Wow,thank you for this video. I was having issues with my 1998 Road King Classic. Had a melted cam position sensor and I replaced that,and it was still missing a little bit. I did the steps in your TPS video and the bike is running fantastic again. My number was .094 instead of .275. Thanks again and keep it up. We Magnetti Marili guys gotta stick together
I'm old school always ran carburetors last year I picked up my first fuel injected bike ... had no idea how to adjust it and the manual said it HAD to be done by the dealer ... I thought when I read it ... "this is BS" ... you confirmed my hypothesis ... thanks for the tips ... I have subscribed.
Thank you! This is how to adjust this particular brand of fuel injection. I haven't found much on the Delphi systems that replaced this one, but maybe some day I will need to explore them more. This motor came to life with aftermarket fuel injection tuners! I have a newer bike now and it has a Power Commander V on it. Personally, I think it's hard to beat the CV Carbs for simplicity, accuracy and dependability in an all-in-one carb setup!
Can't thank you enough. Harley had my bike for 3 weeks, got it back and it was hitting full throttle and cold idle was around 3500 rpm. After this fix she's back to running like a champ, Thank you very much!!
Mark I would like to add my experience with the whole process. I have studied all aspects of this tune. So with bolt on cam, ported heads along with your video I have backed out screws, unplugged cold idle. The Engine was warm. I was crying at the time because I have made many adjustments for days. I was told adding performance upgrades change everything. Setting the base point of .275 then set WARM IDLE AT .500. I set all to voltage numbers lowest to highest. for my bike, 2000 road king MM EFI, TRUE DUAL, DME .510 CAM.... .820 V cold idle. I feel unplugging the 5 and 15 amp fuses is KEY HERE. Idle is warm and cold is dead nuts where it needs to be. When cold it rises for a moment to 1650 settles in around 1200 and slowly drops into the 1050 range perfectly. just thought I would share. Thanks for your Vid It helped my solve my problems. The Mag Marelli has worked well for 14+ years and needed some help in the last year but its like new again. Mark S.
Got my new throttle position sensor 2day and straight to the bike hoping it would fix my issues. Followed Mark's video exactly, along with a few more tips that Mark gave me,for which I am so grateful, because I just took it out on a shakedown cruise and it's running better than ever. 1998 Road King Classic with 109,000 miles. Thanks Mark,keep up the good work
Wow. Thanks for taking the time to make this video! I bought a '95 cheap because the owner had issues with the check engine light. The tps looked brand new. I checked it using your instructions, and sure enough it was way off! Runs like a champ now!
just letting whoever reads this know, i have a 1998 flhtcui, had engine light come on, had code for throttle position sensor, followed your detailed instructions, adjusted warm idle to 1000rpm from bike tachometer, drove it for awhile, runs great, got rid of 90% of popping when throttling down, only problem I had was idle would go up to 1200rpm a couple of times at stop lights, i'll run for a couple of weeks and redo procedure again too see if that helps. thank you so much for this video
LilOsideSmitty Thanks for the feedback, Smitty. I am wondering why it is idling up at stops like that, but can't think of a reason for it. My only guess, and just that, is that maybe it has to do with the temperature sensor on top of the front cylinder? If it is sending a report to the ECU that the engine has not fully warmed up, could it cause the cold idle to boost it just a bit? If you do recheck anything, I would suggest a lower setting on the cold idle adjustment, maybe back it off half a turn, a whole turn, etc. to see if this idling up at a stop goes away? Let me know what you find out.
I know this is old I can add some info for others. Mine would idle up little once in a while, eventually my throttle cable broke about 1/4 inch from the brass connector up top. I figure it was frayed and not returning to the same position very time. I never had a throttle cable break before. These 98 RG efi, cables were 20 yrs old. Return cable was fine. I replaced the cables with 2006 cables, form and fit looked the same. Now bike is not running right, hesitation during acceleration. That's how I ended up on this page. Hoping to get through this, the TPS seems to be functioning, I am able to set it to .275 and set the idle screws, seems the HD manal also says something about disconnecting the battery for 10 minutes after a TPS adjustment so it forgets the idle positions. Still cant get it running right, dang mystery what happened when I only replaced the cables. It was running fine before this.
UPDATE: I got it tuned the second day and been running great. My problem was my 98 manual had some conflict with the process in the video, and I had watched the video but not read the "show more" information The second day I slowed down and read about the 2000 service bulletin that literally corrected a mistake in the manual and clarified the process immensely. I see now the service bulleting reference was now removed from the "show more" and placed at the top of the comment block. Good deal, now hopefully less folks will miss it like I did. Great video, thanks a bunch. My bike is running like a new bike.
I was doing so many of these that I made a breakout harness to plug between the TPS and it's connector, so I used both the signal wire and ground wire at the sensor instead. I saved myself all the trouble of dicking around with the cold idle screw and ISCM by just removing the arm instead. Before touching the hot idle screw, I have my meter connected and check the TPS setting first. Write down the initial setting, then back out the hot idle screw several turns until the throttle plates seat in the bore. Now write down the sensor reading again, and subtract that from 275 to get the amount you're moving the sensor. Adjust the sensor. Now add the amount you moved the sensor to the initial reading you took to get your new hot idle screw setting, and turn the hot idle screw back in to that sensor reading. It will be nearly perfect. Now disconnect the battery to wipe the ECM's idle position memory so it will learn the new one, then you can make a final adjustment on the hot idle. I found that -not- wiping the memory, if you try to adjust the hot idle, it can jump back and forth between too low and too high because the ECM is messing with the ignition timing - idle timing is different than off idle timing.
Great video! I was having problems after completing my stage 1 on my 1996 Ultra Classic so I adjusted it according to this and what a difference. I did also adjust the air bleed screws before doing this procedure. (remove epoxy from the 2 screws directly above the runner between the 2 throats of the induction system. Lightly seat them both then back out 1 1/2 turns just like a starting point on most carbs.) I'm at sea level and it idles beautiful and runs strong. Thanks for the simple straight forward video.
Thanks so much for this video. My bike was running fine then all of a sudden started misfiring. I saw your video, retrieved the 1-1 DTC (TPS) and decided to try your fix. Within 40 minutes my 97 Road King was running like a champ!! In fact, the TPS settings must have been off for a while because I don't even remember my bike running this smoothly before. I would suggest though that the adjustment be done with the engine at operating temperature and to make sure the cold start plunger tip is completely off. Thanks again.
Kenneth Smillie, the engine temperature does not matter for this procedure. With the bike in the OFF position, unplug the cold idle motor connector. It will stay in this "neutral" position throughout the process, even after you turn ON the power.
I wasn't able to adjust the sensor on my 2001 ultra classic the set screws had apoxy on the ends but by having it apart I noticed my cold idle motor plug was a little loose. After I made sure that was tight I turned in both screws the same as I loosened them ran the bike for a bit adjusted the warm idle to where I wanted it and just like that my problems were solved. I would have had no idea where to even start 8f it wasn't for your video. Thank you very much you kept my wallet a little fatter today!!
I watched your video twice before going out to my newly purchased '97 FLHTCUI. Bike only has 8700 miles on it, with a stage 1 air cleaner and cycle shack slip-on mufflers. I wanted to adjust the idle and make sure it was adjusted properly after seeing that my oil pressure had dropped to 0 (at idle) on the gage and a short time later the oil light would come on at idle. (Oil pressure does climb when moving.) So, I hooked up a meter and followed your procedure. Checking my initial settings, my initial voltage is 0.933vdc which is considerably lower than what you are describing (0.275vdc) At this point, I stopped and started surfing the net. I can not find anywhere on the net that references your numbers. This is a 97 flhtcui, 80" evo, stage 1 flash by the dealer. I'm at the point where I think I need to follow the procedures in the manual of adjusting ONLY the cold idle screw, pulling the fuse, etc.
Gary Mckay I opted to (as you suggested) leave the sensor setting alone. I did not remove the epoxy from the screws. I did set the cold idle to 0.650 and it idles cold at 1500-ish. After allowing it to run long enough to be good and warmed up, I adjusted the Warm idle to 950-1000 (on the bike tach). I watched the oil pressure from cold to warm, started high and dropped low enough to make the light come on solid. With MUCH research (and still looking), popular concensus is, "this is normal at idle and hot engine." Pressure does rise to 15-20 or so cruising down the road. Any thoughts and words of wisdom are welcome and appreciated.
Gary Mckay Hello Gary, I found the numbers on a Harley Davidson discussion board which I have now included a link to in the description which starts with "Click here to read full forum posts". I also included links to the service bulletin from Harley Davidson on setting the voltages per 1340 or 1450 motors with the MM system. I have put many miles on mine with these same settings still going strong. I just logged 170 miles of back road and highway riding combined and got 51 mpg. Two up rides were getting an average of 49 mpg. As far as your oil pressure goes, that makes me nervous that it is low enough that the light is coming on. Are you using 20w-50 oil and the correct oil filter? Also, there is an oil screen that filters oil to the tappets (lifters). Here is a link: th-cam.com/video/47ljGG0XMa0/w-d-xo.html. Otherwise, you really should seek professional help with it to be sure you are not in for a surprise down the road. Good luck to you my friend.
Just found this video, that looks like a late 90s Roadking Classic. I have a 98 Roadking Classic with EFI Evo, it runs well at the moment but with the Magneti Marelli EFI system, it is always in the back of my mind that it will, at some point, give me trouble. Not a lot of mechanics in south eastern Australia who know how to work on them, certainly not Harley dealerships. Having watched your video, I think I might check those settings on mine, as it sometimes wont idle back once it warms up! Great information, thank you.
Glad you found it. It is rare to find any tech, dealer or Indy, that knows what makes these tick. This one is a 1997. After the adjustments it ran very well up to the time I traded it. Made trips across state lines two-up, no issues, great gas mileage, plenty of power. I did add an aftermarket EFI tuner to add a pinch more fuel. As long as all sensors are working properly this EFI system should last a long time. It got a reputation of being hard to work on so Harley moved on to the Delphi system. Set it and forget it. It doesn't like to be tinkered with, but once it is setup properly it just runs great.
Thank you so much man👍🏼 keep making good videos like this you totally saved about $600 of dyno tuning. Bike was running like crap I saw your video did the same reset my tp sensor with my tuner and labtop and bingo! Thanks again 😎
Just a quick note to say THANKS for doing this video! Just bought my first HD and it has been a BEAR to crank when hot! My local independent won't even touch a Marrelli'd bike. Followed your instructions step-by step after changing the ETS on my 2000 Ultra and the bike runs and starts better than EVER! Could I ask where you got the info on the sensor output voltages and such? I would like to have the spec'd voltage for all the sensors since this is gonna be my baby for a loooooooong time!
smacdowngrafix Glad to hear it, Smac! I found the settings on a message board website, there are lots of them out there. I do not have any of the voltages or specs on the other sensors yet. I also have 2 videos of installing performance fuel injection controllers to the Marelli system if you want to check those out. Good luck with it!
Following this procedure, I was able to correct a starting issues on a 1998 Electra Glide Classic. I'm not the original owner, and the owner previous to me did not know its history. To start the bike, I needed to crack the throttle open to allow more air to enter the intake. The bike would idle rough until reaching normal operating temperature; like a motor with a carburetor, I would have to work with the throttle to keep the motor from stalling. Following the steps and settings Mark identifies in this video, I was able to reset the throttle position sensor to a reasonable base setting and make further adjustments from there. The starting issue has been resolved. The motor now promptly starts when cold without touching the throttle due to the corrected throttle position setting and the cold idle screw adjustment. The idle speed control actuator takes over until the motor reaches its normal operating temperature followed by the warm idle adjustment. The motor now runs smoother and when idling at about 1050 RPM, has greatly reduced the "Harley shake" at idle. Mark, thank you for posting this video. I'm certain it has save me from spending hundreds at the local HD Dealership to correct this issue.
Thanks for the comments, Dan! I'm glad it worked out for you. If you saved money, that's great! I also made the video for some to show to their Harley shops if they can not do it themselves. Some shops are not familiar with these MM systems, and it has become a lost art to set them up properly. Sounds like you have it purring like it should! Safe riding to you my friend!
I know this video is old but THANK YOU Mark Young. Got my 98 Road King running like she was new again. I was a little concerned but it worked out. Great video again!!
Glad to hear another Harley MM system is running as it should. I really enjoyed that fuel injection system and the ability to tweak it with fuel controllers from Dobeck. I have videos on using them on my channel as well if you're interested, but if it's running good, leave it be, right?! Ride on!
@@contact4mwy7 Hey Mark, my 01 is in the shop. I’m told the ecm might be bad. I need a scanalyzer to know for sure but I’m hearing there’s no way to find parts for the magneti marelli nightmare I am living. I wish I was close to you, somehow I’m betting you could fix this.
Re-did the procedure bike now runs absolutely perfect! I had added a cobra auto-tune and never had total stability in the system till now great tutorial!
Awesome, man! I just visited Laconia Bike Week with mine and it ran great all of the almost 500 miles I put on it. I'm glad these settings have proven themselves for others, and especially your Cobra Auto-tune! Do you know why the procedure didn't work the first time around for you? Just curious, and it may help others. Thanks for the response!
By the way, I averaged 53.6 miles per gallon after 2 of the fill-ups on the trip! (your mileage may vary depending on the size of your engine and other influences. My engine is the 80 cubic inch / 1340 cubic centimeter EVO).
Thank you for a clear and concise explanation of this system! I am a Factory trained tech a little out of practice with this system and needed a little refresher!
Thank you Donatel! That covered the basics of it, but when it comes to the temperature sensor in the head, and the barometric sensor under the right side cover, there is still more to this system to figure out. But using these settings as your foundation, you can build from there! Glad it helped. Good luck helping other people keep their rides on the road! We need more of you!
+Frank ZAVALA If anything, if people at least show this to a mechanic it could take a lot of the guess work and trial and error out of getting it right, I hope. Thanks!
