Does the Harley Davidson Pan Am really compare? | Harley vs BMW vs KTM | Full Review
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- Tip Us To Say Thanks ☕️ | tpjr.us/brakemagazine
Exclusive Content on Patreon 💥 | www.patreon.com/brakemagazine
The Webshop 👕 | shop.brake-magazine.com
The Gear & Cameras I use 🏍 🎥 | kit.co/llelpavey
---
The Harley Davidson is an exciting bike. It's exciting for fans, exciting for the industry and segment and has some cool ideas. It deserves the attention it has received. The moment I got the opportunity I wanted to put it down against some of the best bikes in the 1200cc and over category.
I teamed up with Al and Mike form 44teeth to make this video and had a blast. They're great people and were awesome to film with. It was a pleasure to produce these videos, even if the change of format is tricky to edit into a cohesive review!
Thanks again for watching TH-cam. Like if you enjoyed, subs if you loved it and come say hi on Patreon!
---
00:00 - Intro
00:35 - The Bikes
02:30 - Harley Engine
04:29 - First Off Road Trail
06:02 - Harley Off Road & TC
08:54 - Welcome to Hell
11:32 - Harley On Road
13:07 - Beer
14:29 - Day Two
15:00 - The BMW Off Road
19:48 - The KTM Difference
21:47 - KTM On Road
25:19 - KTM Off Road
27:00 - Summary
29:16 - Please support us on Patreon! - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
For the PAS They should have used off-road custom mode or created a custom mode based on off-road mode. Off-road custom disables the traction control and rear abs. In off-road-custom you can also disable to adaptive ride height for off-roading. The ground clearance issue they speak of for off-road going downhill becomes much less an issue. The adaptive ride height is an awesome feature, but you do have to be aware when you have it on and need to put the jiffy stand down if you are on a slope with the higher part of the slope to your left and the lower part of the slope to your right.
Thanks for this comment. I've pinned it to help others.
I couldn't agree more, Mr. Williams.
Harley started in the dirt and raced on a beach before a wood wall. The historic legacy of Harley predates BMW and KTM. It's nice to see Harley return to their roots.
Google told you wrong bruv
@Justin-vc3qy that's not google. I'm a retired Superbike racer. AMA and WERA. I've raced just about all the NASCAR tracks. Especially Daytona.
Where Harley, Indian, Triumph and others raced a wood wall. And the beach was first. Have a great day and don't listen to China's Google. It's FOS
Enjoyed seeing these bikes actually used in mud and ruts. Most reviews I watch they are on fairly tame gravel roads that just about any bike can handle. Great job!
Glad you liked it. Nice change from the comments telling us we're idiots for using them off road 😂
These bikes aren't made for mud and ruts that's why you don't see it. They are heavy and hefty and if you get stuck in the mud alone you are pretty much fucked. These are just glorified tourers.
@@BrakeMagazine didn’t take long for someone to prove you right
@@BrakeMagazine no, you are testing against what it is claimed these bikes are for. To me, whilst those off-road sections were quite tame, you could have easily layed them down and broken a leg or worse.
I think they CAN be used off-road as you did, but I don't think I would choose them for it.
If you were to load them with any amount of gear, fuel, water, tools, or luxuries like...food or camping gear, once again the physics and balance of already very heavy bikes is made even more dangerous, unstable and potentially top heavy.
For those off-road sections you filmed, they would have been a hoot on 250-600cc bikes, particularly like a WR 400, or any of the old-school XR series.
Laden, and on no more than decent gravel roads, sure those big bikes are lovely.
A good, honest and valuable review. Well done.
@@jimigrill They are made for that mate. And you do see it if you look for it. You won't be able to sprint through the mud like on a lower cc dirtbike. But these big adventure bikes can get through almost anything all be it on a slipping clutch.
‘I didn’t record an intro, because I forgot’. Bloody love this content 👌🏼
Terrific content, well thought out and produced in very challenging conditions. I’m a GSA fan but I’m actually quite happy to see HD joining the AV community with the PA. Competition breeds innovation and HD joining the frey is a positive thing for the ADV MC community at large.
