@@endryl08 I mean but at least the agnostic guy was coming to a conversation to seek and understand the other side of the coin. Normally when you talk to agnostic or atheist they aren't willing to do that.
Do you think the universe is well designed? Not to me, with tsunamis, earthquakes , malaria asteroids that have done much damage to life on this earth, bone cancer, super nova stars exploding killing all life in their blast zone. Then we live in an ecosystem one of kill or be killed, eat or be eaten! if there is a god of the bible, is clearly a spiteful psychopath.
And I think the educational (or not so educational) schooling from pre-school thru college is more about indoctrination than critical thinking and education. I see this in “person on the street” dialogue and questions. It’s as if they don’t know history (or a lie of history), geography and simple math (plus ,ore). But they can list all of the pronouns available.
No, Christian or agnostic intelligence does not decline in 20 years in a population. The culture? The moral fabric? The structure and content of institutions of higher learning? The integrity of the family? Yes those can change in that period. Thomas Sowell may even have supportive evidence for access to a variety of cultures being linked to intelligence scores, but it is not the only variate. So now the question remains that Snowden, Musk, Aquinas, Theresa, Ghandi, Sowell, JP the second, Lincoln, Poutier all ask “What are you going to do about it?”
This just confirms how much the system failed us, like when that guy said "Would it be more honest if I said I believe in me" and everyone started nodding l, and agreeing with him that frightened me, honestly because it's like I saw a glimpse of how kids are the way they are now, They believe in themselves now way to much! And like Cliff said to the point where "Its Embarrassing" and it is!!. But my Bar for society will never fall and I will keep my faith, and help my generation and people in general anyway I can!. 🙏🏾
how are you today? did this conversation have an impact on you afterwards? loved your ability to have a respectful and constructive conversation and actually wanting to listen to his responses!
@@Runningtaco this was me probably 15 years ago. Very slow walk forward at the beginning but have really immersed in it in the past 2 years. Cliff plants the seeds. Like the man said in Mar 9, I believe, but Lord, help me in my unbelief. I believe content like this answers that prayer. And it also helps me give a defense of the hope I have in me, as Peter instructed.
@@jzmooloo Lack of humility can be linked to specific psychological conditions, it can also arise from personality traits, social influences, and situational factors. It’s essential to approach this topic with nuance, as humility can vary across contexts and individuals. It has nothing to do with a GOD OR GODS. You can't see God without it. is Begging the Question !
@@Alma-RFChannel the mental gymnastics to prove something that no one has been able to prove yet is truly astounding, wouldn't you agree? To speak with absolute truth as if the story written in a book has been proven to be the absolute truth is kind of naive to me. So if life is created by an intelligent design...then who created that intelligent designer? 😂 🤦
I was born in a wealthy and religious hindu family. I had health issues and bad behavior of anger and watching porn and mastarbute. My family was worried for me. They took me to many places like temples and hindu religious places, prayed to hindu gods and did rituals like puja etc, but nothing worked. No hindu gods helped. Then an exhindu converted to Christian came and shared her family's Testimony and invited me to Christ. Her Testimony moved my heart, so i went to her pentecostal church and what I experienced there changed my perspective towards Christianity forever. I started attending church meetings, and Jesus delivered me from all problems. I gave my life to Jesus. He showed me that He exists and cares for me.. and Jesus cares for you too. Jesus loves you because He created you ❤
Ok, I get it now, jesus was not able to stop some kids from getting raped, kidnapped, and murdered because he was too busy stopping you from watching porn and choking the chicken 😂😂😂😂 WOW! JUST WOW!
Remember when people who disgareed still knew how to talk to one another politely? It's almost as if "don't talk about politics or religion" was a bad idea that put people out of practice.
So true. You look at these types of events in college campuses today and it's shockingly different. We absolutely MUST discuss politics and religion. Right now we're at a point where I'm afraid to lose my job if I am to talk about it.
@HandledToaster2 It is true of what you say. We are the old guys and have experience with Almighty God. We do not argue, for all we do is share. Today, you might not be ready, but there are many days in the year,and someone else might be the right person to talk to you. It will always be God's will. AMEN
The agnostic guy spoke so well that this sounds like a movie Edit: apparently people are thinking I’m siding with the agnostic. I’m a Christian who agrees with Cliffe. My comment here is stating that the agnostic kid spoke with a refined sense of diction, to the point that it felt like I’m watching a movie. I don’t think he had a good argument.
Jesus Christ is the Way, Truth, and Life, no one comes to the Father without the Son, in the Bible, which is before the quran, Jesus very clearly claimed to be God, and by the way He lived, died, and resurrected, even doubting Thomas, who said he would never believe until he touched Jesus' wrist and thrust his hand into His side, because of the nails on His wrist, and the spear to His side, and Jesus appeared to the disciples after His resurrection, and Thomas was there, and Jesus told Thomas to touch His wrist and His side and believe, and Thomas did it, and believed, but "Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29.
He seriously was very well spoken. It's refreshing to hear actual, intellectual conversations with solid points made and solid questions asked on both sides. I think the art of having a good conversation is a dying art nowadays.
I have mad respect for the man who took part in the debate. For one, he came seeking reasonable answers, not just to argue. He stayed composed and respectful the whole time. He was honest, honest in a way that still wasn’t rude. The fact that he could honestly say he believes he’s never felt love and that he doesn’t feel guilt but regret I believe helped the debate progress in a way that he could find answers that would help him find, or at least look for Jesus. We need more people willing to debate about sensitive topics without blowing up on the other person.
