I do not have a philosophical answer, I don’t have a logical answer. I simply accept sin was let into this world, and I refuse to have a grip on my neck and anyone telling me what to do. Free will to choose to do bad, or… good, to me is freedom. Christ is King. If my faith is blind so be it. Christ is King.
I lost my girlfriend and best friend in 2019. She was killed by people who didn't care. I used to be so darn angry, at everything even God. But over the years I have learned that it wasn't him, it was the three who got hopped up on methamphetamines and took her from me. God had nothing to do with her death, but he had everything to do with when and how she came into my life and taught me a form.of love I had never known before. She was a light in my darkest hours and I hope to one day see her again in heaven. God has nothing to do with suffering, but we humans do. We cause each other pain...and for what? I don't know. I don't understand nor do I care. I will do my best to be as Jesus taught and try to bring light to a dark world and hopefully, I did it right. I pray for all of humanity. I pray that one day, we all see his light and turn from our darkness. Only through Christ are we saved.
You don't understand your own god and I'm sorry to tell you that but you are in denial. god had 100% everything to do with your situation. He controls everything and created evil and uses evil for his purpose. Why don't you actually read your bible instead of letting others read it for you. Google "god is evil" and you'll be shocked to see I am right. God literally kills people all throughout the book...how is it even possible to not know this but believe in this god?
@@ELDIARIOBOXER how do you explain the order a design of our universe...the unchanging laws of gravity and physics? How do you explain the complexity of life all the way down to its base structure called DNA, the most complex molecule and set of information on earth? If your only argument is "God not real" maybe actually study biology and physics before you make that assumption. Besides, if you don't like my story, so be it, no harm no foul. But please try to bring some actual thoughts and logic if you want to debate. Otherwise, step off
@@VladGenX What order? Look around man it's a chaotic mess and we don't have access to 99% of it. The complexities in life are the results of millions of years of evolution. Pick up a science book, you'll learn the answer to all these questions. Science already found the answer, the real answer not the made up, lazy god did it answer. You guys aren't capable of a debate. You believe in a fairy tale and you have no evidence to debate with. You're the one that needs to prove your god is real, otherwise it's not.
@@VladGenX dude people like u say " I think there's a god out there" "I believe that a being created this universe". But what yall don't understand is that ur just assuming that without research. Just a gut feeling. And if so who created god then? where did god came from? Oh u don't know 😤😤 because there is no god
7 Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? 8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. 9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, 10 even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast. 11 If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me and the light become night around me,” 12 even the darkness will not be dark to you; the night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you. Psalm 139
@@warriorofthelord4142 Yep, more nonsense spouted by a cultist and no evidence for your claims. Curious how your god does nothing for the suffering, dear.
Holy crap I literally commented on that Neil degrasse Tyson interview saying that I would’ve loved to see him talk to cliffe 3 days ago, and now this pulls up out of nowhere
@mdmishfaqahmed2138 If God makes it so that a lighting strikes a pile of wood for it to catch fire, we don't say the wood catched fire because it is a easy to burn material. Just the same as I kick a ball towards you, you don't say that the ball went towards you because a force hit it in your direction.
Well Cliffe did not actually talk to Neil Tyson but it’s still cool. You can watch full video called Christianity 5 hardest questions with cliffe Knechtle God bless :D
Without God there is no objective moral framework by which he can declare those things as being bad. It would only be his opinion that they are bad, and there is no scientific test that could be performed to prove him correct. The Bible explains why we suffer, gives us a reason to persevere through that suffering, and gives us hope for a future without suffering. I choose to serve the Lord.
@antoniussukardi9029 humanitarian interrest set the standart. Thats what defines objective morallity. God does not posses objective morals,he only subjective. As he changes them acording to his emotions. Where as secular humanitarian morals never change
A god that supposedly got bored of being by itself so it created the universe for itself even though it didnt need to. And lot it doesn't care if billions of children have been born with debilitating illnesses. Religions are ridiculous political tools. Nothing more.
People that are longtime Christians have no idea how annoying those stupid organs are and in general how irritating contemporary Christian music is to those that do not go to church they’re stuck in this bubble of their own culture that’s the problem
@@MetalHead-ks9zq pretty sure they were talking about the wildly out of place soundtrack on this video. But to your point, tell me you haven’t been in a lot of churches in a long time without telling me you haven’t been in a lot of churches in a long time. Very few, in fact exceedingly few churches have pipe organs in the US. Also, not every church uses “modern worship” music if they use music at all - there are some that don’t. There are churches where people sing hymns and no instruments are allowed. There are churches that feature drum circles and spontaneous worship. There are even churches that have Christian metal bands lead worship for services.
@@goranmilic442 In Genesis, God's creation WAS perfect. Emphasis on WAS because after Adam and Eve were created, they rebelled against God and sin came into the world, and that's when things got real ugly real fast.
Great video. I Love Cliff. He tends to break the questions down to where many people engage them, and that's at the emotional level. I love William Lane Craig's response to the problem of evil. Logically, it is no problem at all for the Bible, because the skeptic would have to show that it is logically impossible for God to have a morally sufficient reason to allow some evil/suffering. Not only can they not do this, but the Bible gives several morally sufficient reasons God has. But, most people, when they ask this question, think they are asking a logical one, when really they are asking an emotional one. This doesn't make the questions less valid, but it does need to be answered differently. For example, they feel God is unfair for allowing their 2 year old to die of cancer, which is very understandable. And Cliff here tackles the emotional version of this question.
I love Cliff, but I don’t think this is the best answer. When we are children, each and every one of us suffers in ways we’re convinced are utterly tragic. We stub our toes, scrape our knees, bite our tongues, get burned and sustain all manner of injuries and often, we break bones, draw blood and more. There are countless ways we suffer. But every adult knows that despite the child screaming bloody murder and crying profusely, not only will these things quickly heal, but that they are ultimately inconsequential in the grand scheme of things and if anything, they make us stronger, smarter, better. Literally every adult knows this to be true. Is a parent not loving or good if they don’t swoop in to save the child from every cut and scrape? Is it evidence of the parent’s weakness and fecklessness if their child skins their knee? Or is it the exact opposite? We all know that only a bad parent would seek to smooth out the road for their children, we know that a balance must be struck between protection and tough love. We all know this and know it instinctively. So, why hold God to a different standard? Why not scale up that very concept and understand that our catastrophically horrible illnesses and injuries are but scraped knees compared to eternity in paradise? Would dying in tornado be worth it to achieve eternity in heaven? Would childhood cancer be worth it for an eternity in paradise? Are we really so hubristic as to think we can understand the glory of God? The answer to this question seems simple to me and those who pose it are either dishonest or intellectually lacking. Cliff is awesome, but I think there’s a better response.
I dont think we could ever understand Gods ways as a human because we dont know what the big picture is and we can neither see it or understand it. But we can spend our life trying. At least I have and that understanding has changed a lot over the years where I have been able to answer some of the questions. Unfortunately as I have been able to get answers to some of these profound questions I end up with even more questions.
That may be, but is that what you're going to say when tragedy strikes and a loved one asks you "How could God let this happen?!" No. That's where I appreciate Cliff's response in those instances. "I do not know." That's the most intellectually honest (and least hurtful) response, no matter how much we might see the various purposes behind it all. Getting into the deep, philosophical questions of the Bible could be very counter-productive in times of grief and loss, ya know?
Excellent brother Cliffe As if God didn’t also suffer, bleed, and die. For US. FOR US. Suffering is GUARANTEED. If our God can condescend and humble himself to a blood soaked, excruciating death you can best believe we TOO will suffer. God calls and saves all who has called saved and will call and save. Whether we live life without a scratch on our heads, or missing limbs, violence, neglect, or lose our lives, or even the mental screws in our heads come completely loose, GOD IS STILL GOD. GOD IS STILL UNBELIEVABLY GOOD.
Why did he need to suffer for us? In what possible way did God suffering benefit us? We didn't ask him to suffer, and when he did it didn't affect us. It's a load of rubbish. Even if it really is a rule that he needed to suffer (for some unexplained reason), why does this rule exist? Apparently God makes the rules, so why would he make such an absurd rule, that he must suffer in order for him to forgive us? It's utterly stupid👍
@@Micah.Lau.navi. Who made the rule that in order for growth we there must be suffering? It seems like a bizarre requirement to me. Anyway, who made that rule? God? Why did he make it? Why?
@@Micah.Lau.navi.Human nature? Ok, so why did God make us have this nature? And do NOT say he didn't, we chose to be like this. God could have made us not have this nature if he is all powerful.
He does sort of answer the question when it comes to bad things happening to us when it related to other people; but the important distinction that Neil brought up was natural disasters, like Volcanoes, Earthquakes, Tsunamis', Landslides, etc... If they are natural disasters, then no amount of man's free will should play a role in it... as in it is entirely up to God. Why does God allow it? The "I. Do. Not. Know." Response is a pretty understandable and respectable answer from Cliffe, but also one that avoids coming to terms with hard questions needing an answer. God must either not be all good or not all powerful. It is up to you, based on whatever scripture you feel makes the most sense to understand that fact. My fundamental problem with religion is the divinity God carries, as if God possess both all-power AND all-good when in the same texts many things stick out that create problems. God loves us and doesn't want us to be distant from us but gives us original sin(the capacity to commit sin) only to then judge us when he could avoid the headache altogether. Or we don't have free will and God judges us for shit he made us do! With that in mind, is it not absolutely true to suggest God's love comes conditionally, not unconditionally? That I must meet criteria to be forgiven for sin that he allows me to commit? And if I was born into the wrong religion? Any of the 3 aka Christianity, Judaism, or Islam? To be clear: this is the same God in Christianity and Judaism that in the Old Testament specifically tells the Israelites to commit genocide upon the Amalekites? 1 Samuel 15:3. This verse records the words of God through the prophet Samuel to Saul, “Now go and attack the Amalekites and completely destroy everything they have. Do not spare them. Kill men and women, infants and nursing babies, oxen and sheep, camels and donkeys.” It is these examples that lead me to believe that God is not all good. Certainly all-powerful, but not all good.
Hello, I hope you’re doing well, First off I wanted to say I really appreciate the fact you have some well thought out questions about Christ and who he is. I hope I can help in some way. - Everyone has sinned. Nobody a part from Christ was able to fulfill the 613 mosaic laws. If there was anyone who DIDNT deserve death it was Christ. The criteria to not be dead in your sins is perfection. Hence the reason we need the Lords spotless lamb. - The Lord often used Israel in the Old Testament to show his judgement on nations. The nations that Israel often invaded were completely evil. IE: Leviticus 18 described the practices of the Canaanites who performed things like child sacrifice. And what “religion” you are born into has zero to do with what you actually believe. There are countless people in America who are atheist that once called themselves Christian and vice versa. So this doesn’t have to do with your beliefs at all. - Your original question is certainly a tough topic to talk about for sure. Ex. 33:19 the Lord tells Moses “I will have Mercy for whom I have mercy and I will have compassion for whom I have compassion.” Romans 6:23 tells us the wages of sin is death. We see in Genesis 3 after the fall we see the sin instantly began to corrupt the world as we know it. We also see in the book of Revelation that there will be no more tears and suffering after the Lords judgement. Cliffe is absolutely right when he says “ I do not know.” Because the Bible doesn’t necessarily give an exact answer to that question. But that does not make the book any less credible. A history textbook also won’t explain Pythagorean theorem but that does not mean it isn’t true or does not exist. I hope this helps answer your question to some degree. If it doesn’t I apologize and I’ll try and articulate further if you like. I pray the Lord will soften your heart to the gospel. God bless you my friend.
@mackharris5356 I appreciate your response. I believe in the morals and ethics developed because of religion. I do believe that life is intrinsically valuable. I believe that there is objective morality. Part of that objective morality, however, leads me to question things from within the Bible. Again, I appreciate you trying to help me understand further but unfortunately I do not believe those other verses quite answer the pressing questions. The very same objective morality that I was taught from a young age doesn't quite fit with the statements from Samuel to Saul. According to the Bible, this is God's very own words. God himself tells the Israelites to destroy the Amalekites. God specifically directs them to commit Genocide. So there are 2 modes of thought from knowing this: A) God did not say anything to Samuel, and thus the Israelite's actions were completely up to man, not to god. But this opens up the can of worms, that if this particular story was a lie, that a man passed it off as the word of God, then it must still be possible for other verses to also be lies from men, not necessarily the word of God. Or B) God did, in fact, order the Israelites to commit Genocide against the Amalekites. The question is, with free will, why did the Israelites do it? Because they would have believed it was God's word. God's instruction directly led to genocide. How destructive must a war be where no woman, child, or infant can be spared? Where not even the animals such as cattle are kept for food and resources and are also destroyed? Is it not God's own morality that he impressed upon us as people to know objective wrongs? With that, why would he advocate for such a terrible crime? It is also important to note that it does not matter how evil the Amalekites were... how distant from God they were... no evil act is worthy of an evil act in response, and we know this. God had to know that this was an objectively wrong thing to ask the Israelites to do. Once again, however, the "I Do Not Know" Response is fair, I understand it is difficult to answer and the Bible does not provide a direct answer... this is why it is a question, and one that MUST be answered to further understand the nature of god and his will. Saying I don't Know doesn't suddenly remove the question. The question persists. Why does God allow it. There is no dilly-dallying around the problem. So again, I ask you to ask yourself, can god be all-good and all-powerful and still be able to order the genocide of the Amalekites? My response, which is an actual answer, rather than a tip-toe around one, is that no. God cannot be all good or all powerful at the same time. With that in mind, that does not necessarily mean god does not love us, or want to help us, being not all-good does not equate god to being all-bad. God is just not all-good. I think it would be fair to say god wanted to teach us these lessons, but in order to do so he had to bend his own morals to teach us them. I mean, he allowed his own son to die for our sins... he must be willing to do bad things in some ways? That last bit about the Pythagorean Theorem is a bit strange as well. The Pythagorean Theorem is a description to understand the fundamental law of shape. Regardless of historical fact or not Pythagorean Theorem would be true... if you got rid of all math and science, as well as all religions and then gave it a few thousand years, the religions would either not return at all, or if they did they would be completely different because they lack the history to go off of. Whereas all math and science would come back with the exact same conclusions. Math and science are objective like many morals. And again, just ask the question as well: God creates us with free will, AND original sin... Only to judge us for sins that he allows us to do. He could absolve us for our sins, or not allow us to commit sin, but instead he does, only to punish us later. There is a serious issue here. Why does he put himself through all this trouble to create us to commit sin he isn't okay with? From the outside looking in, as a non-religious person, it comes off as a VERY conditional love.
