Please Consider Subscribing for more content in the Future! Edit: I love y’all discourse those that agree and disagree with my takes. I’m not gonna sit down to read every single one but I respect y’all opinions and I’m glad I could start a discourse with some of y’all.
I don't like how vegito is characterized at all in multiverse. I feel like he is disrespected and him being genuinely angry at bra during her rampage makes sense. However the writers turned around the tides and make him somehow seen as the bad guy. Really really weak writing
@@TahjPollockits fr so weird that Bra did a Majin Vegeta and Vegito, who is literally 50% composed of someone who literally went through the exact same thing, decided that to stop her he needed to knock some sense into her, only for everyone else to go "hey dude don't hit your daughter you're kind of a dick" is odd. Like Vegito would remember giving into malice like that right? He more than anyone would understand why her giving into her malice for power is one of the worst things you can do
@@Subpar1O1 Worst part of it all is that We're SHOWN Vegito practically tried his best with her and ONLY threatened her after she blew up a planet and HER BROTHER and basically laughed it off, and people try to play it off as Vegito being a bad father
@@TahjPollockyea cause shes a little kid with insane power that clouds her mind. I understand vegito is in the right about feeling that bra is a monster but we can't place all the blame on bra. vegito being snarky and cocky and having that underlying fear of eventually getting surpassed is the reason she turns out this way. Instead of having patience and nurturing his daughter he chooses to push her away and tells her constantly that she's only alive cause he lets her be and that one day he'll kill her. It's actually really good writing if you look deeper into it. It's masked behind the fact that bra is too strong for her own good but if you read between the lines you see just how insecure vegito is about being the strongest cause even when it isn't about bra, you see it in other scene where vegito feels like he has to be the center of attention or strongest in the room to feel validated,bra learns that way of thinking from him.
Also there is the fact they retconned what actually happened in order to give Bra more sympathy. Babidi didn't snatch her up in her sleep, the original story the comic is drawn too has him promise her power and she willingly agrees, but unlike Vegeta she completely surrendered to his control. Vegito's reaction is also pretty justified, you gut your own family members just to prove a point after years of her being just as volatile a monster as any of their enemies. By all accounts she should be put down. Multiverse making Vegito a massive asshole is the overall weirder thing since they're not consistent with it at all.
@@godzillakingofthemonsters5812 I didn't realize they changed it. I only knew of her doing it willingly. I always figured her and vegito were never meant to be in line with how they would act in our canon (bra being non-existent). As for how vegito acts it is very strange but I figure we just haven't gotten to see exactly is what's making him tick. I agree that she should be put down but that's not the DB way. She's a child of the heroes she's going to be given more leeway than someone like Vegeta or piccolo who murdered countless and started off as villains. Her actions aren't justifiable but don't seem to deviate from what she was consistently shown as, power hungry and ignorant. As long as you keep the giving herself willingly part
@@1dfr33 I would say it kinda is in line. She is likened to Z Broly many, many times and willingly giving into her evil urges multiple times has to have a conclusion.
@@godzillakingofthemonsters5812 I agree as I said in my comment. I think the sleep thing would just be a cop out because like you said she's likened to z broly and would just take that power and indulge in it. I haven't seen that version so I can't say much
I get what they tried to do with him and don't mind it much, but side lining him so early into the story was such a low blow, not to mention that of the mods act like it's not valid critism
@Mugen2024 THANK YOU. To most people, Vegito is more of a temporary persona. However if ur gonna enact this character for the rest of ur life, ofc ur the mystique of that character ur trying to potray isn't going to be up all the time. Course who says we can't get the negative sides of Vegito either
Dbza fundamentally misunderstands the source material and people thinking they did it better are saying it for the memes. Dbza is cancer and defending a work that has Piccolo replace Goku for the father son Kamehameha is ridiculous.
Bra also can't just hide behind the excuse of the Majin Seal made me do it since it's not Mind Control but Malice Control. So an example would be that she already had a desire to kill Gohan that the seal simply dug out rather than implanted. One of the U19 troopers was also a target simply for having unspoken feelings for another so even a positive thing like that can be a vulnerability if any desire is distorted enough. Another major problem in the aftermath about this whole thing is that it has now rendered the character redundant as of now. From what I hear, Salagir needs to always make sure the Tournament proceeds but this particular event I think would have caused it's cancellation if we are being realistic. On a rewrite if I had to have the Majin Riot be a thing, I would have finished the actual event and then do this while it no longer restrains the plot itself. I've also found another fan comic of this where Gohan, Videl and Piccolo were not revived leading to U16 being disqualified and Vegito ended up disowning Bra as a result of her carnage. Might be more interesting since it's first whole chapter is done.
Yeah you're right Babidi's magic technically isn't a mind control thing. It just digs up any existing malice in one's heart and brings it to the forefront and amplifies it. In other words she only fell to it because she had those desires to begin with.
So Dabura had a submission kink? He left his position as Lord of the demon realm because deep down he had the sick dark fantasy to be the tool of a potato wizard?
Salagir completely fumbled with justifying Bra’s fall, and tried to make it seem like it was all Vegito’s fault, their backstory proves it’s not the case. It’s like Salagir forgot that Vegito actually did preach control, and even took Bra on his space copping duties to learn about protecting the universe. The fact that she allowed herself to fall to majinization, when the likes of Vegeta and Cell can break it just shows how weak minded of a character she is. “You thought I did it willingly? How low is your opinion of me..” Uh, actually, Vegito assumed you were perfectly fine and would’ve handled Babidi only to discover the slaughter you did, including to your own brother (Vegito’s son) She only breaks out after being called “passive” which I still don’t know wtf that means Then every character except for Pan turns on Vegito for being rightly furious with Bra, and Gotenks starts spouting nonsense drivel. Horrible horrible writing bro
Not to mention, you can blame Vegito all you want for being a bad father (don’t really think he was) But at the end of the day, Bra’s actions are HER OWN. SHE killed her own brother in cold blood with a smile on her face. SHE is responsible for HERSELF.
I agree with you for the most part. Bra should be held accountable for her actions. She really needed more time to develop and the weak-minded critique is something I'm divided on. On the one hand, that's her character flaw which is supposed to be fueled by her inferiority complex that she's had since childhood. On the other, this weak-mindedness and inferiority complex is so poorly handled. The whole Vegito judgment party nearly made me drop the story in its entirety, it's that bad to me. I'm not gonna say Vegito is the best father because I really don't think he's the best, I understand the point of making Vegito his own character, however, I believe both characters were handled poorly. I can't see Vegito dismissing his child until he's helped her control her explosive power. I also do not see Bra's character and years of emotional issues being resolved after one big, albeit traumatic, event and a conversation that doesn't address her issues but just acts like they are resolved.
The whole "you're passive" thing most likely comes from a mistranslation since the authors are French and don't speak English as their first language. What was most likely meant to be said instead was something like "you're submissive" as in despite being one of the strongest characters in that all of the universes alone, she's still a slave to her Saiyan nature and only physically strong, not mentally.
I’ve always been under the impression that Bra has split personality disorder. Her personality literally does a full 180 when she’s in SS2, and it would explain why she didn’t break Babidi’s control. It would also make sparing her a lot more reasonable because you can’t hold the good personality responsible for the actions of the bad personality.
@@maliksyv6056 isn’t it a superiority complex and not inferiority? What does she have to feel inferior about? She’s already surpassed everyone in her universe except for her father, a literal fusion
The whole thing is a hot mess. Bra being strong make sense to some degree because of her being a offspring of a fusion(not really) but everything else is a giant no. Her getting off with what is essentially a slap to the hand for digging in a cookie jar is completely unacceptable. She WILLING allowed herself to be controlled for power. She murk multiple people and was willing to even kill off her own family so she is 100% the definition of an evil character. And the whole thing with Vegito is a giant awful attempt at damage control due to the sheer backlash that manga had during that run( i was there with each page release and the comments were ruthless) Like come on Vegito would NOT be like that. Plus, his reaction to the situation is somewhat valid. She should be punished for her actions....then again the manga lost like 50% of their fans so i guess that's enough
@adreeeandanothere510 remember that the whole arc lasted for about a year, so imagine people getting increasingly angry over that period just to reach that awful end. It's no surprise that many just straight up left it alone. It is still relevant to some degree, of course, but nowhere near its prime.
@@lightingthief4482 I’m still racking my brain on why the writers wrote the end of the arc like that. Bra was essentially their own OC in terms of personality and Abilities. The focus they gave her implied they actually liked the character, and the work they put into her made it seem like she was to be ranked #1 as a fan favorite. So what happened? Were there new writers helping with the script. Did they take the DBZ abridged joke of dragon balls making death mean nothing too literal.
50%? It's honestly more like 90% according to most website analysis. It's just gotten worse and worse. Recently it had a chapter that was entirely the Old Kai's imagination where Kakarot and Mystic Raditz fused with the Potara earrings and somehow weren't strong enough to instantly kill Super Saiyan 3 Emperor Vegeta. Then they got defused and sent home and Vegeta won. Then it revealed nothing actually happened at all. That was the 100th Chapter of DBM. "Literally nothing and we return to Status Quo". Honestly couldn't be more fitting.
If i had a nickel for every time someone tried to forcefully make dragonball characters cool by overloading them with edginess i would probably have enough money to buy the original IP and make dragon ball GT remake
I love the concept of a spoiled brat becoming extremely powerful only to be defeated or humbled entirely. (Kinda like Hal/Titan from Megamind) because it briefly shows who they really are underneath. Vegito never taught Bra humility, and since she was born from the strongest mortal in her universe at the time she would of course be a cocky prideful asshole, my issues lie with how far they take her getting angry or her killing people than not getting a proper punishment or consciousness FOR LITERALLY KILLING MULTIPLE MEMBERS OF HER FAMILY. They could've done something like instead of having Bra just murder everyone she probably willingly lets Babidi control her the same way Vegeta did in the Buu Saga so that she can stand up to her dad. And they have a fight as they call eachother out for their flaws with Vegito becoming a better character and Bra becoming less of a prick
I get what they're trying to do, but canon completely kills any chance of redemption Bra could have. Vegeta, when he turned into a monster, was _so_ powerful Babidi's control, even at the start was tenuous at best, and then he just broke it completely by powering up to the very limit. Bra shouldn't have a problem with that, given her massive power is probably bigger than Vegeta's. Also, for Babidi to control someone's heart, that person has to be _vile._ I'm not talking just bitterness in general, I'm talking someone who has done heinous things in the past. Vegeta met the requirements because he was literally a space viking who wiped dozens of innocents with a callous grin. I honestly have no fucking clue what they were even doing with this arc, except just trying to make Bra cool and edgy.
Isn’t it HEAVILY implied that Bra has a split personality? She goes SS2 and suddenly is a totally different person with no empathy or attachment to her friends. I think Babidi gave her dark side the power to totally take her over rather than actually mind controlling Bra herself.
@@saucevc8353 Super Saiyan 2 doesn't create a split personality. Gohan was still Gohan after turning Super Saiyan 2. Sure, it heightens a Saiyan's desire for battle, mostly due to the anger similar to how it happened to Goku as he turned Super Saiyan, but it doesn't actually turn someone into a completely different person, otherwise he wouldn't have mourned Goku the way he did, and through the rest of the fight, was completely normal.
Like, you don't see Gohan suddenly going on a fucking killing spree that extends to his friends, and turns into complete evil like Vegeta. Hell, when one of the Cell Jr. threatened to kill Krillin, Gohan stopped, even while being callous. He only tried to kill both him and the Cell Jr. when Krillin himself told him to just do it.
I find it weird that the ppl from universe 19 didn’t get mad at Bra for killing their comrades. Goku also should’ve been mad at Bra because she literally killed his son. Pan is the only one that actually speaks which makes sense because Bra killed her father. Also universe 18 Bra seemed way too comfortable after the majin situation. She said that Bra can control herself now but she is not a fighter. Gotenks acts completely out of character because he never acted like that in the whole story. Gast Carcolh has no right to call the situation closed because he doesn’t know what happened in universe 16.
@@Naruku2121He got angry at Zamasu for killing an alternate timeline version of Chi Chi and Goten. Of course, he'd get mad at bra for killing an alternate universe version of gohan.
DBZ Multiverse has rly kept me onto their stories, specifically when it comes to Bojack and the galaxy soldiers.. It really seemed like Bojack, Zangya, Bido and his race were getting that attention that I never thought would ever surface. The whole reason as to why Bojack and Kogu can transform is actually cool, I always use to think those earrings on their ears helped to channel that metamorphosis, but being experimented on is even cooler. Next to cooler with SSJ’s, Bojack should’ve been SSJ2 tier, i honestly hyped him up the duration of Bojack Unbound!
It honestly wasn't really cringe (other than maybe the Gast vs Piccolo fight) until the story suddenly decided that Bra should take no responsibility for her actions because a wizard forced her to do it. The dialogue between Raichi and U13 Vegeta for example has some of the best writing in any fanwork I've seen for DB/DBZ.
I felt bad for Vegito. As his universe's protector, if Bra became evil it would be up to him to take her out. So, seeing her grow stronger each day without improving her control was grains in an hourglass. He would have to choose between his daughter and the universe.
Golly gee wilikers Batman, maybe if they didn't drag out the gosh darn arc for 4 rootin' tootin' years, maybe they could've given us a fleshed out ending instead of pulling an M8 and going "alright i'm bored now, throw a moral at it and wrap it up"
They turned my goat Vegito into something he isn't, there's barely any sign of Goku or Vegeta in him. When you see Gogeta and Vegito on screen, you can tell they're the fusion between Goku and Vegeta, their personalities are complimented by both fusions. And the fact that the writing is trying to make VEGITO SEEM LIKE THE ONE IN THE WRONG is SO messed up, I agree with the statement someone made about this being weak writing.
