpts have been so god awful compared to their originals
10:08 Same with the new Tau boxset , managed to grab the old one, they're not my main army at all but wanted the old box for the VARIETY! and ghostkeel
I like keeping up with W40K news so I can nod sagely and be smug about having gone with OPR.
(whispers) "GW _§ucks_ now." (whispers) "We *_Know."_*
The price changes and poor combat patrols is leading to a lot of proxy printing in the local gaming scene.
One thing to note about the marine combat patrol
The teleport homer doesn't even have rules. It's a token for an effect that the combat patrol rules delete
LOL! I'm an OG Ork player. Talk to me about losing games. 😂
Wooooo!!! New Discourse content!!! Now I can start my weekend!
Honestly im curious on how they could make a new Space Wolves patrol worse i collect them and i thought it was pretty bad already, i might not like all this but all i can do is stop spending on miniatures and considering my local game store is already suffering it sucks, but also all of its like watching a housefire as it burns just a fascinating destruction
My fav queen of click-bait!
I play around with 3D models and have a ton of generic bits that I tinker with to combine and make new units all the time for Sisters specifically. Maybe I should just apply and do their modelling for them since I can make three units a day!
Putting together a sisters gone khorne army has taught me that buying 3rd party proxies not only looks way better, but is massively cheaper than anything GW has. I was feeling iffy about it until GW announced *another* price increase. I'm looking to primarily get 3rd party stuff from now on.
Please understand this is meant to be rhetorical: are you new here? Ok silliness aside, they have been doing this kind of thing since the 90s. 10th ed is a joke in the same way 5th ed dnd is: everything is simplified down to the point of being nearly the same but they still want you to buy the new shiny and sometimes will make you buy it (cause the old thing you still have doesnt work anymore). I still recall when they moved away from metal to plastic since it was cheaper but at the same time upped the price by quite a lot. Outside of a hand full of things I have only gotten the holiday boxes and even then the 10th ed rules (or at least the roll out) doesnt make me want to get more, not that I ever get to play. Sorry for the ramble rant there.
So I quit table to gaming 10+ years ago when AoS came out, what put me off playing was the direction of GW’s business model, it’s absolutely insane to see how much money is wasted/ invested on this hobby.
I remember that a box of 10 tactical marines was £15 and went to £20, the 2 character models would have been £5 to £7.50 each and 5 terminators would of set you back £25, but what I’ve just seen is a game that’s designed for the rich, tabletop games are no longer accessible for everyone and in a world where parents can’t afford the basic essentials like housing and food , to a hobby coat this, all I can say is go and explore the rest of the world, a flight from the UK to south east Asia return costs around 7 combat patrols, it’s a bad joke how much people spend on this
Let me give you my American examples:
I started buying models at the beginning of 3rd. I could talk my friends into playing by saying "$100 will get you started and the game club has copies of the rulebooks". I could say that because a box of 10 space marines was $25 and a rhino was $25. Character models were around $8 or $9. Avatar of Khaine or Bloodthirsters were only $25.
I remember when dreadnoughts switched to plastic I naively thought that they would go down in price from $35 to $25 because they would be plastic and thus cost less to manufacturer and transport. Instead they went to $45. I was so angry. The club owner tried to calm me down by saying "it has optional front plates and a bunch of weapon options" but I didn't care.
Now? A box of 10 Intercessors is... Well in a few days they'll be over $60. That's 3-5 days of eating out for me. That's a full tank of ..."petrol" and lunch. That's about a week of groceries for me but I'm a single dude and eat simple meals.
Either way, after about 25 years of being in this hobby, and playing almost exclusively 40k, I've started buying 3D sculpts and selling off unfinished projects.
There's no future in Warhammer. It's just an endless cycle of the same stuff repackaged without any improvement on the gaming side of the product while the prices continuously increase for no reason. It is impossible to get anyone into the hobby at this point. I'm lucky enough to have two large armies so I can at least keep them around like a boardgame.
Honestly, the combat patrols, price increases, and artificial volume constraints are the main reason why I have no real interest to get into the hobby proper. I'll grab various minatures that go on sale to paint for fun, but given what I've seen, decided that I won't try to actually build an army for the table.
I should focus on something positive and paint a model instead of wasting nearly 20min on this pointless rant :D
Still don't understand why, if a smaller studio like Wargames Atlantic can sell 20 models for £20, why is a single GW model £20 or more? Do they have skilled artisans hand-carving the plastic or something?
Most based thing I've heard said in a while: "Forget point values, free yourself from that made up value"
That's been a growing obsession in the community. I think the misstep going on is the push to make combat patrol a game mode independent of the overall points system. I wish they would either go back to Start Collecting and do a Character, Troop, and unit that exemplifies the playstyle. The Combat Patrol system we seem to have is shelling out backstock and unpopular units.