If you read the book of job , you’ll understand many things . Jesus is coming soon for those of us who love him and believe in him , If you don’t believe that HE paid your sin debt on the cross , then you’ll be separated from him for eternity , then Bible clearly says “ he is the way , the truth and the life
If God is the supreme, all powerful being, then He is good. Evil is a corruption or privation of good. If God is evil, it means He's not perfect and has been corrupted from the original good. Therefore He's not God. God is necessarily and logically good.
Theodicy is a branch of philosophy dealing with the issue of evil in light of the existence of God. If God is just and holy and good, then how do evil and misery exist? That’s the question theodicy wrestles with. History’s most famous statement of the “problem of evil” comes from the ancient Greek philosopher Epicurus: Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? Of course, most people have no experience with philosophers. They do, however, watch movies, and a slightly modified version of this idea came from the character of Lex Luthor in a recent action film: “If God is all powerful, he cannot be all good. And if he’s all good, then he cannot be all powerful.” - Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice The biggest hurdle in discussing theodicy is a tendency to waffle on the definitions of certain words. Or to color certain words with a meaning that is not part of the argument. So, in order to really understand the concept of theodicy, one has to carefully define his terms and then stick to those definitions. What evil is, is “not” The primary issue with the “Problem of Evil” is defining what evil actually is. Evil is typically seen as a force opposed to good, forming a yin and yang or two poles of a magnet. Defining evil in this way leads to a logical problem for the theist: why would God create evil? God created gravity, light, magnetism, and so forth: why would He also create evil? The most logical answer is simply that God didn’t create evil. Because evil, in and of itself, does not actually exist, except as the absence of goodness. Similarly, God created light, but did He also “create” darkness? No, because darkness in and of itself does not exist. Darkness is only a term we use to refer to a relative lack of light. It’s entirely defined in terms of deprivation: the absence of something else. The same is true of physical heat. Heat is a term used to describe the motion of atoms and molecules. When an object is cold, it simply has less molecular movement, relatively speaking. At absolute zero all molecular movement would completely stop, theoretically. You cannot get any “colder” than that, because there is no way to add more coldness. You can only remove heat, and when all the heat is gone, that’s as far as you can go. The same basic point applies to many descriptive words. Terms such as short or thin are all references to the relative lack of something else. There is no such thing as “shortness,” and one cannot “add” shortness. There are only varying measurements of length. Printer paper is not “thin” because it has more “thinness” added to it than cardboard. We use the term thin so we don’t have to say “less thick.” An example from mathematics is the constant i, or the square root of negative one (√(-1)). In reality, negative numbers cannot have a “square root,” but there are places in advanced equations where it’s a handy shortcut. The term i has meaning, at least in theory, even though we know it’s not a literal description of some tangible thing. Another mathematical example is the “number” 0. The term zero literally refers to that which does not exist. It is a reference to nothing, to the absence of something. This is why adding or subtracting 0 results in no change, multiplying 0 is still “nothing,” and dividing by 0 is a logical contradiction. Is zero “real”? In the sense that it’s a term we can understand and that has use, yes. But, of course, 0 does not exist in any tangible sense. It’s literally defined as the absence of something (everything) else. Putting all of these thoughts together, then, the same can be said of evil. The term has meaning and use, but we don’t have to assume it’s some actual, tangible, created thing. Evil is a relative term used to mean anything that deviates from the will or moral perfection of God. Evil is the lack of goodness. All by itself, this reasoning goes a long way toward forming a proper theodicy. If evil is not some “thing” God created or some force outside of God that He cannot control, then the meaning of these questions becomes very different. Any premise that requires God to have created, formed, or generated evil is immediately invalidated. All that is required, then, is for God to have “allowed” it. Our will versus God’s will The debate of how we define evil doesn’t stop there, however. For many critics, the objection to God being “all good” inherently means “never allowing any evil.” The first problem with this view of God’s goodness is logical. The second is personal. Logically, if God is perfect, then anything different from Him, in any way, is no longer perfect. You cannot change absolute, complete perfection and still be absolutely and completely perfect. This means that anything God creates is, by definition, different from Him and must be less than perfect. Considering evil as a deviation from God’s goodness, this leads to two possibilities, in order for God to completely and totally avoid evil of any kind. First, God could simply not create anything at all. Second, God could create but allow nothing in His creation the capacity for moral free will. In other words, allow no deviation leading to “evil.” But this makes a mockery of every other emotion, ideal, and benefit that critics of God want to uphold. In short, a universe logically incapable of evil is also one logically incapable of love, nobility, sacrifice or success. A being unable to partake in evil is also incapable of exhibiting mercy, compassion, or love. It’s not hard to see how, if God had created things with this limitation, creation would seem like a waste of time. God desires love and glory-and our approval of that desire is irrelevant to its truth-but there can be no love given by robotic, choice-less creations. So, for God to preclude even the possibility of evil, He must either not create or create something utterly pointless. Logically, it stands to reason that God allows the potential for evil because such freedom is intrinsically the same that allows the potential for nobility and virtue. Without that potential no love or other “good” things can actually occur. This leads to the “personal” problem with demanding that God disallow evil. Once a person accepts the idea that evil has to be possible in order for us to have a meaningful free will, the next step is often to criticize God for allowing “too much” evil or the “wrong kinds” of evil. Here, again, definitions and personal preferences are key. Critics of God often make an assumption at this stage. They make statements such as “a good God might allow some evil, but He would never allow X.” Once again, the logic leading to this point shows that God does not have to create evil for it to exist. This question also assumes, irrationally, that there cannot be things worse than X. Logically, it’s possible there could be evils even worse than X that God has prevented, and, because He has prevented them, we are unaware they are even possible. To continue to criticize God on account of there being “too much” evil is to waffle between logic and emotion. We may not like the idea that God allows certain kinds of evil. And, logically, there is nothing invalid about a person choosing to say, “I reject obedience to God because I don’t agree with His morality.” But theodicy is not a question of making God agree with our whims. What we cannot say, logically, is that, if God does not act according to our moral preferences, then He cannot exist in moral perfection. This makes the critic the ultimate standard of morality! To put that another way, claiming God cannot exist or cannot be perfectly moral unless He agrees with my moral preferences is to say this: “I am morally perfect, so if God and I differ on some moral issue, the only possible reason is that God is flawed, and I am not.” Once again, a person is not logically prevented from taking this approach. But just because it’s a possible viewpoint does not make it a reasonable one. Does this mean there could never be a circumstance where God’s supposed morality conflicts with what we see in our experience? Not at all. The problem-for the critic-is that many of the rules he claims God fails to live up to are simply fictional. God never promises to make everyone’s life easier or better, nor does He promise to alter cause and effect simply at our whims. There is an eternal context and a spiritual condition to what God tells us about suffering and evil in this world. This is a key part of any reasonable theodicy.
So why allow evil? Logic says that God does not have to create evil in order for there to be evil. Logic says that God does not have to conform to our moral preferences in order to be perfectly good. So, then, how can a person rationalize the existence of evil in a way that’s relevant to our own experience? The first point that must be realized is that God is consistent in His “allowance” of our free will and the natural function of His creation. As it turns out, it’s the fact that God is consistent in His moral behaviors that greatly aggravates the skeptic. This is because God’s consistency runs counter to our human preferences: we’d rather God bend or break the rules to suit our own selfish preferences. For example, God is consistent in allowing human beings a broad use of free will. This includes allowing people the freedom to reject His will and spurn His commands. This can result in consequences for those who choose to disobey. At the same time, much of the suffering of man on earth is due to the decisions of other people. There, again, God is being consistent in allowing humanity the freedom to act. This is really nothing more than a re-phrasing of the earlier argument about allowing the potential for evil, because, without it, there is no potential for good. The same natural laws that allow us to build skyscrapers and develop medicines can be abused to make bombs and illicit drugs. They are the same laws that produce earthquakes and hurricanes. Too often, we make choices knowing the risks involved or with a deliberate intent to misuse creation and then blame God when those potential problems materialize. The second point to make is that God is not motionless, silent, and inactive in the face of evil. Here, again, is a point where the critic becomes inconsistent. The same voices who attempt to say, “God is not doing enough to stop evil” are almost always the same ones who object when God does anything to stop evil. The incidents most often pointed to by critics of the Bible as evidence of God’s supposed immorality (such as the destruction of Sodom) were times when God explicitly stated that His actions were a response to malevolence. They were His means of stopping and preventing more evil. The same critic who cries, “God does nothing about evil,” is all too often the same person calling God immoral for His actions in the flood. Or against the Amalekites. Or at Jericho. God has already taken steps to neutralize and counter evil. Saying He does “nothing” is simply untrue. Complaining that He does “too much” to stop evil is all well and good, but that makes theodicy irrelevant and the problem of evil moot. The third point is that we have a limited perspective. This is not a very persuasive argument, especially for someone hostile to the idea of God. But, logically, it has to be said that the God under examination is posited to be omniscient, omnipotent, eternal, and omnipresent. We, of course, are not. We often hear employers, military personnel, parents, doctors, and others reminding us that there are things happening “behind the scenes” that we simply cannot understand. Our inability to understand certain decisions is not hard evidence that those decisions are wrong. It means nothing more than that we have incomplete understanding. Finally, one has to take all criticisms of evil in the entire context of Christian teaching. If this life were all there is, then the problem of evil would be a much bigger problem. However, according to the Bible, this is not the only life we are going to live. A person can reject that belief, but he cannot criticize the God of the Bible and His morality as if the afterlife were not an intrinsic part of Christian moral understanding. Christians believe that all wrongs-every single one-will be reckoned with, someday. They believe that God is acting to restrain evil now, just as He has in the past. The Bible makes it clear that the struggles we experience now are not the purpose for which we exist, nor do they define our value. Instead, there is a point to the suffering and a plan that involves making all wrongs right. Back to the beginning Looking at these ideas, then, we can see that Epicurus’ version of the problem of evil suffers from a fatal flaw. This can be summed up in one simple statement: the “God” Epicurus criticizes is not the God of the Bible. In other words, Epicurus’ criticism only works against the deities of Greek polytheism and in the context of a polytheistic view of reality. The Christian can respond to Epicurus as follows: Is God willing to prevent evil, but unable to? Then he is not omnipotent. God is willing to limit evil and has acted to do just that. So, He is still omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. God is able, but not willing, to abolish our free will. So, He is still omnibenevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? God has acted to defeat evil. Evil comes simply when we fall short of His will. Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? God is not willing to prevent our free will. Your disapproval does not make Him any less God. And, to the more pop-culture-friendly Lex Luthor, Christianity can respond as follows: “If God is all powerful, he cannot be all good. And if he’s all good, then he cannot be all powerful.” God can be all-powerful and choose not to act according to your preferences. When you say “all good,” what you really mean is “doing things my way”; and when you say, “all powerful,” what you really mean is “capable of making us simultaneously free and robotic,” which is gibberish. An all-powerful, all-good God can allow evil in order to obtain the greater, eternal good. Human beings will always struggle with the problem of evil. Theodicy is not an attempt to make God appear as palatable as possible. In fact, the opposite is true. A truly rational theodicy has to begin with the admission that our dislike of something does not make it false. The question is not whether God is compatible with our personal preferences. The problem of evil is simply the debate over whether or not God is logically possible. Theodicy, taking all logic and evidence together, clearly says He is-whether we like Him or not.
Thanks for the effort you put into commenting this. I can now conclude that the existence of a God that is all-good (good not according to the limited perspective of man, but according to the unlimited perspective of God) and all-powerful is not logically impossible. Much appreciated.
my teacher once said the people born with deformities and people who are disabled are like this because god knew that they were strong enough to go through it.
God very rarely targets individuals to put curses on them or punish them. So a person born with a deformity is most likely a natural occurrence and has nothing to do with God. No one is strong enough to handle suffering
As a calvinistic determinist, he's right about the part about dusting myself off and saying "wow I'm glad that's over!". I've caught myself saying that so many times it's hilarious 😂 He gets Calvinism wrong as most people do, as reformed theology does not teach that we have no responsibility to struggle and fight the good fight, resist the devil, strive to do good and beseech the LORD to grant His holy favor, and follow HIM wherever HE might lead us 🙏🏻 A lot of people think Calvinists don't evangelize or pray for the LORD to lead or anything else of the sort, but those points are you from what's commonly known as Hyper-calvinism, which is NOT Calvinism. That gross over exaggerated take on reformed theology teaching could be what's described in the new testament as a doctrine of demons.
