#1 cause of engine failure as I recall being a mechanic for some years - was nearly always coolant related. If a problem with cooling system didnt take out its engine - then it at least spelled out the the beginning of the end. Pay attention to cooling system!
I look at my temp gauge religiously. Actually, funny story - in my manual Civic, the speedometer doesn’t work. I was explaining to a coworker that I didn’t need the speedo to work, I didn’t need the gas gauge to work, I didn’t even need the tach to drive (you could feel out the shifts), but the one thing I absolutely needed to drive was the temp gauge. You have to know the second you start to overheat
@@Lukebarcaif you don't like every 40k and you drive hard or in hot areas you will blow your head gasket and that can be worse than destroying your transmission.
@LOVEisACTIONABLE I got it done a few days after I saw this. It was dirty, and I just replaced the pump. I think coolant is overlooked by a lot of people.
The Standard "Dust" they refer to is actually "Arizona Road Dust". We worked for Pratt & Whitney making engines and fuel systems. Filter testing was always a part of each Engine qualification. In our case, we would mix up POUNDS of dust and kept it agitated in a drum to be pumped to the engine test cell. Pall Corporation is the leading manufacturer of fuel and oil filters for commercial aircraft engines.
The ASTM / SAE / OSU (Oklahoma State Univ.) - F1 particle test stand - specification for IC engines for many years 'was' 20 micrometers (µM) as the **most damaging particle**, now being upgraded to much lower µM by the more 'sophisitcated' engine manufacturers. Recirculating oil filters do not filter to 100% removal; but, are 'statistical reduction devices' ..... depending on how quickly these particles 'eventually' are retained. However most of these particals in nature have an electronic surface charge, and the filter media (resinated paper) are designed/selected to have the opposite electronic surface charge - electronic attraction. The faster (and more volume of oil) the contaminated recirculating oil flows 'through' a filter - so, the more efficient filter will have the larger amount of filter paper surface area for less pressure drop and more rapid 'turnover' of the oil in the sump. However due the surface charge effect of particles and filter media once thoroughly contaminated, the particles will tend to 'agglomerate' (stick/'clump') together into larger and larger and large particles - that is why one changes both the oil AND the filter AT or before the OEM recommended changeout interval ..... remembering that the OEM changeout interval was based on highway speed /steady state (cruise contol ON) driving. For non-steady state, stop and go city driving - change the oil at HALF the recommended interval (..... especially on IC engines that have 'loose tension' piston rings - virtually all IC engines since about 2010-12 due to their propensity to build up (from blow-by) carbon deposits 'behind' the piston rings and with tendancy for the now 'stuck' rings from moving; hence **stuck** engine piston rings and the higher probability of catastrophic cylinder wall wear !!!!). Rx: If predominantly (90%) driving 'highway speeds' follow the OEM changeout specification. For 'city driving' which involves a LOT accelerating and decelerating and idling ... change the oil an d filter at HALF the OEM changeout recommendation. Rx: Always choose the filter with the largest 'surface area' (number of pleates). USA, EU and Japanese filters are the choice .... and are typically supplied with a resinated filter paper from a single world supplier - Ahlstrom of Finland, or equivalent etc. .... stay away from Chinese, etc. made oil filters which are 'variable' and inconsistant in filter retention. However, NEVER choose an oil filter with a 'smaller/finer' µM retention specification ... as all you will do is SLOW DOWN the particle removal from the oil .... with MUCH LESS oil 'turnover' through the filter, Lastly, Changing the oil at or BEFORE the recommended changeout interval is one hell of a lot CHEAPER than changing prematurely to a NEW vehicle or replacement engine. I usually get ~200-300k+ miles from my IC engines (I rarely 'beat' my engines). Was a filtration engineer (Pall Corp, etc.) for ~30 years).
GM used to sell that dust in a large poly bottle with an AC Delco part number (maybe they still do?). We used it for a lot of different development tests.
@@richh1576re your ...."witha smaller/finer (size symbol) retention specification": i ask, than what? Most if not all filters available for sale here in the U.S of mainstream brands range tween 20 and 30 microns.
@@TotalSeal The BEST engine oil filter on the planet...in every aspect...is WIX-XP. Believe me, I've done extensive tests on every brand available to the average consumer. WIX-XP beats them all on every level. Best regards, Ben
The WIX XP isn't as efficient as many others on the market, and those other filters that are much more efficient also flow just as good as the WIX XP. Independent lab ISO 4548-12 testing proves that. It would have been nice to see that same particle count test done after running a filter that's rated at 99% efficient @ 20 microns and greater. The WIX XP is only around 62% efficient @ 20 microns and greater.
Filtration is tough. I ran a satellite diesel shop for a major trucking company and they decided to save money on oil by staying with conventional oils and regular oil changes. The reason is that even though the synthetic oils are up to the task of longer oil change intervals, filtration is not! The oil would still get too much contamination and require regular changes. I still service my cars by this same principle 20 years later.
Probably smart… I had a 1981 Benz 240D for 26 years put 226,000 miles on it used original filters and change oil every 1500 miles Chevron 400 plus 15w-40, my mother still has her 1985 Benz 300CD with 108,000 miles… like new. Changed oil same oil as above every 1000 miles. Got to remember lots of stop and go in LA. Why use that heavy duty truck petroleum oil… well Chevron made everything in the bucket… buy the 5 gal. Buckets from the local Chevron distributor in Santa Ana. They would fill the buckets from a huge 5000 gallon tank. About $40 a bucket then.
As a mechanical engineer I thought this test was great and quite educational to me. Thank you, good job, and please keep these coming. Besides the info, your presentations kept me interested.
Very informative. I went out to the shop and pulled off my steel mesh 45-micron filter and installed a WIX #57099 oil filter. This is on a .030" over bored 454 moderate street build. Five hundred and ten (510) horsepower on the dyno. Thanks, gentlemen and Cheers!
Was it a WIx filter? He had a Napa Gold in his hand when they started. I didn't hear them say the brands tested? The Gold is 23 microns and enhanced cellulose.
For filtration level, filtration capacity, pressure drop and percent bypass it is hard to beat Mobile one filters. Some people switch over to them on hydraulic oil systems where they outperform expensive micron rated filters.
For consistency’s sake, it might be better to mix up a double batch of oil at the start instead of 2 separate batches to ensure both test will have the same particle level in the oil.
If that is a flat tappet cam I bet the cam got hit hard. Paper filters are hard to beat for function. I see the same with air filters s good paper keeps things clean but takes a lot of surface area to not be restrictive. K&n style filters flow like crazy but let a lot of dirt go by
@@mnrodriguez Same here, but I clean them annually and re-oil them as the oil is part of the particle capture. I follow the instructions and don't over oil them ever. Never had an issue with a sensor (MAF) and I tend to keep my cars between 100k miles and 200k miles without any noticeable wear (oil usage).
Would be nice to see a FilterMag incorporated into one of the test. Have been using them for decades. I use a cutting tool made by FilterMag to cut open my used filters. You would be amazed at the amount of metallic sludge that is held to the sidewall of the filter can. Great content guys 👍🇺🇲👊
I like that the magnet stays on the side instead of the end to keep anti drain back seal clear. This will reduce the clogging up of metal only near the magnet thus cutting off flow messing up the anti drain back valve
Have a magnetic drain plug on my 77 vette and it works . It is one item I can not find for my new hybrid .America Ford .Who cells magnetic drain plugs?
@@DENicholsAutoBravadoThe old story about the old mechanic revising his bill to show: Time tapping machine with hammer $1, Knowing where to tap $999 reinforces the fact that time isn’t the measure of value. Some people can talk forever and not say anything. TikTok is living proof views and influence (and therefore ad $) has zero to do with length of content.
@@mechwatchdogyes, and some users wanted to watch how the engine performed with all that metal. Some may even go back to each test and snap picks of the graph and see if they could see a statistical change. Could it have been made more entertaining by being shorter? Maybe, but people wanting to learn to the maximum would be disappointed.
Did I see you fill the filter after you mixed in the ferrous powder ?? that kind of defeats having the filter, does it not ??? thought the tests would show how much the filter trapped??
I knew it! The disturbed filter companies came for you. I noticed the mark on your neck made by their attacks. Glad that you are still alive to provide such a good content to make our cars live longer. Long live!
I saw no mention of the bypass valve that is used to make sure that is oil flow if filter gets clogged. this was famous in chevy vega when oil was too thick and cold , fitter would blow out the seal and leak all over ground. Also the chrysler slant six where the oil pressure was so low oil light would flash at idle. I remember being told at a Fram covention that oil filters only work up to 25-30 psi then bypass valve would allow unfiltered oil to continue through motor .
Fresh Oil ISO 16 27 Micron Paper Filter ISO 19 (17,000 particles removed, No Power Loss) 35 Micron Wire Mesh Screen Filter ISO 22 (4,000 particles removed, Lost 10HP in an Hour) Great work! Love the videos, keep'em coming!
These results were amazing, great job! Before you wrap up, give the old-school 'toilet paper roll' oil filter a test. You do recall the Franz filter don't you?