I think the problem GW faces is if they make the popular units a part of the combat patrol with a crazy discount, seasoned players and scalpers just buy them instead of the base box sets.
If they make them too shit, new players will buy them and wont have fun with the shitty army composition and rules their combat patrol gets.
"We need to take a stand against this"
Ok, I'll stop buying GW in 2014 after decades of raising prices, fomo practices and going after bloggers and retailers for copyright infringment.
You noticed too? Yeah I think the senior design team went to age of sigmar and they have interns doing redesigns for them and say "Good enough." For new stuff or the other stuff do them on the side.
Also you said something interesting. You said Combat Patrols are great for beginners and it is still great for beginner but bad for veterans to buy. Look at orks. They where great for everyone and sold out immediatly. Do you think tons of new people come into warhammer 40k? They all played this one faction? I doubt that but veterans bought 2-3 of them so they sold out and new people who wanted to start warhammer was left out like my friend did. We don't know what we will get in that box. We don't know the value of it. It looks cool so we beginner buy and test it.
I feel like GW is banking on everyone buying/painting up/converting Brood Brothers instead of making, y'know, a new unit. They've been talking about how you can have more reinforcements, rules for making them better, tips for converting them in the codex etc. And from a money making standpoint just being able to shove IG stuff into the Genestealer Cults line makes sense
That is why I've started designing and 3d printing my own army... Doesn't make sense to buy the new models... I can make them much better and custom!
With the US being the biggest market and Warhammer stores spread so, so thin, GW really needs to acknowledge that most people won't ever be playing at their events or locations. So all many US players need are the books and can easily get by with whatever mini's seem appropriate, regardless of the source. At some point they are going to have to become more competitively priced or they risk someone else stepping up to take their place. Whether that's a new game or (more likely) a line of good and affordable alternate minis, their market share is going to slip (or tank).
So here's my tinfoil theory - GW hate having stock sat on shelves, and they have a surplus of 9th edition branded combat patrols as well as some of the less popular kits from various factions. So by making all the 10th edition patrols worse value it ensured they get rid of excess stock. They're also putting a lot of the old Combat Patrols (including the old GSC one btw) in the new Hachette partworks magazine out this August.
Which, btw, is what people should do. You can cherry pick individual issues from Forbidden Planet
On the topic of genestealer cults being mostly characters I found out recently that in the space hulk video game the genestealers had extra types such as the scythe-strain genestealers which were big and deadly basically like a small carnifex. How cool would those models be.
I agree with you that the boxsets are terribly priced. For me I'm just not going to buy any more 40k. I'm saving myself for Skaventide.
The problem with jump packs is that it forces your arms apart. It's the only explanation for why models with jump packs and a weapon in each hand are always posed wide akimbo. No amount of machine spirit seanceing or genetic engineering or warp fuckery can make a jetpack user shoot one target with two guns at the same time.
"As an army we really struggle with anti-vehicle"
Do you? I'll have to push back on that, a squad of 10 acolytes coming out of 3 inch deep strike will handily destroy a vehicle with satchel charges.
The only way of counterplaying that is either deep strike block or strong overwatch (read: land raider redeemer) and many armies don't have access to that so aside from trying to build 3 inch deep strike screens with their chaff, their vehicles are at your mercy.
Yeah Sisters of Battle is my break point for 10th. Fucked with my unit sizes, losing units I use, and having shit rules support for previous sub factions.
This is why I prefer "ready out of the box" wargaming lately. Cause you get everything you need, unpainted but ready to play right then and there....and most 2 player sets are less than a SINGLE combat patrol.
Went back to my Napoleonic's and I am finding it really liberating. No FOMO, no drop everything and buy the latest thing and no culture war.
Do you ever get tired of people trying to tell you how to do something they’ve never done?
I love the clickbait titles because it’s obviously gaming the algorithm. What can I say, I like playing games.
I like the new combat patrol... I am the weird exception
(actually I preferred the boarding patrol)
This just reinforces my decision to quit 40k three games into 8th edition. Back in 4th and 5th edition boxed sets were actual deals with good model selection. Plus I hate the new rules, with things like command points, flyers, and no force org charts.
I havent got new WH minis in a few months (I only collect for the models, dont play them at all), and it just might stay that way - those price hikes are getting ridiculous. I remember when I was a kid (been a while ago, admitedly) a box of 10 or so saurus would cost 50pln, now a box of 10 units costs around 140pln with 25% discount, MSRP is nearly 200pln >_> Time to get a 3d printer and drop GW minis alltogether...