I put my bible on my table(under the table), then when i sat down i accidentally put foot on top of the bible very quick and after i realised i felt so guilty and remorse im so sorry God It was a total mistake i have done the worst thing i have ever done to u pls forgive me lord i will do anything im so so so so sorry😞 and for the others out there forgive them lord for they what know for what they do amen❤
Is the CUP half-empty or is the CUP half-full ?... Either way, the CUP is there!... or there could be Nothing. John 10:10 NIV... Jesus said, "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full." Life is hard, but God is good. All the time!
The whole point is to help us improve, get stronger, and become more like Jesus. You can't get stronger without resistance. The world is a temporary place we've come to in order to learn and grow, never meant to be a paradise where everyone is comfortable forever and ever. For god to remove trials and pain is like asking the teacher to stop giving us work to do and just give us the diploma.
@@Void100-v3x God did not want Humans to sin. They were given free will, and with that God allowed sin as a part of that. Imagine a parent and a child. The parent does not want the child to get shocked, but that's what happens when you stick a fork into an outlet. Now imagine that the parent teaches the child about dangers and risks, and consequences and stuff like that. That is the Bible, the child can choose whether or not to listen to those warnings and know the consequences and still hurt themselves by sticking a fork in an outlet. Does the parent want that? Of course not. Free will is a wonderful thing, you have the ability to ask questions like this, and I have the ability to respond. If we didn't have free will we would be robots. No more meaningful debates about why you should listen to God, and more believers, but is that really loving?
"Tell me you've never read the bible without telling me that you've never read the bible". Tyson is not qualified to speak on these subjects, and he has the biggest ego of almost any pop-scientist Not easy to do.
I don’t always love Cliff but this is a good point. Even if we had the reasoning behind every single evil God allows, people still wouldn’t be satisfied by it
Your sin allows satan to perform evil Before I was a Christian, I was under the curse of the law Aged 40 , I converted from agnostic to Christian . Now I am blessed. Jesus Christ is Lord, trust in His sacrifice, ask for His mercy to forgive you. Be blessed ❤️✝️🙏
“Prepare the child for the road, not the road for the child” We are children of god, and this earthly experience is our crash course, God gives us these trials to test our faith, that by showing humility, and integrity in temptation, he has the all clear to reward us as his heirs to his throne. This is why we can make all the bad choices we want, because the large scale consequences of sin are being exempt from the Kingdom of God in Eternal Glory
he skirts around answering the question with his example of Job, he says "god is fair, life is unfair, do not mix up the two". this implies that god created an unfair life. you could say that its just the result of the original sin, but that just pushes the problem back to that point. then you can ask, "why did god make the punishment so severe?"
Never understood why some believers feel they have to argue for God. Just casting pearls before swine. God is quite capable of arguing for Himself. He knows when a heart is ready for the truth. Look at apostle Paul.
@@raphaelfeneje486 Free will does not explain the death and suffering that is happening without humen cause. To take Tyson`s example of hurricanes, Vulcanos and diseases.
@@enceladus4161 Free will does explain it. Do you know what we mean by free will?? The Christian position is that human (Adam) violated God's instruction by exercising his free will, by so doing, sin came into the world and corrupted everything good. That's it! Need I forget, pain and suffering on the other hand isn't inherently evil, one would have to prove that it's possible to live in a world devoid of that because that has helped shaped us to be better people
@@raphaelfeneje486 Firstly I think i have to make clear, that i do not belive in the creation of the earth as shown in the Bible, nor do I belive in the story of Adam and Eve. Secondly it is the question in what way a diseas killing a new born baby is helping that baby. Because it does not, it takes away it`s chance of evolving into what could have been a wonderful human being. This baby did not do anything wrong, it did not even had the chance to sin, but still it`s life was violently taken from it. I do understand that it`s soul continues living in heaven, still it seems cruel and unnecessary.
@@enceladus4161 "I do not believe in the creation of the earth." I wasn't appealing to what you believe, I was giving the theist answer to the problem. Since you disagree with the position, offer a better explanation. You're an atheist, right?? So why is there pains and suffering. The argument is both an emotional and a logical one. On Atheism, there's no such thing as cruel, evil, etc. So they really can't offer much rather than appeal to emotions. That's why the theist position is better. That's my point.
God allows suffering because it can be a tool for personal growth, character development, and a way to deepen one's relationship with God, even though it is not inherently good; often linked to the idea that humans have free will and the consequences of sin can lead to suffering in the world, but God is still present to provide comfort and support during difficult times. 🙏🏾❤️✝️
This explains suffering caused by other humans but he didn't answer the cause of suffering by natural deseases which was the initial question stated at the beginning of the video
that is true. but the best explanation for the fact that there are natural disasters and diseases in our world is due to the fact that after we've decided to use our free will, and turned away from God, He respected our decision to go against Him, so He stepped away. when God steps away from His creation, imperfect elements enter the world, such as chaos, which have nothing to do with Him. there are clear consequences to our actions within this world, and if we are to agree that there is a God, then this world was made FOR us, correct? so therefore, by rejecting Him, who wanted the best for us, who made this entire universe for us, it is not a stretch to say that our spiritual split with Him was the very thing which caused the world around us to invite chaos in it.
@@Geraedbow He didn't, I know. It's just the way the video was put together that makes it confusing because the statements Cliffe gives are not answering the question
Obviously I'm a couple weeks late to this, but if anybody wants the answer to Neil deGrasse Tyson's question, here it is: sin was introduced with Adam. With sin, corruption. The natural order of the world was corrupted. That's the origin of natural disasters. That doesn't explain why God allows them to happen or why God allowed the corruption to begin with. What does is Romans 9. This chapter describes God's sovereignty in relation to salvation. Now, here's the thing, we know that God must be in control over his creation. This means that we can't avoid the fact that he allows these to happen. The comparison that he makes between humans can also be applied to disasters: what if to make his glory known he allowed a disaster to happen and he allowed somebody to die so that the person he didn't allow to die would see his grace and mercy all the more? That's the question Paul asks by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The good news is that this life isn't all there is. Our sin earns us death day one of our lives. No sin can take away our eternity though. We will either live eternally in heaven or hell. No one earns heaven but Christ. He has freely offered salvation to those who would believe. Trust him. He is sovereign. He is in control of our eternity. He has paid for our sins. Trust him and follow him and know that whatever suffering happens on this world is meant to bring more people to him. That's why Paul says that the sufferings of this world aren't even worth comparing to the glory that we'll see in heaven.
Part of what’s confusing is that why would the sins of one affect the innocent so harshly? Why should be judged on our thoughts as well? Actions have consequences but thoughts are fleeting holding no weight. How has the innocent sinned? A child gets hurt because of a bad person, and yes that person is punished, but what of the child? God limiting his power seems a bit callous. For those who do not know god or have no desire to sin, what of them?
@@okk2005 Pray for my family to change their heart, mind and to open their heart, mind, ears, eyes, for following the commandments of Lord Jesus Christ.
@@Male045_1 Thanks for telling me, I truly pray for your family and that the Lord will open their hearts. I will pray privately to god for you and your family. He loves you all very much. ✝️♥️
He did, it's because God stepped out from creation because human rebellion, and then chaos takes his place, natural laws happends. God created the universe in a couples of days, using his law he's what keeps the creation perfect.
@@cruzwaldfelt7357 I see. But the natural laws are his creation, is it not? God stepped out because he respect human's free will, he wants us to face our own consequences of our actions. Therefore, chaos follows. We didn't do anything to create natural disasters. At least that's what I understand from his speech. If natural disasters happen without God's maintainance, then the system he created is perhaps flawed or this is a punishment from God.
If there is no one who seeks God, how can someone be able to seek Him with all his/her heart? Aren't we created beings? If we are created beings and are limited, isn't our "will" also limited? Isn't God only has the Absolute Free Will? The Bible clearly says we were in bondage to sin. If we were in bondage to sin, how can we "freely" choose God in that state? In that sate, what kind of "free will" did we have? TLDR, God, by His abundant grace and mercy, enabled us to choose Him(the thing that we can never ever will on our own because we were dead in sin).
Neil is not a cwlwbrity scientist, he is a real scientist. Cliffe is a celebrity, he has no phd,no education of value and has zero works of wonders. Where as Neil tyfon posseses all those
@@alexkiaii6548have you heard him talk about covid? He was like, trust the experts, trust Fauci and the cdc and the government and big pharma😂 A real scientist. Yeah
@victorvolobuev507 did you hear cliffe about the bible ? All he had was trust me bro semantiks. But never proof or any workable peistomology with no fallacies. Il take Niels making a basic mistake over cliffes narcissistic lies
@@alexkiaii6548 mistake? People were ready to twke away rights of others based on that misinformation and mistake. People lost jobs, got fired, got threats to suspend practice licenses, made to sit at home, lose their businesses, threatened to refuse healthcare. Smart move supporting “that mistake” People got censored for speaking out about it too.
Suffering is allowed because God can bring great good out of it. For example, many of the Saints accepted great sufferings so they could help save souls. And you all know all the many examples even in movies where someone was a disaster, and then a great suffering occurred, and they became wiser and kinder
Well, that was a great answer for human action and free will, it didn’t answer the question of natural disaster, which was what Tyson was asking about.
He doesn’t really answer he question. Tyson was talking about hurricanes, volcanoes, infections that kill children. These are not evils caused by free will, God crated these catastrophes that land on us humans no matter our actions or free will
They say "evil was introduced by adam and Eve. Such as deseases,cancer,parasites. Yet dinosaurus have been found with cancer. Theisms truly defines ignorance and a closed heart.
Pandora’s box was opened, and it affected the world. Childbearing became a labor of love and farming now includes weeding, rock removing. And that was only when Adam and Eve sinned, man hasn’t stopped piling up his rebellion against God though
The Earth also has free will. It was not designed to contain disasters. The disasters are a result of sin. When humans sinned they are choosing to be separate from God. People think that Hell is a bad place because it is where God punishes you. That is not the case. Hell exists because it is separate from God. Anyone who chooses to live their lives separate from God will have their wish granted. Those who yearn to be with God will be in Heaven, not because we earn it, but because Jesus died for our sins as an ultimate sacrifice to give us a way back to God. The world we live in today has already been corrupted by sin. Humans’ free willed sins caused us to be separate from God. That includes the Earth. So natural disasters, infections, diseases, mutations, and death are examples of life without God.
Wow. As a catholic that was super deep. Lord Jesus have mercy o. Our souls by the blood of your cross. Mother Mary and the saints pray for us to be received into the kingdom of heaven at the hour of our death
@ God created Mary Mary accepted to be the mother of God’s Son Without Mary you’d be damned The saints have be God’s vehicle by the power of the Holy Spirit through their love of Jesus to spread and die for the gospel for 2000 years
@@christopherton It is not both. That is unbiblical. Communicating with dead people is an abomination and forbidden. Its even addressed several times in the bible. 20:6,27; 1 Samuel 28:5-18; Isaiah 8:19-20d several times in the Bible.
Isn't he the globe man ? Isn't he the man who is able to provide the best explanation for the gravitational pull ? He's now annoyed and fearful that "oh Can't God handle all this?" 😂
Has no one noticed, that he claimed that allmighty god is limited? And he covers it up by claim, that he chose to put limits ontonhimself. The contradiction still shines there as naked butt in the bush.
I wish that people would stop using free will to explain the pain and suffering caused by natural disasters and other things outside of human free will and control. Even if you accept the free will argument, it only explains the suffering and pain caused by human actions. Tyson was very specific in mentioning these outside of human control in his argument.
Sin is in our blood and why it creates congenital birth defects in some but not others is way above my understanding. Neil raises legitimate questions but his unbelief only invalidates God to him and people who think like him. Since science is Neil's god, maybe he should do a study on ancestral DNA and see if that explains congenital birth defects and I would love to see Neil prove God does not exist since he's so much more intelligent than most everyone else.
@@kelvinphillips3528 I don't think it's about proving that God does not exist. Actually, I don't believe that you can prove or disprove the existence of God It's about trying to reconcile those bad things in nature, beyond human will or control, with an all-powerful and all -good God. While natural suffering doesn't disprove God's existence, it does question God's nature and whether or not there is an all-powerful, all-good anthropomorphic God as traditionally understood in religions such as Christianity And you can claim that sin somehow creates congenital birth defects all you want, but can you demonstrate a link between sin and such defects? Plus you are nowhere near explaining natural disasters and such. And things like natural distastes,, genetic mutations, diseases and such were in the world long before there were humans, so blaming sin really does not work There has to be some bigger picture, if we are going to even begin to reconcile these things with an all-powerful and all-good God.
The same people who tell us the earth is becoming overpopulated are the same people who tell us that if God exists them he should prevent bad things from happening to us.
We are still in this world called Earth. It's a beautiful world but not a perfect one. Along with the good are the bad ones in this place. Sickness, disasters, calamities, corruption, greed, etc. At times, evil triumphs over good. We are all affected (good and bad people), not one is exempted because we are in this imperfect world. If ungodly people get cancer, so are the godly ones. Until Jesus, our hope, comes back, we are all going to go through what awaits us in this world. The only difference we have from the ungodly is the HOPE we have in Jesus. We know that when we pass thru this temporary place of dwelling, we will be with Him in a perfect place forever.