Not just that, but they made vegito extremely weak in this, for some reason. In the original anime (the version they focus on) vegito in base was stronger than super buu with gohan absorbed, and this vegito has yad 15 YEARS to train, yet he still struggles with SS3's energy waste. Plus a kid SS2 bra, who was less than 2 times stronger than ultimate gohan is now suddenly enough to force vegito into SS2. He should have knocked her out in one attack in base form
Was reading through this whole fan manga and really liking it and then when I got to the end of this whole mini-arc I could just feel my body cringing up like I ate a lemon. Bra literally let herself go under full control of Babidi (even more then Vegeta did previously) and then proceeded to kill her brother along with a ton of other innocent bystanders, and the blame is on Vegito? Always a reminder that despite some of the shaky writing in DB it can still get worse.
i think the alternate bra getting through makes sense, who else can judge you most but yourself, how often do you think of your life and other paths you could have taken, wondered what might have been if you did X instead of Y, and then one of those other paths actually comes forward to say you messed up. itd get through. i think the language of the speech itself was a bit clunky though
It's not that the concept doesn't work, it's that the writing team didn't follow the logic of the rules they set themselves. Despite the main series making it clear that Babidis magic can only take you over if you are truly evil, they decided to change it to "Oh you have a little evil? Complete mind control" Bra showed no signs of weakness, regret or compassion at any point. Then her alternate version who she could have easily murdered calls her weak, it breaks her entire mind control which according to their own rules, should not be possible. They specifically say Vegeta could break through because he wanted to be given power, but because Bra didn't she should not have been able to. So either she actually is evil and the entire scene defending her is pointless or the writers are so focused on making Vegito the bad guy and Bra the victim that they don't even realize how many writing mistakes and illogical statements they are making just to get to the payoff.
That's why it wouldn't make sense. GT takes place is the second timeline after future Gohan died. The main timeline, this takes place in an like alternate timeline like Super but without all the arcs.
Apparently it’s because of the creators of Multiverse don’t like GT. I still remember the little spot where the Golden Ape appeared in the tournament with a background character saying that’s from GT and the author’s avatar smacking them and saying it’s their own thing adding them in. Didn’t sit well with me.
@@viruschris3160 Can't get much more of a bratty, entitled response to 'why not GT?' Than directly saying 'NO, NO. THAT'S NOT GT, THAT'S ORIGINAL FOR US. US ONLY.' Glad I never kept up with this trashfire or its moronic creators. I get not liking GT, but that'd just childish.
Disregarding the very poor conclusion to the Majin Bra arc entirely the main thing that made me drop Multiverse was Vegito’s character. Like honestly I don’t get it, they turned him into a platinum rank, tier-5 tweaker for no reason 😂 a whole entire spaz that crashes out when things don’t go his way, it’s just crazy. Threatening your clearly unstable and unhinged daughter with death? Neglecting her too? Just being a massive ass in general? Who is this guy?!?! This is Saiyan saga Vegeta level. Not my Vegito at ALL! I’ve heard that whole Vegeta not giving up his pride with the speech and it negatively impacting Vegito but I personally don’t see it because 1. Vegeta was most definitely already mulling on stuff like this in hell. 2. Vegito is a person and has both their memories so he should be able to work through that development himself, especially since half of him is one of the most humble and down to earth people around. It is an interesting path to take but I didn’t like how it was handled at all, half the time it just feels like they hate Vegito. Not to mention him just being irritating the majority of his screentime as well. Nice video too, some Bra slander is appreciated since the story seems dead set on absolving her when’s she’s done basically nothing to deserve it.
Another nonsense about multiverse vegito is his power. He is extremely weak, this is the same vegito that was beating super buu with gohan absorbed just in his base form, but now after 15 YEARS of training. Yet he is barely stronger than his buu arc self. They said "vegito didnt have a rival so he didnt train" but that is absolute nonsense. Both goku and vegeta, in the 7 years of peace before the buu arc, trained past their limits.
I had been reading DBM nonstop since probably before 2016. Read every chapter, followed every new page the day it released, etc. The outcome of Majin Bra made me completely drop the series and never look back. Ironically, if the writers never did a 180 and went, "She's the real victim here...", it could've been fine. Vegito was extremely hard on her, she had a history of outbursts, a heel-turn via Babidi made sense. But to say that the character who just SLAUGHTERED most of the cast INCLUDING her own family without a SHRED of remorse or pity was only stopped because she got TALK NO JUTSU'D BY HERSELF FROM ANOTHER UNIVERSE? AND THAT WE SHOULD FEEL BAD FOR HER??? Seriously, imagine that. Any efforts by her family and peers to snap her out of it fall on deaf ears and she kills them easily. But main universe Bra yells at her, and suddenly, she regrets everything and the Majin seal is gone. Gimme a break...
Love how there are essays on Multiverse now!!! Totally agree with everything you said. They’ve been cooking with her, however the biggest issue with her is the writing of her father, and especially that ending like you said. I’m hoping when they finally get to the “Evil Vegito” arc they’ll be able to wrap up their plot lines in an understandable way. Keep up the good work!
I could not agree with you more. When they handed Bra's actions a 'Get Out Of HFIL Free' card (except for Pan), I stopped reading and have never gone back. I mean, they had her brag on the pages themselves that she was not brainwashed - she was 'freed'. Even before this, they turned both sets of Gotenks into her doormats and turned a practical dislike of SSJ3 into a mantra - to the point anyone who uses SSJ3 auto-loses. Damn shame, because otherwise, I enjoyed this take immensely. All fanfic authors have opinions - in my ATLA, I redeemed Mai's parents but took Toph's to task - but for DBM, they chose the wrong hills to fall on. Pan-16: I'm glad you lived, Bra-San. Son-Bra: Hey! What happened to Onee-Chan? Pan-16: Yeah, that's what I was wondering.
Just wanted to add - looking back, I recall other flaws - the SSJ3 hate mantra was off-putting, but livable - it just made the stories predictable when SSJ3 was used. The 'villains win out' alt-scenarios weren't always the most creative - spam a technique and they win, exceptions being Frieza and Cell, which fit their arcs. I wonder if the super-supreme dark mysterious dude story ever panned out. But all those other flaws were the kinds of things you accept when reading a fanfic. But in the case of the Majin Rebellion's ending, the author twisted the story to make his original, if canon-possible character correct and blameless, and that is a major DUDE NO! I once thought enough of this series that I did a one-off short 'Elfen Lied Multiverse' (Yes, I'm an EL fan, I know many are not, so no comments needed). But now? I can't even bring myself to watch a You Tube synopsis of DBM.
Dragon Ball Multiverse has been around for way more than 7 years-it first came out in 2008! This thing is practically ancient. I still remember reading it as a kid
Personally I feel like even Goku would have a hard time forgiving what Bra did, she lost control of herself and transformed and in the process she ended up destroying an entire civilization that was under Vegeto's protection as well as killing her brother Goten and later when confronted she seemed like she didn't really care about any of that. Then later she gets mind controlled and goes off to kill even more people including Gohan who was one of the only people who was there for her and yet even he wasn't spared. If Goku apparently couldn't forgive Raditz for kidnapping his son then I don't see how Goku could forgive actual Genocide from within his own family. As for Vegeta I can see him wanting to prevent his own children from committing the same mistakes he did and would harshly come down on such behavior. Like imagine if Kid Trunks was to destroy a city or something during the Buu Arc, do you think Vegeta wouldn't come down hard on Trunks for that? So to me it makes sense that both Goku and Vegeta within Vegeto wouldn't exactly tolerate their precious daughter becoming a heartless monster who feels nothing as she ends the lives of entire civilizations or even her own family.
I think the only way they could have executed this properly would have been making Bra far more violent and sadistic or made Vegito more like Kakarot fused with Vegeta rather than Goku
Don't care what anybody says she had that coming, saying that she mind control is a terrible defense because it was already said she's capable of breaking out of it if she wanted too.
I don't really outright hate or like Bra, but I still think she got off too easy. Not saying she has to die, but she should of been disqualified from the tournament instead of conceding against Ghast. Her taking this timid selfless high ground approachJust feels jarring after her rampage and her general personality prior to that onslaught. I don't know just hearing her being disqualified showing her consequences of her actions, and her choice in choosing or having to accept that with the weight of what she done denying the main thing she wanted to do there; it would start her character growth more sincerely than the route she actually took.
Figured I should weigh in on this, I've been reading Multiverse for the past 5 - 6 years. A good amount of character perspectives are done better with the websites Novelization version and the U16 Special Novel detailing Vegito's life until the Multiversal Tournament. It gets you into Vegito and Bra's headspaces and makes all of their actions make far more sense. Sorry for the freaking essay dump but all of the details are needed to paint a full picture of both Vegito and Bra. To explain Vegito in Chapter 17 of the U16 novel was conflicted having his own fullyborn child. While he viewed Gohan, Goten, and Trunks as his sons he felt somewhat distant from them, closer to a step parent in a sense so when Bulma propositioned for another child to Vegito he was both eager but also anxious for what that meant as a he was fearful of how strong a hybrid of his blood would be and he was scared of the possibility of that child becoming evil if raised wrong. He consulted with Android 18 and Elder Moori about becoming a parent and determined that he wanted a 4th child. Despite those conversations he was a flawed father, in the Multiverse Novel on page 159, Vegito is also clueless on how to truly help his daughter with her self control, as Vegito is scared of his own psychopathic lapses of control in desiring a new challenge that he sort of leaves it up to Bra to figure it out and only steps in when she goes on tantrums. It's made even worse by Goku's nobility in him, he swore to the Kai's of Unvierse 16 that he would be the Universes greatest defender, preventing all potential dangers to the point where the common people view Vegito as a god. That said he also took Goku's bad traits, that being his desire for a challenge. Chapter 20 of the U16 novel he genuienly contemplates tearing apart earth, Videl, and a newborn Pan to get a real life or death fight from Gohan because he was so bored and at the time Gohan was 2nd only to Vegito. This is made worse by the Vegeta in him. In U16 Vegeta never threw away his pride, while he was willing to become permanetly fused with Goku he nev had the chance to acknowledge his own faults and mutual respect to Goku like with how his counterpart U18 Vegeta. Meaning he's insecure about his own power which is why he was jealous of U18 Goku and Vegeta unclocking Normal Super Saiyan or how in the Novel's he was wary of Buu potentially training and surpassing him. Bra like any child would of course pick up these nasty traits and habbits from her dad. She views herself as a goddess, the daughter of the greatest hero in the Universe and the younger sister of the 2nd strongest as she looks up to both Vegito and Gohan. This made her desire to grow strong but overtime she grew insecure about not reaching Vegito or Gohan's level, which is how she unlocked Super Saiyan. This is compunded by Vegito trying to help Bra in the Time Chamber, Chapter 161 of the Multiverse novel Vegito tries to coax Bra into going Super Saiyan again after she first transformed. Vegito take sthe same route Goku did against Uub to coax out his power, Vegito shamed her by calling her an embarassment and weak which while it did get her to become a Super Saiyan again but it only furthered her insecurities and unstable mindset that reached it's apex when she went SSJ2, killing Goten, destroying the planet, and making the star go supernova. The reason she's so apathetic to all those deaths is because she believes all Vegito wants is a strong daughter, the moment she proves that she is worthy of his care he tells her he's going to kill her if she gets that strong again with the Chapter 159 of the Multiverse Novel detailing that she was fobidden from going SSJ2, meaning no one helped her with her self control again and Vegito gave up on her. Now for Bra: Oncemore the Multiverse novel version helps Bra out far more. It explains that under normal circumstances she could've resisted Babadi's Majin Mark, but the trauma of switching bodies with Ginyu along with hatchiyack, the embodiment of evil mentally taxing her even further left her vulnerable both physically and mentally to where Babadi could take her over. Factor in the sheer drunk high she was in to finally controlling her SSJ2 state and her worstened Saiyan traits being passed down from Vegito. The reason the U18 Bra stuff works better in the Novel is that it isn't a talk no jutsu situation, the two argue and fight. In chapter 159 of the Novel U16 Bra yells about how her counterpart is weak and spoiled meanwhile U18 Bra tells her counterpart that she has Bulma, Gohan and the Son family that love her, that death isn't just some Dragon Ball day trip to fix, and even U18 Goten jumps in to sympathize and help her. The passive line works far better here as well, to take the exact words from the novels version: “Then that’s even worse, you didn’t even try to resist,” Bra spat, crossing her arms. “You didn’t bat an eyelid when you killed Gohan, who was ALWAYS considerate of you - and you’ll never convince me otherwise! You allowed your mind to be taken over, you conceded your heart to a darkness that, through you, committed absolute atrocities! So no, madam “I am the strongest”... You aren’t the best, you surrendered, you handed yourself over. For all your great strength, you just gave in. You’re completely passive.”
So this is the result of a massive missunderstanding, it sounds like Salagir read too much on the silmarilion lmao I still don't think that this is enough, it's like when death note fans tell you that the ending made sense in the manga. it doesn't, it just makes *more* sense which isn't quite the same.
The Vegeta that fused with Goku to become this version of Vegeto hadn't let go of his pride and acknowledged Goku as "Number 1" or redeemed himself that all happens in the Kid Buu fight after they de-fuse, which this Vegeto never does - and Goku's experience with training Gohan would have been virtually the opposite of what Bra needed, Goku was trying to get Gohan to release his anger in the first place so he could tap into his power - he actually didn't teach him to control it, something that really bites him in the ass during the Cell Games (Gohan tormenting Cell and drawing out the fight - leading to Goku's death) I think killing yourself isn't as easy as you might think - killing the others is pretty nuts (especially loved ones), but if you understand it in the context of growing up knowing you have the "status quo balls", it's like an internal excuse to "cut loose" - but I think a literal manifestation of trying to convince yourself that you are justified is really interesting But I can acknowledge that I have to do a bit of mental legwork to arrive at that conclusion - I think your point is a good one, there could very easily be a parallel universe where she just killed her counterpart instantly. I also don't love Vegeto's characterisation at times - I feel like he ought to be a little more carefree, sometimes it's like he's 85% Vegeta and 15% Goku - he's also recently becoming a bit of a "Worf" character, gets defeated or overcome by some means every few chapters to show how threatening other characters are to his detriment. Bra was controversial long before the whole Majin Revolt ark honestly, just by virtue of being an arrogant female character that was stronger than the main cast in a medium that is consumed by a good amount of maladjusted men - and to be fair some of the criticisms were legitimately compelling like your own, either way though the writers really gave themselves a tough job that I think would have had to be immaculately written to be satisfying to most. I love the comic and have been following it for almost it's entire run though - DBZ was hardly without flaws either - and I think Multiverse gets at least 2 things right for every 1 thing that might miss the mark, and that's pretty dang decent if you ask me.
