I added both Low ball and correct scaling Low Ball - above 10 D accurate - Layers Outer There is also a misconception that otherworld is not Outer because it has a past , present and future . Debunk here ---> th-cam.com/video/NncQqtvKfvY/w-d-xo.html
With goku was able to blow up the entire universe7 when he was weaker than his current base form , base goku is outerversal to few layers into outer , and high outer at full power. W vid
@@alastor1419 shut up lol akuto sai is only around universal Gilgamesh is complex multiversel and featherine is only human since she's just a fictional character in a show drawn by another fictional character while Dragon Ball is high outerversal level to boundless
As a Dragon ball scaler, I honestly really do appreciate this scale, I knew some things about the cosmology and I thought I knew a lot until I saw this video. Thank you!🎉👍🏾😁
@@aafresh-yt4363 That would be high outer, reaching high outer level is not as simole as just being superior to an outerversal construct, you need to be like "outerversal × outerversal" or "outerversal²" to be high outer. Boundless is way beyond that, not just an "outerversal³" or "high outerversal²", Boundless surpass the extension of all the hierarchies, we can take is as the extraversal lvl of CSaP ("if we take outerversal as 1, and high outerversal as 2, extraversal would be infinity") a realms in DB that would be Boundless is Toriyama's creator realm, where he creates the whole story and verse (and is obvious why is the highest peak of the verse), and everyone who scales to Toriyama's level can be scaled to boundless, some of those characters being: Dr. Slump ones; current Goku (because SSB Goku [pre ToP I think] was able to put up a fight against her); all the hakaishins because of being on a similar rank of Beerus, who shown that he was vastly superior to Arale, and he was able to erase a being that even Toriyama couldn't erase (yeah, Beerus > DB's whole creator); all the angels; Daishinkan/Grand Priest; zeno; Zalama and Super Shenron; etc
In power scaling there are two ways to determine how higher dimensional construct works it can have multiple coordinates of different axis beyond something that only has a limited amount of vector spaces for example a mathematical model can be represented as a space that can exist in 3 different axis of coordinates and 4 dimensional spacetime is a mathematical model beyond the 3 dimensions of space because it has a extra temporal dimensions that has it own axis in different points in time on a 3 dimensional space something else can be equivalent to higher dimensions for example there can be a infinite amount of 2D square stack on top of each other but it won’t be enough to fill up a 3D cube because it has a 3 axis of space beyond any 2D model there can be a higher level of infinity like a uncountably infinite set amount of 2D square can fill up the entire 3D space of the cube because it also includes all of the real numbers negative or positive and even the decimal points.
@@Crashboy757 so the living universe contents super space and sokuroku space threre is multiple and this three complete transcend to eachother and otherwrold is wrold that views the mortal wrold as its a lower realm meaning threre god and nothing relation i can't send the scans for it in TH-cam it can even go higher
Dimentions would crush an infikite universe , infinite dimentions and super buu can desrroy it , wouldn't this mean that its Infinite dimentional or high hyperversal ?
No but this easily make Buu low multiversal at maximum. which is 4th dimensional. Just by screaming buuhan was stated to collapse dimensions on each other which would have crushed the entire living universe which is a truly infinite 3 dimensional space time continuum making it a low 4D feat maximum. Anything under this would be lowballing him for no reason. No reason at all.💯 Goku and Beerus fight in battle of gods would easily be High hyperveral to outerversal minimum. Since they was stated to wipe out the entire Macrocosm in seconds just from shockwaves. If they could wipe out the living universe which is low 4D due to it having an infinite 3 dimensional space time continuum, and the afterlife which is stated to be infinitely 4D making it low 5D minimum. And grand Kai realm sits even higher possibly making the dragonball cosmology 6D. that means Goku was already 5D by battle of gods. He folds Superman no question. I just had to say it 😂
Yo Guys Imagine if the Marvel Universe and the Dragon Universe were in the Same Universe!!! And Homelander gets Teleported to there! Homelander would Truly be a Big Fish in an Infinite Ocean! At least he’ll Never be the Strongest being Alive like ever!!!! What do you guys Say?
At least you have used logic and data to sustain your thesis of dragon ball being outer, unlike some people who want to make reality based on their convenience.. However, I kinda don't understand. The definition of outerversal you just gave is based off which tiering system? Because, as far as I know, to be high hyperversal, there must be an infinite dimensional hierarchy inside the verse, which is not the case with dragon ball, as you said, the verse caps at 10d, which would be high complex multiversal total cosmology. and to reach outerversal, you must have a cosmology which reachs high 1b, which means, that there must be an infinite dimensional hierarchy, and that infinite dimensional hierarchy must be transcended by another construct or character that has qualitative characteristics of power and transcandence that reaches a point where the said character or construct becomes ultimately superior and unreachable even to that infinite dimensional hierarchy, dwarfing it into oblivion the only thing that being above the space and time of the afterlife proves, is that goku's dimensional power transcended the afterlife, making him the same dimensionality or 1d higher, this does NOT put ANYONE in outer. To be outer, Goku should've done the exact same thing in a construct which has an nfinite dimensional hierarchy, which he did not You cannot jump tiers like thar, in every tiering system possible, doing such a thing is just seen as an hyperbole or fallacy, that falls apart without further context and evidence When scaling a verse, you must gradually go up, from the bottom to the top, not going from a 5d construct to something that utterly transcends infinite d... time and space are things that make space-time up, both time and space are transcended when you add one dimension to it, Goku transcending the space and time of afterlife which is 5d at best, makes him equal or 1 higher d, as simple as that. I agree thar db is downplayed, but this is just insane. If you wish to debate me or prove me wrong, feel free to do so, but if any child come up to me only to be arrogant and disrespectful, you'll be ignored, because, if you have good arguements, there is no way to be disrespectful. Nothing I just said in this comment was disrespectful at all.