When this man first became prominent, I had so much respect for him, and I still admire his intellect. HOWEVER, it amazes me that someone so smart will not read the Bible for himself. I saw him in another video and was surprised by his commentary on God, and I admit that changed my mind about him a little. Unfortunately, many highly intelligent people are ‘too intelligent’ to believe in God, but God is all powerful, and God is all good, however mankind is not. We kill each other, we kill babies in the womb, we abuse children, we pollute the air and food, and use substances that create many birth defects, all while snubbing our noses at God, trying to prove that we don’t need him. The Earth is fallen and still God‘s mercy is the reason we’re not all consumed. Those of us who know and believe God, have hope that one day this earth will pass, and a new heaven and earth with no hurricanes, no storms, and no more death is being prepared for those who believe and accept Jesus Christ the son of God as savior.
I’ve seen this clip before and every time I see it I always wonder how could someone that is allegedly so smart fail to grasp something so simple and even something that’s addressed in scripture.
I didn't feel WORTHY for years!. It's never too late. I'm thankful for God's grace and the ability to finally forgive myself. A weight has been lifted! JESUS CHRIST IS MY SAVIOR ❤ Forgive your enemy so that you shall also be forgiven. Lets help our Brothers & Sisters SO they KNOW the TRUTH about everlasting life! ✝️ Praise to our Father.
The fault of suffering by any cause whether it be natural disaster, disease, etc... Is squarely placed on the shoulders of sinners when we decided to determine for ourselves what is good and evil in the garden of Eden. We decided to go against God’s Will and now we are in a fallen state subject to death and suffering. Praise God for the hope, grace, and mercy he gives us in Jesus Christ.
How can natural causes of suffering be the fault of sinners when these things existed in the world long before there were any humans in the world, sinners or not.
@ sin was not brought into the world until satan deceived us into bringing it ourselves. Before that (in the garden of eden) we were in a perfect state. Since we decided to determine for ourselves what is good and evil we have been cast into a fallen state in the world where we are subject to the tragedies and malevolence of the existence we brought on ourselves by turning from God. “And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” Genesis 2:16-17 NIV
Tyson wants a God Who gives us a perfect world. The Bible says God will take our light afflictions and they will be turned to glory. Why He allows things is for Him to know because He is outside of time and sees the beginning from the end. We grieve but not as those without hope. Cliffe is right and especially how we react to others in the midst of their pain. We do better to offer to be there for them. Amen
So god allows people to suffer so he can take those afflictions and be turned to glory. So this god suffers from hero syndrome where he puts us in a dangerous position for the sake of saving the day.
@ do you not get stronger from what doesn’t kill you? The Bible tells you about trials and tribulations. Do your parents let you stumble and fall? Oh, what bad parents…..atheists and skeptics bend this way and that so they caj deny the Truth. He is a perfectly good God. Follow the Son into eternity or accept the consequences.
@@michaelbrickley2443 I know Christians tend to stumble with physics and biology, so I'll help you out. A child getting hit from a bus isn't generally something they survive, that's why I specifically chose that example. Even if they do, there's a difference between letting a kid stumble and fall and allowing something that could result in becoming paralyzed or an amputation.
The question is not about suffering. It's about harm and death thats caused outside of our control. We cannot blame ourselves nor Adam and Eve for bringing natural disasters and our own bodies developing diseases simply because it can. Adam and Eve brought death, not suffering.
I’m a Christian man I have been through a lot of things in my life. I have had birth defects when I was born and I should’ve died. I had Grandmall seizures was bullied and was almost put into a coma because of my seizures. I had a brain surgery that I woke up paralyzed from. I forgot my name, my mothers name, all my family relatives and the alphabet. I had to learn how to walk, read and write all over again and at the end of the day not once did I ever blame God for those things. My blame is on Adam and Eve first people to sin which then allowed sin to the world. The Bible is very clear. God is all good , before the fall of man, there was no sin, and there was no suffering and no children die from car accidents no random volcanoes, irrupt it to kill people or hurricanes or earthquakes, but because of sin, all those things were then allowed to come into this world I think it’s wrong for any Christian to sit here and claim to not have the answers to these hard questions when the Scriptures clearly tell you that it is because of sin that bad things happen it is because of the fall of man, and we live in a fallen world that we have suffering and unkindness and hatred but the best part of all of this is that Christ, then willingly came and died for are sin not to relieve us from suffering here on this imperfect earth, but so that we could live with him forever in paradise it’s very simple and I think we just take too much into it and don’t just listen to what I have to say it is word.
NGT is the perfect example of what happens when we rely on our own self righteousness and not on the light of our Lord Jesus Christ. Without Him we are nothing.
When man fell the entire order of the world fell too With the introduction of sin , not that hard to understand But one should also accept that God can take anyone of us out of this world at any time for a purpose
NDT should imagine those people in the Bible who felt these plagues, natural disasters yet they still believed in God and these even strengthened their faith.
More good can be brought about from the destruction of evil than if it never existed in the first place. This does not mean we know why God chose to do it. Maybe it was so we would have to make a choice, maybe it's a test of our faith. We can never understand the mind of God, but I trust Him. Let His Will be done.
1.All things come together for the good of those who love God and who are called according to His purpose. 2. God has control over everything. 3. God will allow the devil all the room necesary for your life to come to the reality that Jesus is Lord and to bring you to a better place. 4. God wants you to talk to Him. 5. People who die "early" God has full knowledge of every action you take before He created you in your mothers womb, death isnt bad, death without God is. Death without God is Hell. To die on the Earth with God is to live forever with Him. The real question is will you die not knowing God?
The Bible is very clear that God is not only all powerful, but that he perdonally brings trials and hardships upon us. The Bible is also clear that each and every trial is there for the good of those who love Him. God's purposes are infinitely higher than ours; who wre we to question them? The book of Job outlines this concept as a whole: that God is indeed in control of the hardships we face, but he inacts them with purpose, and we are nobody to question Him.
I love cliffs answer but he doesn't really answer neils question, the question wasn't "why do bad things happen to good people?" the question was "Why does God allow natural disasters to happen to innocent people?" I think a good way to answer this question is by acknowledging that Gods good is not our good. That what he sees is not what we see, and that what he knows is not what we know.
Free will doesn't explain why a good god would let good people suffer, they don't deserve to- that's what Hell is for, only for the bad to suffer. So God is punishing the good people in life and threatening the possibility of more punishment in the afterlife. Endless rounds of suffering means God isn't good, or that he's a bad teacher. I like 4:10 "when God steps back" and he literally takes a step back, placing himself in the position of God, acting out God's part in his visual analogy, that's blasphemy.
Being good doesnt mean free from suffers, Even the perfect Human who doesnt commit a sin once in his lifeitime suffers. Heres is how the world works. One day, you decided to run over a person and if that person is a faithful follower, then he will have reserved place in heaven.. but if he isnt a fiathful follower or isnt a follower, then that person unfortunately will have to go to hell. Its really simple. One person is prepared and the other isnt. That is why God tells us to be prepared for anything can happen to us. We dont not control when we die or live, but we can lead our soul to Heaven (Sorry for Bad English)
We do not know why we were born in the first place, we do not know why we have to suffer in this world, we do not know which religion is true or false. It all comes down to faith. If Quran tells the thruth then i go to hell. If the bible tells the thruth then i go to heaven, etc.
@Qeris1 Right. I can't argue with that and I don't really need to add anything, everybody that doesn't believe in your god is wrong and you can do whatever you want to them. I think religion may have started with "my dad could beat up your dad", don't make me get my dad, my dad's dad will bring fire and plagues, my dad's brother will block out the sun and your crops will fail if you don't bow down (said some astrologer or astronomer) and it worked. It's a series of tall tales and a few provable things that give authority to the person making unprovable statements. If the book says proper hygiene is good and that's true to some unwashed person, then you can convince them what to eat, think, say and how much of their crops to give away.
If this life is all there is, I guess Neil has a point. But if this life is temporal and the hereafter is the real eternal life then you can see how suffering here is mitigated. Look at the Beatitudes. Blessed are the poor,meek, those who suffer. You are a soul, you have a body.
The wages of sin is death. Spiritual and physical . The only thing equal to Gods love is his wrath. Nobody has seen Gods wrath yet . Everything we see that is evil or bad and I mean anything comes from the lawless one the ruler of this world the devil. Lord help us all. If you want Gods help then turn to him in all that you do🙏🏼✌🏼
I don't free will is the answer to the problem of evil. God could have still prevented us from committing evil without inhibiting our free will. If we assume we currently have free will and that god exists, there are things that I cannot physically or biologically do. Not being able to do these things doesnt prevent our free will, so not being able to do evil also shouldn't. And this doesn't explain natural disasters or diseases. I with NDT on this one.
This world is fallen and ruled by Satan, What to expect? A perfect life for a world that loves to sin? For the answer of your question, evil comes from sin. Sin is "an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.". This comes from a choice. Free will is being able to choose what you want to do. Yeah, you could argue 'why did he let sin into the world in the first place?'. Because Adam and Eve had a choice, eat the fruit or not, sin comes as a byproduct of freewill. You could stick a fork in an outlet, but don't expect to not have consequences. This world isn't perfect, it was corrupted as soon as Adam and Eve defied God. His perfect world is in heaven, this world is evil by nature, why should we expect otherwise?
I do not have a philosophical answer, I don’t have a logical answer. I simply accept sin was let into this world, and I refuse to have a grip on my neck and anyone telling me what to do. Free will to choose to do bad, or… good, to me is freedom. Christ is King. If my faith is blind so be it. Christ is King.
Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.
Amen!
Amen🙏🏼
blind faith isn't a good look be grounded in the historical man named Jesus Christ.
curious that it was your god that allowed sin into the world, since it either couldn't keep satan out of eden or intentionally let it in.
I lost my girlfriend and best friend in 2019. She was killed by people who didn't care. I used to be so darn angry, at everything even God. But over the years I have learned that it wasn't him, it was the three who got hopped up on methamphetamines and took her from me. God had nothing to do with her death, but he had everything to do with when and how she came into my life and taught me a form.of love I had never known before. She was a light in my darkest hours and I hope to one day see her again in heaven. God has nothing to do with suffering, but we humans do. We cause each other pain...and for what? I don't know. I don't understand nor do I care. I will do my best to be as Jesus taught and try to bring light to a dark world and hopefully, I did it right. I pray for all of humanity. I pray that one day, we all see his light and turn from our darkness. Only through Christ are we saved.
You don't understand your own god and I'm sorry to tell you that but you are in denial. god had 100% everything to do with your situation. He controls everything and created evil and uses evil for his purpose. Why don't you actually read your bible instead of letting others read it for you. Google "god is evil" and you'll be shocked to see I am right. God literally kills people all throughout the book...how is it even possible to not know this but believe in this god?
Thank you for making this comment. It deeply resonated with me
@@ELDIARIOBOXER how do you explain the order a design of our universe...the unchanging laws of gravity and physics? How do you explain the complexity of life all the way down to its base structure called DNA, the most complex molecule and set of information on earth? If your only argument is "God not real" maybe actually study biology and physics before you make that assumption. Besides, if you don't like my story, so be it, no harm no foul. But please try to bring some actual thoughts and logic if you want to debate. Otherwise, step off
@@VladGenX What order? Look around man it's a chaotic mess and we don't have access to 99% of it. The complexities in life are the results of millions of years of evolution. Pick up a science book, you'll learn the answer to all these questions. Science already found the answer, the real answer not the made up, lazy god did it answer. You guys aren't capable of a debate. You believe in a fairy tale and you have no evidence to debate with. You're the one that needs to prove your god is real, otherwise it's not.
@@VladGenX dude people like u say " I think there's a god out there" "I believe that a being created this universe". But what yall don't understand is that ur just assuming that without research. Just a gut feeling. And if so who created god then? where did god came from? Oh u don't know 😤😤 because there is no god
7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?
8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me
and the light become night around me,”
12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
the night will shine like the day,
for darkness is as light to you.
Psalm 139
I must say experience this everyday and it is completely true. He is everywhere and there is no hiding His eyed see everything
andn funny how there is no evidence for your imaginary friend at all.
@@velkyn1 In my life there is more than enough as long His hand is upon me
@@warriorofthelord4142 Yep, more nonsense spouted by a cultist and no evidence for your claims. Curious how your god does nothing for the suffering, dear.
@@velkyn1 Suffering is what should bring us to Him
Holy crap I literally commented on that Neil degrasse Tyson interview saying that I would’ve loved to see him talk to cliffe 3 days ago, and now this pulls up out of nowhere
Yes friend, but this is an old video from Cliffe. God bless you
TH-cam algorithms? 👀
@mdmishfaqahmed2138 If God makes it so that a lighting strikes a pile of wood for it to catch fire, we don't say the wood catched fire because it is a easy to burn material. Just the same as I kick a ball towards you, you don't say that the ball went towards you because a force hit it in your direction.
@@martialgamers yes. I am just mentioning that youtube algorithms use comments as input for making suggestions.
Well Cliffe did not actually talk to Neil Tyson but it’s still cool.