Lake Jr thank you for sharing all these awesome videos with great tests and information. My 2002 Suburban 5.3l with 163,000 miles has always had its oil changed at 5000 miles with full synthetic by Driven HR oil. Suburban runs super strong with awesome torque just like it was new and its stock as can be. Can’t even hear the thing idling when you stand 10 ft away from it. Can’t even feel it when it’s idling when I’m at a traffic light idling. a must keep that filter and oil clean. 😊
Years ago on air cooled roller crank bikes they used screen filters along with centrifugal filters and a magnetic drain plug to capture particles in oil . The temperatures in those air cooled motors could reach 300 degrees . The engines carried only 2 quarts and this was conventional oil . Along with that the engine was sharing the oil with the transmission ! I never put more than 500 miles on the oil and cleaned the screen filter and magnets every time . Friends always wondered what I had done to make my bike run better than theirs ! lol It was my secret ! 😅
Years ago, we would add the bypass Franz type filter to the regular full flow filter system. We would check and change the filter in the Franz every thousand miles. On top of the filter element we could see what might be changing in the motor as far as wear. A couple of times we saw something that caused us to go in the motor and see what was going on. Is was a good thing we did. This helped prevent more damage to the motor, as the filter showed bearing material on one occasion. On all motors we built over the years, we would block the bypass in the housing where the filter would go on. You did not rev the motor when the oil was cold when you did this. This stopped all metal from doing any bearing damage from a camshaft losing a lobe, or other problem that could contaminate the oil.
I am a fsirly good DYI mechanic, and i have been changing oil for overv 40 years. Likely 100 oil.changrs. i never heard of "wire filter". WHY are u comparing to a filter that is hardly used. Not all paper filters are the same quality. Why didn’t u compare like WIX to Fram.Two very common paper filters with 2 different abilities to filter, according to few tests on internet.
We used the screen filters back in the day on drag engines, where the oil was not in the engine very long. It was simply there to prevent chunks of bearing, rings etc. from being dragged through the engine, not really a filter.
I have a 2003 Dixie Chopper 60" mower, with a Kohler CV745 fuel injected engine. The engine has 2610 hours on it. It is the equivalent of 156,600 miles on a car engine. In the late '90s and early '00s, Dixie Chopper installed Amsoil 1 micron bypass filters on most of their mowers. My mower still has great compression and doesn't burn any oil. I attribute this wholely to the Amsoil bypass filter. Can you guys run your same tests, but with a Amsoil bypass filter installed too?
In my recent engine replacement, I seriously considered a centrifuge like some truck/prime movers/mining engine put decided against it as it also is a moving part (which wears and eventually needs replacement), instead I change oil, first with a flush, then every 5000 klms use an antiwear additive with quality oil filter. As well I will only use quality fully synthetic oil. Then, every 50,000 klms I do a second flush with flushing agent (no antiwear added) and drive it 20 minutes at 100 klm/hr, then change it for the oil and antiwear additive for the next 5000 klms. The reason why I am so pedantic about this as I had a cracked piston on a 2007 Toyota LC Prado diesel 3.0 Turbo and Intercooled and want to do everything possible to avoid another failure. It shouldn’t happen as the pistons are not factory which have been the problem. I would have liked to use the total seal piston rings, but I didn’t know about them at that stage. Next time definitely. I might specify Mahle Motorsport pistons as well. Oh, I will no longer tow anything greater than a 700 kg box trailer. I believe towing the 2.4 ton full sized van contributed to the failure, however I was the second owner and I have no idea what they towed. The engine code is 1kD-FTV and it’s common for these around the world to crack pistons. It’s the pistons Toyota use that are the problem-they just can’t take the heat. I change my injectors every 150,000 klms, so that will not be the cause. I also use a fuel lubricity additive as well as a decarboniser in every tank. I have several digital gauges one is an EGT. I also have installed an Engine Guard which shows me the head temperature (thermocouple sensor) as well I have set the alarm at 90 degrees as an early warning. This model Engine Guard monitors the oil pressure with an alarm set as well. I don’t have an oil temperature gauge, which is my next project.
I just saw another test where the Amsoil screen backed, filtered best between 22 and 30 microns, but was slightly restrictive compared to the Purolator Boss screen backed. Which company makes the filter is another factor. Napa filters were all made by Wix at one time. But not any more. The Napa screen backed filtered tighter than the Wix XP in a recent test by Brand Ranks. Based on your test and what I have seen, I would use the paper/synthetic fiber filter and not go more than 4 to 5K miles on an oil change. Preferably with a bypass filter installed in addition to the factory filter.
Thank you for all the great videos im suprised at some of the results amazing information. I have a question about oil i hope im in the right place? 😊 I have a 69 Ford 390 truck engine it has 8,000 miles on rebuilt i use Royal Purple HPS 10W30 my oil pressure is around 15 at idle 650RPM and fwy speeds 50psi. The place I buy my oil was out of Royal Purple but they had Z Rod Amsoil so i tried it my oil pressure went way up it was in the 30/40 at a idle and 55/60 fwy speeds it seemed to go down after the engine was full temp 180/190 although i noticed leaky gaskets as well . I only drove it a few times i use Wix XP oil filter im thinking of draining it and going back to RP HPS is it the oil that makes that big of a change ? I took pride that my 390 didnt leak oil since there known to be leakers not happy with the results from ZRod .
Would have really liked to actually see the bearings, cam, pistons, rings, and cylinder walls. It lost power, so there has to be wear/damage somewhere that’s likely visible or measurable.
@@TotalSealgood stuff. So more surface are in contact with the bore cuz the 2nd ring was worn? I've gotta 383 I built 16yrs ago, gotta tear it down cuz last person opened it up and didn't seal it properly (oil leak). I might just chuck that 2nd ring and just use a gapless top with no second. Mile wide 5/64 setup. Lots of cycles on the thing so may decide to rebuild and go 1mm or sub package which is what I should do. Probably do the former first just for fun 😅 (mine, not built for someone else).
tottaly awesome. I tryed some of the A! ss filters back in the 90's on a tripple engine performance boat that got a lot of oil changes.I didnt like the look of the oil when changing it after using the filters for about a month & a half (about 3 oil changes) so i went back to the good ole paper filter.'s. about 800 hp perengine, normally aspirated) so yes your testing confirms what I knew was happening.. but that 10 hp loss you showed...wow!! thats a lot. I wish I were there for the teardown&inspection!! I was a performest machinest&builder,racer, dang I miss all that.
In South Africa there is a filter brand, GUD. Been using them for years. Never a problem. Actually cut some of them open and compared to the equivalent Hyundai and Toyota filters. They were superior in every respect. And had alot more filter media in them too
Those steel filters advertised as oil filters are absolute junk for filtering oil, but they are amazing at filtering coolant! One of those, plus a "remote oil filter relocation" kit (you only use half of it) make a very inexpensive yet extremely effective full-flow washable coolant filtration setup.
We flushed the engine with clean oil after the first test to remove as much residual as possible. The particle count after the first test showed that the vast majority of the iron was removed by the filter.
As a former diesel mechanic and now a farmer with my own equipment. Oil and filters I will NOT get cheap on. Clean good oil is key to longevity of most anything. It is almost never additives that prolong life.
I mean this with the utmost respect. I love you, nerds. I am a nerd some days and a hard charger other days. But I love watching you guys geek out, and I love to geek out with you. Thanks for explaining things and exercising my brain.
Would have been interesting to record the pressure delta across the filter. Was the bypass disabled / eliminated? Back in the day, -70’s, with Chevy V-8’s, I’d generally disable / plug the filter pad bypass valve, and run the 2 quart truck filters, for the additional flow volume capacity. Sorry as I don’t recall the filter P/N, off the top of my head
The bypass was not disabled. When we cut the paper filter open, the pleats were not clogged. The 5 grams of powder was not enough to clog the filter media.
On your test rig, I’d like to see a sensor mounted on the bypass valve to measure when and for how long that valve is open, and a graph showing how much of the oil is not being filtered during normal operation. I know it’s open a lot, but I’d like to see you tell us how much.
This looked interesting but I got bored in the middle however in the end my eyes were wide open and I was astonished. Absolutely wonderful video Thanks
My dad bought a 327 Chevy engine from a fleet mechanic. He rebuilt it, and for the initial start dribbled a handful of Comet cleanser down the carburetor. Freaked me out to hear that! His philosophy was that the driver was not going to adhere to break in instructions, so a bit of real fine abrasive would seat the rings. He had an excellent test bed of about a hundred trucks being driven by “don’t care how long it lasts “ operators and no negative consequences. Go figure 😂
Pretty stupid !! If the mechanic honed the cylinders properly for the rings used in the rebuild there shouldn't be any problem with the rings seating.. It's amazing how millions of new cars with new engines leave automotive plants every year and make it fine and working properly by just starting them and delivering them to the dealers without a hitch but mechanics come up with all kind of crazy scenarios and theories about what isn't going to happen properly and insist on finding solutions to imaginary problems and sabotage their own work and customer vehicles.
@@kevindoherty2716 its not always the person working on the car. you have very poor workmanship performed at some machine shops that cut corners to make more money. ive had subpar machining work done at two different shops. there is no way to prove they did wrong unless you tear apart the motor and get in their face and even then no guarantee youll get satisfaction
Love you guys and the knowledge you pass on thx. My question is 2016 ram 6.7 cummins 4th gen 1st owner did factory maintenance at dealer til 60k so 15k intervals. Then i bought it 63k miles start with mopar filters oil Rotella synthetic changes at 10k intervals. Have 98k on it now. Should i do a Valvoline Premium Blue or Valvoline restore to clean motor. I started changing oil filter changes at 90k miles every 5k miles now since I watched your content. Since cummins test their engines with Valvoline, should i stop with Rotella synthetic and which oil filter would you guys recommend. Thank you for any help with fuel additives, too. Driiving 50 50 highway/city 5th wheel 16k lbs and flat bed 4k lbs city in SC.