listen if a realm or character is above space and time , it wouldn't be outerversal because the character or realm is still bounded by 4D space and time and so on this continues till ∞D a 3D object exist because of 3 dimensional space and time , and so on which means every thing exist because of space and time even if it is ∞D construct (high hyper) to surpass high hyperversal you should exist literally in the absence of time and space the first part of video which scales to 10D is just a lowball actual scaling is at the end otherworld has no time and space yet there is an entire system running in there if a thing exist without any time and space this would be outer because things are suppose to exist within a dimensional limit/construct
@@khalilanime923 Having an own systematic existence is not outer either You said that transcending time and space of a 4d realm isn't outer because it's still bounded by 4d and at the end you said that the other world is outer for transcending time and space, either you contradicted yourself or I didn't understand And, I cannot agree, a high 1b space is limited by a completely different amount of space than a 4D construct, each dimension added to the hierarchy transcends the other and adds another infinity in space, to make it a coordinated space, that means, each dimension transcends the space and time of the other, if each transcendence of space and time qualified someone for outer, then a high 1b space would be layers into boundless
@@khalilanime923 sorry, tiering system rules, i know it's annoying but it's the rules, stamentes like that simply fall apart without further context and/or evidence, this statement of transcendence of space-time adds 1 dimension. there is no such thing as saying "it transcends any form of space and time", this is like saying it transcends anything, because that is what make any existence up, regardless of the size, this is like that good ol' fallacy of "my verse is beyond fiction", this doesn't exist. there is no way the tiering system and the powerscaling rules will make exception for a single verse because the fans want it to, each dimension added to the hierarchy transcends the space-time of the lower dimension infinitely, that statement adds 1 dimension to the otherworld, nothing more than that. yeah, maybe we won't agree with each other at all. and that's fine, let's take it like grown ups, have a nice day
(1) So you're assuming that the DB Universe is infinite because of the 1st and 2nd scan? - The 1st literally doesn't say shit about there being infinite space. Again, I don't know how on Earth you argue that the universe being described as having Endless expansive space is the same thing as saying it's infinite, instead of a figurative speech or just a hyper bole. You can even use everything in this exact scan as a way to describe our Universe and it wouldn't even contradict anything. Atleast the non supernatural part. Other then that the description of endless expansive space, innumerable nebulae can literally be used in case of our own Universe and it wouldn't even be wrong. - Again, infinitely, endless, innumerable are often used figuratively, metaphorically or hyperbolically l. You would need more proof to confirm that this isn't being used hyperbolically. (2) Kai's realm being larger then an infinite realm (assuming it is infinite) wouldn't scale to 5D. For something to be considered 5D, it needs to either be uncountably infinite times greater then the 4th Dimensions or must host an uncountably infinite number of 4D standard universe Models at the bare minimum to be scaled to 5D. A perfect example of this is Everett's MWI which is used by the OPM cosmology. A 4D universe that is larger then an infinite universe would not automatically mean it's uncountably infinite in size and to do so it would require further context. An MWI multiverse requires a 5D as it helps explain the non-interactions between other separate universes. They can only be identified separately and allow each Universe in these uncountably infinite amount to be both 4D and seperate. In a 4D, uncountably infinite universe, such a distinction isn't required, since there are only uncountably infinite points in the space-time of the Universe and since no seperate or discrete entities are needed to be taken account for, they can be explained using only our general 4D understanding of the universe. (3) Data books saying that the dimensions of Enma's Realm doesn't mean that the word dimensions is referring to actual spatial dimensions. Dimension itself means- (1) A measurable extent of a articular kind (2)An aspect or feature of a situation. (3) Form or shape to particular measurements. Both (2) and (3) can be used definitively without suggesting it to be actual spatial-temporal dimensions.This can simply be referring to size, an aspect of it or more. Especially since the 1st 2 scan's never 100% clearly confirmed that the Universe is infinite with infinite galaxies. Without context this can't be used for accurate scaling. (4) I don't know what the fuck the last few scans even showed that would even put it at 6D. If you're trying to argue that the afterlife containing a 5D realm makes it 6D, then that's quite stupid. A larger 4D structure can contain a smaller 4D structure in the same way. For example, I our own Universe let's say beyond the observable universe, a structure encapsulates the observable universe, this doesn't mean that the structure encapsulating this 4D universe is 5D as without context it could very well just be a larger 4D construct containing a smaller one. This doesn't prove the higher dimensionality of said realm completely. At best it would scale to 5D and not 6D. (5) There isn't any confirmation the Kaioshin realm being larger then the afterlife so this wouldn't scale anywhere. (6) The living realm is stated to be infinite. However, if we use Toriyama l's own diagrams, the notion that heaven is wider then the universe is contradicted and only the hell and enma realm could be argued to equate an infinite universe completely (assuming it is infinite) (7) Just because Zeno's realm is outside the universes doesn't mean it's larger then the lower realms. And your using extremely terrible dimensional scaling. (8) Transcending time and space does not qualify for outerversal. For something to be outerversal, it must be only ontologically superior to the previous realms as there superiority cannot be expressed through normal mathematically notations. In other words, you would mainly need to be above any mathematically constructs and dimensionality to scale to this. (9) This again an extremely interperitive statement. The statement that afterlife has no time could simply be refered in a more figurative sense then literal, as in the afterlife, time doesn't matter. Since SSJ 3 drained too much Ki, which is the life form of a every living being, when he dies, he no longer has to stress about needing to control his life force as he is already dead. (10) Again, no one aging in the afterlife is literally as simple as "It's the place u go after death, so since you can't die, you can't also age." This doesn't support your argument in any way. (11) Kai's not factoring in time literally supports my view point that this absence of time is more so figurative and not literal. Not to mention he refers to forgetting to factor int he time it takes to go back on the serpent road, which is in the afterlife. If it actually had no time, I don't know why he'd even consider factoring in the time to get back to the snake path. Also, it contradicted by the realm having gravity which requires space-time and by the fact that in reference to the earth, time does pass in the afterlife. In that case, it does have time, just that in most cases it doesn't matter as people in the afterlife usually don't need to worry about time. (12) Again, afterlife having gravity and Goku being able to train their contradict it not having space OR time. And it wouldn't automatically scale to outerversal, as a temporal dimension can be lower then a higher spatial dimensions in some cosmological theories. (13) That's retarded reasoning. If it was above dimensions and was referring to actual spatial-temporal dimensions, the usage of the word EXACT would not occur. This completely contradicts your point. (14) The corporeal realm scan is a mistranslation and the original scan does not make mention of corporeality even with this, corporeality does not scale anywhere. (15) Both physical plane and spiritual plane don't have to inherently imply that the realms or planes are inherently physical or spiritual. It's interpretation depends on the context of the series. It again, doesn't scale anywhere and concepts like dimensions wouldn't be applicable to a spiritual realm. (16) Transcending dimensions doesn't even scale anywhere without context bruh. Often times in both religion and fiction, dimensions are also used in context of spirituality in a more religious and moral sense. You would again need to prove that this is referring to actual spatial-temporal dimensions and not just dimensions in another context. All of what you said are either not true, contradictory, lack context and don't follow normal power scaling definitions. In the end DB at best scales to 5D high-ball and Goku is mid-ball Low-multi anything higher is wank.
