GixxerFoo are you sure the 99 to 2002 tc 88 motor had duel timken bearings on the crank ? I thought the timken was on the drive side or left hand side and the right side was a press fit in the case roller bearing.
From 2003 on the Timken was on the right side, and they used a press fit to save money 👎 on the left. Crap in my opinion as the years went on and power increased. But Harley happily charged you an extra 50 bucks on your $2800 dollar kit for a required "lefty bearing". Plus labor.
GixxerFoo ok no worries so are you saying my 2001 dyna wideglide has a timken on the left being the drive side and has a press fit roller on the right side?
Original owner of an ‘02 88 carb Fatboy. Stage one only mod I’ve had for the bike for 30k. Last year inspected both tensioner shoes, they looked 3/4 worn. Went with the upgraded cam plate with better oil pump and hydraulic tensioners. But...from what I remember at that time many years ago, was that there was a recall on those cam bearings!! Certain VIN batch bikes ended up with “defective” bearings that would disintegrate and cause major issues, not the cam tensioners. *Although if the tensioner shoes do wear out, you will have issues as well. So, when I had the new cam plate kit put in, I had both inner and outer bearings replaced, along with replacing the roller lifters since it was being worked on anyways. I ran a stock cam, and expected to replace it with another (since I expected wear on it). But I was told the original cam was perfect... not a wear mark on it. I guess once a year oil changes make a difference. Put about 1.5k since work was done last year, and the stock motor purrs with a slightly cooler oil temp on hot days👍👍 Win for the upgrade and preventative maintenance. Highly recommend the plate with hydro shoes. And definitely replace the bearings (cheap insurance) since your going to be in there anyways. Just my two cents.
I do remember something about a bad run of cam bearings, I don't think it was as well known as the tensioner failures though. A lot of guys that had an early tensioner failure mentioned getting their cam bearings and tensioners replaced under warranty. I know they never recalled the motors for the tensioner failure but they quietly replaced them.
COVID lockdown in 2020 gave me the opportunity to wrench my 2000 FLSTC. I was surprised that at 50K miles the cam chain tensioners were worn but not as bad as anticipated. While torn down I put in S&S 509's, a Feuling cam plate, lifters and high volume oil pump. Also rebuilt the brakes, carburetor and added a new Big Sucker air cleaner. I bought the bike new and the only modifications made then were a jet kit, Kuryakyn air cleaner and a set of Longshots. It has been a dependable ride. I love the traditional look and this old graybeard plans to ride it into the sunset.
That's awesome, those early twin cams have the Timken bottom end so you know it's solid as rock. The tensioners were really hit or miss on those bikes, sounds like you've got one of the good ones though!
Firebearfl I have the 98 flstc and now since my wife passed away I have her 03 lowrider. Never spent much time thinking about different upgrades other than I had the dealership before we even brought it home put Vance an Hines pipes and chrome spoked wheels on it. Nothing is more comfortable than my heritage but I don’t think I will ever sell her bike. But the mid controls suck for me. I didn’t know about the tensioner. Guess I’ll have to do that and forward controls to ride comfortably. Sorry about rant. But I know how you feel about your bike
I upgraded my cam chest at 35k miles on my carbureted 02 Electra Glide and basically used the same components as you. Feuling hydraulic cam plate and tensioner shoes, oil pump and lifters and went with the S&S 510’s. I wanted the power gain at 3k RPM (around 70mph) while freeway cruising. And man do they kick in when passing. I also have no problems keeping up with newer Harley’s. My GL-1800 GoldWing on the other hand, rips down the road. I compare my Harley to an old American made muscle car which just growls and is downright mean. My Wing is like a sleek Porsche. I love them both
I had a TC88 in an 05 Ultra Classic, 90,000+ miles on it,(Purchased new in 05) owned it until this past March when I traded it in for a 2020 FLHT with the M8 107..That TC motor was a screamer, I had SS mild lift cams in it, (No head work) and I went from the chains and tensioners to gear driven cams..it was one of the best Harley engines I have ever owned....Great info and video GixxerFoo....👍
Damn why did you trade it?! The new bikes are awesome but your bike is a seasoned beast! No they definently weren't screamers but they had the down low don't buy expensive grips torque.
@@GixxerFoo Traded it in because I didn't have the funds for a new bike, it was 15 years old with 90,000 miles plus change, I average about 6-7 thousand mile a year, and owned the bike for 15 years, purchased new....Believe me when I say that I am more than happy with the M8 107...I am planning to do the high flow breather, with a tuner, I already have the needed exhaust....The one thing I truly miss on the FLHT is a cigarette lighter (I know) haha.. which I will install when I do the stage one...maybe a little bit down the road I will add a cam...maybe....At my age (65) all I want to do is ride.
Dang you got your money worth out of that bike! Lol l can see why it was time to get yourself a new ride now, l hope you plan on doing the same with your new one!
I bought a used 2000 Electra glide,no one knows anything about it. It had 31,600 miles on it,I added just over 4,000 with no problems. It's in the shop now for a going over and an upgrade in the cam chest if it hasn't been done yet. Thank you for your videos,they gave me great direction,and better understanding of my engine.
1999, TC88 , storytime. I bought my 99 carbureted Road King brand new and still own it. I have 23K miles on it and do all my own work. I have inspected my tensioner shoes at 10K mile intervals and only have about a 1/3 of them worn down right now. They're actually doing very well. I'm preparing to install new Twin Power shoes which, have a longer life span and a much more reasonable cost $40, than a gear drive would cost. My cost is minimal and these shoes will last even longer than my stock shoes would. I love my Road King and the way it rides. You have options and throwing a lot of money at a TC88, doesn't have to be one of them.
You're right and doing your own work makes a huge difference. I dunno if it was a bad run of tensioners or what. Your bike sounds like it's done great and other people had an engine failure before 15k.
Still riding my 2002 RKC purchased in Nov 2001. Replaced the tensioners at 52K with the hydraulic set up and the shifter shaft seal around the same time. 77.5k miles and the rig still humming along like new. Best bike I've owned.
@@GixxerFoo They were done. Worn almost to the metal. Didn't consider a gear drive. Heard to many horror stories. Stuck with what works. I'm that kinna guy.
Bought an '02 FXSTI new in 01, still have it, has the stage 1 conversion, Vance and Hines str8 shot pipes, quick detach sport windshield, quick detach tall sissy bar & luggage rack, only like 23,000 miles on it. Not tagged or insured @ the moment, health issues make me wonder if I should even keep it, but, can't bring myself to sell it. Damn, getting old sucks!
Thanks for this channel. I myself ride a 2000 Harley Davidson Wide Glide Twin cam 88 carburetor, Screamin Eagle exhaust and Arlen Ness air filter giving my ears a musical treat as I cruise the country roads on a sunny summer evening. The main thing in this life is the path, not the destination. Drive, enjoy and go slow.
I love my twin cam. It's basically stock. I do all my own work and just replaced the cam chain tensioners. Also the shift lever is a PITA to replace if it gets loose on the splined shaft. I had to remove the primary to replace it. The best part is that I only paid $6K for a pretty cherry bike. Put another thousand into it and you can't go wrong.
Right on, doing your own work is the way to go! The shift levers always seem to be a problem on the 88, I remember the return springs used to break a lot years ago.
Man I just bought a sweet 06 electra glide classic with 41,000 mile so ill send to my certified Harley mechanic to just know its fine i mean its smooth as silk except for a small vacuum leak on the oem carburetor. Everything is stock with slip on Vance and Hines
Yep, Huge PITA...The front shifter linkage isn't any better . It gets sloppy and floppy. I had to install new bushings and a new shifter shaft. Luckily I didn't have to remove the primary...to get to all of it..
@@GixxerFoo My '99 88a model Ultra's shifter gave me problems. Before I trashed the splines I took some meat out between where shifter clamps down. Fixxed that deal. I thought mine didn't 'lope' because it was the unbalanced engine, didn't know it was because of efi. Tensioners went 110,000 before they wore enough to make noise, embarrasing I let 'em go that far. Cut out pushrods (just couldn't open the top end, nothing wrong with it.) adjustible pushers and new pads is all she got. 160,000 on it now, bone stock. "cept got cam bearing recall without trashing bearings. Had to fail before Harley would touch em. A screw on the stator backed out and the noise it made sounded like it came from cam side. Free upgrade + $100 for tightening screw, lol. Been a dependable bike. Ok, let me write a book. The cams had huge chunks of metal missing, forging irregularities, but not where lifters rode, so ya, they're still in there too. It was a factory demo bike with 9900 miles when I bought it for $17,500. Always did my own work, rode my 62 FLH 27 years before this bike.
I have a 2004 FLHTCUI that I converted to 95 cu in. (with the SE kit) around 2010. It had about 50k miles on it then and the cam chain tensioners were worn out. When doing the work to it I also changed out the tensioners to the SE kit with HD oil pump. I have about 81k miles on it now and it runs like a top. I didn't know about checking the runout on the pinion shaft when I did the work to it (I do all my own wrenching and have for over 50 years) but chose not to use the gear drive system because of the excessive noise. Your articles are very informative and easy to understand. Thanks for producing them.
I bought a 2001 TC88 Road King new, and still have it with about 57K miles. Very reliable ride. Shortly after I got it I had the 95" kit installed by the dealer, but with SE-204 cams. I did some carburetor modification and tuning myself, and installed Hooker tuned flow slip-on mufflers (no longer on, or available). I later added a Dyna-jet tuner/ignition., and 10mm plug wires. At about 40K the cam chain shoes were worn about 2/3 down, so I upgraded to the SE hydraulic tensioner/oil pump. I had manual compression releases installed at the same time, because the engine would kick back against the starter during restarts when the engine was hot. Cured. Recently I replaced the rear air shocks with Progressive 444HD shocks. (big improvement over the 19 year old air shocks-duh) ** I think that light upgrade will be next, followed by a new seat. The original vinyl seat is starting to crack.
I love hearing about bikes that stay around a while, that's the beauty of a Harley is being able to keep it like that. Sounds like you've got it all updated and reliable as any new bike out there!
@@GixxerFoo Now has Progressive front cartridge replacements in front fork tubes, Mustang seat with back-rest and LED head/passing lights, and head breather so no more oily air into carburetor. Looking at an oil cooler next.
Mine went 5000 before the motor let loose but I think there was a cam bearing recall in 2000, I was one of the lucky ones but the plus to it was I paid for the 95" kit and Harley did the labor on warranty, WOW what an upgrade from the 88 to the 95 with that short stroke.
I'm not saying there wasn't a problem with the cam chain tensioners in the early Twin Cam 88's but I will say that I think the problem was way over blown.!! I am 83 years old and still love to ride. One of my motorcycles is a 1999 Lowrider with 32,000 miles and I have had no problems with it. I have three other newer Harley's with bigger displacement engines but the old Lowrider keeps right up with them. I do keep up my equipment and they don't lack for maintenance.!!
That's awesome your still riding! How many years do you have in the saddle? It's strange cause Harley never acknowledged it officially. Good maintenance is the key though too!
@@GixxerFoo the hyvo can chains in the 60's through to now was the major problem with all american car engines ..as the first to eliminated the chains altogether were gear drives for small block Chevy engines for the world of outlaw sprint cars that are still used today and are quite exotic and last for years and years as when you blow an engine you take your gear drive and use it on your next new Short block...does anyone remember the evo engines with one gear on the cam and one gear on the crank ..with absolutely no issues ever with the valve train ..and with 96 inch jugs from S&S ..100 plus horse power was common
And at your age you will never have the issues we are taking about ..as the twin cams self district at around 60 to 80 thousand miles and can take out the engine cases and you're fucked
@@donniebaker5984 Why do people take more into account the "destruction" when there are tons of the same motors still running and doing well? It's something I just don't understand.
Hi 👋, Guys, I have had the Softail Deuce, 88 them upgraded to 95, and a 2-1 exhaust system, ages ago, I left a comment, I thought my exhaust was a DND, but it wasn’t , I do apologise, I was going through some paperwork last weekend I came across the instructions for it, I got the pipes from drag specialties , and it is made by Russ Tom it is still called a Boom Can and it certainly was, P/N DS- 202002/3 , if they are still available, this is a nice sounding pipe, over the years I have had a lot of comments, Ride Safe, Phil
Great video for guys who are buying their first twincams. I did some homework before i bought mine and i figured out pretty much same issues that are shown in the video. Immediately when i got the bike, i did the upgrade to the hydraulic tensioner. It was good timing for the tensioner job, because it was totally worn out. I have heard the quality of the very first TC's cams are pretty bad. My cams were completely worn out on 40k miles, so i had to replace them too and lifters aswell. After the upgrade and am replacing the cams i have rode around 6k miles without any problems.
Never buy the first year, even the M8's had some serious issues that first year. Sumping issues, oil wasn't returning to the crank case and shelling motors.
@@GixxerFoo Thats a good advice and it works with all the models Harley have ever made. I have mostly messed with my trusty '73 shovelhead, which has been in my possession over 18 yrs now. Its made in the notorious AMF era, so i know the first year/early years rule.