For a long time I have changed my oil filter again at about 800 miles after I change the oil with a new filter and I never let the car oil go past 1,500 miles.
Good test for those that don't know. 40 + years ago my older brother was all about the Oburg type oil filters. They did look cool. On the other hand, my gut feeling was they were more hype than they deserved. I have ALWAYS used a top of the line paper type oil filter for my street/strip cars and have had great success. Looking forward the the teardown.
About 40 years ago I put an Oberg remote filter [with warning light] on my small block healthy built Ford. With 3 [three] micron screen. Approximately 45k miles since installation. Above 2k rpm 70 psi oil pressure before and now. Checked it after a few years when I discovered a bad set of roller rockers [design error] and valve springs shaving the aluminum retainers. Yes it was all in the filter; looked like aluminum paint. I don't know if 3 micron screens are available in any filters, smallest I've seen is 10. You can get the screen [industrial supply] if you want to make your own filters.
...Those naughty Microns.....My last employment I was the Maintenance Manager...lots of hydraulic stuff...when I bought new oil filters (look and often fit exactly like automotive filters), the choices I usually had were...3, 5 or 10 microns.... Of course they are very expensive...about $$10X the price of a good auto filter....the previous guy had used a big 'engine' oil filter to try saving money...they'd crack/split and lose a lot of oil...quite a mess...the Cost of the correct filter...about $100....cleaning up oil and refilling the hydraulic tank? Certainly more than that..and....I often replaced the cylinder piston seals and moving pressure/seal parts that were exposed ... I think the 'auto' type filters the guy had been getting were something like 40-50 Microns... This was 12-13 years ago....prices have probably gone up...
That 427 FE sounds as good as any engine I've ever heard run on a dyno! Does it use a lightweight rotating assembly and high compression pistons? I mean that engine gets from one end of the rpm range to the other as quick as any other engine I've come across.
Great video, in my family we our on our 16 th 300,000 mile GM.. the current vehicle has 338,000 miles on it right now. Every engine has had the cheapest oil filter OR an AC Delco.. nothing else and we have never had an internal engine problem.. not one...
I think the altimeter was used to measure the pressure altitude at the time of the test. Air density changes will effect how a motor performs and corrections are made to the reported output to standardize it.
I was pretty sure the wire filter would do very poorly in this test, as it would in a normal real world driving environment. Very few manufacturers use them, that alone is a bit of evidence to avoid them. For a wire filter to filter down to 4 microns it would have to be huge to not become a flow restriction, it would also require precise manufacturing so it would be very expensive. Many people don't understand that the micron rating on most filters is a "nominal rating"; meaning that it will let some larger particles through, but will also catch a lot of particles much smaller than the rating. A wire filter is going to catch very few particles below its rating, and most likely pass some that are larger than the rating.
Ive never heard of a screen filter, im a bit concerned that its the same as a synthetic media filter... Can you give some more specific info on the filters you used?
Great video!! Thanks for posting! I've been using Amsoil oil filters over 30+ years. FYI: "AMSOIL Oil Filters provide a filtering efficiency in accordance with industry standard ISO 4548-12 of 99 percent at 20 microns - one of the best ratings on the market. Some competitors also claim 99 percent efficiency, but at larger particle sizes of 30 to 40 microns."
Not sure why bypass filters (like AMSOIL makes or other manufacturers make for diesel applications) isn't more common - paired with a Wix racing or Wix XP depending on application.
Great video. I was thinking of getting a reusable metal screen filter for my harley instead of the paper filters. After watching this video Im sticking with the disposable paper can filters.
Here is food for thought. If your oil filter bypass valve opens at say 16psi and you drive the car normally. The oil presssure remains below the bypass valve opening. If you drive a tad harder, now the filter is in bypass more than filter mode. So my question is this, how effective is your oil filter really?
There is pressure on both sides of the relief so it's actually a 16 PSI differential valve. As long as you are flowing well enough to not have 16 PSI difference across the media it won't bypass.
The filter bypass for a small block Chevy is typically located in the filter housing, thus no need for an internal filter bypass in that case. Nice because you have the option of blocking it to force all the oil through the filter. Filter bypass valves help prevent filter damage in the case of high pressure delta such as cold starts.
Good video gentlemen! Another variable, direct injection, I've read and been told by a lubrication engineer , direct injection creates some soot, and requires, more frequent oil changes. I have noticed that the oil in direct injection engines, does seem, to get darker, in fewer miles.
The factory manual for my GDI turbo specifies an OCI of 3k miles. When you look at the oil it needs to be changed by then. I monitor the oil in all of our GDI engines and I do keep the change interval shorter.
hi. I got an oil filter cartridge for a 2007 huynda santa fe. I noticed 3 of the pleats on the filter look like they were knicked by something about 1mm wide so that there's possibly 3 holes, each 1mm in diameter on the affected area. I cant really see with the slight fuzz on the filter media if there are indeed holes but assuming there are, would they likely significantly affect the filtering effectivness til the next oil change?
Had a 1970 VW. the engine didn’t even have an oil filter. I think the oil change interval was 3,000 miles. The first rebuild occured at 133k and the second was at 240k. The crank and bearings were in good shape exhaust valves wore out, and that is why the rebuilds. Oil was straight 30 weight , usually Quaker State. I don’t think this was unusual for those engines.
Tolerances for those engines were much, much looser than modern engines. A lot more garbage could flow through and with the sloppiness of those clearances it would never notice.
My uncle back in the day, loved vws, sometime around the mid late 70s his wife bought a new one, red, convertible. He kept the oil changed but I remember him having the valves replaced.
I feel a paper would be the way to go on a new engine for some time but after miles of break in thers minimal pieces thats where i use a system one wire type and my oil pressure goes way up which says some things about the filter and the bypass both
Did NDT or NDI in the Air Force for 33+ years. Love the good old Magnaflux testing. True test would have been with spectropetric oil analysis, like they use on jet engines.
Clearly above the absolute value of the screen. Also note they didn't come up with some form of flush for the test. The screen went second. Run a third test with a paper filter. Cumulative particulate... sizes... lots left out of this test.
I've been using Canton Mecca filters for decades....spin on in my truck and remote housing on my fun car. Both filters are 8 micron and do not go into bypass. Well worth the investment!
Reminds me of a 5.3 i put in a pickup a few years ago. I scraped all the rust out of the block and off the crank as I could. This was a "good" engine i bought off FB marketplace. I had to change the oil filter 3 times in the first 200 miles, first change was 7 miles in.
This was awesome! So the paper filter caught all that Iron and the oil pressure was still OK? I would love to see this test with a synthetic media filter and cellulose? if that's any different than paper. Thanks for sharing!
I agree - even doing the semi-controversial filter pre-fill, the new synthetic media flows much much better than cellulose at similar micron ratings. That makes me question: Are the micron ratings accurate? Do the synthetic filter hold less dirt before becoming clogged? Or are they truly a step above?
I use Magnaflux Magnaglow 14a powder where i work. It's particles are about 6 microns. In theory, a 30 micron filter isn't going to catch many of them. Unless its a paper media (or some composite thereof). Nice test.
First Happy late birthday Lake, I just saw this video today, also this was an interesting test to see how good the oil filter is. I have always wondered how good a filter does its job. I have also wondered what would happen if you left that filter installed and drained the oil and put a fresh batch of contaminated oil in, is there any filtering ability left in the filter to clean the new oil down to a better condition. I have heard of guys changing filters at half oil change and leave the oil in the engine as supposedly the new filter will clean out the stuff the old filter couldn't catch anymore. I have loved watching these videos, I am a technology nerd, so love to learn stuff, keep up the good work
Thanks for watching. Filters are always filtering some amount of particles. We think it is best to replace the filter when you replace the oil in order to remove those particles from the system completely.
One thing that was missing for me was how to identify which type of filter you are buying, especially in relation to brand. I would love to see a filter teardown so we can see what's good what isn't. (Eg: fram vs Mobil 1 vs Mann)
One thing they taught us in tech school that it took me a bit to wrap my head around. I slightly dirty filter does a better job of filtering out smaller particles than a brand new clean one. What happens is the larger particles get trapped in the larger holes in the filter media. So where a brand new one might have 20 micron holes, once those catch debris larger than 20 micron in them they will start catching particles smaller than its rating at the costof potential oil flow through the media. It will eventually get so good at filtering it wont even allow the oil to go through essentially.
Caterpillar has or had a magnetic filter with a brass strainer in their hydraulic system. When you pulled it out there was always fine particles on it from wear. Like dust. What you looked for was slivers or bits that were larger indicating a larger problem.
@@TotalSealThe magnets do help to remove ferrous metal from the oil. The fine particles with oil in the magnetic field gets almost like grease. The prìncipal for the magnahelic shocks.
I'm still running a 5hp Briggs & Stratton engine on a Montgomery Ward front tiller that I bought in 1983. That thing has been through 41 oil changes and still runs, no oil filter!