the living world itself is an infinite space of light and darkness, as stated in daizenshuu 4 page 18, the observable part of the living world is infinitely expansive, depends on the translation (9) this statement is not an interpretive statement The afterlife has no time as stated by the official guides and Goku himself Also, Goku's statement was mistranslated into English because that translation doesn't come out of the original kanji but "it's that Super Saiyan 3 thing from before, it's a technique you should only use in the afterlife" and the continuation is "in this world where time exists, consumes too much energy and you got completely exhausted all’ at once" (the English translation of the statement made by Goku in both the anime and manga where he says that time doesnt mean much in the after life is wrong) King Kai has always used Earth time to quantify how much time he spends on Earth (not to quantify the time he spends in the afterlife since it doesn't exist) to give Goku an idea and only because King Kai uses Earth time to give Goku an input does not mean time is present in the afterlife plus I recommend you to watch the ATARI HMB video "how strong is Goku once and for all" where he explains DB's cosmology in more detail than this video and with concrete evidence and he uses Power scale definition and dont try do debunk what i wrote cause in the next few days I will not have the time to debunk your debunk also 5D for dragon ball is a massive low ball cause of you know how to scale and if you have the right evidence on the cosmology you can get higher than 5D tf you mean "if we use Toriyamas diagram" ? no where Is stated that heaven Is wider than the universe Its stated in the anime and daizenshuu that heaven Is the same size of the living world (infinite), hell its stated to be the same size of Heaven so infinite
@gabrielp9665 @gabrielp9665 (1) I have watched the video of Atari even prior to this comment. And I can tell you that it isn't completely credible. For 1, he uses DB GT as a means to scale the main continuity even though it isn't canon to the main continuity. For 2, the scans he uses are extremely unreliable (some) with him using the RPG otherworld scan which has multiple contradictory evidence. For 3, His dimensional scaling is completely inaccurate. For a character to be dimensionally higher then something, he need to be uncountably infinite times greater then the prior. (2) Daizenshuu 4, page 18 does not say anything of the sorts. I don't know where you got that. (3) The endlessly expansive IS the translation. There's nothing implying that it "depends on translations." (4) The afterlife doesn't have time cause Goku said so? For 1, Goku literally trains there. If it completely lacks time, then he shouldn't even be able to train. -[2] Goku is seen teleporting directly to the King Kai's planet to get to Namek. If it completely lacks time or anything similar, he couldn't have done that. [3] If the afterlife ACTUALLY didn't have time, it would NOT be observing the timeflow of Earth linearly. It would observe all of Earth's history all at once. This, combined with the fact that it's confirmed to have Gravity completely contradicts the notion it has no time. [4] You don't explain how the statement Goku says is literal and not just metaphorical or figurative. The assumption can also be made that time in this context is being refered to as life. Just as how when you're alive, time flows for you as you are a mortal, when you die and go to a realm without it, time in a sense, does not flow for you. This interpretation makes A LOT more sense then just 'it has no time.' This again also makes more sense as Ki is the life force of a Human. So when someone dies, he has no reason to worry about this life force diminishing or time passing as he is ALREADY DEAD. (3) King Kai using Earth time to quantify how much time he spends of earth is idiotic. For (1), he literally says he forgot to take into account the time it would take for him to reach Serpents road, which doesn't make sense if the afterlife LITERALLY had no time. For (2), IF HE IS USING EARTH TIME TO GIVE INPUT, that contradicts the whole "It has no time" argument, as in a realm with no time, you would observe another realm as completely stagnant or would view all of Earth's history all at once (4) 5D is not a low-ball and it's moronic scalers like Drip Sauce who got ppl to think it is and that outerversal is a Mid-ball. Regardless of what you say, AT BEST, Goku is 5D. Not only is there NO proper showings of higher dimensions in a spatial or temporal sense, there is also no showings of realms that are Uncountably infinite time Greater then the lower dimensions so even 5D is inaccurate. (5) Yes it is stated. Watch the video he literally shows it. Also, if you're saying that heaven is stated because it's as large as hell then that's moronic. A simple Diagram of Akira Toriyama's regarding his OWN cosmology completely contradicts this where HEAVEN isn't even 1/10 th of the size of Hell visually and your saying this is accurate?? No amount of "ThiS DiaGRam Is NoT UpTo ScALE" is gonna make this better. (6) Also, A LOT of things can get retconned in the life of a series. Especially when you consider the fact that Toriyama had no real plans for DBS where Goku's most prominent feats are. So just because it's stated in an idiotic Guidebook doesn't mean that everything in the Guide Book will always be valid and accurate. Bulma both in the Anime and Manga states that they are in the edge of an the Universe and this Visual is even shown in the anime. Now you're gonna tell me that you're gonna believe an ancient fucking guidebook over recent statements? That's dumb. This is also taking you're word that the Universe was even infinite in the 1st place. Not to mention how even in Daima's 1st episode, where Buu is wished to become good, but in DBZ Buu's development occurs with assistance from others AND himself. (7) Maybe if people read the tiering system's they're using they'd know that Goku nor the DB cosmology gets above 5D For context- 'Universe+'- A being that is uncountably infinite times greater the Universe level or is capable of significantly affecting, destroying or creating the space-time of any finite universe falls under this category. 'Low-Complex Multiversal'- The being that is uncountably infinite times greater then the tier Low 2-C. (universe lvl plus) Or is capable of affecting, creating or destroying any uncountably infinite number of 4D universe (One Punch Man's MWI) falls under this tier 'Complex-Multiversal'- A character that is capable of destroying, creating or significantly affecting 2-5 uncountably infinite levels of above low 2-C structures or is equally as uncountably infinite times greater then the said. 'High-Complex Multiversal'- Characters capable of destroying, significantly impacting or creating a structure 6-7 uncountably infinite layers of 2-C structures or is greater by an equivalent ' High-Hyperversal': Characters that are 8 to any finite times greater then low 2-C. 'Hyperversal': Characters capable of affecting or destroying an infinite hierarchy of dimensions. Now with your brain I want you to tell me how the fuck Goku even gets close to Complex or even Hyperversal levels of power.