You can watch full video called
Christianity 5 hardest questions with cliffe Knechtle
God bless :D
Without God there is no objective moral framework by which he can declare those things as being bad. It would only be his opinion that they are bad, and there is no scientific test that could be performed to prove him correct. The Bible explains why we suffer, gives us a reason to persevere through that suffering, and gives us hope for a future without suffering.
I choose to serve the Lord.
No* withouth god we stik posses objective morals.
Another problem=gods morals are subjective, They are less moral than humanitet versions.
@@alexkiaii6548how you have objective moral standard? Who set the standard?
@antoniussukardi9029 humanitarian interrest set the standart.
Thats what defines objective morallity.
God does not posses objective morals,he only subjective.
As he changes them acording to his emotions.
Where as secular humanitarian morals never change
A god that supposedly got bored of being by itself so it created the universe for itself even though it didnt need to. And lot it doesn't care if billions of children have been born with debilitating illnesses. Religions are ridiculous political tools. Nothing more.
You choose poorly
Could do without the extra loud distracting music.
People that are longtime Christians have no idea how annoying those stupid organs are and in general how irritating contemporary Christian music is to those that do not go to church they’re stuck in this bubble of their own culture that’s the problem
@@MetalHead-ks9zq pretty sure they were talking about the wildly out of place soundtrack on this video. But to your point, tell me you haven’t been in a lot of churches in a long time without telling me you haven’t been in a lot of churches in a long time. Very few, in fact exceedingly few churches have pipe organs in the US. Also, not every church uses “modern worship” music if they use music at all - there are some that don’t. There are churches where people sing hymns and no instruments are allowed. There are churches that feature drum circles and spontaneous worship. There are even churches that have Christian metal bands lead worship for services.
@@kriscollinstunesthis is a perfect answer.
It's there so it doesn't get a copyright strike, because the Savior of Humanity doesn't get permission to copy these clips.
Yea he started to lose me
We know that action has its consequence.
That is the lesson.
God wants us to live with no longer tears and suffering.
Trust God.
Pray for my family to change their heart, mind and to open their heart, mind, ears, eyes, for following the commandments of Lord Jesus Christ.
Free will is actually bad explanation, since suffering on Earth existed before humans.
Nah I Trust the
Winged Dragon of RA
@@goranmilic442 In Genesis, God's creation WAS perfect. Emphasis on WAS because after Adam and Eve were created, they rebelled against God and sin came into the world, and that's when things got real ugly real fast.
@Micah.Lau.navi. So animals like dinosaurs weren't suffering before humans existed?
Great video. I Love Cliff. He tends to break the questions down to where many people engage them, and that's at the emotional level. I love William Lane Craig's response to the problem of evil. Logically, it is no problem at all for the Bible, because the skeptic would have to show that it is logically impossible for God to have a morally sufficient reason to allow some evil/suffering. Not only can they not do this, but the Bible gives several morally sufficient reasons God has.
But, most people, when they ask this question, think they are asking a logical one, when really they are asking an emotional one. This doesn't make the questions less valid, but it does need to be answered differently. For example, they feel God is unfair for allowing their 2 year old to die of cancer, which is very understandable. And Cliff here tackles the emotional version of this question.
I love Cliff, but I don’t think this is the best answer.
When we are children, each and every one of us suffers in ways we’re convinced are utterly tragic. We stub our toes, scrape our knees, bite our tongues, get burned and sustain all manner of injuries and often, we break bones, draw blood and more. There are countless ways we suffer.
But every adult knows that despite the child screaming bloody murder and crying profusely, not only will these things quickly heal, but that they are ultimately inconsequential in the grand scheme of things and if anything, they make us stronger, smarter, better.
Literally every adult knows this to be true.
Is a parent not loving or good if they don’t swoop in to save the child from every cut and scrape?
Is it evidence of the parent’s weakness and fecklessness if their child skins their knee?
Or is it the exact opposite?
We all know that only a bad parent would seek to smooth out the road for their children, we know that a balance must be struck between protection and tough love.
We all know this and know it instinctively.
So, why hold God to a different standard?
Why not scale up that very concept and understand that our catastrophically horrible illnesses and injuries are but scraped knees compared to eternity in paradise?
Would dying in tornado be worth it to achieve eternity in heaven?
Would childhood cancer be worth it for an eternity in paradise?
Are we really so hubristic as to think we can understand the glory of God?
The answer to this question seems simple to me and those who pose it are either dishonest or intellectually lacking. Cliff is awesome, but I think there’s a better response.
I dont think we could ever understand Gods ways as a human because we dont know what the big picture is and we can neither see it or understand it. But we can spend our life trying. At least I have and that understanding has changed a lot over the years where I have been able to answer some of the questions. Unfortunately as I have been able to get answers to some of these profound questions I end up with even more questions.
That may be, but is that what you're going to say when tragedy strikes and a loved one asks you "How could God let this happen?!" No. That's where I appreciate Cliff's response in those instances. "I do not know." That's the most intellectually honest (and least hurtful) response, no matter how much we might see the various purposes behind it all. Getting into the deep, philosophical questions of the Bible could be very counter-productive in times of grief and loss, ya know?
@@2WhiteAndNerdy i absolutely love your answer and the other guys' answer too
Excellent brother Cliffe
As if God didn’t also suffer, bleed, and die. For US. FOR US. Suffering is GUARANTEED. If our God can condescend and humble himself to a blood soaked, excruciating death you can best believe we TOO will suffer. God calls and saves all who has called saved and will call and save. Whether we live life without a scratch on our heads, or missing limbs, violence, neglect, or lose our lives, or even the mental screws in our heads come completely loose, GOD IS STILL GOD. GOD IS STILL UNBELIEVABLY GOOD.
Why did he need to suffer for us? In what possible way did God suffering benefit us? We didn't ask him to suffer, and when he did it didn't affect us. It's a load of rubbish. Even if it really is a rule that he needed to suffer (for some unexplained reason), why does this rule exist? Apparently God makes the rules, so why would he make such an absurd rule, that he must suffer in order for him to forgive us? It's utterly stupid👍
@@jimmorrison2657 Because without suffering there would be no growth.
@@Micah.Lau.navi. Who made the rule that in order for growth we there must be suffering? It seems like a bizarre requirement to me. Anyway, who made that rule? God? Why did he make it? Why?
@jimmorrison2657 I'd say it's human nature. I, personally don't know why unpleasant things make people think, reflect and change.
@@Micah.Lau.navi.Human nature? Ok, so why did God make us have this nature? And do NOT say he didn't, we chose to be like this. God could have made us not have this nature if he is all powerful.
He does sort of answer the question when it comes to bad things happening to us when it related to other people; but the important distinction that Neil brought up was natural disasters, like Volcanoes, Earthquakes, Tsunamis', Landslides, etc...
If they are natural disasters, then no amount of man's free will should play a role in it... as in it is entirely up to God. Why does God allow it?
The "I. Do. Not. Know." Response is a pretty understandable and respectable answer from Cliffe, but also one that avoids coming to terms with hard questions needing an answer. God must either not be all good or not all powerful. It is up to you, based on whatever scripture you feel makes the most sense to understand that fact.
My fundamental problem with religion is the divinity God carries, as if God possess both all-power AND all-good when in the same texts many things stick out that create problems. God loves us and doesn't want us to be distant from us but gives us original sin(the capacity to commit sin) only to then judge us when he could avoid the headache altogether. Or we don't have free will and God judges us for shit he made us do!
With that in mind, is it not absolutely true to suggest God's love comes conditionally, not unconditionally? That I must meet criteria to be forgiven for sin that he allows me to commit? And if I was born into the wrong religion? Any of the 3 aka Christianity, Judaism, or Islam?
To be clear: this is the same God in Christianity and Judaism that in the Old Testament specifically tells the Israelites to commit genocide upon the Amalekites? 1 Samuel 15:3. This verse records the words of God through the prophet Samuel to Saul, “Now go and attack the Amalekites and completely destroy everything they have. Do not spare them. Kill men and women, infants and nursing babies, oxen and sheep, camels and donkeys.”
It is these examples that lead me to believe that God is not all good. Certainly all-powerful, but not all good.
Hello, I hope you’re doing well,
First off I wanted to say I really appreciate the fact you have some well thought out questions about Christ and who he is. I hope I can help in some way.
- Everyone has sinned. Nobody a part from Christ was able to fulfill the 613 mosaic laws. If there was anyone who DIDNT deserve death it was Christ. The criteria to not be dead in your sins is perfection. Hence the reason we need the Lords spotless lamb.
- The Lord often used Israel in the Old Testament to show his judgement on nations. The nations that Israel often invaded were completely evil. IE: Leviticus 18 described the practices of the Canaanites who performed things like child sacrifice. And what “religion” you are born into has zero to do with what you actually believe. There are countless people in America who are atheist that once called themselves Christian and vice versa. So this doesn’t have to do with your beliefs at all.
- Your original question is certainly a tough topic to talk about for sure. Ex. 33:19 the Lord tells Moses “I will have Mercy for whom I have mercy and I will have compassion for whom I have compassion.” Romans 6:23 tells us the wages of sin is death. We see in Genesis 3 after the fall we see the sin instantly began to corrupt the world as we know it. We also see in the book of Revelation that there will be no more tears and suffering after the Lords judgement. Cliffe is absolutely right when he says “ I do not know.” Because the Bible doesn’t necessarily give an exact answer to that question. But that does not make the book any less credible. A history textbook also won’t explain Pythagorean theorem but that does not mean it isn’t true or does not exist.
I hope this helps answer your question to some degree. If it doesn’t I apologize and I’ll try and articulate further if you like. I pray the Lord will soften your heart to the gospel. God bless you my friend.
@mackharris5356 I appreciate your response. I believe in the morals and ethics developed because of religion. I do believe that life is intrinsically valuable. I believe that there is objective morality.
Part of that objective morality, however, leads me to question things from within the Bible. Again, I appreciate you trying to help me understand further but unfortunately I do not believe those other verses quite answer the pressing questions.
The very same objective morality that I was taught from a young age doesn't quite fit with the statements from Samuel to Saul. According to the Bible, this is God's very own words. God himself tells the Israelites to destroy the Amalekites. God specifically directs them to commit Genocide. So there are 2 modes of thought from knowing this:
A) God did not say anything to Samuel, and thus the Israelite's actions were completely up to man, not to god. But this opens up the can of worms, that if this particular story was a lie, that a man passed it off as the word of God, then it must still be possible for other verses to also be lies from men, not necessarily the word of God.
Or
B) God did, in fact, order the Israelites to commit Genocide against the Amalekites. The question is, with free will, why did the Israelites do it? Because they would have believed it was God's word. God's instruction directly led to genocide. How destructive must a war be where no woman, child, or infant can be spared? Where not even the animals such as cattle are kept for food and resources and are also destroyed?
Is it not God's own morality that he impressed upon us as people to know objective wrongs? With that, why would he advocate for such a terrible crime?
It is also important to note that it does not matter how evil the Amalekites were... how distant from God they were... no evil act is worthy of an evil act in response, and we know this. God had to know that this was an objectively wrong thing to ask the Israelites to do.
Once again, however, the "I Do Not Know" Response is fair, I understand it is difficult to answer and the Bible does not provide a direct answer... this is why it is a question, and one that MUST be answered to further understand the nature of god and his will.
Saying I don't Know doesn't suddenly remove the question. The question persists. Why does God allow it.
There is no dilly-dallying around the problem.
So again, I ask you to ask yourself, can god be all-good and all-powerful and still be able to order the genocide of the Amalekites?
My response, which is an actual answer, rather than a tip-toe around one, is that no. God cannot be all good or all powerful at the same time.
With that in mind, that does not necessarily mean god does not love us, or want to help us, being not all-good does not equate god to being all-bad. God is just not all-good. I think it would be fair to say god wanted to teach us these lessons, but in order to do so he had to bend his own morals to teach us them. I mean, he allowed his own son to die for our sins... he must be willing to do bad things in some ways?
That last bit about the Pythagorean Theorem is a bit strange as well. The Pythagorean Theorem is a description to understand the fundamental law of shape. Regardless of historical fact or not Pythagorean Theorem would be true... if you got rid of all math and science, as well as all religions and then gave it a few thousand years, the religions would either not return at all, or if they did they would be completely different because they lack the history to go off of. Whereas all math and science would come back with the exact same conclusions. Math and science are objective like many morals.
And again, just ask the question as well:
God creates us with free will, AND original sin...
Only to judge us for sins that he allows us to do.
He could absolve us for our sins, or not allow us to commit sin, but instead he does, only to punish us later.
There is a serious issue here. Why does he put himself through all this trouble to create us to commit sin he isn't okay with?
From the outside looking in, as a non-religious person, it comes off as a VERY conditional love.
If you read the book of job , you’ll understand many things . Jesus is coming soon for those of us who love him and believe in him , If you don’t believe that HE paid your sin debt on the cross , then you’ll be separated from him for eternity , then Bible clearly says “ he is the way , the truth and the life
If God is the supreme, all powerful being, then He is good.
Evil is a corruption or privation of good.
If God is evil, it means He's not perfect and has been corrupted from the original good.
Therefore He's not God.
God is necessarily and logically good.