Filter media life. I worked for BMW while they transitioned from 3-5,000 mile Conventional oil chg. intervals to Synthetic oil and 15,000/ oil condition service indicator light intervals. The plain BMW cellulose-based oil filters quickly hardened, collapsed, cracked and broke up . Then quickly BMW (Mann) filters contained a Synthetic media to last the ridiculous BMW Free Maintenance intervals. Its amazing how many leasing customers refused to bring cars in even once a year for free oil changes. The engines were sludge boxes after 30k to 45k miles. Warranty canceled, all claims denied. Customers pays for stupidity and engine overhaul. Pkease conduct an oil filter comparison. Its ss important ss the oil it self . Congratulations on this great channel. A lubricants gold standard. 🛢️💦👍👍👍👍👍🏆
Is the methanol sparying on the temp sensor and could this also be affecting the reported temp? Fantastic video though, would love to see more of you working on this system and the van
So now a future video I could see in the works.... Which brand oil filters "scientifically" walk the walk and filter the best and which ones are marketing hype? 😁
People that use wire mesh oil filters probably use the same oily/cotton air filters too. I bet they also think they filter better than paper, they might flow more air but they aren't catching what paper does.
I've watched about Additives, Zinc and Filter Types... What Brand of Screen Mesh Filter were you Testing? Filter Types stood out the most to me 🥺 I'm currently running K&P Screen Filters in two of four Vehicles (I would have Screen Filters in three of four of K&P offered a Screen Filter for my 2007 Audi A6 Avant 3.2L). I've been running a K&P Screen Filter in my 1983 Suzuki GS1100ES since around 2007? It currently has around 8,500 Miles (purchased new in April of 1983) I've been running a K&P Screen Filter in my 2015 Sea Doo GTX iS 260 Limited PWC since soon after I purchased used with 54 Hours in April of 2020. It now has about 230 Hours and I've discovered that it must be down on HP? I haven't completed my process of elimination yet (I've tinkered and changed many things along the way), it's very possible that it's down on HP due to the "Ribbon Delete" that I performed well over a year ago? I've ordered a almost new Intake Manifold with Injectors from a Powersports Parts Recycler (pulled from a 2016 RXT 260 with only 33 Hours) which won't arrive until late in the day Monday (FedEx). It never dawned on me that the Screen Oil Filter I've been using could be killing HP? FYI: I know that it's down on HP due to Max RPM nor Max Speed is no longer being achieved. First thought it was the Aftermarket Impeller (Solas SRZ-CD-15). I purchased a Used slightly damaged OEM Impeller and just by chance I was invited to a friend's Fishing Camp on Dickinson Bayou Texas which is Brackish Water as opposed to the Salt Water I predominantly ride in on Galveston Bay and the Gulf of Mexico (I live on the West End of Galveston Island in Texas). On Dickinson Bayou with the OEM Impeller I was easily hitting the Max RPM Limit of the ECM of 8,000 RPM but only seeing 65 MPH (should be at least 67 MPH). Following week I dropped it in Galveston Bay... Now only achieving 64 MPH @ 7,800 RPM. Only change was the salinity of the Water. Next change will be the Set of Fuel Injectors. Then back to the Solas Impeller... I had been achieving 65 MPH @ 7,600 RPM on Galveston Bay. Lastly I will swap out the Intake Manifold with the Bone Stock Unit and Test again. If it's still not Performing as it should (7,900-8,000 RPM at 67 MPH or higher? / I currently am running a fairly New Stock International Version ECM with a GPS Speed Limit of 72 MPH), then the problem could be excessive Engine Wear due to the use of the K&P Screen Oil Filter? BTW: I've been running nothing but Shell Rotella T-4 15W-40 I will keep you updated. Hopefully you have found this story interesting? 😜 I'm a retired Professional Wrench (Audi's are my Specialty, retired since June of 2018, I'm 68 currently)
So how the hell does this help the average car owner looking for a quality Brand name oil filter? At one time there were guys on here saying FRAM was totally crap. You guys seemed to show a Wix one here, which i started using (Wix Gold) because Channels on here recommended it. Now i just watched another guy proclaiming FRAM TITANIUM was the best and he wouldn't even consider using Wix. All most car owners want to know is Brand and cost. For me, i don't really care about cost, as long as i am getting a top-quality filter that is doing its job. I had a 1991 VW TD that had 698,714KM on it that got totaled by an asshole running a red light. I had used Bosch filters (conventional oil) in it until i could not get locally so switched to Wix Gold. The engine was still running great and i had stuck to VW recommended oil change intervals 8000KM. It would be barely off the full mark by that time---maybe 1/2 liter down at the most. Drove 220-230KM per day Mon.-Fri. with Winter Temp. down to MINUS 30F and lower.
@@TotalSeal thanks were the magnets loaded What would best rings to replace Sealed powerfile fit ductile moly 1/16 top on mopar 6 pack piston I have access to my old CK 10 build is 40 years old my motorhome D dish 9:1 .030 quench JONES cam
If you are using the old pistons, contact our tech support team with the ring groove dimensions. They can recommend the appropriate ring set. 623-587-7400
#1 cause of engine failure as I recall being a mechanic for some years - was nearly always coolant related. If a problem with cooling system didnt take out its engine - then it at least spelled out the the beginning of the end. Pay attention to cooling system!
Great point
I look at my temp gauge religiously.
Actually, funny story - in my manual Civic, the speedometer doesn’t work. I was explaining to a coworker that I didn’t need the speedo to work, I didn’t need the gas gauge to work, I didn’t even need the tach to drive (you could feel out the shifts), but the one thing I absolutely needed to drive was the temp gauge. You have to know the second you start to overheat
Oof I might need to flush my coolant then.
@@Lukebarcaif you don't like every 40k and you drive hard or in hot areas you will blow your head gasket and that can be worse than destroying your transmission.
@LOVEisACTIONABLE I got it done a few days after I saw this. It was dirty, and I just replaced the pump. I think coolant is overlooked by a lot of people.
The Standard "Dust" they refer to is actually "Arizona Road Dust". We worked for Pratt & Whitney making engines and fuel systems. Filter testing was always a part of each Engine qualification. In our case, we would mix up POUNDS of dust and kept it agitated in a drum to be pumped to the engine test cell. Pall Corporation is the leading manufacturer of fuel and oil filters for commercial aircraft engines.
Thanks for sharing!
The ASTM / SAE / OSU (Oklahoma State Univ.) - F1 particle test stand - specification for IC engines for many years 'was' 20 micrometers (µM) as the **most damaging particle**, now being upgraded to much lower µM by the more 'sophisitcated' engine manufacturers. Recirculating oil filters do not filter to 100% removal; but, are 'statistical reduction devices' ..... depending on how quickly these particles 'eventually' are retained. However most of these particals in nature have an electronic surface charge, and the filter media (resinated paper) are designed/selected to have the opposite electronic surface charge - electronic attraction. The faster (and more volume of oil) the contaminated recirculating oil flows 'through' a filter - so, the more efficient filter will have the larger amount of filter paper surface area for less pressure drop and more rapid 'turnover' of the oil in the sump. However due the surface charge effect of particles and filter media once thoroughly contaminated, the particles will tend to 'agglomerate' (stick/'clump') together into larger and larger and large particles - that is why one changes both the oil AND the filter AT or before the OEM recommended changeout interval ..... remembering that the OEM changeout interval was based on highway speed /steady state (cruise contol ON) driving. For non-steady state, stop and go city driving - change the oil at HALF the recommended interval (..... especially on IC engines that have 'loose tension' piston rings - virtually all IC engines since about 2010-12 due to their propensity to build up (from blow-by) carbon deposits 'behind' the piston rings and with tendancy for the now 'stuck' rings from moving; hence **stuck** engine piston rings and the higher probability of catastrophic cylinder wall wear !!!!).
Rx: If predominantly (90%) driving 'highway speeds' follow the OEM changeout specification. For 'city driving' which involves a LOT accelerating and decelerating and idling ... change the oil an d filter at HALF the OEM changeout recommendation.
Rx: Always choose the filter with the largest 'surface area' (number of pleates). USA, EU and Japanese filters are the choice .... and are typically supplied with a resinated filter paper from a single world supplier - Ahlstrom of Finland, or equivalent etc. .... stay away from Chinese, etc. made oil filters which are 'variable' and inconsistant in filter retention. However, NEVER choose an oil filter with a 'smaller/finer' µM retention specification ... as all you will do is SLOW DOWN the particle removal from the oil .... with MUCH LESS oil 'turnover' through the filter,
Lastly, Changing the oil at or BEFORE the recommended changeout interval is one hell of a lot CHEAPER than changing prematurely to a NEW vehicle or replacement engine. I usually get ~200-300k+ miles from my IC engines (I rarely 'beat' my engines). Was a filtration engineer (Pall Corp, etc.) for ~30 years).
Thanks… for sharing.. I am an old Car nut, DIYOURSELFER.
GM used to sell that dust in a large poly bottle with an AC Delco part number (maybe they still do?). We used it for a lot of different development tests.
@@richh1576re your ...."witha smaller/finer (size symbol) retention specification": i ask, than what? Most if not all filters available for sale here in the U.S of mainstream brands range tween 20 and 30 microns.