My dad recently gave me his 04 Softail with 90 thousand miles after buying a new bike and has never changed the tensioners. recently drove it 800 miles with absolutely no issues and bike runs perfect but will be getting them changed soon just for a good measure lol
I had a TC88 Roadking from 1999-2009 nearly 90K miles. All I did was of course was change the muffles, add a Vance and Hines antiquated tuner back then, change the oils and tires as needed. Never opened her up. My two dislikes, was the 5 speed transmission, I found myself up clicking for another gear, and the lousy brakes. When I bought my 103 Limited in Dec on 09 with a 6 speed gearbox, ABS Brembo brakes, and a stereo. Still riding her.
Planning on doing the screaming eagle upgrade, and eventually the 95" kit. Picked up an 01 Dyna FXD pretty cheap this summer and currently building it into a T Sport.
I have a 2002 Sotftail Standard, carbed TC88. Bought it new. It got a gear drive cam set, Thunderheader, & Chrome engine kit before it ever left the dealership. Just turned over 40K miles. Bought a 2014 Street Glide last yr which we love for the longer trips, but the Softail is still my favorite for a quick 50 or 75 mile ride. With the cam, carb, & Thunderheader it has a nice idle lope for sure
@@GixxerFoo surprisingly other than pipes and modest tuning my 05 is not that far from stock and my buddies 96 has a hard time keeping up off the line . I rode quite a few bikes before I settled on my 05 Dyna but just passed 50,000 miles and absolutely love the thing. Do kind of miss not having a Sportster though and if I can find an early 70s Ironhead like my 74 or even a 1200 carburetor Evo I will gladly get another. Love the videos 👍
I appreciate it! Sounds like you do your own work if you're interested in an iron head. I wouldn't mind having one myself. Lol just when you think you got gremlins worked out and take it a little farther than usual that's when you find a good one.
I looked a lot into twin cams and evolution engines and learned a lot about harley design in the process. I ended up buying a new bike with the m8 107. Much higher cost of entry but I don't have to be nervous about breakdowns or wrenching of a used bike. Less to worry about starting out with my first bike. Another thing i would like to mention is the sound increase with the gear drive cams. Some people didn't like the added noise. Some treat the tensioner shoe as a wear item and make sure to replace it regularly. As goes with anything, good maintenance is a must to make it run for a long time. Ride safe everyone
You said it right there, you have to treat the tensioners like a wear item. Buying a new bike has perks of not chasing down gremlins. I am curious to see how the tensioner on M8 plays out, a lot of miles out there already and no reports of issues 👍.
@@GixxerFoo yes, i am curious too. I am guilty of not riding enough. But there's been many bikes that have crossed at least 25k and some even 50k and I haven't really heard of any major issues. I am keeping it stock for now and feel satisfied with the power for my riding style. Hoping these turn out to be reliable motors.
I loved my TC88. Mine was a 2002 and still had a carburetor. They definitely have the classic loping idle with a carb. Most people just don't have experience with a carb twin cam. The Softail and touring got fuel injection while only the dyna kept the carb up until 2002 or 03. But I can assure you a TC will produce that glorious idle with the best of them if it's fed by a carburetor 👍. Mine would fire up with one hit every time and go anywhere i told it to go. As I said in evo comment i really regret selling it. It truly was the last of the carbed big twin Harleys. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to buy another one
@@GixxerFoo And why is the lope so much different ? My buddy has a 2002 Dyna and I have an `03 RK, his is carb`d, mine is a fuelie...same engine, different idle. Does the ignition have alot to do with it ?
I have a carbureted 02 Electra Glide TC88 that I will never sell. My wife calls her “The Boneshaker” and the old girl is part of the family. And yes, I have had guys ask me on occasion if I would ever consider selling. Most recently, last summer at 4am one morning while filling up at a truck stop on a cross country ride. He actually gave me his business card in case I change my mind. (I do have a stage 1 & 2…. No tensioner issues now)
I have a 2005 FLHT that I ordered new, with a carburetor. Runs and sounds great. My TC88 is stock other than the cam chain tensioner & oil pump upgrade. Never had a single problem with it , just routine scheduled maintenance. This bike is a keeper.
I went all out with the S&S 100” big bore kit. Best thing I ever did. But note to all it’s not just under 3k like GixxerFoo tells ya. There is a lot more needed to unleash the full potential. My Dyno results are 111hp with 116 lbs torque!
I love my Harleys, but let's face it after building motorcycles for 118 years you would think they could build the best most reliable motorcycle in the world.
Could probably build one to go 100/150K reliably with normal maintenance and no abuse. Got 85K from my 2001 ElectroGlide Classic before I sold it in 2013. Decided to have the camshaft chain tensioners checked at 50K and found them completely worn out. Fortunate I didn’t wait longer
If Harley Davidson had less lawyers and less bean counters and would let the engineers design the bike without budget constraints we could make it last for 300K miles. I have been a mechanical engineer for 40 years and I can tell you from experience that we don't always get to build what we design. It's always..."how can we make it cheaper"...."Price Point"... It has nothing to do with Engineering. It has to do with profit for the stockholders, price point and revenue. We know how to build it bullet proof but, if they won't let you ...well you see the results...Look as some of the Harleys that were made when AMF owned them. Absolute junk for the very reason I stated above...
@@bqbquinn Yeah that was known by Harley but they won't admit it. If they did it would force a recall. I swapped mine out twice in 65K miles...The last time was with hydraulic tensioners that came with the Feuling 525 Reaper Cam Chest Kit...
We love Harleys not because they are the best and or reliable because they are not! we love them because new or old we always have the opportunity to modify or change something to make them unique, plus nothing in this world sounds like a Harley. 😊
Still went ahead and purchased a '02 FLSTS knowing the flaws. I can live with the upgrades needed because I like the bike and am willing to go that extra mile in order for the motor to live. In my opinion (everyone has one) the Heritage Springer is one of the best looking bikes any manufacturer has made to date.
S&S also offers the chain drive cam plate kit which is a forged plate and you can get that kit with the high volume oil pump as well and all of their cam plate kits come with the upgraded hydraulic cam chain tensioners. What I also like about the S&S kit is that the cam plate comes with the heavy duty bronze cam bushings installed instead of bushings simply cast and machined in the aluminum plate material itself. Bronze bushings are superior to aluminum. I've looked at a few cam plate and oil pump kits and I think S&S makes a very good product.
I put in the screaming eagle 95 kit on my 2002 FXDL (In 2008) and have not had any significant motor issues. Solid Motor. I would definitely say you will have to wrench on it somewhat regularly (Bike as a whole) but otherwise I love my old Dyna. Great and informative video!
Thank you, l appreciate you watching. That 95 is where it's at on the 88, wakes it up and reliably too. I love the older bikes more than any of the new stuff today.
@Lurch I don’t necessarily disagree with your assessment (coincidentally I am an Aviator lol) but I have to say converting my TC to 95ci and making gear driven vs spring tensioner has worked out quite well. Motor has plenty of power and reliability. Newer M8s (114) are pretty decent motors imo and I’ve only upgraded the cam, air cleaner and exhaust. It’s been nothing but reliable as well. Just goes to show those AMF days have had longer reputation builder than one might think.
I bought used 88 Heritage Softail with damaged chain tensioners, risky but cheap and turned out no much damage after opening camchest cover. I replaced with screaming eagle kit and mild Andrews TW 21 cams, put new lifters, adjustable push rods, new true dual exhaust system and couple other goodies. I did job by myself and love the bike. I have solid bottom as it is 2001 and currently 32 K, I already put over 6 k since I bought it. In the back of my head I have idea of upgrading to 95, maybe someday as so far I am perfectly happy. I love EVO but too much vibrations for me in that softail frame, I think 88 is still a great motor after you fix camchain tensioners issue.
That's exactly the point I am trying to get across, the 88's a great motor for someone who wants to buy it cheap and do the work themselves. Like you mentioned you have the good bottom end, with the Timken bearings you'd have no worries going to a 95. The 88 isn't for everyone, you have to do the work yourself and know what you're getting into.
You put in the best cam, ever! I have.them and love not having to rev the crap out of it to pass someone! And taking off under power at normal revs you can't really explain; they have to ride it to believe it.
41,000 on my 2005 TC88 (bought new) , cam chain tensioners replaced at 40,000. They were fine. Crank run out .002 Great motor, hoping to go another 40,000 😎
Did the screaming eagle camplate upgrade on my 03 ultra. Has worked flawlessly, and gave me som peace of mind. The oil pressure gauge showed the effectiveness from the high flow oil pump, so its worth every penny.
Twin cam are amazing motors!! And great for performance and stunt style riding, I love hearing a high compression twin cam bouncing off a hard limiter!!
I've got a 2002 RKC with the SE high cap oil pump hydro tensioners and a 204 cam. My stock tensioners were grooved with some pitting when I replaced them at around 34k miles. My HP is 76+ now and the bike screams with never ending power. I love the upgrade. Expensive with HD labor rates, but worth it. I absolutely love my classic.
@@semperoccultus1969 Harley OEM headers are a lot better than people give them credit for, those are worth welding up for sure. Harley's headers with a set of slip on exhaust pull some damn good numbers on a dyno.
@@GixxerFoo Yup, and I got a TTS tuner to go with, so my bike dyno'ed at almost 77 HP and I think (I don't have the sheet in front of me) 91 torque... maybe. I'd have to look at it again.
I agree...my 02 TC88 had the spring chain tensioners and bad bearings...issues - catastrophic motor failure. I wanted to keep my serial # matching so I sent the motor in to HD for the ReMan program and now upgraded to gear drive... the motor now runs like it should with plenty of Torque. These upgrades are still way cheaper then buying a new bike
That's no joke, l am a fan of their reman program. Especially since they upgrade your motor to current specs, also you can upgrade displacement as well. It's at a deep discount especially compared to buying a kit!
I went with the hydraulic tensioner, cam plate and oil pump upgrade somewhere around 40,000 to 45,000 miles in my TC 88. The stock tensioner was seriously worn by the time I had it changed.
@@brookebrawley2142 I don't exactly recall but I do remember that the kit retailed for $499.95 if I remember correctly. The kit included a cam plate, hydraulic tensioner and improved oil pump. I just checked Harley-Davidson's website and the kit now retails for $574.95. Keep in mind that this is for a twin cam motor and not an M8. I am not certain what is offered for the M8.
I had my cam chain guides changed out at 37,000 miles when I had Andrews TW26 cams installed. I am the original owner of a 2006 Road King FLHR/I and have only used Amsoil in the bike since it was broke in. There was a little pitting on the pad surface but they had not yet even started wearing a grove into the pads. Other then the pitting they were like new...
I went for the gear driven option. But the run out on crank has to be less than 3 thou. Mine was 5 was getting casings painted so got a tomkins bearing fitted at the same time. The exhaust cams were changed to keep the exhaust open longer this fixed the heat problem. That was 10K miles ago happy now.
I just bought a 2002 like new heritage with 18k on it. I knew the tensioners were needing replaced asap. I paid $4200 for it and replaced the tensioners and now i have a like new heritage for WAY under $5000! I love it! PLENTY of power and ride like new.
@@GixxerFoo well I went back with springs this time so I could afford to get it back running asap but I'm already putting back money to go with at least hydraulic if not gears. When I do the next change I'm putting performance cams in too. Love ur channel too man!
Thank you! I appreciate it! There's nothing wrong with the springs as long as you keep up with them. The new spring tensioners don't have as much tension as the old OEM versions did. Still not a bad idea to update at all.
I think Harleys 99 / 02 carbureted Twin Cams are by far the best twin cams built even with the spring-loaded tensioner issue. The scary thing is I have seen engines fail with under 10,000 and a few that were pulled apart with under 20,000 that were close to failure. On the other side, I have pulled apart some with over 30,000 and the tensioners still looked new. All the engines mentioned had the oil changed every 3,000 miles or less. I think the difference all comes down to the cam chain itself. (This is only my opinion not based on fact.) I think this because the second set of tensioners appear to last longer. Is that because the chain ends up polished over time? Personally, I recommend gear cams because I have never measured an early twin cam with more than .002 runout. On another note, my stage 2 2013 Twin Cam has over 120,000 miles and still runs great and with a little luck, I hope to break 200,000 before splitting the cases.
That was the craziest thing about the 88's tensioners. Just goes to show how stout that Timken bottom end is with run out. That's impressive mileage on your twin cam, l hope you can hit 200k on it!
All I heard was that I am safe because I own a 2002 TC 88. And I can put a big bore kit on it without worrying about my crank. I just upgraded the cam chest with the new oil pump hydraulic cam chain tensioners, 525 fueling cam. My next move is a 98 inch big bore kit with some mild head work
When i picked up my 1999 TC 88 , 50k mile RK. Found spring cam tensioners worn out. I went with stock H-D cam plate, hydraulic tensioner, upgrade to conversion cams. I rode it for another 30K and sold it, no issues. That bike felt bullet proof.