@@lator1941 clearly you did not read my comment and/or couldn't understand it
Great sermon! Keep it up! 💪
Theodicy is a branch of philosophy dealing with the issue of evil in light of the existence of God. If God is just and holy and good, then how do evil and misery exist? That’s the question theodicy wrestles with. History’s most famous statement of the “problem of evil” comes from the ancient Greek philosopher Epicurus:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
Of course, most people have no experience with philosophers. They do, however, watch movies, and a slightly modified version of this idea came from the character of Lex Luthor in a recent action film:
“If God is all powerful, he cannot be all good. And if he’s all good, then he cannot be all powerful.” - Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
The biggest hurdle in discussing theodicy is a tendency to waffle on the definitions of certain words. Or to color certain words with a meaning that is not part of the argument. So, in order to really understand the concept of theodicy, one has to carefully define his terms and then stick to those definitions.
What evil is, is “not”
The primary issue with the “Problem of Evil” is defining what evil actually is. Evil is typically seen as a force opposed to good, forming a yin and yang or two poles of a magnet. Defining evil in this way leads to a logical problem for the theist: why would God create evil? God created gravity, light, magnetism, and so forth: why would He also create evil?
The most logical answer is simply that God didn’t create evil. Because evil, in and of itself, does not actually exist, except as the absence of goodness. Similarly, God created light, but did He also “create” darkness? No, because darkness in and of itself does not exist. Darkness is only a term we use to refer to a relative lack of light. It’s entirely defined in terms of deprivation: the absence of something else.
The same is true of physical heat. Heat is a term used to describe the motion of atoms and molecules. When an object is cold, it simply has less molecular movement, relatively speaking. At absolute zero all molecular movement would completely stop, theoretically. You cannot get any “colder” than that, because there is no way to add more coldness. You can only remove heat, and when all the heat is gone, that’s as far as you can go.
The same basic point applies to many descriptive words. Terms such as short or thin are all references to the relative lack of something else. There is no such thing as “shortness,” and one cannot “add” shortness. There are only varying measurements of length. Printer paper is not “thin” because it has more “thinness” added to it than cardboard. We use the term thin so we don’t have to say “less thick.”
An example from mathematics is the constant i, or the square root of negative one (√(-1)). In reality, negative numbers cannot have a “square root,” but there are places in advanced equations where it’s a handy shortcut. The term i has meaning, at least in theory, even though we know it’s not a literal description of some tangible thing.
Another mathematical example is the “number” 0. The term zero literally refers to that which does not exist. It is a reference to nothing, to the absence of something. This is why adding or subtracting 0 results in no change, multiplying 0 is still “nothing,” and dividing by 0 is a logical contradiction. Is zero “real”? In the sense that it’s a term we can understand and that has use, yes. But, of course, 0 does not exist in any tangible sense. It’s literally defined as the absence of something (everything) else.
Putting all of these thoughts together, then, the same can be said of evil. The term has meaning and use, but we don’t have to assume it’s some actual, tangible, created thing. Evil is a relative term used to mean anything that deviates from the will or moral perfection of God. Evil is the lack of goodness.
All by itself, this reasoning goes a long way toward forming a proper theodicy. If evil is not some “thing” God created or some force outside of God that He cannot control, then the meaning of these questions becomes very different. Any premise that requires God to have created, formed, or generated evil is immediately invalidated. All that is required, then, is for God to have “allowed” it.
Our will versus God’s will
The debate of how we define evil doesn’t stop there, however. For many critics, the objection to God being “all good” inherently means “never allowing any evil.” The first problem with this view of God’s goodness is logical. The second is personal.
Logically, if God is perfect, then anything different from Him, in any way, is no longer perfect. You cannot change absolute, complete perfection and still be absolutely and completely perfect. This means that anything God creates is, by definition, different from Him and must be less than perfect. Considering evil as a deviation from God’s goodness, this leads to two possibilities, in order for God to completely and totally avoid evil of any kind.
First, God could simply not create anything at all.
Second, God could create but allow nothing in His creation the capacity for moral free will. In other words, allow no deviation leading to “evil.” But this makes a mockery of every other emotion, ideal, and benefit that critics of God want to uphold. In short, a universe logically incapable of evil is also one logically incapable of love, nobility, sacrifice or success.
A being unable to partake in evil is also incapable of exhibiting mercy, compassion, or love. It’s not hard to see how, if God had created things with this limitation, creation would seem like a waste of time. God desires love and glory-and our approval of that desire is irrelevant to its truth-but there can be no love given by robotic, choice-less creations.
So, for God to preclude even the possibility of evil, He must either not create or create something utterly pointless. Logically, it stands to reason that God allows the potential for evil because such freedom is intrinsically the same that allows the potential for nobility and virtue. Without that potential no love or other “good” things can actually occur.
This leads to the “personal” problem with demanding that God disallow evil. Once a person accepts the idea that evil has to be possible in order for us to have a meaningful free will, the next step is often to criticize God for allowing “too much” evil or the “wrong kinds” of evil. Here, again, definitions and personal preferences are key.
Critics of God often make an assumption at this stage. They make statements such as “a good God might allow some evil, but He would never allow X.” Once again, the logic leading to this point shows that God does not have to create evil for it to exist. This question also assumes, irrationally, that there cannot be things worse than X. Logically, it’s possible there could be evils even worse than X that God has prevented, and, because He has prevented them, we are unaware they are even possible. To continue to criticize God on account of there being “too much” evil is to waffle between logic and emotion.
We may not like the idea that God allows certain kinds of evil. And, logically, there is nothing invalid about a person choosing to say, “I reject obedience to God because I don’t agree with His morality.” But theodicy is not a question of making God agree with our whims. What we cannot say, logically, is that, if God does not act according to our moral preferences, then He cannot exist in moral perfection. This makes the critic the ultimate standard of morality!
To put that another way, claiming God cannot exist or cannot be perfectly moral unless He agrees with my moral preferences is to say this: “I am morally perfect, so if God and I differ on some moral issue, the only possible reason is that God is flawed, and I am not.” Once again, a person is not logically prevented from taking this approach. But just because it’s a possible viewpoint does not make it a reasonable one.
Does this mean there could never be a circumstance where God’s supposed morality conflicts with what we see in our experience? Not at all. The problem-for the critic-is that many of the rules he claims God fails to live up to are simply fictional. God never promises to make everyone’s life easier or better, nor does He promise to alter cause and effect simply at our whims. There is an eternal context and a spiritual condition to what God tells us about suffering and evil in this world. This is a key part of any reasonable theodicy.
So why allow evil?
Logic says that God does not have to create evil in order for there to be evil. Logic says that God does not have to conform to our moral preferences in order to be perfectly good. So, then, how can a person rationalize the existence of evil in a way that’s relevant to our own experience?
The first point that must be realized is that God is consistent in His “allowance” of our free will and the natural function of His creation. As it turns out, it’s the fact that God is consistent in His moral behaviors that greatly aggravates the skeptic. This is because God’s consistency runs counter to our human preferences: we’d rather God bend or break the rules to suit our own selfish preferences.
For example, God is consistent in allowing human beings a broad use of free will. This includes allowing people the freedom to reject His will and spurn His commands. This can result in consequences for those who choose to disobey. At the same time, much of the suffering of man on earth is due to the decisions of other people. There, again, God is being consistent in allowing humanity the freedom to act.
This is really nothing more than a re-phrasing of the earlier argument about allowing the potential for evil, because, without it, there is no potential for good. The same natural laws that allow us to build skyscrapers and develop medicines can be abused to make bombs and illicit drugs. They are the same laws that produce earthquakes and hurricanes. Too often, we make choices knowing the risks involved or with a deliberate intent to misuse creation and then blame God when those potential problems materialize.
The second point to make is that God is not motionless, silent, and inactive in the face of evil. Here, again, is a point where the critic becomes inconsistent. The same voices who attempt to say, “God is not doing enough to stop evil” are almost always the same ones who object when God does anything to stop evil. The incidents most often pointed to by critics of the Bible as evidence of God’s supposed immorality (such as the destruction of Sodom) were times when God explicitly stated that His actions were a response to malevolence. They were His means of stopping and preventing more evil.
The same critic who cries, “God does nothing about evil,” is all too often the same person calling God immoral for His actions in the flood. Or against the Amalekites. Or at Jericho. God has already taken steps to neutralize and counter evil. Saying He does “nothing” is simply untrue. Complaining that He does “too much” to stop evil is all well and good, but that makes theodicy irrelevant and the problem of evil moot.
The third point is that we have a limited perspective. This is not a very persuasive argument, especially for someone hostile to the idea of God. But, logically, it has to be said that the God under examination is posited to be omniscient, omnipotent, eternal, and omnipresent. We, of course, are not. We often hear employers, military personnel, parents, doctors, and others reminding us that there are things happening “behind the scenes” that we simply cannot understand. Our inability to understand certain decisions is not hard evidence that those decisions are wrong. It means nothing more than that we have incomplete understanding.
Finally, one has to take all criticisms of evil in the entire context of Christian teaching. If this life were all there is, then the problem of evil would be a much bigger problem. However, according to the Bible, this is not the only life we are going to live. A person can reject that belief, but he cannot criticize the God of the Bible and His morality as if the afterlife were not an intrinsic part of Christian moral understanding. Christians believe that all wrongs-every single one-will be reckoned with, someday. They believe that God is acting to restrain evil now, just as He has in the past. The Bible makes it clear that the struggles we experience now are not the purpose for which we exist, nor do they define our value. Instead, there is a point to the suffering and a plan that involves making all wrongs right.
Back to the beginning
Looking at these ideas, then, we can see that Epicurus’ version of the problem of evil suffers from a fatal flaw. This can be summed up in one simple statement: the “God” Epicurus criticizes is not the God of the Bible. In other words, Epicurus’ criticism only works against the deities of Greek polytheism and in the context of a polytheistic view of reality.
The Christian can respond to Epicurus as follows:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but unable to? Then he is not omnipotent. God is willing to limit evil and has acted to do just that. So, He is still omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. God is able, but not willing, to abolish our free will. So, He is still omnibenevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? God has acted to defeat evil. Evil comes simply when we fall short of His will.
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? God is not willing to prevent our free will. Your disapproval does not make Him any less God.
And, to the more pop-culture-friendly Lex Luthor, Christianity can respond as follows:
“If God is all powerful, he cannot be all good. And if he’s all good, then he cannot be all powerful.” God can be all-powerful and choose not to act according to your preferences. When you say “all good,” what you really mean is “doing things my way”; and when you say, “all powerful,” what you really mean is “capable of making us simultaneously free and robotic,” which is gibberish. An all-powerful, all-good God can allow evil in order to obtain the greater, eternal good.
Human beings will always struggle with the problem of evil. Theodicy is not an attempt to make God appear as palatable as possible. In fact, the opposite is true. A truly rational theodicy has to begin with the admission that our dislike of something does not make it false. The question is not whether God is compatible with our personal preferences. The problem of evil is simply the debate over whether or not God is logically possible. Theodicy, taking all logic and evidence together, clearly says He is-whether we like Him or not.
Thanks for the effort you put into commenting this. I can now conclude that the existence of a God that is all-good (good not according to the limited perspective of man, but according to the unlimited perspective of God) and all-powerful is not logically impossible. Much appreciated.
Beautifully said Amen!
What’s the name of the instrumental.. sorry out of topic
idk but it sounds like music played over those liminal space reels
my teacher once said the people born with deformities and people who are disabled are like this because god knew that they were strong enough to go through it.
How nice of this all living god. Specifically how he can see those who choose suïcide to get out of the suffering are strong enough to handle it.
@lmoelleb that just might not be because of natural causes, but us humans who encourage them to do it
@Rai_GO so they were strong enough to handle it, but god did not consider that they are among humans that will influence them?
God very rarely targets individuals to put curses on them or punish them. So a person born with a deformity is most likely a natural occurrence and has nothing to do with God. No one is strong enough to handle suffering
@@berane8909 Isn't God all powerful and all knowing? And he created nature? If so, it is his decision people get sick.
As a calvinistic determinist, he's right about the part about dusting myself off and saying "wow I'm glad that's over!". I've caught myself saying that so many times it's hilarious 😂
He gets Calvinism wrong as most people do, as reformed theology does not teach that we have no responsibility to struggle and fight the good fight, resist the devil, strive to do good and beseech the LORD to grant His holy favor, and follow HIM wherever HE might lead us 🙏🏻
A lot of people think Calvinists don't evangelize or pray for the LORD to lead or anything else of the sort, but those points are you from what's commonly known as Hyper-calvinism, which is NOT Calvinism. That gross over exaggerated take on reformed theology teaching could be what's described in the new testament as a doctrine of demons.
Godbless ❤
Turn the background music up some more please.
😂
The music is distracting.
That’s a cop out.
bro .-.XD
Ominous
I put my bible on my table(under the table), then when i sat down i accidentally put foot on top of the bible very quick and after i realised i felt so guilty and remorse im so sorry God It was a total mistake i have done the worst thing i have ever done to u pls forgive me lord i will do anything im so so so so sorry😞 and for the others out there forgive them lord for they what know for what they do amen❤
Is the CUP half-empty or is the CUP half-full ?... Either way, the CUP is there!... or there could be Nothing.
John 10:10 NIV... Jesus said,
"The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full."
Life is hard, but God is good.
All the time!
Does anyone have the source of Cliffe’s talk?
Thanks in advance.
The whole point is to help us improve, get stronger, and become more like Jesus. You can't get stronger without resistance. The world is a temporary place we've come to in order to learn and grow, never meant to be a paradise where everyone is comfortable forever and ever. For god to remove trials and pain is like asking the teacher to stop giving us work to do and just give us the diploma.