@@bibleburner8426 While there is quite a bit of evidence that proves Jesus’s existence, a big part of my belief is my faith. No one can see Jesus so naturally it’d be hard to believe he exists since most people need confirmation with their eyes and find it hard to trust a Bible that is so old and thus supposedly “outdated”. Now while I can’t see God physically, I can see how his presence in my life has brought about changes in it. In the end though, telling you my reason for believing, isn’t gonna suddenly make you believe. If you really care to find out, you should do some digging of your own, read the Bible, see how those who truly have Christ in them act, and see if changes also appear in your life after all of it.
@bibleburner8426 a crap ton of historical evidence. Even atheist historians agree Jesus did exist. The issue isn't did Jesus exist, the issue for most atheist historians is the miracles he did, and his claim to divinity. That's where historians are divided between believers and non believers
@@TubularBellsRequiem6531 For evidence to be considered "historical", it has to be verifiable. We have zero evidence for Jesus' existence that is verifiable. We have guesses. That's what historians offer...guesses.
@bibleburner8426 I'm not too well studied yet as I'm pretty new, but there's like 5,000 something Greek manuscripts about Jesus and the Gospels. If that's not evidence then idk what is to you
I can’t describe how much I appreciate a conversation like this. 2 people talking, not at each other, but with each other. Listening, understanding, wanting an answer, not wanting to be right. We need more of this
As a person who grew up Agnostic, but now a Christian, I can say that the guy was not being rude whatsoever. I love how he was genuinely curious and wanted to know. He was super well-spoken. Cliff is so anointed with the Holy Spirit!!! His response to these questions are so good!!
So true! That's the thing. I do believe faith is a good thing, but not everyone has it. I identify a lot with this man. I would love to believe, but I'm not there quite yet
yes. that is my observation too. Many people debate by bad intentions they already knew and can assess it, yet they only ask to show their wanting for recognition.
I've listened to a lot of Cliffe's arguments and know that he is pretty consistent. He makes these same points over and over. What changes the pitch in the videos has been the person he's interacted with. This guy and his way of communicating helped facilitate the way Cliffe could get into his point and then move to the next point without fighting. They both were extremely respectful to each other. In those kinds of situations, i believe Cliffe has the high ground.
@@goranmilic442 there no argument that can refute God's existence. Only arguments that highlight choices (whether or not you believe He exists). Cliffe is GREAT at highlighting the choice for theism.
I have to hand it to the college kid for his honesty. That was probably the most intelligent, interesting dialog I've heard given for the proof of God.
At 45, as a combat veteran, I hit what felt like the lowest point in my life. Overcome with sorrow, I prayed one night, giving it all to God. In that moment, I felt His comforting presence, whispering, "It's okay to fall apart, I’ve got you." Just three weeks later, my life began to change through the incredible kindness of Michael Jtone Leshkevich. His generosity led me to an amazing business opportunity that transformed my life. Now, I find real peace in using my finances to serve God. God’s promises are true-never give up. This journey with Michael has been nothing short of a miracle. .......
@@Mary-x7j He never said that he used God to sell stuff. He said that someone helped lead him to a business opportunity, *then* he's using his finances to serve God, whether it be tithing or whatever else. Him having a business opportunity, and him serving God with his finances are two completely different things in his story.
@@Mary-cr9jq The fact this misinformed comment has 11 likes genuinely terrifies me for what's to come. Man, everyone who liked this is probably screwed when it comes to eternal life with Jesus.
I had a bad stroke in Jan. of 2023. In the time since then laying in bed and unable to walk I've come to know God more than ever...and Im thankful to have had the opportunity to experience this closeness to my maker!
Then my friend, you have an exciting journey with Him! You believe in Jesus Christ? Then you will be able to walk again! Read John and then Acts. Believe Steven, your faith will make you well!
Extremely wonderful conversation between this student and Cliffe.. Cliffe surely is a true warrior for the cause of Christ. Blessings to you all and praying for this young man to have found God and Christ in his life.
This is so nice to see a civil discourse between two people genuinely sharing their own points of view with each other. And there's no blue haired person claiming victim status, throwing a fit, cussing and calling the other person a fascious. Those were the good old days
I loved the fact that Cliffe doesn't force his beliefs onto others. He discusses his beliefs and reasons why he believes what he thinks but maintains that everyone has a right to choose their beliefs. He educates and informs without forcing people to choose. As a Christian, I believe that who God is should be portrayed through me because I was made in the image of God. Someone once asked me how I can be happy most of the time and my response was, "I am loved by God, I am the image of God".
I so want to meet this young man today. He came to learn. I am 100% sure that he has found Christ. I am so sure. He is too much of a seeker not to find. May Yahweh protect his mind and quicken him.
Why Christ? Why not Muhammed? Your religion, or lack thereof, is in 99% of all cases the result of your parents' religion and the country or culture you were born into.
@@HereComesThe-Sunwell can you think of a better alternative? going to heaven and living in happiness for believing in Jesus, or going to hell and being eternally dead for not believing in Jesus? if there was no afterlife then what would you prefer?
@Markus73Sweden Mainly because Christianity started in the Middle East and traveled to every major country on earth, and billions of people through history have determined that they believe it to be true. It has some to do with culture, but if there was no truth to it, it would have died off a very long time ago. Do you not agree? Why do people still believe it if there is nothing to it whatsoever?