STOP the Music when they are talking.
You were about 9 months late to stop anything lol
@@Onewheelordeal ,lol
Engine porn music
During the dyno pulls, too.
Stop whining. I can’t hear the music.
I showed this video to my 30 year old push mower and it laughed.
LOL
...but his one year old car engine died.
You win....
I showed this video to my Honda trike and it laughed
While burning your oil.
Good grief. This is the type of content that provides an actual test to the theory and empirical results. Excellent video!
Thanks!
@@TotalSeal THIS IS AWESOME...THANKS SOOOO MUCH guys!!!!
@@TotalSeal The BEST engine oil filter on the planet...in every aspect...is WIX-XP. Believe me, I've done extensive tests on every brand available to
the average consumer. WIX-XP beats them all on every level.
Best regards,
Ben
@@duygukayhanisaskank4915 what extensive tests? got a link to your video? research? white paper?
The WIX XP isn't as efficient as many others on the market, and those other filters that are much more efficient also flow just as good as the WIX XP. Independent lab ISO 4548-12 testing proves that. It would have been nice to see that same particle count test done after running a filter that's rated at 99% efficient @ 20 microns and greater. The WIX XP is only around 62% efficient @ 20 microns and greater.
HBD Lake, i admire your enthusiasm guys
Would like to see filter brands performance comparison from regular duty filter to full blown race filter
I would LOVE to see the engine damage caused by this test!!!
We will show that in a future video!
I'm gonna be on the lookout for that video!
I've told you a million times not to exaggerate!!
Guarantee you any damage will only be "observable" under a microscope and will require Lake's "expert" commentary to see.
Filtration is tough. I ran a satellite diesel shop for a major trucking company and they decided to save money on oil by staying with conventional oils and regular oil changes. The reason is that even though the synthetic oils are up to the task of longer oil change intervals, filtration is not! The oil would still get too much contamination and require regular changes. I still service my cars by this same principle 20 years later.
Probably smart… I had a 1981 Benz 240D for 26 years put 226,000 miles on it used original filters and change oil every 1500 miles Chevron 400 plus 15w-40, my mother still has her 1985 Benz 300CD with 108,000 miles… like new. Changed oil same oil as above every 1000 miles. Got to remember lots of stop and go in LA. Why use that heavy duty truck petroleum oil… well Chevron made everything in the bucket… buy the 5 gal. Buckets from the local Chevron distributor in Santa Ana. They would fill the buckets from a huge 5000 gallon tank. About $40 a bucket then.
As a mechanical engineer I thought this test was great and quite educational to me. Thank you, good job, and please keep these coming. Besides the info, your presentations kept me interested.
Thank you!
As a human being, I also found this very educational! 👍🏾
Thanks
Very informative. I went out to the shop and pulled off my steel mesh 45-micron filter and installed a WIX #57099 oil filter. This is on a .030" over bored 454 moderate street build. Five hundred and ten (510) horsepower on the dyno. Thanks, gentlemen and Cheers!
We are glad it helped!
Was it a WIx filter? He had a Napa Gold in his hand when they started. I didn't hear them say the brands tested? The Gold is 23 microns and enhanced cellulose.
@@L46C3 Howdy, read my original post, the Wix number is there. If it helps the filter is the black one, Cheers!
The Wix 57099 is so short. You must have space limitations.
@@L46C3 Napa Gold is just a relabeled Wix.
The synthetic media filters are even better not only with particulate matter but flow also. In my testing the Purolator Boss filter is a great filter
Thanks for sharing!
Agreed. I like the BOSS or the Wix XP (also Napa platinum) for great flow, build quality, and filter material with robust backing
@@HMuny55wix makes Napa filters
Purolator Boss is the best filter made in my opinion.
For filtration level, filtration capacity, pressure drop and percent bypass it is hard to beat Mobile one filters. Some people switch over to them on hydraulic oil systems where they outperform expensive micron rated filters.
For consistency’s sake, it might be better to mix up a double batch of oil at the start instead of 2 separate batches to ensure both test will have the same particle level in the oil.
If that is a flat tappet cam I bet the cam got hit hard. Paper filters are hard to beat for function. I see the same with air filters s good paper keeps things clean but takes a lot of surface area to not be restrictive. K&n style filters flow like crazy but let a lot of dirt go by
Absolutely!
I've used K&N air filters for many years in my CR-V for more than 10 years without a problem.
@@mnrodriguez Same here, but I clean them annually and re-oil them as the oil is part of the particle capture. I follow the instructions and don't over oil them ever. Never had an issue with a sensor (MAF) and I tend to keep my cars between 100k miles and 200k miles without any noticeable wear (oil usage).
@@mikw1809 I used catch cans in all my cars so there is a little reduction.
yep, hard pass on K&N air filters
Would be nice to see a FilterMag incorporated into one of the test. Have been using them for decades. I use a cutting tool made by FilterMag to cut open my used filters. You would be amazed at the amount of metallic sludge that is held to the sidewall of the filter can. Great content guys 👍🇺🇲👊
The FilterMag product works well. Both of these filters actually contained magnets, so there was some magnetic filtration occurring.
In diesels the primary enemy is soot/ash in the 2-25 micron range which need a bypass filtration system to catch i.e. Amsoil EABP
I like that the magnet stays on the side instead of the end to keep anti drain back seal clear. This will reduce the clogging up of metal only near the magnet thus cutting off flow messing up the anti drain back valve
Have a magnetic drain plug on my 77 vette and it works . It is one item I can not find for my new hybrid .America Ford .Who cells magnetic drain plugs?
It would be great if he rated the top 5 oil filters in 10 minutes ,Versus a 25 minute sermon.
AMEN
Scroll on by, just scroll on by
It took them a week to do this testing, but you want it in 10 minutes?
@@DENicholsAutoBravadoThe old story about the old mechanic revising his bill to show: Time tapping machine with hammer $1, Knowing where to tap $999 reinforces the fact that time isn’t the measure of value. Some people can talk forever and not say anything. TikTok is living proof views and influence (and therefore ad $) has zero to do with length of content.
@@mechwatchdogyes, and some users wanted to watch how the engine performed with all that metal. Some may even go back to each test and snap picks of the graph and see if they could see a statistical change.
Could it have been made more entertaining by being shorter? Maybe, but people wanting to learn to the maximum would be disappointed.
Did I see you fill the filter after you mixed in the ferrous powder ?? that kind of defeats having the filter, does it not ??? thought the tests would show how much the filter trapped??
I knew it! The disturbed filter companies came for you. I noticed the mark on your neck made by their attacks. Glad that you are still alive to provide such a good content to make our cars live longer. Long live!
LOL
I love how much fun you have with all the ooil and ooil applications
Absolutely!
I saw no mention of the bypass valve that is used to make sure that is oil flow if filter gets clogged. this was famous in chevy vega when oil was too thick and cold , fitter would blow out the seal and leak all over ground. Also the chrysler slant six where the oil pressure was so low oil light would flash at idle. I remember being told at a Fram covention that oil filters only work up to 25-30 psi then bypass valve would allow unfiltered oil to continue through motor .
Most modern filters bypass in the 10lbs - 20lbs range. But that differential pressure, not engine oil pressure
Fresh Oil ISO 16
27 Micron Paper Filter ISO 19 (17,000 particles removed, No Power Loss)
35 Micron Wire Mesh Screen Filter ISO 22 (4,000 particles removed, Lost 10HP in an Hour)
Great work! Love the videos, keep'em coming!
Thank you!
These results were amazing, great job!
Before you wrap up, give the old-school 'toilet paper roll' oil filter a test. You do recall the Franz filter don't you?
Thank you!
Yup, they used to advertise "Never change your oil again".
Lake Jr thank you for sharing all these awesome videos with great tests and information. My 2002 Suburban 5.3l with 163,000 miles has always had its oil changed at 5000 miles with full synthetic by Driven HR oil. Suburban runs super strong with awesome torque just like it was new and its stock as can be. Can’t even hear the thing idling when you stand 10 ft away from it. Can’t even feel it when it’s idling when I’m at a traffic light idling. a must keep that filter and oil clean. 😊
Right on!
car did 166000 miles before rust took it from me. Filter and oil changed every 2 years. 9-12k, save yourself some money
Years ago on air cooled roller crank bikes they used screen filters along with centrifugal filters and a magnetic drain plug to capture particles in oil . The temperatures in those air cooled motors could reach 300 degrees . The engines carried only 2 quarts and this was conventional oil . Along with that the engine was sharing the oil with the transmission !
I never put more than 500 miles on the oil and cleaned the screen filter and magnets every time .
Friends always wondered what I had done to make my bike run better than theirs ! lol
It was my secret ! 😅
Years ago, we would add the bypass Franz type filter to the regular full flow filter system. We would check and change the filter in the Franz every thousand miles. On top of the filter element we could see what might be changing in the motor as far as wear. A couple of times we saw something that caused us to go in the motor and see what was going on. Is was a good thing we did. This helped prevent more damage to the motor, as the filter showed bearing material on one occasion. On all motors we built over the years, we would block the bypass in the housing where the filter would go on. You did not rev the motor when the oil was cold when you did this. This stopped all metal from doing any bearing damage from a camshaft losing a lobe, or other problem that could contaminate the oil.
Thanks for sharing!