I appreciate this comment. It’s not too often I get in depth ones like this and I love the breakdown you offer. I never thought to look at the controversy surrounding her character because of her strength/gender pairing because I didn’t think it was going to be a problem, some people are weird. I remember reading the Majin Revolt and people were fighting hard in the comments, and that’s what I remember most. Again thank you for the comment it’s a wonderful one.
I would say I liked Vegito’s characterization because of his constant protecting of the universe. As a result of being the strongest and having that responsibility that would bring out the more impatient and stubborn side of him that just wants Bra to cut it out. Essentially in the very classic saiyan way, he wants to control her anger by getting over it and focus on the task, effectively trying to ignore the problem and solve it at the same time, not affording her the time to learn and grow or even reflect.
There's a theory that Vegito will be the final villain or antagonist, BUT I'd love it if Goku and Vegeta from Uni 18 heat Vegito and weakened him to a point where someone could use the Dragon Balls to unfused him or destory the potara, and the punishment was that he was no longer the stronger warrior in his universe, and both the Goku and Vegeta post Buu have to go through some redemption and fix how they treated their daughter and try and fix what occurred with their families too.
Also people lashing out, going for bystanders until they get to the loved ones they have grievances with, then immediately having a "oh... fuck" moment is pretty realistic. Haven't seen it with downright murder yet, but the pattern is there. Bra not going for her alternative version's throat while having her "oh fuck" moment is pretty realistic, and honestly... Any other character who's just a stranger to her could survive that encounter too. At least until Babidi reasserted his control. I guess the average person not having experience with outburst of anger is a good thing, tho.
the authors kinda shot themselves in the foot by introducing a gag character literally called "Mary Su" tbh and ppl could easily draw parallels between the joke character and say Son Bra is that character but unironically, even if its not entirely true its the first impression a reader might have
People should remember that DBM was the only thing Dragonball fans could look forward to since Super wasn't even a thing back then, infact the DB franchise was pretty much dead and only relying on videogames and merchandise sales. The fact that it managed to keep going after all this time while keeping up with updates has solifidied its status as one of the most iconic DB fanmangas out there. Also yes, Bra is fucking horrible as a character.
Think this is bad for a single character? Wait until you see the colossal mess that is Ultra Vegito. Cause hold shit that series went overboard on every level
It's crazy Multiverse even predates Evolution by a year. It might be the oldest DB fan fiction still running, as Toyotaro left AF behind to go join Shueisha
That endings really ruin the loved that Bra originally had because really she should have gotten some kind of punishment as babidi magic isn't 100% mind control, and it really doesn’t help that Cell who should be more evil than Bra was able to comtrol himself and help out the good guys. Vegito getting talk down is fine IF it was just about him trying to kill her and the fact that he didn’t even try to raise her correctly which by the way that weaken the hype that the evil vegito arc because now people are concern with the reason why he become evil, heck it might get people to side with Vegito or showcase a complete 180 of the character.
The over fixation on Bra, odd writing choices and out of place swearing, is what got me. Note that I have zero issue with swearing in and of itself, as the original series had plenty of instances of it, just nowhere near the extremes of Multiverse's.
So ever since I've kept up with the multiverse story, i was curious on how vegito interacted with his universe. Seeing a version of Bra that is Vegito's child would've been to me an interesting dynamic, but once I've seen the backstory of how the two interact, it feels like his Vegeta side shows a lot more from how inpatient he is. I agree that bra needs to be held accountable for her actions during the babidi revolt arc, but she also needs help as well that vegito will never do
Dragon Ball multiverse has such good concept if they just rewrote some stuff and added dbs and dbgt characters imagine a dbz vs dbs broly son bra vs caulifla and kale Or stuff from the videogames like the time patrol since all of these different timelines exist The gods of destruction as well The refusal to try implement the newer dragon ball content as well the writing itself is holding this fan Manga back
If only we as DB fans could make this happen in Sparking zero. I would make piccolo fuse with guru before he dies, put buu in the dragon ball super era, make trunks ssj god and so much more.
Like if this vegito fused before vegeta's final resolve you know the moment he decides he wont be the same way he once was and fused to fight buu when he awakened then I would see why vegito is so pressed about pride and bieng the strongest but at the time goku and vegeta fuse vegeta is a guy with a pure heart so vegito's character doesnt make sense vegito is only like that so she can a tragic backstory
@@sridrawings4510 the backstories for the comic and the comic itself were bieng written before super and i have not read much of super past top but from what I can guess its just a rivalry they always had like in the buu saga but this time vegeta wont allie himself with the villan just for a chance to defeat goku
In a mid-2021 Twitch live, Salagir, DBM's author was asked: "Is Bra depicted the way she is because you are feminist" His answer was: "If you are not feminist, you are an as*hole" All of a sudden, Bra's characterization throughout the story makes sense.
I personally think that they should have made babadi mind control more powerful and different from the original. Instead of the person evil in there heart is intensified, it should have been changed to something like the higher the emotions or stress the faster you become either a mindless solider or slowly lose your mind and become crazy. I think something like this would make the character killing family members make a bit more sense without all of the controversy. I also think if they added a scene were vegito is about to kill her but hesitant which would flash back to vegito telling her he would kill her was more a tactic to scare her from doing anything evil or reckless. Haven’t really thought super in detail about everything, just throwing my thoughts out there.
this is the most thoughtful analysis of bra I've seen. The comment section page to page just ranted about her being too strong or bratty. Like yeah man she's the combined child of the two strongest figters in the known universe raised by the ritchest smartest woman alive. She is literally the kid of the two most important people in the world of course that would lead to some behavioral issues especially if vegito as portrayed here is as short tempered as he is.
Multiverse has made many inconsistencies leading up to this arc and before. This really doesnt come as shock on how they handle this. Hopefully we get a DB fan made project that is above mediocrity
Isn't there a chapter in this series where someone has a future vision of Vegito destroying the multiverse because he's salty for losing a fight? And he's the one preaching bra about controlling anger
Vegito ten years down the line being bad does make sense in concept. just based on how miserable his existence is. Universe 16 is another universe where things went wrong? Vegito is a horrible ending for Goku and Vegeta. As Vegito Goku has no purpose. He's the strongest in the universe. The biggest fish in the sea. He can't test or improve his abilities. He's too strong. In 10 years he wasn't injured once. Goku lives to challenge himself and improve and now there's no challenge. There's nothing for him. And as Vegito, Vegeta he wanted to prove he was the strongest for his pride and he became the strongest But it's like a monkey's paw wish. He can never prove himself because he didn't surpass his rival he became one with his rival. He's the strongest in the universe, but didnt earn it. There's no one strong enough to be a challenge for him to defeat which would reinforce his pride. So he'll never feel accomplished. He'll never feel satisfied. Being Vegito is both of their worst nightmares. No wonder they both would rather risk the universe, risk their own existences, fighting kid Buu over fusing into that thing again. Being an aimless and insecure God for 10 years is enough to make me believe that Vegito would go bad.
I think the issue here where I have to disagree harshly is in regards to her not killing the alternate reality version of herself. The reason she broke free from Babidi's control is because that version of Bra was basically saying everything her surpressed negative thoughts were, a little voice the back of your head acknowledging your flaws and your problems that Babidi managed to surpress with his mind control and bring all of Son Bra's issues to the forefront in full force. For all intents and purposes, and all their different personality traits, Son Bra is still Bra. They are still likely similar in thought processes at least and even Majin Vegeta was able to resist Babidi's control. It's not about consistency when it comes to Babidi's mind control, it's about circumstances. Vegeta was able to resist his urge to kill Goku to take out Majin Buu. Bra was able to resist the urge to kill Bra because Bra is her. Vegito also isn't the one we see in Super. He's fresh off the Majin mind control and is before he gets rid of his inferiority complex. This will carry over the fusion and frankly we don't actually know what Vegito's personality is like outside of battle. Do I think Vegito should have went for the kill? No. Do I understand why he did? Yes. Power on the scale of Dragon Ball is incredibly destructive, you simply cannot lead to the destruction of a solar system to unlock a new form. Son Bra is a lot more Saiyan then any of the other Half-Saiyans and seems to have taken on their worst traits. The comparison to Broly is accurate.
When thinking of this story, I thought about Majin Vegeta's decisions, and I was divided on what my take would be for this character. Rereading the battle royale and looking at how she took down her older brother I just couldn't see her alternate version being the reason she breaks after everything. I still think it was a good decision to have her break the trance of her other self, and the explanation you provide is good too. Hearing about killing yourself from an alternate universe is hard, yes but I would argue killing your blood brother who's watched you grow up and spent probably a lot of time with you that, possibly more than your own father would, has to be way tougher in my eyes. Yet, she does it without flinching.
@@maliksyv6056 This is exactly why I think she does it without flinching is that she KNOWS him well. That can have a lot of complicated feelings that can surface in violence imo. She knows exactly what he would say and is prepared to hear it. What does she expect to hear from Bra, though? Pleas for her life because she's so weak. Fear. A weakling with no power. She failed to remember that just like her, she had Bulma's fierceness. She may not have the power to back it up, but she has the nerve of a woman who slapped a God of Destruction without hesitation. She didn't think Bra was like her in any respect outside of appearance.
I remember reading multiverse years ago. Im not quite sure what arc it was up to at the time but I remember a consensus that a good number of people didn’t like Bra because she was basically a Mary Sue, being presented as The Strongest and outclassing many other characters who fans were more interested in seeing, it was very clear that she was an Author’s pet. Can’t comment on later chapters because I stopped reading it when I caught up years ago though.
I genuinely loved the character, probably my favorite out of the multiverse. True there was some parts here and there but considering this was fan made, I didn’t mind🤷♂️ can’t wait to see if they top goku vs vegeta tho🙏
Man, I remember reading DBM way back when, but sort of stopped (I think it was due to distraction and just losing interest as a result from not reading after so long), so this is surprising. I think I stopped reading somewhere between Chapter 38 and 46. Honestly, I'm surprised it's still going.
I feel like being faced with an alternate version of yourself would give anyone pause. I know that they've lived significantly different lives but I'm 100% sure weak bra would have incites that no one else would. There is a deeper Inherent connection that these two characters share. Also I actually do like how vegito is depicted. He isn't just a combination of goku and vegeta he is his own character. And his life choices have put him on a different path than the sum of his parts. That's good character writing. Also think of why vegito was created. He was made to kill an incredibly strong threat to the universe, buu. He doesn't have a childhood arc or purpose beyond defending the universe. That's gonna give a guy a complex. Ultimate power corrupts.
glad to see someone take an objective view on son bra. most people i've seen just write her off as a mary sue and are done with it. I often wondered if the issue with her mental state might be due impart to being the daughter of a fusion. Z vegito always felt like the worst parts of goku and vegeta mashed together (vegeta's arrogance and goku's inability to take fights seriously from the start) I figured something like that was going on with Bra, but nothing has been shown regarding that. Just Too much power + reckless behavior.
This chapter was so bad two moderators of the website, Ashanark and Stouty_22, left because of it. Ashanark's perspective of how he felt the story at this point was doing a disservice to it's characters, especially Bra's characterization and Vegito's "intervention", is actually very interesting to read.
What sucks about that especially is Ashanark, from what I recall from my memory alone, typically had a positive mindset on where the story was headed and seemed genuinely excited when Majin Bra was revealed since, again, if I'm remembering this right, had been predicting this for a while and arguing as to why it'd be a good narrative decision. It's so shitty that they took that good decision, only to then butcher it right after lmao.
As before, this comment section demonstrates, once characters get a little bit of complexity, people lose their mind and spew nonsense after nonsense. So as a reminder : -Bra didn't get willingly under Babidi's control, it happened during Hatchiyak onslaught wich weakened her mind and made the mind control possible. If she had done so willingly, she would have no reason to break it later. As of Majin Vegeta, he let Babidi give hium the power up, but he is so strong-minded (not a question of ki) that he resisted the orders of the sorcerer. His mind was more powerful than Bra. The daughter of Vegetto isn't perfect, but she isn't a monster either. -Vegetto is the definition of frustration. Nobody to fight for years, no rival, just a life of boredom. In the fiction part of the story, he even feels frustration when Gohan show his full power during the fight, a full power that would get him a bit of a fight. It's like an itch that grow stronger with time, becoming unbearable. Yet, he shows no patience toward the training of Bra in her younger years, so much that Gohan take his place and even with that he tries to stay joyful toward her and be a father figure for her, especially before fighting Zangya. Vegetto didn't become a monster, but he still is instable, wich may be because of the potara, after all, almost two opposite personality were fused in one for years. The worst part is that he jumped to conclusion and tried to kill his own daughter for actions that you could easily blame Babidi for. So all in all, DBM isn't a perfect fanmanga. There is flaw, some ideas were scraped after years of writing, some personnality change, but it's far from being a shitshow or just "vEGeTtO bAshIng" like some likes to subject. Bra isn't a Mary Sue, either. She made a lot of mistakes and can show instability. Instability that Vegetto has too, for different reasons. But as it stand, Bra and Vegetto are very good characters, ways more nuanced that it seems.