Man I absolutely love this young gentleman's pure honest and amount of respect in this questioning and search for truth. I really wish we had more like him!!!!
I studied biology years ago. In many of my classes I was amazed at the complexity of everything. Cell biology is amazing. Biochemistry is complex and amazing. Genetics is mind blowing. Life is too complex to have just randomly happened imo.
@@krisdc4053 I mean it as an answer to "life is too complex to have just randomly happened". I agree that you can do some mental gymnastics and interpret the Bible in a way that doesn't contradict evolution
I like the explanation that creation is proof of a creator just like a building is proof of a builder. If you see a building, you know there’s a builder and you don’t doubt it for a second.
That's really the worst possible argument... It's like "trees are proof of Tree's builders" and "Rocks are proof of rock's builders". Universe is not a creation, it's the result of a process. Calling something "creation" doesn't automatically assigns a creator to it.
@@ftfarias15 you are right that it would be sensible to assign trees and rocks dont have a "trees and rock's builders" per se but acKsUalLy(🤓) I might argue that god didnt probably hammer the ground until rocks formed, but rather he made rules of how the universe should operate. These rules are what allowed very complex processes like photosynthesis to occur EXACTLY the way it does and ultimately lead to the formation of trees and rocks EXACTLY as we know it IN CONCLUSION, the other guy was talking about buildings being a sign of the builder in the way that the builder is physically present, physically making the building, but with god being well... God, he would have been a little less simple with the creation process
@@mrxater9010 Sure, the theist will argue “God wrote the laws of physics”, so he is indirectly the creator of everything. But that is also a empty argument, for many reasons: 1. Premisse: “Complex process can’t exists without a creator.” Why? There are many complex processes generated from very simple rules. Chaos generators like (Zˆ2 +c) or x[t+1] = 4x[t]*(1-x[t]) creates very complex in nature without any “creator” 2. What is the diference between a universe without a creator and a universe with a creator? Please give me a list of characteristics of created things and uncreated things. If you just say “everything is created”, how can you distinguish both? 3. If the rules needs a creator, how defined God’s rules? God is good, omnipresent, omnipotent, can’t overrule free will, can’t lie, etc… So we need a “God’s Creator” to create God with all his properties, right? If you say “God just is”, why can’t I just say “Nature just is” too? 4. Saying “X occurs EXACTLY the way it does”… Ok, how else it could happen? Like, that’s kind of say A=A… Yes, I agree, but what is the argument? Suppose the photosynthesis in an alternative world happens with different reactions. So what? What does that prove? If the rules are different, things would be different and.. ??? If you check for exemple the process of blood clotting, or coagulation, it’s VERY ineffective, with lots of unnecessary steps. Also different animals have different reactions…
Life is not a building. False analogy its saying theres a thing built everything has a builder. Its taking a conclusion about one thing and generalising to unrelated things Not to mention science has plausible mechanisms for how life evolved and there is enough science knows about the origin of life to conclude a god isnt needed. So where does the god fit in.
@@ftfarias15 Oh hi there, I see that you have some good points, but I have something to say about them. *number one: premise* Where did the Mandelbrot equation and that iteration equation (that I don't know its name for some reason) originate from? Math. Where did we get visual representations for their results? Computers. Who made Math and Computers? We did (but the case of math is more complicated). So how did we get stuff like Mandelbrot? We invented axioms for math (the presupposed initial conditions) as well as rules for how objects in math must interact with each other. The Mandelbrot visualizer relies on the complex plane, which relies on the assumption that you can sqrt -1. See how a "creator" can change the rules and turn Yˆ2 +c into just another graph. I understand that I did not explain this properly enough for the sake of space (there's 3 more points to explain). If you insist on me providing a better explanation, I will get on with it. *number two: alternate universes* Honestly, I don't have an entirely separate universe at hand to answer your question. In fact, that's impossible at the moment. Too many resources required. The best thing we can mass produce is mathematical universes and I'm not using that. There has been very good attempts by supercomputers to simulate our universe. Here they are: go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA187961260&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=00280836&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=anon%7Ea4cd3d68&aty=open-web-entry th-cam.com/video/UlbndcHtdPw/w-d-xo.html Perhaps these supercomputers can give us the AU manpower to answer this question. Personally I don't know but if you insist, I can give a deeper look into it. *number three: is god to be or is god not to be* The ultimate question: is god just is or is nature just is? well... AcKsUalLy ☝🤓 According to scientific consensus, nature was created! it all began in the big bang so the actual question is whether God just is or whether the singularity at the centre of the universe just is. I need to know if we're on the same page on this particular question so that I move on to number 4 (its gonna be fun)
@@JB-zd8gv-- Matthew 25:41 gives us the answer. Revelation 12:9 supports that answer. First Book of the NT (New Testament) & last Book of the NT agree.
I'm curious why you said Cliffe showed patience. I think they were both genuine and respectful, which is what we all need modeled for us, but Cliffe spoke most of the time (to be expected, since it was his event) and the kid never once acted in a way that would require tolerance of any kind. I know communication gets tangled when we can't use our bodies as part of it, but know that my question comes with respect. I just found your word choice interesting and want to know more.