I've had an 88 (Deuce in profile pic), 96" DWG and now 103 Ultra. I didnt care for the 96. Felt sluggish. 88 sounded and ran great was just lacking top end speed. 103 has been great so far it feels more balanced on top and bottom end speeds than the smaller brothers. Overall unless I'm buying a shovel or pan I will only buy TC engines.
Bought my Softail Standard new in 2001. Was warned about the cam chain tensioner shoes in 2013 at 35k miles. Inspected them myself at the time and they were pretty well on the way out. Opted for the Screamin' Eagle hydraulic solution because it was more economical at the time. Rode 50k Los Angeles freeway miles to work over the next three years until I moved to South Carolina in 2016. Ol' Blue has over 86K original miles as I approach 20 years of ownership in April, 2021. THE CARBURETED TWIN CAM 88 IS THE BEST, BOMBPROOF ENGINE, EVER!! Every seal and gasket has probably been replaced over the years, kept the fluids changed regularly and it's been laid down a handful of times but I would own this Harley over any of the junk they put out today. I rode this bike from Los Angeles to Washington, D.C. after 9/11 and was the greatest adventure of my life. It also has a great classic appearance. I was a relatively new rider at 48 when I bought it. At that time, the demand was high and inventory was low. The whole HD branding thing was just getting started but seven years later the economy takes a major dump everything gets turned around. But this motorcycle of mine just keeps going and now I'm 68 and enjoying it still. Found me a great indy mechanic , too. Good luck to everyone!
That's awesome! You've got your money's worth out of that motorcycle! That's the best part about a Harley is being able to keep them forever like that. You made one hell of a cross country trip on that bike, that was back before the bagger craze and thinking you need a giant touring bike to make trips like that. You've got the key to the longevity, just fix what it needs and keep on going. Harley doesn't build them like they used to like that 88, nice to hear you're hanging onto it!
@@GixxerFoo Thanks for the "Like" and for your thoughtful comment. I have to confess though...in 2007 I traded it to a dealer in NJ for a new Road King which I hated from the moment I brought it home. First model year of the TC 96 & the six speed transmission. Absolute horror show on wheels. Noisy fifth gear and the bike ran so hot (fuel injection) that I couldn't stand the heat at a stop sign or light. The made the engine bigger but it still had the same EPA constraints. Wrote to Harley-Davidson, their board of directors and to anyone who would listen about how much I hated this bike. I wanted it to work for me. I was so used to the Softail that perhaps I didn't like the balance of a touring bike...I don't know. But I pretty much scolded HD for putting bikes out to production with such inherent issues. I did the homework and discovered I wasn't the only one who was angry over this. I chose NOT to live with it. One day I get a call from the GM at the Harley store where I purchased the Road King. She invited me to come in for a conversation. Well. it wasn't just with her. Every manager in the joint sat in at that meeting...Service, Sales, Parts, even motor clothes! Each concluded the same...buyers remorse. I told them no way. Like anything else, when you're in the show room you get carried away and a fellow rider friend convinced me it was time to "move on up". I was offered free oil changes, motor clothes, heat shields and some bling to trick it out a little. I told them none of that was going to improve the The GM then pulled a woman's point a view by smiling and saying..."But Mike, It's such a pretty bike!" Where I replied, "yeah, it is that. But you can put whipped cream on a piece of S__T, it still ain't a cupcake..." Her sweet smile turned to a grim business face and asked, "What do you want then?" I said, "My Softail." She turned to Mr. Sales and asked if they even still had it, he checked the inventory and, yes, it's in the warehouse. I said go ahead and re-write the contract from the Road King to re-sell the Softail back to me. THAT'S how desperate I was. She said, no, we won't do that. Instead, she re-opened the balance of what I owed on the Softail, added a $1,000.00 depreciation and offered me a six year ESP. Done and done. I had tears in my eyes riding Ol' Blue home and still with me 13 years later. Thanks for letting me share.
I don't blame you at all for getting your old bike back! Yeah l gotta be honest that would of pissed me off if someone said that to me a meeting. I have heard some dealer horror stories, there are some shady ones. I am very fortunate to have a wonderful local dealer, people come from all over to do business with them. They are really straight forward and honestly very small for a Harley dealer.
It's crazy how some of those motors went that long and others failed before 15K. I dunno if it was a bad run of tensioners or what, but no two motors are exactly alike.
I've had four Harley's with 88's. Three injected models and a carbed '05 Springer Classic I currently ride. Never, not once have I had any issues with any of the 88's I have owned. Total miles bewteen all 4? About 150,000.
That's awesome to hear, to many people had tensioner issues early on with low mile motors. It must of been a bad run, built on a Monday or Friday before a holiday weekend.
The Cam Tensioner problem was ironed by; seems like by 2005.. 2006 twin cams are rock solid and first year with the rear cylinder deactivation for heat... 2007 twin cam was bumped up from 87 to 96
150000 miles on four TV 88's impressive, almost beats my 1990 FLHTC evo that I've had since she was new with 290 km ( 179000 miles) and the motors never been touched. Took Harley 90 years to finally build a good engine and then they f*** it up.
I have 6 Harleys and my 2000 softail has a 98 hp 88 inch built to a 95 inch and its such a great motor I've rode it like a cheap hooker hard for the last 10 plus years and makes me wish I had more 88's... i kinda think 88 was the best motor performance wise they have produced. we also got a reliable 119 hp out of my buddies fuel injection 88 🤷♂️ thanks for the input on bearings, I'm getting ready to do cams and heads on couple other bikes I have.
I have a 2000. I would really like to ask you some questions. I have a guy who is trying to help me, but he can't write or spell worth a damn, and I can't figure out what he's trying to say.
I currently have a 2001 Road King Classic with 50 some thousand miles, fuel injected. I love it! Never once had a problem with the engine. I've also got a 2002 Heritage Softail Springer, carbureted with 60 some thousand miles. That bike Is absolutely perfect! I get compliments every time I take it out. I took it from New Mexico to Milwaukee for the 115th with no issues. And I just bought a 2015 CVO Street Glide with the 110. I'm curious to see how it does.
@@GixxerFoo Thanks, I bought the CVO used with 41,000 already on it. I bought it to take it to Milwaukee in 3 years. I haven't received it yet. I literally just bought it and they are shipping it from California. So I'm curious too.
@@rorycalhoun5853 Damn, lol l have never bought a bike and had it shipped like that. Well the best way to buy a CVO is used like that. The CVO is the biggest value loss of any Harley if you buy one new.
2000 WIDE GLIDE , HAD THE CAM CHAIN AND TENTIONERS CHECKED AT 32,OOO MILES AND LOOKED GOOD!!!! BUT I NEVER ABUSED THE BIKE AND KEPT EVERYTHING MAINTAINED!!!!!
I have two TC88 bikes. I will change the cam chain tensioners on my own, but those are the last two HDs I will ever buy. HD should have fixed this design flaw before of these bikes were sold.
@DrLove if this was No small wear and tear, then it should be in the manual. This is not normal, this is 100% design screw up. HD still not not even acknowledge this problem. Normal wear should be in the manual
Dang foo! My wife and I said we would never own a HD . I have been irritated with Harley for what they have done over the years. Your breakdown of the TC 88 has got me looking at some Electra Glides that I actually can afford. Thank you for your info and making it clear to understand. Good info when asking owner about upgrades and repairs done!!!
That's awesome to hear! The 88's are really some very reliable engines once you get the cam chest upgraded. Just another tip if you get a 99 to 02, get the carb version and stay away from the Magnetti Marelli fuel injection. But don't get a fuel injected bike unless it has the Delphi fuel injection.
@@GixxerFoo I was able to purchase a 2012 Ultra Classic a couple weeks ago. What a sweet ride. Your videos helped in my year choice and things to ask the owner about the bike.
Hi GixxerFoo, Just changed my cam chain tensioners on my 2000 Fat boy, the mileage was 34000, if I could have viewed the inner tensioner properly, I wouldn't have bothered changing them. Stay safe from across the pond in England.
@@GixxerFoo Wow ! I also fitted a Feuling pump, S&S inner bearings and a Baisley pressure relief valve. Any idea why Feuling spell it the way they do. Happy biking from England.
Love my 88s, I've got a roadking and a dyna wide glide for less then one 103 bike. My dyna holds it own against 103s and 107s well up until about 60 anyway.
Really I was only thinking of doing a cam kit as I already knew of the chain tensioners and good tune, it’s only done 3700miles to me it’s only just broken in so I don’t really want to tear into it
A set of cams won't hurt anything, it's when you start adding big bore kits and high er compression is when you really need to change the output shaft bearing.
Yeah okay cool, also being carby do you know if it has a rev limiter? I never have turned it that hard to find out but can’t find online if it dose or it will just got till valve float?
One thing you need to check. If you have a TC88 with a stock headpipe, take off the chrome dress shield on the back cylinder head on the righ side of the bike and inspect the pipe. They have a nasty habit of cracking...Mine did and I found it by accident. No telling how long I had been riding around with it cracked but if you have excessive heat coming from the rear cylinder that cooks your leg, inspect the pipe. The crack if big enough lets air in causing the back cylinder to run extremely lean...That makes it run hot and sooner or later you will cook it..
That's a excellent point! Back on the carbed bikes you couldn't tune that rear cylinder individually like we can today with fuel injection to cool that rear cylinder down.
@@GixxerFoo Yep, I have two different fuel mixtures set on my Thundermax. The rear cylinder is always going to run hotter because it doesn't get that great of air flow for cooling. That being said, a hotter cylinder needs less fuel but running it too lean increases the Delta T by a bunch from the front cylinder. That is what usually cracks the crossover pipe.So my back cylinder is running 2% enriched compared to my front cylinder
My tensioner on my 2000 Ultra went out on me at Myrtle bike week last month. My mech told me it ate the tension spring as well. So he recommended the Feuling 525 plate set-up $1700 for whole kit. Absolutely feel better powerful performance. By the way my tensioner went out probably 1500 miles ago and never noticed it.
You're mechanic steered you right, Feuling makes solid products. 1700 for the kit isn't cheap but it's worth it. Glad it didn't shell your motor, that's the crappy part is that there is no warning.
@@GixxerFoo I bought the 2002 Road King in 2013 and it had the high flow air cleaner on the carb, and it runs really well and I have never had trouble keeping up with guys on TC96s--so I am guessing that it has the 95in displacement upgrade. The hydraulic tensioners are the screaming eagle ones (those I had done at a Harley Dealership). I have Screaming eagle street cannon hi-flow exhaust with true duals and I replaced the standard CV carb with an S&S super E. One thing, which I think is common to all touring models, is the shift linkage that is fragile. You have to keep an eye on it. If it starts to get loose or wobble a little, tighten it right away or you will be taking the whole primary off to put a new inside shift lever on or maybe even a new shaft on the transmission. That is all that I have done to it. She has 70,000 miles on her and running like a dream.
I remember the linkage issues, when l was younger l dated a girl who's dad was the the man in service at the local indy shop. He was always working on shifter linkage for people!
03 RoadKing. 78,000 miles. Carburetor. Only use natural oil with zinc and copper. Never has had a wrench on the motor. Original everything including sparkplugs. 7 rear tires, 4 front tires. 4 rear brakes, 2 front brakes. On the second battery. The most trouble free, reliable, easiest starting and smooth running vehicle I've ever owned. May change sparkplugs at 100,000, we'll see...
Another question. How do you feel about using the 07-11 hydraulic cam plate, and oil pump in place of the 99-06 version? I know Woods and and Andrews has a conversion kit to do such.
there is a third alternative you haven't mentioned. just put inspection as part of your 15k mile maintenance. the first time you need replacement, cut the pushrods out and replace with adjustable to make the job easier in the future.it is the cheapest solution to the tensioner question.
I have a 2000 Fatboy, Mikuni carb, with Andrews 26 gear drive cams that I put in the bike in 2001. Currently have 125K miles and the bike runs great! I do my own wrenching on this bike and wouldn't trade it in for the new Harleys if you paid me. Just way to much electronic crap on them!!
The TC 88 engine has flaws like other Harley Davidson motors, but you can fix those problems upgradable aftermarket parts. they are reliable, and last along time, just check the cam tensioners about 15,000 miles to 17,000 miles and you will be set, and do oil changes every 2500to 3000 miles.
You're right they have their issues but it's nothing that can't be fixed. Tensioners are the main issues, crazy how some failed before 15k and others never had an issue.
Harley never exactly came out and admitted the issue, the lucky owners were able to get it taken care of quietly. I'm amazed how some bikes went 50 to 60k without an issue and many failed before 15k.
Had 36K on my 99 WG ....Looked damn near new yet...To be honest, I did the Case bearing upgrade, new bearings in the plate, stock cams looked good yet so they went back in, 20% zippers oil spring, re-used the lifters and oil pump and did rocker lockers. local shop spring tensioners.... Harley though, so its still adds up quick.
Very nice! They aren't bad motors at all, very reliable. Especially those early models, just keep up on the shoes and maintenance and they will run forever.