So God wanted us to sin right? Since according to you Eden is not what God wanted.
So where are we going after the world, what are the meek inherenting?
@@Void100-v3x God did not want Humans to sin. They were given free will, and with that God allowed sin as a part of that. Imagine a parent and a child. The parent does not want the child to get shocked, but that's what happens when you stick a fork into an outlet. Now imagine that the parent teaches the child about dangers and risks, and consequences and stuff like that. That is the Bible, the child can choose whether or not to listen to those warnings and know the consequences and still hurt themselves by sticking a fork in an outlet. Does the parent want that? Of course not. Free will is a wonderful thing, you have the ability to ask questions like this, and I have the ability to respond. If we didn't have free will we would be robots. No more meaningful debates about why you should listen to God, and more believers, but is that really loving?
what is the background instrumental?
"Tell me you've never read the bible without telling me that you've never read the bible". Tyson is not qualified to speak on these subjects, and he has the biggest ego of almost any pop-scientist Not easy to do.
I don’t always love Cliff but this is a good point. Even if we had the reasoning behind every single evil God allows, people still wouldn’t be satisfied by it
God is good God is love.
God gives infants cancer.
Yeah sure nigga his all loving yet he let all evil in the world. Awesome God right there.😂😂😂
god is make believe
@XtraMalicious Nah, I don't think so.
Your sin allows satan to perform evil
Before I was a Christian, I was under the curse of the law
Aged 40 , I converted from agnostic to Christian . Now I am blessed.
Jesus Christ is Lord, trust in His sacrifice, ask for His mercy to forgive you.
Be blessed
❤️✝️🙏
“Prepare the child for the road, not the road for the child”
We are children of god, and this earthly experience is our crash course, God gives us these trials to test our faith, that by showing humility, and integrity in temptation, he has the all clear to reward us as his heirs to his throne. This is why we can make all the bad choices we want, because the large scale consequences of sin are being exempt from the Kingdom of God in Eternal Glory
The music is terrible, too loud & distracting.
he skirts around answering the question with his example of Job, he says "god is fair, life is unfair, do not mix up the two". this implies that god created an unfair life. you could say that its just the result of the original sin, but that just pushes the problem back to that point. then you can ask, "why did god make the punishment so severe?"
I love that background
Beautiful ❤
Fabulous video. Get rid of the background music it’s annoying. The rest of the video is great!
Such a simple yet beautiful video ❤
Never understood why some believers feel they have to argue for God. Just casting pearls before swine. God is quite capable of arguing for Himself. He knows when a heart is ready for the truth. Look at apostle Paul.
So paul was a mute?
He didn't really answer Neil's question but I appreciate his answer of "I do not know." that's about as honest as it gets.
He answered it. I guessed you only listened to "I do not know." He also talked about free will.
@@raphaelfeneje486 Free will does not explain the death and suffering that is happening without humen cause. To take Tyson`s example of hurricanes, Vulcanos and diseases.
@@enceladus4161 Free will does explain it. Do you know what we mean by free will?? The Christian position is that human (Adam) violated God's instruction by exercising his free will, by so doing, sin came into the world and corrupted everything good. That's it! Need I forget, pain and suffering on the other hand isn't inherently evil, one would have to prove that it's possible to live in a world devoid of that because that has helped shaped us to be better people
@@raphaelfeneje486 Firstly I think i have to make clear, that i do not belive in the creation of the earth as shown in the Bible, nor do I belive in the story of Adam and Eve. Secondly it is the question in what way a diseas killing a new born baby is helping that baby. Because it does not, it takes away it`s chance of evolving into what could have been a wonderful human being. This baby did not do anything wrong, it did not even had the chance to sin, but still it`s life was violently taken from it. I do understand that it`s soul continues living in heaven, still it seems cruel and unnecessary.
@@enceladus4161 "I do not believe in the creation of the earth." I wasn't appealing to what you believe, I was giving the theist answer to the problem. Since you disagree with the position, offer a better explanation. You're an atheist, right?? So why is there pains and suffering. The argument is both an emotional and a logical one. On Atheism, there's no such thing as cruel, evil, etc. So they really can't offer much rather than appeal to emotions. That's why the theist position is better. That's my point.
Why would a world that loves to sin expect a perfect life ?
One of my favourite sayings is :
"Never blame God"
Good answer here by Cliff
Great message. Why the horrible music?
God allows suffering because it can be a tool for personal growth, character development, and a way to deepen one's relationship with God, even though it is not inherently good; often linked to the idea that humans have free will and the consequences of sin can lead to suffering in the world, but God is still present to provide comfort and support during difficult times. 🙏🏾❤️✝️
This explains suffering caused by other humans but he didn't answer the cause of suffering by natural deseases which was the initial question stated at the beginning of the video
that is true. but the best explanation for the fact that there are natural disasters and diseases in our world is due to the fact that after we've decided to use our free will, and turned away from God, He respected our decision to go against Him, so He stepped away. when God steps away from His creation, imperfect elements enter the world, such as chaos, which have nothing to do with Him. there are clear consequences to our actions within this world, and if we are to agree that there is a God, then this world was made FOR us, correct? so therefore, by rejecting Him, who wanted the best for us, who made this entire universe for us, it is not a stretch to say that our spiritual split with Him was the very thing which caused the world around us to invite chaos in it.
When sin entered the world it corrupted everything. When God steps back, chaos fills the gap
@@cr7fannboiironaldo180 I think your comment was a better answer than the video, granted I only watched half of it.
i dont think he directly answered the video from niel
@@Geraedbow He didn't, I know. It's just the way the video was put together that makes it confusing because the statements Cliffe gives are not answering the question
Obviously I'm a couple weeks late to this, but if anybody wants the answer to Neil deGrasse Tyson's question, here it is: sin was introduced with Adam. With sin, corruption. The natural order of the world was corrupted. That's the origin of natural disasters. That doesn't explain why God allows them to happen or why God allowed the corruption to begin with. What does is Romans 9. This chapter describes God's sovereignty in relation to salvation. Now, here's the thing, we know that God must be in control over his creation. This means that we can't avoid the fact that he allows these to happen. The comparison that he makes between humans can also be applied to disasters: what if to make his glory known he allowed a disaster to happen and he allowed somebody to die so that the person he didn't allow to die would see his grace and mercy all the more? That's the question Paul asks by inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The good news is that this life isn't all there is. Our sin earns us death day one of our lives. No sin can take away our eternity though. We will either live eternally in heaven or hell. No one earns heaven but Christ. He has freely offered salvation to those who would believe. Trust him. He is sovereign. He is in control of our eternity. He has paid for our sins. Trust him and follow him and know that whatever suffering happens on this world is meant to bring more people to him. That's why Paul says that the sufferings of this world aren't even worth comparing to the glory that we'll see in heaven.
Raked over the coals..
Part of what’s confusing is that why would the sins of one affect the innocent so harshly? Why should be judged on our thoughts as well? Actions have consequences but thoughts are fleeting holding no weight. How has the innocent sinned? A child gets hurt because of a bad person, and yes that person is punished, but what of the child? God limiting his power seems a bit callous. For those who do not know god or have no desire to sin, what of them?
Didn't really answer Neil's question. Natural disaster isn't the same as a person's free will dealing harm to other people.
It's more a way to think for ourselves instead of being an outright answer or that's how I take it atleast
@@okk2005 Pray for my family to change their heart, mind and to open their heart, mind, ears, eyes, for following the commandments of Lord Jesus Christ.
@@Male045_1 Thanks for telling me, I truly pray for your family and that the Lord will open their hearts.
I will pray privately to god for you and your family.
He loves you all very much.
✝️♥️
He did, it's because God stepped out from creation because human rebellion, and then chaos takes his place, natural laws happends. God created the universe in a couples of days, using his law he's what keeps the creation perfect.
@@cruzwaldfelt7357 I see. But the natural laws are his creation, is it not?
God stepped out because he respect human's free will, he wants us to face our own consequences of our actions. Therefore, chaos follows. We didn't do anything to create natural disasters. At least that's what I understand from his speech.
If natural disasters happen without God's maintainance, then the system he created is perhaps flawed or this is a punishment from God.
He gives us the ability to be evil because, if we were forced to be good, we wouldn’t be being good, because being good requires the choice to do bad.
Neil's question was about natural disasters.
@@Chidds natural disasters happen because we live in a cursed world because of sin.
We do know. The answer is "for His glory, and our good".
A title of CityAlight's song.
What kind of God finds glory in a child being crushed to death by a truck? Or a tsunami killing hundreds or thousands of people? Or childhood cancer?
If there is no one who seeks God, how can someone be able to seek Him with all his/her heart?
Aren't we created beings? If we are created beings and are limited, isn't our "will" also limited?
Isn't God only has the Absolute Free Will?
The Bible clearly says we were in bondage to sin. If we were in bondage to sin, how can we "freely" choose God in that state?
In that sate, what kind of "free will" did we have?
TLDR, God, by His abundant grace and mercy, enabled us to choose Him(the thing that we can never ever will on our own because we were dead in sin).
So Cliffes answer is that he doesn’t know. Great info right there! 👏🏻
Had the same thought. "I don't know." Everything else he says is just speculation for the sake of trying to defend this impotent or evil god
The worst thing a pastor can ever say to his hearers is “ i don’t know.”
@@CalebW451 In other words, the worst thing a pastor can ever do is tell the truth.
@@chrissnyder4439 No. Saying truth is different and is absolute. 1+1=2 that’s truth not I don’t know.
@@CalebW451 If you don't actually know, "I don't know" is absolutely truth. Speculation isn't truth.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood but rulers of the unseen world
Fun fact about celebrity scientists:
Theyre not actually scientists.
Neil is not a cwlwbrity scientist, he is a real scientist.
Cliffe is a celebrity, he has no phd,no education of value and has zero works of wonders.
Where as Neil tyfon posseses all those
@@alexkiaii6548have you heard him talk about covid? He was like, trust the experts, trust Fauci and the cdc and the government and big pharma😂
A real scientist. Yeah
@victorvolobuev507 did you hear cliffe about the bible ?
All he had was trust me bro semantiks.
But never proof or any workable peistomology with no fallacies.
Il take Niels making a basic mistake over cliffes narcissistic lies
@have you heard the story about Pandora’s box?
@@alexkiaii6548 mistake? People were ready to twke away rights of others based on that misinformation and mistake. People lost jobs, got fired, got threats to suspend practice licenses, made to sit at home, lose their businesses, threatened to refuse healthcare. Smart move supporting “that mistake”
People got censored for speaking out about it too.
Suffering is allowed because God can bring great good out of it. For example, many of the Saints accepted great sufferings so they could help save souls.
And you all know all the many examples even in movies where someone was a disaster, and then a great suffering occurred, and they became wiser and kinder
What good cane out of the holocaust?
I don't think he answers neil's question... or rather he answered something else and you just made a video just for the sake of your interest.
It’s because he doesn’t know so he avoids the subjects. It’s weaving his own bs to try to fool the audience. Didn’t fool me
Summary of his Video: Why would a world that loves to sin expect a perfect life ?
Well, that was a great answer for human action and free will, it didn’t answer the question of natural disaster, which was what Tyson was asking about.
He doesn’t really answer he question. Tyson was talking about hurricanes, volcanoes, infections that kill children. These are not evils caused by free will, God crated these catastrophes that land on us humans no matter our actions or free will
They say "evil was introduced by adam and Eve. Such as deseases,cancer,parasites.
Yet dinosaurus have been found with cancer.
Theisms truly defines ignorance and a closed heart.
If humanity obeys God 100% we are all living in paradise right now
They are created when Adam and Eve bite into the fruit, flooding the world with all sorts of misery, evil, and anguish.
Pandora’s box was opened, and it affected the world. Childbearing became a labor of love and farming now includes weeding, rock removing. And that was only when Adam and Eve sinned, man hasn’t stopped piling up his rebellion against God though
The Earth also has free will. It was not designed to contain disasters. The disasters are a result of sin. When humans sinned they are choosing to be separate from God. People think that Hell is a bad place because it is where God punishes you. That is not the case. Hell exists because it is separate from God. Anyone who chooses to live their lives separate from God will have their wish granted. Those who yearn to be with God will be in Heaven, not because we earn it, but because Jesus died for our sins as an ultimate sacrifice to give us a way back to God. The world we live in today has already been corrupted by sin. Humans’ free willed sins caused us to be separate from God. That includes the Earth. So natural disasters, infections, diseases, mutations, and death are examples of life without God.
Wow. As a catholic that was super deep. Lord Jesus have mercy o. Our souls by the blood of your cross. Mother Mary and the saints pray for us to be received into the kingdom of heaven at the hour of our death
Did mother Mary create u? Or the saints, why are u praising creations?
@ God created Mary
Mary accepted to be the mother of God’s Son
Without Mary you’d be damned
The saints have be God’s vehicle by the power of the Holy Spirit through their love of Jesus to spread and die for the gospel for 2000 years
@@christopherton Without Jesus you would be damned. Not Mary.
@@EarthButNotFlat it is actually both. But it started with her at the annunciation
@@christopherton It is not both. That is unbiblical. Communicating with dead people is an abomination and forbidden. Its even addressed several times in the bible. 20:6,27; 1 Samuel 28:5-18; Isaiah 8:19-20d several times in the Bible.
Isn't he the globe man ?
Isn't he the man who is able to provide the best explanation for the gravitational pull ?
