Which One Of These Oil Filters RUINED This Engine?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ค. 2023
- The job of the oil filter is pretty straightforward - remove contamination from the oil. That seems fairly simple, but not all filters do that job the same. In this test, we intentionally contaminate the engine oil and run it in our dyno mule engine to see how well two different filters perform. More importantly, what happens to the engine when we contaminate the oil?
#engine #dyno #oil #oilfilter
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#1 cause of engine failure as I recall being a mechanic for some years - was nearly always coolant related. If a problem with cooling system didnt take out its engine - then it at least spelled out the the beginning of the end. Pay attention to cooling system!
Great point
I look at my temp gauge religiously.
Actually, funny story - in my manual Civic, the speedometer doesn’t work. I was explaining to a coworker that I didn’t need the speedo to work, I didn’t need the gas gauge to work, I didn’t even need the tach to drive (you could feel out the shifts), but the one thing I absolutely needed to drive was the temp gauge. You have to know the second you start to overheat
Oof I might need to flush my coolant then.
@@Lukebarcaif you don't like every 40k and you drive hard or in hot areas you will blow your head gasket and that can be worse than destroying your transmission.
@LOVEisACTIONABLE I got it done a few days after I saw this. It was dirty, and I just replaced the pump. I think coolant is overlooked by a lot of people.
The Standard "Dust" they refer to is actually "Arizona Road Dust". We worked for Pratt & Whitney making engines and fuel systems. Filter testing was always a part of each Engine qualification. In our case, we would mix up POUNDS of dust and kept it agitated in a drum to be pumped to the engine test cell. Pall Corporation is the leading manufacturer of fuel and oil filters for commercial aircraft engines.
Thanks for sharing!
The ASTM / SAE / OSU (Oklahoma State Univ.) - F1 particle test stand - specification for IC engines for many years 'was' 20 micrometers (µM) as the **most damaging particle**, now being upgraded to much lower µM by the more 'sophisitcated' engine manufacturers. Recirculating oil filters do not filter to 100% removal; but, are 'statistical reduction devices' ..... depending on how quickly these particles 'eventually' are retained. However most of these particals in nature have an electronic surface charge, and the filter media (resinated paper) are designed/selected to have the opposite electronic surface charge - electronic attraction. The faster (and more volume of oil) the contaminated recirculating oil flows 'through' a filter - so, the more efficient filter will have the larger amount of filter paper surface area for less pressure drop and more rapid 'turnover' of the oil in the sump. However due the surface charge effect of particles and filter media once thoroughly contaminated, the particles will tend to 'agglomerate' (stick/'clump') together into larger and larger and large particles - that is why one changes both the oil AND the filter AT or before the OEM recommended changeout interval ..... remembering that the OEM changeout interval was based on highway speed /steady state (cruise contol ON) driving. For non-steady state, stop and go city driving - change the oil at HALF the recommended interval (..... especially on IC engines that have 'loose tension' piston rings - virtually all IC engines since about 2010-12 due to their propensity to build up (from blow-by) carbon deposits 'behind' the piston rings and with tendancy for the now 'stuck' rings from moving; hence **stuck** engine piston rings and the higher probability of catastrophic cylinder wall wear !!!!).
Rx: If predominantly (90%) driving 'highway speeds' follow the OEM changeout specification. For 'city driving' which involves a LOT accelerating and decelerating and idling ... change the oil an d filter at HALF the OEM changeout recommendation.
Rx: Always choose the filter with the largest 'surface area' (number of pleates). USA, EU and Japanese filters are the choice .... and are typically supplied with a resinated filter paper from a single world supplier - Ahlstrom of Finland, or equivalent etc. .... stay away from Chinese, etc. made oil filters which are 'variable' and inconsistant in filter retention. However, NEVER choose an oil filter with a 'smaller/finer' µM retention specification ... as all you will do is SLOW DOWN the particle removal from the oil .... with MUCH LESS oil 'turnover' through the filter,
Lastly, Changing the oil at or BEFORE the recommended changeout interval is one hell of a lot CHEAPER than changing prematurely to a NEW vehicle or replacement engine. I usually get ~200-300k+ miles from my IC engines (I rarely 'beat' my engines). Was a filtration engineer (Pall Corp, etc.) for ~30 years).
Thanks… for sharing.. I am an old Car nut, DIYOURSELFER.
GM used to sell that dust in a large poly bottle with an AC Delco part number (maybe they still do?). We used it for a lot of different development tests.
@@richh1576re your ...."witha smaller/finer (size symbol) retention specification": i ask, than what? Most if not all filters available for sale here in the U.S of mainstream brands range tween 20 and 30 microns.