As usual great info. I wasn't aware r of the timing lower end till this video, makes me more comfortable with my 02 RKC upgrades happening this winter. Fuelng cam plate, tensioner, oil pump, lifters, 543 cams. Hammer 98 inch kit 10.5 compression and behive springs kit. All I have left is headwork. Mild porting and spring setup. Looking for a recommendation? Oh yeah one last thing. That shelf behind you is one quart of oil away from catastrophic failure! It sags more every video lol.
I did not read through all the comments. It should be mentioned that Harley had a recall for cam plate failure. My (at the time) 1999 dynawide glide was brought in under this recall and repaired. I put a S&^t load of miles on that bike and never had a problem.
@@GixxerFoo I was lucky the guy who bought it new was an old guy like me and took great care of it. The only change he made was he upgraded the exhaust. He had sold it to move out of state. The guy who bough it had a issue with his wife and returned it the day before the guy was moving. He called me and i made a stupid low offer and he took it. Best bike deal I made in 40 years.
great vid, you are the first person that could detail the 95 kit, including Harleys website which doesn't have the details. I bought an 88 fxdli ( low rider with fxdx suspension) the owner said it had the 95 kit but no receipts. he did have the 1550 derby cover so there is that. I'll take your advice on the inspection, thanks.
Thank you, l appreciate you watching and your support! I am a fan of the Low Rider, it's one of my favorites! Yeah you'd have to pull the head to know for sure if it's a 95ci.
Harley should have never have these issues like this!, instead of being a t shirt and aftermarket parts company they need to hire some engineers that design a motor that after 15,000 miles you have to throw thousands of dollars at it. unacceptable
You are so right in 2006 I just trusted them it was harley davidson boy was that a mistake I should have done my diligence 9. I know I will never buy another new one ever. I will stick to the shovel and evo I have put countless miles on both with very few problems they might be slower but I an in my sixties and they all go fast enough for these days and nothin sounds better than a shovel with drag pipes no brag just fact
It's called "planned obsolescence". Most American companies started adopting this policy in the 90's. Some were far before that but it gained major traction in the 90's.
It's a catch 22. You can eliminate the cam shoes BUT this engine is prone to developing too much crank run out to run a Gear Drive. What's worse is even if your crank run-out is within spec to run a Gear Drive that doesn't mean that your run out increase later and destroy your Gear Drive. I chose to just replace my tensioner shoes with better quality aftermarket ones and check and replace them as needed. It's also a good idea to upgrade those inner cam bearings well you have the cams out. The inner bearings are cheap an easy to change while you're already in there.
The problem is not the company it is the persons who buy the bikes only lawyers and doctors can afford one LoL seriously the problem lies with the service most people just hop on it and expect it to run forever maybe only stressing to change oil but a bike of any model requires MASSIVE service heck most European bikes require valve adjustment the average blue collar American including the poser grungy bikers guys would cringe at the idea of tear down to do regular service on intervals these are the same guys that can not lite a pilot light or fix a water leak my point is these bikes have 20, 30, 40, 50k miles with no real service performed they just get started revved up rode like heck & then the owners whine cause it has problems an analogy would be if I drove a car & never changed brakes heck eventually it will be a problem
I completely agree, fluids are important but you still have to take a wrench to every nut and bolt. Throughly inspect and listen to every little sound on the bike. Don't put off fixing a little noise that sounds odd. Loose metal likes to travel in those motors.
I think Harley thinks, "planned Obsolescence" in design parts like failing timing tensioner pads! H-D would have started out with gears an had no problems in first place!
I bought an 06 fatty last summer had 185000 on it. Explicitly taken care of I'm the second owner .Previous owner passed so I got it from his son who knows nothing about the bikes history. He did give me a case of syn3 oil said all his dad used in it. Still better take a look at the tensioners.
Synthetic oil does a lot for the tensioners, Royal Purple tested it and showed marked improvement and longevity on the tensioners. I would still check them out though just to be safe.
That's basically how it is buying an 88, you just have to assume going in your going to inspect and be ready to replace or upgrade. I personally wouldn't just buy one and ride off into the sunset assuming it's fine.
Hi @GixxerFoo, I know this video is 2 years old, which, for internet standards is an eternity, but I have a doubt so, even "late", I'm gonna ask for your orientation. Hope I'm lucky enough to receive your attention. I'm a owner of a 2002 carburated Softail Deuce which I love. I bought it 10 years ago with just 6200mi on the odometer, now it has 60000mi. Last inspection of cam tensioners revealed that they were worn to the point where the metal was beginning to show. Luckly, the single side effect of that was that my stock cams suffered "scratches" on its lobbes. Well, I replaced them for used ones (they were perfect, showing no signs of use) that give me the impression that they are slightly more strong. At least the bike is running with much more oomph and, after 3500 RPM, the motorcycle awakes like a hungry (and angry) beast. I'm pretty happy with that. I have a K&N washable air cleaner, Lockhart oil cooler and a pair of VH Shortshots. That V&H are great pipes indeed, but too loud and, besides the fact that I live in a residential area of a major city, I'm getting tired of so much noise on longer trips (about 3000 mi). I'm thinking, therefore, to go back to the full stock exhaust sistem for its quietness. Here (finally) follows the question. If I'm correct and the newer cams that are now fitted on the motorcycle are, lets say, stronger than the stock ones, will the more restrictive stock exhaust be a problem for the bike? Do I need to stick to the more free flow V&H in order to keep the bike running ok? All the best and peace from Brazil.✌ I have to add, you've got a new subscriber.
Going to a stock exhaust is going to choke your horsepower and torque, the short shots are loud even with quiet baffles. You could go the Screamin Eagle slip-on route with the stock head pipe, if you can find some SE mufflers. I would suggest going with another after market exhaust, pretty much anything you like other than the short shots with quiet baffles will knock the sound down quite a bit. You'll still get excellent power, the top end horsepower will be down a bit but you'll have awesome torque with quiet baffles!
@@GixxerFoo Thank you so much for answering so fast and also, of course, for your advice. I will look for some after market quiet mufflers to fit together with the stock headers. Once again, thank you. Peace from Brazil. ✌
I wished I seen this video before I just got a 2000 FatBoy with 52, 000 miles. There is no chin nose coming from the cam shift . I will planning on checking out the tensioner make sure it’s good. But I like to put add gear tensioner . Thank you for this video
Some say it was a bad run or cam chains that ate up tensioners, I think mainly it was too much spring tensioner tension or they wouldn't of developed the hydraulic system. Worst part is they never recalled it, they just quietly fixed it at dealers if someone had an issue.
Now that I've changed out the tensioners to hydraulic and upgraded the oil pump in my 06 fatboy I feel good about my motorcycle as far as dependability. This is my last Harley, too bad I don't have the Timken bearing in my bottom end but I don't do much hotroding anymore seeing I'm 69 and have slowed down considerably. I was afraid of going to gear drive even though my runout was only 1.5k
Would you go with the gear drive system or upgrade to the hydraulic tensioner?
GixxerFoo are you sure the 99 to 2002 tc 88 motor had duel timken bearings on the crank ? I thought the timken was on the drive side or left hand side and the right side was a press fit in the case roller bearing.
From 2003 on the Timken was on the right side, and they used a press fit to save money 👎 on the left. Crap in my opinion as the years went on and power increased. But Harley happily charged you an extra 50 bucks on your $2800 dollar kit for a required "lefty bearing". Plus labor.
GixxerFoo ok no worries so are you saying my 2001 dyna wideglide has a timken on the left being the drive side and has a press fit roller on the right side?
Sounds like you should deal with the hydraulic tensioner first
At the very least that would be the first thing anyone should do.
You're about two bottles of Turtle Wax away from a major avalanche.
😆😂 l swear l have another shelf, l just haven't got it up yet. That was the temporary to permanent model lol.
😂🤣😂 took me a sec to realize
It's a bit of conversation piece now 😆🤷♂️
Lewis A. Now that was funny
🤦♂️ it hasn't fallen yet, l need to start a contest on how many cans are actually up there.
My 88 ripps. Runs perfectly never leaks and hangs with the bigger bikes all day. Nothing sounds better then a carbed 88 with vance and hines pipes
My 95 sportster evo actually sounds better then my 88 on my wide glide lol
Dude... HELL YES!!! Love my carbed 02' FLH 88 with VH slash cuts! 🤘🤘
Looking at an 88 with some go fast goodies and V&H long shots. That girl sounds phenomenal, probably better with a good Thunderheader, though lol
Ya No your 88 even a 95 I run..ain't hanging with the new m8s...unless you want to rattle your teeth out..rolling at 130...
I just bought a dyna wide glide with a carbed 88 and it has VH pipes on it. That thing sounds and feels Great!
Original owner of an ‘02 88 carb Fatboy. Stage one only mod I’ve had for the bike for 30k. Last year inspected both tensioner shoes, they looked 3/4 worn. Went with the upgraded cam plate with better oil pump and hydraulic tensioners. But...from what I remember at that time many years ago, was that there was a recall on those cam bearings!! Certain VIN batch bikes ended up with “defective” bearings that would disintegrate and cause major issues, not the cam tensioners. *Although if the tensioner shoes do wear out, you will have issues as well. So, when I had the new cam plate kit put in, I had both inner and outer bearings replaced, along with replacing the roller lifters since it was being worked on anyways. I ran a stock cam, and expected to replace it with another (since I expected wear on it). But I was told the original cam was perfect... not a wear mark on it. I guess once a year oil changes make a difference. Put about 1.5k since work was done last year, and the stock motor purrs with a slightly cooler oil temp on hot days👍👍 Win for the upgrade and preventative maintenance. Highly recommend the plate with hydro shoes. And definitely replace the bearings (cheap insurance) since your going to be in there anyways. Just my two cents.
I do remember something about a bad run of cam bearings, I don't think it was as well known as the tensioner failures though. A lot of guys that had an early tensioner failure mentioned getting their cam bearings and tensioners replaced under warranty. I know they never recalled the motors for the tensioner failure but they quietly replaced them.
COVID lockdown in 2020 gave me the opportunity to wrench my 2000 FLSTC. I was surprised that at 50K miles the cam chain tensioners were worn but not as bad as anticipated. While torn down I put in S&S 509's, a Feuling cam plate, lifters and high volume oil pump. Also rebuilt the brakes, carburetor and added a new Big Sucker air cleaner. I bought the bike new and the only modifications made then were a jet kit, Kuryakyn air cleaner and a set of Longshots. It has been a dependable ride. I love the traditional look and this old graybeard plans to ride it into the sunset.
That's awesome, those early twin cams have the Timken bottom end so you know it's solid as rock. The tensioners were really hit or miss on those bikes, sounds like you've got one of the good ones though!
Firebearfl I have the 98 flstc and now since my wife passed away I have her 03 lowrider. Never spent much time thinking about different upgrades other than I had the dealership before we even brought it home put Vance an Hines pipes and chrome spoked wheels on it. Nothing is more comfortable than my heritage but I don’t think I will ever sell her bike. But the mid controls suck for me. I didn’t know about the tensioner. Guess I’ll have to do that and forward controls to ride comfortably. Sorry about rant. But I know how you feel about your bike
I upgraded my cam chest at 35k miles on my carbureted 02 Electra Glide and basically used the same components as you. Feuling hydraulic cam plate and tensioner shoes, oil pump and lifters and went with the S&S 510’s. I wanted the power gain at 3k RPM (around 70mph) while freeway cruising. And man do they kick in when passing. I also have no problems keeping up with newer Harley’s. My GL-1800 GoldWing on the other hand, rips down the road. I compare my Harley to an old American made muscle car which just growls and is downright mean. My Wing is like a sleek Porsche. I love them both
I had a TC88 in an 05 Ultra Classic, 90,000+ miles on it,(Purchased new in 05) owned it until this past March when I traded it in for a 2020 FLHT with the M8 107..That TC motor was a screamer, I had SS mild lift cams in it, (No head work) and I went from the chains and tensioners to gear driven cams..it was one of the best Harley engines I have ever owned....Great info and video GixxerFoo....👍
Wow that's a lot of miles! I am sure you enjoyed some fun trips on it.
Damn why did you trade it?! The new bikes are awesome but your bike is a seasoned beast! No they definently weren't screamers but they had the down low don't buy expensive grips torque.
@@GixxerFoo Traded it in because I didn't have the funds for a new bike, it was 15 years old with 90,000 miles plus change, I average about 6-7 thousand mile a year, and owned the bike for 15 years, purchased new....Believe me when I say that I am more than happy with the M8 107...I am planning to do the high flow breather, with a tuner, I already have the needed exhaust....The one thing I truly miss on the FLHT is a cigarette lighter (I know) haha.. which I will install when I do the stage one...maybe a little bit down the road I will add a cam...maybe....At my age (65) all I want to do is ride.
Dang you got your money worth out of that bike! Lol l can see why it was time to get yourself a new ride now, l hope you plan on doing the same with your new one!