Wow! Amazing! This was the most peaceful and respectful debate I've ever seen, referring to both sides. I'm always so impressed with how Biblically educated Cliff is. And I'm equally as impressed with how genuine the young man's questions were. Excellent, gentlemen! And I pray with all my heart that this young man's heart and mind was opened up to start receiving God that day. 🙏🙏🙏
Yahweh isn't our judge, we are our own judge. The world we are within doesn't come from a single beeing, it comes from 13 souls, souls like you and me, and these where never created. The soul can't ever be created or destroyed
@@tenkid840901 of course, NON-living, NON-intelligent matter produced living, intelligent beings LOL. Brother, it takes WAAAAAAY more "faith" to believe that MADNESS rather than to believe in OUR INTELLIGENT, LIVING CREATOR! - paintings = a Painter - buildings = a Builder - design = a Designer - DNA = a Programmer - creation = a Creator - life from life - consciousness from consciousness - intelligence from intelligence - morality from morality - emotion from emotion - free will from free will ...sooo simple a child can understand! ...wake up dude!
@@fabianlindberg7051 Bunch of mumbo jumbo… Keep wasting your time on the science fiction & INSANITY of atheism / evolution lol Of course, NON-living, NON-intelligent matter produced living, intelligent beings LOL. Better repent, your clock is tickin'... ... ...
@@JESUS--NEVER--tAPPEDthe fact that counter intuitive things exist invalidates your point just because something is plausible doesn’t mean it’s true we have seen science do marvelous things and explained way more than religious thought could’ve ever done
I can simply answer that young man’s question on life. He said, given the right materials in the right order at the right time, there could possibly bring life BUT I say, not so because go to a morgue where you have everything you need to have life but that body is dead, not functioning so, why not? Because there’s no life, and only God Himself can bring life. God creates all living things.
The agnostics came looking for intelectual knowledge for the existence of God. The mere fact that he was asking leads me to believe that he wanted a reason to believe. It his opening lines( the agnostic) states that he envies Cliff es faith. I wonder if this young man ever gave his life to Jesus Christ?
@@goranmilic442 , the evidence is found in the Bible. It is for you to search your heart, mind and soul for faith in this evidence. Keep watching Cliffes’ videos.
@@goranmilic442have you honestly searched for the existence of God? You only need to answer this to yourself. I searched and I found. We all have to ask ourselves what happens when our light goes out. “Man” has been asking this since the beginning.
@@goranmilic442 It might seem silly but ask Him. Just take a moment to ask God to reveal Himself to you, and He will in His time. He did to me and changed my life. The Bible is also the Living Word of God. I would suggest reading the book of John in the Bible. If you seek the Lord, He will meet you wherever you are. It does not matter what you have ever done, Jesus forgives you and wants you to seek Him. God bless!
Hmm.. Not exactly. I don't think that this young man believes he is his own God. More like believing in in his abilities and judgement to make the necessary decisions and actions in his life whether the goal is success, happiness or anything else really. God has created man in his own image. So believing in oneself does not exactly contradict that there is no God or that they believe they are God, except if that was his clear intention and answer, which in this case was not.
There is one big misconception of Christians, they think souls where created, they where not, the soul is an eternal authority, it has no beginning and no end.@@maria.q99
Why not find reasonable evidence of a god? That's all it'd take for the majority of non-believers (at least the ones already aware of Christianity, which is nearly all of the western world, and quite a few elsewhere too). I think the rise of non-belief is just people finally waking up to realize (a) the internet gave us rock-solid evidence of every true idea, but (b) mysteriously absent from the list is reasonable evidence of a god.
Jesus should have given all of his disciples a copy of the Bible before leaving. Preferably the new King James Version since that is the most accurate translation.
@@zDefaultX_quit So do you agree we shouldn't believe in a god? * truth is the set of facts about reality * evidence is our only reliable way of knowing truth * the strategy of relying on evidence for form beliefs is basically what science is * you've said we can't find god in science -- that essentially means we have no evidence a god exists; *zero detections of a god in reality.* * so then logically we shouldn't believe in a god -- we have no good reason to think it's true.
when I was younger I considered myself agnostic because I never grew up with any education about Jesus, God, or any religion at that matter. I also have always had chronic depression my entire life. being educated about God and Jesus is the most important thing in this life. it saves me.
What was created? We know pretty well today how planets and stars are formed and they were hardly created by a higher force. That leaves universe, but we do not know that universe was created. It might always have existed. In fact, I find that idea more likely than the idea of an intelligent designer.
Great Video! Thx for sharing! Cliff is really good in keeping the line of thought and keep track of what he said. He is also able to explain complex questions quite easily. I was impressed 🙏
With all his explanations, there is one main problem …… still ……. Prove god actually exists. He still makes the rash assumption that said god is eternal. If that’s true, then why is it not possible the universe is eternal? Not a single one of these apologists has been capable of providing sufficient evidence that said god does in fact exist.
Energy is neither created or destroyed. It just is. God is the energy, He just is. Existence of energy proves it's possible for God to exist. If there is an example of perpetuity, eternity, then that comes from something unable to be created or destroyed.
@@ImMyBeloveds_HeIsMine Prove your god actually exists AND that it is energy. The existence of energy does not prove your magical being and more than rainbows prove a leprechaun with a pot of gold. You’re delusional.
Science is man trying to understand his environment. science is what man uses to carryout the two tasks God gave Adam and Eve 1) name everything and 2) take care of the garden.
So what? 100 years ago science couldn't transplant a heart from a recently deceased person into a dying person and prolong their life. Now it's fairly commonplace. 200 years ago the fastest you could travel depended on how fast your horse was, now we travel globally at near sonic speeds.
The most powerful thing, I as a teenager already have the noggin knowledge cliffe presents, I already have the facts, it tells me that even a teenager can use the same evidential information to proclaim the gospel, amazing!