Good grief. This is the type of content that provides an actual test to the theory and empirical results. Excellent video!
Thanks!
@@TotalSeal THIS IS AWESOME...THANKS SOOOO MUCH guys!!!!
@@TotalSeal The BEST engine oil filter on the planet...in every aspect...is WIX-XP. Believe me, I've done extensive tests on every brand available to
the average consumer. WIX-XP beats them all on every level.
Best regards,
Ben
@@duygukayhanisaskank4915 what extensive tests? got a link to your video? research? white paper?
The WIX XP isn't as efficient as many others on the market, and those other filters that are much more efficient also flow just as good as the WIX XP. Independent lab ISO 4548-12 testing proves that. It would have been nice to see that same particle count test done after running a filter that's rated at 99% efficient @ 20 microns and greater. The WIX XP is only around 62% efficient @ 20 microns and greater.
I would LOVE to see the engine damage caused by this test!!!
We will show that in a future video!
I'm gonna be on the lookout for that video!
I've told you a million times not to exaggerate!!
Excellent test, thank you so much guys, keep up the good work, we’re all getting to learn from and with you!
Our pleasure!
HBD Lake, i admire your enthusiasm guys
Would like to see filter brands performance comparison from regular duty filter to full blown race filter
Good stuff Guys!! Appreciate your work!
Our pleasure!
Tks so much, i liked the interation both of you had in the video....
Glad you enjoyed it!
Years ago, we would add the bypass Franz type filter to the regular full flow filter system. We would check and change the filter in the Franz every thousand miles. On top of the filter element we could see what might be changing in the motor as far as wear. A couple of times we saw something that caused us to go in the motor and see what was going on. Is was a good thing we did. This helped prevent more damage to the motor, as the filter showed bearing material on one occasion. On all motors we built over the years, we would block the bypass in the housing where the filter would go on. You did not rev the motor when the oil was cold when you did this. This stopped all metal from doing any bearing damage from a camshaft losing a lobe, or other problem that could contaminate the oil.
Thanks for sharing!
Invaluable information, I subscribed after watching the first video. Look forward to seeing much more.
Awesome, thank you!
The synthetic media filters are even better not only with particulate matter but flow also. In my testing the Purolator Boss filter is a great filter
Thanks for sharing!
Agreed. I like the BOSS or the Wix XP (also Napa platinum) for great flow, build quality, and filter material with robust backing
Great information and video. Thanks guys.
Our pleasure!
Fantastic video. Very very informative!
Glad it was helpful!
Love your work fellas! ❤
Glad you enjoy it!
What micron was the iron powder that you added to the oil?
Great video! Nice to see a bit calmer Lake Speed here. Happy Birthday!
Thank you very much!
Very cool video, enjoy seeing the data you collect and share.
Glad you enjoyed it
First Happy late birthday Lake, I just saw this video today, also this was an interesting test to see how good the oil filter is. I have always wondered how good a filter does its job. I have also wondered what would happen if you left that filter installed and drained the oil and put a fresh batch of contaminated oil in, is there any filtering ability left in the filter to clean the new oil down to a better condition. I have heard of guys changing filters at half oil change and leave the oil in the engine as supposedly the new filter will clean out the stuff the old filter couldn't catch anymore. I have loved watching these videos, I am a technology nerd, so love to learn stuff, keep up the good work
Thanks for watching. Filters are always filtering some amount of particles. We think it is best to replace the filter when you replace the oil in order to remove those particles from the system completely.
I love how much fun you have with all the ooil and ooil applications
Absolutely!
Would be nice to see a FilterMag incorporated into one of the test. Have been using them for decades. I use a cutting tool made by FilterMag to cut open my used filters. You would be amazed at the amount of metallic sludge that is held to the sidewall of the filter can. Great content guys 👍🇺🇲👊
The FilterMag product works well. Both of these filters actually contained magnets, so there was some magnetic filtration occurring.
In diesels the primary enemy is soot/ash in the 2-25 micron range which need a bypass filtration system to catch i.e. Amsoil EABP
I like that the magnet stays in the side instead of the end to keep anti drain back seal clear.
Lake Jr thank you for sharing all these awesome videos with great tests and information. My 2002 Suburban 5.3l with 163,000 miles has always had its oil changed at 5000 miles with full synthetic by Driven HR oil. Suburban runs super strong with awesome torque just like it was new and its stock as can be. Can’t even hear the thing idling when you stand 10 ft away from it. Can’t even feel it when it’s idling when I’m at a traffic light idling. a must keep that filter and oil clean. 😊
Right on!
car did 166000 miles before rust took it from me. Filter and oil changed every 2 years. 9-12k, save yourself some money
I showed this video to my 30 year old push mower and it laughed.