I hooked up the meter and without touching anything it read.650, I turned the throttle up and down and everything was smooth so I think I can rule out the TPS. To answer your questions it was running great on the Dyno twice! He told me “don’t let anyone ever tell you that Rev-tec dfo/ Magnetti Marelli combined isn’t a great set up “ it ran awesome for 100 miles till I filled the tank on the way home, same exact pump I used on the way down it immediately ran like s$-! I was to far to turn back, when I called him he said must be in the tank. Sure enough I sprung a leak. But the shop closer to home that no longer dyno’s bikes fixed the fuel line but removed my dfo. Said they couldn’t get the. Bike started. With the rhinehart tru duels i have always had to get it on a dyno to tune it, but she runs like a bat out of hell! Been everywhere from Boston to Homer Alaska and back home to Michigan 😎
They removed it because they couldn't get the bike started? Was it put back on? The only way I can think of that it would interfere with starting the bike was if one or both fuel injection connectors was not getting a good connection. All the unit is designed to do is add fuel to the factory map ratio.
Thank you I just bought a 2001 ultra and it had a lean skip from 2000 rpm to 2500. TPS was never touched from the factory, Still had epoxy in the screws. It was set wrong from day one. Lean issue is gone bike pulls hard and no pop skip at 2000 rpm’s Thank you again
Hi Mark.. I have a 2001 FLHTCUI. I followed you directions to the letter so I thought. When it came to setting the cold idle to .650. I started the bike and the cold idle was 3000 rpm. I don't know what I am doing wrong.. I watched the video over and over and over lol.
Sounds like something is holding the throttle open more than it should be! Things to go over: Did you turn the bike on and then off before you unhooked the cold idle motor connector? This will put it into it's "neutral position." Are you sure you turned the cold idle screw and not the warm idle screw when you made the setting of 0.650 DC volts? Inspect the throttle butterflies motion when you turn the throttle; are they opening and closing smoothly or does it feel like something is binding? Are the butterflies almost completely closed when you let off the throttle? After all of these checks, I would then back out either the cold idle screw or warm idle screw 1/2 to 1 turn, and then start the bike to see if the idle has come down. Work on one screw at a time and hopefully you may find the one that might be turned in too far. If it's not the idle screws, it's something else causing this issue.
Thanks Mark for replying. The only thing I did not do was cycle the bike on and off before starting. She is still sitting in the garage with the air cleaner off so I can start again. Once the bike warmed up last night I played with the warm idle and got that perfect. I'll start over again this morning. One thing I did notice...on the throttle band.. the arm that goes from the Idle speed contnrol actuator to the band is not tight. There is a bolt that goes through the center with a flap over it to prevent it from loosening but there is play with that band. Should this be there ? Thank you for getting back to me
I think there is some play in mine too. And that nut with the flap over it is very important. Mine fell off on a ride and it would not idle down all the way after that as the mechanism got jammed in there, so make sure it is not going to fall off on its own, but otherwise leave it be. If that nut is tightened too much the throttle sticks in its movement (learned that too). If the warm idle seems to be ok, then try backing out your cold idle screw until it runs around 1100 or 1200 when the bike is cold, and see if it slows to around 1000 when the bike is warmed up.
Ok I have a question. If you have the butterflys closed, what does it matter where the TPS is? What does that specific voltage have to do with the position of the butterflys? I checked my 2001 FLHRI and the TPS voltage was at .875 from factory. This is confusing to me with such a difference in voltage. Great video and explanation. Thanks, Mike
Excellent video!! I have a 99 Road King Police that wants to stall when warm - engine light comes on - sometimes hard to start when warm. Will try this procedure before anything else.
What engine is this procedure for? Does it matter what performance add-ons anyone has installed? What's puzzling me are my initial voltage readings (before touching the screws on the TPS/ left side) which are much higher than .275. My engine is a 97 1340 evo with only a KnN style filter and aftermarket slipons (with baffles). There are slight surges while cruising at speeds and I'm getting some popping when shifting in between gears and on deceleration. Not too bad but, it is popping. I was told that this bike may already have a Stage 1 tune programmed in it. How could I find out? Would this affect the initial voltage readings? Cold idle runs about 1500 and when completely warmed up (sitting in traffic), about 950 so, I think I have the idles set properly. Thanks again, this is very good information, and thanks for the inputs!
Gary Mckay Hello Gary, my bike is a 97 with a 1340, K&N air filter, and aftermarket slipons, so we are very similar there. Your cold idle and warm idle sound like they are in the ballpark for where they should be. What is the voltage on the TPS wire for you? Also note, the cold and warm idle screws have to be backed out enough so they no longer touch anything to hold the throttle plates open at all. In other words, the throttle plates need to be completely closed for this measurement. If you do back off both screws, count the number of turns so that you can turn them back in the same amount and have them back to their original idle settings for both. If you turn them out 7 turns, turn them back in 7 turns when you are done. See what I mean? I have added a fuel injection controller (Dobeck Gen 3) to mine to help tweak the fuel mixture. I have found that if I add too much fuel with the controller that mine will pop on deceleration. I do not know how you can tell if someone has flashed your bike to a Stage 1 setting. If you can find someone with an exhaust analyzer that might be a way to tell where your bike is in terms of air to fuel ratio (lean or rich) How are the plugs? White is lean, brown is good, black is rich.
Thanks Mark for this great video! The gas consumption was extremly high at 98 Electra Glide. I followed your process, set the sensor to .275V then unplugged the 5&15A fuses for a while. After a test ride of 20 miles I recognized that the engine behaviour improved a lot (spark plugs are nice brown). The only strange thing that the warm idle screw does not change the idle when the engine is warmed up. The idle reacts only for cold idle screw. Do you have any suggestion what can be be wrong? Thanks in advance
I'm thinking you are turning the correct screw, inwards as a clockwise direction. If it isn't raising the idle speed perhaps something loosened or came off the butterfly shaft end that the hot idle screw is supposed to contact. You may need to remove enough of the air cleaner to get a visual on what's going on.
Went through this procedure since I've been having some stability issues with the system. Great tutorial but I just cannot drop my initial volt lower than 29.7mv tried everything that's as low as I can get it no matter how much time I take
The adjustments you outlined made my bike run much better when its warmed up but when the bike is cold it high idles at 2000 rpm for 3 to 4 minutes, even if its only been off for 30 min and the bikes still warm. Anything less than about 30 minutes seems fine. I'm thinking the temp sensor, just wanting to know if you've heard of anything similar.
I haven't heard of anything similar. I would check the setting of the cold idle screw. If it's set too high it will idle high until the temp sensor says the engine is at operating temperature. Try backing it out a turn or two.
Hi Mark, thanks for sharing your vid. I´ve buyed a 98 RK here in Germany in 2017. At Decel the Exhaust fired like a Machine Gun, so i guessed that it runs to lean. I set the TPS at 0.275 as recommended an now it is definitely better, but after correcting TPS Setting and cold idle, I have a Problem with the warm idle now. I have no chance to get the Idle below around 1000-1100 RPM (Measuring by Ears), even with completely turned out warm idle screw. Is that correct?. I know that 1000 rpm is recommended, but with the old setting (below 0.200V) I could get the warm idle a way lower (Guess around 850-900rpm) . The Bike does not sounded like a Shovel, but it doesn`t sound that nervous at idle like it does know. Today i´ve taken a look at the German Workshop Manual (FLT 95-96!) and I found TPS volt spec of 0.175 Volt??? Seems that the 0.175 Volt is not only a spec for the Twin Cam Models with MM. Maybe the European Models where tuned a way leaner than the US Models!? Do you ever heard about that issue with the warm idle and is there a way to fix it? With setting at 0.275 it runs really healthy and powerful, so I don´t want to change it, but the high idle drives me crazy. Thanks for help. Regards from Germany Marc
Marc from Germany! You're English is better than my German! Is it true that the bike idles better at 0.275? I was a little confused about the Shovel comment as to if you meant it is idling rough. As for the high idle. What rpm does the motor idle when first start cold? Does the idle slowly fall on its own as the bike warms up? The decel exhaust popping is most likely from the bike running lean. A fuel tuner for Harley twins would be used to richen the fuel mix at lower rpm to cure that. You could richen the upper room points too. Right now I'm trying to get a feel for what your bike is doing. Let me know your answers. Thank you.
Also, make sure you have free play in the throttle at idle. If the cable is not adjusted right it could be holding your butterflies open just a bit, raising the idle. I'm wondering if your cold idle system is staying active and not letting the bike idle down like it should. You said you backed out the warm idle screw completely, can you also try to back out the cold idle screw? It's not going to be easy with the bike running. Shut it off, turn the cold idle screw out a turn, start it back up. Has the idle dropped now?
@@contact4mwy7 Hi and thanks for your fast answer. I need some days without the bike, otherwise it would drive me crazy. Now I checked the freeplay at the throttlecable..they were fine. In next step I reduced the voltage at cold idle from .650 to .600. After cold start the idle will now drop faster to a normal idle than with .650. When it is completely warmed up the idle will stay maybe at around 1.000 rpm, with backed out warm idle screw. Unfortunetely I don`t have a rev counter. Bike runs good, strong and powerful, and the idle is not rough. I just had the feel, that the idle should be lower with turned out idle screw. Now I ´ve seen your vid, introducing the Bassani Slip Ons. Is that the warm idle speed of your bike? When it is, I guess that I don´t have a problem and it´s all fine. Because mine sounds like that in warm idle, maybe a way lower than yours. There ist just a simple reason why I trying to drop the idle a way lower than the recommended 1.000 - 1.100 rpm. If you put on street legal Exhaust for European Market (Very different to US) your Harley sound like a city scooter. I don´t like that super loud exhausts, but I use slip ons that make your Harley sound like it should. But if you have to stop at a traffic light beside a Police Car, you will wish that your engine would be a way quiter, otherwise you have a good chance to wait for the tow truck. With around 850-900 rpm you get less attention. Simple, but it works.
@@1974marwin I understand now why you prefer to go lower. If everything is working normal you should be able to drop it down quite a bit lower until it just doesn't want to idle. Here is another question, there are two screws above the intake openings. They are air screws set from the factory and then epoxy is added to prevent them from moving. Do they look like someone has turned them, like the epoxy has been picked away?
I don't touch the fast idle screw or ISCM, I just take the fast idle control arm completely off, that way I don't have to risk a comeback on the cold idle speed adjustment. I read the voltage on the TPS prior to turning out the hot idle screw, so I can put it back to the exact same position it was before by adding how much voltage I changed the TPS setting to the old hot idle voltage, and that's where I put the hot idle screw back to afterwards.
Sounds like you have it under control, Patrick. I wonder if it runs better after the adjustment if the idle comes up a bit when hot and you might actually have to back it off a little. We'll see. I hope it runs better afterwards. Is this an EVO or Twin Cam 88?
@@contact4mwy7 The idle speed adjustments came out very close to correct, the problem I often found that if I made a significant change in the TPS value, the ECM no longer recognized that the throttle was closed, and it changed the ignition timing on me, so as I was trying to dial in the hot idle, it would bounce back and forth between 800 rpm and 1200 rpm... I had to disconnect the battery for a few hours so the ECM would forget the throttle closed reading, and have to relearn it's new value... Then I could set it to 950 rpm. I set evolutions and twin cams the same way.
Hi Mark, I'm a Harley Newbie with an oldie but a goodie. This week has been some of the hottest outdoor riding temps my 1997 Elctra-Glide Ultra FI has seen. After about a half hour, my in traffic oil pressure dropped to between 1 and 3 multiple times at red lights and thinking it's an warm idle issue, as she's idling at 700rpm. As soon as I blip the throttle/accelerate, I'm back to the 20s. I'll be raising the idle to 900-1000... do I need to go through the initial steps of the cold idle TPS voltage checks to get to the warm idle adjustment or can I jump right to that? Thanks so much!
Great video. Set mine like you did but I'm getting a chirping noise out of the throttle body on my rear cylinder. It has been doing this since I bought the bike. Bad injector? Any advice would be much appreciated.
Eric S Eric, I don't have an answer for you on the chirping from the rear cylinder. I once had a chirping noise, like the sound of a bird, coming from the tube with the rubber cap as shown in the video. The rubber cap had deteriorated and there was a hole in it. At certain throttle positions the air going through that tube would 'chirp.' If you find out what it is, let us know!
It’s back on now, I won’t be taking it back to the shop that took my dfo off , they didn’t know what they were doing and never even asked me. I’m wondering if the work they did fixing my fuel system failed??? I better get a pressure test done and start there don’t you think
As for the multi meter, you need to have one that will read DC volts in MILLIvolts. As the numbers go from the decimal point, 10th, hundredth, thousandths. That is why the reading is 0.275 volts DC on the display. One volt DC would show as 1.000 and a half a volt DC would show as 0.500. Here is a video of the multimeter I used: th-cam.com/video/SSi6kIp_Vrg/w-d-xo.html
If you're asking about the two screws above the intake butterflies, they are "air screws" set from the factory. I've heard it's best to leave them alone.
My bike is this exact engine and intake. It died randomly and was not starting. I changed the temperature sensor and it ran great for 2 days..it has now stopped running any where past idle. I cleaned all parts i could without removing the intake itself. I'll head to get a meter and try this. Will let you know what i find. Thank you for the video Well..i did this and i have other issues i guess. Idles great..hit the throttle and it dies at 1900rpm
I would connect the meter and rotate the throttle. Watch the meter to see if the voltage through it increases as it should or is jumping around or stop changing at a certain point. Other than throttle, the only other thing I can think of that would have an affect is the crankshaft position sensor, which is located at the front of the engine, left side. Temperature sensor shouldn't cause it to die out at a certain rpm. Let me know what you find out.
@@contact4mwy7 i have removed the tank and fuel pump... my plastic bendy straw was leaking in a pin hole... but...i did notice my electriconics were out of calibration and now knowing how to set it i can actually use my turner to see better results when this is fixed.
What's up brother? Great video. Hey, I was wondering, what is the name of the hinge looking thing over the rotating band? I am missing on my bike and I am thinking that's my problem. It looks like it came off the bike and I didn't notice it until now. My bike is giving problems. Please advise as I am in need of this part. Thank you.