I’m learning and embarking on finally being baptized in the orthodox faith but I really appreciate this man a lot. Very intelligent and open to talking to anyone.
Cliffe has no evidence that order in the universe (natural law) exists because of an intelligent designer. He has no evidence that proves a designer has ANYTHING to do with the universe. I can confidently claim that because there is 1. Natural law- everything that happens is due to natural law (whether or not we like the end product). 2. Even IF there were a god there’s No Way to prove its existence and that it had Anything to do with the “big bang”. So most of what Cliffe preaches is ignorance because he can’t know the mind of god and he’s simply making assumptions. There is Nothing in nature that prevents life evolving from inanimate matter. And if there is anyone who would know it would be physicists who study nature’s characteristics. For example, in 1953 Urey and Miller produced the basic building blocks of life in a glass bowl. They filled the bowl with gases they believed existed on Earth before any life. All it took was some energy source to give the molecules the energy to evolve. Now that happened 3 billion years ago. A timeframe most people can’t even imagine. Anything natural is possible so long as there’s a source of energy. Back then there weee at least 3 sources of energy. 1. The Sun. 2. geothermal heat from Earth’s core. 3. Electrical discharges in Earth’s atmosphere. So the whole god/supernatural story is fake.
Question: Who "produced the basic building blocks of life in a glass bowl 1953"? Who "filled the bowl with gases they believed existed on Earth before any life"?
first sentence. shows how you misunderstood is point completely lol you gotta watch the video again man, your following logic, whcihh is good obviously but your arguing against a point that he didn't exactly make so its kind of a waste
Mother Teresa was Not motivated by love. She was motivated by a biblical (& church) doctrine that “suffering cleanses the soul”. The people she cared for she made them purposely suffer before dying. It’s a fact reported by other sources that she denied them necessary medical services and drugs. She made sure they got something to eat and a roof over their head but she believed she was saving souls (which doesn’t actually exist). And Cliffe’s reasons for there being a god is moronic. First of all he clearly states that his conclusions “are based upon personal experience”. Well, he must be pretty “inexperienced” because Nothing that he names proves anything. Take Order as an example. He has No idea how everything began. And definitely far less than scientists. And thus far, with a few science betrayals, there are virtually No scientists that proposes how everything began. But what they do know is there is No necessary god. That everything happened and from the very beginning the ONLY processes involved were NATURAL LAWS!! They might not know what the “spark” was as of yet but at least they’re looking for evidence that can be “proven”. No matter how far Cliffe goes with god, he can’t present ANY evidence that god was the cause. For one thing, he and all apologists argue that god exists “outside the natural realm”. With that being the case there’d be no way to prove there is a god because our instruments can only measure real and material things. There is no way to look beyond the natural universe. “ORDER” also does prove any god because that the same as saying that inanimate matter can’t evolve and NO apologist can prove that. Look at the Urey experiment in 1953. Inanimate matter with the introduction of electricity produced amino acids… the building blocks of life. Which means it is more probable that life emerged from non life by a simple material process. And that was billions of years ago before there was any life on Earrh. My point being… Cliffe is a true believer. He’s cemented his very existence on their being a god. And I suspect I know the Real reason he believes. And it’s the same reason most other supposedly intelligent people agree with him. Their simply too afraid to die !! And the New Testament tells those fearful people , don’t worry just believe in Jesus and he’ll see you in some paradise!! 🤣 I often wonder if there should be a test for voting in American. And the test structured in such a way that people took high school science classes. Because there are Millions of people that seem completely ignorant of the real world and instead living in some delusion. Read: 1 Corinthians 11:13. It’s a Bible passage that basically tells people to “grow up” !!
What's most plausible is that we evolved on a planet over billions of years. It is not plausible however, that a god did it. As there would be evidence.
But even your plausibility is nothing but guessing because you lack of information on humanity's background. You have no idea what created such a vaste and complex universe. Science can not help you with it because a fundamentale rule about science is experimenting alongside evidence. Without both, you have 100% chance of making a mistake. With atheism comes no morality, just go and see the state of Philadelphia for your mother's sake on youtube.
Because love comes from God. God is the originator of love. We care about each other because it's the connection that God puts between human beings because he puts life in us and that same love generated by God is the same love we're called to share for one another. We love because of God not in spite of him. There's no life without God just a bunch of mannequins molded by the soil of the Earth. God breathed life into us so that we may come to life. Once that life leaves us we are no longer alive. That's why when the body can no longer function the host leaves the body and returns to God because it's his life we were living. It was never ours to keep. God created life to share in the love and as his co creators we spread his love throughout the world. That's why we say God is everywhere. Atheists ask where is God but Atheists fail to see that God is in us for us always and forever until the day our bodies give way and his spirit returns to him. But if you don't get it, you don't get it.