@@billogdaeggog9071 (1) so you decided to ignore everything in his video ok got It (2) page 18 daizenshuu 4 says that i have that page here next to me (3) he doesnt use gt for the main continuity watch again carefully (4) It depend on the translation on a site i got "expansive" on another i got "expanding" (5) i already explained to you how the afterlife doesnt have time but ok and how king Kai using earth time to give Goku an input on how much time Is passing on EARTH doesnt equal afterlife having time and i also explained to you the real translation of Goku statement but you decided to ignore that just like my whole comment (Goku literally says that afterlife doesn't have time and in the ITA DUB says the same thing so its not in a metaphorical or figurative ) (6) you seriously use Bulma as a source fro the universe? you know that they live in the observable universe right( Which Is the infinitely expanding part) ? so that doesnt debunk nothing (7) its embarassing how you decided to go with your headcanon but ok you use the same argument people use on tiktok embarassing (8) Just say that you cant read (9) you can get db above 5D if you can actually scale (10) you still need to explain to me the part of toriyama diagram (that just how he view U7)cause It contradicts nothing but ok (11) the Scan he uses are reliable asf since they came from the actual sources for db and the RPG otherworld Scan doesnt have multiple contradictory evidence Mike Pondsmith literally explained in details whats already present in the diazenshuu since he actually got the chance to use that for making the RPG Guide (12) if you say that that Atari hmb cant scale, hes a wanker, he doesnt use reliable source the debunk him debunk him in his video where he scales Goku and explains the cosmology
@@billogdaeggog9071 sei patetico è imbarazzante il fatto che usi debunk di tiktok che sono stati sfatati molteplici volte e usi il tuo headCanon ed è imbarazzante il fatto che la gente ti dia prove riguardo ad un topic spiegandotele pure ma decidi di utilizzare il tuo headCanon e dici che non sono utilizzabili e non ci si può fidare senza dare un minimo di prova in più non sono guidebooks idioti ma sono le guide ufficiali al mondo di db approvate sia dall'autore che da Shueisha
@@billogdaeggog9071 è imbarazzante il fatto che la gente provi il contrario di quello che dici con prove fattuali spiegandole pure e tu decidi di utilizzare il tuo headCanon e smettila di utilizzare argomenti di tiktok che sono già stati sfatati molteplici volte per cercare di smentire db Sei il tipico haters che non ha argomenti proprio per smentire db e che usa quelli degli altri (che sono già stati sfatati ) e sai cos'è più imbarazzante di questo è di come tu non abbia ancora capito come è strutturato db ma tranquillo quando smetterai di utilizzare la mente da db haters di tiktok forse potrai capire db e giusto per ditelo ne Bulma (in più è stata smentita da Jaco) ne DBS contraddicono le informazione del daizenshuu Non importa niente se sono guidebooks vecchi o roba del genere non toglie la loro credibilità in quanto il daizenshuu è la guida ufficiale la mondo di db (le informazioni al loro interno sono basate sulle informazioni date nell'anime e manga) e ti prego impara a leggere
just because he didn't destroyed a universe doesn't mean he can't? Buuhan just by screaming would literally crush the whole universe into alternative dimensions and Goku in battle of god can fold that buu no diff, and why would he want to destroy a universe when he literally joined the tournament to save his universe from erasing the only time Goku almost destroyed a universe is from the bog saga just by clashing fist with Beerus and the shockwaves are the ones that could potentially destroy the universe not even their actual attack, and the universe is outerversal according to this video making goku outer in the beginning of super
@@khalilanime923 I don't watch death battle lol, and I don't need to watch that bs to know that Superman folds goku's ass, and I definitely don't need the approval from the fandom known for the lack reading comprehension
I added both Low ball and correct scaling
Low Ball - above 10 D
accurate - Layers Outer
There is also a misconception that otherworld is not Outer because it has a past , present and future .
Debunk here ---> th-cam.com/video/NncQqtvKfvY/w-d-xo.html
@@khalilanime923 kaioshin realm contains Universal sized planets.
What tiering system do u use?
@@AjayiDaniel-xu9tj wdym?
@@khalilanime923I just wanna ask one thing what is 5D
With goku was able to blow up the entire universe7 when he was weaker than his current base form , base goku is outerversal to few layers into outer , and high outer at full power. W vid
W
Facts this is why Dragon Ball is the strongest anime it really is outerversal thank you for making this video
DB is strong but not as strong as Gilgamesh, Featherine or Akuto Sai.
@@alastor1419 shut up lol akuto sai is only around universal Gilgamesh is complex multiversel and featherine is only human since she's just a fictional character in a show drawn by another fictional character while Dragon Ball is high outerversal level to boundless
@@aafresh-yt4363 false. Akuto Sai can reach High Outversal.
or maybe ur riight
@@alastor1419 even the creator said that Sai is not on that level
@@alastor1419 sai was debunked
That explains why my clock is 0
As a Dragon ball scaler, I honestly really do appreciate this scale, I knew some things about the cosmology and I thought I knew a lot until I saw this video. Thank you!🎉👍🏾😁
The only thing I would say is the Dragon Ball verse would be boundless if not then high outerversal level
How is it Boundless?