He's now annoyed and fearful that "oh Can't God handle all this?" 😂
He is finding fallacy in god, ergo porving to people.
God does not exist
He's right its free will
Has no one noticed, that he claimed that allmighty god is limited? And he covers it up by claim, that he chose to put limits ontonhimself. The contradiction still shines there as naked butt in the bush.
@@jakubholic8769 It doesn't mean he's not "all powerful."
Did you see the whole video¿
@@ihaveaname15 All powerful doesn't mean with limited power. And never will.
I wish that people would stop using free will to explain the pain and suffering caused by natural disasters and other things outside of human free will and control. Even if you accept the free will argument, it only explains the suffering and pain caused by human actions. Tyson was very specific in mentioning these outside of human control in his argument.
Sin is in our blood and why it creates congenital birth defects in some but not others is way above my understanding. Neil raises legitimate questions but his unbelief only invalidates God to him and people who think like him. Since science is Neil's god, maybe he should do a study on ancestral DNA and see if that explains congenital birth defects and I would love to see Neil prove God does not exist since he's so much more intelligent than most everyone else.
@@kelvinphillips3528 I don't think it's about proving that God does not exist. Actually, I don't believe that you can prove or disprove the existence of God It's about trying to reconcile those bad things in nature, beyond human will or control, with an all-powerful and all -good God. While natural suffering doesn't disprove God's existence, it does question God's nature and whether or not there is an all-powerful, all-good anthropomorphic God as traditionally understood in religions such as Christianity And you can claim that sin somehow creates congenital birth defects all you want, but can you demonstrate a link between sin and such defects? Plus you are nowhere near explaining natural disasters and such. And things like natural distastes,, genetic mutations, diseases and such were in the world long before there were humans, so blaming sin really does not work There has to be some bigger picture, if we are going to even begin to reconcile these things with an all-powerful and all-good God.
And even then God seemed to have no problem with interfering with human free will in the Bible
@Viod753
Very interesting. Please provide an example.
@@kelvinphillips3528 How about the whole story of the Exodus from Egypt?
The same people who tell us the earth is becoming overpopulated are the same people who tell us that if God exists them he should prevent bad things from happening to us.
We are still in this world called Earth. It's a beautiful world but not a perfect one. Along with the good are the bad ones in this place. Sickness, disasters, calamities, corruption, greed, etc. At times, evil triumphs over good. We are all affected (good and bad people), not one is exempted because we are in this imperfect world. If ungodly people get cancer, so are the godly ones. Until Jesus, our hope, comes back, we are all going to go through what awaits us in this world. The only difference we have from the ungodly is the HOPE we have in Jesus. We know that when we pass thru this temporary place of dwelling, we will be with Him in a perfect place forever.
When this man first became prominent, I had so much respect for him, and I still admire his intellect. HOWEVER, it amazes me that someone so smart will not read the Bible for himself. I saw him in another video and was surprised by his commentary on God, and I admit that changed my mind about him a little. Unfortunately, many highly intelligent people are ‘too intelligent’ to believe in God, but God is all powerful, and God is all good, however mankind is not. We kill each other, we kill babies in the womb, we abuse children, we pollute the air and food, and use substances that create many birth defects, all while snubbing our noses at God, trying to prove that we don’t need him. The Earth is fallen and still God‘s mercy is the reason we’re not all consumed. Those of us who know and believe God, have hope that one day this earth will pass, and a new heaven and earth with no hurricanes, no storms, and no more death is being prepared for those who believe and accept Jesus Christ the son of God as savior.
What is the space age music on this for
Where can I find this full video of cliffs speech.....
I’ve seen this clip before and every time I see it I always wonder how could someone that is allegedly so smart fail to grasp something so simple and even something that’s addressed in scripture.
The skeptics never seem to ask why, if God is all Just, the wicked are allowed to prosper.
I didn't feel WORTHY for years!. It's never too late. I'm thankful for God's grace and the ability to finally forgive myself. A weight has been lifted! JESUS CHRIST IS MY SAVIOR ❤ Forgive your enemy so that you shall also be forgiven. Lets help our Brothers & Sisters SO they KNOW the TRUTH about everlasting life! ✝️
Praise to our Father.
The fault of suffering by any cause whether it be natural disaster, disease, etc... Is squarely placed on the shoulders of sinners when we decided to determine for ourselves what is good and evil in the garden of Eden. We decided to go against God’s Will and now we are in a fallen state subject to death and suffering.
Praise God for the hope, grace, and mercy he gives us in Jesus Christ.
How can natural causes of suffering be the fault of sinners when these things existed in the world long before there were any humans in the world, sinners or not.
@ sin was not brought into the world until satan deceived us into bringing it ourselves. Before that (in the garden of eden) we were in a perfect state. Since we decided to determine for ourselves what is good and evil we have been cast into a fallen state in the world where we are subject to the tragedies and malevolence of the existence we brought on ourselves by turning from God.
“And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” Genesis 2:16-17 NIV
Neil deGrasse Tysons' shirt says everything in two words:
Sun worship
Tyson wants a God Who gives us a perfect world. The Bible says God will take our light afflictions and they will be turned to glory. Why He allows things is for Him to know because He is outside of time and sees the beginning from the end. We grieve but not as those without hope. Cliffe is right and especially how we react to others in the midst of their pain. We do better to offer to be there for them. Amen
So god allows people to suffer so he can take those afflictions and be turned to glory. So this god suffers from hero syndrome where he puts us in a dangerous position for the sake of saving the day.
@ do you not get stronger from what doesn’t kill you? The Bible tells you about trials and tribulations. Do your parents let you stumble and fall? Oh, what bad parents…..atheists and skeptics bend this way and that so they caj deny the Truth. He is a perfectly good God. Follow the Son into eternity or accept the consequences.
@@michaelbrickley2443 I know Christians tend to stumble with physics and biology, so I'll help you out. A child getting hit from a bus isn't generally something they survive, that's why I specifically chose that example. Even if they do, there's a difference between letting a kid stumble and fall and allowing something that could result in becoming paralyzed or an amputation.
I mean... you can't blame Neil. He's not angry at God. He hates the broken things of this world no matter how much he agrees with faith or not.
I’d love to see Neil debate John Lennox.
The question is not about suffering. It's about harm and death thats caused outside of our control. We cannot blame ourselves nor Adam and Eve for bringing natural disasters and our own bodies developing diseases simply because it can. Adam and Eve brought death, not suffering.
I'd love to see a conversation between these 2.
Free will does not explain natural diasters like earthquakes ,volcanoes, hurricanes, etc
I’m a Christian man I have been through a lot of things in my life. I have had birth defects when I was born and I should’ve died. I had Grandmall seizures was bullied and was almost put into a coma because of my seizures. I had a brain surgery that I woke up paralyzed from. I forgot my name, my mothers name, all my family relatives and the alphabet. I had to learn how to walk, read and write all over again and at the end of the day not once did I ever blame God for those things. My blame is on Adam and Eve first people to sin which then allowed sin to the world. The Bible is very clear. God is all good , before the fall of man, there was no sin, and there was no suffering and no children die from car accidents no random volcanoes, irrupt it to kill people or hurricanes or earthquakes, but because of sin, all those things were then allowed to come into this world I think it’s wrong for any Christian to sit here and claim to not have the answers to these hard questions when the Scriptures clearly tell you that it is because of sin that bad things happen it is because of the fall of man, and we live in a fallen world that we have suffering and unkindness and hatred but the best part of all of this is that Christ, then willingly came and died for are sin not to relieve us from suffering here on this imperfect earth, but so that we could live with him forever in paradise it’s very simple and I think we just take too much into it and don’t just listen to what I have to say it is word.
NGT is the perfect example of what happens when we rely on our own self righteousness and not on the light of our Lord Jesus Christ. Without Him we are nothing.
Free will doesn't really justify the numerous natural disasters than cause unnecessary suffering in the world.
When man fell the entire order of the world fell too
With the introduction of sin , not that hard to understand
But one should also accept that God can take anyone of us out of this world at any time for a purpose
NDT should imagine those people in the Bible who felt these plagues, natural disasters yet they still believed in God and these even strengthened their faith.
More good can be brought about from the destruction of evil than if it never existed in the first place. This does not mean we know why God chose to do it. Maybe it was so we would have to make a choice, maybe it's a test of our faith. We can never understand the mind of God, but I trust Him. Let His Will be done.
1.All things come together for the good of those who love God and who are called according to His purpose.
2. God has control over everything.
3. God will allow the devil all the room necesary for your life to come to the reality that Jesus is Lord and to bring you to a better place.
4. God wants you to talk to Him.
5. People who die "early" God has full knowledge of every action you take before He created you in your mothers womb, death isnt bad, death without God is.
Death without God is Hell.
To die on the Earth with God is to live forever with Him.
The real question is will you die not knowing God?
The Bible is very clear that God is not only all powerful, but that he perdonally brings trials and hardships upon us. The Bible is also clear that each and every trial is there for the good of those who love Him. God's purposes are infinitely higher than ours; who wre we to question them?
The book of Job outlines this concept as a whole: that God is indeed in control of the hardships we face, but he inacts them with purpose, and we are nobody to question Him.
Is Mr. Tyson listening? The guy seems to hate God. Thank you Cliffe for explaining things so well
While "I don't know" is a valid answer, it's not a valid explanation of anything.
If someone blames God about the imperfection of the world, then I say to them. If you want the world to be perfect, then go and perfect yourself.
I love cliffs answer but he doesn't really answer neils question, the question wasn't "why do bad things happen to good people?" the question was "Why does God allow natural disasters to happen to innocent people?" I think a good way to answer this question is by acknowledging that Gods good is not our good. That what he sees is not what we see, and that what he knows is not what we know.
Bro seriously Neil still hasn’t gotten the basic concept of opposition in all things? 😭
What is up with the drive-us-insane music in the background?
God is NOT limited
Free will doesn't explain why a good god would let good people suffer, they don't deserve to- that's what Hell is for, only for the bad to suffer.
So God is punishing the good people in life and threatening the possibility of more punishment in the afterlife.
Endless rounds of suffering means God isn't good, or that he's a bad teacher.
I like 4:10 "when God steps back" and he literally takes a step back, placing himself in the position of God, acting out God's part in his visual analogy, that's blasphemy.
Being good doesnt mean free from suffers, Even the perfect Human who doesnt commit a sin once in his lifeitime suffers.
Heres is how the world works. One day, you decided to run over a person and if that person is a faithful follower, then he will have reserved place in heaven.. but if he isnt a fiathful follower or isnt a follower, then that person unfortunately will have to go to hell.
Its really simple. One person is prepared and the other isnt.
That is why God tells us to be prepared for anything can happen to us. We dont not control when we die or live, but we can lead our soul to Heaven
(Sorry for Bad English)
We do not know why we were born in the first place, we do not know why we have to suffer in this world, we do not know which religion is true or false. It all comes down to faith.
If Quran tells the thruth then i go to hell. If the bible tells the thruth then i go to heaven, etc.
@Qeris1
Right. I can't argue with that and I don't really need to add anything, everybody that doesn't believe in your god is wrong and you can do whatever you want to them.
I think religion may have started with "my dad could beat up your dad", don't make me get my dad, my dad's dad will bring fire and plagues, my dad's brother will block out the sun and your crops will fail if you don't bow down (said some astrologer or astronomer) and it worked.
It's a series of tall tales and a few provable things that give authority to the person making unprovable statements. If the book says proper hygiene is good and that's true to some unwashed person, then you can convince them what to eat, think, say and how much of their crops to give away.
What song
If this life is all there is, I guess Neil has a point. But if this life is temporal and the hereafter is the real eternal life then you can see how suffering here is mitigated. Look at the Beatitudes. Blessed are the poor,meek, those who suffer. You are a soul, you have a body.
The wages of sin is death. Spiritual and physical . The only thing equal to Gods love is his wrath. Nobody has seen Gods wrath yet . Everything we see that is evil or bad and I mean anything comes from the lawless one the ruler of this world the devil. Lord help us all. If you want Gods help then turn to him in all that you do🙏🏼✌🏼
Thank you Lord Jesus Christ!!!!
God allowed it to happen for his glory! There is no such thing as a meaningless tragedy! God is sovereign over everything!
I don't free will is the answer to the problem of evil. God could have still prevented us from committing evil without inhibiting our free will. If we assume we currently have free will and that god exists, there are things that I cannot physically or biologically do. Not being able to do these things doesnt prevent our free will, so not being able to do evil also shouldn't. And this doesn't explain natural disasters or diseases. I with NDT on this one.
This world is fallen and ruled by Satan, What to expect? A perfect life for a world that loves to sin? For the answer of your question, evil comes from sin. Sin is "an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.". This comes from a choice. Free will is being able to choose what you want to do. Yeah, you could argue 'why did he let sin into the world in the first place?'. Because Adam and Eve had a choice, eat the fruit or not, sin comes as a byproduct of freewill. You could stick a fork in an outlet, but don't expect to not have consequences. This world isn't perfect, it was corrupted as soon as Adam and Eve defied God. His perfect world is in heaven, this world is evil by nature, why should we expect otherwise?
This would be a great short without the loud obnoxious music!😐
This does not explain why things are made they way they are. It's like accept passively that world couldnt be different from the very start.
He proved Neils point, they both agree on that but one is christian one is not, interesting
The question is not “where is God?” but WHERE YOU ARE RIGHT NOW.