LOL
Very informative. I went out to the shop and pulled off my steel mesh 45-micron filter and installed a WIX #57099 oil filter. This is on a .030" over bored 454 moderate street build. Five hundred and ten (510) horsepower on the dyno. Thanks, gentlemen and Cheers!
We are glad it helped!
Was it a WIx filter? He had a Napa Gold in his hand when they started. I didn't hear them say the brands tested? The Gold is 23 microns and enhanced cellulose.
@@user-ik4fd9ny4b Howdy, read my original post, the Wix number is there. If it helps the filter is the black one, Cheers!
These results were amazing, great job!
Before you wrap up, give the old-school 'toilet paper roll' oil filter a test. You do recall the Franz filter don't you?
Thank you!
Happy Birthday Lake! Sounds like using an expensive oil filter isn't always best.
The cheaper product won this one!
Fantastic test!!! I’ve never liked the steel mesh filters mainly because you never really know if you have it clean before reinstalling it, let alone the lack of filtration like you have shown here.
Thank you!
In my recent engine replacement, I seriously considered a centrifuge like some truck/prime movers/mining engine put decided against it as it also is a moving part (which wears and eventually needs replacement), instead I change oil, first with a flush, then every 5000 klms use an antiwear additive with quality oil filter.
As well I will only use quality fully synthetic oil.
Then, every 50,000 klms I do a second flush with flushing agent (no antiwear added) and drive it 20 minutes at 100 klm/hr, then change it for the oil and antiwear additive for the next 5000 klms.
The reason why I am so pedantic about this as I had a cracked piston on a 2007 Toyota LC Prado diesel 3.0 Turbo and Intercooled and want to do everything possible to avoid another failure.
It shouldn’t happen as the pistons are not factory which have been the problem.
I would have liked to use the total seal piston rings, but I didn’t know about them at that stage. Next time definitely.
I might specify Mahle Motorsport pistons as well.
Oh, I will no longer tow anything greater than a 700 kg box trailer.
I believe towing the 2.4 ton full sized van contributed to the failure, however I was the second owner and I have no idea what they towed.
The engine code is 1kD-FTV and it’s common for these around the world to crack pistons.
It’s the pistons Toyota use that are the problem-they just can’t take the heat.
I change my injectors every 150,000 klms, so that will not be the cause.
I also use a fuel lubricity additive as well as a decarboniser in every tank.
I have several digital gauges one is an EGT.
I also have installed an Engine Guard which shows me the head temperature (thermocouple sensor) as well I have set the alarm at 90 degrees as an early warning.
This model Engine Guard monitors the oil pressure with an alarm set as well.
I don’t have an oil temperature gauge, which is my next project.
Oh, I have a Provent catch can installed, so this helps to keep the engine cleaner.
OUTSTANDING effort
gentlemen !
:)
Thanks!
Would have really liked to actually see the bearings, cam, pistons, rings, and cylinder walls.
It lost power, so there has to be wear/damage somewhere that’s likely visible or measurable.
The Napier hook on the 2nd ring was completely worn off!
@@TotalSealgood stuff. So more surface are in contact with the bore cuz the 2nd ring was worn?
I've gotta 383 I built 16yrs ago, gotta tear it down cuz last person opened it up and didn't seal it properly (oil leak). I might just chuck that 2nd ring and just use a gapless top with no second. Mile wide 5/64 setup. Lots of cycles on the thing so may decide to rebuild and go 1mm or sub package which is what I should do. Probably do the former first just for fun 😅 (mine, not built for someone else).
@@sc358. If you remove the 2nd ring, you will gain horsepower and oil consumption, LOL. We wouldn't recommend it.
Good video gentlemen! Another variable, direct injection, I've read and been told by a lubrication engineer , direct injection creates some soot, and requires, more frequent oil changes. I have noticed that the oil in direct injection engines, does seem, to get darker, in fewer miles.
Thanks, and that is correct. There’s both soot and extra fuel dilution from DI engines.
The oil coming out of Hondas 1.5 turbo after 2500 miles is black with heavy gasoline smell. We traded that 22 CRV in to get Toyotas 4.0 N/A 4runner.
The factory manual for my GDI turbo specifies an OCI of 3k miles. When you look at the oil it needs to be changed by then. I monitor the oil in all of our GDI engines and I do keep the change interval shorter.