Are you asking about the cold idle arm? The stainless steel piece that is mounted to the throttle plate shaft, and is moved by the electric motor with a rubber boot on it. The nut on the shaft loosened up on me on a ride once and caused the bike to run at a high idle when the parts started falling off. I lost the original nut, but put on a replacement with thread locker to help prevent it from happening again. Perhaps you can find a used throttle body online and scavenge the parts from there? Without this arm the bike cannot control the cold idle to a higher rpm for the bike to run good until it warms up. Is your bike having trouble idling when you cold start it?
Hello. I have a 1998 ultra classic. My voltage reads 12v. I have done everything you said. When I adjust the ics it will either say 12 v or 0 v. Mine will not show the .275.
Setting the TPS is only if the bike is not running well, or if someone moved it at all (like me). If the bike runs good with no check engine light, leave it where it is. The tuner helped with the air filter and exhaust changes I made. I hope this helps you.
@@contact4mwy7 Yes ! it did ! My 98 ultra does back fire a little when I deaccelarate ! Is this bad and does it hurt the engine ! it has done it for a long time ! But I still get 50 mpg ! I though it was cool when it back fire ! It has stage one on it ! and I had to change out one oxygen sensor Dealership did that ! U would though they would have done both ! got around 60000 on it and enjoy it very much ! I know a lot of people don't like the MM FUEL INJECTION but my seem to being all right ! My concern now r the fuel line in the fuel tank ! I do burn no ethanol gas ! They said those line get little pin hole in them ! Your though ? thank u so much 4 your time and KNOWLEDGE ! I am glad that I found u !
@@waynejohnson3383 the backfiring out the exhaust could be due to fuel air ratio mix. Best way to tell is pull the plugs and see what color the end of the plug is. White-chalk-like points to too lean. Black-soot-like points to too rich. Anything in between is generally good. I had no real issues with my MM fuel injection. The sensor they changed was likely the head temperature sensor as the MM system on Harley's didn't use O2 sensors. It was what is dubbed an Open Loop System where there is no follow-up by O2 sensors to read if the fuel mix really was correct based on the TPS, head temperature, air temperature, and atmospheric pressure. I replaced the fuel lines on the outside of the tank, and the fuel pump and filter inside the tank (I have a video of as well), and even though I have heard of pinholes in the internal fuel lines I did not see any evidence of it. 50 mpg is in the same ballpark as what I was getting, even with the fuel injection tuners I installed.
Would you have any of this info possibly pertain to a 2007 heritage softail as well? Buddy's bike has got some goofy conditions and was wondering if we could do something like this as well to his, just to make sure. Thanks! Great video!
Jess, I do not have any info on the Delphi fuel injection system yet. I recently traded in my '97 for an '09, so in time I might look into what makes it tick as well. Thank you for the comments, I appreciate it.
Thanks for the reply! Looking further into it there is a recall for his bike where the battery's positive terminal can make contact with the oil reservoir! His conditions would match such a situation, thanks again!
Hi, Great video and info, Have a question, Can the cold and warm idle settings be set without resetting the Throttle Position Sensor? I messed with mine awhile back and need to put it back to the way it was,engine temp sensor went out and thats why I messed with the idle settings. Thanks bob.
Hello Bob, I would have to say 'yes' to that question. Like I said in the video, if you don't have to loosen the screws to the Throttle Position Sensor, don't! Lets assume that it has not been touched since the factory assembled it and it is still accurate. Start with the bike off, unplug the Cold Idle controller, turn the bike on and measure the voltage using the pin as shown in the video. If you are reading 'less' than 0.650 volts DC at the pin, turn the adjustment screw 'in' until it rises to that number. If it is more than that voltage, do the opposite. As for the Warm Idle adjustment, that is done by listening to the motor while running all warmed up. Let me know how this worked out for you.
Hi, before I start had another ? . My meter will only measure 0.65 Yours reads 0.650 would it make much of a difference if any. Thanks Bob. P.S. I have a low cost digital meter
Robert Denniston Bob, since you are just adjusting the cold idle and not the throttle position sensor itself, I would say that using your meter for the cold idle setting should be close enough as it is much more forgiving on its setting than the throttle position sensor which should be dialed in to the 0.275 as it shows. If your meter shows 0.65 and it is actually 0.656, I doubt you will notice the difference on starting and cold idle speed. Go for it!
@@DJDooxx Engine cold. Before you switch on the power, disconnect the cold idle motor harness. I have read there are two different settings, one for EVO (this bike) and one for Twin Cams. I believe I put that information in the description info. Edit: I just read in the description that the cold idle setting may be different for the two. Not the main setting. EVO cold idle 0.620-0.650, TWIN CAM cold idle 0.650-0.680, I would recommend starting at 0.650 for your cold idle setting and readjust if necessary.
I am mostly looking to bring my warm idle down a bit. Just cleaned out throttle body. Idling a little high. I should just be able to adjust warm idle with that one screw right? Thank you for your help
@@DJDooxx Yes, turn that one screw counter-clockwise until the idle comes down to where you want it to be, while engine is hot. If that screw doesn't lower the idle as it should, your cold idle screw may be holding it from going any lower?
Yes. The warm idle screw can be adjusted without any probes hooked up at all. If I remember correctly, right around 1,000 rpm is recommended to keep a good charge on the battery and feed the electronics, etc. So adjust away!
Mark,I've reached out to you before about my 1998 harley-davidson Road king classic. It's been running great . Today I went on like a 4 hour ride and near the end of the ride I hit a spot in the highway where they had base asphalt but hadn't put the surface asphalt in yet. I hit this 2" drop going 60 mph. After that the bike started surging and died at the stoplight. I limped home with it and thought about the throttle position sensor. I got to the tps and found one of the screws to the tps was already loose. I did your procedure for the tps . Trying to get to .275 but was getting readings over 1 and then .24. It it possible that the tps is bad?
I wouldn't say it was bad just yet. Maybe when the screw(s) was/were loose it rotated just a bit. They are very sensitive as you may have seen on your multimeter. See if you can get it to 0.275 and try it out. Coat the outer edge of the screw heads with clear fingernail polish to help keep it from loosening on its own.
mark, very informative videos on magneti marelli efi, i need to know if its possible for the tpi to be at .133 reading and the epoxy is still in adjustment screws. could it have moved on its own. didnt want to touch till i asked ya, thanks bro, rich 1998 road king flhrci magneti marelli. keep the video's comming
+richard hinton Richard, ask yourself how the bike is starting and running. It could be that the internals of the TPS are getting a bit "sloppy" with age, turning back and forth on the end of the throttle shaft, causing your seemingly low reading. I'm going to guess the check engine has not been blinking on you. When I was experimenting with my TPS, I turned it to the point that the check engine light came on under heavy throttle. That's why I researched this procedure and had to do it to my bike. That being said, my bike is one year older than yours, and with these settings the thing runs buttery smooth, never hickups, pulls strong, and gets great gas mileage that makes the others that ride with me jealous to boot. Like the saying goes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But if it were me, I'd lay awake at night wondering if it could run even better than it does now if it were adjusted to what I believe to be the "correct" settings. So far, according to the comments, everyone who has done this has had positive results. I'd hate for you to be the first 'negative.' Up to you, keep me posted on what you decide. I'm just a guy, not a mechanic, that isn't afraid to experiment and tinker with stuff.
Hi, Thanks for the video. Since you know the magneti and marelli system, I'm hoping you can answer a question of mine. Having fuel issues, replace my fuel pump , filter and tubing and a leaky quick connect. Still will not even try to start. I pulled my fuel assembly up just enough that my pump syphon was still in fuel, activated my pump to check for tubing leaks. No leaks but I noticed my fuel return line just pumped a solid stream of fuel back when I activated the pump. I was wondering if you know anything about the regulator preceding the fuel return line? Thanks, John.
Hello John, I am familiar with the location of the fuel pressure regulator atop the intake manifold. To be sure this is a fueling issue, have you tried pulling the plugs and checking for spark? Can you carefully spray something flammable into the intake, such as WD-40 or starter fluid, and then turning over to see if it makes the engine tries to run?
@@contact4mwy7 Thanks for the reply Mark. I do have spark, It will try to run when I add fuel to the intake. Kind of been scratching my head with this. I don't have a scanalyzer to hook up, was thinking maybe the injectors aren't firing or fuel.
@@mopardeer if it fires from an added source, then fuel would seem to be the problem. Did this start out as replacing a leaky fuel line coupling under the tank? Are you 100% on the routing of the tubing (didn't connect up backwards for instance)? Can you hear the fuel pump run when you first power up the bike?
@@contact4mwy7 I started with fuel pump not running. It's a 2000 road king, 22000 miles, original pump failed and in pretty rough condition, lots of debris in tank. Replaced filter and pump cleaned out tank and now I can hear the pump run and shut off when I turn my ignition on. Still didn't start. I disconnected the quick connect leaving the tank cause I heard of it failing and not allowing fuel out. Well, it was original equipment also and leaked when reconnected. I got a new quick connect fitting which came with new tubing which hooked to the filter discharge in tank. I'm pretty sure I got the tubing all correct. Checked fuses numerous times, heard the flow in the tank, found out it was the return line and was just curious of the flow back. When I turn on the ignition, pump runs and a constant stream flows into the tank till pump shuts off. I haven't found an easy way to verify fuel pressure to injectors, don't have an in line gauge. You're probably sorry you replied to me........sorry, haha. I set it aside few weeks ago, figured I'd think on it before tearing more apart.
@@mopardeer I'm curious why it's not firing up too. When you can safely introduce another fuel source that might shed some light on it. Were the plugs wet with gas or dry as a bone?
Well I've noticed a significant difference in power but still get some popping and backfiring on deceleration... also the idle seems a bit low until it warms up...at what point should I just bring it in and get it tuned ????
Jeff Ellis It does sound like it's running a bit lean if it is idling low until it warms up and pops on deceleration. I would take it to a reputable shop and ask what they suggest. I put a fuel injection tuner on mine to take care of it running lean.
Thanks for a great video, I followed your suggestions and I'm having an issue with a chirp that lowers the RPM. Any suggestions on how to fix would be appreciated.
I could hear a chirp sound from mine. It was a vacuum leak from a cracked rubber cap. I point out the location in the video, Frankie, did you see that? If it's not that I would look into checking the intake gaskets. Does it sometimes backfire at idle, skip on one cylinder kind of thing? Does it run better when the throttle is opened more, which would mean less influence from a vacuum leak. Sucking in more air than what the computer thinks is going in will lean the fuel mixture and make it run crappy the more the throttle is closed. Check your spark plugs after it idles for a while, you can let it cool off before pulling them, and see if one is lighter than the other. That might be the side that has an intake vacuum leak?
@@contact4mwy7 i have a1996 ultra when i give it throttle at 65 mph it will miss could i fix this with what you did appreciate your help also cold idle is to low
@@lisagodin6380 you can turn the cold idle stop screw in a quarter turn at a time until you bring the cold idle up to where you want it, typically around 1,100 to 1,200 rpm. Does your bike have fuel injection for sure? Have you changed the air filter or box to an aftermarket? Is the exhaust aftermarket?
+Michael Walsh Yes, Michael, thanks! I was not aware of this step when I made the video, but it does say in the shop manual instructions, that I put a link to above, that both fuses should be pulled for at least one minute. I have now added that to the video as a Note.
What is your multi meter ranged too? Also i rotated the tps and could not get .275 ..the most i could get rotating the tps was .050 and like .080 when rotating throttle..so i tried ranging my meter different to Mili amps and still no where near your .275 mark..i also couldn't get fast idle to .650 either
@@garyharriss5322 The multimeter is set to millivolts, that way it can measure less than 1 volt DC, which is what these settings are. Make sure you are probing the correct wire and have a good ground, and that your battery is fully charged.
great video, have a 98 ultra glide, all of a sudden the engine light comes on and off inertmittently, sometimes when I throttle up or down, or shift thru gears, checked code by turning on and off ignition and got # 11, which is tps, is that easily replaced by unscrewing the replacing, then calibrate the way you describe, or is it more than that? Don S
LilOsideSmitty My best guess is that once you remove your old TPS and install the new one, using these settings, you should be good to go with no more check engine light. As I stated in the video, I "guessed" the setting trying to trick it into thinking it should add more fuel (as I had seen done on a snowmobile) but that just led to intermittent check engine light similar to what you describe. I don't believe there is a way to "guess" the TPS setting, it is just too sensitive. Very little movement one way or the other leads to a big difference in voltage reading. Good luck, and let me know how it turns out!
I don’t know what setting on the multimeter to measure, volts right ? Mine either registers on 200 mv = 27.5, or if I put the meter on 2v , it registers .0275, also when I adjust the fast idle screw it will only read .046 with the screw all the way in
It's measured in DC volts. Millivolts. 275 is the number you need for the throttle position sensor. 0.275 is just over a quarter volt. As for the cold idle screw (fast idle), adjust that when you're done to a comfortable high idle, and make sure it idles down to the warm idle screw position.
James, there is a rubber cap on a short metal pipe sticking up on the top of the carburetor body. You can see it is black in the video, and on the other side from the cold idle motor mechanism. It's about a 1 inch long rubber 'sleeve' that slides down over the metal tube. I think the metal tube was used as a vacuum for another system, possibly to do with emissions? The speech bubble has a little arrow at the bottom of it, kinda hard to see, that is pointing directly to the top of it. My bike made a kind of 'bird chirping noise' at low rpm down the road which I later found out was coming from the hole in the original rubber. I hope this helps!
@@fgrann MILLIvolts. As the numbers go from the decimal point, 10th, hundredth, thousandths. That is why the reading is 0.275 volts DC on the display. One volt DC would show as 1.000 and a half a volt DC would show as 0.500. Here is a video of the multimeter I used: th-cam.com/video/SSi6kIp_Vrg/w-d-xo.html
Can I test my TPS in a similar fashion? 2001RK police, Magnetti Marelli efi , stage 1 w/Rev-Tech dfo. Started having low fuel mileage, then hesitation at 3200rpm , I replaced the fuel pressure regulator, mileage improved some but the hesitation didn’t go away then I took it to have it Dyno tune never made a hiccup all the way to the shop ran great when I left there filled with gas and everything went to hell. Took it to a different shop to repair a broken fuel line in the tank, but they took my dfo off the bike. The guy the dino tuned it said not to run out with that off the bike that it would run to lean. 150 miles back to the Dino tuner the bike ran great all the way home the next day it started coughing and hiccuping stumbling around 2800 RPM then later at 30200-3400. I have a new battery new plugs new plug wires checked all the ground connections look for broken wires bad fuses anything that might cause an intermittent problem. So I’m down to the TPS and before I remove it and replace it I would like to test it through the full range of the throttle, Can I test the ohms and look for internal problems?