Great review of the new PAN. I have owned one now for 6 months and am surprised that it did so well in the test without the use of the offroad plus mode. I find it a pig without the bike in that mode in loose terrain. Easy to operate in that mode without the bike trying to auto correct traction control and ABS. Can only be accessed when bike at full stop and must be reset every time bike has been shut off (push and hold offroad button until it turns purple). As far as suspension I have been happy, but if you must find something that needs improvement, that is just as good as it doesn’t come with a cup holder.
I agree. I love my GSA but Harley did an outstanding job for a first attempt.
They did. Long may it get better!
Harley is trying to catch up to the 21st century but I think it is too little too late.
@@jimigrill It will take a little while but it's not too late Honda and Yamaha have done
For a bike with pretty much all new tech from Harley I believe they have done a good job on this machine, maybe this competition with bmw will breed better bikes on both sides.mus remember bmw has like 50 years on Harley in this segment
They never have and never will build a production motorcycle good at anything but going slow and sounding obnoxious. They won’t even be around in 2032.
Great vid as always! I’m a KTM fan..owned a bunch of them, but I tried something different. Bought a 21 GS. Very surprised by how much I enjoy it. I thought it might let me down with fun factor, but nope…great bike in my opinion.
But the 1290r is a bad boy also!!
I just wanted to let you know that although I initially played this video just as a morning snack companion, I slurped it like it was a good evening movie. Informative, honest, super pleasant for eyes and ears, and generally fun to watch. Please do continue making these.
Sweet, never thought I’d see my two favourite bike TH-cam channels collaborate
What a nice comment 😁😁
If only Fortnine could go too 😕
Having owned an older GS, loved it. Was going to get a brand new one, the dealer had a KTM1290s as well as the BMW, I thought i would be rude not to at least take it for a ride. After riding the KTM I just couldn't own the new BMW. The Bemmer did everything well, smooth, composed, everything you would expect. The KTM inspires confidence from the moment you get on it, it feels alive in a way the Bemmer just doesn't. It is the naughty school boy, go hard, go down a gear and open me up. I think both bikes are fabulous, its more about the riders personality, the Bemmer is more sensible, the KTM will favor the more confident aggressive rider. I think the Harley will improve over the next few years. For now the KTM works for me, love it.
Only the 1290?
What do you think about second hand 1190?
👍👍Thanks for great content as always. No one is selling their GS's or KTM's to buy the H-D. It's just not there. But, H-D loyalists are buying it in spades. Despite their marketing hype, I think that's what H-D really wanted. If H-D really wants to be in this segment, they will have to throw away their own rule book and start from scratch.
As someone who only owns a couple cheap Japanese bikes and sees the Euro big twin ADVs as aspirational, H-D is certainly getting a look from me when the time comes for an upgrade so long as long-term reliability and dealer support stay solid. Though I'll be curious to see what the market even looks like in a few years' time when that happens
The amount of GS owners who actually take their bike off the road means the HD is a good alternative. It looks awesome too
As a current PAS owner and former GSA owner I think this is spot on. The things I see folks doing to this bike makes me shake my head. I’ve also come to realize most owners are H-D loyalists who won’t take it off road. I also wonder if I made the right choice and would have been better served going with another GS/GSA.
Harley messed up when they killed Buell. The Ulysses, although not a great off road bike, was way better than this. The KTM is the best off road bike in this test, GS second, and the Ulysses was a distant third. The Ulysses was way more reliable and about a third of the price to maintain as well as much easier to work on.
@@haviland586 i own a uly and they are not that reliable, it would be if it had better electronics and fuel injection. pan America out performs it in every way except for weight
First time watcher. Excellent review,very entertaining and great backing tracks. I'm subscribed now
In the end your video turned out exactly what I thought it would be. Nice video
Really great video. Easy to listen to, very frank, moves at a great pace. Thank you!
Nice comparison video. I was lucky enough to take a Pan America around the course at the ABR festival at Ragley hall. It was a very capable off road behemoth of a bike. I haven't ridden either of the other two so cannot compare them, however with all the electronic wizardry the HD seemed as capable if not more so on the course than my 19 year old 1150GS.