I am a fsirly good DYI mechanic, and i have been changing oil for overv 40 years. Likely 100 oil.changrs. i never heard of "wire filter". WHY are u comparing to a filter that is hardly used. Not all paper filters are the same quality. Why didn’t u compare like WIX to Fram.Two very common paper filters with 2 different abilities to filter, according to few tests on internet.
Tks so much, i liked the interation both of you had in the video....
Glad you enjoyed it!
Invaluable information, I subscribed after watching the first video. Look forward to seeing much more.
Awesome, thank you!
I love engines so much that it's hard for me to even WATCH an engine pushed to destruction.
We understand!
Good stuff Guys!! Appreciate your work!
Our pleasure!
We used the screen filters back in the day on drag engines, where the oil was not in the engine very long. It was simply there to prevent chunks of bearing, rings etc. from being dragged through the engine, not really a filter.
Good point
It would be a good “screen” in other words? Not a filter- just a screen.
Totally different purpose. You have a screen door. It ain’t a filter!
Great video! Nice to see a bit calmer Lake Speed here. Happy Birthday!
Thank you very much!
I have a 2003 Dixie Chopper 60" mower, with a Kohler CV745 fuel injected engine. The engine has 2610 hours on it. It is the equivalent of 156,600 miles on a car engine. In the late '90s and early '00s, Dixie Chopper installed Amsoil 1 micron bypass filters on most of their mowers. My mower still has great compression and doesn't burn any oil. I attribute this wholely to the Amsoil bypass filter. Can you guys run your same tests, but with a Amsoil bypass filter installed too?
Bypass filters absolutely make a huge difference!
In my recent engine replacement, I seriously considered a centrifuge like some truck/prime movers/mining engine put decided against it as it also is a moving part (which wears and eventually needs replacement), instead I change oil, first with a flush, then every 5000 klms use an antiwear additive with quality oil filter.
As well I will only use quality fully synthetic oil.
Then, every 50,000 klms I do a second flush with flushing agent (no antiwear added) and drive it 20 minutes at 100 klm/hr, then change it for the oil and antiwear additive for the next 5000 klms.
The reason why I am so pedantic about this as I had a cracked piston on a 2007 Toyota LC Prado diesel 3.0 Turbo and Intercooled and want to do everything possible to avoid another failure.
It shouldn’t happen as the pistons are not factory which have been the problem.
I would have liked to use the total seal piston rings, but I didn’t know about them at that stage. Next time definitely.
I might specify Mahle Motorsport pistons as well.
Oh, I will no longer tow anything greater than a 700 kg box trailer.
I believe towing the 2.4 ton full sized van contributed to the failure, however I was the second owner and I have no idea what they towed.
The engine code is 1kD-FTV and it’s common for these around the world to crack pistons.
It’s the pistons Toyota use that are the problem-they just can’t take the heat.
I change my injectors every 150,000 klms, so that will not be the cause.
I also use a fuel lubricity additive as well as a decarboniser in every tank.
I have several digital gauges one is an EGT.
I also have installed an Engine Guard which shows me the head temperature (thermocouple sensor) as well I have set the alarm at 90 degrees as an early warning.
This model Engine Guard monitors the oil pressure with an alarm set as well.
I don’t have an oil temperature gauge, which is my next project.
Oh, I have a Provent catch can installed, so this helps to keep the engine cleaner.
I just saw another test where the Amsoil screen backed, filtered best between 22 and 30 microns, but was slightly restrictive compared to the Purolator Boss screen backed. Which company makes the filter is another factor. Napa filters were all made by Wix at one time. But not any more. The Napa screen backed filtered tighter than the Wix XP in a recent test by Brand Ranks.
Based on your test and what I have seen, I would use the paper/synthetic fiber filter and not go more than 4 to 5K miles on an oil change. Preferably with a bypass filter installed in addition to the factory filter.
So what brand of filter was the wire mesh filter? And how about paper vs the synthetic filter medias most companies are using these days.
Thank you for all the great videos im suprised at some of the results amazing information. I have a question about oil i hope im in the right place? 😊 I have a 69 Ford 390 truck engine it has 8,000 miles on rebuilt i use Royal Purple HPS 10W30 my oil pressure is around 15 at idle 650RPM and fwy speeds 50psi.
The place I buy my oil was out of Royal Purple but they had Z Rod Amsoil so i tried it my oil pressure went way up it was in the 30/40 at a idle and 55/60 fwy speeds it seemed to go down after the engine was full temp 180/190 although i noticed leaky gaskets as well .
I only drove it a few times i use Wix XP oil filter im thinking of draining it and going back to RP HPS is it the oil that makes that big of a change ? I took pride that my 390 didnt leak oil since there known to be leakers not happy with the results from ZRod .
Would have really liked to actually see the bearings, cam, pistons, rings, and cylinder walls.
It lost power, so there has to be wear/damage somewhere that’s likely visible or measurable.
The Napier hook on the 2nd ring was completely worn off!
@@TotalSealgood stuff. So more surface are in contact with the bore cuz the 2nd ring was worn?
I've gotta 383 I built 16yrs ago, gotta tear it down cuz last person opened it up and didn't seal it properly (oil leak). I might just chuck that 2nd ring and just use a gapless top with no second. Mile wide 5/64 setup. Lots of cycles on the thing so may decide to rebuild and go 1mm or sub package which is what I should do. Probably do the former first just for fun 😅 (mine, not built for someone else).
@@sc358. If you remove the 2nd ring, you will gain horsepower and oil consumption, LOL. We wouldn't recommend it.
tottaly awesome. I tryed some of the A! ss filters back in the 90's on a tripple engine performance boat that got a lot of oil changes.I didnt like the look of the oil when changing it after using the filters for about a month & a half (about 3 oil changes) so i went back to the good ole paper filter.'s. about 800 hp perengine, normally aspirated) so yes your testing confirms what I knew was happening.. but that 10 hp loss you showed...wow!! thats a lot. I wish I were there for the teardown&inspection!! I was a performest machinest&builder,racer, dang I miss all that.
Please do the same test with a large filter magnet installed. Thx
In the late 60's, when we rebuilt diesel engines for UPS, we sprinkled Babo into the intakes to seat the rings.
In South Africa there is a filter brand, GUD. Been using them for years. Never a problem. Actually cut some of them open and compared to the equivalent Hyundai and Toyota filters. They were superior in every respect. And had alot more filter media in them too
yep, dusty areas require far more attention to filtering everything from oil to air.
Those steel filters advertised as oil filters are absolute junk for filtering oil, but they are amazing at filtering coolant! One of those, plus a "remote oil filter relocation" kit (you only use half of it) make a very inexpensive yet extremely effective full-flow washable coolant filtration setup.
Interesting test fellas. How much residual iron do you thing was still in the engine after you drained it from the first test.
We flushed the engine with clean oil after the first test to remove as much residual as possible. The particle count after the first test showed that the vast majority of the iron was removed by the filter.
@@TotalSeal I see. Thank you
Love the empirical testing that actually shows the truth. Thanks lake from an old gear head that back in the day ran havoline
Right on!
As a former diesel mechanic and now a farmer with my own equipment. Oil and filters I will NOT get cheap on. Clean good oil is key to longevity of most anything. It is almost never additives that prolong life.
I mean this with the utmost respect. I love you, nerds. I am a nerd some days and a hard charger other days. But I love watching you guys geek out, and I love to geek out with you. Thanks for explaining things and exercising my brain.
Would have been interesting to record the pressure delta across the filter. Was the bypass disabled / eliminated?
Back in the day, -70’s, with Chevy V-8’s, I’d generally disable / plug the filter pad bypass valve, and run the 2 quart truck filters, for the additional flow volume capacity. Sorry as I don’t recall the filter P/N, off the top of my head
The bypass was not disabled. When we cut the paper filter open, the pleats were not clogged. The 5 grams of powder was not enough to clog the filter media.
On your test rig, I’d like to see a sensor mounted on the bypass valve to measure when and for how long that valve is open, and a graph showing how much of the oil is not being filtered during normal operation. I know it’s open a lot, but I’d like to see you tell us how much.
This looked interesting but I got bored in the middle however in the end my eyes were wide open and I was astonished.
Absolutely wonderful video
Thanks
Thanks for watching!
My dad bought a 327 Chevy engine from a fleet mechanic. He rebuilt it, and for the initial start dribbled a handful of Comet cleanser down the carburetor. Freaked me out to hear that! His philosophy was that the driver was not going to adhere to break in instructions, so a bit of real fine abrasive would seat the rings. He had an excellent test bed of about a hundred trucks being driven by “don’t care how long it lasts “ operators and no negative consequences. Go figure 😂
yikes!
Nahh. I just put a bucket of sand after the air filter..
Very interesting!
Pretty stupid !! If the mechanic honed the cylinders properly for the rings used in the rebuild there shouldn't be any problem with the rings seating.. It's amazing how millions of new cars with new engines leave automotive plants every year and make it fine and working properly by just starting them and delivering them to the dealers without a hitch but mechanics come up with all kind of crazy scenarios and theories about what isn't going to happen properly and insist on finding solutions to imaginary problems and sabotage their own work and customer vehicles.