Wow, that's a lot of troubleshooting, Dan. I would say yes, you can check the TPS using this method with the bike turned on but not running. Remember, this is an "Open Loop System" which means the fuel system has sensors in place for engine temperature, barometric pressure, air temperature, and throttle position. It doesn't have O2 sensors to "check the end results of the fuel to air ratio" from the exhaust. I'm not familiar with the Rev Tech DFO, so I'll have to look that one up. Low fuel mileage sounds like it must be running rich. We're the plugs charcoal black when you pulled them? Does this stumble happen when it's on the Dyno? Does it happen with the bike in neutral just rotating the throttle? I ask because I have to wonder if it's running too rich in the upper rpm's causing your stumble as I have found that is a possibility. Other than that you have the engine temperature sensor, air temperature sensor, ignition module, barometric pressure sensor, and fuel injectors as possible culprits too. How hard is it to remove this Rev Tech and go for a short ride, nothing to crazy, to see if the stumble is still there? I have to refresh my memory if the your twin cam has a crankshaft position sensor mounted on the front of the engine case or if that's just the newer motors? Have you verified that the rubber plug on the intake manifold above the butterflies is not cracked and leaking vacuum air? Mine was cracked and made a chirping sound from the vacuum leak. I bought a new rubber plug at the auto parts store and slipped it onto the metal vacuum port. No more vacuum leak.
Second reply: Dan, I looked the RevTech up and it is very similar, if not identical, to the Dobeck Performance TFI unit that I had used on my bike! In this video you can see me making adjustments to the GREEN ZONE (general cruising) and somewhat adjusting the RED ZONE (upper RPM's adjustment). In the video description, I posted this... UPDATE: After going through a few tanks of gas, I have settled onto the settings of 3:00, 6:00, 4:00, 4:00, as though you were looking at the hour hand of a clock, just as Dobeck recommended. They must have spent a fair amount of dyno research to come up with these settings. So I have to ask you, what are the settings of your RevTech? What numbers are each dial pointing to? Dobeck advised thinking of the numbers as the hour hand on a clock. 1:00, 2:00, 3:00, etc. Here is my video, and if you search Dobeck Performance TFI on youtube you will find other videos as well showing the tuning of this unit. th-cam.com/video/X1a9kBx_Lb4/w-d-xo.html As far as unhooking it, I believe this is a "fuel adding device" only, which means if you back off all of the pointers to the 1:00 position they will not be adding any fuel over the stock fuel map, effectively taking the unit out of the equation. Again, my favorite settings for my 1997 Road King EVO was with the pointers at 3:00, 6:00, 4:00, 4:00 from left to right.
Third reply: Here is a link to a cached version of the Dobeck Performance TFI unit instructions for a Yamaha Raider/Roadliner/Stratoliner bike, but does not specify settings for those bikes, just how to dial the unit in. Transfer this advise to your RevTech unit to get a better understanding of what is going on when tuning. webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RC0EDFPVe70J:www.tficontrollers.com/instructions/950142052.pdf+&cd=11&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Mark,are the .275 and the.650 numbers set in stone? Or can you adjust to not run lean.I heard that factory settings are on the lean side. The reason I ask is my 1998 Magnetti Marrelli Road King Classic runs great at those settings ,but when I hit the throttle hard it will miss a little. As long as I'm just cruising along it runs fine. Any suggestions you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Again
The 0.650 setting is a general setting for cold idle only. The 0.275 setting is the base setting for the whole fuel injection system. It is a reference for both amount of fuel to inject and the ignition timing. You can experiment with higher settings to see if you can get an improved result without pinging or a check engine light. I used a piggyback fuel injection controller (Dobeck type, Techlusion) on my Road King to add just a little more fuel.
Hey Mark, just this summer my '01 Road King seems to have lost it's cold idle, and the warm idle seems to be slower than it was, although, otherwise, the bike still runs great. I checked the cold idle motor yesterday, on a cold start, and probably within 5-10 seconds or so, it starts to retract, dropping the fast idle right down. Is that normal? It is summer, and it sits in a pretty warm (sometimes hot) garage, but last summer it did seem to hold the fast idle longer. Just wondering if maybe the ecu is getting a false signal for the air temp, or cyl head temp sensor saying she's already warmed up? Thoughts? Maybe something else?
My first though, as this was happening to me, is that both the cold idle and warm idle screws are backing themselves out. I had to readjust both even after resetting the throttle position sensor had them set correctly. As you said, after a Summer or two, both seemed to be lower than normal. The last time I set them I backed them out to put blue loctite on the threads. I traded the bike two months ago, but it was good at that time. I found the cold idle seems to slowly drop as the bike warms up, not a steep change like the newer ones, and as the screw backs out it gives the slow idle motor less travel to gradually work with, so it seems to drop sooner than it should for a cold start. Make sense?
+bryanjh73 I had the meter set to DC Volts, I believe the lowest range it has, probably in millivolts. That's why it would show "OL" meaning Over Load when I would turn the throttle by hand as it went over that settings maximum range, and had I wanted to measure voltage in that higher range instead I would have had to set the meter to a higher DC Volt range. These meter testers can be found if you look around enough, and yes, the TPS setting is very sensitive!
+Mark Young +-I didnt pay attention on the cold warm idle screw when turning it out. Do you know where it should be if I started with it all the way in? I tried it with the settings you suggest. And it is sputtering. Would this be from the warm idle screw being too far in or out? Or any other suggestions would be great, Thanks again!
The cold idle screw is set with the cold idle motor unplugged and the DC volts set to 0.650 just as shown in the video. The warm idle screw is to be set once the bike has warmed up and is no longer resting against the cold idle screw motor, with the motor plugged back in of course. If the bike is idling too slow once it warms up then you need to turn the warm idle screw IN until it comes up to around a smooth 1,000 rpm (recommended by Harley for both being easier on the connecting rod bearings and keeping the battery charged at idle). If it will not idle right at all then there is something else going on with the system that is not normal. My bike is set according to these settings and functions normally in all weather conditions, warm or cool. The only setting that is not set by the volt meter is the warm idle. You need to set that on your own. I hope you find where the issue is.
Hello mark when you finished setting the tps did you use lock tite on the screws or just tighten them? I had to redo my tps on my 2001 road king today, noticed the bike was not running correctly I even unplugged my dobek tfi to see if it was that and bike still ran sloppy so when I checked it the tps was way off it was at 350 and the cold idle was 725 so I had to reset the tps and the cold but wanted to make sure if I have to use lock tite on the screws thank u for all the helpful videos
Thanks for asking! I don't remember right now if I used thread locker or a dab of fingernail polish around the head of the screw, but yes, put something on them. I also had to find a replacement nut on the end of the throttle butterfly rod where the cables connect. Fell off. Plus the warm idle and cold idle screws kept creeping so I thread lockered them too. Vibrations galore on those bikes! Glad you have a Dobek fuel tuner, I used two of them and thought they were awesome! Rock on! 👍
Mark Young - Outside The Box funny my screw from that tab fell off when I was riding times I have been thinking switching to a carb I love my bike but not this efi, some people loves them but hopefully this time I can keep it good if not might be investing a carb cv40
@@aircamry I was at that crossroad too before I found the specs and reset my bike. It ran like a top from that day on, especially with either of the Dobek tuners I used. Once you reset everything to where it's supposed to be, maybe you'll have that same reliability and forget about spending money on a carb setup. That being said, I've run bikes with CV carbs too, and they are the next best thing to EFI where they are air density based.
Hello mark I had the. Ike running great and it starts messing up again my tps is set at 0.275 and my cold 0.650 the bike will idle good and when I ride for some time and then park it for an hour or two at a location the bike will idle really high and stay there and won’t drop, so lucky I had my tolls with me I started to work on it to get the idle correct again, and again the idle dropped this time so far where the bike died couple times the 3 light I had to keep the throttle open at the light so I can get to a safe spot to pull over and check it, I’m not sure what’s going on? So I get home the next day I recheck everything all numbers are good and then start the bike and then. Idle drops so low again and then I added more idle and the bike seems idling ok now should I be looking at something else?
+Duane Franklin Well Duane, that is the 100,000 dollar question. I really don't know if the change in cubic inches will need different settings or not. My gut feeling is that this is only metering the air/fuel ratio, not cubic feet of intake or vacuum, so it in theory 'should' be the same settings. How is your bike running? Do you have a fuel programmer module attached to it? I hooked one up on mine even though I don't have drastic changes to the bike's intake and exhaust and it was worth every dollar and minute it took to hook it up. I have 2 videos that cover 2 different systems for that.
+Duane Franklin I did a little more research and found information on a forum that showed different cold idle voltage settings for the 1340 engine (1340 Domestic/HDI 0.61 to 0.64) volts and the 1450 (1450 Domestic/HDI 0.64 to 0.68) volts twin cam engine that came out in 1999. So it would seem for bigger displacement a higher voltage reading is wanted which would in turn open the intake butterflies just a bit more when cold. Warm idle is recommended to be set at around 950-1,050 rpm to go easy on the crank bearings and to keep a good charge to the battery while idling for extended periods. At 1556.77 cubic centimeters (95 inches) bore, you might need to guess a number in the .68 to .72 volt range for an idle that is just above the warm idle 1,050 rpm (say 1,200 rpm) for it to warm up and then drop to the warm idle setting. Maybe?
Hey Mark, Basically out of no where my bike started running really rough near the end of last season caughing and bucking at around 3000 rpm or above. Took the joy out of riding for sure. I decided to do some maintenance during our cold Canadian winter. I changed the internal fuel lines, fuel filter ( needed this anyway, you could hardly blow air through it ), head temp sensor, went over the whole bikes electrical connections, cleaned the throttle body, lots of crud came out of those to holes above the butterflies. All this did nothing and the bike ran the same as last year. I followed this tutorial and voila the bike runs as good as it ever has while I've had it. I used the .275 and .650. I wanted to give you a big THANK YOU!!! I also followed your tutorial for the filter and lines in the tank by the way.😀
Hey Mark, I am using the Dobeck fuel controller and have followed the tutorial you posted on setting it up. I can't thank you enough for the tutorials that you have posted. The Harley techs at the dealerships here eyes glaze over and they run away when you mention Magneti Marelli, haha. With the adjustments to the throttle position sensor my bike idles right at 1000 rpm when it's warmed up. I installed a tach over the winter so now I can tell. Thanks again !!!
@danabarnette7891 The throttle position sensor number is .275 and the cold idle screw is .650. My multimeter was set on 20 volts,it's the next highest number on your multimeter above 12 volts.
Wow,thank you for this video. I was having issues with my 1998 Road King Classic. Had a melted cam position sensor and I replaced that,and it was still missing a little bit. I did the steps in your TPS video and the bike is running fantastic again. My number was .094 instead of .275. Thanks again and keep it up. We Magnetti Marili guys gotta stick together
Harley tech here… I’m not the best w mag morelli but this worked like a charm when an older bike came in
Glad to hear it, that's what it's for.
I'm old school always ran carburetors last year I picked up my first fuel injected bike ... had no idea how to adjust it and the manual said it HAD to be done by the dealer ... I thought when I read it ... "this is BS" ... you confirmed my hypothesis ... thanks for the tips ... I have subscribed.
Thank you! This is how to adjust this particular brand of fuel injection. I haven't found much on the Delphi systems that replaced this one, but maybe some day I will need to explore them more. This motor came to life with aftermarket fuel injection tuners! I have a newer bike now and it has a Power Commander V on it. Personally, I think it's hard to beat the CV Carbs for simplicity, accuracy and dependability in an all-in-one carb setup!
Can't thank you enough. Harley had my bike for 3 weeks, got it back and it was hitting full throttle and cold idle was around 3500 rpm. After this fix she's back to running like a champ, Thank you very much!!
Mark I would like to add my experience with the whole process. I have studied all aspects of this tune. So with bolt on cam, ported heads along with your video I have backed out screws, unplugged cold idle. The Engine was warm. I was crying at the time because I have made many adjustments for days. I was told adding performance upgrades change everything. Setting the base point of .275 then set WARM IDLE AT .500. I set all to voltage numbers lowest to highest. for my bike, 2000 road king MM EFI, TRUE DUAL, DME .510 CAM.... .820 V cold idle. I feel unplugging the 5 and 15 amp fuses is KEY HERE. Idle is warm and cold is dead nuts where it needs to be. When cold it rises for a moment to 1650 settles in around 1200 and slowly drops into the 1050 range perfectly. just thought I would share. Thanks for your Vid It helped my solve my problems. The Mag Marelli has worked well for 14+ years and needed some help in the last year but its like new again. Mark S.
Got my new throttle position sensor 2day and straight to the bike hoping it would fix my issues. Followed Mark's video exactly, along with a few more tips that Mark gave me,for which I am so grateful, because I just took it out on a shakedown cruise and it's running better than ever. 1998 Road King Classic with 109,000 miles. Thanks Mark,keep up the good work
Glad to hear it! Enjoy!
Wow. Thanks for taking the time to make this video! I bought a '95 cheap because the owner had issues with the check engine light. The tps looked brand new. I checked it using your instructions, and sure enough it was way off!
Runs like a champ now!
Edward, that is great news! I'm glad you were able to get your bike running the way it should be using this video. Mine still runs like a champ too!
Need help i have a 95 electra glide classic rev high on its own you think these steps will help my issue
I know its 3yrs but your symptom sounds like a broken butterfly
just letting whoever reads this know, i have a 1998 flhtcui, had engine light come on, had code for throttle position sensor, followed your detailed instructions, adjusted warm idle to 1000rpm from bike tachometer, drove it for awhile, runs great, got rid of 90% of popping when throttling down, only problem I had was idle would go up to 1200rpm a couple of times at stop lights, i'll run for a couple of weeks and redo procedure again too see if that helps. thank you so much for this video
LilOsideSmitty Thanks for the feedback, Smitty. I am wondering why it is idling up at stops like that, but can't think of a reason for it. My only guess, and just that, is that maybe it has to do with the temperature sensor on top of the front cylinder? If it is sending a report to the ECU that the engine has not fully warmed up, could it cause the cold idle to boost it just a bit? If you do recheck anything, I would suggest a lower setting on the cold idle adjustment, maybe back it off half a turn, a whole turn, etc. to see if this idling up at a stop goes away? Let me know what you find out.