Amazing comparison and review. On road, off road, and detailed breakdown all with great edits. I think this video is gonna give you many more sub's. Thanks for posting!! 🔥💪
I hope so. We're grafting for it over here 🤣🤣
Amazing job! Truly appreciate the perspective on the feeling of the traction and suspension. Most reviews just say its soft or hard or whatever and put it aside. Awesome ride you guys had!
Thanks Daniel. Appreciated
Nice review, I very much liked you music choice.
Was surprised to see a collab with the lads, I've been subbed to the 44teeth channel for a bit now, yours is one I hadn't encountered yet but glad I did now. The YT algorithm gods have done well to serve me your video.
You've put these bikes on some hard off-road so well done on your part.
Cheers
Thanks! I'm enjoying adding road trip vibes to the videos at the moment. 😊
Welcome to the channel too. 😊👌
If I can be so bold, I'd recommend whatching our Husky project bike series for some similar music (especially episode two).
Well done guys for putting up with the rain and I know how hard lanes like those are, even on a much smaller bike. I’d love to have seen the Africa Twin in the test.
Always really great narration, thanks.
I can really appreciate what you said about the KTM feeling connected to the road. I have the 2018 S model, with sticky tires and -1 tooth on the gearbox socket, it's a great toy while still being able to cruise for hundreds of km. I like the GS, but at least the slightly older models felt too soft for me whereas the sport suspension settings make the KTM stiffer than most roadsters, on twisty roads it's a lot of fun.
I love 44 teeth! Good to see y'all collab with them. Good, talented guys over there.
That’s some serious hard riding and trails. Hats off 🎩
Llel, Lovely report, so glad to see the monsoon conditions haven't changed since I rode the GWT Sept 20, :) Like you said , some of those lanes are a bit of a challenge on bigger toys ( we had a 790 R and a T7), absolutely loved the hill climb by Fingals bridge. Let us know when its dried out a bit, we'll come and have another go.
It might be a little while yet 🤣🤣
This was a fantastic review of all three motorcycle’s. My question is… did you play with the H.D. settings at all. It has a off-road hard suspension setting and multiple settings that allow for more tire and suspension feedback.
It’s seems like they didn’t use any modes at all on the PA. I ride the PA in the rain all the time in rain mode never had trouble with traction in the rain.
I went to try HD but it went up pretty tall to me. I am waiting the fully loaded version to have the lowering suspension. On my CB500X I am ball of my toes but kind of used to it. With this one I could touch the ground with my two feet.
Great video as always.
doing a legit job, homey. keep it up. subbed
Nice film Lel, really enjoyed watching that, can’t believe you took the Harley through that lot!! 😂
If they'll et me I'll take any bike anywhere I can 🤣
KTM crew checking in.
What an awesome video Llel, well done!! 👍👍
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching!
I'm glad to see that HD has entered an entirely new motorcycling segment. I believe that the loyal HD riders will keep it going and Harley will make improvements refining the Pan America into a true world-class ADV bike.
KTM & BMW will run away from Harley in the dirt....watch !
@@davidvanbrunt4233 I don't doubt that a bit, those two companies have more experience building ADV bikes. It will take time for Harley to catch up, look how long it took for Triumph to catch up.
@@BobPruett Harley needs to go to Dakar, quickest way to learn...
@@davidvanbrunt4233 they’re already in the Rally’s with them. It’ll be Dakar time very soon no doubt. Bike is setup more for rally’s than quirky green lanes imo.
@@nickw8071 can't wait to see it....
Excellent review.
I like how you talked about bike feel and feed back from road or dirt. Knowing how far you push before losing it. No one ever talks about. If your experienced rider that's very important to have that feed back, dry or wet weather.
Thanks for the excellent comments and honest review.
Thanks Dale. I think it's important for everyone even if they haven't noticed it yet.
Thanks for watching!
Epic! Really enjoyed this 👍👍
Thanks!
Brillant. Really enjoyed the review and got a lot out of it
Quality content 🔥🔥🔥 well done, subbed 👍✌️
Thanks Ralf.
The PANAMERICA 1250 special has arrived in the top class of adventure motorcycles.