@@yrxsx because God is the source of love. We don't create the love in us. The love is already there. There are many who are filled with hate only because they reject the love that's been instilled in them from the beginning. Every creation is brought about by love. This is why fornication is such a sin because it is not what God intended. God intended for there to be love between one man and one woman to procreate that love into another human being. These days there's little of that and that's why the world is so corrupt today. If you do not have God you do not have love for love comes from God. If you say you have love but do not know God you are a liar. It's written in scripture
I love how this is such a civil and humane discussion between two intelligent individuals. I wish people could be more like this nowadays. I hope this young man got answers to his questions ❤ 🙏🏼
Before death, you will never get proof that God exists, just as you will never get proof that he does not exist. This argument was over the possibility of God's existence and stacking arguments in his favor
It wasn't meant to prove, it was meant to support the notion of possible existence of God,,but we both know you weren't here seeking to believe but to patronize 😅
Cliffe's arguments are all illogical, and believers should care about that. 1. We know for a fact order can arise naturally, without a mind. (Hundreds of scientific papers worth of evidence proving this can be found in the references "evolution" on Wikipedia if you need reasonable evidence proving this is true. An even simpler way is by seeing videos like "mari/o" (here on TH-cam) where the programmer just simulates evolution and the artificial intelligence improves without intelligent guidance, so that by the end the AI races through the Super Mario level faster than most humans.) 2. Cliffe's rule rules out an uncaused living god. (Such a god, by Cliffe's own "life comes from life" argument, would need to be caused by life.) 3. Nobody has evidence of objective moral values. Not one. So we don't know they exist. If we did know they exist, does Cliffe provide evidence of a god being the best explanation? No. So his argument here is saying two things are true back-to-back, *neither with evidence.* (The things being (a) objective morality exists, and (b) if it does it's best explained by a god.) 4. Cliffe just says for no reason love isn't just an emotion. There isn't even really an argument argued here if you pay attention; he's just saying he disagrees, on no basis; without evidence. In fact, wow does his explanation (later in the vid) about love get offensive. Holy crap. It's like he doesn't understand the purpose of love *while literally having described the purpose of love!* Love arose randomly. Love stuck around (as an instinct caused by genes) generation to generation because of the simple fact that: *what tribe is going to thrive more? The one with love or without it?* Well that includes people being willing to try to help their loved ones survive illnesses like leukemia (because sometimes that will succeed, and the tribe will have more people as a result, and thrive better as a result -- far better than the alternate tribe that constantly betrays its own members, right?) Anyone who thinks this through sees it. I think Cliffe has probably had it explain to him. Likely multiple times. But well...he makes money preaching so he doesn't have a strong motivation to be truthful.
@@yrxsx Nobody. It was mindless and therefore not really AI until the process of evolution acted on it. The process of evolution isn't a "who" so your question is malformed.
@@yrxsx I'm a game designer. In my 30s I worked on a game which, among other things, _simulated rocks._ So now either (A) you agree with me that someone programming a simulation has *no bearing whatsoever* on how that thing was caused in real life or (B) you think all rocks are made by 30-something white male game designers named Mike. Which is it? But I was correct when I told you the cause of the AI was just the mindless process of evolution. * the programmer created a simulation * it also created a completely mindless system for randomly pushing buttons (so it wasn't AI). * so the only cause of intelligence was the unintelligent process of evolution You saw it yourself. (You...did watch it, yeah?)
@@majmage you cannot possibly associate yourself with divine powers as a 30 years old programmer, so obviously you do not have a saying on how rocks are created in real life. But even your first premise, does not disproof the concept of a creator. Evolution is the consequence of creation itself, it is an independent process that as you said learned by itself. But did life just happened to be or was it the consequence of the right envinroment? And the environment which permitted life just happened to be or was it a consequence of the Universe's development? We can apply this reasoning to the AI improvement which, until proven contrary, was made reality thanks to a device developed by an human being. Without the programmer itself, there wouldn't be no simulation whatsoever. Ultimately, without a cause there cannot be a consequence. If you keep at it, you need to eventually find a "causeless cause" in the great scheme of things and that is called God.
People were so much better in this era. What a respectful conversation and regarding something worth speaking about. Two people on 2 different spectrums yet they have respect for each other Today people would be screaming at each other and throwing tantrums over something that shouldn’t even be debated about
@orthodoxbasics another dumas ignorant. If you put god responsible for anything without first presenting evidence of its existence, then you are not showing evidence for its existence. You are just showing your ignorance.
@orthodoxbasics no, basically every theists answer for evidence of god is "look at the world." Not knowing how everything came to be, and putting their god responsible, it's not evidence of god it's evidence of their ignorance.
@@JuanManuel-ep8do Evidence is information or facts that support a claim or argument, while proof is evidence that establishes a claim as true beyond a reasonable doubt. In other words, evidence is used to build a case or support a hypothesis, while proof is the final confirmation that the claim is true. Proof is typically stronger and more definitive than evidence.
I love the depth of intellectual debate between these 2. No animosity but question and answer, no hostility but probing and searching for the truth such as it may be
Both men are so well spoken. The debate between these 2 gentlemen is actually very intelligent, shows both sides considering each others opinions and beliefs. Asking for clarification and description. Beautiful video, thanks!
An open minded young man in an interesting and intelligent debate is priceless! Fair play to the two men in the debate and everyone else who is there with an open mind 💙
I've never seen such an amazing respectful and intelectually honest debate.
it wasnt a debate, it was a class haha
@@endryl08 I mean but at least the agnostic guy was coming to a conversation to seek and understand the other side of the coin.
Normally when you talk to agnostic or atheist they aren't willing to do that.
@endryl08 not a class outside college on sidewalks. Just shows how much society has fallen kods today couldn't handle a conversation like this
Truly
Do you think the universe is well designed? Not to me, with tsunamis, earthquakes , malaria
asteroids that have done much damage to life on this earth, bone cancer, super nova stars
exploding killing all life in their blast zone. Then we live in an ecosystem one of kill or be killed,
eat or be eaten! if there is a god of the bible, is clearly a spiteful psychopath.