@@khalilanime923 well because of Zeno palace since it transcends everything that is outerversal level
@@aafresh-yt4363 That would be high outer, reaching high outer level is not as simole as just being superior to an outerversal construct, you need to be like "outerversal × outerversal" or "outerversal²" to be high outer. Boundless is way beyond that, not just an "outerversal³" or "high outerversal²", Boundless surpass the extension of all the hierarchies, we can take is as the extraversal lvl of CSaP ("if we take outerversal as 1, and high outerversal as 2, extraversal would be infinity") a realms in DB that would be Boundless is Toriyama's creator realm, where he creates the whole story and verse (and is obvious why is the highest peak of the verse), and everyone who scales to Toriyama's level can be scaled to boundless, some of those characters being: Dr. Slump ones; current Goku (because SSB Goku [pre ToP I think] was able to put up a fight against her); all the hakaishins because of being on a similar rank of Beerus, who shown that he was vastly superior to Arale, and he was able to erase a being that even Toriyama couldn't erase (yeah, Beerus > DB's whole creator); all the angels; Daishinkan/Grand Priest; zeno; Zalama and Super Shenron; etc
the cosmology itself is boundless including the charisma world or SDBH/XV2
In power scaling there are two ways to determine how higher dimensional construct works it can have multiple coordinates of different axis beyond something that only has a limited amount of vector spaces for example a mathematical model can be represented as a space that can exist in 3 different axis of coordinates and 4 dimensional spacetime is a mathematical model beyond the 3 dimensions of space because it has a extra temporal dimensions that has it own axis in different points in time on a 3 dimensional space something else can be equivalent to higher dimensions for example there can be a infinite amount of 2D square stack on top of each other but it won’t be enough to fill up a 3D cube because it has a 3 axis of space beyond any 2D model there can be a higher level of infinity like a uncountably infinite set amount of 2D square can fill up the entire 3D space of the cube because it also includes all of the real numbers negative or positive and even the decimal points.
Infinite zamasu is 11D~12D
* 2 layers into outerversal
The scales your doing in this video is a heavy down play you you could scale the living realm to high outer to even layers into extraversel
how ?
I like to know how it get to extraversal
@@Crashboy757 so the living universe contents super space and sokuroku space threre is multiple and this three complete transcend to eachother and otherwrold is wrold that views the mortal wrold as its a lower realm meaning threre god and nothing relation i can't send the scans for it in TH-cam it can even go higher
@@Crashboy757 i didn't even know there was a tier called extraversal
@@Crashboy757no you don't
Goku Scale (Lowball)
Dimensionality: 9D
Attack Potency: 9D (Complex Multiversal)
Speed: Immeasurable
Goku Scale (Midball)
Dimensionality: 9D
Attack Potency: Layers into Outerversal
Speed: Irrelevant
No . That's highball
Dimentions would crush an infikite universe , infinite dimentions and super buu can desrroy it , wouldn't this mean that its Infinite dimentional or high hyperversal ?
Not really because we don’t know if there are spatial or temporal
@@Voidson1 ok thanks for answering me
No but this easily make Buu low multiversal at maximum. which is 4th dimensional. Just by screaming buuhan was stated to collapse dimensions on each other which would have crushed the entire living universe which is a truly infinite 3 dimensional space time continuum making it a low 4D feat maximum. Anything under this would be lowballing him for no reason. No reason at all.💯 Goku and Beerus fight in battle of gods would easily be High hyperveral to outerversal minimum. Since they was stated to wipe out the entire Macrocosm in seconds just from shockwaves. If they could wipe out the living universe which is low 4D due to it having an infinite 3 dimensional space time continuum, and the afterlife which is stated to be infinitely 4D making it low 5D minimum. And grand Kai realm sits even higher possibly making the dragonball cosmology 6D. that means Goku was already 5D by battle of gods. He folds Superman no question. I just had to say it 😂
i mean those dimensions have infinite size
by dimension i didnt mean dimensional construct , i meant a realm
@@khalilanime923 thx ok
Yo Guys Imagine if the Marvel Universe and the Dragon Universe were in the Same Universe!!! And Homelander gets Teleported to there! Homelander would Truly be a Big Fish in an Infinite Ocean! At least he’ll Never be the Strongest being Alive like ever!!!! What do you guys Say?
At least you have used logic and data to sustain your thesis of dragon ball being outer, unlike some people who want to make reality based on their convenience..
However, I kinda don't understand.
The definition of outerversal you just gave is based off which tiering system? Because, as far as I know, to be high hyperversal, there must be an infinite dimensional hierarchy inside the verse, which is not the case with dragon ball, as you said, the verse caps at 10d, which would be high complex multiversal total cosmology.
and to reach outerversal, you must have a cosmology which reachs high 1b, which means, that there must be an infinite dimensional hierarchy, and that infinite dimensional hierarchy must be transcended by another construct or character that has qualitative characteristics of power and transcandence that reaches a point where the said character or construct becomes ultimately superior and unreachable even to that infinite dimensional hierarchy, dwarfing it into oblivion
the only thing that being above the space and time of the afterlife proves, is that goku's dimensional power transcended the afterlife, making him the same dimensionality or 1d higher, this does NOT put ANYONE in outer.
To be outer, Goku should've done the exact same thing in a construct which has an nfinite dimensional hierarchy, which he did not
You cannot jump tiers like thar, in every tiering system possible, doing such a thing is just seen as an hyperbole or fallacy, that falls apart without further context and evidence
When scaling a verse, you must gradually go up, from the bottom to the top, not going from a 5d construct to something that utterly transcends infinite d... time and space are things that make space-time up, both time and space are transcended when you add one dimension to it, Goku transcending the space and time of afterlife which is 5d at best, makes him equal or 1 higher d, as simple as that.
I agree thar db is downplayed, but this is just insane.