I bought a used 2000 Electra glide,no one knows anything about it.
It had 31,600 miles on it,I added just over 4,000 with no problems. It's in the shop now for a going over and an upgrade in the cam chest if it hasn't been done yet. Thank you for your videos,they gave me great direction,and better understanding of my engine.
1999, TC88 , storytime. I bought my 99 carbureted Road King brand new and still own it. I have 23K miles on it and do all my own work. I have inspected my tensioner shoes at 10K mile intervals and only have about a 1/3 of them worn down right now. They're actually doing very well. I'm preparing to install new Twin Power shoes which, have a longer life span and a much more reasonable cost $40, than a gear drive would cost. My cost is minimal and these shoes will last even longer than my stock shoes would. I love my Road King and the way it rides. You have options and throwing a lot of money at a TC88, doesn't have to be one of them.
You're right and doing your own work makes a huge difference. I dunno if it was a bad run of tensioners or what. Your bike sounds like it's done great and other people had an engine failure before 15k.
Be careful about age as well. When I took mine off the crumbled from age but still had plenty of life.
Dang probably a good thing you got them out of there! Better they fell apart taking them off instead of running through the engine.
I still have my 99 RK Classic 35k mi runs great stage 1 , reg maintenance oil is cheap motors aren’t
That's what l've always said too!
Had a 2003 88 in her that I had bumped up to 100 inches (4x4). Thing was very fast, blowing away stock 110 M8. Fun bike. Kept it for almost 9 years.
A square 88 is a monster, I've always stumped for those 88's with a conversion!
What all did you have to do to get the 100 ci
Still riding my 2002 RKC purchased in Nov 2001. Replaced the tensioners at 52K with the hydraulic set up and the shifter shaft seal around the same time. 77.5k miles and the rig still humming along like new. Best bike I've owned.
You've got that all upgraded and won't have to worry about it again. How'd your spring tensioners look when you got them out having 52K on them?
@@GixxerFoo They were done. Worn almost to the metal. Didn't consider a gear drive. Heard to many horror stories. Stuck with what works. I'm that kinna guy.
I don't blame you, gear drives work really well if you have a run out within spec and it stays that way.
Bought an '02 FXSTI new in 01, still have it, has the stage 1 conversion, Vance and Hines str8 shot pipes, quick detach sport windshield, quick detach tall sissy bar & luggage rack, only like 23,000 miles on it. Not tagged or insured @ the moment, health issues make me wonder if I should even keep it, but, can't bring myself to sell it. Damn, getting old sucks!
I have same bike,first tennsioners went out at 50,000have 60,now making a little noise HD DEALER installed Screaming eagle kitincluding cams.
Thanks for this channel. I myself ride a 2000 Harley Davidson Wide Glide Twin cam 88 carburetor, Screamin Eagle exhaust and Arlen Ness air filter giving my ears a musical treat as I cruise the country roads on a sunny summer evening. The main thing in this life is the path, not the destination. Drive, enjoy and go slow.
That's the kind of riding I like to do!
I love my twin cam. It's basically stock. I do all my own work and just replaced the cam chain tensioners. Also the shift lever is a PITA to replace if it gets loose on the splined shaft. I had to remove the primary to replace it. The best part is that I only paid $6K for a pretty cherry bike. Put another thousand into it and you can't go wrong.
Right on, doing your own work is the way to go! The shift levers always seem to be a problem on the 88, I remember the return springs used to break a lot years ago.
Man I just bought a sweet 06 electra glide classic with 41,000 mile so ill send to my certified Harley mechanic to just know its fine i mean its smooth as silk except for a small vacuum leak on the oem carburetor. Everything is stock with slip on Vance and Hines
@@onementality9781 Nice! Mine had about 46k on it when I got it. Chuggin right along with 54k on it now. Check those cam chain tensioners!
Yep, Huge PITA...The front shifter linkage isn't any better . It gets sloppy and floppy. I had to install new bushings and a new shifter shaft. Luckily I didn't have to remove the primary...to get to all of it..
@@GixxerFoo My '99 88a model Ultra's shifter gave me problems. Before I trashed the splines I took some meat out between where shifter clamps down. Fixxed that deal. I thought mine didn't 'lope' because it was the unbalanced engine, didn't know it was because of efi. Tensioners went 110,000 before they wore enough to make noise, embarrasing I let 'em go that far. Cut out pushrods (just couldn't open the top end, nothing wrong with it.) adjustible pushers and new pads is all she got. 160,000 on it now, bone stock. "cept got cam bearing recall without trashing bearings. Had to fail before Harley would touch em. A screw on the stator backed out and the noise it made sounded like it came from cam side. Free upgrade + $100 for tightening screw, lol. Been a dependable bike. Ok, let me write a book. The cams had huge chunks of metal missing, forging irregularities, but not where lifters rode, so ya, they're still in there too. It was a factory demo bike with 9900 miles when I bought it for $17,500. Always did my own work, rode my 62 FLH 27 years before this bike.
I have a 2004 FLHTCUI that I converted to 95 cu in. (with the SE kit) around 2010. It had about 50k miles on it then and the cam chain tensioners were worn out. When doing the work to it I also changed out the tensioners to the SE kit with HD oil pump. I have about 81k miles on it now and it runs like a top. I didn't know about checking the runout on the pinion shaft when I did the work to it (I do all my own wrenching and have for over 50 years) but chose not to use the gear drive system because of the excessive noise. Your articles are very informative and easy to understand. Thanks for producing them.
I bought a 2001 TC88 Road King new, and still have it with about 57K miles. Very reliable ride.
Shortly after I got it I had the 95" kit installed by the dealer, but with SE-204 cams.
I did some carburetor modification and tuning myself, and installed Hooker tuned flow slip-on mufflers (no longer on, or available).
I later added a Dyna-jet tuner/ignition., and 10mm plug wires.
At about 40K the cam chain shoes were worn about 2/3 down, so I upgraded to the SE hydraulic tensioner/oil pump. I had manual compression releases installed at the same time, because the engine would kick back against the starter during restarts when the engine was hot. Cured.
Recently I replaced the rear air shocks with Progressive 444HD shocks. (big improvement over the 19 year old air shocks-duh)
** I think that light upgrade will be next, followed by a new seat. The original vinyl seat is starting to crack.
I love hearing about bikes that stay around a while, that's the beauty of a Harley is being able to keep it like that. Sounds like you've got it all updated and reliable as any new bike out there!
@@GixxerFoo Now has Progressive front cartridge replacements in front fork tubes, Mustang seat with back-rest and LED head/passing lights, and head breather so no more oily air into carburetor.
Looking at an oil cooler next.
Mine went 5000 before the motor let loose but I think there was a cam bearing recall in 2000, I was one of the lucky ones but the plus to it was I paid for the 95" kit and Harley did the labor on warranty, WOW what an upgrade from the 88 to the 95 with that short stroke.
I'm not saying there wasn't a problem with the cam chain tensioners in the early Twin Cam 88's but I will say that I think the problem was way over blown.!! I am 83 years old and still love to ride. One of my motorcycles is a 1999 Lowrider with 32,000 miles and I have had no problems with it. I have three other newer Harley's with bigger displacement engines but the old Lowrider keeps right up with them. I do keep up my equipment and they don't lack for maintenance.!!
That's awesome your still riding! How many years do you have in the saddle? It's strange cause Harley never acknowledged it officially. Good maintenance is the key though too!
@@GixxerFoo the hyvo can chains in the 60's through to now was the major problem with all american car engines ..as the first to eliminated the chains altogether were gear drives for small block Chevy engines for the world of outlaw sprint cars that are still used today and are quite exotic and last for years and years as when you blow an engine you take your gear drive and use it on your next new Short block...does anyone remember the evo engines with one gear on the cam and one gear on the crank ..with absolutely no issues ever with the valve train ..and with 96 inch jugs from S&S ..100 plus horse power was common
And at your age you will never have the issues we are taking about ..as the twin cams self district at around 60 to 80 thousand miles and can take out the engine cases and you're fucked
@@donniebaker5984 Why do people take more into account the "destruction" when there are tons of the same motors still running and doing well? It's something I just don't understand.
That's true, there are failures out there with any engine but it's a small percentage compared to the ones that never had a major issue.
Hi 👋, Guys, I have had the Softail Deuce, 88 them upgraded to 95, and a 2-1 exhaust system, ages ago, I left a comment, I thought my exhaust was a DND, but it wasn’t , I do apologise, I was going through some paperwork last weekend I came across the instructions for it,
I got the pipes from drag specialties , and it is made by Russ Tom it is still called a Boom Can and it certainly was, P/N DS- 202002/3 , if they are still available, this is a nice sounding pipe, over the years I have had a lot of comments, Ride Safe, Phil
I’ve got a lot to learn. You’re a HUGE help. Thanks bro. Please keep putting out videos on the TC88!!!!!
Will do! There's some differences on the 88 vs the 96 and 103. 88 is an excellent motor and a huge torque producer!
Great video for guys who are buying their first twincams. I did some homework before i bought mine and i figured out pretty much same issues that are shown in the video. Immediately when i got the bike, i did the upgrade to the hydraulic tensioner. It was good timing for the tensioner job, because it was totally worn out. I have heard the quality of the very first TC's cams are pretty bad. My cams were completely worn out on 40k miles, so i had to replace them too and lifters aswell. After the upgrade and am replacing the cams i have rode around 6k miles without any problems.
Never buy the first year, even the M8's had some serious issues that first year. Sumping issues, oil wasn't returning to the crank case and shelling motors.
@@GixxerFoo Thats a good advice and it works with all the models Harley have ever made. I have mostly messed with my trusty '73 shovelhead, which has been in my possession over 18 yrs now. Its made in the notorious AMF era, so i know the first year/early years rule.
GixxerFoo shows the lack of quality control on harleys. No excuses. They will sell their bikes regardless of reliability issues.
My dad recently gave me his 04 Softail with 90 thousand miles after buying a new bike and has never changed the tensioners. recently drove it 800 miles with absolutely no issues and bike runs perfect but will be getting them changed soon just for a good measure lol
90K miles?! That's awesome, yeah I'd open that cam cover up and take a peak at those, wouldn't hurt to go ahead to change them.
I had a TC88 Roadking from 1999-2009 nearly 90K miles. All I did was of course was change the muffles, add a Vance and Hines antiquated tuner back then, change the oils and tires as needed. Never opened her up. My two dislikes, was the 5 speed transmission, I found myself up clicking for another gear, and the lousy brakes.
When I bought my 103 Limited in Dec on 09 with a 6 speed gearbox, ABS Brembo brakes, and a stereo. Still riding her.
Harley finally started listening to their customers and put better brakes and a 6 speed. I am still trying to find that 6th gear on my bike too!
Planning on doing the screaming eagle upgrade, and eventually the 95" kit. Picked up an 01 Dyna FXD pretty cheap this summer and currently building it into a T Sport.
T Sports are frickin awesome! You won't regret the 95 inch kit, they run strong with the short stroke the 88's have.
I have a 2002 Sotftail Standard, carbed TC88. Bought it new. It got a gear drive cam set, Thunderheader, & Chrome engine kit before it ever left the dealership. Just turned over 40K miles. Bought a 2014 Street Glide last yr which we love for the longer trips, but the Softail is still my favorite for a quick 50 or 75 mile ride. With the cam, carb, & Thunderheader it has a nice idle lope for sure
I replaced the Cam Chain tensioner and the oil pump and used that as a bargaining tool when I bought the bike .
I prefer the 88 to the 96
Really? I've heard that quite a bit down at the local indy shop, a lot of guys run built 88's down there.
@@GixxerFoo surprisingly other than pipes and modest tuning my 05 is not that far from stock and my buddies 96 has a hard time keeping up off the line .
I rode quite a few bikes before I settled on my 05 Dyna but just passed 50,000 miles and absolutely love the thing.
Do kind of miss not having a Sportster though and if I can find an early 70s Ironhead like my 74 or even a 1200 carburetor Evo I will gladly get another.
Love the videos 👍
I appreciate it! Sounds like you do your own work if you're interested in an iron head. I wouldn't mind having one myself. Lol just when you think you got gremlins worked out and take it a little farther than usual that's when you find a good one.
@@turbomustang84 bought a 05 fxdx to replace my 05 sporty. ....5yrs of the fxdx, still can't bring myself to sell the sporty. ....😆
I really enjoy my Sportster too, l don't think l could sell mlm one off either!
I looked a lot into twin cams and evolution engines and learned a lot about harley design in the process. I ended up buying a new bike with the m8 107. Much higher cost of entry but I don't have to be nervous about breakdowns or wrenching of a used bike. Less to worry about starting out with my first bike. Another thing i would like to mention is the sound increase with the gear drive cams. Some people didn't like the added noise. Some treat the tensioner shoe as a wear item and make sure to replace it regularly. As goes with anything, good maintenance is a must to make it run for a long time. Ride safe everyone
You said it right there, you have to treat the tensioners like a wear item. Buying a new bike has perks of not chasing down gremlins. I am curious to see how the tensioner on M8 plays out, a lot of miles out there already and no reports of issues 👍.