@@TonyTundra5.7That could be the early DPF implementation causing that. During DPF regen, excess fuel is added into the mix to burn off the carbon. If the regens aren't allowed to complete and engine is switched off, that fuel is dumped into the sump. Most people don't even realise when their engines are in the process of regen, so this is common with this early DPF implementation. The Mazda6 2.2 diesel I owned had a min / max and X mark on the dipstick. The oil never needed topping up. At oil change, you always end up with more oil/diesel mix being drained out than went in fresh.
Happy belated birthday, Lake. Great info sir, thank you.
Thank you kindly!
tottaly awesome. I tryed some of the A! ss filters back in the 90's on a tripple engine performance boat that got a lot of oil changes.I didnt like the look of the oil when changing it after using the filters for about a month & a half (about 3 oil changes) so i went back to the good ole paper filter.'s. about 800 hp perengine, normally aspirated) so yes your testing confirms what I knew was happening.. but that 10 hp loss you showed...wow!! thats a lot. I wish I were there for the teardown&inspection!! I was a performest machinest&builder,racer, dang I miss all that.
I wish you would show the tear down and how much damage was done. Thanks
We are going to cover that in a future video.
Great video, in my family we our on our 16 th 300,000 mile GM.. the current vehicle has 338,000 miles on it right now.
Every engine has had the cheapest oil filter OR an AC Delco.. nothing else and we have never had an internal engine problem.. not one...
Thanks for sharing
Excellent anecdote.... also shows that these guys are Beyond OCD with this nonsense 🙄 😒 😑
Which GM engines? Older 5.3’s, 3800’s, 4.3’s ?
@@Gracies_vlogs yes.
3.8s, 4.3s 3.3, an iron dude almost made 300k!
And 5.3s.
All ran like new but the vehicles were rusty..
Good test for those that don't know. 40 + years ago my older brother was all about the Oburg type oil filters. They did look cool. On the other hand, my gut feeling was they were more hype than they deserved. I have ALWAYS used a top of the line paper type oil filter for my street/strip cars and have had great success. Looking forward the the teardown.
Thank you!
Agree totally , I was/am the same
About 40 years ago I put an Oberg remote filter [with warning light] on my small block healthy built Ford. With 3 [three] micron screen. Approximately 45k miles since installation. Above 2k rpm 70 psi oil pressure before and now. Checked it after a few years when I discovered a bad set of roller rockers [design error] and valve springs shaving the aluminum retainers. Yes it was all in the filter; looked like aluminum paint. I don't know if 3 micron screens are available in any filters, smallest I've seen is 10. You can get the screen [industrial supply] if you want to make your own filters.
Just for the heck of it a magnet on the filter can like the old timers would do Keep thinking bearing material in oil
@@thomasroth4695 Absolutely. I use them on all the engines I build.
I have a 2003 Dixie Chopper 60" mower, with a Kohler CV745 fuel injected engine. The engine has 2610 hours on it. It is the equivalent of 156,600 miles on a car engine. In the late '90s and early '00s, Dixie Chopper installed Amsoil 1 micron bypass filters on most of their mowers. My mower still has great compression and doesn't burn any oil. I attribute this wholely to the Amsoil bypass filter. Can you guys run your same tests, but with a Amsoil bypass filter installed too?
Bypass filters absolutely make a huge difference!
Wow, incredible results! I expected the paper filter to work better than the wire filter, but I never could have guessed that the difference would be so dramatic. It would also be cool to see oil filter magnets and magnetic drain plugs tested to see how effective they are. I've always used magnetic drain plugs for everything and magnets on the oil filter for piece of mind and they definitely catch particles, but it would be cool to see actual data.
Thanks for watching. Both filters actually contained magnets, so there was some level of magnetic filtration as well.
@@TotalSeal Wow, did the filters come with the magnets? I'm not sure about the metal filters, but I've never seen a paper filter include a magnet unless you guys added them. Also, it would have been interesting to see what the magnets captured in this test IMO.
@@averyalexander2303 Yes, both filters actually came with magnets installed. Unfortunately, we did not take any video of the magnets after the tests.
@@TotalSeal Wow, interesting. I'm surprised that just having a magnet in the wire screen filter didn't remove more of the iron particles. Maybe using a magnet that wraps around nearly the entire outside of the filter like Filtermags would have been more effective since it would directly expose a lot of the oil flow to the magnetized filter can.
I used to use magnets, but with all aluminum engines I wonder how much iron is really in there? My older engines would show some particles when they were new and then clean-up.