My temp sensor went out and it was doing just that...
I know this is old I can add some info for others. Mine would idle up little once in a while, eventually my throttle cable broke about 1/4 inch from the brass connector up top. I figure it was frayed and not returning to the same position very time. I never had a throttle cable break before. These 98 RG efi, cables were 20 yrs old. Return cable was fine. I replaced the cables with 2006 cables, form and fit looked the same. Now bike is not running right, hesitation during acceleration. That's how I ended up on this page. Hoping to get through this, the TPS seems to be functioning, I am able to set it to .275 and set the idle screws, seems the HD manal also says something about disconnecting the battery for 10 minutes after a TPS adjustment so it forgets the idle positions. Still cant get it running right, dang mystery what happened when I only replaced the cables. It was running fine before this.
UPDATE: I got it tuned the second day and been running great. My problem was my 98 manual had some conflict with the process in the video, and I had watched the video but not read the "show more" information The second day I slowed down and read about the 2000 service bulletin that literally corrected a mistake in the manual and clarified the process immensely. I see now the service bulleting reference was now removed from the "show more" and placed at the top of the comment block. Good deal, now hopefully less folks will miss it like I did. Great video, thanks a bunch. My bike is running like a new bike.
haven't done it yet,23 degrees here in illinois. I'll let you know when the weather breaks and I can take her for a spin.
I was doing so many of these that I made a breakout harness to plug between the TPS and it's connector, so I used both the signal wire and ground wire at the sensor instead. I saved myself all the trouble of dicking around with the cold idle screw and ISCM by just removing the arm instead. Before touching the hot idle screw, I have my meter connected and check the TPS setting first. Write down the initial setting, then back out the hot idle screw several turns until the throttle plates seat in the bore. Now write down the sensor reading again, and subtract that from 275 to get the amount you're moving the sensor. Adjust the sensor. Now add the amount you moved the sensor to the initial reading you took to get your new hot idle screw setting, and turn the hot idle screw back in to that sensor reading. It will be nearly perfect. Now disconnect the battery to wipe the ECM's idle position memory so it will learn the new one, then you can make a final adjustment on the hot idle. I found that -not- wiping the memory, if you try to adjust the hot idle, it can jump back and forth between too low and too high because the ECM is messing with the ignition timing - idle timing is different than off idle timing.
Great video! I was having problems after completing my stage 1 on my 1996 Ultra Classic so I adjusted it according to this and what a difference. I did also adjust the air bleed screws before doing this procedure. (remove epoxy from the 2 screws directly above the runner between the 2 throats of the induction system. Lightly seat them both then back out 1 1/2 turns just like a starting point on most carbs.) I'm at sea level and it idles beautiful and runs strong. Thanks for the simple straight forward video.
Thanks so much for this video. My bike was running fine then all of a sudden started misfiring. I saw your video, retrieved the 1-1 DTC (TPS) and decided to try your fix. Within 40 minutes my 97 Road King was running like a champ!! In fact, the TPS settings must have been off for a while because I don't even remember my bike running this smoothly before. I would suggest though that the adjustment be done with the engine at operating temperature and to make sure the cold start plunger tip is completely off. Thanks again.
+Patrick de Borja Glad it helped you out, and here's to many more miles!
Kenneth Smillie, the engine temperature does not matter for this procedure. With the bike in the OFF position, unplug the cold idle motor connector. It will stay in this "neutral" position throughout the process, even after you turn ON the power.
I wasn't able to adjust the sensor on my 2001 ultra classic the set screws had apoxy on the ends but by having it apart I noticed my cold idle motor plug was a little loose. After I made sure that was tight I turned in both screws the same as I loosened them ran the bike for a bit adjusted the warm idle to where I wanted it and just like that my problems were solved. I would have had no idea where to even start 8f it wasn't for your video. Thank you very much you kept my wallet a little fatter today!!
I watched your video twice before going out to my newly purchased '97 FLHTCUI. Bike only has 8700 miles on it, with a stage 1 air cleaner and cycle shack slip-on mufflers. I wanted to adjust the idle and make sure it was adjusted properly after seeing that my oil pressure had dropped to 0 (at idle) on the gage and a short time later the oil light would come on at idle. (Oil pressure does climb when moving.)
So, I hooked up a meter and followed your procedure. Checking my initial settings, my initial voltage is 0.933vdc which is considerably lower than what you are describing (0.275vdc) At this point, I stopped and started surfing the net. I can not find anywhere on the net that references your numbers.
This is a 97 flhtcui, 80" evo, stage 1 flash by the dealer. I'm at the point where I think I need to follow the procedures in the manual of adjusting ONLY the cold idle screw, pulling the fuse, etc.
Gary Mckay I opted to (as you suggested) leave the sensor setting alone. I did not remove the epoxy from the screws. I did set the cold idle to 0.650 and it idles cold at 1500-ish. After allowing it to run long enough to be good and warmed up, I adjusted the Warm idle to 950-1000 (on the bike tach). I watched the oil pressure from cold to warm, started high and dropped low enough to make the light come on solid. With MUCH research (and still looking), popular concensus is, "this is normal at idle and hot engine." Pressure does rise to 15-20 or so cruising down the road. Any thoughts and words of wisdom are welcome and appreciated.
Gary Mckay Hello Gary, I found the numbers on a Harley Davidson discussion board which I have now included a link to in the description which starts with "Click here to read full forum posts". I also included links to the service bulletin from Harley Davidson on setting the voltages per 1340 or 1450 motors with the MM system. I have put many miles on mine with these same settings still going strong. I just logged 170 miles of back road and highway riding combined and got 51 mpg. Two up rides were getting an average of 49 mpg. As far as your oil pressure goes, that makes me nervous that it is low enough that the light is coming on. Are you using 20w-50 oil and the correct oil filter? Also, there is an oil screen that filters oil to the tappets (lifters). Here is a link: th-cam.com/video/47ljGG0XMa0/w-d-xo.html. Otherwise, you really should seek professional help with it to be sure you are not in for a surprise down the road. Good luck to you my friend.
Thanks for the info!My 01 king was having some cold start and idle issues,and after using your method he's running like a king again!!
That's great! Nothing like having it run like it should, right?!
Just found this video, that looks like a late 90s Roadking Classic. I have a 98 Roadking Classic with EFI Evo, it runs well at the moment but with the Magneti Marelli EFI system, it is always in the back of my mind that it will, at some point, give me trouble. Not a lot of mechanics in south eastern Australia who know how to work on them, certainly not Harley dealerships. Having watched your video, I think I might check those settings on mine, as it sometimes wont idle back once it warms up! Great information, thank you.
Glad you found it. It is rare to find any tech, dealer or Indy, that knows what makes these tick. This one is a 1997. After the adjustments it ran very well up to the time I traded it. Made trips across state lines two-up, no issues, great gas mileage, plenty of power. I did add an aftermarket EFI tuner to add a pinch more fuel. As long as all sensors are working properly this EFI system should last a long time. It got a reputation of being hard to work on so Harley moved on to the Delphi system. Set it and forget it. It doesn't like to be tinkered with, but once it is setup properly it just runs great.
Thank you so much man👍🏼 keep making good videos like this you totally saved about $600 of dyno tuning. Bike was running like crap I saw your video did the same reset my tp sensor with my tuner and labtop and bingo!
Thanks again 😎
That's awesome man! Glad it helped and thanks for letting me know!
Thanx mark. I did go to the other link and figured out the multimeter setting. Got it set and good to go now. YOU THE MAN !!!!!!!
Just a quick note to say THANKS for doing this video! Just bought my first HD and it has been a BEAR to crank when hot! My local independent won't even touch a Marrelli'd bike. Followed your instructions step-by step after changing the ETS on my 2000 Ultra and the bike runs and starts better than EVER! Could I ask where you got the info on the sensor output voltages and such? I would like to have the spec'd voltage for all the sensors since this is gonna be my baby for a loooooooong time!
smacdowngrafix Glad to hear it, Smac! I found the settings on a message board website, there are lots of them out there. I do not have any of the voltages or specs on the other sensors yet. I also have 2 videos of installing performance fuel injection controllers to the Marelli system if you want to check those out. Good luck with it!
Following this procedure, I was able to correct a starting issues on a 1998 Electra Glide Classic. I'm not the original owner, and the owner previous to me did not know its history. To start the bike, I needed to crack the throttle open to allow more air to enter the intake. The bike would idle rough until reaching normal operating temperature; like a motor with a carburetor, I would have to work with the throttle to keep the motor from stalling. Following the steps and settings Mark identifies in this video, I was able to reset the throttle position sensor to a reasonable base setting and make further adjustments from there. The starting issue has been resolved. The motor now promptly starts when cold without touching the throttle due to the corrected throttle position setting and the cold idle screw adjustment. The idle speed control actuator takes over until the motor reaches its normal operating temperature followed by the warm idle adjustment. The motor now runs smoother and when idling at about 1050 RPM, has greatly reduced the "Harley shake" at idle. Mark, thank you for posting this video. I'm certain it has save me from spending hundreds at the local HD Dealership to correct this issue.
Thanks for the comments, Dan! I'm glad it worked out for you. If you saved money, that's great! I also made the video for some to show to their Harley shops if they can not do it themselves. Some shops are not familiar with these MM systems, and it has become a lost art to set them up properly. Sounds like you have it purring like it should! Safe riding to you my friend!
I know this video is old but THANK YOU Mark Young. Got my 98 Road King running like she was new again. I was a little concerned but it worked out. Great video again!!
Glad to hear another Harley MM system is running as it should. I really enjoyed that fuel injection system and the ability to tweak it with fuel controllers from Dobeck. I have videos on using them on my channel as well if you're interested, but if it's running good, leave it be, right?! Ride on!
@@contact4mwy7 Hey Mark, my 01 is in the shop. I’m told the ecm might be bad. I need a scanalyzer to know for sure but I’m hearing there’s no way to find parts for the magneti marelli nightmare I am living. I wish I was close to you, somehow I’m betting you could fix this.
I'm sorry to hear it! There aren't very many shops that will even look at that system now. What was it doing that it's not supposed to be?
Re-did the procedure bike now runs absolutely perfect! I had added a cobra auto-tune and never had total stability in the system till now great tutorial!
Awesome, man! I just visited Laconia Bike Week with mine and it ran great all of the almost 500 miles I put on it. I'm glad these settings have proven themselves for others, and especially your Cobra Auto-tune! Do you know why the procedure didn't work the first time around for you? Just curious, and it may help others. Thanks for the response!
By the way, I averaged 53.6 miles per gallon after 2 of the fill-ups on the trip! (your mileage may vary depending on the size of your engine and other influences. My engine is the 80 cubic inch / 1340 cubic centimeter EVO).
thanks for the time and work you put in this video...now at least I understand were the cold and hot idle screws are....
Thank you for a clear and concise explanation of this system! I am a Factory trained tech a little out of practice with this system and needed a little refresher!
Thank you Donatel! That covered the basics of it, but when it comes to the temperature sensor in the head, and the barometric sensor under the right side cover, there is still more to this system to figure out. But using these settings as your foundation, you can build from there! Glad it helped. Good luck helping other people keep their rides on the road! We need more of you!
Thank a lot. I can fixed my 97 Road King. Thanks a lot and best regard from Germany
Your video has saved me alot of money and hassle! Thanks
+Frank ZAVALA If anything, if people at least show this to a mechanic it could take a lot of the guess work and trial and error out of getting it right, I hope. Thanks!
I hooked up the meter and without touching anything it read.650, I turned the throttle up and down and everything was smooth so I think I can rule out the TPS. To answer your questions it was running great on the Dyno twice! He told me “don’t let anyone ever tell you that Rev-tec dfo/ Magnetti Marelli combined isn’t a great set up “ it ran awesome for 100 miles till I filled the tank on the way home, same exact pump I used on the way down it immediately ran like s$-! I was to far to turn back, when I called him he said must be in the tank. Sure enough I sprung a leak. But the shop closer to home that no longer dyno’s bikes fixed the fuel line but removed my dfo. Said they couldn’t get the. Bike started. With the rhinehart tru duels i have always had to get it on a dyno to tune it, but she runs like a bat out of hell! Been everywhere from Boston to Homer Alaska and back home to Michigan 😎
They removed it because they couldn't get the bike started? Was it put back on? The only way I can think of that it would interfere with starting the bike was if one or both fuel injection connectors was not getting a good connection. All the unit is designed to do is add fuel to the factory map ratio.
Thanks for sharing not sure if my tps is good but going to try want you need. Thanks!
Thank you I just bought a 2001 ultra and it had a lean skip from 2000 rpm to 2500. TPS was never touched from the factory, Still had epoxy in the screws. It was set wrong from day one. Lean issue is gone bike pulls hard and no pop skip at 2000 rpm’s Thank you again
I forgot to mention. No more popping through the exhaust on decel or between shifts.
the best instructional video I've seen! thank you so much for taking the time to do it.
Hi Mark.. I have a 2001 FLHTCUI. I followed you directions to the letter so I thought. When it came to setting the cold idle to .650. I started the bike and the cold idle was 3000 rpm. I don't know what I am doing wrong.. I watched the video over and over and over lol.
Sounds like something is holding the throttle open more than it should be! Things to go over: Did you turn the bike on and then off before you unhooked the cold idle motor connector? This will put it into it's "neutral position." Are you sure you turned the cold idle screw and not the warm idle screw when you made the setting of 0.650 DC volts? Inspect the throttle butterflies motion when you turn the throttle; are they opening and closing smoothly or does it feel like something is binding? Are the butterflies almost completely closed when you let off the throttle? After all of these checks, I would then back out either the cold idle screw or warm idle screw 1/2 to 1 turn, and then start the bike to see if the idle has come down. Work on one screw at a time and hopefully you may find the one that might be turned in too far. If it's not the idle screws, it's something else causing this issue.