@@GixxerFoo yes, i am curious too. I am guilty of not riding enough. But there's been many bikes that have crossed at least 25k and some even 50k and I haven't really heard of any major issues. I am keeping it stock for now and feel satisfied with the power for my riding style. Hoping these turn out to be reliable motors.
I would fall back on tensioners past, at least check them out every 15k or so. I am sure they learned something but l am the suspicious type lol.
I loved my TC88. Mine was a 2002 and still had a carburetor. They definitely have the classic loping idle with a carb. Most people just don't have experience with a carb twin cam. The Softail and touring got fuel injection while only the dyna kept the carb up until 2002 or 03. But I can assure you a TC will produce that glorious idle with the best of them if it's fed by a carburetor 👍. Mine would fire up with one hit every time and go anywhere i told it to go. As I said in evo comment i really regret selling it. It truly was the last of the carbed big twin Harleys. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to buy another one
Those carbed bikes always sounded so awesome, the fuel injection is great but it doesn't have that lope.
@@GixxerFoo And why is the lope so much different ? My buddy has a 2002 Dyna and I have an `03 RK, his is carb`d, mine is a fuelie...same engine, different idle. Does the ignition have alot to do with it ?
Just an FYI Dyna kept the carb till 2005(last year). However Somehow some 2006's still have them. I currently ride a 2005 Dyna(FXD), with carb 88.
I have a carbureted 02 Electra Glide TC88 that I will never sell. My wife calls her “The Boneshaker” and the old girl is part of the family. And yes, I have had guys ask me on occasion if I would ever consider selling. Most recently, last summer at 4am one morning while filling up at a truck stop on a cross country ride. He actually gave me his business card in case I change my mind. (I do have a stage 1 & 2…. No tensioner issues now)
I have a 2005 FLHT that I ordered new, with a carburetor. Runs and sounds great. My TC88 is stock other than the cam chain tensioner & oil pump upgrade. Never had a single problem with it , just routine scheduled maintenance. This bike is a keeper.
I went all out with the S&S 100” big bore kit. Best thing I ever did. But note to all it’s not just under 3k like GixxerFoo tells ya. There is a lot more needed to unleash the full potential. My Dyno results are 111hp with 116 lbs torque!
Oh yeah you gotta have some good cams, exhaust, tune and even better upgrade the clutch while you're at it.
I love my Harleys, but let's face it after building motorcycles for 118 years you would think they could build the best most reliable motorcycle in the world.
Could probably build one to go 100/150K reliably with normal maintenance and no abuse.
Got 85K from my 2001 ElectroGlide Classic before I sold it in 2013.
Decided to have the camshaft chain tensioners checked at 50K and found them completely worn out. Fortunate I didn’t wait longer
If Harley Davidson had less lawyers and less bean counters and would let the engineers design the bike without budget constraints we could make it last for 300K miles. I have been a mechanical engineer for 40 years and I can tell you from experience that we don't always get to build what we design. It's always..."how can we make it cheaper"...."Price Point"... It has nothing to do with Engineering. It has to do with profit for the stockholders, price point and revenue. We know how to build it bullet proof but, if they won't let you ...well you see the results...Look as some of the Harleys that were made when AMF owned them.
Absolute junk for the very reason I stated above...
@@chuck7432 Mercedes seems to stay in business with this very business plan....
@@bqbquinn Yeah that was known by Harley but they won't admit it. If they did it would force a recall. I swapped mine out twice in 65K miles...The last time was with hydraulic tensioners that came with the Feuling 525 Reaper Cam Chest Kit...
We love Harleys not because they are the best and or reliable because they are not! we love them because new or old we always have the opportunity to modify or change something to make them unique, plus nothing in this world sounds like a Harley. 😊
Still went ahead and purchased a '02 FLSTS knowing the flaws. I can live with the upgrades needed because I like the bike and am willing to go that extra mile in order for the motor to live. In my opinion (everyone has one) the Heritage Springer is one of the best looking bikes any manufacturer has made to date.
S&S also offers the chain drive cam plate kit which is a forged plate and you can get that kit with the high volume oil pump as well and all of their cam plate kits come with the upgraded hydraulic cam chain tensioners. What I also like about the S&S kit is that the cam plate comes with the heavy duty bronze cam bushings installed instead of bushings simply cast and machined in the aluminum plate material itself. Bronze bushings are superior to aluminum.
I've looked at a few cam plate and oil pump kits and I think S&S makes a very good product.
Bronze is the way to go on any bushing, it wears better than steel and aluminum, doesn't come apart. S&S does things right with their products.
Guy near me has 130k on original crank. a few top ends and tensioners but with good
Maint they last longer than most people will ever ride
Dang 130k?! That's impressive, I have seen a bike in person with that many miles on the motor.
I put in the screaming eagle 95 kit on my 2002 FXDL (In 2008) and have not had any significant motor issues. Solid Motor. I would definitely say you will have to wrench on it somewhat regularly (Bike as a whole) but otherwise I love my old Dyna. Great and informative video!
Thank you, l appreciate you watching. That 95 is where it's at on the 88, wakes it up and reliably too. I love the older bikes more than any of the new stuff today.
@Lurch I don’t necessarily disagree with your assessment (coincidentally I am an Aviator lol) but I have to say converting my TC to 95ci and making gear driven vs spring tensioner has worked out quite well. Motor has plenty of power and reliability.
Newer M8s (114) are pretty decent motors imo and I’ve only upgraded the cam, air cleaner and exhaust. It’s been nothing but reliable as well.
Just goes to show those AMF days have had longer reputation builder than one might think.
I bought used 88 Heritage Softail with damaged chain tensioners, risky but cheap and turned out no much damage after opening camchest cover. I replaced with screaming eagle kit and mild Andrews TW 21 cams, put new lifters, adjustable push rods, new true dual exhaust system and couple other goodies. I did job by myself and love the bike. I have solid bottom as it is 2001 and currently 32 K, I already put over 6 k since I bought it. In the back of my head I have idea of upgrading to 95, maybe someday as so far I am perfectly happy. I love EVO but too much vibrations for me in that softail frame, I think 88 is still a great motor after you fix camchain tensioners issue.
That's exactly the point I am trying to get across, the 88's a great motor for someone who wants to buy it cheap and do the work themselves. Like you mentioned you have the good bottom end, with the Timken bearings you'd have no worries going to a 95. The 88 isn't for everyone, you have to do the work yourself and know what you're getting into.
You put in the best cam, ever! I have.them and love not having to rev the crap out of it to pass someone! And taking off under power at normal revs you can't really explain; they have to ride it to believe it.
41,000 on my 2005 TC88 (bought new) , cam chain tensioners replaced at 40,000. They were fine. Crank run out .002 Great motor, hoping to go another 40,000 😎
You definitely got a good motor then! Not everyone had that good of luck with their engine.
85,000 on my O5 uc
Just bought a ‘99 Road King with 83,000 km on it for 6k. Owner had no idea if/what work had been done. So I’ll be diggin’ in. Thanks for the tips man.
99 is a good year! For sure update that tensioner set in there, but it will have the solid crank setup.
Did the screaming eagle camplate upgrade on my 03 ultra. Has worked flawlessly, and gave me som peace of mind. The oil pressure gauge showed the effectiveness from the high flow oil pump, so its worth every penny.
Did you notice any heat reduction after the upgrade?
Twin cam are amazing motors!! And great for performance and stunt style riding, I love hearing a high compression twin cam bouncing off a hard limiter!!
I've got a 2002 RKC with the SE high cap oil pump hydro tensioners and a 204 cam. My stock tensioners were grooved with some pitting when I replaced them at around 34k miles. My HP is 76+ now and the bike screams with never ending power. I love the upgrade. Expensive with HD labor rates, but worth it. I absolutely love my classic.
You got it hooked up for the long haul and definitely worth the upgrade! The early 88's sound damn good!
@@GixxerFoo Absolutely. My oem headers were cracked in three places, so got them welded up. SE tips, and I love the sound of my bike. Nothing like it.
@@semperoccultus1969 Harley OEM headers are a lot better than people give them credit for, those are worth welding up for sure. Harley's headers with a set of slip on exhaust pull some damn good numbers on a dyno.
@@GixxerFoo Yup, and I got a TTS tuner to go with, so my bike dyno'ed at almost 77 HP and I think (I don't have the sheet in front of me) 91 torque... maybe. I'd have to look at it again.
That's solid numbers for an 02, those motors were more lnow for the high torque and you got it.
I agree...my 02 TC88 had the spring chain tensioners and bad bearings...issues - catastrophic motor failure. I wanted to keep my serial # matching so I sent the motor in to HD for the ReMan program and now upgraded to gear drive... the motor now runs like it should with plenty of Torque. These upgrades are still way cheaper then buying a new bike
That's no joke, l am a fan of their reman program. Especially since they upgrade your motor to current specs, also you can upgrade displacement as well. It's at a deep discount especially compared to buying a kit!
I'd bet money your free advice has saved tens of thousands of dollars.
I sure hope so, too many have found out the issues after they bought one.
I know Harley’s pretty well and have built my own engines. I can say you are spot on and you can even go more than 95ci
The 95 is a strong combination on the 88. It delivers plenty of power and torque. It's really a good deal if you do your own work like you and l do.
I went with the hydraulic tensioner, cam plate and oil pump upgrade somewhere around 40,000 to 45,000 miles in my TC 88. The stock tensioner was seriously worn by the time I had it changed.
how much did it cost to do that?
how much did it cost to do that?
@@brookebrawley2142 I don't exactly recall but I do remember that the kit retailed for $499.95 if I remember correctly. The kit included a cam plate, hydraulic tensioner and improved oil pump. I just checked Harley-Davidson's website and the kit now retails for $574.95. Keep in mind that this is for a twin cam motor and not an M8. I am not certain what is offered for the M8.
I had my cam chain guides changed out at 37,000 miles when I had Andrews TW26 cams installed. I am the original owner of a 2006 Road King FLHR/I and have only used Amsoil in the bike since it was broke in. There was a little pitting on the pad surface but they had not yet even started wearing a grove into the pads. Other then the pitting they were like new...
I went for the gear driven option. But the run out on crank has to be less than 3 thou. Mine was 5 was getting casings painted so got a tomkins bearing fitted at the same time. The exhaust cams were changed to keep the exhaust open longer this fixed the heat problem. That was 10K miles ago happy now.
You get a Timken bottom end and gear drive like you did, that's years of trouble free miles.
I just bought a 2002 like new heritage with 18k on it. I knew the tensioners were needing replaced asap. I paid $4200 for it and replaced the tensioners and now i have a like new heritage for WAY under $5000! I love it! PLENTY of power and ride like new.
That's a perfect example of why the used bikes are where it's at! Did you go back with springs or update to the hydraulic tensioner system?
@@GixxerFoo well I went back with springs this time so I could afford to get it back running asap but I'm already putting back money to go with at least hydraulic if not gears. When I do the next change I'm putting performance cams in too. Love ur channel too man!
Thank you! I appreciate it! There's nothing wrong with the springs as long as you keep up with them. The new spring tensioners don't have as much tension as the old OEM versions did. Still not a bad idea to update at all.
I think Harleys 99 / 02 carbureted Twin Cams are by far the best twin cams built even with the spring-loaded tensioner issue. The scary thing is I have seen engines fail with under 10,000 and a few that were pulled apart with under 20,000 that were close to failure. On the other side, I have pulled apart some with over 30,000 and the tensioners still looked new. All the engines mentioned had the oil changed every 3,000 miles or less. I think the difference all comes down to the cam chain itself. (This is only my opinion not based on fact.) I think this because the second set of tensioners appear to last longer. Is that because the chain ends up polished over time? Personally, I recommend gear cams because I have never measured an early twin cam with more than .002 runout. On another note, my stage 2 2013 Twin Cam has over 120,000 miles and still runs great and with a little luck, I hope to break 200,000 before splitting the cases.
That was the craziest thing about the 88's tensioners. Just goes to show how stout that Timken bottom end is with run out. That's impressive mileage on your twin cam, l hope you can hit 200k on it!
I had 70000miles without open the inspection cover.2003 88B carb free breather
All I heard was that I am safe because I own a 2002 TC 88. And I can put a big bore kit on it without worrying about my crank. I just upgraded the cam chest with the new oil pump hydraulic cam chain tensioners, 525 fueling cam. My next move is a 98 inch big bore kit with some mild head work
just read the entire thread, best tc88 thread I have read to date! nice work y'all.
We've got some awesome viewers on this channel and some great conversation!
When i picked up my 1999 TC 88 , 50k mile RK. Found spring cam tensioners worn out. I went with stock H-D cam plate, hydraulic tensioner, upgrade to conversion cams. I rode it for another 30K and sold it, no issues. That bike felt bullet proof.
88's are solid motors once you get that tensioner upgraded.
Great video, keep the TC engine going. the best engine Harley Davidson ever made!