My dad bought a 327 Chevy engine from a fleet mechanic. He rebuilt it, and for the initial start dribbled a handful of Comet cleanser down the carburetor. Freaked me out to hear that! His philosophy was that the driver was not going to adhere to break in instructions, so a bit of real fine abrasive would seat the rings. He had an excellent test bed of about a hundred trucks being driven by “don’t care how long it lasts “ operators and no negative consequences. Go figure 😂
I was pretty sure the wire filter would do very poorly in this test, as it would in a normal real world driving environment. Very few manufacturers use them, that alone is a bit of evidence to avoid them. For a wire filter to filter down to 4 microns it would have to be huge to not become a flow restriction, it would also require precise manufacturing so it would be very expensive.
Many people don't understand that the micron rating on most filters is a "nominal rating"; meaning that it will let some larger particles through, but will also catch a lot of particles much smaller than the rating. A wire filter is going to catch very few particles below its rating, and most likely pass some that are larger than the rating.
It's nice to inform us with this information, it would be even better if you'd post the numbers up so we can visually see it.
Watch them all, always fun to watch. seldom comment . . Is that a 427 FE on the engine stand?
Thanks for watching. Yes, that was 427 FE on the dyno.
Great video and info!! I recently found your channel and I’m definitely a new 👍.
Sir let me ask you with you being in the industry that you’re in what are the best rings to use to your knowledge? I’m building a Coyote 5.0 first gen engine for a mustang? Thank you sir.
Welcome aboard!
That 427 FE sounds as good as any engine I've ever heard run on a dyno! Does it use a lightweight rotating assembly and high compression pistons? I mean that engine gets from one end of the rpm range to the other as quick as any other engine I've come across.
hi. I got an oil filter cartridge for a 2007 huynda santa fe. I noticed 3 of the pleats on the filter look like they were knicked by something about 1mm wide so that there's possibly 3 holes, each 1mm in diameter on the affected area. I cant really see with the slight fuzz on the filter media if there are indeed holes but assuming there are, would they likely significantly affect the filtering effectivness til the next oil change?
Awesomt test. Science for the win. Keep'em coming 👍👍👍
Thanks! Will do!
knew it that napa gold is working good for my harley its k&n
lake are you and keith coming to maple grove this year
Keith is coming to Maple Grove for the NHRA this year.
@@TotalSeal ok cool
Would have been interesting to record the pressure delta across the filter. Was the bypass disabled / eliminated?
Back in the day, -70’s, with Chevy V-8’s, I’d generally disable / plug the filter pad bypass valve, and run the 2 quart truck filters, for the additional flow volume capacity. Sorry as I don’t recall the filter P/N, off the top of my head
The bypass was not disabled. When we cut the paper filter open, the pleats were not clogged. The 5 grams of powder was not enough to clog the filter media.
On your test rig, I’d like to see a sensor mounted on the bypass valve to measure when and for how long that valve is open, and a graph showing how much of the oil is not being filtered during normal operation. I know it’s open a lot, but I’d like to see you tell us how much.
As a former diesel mechanic and now a farmer with my own equipment. Oil and filters I will NOT get cheap on. Clean good oil is key to longevity of most anything. It is almost never additives that prolong life.
I feel a paper would be the way to go on a new engine for some time but after miles of break in thers minimal pieces thats where i use a system one wire type and my oil pressure goes way up which says some things about the filter and the bypass both
In South Africa there is a filter brand, GUD. Been using them for years. Never a problem. Actually cut some of them open and compared to the equivalent Hyundai and Toyota filters. They were superior in every respect. And had alot more filter media in them too
yep, dusty areas require far more attention to filtering everything from oil to air.
Great video
As a swede iam a bit lost in translation.
Wire screen is that what is called syntethic filter on bitog?
Thanks for watching. The wire screen is a metal filter not a synthetic.
Good info thanks 👍👍👍
No problem 👍
Thank you for your knowledge and video's USA 🇺🇸
Thanks for watching!
Years ago on air cooled roller crank bikes they used screen filters along with centrifugal filters and a magnetic drain plug to capture particles in oil . The temperatures in those air cooled motors could reach 300 degrees . The engines carried only 2 quarts and this was conventional oil . Along with that the engine was sharing the oil with the transmission !
I never put more than 500 miles on the oil and cleaned the screen filter and magnets every time .
Friends always wondered what I had done to make my bike run better than theirs ! lol
It was my secret ! 😅
Filtration is tough. I ran a satellite diesel shop for a major trucking company and they decided to save money on oil by staying with conventional oils and regular oil changes. The reason is that even though the synthetic oils are up to the task of longer oil change intervals, filtration is not! The oil would still get too much contamination and require regular changes. I still service my cars by this same principle 20 years later.
always Amsoil Signature Series and NAPA Platinum filters. No issues and 198k km on a LT engine. most gave up in the 120k km range so its a win for me.