Good vid, I like DBM, but Bra and Vegito just get under my skin a bit with how they're characterized, and I've skimmed the comments around and I do I agree with what I've read. I said something with how I felt about these two in a comment on Fandom, that I'm gonna share here Warning it's hella long, I went off on these two: Vegito is a terrible parent, dude threatened his daughter on multiple occasions and even tried to kill her(even though at that point she kinda deserved it). His most petty reason for trying to kill Bra was because she'll end up stronger than he will be, even stated that he'll kill her before that happens. Plus dude, was complete man-child, when he lost his round and got back all I heard was complaining from this guy, and when Gohan told him to leave, he left, but in private he said I quote "I wanted to punch Gohan so bad!! Even though he was right, I wanted to break his skull". AGAIN, Vegito is HALF OF GOKU! Yet he acts like he doesn't care about breaking his half-son's face(keep in mind Pan was still dead after Bojack killed her they needed to wait for the officials to use the Dragon Balls to bring her back), he's selfish only thinks about himself and his fights for as long as he enjoys it, worse yet he thinks he's the leader of everything, when he and a few others were trapped in another realm, he started complaining that no one was listening to him. And got pissed off when Goku and Vegeta were getting stronger, not as strong as him, but he was practically mad about nothing. I won't lie the moment he got his body broken, I was glad cause someone finally shut him up. All because he's "Cursed to be the strongest" DUDE YOU HAVE A DAUGHTER YOU CAN PROPERLY FATHER AND TRAIN! Bra isn't out of the woods either, wanting to act all cocky and arrogant cause she has all that power and is jealous and peeved at her father for being stronger than she is, like girl he's a fusion of two of the most powerful warriors of your time, of course he's gonna be stronger! Worse yet, when she got controlled by Badidi, she didn't even try to struggle or break free, she just let's herself be consumed, she even protects Badidi just so she can keep her powers. She kills piccolo, kills Gohan, like her actual half-brother Gohan, so that's twice she's killed her siblings(on Goku's side too), and kills a person who she promised to save her planet. All this cause she felt weak and insignificant, when it was literally opposite, she's praised by her friends and family for being powerful, she's literally the daughter of the richest women on earth and the strongest being the universe, so you know for a fact she was a bit spoiled, but still didn't want to learn her lesson, it's only when Bra(vegeta's daughter) finally spoke to her she got it in her thick skull(which she got from Vegito) Again I like DBM, it's just some of the characters really could've been better(mainly Bra and Vegito), I know Vegito is suppose to be his own guy with his own mindset and stuff, but come on he's Goku and Vegeta at his very core. And Bra's personality is a craft from all the things she's done, but you'd think she'd be at least more humble or something. Have her be cocky to her opponents and get an attitude when she fights, or be angry when the moment it right(like with Pan's death) but let her also be humble, accepting with her dad being the strongest, but also still respectful in wanting to surpass him, but not in a "Boohoo my dad is stronger than me wah" kind of way. Dragon Ball Multiverse Vegito, is just some guy mad that things don't revolve around him. DBM Bra is just a brat who's mad thing's didn't go her way. In all honesty, the only good character there in my opinion, was Zen Buu, he was zany, but funny, I enjoyed his antics, and the voice Mondo Cool gave him.
a bit unrelated but i would really like to see a crossover with the dbs characters, i don't know like a surpise guests kind of deal, or maybe beerus wanting to show off how powerful their universe is, and the team i would like to see would be: goku, vegeta, gohan, piccolo, broly, 17, 18 and frieza, imagine the interaction: goku and vegeta showing off the god forms, piccolo with orange, gohan with beast, golden/black frieza and dbs broly getting weird looks because of what happend with Z broly also vegito shitting himself realizing all of them are far stronger than him
The problem is tho, Bra is MOSTLY to blame. Its not like Babidi slid into her dreams and mind controlled her, she WILLINGLY allowed herself to be controlled after being promised more power. Even after everything that's happened she still ONLY cares about being stronger.
Vegetto's characterization is all over the place. We're talking about a fusion of Goku and a Vegeta that at point had sacrificed himself, and accepted to fuse because of what happened to his family. A guy that was literally chapters away from getting a redemption by getting revived. I do not buy for a second that a fusion between those two at that point in time would be such a dick. It feels like the writer just wanted him to be that way just so it could fit the story he wanted to tell.
[Long comment incoming lmao] It sucks that the discourse on the character hasn't improved at all or become even slightly more interesting after all these years. First of all, I don't get this "Vegito was disrespected" angle. Vegito was *hardly* a character in DBZ, and the little we saw of him, he was immensely arrogant. It almost seemed like a fusion of Goku and Vegeta's worst traits. His portrayal takes some liberties, sure, but I don't see how that's a bad thing. Moving on to Bra herself, she's a byproduct of her environment and conditions of her very existence. She was born into ridiculous amounts of power which put her as superior immediately, was deliberately *taught* she was superior from the get-go, seemingly neglected by her father for some time and on top of it had this damn near sociopathic perspective on life due to the Dragon Balls restoring any lives that were taken at any given moment. No, she's not the result of *trauma*, but the result of the conditions of her environment and her dad's genes. Yes, bra sucks. That's the whole point. And it's been stated to oblivion by the writer himself. Now, is she handled correctly? No. Not at all. A lot of the writing regarding her *does* in fact seem to either justify her actions or downplay them by characters who, by all accounts, should have all the reason to hate her or at least be weary of her. Passively writing her out the story after the Majin arc was so cowardly in my opinion where the Majin arc itself could've been a chance to redeem her character. All in all, the concept of Bra as a character is dope as hell and really interesting. Her character is more nuanced than most people give it credit for. Is she a *very well-written character?* In my opinion, not really. But a lot of the discourse centers around the wrong things entirely.
If you have a kid with the DNA of two universe-level Saiyan warriors, one of which is a prideful Saiyan elite, have her be raised by a god and spend her whole childhood among other ultra-powerful warriors, of course she's gonna turn out the way she did. Fighting is what matters the most to Saiyans, especially Goku and Vegeta. Coupled with the aforementioned god fusion potentially killing her if she ends up doing something wrong, of course she's gonna want to become as strong as possible. If you put all these expectations on your 16 year old daughter, It doesn't excuse everything she did, but that's just how she was brought up. It also helps that the author intentionally wrote Son Bra to be an asshole, which I like. I love villain protagonists.
It’s a bit interesting how Vegito was characterized in Multiverse. The only justification I can see for his actions and attitude are the fact that once he defeats, Buu, he’s yearning for another opponent to tango with his power, and having to train becomes a bore since he’s still looking for someone to push him to his limits in the ultimate fight. This still is a stretch to say the least
On the one hand, I didn't mind Son Bra all that much as a character, and felt that she was decently written. On the other, I stopped reading *long* before the Majin arc came to a close and the coming "Vegito is actually evil" twist turned out to just be him *justifiably* afraid of the damage his absurdly powerful and almost certainly psychotic daughter could cause.
Mind you she did all of this with some sense of awareness so she was fully conscious when she killed gohan and the others if a buu saga vegeta can overcome babidi's control than bra who is like many times stronger than him should do the same but obviously didn't. I mean bra was so cold and evil that she made vegito wanna kill her fuckin vegito who has literally the mind and body of goku the most nicest and merciful person you can ever meet. If make vegito wanna kill u that means you must have done something seriously fucked up to make him wanna rage out like killing his son gohan, threaten pan, murder piccolo or destroy a planet full of innocent lives and guess who did ALLL of that lol
I can at keast see Bra being so self-important that literally the only person she'd listen to in her state was another version of herself. It's obviously far from a perfect solution, I can see some logic to it. But yeah, Vegito got done dirty.
I Agree her ending iS LIKE OH MY GOSH DUDE i complained about this when it first came out She murdered an entire solar system earlier already and then Vegito already made it his duty to to protect the universe. He's bra murder so many of the multiverses contestants and somehow he is the bad guy? I Agree that they should of stopped him from killing her because wether its goku or vegeta i dont care a father killing their own child will fuck them up for life. They could of had the kai's say they have seen enough of creation to know that his heart means well but it would be the wrong thing for him to do given his state of mind . But her being "understood" is like waaaaaaaaay outta pocket. I Think they should of had her either die and then come back and go to some weird version of limbo/hell Or the reason behind her madness actually explored. I always felt it was a broly like situation where there is a natural madness coupled with something that keeps them going into the deep end..Wether its Z broly (Which was poorly done) or Super broly (Which is must better done)... But she is a genocidal mass murderer and all she got was a pat on the back for her actions and a "she understands" her ways now like no she don't I Think vegito not being the best father is somewhat ok due to the fact that goku despite understanding gohan when he was teen didnt really fully understand his needs until the cell games...and Vegeta despite being better can still be stubborn. I think the overconfidence of vegito and currate that scenario but its not really ever shown other than the one line of "You dont get that power and not lose some compassion" which seems more like a remark to be broken and deconstructed than to be adhered to When goku and vegeta fight in ultimate potential unleashed forms. Vegito is pissed rather than elated to see that his individual parts reached a power that could match him on some level without needing fusion. it would be a good place for him to realise his complacency and how he could of messed up with bra but instead he just hides into himself Reminds me of that one fan manga where beerus revives cell to push gohan and cell kills pan and shit before gohan crashes out and kills him and somehow Goku is ok....Vegeta justifies it as gohan needing to be better EVEN THOUGH HE DOES NOT LIKE FIGHTING and Beerus telling him to suck it up and Gohan (Despite getting stronger) just takes it like i hate that shit so much its just injustice to the highest degree and removes value from the motive of the story
Super broly is the worse version. He literally just mad to be mad. His entire backstory is he got sent off as a kid then Frieza finds him and that's his whole life. Dbz broly was tortured as a newborn being stabbed and thrown in the garbage and spent years conquering and destroying the southern galaxy where pikkon stayed. He then gets taken over by his dad and when he's finally free he becomes his true self again. Dbs broly is nothing but grunts and yelling meanwhile dbz broly was smart, cocky and tactical. Idk how anyone could ever say dbs broly was better written when he wasn't written at all
@@sky-oq5mr Thing is, Z Broly doesn't have ANY type of character development, which Super Broly does. Besides, Super Broly is all grunting and yelling because, guess what? He's in a totally uncontrollable psychotic state where even he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing. (you're right on dbs broly's backstory though, should've been more interesting than staying on a random planet untill frieza recruits him again) Edit: Let me name examples because I see the complain coming. Super Broly actually had some moments to develop his character with Lemo and Cheelai. Sure, those talks might seem to be filler, but those talks are important to the progression of his character and make some desicions actually makes sense. It also shows us how Broly sees the world and how he interacts with it. The problem with Z Broly not having any character development comes from the fact that he's always in one-dimensional thinking. Sure, his Legendary Super Saiyan lines are memorable, but what is his logical thinking besides of "I want to destroy because that shit rocks"? That's just Kid Buu or Janemba level of motivation, but at least they have the argument of being monsters of pure evil. Or what, are they bad because they're always grunting and yelling too?
@@TruxySSJ Z broly had character development. He went from a sad depressed voiceless wuss into a psycho maniac monster like the legends said the legendary super Saiyan would be. He had way more character development than dbs broly. What I see from what you're saying is, since he didn't end up trying to be a good guy that's the problem when it's not. He's evil, pure evil like Vegeta described the legendary super Saiyan to be. He couldn't even form proper sentences until he finally broke his chance, killed the main that put him in those chains aka his father. It's a deep story for dbz broly. He saves his father from king vegeta and Frieza but losses control when he unlocks ssj as a child and clobbered his dad. His dad thinking this mf is going to destroy everything like the legends states, so he puts some restraint on him. This causes even the dad to be corrupt because he can have his son do whatever he wants now so he gets drunk off power while his son is miserable. Dbs broly got all his forms randomly one after another which is another corny trope that ruins these characters in dbs. Z broly already had ssj but was restrained to use it's full power which was why it was blue when he had the head piece on. Dude erased the southern galaxy and adds to a possibly on who killed pikkon when he was strong enough to one tap perfect cell. I'm not gonna say super perfect because I'm unsure about that.
I have to disagree in bra not killing the other bra, because she personally think of herself better than the other one due to her ego she wanted to show the other bra how she was inferior
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Edit: I love y’all discourse those that agree and disagree with my takes. I’m not gonna sit down to read every single one but I respect y’all opinions and I’m glad I could start a discourse with some of y’all.
I gotta agree with you, I feel like vegito characterized in multiverse could've been better, much more arrogant n more then vegeta haha.
I don't like how vegito is characterized at all in multiverse.
I feel like he is disrespected and him being genuinely angry at bra during her rampage makes sense. However the writers turned around the tides and make him somehow seen as the bad guy.
Really really weak writing
He raised her.
Imagine people getting mad at you for trying to raise a monster into a good person
@@TahjPollockits fr so weird that Bra did a Majin Vegeta and Vegito, who is literally 50% composed of someone who literally went through the exact same thing, decided that to stop her he needed to knock some sense into her, only for everyone else to go "hey dude don't hit your daughter you're kind of a dick" is odd. Like Vegito would remember giving into malice like that right? He more than anyone would understand why her giving into her malice for power is one of the worst things you can do
@@Subpar1O1 Worst part of it all is that We're SHOWN Vegito practically tried his best with her and ONLY threatened her after she blew up a planet and HER BROTHER and basically laughed it off, and people try to play it off as Vegito being a bad father
@@TahjPollockyea cause shes a little kid with insane power that clouds her mind. I understand vegito is in the right about feeling that bra is a monster but we can't place all the blame on bra. vegito being snarky and cocky and having that underlying fear of eventually getting surpassed is the reason she turns out this way. Instead of having patience and nurturing his daughter he chooses to push her away and tells her constantly that she's only alive cause he lets her be and that one day he'll kill her. It's actually really good writing if you look deeper into it. It's masked behind the fact that bra is too strong for her own good but if you read between the lines you see just how insecure vegito is about being the strongest cause even when it isn't about bra, you see it in other scene where vegito feels like he has to be the center of attention or strongest in the room to feel validated,bra learns that way of thinking from him.
Also there is the fact they retconned what actually happened in order to give Bra more sympathy. Babidi didn't snatch her up in her sleep, the original story the comic is drawn too has him promise her power and she willingly agrees, but unlike Vegeta she completely surrendered to his control. Vegito's reaction is also pretty justified, you gut your own family members just to prove a point after years of her being just as volatile a monster as any of their enemies. By all accounts she should be put down. Multiverse making Vegito a massive asshole is the overall weirder thing since they're not consistent with it at all.
wouldn't be surprised if ssj4 goku somehow came out from another universe and just chops her in two
@@EnderGoku9001 I doubt he would just "do that"
@@godzillakingofthemonsters5812 I didn't realize they changed it. I only knew of her doing it willingly. I always figured her and vegito were never meant to be in line with how they would act in our canon (bra being non-existent). As for how vegito acts it is very strange but I figure we just haven't gotten to see exactly is what's making him tick. I agree that she should be put down but that's not the DB way. She's a child of the heroes she's going to be given more leeway than someone like Vegeta or piccolo who murdered countless and started off as villains.
Her actions aren't justifiable but don't seem to deviate from what she was consistently shown as, power hungry and ignorant. As long as you keep the giving herself willingly part
@@1dfr33 I would say it kinda is in line. She is likened to Z Broly many, many times and willingly giving into her evil urges multiple times has to have a conclusion.
@@godzillakingofthemonsters5812 I agree as I said in my comment. I think the sleep thing would just be a cop out because like you said she's likened to z broly and would just take that power and indulge in it. I haven't seen that version so I can't say much
I felt the peak fiction in my veins when a fusion of Goku brutally kicks his crying daughter🤧
Fr
Vegetto was done dirty.