College kids in the late 90s or early 2000s were way more intelligent than what colleges are putting out today.
The incoming raw material is much lower quality.
I think "intelligence" is the key. I'm not convinced that the issue is intelligence. I think they lack the ability to think rationally.
And I think the educational (or not so educational) schooling from pre-school thru college is more about indoctrination than critical thinking and education. I see this in “person on the street” dialogue and questions. It’s as if they don’t know history (or a lie of history), geography and simple math (plus ,ore). But they can list all of the pronouns available.
No, Christian or agnostic intelligence does not decline in 20 years in a population. The culture? The moral fabric? The structure and content of institutions of higher learning? The integrity of the family? Yes those can change in that period. Thomas Sowell may even have supportive evidence for access to a variety of cultures being linked to intelligence scores, but it is not the only variate. So now the question remains that Snowden, Musk, Aquinas, Theresa, Ghandi, Sowell, JP the second, Lincoln, Poutier all ask “What are you going to do about it?”
This just confirms how much the system failed us, like when that guy said "Would it be more honest if I said I believe in me" and everyone started nodding l, and agreeing with him that frightened me, honestly because it's like I saw a glimpse of how kids are the way they are now, They believe in themselves now way to much! And like Cliff said to the point where "Its Embarrassing" and it is!!. But my Bar for society will never fall and I will keep my faith, and help my generation and people in general anyway I can!. 🙏🏾
Agnostic guy was me. “I envy your faith.” Where it all starts. Humility.
Yes, humility! You can't see God without it.
how are you today? did this conversation have an impact on you afterwards? loved your ability to have a respectful and constructive conversation and actually wanting to listen to his responses!
@@Runningtaco this was me probably 15 years ago. Very slow walk forward at the beginning but have really immersed in it in the past 2 years. Cliff plants the seeds. Like the man said in Mar 9, I believe, but Lord, help me in my unbelief. I believe content like this answers that prayer. And it also helps me give a defense of the hope I have in me, as Peter instructed.
@@jzmooloo Lack of humility can be linked to specific psychological conditions, it can also arise from personality traits, social influences, and situational factors. It’s essential to approach this topic with nuance, as humility can vary across contexts and individuals. It has nothing to do with a GOD OR GODS. You can't see God without it. is Begging the Question !
@@Alma-RFChannel the mental gymnastics to prove something that no one has been able to prove yet is truly astounding, wouldn't you agree? To speak with absolute truth as if the story written in a book has been proven to be the absolute truth is kind of naive to me.
So if life is created by an intelligent design...then who created that intelligent designer? 😂 🤦
Hats of for that young man being sceptic, respectful and articulate at the same time. That’s hella rare these days.
This video was out years ago
that's because this video is not from These days. it's from the days when I was still in elementary school probably
Nick?
I was born in a wealthy and religious hindu family. I had health issues and bad behavior of anger and watching porn and mastarbute. My family was worried for me. They took me to many places like temples and hindu religious places, prayed to hindu gods and did rituals like puja etc, but nothing worked. No hindu gods helped. Then an exhindu converted to Christian came and shared her family's Testimony and invited me to Christ. Her Testimony moved my heart, so i went to her pentecostal church and what I experienced there changed my perspective towards Christianity forever. I started attending church meetings, and Jesus delivered me from all problems. I gave my life to Jesus. He showed me that He exists and cares for me.. and Jesus cares for you too. Jesus loves you because He created you ❤
Thank you for sharing your story. It gives me hope for my hindu friend who I care about deeply.
@@priyanshu_preaches Be blessed and highly favored. ❤️
Amen
Ok, I get it now, jesus was not able to stop some kids from getting raped, kidnapped, and murdered because he was too busy stopping you from watching porn and choking the chicken 😂😂😂😂
WOW! JUST WOW!
So jesus decided to stop you from watching porn and choking the chicken rather than saving kids from molestation 😂😂😂😂😂
Remember when people who disgareed still knew how to talk to one another politely?
It's almost as if "don't talk about politics or religion" was a bad idea that put people out of practice.
So true. You look at these types of events in college campuses today and it's shockingly different.
We absolutely MUST discuss politics and religion. Right now we're at a point where I'm afraid to lose my job if I am to talk about it.
@HandledToaster2
It is true of what you say. We are the old
guys and have experience with Almighty
God. We do not argue, for all we do is
share. Today, you might not be ready, but there are many days in the year,and
someone else might be the right person
to talk to you. It will always be God's will. AMEN
When the conversations stop thats when things get how they are
The agnostic guy spoke so well that this sounds like a movie
Edit: apparently people are thinking I’m siding with the agnostic. I’m a Christian who agrees with Cliffe.
My comment here is stating that the agnostic kid spoke with a refined sense of diction, to the point that it felt like I’m watching a movie. I don’t think he had a good argument.
Jesus Christ is the Way, Truth, and Life, no one comes to the Father without the Son, in the Bible, which is before the quran, Jesus very clearly claimed to be God, and by the way He lived, died, and resurrected, even doubting Thomas, who said he would never believe until he touched Jesus' wrist and thrust his hand into His side, because of the nails on His wrist, and the spear to His side, and Jesus appeared to the disciples after His resurrection, and Thomas was there, and Jesus told Thomas to touch His wrist and His side and believe, and Thomas did it, and believed, but "Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29.
@@Godtrulylovesyouall copy and paste?
