Harley-Davidson Pan America, KTM 1290 Super Adventure R, BMW R 1250 GS Adventure, Honda Africa Twin
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ค. 2021
- Harley-Davidson's new-for-2021 Pan America is the American brand's first attempt at taking on the class leading BMW R 1250 GS.
But does it deliver? We put the new Harley up against the benchmark GS and two other new-for-2021 models: the KTM 1290 Super Adventure R and Honda's ever popular Africa Twin.
Riding on and off-road, we found ourselves a unanimous winner. But which one takes home the honours? - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
KTM is incredible.
Harley is surprising.
BMW is prestigious.
But there are three simple thing you cant beat Honda Africa Twin in: beauty, reliability and price.
P.S. One more thing - DCT! Excuse me? Others don't have one? Ohhh? I'm so sorry.
Cheers and thanks for great video.
As a 2017 AT driver with DCT This is best comment right here! CHEERS!
It’s my choice for long distance RTW travel. KTM is a joke reliability wise n
I bought the 2022 AT adventure sport DCT - never thought I’d like a Dct let alone own one. The best bike ever - amazing on and off road. Highly recommend it. Just love this bike. 4k miles in.
Which reliability?Rust in the wheels in crf 1000.Problem with the fuel tanks in ATAS..Some models tft problems..All the bikes have issues..We are not in 2000
GS BMW or Africa twin? Which is good ?
KTM has that fun riding charecter irrespective of whatever class it is in.
They are so goddamn fun..🥰🥰🥰🥰😍😍😍😍
Good comparison. on those four. Nothing like doing a ride & drive on the same day. Keeps the experience fresh. Enjoyed the banter and feedback from all riders. One thing that was not mentioned was BMW is the only shaft drive of the bunch. Although on some bikes I love chain for direct immediate power transfer but the BMW is smooth riding.
That Harley is a big step looking forward to see more Harley-Davidson
I was on the market for a new bike, and I ended up buying the KTM... excitement factor 😀 I love every minute spent on it 👍👍
Hey Christian, I am in the market for a new bike and the two I am drooling over are the KTM SAS 1290 and the Honda AT SA manual transmission. Had you ridden both of these particular bikes before you bought? If so, what things did you like and not like about both, that ultimately made your decision on the KTM? Any thoughts/concerns on KTM reliability??
@@danman5857if you’re still deciding I haven’t heard a lot of good about the KTM
I’ve heard a lot of oil pressure issues
@@pulsartech2945 , I am still deciding, but now am waiting until 2024 as there are some rumours on upgrades/improvements to the 2024 Africa Twin. I think that's the direction I am leaning anyways. Thanks for the feedback.
@@danman5857 that’s where I’m leaning as well😂 waiting for the ‘24 twins but it’ll probably be closer to the end of September unless Honda tries to be BLW to the punch.
Really hoping they avoid the supercharger
@@pulsartech2945 , yeah, not sure about the supercharger, but did hear about direct injection (not sure of this is a good thing as it can lead to carbon build up as it does in car engines), but gives more power and maybe better fuel economy, as well as adaptive cruise control and who knows what else. So yeah, waiting for actual release from Honda and go from there.
Totally different tires… apples to oranges?! 👊🏼
I'd like africa twin with second casio dash only and nothing on handlebar, like 2016 one.
Currently have a ktm 390 adventure, sizing up my next bike, leaning pretty hard to the Africa twin. HD and BMW are so much more money
Not surprised with the result - kTM has done a fantastic job refining that bike. Getting the weight down lower + great tech and dash + lower seat height + an ass stomping motor..tough to beat. With that said, if I was riding around the world, no question I’d take the GSA. Shaft drive and a proven motor. KTM says ready to race - they didn’t say how far 😉
I had AT and BMW before. After switching to KTM SAR and now to SAS I'd say there are no better bikes on the market in that segment
Depends on what you want. Pure performance yes but if you factor in reliability and maintenance, then KTM isn't really your best friend.
Not if you plan to do actual long distance travel where reliability and support are priorities.
ktm is more reliable than bmw and this is well documented
@@ajmf-hy8qt please post relevant statistics and sources. Anecdotes are irrelevant.
@@chamade166 search the web for it unless you are blind
Why would you test SAR not SAS in this company? Also where is ducati enduro?
i had the Africa Twin before, i also had the BMW GS, now i have the KTM and it is the best.... (Harley is not an option for me in Europe)
What do you do for the living brother??