@@kevindoherty2716 its not always the person working on the car. you have very poor workmanship performed at some machine shops that cut corners to make more money. ive had subpar machining work done at two different shops. there is no way to prove they did wrong unless you tear apart the motor and get in their face and even then no guarantee youll get satisfaction
Love you guys and the knowledge you pass on thx. My question is 2016 ram 6.7 cummins 4th gen 1st owner did factory maintenance at dealer til 60k so 15k intervals. Then i bought it 63k miles start with mopar filters oil Rotella synthetic changes at 10k intervals. Have 98k on it now. Should i do a Valvoline Premium Blue or Valvoline restore to clean motor. I started changing oil filter changes at 90k miles every 5k miles now since I watched your content. Since cummins test their engines with Valvoline, should i stop with Rotella synthetic and which oil filter would you guys recommend. Thank you for any help with fuel additives, too. Driiving 50 50 highway/city 5th wheel 16k lbs and flat bed 4k lbs city in SC.
For a long time I have changed my oil filter again at about 800 miles after I change the oil with a new filter and I never let the car oil go past 1,500 miles.
Cool beans. Ran Fram HP4 filters for 750,000 miles with Rotella oil... still going strong with 12 to 20k change intervals. Duramax LLY.
Oh, boy you just narrowly escaped engine death!
@@chuckschillingvideos narrowly 😂😂
Good test for those that don't know. 40 + years ago my older brother was all about the Oburg type oil filters. They did look cool. On the other hand, my gut feeling was they were more hype than they deserved. I have ALWAYS used a top of the line paper type oil filter for my street/strip cars and have had great success. Looking forward the the teardown.
Thank you!
Agree totally , I was/am the same
About 40 years ago I put an Oberg remote filter [with warning light] on my small block healthy built Ford. With 3 [three] micron screen. Approximately 45k miles since installation. Above 2k rpm 70 psi oil pressure before and now. Checked it after a few years when I discovered a bad set of roller rockers [design error] and valve springs shaving the aluminum retainers. Yes it was all in the filter; looked like aluminum paint. I don't know if 3 micron screens are available in any filters, smallest I've seen is 10. You can get the screen [industrial supply] if you want to make your own filters.
Just for the heck of it a magnet on the filter can like the old timers would do Keep thinking bearing material in oil
@@thomasroth4695 Absolutely. I use them on all the engines I build.
...Those naughty Microns.....My last employment I was the Maintenance Manager...lots of hydraulic stuff...when I bought new oil filters (look and often fit exactly like automotive filters), the choices I usually had were...3, 5 or 10 microns....
Of course they are very expensive...about $$10X the price of a good auto filter....the previous guy had used a big 'engine' oil filter to try saving money...they'd crack/split and lose a lot of oil...quite a mess...the Cost of the correct filter...about $100....cleaning up oil and refilling the hydraulic tank? Certainly more than that..and....I often replaced the cylinder piston seals and moving pressure/seal parts that were exposed ...
I think the 'auto' type filters the guy had been getting were something like 40-50 Microns...
This was 12-13 years ago....prices have probably gone up...
That 427 FE sounds as good as any engine I've ever heard run on a dyno! Does it use a lightweight rotating assembly and high compression pistons? I mean that engine gets from one end of the rpm range to the other as quick as any other engine I've come across.
Great video, in my family we our on our 16 th 300,000 mile GM.. the current vehicle has 338,000 miles on it right now.
Every engine has had the cheapest oil filter OR an AC Delco.. nothing else and we have never had an internal engine problem.. not one...
Thanks for sharing
Excellent anecdote.... also shows that these guys are Beyond OCD with this nonsense 🙄 😒 😑
Which GM engines? Older 5.3’s, 3800’s, 4.3’s ?
@@MikeC-g8f yes.
3.8s, 4.3s 3.3, an iron dude almost made 300k!
And 5.3s.
All ran like new but the vehicles were rusty..
I LOVE the altimeter in the old dyno panel, that's the first laugh I've had today.
Left over from the original dyno
I think the altimeter was used to measure the pressure altitude at the time of the test. Air density changes will effect how a motor performs and corrections are made to the reported output to standardize it.
I was pretty sure the wire filter would do very poorly in this test, as it would in a normal real world driving environment. Very few manufacturers use them, that alone is a bit of evidence to avoid them. For a wire filter to filter down to 4 microns it would have to be huge to not become a flow restriction, it would also require precise manufacturing so it would be very expensive.
Many people don't understand that the micron rating on most filters is a "nominal rating"; meaning that it will let some larger particles through, but will also catch a lot of particles much smaller than the rating. A wire filter is going to catch very few particles below its rating, and most likely pass some that are larger than the rating.
Ive never heard of a screen filter, im a bit concerned that its the same as a synthetic media filter... Can you give some more specific info on the filters you used?
Great video!! Thanks for posting! I've been using Amsoil oil filters over 30+ years.
FYI: "AMSOIL Oil Filters provide a filtering efficiency in accordance with industry standard ISO 4548-12 of 99 percent at 20 microns - one of the best ratings on the market. Some
competitors also claim 99 percent efficiency, but at larger particle sizes of
30 to 40 microns."
Not sure why bypass filters (like AMSOIL makes or other manufacturers make for diesel applications) isn't more common - paired with a Wix racing or Wix XP depending on application.
Those bypass filters work great.
Great video. I was thinking of getting a reusable metal screen filter for my harley instead of the paper filters. After watching this video Im sticking with the disposable paper can filters.
We are glad to help!
Here is food for thought. If your oil filter bypass valve opens at say 16psi and you drive the car normally. The oil presssure remains below the bypass valve opening. If you drive a tad harder, now the filter is in bypass more than filter mode. So my question is this, how effective is your oil filter really?
There is pressure on both sides of the relief so it's actually a 16 PSI differential valve. As long as you are flowing well enough to not have 16 PSI difference across the media it won't bypass.
The filter bypass for a small block Chevy is typically located in the filter housing, thus no need for an internal filter bypass in that case. Nice because you have the option of blocking it to force all the oil through the filter.
Filter bypass valves help prevent filter damage in the case of high pressure delta such as cold starts.
Good video gentlemen! Another variable, direct injection, I've read and been told by a lubrication engineer , direct injection creates some soot, and requires, more frequent oil changes. I have noticed that the oil in direct injection engines, does seem, to get darker, in fewer miles.
Thanks, and that is correct. There’s both soot and extra fuel dilution from DI engines.
The oil coming out of Hondas 1.5 turbo after 2500 miles is black with heavy gasoline smell. We traded that 22 CRV in to get Toyotas 4.0 N/A 4runner.
The factory manual for my GDI turbo specifies an OCI of 3k miles. When you look at the oil it needs to be changed by then. I monitor the oil in all of our GDI engines and I do keep the change interval shorter.
I always stick a large neodymium magnet to my oil filters as well, and hopefully catch way more of those magnetic particles…🧲😎👍!!
hi. I got an oil filter cartridge for a 2007 huynda santa fe. I noticed 3 of the pleats on the filter look like they were knicked by something about 1mm wide so that there's possibly 3 holes, each 1mm in diameter on the affected area. I cant really see with the slight fuzz on the filter media if there are indeed holes but assuming there are, would they likely significantly affect the filtering effectivness til the next oil change?
Had a 1970 VW. the engine didn’t even have an oil filter. I think the oil change interval was 3,000 miles. The first rebuild occured at 133k and the second was at 240k. The crank and bearings were in good shape exhaust valves wore out, and that is why the rebuilds. Oil was straight 30 weight , usually Quaker State. I don’t think this was unusual for those engines.
It wasn't.
Tolerances for those engines were much, much looser than modern engines. A lot more garbage could flow through and with the sloppiness of those clearances it would never notice.
@@JDARJISJ Clearances, not "tolerances"
My uncle back in the day, loved vws, sometime around the mid late 70s his wife bought a new one, red, convertible. He kept the oil changed but I remember him having the valves replaced.
Great video!
- What’s your opinion on magnetic drain plugs?
I feel a paper would be the way to go on a new engine for some time but after miles of break in thers minimal pieces thats where i use a system one wire type and my oil pressure goes way up which says some things about the filter and the bypass both
Did NDT or NDI in the Air Force for 33+ years. Love the good old Magnaflux testing. True test would have been with spectropetric oil analysis, like they use on jet engines.
We actually did that, but the wear metal particles were too big to be detected.
What micron was the iron powder that you added to the oil?
Clearly above the absolute value of the screen. Also note they didn't come up with some form of flush for the test. The screen went second. Run a third test with a paper filter. Cumulative particulate... sizes... lots left out of this test.
I've been using Canton Mecca filters for decades....spin on in my truck and remote housing on my fun car. Both filters are 8 micron and do not go into bypass. Well worth the investment!
We appreciate what you guys do. Thank You so much!
Our pleasure!
Reminds me of a 5.3 i put in a pickup a few years ago. I scraped all the rust out of the block and off the crank as I could. This was a "good" engine i bought off FB marketplace. I had to change the oil filter 3 times in the first 200 miles, first change was 7 miles in.
What difference would a magnet on the filter make?
Both filters actually have magnets in them.
Significant difference with the paper filter , wow ! Good to know my VW GTI uses a paper filter ,whew .
This was awesome! So the paper filter caught all that Iron and the oil pressure was still OK? I would love to see this test with a synthetic media filter and cellulose? if that's any different than paper. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you!