Bra child design looks STRAIGHT FIRE.
I heard you a
JOKES IM /J
@@TheLocalAngryKid 😭 i am not a " "
@@TheLocalAngryKid nono too late bro 😡 i'm summoning my inner demons 😈😈😈
@@TheLocalAngryKid I heard you like
They Character Assassinated Vegito💀
I get what they tried to do with him and don't mind it much, but side lining him so early into the story was such a low blow, not to mention that of the mods act like it's not valid critism
For me it is interesting, it is the consequence of a lasting and powerful fusion
@Mugen2024 yeah I was going to say the same thing
@Mugen2024 THANK YOU. To most people, Vegito is more of a temporary persona. However if ur gonna enact this character for the rest of ur life, ofc ur the mystique of that character ur trying to potray isn't going to be up all the time.
Course who says we can't get the negative sides of Vegito either
It was pretty much Vegito with the negative side of Vegeta
Even DBZA understood how Babidi's mind control ability works better than this arc did. And that was a short skit for another video with jokes in them!
Tbf that's dbza, they understood the source material well enough to make alot of ppl think they did it better at some points
Dbza fundamentally misunderstands the source material and people thinking they did it better are saying it for the memes. Dbza is cancer and defending a work that has Piccolo replace Goku for the father son Kamehameha is ridiculous.
@goldgunscantshoot973 dang...on god?
@@suscrow661 sadly
@@goldgunscantshoot973Piccolo did not replace Goku for the father-son kamehameha😭
Bra also can't just hide behind the excuse of the Majin Seal made me do it since it's not Mind Control but Malice Control. So an example would be that she already had a desire to kill Gohan that the seal simply dug out rather than implanted. One of the U19 troopers was also a target simply for having unspoken feelings for another so even a positive thing like that can be a vulnerability if any desire is distorted enough.
Another major problem in the aftermath about this whole thing is that it has now rendered the character redundant as of now. From what I hear, Salagir needs to always make sure the Tournament proceeds but this particular event I think would have caused it's cancellation if we are being realistic. On a rewrite if I had to have the Majin Riot be a thing, I would have finished the actual event and then do this while it no longer restrains the plot itself.
I've also found another fan comic of this where Gohan, Videl and Piccolo were not revived leading to U16 being disqualified and Vegito ended up disowning Bra as a result of her carnage. Might be more interesting since it's first whole chapter is done.
Yeah you're right Babidi's magic technically isn't a mind control thing. It just digs up any existing malice in one's heart and brings it to the forefront and amplifies it. In other words she only fell to it because she had those desires to begin with.
@@JohnnyTightlips2007 what where is this fan comic? I got to read this
@@lightingthief4482 TheBritWriter on Deviantat.
How come all my replies are getting deleted?
@@lightingthief4482 I think blackscape covered but good luck finding it dudes bad at organizing his videos
So Dabura had a submission kink? He left his position as Lord of the demon realm because deep down he had the sick dark fantasy to be the tool of a potato wizard?
Salagir completely fumbled with justifying Bra’s fall, and tried to make it seem like it was all Vegito’s fault, their backstory proves it’s not the case. It’s like Salagir forgot that Vegito actually did preach control, and even took Bra on his space copping duties to learn about protecting the universe.
The fact that she allowed herself to fall to majinization, when the likes of Vegeta and Cell can break it just shows how weak minded of a character she is.
“You thought I did it willingly? How low is your opinion of me..”
Uh, actually, Vegito assumed you were perfectly fine and would’ve handled Babidi only to discover the slaughter you did, including to your own brother (Vegito’s son)
She only breaks out after being called “passive” which I still don’t know wtf that means
Then every character except for Pan turns on Vegito for being rightly furious with Bra, and Gotenks starts spouting nonsense drivel.
Horrible horrible writing bro
Not to mention, you can blame Vegito all you want for being a bad father (don’t really think he was)
But at the end of the day, Bra’s actions are HER OWN. SHE killed her own brother in cold blood with a smile on her face. SHE is responsible for HERSELF.
I agree with you for the most part. Bra should be held accountable for her actions. She really needed more time to develop and the weak-minded critique is something I'm divided on. On the one hand, that's her character flaw which is supposed to be fueled by her inferiority complex that she's had since childhood. On the other, this weak-mindedness and inferiority complex is so poorly handled. The whole Vegito judgment party nearly made me drop the story in its entirety, it's that bad to me.
I'm not gonna say Vegito is the best father because I really don't think he's the best, I understand the point of making Vegito his own character, however, I believe both characters were handled poorly. I can't see Vegito dismissing his child until he's helped her control her explosive power.
I also do not see Bra's character and years of emotional issues being resolved after one big, albeit traumatic, event and a conversation that doesn't address her issues but just acts like they are resolved.
The whole "you're passive" thing most likely comes from a mistranslation since the authors are French and don't speak English as their first language.
What was most likely meant to be said instead was something like "you're submissive" as in despite being one of the strongest characters in that all of the universes alone, she's still a slave to her Saiyan nature and only physically strong, not mentally.
I’ve always been under the impression that Bra has split personality disorder. Her personality literally does a full 180 when she’s in SS2, and it would explain why she didn’t break Babidi’s control. It would also make sparing her a lot more reasonable because you can’t hold the good personality responsible for the actions of the bad personality.
@@maliksyv6056 isn’t it a superiority complex and not inferiority? What does she have to feel inferior about? She’s already surpassed everyone in her universe except for her father, a literal fusion
The whole thing is a hot mess. Bra being strong make sense to some degree because of her being a offspring of a fusion(not really) but everything else is a giant no. Her getting off with what is essentially a slap to the hand for digging in a cookie jar is completely unacceptable. She WILLING allowed herself to be controlled for power. She murk multiple people and was willing to even kill off her own family so she is 100% the definition of an evil character.
And the whole thing with Vegito is a giant awful attempt at damage control due to the sheer backlash that manga had during that run( i was there with each page release and the comments were ruthless) Like come on Vegito would NOT be like that. Plus, his reaction to the situation is somewhat valid.
She should be punished for her actions....then again the manga lost like 50% of their fans so i guess that's enough
I’m ngl I haven’t read the manga since that whole fiasco so yeah you might not be lying with the loss of viewers lmao
@adreeeandanothere510 remember that the whole arc lasted for about a year, so imagine people getting increasingly angry over that period just to reach that awful end. It's no surprise that many just straight up left it alone. It is still relevant to some degree, of course, but nowhere near its prime.
Been trying to respond to your request about the other comic on Deviantart written by TheBritWriter but my other attempts have failed miserably.
@@lightingthief4482 I’m still racking my brain on why the writers wrote the end of the arc like that. Bra was essentially their own OC in terms of personality and Abilities. The focus they gave her implied they actually liked the character, and the work they put into her made it seem like she was to be ranked #1 as a fan favorite.
So what happened? Were there new writers helping with the script. Did they take the DBZ abridged joke of dragon balls making death mean nothing too literal.
50%? It's honestly more like 90% according to most website analysis.
It's just gotten worse and worse. Recently it had a chapter that was entirely the Old Kai's imagination where Kakarot and Mystic Raditz fused with the Potara earrings and somehow weren't strong enough to instantly kill Super Saiyan 3 Emperor Vegeta. Then they got defused and sent home and Vegeta won. Then it revealed nothing actually happened at all.
That was the 100th Chapter of DBM. "Literally nothing and we return to Status Quo". Honestly couldn't be more fitting.
If i had a nickel for every time someone tried to forcefully make dragonball characters cool by overloading them with edginess i would probably have enough money to buy the original IP and make dragon ball GT remake
At least ultra vegito has better writing
I love the version of Ginyu that stole King Cold's body that was so cool
Honestly his whole backstory made him out to be a giant hypocrite
I like Gogeta more than Vegito, but even I know they did Vegito dirty.
I love the concept of a spoiled brat becoming extremely powerful only to be defeated or humbled entirely. (Kinda like Hal/Titan from Megamind) because it briefly shows who they really are underneath. Vegito never taught Bra humility, and since she was born from the strongest mortal in her universe at the time she would of course be a cocky prideful asshole, my issues lie with how far they take her getting angry or her killing people than not getting a proper punishment or consciousness FOR LITERALLY KILLING MULTIPLE MEMBERS OF HER FAMILY.
They could've done something like instead of having Bra just murder everyone she probably willingly lets Babidi control her the same way Vegeta did in the Buu Saga so that she can stand up to her dad. And they have a fight as they call eachother out for their flaws with Vegito becoming a better character and Bra becoming less of a prick
How to turn the most coolest character ever into most shittiest character ever.
I get what they're trying to do, but canon completely kills any chance of redemption Bra could have.
Vegeta, when he turned into a monster, was _so_ powerful Babidi's control, even at the start was tenuous at best, and then he just broke it completely by powering up to the very limit. Bra shouldn't have a problem with that, given her massive power is probably bigger than Vegeta's.
Also, for Babidi to control someone's heart, that person has to be _vile._ I'm not talking just bitterness in general, I'm talking someone who has done heinous things in the past.
Vegeta met the requirements because he was literally a space viking who wiped dozens of innocents with a callous grin.
I honestly have no fucking clue what they were even doing with this arc, except just trying to make Bra cool and edgy.
Isn’t it HEAVILY implied that Bra has a split personality? She goes SS2 and suddenly is a totally different person with no empathy or attachment to her friends. I think Babidi gave her dark side the power to totally take her over rather than actually mind controlling Bra herself.
@@saucevc8353 That is absolutely awful writing if true
@@saucevc8353 So its like a more like ssj2 kid gohan but where they lost all sense of themselves as well and went on a saiyan rampage
@@saucevc8353 Super Saiyan 2 doesn't create a split personality. Gohan was still Gohan after turning Super Saiyan 2. Sure, it heightens a Saiyan's desire for battle, mostly due to the anger similar to how it happened to Goku as he turned Super Saiyan, but it doesn't actually turn someone into a completely different person, otherwise he wouldn't have mourned Goku the way he did, and through the rest of the fight, was completely normal.
Like, you don't see Gohan suddenly going on a fucking killing spree that extends to his friends, and turns into complete evil like Vegeta.
Hell, when one of the Cell Jr. threatened to kill Krillin, Gohan stopped, even while being callous. He only tried to kill both him and the Cell Jr. when Krillin himself told him to just do it.
I find it weird that the ppl from universe 19 didn’t get mad at Bra for killing their comrades. Goku also should’ve been mad at Bra because she literally killed his son. Pan is the only one that actually speaks which makes sense because Bra killed her father. Also universe 18 Bra seemed way too comfortable after the majin situation. She said that Bra can control herself now but she is not a fighter. Gotenks acts completely out of character because he never acted like that in the whole story. Gast Carcolh has no right to call the situation closed because he doesn’t know what happened in universe 16.
Tbh I don't think it was 'his' Gohan that died, but yeah that was a mess.
@@Naruku2121He got angry at Zamasu for killing an alternate timeline version of Chi Chi and Goten.
Of course, he'd get mad at bra for killing an alternate universe version of gohan.
@@dolionaadofa1947 But you have to remember... Salagir, the author disregards all things that were established in GT and Super.
The moment vegito gets home he's pulling out the belt I guarantee you
Son Bra is someone's Xenoverse 2 CaC lmao
Yeah, mine so I can make my other CaCs use her as a punching bag.
Kinda ironic that they had an entire character making fun of mary sues...
DBZ Multiverse has rly kept me onto their stories, specifically when it comes to Bojack and the galaxy soldiers..
It really seemed like Bojack, Zangya, Bido and his race were getting that attention that I never thought would ever surface.
The whole reason as to why Bojack and Kogu can transform is actually cool, I always use to think those earrings on their ears helped to channel that metamorphosis, but being experimented on is even cooler.
Next to cooler with SSJ’s, Bojack should’ve been SSJ2 tier, i honestly hyped him up the duration of Bojack Unbound!
The writers hate vegetto fr
DB Multiverse is an interesting concept held back by cringe writing.
This sums up a large part of my feelings on it.
Its a fan manga. Cringe is expected.
@@Web720 true.
It honestly wasn't really cringe (other than maybe the Gast vs Piccolo fight) until the story suddenly decided that Bra should take no responsibility for her actions because a wizard forced her to do it. The dialogue between Raichi and U13 Vegeta for example has some of the best writing in any fanwork I've seen for DB/DBZ.
@@Web720true but they still can do better
This was truly the multiverse of the dragon's balls 😔
I felt bad for Vegito. As his universe's protector, if Bra became evil it would be up to him to take her out. So, seeing her grow stronger each day without improving her control was grains in an hourglass. He would have to choose between his daughter and the universe.
Golly gee wilikers Batman, maybe if they didn't drag out the gosh darn arc for 4 rootin' tootin' years, maybe they could've given us a fleshed out ending instead of pulling an M8 and going "alright i'm bored now, throw a moral at it and wrap it up"
The series is almost 17 years old. I imagine their ideas for the story changed quite a bit over time
They turned my goat Vegito into something he isn't, there's barely any sign of Goku or Vegeta in him. When you see Gogeta and Vegito on screen, you can tell they're the fusion between Goku and Vegeta, their personalities are complimented by both fusions. And the fact that the writing is trying to make VEGITO SEEM LIKE THE ONE IN THE WRONG is SO messed up, I agree with the statement someone made about this being weak writing.
Agreed
Not just that, but they made vegito extremely weak in this, for some reason.
In the original anime (the version they focus on) vegito in base was stronger than super buu with gohan absorbed, and this vegito has yad 15 YEARS to train, yet he still struggles with SS3's energy waste.
Plus a kid SS2 bra, who was less than 2 times stronger than ultimate gohan is now suddenly enough to force vegito into SS2. He should have knocked her out in one attack in base form
@
Agreed
Was reading through this whole fan manga and really liking it and then when I got to the end of this whole mini-arc I could just feel my body cringing up like I ate a lemon. Bra literally let herself go under full control of Babidi (even more then Vegeta did previously) and then proceeded to kill her brother along with a ton of other innocent bystanders, and the blame is on Vegito? Always a reminder that despite some of the shaky writing in DB it can still get worse.