Thanks Mark for replying. The only thing I did not do was cycle the bike on and off before starting. She is still sitting in the garage with the air cleaner off so I can start again. Once the bike warmed up last night I played with the warm idle and got that perfect. I'll start over again this morning. One thing I did notice...on the throttle band.. the arm that goes from the Idle speed contnrol actuator to the band is not tight. There is a bolt that goes through the center with a flap over it to prevent it from loosening but there is play with that band. Should this be there ? Thank you for getting back to me
I think there is some play in mine too. And that nut with the flap over it is very important. Mine fell off on a ride and it would not idle down all the way after that as the mechanism got jammed in there, so make sure it is not going to fall off on its own, but otherwise leave it be. If that nut is tightened too much the throttle sticks in its movement (learned that too). If the warm idle seems to be ok, then try backing out your cold idle screw until it runs around 1100 or 1200 when the bike is cold, and see if it slows to around 1000 when the bike is warmed up.
Ok I have a question. If you have the butterflys closed, what does it matter where the TPS is? What does that specific voltage have to do with the position of the butterflys?
I checked my 2001 FLHRI and the TPS voltage was at .875 from factory. This is confusing to me with such a difference in voltage.
Great video and explanation.
Thanks,
Mike
YES!!! Thank you!
You saved me having to scramble finding a new TPS!!!
You're welcome, Miles!
Excellent video!! I have a 99 Road King Police that wants to stall when warm - engine light comes on - sometimes hard to start when warm. Will try this procedure before anything else.
Here's to you fixing the problem, William!
thanks for doing the multimeter video helped a lot ....
What engine is this procedure for? Does it matter what performance add-ons anyone has installed? What's puzzling me are my initial voltage readings (before touching the screws on the TPS/ left side) which are much higher than .275. My engine is a 97 1340 evo with only a KnN style filter and aftermarket slipons (with baffles). There are slight surges while cruising at speeds and I'm getting some popping when shifting in between gears and on deceleration. Not too bad but, it is popping. I was told that this bike may already have a Stage 1 tune programmed in it. How could I find out? Would this affect the initial voltage readings? Cold idle runs about 1500 and when completely warmed up (sitting in traffic), about 950 so, I think I have the idles set properly.
Thanks again, this is very good information, and thanks for the inputs!
Gary Mckay Hello Gary, my bike is a 97 with a 1340, K&N air filter, and aftermarket slipons, so we are very similar there. Your cold idle and warm idle sound like they are in the ballpark for where they should be.
What is the voltage on the TPS wire for you? Also note, the cold and warm idle screws have to be backed out enough so they no longer touch anything to hold the throttle plates open at all. In other words, the throttle plates need to be completely closed for this measurement. If you do back off both screws, count the number of turns so that you can turn them back in the same amount and have them back to their original idle settings for both. If you turn them out 7 turns, turn them back in 7 turns when you are done. See what I mean?
I have added a fuel injection controller (Dobeck Gen 3) to mine to help tweak the fuel mixture. I have found that if I add too much fuel with the controller that mine will pop on deceleration. I do not know how you can tell if someone has flashed your bike to a Stage 1 setting. If you can find someone with an exhaust analyzer that might be a way to tell where your bike is in terms of air to fuel ratio (lean or rich) How are the plugs? White is lean, brown is good, black is rich.
Awesome thanks helped me alot couldn't get this thing to idle
Great video what is your multi meter?
set on?
Multimeter set to Millivolts DC.
Oh it was only sputtering on the road but now it’s started to do it in neutral sitting here
Thanks Mark for this great video! The gas consumption was extremly high at 98 Electra Glide. I followed your process, set the sensor to .275V then unplugged the 5&15A fuses for a while. After a test ride of 20 miles I recognized that the engine behaviour improved a lot (spark plugs are nice brown). The only strange thing that the warm idle screw does not change the idle when the engine is warmed up. The idle reacts only for cold idle screw.
Do you have any suggestion what can be be wrong? Thanks in advance
I'm thinking you are turning the correct screw, inwards as a clockwise direction. If it isn't raising the idle speed perhaps something loosened or came off the butterfly shaft end that the hot idle screw is supposed to contact. You may need to remove enough of the air cleaner to get a visual on what's going on.
@@contact4mwy7 Thanks Man! I will figure what is the problem! Cheers!
Went through this procedure since I've been having some stability issues with the system. Great tutorial but I just cannot drop my initial volt lower than 29.7mv tried everything that's as low as I can get it no matter how much time I take
Can you tell my why it gave you this trouble initially? I'm glad it seems you cured it after all!!
Thanks for the video. My brother had some low rpm issues, tried your suggestions and the bike is fixed :)
Excellent! Glad to hear it.
Great information and hopefully I can put it too good use and save some money also.
+Peter James Thanks for watching and good luck with yours, Peter!
The adjustments you outlined made my bike run much better when its warmed up but when the bike is cold it high idles at 2000 rpm for 3 to 4 minutes, even if its only been off for 30 min and the bikes still warm. Anything less than about 30 minutes seems fine. I'm thinking the temp sensor, just wanting to know if you've heard of anything similar.
I haven't heard of anything similar. I would check the setting of the cold idle screw. If it's set too high it will idle high until the temp sensor says the engine is at operating temperature. Try backing it out a turn or two.
@@contact4mwy7 Thanks Mark.
What do you have your multimeter set on? Ohms or voltage?
Voltage. DC Voltage down to a millivolt. Point 250 is equal to 1/4 volt DC.
Hi Mark, thanks for sharing your vid. I´ve buyed a 98 RK here in Germany in 2017. At Decel the Exhaust fired like a Machine Gun, so i guessed that it runs to lean. I set the TPS at 0.275 as recommended an now it is definitely better, but after correcting TPS Setting and cold idle, I have a Problem with the warm idle now.
I have no chance to get the Idle below around 1000-1100 RPM (Measuring by Ears), even with completely turned out warm idle screw. Is that correct?. I know that 1000 rpm is recommended, but with the old setting (below 0.200V) I could get the warm idle a way lower (Guess around 850-900rpm) . The Bike does not sounded like a Shovel, but it doesn`t sound that nervous at idle like it does know.
Today i´ve taken a look at the German Workshop Manual (FLT 95-96!) and I found TPS volt spec of 0.175 Volt???
Seems that the 0.175 Volt is not only a spec for the Twin Cam Models with MM. Maybe the European Models where tuned a way leaner than the US Models!?
Do you ever heard about that issue with the warm idle and is there a way to fix it? With setting at 0.275 it runs really healthy and powerful, so I don´t want to change it, but the high idle drives me crazy.
Thanks for help.
Regards from Germany
Marc
Marc from Germany! You're English is better than my German! Is it true that the bike idles better at 0.275? I was a little confused about the Shovel comment as to if you meant it is idling rough. As for the high idle. What rpm does the motor idle when first start cold? Does the idle slowly fall on its own as the bike warms up? The decel exhaust popping is most likely from the bike running lean. A fuel tuner for Harley twins would be used to richen the fuel mix at lower rpm to cure that. You could richen the upper room points too. Right now I'm trying to get a feel for what your bike is doing. Let me know your answers. Thank you.
Also, make sure you have free play in the throttle at idle. If the cable is not adjusted right it could be holding your butterflies open just a bit, raising the idle. I'm wondering if your cold idle system is staying active and not letting the bike idle down like it should. You said you backed out the warm idle screw completely, can you also try to back out the cold idle screw? It's not going to be easy with the bike running. Shut it off, turn the cold idle screw out a turn, start it back up. Has the idle dropped now?
@@contact4mwy7 Hi and thanks for your fast answer. I need some days without the bike, otherwise it would drive me crazy.
Now I checked the freeplay at the throttlecable..they were fine. In next step I reduced the voltage at cold idle from .650 to .600. After cold start the idle will now drop faster to a normal idle than with .650.
When it is completely warmed up the idle will stay maybe at around 1.000 rpm, with backed out warm idle screw. Unfortunetely I don`t have a rev counter. Bike runs good, strong and powerful, and the idle is not rough. I just had the feel, that the idle should be lower with turned out idle screw. Now I ´ve seen your vid, introducing the Bassani Slip Ons. Is that the warm idle speed of your bike? When it is, I guess that I don´t have a problem and it´s all fine. Because mine sounds like that in warm idle, maybe a way lower than yours.
There ist just a simple reason why I trying to drop the idle a way lower than the recommended 1.000 - 1.100 rpm. If you put on street legal Exhaust for European Market (Very different to US) your Harley sound like a city scooter. I don´t like that super loud exhausts, but I use slip ons that make your Harley sound like it should. But if you have to stop at a traffic light beside a Police Car, you will wish that your engine would be a way quiter, otherwise you have a good chance to wait for the tow truck.
With around 850-900 rpm you get less attention. Simple, but it works.
@@1974marwin I understand now why you prefer to go lower. If everything is working normal you should be able to drop it down quite a bit lower until it just doesn't want to idle. Here is another question, there are two screws above the intake openings. They are air screws set from the factory and then epoxy is added to prevent them from moving. Do they look like someone has turned them, like the epoxy has been picked away?
@@contact4mwy7 the epoxy is still there. Today ist is a warm day and dry. I will take mit out for a short testride now.
I don't touch the fast idle screw or ISCM, I just take the fast idle control arm completely off, that way I don't have to risk a comeback on the cold idle speed adjustment. I read the voltage on the TPS prior to turning out the hot idle screw, so I can put it back to the exact same position it was before by adding how much voltage I changed the TPS setting to the old hot idle voltage, and that's where I put the hot idle screw back to afterwards.
Sounds like you have it under control, Patrick. I wonder if it runs better after the adjustment if the idle comes up a bit when hot and you might actually have to back it off a little. We'll see. I hope it runs better afterwards. Is this an EVO or Twin Cam 88?
@@contact4mwy7 The idle speed adjustments came out very close to correct, the problem I often found that if I made a significant change in the TPS value, the ECM no longer recognized that the throttle was closed, and it changed the ignition timing on me, so as I was trying to dial in the hot idle, it would bounce back and forth between 800 rpm and 1200 rpm... I had to disconnect the battery for a few hours so the ECM would forget the throttle closed reading, and have to relearn it's new value... Then I could set it to 950 rpm. I set evolutions and twin cams the same way.
This worked great for my 1999 HD Touring Twin Cam, the other voltage suggested in the link caused popping and backfire issues.
Very good to know! The other voltage is new to me and you are the second twin cammer to tell me that the original voltage was better. Thank you!
I need help please!!!
Hi Mark, I'm a Harley Newbie with an oldie but a goodie. This week has been some of the hottest outdoor riding temps my 1997 Elctra-Glide Ultra FI has seen. After about a half hour, my in traffic oil pressure dropped to between 1 and 3 multiple times at red lights and thinking it's an warm idle issue, as she's idling at 700rpm. As soon as I blip the throttle/accelerate, I'm back to the 20s. I'll be raising the idle to 900-1000... do I need to go through the initial steps of the cold idle TPS voltage checks to get to the warm idle adjustment or can I jump right to that? Thanks so much!
What setting on the multimeter were you using?
Millivolts DC, Galen. You need to be able to measure down to 1/4 of 1 volt DC, 0.250
Excellent video, thank you.
Great video. Set mine like you did but I'm getting a chirping noise out of the throttle body on my rear cylinder. It has been doing this since I bought the bike. Bad injector? Any advice would be much appreciated.
Eric S Eric, I don't have an answer for you on the chirping from the rear cylinder. I once had a chirping noise, like the sound of a bird, coming from the tube with the rubber cap as shown in the video. The rubber cap had deteriorated and there was a hole in it. At certain throttle positions the air going through that tube would 'chirp.' If you find out what it is, let us know!
Will do thanks. I'm going to swap injectors to see if it moves it to the front cylinder
It’s back on now, I won’t be taking it back to the shop that took my dfo off , they didn’t know what they were doing and never even asked me. I’m wondering if the work they did fixing my fuel system failed??? I better get a pressure test done and start there don’t you think
If you can get a pressure or flow test safely, that might be a good check.
what do you set the multimeter on to get the correct setting
As for the multi meter, you need to have one that will read DC volts in MILLIvolts. As the numbers go from the decimal point, 10th, hundredth, thousandths. That is why the reading is 0.275 volts DC on the display. One volt DC would show as 1.000 and a half a volt DC would show as 0.500. Here is a video of the multimeter I used: th-cam.com/video/SSi6kIp_Vrg/w-d-xo.html
like u r video and in the tachometer in what position do u have it set up in . thanks
have a question don't know in what position you have the tachometer. thanks for the help
Hello. Do the two screws above the flaps need to be tightened or do they also need to be adjusted?
If you're asking about the two screws above the intake butterflies, they are "air screws" set from the factory. I've heard it's best to leave them alone.
My bike is this exact engine and intake. It died randomly and was not starting. I changed the temperature sensor and it ran great for 2 days..it has now stopped running any where past idle. I cleaned all parts i could without removing the intake itself. I'll head to get a meter and try this. Will let you know what i find. Thank you for the video
Well..i did this and i have other issues i guess. Idles great..hit the throttle and it dies at 1900rpm
Any suggestions lol
I would connect the meter and rotate the throttle. Watch the meter to see if the voltage through it increases as it should or is jumping around or stop changing at a certain point. Other than throttle, the only other thing I can think of that would have an affect is the crankshaft position sensor, which is located at the front of the engine, left side. Temperature sensor shouldn't cause it to die out at a certain rpm. Let me know what you find out.
@@contact4mwy7 i have removed the tank and fuel pump... my plastic bendy straw was leaking in a pin hole... but...i did notice my electriconics were out of calibration and now knowing how to set it i can actually use my turner to see better results when this is fixed.
Voltage was not jumpy in unit just to let you know. Thank you again
What's up brother? Great video. Hey, I was wondering, what is the name of the hinge looking thing over the rotating band? I am missing on my bike and I am thinking that's my problem. It looks like it came off the bike and I didn't notice it until now. My bike is giving problems. Please advise as I am in need of this part. Thank you.