Will do! A lot of people heard the stories about the 88 and won't touch em, but they aren't bad engines at all.
I've had an 88 (Deuce in profile pic), 96" DWG and now 103 Ultra. I didnt care for the 96. Felt sluggish. 88 sounded and ran great was just lacking top end speed. 103 has been great so far it feels more balanced on top and bottom end speeds than the smaller brothers. Overall unless I'm buying a shovel or pan I will only buy TC engines.
Bought my Softail Standard new in 2001. Was warned about the cam chain tensioner shoes in 2013 at 35k miles. Inspected them myself at the time and they were pretty well on the way out. Opted for the Screamin' Eagle hydraulic solution because it was more economical at the time. Rode 50k Los Angeles freeway miles to work over the next three years until I moved to South Carolina in 2016. Ol' Blue has over 86K original miles as I approach 20 years of ownership in April, 2021. THE CARBURETED TWIN CAM 88 IS THE BEST, BOMBPROOF ENGINE, EVER!! Every seal and gasket has probably been replaced over the years, kept the fluids changed regularly and it's been laid down a handful of times but I would own this Harley over any of the junk they put out today. I rode this bike from Los Angeles to Washington, D.C. after 9/11 and was the greatest adventure of my life. It also has a great classic appearance. I was a relatively new rider at 48 when I bought it. At that time, the demand was high and inventory was low. The whole HD branding thing was just getting started but seven years later the economy takes a major dump everything gets turned around. But this motorcycle of mine just keeps going and now I'm 68 and enjoying it still. Found me a great indy mechanic , too. Good luck to everyone!
That's awesome! You've got your money's worth out of that motorcycle! That's the best part about a Harley is being able to keep them forever like that. You made one hell of a cross country trip on that bike, that was back before the bagger craze and thinking you need a giant touring bike to make trips like that. You've got the key to the longevity, just fix what it needs and keep on going. Harley doesn't build them like they used to like that 88, nice to hear you're hanging onto it!
@@GixxerFoo Thanks for the "Like" and for your thoughtful comment. I have to confess though...in 2007 I traded it to a dealer in NJ for a new Road King which I hated from the moment I brought it home. First model year of the TC 96 & the six speed transmission. Absolute horror show on wheels. Noisy fifth gear and the bike ran so hot (fuel injection) that I couldn't stand the heat at a stop sign or light. The made the engine bigger but it still had the same EPA constraints. Wrote to Harley-Davidson, their board of directors and to anyone who would listen about how much I hated this bike. I wanted it to work for me. I was so used to the Softail that perhaps I didn't like the balance of a touring bike...I don't know. But I pretty much scolded HD for putting bikes out to production with such inherent issues. I did the homework and discovered I wasn't the only one who was angry over this. I chose NOT to live with it.
One day I get a call from the GM at the Harley store where I purchased the Road King. She invited me to come in for a conversation. Well. it wasn't just with her. Every manager in the joint sat in at that meeting...Service, Sales, Parts, even motor clothes! Each concluded the same...buyers remorse. I told them no way. Like anything else, when you're in the show room you get carried away and a fellow rider friend convinced me it was time to "move on up". I was offered free oil changes, motor clothes, heat shields and some bling to trick it out a little. I told them none of that was going to improve the The GM then pulled a woman's point a view by smiling and saying..."But Mike, It's such a pretty bike!" Where I replied, "yeah, it is that. But you can put whipped cream on a piece of S__T, it still ain't a cupcake..." Her sweet smile turned to a grim business face and asked, "What do you want then?" I said, "My Softail." She turned to Mr. Sales and asked if they even still had it, he checked the inventory and, yes, it's in the warehouse. I said go ahead and re-write the contract from the Road King to re-sell the Softail back to me. THAT'S how desperate I was. She said, no, we won't do that. Instead, she re-opened the balance of what I owed on the Softail, added a $1,000.00 depreciation and offered me a six year ESP. Done and done. I had tears in my eyes riding Ol' Blue home and still with me 13 years later.
Thanks for letting me share.
I don't blame you at all for getting your old bike back! Yeah l gotta be honest that would of pissed me off if someone said that to me a meeting. I have heard some dealer horror stories, there are some shady ones. I am very fortunate to have a wonderful local dealer, people come from all over to do business with them. They are really straight forward and honestly very small for a Harley dealer.
My 2000 TC got 52,000 on the original cam chain tensioner. It looked really good when I replaced it with the new design hydraulic tensioner
It's crazy how some of those motors went that long and others failed before 15K. I dunno if it was a bad run of tensioners or what, but no two motors are exactly alike.
I'm pushing 13k miles on my 88 now. I'm upgrading to the hydraulic tensioners and high flow oil pump this spring some time.
I've had four Harley's with 88's. Three injected models and a carbed '05 Springer Classic I currently ride.
Never, not once have I had any issues with any of the 88's I have owned. Total miles bewteen all 4? About 150,000.
That's awesome to hear, to many people had tensioner issues early on with low mile motors. It must of been a bad run, built on a Monday or Friday before a holiday weekend.
My 03' Wide Glide has over 36K miles and when I checked the cam tensioners, they were as fresh as the day she was born. Solid motor, solid parts.
The Cam Tensioner problem was ironed by; seems like by 2005.. 2006 twin cams are rock solid and first year with the rear cylinder deactivation for heat... 2007 twin cam was bumped up from 87 to 96
Ken Tyson
I had the first year of the FLHX with the 96 and the 6 speed as well. No issues there either.
150000 miles on four TV 88's impressive, almost beats my 1990 FLHTC evo that I've had since she was new with 290 km ( 179000 miles) and the motors never been touched. Took Harley 90 years to finally build a good engine and then they f*** it up.
I have 6 Harleys and my 2000 softail has a 98 hp 88 inch built to a 95 inch and its such a great motor I've rode it like a cheap hooker hard for the last 10 plus years and makes me wish I had more 88's... i kinda think 88 was the best motor performance wise they have produced. we also got a reliable 119 hp out of my buddies fuel injection 88 🤷♂️ thanks for the input on bearings, I'm getting ready to do cams and heads on couple other bikes I have.
I've said for years don't count out that short stroke 88, converting those to a 95 they can really make some impressive power like you've seen!
I have a 2000. I would really like to ask you some questions. I have a guy who is trying to help me, but he can't write or spell worth a damn, and I can't figure out what he's trying to say.
I currently have a 2001 Road King Classic with 50 some thousand miles, fuel injected. I love it! Never once had a problem with the engine. I've also got a 2002 Heritage Softail Springer, carbureted with 60 some thousand miles. That bike Is absolutely perfect! I get compliments every time I take it out. I took it from New Mexico to Milwaukee for the 115th with no issues. And I just bought a 2015 CVO Street Glide with the 110. I'm curious to see how it does.
Dang you got a stable of sweet bikes! Sounds like you ride them too! I'm curious to see how your 110 does as much as you ride.
@@GixxerFoo Thanks, I bought the CVO used with 41,000 already on it. I bought it to take it to Milwaukee in 3 years. I haven't received it yet. I literally just bought it and they are shipping it from California. So I'm curious too.
@@rorycalhoun5853 Damn, lol l have never bought a bike and had it shipped like that. Well the best way to buy a CVO is used like that. The CVO is the biggest value loss of any Harley if you buy one new.
2000 WIDE GLIDE , HAD THE CAM CHAIN AND TENTIONERS CHECKED AT 32,OOO MILES AND LOOKED GOOD!!!! BUT I NEVER ABUSED THE BIKE AND KEPT EVERYTHING MAINTAINED!!!!!
I have two TC88 bikes. I will change the cam chain tensioners on my own, but those are the last two HDs I will ever buy. HD should have fixed this design flaw before of these bikes were sold.
Agreed. Fortunately you can do it yourself, so many people got screwed that don't do their own work and had to pay the dealer to do it.
@DrLove if this was No small wear and tear, then it should be in the manual. This is not normal, this is 100% design screw up. HD still not not even acknowledge this problem. Normal wear should be in the manual
Awesome advice ..Going to get mines checked Brought my 2000 RK 3 years ago with 43000 now have 48000 Going to get mines check
Not a bad idea with that kinda mileage!
I have the screaming eagle edition carburated!!! I'm currently rebuilding it now.
What year is your bike?
@@GixxerFoo it's an 02 wideglide
Dang foo! My wife and I said we would never own a HD . I have been irritated with Harley for what they have done over the years. Your breakdown of the TC 88 has got me looking at some Electra Glides that I actually can afford. Thank you for your info and making it clear to understand. Good info when asking owner about upgrades and repairs done!!!
That's awesome to hear! The 88's are really some very reliable engines once you get the cam chest upgraded. Just another tip if you get a 99 to 02, get the carb version and stay away from the Magnetti Marelli fuel injection. But don't get a fuel injected bike unless it has the Delphi fuel injection.
@@GixxerFoo I was able to purchase a 2012 Ultra Classic a couple weeks ago. What a sweet ride. Your videos helped in my year choice and things to ask the owner about the bike.
my 03 Rk had 29k on it when i bought it. I put a 37G cam in it. the shoe was cracked in half. It was just about to fail any sec.
Damn you caught that just in time! That could of been a major disaster if that would of let loose!
Hi GixxerFoo, Just changed my cam chain tensioners on my 2000 Fat boy, the mileage was 34000, if I could have viewed the inner tensioner properly, I wouldn't have bothered changing them. Stay safe from across the pond in England.
Thank you! Yeah the inner is a pain to try and inspect, sometimes people will change the outer unaware there is an inner as well.
@@GixxerFoo Wow ! I also fitted a Feuling pump, S&S inner bearings and a Baisley pressure relief valve. Any idea why Feuling spell it the way they do. Happy biking from England.
Love my 88s, I've got a roadking and a dyna wide glide for less then one 103 bike. My dyna holds it own against 103s and 107s well up until about 60 anyway.
The short stroke of the 88 really has its advantages, l personally like the the shorter stroke. You get more stop light to stop light.
Just went with gear drive. I've got an '01 FXDX with timkin bearings. New S&S mid range cams, supertrapp. Cant wait to see how she runs
Very nice, you've got the solid bottom end! It should do great with that gear drive in there!
Well dang, was just about to start doing some hop ups on my 03 fatboy, now reconsidering.
Depending how deep your going into the motor it's not too hard to change that output shaft bearing on the left side.
Really I was only thinking of doing a cam kit as I already knew of the chain tensioners and good tune, it’s only done 3700miles to me it’s only just broken in so I don’t really want to tear into it
A set of cams won't hurt anything, it's when you start adding big bore kits and high er compression is when you really need to change the output shaft bearing.
Yeah okay cool, also being carby do you know if it has a rev limiter? I never have turned it that hard to find out but can’t find online if it dose or it will just got till valve float?
Being carburated the stock ignition module should cut it off about 5800 rpm, it should start to stutter around that range.
One thing you need to check. If you have a TC88 with a stock headpipe, take off the chrome dress shield on the back cylinder head on the righ side of the bike and inspect the pipe. They have a nasty habit of cracking...Mine did and I found it by accident. No telling how long I had been riding around with it cracked but if you have excessive heat coming from the rear cylinder that cooks your leg, inspect the pipe. The crack if big enough lets air in causing the back cylinder to run extremely lean...That makes it run hot and sooner or later you will cook it..
That's a excellent point! Back on the carbed bikes you couldn't tune that rear cylinder individually like we can today with fuel injection to cool that rear cylinder down.
@@GixxerFoo Yep, I have two different fuel mixtures set on my Thundermax. The rear cylinder is always going to run hotter because it doesn't get that great of air flow for cooling. That being said, a hotter cylinder needs less fuel but running it too lean increases the Delta T by a bunch from the front cylinder. That is what usually cracks the crossover pipe.So my back cylinder is running 2% enriched compared to my front cylinder
My tensioner on my 2000 Ultra went out on me at Myrtle bike week last month. My mech told me it ate the tension spring as well. So he recommended the Feuling 525 plate set-up $1700 for whole kit. Absolutely feel better powerful performance. By the way my tensioner went out probably 1500 miles ago and never noticed it.
You're mechanic steered you right, Feuling makes solid products. 1700 for the kit isn't cheap but it's worth it. Glad it didn't shell your motor, that's the crappy part is that there is no warning.
@@GixxerFoo Got that right... learning as I go.
You won't have to worry about it anymore with the gear system. Does it have a high volume oil pump too?
@@GixxerFoo actually it did get a upgrade oil pump
When I had the hydraulic tensioners put on my TC88---they gave me an 80,000 mile guarantee.
That's awesome to hear! What brand and what mods do you have done to the motor?
@@GixxerFoo I bought the 2002 Road King in 2013 and it had the high flow air cleaner on the carb, and it runs really well and I have never had trouble keeping up with guys on TC96s--so I am guessing that it has the 95in displacement upgrade. The hydraulic tensioners are the screaming eagle ones (those I had done at a Harley Dealership). I have Screaming eagle street cannon hi-flow exhaust with true duals and I replaced the standard CV carb with an S&S super E. One thing, which I think is common to all touring models, is the shift linkage that is fragile. You have to keep an eye on it. If it starts to get loose or wobble a little, tighten it right away or you will be taking the whole primary off to put a new inside shift lever on or maybe even a new shaft on the transmission. That is all that I have done to it. She has 70,000 miles on her and running like a dream.