Since 26.06.2020 I own a PAN Special beside my BMW GS 1250 HPA.
With my friends from K+M Harleyworld we got startet with the project 1-100.000 km. Our
vision is to check the usability, the reliability and the sustainability of the new HD Motorcycle.
Challenge 1 and 2 related to the usability and reliability was already completed end of October. We mounted a lot of useful stuff to make the Pan really usable for off-road adventures. Therefore a lot of innovations are mounted on my PAN „Elvis“ to make it fit for purpose. Then we crossed all high alp passes on gravel and asphalt in July. In August we went to the island of corse to cross also all high passes under high temperature conditions (40 degrees or hotter outside temp) At least my PAN has felt sand under its tyres for the first time. In September / October we got started with challenge 2. We moved to Morocco to the high Atlas region. We crossed all high Atlas passes including the Col de Ouano on gravel, we circled the big duna of Erg Chebbi on old rally Dakar tracks and we checked out heavy city traffic under high temperature conditions. Result: The PAN collected during 4 month almost 30577 km on its meter. Almost 15% of this driven kilometers where been carried out on unsaved roads, mud, gravel or sand. So unter the line the PAN made it on all playgrounds where the competitor brands usually run their shows. This without breakdown or other serious problems…..
On 31st October, I have shipped my PAN to Chile. On 3rd of January 2022 I will start my adventure „all the way up“ riding the Panamericana highway from Argentina to Alaska. This last and long lasting test is mainly relayed to the point sustainability. Chapeau Harley at this point…
If you are interested, check out Biker.Jo on TH-cam or Instagram …KR Jo
Great review man !
Thanks Dave!
Good video. I have a KTM and absolutely love it. Those hills with loose rocks are very difficult.
Depends on a few things but they were tricky enough to be fun!
Very happy with my PA- sold my 1200 tiger, this feels way more nimble on road- mainly bought this for light offroad and touring ( I'm tall)- none of the trouble some keep reporting online...so far!!
I think the PA is realistically a pretty decent upgrade on the current 1200 tiger.
Really well done video and review. Thank You
Great vid! Love all your vids honestly 💪🏽However I see a lot of people testing the PA not knowing how to unlock the offroad+ settings. Without this setting unlocked, the PA sucks when you hit the trails.
I do agree there is still a lot of room for improvements, but it's a lot better then you think. Main reason use the right settings second it takes time to get to know this bike a weekend test doesnt cut it compared to bikes you ride for years.
I own the Pan Am special with a lot of mods, since it came out in NL. Now 8.000km in with 4.000 offroad km's (50/50). I have a lot of experience pre-PA.
I absolutely love the pan am! I will trade it in for the next version for sure, no reason to go back to other brands.
I don't own any of these. I ride a Hayabusa. One thing i find about motorcycle reviews is that most reviews always fail to give a proper review, because the operator always wants to judge a bike based on its performance. People in America don't buy bikes based on the handling or the engine output performance. Bikes are purchased based on the overall look, feel, sound, and purpose. To review a street bike, that is sold for people riding on the street, it's important to remember why people ride bikes. People buying new showroom floor bikes aren't going to try to ruin their bike by riding it on the most impossible trails that aren't even passable. The point is, a proper motorcycle review looks at the overall package, and not just one single factor or one single ability of the bike. Soft suspension and having "good comfort" are not negatives, they are positives. Note, the riders in this video even admitted the Harley engine is smoother. So you have a bike with a smoother engine, and with softer, more comfortable suspension. Those are huge selling points for a street legal motorcycle used for long distance riding.
Well spoken Sir!
“Harley and the Davidsons” Nice Miniseries about the History of Harley!
Great video… fair overall comments & conclusion 👍🏴🥃
Thanks Bill
What a great product this video. Congrats and thanks so much fro. Costa Rica 🏍🇨🇷
Our pleasure!
Enjoyed the reviews & lol riding with you all. Did a lot of this type riding over my life. I’m now a lot closer to 60 then 40 years of age. For my type of riding & where I will spend more riding time the Harley’s strengths & weaknesses play well. I’d enjoy any of the three and appreciate its particular strengths or quirks. Having a good local HD dealership to work with I’m going to add another HD to the stable. Before HD came out with this bike I had been eyeing the 1290. Thanks for taking us along on the ride and sharing your thoughts & experiences.