Agreed
i think the alternate bra getting through makes sense, who else can judge you most but yourself, how often do you think of your life and other paths you could have taken, wondered what might have been if you did X instead of Y, and then one of those other paths actually comes forward to say you messed up. itd get through.
i think the language of the speech itself was a bit clunky though
Yeah the alternate version getting through was good said that in the vid.
It's not that the concept doesn't work, it's that the writing team didn't follow the logic of the rules they set themselves.
Despite the main series making it clear that Babidis magic can only take you over if you are truly evil, they decided to change it to "Oh you have a little evil? Complete mind control"
Bra showed no signs of weakness, regret or compassion at any point. Then her alternate version who she could have easily murdered calls her weak, it breaks her entire mind control which according to their own rules, should not be possible.
They specifically say Vegeta could break through because he wanted to be given power, but because Bra didn't she should not have been able to. So either she actually is evil and the entire scene defending her is pointless or the writers are so focused on making Vegito the bad guy and Bra the victim that they don't even realize how many writing mistakes and illogical statements they are making just to get to the payoff.
"Well over 7 years" I mean 15 years is "well over 7 years" but it still sounds kinda funny
I always thought it was a missed opportunity to not have GT in a MULTIVERSE tournament. Especially since its an alt-timeline.
That's why it wouldn't make sense. GT takes place is the second timeline after future Gohan died. The main timeline, this takes place in an like alternate timeline like Super but without all the arcs.
Apparently it’s because of the creators of Multiverse don’t like GT.
I still remember the little spot where the Golden Ape appeared in the tournament with a background character saying that’s from GT and the author’s avatar smacking them and saying it’s their own thing adding them in.
Didn’t sit well with me.
@@viruschris3160 Can't get much more of a bratty, entitled response to 'why not GT?' Than directly saying 'NO, NO. THAT'S NOT GT, THAT'S ORIGINAL FOR US. US ONLY.' Glad I never kept up with this trashfire or its moronic creators. I get not liking GT, but that'd just childish.
@@PotaraGuy It’s more HOW they achieve the Golden Ape transformation with the setup, but even it was so stupid.
@@sky-oq5mrgt is future timeline?
Disregarding the very poor conclusion to the Majin Bra arc entirely the main thing that made me drop Multiverse was Vegito’s character. Like honestly I don’t get it, they turned him into a platinum rank, tier-5 tweaker for no reason 😂 a whole entire spaz that crashes out when things don’t go his way, it’s just crazy. Threatening your clearly unstable and unhinged daughter with death? Neglecting her too? Just being a massive ass in general? Who is this guy?!?! This is Saiyan saga Vegeta level. Not my Vegito at ALL!
I’ve heard that whole Vegeta not giving up his pride with the speech and it negatively impacting Vegito but I personally don’t see it because 1. Vegeta was most definitely already mulling on stuff like this in hell. 2. Vegito is a person and has both their memories so he should be able to work through that development himself, especially since half of him is one of the most humble and down to earth people around. It is an interesting path to take but I didn’t like how it was handled at all, half the time it just feels like they hate Vegito. Not to mention him just being irritating the majority of his screentime as well. Nice video too, some Bra slander is appreciated since the story seems dead set on absolving her when’s she’s done basically nothing to deserve it.
Another nonsense about multiverse vegito is his power.
He is extremely weak, this is the same vegito that was beating super buu with gohan absorbed just in his base form, but now after 15 YEARS of training. Yet he is barely stronger than his buu arc self.
They said "vegito didnt have a rival so he didnt train" but that is absolute nonsense. Both goku and vegeta, in the 7 years of peace before the buu arc, trained past their limits.
I had been reading DBM nonstop since probably before 2016. Read every chapter, followed every new page the day it released, etc. The outcome of Majin Bra made me completely drop the series and never look back. Ironically, if the writers never did a 180 and went, "She's the real victim here...", it could've been fine. Vegito was extremely hard on her, she had a history of outbursts, a heel-turn via Babidi made sense. But to say that the character who just SLAUGHTERED most of the cast INCLUDING her own family without a SHRED of remorse or pity was only stopped because she got TALK NO JUTSU'D BY HERSELF FROM ANOTHER UNIVERSE? AND THAT WE SHOULD FEEL BAD FOR HER???
Seriously, imagine that. Any efforts by her family and peers to snap her out of it fall on deaf ears and she kills them easily. But main universe Bra yells at her, and suddenly, she regrets everything and the Majin seal is gone. Gimme a break...
the author response as the question if he was a feminist, "that only asshole aren't feminist" so yeah nothing suprise me here with bra arc
That level of shit writing pisses me off
@@TsukasaF4
No surprise there…
>It is fan content
“Oh, I love fan comics!”
>Apparently, it is about my favorite fusion, Vegito.
“Oh, I hate fan comics!”
Love how there are essays on Multiverse now!!! Totally agree with everything you said. They’ve been cooking with her, however the biggest issue with her is the writing of her father, and especially that ending like you said. I’m hoping when they finally get to the “Evil Vegito” arc they’ll be able to wrap up their plot lines in an understandable way.
Keep up the good work!
I could not agree with you more. When they handed Bra's actions a 'Get Out Of HFIL Free' card (except for Pan), I stopped reading and have never gone back. I mean, they had her brag on the pages themselves that she was not brainwashed - she was 'freed'. Even before this, they turned both sets of Gotenks into her doormats and turned a practical dislike of SSJ3 into a mantra - to the point anyone who uses SSJ3 auto-loses. Damn shame, because otherwise, I enjoyed this take immensely. All fanfic authors have opinions - in my ATLA, I redeemed Mai's parents but took Toph's to task - but for DBM, they chose the wrong hills to fall on.
Pan-16: I'm glad you lived, Bra-San.
Son-Bra: Hey! What happened to Onee-Chan?
Pan-16: Yeah, that's what I was wondering.
Just wanted to add - looking back, I recall other flaws - the SSJ3 hate mantra was off-putting, but livable - it just made the stories predictable when SSJ3 was used. The 'villains win out' alt-scenarios weren't always the most creative - spam a technique and they win, exceptions being Frieza and Cell, which fit their arcs. I wonder if the super-supreme dark mysterious dude story ever panned out. But all those other flaws were the kinds of things you accept when reading a fanfic.
But in the case of the Majin Rebellion's ending, the author twisted the story to make his original, if canon-possible character correct and blameless, and that is a major DUDE NO! I once thought enough of this series that I did a one-off short 'Elfen Lied Multiverse' (Yes, I'm an EL fan, I know many are not, so no comments needed). But now? I can't even bring myself to watch a You Tube synopsis of DBM.
They made Son Bra into a Mary Sue
@@shoresean1237
I feel your pain
@@koffibentum7452
Yes, they did
@@shoresean1237Elfen Lied was alright
Dragon Ball Multiverse has been around for way more than 7 years-it first came out in 2008! This thing is practically ancient. I still remember reading it as a kid
The Vegito character assassination really only exists to make Bra look all innocent and it's arguably the worst part of the writing as a whole
Agreed
Personally I feel like even Goku would have a hard time forgiving what Bra did, she lost control of herself and transformed and in the process she ended up destroying an entire civilization that was under Vegeto's protection as well as killing her brother Goten and later when confronted she seemed like she didn't really care about any of that. Then later she gets mind controlled and goes off to kill even more people including Gohan who was one of the only people who was there for her and yet even he wasn't spared. If Goku apparently couldn't forgive Raditz for kidnapping his son then I don't see how Goku could forgive actual Genocide from within his own family.
As for Vegeta I can see him wanting to prevent his own children from committing the same mistakes he did and would harshly come down on such behavior. Like imagine if Kid Trunks was to destroy a city or something during the Buu Arc, do you think Vegeta wouldn't come down hard on Trunks for that? So to me it makes sense that both Goku and Vegeta within Vegeto wouldn't exactly tolerate their precious daughter becoming a heartless monster who feels nothing as she ends the lives of entire civilizations or even her own family.
I completely agree
He forgave frieza
I think the only way they could have executed this properly would have been making Bra far more violent and sadistic or made Vegito more like Kakarot fused with Vegeta rather than Goku
At least Vegeta took responsibility for becoming a majin. I’m sorry, but Bra has always been an uninteresting character in my eyes.
I just think she's bitchy.
Don't care what anybody says she had that coming, saying that she mind control is a terrible defense because it was already said she's capable of breaking out of it if she wanted too.
I don't really outright hate or like Bra, but I still think she got off too easy. Not saying she has to die, but she should of been disqualified from the tournament instead of conceding against Ghast. Her taking this timid selfless high ground approachJust feels jarring after her rampage and her general personality prior to that onslaught.
I don't know just hearing her being disqualified showing her consequences of her actions, and her choice in choosing or having to accept that with the weight of what she done denying the main thing she wanted to do there; it would start her character growth more sincerely than the route she actually took.
Agreed
Figured I should weigh in on this, I've been reading Multiverse for the past 5 - 6 years. A good amount of character perspectives are done better with the websites Novelization version and the U16 Special Novel detailing Vegito's life until the Multiversal Tournament. It gets you into Vegito and Bra's headspaces and makes all of their actions make far more sense. Sorry for the freaking essay dump but all of the details are needed to paint a full picture of both Vegito and Bra.
To explain Vegito in Chapter 17 of the U16 novel was conflicted having his own fullyborn child. While he viewed Gohan, Goten, and Trunks as his sons he felt somewhat distant from them, closer to a step parent in a sense so when Bulma propositioned for another child to Vegito he was both eager but also anxious for what that meant as a he was fearful of how strong a hybrid of his blood would be and he was scared of the possibility of that child becoming evil if raised wrong. He consulted with Android 18 and Elder Moori about becoming a parent and determined that he wanted a 4th child.
Despite those conversations he was a flawed father, in the Multiverse Novel on page 159, Vegito is also clueless on how to truly help his daughter with her self control, as Vegito is scared of his own psychopathic lapses of control in desiring a new challenge that he sort of leaves it up to Bra to figure it out and only steps in when she goes on tantrums. It's made even worse by Goku's nobility in him, he swore to the Kai's of Unvierse 16 that he would be the Universes greatest defender, preventing all potential dangers to the point where the common people view Vegito as a god.
That said he also took Goku's bad traits, that being his desire for a challenge. Chapter 20 of the U16 novel he genuienly contemplates tearing apart earth, Videl, and a newborn Pan to get a real life or death fight from Gohan because he was so bored and at the time Gohan was 2nd only to Vegito. This is made worse by the Vegeta in him. In U16 Vegeta never threw away his pride, while he was willing to become permanetly fused with Goku he nev had the chance to acknowledge his own faults and mutual respect to Goku like with how his counterpart U18 Vegeta. Meaning he's insecure about his own power which is why he was jealous of U18 Goku and Vegeta unclocking Normal Super Saiyan or how in the Novel's he was wary of Buu potentially training and surpassing him.
Bra like any child would of course pick up these nasty traits and habbits from her dad. She views herself as a goddess, the daughter of the greatest hero in the Universe and the younger sister of the 2nd strongest as she looks up to both Vegito and Gohan. This made her desire to grow strong but overtime she grew insecure about not reaching Vegito or Gohan's level, which is how she unlocked Super Saiyan. This is compunded by Vegito trying to help Bra in the Time Chamber, Chapter 161 of the Multiverse novel Vegito tries to coax Bra into going Super Saiyan again after she first transformed. Vegito take sthe same route Goku did against Uub to coax out his power, Vegito shamed her by calling her an embarassment and weak which while it did get her to become a Super Saiyan again but it only furthered her insecurities and unstable mindset that reached it's apex when she went SSJ2, killing Goten, destroying the planet, and making the star go supernova. The reason she's so apathetic to all those deaths is because she believes all Vegito wants is a strong daughter, the moment she proves that she is worthy of his care he tells her he's going to kill her if she gets that strong again with the Chapter 159 of the Multiverse Novel detailing that she was fobidden from going SSJ2, meaning no one helped her with her self control again and Vegito gave up on her.
Now for Bra: Oncemore the Multiverse novel version helps Bra out far more. It explains that under normal circumstances she could've resisted Babadi's Majin Mark, but the trauma of switching bodies with Ginyu along with hatchiyack, the embodiment of evil mentally taxing her even further left her vulnerable both physically and mentally to where Babadi could take her over. Factor in the sheer drunk high she was in to finally controlling her SSJ2 state and her worstened Saiyan traits being passed down from Vegito.
The reason the U18 Bra stuff works better in the Novel is that it isn't a talk no jutsu situation, the two argue and fight. In chapter 159 of the Novel U16 Bra yells about how her counterpart is weak and spoiled meanwhile U18 Bra tells her counterpart that she has Bulma, Gohan and the Son family that love her, that death isn't just some Dragon Ball day trip to fix, and even U18 Goten jumps in to sympathize and help her. The passive line works far better here as well, to take the exact words from the novels version: “Then that’s even worse, you didn’t even try to resist,” Bra spat, crossing her arms. “You didn’t bat an eyelid when you killed Gohan, who was ALWAYS considerate of you - and you’ll never convince me otherwise! You allowed your mind to be taken over, you conceded your heart to a darkness that, through you, committed absolute atrocities! So no, madam “I am the strongest”... You aren’t the best, you surrendered, you handed yourself over. For all your great strength, you just gave in. You’re completely passive.”
Yeah, this irons things out very nicely, thanks for your explanation and for watching.
Peak explanation, I actually read through all of it
So this is the result of a massive missunderstanding, it sounds like Salagir read too much on the silmarilion lmao
I still don't think that this is enough, it's like when death note fans tell you that the ending made sense in the manga. it doesn't, it just makes *more* sense which isn't quite the same.
The Vegeta that fused with Goku to become this version of Vegeto hadn't let go of his pride and acknowledged Goku as "Number 1" or redeemed himself
that all happens in the Kid Buu fight after they de-fuse, which this Vegeto never does - and Goku's experience with training Gohan would have been virtually the opposite of what Bra needed, Goku was trying to get Gohan to release his anger in the first place so he could tap into his power - he actually didn't teach him to control it, something that really bites him in the ass during the Cell Games (Gohan tormenting Cell and drawing out the fight - leading to Goku's death)
I think killing yourself isn't as easy as you might think - killing the others is pretty nuts (especially loved ones), but if you understand it in the context of growing up knowing you have the "status quo balls", it's like an internal excuse to "cut loose" - but I think a literal manifestation of trying to convince yourself that you are justified is really interesting
But I can acknowledge that I have to do a bit of mental legwork to arrive at that conclusion - I think your point is a good one, there could very easily be a parallel universe where she just killed her counterpart instantly.