I remember the linkage issues, when l was younger l dated a girl who's dad was the the man in service at the local indy shop. He was always working on shifter linkage for people!
Wow that is nice
03 RoadKing. 78,000 miles. Carburetor. Only use natural oil with zinc and copper. Never has had a wrench on the motor. Original everything including sparkplugs. 7 rear tires, 4 front tires. 4 rear brakes, 2 front brakes. On the second battery. The most trouble free, reliable, easiest starting and smooth running vehicle I've ever owned. May change sparkplugs at 100,000, we'll see...
You have never put any plugs in it? Have you had it since it was new?
Another question. How do you feel about using the 07-11 hydraulic cam plate, and oil pump in place of the 99-06 version? I know Woods and and Andrews has a conversion kit to do such.
It's one of the best upgrades out there for an 88, l wouldn't go back with the spring tensioners if l had it apart already.
there is a third alternative you haven't mentioned. just put inspection as part of your 15k mile maintenance. the first time you need replacement, cut the pushrods out and replace with adjustable to make the job easier in the future.it is the cheapest solution to the tensioner question.
That's a really good idea!
I have a 2000 Fatboy, Mikuni carb, with Andrews 26 gear drive cams that I put in the bike in 2001. Currently have 125K miles and the bike runs great! I do my own wrenching on this bike and wouldn't trade it in for the new Harleys if you paid me. Just way to much electronic crap on them!!
Doing your own work is the way to go, the new ones just aren't built like the one you have. Is your 125k with the original top and bottom end?!
The TC 88 engine has flaws like other Harley Davidson motors, but you can fix those problems upgradable aftermarket parts. they are reliable, and last along time, just check the cam tensioners about 15,000 miles to 17,000 miles and you will be set, and do oil changes every 2500to 3000 miles.
You're right they have their issues but it's nothing that can't be fixed. Tensioners are the main issues, crazy how some failed before 15k and others never had an issue.
H-D recalls of this part can be verified from VIN #.
Harley never exactly came out and admitted the issue, the lucky owners were able to get it taken care of quietly. I'm amazed how some bikes went 50 to 60k without an issue and many failed before 15k.
I’m one of the lucky guys with that 99 Road King 95 and still runs Fantastic
I have 2 evo's, best in my book
They are some dang good motors, a lot of people are discovering this and the price is starting to go up on good used Evo's.
Had 36K on my 99 WG ....Looked damn near new yet...To be honest, I did the Case bearing upgrade, new bearings in the plate, stock cams looked good yet so they went back in, 20% zippers oil spring, re-used the lifters and oil pump and did rocker lockers. local shop spring tensioners.... Harley though, so its still adds up quick.
Yeah ain't nothing cheap about that Harley tax, but they are fun to ride!
All you need to know-its not an EVO.
Yeah, that Evo was hard to beat for power, sound and reliability.
95 EVO stage 3 wheelie beast!!
I bought a 99 twin cam road king w 70K miles few years ago, shoes were almost gone so replaced them and still running strong at 77K
Very nice! They aren't bad motors at all, very reliable. Especially those early models, just keep up on the shoes and maintenance and they will run forever.
Unpopular opinion... twin cam was the best engine harley ever made...
👍 most say Evo, but they all have their highs and lows. Every engine they made has things that need to be sorted out.
I agree. The twin cam really built on the Evos success. M8 can kiss my posterior
even Gixxerfoo disagrees with you🤣
@@maddog7999 Why l gotta be drug into this 😄😂
Nah
As usual great info. I wasn't aware r of the timing lower end till this video, makes me more comfortable with my 02 RKC upgrades happening this winter. Fuelng cam plate, tensioner, oil pump, lifters, 543 cams. Hammer 98 inch kit 10.5 compression and behive springs kit. All I have left is headwork. Mild porting and spring setup. Looking for a recommendation?
Oh yeah one last thing. That shelf behind you is one quart of oil away from catastrophic failure! It sags more every video lol.
Holy crap autocorrect. The Timken lower
Im not 100% sure but i think he used a picture of a 96 six speed for the thumb nail lol
Good catch, it was an 88 when it began life. Aftermarket (Screamin Eagle) transmission and a lot of updates and upgrades.
I've got what I call the last of the good sounding bikes. 2002 fatboy carbureted twin cam 88. My tensioner were shot at 24000 miles
You can't beat the sound of the carb bikes, you've got the last year of the Timken bottom end too!
Great video man, thanks!
You're welcome, l appreciate you watching!
I did not read through all the comments. It should be mentioned that Harley had a recall for cam plate failure. My (at the time) 1999 dynawide glide was brought in under this recall and repaired. I put a S&^t load of miles on that bike and never had a problem.
That's the weird thing, some bikes had no issue ever. Others grenaded before 15k miles, bad parts run, built on a holiday, which knows for sure.
I fixed both my twin cams permanently, I sold both of them and bough a low mileage 98 Fatboy problem solved.
Lol well that's one way to get it done, how many miles on that Evo?
@@GixxerFoo 28767 miles garage kept one owner complete with maintenance log owners manual and shop manual.
That's a hell of a deal, one owner with all the documentation and the manuals is hard to beat!
@@GixxerFoo I was lucky the guy who bought it new was an old guy like me and took great care of it. The only change he made was he upgraded the exhaust. He had sold it to move out of state. The guy who bough it had a issue with his wife and returned it the day before the guy was moving. He called me and i made a stupid low offer and he took it. Best bike deal I made in 40 years.
😮 wow! Dang l could never get that lucky to fall into a deal like that!
great vid, you are the first person that could detail the 95 kit, including Harleys website which doesn't have the details. I bought an 88 fxdli ( low rider with fxdx suspension) the owner said it had the 95 kit but no receipts. he did have the 1550 derby cover so there is that. I'll take your advice on the inspection, thanks.
Thank you, l appreciate you watching and your support! I am a fan of the Low Rider, it's one of my favorites! Yeah you'd have to pull the head to know for sure if it's a 95ci.
Harley should have never have these issues like this!, instead of being a t shirt and aftermarket parts company they need to hire some engineers that design a motor that after 15,000 miles you have to throw thousands of dollars at it. unacceptable
Yeah the tensioner failure never should of happened, that was bs.
You are so right in 2006 I just trusted them it was harley davidson boy was that a mistake I should have done my diligence 9. I know I will never buy another new one ever. I will stick to the shovel and evo I have put countless miles on both with very few problems they might be slower but I an in my sixties and they all go fast enough for these days and nothin sounds better than a shovel with drag pipes no brag just fact
Those shovels and Evos just have a classic sound they haven't truly replicated since.
It's called "planned obsolescence". Most American companies started adopting this policy in the 90's. Some were far before that but it gained major traction in the 90's.
It's a catch 22.
You can eliminate the cam shoes BUT this engine is prone to developing too much crank run out to run a Gear Drive. What's worse is even if your crank run-out is within spec to run a Gear Drive that doesn't mean that your run out increase later and destroy your Gear Drive.
I chose to just replace my tensioner shoes with better quality aftermarket ones and check and replace them as needed. It's also a good idea to upgrade those inner cam bearings well you have the cams out. The inner bearings are cheap an easy to change while you're already in there.
That's a good point, just about any quality cam kit will come with new bearings too.
Harley should have sorted it out before they hit hit the show room floor no wander there going broke
Oh I agree, as much time in development as Harley put into it you think they would've caught those issues before it was released.
The problem is not the company it is the persons who buy the bikes only lawyers and doctors can afford one LoL seriously the problem lies with the service most people just hop on it and expect it to run forever maybe only stressing to change oil but a bike of any model requires MASSIVE service heck most European bikes require valve adjustment the average blue collar American including the poser grungy bikers guys would cringe at the idea of tear down to do regular service on intervals these are the same guys that can not lite a pilot light or fix a water leak my point is these bikes have 20, 30, 40, 50k miles with no real service performed they just get started revved up rode like heck & then the owners whine cause it has problems an analogy would be if I drove a car & never changed brakes heck eventually it will be a problem
I completely agree, fluids are important but you still have to take a wrench to every nut and bolt. Throughly inspect and listen to every little sound on the bike. Don't put off fixing a little noise that sounds odd. Loose metal likes to travel in those motors.
I think Harley thinks, "planned Obsolescence" in design parts like failing timing tensioner pads! H-D would have started out with gears an had no problems in first place!
EPA was the reason they went with the chains, noise reduction to satisfy the feds.
I bought an 06 fatty last summer had 185000 on it. Explicitly taken care of I'm the second owner .Previous owner passed so I got it from his son who knows nothing about the bikes history. He did give me a case of syn3 oil said all his dad used in it. Still better take a look at the tensioners.
Synthetic oil does a lot for the tensioners, Royal Purple tested it and showed marked improvement and longevity on the tensioners. I would still check them out though just to be safe.
buyer: yea im trying to buy your old 88ci....let me pull the motor apart
seller: na man
That's basically how it is buying an 88, you just have to assume going in your going to inspect and be ready to replace or upgrade. I personally wouldn't just buy one and ride off into the sunset assuming it's fine.
In 2006 I believe HD went to a roller style cam chain and upgraded the tensioner shoe material to rectify the issue somewhat.
They did have the hydraulic tensioners on the Dyna's 88 in 06, the Softail and Touring bikes still had the spring tensioner for 06.
@@GixxerFoo exactly why I bought my 06 Street bob. Just wish HD used the locating pins to connect the primary case to the trans that year.
TCs and M8s are Yamaha Road Star Clones. Big difference is that Yamaha did it right.
🤔 now that you mention that, the M8 is suspiciously similar to the Yamaha...
Spoked and cast wheels are suspiciously similar...
They do have tubeless spokes now...
Hi @GixxerFoo, I know this video is 2 years old, which, for internet standards is an eternity, but I have a doubt so, even "late", I'm gonna ask for your orientation. Hope I'm lucky enough to receive your attention.
I'm a owner of a 2002 carburated Softail Deuce which I love.
I bought it 10 years ago with just 6200mi on the odometer, now it has 60000mi. Last inspection of cam tensioners revealed that they were worn to the point where the metal was beginning to show. Luckly, the single side effect of that was that my stock cams suffered "scratches" on its lobbes. Well, I replaced them for used ones (they were perfect, showing no signs of use) that give me the impression that they are slightly more strong. At least the bike is running with much more oomph and, after 3500 RPM, the motorcycle awakes like a hungry (and angry) beast. I'm pretty happy with that.
I have a K&N washable air cleaner, Lockhart oil cooler and a pair of VH Shortshots. That V&H are great pipes indeed, but too loud and, besides the fact that I live in a residential area of a major city, I'm getting tired of so much noise on longer trips (about 3000 mi).
I'm thinking, therefore, to go back to the full stock exhaust sistem for its quietness.
Here (finally) follows the question.
If I'm correct and the newer cams that are now fitted on the motorcycle are, lets say, stronger than the stock ones, will the more restrictive stock exhaust be a problem for the bike? Do I need to stick to the more free flow V&H in order to keep the bike running ok?
All the best and peace from Brazil.✌
I have to add, you've got a new subscriber.
Going to a stock exhaust is going to choke your horsepower and torque, the short shots are loud even with quiet baffles. You could go the Screamin Eagle slip-on route with the stock head pipe, if you can find some SE mufflers. I would suggest going with another after market exhaust, pretty much anything you like other than the short shots with quiet baffles will knock the sound down quite a bit. You'll still get excellent power, the top end horsepower will be down a bit but you'll have awesome torque with quiet baffles!
@@GixxerFoo
Thank you so much for answering so fast and also, of course, for your advice.
I will look for some after market quiet mufflers to fit together with the stock headers.
Once again, thank you.
Peace from Brazil. ✌
I have an 03 i bought used an first thing i did was change to gear driven cams .
The gear drive is big bucks but the way to go if you can spare the cash!
I wished I seen this video before I just got a 2000 FatBoy with 52, 000 miles. There is no chin nose coming from the cam shift . I will planning on checking out the tensioner make sure it’s good. But I like to put add gear tensioner . Thank you for this video
Seriously!! 15000 miles!! Fire everyone at HD and start again!!
Some say it was a bad run or cam chains that ate up tensioners, I think mainly it was too much spring tensioner tension or they wouldn't of developed the hydraulic system. Worst part is they never recalled it, they just quietly fixed it at dealers if someone had an issue.
Now that I've changed out the tensioners to hydraulic and upgraded the oil pump in my 06 fatboy I feel good about my motorcycle as far as dependability. This is my last Harley, too bad I don't have the Timken bearing in my bottom end but I don't do much hotroding anymore seeing I'm 69 and have slowed down considerably. I was afraid of going to gear drive even though my runout was only 1.5k