If you wish to debate me or prove me wrong, feel free to do so, but if any child come up to me only to be arrogant and disrespectful, you'll be ignored, because, if you have good arguements, there is no way to be disrespectful. Nothing I just said in this comment was disrespectful at all.
listen
if a realm or character is above space and time , it wouldn't be outerversal
because the character or realm is still bounded by 4D space and time
and so on
this continues till ∞D
a 3D object exist because of 3 dimensional space and time , and so on
which means every thing exist because of space and time even if it is ∞D construct (high hyper)
to surpass high hyperversal you should exist literally in the absence of time and space
the first part of video which scales to 10D is just a lowball
actual scaling is at the end
otherworld has no time and space
yet there is an entire system running in there
if a thing exist without any time and space this would be outer because things are suppose to exist within a dimensional limit/construct
@@khalilanime923 Having an own systematic existence is not outer either
You said that transcending time and space of a 4d realm isn't outer because it's still bounded by 4d and at the end you said that the other world is outer for transcending time and space, either you contradicted yourself or I didn't understand
And, I cannot agree, a high 1b space is limited by a completely different amount of space than a 4D construct, each dimension added to the hierarchy transcends the other and adds another infinity in space, to make it a coordinated space, that means, each dimension transcends the space and time of the other, if each transcendence of space and time qualified someone for outer, then a high 1b space would be layers into boundless
@@bibibubukibu i said otherworld transcends all kinds of time and space
because it exist without time and space which is beyond physical understanding
@@khalilanime923 sorry, tiering system rules, i know it's annoying but it's the rules, stamentes like that simply fall apart without further context and/or evidence, this statement of transcendence of space-time adds 1 dimension.
there is no such thing as saying "it transcends any form of space and time", this is like saying it transcends anything, because that is what make any existence up, regardless of the size, this is like that good ol' fallacy of "my verse is beyond fiction", this doesn't exist.
there is no way the tiering system and the powerscaling rules will make exception for a single verse because the fans want it to, each dimension added to the hierarchy transcends the space-time of the lower dimension infinitely, that statement adds 1 dimension to the otherworld, nothing more than that.
yeah, maybe we won't agree with each other at all.
and that's fine, let's take it like grown ups, have a nice day
If we include Dragon ball heroes then it is way higher. multiple realms viewing the others as fiction
No we Don't want it to be outerversal it's not outerversal 😭😭😭😭😭
Db haters your words don't matter
(1) So you're assuming that the DB Universe is infinite because of the 1st and 2nd scan?
- The 1st literally doesn't say shit about there being infinite space. Again, I don't know how on Earth you argue that the universe being described as having Endless expansive space is the same thing as saying it's infinite, instead of a figurative speech or just a hyper bole. You can even use everything in this exact scan as a way to describe our Universe and it wouldn't even contradict anything. Atleast the non supernatural part. Other then that the description of endless expansive space, innumerable nebulae can literally be used in case of our own Universe and it wouldn't even be wrong.
- Again, infinitely, endless, innumerable are often used figuratively, metaphorically or hyperbolically l. You would need more proof to confirm that this isn't being used hyperbolically.
(2) Kai's realm being larger then an infinite realm (assuming it is infinite) wouldn't scale to 5D. For something to be considered 5D, it needs to either be uncountably infinite times greater then the 4th Dimensions or must host an uncountably infinite number of 4D standard universe Models at the bare minimum to be scaled to 5D. A perfect example of this is Everett's MWI which is used by the OPM cosmology. A 4D universe that is larger then an infinite universe would not automatically mean it's uncountably infinite in size and to do so it would require further context. An MWI multiverse requires a 5D as it helps explain the non-interactions between other separate universes. They can only be identified separately and allow each Universe in these uncountably infinite amount to be both 4D and seperate. In a 4D, uncountably infinite universe, such a distinction isn't required, since there are only uncountably infinite points in the space-time of the Universe and since no seperate or discrete entities are needed to be taken account for, they can be explained using only our general 4D understanding of the universe.
(3) Data books saying that the dimensions of Enma's Realm doesn't mean that the word dimensions is referring to actual spatial dimensions. Dimension itself means-
(1) A measurable extent of a articular kind
(2)An aspect or feature of a situation.
(3) Form or shape to particular measurements.
Both (2) and (3) can be used definitively without suggesting it to be actual spatial-temporal dimensions.This can simply be referring to size, an aspect of it or more. Especially since the 1st 2 scan's never 100% clearly confirmed that the Universe is infinite with infinite galaxies. Without context this can't be used for accurate scaling.
(4) I don't know what the fuck the last few scans even showed that would even put it at 6D. If you're trying to argue that the afterlife containing a 5D realm makes it 6D, then that's quite stupid. A larger 4D structure can contain a smaller 4D structure in the same way. For example, I our own Universe let's say beyond the observable universe, a structure encapsulates the observable universe, this doesn't mean that the structure encapsulating this 4D universe is 5D as without context it could very well just be a larger 4D construct containing a smaller one. This doesn't prove the higher dimensionality of said realm completely. At best it would scale to 5D and not 6D.
(5) There isn't any confirmation the Kaioshin realm being larger then the afterlife so this wouldn't scale anywhere.
(6) The living realm is stated to be infinite. However, if we use Toriyama l's own diagrams, the notion that heaven is wider then the universe is contradicted and only the hell and enma realm could be argued to equate an infinite universe completely (assuming it is infinite)
(7) Just because Zeno's realm is outside the universes doesn't mean it's larger then the lower realms. And your using extremely terrible dimensional scaling.
(8) Transcending time and space does not qualify for outerversal. For something to be outerversal, it must be only ontologically superior to the previous realms as there superiority cannot be expressed through normal mathematically notations. In other words, you would mainly need to be above any mathematically constructs and dimensionality to scale to this.
(9) This again an extremely interperitive statement. The statement that afterlife has no time could simply be refered in a more figurative sense then literal, as in the afterlife, time doesn't matter. Since SSJ 3 drained too much Ki, which is the life form of a every living being, when he dies, he no longer has to stress about needing to control his life force as he is already dead.
(10) Again, no one aging in the afterlife is literally as simple as "It's the place u go after death, so since you can't die, you can't also age." This doesn't support your argument in any way.
(11) Kai's not factoring in time literally supports my view point that this absence of time is more so figurative and not literal. Not to mention he refers to forgetting to factor int he time it takes to go back on the serpent road, which is in the afterlife. If it actually had no time, I don't know why he'd even consider factoring in the time to get back to the snake path. Also, it contradicted by the realm having gravity which requires space-time and by the fact that in reference to the earth, time does pass in the afterlife. In that case, it does have time, just that in most cases it doesn't matter as people in the afterlife usually don't need to worry about time.