Very helpful review. It prompted me to go and see the Harley firsthand. I did buy the KTM super adventure r instead. However I Would consider the next gen Harley. They nearly hit a home run.
It seems to me the best thing about the HD is that it could bring more street riders that love Harley’s into the ADV world. As a big brand with resources, they will undoubtedly improve the Pan America over the medium term, and it may even be the bike that keeps the MoCo afloat. Their rider demographics suck long term unless this bike or the Livewire can bring in younger buyers.
All that said, this review is definitely putting highly skilled riders on these bikes and taking them to their limits. Most riders will not take most of these bikes on anything worse than a forest service road, where the HD would probably place a less distant third. Still third, but not so obviously the wrong bike for the mission.
Keep up the good work, and I look forward to your next video!
Cheers!
I totally agree with your first points. The point about higher skilled riders is an interesting one.
I think it's one of the benefits of having a little more skill is that I'm able to feel where a hike is easier or not so easy and how that affects the use for all abilities.
I did also ride the Harley at Press Intro on dirt roads and I'd say the gap was about the same.
Thanks for the comment!
Great video. Very good mix of technical data and feel. Seems like the GS still comes out on top but great to see KTM continue to improve its bikes and HD get into the ring. All this will only benefit us consumers.
This. Totally agree and stoked about it.
This was excellent, thanks!
My pleasure Henrik!
Very informative great video 👍
I have a GS Adventure. I don’t like riding in dirt at all. I just love the bike for how fun and smooth it is on the road.
Amen. Stunning street bike.
Great work sir!!!! Props for beasting the crap weather! Good gear pays dividends
Awesome video, great to see Boothy and Al working with you.
I was wondering why you wouldnt have taken your Multistrada Enduro along too, how do you feel it compares with these 3?
We wanted a V4 to go with it but they didn't have any spoked wheels.
I like the Enduro, it's nice. Has some limitations but it's a really fun bike!
Fun vid. Cool bikes. Interesting comparrison.
Thanks man! How's the challenge going?
@@BrakeMagazine Cheers for asking, a couple have people have said they'd give it a go. No-one has posted yet. I'm still hopeful it could gain some traction... (no pun intended). I don't know if people got it or not. The original vid with the guy doing 'feet up J-turns' is the standard to aim for (with anything else that is cool added in). Mine is the response. I was kind of hoping my lame-ish attempt would convince people that they could do it better. I know you guys would smash it. Cheers Campbell - A fan from NZ :)
excellent review, video is awesome. I had the 1250GS for two weeks on the road in France with my wife as pillion, 1600 miles. On road I loved it, but my MTS950 is much more fun. Did not miss the heat my Duc throughs on any day. Will have to better my off road skills on the MTS, because the 1250GS just did not do it completely for me. The 1250GS was much more comfortable especially with pillion and offers much more ability in all aspects but the motor did not get in my head as the Duc. The HD is cool for sure and I think you called it perfectly with this comparison. What a great review, really well said and done. Best review for these three I have seen, heard or read. Thank you.
Really informative video - having only ridden a GSA as anything near this class of battleships and as a former MT-09 Tracer owner I`d say you are completely crazy to push these machines throught that terrain - this I simply would never dare....
I am looking at the Harley PA as a future bike, have been for a while, and this comparison reinforces my belief that for my exclusively on-road type of riding that would be the correct choice.
Thanks, subscribed!
Well done! I’m on my 4th GS and looking forward to a 2021+ in the near future.
I got the PAN AM for light off-road use and touring. I like the upright position for long hauls.
You mad lads! I look forward to Stratham and Boothy's perspective in their video. Honestly, 200kg wet should be the max for that kind of off-road shenanigans. Hell, some would say even that is too heavy..
Great video as always!