I also don't love Vegeto's characterisation at times - I feel like he ought to be a little more carefree, sometimes it's like he's 85% Vegeta and 15% Goku - he's also recently becoming a bit of a "Worf" character, gets defeated or overcome by some means every few chapters to show how threatening other characters are to his detriment.
Bra was controversial long before the whole Majin Revolt ark honestly, just by virtue of being an arrogant female character that was stronger than the main cast in a medium that is consumed by a good amount of maladjusted men - and to be fair some of the criticisms were legitimately compelling like your own, either way though the writers really gave themselves a tough job that I think would have had to be immaculately written to be satisfying to most.
I love the comic and have been following it for almost it's entire run though - DBZ was hardly without flaws either - and I think Multiverse gets at least 2 things right for every 1 thing that might miss the mark, and that's pretty dang decent if you ask me.
I appreciate this comment. It’s not too often I get in depth ones like this and I love the breakdown you offer. I never thought to look at the controversy surrounding her character because of her strength/gender pairing because I didn’t think it was going to be a problem, some people are weird. I remember reading the Majin Revolt and people were fighting hard in the comments, and that’s what I remember most. Again thank you for the comment it’s a wonderful one.
I would say I liked Vegito’s characterization because of his constant protecting of the universe. As a result of being the strongest and having that responsibility that would bring out the more impatient and stubborn side of him that just wants Bra to cut it out. Essentially in the very classic saiyan way, he wants to control her anger by getting over it and focus on the task, effectively trying to ignore the problem and solve it at the same time, not affording her the time to learn and grow or even reflect.
There's a theory that Vegito will be the final villain or antagonist, BUT I'd love it if Goku and Vegeta from Uni 18 heat Vegito and weakened him to a point where someone could use the Dragon Balls to unfused him or destory the potara, and the punishment was that he was no longer the stronger warrior in his universe, and both the Goku and Vegeta post Buu have to go through some redemption and fix how they treated their daughter and try and fix what occurred with their families too.
Also people lashing out, going for bystanders until they get to the loved ones they have grievances with, then immediately having a "oh... fuck" moment is pretty realistic. Haven't seen it with downright murder yet, but the pattern is there. Bra not going for her alternative version's throat while having her "oh fuck" moment is pretty realistic, and honestly... Any other character who's just a stranger to her could survive that encounter too. At least until Babidi reasserted his control.
I guess the average person not having experience with outburst of anger is a good thing, tho.
the authors kinda shot themselves in the foot by introducing a gag character literally called "Mary Su" tbh and ppl could easily draw parallels between the joke character and say Son Bra is that character but unironically, even if its not entirely true its the first impression a reader might have
_That thought was Kefla on the thumb. 😆_
People should remember that DBM was the only thing Dragonball fans could look forward to since Super wasn't even a thing back then, infact the DB franchise was pretty much dead and only relying on videogames and merchandise sales. The fact that it managed to keep going after all this time while keeping up with updates has solifidied its status as one of the most iconic DB fanmangas out there.
Also yes, Bra is fucking horrible as a character.
DBM is probably older than a 1/3 of current Dragonball fans
Think this is bad for a single character? Wait until you see the colossal mess that is Ultra Vegito. Cause hold shit that series went overboard on every level
Not a fan of Ultra Ego either. I think it's kinda dumb but hopefully, it's not a form Vegeta will constantly lose in.
She needed to learn her place
DB Multiverse actually has been around since 2008, way longer than 7 years. I remember reading it wayy before Battle of Gods was a thing
It's crazy Multiverse even predates Evolution by a year. It might be the oldest DB fan fiction still running, as Toyotaro left AF behind to go join Shueisha
That endings really ruin the loved that Bra originally had because really she should have gotten some kind of punishment as babidi magic isn't 100% mind control, and it really doesn’t help that Cell who should be more evil than Bra was able to comtrol himself and help out the good guys. Vegito getting talk down is fine IF it was just about him trying to kill her and the fact that he didn’t even try to raise her correctly which by the way that weaken the hype that the evil vegito arc because now people are concern with the reason why he become evil, heck it might get people to side with Vegito or showcase a complete 180 of the character.
Indeed
The over fixation on Bra, odd writing choices and out of place swearing, is what got me. Note that I have zero issue with swearing in and of itself, as the original series had plenty of instances of it, just nowhere near the extremes of Multiverse's.
Odd is an understatement
I’ve always loved this story, I’m glad it’s still getting support, despite it’s flaws.
So ever since I've kept up with the multiverse story, i was curious on how vegito interacted with his universe. Seeing a version of Bra that is Vegito's child would've been to me an interesting dynamic, but once I've seen the backstory of how the two interact, it feels like his Vegeta side shows a lot more from how inpatient he is. I agree that bra needs to be held accountable for her actions during the babidi revolt arc, but she also needs help as well that vegito will never do
Dragon Ball multiverse has such good concept if they just rewrote some stuff and added dbs and dbgt characters imagine a dbz vs dbs broly son bra vs caulifla and kale
Or stuff from the videogames like the time patrol since all of these different timelines exist
The gods of destruction as well
The refusal to try implement the newer dragon ball content as well the writing itself is holding this fan Manga back
If only we as DB fans could make this happen in Sparking zero. I would make piccolo fuse with guru before he dies, put buu in the dragon ball super era, make trunks ssj god and so much more.
Like if this vegito fused before vegeta's final resolve you know the moment he decides he wont be the same way he once was and fused to fight buu when he awakened then I would see why vegito is so pressed about pride and bieng the strongest but at the time goku and vegeta fuse vegeta is a guy with a pure heart so vegito's character doesnt make sense vegito is only like that so she can a tragic backstory
Vegeta hasn't changed even his character development he got in z and still acts like a child in super.....so it's pointless either way
@@sridrawings4510 the backstories for the comic and the comic itself were bieng written before super and i have not read much of super past top but from what I can guess its just a rivalry they always had like in the buu saga but this time vegeta wont allie himself with the villan just for a chance to defeat goku
In a mid-2021 Twitch live, Salagir, DBM's author was asked: "Is Bra depicted the way she is because you are feminist"
His answer was: "If you are not feminist, you are an as*hole"
All of a sudden, Bra's characterization throughout the story makes sense.
… That makes way more sense than it should.
Ah, the mystery is gone now. It all makes sense.
@@Avaruusmurkku
Yes indeed
Yep, that explains everything.
I personally think that they should have made babadi mind control more powerful and different from the original. Instead of the person evil in there heart is intensified, it should have been changed to something like the higher the emotions or stress the faster you become either a mindless solider or slowly lose your mind and become crazy. I think something like this would make the character killing family members make a bit more sense without all of the controversy. I also think if they added a scene were vegito is about to kill her but hesitant which would flash back to vegito telling her he would kill her was more a tactic to scare her from doing anything evil or reckless. Haven’t really thought super in detail about everything, just throwing my thoughts out there.
this is the most thoughtful analysis of bra I've seen. The comment section page to page just ranted about her being too strong or bratty. Like yeah man she's the combined child of the two strongest figters in the known universe raised by the ritchest smartest woman alive. She is literally the kid of the two most important people in the world of course that would lead to some behavioral issues especially if vegito as portrayed here is as short tempered as he is.
Multiverse has made many inconsistencies leading up to this arc and before. This really doesnt come as shock on how they handle this. Hopefully we get a DB fan made project that is above mediocrity
Isn't there a chapter in this series where someone has a future vision of Vegito destroying the multiverse because he's salty for losing a fight? And he's the one preaching bra about controlling anger
Vegito ten years down the line being bad does make sense in concept. just based on how miserable his existence is.
Universe 16 is another universe where things went wrong? Vegito is a horrible ending for Goku and Vegeta.
As Vegito Goku has no purpose. He's the strongest in the universe. The biggest fish in the sea. He can't test or improve his abilities. He's too strong. In 10 years he wasn't injured once. Goku lives to challenge himself and improve and now there's no challenge. There's nothing for him.
And as Vegito, Vegeta he wanted to prove he was the strongest for his pride and he became the strongest But it's like a monkey's paw wish.
He can never prove himself because he didn't surpass his rival he became one with his rival. He's the strongest in the universe, but didnt earn it. There's no one strong enough to be a challenge for him to defeat which would reinforce his pride. So he'll never feel accomplished. He'll never feel satisfied.
Being Vegito is both of their worst nightmares. No wonder they both would rather risk the universe, risk their own existences, fighting kid Buu over fusing into that thing again.
Being an aimless and insecure God for 10 years is enough to make me believe that Vegito would go bad.
I think the issue here where I have to disagree harshly is in regards to her not killing the alternate reality version of herself.
The reason she broke free from Babidi's control is because that version of Bra was basically saying everything her surpressed negative thoughts were, a little voice the back of your head acknowledging your flaws and your problems that Babidi managed to surpress with his mind control and bring all of Son Bra's issues to the forefront in full force. For all intents and purposes, and all their different personality traits, Son Bra is still Bra. They are still likely similar in thought processes at least and even Majin Vegeta was able to resist Babidi's control.
It's not about consistency when it comes to Babidi's mind control, it's about circumstances. Vegeta was able to resist his urge to kill Goku to take out Majin Buu. Bra was able to resist the urge to kill Bra because Bra is her.
Vegito also isn't the one we see in Super. He's fresh off the Majin mind control and is before he gets rid of his inferiority complex. This will carry over the fusion and frankly we don't actually know what Vegito's personality is like outside of battle.
Do I think Vegito should have went for the kill? No. Do I understand why he did? Yes. Power on the scale of Dragon Ball is incredibly destructive, you simply cannot lead to the destruction of a solar system to unlock a new form. Son Bra is a lot more Saiyan then any of the other Half-Saiyans and seems to have taken on their worst traits. The comparison to Broly is accurate.
When thinking of this story, I thought about Majin Vegeta's decisions, and I was divided on what my take would be for this character. Rereading the battle royale and looking at how she took down her older brother I just couldn't see her alternate version being the reason she breaks after everything. I still think it was a good decision to have her break the trance of her other self, and the explanation you provide is good too. Hearing about killing yourself from an alternate universe is hard, yes but I would argue killing your blood brother who's watched you grow up and spent probably a lot of time with you that, possibly more than your own father would, has to be way tougher in my eyes. Yet, she does it without flinching.
@@maliksyv6056 This is exactly why I think she does it without flinching is that she KNOWS him well. That can have a lot of complicated feelings that can surface in violence imo. She knows exactly what he would say and is prepared to hear it.
What does she expect to hear from Bra, though? Pleas for her life because she's so weak. Fear. A weakling with no power.
She failed to remember that just like her, she had Bulma's fierceness. She may not have the power to back it up, but she has the nerve of a woman who slapped a God of Destruction without hesitation. She didn't think Bra was like her in any respect outside of appearance.
I remember reading multiverse years ago. Im not quite sure what arc it was up to at the time but I remember a consensus that a good number of people didn’t like Bra because she was basically a Mary Sue, being presented as The Strongest and outclassing many other characters who fans were more interested in seeing, it was very clear that she was an Author’s pet. Can’t comment on later chapters because I stopped reading it when I caught up years ago though.
I genuinely loved the character, probably my favorite out of the multiverse. True there was some parts here and there but considering this was fan made, I didn’t mind🤷♂️ can’t wait to see if they top goku vs vegeta tho🙏
Man, I remember reading DBM way back when, but sort of stopped (I think it was due to distraction and just losing interest as a result from not reading after so long), so this is surprising. I think I stopped reading somewhere between Chapter 38 and 46. Honestly, I'm surprised it's still going.
I feel like being faced with an alternate version of yourself would give anyone pause. I know that they've lived significantly different lives but I'm 100% sure weak bra would have incites that no one else would. There is a deeper Inherent connection that these two characters share.
Also I actually do like how vegito is depicted. He isn't just a combination of goku and vegeta he is his own character. And his life choices have put him on a different path than the sum of his parts. That's good character writing. Also think of why vegito was created. He was made to kill an incredibly strong threat to the universe, buu. He doesn't have a childhood arc or purpose beyond defending the universe. That's gonna give a guy a complex. Ultimate power corrupts.
i like how Vejito is depicted in multivers having the worst personality traits of Goku and Vegetta , but having their best phisical traits
glad to see someone take an objective view on son bra. most people i've seen just write her off as a mary sue and are done with it. I often wondered if the issue with her mental state might be due impart to being the daughter of a fusion. Z vegito always felt like the worst parts of goku and vegeta mashed together (vegeta's arrogance and goku's inability to take fights seriously from the start) I figured something like that was going on with Bra, but nothing has been shown regarding that. Just Too much power + reckless behavior.
Whoever wrote Vegito must be a hater while also being a Gogeta glazer 💀 Pathetic how they did Vegito.
This chapter was so bad two moderators of the website, Ashanark and Stouty_22, left because of it. Ashanark's perspective of how he felt the story at this point was doing a disservice to it's characters, especially Bra's characterization and Vegito's "intervention", is actually very interesting to read.
Really?
What sucks about that especially is Ashanark, from what I recall from my memory alone, typically had a positive mindset on where the story was headed and seemed genuinely excited when Majin Bra was revealed since, again, if I'm remembering this right, had been predicting this for a while and arguing as to why it'd be a good narrative decision.
It's so shitty that they took that good decision, only to then butcher it right after lmao.
As before, this comment section demonstrates, once characters get a little bit of complexity, people lose their mind and spew nonsense after nonsense. So as a reminder :
-Bra didn't get willingly under Babidi's control, it happened during Hatchiyak onslaught wich weakened her mind and made the mind control possible. If she had done so willingly, she would have no reason to break it later. As of Majin Vegeta, he let Babidi give hium the power up, but he is so strong-minded (not a question of ki) that he resisted the orders of the sorcerer. His mind was more powerful than Bra. The daughter of Vegetto isn't perfect, but she isn't a monster either.