Are you asking about the cold idle arm? The stainless steel piece that is mounted to the throttle plate shaft, and is moved by the electric motor with a rubber boot on it. The nut on the shaft loosened up on me on a ride once and caused the bike to run at a high idle when the parts started falling off. I lost the original nut, but put on a replacement with thread locker to help prevent it from happening again. Perhaps you can find a used throttle body online and scavenge the parts from there? Without this arm the bike cannot control the cold idle to a higher rpm for the bike to run good until it warms up. Is your bike having trouble idling when you cold start it?
Hello. I have a 1998 ultra classic. My voltage reads 12v. I have done everything you said. When I adjust the ics it will either say 12 v or 0 v. Mine will not show the .275.
Either your meter is not set to the proper setting or is incapable of reading less than a volt.
Sorry I didn't see this soon, but as Sam said, you may need to use a different meter that can measure below 1 volt DC.
I like your video a lot ! but if u had a tuner Do u still have set the TPS I though the tuner would do it automatic ! thank !
Setting the TPS is only if the bike is not running well, or if someone moved it at all (like me). If the bike runs good with no check engine light, leave it where it is. The tuner helped with the air filter and exhaust changes I made. I hope this helps you.
@@contact4mwy7 Yes ! it did ! My 98 ultra does back fire a little when I deaccelarate ! Is this bad and does it hurt the engine ! it has done it for a long time ! But I still get 50 mpg ! I though it was cool when it back fire ! It has stage one on it ! and I had to change out one oxygen sensor Dealership did that ! U would though they would have done both ! got around 60000 on it and enjoy it very much ! I know a lot of people don't like the MM FUEL INJECTION but my seem to being all right ! My concern now r the fuel line in the fuel tank ! I do burn no ethanol gas ! They said those line get little pin hole in them ! Your though ? thank u so much 4 your time and KNOWLEDGE ! I am glad that I found u !
@@waynejohnson3383 the backfiring out the exhaust could be due to fuel air ratio mix. Best way to tell is pull the plugs and see what color the end of the plug is. White-chalk-like points to too lean. Black-soot-like points to too rich. Anything in between is generally good. I had no real issues with my MM fuel injection. The sensor they changed was likely the head temperature sensor as the MM system on Harley's didn't use O2 sensors. It was what is dubbed an Open Loop System where there is no follow-up by O2 sensors to read if the fuel mix really was correct based on the TPS, head temperature, air temperature, and atmospheric pressure. I replaced the fuel lines on the outside of the tank, and the fuel pump and filter inside the tank (I have a video of as well), and even though I have heard of pinholes in the internal fuel lines I did not see any evidence of it. 50 mpg is in the same ballpark as what I was getting, even with the fuel injection tuners I installed.
Would you have any of this info possibly pertain to a 2007 heritage softail as well? Buddy's bike has got some goofy conditions and was wondering if we could do something like this as well to his, just to make sure. Thanks! Great video!
Jess, I do not have any info on the Delphi fuel injection system yet. I recently traded in my '97 for an '09, so in time I might look into what makes it tick as well. Thank you for the comments, I appreciate it.
Thanks for the reply! Looking further into it there is a recall for his bike where the battery's positive terminal can make contact with the oil reservoir! His conditions would match such a situation, thanks again!
Good to know, Jess. Hopefully others will see your post if they know of a similar situation!
Hi, Great video and info,
Have a question, Can the cold and warm idle settings be set without resetting the Throttle Position Sensor? I messed with mine awhile back and need to put it back to the way it was,engine temp sensor went out and thats why I messed with the idle settings. Thanks bob.
Hello Bob, I would have to say 'yes' to that question. Like I said in the video, if you don't have to loosen the screws to the Throttle Position Sensor, don't! Lets assume that it has not been touched since the factory assembled it and it is still accurate. Start with the bike off, unplug the Cold Idle controller, turn the bike on and measure the voltage using the pin as shown in the video. If you are reading 'less' than 0.650 volts DC at the pin, turn the adjustment screw 'in' until it rises to that number. If it is more than that voltage, do the opposite. As for the Warm Idle adjustment, that is done by listening to the motor while running all warmed up. Let me know how this worked out for you.
Hi, before I start had another ? . My meter will only measure 0.65 Yours reads 0.650 would it make much of a difference if any. Thanks Bob. P.S. I have a low cost digital meter
Robert Denniston Bob, since you are just adjusting the cold idle and not the throttle position sensor itself, I would say that using your meter for the cold idle setting should be close enough as it is much more forgiving on its setting than the throttle position sensor which should be dialed in to the 0.275 as it shows. If your meter shows 0.65 and it is actually 0.656, I doubt you will notice the difference on starting and cold idle speed. Go for it!
Hey Mark, love the video. Looking into starting this process on my 00 road king. Is this process the same for twin cams as well as an evo? Thank you
Also.. did you do all of this with the engine warm?
@@DJDooxx Engine cold. Before you switch on the power, disconnect the cold idle motor harness. I have read there are two different settings, one for EVO (this bike) and one for Twin Cams. I believe I put that information in the description info. Edit: I just read in the description that the cold idle setting may be different for the two. Not the main setting. EVO cold idle 0.620-0.650, TWIN CAM cold idle 0.650-0.680, I would recommend starting at 0.650 for your cold idle setting and readjust if necessary.
Thank you very much
I am mostly looking to bring my warm idle down a bit. Just cleaned out throttle body. Idling a little high. I should just be able to adjust warm idle with that one screw right? Thank you for your help
@@DJDooxx Yes, turn that one screw counter-clockwise until the idle comes down to where you want it to be, while engine is hot. If that screw doesn't lower the idle as it should, your cold idle screw may be holding it from going any lower?
do you know if this works when exhaust and air cleaner have been upgraded. just slip ons and k and n filter.
thanks for all the info sure saved me a lot of $$$ bike is running great and i've never been happier ... thanks again!!!
Jeff Ellis That's awesome, Jeff. Safe travels!
Mark, is it possible to adjust the warm idle without going through the re calibration process?
Yes. The warm idle screw can be adjusted without any probes hooked up at all. If I remember correctly, right around 1,000 rpm is recommended to keep a good charge on the battery and feed the electronics, etc. So adjust away!
Yes Wow, thanks for a helpful video, and taking the time
Thank you for sharing. This video made my day 😁🥳.. love you.🛵
thank you for making and showing showing this video ...
Where was the black probe of the multimeter hooked up to during this procedure?
From the COM port on the multimeter to a good ground spot on the bike.
Mark,I've reached out to you before about my 1998 harley-davidson Road king classic. It's been running great . Today I went on like a 4 hour ride and near the end of the ride I hit a spot in the highway where they had base asphalt but hadn't put the surface asphalt in yet. I hit this 2" drop going 60 mph. After that the bike started surging and died at the stoplight. I limped home with it and thought about the throttle position sensor. I got to the tps and found one of the screws to the tps was already loose. I did your procedure for the tps . Trying to get to .275 but was getting readings over 1 and then .24. It it possible that the tps is bad?
I wouldn't say it was bad just yet. Maybe when the screw(s) was/were loose it rotated just a bit. They are very sensitive as you may have seen on your multimeter. See if you can get it to 0.275 and try it out. Coat the outer edge of the screw heads with clear fingernail polish to help keep it from loosening on its own.
@@contact4mwy7 Thank you,Mark
mark, very informative videos on magneti marelli efi, i need to know if its possible for the tpi to be at .133 reading and the epoxy is still in adjustment screws. could it have moved on its own. didnt want to touch till i asked ya, thanks bro, rich 1998 road king flhrci magneti marelli. keep the video's comming
+richard hinton Richard, ask yourself how the bike is starting and running. It could be that the internals of the TPS are getting a bit "sloppy" with age, turning back and forth on the end of the throttle shaft, causing your seemingly low reading. I'm going to guess the check engine has not been blinking on you. When I was experimenting with my TPS, I turned it to the point that the check engine light came on under heavy throttle. That's why I researched this procedure and had to do it to my bike. That being said, my bike is one year older than yours, and with these settings the thing runs buttery smooth, never hickups, pulls strong, and gets great gas mileage that makes the others that ride with me jealous to boot. Like the saying goes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But if it were me, I'd lay awake at night wondering if it could run even better than it does now if it were adjusted to what I believe to be the "correct" settings. So far, according to the comments, everyone who has done this has had positive results. I'd hate for you to be the first 'negative.' Up to you, keep me posted on what you decide. I'm just a guy, not a mechanic, that isn't afraid to experiment and tinker with stuff.
Hi, Thanks for the video. Since you know the magneti and marelli system, I'm hoping you can answer a question of mine. Having fuel issues, replace my fuel pump , filter and tubing and a leaky quick connect. Still will not even try to start. I pulled my fuel assembly up just enough that my pump syphon was still in fuel, activated my pump to check for tubing leaks. No leaks but I noticed my fuel return line just pumped a solid stream of fuel back when I activated the pump. I was wondering if you know anything about the regulator preceding the fuel return line? Thanks, John.
Hello John, I am familiar with the location of the fuel pressure regulator atop the intake manifold. To be sure this is a fueling issue, have you tried pulling the plugs and checking for spark? Can you carefully spray something flammable into the intake, such as WD-40 or starter fluid, and then turning over to see if it makes the engine tries to run?
@@contact4mwy7 Thanks for the reply Mark. I do have spark, It will try to run when I add fuel to the intake. Kind of been scratching my head with this. I don't have a scanalyzer to hook up, was thinking maybe the injectors aren't firing or fuel.
@@mopardeer if it fires from an added source, then fuel would seem to be the problem. Did this start out as replacing a leaky fuel line coupling under the tank? Are you 100% on the routing of the tubing (didn't connect up backwards for instance)? Can you hear the fuel pump run when you first power up the bike?
@@contact4mwy7 I started with fuel pump not running. It's a 2000 road king, 22000 miles, original pump failed and in pretty rough condition, lots of debris in tank. Replaced filter and pump cleaned out tank and now I can hear the pump run and shut off when I turn my ignition on. Still didn't start. I disconnected the quick connect leaving the tank cause I heard of it failing and not allowing fuel out. Well, it was original equipment also and leaked when reconnected. I got a new quick connect fitting which came with new tubing which hooked to the filter discharge in tank. I'm pretty sure I got the tubing all correct. Checked fuses numerous times, heard the flow in the tank, found out it was the return line and was just curious of the flow back. When I turn on the ignition, pump runs and a constant stream flows into the tank till pump shuts off. I haven't found an easy way to verify fuel pressure to injectors, don't have an in line gauge. You're probably sorry you replied to me........sorry, haha. I set it aside few weeks ago, figured I'd think on it before tearing more apart.
@@mopardeer I'm curious why it's not firing up too. When you can safely introduce another fuel source that might shed some light on it. Were the plugs wet with gas or dry as a bone?
Well I've noticed a significant difference in power but still get some popping and backfiring on deceleration... also the idle seems a bit low until it warms up...at what point should I just bring it in and get it tuned ????
Jeff Ellis It does sound like it's running a bit lean if it is idling low until it warms up and pops on deceleration. I would take it to a reputable shop and ask what they suggest. I put a fuel injection tuner on mine to take care of it running lean.
Thanks for a great video, I followed your suggestions and I'm having an issue with a chirp that lowers the RPM. Any suggestions on how to fix would be appreciated.
I could hear a chirp sound from mine. It was a vacuum leak from a cracked rubber cap. I point out the location in the video, Frankie, did you see that? If it's not that I would look into checking the intake gaskets. Does it sometimes backfire at idle, skip on one cylinder kind of thing? Does it run better when the throttle is opened more, which would mean less influence from a vacuum leak. Sucking in more air than what the computer thinks is going in will lean the fuel mixture and make it run crappy the more the throttle is closed. Check your spark plugs after it idles for a while, you can let it cool off before pulling them, and see if one is lighter than the other. That might be the side that has an intake vacuum leak?
@@contact4mwy7 thanks Mark I'll check that out today. My problem where I live is nobody knows how to work on this system anymore.
Unfortunately that's becoming a common theme.
@@contact4mwy7 i have a1996 ultra when i give it throttle at 65 mph it will miss could i fix this with what you did appreciate your help also cold idle is to low
@@lisagodin6380 you can turn the cold idle stop screw in a quarter turn at a time until you bring the cold idle up to where you want it, typically around 1,100 to 1,200 rpm. Does your bike have fuel injection for sure? Have you changed the air filter or box to an aftermarket? Is the exhaust aftermarket?
Don't you have to remove the two fuses at the ECM after these adjustments are made and plug them back in after a couple minutes?
+Michael Walsh Yes, Michael, thanks! I was not aware of this step when I made the video, but it does say in the shop manual instructions, that I put a link to above, that both fuses should be pulled for at least one minute. I have now added that to the video as a Note.
What is your multi meter ranged too? Also i rotated the tps and could not get .275 ..the most i could get rotating the tps was .050 and like .080 when rotating throttle..so i tried ranging my meter different to Mili amps and still no where near your .275 mark..i also couldn't get fast idle to .650 either
@@garyharriss5322 The multimeter is set to millivolts, that way it can measure less than 1 volt DC, which is what these settings are. Make sure you are probing the correct wire and have a good ground, and that your battery is fully charged.
I do not see where you identify the engine temperature for this procedure. Is the engine cold, warm or hot...?
great video, have a 98 ultra glide, all of a sudden the engine light comes on and off inertmittently, sometimes when I throttle up or down, or shift thru gears, checked code by turning on and off ignition and got # 11, which is tps, is that easily replaced by unscrewing the replacing, then calibrate the way you describe, or is it more than that?
Don S
LilOsideSmitty My best guess is that once you remove your old TPS and install the new one, using these settings, you should be good to go with no more check engine light. As I stated in the video, I "guessed" the setting trying to trick it into thinking it should add more fuel (as I had seen done on a snowmobile) but that just led to intermittent check engine light similar to what you describe. I don't believe there is a way to "guess" the TPS setting, it is just too sensitive. Very little movement one way or the other leads to a big difference in voltage reading. Good luck, and let me know how it turns out!