I would liked to have seen the condition of the mains and rod bearing finishes.
We are filming that next week!
@@TotalSeal I look forward to the carnage. I learn a lot from destruction analysis. I don't have a big company behind me, but everything that breaks I try to find a way to make it stronger so don't break under the same conditions.
My question is at what point during running and revving the engine does the bypass valve opens ,then when it does do the wash off from the media harm the engine or it matter and why?
The revving of the engine should not open the bypass valve in and of itself. The bypass only opens when there is a differential in pressure across the filter, so the change in oil system pressure does not change differential pressure.
I thought the mesh filter would be worse. Paper is simple and efficient. BUT it does not come apart. I have had 2 engines full of filter paper. A Cleveland that was probably 2 years overdue for an oil and filter change. And a cheap filter to start with. One side of the engine was very rattly, blocked the lifter gallery.
The other was a Camry 2 litre. Had been serviced some months ago but just in the window. That became a mess, it blocked top end oiling and stuffed the cams. Yet another used engine!! Both of these were used cars that I owned. The Ford was engine out and a big clean out. Reassemble and was still running several years later when we traded it back. And yes we changed the filter a couple of times before it went to a new home.
The Camry was in effect stuffed, and ,,,,,, genuine Toymota filter, Oopps
Good video. Any video on oil flush cleaners?
Stay tuned!
So what brand of filter was the wire mesh filter? And how about paper vs the synthetic filter medias most companies are using these days.
This was awesome! So the paper filter caught all that Iron and the oil pressure was still OK? I would love to see this test with a synthetic media filter and cellulose? if that's any different than paper. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you!
I agree - even doing the semi-controversial filter pre-fill, the new synthetic media flows much much better than cellulose at similar micron ratings. That makes me question: Are the micron ratings accurate? Do the synthetic filter hold less dirt before becoming clogged? Or are they truly a step above?
Agreed,makes no sense in not testing synthetic media filters.
Not sure why bypass filters (like AMSOIL makes or other manufacturers make for diesel applications) isn't more common - paired with a Wix racing or Wix XP depending on application.
Those bypass filters work great.
If that is a flat tappet cam I bet the cam got hit hard. Paper filters are hard to beat for function. I see the same with air filters s good paper keeps things clean but takes a lot of surface area to not be restrictive. K&n style filters flow like crazy but let a lot of dirt go by
Absolutely!
I've used K&N air filters for many years in my CR-V for more than 10 years without a problem.
@@mnrodriguez Same here, but I clean them annually and re-oil them as the oil is part of the particle capture. I follow the instructions and don't over oil them ever. Never had an issue with a sensor (MAF) and I tend to keep my cars between 100k miles and 200k miles without any noticeable wear (oil usage).
The purpose of air filtration is massively undermined in modern engines due to exhaust gas recirculation requirements. All those carbon deposits and sludge get fed fed back in to your clean air. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
@@mikw1809 I used catch cans in all my cars so there is a little reduction.
For a long time I have changed my oil filter again at about 800 miles after I change the oil with a new filter and I never let the car oil go past 1,500 miles.
Great job guys
Thanks!
would love to see this test using a K&P Engineering filter, as that is the gold standard of mesh reusable filters, and the only 1 allowed by the FAA to be used on aircraft engines
I have never owned a lot of cars over my lifetime because when I was younger I couldn’t afford to drive anything nice. I have been a mechanic since I graduated high school, then worked later as an electrician. Finally I worked as. Tech support engineer for a large air compressor company. It has been my experience that if you use a fairly good oil and filter and change your engine oil on a regular basis you’ll never have any problems. If you keep you air filter and intake system tight you will never get much dirt in you oil to begin with. I will never forget a small two cylinder diesel engine in a 60” mower that the company I worked for sold. It kept burning oil after about 50 hours and we couldn’t find any problems, we thought there’s something wrong with the engine so we would replace it. Then it would fail again after 50 hours. We finally found that the intake was cracked causing unfiltered air to enter the engine. Being a mower it was in a constant dust storm all day long. I am now retired and the last car I owned was a Honda Civic, I got over 275,000 miles on the car and used Walmart SuperTec oil and filters, never had any problems. I bought a 2015 Altima and have 130,000 on it and have never had any problems either using the same oil and filters. I bought my wife a Tesla Model Y LR AWD in June this year and that should solve my oil change problem on that car 😊. So far it has been great.