-Vegetto is the definition of frustration. Nobody to fight for years, no rival, just a life of boredom. In the fiction part of the story, he even feels frustration when Gohan show his full power during the fight, a full power that would get him a bit of a fight. It's like an itch that grow stronger with time, becoming unbearable. Yet, he shows no patience toward the training of Bra in her younger years, so much that Gohan take his place and even with that he tries to stay joyful toward her and be a father figure for her, especially before fighting Zangya. Vegetto didn't become a monster, but he still is instable, wich may be because of the potara, after all, almost two opposite personality were fused in one for years. The worst part is that he jumped to conclusion and tried to kill his own daughter for actions that you could easily blame Babidi for.
So all in all, DBM isn't a perfect fanmanga. There is flaw, some ideas were scraped after years of writing, some personnality change, but it's far from being a shitshow or just "vEGeTtO bAshIng" like some likes to subject. Bra isn't a Mary Sue, either. She made a lot of mistakes and can show instability. Instability that Vegetto has too, for different reasons. But as it stand, Bra and Vegetto are very good characters, ways more nuanced that it seems.
Good vid, I like DBM, but Bra and Vegito just get under my skin a bit with how they're characterized, and I've skimmed the comments around and I do I agree with what I've read. I said something with how I felt about these two in a comment on Fandom, that I'm gonna share here
Warning it's hella long, I went off on these two:
Vegito is a terrible parent, dude threatened his daughter on multiple occasions and even tried to kill her(even though at that point she kinda deserved it). His most petty reason for trying to kill Bra was because she'll end up stronger than he will be, even stated that he'll kill her before that happens. Plus dude, was complete man-child, when he lost his round and got back all I heard was complaining from this guy, and when Gohan told him to leave, he left, but in private he said I quote "I wanted to punch Gohan so bad!! Even though he was right, I wanted to break his skull". AGAIN, Vegito is HALF OF GOKU! Yet he acts like he doesn't care about breaking his half-son's face(keep in mind Pan was still dead after Bojack killed her they needed to wait for the officials to use the Dragon Balls to bring her back), he's selfish only thinks about himself and his fights for as long as he enjoys it, worse yet he thinks he's the leader of everything, when he and a few others were trapped in another realm, he started complaining that no one was listening to him. And got pissed off when Goku and Vegeta were getting stronger, not as strong as him, but he was practically mad about nothing. I won't lie the moment he got his body broken, I was glad cause someone finally shut him up.
All because he's "Cursed to be the strongest" DUDE YOU HAVE A DAUGHTER YOU CAN PROPERLY FATHER AND TRAIN!
Bra isn't out of the woods either, wanting to act all cocky and arrogant cause she has all that power and is jealous and peeved at her father for being stronger than she is, like girl he's a fusion of two of the most powerful warriors of your time, of course he's gonna be stronger! Worse yet, when she got controlled by Badidi, she didn't even try to struggle or break free, she just let's herself be consumed, she even protects Badidi just so she can keep her powers. She kills piccolo, kills Gohan, like her actual half-brother Gohan, so that's twice she's killed her siblings(on Goku's side too), and kills a person who she promised to save her planet. All this cause she felt weak and insignificant, when it was literally opposite, she's praised by her friends and family for being powerful, she's literally the daughter of the richest women on earth and the strongest being the universe, so you know for a fact she was a bit spoiled, but still didn't want to learn her lesson, it's only when Bra(vegeta's daughter) finally spoke to her she got it in her thick skull(which she got from Vegito)
Again I like DBM, it's just some of the characters really could've been better(mainly Bra and Vegito), I know Vegito is suppose to be his own guy with his own mindset and stuff, but come on he's Goku and Vegeta at his very core. And Bra's personality is a craft from all the things she's done, but you'd think she'd be at least more humble or something. Have her be cocky to her opponents and get an attitude when she fights, or be angry when the moment it right(like with Pan's death) but let her also be humble, accepting with her dad being the strongest, but also still respectful in wanting to surpass him, but not in a "Boohoo my dad is stronger than me wah" kind of way.
Dragon Ball Multiverse Vegito, is just some guy mad that things don't revolve around him. DBM Bra is just a brat who's mad thing's didn't go her way.
In all honesty, the only good character there in my opinion, was Zen Buu, he was zany, but funny, I enjoyed his antics, and the voice Mondo Cool gave him.
a bit unrelated but i would really like to see a crossover with the dbs characters, i don't know like a surpise guests kind of deal, or maybe beerus wanting to show off how powerful their universe is, and the team i would like to see would be: goku, vegeta, gohan, piccolo, broly, 17, 18 and frieza, imagine the interaction: goku and vegeta showing off the god forms, piccolo with orange, gohan with beast, golden/black frieza and dbs broly getting weird looks because of what happend with Z broly
also vegito shitting himself realizing all of them are far stronger than him
The problem is tho, Bra is MOSTLY to blame. Its not like Babidi slid into her dreams and mind controlled her, she WILLINGLY allowed herself to be controlled after being promised more power. Even after everything that's happened she still ONLY cares about being stronger.
Vegetto's characterization is all over the place. We're talking about a fusion of Goku and a Vegeta that at point had sacrificed himself, and accepted to fuse because of what happened to his family. A guy that was literally chapters away from getting a redemption by getting revived. I do not buy for a second that a fusion between those two at that point in time would be such a dick. It feels like the writer just wanted him to be that way just so it could fit the story he wanted to tell.
The thumbnail and the word “multiverse” made me think this was about Caulifla lol. I forgot this was a thing
Multiversenhas been on for way longer than 7 years. Its been on since 2008. Thats 14 years
That's 16 years.
Yeah this part of the story was definitely the clunkiest. That Vegito scene became a huge meme!
[Long comment incoming lmao] It sucks that the discourse on the character hasn't improved at all or become even slightly more interesting after all these years.
First of all, I don't get this "Vegito was disrespected" angle. Vegito was *hardly* a character in DBZ, and the little we saw of him, he was immensely arrogant. It almost seemed like a fusion of Goku and Vegeta's worst traits. His portrayal takes some liberties, sure, but I don't see how that's a bad thing.
Moving on to Bra herself, she's a byproduct of her environment and conditions of her very existence. She was born into ridiculous amounts of power which put her as superior immediately, was deliberately *taught* she was superior from the get-go, seemingly neglected by her father for some time and on top of it had this damn near sociopathic perspective on life due to the Dragon Balls restoring any lives that were taken at any given moment. No, she's not the result of *trauma*, but the result of the conditions of her environment and her dad's genes.
Yes, bra sucks. That's the whole point. And it's been stated to oblivion by the writer himself.
Now, is she handled correctly? No. Not at all. A lot of the writing regarding her *does* in fact seem to either justify her actions or downplay them by characters who, by all accounts, should have all the reason to hate her or at least be weary of her. Passively writing her out the story after the Majin arc was so cowardly in my opinion where the Majin arc itself could've been a chance to redeem her character.
All in all, the concept of Bra as a character is dope as hell and really interesting. Her character is more nuanced than most people give it credit for. Is she a *very well-written character?* In my opinion, not really. But a lot of the discourse centers around the wrong things entirely.
If you have a kid with the DNA of two universe-level Saiyan warriors, one of which is a prideful Saiyan elite, have her be raised by a god and spend her whole childhood among other ultra-powerful warriors, of course she's gonna turn out the way she did. Fighting is what matters the most to Saiyans, especially Goku and Vegeta. Coupled with the aforementioned god fusion potentially killing her if she ends up doing something wrong, of course she's gonna want to become as strong as possible. If you put all these expectations on your 16 year old daughter, It doesn't excuse everything she did, but that's just how she was brought up. It also helps that the author intentionally wrote Son Bra to be an asshole, which I like. I love villain protagonists.
One of my favorite Dragon Ball fan mangas
Bro was definitely an Etika viewer back in the day #joyconboyz4ife
Hell yeah man, thank you for watching.
It’s a bit interesting how Vegito was characterized in Multiverse. The only justification I can see for his actions and attitude are the fact that once he defeats, Buu, he’s yearning for another opponent to tango with his power, and having to train becomes a bore since he’s still looking for someone to push him to his limits in the ultimate fight. This still is a stretch to say the least
The fact that they gave toratoru the keys to the kingdom when the guy who did this was right there is such a shame
On the one hand, I didn't mind Son Bra all that much as a character, and felt that she was decently written.
On the other, I stopped reading *long* before the Majin arc came to a close and the coming "Vegito is actually evil" twist turned out to just be him *justifiably* afraid of the damage his absurdly powerful and almost certainly psychotic daughter could cause.
This is why we stay with ultra vegito he is so good cannon in my eyes this version is wasted potential
I'd say vegito daughter is Narcissistic it took only herself to see the light as sad as it is
Is "have yourself a damn goodone" an etika reference
Yeah, I'm an old fan.
@maliksyv6056 same here bro, Joycon Boyz Forever ✊🏾
Joycon Boyz!
Mind you she did all of this with some sense of awareness so she was fully conscious when she killed gohan and the others if a buu saga vegeta can overcome babidi's control than bra who is like many times stronger than him should do the same but obviously didn't. I mean bra was so cold and evil that she made vegito wanna kill her fuckin vegito who has literally the mind and body of goku the most nicest and merciful person you can ever meet. If make vegito wanna kill u that means you must have done something seriously fucked up to make him wanna rage out like killing his son gohan, threaten pan, murder piccolo or destroy a planet full of innocent lives and guess who did ALLL of that lol
I can at keast see Bra being so self-important that literally the only person she'd listen to in her state was another version of herself. It's obviously far from a perfect solution, I can see some logic to it.
But yeah, Vegito got done dirty.
I Agree her ending iS LIKE OH MY GOSH DUDE i complained about this when it first came out
She murdered an entire solar system earlier already and then Vegito already made it his duty to to protect the universe. He's bra murder so many of the multiverses contestants and somehow he is the bad guy? I Agree that they should of stopped him from killing her because wether its goku or vegeta i dont care a father killing their own child will fuck them up for life. They could of had the kai's say they have seen enough of creation to know that his heart means well but it would be the wrong thing for him to do given his state of mind
. But her being "understood" is like waaaaaaaaay outta pocket. I Think they should of had her either die and then come back and go to some weird version of limbo/hell Or the reason behind her madness actually explored. I always felt it was a broly like situation where there is a natural madness coupled with something that keeps them going into the deep end..Wether its Z broly (Which was poorly done) or Super broly (Which is must better done)...
But she is a genocidal mass murderer and all she got was a pat on the back for her actions and a "she understands" her ways now like no she don't
I Think vegito not being the best father is somewhat ok due to the fact that goku despite understanding gohan when he was teen didnt really fully understand his needs until the cell games...and Vegeta despite being better can still be stubborn. I think the overconfidence of vegito and currate that scenario but its not really ever shown other than the one line of "You dont get that power and not lose some compassion" which seems more like a remark to be broken and deconstructed than to be adhered to
When goku and vegeta fight in ultimate potential unleashed forms. Vegito is pissed rather than elated to see that his individual parts reached a power that could match him on some level without needing fusion. it would be a good place for him to realise his complacency and how he could of messed up with bra but instead he just hides into himself
Reminds me of that one fan manga where beerus revives cell to push gohan and cell kills pan and shit before gohan crashes out and kills him and somehow Goku is ok....Vegeta justifies it as gohan needing to be better EVEN THOUGH HE DOES NOT LIKE FIGHTING and Beerus telling him to suck it up and Gohan (Despite getting stronger) just takes it like i hate that shit so much its just injustice to the highest degree and removes value from the motive of the story
Super broly is the worse version. He literally just mad to be mad. His entire backstory is he got sent off as a kid then Frieza finds him and that's his whole life. Dbz broly was tortured as a newborn being stabbed and thrown in the garbage and spent years conquering and destroying the southern galaxy where pikkon stayed. He then gets taken over by his dad and when he's finally free he becomes his true self again. Dbs broly is nothing but grunts and yelling meanwhile dbz broly was smart, cocky and tactical. Idk how anyone could ever say dbs broly was better written when he wasn't written at all
@@sky-oq5mr Thing is, Z Broly doesn't have ANY type of character development, which Super Broly does.
Besides, Super Broly is all grunting and yelling because, guess what? He's in a totally uncontrollable psychotic state where even he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing.
(you're right on dbs broly's backstory though, should've been more interesting than staying on a random planet untill frieza recruits him again)
Edit: Let me name examples because I see the complain coming. Super Broly actually had some moments to develop his character with Lemo and Cheelai. Sure, those talks might seem to be filler, but those talks are important to the progression of his character and make some desicions actually makes sense. It also shows us how Broly sees the world and how he interacts with it. The problem with Z Broly not having any character development comes from the fact that he's always in one-dimensional thinking. Sure, his Legendary Super Saiyan lines are memorable, but what is his logical thinking besides of "I want to destroy because that shit rocks"? That's just Kid Buu or Janemba level of motivation, but at least they have the argument of being monsters of pure evil. Or what, are they bad because they're always grunting and yelling too?
@@TruxySSJ Z broly had character development. He went from a sad depressed voiceless wuss into a psycho maniac monster like the legends said the legendary super Saiyan would be. He had way more character development than dbs broly. What I see from what you're saying is, since he didn't end up trying to be a good guy that's the problem when it's not. He's evil, pure evil like Vegeta described the legendary super Saiyan to be. He couldn't even form proper sentences until he finally broke his chance, killed the main that put him in those chains aka his father. It's a deep story for dbz broly. He saves his father from king vegeta and Frieza but losses control when he unlocks ssj as a child and clobbered his dad. His dad thinking this mf is going to destroy everything like the legends states, so he puts some restraint on him. This causes even the dad to be corrupt because he can have his son do whatever he wants now so he gets drunk off power while his son is miserable. Dbs broly got all his forms randomly one after another which is another corny trope that ruins these characters in dbs. Z broly already had ssj but was restrained to use it's full power which was why it was blue when he had the head piece on. Dude erased the southern galaxy and adds to a possibly on who killed pikkon when he was strong enough to one tap perfect cell. I'm not gonna say super perfect because I'm unsure about that.
I have to disagree in bra not killing the other bra, because she personally think of herself better than the other one due to her ego she wanted to show the other bra how she was inferior
Ah db multiverse perfectly balancing ocs and canon together its only equal being FunnySexyDB.
Running into yourself is would spook you too.
she was such a well built character till they didnt punish her actions or atleast give it longer lasting effects (majin bra thing)
I can certainly understand that you don't just kill someone who looks exactly like you and maybe listen to them. Even if you are in a rage.
i never seen this multiverse but the vegito comments funny af 😂😂😂