@@xplorider_18 Hi,
I have been working with my hands since I was 15,....and building water pipes. 🙂
You have the 1290R now? Like it better than the GS?
@@skipole09
I like the KTM better when riding and visually too.
But looks are a matter of taste.
The engine is simply much sportier.
Many people always talk about the poor quality of KTM, but I can't confirm that at all.
The materials are of high quality and from the best suppliers.
I had 3 GS bikes, but after that I had enough of the cardan drive.
And regarding the famous BMW quality, I can say that I had problems with all 3 BMWs.
The cardan end drive on my second new BMW was broken after 800 km because of an inferior bearing from BMW.........and and and!
So there are quality defects with every brand.
That's why I don't care about the brand, the main thing is that it's a lot of fun, and that's what the KTM is doing.
according to consumer reports bmw is a lot more unreliable than ktm. any thing alse is just shit talking
Soooo the question deserves to be addressed, what about the triumph adventure series? Do you feel that it doesn't even rank?
Why put the basic model Harley up against top spec BMW GSA (not a GS) and the R version of the KTM £000's different in on the road prices. Not a fair comparison IMHO. 160bhp v 150bhp v 135bhp v 100hp mmmm not very fair at all.
Hey Rick. We do feel that these four bikes could be on a buyers shortlist. In terms of the actual spec of the bikes we test, they are supplied by the manufacturers. We can ask them for a specific model, but some turn up in base spec and some with all the options. Ultimately our testers take this into account and it should not impact on the riding experience.
@@CaroleNashInsidebikes I quite agree with your sentiments, but the video came across as a direct comparison, possibly biasing people's attitude. Even a postcript that mentioned the KTM was the pure off road spec and that the S model was unavailable for a more direct comparison with the other bikes. Having the lead commentator riding these bikes with no off road experience, was bound to influence him to a bike that is expressly designed for that purpose.
@@ricktrengove5913 Thanks for your comments, this is our first four bike review and appreciate the feedback. Trust us, we spent hours discussing the bikes while filming, but there's always a balance to be had between producing a watchable and entertaining piece and having a long old ramble in front of the camera! Potential buyers will be happy to know that we have hundreds of written reviews on our website, where there is more opportunity to get into the details of the different models.
@@CaroleNashInsidebikes I rode the four of them as well. Honestly, the electronic suspension on the Harley in the Special edition changes the bike. I did 100km on both versions for a magazine test with both on- and off-road and the Special is a no brainer if you buy an H-D. Character and capability-wise the comparison isn’t going to change and the H-D will still be beaten by the GS and the KTM, but it will feel an even more capable bike.
and again, regardless of everything, people will opt for GSA because simply traveling is the best option, the best combination of road and nature does not tire the driver and co-driver and most importantly ...
If someone gave me any I would be very happy for me they are all great ....
I would say that is the only European brand recognized by non motorcycle enthusiasts. I started with bmw because i didn't knew othe European brand. Also a lot of people I knew in the dealership trips were men with middle life crisis who never had a bike before. I tried other brands and practically all including Japanese drive and behave better than series F and G. R engine is OK but sounds like a tractor, bike is unnecessary big and is very heavy. Wt he'll they used to make it? Cheap iron?
I won't ever go back from ktm, maybe in a future for a triumph or honda. Bmw directives laught at your face when you buy such an expensive bikes with low quality suspensions and anemic engines tbh.
@@licenciadoleopoldocanoloza1144
I have been riding for 30 years, in my driving life I have owned 24 motorcycles (I always have two motorcycles) and I can say that you are talking total nonsense. The GSA is made to be big, to have a great autonomy of crossing km like a person following such a motorcycle, the problem is that people use it as if they are riding hard enduro, and it is not for that purpose, the same as the KTM 1290S, which is no different from the GSA ( except for higher engine power, which is irrelevant for that engine segment)...
To return to maintenance, BMW, like all other brands, has breakdowns, but it also adheres to service actions regardless of the age of the vehicle, unlike Japanese motorcycles, as far as maintenance is concerned, if they are maintained with original parts, the service prices are the same, nothing more expensive with any brand.. .
Sin dudas KTM ❤💪🏻🙌
Well, I am sorry, but comparing the off road capability with very different sets of tires does not seem to make too much sense to me.