Some may say that but I'd say they're wrong. The level of fun would've been very different on a little bike 🤣
@@BrakeMagazine True. 😉
This is going to be a blast to watch on night shift 👍👍👍
"British experience" - have a similar one living in the Seattle area. Some of those muddy trails look like parts of my commute on a bad day! Exaggerating, but not by much. Thanks for the informative video!
Awesome video guys
Thanks 😊
Ole' John Deacs territory methinks. Great review Llel. Great lanes in the South West
For sure I reckon it is 👌Thabks for the kind words DT!
Great video! Shame up here in Scotland there are no green lanes as all the land has private land owners. Keep up the great reviews 🏴🤘🏻🏴
Well done!
Interesting how you described exactly what I experienced. The 1290R really does make you feel you are going fast and the GS does lul you into this false feeling of safety and not going fast, while you really still are going fast. I was trying to put it to words myself, but this does describe it very well.
Thanks Arne. It's a crazy feeling that we only really figured out doing drag races 🤣
@@BrakeMagazine I tested all three bikes extensively and it was obvious that the KTM and the BMW had the edge over the H-D. But I loved both the 1250 and the 1290. There was just something that I couldn’t put my finger on. I put it down to the low rev pull of the GS vs the high end power of the KTM. But as soon as I heard your description, that was exactly what I felt.
And you obviously need to drag race these bikes. 🤣
Frankly, I'd rather be aware I was going fast, any day, than be lulled into going faster than I intended to. I don't think that characteristic of the GS is a good thing. At all. Feeling is everything in a motorcycle, be it on road or muddy trail.
@@tonebonetones Well, I’ve got great feeling on my GS as well as that I have great feeling on my KTM. However, they are different. Never have I felt unsafe at any speed on my GS. (Not that I would go too fast, obviously officer…)
gs is probably the safest adventure bike you can buy -perhaps of any bike. it's very forgiving. very few people ever approach the limits of the gs. it's not a lack of feel. it's because the rider is well within the comfort zone of the gs and so there's no concern. push the limits of the gs and she'll give you feedback. gs is so incredibly well balanced. as the reviewer mentioned, the gs doesn't make sense. it shouldn't do what it does and it does it with ease.
As someone who owns an HD PAS i was very interested to see your review.
I was surprised about your comments regarding front end grip. What tyres were you using? I don’t ride much in the wet admittedly, but the roads here in the Kansas City area have very low grip compared to UK roads and my bike has exceptional front end grip compared to my other bikes (Rocket 3, CB1000R, Street Twin).
I don’t think HD designed the bike for “long way round” style off-roading even though it was obvious the “Long Way Up” bikes were Livewires’ with Pan Am front ends and rear swing arms/suspension. All their marketing shows it running in the desert or forest fire roads. Which is what most people do here in the US.
Great review, just in case you thought i was criticizing.
We tested in the two OEM Recommended tyres. The off-road one was the Micheline Anakee Wild and the road tyre I don't remember sorry. It's mostly in the wet that it gives that feeling. In the dry it feels good.
Great review. Thanks for the in depth insights. That KTM is awesome.
Quality vid lel two thumbs up!
Thanks Kim!
Great video!! Would have been nice to see the new Multi!!
We tried so hard to get it 😔😔
It would have been nice to see Baron join you guys on his GSXR 😁
Great video! In my dreams, I see a “Top Gear” of motorcycles show with you and the 44Teeth crew. What an amazing thing that would be.
Could be a rad thing. I could be the nerdy unfunny one 🤣🤣
Great video. I sometimes wonder if the GS leaves me believing that I'm better than I actually am 🙃
Amazing video
This is a great video. Needs a better title though so people are aware the 1290 and 1250GS are reviewed here as well.
Noted. Thanks for the feedback.
Just an excellent review. Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Loved your video, Subscribed 💐👍
Thanks!
I have a Pan America and at first yes it feels different but after 1000 miles and got used to how it does things it’s an absolutely weapon on the road so stable and flickable, in the wet in rain rode or road the most secure bike I’ve ever ridden in OE tyres.
I’ve not done off road yet but not what I bought it for really as want a fast touring machine with plush suspension which the Pan America does so well.
I have over 30 years of riding experience on and off road and personally I love this bike and it’s lesser things it does I forgive as a first attempt by HD and what a first attempt!!