(12) Again, afterlife having gravity and Goku being able to train their contradict it not having space OR time. And it wouldn't automatically scale to outerversal, as a temporal dimension can be lower then a higher spatial dimensions in some cosmological theories.
(13) That's retarded reasoning. If it was above dimensions and was referring to actual spatial-temporal dimensions, the usage of the word EXACT would not occur. This completely contradicts your point.
(14) The corporeal realm scan is a mistranslation and the original scan does not make mention of corporeality even with this, corporeality does not scale anywhere.
(15) Both physical plane and spiritual plane don't have to inherently imply that the realms or planes are inherently physical or spiritual. It's interpretation depends on the context of the series. It again, doesn't scale anywhere and concepts like dimensions wouldn't be applicable to a spiritual realm.
(16) Transcending dimensions doesn't even scale anywhere without context bruh. Often times in both religion and fiction, dimensions are also used in context of spirituality in a more religious and moral sense. You would again need to prove that this is referring to actual spatial-temporal dimensions and not just dimensions in another context.
All of what you said are either not true, contradictory, lack context and don't follow normal power scaling definitions. In the end DB at best scales to 5D high-ball and Goku is mid-ball Low-multi anything higher is wank.
the living world itself is an infinite space of light and darkness, as stated in daizenshuu 4 page 18, the observable part of the living world is infinitely expansive, depends on the translation
(9) this statement is not an interpretive statement
The afterlife has no time as stated by the official guides and Goku himself
Also, Goku's statement was mistranslated into English because that translation doesn't come out of the original kanji but "it's that Super Saiyan 3 thing from before, it's a technique you should only use in the afterlife" and the continuation is "in this world where time exists, consumes too much energy and you got completely exhausted all’ at once" (the English translation of the statement made by Goku in both the anime and manga where he says that time doesnt mean much in the after life is wrong)
King Kai has always used Earth time to quantify how much time he spends on Earth (not to quantify the time he spends in the afterlife since it doesn't exist) to give Goku an idea and only because King Kai uses Earth time to give Goku an input does not mean time is present in the afterlife
plus I recommend you to watch the ATARI HMB video "how strong is Goku once and for all" where he explains DB's cosmology in more detail than this video and with concrete evidence and he uses Power scale definition and dont try do debunk what i wrote cause in the next few days I will not have the time to debunk your debunk
also 5D for dragon ball is a massive low ball cause of you know how to scale and if you have the right evidence on the cosmology you can get higher than 5D
tf you mean "if we use Toriyamas diagram" ? no where Is stated that heaven Is wider than the universe
Its stated in the anime and daizenshuu that heaven Is the same size of the living world (infinite), hell its stated to be the same size of Heaven so infinite
@gabrielp9665 @gabrielp9665
(1) I have watched the video of Atari even prior to this comment. And I can tell you that it isn't completely credible.
For 1, he uses DB GT as a means to scale the main continuity even though it isn't canon to the main continuity.
For 2, the scans he uses are extremely unreliable (some) with him using the RPG otherworld scan which has multiple contradictory evidence.
For 3, His dimensional scaling is completely inaccurate. For a character to be dimensionally higher then something, he need to be uncountably infinite times greater then the prior.
(2) Daizenshuu 4, page 18 does not say anything of the sorts. I don't know where you got that.
(3) The endlessly expansive IS the translation. There's nothing implying that it "depends on translations."
(4) The afterlife doesn't have time cause Goku said so? For 1, Goku literally trains there. If it completely lacks time, then he shouldn't even be able to train.
-[2] Goku is seen teleporting directly to the King Kai's planet to get to Namek. If it completely lacks time or anything similar, he couldn't have done that.
[3] If the afterlife ACTUALLY didn't have time, it would NOT be observing the timeflow of Earth linearly. It would observe all of Earth's history all at once. This, combined with the fact that it's confirmed to have Gravity completely contradicts the notion it has no time.
[4] You don't explain how the statement Goku says is literal and not just metaphorical or figurative. The assumption can also be made that time in this context is being refered to as life. Just as how when you're alive, time flows for you as you are a mortal, when you die and go to a realm without it, time in a sense, does not flow for you. This interpretation makes A LOT more sense then just 'it has no time.' This again also makes more sense as Ki is the life force of a Human. So when someone dies, he has no reason to worry about this life force diminishing or time passing as he is ALREADY DEAD.
(3) King Kai using Earth time to quantify how much time he spends of earth is idiotic. For (1), he literally says he forgot to take into account the time it would take for him to reach Serpents road, which doesn't make sense if the afterlife LITERALLY had no time. For (2), IF HE IS USING EARTH TIME TO GIVE INPUT, that contradicts the whole "It has no time" argument, as in a realm with no time, you would observe another realm as completely stagnant or would view all of Earth's history all at once
(4) 5D is not a low-ball and it's moronic scalers like Drip Sauce who got ppl to think it is and that outerversal is a Mid-ball. Regardless of what you say, AT BEST, Goku is 5D. Not only is there NO proper showings of higher dimensions in a spatial or temporal sense, there is also no showings of realms that are Uncountably infinite time Greater then the lower dimensions so even 5D is inaccurate.
(5) Yes it is stated. Watch the video he literally shows it. Also, if you're saying that heaven is stated because it's as large as hell then that's moronic. A simple Diagram of Akira Toriyama's regarding his OWN cosmology completely contradicts this where HEAVEN isn't even 1/10 th of the size of Hell visually and your saying this is accurate?? No amount of "ThiS DiaGRam Is NoT UpTo ScALE" is gonna make this better.
(6) Also, A LOT of things can get retconned in the life of a series. Especially when you consider the fact that Toriyama had no real plans for DBS where Goku's most prominent feats are. So just because it's stated in an idiotic Guidebook doesn't mean that everything in the Guide Book will always be valid and accurate. Bulma both in the Anime and Manga states that they are in the edge of an the Universe and this Visual is even shown in the anime. Now you're gonna tell me that you're gonna believe an ancient fucking guidebook over recent statements? That's dumb. This is also taking you're word that the Universe was even infinite in the 1st place. Not to mention how even in Daima's 1st episode, where Buu is wished to become good, but in DBZ Buu's development occurs with assistance from others AND himself.