KTM must have been soooooo happy when they saw the first press photos of the Harley. "Finally, people will shut up about the look of our bikes!" Yeah, I'm a KTM fan and owner, but still.
I like that Harley look - it's the brutalist design choice. Makes it stand out. The KTM has a face only a mother could love.
Yeah that Harley is one ugly bike :D
Harley sucks
Agree, it really is incredibly ugly!
I love my praying mantis headlight! Honestly, they are stand out bikes
Really? You guys didn't even have the Special trim Pan America?
i know.. how the f they gonna bring the not adv focused one
That is the one I just ordered from my dealer - KTM all the way!
what is the reliability like with the KTM, just a bit concerned if you were touring in the back end of nowhere , a huge fear could be an unexpected breakdown , are its electrics and mechanicals solid and reliable ?
if i needed a garage after a tumble , are garages plentiful to put this bike right ??
Poor reliability. People overlook it because they're so fun to ride if they have to put it in the shop and eat a big repair bill once a year it's worth it. Same with the BMW's because it's a status symbol. I would assume same with the Harley just given Harley's track record with electrical gremlins, and new engine growing pains. Honda or the Yamaha Super Tenere are the only two I would trust around the world without a support crew behind me.
The reality is KTM and BMW just spend more on advertising and promotional stuff. So they tend to love the KTM's and BMW's and find nit picky things on the Japanese bikes. Usually pointed to one of the others unique features, and calling the Japanese motors bland or soft feeling.
@@slimjim7411
I read you mate , I heard what your saying before and the fact nobody answered the question??
Only you , it was a legitimate question, if your travelling all over the back end of nowhere, RELIABILITY IS KING !
And there should ONLY BE ONE WINNER and that is the MOST RELIABLE !
Unless there's something wrong with MY COMMON SENSE ??
@@slimjim7411 reliability on bmw is a lot worse than ktm and this is well documented
but is the KTM as comfortable as the other bikes ? I heard the footpegs are too high ?
Seat to footpeg distance is much greater than on a GS...
@@paulbradshaw9046 thanks 👍🏻
And this my friends is why I ride a ktm. I did a ton of research before I bought my bike and actually chose the 1090 over the 1290 because it’s lighter and I think has an edge off road over the 1290. The ktm is the ONLY true off-road adventure bike!!!
Not if you are looking for actual long distance adventures around the world. It’s good for dicking locally tho.
The BMW bikes are good as well. But they're expensive
Why wouldn't you out the same tires on them all for a better comparison?
It's nice to see the H-D Pan America being brought into the mix in comparative challenges. There may be better examples out there on TH-cam that I didn't come across yet. Clearly, this wasn't a scientific exercise but more the personal feelings of a bunch of guys who clearly had their own likes and dislikes. I'm not doubting the credibility of the testers, although I'm only familiar with them from previous stand-offs, comparisons need to be substantiated with defined tests to get as close to an apples-for-apples comparison. All of the comments were valid, but I also feel they were somewhat bias. Nonetheless, I truly enjoy watching these videos, and thanks for adding in H-D's entry, given that it wasn't hands-down dismissed says that in this test pitched against models with a number of years of market testing and refinement, H-D hasn't done a bad job with their initial entry.
Let us hope Harley improved their reliability, their quality control, and their attitude toward buyers (ever visited a Harley dealer before?). Then I, personally would appreciate HD. I am guessing Harley Davidson will go out of business soon or be bought again like AMF did.
Had them all ..ktm class of it's own and chris birch cant do on the others as he can do on the 1290r .great fun weekend blast or evening for touring the gs is the best easy comfortable ecominmal and your grandparents could ride it but for fun the ktm always the best wish thed make a 1390r it's due I think as they missed something when they made the 1290r not as good as the 1190r but think theres room for improvement so 1390r would be something else again
Biased because they didn’t pick the Harley, or biased because 2 former GS riders picked the KTM? Not sure how you can call that biased.
from what i see. the pan am will take over in this segment in max 10 years.
@@antalya360 As long as H-D takes care of the rough edges, then it'll charm a lot more buyers, although there will always be die hard enthusiasts of other brands that may be impressed but not enough to switch.
Which is the most reliable out in the wild?
BMW Orr Honda
KTM s or r models are designed to handle serious abuse off-road
KTM 1290R 🦾✊🏻💨 f*#ing stonking bike!! I love mine!