Thanks for sharing!
The one problem i see how you did the test is that even thou you change the oil , the motor will still have remnants of first test with with powder in it. Should of tore down and cleaned motor then run second test. Then see what the difference was.
We flushed the engine with clean oil between the two tests, and the particle count of the first used oil sample showed a much lower count than the oil being added for the first test. Based on, the delta between the “new” and “used” oil on both tests was considerable.
Ive never heard of a screen filter, im a bit concerned that its the same as a synthetic media filter... Can you give some more specific info on the filters you used?
I've been using Canton Mecca filters for decades....spin on in my truck and remote housing on my fun car. Both filters are 8 micron and do not go into bypass. Well worth the investment!
For my engine the best filter is Purflux , mostly Mahle/Kneckt , Hengst and other premium European manufacturers are top notch.
Interesting test fellas. How much residual iron do you thing was still in the engine after you drained it from the first test.
We flushed the engine with clean oil after the first test to remove as much residual as possible. The particle count after the first test showed that the vast majority of the iron was removed by the filter.
@@TotalSeal I see. Thank you
nice so far for the filter-material. but what about the filter by-pass design?
A bypass filter would be even better!
@@TotalSeal most of the oil filters are a bypass design. meaning they leave the oil unfiltered in cold-start-conditions, when oilpressure; s very high.
but how can this be good?
@@rustonwheels3064 I thought you meant a true bypass filter, which is a secondary filter that pulls oil from the sump and returns it to the sump. These are also called kidney loop filters. They do an amazing job of lowering contamination in the system.
@@TotalSeal no, i just meant the average normal oil filter. As long as the regular oil filter bypasses the filterelement at a frequent regular engine condition, the filter abilities of the filterelement fade to the background, i assume.
...Those naughty Microns.....My last employment I was the Maintenance Manager...lots of hydraulic stuff...when I bought new oil filters (look and often fit exactly like automotive filters), the choices I usually had were...3, 5 or 10 microns....
Of course they are very expensive...about $$10X the price of a good auto filter....the previous guy had used a big 'engine' oil filter to try saving money...they'd crack/split and lose a lot of oil...quite a mess...the Cost of the correct filter...about $100....cleaning up oil and refilling the hydraulic tank? Certainly more than that..and....I often replaced the cylinder piston seals and moving pressure/seal parts that were exposed ...
I think the 'auto' type filters the guy had been getting were something like 40-50 Microns...
This was 12-13 years ago....prices have probably gone up...
Did I see you fill the filter after you mixed in the ferrous powder ?? that kind of defeats having the filter, does it not ??? thought the tests would show how much the filter trapped??
Very very cool, informative…I considered a wire mesh for daily driving but not now
Glad it helped!
Can you tell us what filters were used for this test?
No, we are not trying to disparage any filter.
If you watch very closely, you can identify which ones they are using.
One thing that was missing for me was how to identify which type of filter you are buying, especially in relation to brand. I would love to see a filter teardown so we can see what's good what isn't. (Eg: fram vs Mobil 1 vs Mann)
The wire screen filters are not typical of what is found at a parts store.
@@TotalSeal Were those hydraulic filters?
Such a small interval test would not convince me about the suitability of an oil filter. I need to see the state of the internals of that filter after a few thousand miles. For example, it was observed in a number of tests that the Fram filter seal became detached once it reacted with hot oil over a few months of use. At that point, very little filtering is happening, as the oil passes through unrestricted. There isn't anything complicated in an oil filter. The fact that Fram got this so badly wrong is conclusive enough for me that they should be avoided at all costs
People that use wire mesh oil filters probably use the same oily/cotton air filters too. I bet they also think they filter better than paper, they might flow more air but they aren't catching what paper does.
LOL
Hello from Oamaru New Zealand.
What's your take on the Amsoil Ea filter?.
That’s a good filter.
I did not see any place in your video, where you removed the filter bypass. Was it still in the filter adapter?
The bypass was in place.
So you are only filtering about 40% of the oil?@@TotalSeal
I've been running a stainless wire mesh K&P reusable oil filter on my highly modified Harley engine for years now. It is rated by K&P as a 35 micron absolute. I do oil analysis with every oil change and wear metals are all low. Perfect balance of flow and filtration for my application. Not at all saying that other "paper" filters are not better but I run thick 20W-50 oil and flow, especially on cold start ups is very important to me. If my filter was damaging my engine due to poor filtration, wouldn't I see high wear metals in my oil analyses?
What are the wear metals per 1,000 miles?
@@TotalSeal Blackstone doesn't show wear metals per 1,000mi so I'm not sure on that.