I don’t know what setting on the multimeter to measure, volts right ? Mine either registers
on 200 mv = 27.5, or if I put the meter on 2v , it registers .0275, also when I adjust the fast idle screw it will only read .046 with the screw all the way in
It's measured in DC volts. Millivolts. 275 is the number you need for the throttle position sensor. 0.275 is just over a quarter volt. As for the cold idle screw (fast idle), adjust that when you're done to a comfortable high idle, and make sure it idles down to the warm idle screw position.
What rubber vacuum cap did you check and replace?
James, there is a rubber cap on a short metal pipe sticking up on the top of the carburetor body. You can see it is black in the video, and on the other side from the cold idle motor mechanism. It's about a 1 inch long rubber 'sleeve' that slides down over the metal tube. I think the metal tube was used as a vacuum for another system, possibly to do with emissions? The speech bubble has a little arrow at the bottom of it, kinda hard to see, that is pointing directly to the top of it. My bike made a kind of 'bird chirping noise' at low rpm down the road which I later found out was coming from the hole in the original rubber. I hope this helps!
Regards, Thank you very much for the explanation
What do you set the multimeter on ? Is it on volts ??
@@fgrann MILLIvolts. As the numbers go from the decimal point, 10th, hundredth, thousandths. That is why the reading is 0.275 volts DC on the display. One volt DC would show as 1.000 and a half a volt DC would show as 0.500. Here is a video of the multimeter I used: th-cam.com/video/SSi6kIp_Vrg/w-d-xo.html
@@contact4mwy7 Thank's alot 😃👍🏻
Can I test my TPS in a similar fashion?
2001RK police, Magnetti Marelli efi , stage 1 w/Rev-Tech dfo.
Started having low fuel mileage, then hesitation at 3200rpm , I replaced the fuel pressure regulator, mileage improved some but the hesitation didn’t go away then I took it to have it Dyno tune never made a hiccup all the way to the shop ran great when I left there filled with gas and everything went to hell. Took it to a different shop to repair a broken fuel line in the tank, but they took my dfo off the bike. The guy the dino tuned it said not to run out with that off the bike that it would run to lean.
150 miles back to the Dino tuner the bike ran great all the way home the next day it started coughing and hiccuping stumbling around 2800 RPM then later at 30200-3400. I have a new battery new plugs new plug wires checked all the ground connections look for broken wires bad fuses anything that might cause an intermittent problem. So I’m down to the TPS and before I remove it and replace it I would like to test it through the full range of the throttle, Can I test the ohms and look for internal problems?
Wow, that's a lot of troubleshooting, Dan. I would say yes, you can check the TPS using this method with the bike turned on but not running. Remember, this is an "Open Loop System" which means the fuel system has sensors in place for engine temperature, barometric pressure, air temperature, and throttle position. It doesn't have O2 sensors to "check the end results of the fuel to air ratio" from the exhaust. I'm not familiar with the Rev Tech DFO, so I'll have to look that one up. Low fuel mileage sounds like it must be running rich. We're the plugs charcoal black when you pulled them? Does this stumble happen when it's on the Dyno? Does it happen with the bike in neutral just rotating the throttle? I ask because I have to wonder if it's running too rich in the upper rpm's causing your stumble as I have found that is a possibility. Other than that you have the engine temperature sensor, air temperature sensor, ignition module, barometric pressure sensor, and fuel injectors as possible culprits too. How hard is it to remove this Rev Tech and go for a short ride, nothing to crazy, to see if the stumble is still there? I have to refresh my memory if the your twin cam has a crankshaft position sensor mounted on the front of the engine case or if that's just the newer motors? Have you verified that the rubber plug on the intake manifold above the butterflies is not cracked and leaking vacuum air? Mine was cracked and made a chirping sound from the vacuum leak. I bought a new rubber plug at the auto parts store and slipped it onto the metal vacuum port. No more vacuum leak.
Second reply: Dan, I looked the RevTech up and it is very similar, if not identical, to the Dobeck Performance TFI unit that I had used on my bike! In this video you can see me making adjustments to the GREEN ZONE (general cruising) and somewhat adjusting the RED ZONE (upper RPM's adjustment). In the video description, I posted this... UPDATE: After going through a few tanks of gas, I have settled onto the settings of 3:00, 6:00, 4:00, 4:00, as though you were looking at the hour hand of a clock, just as Dobeck recommended. They must have spent a fair amount of dyno research to come up with these settings.
So I have to ask you, what are the settings of your RevTech? What numbers are each dial pointing to? Dobeck advised thinking of the numbers as the hour hand on a clock. 1:00, 2:00, 3:00, etc. Here is my video, and if you search Dobeck Performance TFI on youtube you will find other videos as well showing the tuning of this unit. th-cam.com/video/X1a9kBx_Lb4/w-d-xo.html As far as unhooking it, I believe this is a "fuel adding device" only, which means if you back off all of the pointers to the 1:00 position they will not be adding any fuel over the stock fuel map, effectively taking the unit out of the equation. Again, my favorite settings for my 1997 Road King EVO was with the pointers at 3:00, 6:00, 4:00, 4:00 from left to right.
Third reply: Here is a link to a cached version of the Dobeck Performance TFI unit instructions for a Yamaha Raider/Roadliner/Stratoliner bike, but does not specify settings for those bikes, just how to dial the unit in. Transfer this advise to your RevTech unit to get a better understanding of what is going on when tuning. webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RC0EDFPVe70J:www.tficontrollers.com/instructions/950142052.pdf+&cd=11&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Thanks Mark!
Rookie question...but what do I set this multi meter at? I've only used one a handful of times
@@Jrmobileweldingservices set it to the lowest DC setting. You will be trying to measure less than 1 volt DC, to the thousandths of a volt.
@contact4mwy7 I figured it out. But thanks for the response. And this video helped BIG time. Much appreciation
Mark,are the .275 and the.650 numbers set in stone? Or can you adjust to not run lean.I heard that factory settings are on the lean side. The reason I ask is my 1998 Magnetti Marrelli Road King Classic runs great at those settings ,but when I hit the throttle hard it will miss a little. As long as I'm just cruising along it runs fine. Any suggestions you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Again
The 0.650 setting is a general setting for cold idle only. The 0.275 setting is the base setting for the whole fuel injection system. It is a reference for both amount of fuel to inject and the ignition timing. You can experiment with higher settings to see if you can get an improved result without pinging or a check engine light. I used a piggyback fuel injection controller (Dobeck type, Techlusion) on my Road King to add just a little more fuel.
@contact4mwy7 I appreciate the information, thank you
Hey Mark, just this summer my '01 Road King seems to have lost it's cold idle, and the warm idle seems to be slower than it was, although, otherwise, the bike still runs great. I checked the cold idle motor yesterday, on a cold start, and probably within 5-10 seconds or so, it starts to retract, dropping the fast idle right down. Is that normal? It is summer, and it sits in a pretty warm (sometimes hot) garage, but last summer it did seem to hold the fast idle longer. Just wondering if maybe the ecu is getting a false signal for the air temp, or cyl head temp sensor saying she's already warmed up? Thoughts? Maybe something else?
My first though, as this was happening to me, is that both the cold idle and warm idle screws are backing themselves out. I had to readjust both even after resetting the throttle position sensor had them set correctly. As you said, after a Summer or two, both seemed to be lower than normal. The last time I set them I backed them out to put blue loctite on the threads. I traded the bike two months ago, but it was good at that time. I found the cold idle seems to slowly drop as the bike warms up, not a steep change like the newer ones, and as the screw backs out it gives the slow idle motor less travel to gradually work with, so it seems to drop sooner than it should for a cold start. Make sense?
What setting / meter range are you using? Dc voltage? Ohms? I cant seem to get it in range.. it wont show less than 1 volt on either of my meters
The meter is set to Millivolts DC. Not all meters can read that low, you may have to find one that does.
Mark, What do you have your meter set on? TIA...And I had no idea these were so sensitive!
+bryanjh73 I had the meter set to DC Volts, I believe the lowest range it has, probably in millivolts. That's why it would show "OL" meaning Over Load when I would turn the throttle by hand as it went over that settings maximum range, and had I wanted to measure voltage in that higher range instead I would have had to set the meter to a higher DC Volt range. These meter testers can be found if you look around enough, and yes, the TPS setting is very sensitive!
+Mark Young +-I didnt pay attention on the cold warm idle screw when turning it out. Do you know where it should be if I started with it all the way in? I tried it with the settings you suggest. And it is sputtering. Would this be from the warm idle screw being too far in or out? Or any other suggestions would be great, Thanks again!
The cold idle screw is set with the cold idle motor unplugged and the DC volts set to 0.650 just as shown in the video. The warm idle screw is to be set once the bike has warmed up and is no longer resting against the cold idle screw motor, with the motor plugged back in of course. If the bike is idling too slow once it warms up then you need to turn the warm idle screw IN until it comes up to around a smooth 1,000 rpm (recommended by Harley for both being easier on the connecting rod bearings and keeping the battery charged at idle). If it will not idle right at all then there is something else going on with the system that is not normal. My bike is set according to these settings and functions normally in all weather conditions, warm or cool. The only setting that is not set by the volt meter is the warm idle. You need to set that on your own. I hope you find where the issue is.
Hello mark when you finished setting the tps did you use lock tite on the screws or just tighten them? I had to redo my tps on my 2001 road king today, noticed the bike was not running correctly I even unplugged my dobek tfi to see if it was that and bike still ran sloppy so when I checked it the tps was way off it was at 350 and the cold idle was 725 so I had to reset the tps and the cold but wanted to make sure if I have to use lock tite on the screws thank u for all the helpful videos
Thanks for asking! I don't remember right now if I used thread locker or a dab of fingernail polish around the head of the screw, but yes, put something on them. I also had to find a replacement nut on the end of the throttle butterfly rod where the cables connect. Fell off. Plus the warm idle and cold idle screws kept creeping so I thread lockered them too. Vibrations galore on those bikes! Glad you have a Dobek fuel tuner, I used two of them and thought they were awesome! Rock on! 👍
Mark Young - Outside The Box funny my screw from that tab fell off when I was riding times I have been thinking switching to a carb I love my bike but not this efi, some people loves them but hopefully this time I can keep it good if not might be investing a carb cv40
@@aircamry I was at that crossroad too before I found the specs and reset my bike. It ran like a top from that day on, especially with either of the Dobek tuners I used. Once you reset everything to where it's supposed to be, maybe you'll have that same reliability and forget about spending money on a carb setup. That being said, I've run bikes with CV carbs too, and they are the next best thing to EFI where they are air density based.
Mark Young - thank you for all the help people like yourself helps out all of us who is trying to figure things out
Hello mark I had the. Ike running great and it starts messing up again my tps is set at 0.275 and my cold 0.650 the bike will idle good and when I ride for some time and then park it for an hour or two at a location the bike will idle really high and stay there and won’t drop, so lucky I had my tolls with me I started to work on it to get the idle correct again, and again the idle dropped this time so far where the bike died couple times the 3 light I had to keep the throttle open at the light so I can get to a safe spot to pull over and check it, I’m not sure what’s going on? So I get home the next day I recheck everything all numbers are good and then start the bike and then. Idle drops so low again and then I added more idle and the bike seems idling ok now should I be looking at something else?
So the meter that you're using is on DC volts?
Correct, DC "millivolts" to the 0.001 of a volt.
What setting do you put your multimeter on?
Voltage..2000m
Sensacional .big Show
I really got a lot out of this tutorial. I have a 2001 Road king with a 95 inch big bore kit. Should the settings be the same with the 95.
+Duane Franklin Well Duane, that is the 100,000 dollar question. I really don't know if the change in cubic inches will need different settings or not. My gut feeling is that this is only metering the air/fuel ratio, not cubic feet of intake or vacuum, so it in theory 'should' be the same settings. How is your bike running? Do you have a fuel programmer module attached to it? I hooked one up on mine even though I don't have drastic changes to the bike's intake and exhaust and it was worth every dollar and minute it took to hook it up. I have 2 videos that cover 2 different systems for that.
+Duane Franklin I did a little more research and found information on a forum that showed different cold idle voltage settings for the 1340 engine (1340 Domestic/HDI 0.61 to 0.64) volts and the 1450 (1450 Domestic/HDI 0.64 to 0.68) volts twin cam engine that came out in 1999. So it would seem for bigger displacement a higher voltage reading is wanted which would in turn open the intake butterflies just a bit more when cold. Warm idle is recommended to be set at around 950-1,050 rpm to go easy on the crank bearings and to keep a good charge to the battery while idling for extended periods. At 1556.77 cubic centimeters (95 inches) bore, you might need to guess a number in the .68 to .72 volt range for an idle that is just above the warm idle 1,050 rpm (say 1,200 rpm) for it to warm up and then drop to the warm idle setting. Maybe?
Hey Mark, Basically out of no where my bike started running really rough near the end of last season caughing and bucking at around 3000 rpm or above. Took the joy out of riding for sure. I decided to do some maintenance during our cold Canadian winter. I changed the internal fuel lines, fuel filter ( needed this anyway, you could hardly blow air through it ), head temp sensor, went over the whole bikes electrical connections, cleaned the throttle body, lots of crud came out of those to holes above the butterflies. All this did nothing and the bike ran the same as last year. I followed this tutorial and voila the bike runs as good as it ever has while I've had it. I used the .275 and .650. I wanted to give you a big THANK YOU!!! I also followed your tutorial for the filter and lines in the tank by the way.😀
Hey Mark, I have the Dobeck controller and again found your tutorial on setting it up really helpful!!! You are the man!!!
Hey Mark, I am using the Dobeck fuel controller and have followed the tutorial you posted on setting it up. I can't thank you enough for the tutorials that you have posted. The Harley techs at the dealerships here eyes glaze over and they run away when you mention Magneti Marelli, haha. With the adjustments to the throttle position sensor my bike idles right at 1000 rpm when it's warmed up. I installed a tach over the winter so now I can tell. Thanks again !!!
Grazie,sei stato molto utile
Mark,what setting is the multimeter on when you set the throttle position sensor?
Well let me know if you ever got that answer. Smdh
@danabarnette7891 The throttle position sensor number is .275 and the cold idle screw is .650. My multimeter was set on 20 volts,it's the next highest number on your multimeter above 12 volts.