For my the GS still in Top , high tecnology , cardan , telelever , paralever ...like from Charles Zoellner Chanel👍👍
Gs is garbage old man bike so ugly
Funny how no one mentioned the Hardly until minute 4:40 of a 7:00 minute video. Tells you how impressed they were by the bike.
You used the base Pan America. Apples and Oranges.
Good catch.
Where is Triumph Tiger
uncompetitive. Redesign coming soon though
The Ktm's looks are a total deal breaker for me.
Same for me..as is the reliability and the maintenence costs....with those in mind the africa twin Is probably the best put of all of them.
Can't believe these aspects weren't even mentioned in this "review"
100%. The Harley actually grows on you, especially in the flesh.
Awesome review, however, you mismatch bikes, since you should have the ktm s model, not the r, that off course is better off road than anything else here. But is also a crappy rude on the road compared to the bmw. I know, I have both! Also the ktm only have 1 years warranty, and the bmw 3 uears.not a fan biu of any bike in particular, Again, I own both bikes!.
This is not quite right. The warranty for KTM is 2 years with us. And after the 2 years there is the option to extend the warranty for another 2 years.
Whole newyork dosen't even have one ktm dealer
Bit of an unfair test - they are not the (UK-spec) stock A41s on the KTM.
Also the Pan America they are using is not the 1250 S with the wire wheels and better tires and better suspension and computer
TBH all of those bikes look like they are straight out of Star Wars, but the HD looks like it's from the dark side.
Harley designed by Buick. That front binnacle is just fugly.
I thought the BMW Dealer network was terrible until we tried to find a KTM dealer 🤷♀️ we definitely won’t be buying a KTM
at least bring the god dam HD pan special version
Fair point, but we can only evaluate what the manufacturers supply to us.
Once you add reliability to the mix the BMW and ktm goes to the bottom of the list, the Harley we don't know yet, the Africa twin just keep going ....
If I had to guess based on Harley’s track record I’d say it’ll be worse than the Africa but better than the KTM and BMW
They should try the DCT AT. I preffer it over their manual version, and I think with the foot shifter the DCT would be the best quickshifter around, with an auto mode for those traffic jams and low speed off road. To be frank, I don't like the busy work of shifting 1-2-3 anyway. I like a good downshift. from 6-5-4. My FZ07 was great cause you just skipped 1 90% of the time, and 2 was long.
Spot on and that's what matters most
People really want 100+ HP on an adventure bike for what? Buy a normal cruiser if you just want to stick to the Tarmac. For me the biggest bottleneck is reliability which sucks with both BMW and KTM, hence it would be AT for me.
You have no idea of bmw reliability,there are no used gs under 50000km and there is lot of rhem with over 100000,gs is bike for overland.
@@ibmujic4764 What a vague understanding of reliability you have. A cheap $2000 will also do 100k+ KM easily if maintained well. Reliability doesn't just mean the bike's ultimate end. It means how often do you need to get it to the workshop (apart from regular maintenance). Having several BMW's, KTM's, Ducati's in my family, I can tell you they all suck when compared to Honda's/Suzuki's.
@@ZaidAzmi i see you don't know what you talking,puting bmw and ducati in same ligue in reliability
@@ibmujic4764 Learn to read english.
@@ZaidAzmi ok,i will
Until then i"ll still ride my bmw and you probably have 12 years so ride a bike
Missing the tiger
KTM RULES
Harley-Davidson PanAmerica 1250 Special… Test Ride H-D Treviso - th-cam.com/video/kwimzpzYnDo/w-d-xo.html
The Harley has no chance…it’s a pig ! Can’t wait for the 22 ktm s to come out !
For me, the AT wins. Not the fastest or best tech. But, stupid reliability, has android/apple auto, and can run on any old hooch you shove in the tank. Doesn't need higher octane fuel.
Was there ever a doubt?🍊
I bought the African twin Dct 2017. Compared to the Triump Tiger 1050 I had before, it is a big disappointment. The engine is rough. It vibrates like an old single cylinder. The Africa twin is an overrated bike. I'm glad I haven't sold the Tiger yet. I will keep them
I don't get this: a professional type of review while this channel only has 854 subs? By the way, just going on looks (why not, that is all I can do as a viewer) the GS wins this hands down.
We all know which is the best performance bike of the four bikes! Obviously Africa Twin..the Paris Dakar winner 🏆..
Oh i did not know AT is 450 ccm...