@@deezullram726 add up all the wear metals (Iron, Copper, Lead, and Aluminum) levels, divide by the mileage on the oil and then multiply by 1,000. Anything less than 15 is good. Over 20 is bad.
@@themotoroilgeek 6 iron, 1 aluminum, 2 copper and 0 lead
2730mi on the oil when changed. If my remedial math is correct, I come up with 3.3. I'd say that's pretty good. That's why I was pretty surprised that the steel mesh did so poorly in your test. Did you use a K&P stainless mesh filter or a cheap knockoff? There are plenty of garbage knockoffs. The K&Ps are very expensive, but very high quality.
@@deezullram726 Those are excellent results. The filter we used, was not a knock off, but it was not the brand you are using.
Great test vut hard to see a engine get destroyed.
Thank you!
What brand of filters were used? I've been using wix xp and would like your opinion on it
The Wix XP is a great filter.
What is the best oil filter in your appen
Well what micron size is the metal powder? And filters have a micron size capability, but what is the efficiency.
Please note, that 25.4 microns is 1/1,000 of an inch. That can easily exceed the film thickness of oil between sliding surfaces under pressure. 30 microns is NOT GOOD ENOUGH!! (RIP flat tappet camshaft lobes/ lifters!) Anything less than 5 microns will be within the Lambda of a good quality oil with good film strength, and protect the engine. If the particulate matter is small enough to stay within the gap between sliding surfaces, there won't be much accelerated wear of those parts.
Great point!
OEMs know how small the filter media needs to be rated so buy a filter that states it meets or exceeds the OEM requirement.
@@briangc1972 Don't forget, OEM's came up with the phrase "planned obsolescence". They want your engine to wear out, just not too quickly, so they don't have to fix it under warranty.
I wouldn't blindly trust them.
@@johnwyman6126 That is true of some products, but not for engine oils and filters.
I have a very powerful magnet that I stick to the side of the oil filter. My theory is, a lot of particles should stick to the inside of the can. Not only assisting in the cleaning process, but extending the time it takes to clog the filter media. Don.t know if it actually helps but it gives me a small measure of piece of mind.
Great tip!
If you cut open the filter you'll see there weren't "a lot of particles should stick to the inside of the can" An engine doesn't generate gritty particles to begin with.
How much filtering occurs when the filter bypass is open on the paper filter vs. screen filters that have no bypass?
Apparently quite a bit as the paper filter removed way more of the iron powder than the wire screen filter.
How fine can you filter in microns before
it starts to remove additives that are in the
oil. What are the micron ratings for aftermmarket add-on bypass filters ?
Add on 2 filter parallel flow oil filter mounts
could be used with one race oriented
high flow filter and and one small micron
fine filter to catch the smallest particles.
The fine filter would work like a higher
rate bypass element. The race filter guarantees adequate oil volume. Cutting open the fine filter and lab testing the
oil could offer good information.
Appreciate a comment.
Down to 4 microns is safe.
Amsoil bypass filters have an absolute efficiency of 98.7% at 2 microns. Amsoil has never said that the bypass filter would remove additives though.
@@darrylsjodin7184
I guess I would have to contact oil companies to find out the size of the
oil additives. Not going to happen!
Might not apply to this ring coating, but oftentimes if cylinder wall or rings are in a big contrast one will wear the other faster than the other.
Honda FRM sleeves for example were amazingly hard, but would kill rings easily from wear.
Great point
Ford has now replaced steel cylinder liners with a ceramic type liner, I’m not confident that will last very long
Ford 5 L Coyote engine
I love engines so much that it's hard for me to even WATCH an engine pushed to destruction.
We understand!
What were the two filters used in this test?
We are not calling out the brands, but they are well know brands.
I believe the paper filter was a wix.
Have you tried putting a magnet on the side of the oil filter to help trap any iron flowing in the oil. Seems it would keep the filter cleaner between oil changes. Not saying to extend the time interval to change the filter. Change the filter. When you normally wood.
There are magnets in both filters.
Highly interesting. I was horrified at how dirty the oil looked after only an hour.
All that abrasive did some work!
Isn't this the Dyno with the blowby meter? I thought you would have shown us that also.
There is always a NAPA Gold oil filter on my engine.
We do have one, but we did not hook it up for this test. In hindsight, we wish we had.
Do you guys have a brand of oil filter you are partial to? I have always gone with wix.
We use Wix as well.
Question was there a bypass in the filter like is an oil pressure it goes up to certain point you know oil pressure and they bypasses the filter I think
The paper filter does have a bypass.
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