(7) Maybe if people read the tiering system's they're using they'd know that Goku nor the DB cosmology gets above 5D
For context-
'Universe+'- A being that is uncountably infinite times greater the Universe level or is capable of significantly affecting, destroying or creating the space-time of any finite universe falls under this category.
'Low-Complex Multiversal'- The being that is uncountably infinite times greater then the tier Low 2-C. (universe lvl plus) Or is capable of affecting, creating or destroying any uncountably infinite number of 4D universe (One Punch Man's MWI) falls under this tier
'Complex-Multiversal'- A character that is capable of destroying, creating or significantly affecting 2-5 uncountably infinite levels of above low 2-C structures or is equally as uncountably infinite times greater then the said.
'High-Complex Multiversal'- Characters capable of destroying, significantly impacting or creating a structure 6-7 uncountably infinite layers of 2-C structures or is greater by an equivalent
'
High-Hyperversal': Characters that are 8 to any finite times greater then low 2-C.
'Hyperversal': Characters capable of affecting or destroying an infinite hierarchy of dimensions.
Now with your brain I want you to tell me how the fuck Goku even gets close to Complex or even Hyperversal levels of power.
@@billogdaeggog9071
(1) so you decided to ignore everything in his video ok got It
(2) page 18 daizenshuu 4 says that i have that page here next to me
(3) he doesnt use gt for the main continuity watch again carefully
(4) It depend on the translation on a site i got "expansive" on another i got "expanding"
(5) i already explained to you how the afterlife doesnt have time but ok and how king Kai using earth time to give Goku an input on how much time Is passing on EARTH doesnt equal afterlife having time and i also explained to you the real translation of Goku statement but you decided to ignore that just like my whole comment (Goku literally says that afterlife doesn't have time and in the ITA DUB says the same thing so its not in a metaphorical or figurative )
(6) you seriously use Bulma as a source fro the universe? you know that they live in the observable universe right( Which Is the infinitely expanding part) ? so that doesnt debunk nothing
(7) its embarassing how you decided to go with your headcanon but ok
you use the same argument people use on tiktok embarassing
(8) Just say that you cant read
(9) you can get db above 5D if you can actually scale
(10) you still need to explain to me the part of toriyama diagram (that just how he view U7)cause It contradicts nothing but ok
(11) the Scan he uses are reliable asf since they came from the actual sources for db and the RPG otherworld Scan doesnt have multiple contradictory evidence
Mike Pondsmith literally explained in details whats already present in the diazenshuu since he actually got the chance to use that for making the RPG
Guide
(12) if you say that that Atari hmb cant scale, hes a wanker, he doesnt use reliable source the debunk him
debunk him in his video where he scales Goku and explains the cosmology
@@billogdaeggog9071 sei patetico
è imbarazzante il fatto che usi debunk di tiktok che sono stati sfatati molteplici volte e usi il tuo headCanon
ed è imbarazzante il fatto che la gente ti dia prove riguardo ad un topic spiegandotele pure ma decidi di utilizzare il tuo headCanon e dici che non sono utilizzabili e non ci si può fidare senza dare un minimo di prova
in più non sono guidebooks idioti ma sono le guide ufficiali al mondo di db approvate sia dall'autore che da Shueisha
@@billogdaeggog9071 è imbarazzante il fatto che la gente provi il contrario di quello che dici con prove fattuali spiegandole pure e tu decidi di utilizzare il tuo headCanon
e smettila di utilizzare argomenti di tiktok che sono già stati sfatati molteplici volte per cercare di smentire db
Sei il tipico haters che non ha argomenti proprio per smentire db e che usa quelli degli altri (che sono già stati sfatati )
e sai cos'è più imbarazzante di questo è di come tu non abbia ancora capito come è strutturato db ma tranquillo quando smetterai di utilizzare la mente da db haters di tiktok forse potrai capire db
e giusto per ditelo ne Bulma (in più è stata smentita da Jaco) ne DBS contraddicono le informazione del daizenshuu
Non importa niente se sono guidebooks vecchi o roba del genere non toglie la loro credibilità
in quanto il daizenshuu è la guida ufficiale la mondo di db (le informazioni al loro interno sono basate sulle informazioni date nell'anime e manga)
e ti prego impara a leggere
Saibamen!!
outer ? can't even destroy a single uni by themselves statement fodders ( zeno can ) accurate cosmo low multiversal with statement fodders
just because he didn't destroyed a universe doesn't mean he can't? Buuhan just by screaming would literally crush the whole universe into alternative dimensions and Goku in battle of god can fold that buu no diff, and why would he want to destroy a universe when he literally joined the tournament to save his universe from erasing the only time Goku almost destroyed a universe is from the bog saga just by clashing fist with Beerus and the shockwaves are the ones that could potentially destroy the universe not even their actual attack, and the universe is outerversal according to this video making goku outer in the beginning of super
@@RandomFactsStories-d2t non cannon buuhan seires talk about dbs super only
@@legeet2397😅😅😅 sorry you means DBZ is non canon
Bro doesn't even know how big the macrocosm is😭
Learn to scale
@@AjayiDaniel-xu9tj low multi cosmology after correct scaling
Hyperversal at best
Or low outerversal
he is outerversal
Awesome I’ve been waiting fir this
You got discord or something? Cause this shit isn’t right at all.
Onto something❌️ On something✅️
Low complex multiversal*😊
massive low ball
@@khalilanime923
Highest you can get it without wanking
This makes nonsense
Yeah , average downscalers argument
Ah nothing much, just another dragonball d rider
and its another downscaler who cant scale and watchs a lot of dearth battle
@@khalilanime923 I don't watch death battle lol, and I don't need to watch that bs to know that Superman folds goku's ass, and I definitely don't need the approval from the fandom known for the lack reading comprehension
@@kannan07hop on to VC debate then
@@Kodeuk don't have time to waste on idiots
@@Kodeuk don't have time to waste on fools