I agree - even doing the semi-controversial filter pre-fill, the new synthetic media flows much much better than cellulose at similar micron ratings. That makes me question: Are the micron ratings accurate? Do the synthetic filter hold less dirt before becoming clogged? Or are they truly a step above?
Agreed,makes no sense in not testing synthetic media filters.
For my engine the best filter is Purflux , mostly Mahle/Kneckt , Hengst and other premium European manufacturers are top notch.
Excellent test, thank you so much guys, keep up the good work, we’re all getting to learn from and with you!
Our pleasure!
I use Magnaflux Magnaglow 14a powder where i work. It's particles are about 6 microns. In theory, a 30 micron filter isn't going to catch many of them. Unless its a paper media (or some composite thereof).
Nice test.
First Happy late birthday Lake, I just saw this video today, also this was an interesting test to see how good the oil filter is. I have always wondered how good a filter does its job. I have also wondered what would happen if you left that filter installed and drained the oil and put a fresh batch of contaminated oil in, is there any filtering ability left in the filter to clean the new oil down to a better condition. I have heard of guys changing filters at half oil change and leave the oil in the engine as supposedly the new filter will clean out the stuff the old filter couldn't catch anymore. I have loved watching these videos, I am a technology nerd, so love to learn stuff, keep up the good work
Thanks for watching. Filters are always filtering some amount of particles. We think it is best to replace the filter when you replace the oil in order to remove those particles from the system completely.
Watch them all, always fun to watch. seldom comment . . Is that a 427 FE on the engine stand?
Thanks for watching. Yes, that was 427 FE on the dyno.
One thing that was missing for me was how to identify which type of filter you are buying, especially in relation to brand. I would love to see a filter teardown so we can see what's good what isn't. (Eg: fram vs Mobil 1 vs Mann)
The wire screen filters are not typical of what is found at a parts store.
@@TotalSeal Were those hydraulic filters?
@@mikw1809 What specific line of Fram filters are you talking about? Can you point a person to this test?
Glad you tested the filter AFTER use not like the other youtube BOZO's who think you can judge a filter that has never been in use! Great job!
How much filtering occurs when the filter bypass is open on the paper filter vs. screen filters that have no bypass?
Apparently quite a bit as the paper filter removed way more of the iron powder than the wire screen filter.
One thing they taught us in tech school that it took me a bit to wrap my head around. I slightly dirty filter does a better job of filtering out smaller particles than a brand new clean one. What happens is the larger particles get trapped in the larger holes in the filter media. So where a brand new one might have 20 micron holes, once those catch debris larger than 20 micron in them they will start catching particles smaller than its rating at the costof potential oil flow through the media. It will eventually get so good at filtering it wont even allow the oil to go through essentially.
On iron particles how well do you think a magnet would help ?
Caterpillar has or had a magnetic filter with a brass strainer in their hydraulic system. When you pulled it out there was always fine particles on it from wear. Like dust. What you looked for was slivers or bits that were larger indicating a larger problem.
The spring on the Wix filter is magnetic, and the wire screen filter also had a magnet. As such, both tests had a magnet helping with the filtration.
@@TotalSealThe magnets do help to remove ferrous metal from the oil. The fine particles with oil in the magnetic field gets almost like grease. The prìncipal for the magnahelic shocks.
@@TotalSeal did not know that about the spring . Are most filters this way or just six ?
@@derickmorgan4956 Can't say. We know the Wix/NAPA filters do.
Do you believe highly in oil bypass filters for diesel
Fantastic video. Very very informative!
Glad it was helpful!
I'm still running a 5hp Briggs & Stratton engine on a Montgomery Ward front tiller that I bought in 1983. That thing has been through 41 oil changes and still runs, no oil filter!
Filter media life.
I worked for BMW while they transitioned from 3-5,000 mile Conventional oil chg. intervals to Synthetic oil and 15,000/ oil condition service indicator light intervals. The plain BMW cellulose-based oil filters quickly hardened, collapsed, cracked and broke up . Then quickly BMW (Mann) filters contained a Synthetic media to last the ridiculous BMW Free Maintenance intervals.
Its amazing how many leasing customers refused to bring cars in even once a year for free oil changes. The engines were sludge boxes after 30k to 45k miles. Warranty canceled, all claims denied. Customers pays for stupidity and engine overhaul.
Pkease conduct an oil filter comparison. Its ss important ss the oil it self .
Congratulations on this great channel. A lubricants gold standard.
🛢️💦👍👍👍👍👍🏆
Is the methanol sparying on the temp sensor and could this also be affecting the reported temp? Fantastic video though, would love to see more of you working on this system and the van
So now a future video I could see in the works.... Which brand oil filters "scientifically" walk the walk and filter the best and which ones are marketing hype? 😁
What’s the particle size distribution of the magnaflux powder?
People that use wire mesh oil filters probably use the same oily/cotton air filters too. I bet they also think they filter better than paper, they might flow more air but they aren't catching what paper does.
LOL
I see it is just over a year ago but what Oil and Grade was used, just curious.
OUTSTANDING effort
gentlemen !
:)
Thanks!
I've watched about Additives, Zinc and Filter Types...
What Brand of Screen Mesh Filter were you Testing?
Filter Types stood out the most to me 🥺
I'm currently running K&P Screen Filters in two of four Vehicles (I would have Screen Filters in three of four of K&P offered a Screen Filter for my 2007 Audi A6 Avant 3.2L).
I've been running a K&P Screen Filter in my 1983 Suzuki GS1100ES since around 2007?
It currently has around 8,500 Miles (purchased new in April of 1983)
I've been running a K&P Screen Filter in my 2015 Sea Doo GTX iS 260 Limited PWC since soon after I purchased used with 54 Hours in April of 2020.
It now has about 230 Hours and I've discovered that it must be down on HP?
I haven't completed my process of elimination yet (I've tinkered and changed many things along the way), it's very possible that it's down on HP due to the "Ribbon Delete" that I performed well over a year ago?
I've ordered a almost new Intake Manifold with Injectors from a Powersports Parts Recycler (pulled from a 2016 RXT 260 with only 33 Hours) which won't arrive until late in the day Monday (FedEx).
It never dawned on me that the Screen Oil Filter I've been using could be killing HP?
FYI: I know that it's down on HP due to Max RPM nor Max Speed is no longer being achieved.
First thought it was the Aftermarket Impeller (Solas SRZ-CD-15).
I purchased a Used slightly damaged OEM Impeller and just by chance I was invited to a friend's Fishing Camp on Dickinson Bayou Texas which is Brackish Water as opposed to the Salt Water I predominantly ride in on Galveston Bay and the Gulf of Mexico (I live on the West End of Galveston Island in Texas).
On Dickinson Bayou with the OEM Impeller I was easily hitting the Max RPM Limit of the ECM of 8,000 RPM but only seeing 65 MPH (should be at least 67 MPH).
Following week I dropped it in Galveston Bay...
Now only achieving 64 MPH @ 7,800 RPM.
Only change was the salinity of the Water.
Next change will be the Set of Fuel Injectors.
Then back to the Solas Impeller...
I had been achieving 65 MPH @ 7,600 RPM on Galveston Bay.
Lastly I will swap out the Intake Manifold with the Bone Stock Unit and Test again.
If it's still not Performing as it should (7,900-8,000 RPM at 67 MPH or higher? / I currently am running a fairly New Stock International Version ECM with a GPS Speed Limit of 72 MPH), then the problem could be excessive Engine Wear due to the use of the K&P Screen Oil Filter?
BTW: I've been running nothing but Shell Rotella T-4 15W-40
I will keep you updated.
Hopefully you have found this story interesting? 😜
I'm a retired Professional Wrench (Audi's are my Specialty, retired since June of 2018, I'm 68 currently)
So how the hell does this help the average car owner looking for a quality Brand name oil filter? At one time there were guys on here saying FRAM was totally crap. You guys seemed to show a Wix one here, which i started using (Wix Gold) because Channels on here recommended it. Now i just watched another guy proclaiming FRAM TITANIUM was the best and he wouldn't even consider using Wix. All most car owners want to know is Brand and cost. For me, i don't really care about cost, as long as i am getting a top-quality filter that is doing its job. I had a 1991 VW TD that had 698,714KM on it that got totaled by an asshole running a red light. I had used Bosch filters (conventional oil) in it until i could not get locally so switched to Wix Gold. The engine was still running great and i had stuck to VW recommended oil change intervals 8000KM. It would be barely off the full mark by that time---maybe 1/2 liter down at the most. Drove 220-230KM per day Mon.-Fri. with Winter Temp. down to MINUS 30F and lower.
The Wix filters are what we use. The results from this test showed they work really well.
Any reputable brand name (including OEM) filter will be fine! Debating the ins and outs of various oil filters is more for "fun" really IMO.
Magnetic drain plug? Tried the blackie carbon test? How does the oil pump look?(wear before the filters?)
Both filters had magnets in them. The drain plug had the oil temp probe in it.
@@TotalSeal thanks were the magnets loaded What would best rings to replace Sealed powerfile fit ductile moly 1/16 top on mopar 6 pack piston I have access to my old CK 10 build is 40 years old my motorhome D dish 9:1 .030 quench JONES cam
If you are using the old pistons, contact our tech support team with the ring groove dimensions. They can recommend the appropriate ring set. 623-587-7400