Try to be reasonable guys. Nothing can beat BMW on road in the big on-off category. Possibly Ducati only, however it's missing from this test. Ktm is a good bike but not all rounder. For off road use thought it's way better than BMW, For sure not better than Africa. Let's be realistic... Except Honda, do u really consider those bikes for off-roading?? I own 1250 gsa, i used to own Ducati multistrada (2015) and i've spent a lot of riding hours on the KTM 1290 (2018). Overall BMW is the winner. For pure off-road use, sorry guys... i will do it with a Yamaha DTWR 200 that i still own since 1994.
Нужен перевод на русский.
GSA, KTMequals big bucks! HD is a friggin Harley. Honda will run forever and not cost you a arm and a leg. Ktm not reliable.
Stop press, an engine with less than 100bhp per litre is reliable - yeah - so is a cement mixer...
ktm is more reliable than bmw
On internet
1. Ktm ( overrated )
2. Bmw
3. Harley
4. Honda ( most hated )
Real sales figures
1. Bmw
2. Honda
3. Ktm
4. Harley
Where is the multistrada v4s??
Let us hope Harley improved their reliability, their quality control, and their attitude toward buyers (ever visited a Harley dealer before?). Then I, personally would appreciate HD. I am guessing Harley Davidson will go out of business soon or be bought again like AMF did.
What about Ducati multistrada v4?😉
KTM or Honda
I can't get past the KTM's headlight. So fugly.
The ktm headlight is so ugly looks like a big fly
Ktm absolutely wins the ugly award 😂
I think I want one for that reason.
Yeah, but you're not looking at the mantle piece while stoking the fire.🤣
The Harley, all the way. The best looking and the most prestigious brand name. KTM is ugly, GS is wayyyy too big, the Honda once you buy it you're stuck with it for life bcos it never breaks.
Most prestigious? Hardly...
@@ClaesN1973 so you recon the KTM or BMW is more famous brand.....
@@ballerblocks Well.. I don't think most prestigious and most famous is necessarily the same.
Like Ferrari is probably more famous than Pagani Zonda, but Pagani is probably the more prestigious of the two.
Regarding motorcycles I have my own opinion, like we all do, but I did a bit of desktop research and I couldn't find any official list of motorcycle brand ranked after prestige, so this is going to be very subjective :)
Ranked after Cap size Honda seems to be the biggest and they do also have a reputation for being quite reliable, but that's not the same as prestigious..
Regarding that I think European motorcycle and car brands are usually regarded to be more prestigious than American brands and out of the top of my head I would probably guess that Ducati would be considered the most prestigious motorcycle brand. I know Ducati is not a part of the review, so of these I would guess on BMW.
I know that HD have a huge world wide fanbase. But in my humble opinion it's a brand connected and signalling a certain lifestyle, that's mostly connected to the US - endless long roads and so on. Though when people love HDs, they really love them and it seems they tend to stick to them forever, where other brands probably doesn't have the same loyalty.
So I don't think defining the most prestigious brand is so easy and I also think there's a lot of difference between the US and here in Europe, but I don't think HD would make the top of the list.
But I could be wrong :)
@@ballerblocks KTM and BMW is far more prestigious than the Harley, KTM is the most successful brand to ever race, it has won the most trophies by far. And BMW has consistently innovated the motorcycling world
@@logangallagher7050 Harley doesn't race, they don't care, when you own a Harley, people know, you have been there done that, Harley's are aspirational bikes. KTM has so much to prove before they enter cult status, take a 10 year old KTM and a Harley. And just look at the resale value. Or the build quality. When you own a Harley, people know you have got other bikes in your garage. When you own a KTM everyone knows that's your only bike bcos (Keep Taking Money) that's what KTM stands for.
🤔…KTM are always a draw, however you just have to accept the niggles & reliability issues that are always present if you purchase KTM … which you shouldn’t for a 17k bike !!
خح
Not fare this guys are Europeans they’ll choose kTM all day long.
KTM ugly, Harley super ugly, GSA too heavy and bulky, more stress off-road than adventure. The Africa is my favorite style nice and off-road handlings are perfect.
No Ducati ?? Not a real test then.
You guys talked a lot, and meanwhile talked nothing.
Ktm and bmw both together are pice💩
Honda never die after 30 years riding bike my first choice is Honda between all of the bikes
Honda all the way, Honda will get you home at the end of the day and continue to do so for a very long time. BMW is the most ugly bike I have ever seen