I'm not surprised by your comment here Stuart. It's a bike I grew into quite a lot and when I knew what it was doing, it was fast and really enjoyable on the road.
I'm surprised by your comfort in the wet though! That wasn't something I found yet. Have you changed your electronic settings much? It might help others if you share them 😊
@@BrakeMagazine no but I have the standard tyres not the off road tyres which once scrubbed in and around 500 miles on are excellent.
I find road mode excellent in all but that horrible damp but not wet situation where rain mode is better.
It’s all about relax and be smooth and let the lovely mid range do it’s magic.
BTW TC is turned off by pushing the TC button on the RH switchgear for 1 sec and also you can select off road soft or off road hard in the settings which you may have preferred
In my opinion as someone who has been riding for 25+ years, I think engine smoothness, the aesthetic looks, engine sound, power delivery, and comfort, are more important than handling. I really believe that less than 2% of ADV bike riders (at least in the USA) will use their new showroom floor bikes on super technical, level 10+ black diamond trails. I bought a 2002 Ninja 600 ZX-6R in 2002, because it was the least powerful, had the worst handling, but it had the most refined engine, the most torque, and it was by far the most comfortable bike. If you judge a bike on a single test of it's capabilities in abnormal conditions that most people won't ever encounter, then it's not really a proper test. Comfort and engine smoothness trump everything else for the majority of riders. This was an excellent video, but it also scared the hell out of me. It was so beautiful, but that terrain looks physically exhausting and stressful to ride on! Thank you for the footage and expert level reviews.
As most riders with adventure bike will never ever get this extreme ..its really what model you like and can afford...harley need a big thumbs up for 1st atempt.... but whether you agree or not gs doz amazing job (im vstrom 1050 xt owner) nearly half the value of my mates gs.....horses for coarses folks....cracking honest vid...
Thanks for the nice comment!
I think there are riders that do push the limits, which is why the bikes keep getting better.
Additionally, some riders want the "bench race" winner, even if they personally won't push them, and that's ok too.
I don't think "most riders won't..." is an argument against making a good bike.
Great video. Can I ask you witch Fox jacket you are using in the video? It's a very nice jacket .
A pesar de entender muy poco el idioma inglés, me entretuve mucho viendo el video, obviamente me quedo con la 1250 GS y con un espejo no se queda atrás, buena producción, felicitaciones desde Chile
Muchas gracias Eliseo, la 1250 GS es una buena eleccíon. :)
I would just like to see that Africa twin in this comparison yeah it's way down on power but it's a very balanced bike all the way around & does pretty damn good off-road especially the newer model adventure sport 👍👍 badass review
In offroad MODE the big bikes have their power reduced a lot anyway.
I owned a 2019 Africa Twin and found it a little tall for me. I ride about 50/50 and I loved it off-road, but on the street stopping and going the seat height was to much. I’m 6’ 2” with a 34 inseam.
@@bartlawhorn9599 I think the newer one you can lower the seat height down I'm a skinny fucker but I'm 6 ft tall and I could ride it okay. I like my little CRF250L rally way better because my buddy and I just go Cruise all around mostly City riding but if we can find trails we hit them too. Africa twin it's just a big ass bike not really trying to ride it off road too much, hard for me to control that big bike if something happens and it's also expensive to repair I had the real good skid plates and crash bars from Alt-rider
These bikes are for riding from Florida to Alaska & camping a couple miles down a gravel/dirt road along the way, not for riding off road from Naples FL to Miami crossing the Everglades.
Good thing we didn't try that then 🤣
Thanks lev, this is great. What tires did you have on the GS?
BMW, Ktm, Ducati, and Triumph have literally decades of experience between them making large displacement adventure bikes. There is no way in hell I would put down $25,000 on a bike from a company’s first attempt. I’m not anti-HD. I would consider the PA maybe in a couple of years once they have more experience building this type of bike. But for now, no way.
You're right. But it does appear that Harley is known for having good engines. I've never heard or seen a Harley broke down on the side of the road with a failed oil pump or failed electronics. The Pan America has had a few small glitches, but I've not heard a single complaint about the engine having issues. Some motorcycles over the years have had bad oil pumps, and bad oil sump designs, and their engine will lock up going down the road. Or the DR650, the screws for the neutral indicator can fall out into the oil sump and destroy the engine. I think the Pan America actually has a pretty good reputation already at this point, considering how many have been sold, and how few complaints you read about. But the first year model of any motorcycle is a bad, bad idea.
FINALLY someone answers the obvious question of what happens with the auto-height thing in deep mud! Great collaboration!
If you stop it's not good. It also tipped me off balance quite a few times.
@@BrakeMagazine You can set it for delay or lock it out entirely as well in customized modes.
@@BrakeMagazine you could of just turned it off.
@@terenceokeeffesmotorcyclestuff except we didn't know that until it was beached 🤣🤣
@Brake Magazine How do you make a living doing this? Geez, at least learn about the bike before operating it. Don't blame the bike for your incompetence. You all should correct the record here. It does have flaws. You all haven't even pointed out the biggest flaws it has yet. You're just bashing it on items you're ignorant on. How about the cooling fins directly behind the front tire? I'm not even an HD fan boy. I own a 2015 KTM 690R Enduro. I just want an honest review of what's out there, and this channel is missing the mark. Disappointing.
beautiful review, cheers from Croatia. You should come and visit if u already haven't been. On motorcycle obviously
Nice RST suit same as mine
Great review, particularly on the HDPA. I tried one at our rally in Sep on a long dirt circuit I know well and scouted the day before; nothing more difficult than it was designed for. Scary fast but also stable I think due to a longer wheelbase and steering damper. What I find most interesting is the impact HD will have on the industry as well as the culture shock mixing the two very different customer bases. Great first bike for HD but I’d probably pick the KTM.
Totally agree with this man. 👌 I hope that it's a turning point for them and the industry. We're seeing so many cool bike right now and it's rad.
You are doing great research and efforts there, just add simple accessories to your work, like a hydrophobic film on your gopro lens and you'll be good to go 🤞🍀
Very good versus
You're welcome. Thanks for watching!
Welcome to the Party - Harley!
But - seriously - the real test if LONGEVITY! That’s where the engineering either keeps you going or dumps you in a ditch mileages away from AAA 😏
Now, bring the bikes and boys over here to the U.S. and ride the TAT. Fantastic video, really enjoyed it. PS why does your government punish you with those license plates 😂
Very fast now friends it’s perfect 👍
Nice review. I'm sure there are other places to find the objective characteristics of these bikes, but I'd like to know at least the weight of each. I'll offer guesses - for off-road.
H-D Pan Am: Too heavy.
BMW 1250 GS: Too heavy.
KTM 1290 Super Adventure: Too Heavy.
I'm basing this on the weight of the bike bike I've been riding for the last six years, a KTM 1190 Adventure: Too heavy.
Used selectively, the power that comes with the weight can be a lot of fun. I'll stop on a deserted country road and take my 1190 from zero to 100 or 110 (MPH). But I'm now looking for another bike and I'm leaning toward a KTM 690 Enduro 'R' - about 75 HP and 325 pounds. A friend is pushing for a Yamaha Tenere' 700, which also has about 75 HP, but it takes a second cylinder and over an extra 100 pounds to get it.
I mean, that depends on what you're looking to do with it vs your skill level really. There are a as many downsides to lowering the weight as there are in positives. We have a T7 project coming out shortly that might change your mind.
I also made a project comparison video in Iceland with a 790 and 690. With the riding in Iceland the comparison falls the other way of what your describing but I get your point.
Excellent work Mr Pavey! It’s also fun to see the 44Teeth (clowns) collaborating in the test.
I was very grateful for their involvement!
Excellent analysis.Pity you cant do a test like this in SA where getting to dirt roads of any type is a breeze.Thanks
We quite often run winter tests in the Portugal which is pretty similar and endless. Considering we shot this in late summer it should have been better but hey, UK 😂
Riding on centuries old 2 track roads. Priceless.
Pretty cool hey.
Yay for Boothy and Al!
Yay for Boothy and Al