Never forget Romans 10:13 - Everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord SHALL be saved. No one but Jesus knows who is saved and His mercy is endless
@@9856CB don’t forget the rest of the Bible. It’s all important.
He seriously was very well spoken. It's refreshing to hear actual, intellectual conversations with solid points made and solid questions asked on both sides. I think the art of having a good conversation is a dying art nowadays.
I really liked this debate. Both very respectful and well spoken. Thanks for sharing.
yes, sad that this is rare today.
Fr
ppl today would interrupt you if they feel they’re getting triggered while someone answering their question XD
I have mad respect for the man who took part in the debate. For one, he came seeking reasonable answers, not just to argue. He stayed composed and respectful the whole time. He was honest, honest in a way that still wasn’t rude.
The fact that he could honestly say he believes he’s never felt love and that he doesn’t feel guilt but regret I believe helped the debate progress in a way that he could find answers that would help him find, or at least look for Jesus.
We need more people willing to debate about sensitive topics without blowing up on the other person.
What is your reason for believing that Jesus ever really existed in the first place?
@@bibleburner8426 While there is quite a bit of evidence that proves Jesus’s existence, a big part of my belief is my faith. No one can see Jesus so naturally it’d be hard to believe he exists since most people need confirmation with their eyes and find it hard to trust a Bible that is so old and thus supposedly “outdated”. Now while I can’t see God physically, I can see how his presence in my life has brought about changes in it. In the end though, telling you my reason for believing, isn’t gonna suddenly make you believe. If you really care to find out, you should do some digging of your own, read the Bible, see how those who truly have Christ in them act, and see if changes also appear in your life after all of it.
@bibleburner8426 a crap ton of historical evidence. Even atheist historians agree Jesus did exist. The issue isn't did Jesus exist, the issue for most atheist historians is the miracles he did, and his claim to divinity. That's where historians are divided between believers and non believers
@@TubularBellsRequiem6531 For evidence to be considered "historical", it has to be verifiable. We have zero evidence for Jesus' existence that is verifiable. We have guesses. That's what historians offer...guesses.
@bibleburner8426 I'm not too well studied yet as I'm pretty new, but there's like 5,000 something Greek manuscripts about Jesus and the Gospels. If that's not evidence then idk what is to you
I can’t describe how much I appreciate a conversation like this. 2 people talking, not at each other, but with each other. Listening, understanding, wanting an answer, not wanting to be right. We need more of this
As a person who grew up Agnostic, but now a Christian, I can say that the guy was not being rude whatsoever. I love how he was genuinely curious and wanted to know. He was super well-spoken. Cliff is so anointed with the Holy Spirit!!! His response to these questions are so good!!
So true! That's the thing. I do believe faith is a good thing, but not everyone has it. I identify a lot with this man. I would love to believe, but I'm not there quite yet
This college guy is genuine.. I envy him.. May God touch him.. God bless Cliff
yes. that is my observation too.
Many people debate by bad intentions
they already knew and can assess it, yet they only ask to show their wanting for recognition.
I've listened to a lot of Cliffe's arguments and know that he is pretty consistent. He makes these same points over and over. What changes the pitch in the videos has been the person he's interacted with. This guy and his way of communicating helped facilitate the way Cliffe could get into his point and then move to the next point without fighting. They both were extremely respectful to each other. In those kinds of situations, i believe Cliffe has the high ground.
Problem is Cliffe in these kinds of videos doesn't have right opponent.
@@goranmilic442 it wouldn't matter
I don't think anyone else sees this as a contest .
I see two men having an intelligent conversation with mutual respect for each other's opinion
@@calmnrelaxed Explain.
@@goranmilic442 there no argument that can refute God's existence. Only arguments that highlight choices (whether or not you believe He exists). Cliffe is GREAT at highlighting the choice for theism.
I have to hand it to the college kid for his honesty. That was probably the most intelligent, interesting dialog I've heard given for the proof of God.
At 45, as a combat veteran, I hit what felt like the lowest point in my life. Overcome with sorrow, I prayed one night, giving it all to God. In that moment, I felt His comforting presence, whispering, "It's okay to fall apart, I’ve got you." Just three weeks later, my life began to change through the incredible kindness of Michael Jtone Leshkevich. His generosity led me to an amazing business opportunity that transformed my life. Now, I find real peace in using my finances to serve God. God’s promises are true-never give up. This journey with Michael has been nothing short of a miracle. .......
I almost believed you until you used God to sell shit! Typical ploy, he's using you guys,this makes me sick!
@@Mary-cr9jqIf you don't have the Heart of the Holy Spirit you will not understand the meaning of giving this life to God. Have a blessed day!
@@Mary-x7j He never said that he used God to sell stuff. He said that someone helped lead him to a business opportunity, *then* he's using his finances to serve God, whether it be tithing or whatever else. Him having a business opportunity, and him serving God with his finances are two completely different things in his story.
@@Mary-cr9jq The fact this misinformed comment has 11 likes genuinely terrifies me for what's to come. Man, everyone who liked this is probably screwed when it comes to eternal life with Jesus.
This young man is so smart. He has my respect for his honesty and his questions that were to the point.
Gone are the days when two people can have a respectful, honest discussion over disagreements. Great job guys!!
Well I think we are seeing it here ?
@@KyleSilk-v1p it happened years ago...
@@jemo7059 how many ?
I had a bad stroke in Jan. of 2023. In the time since then laying in bed and unable to walk I've come to know God more than ever...and Im thankful to have had the opportunity to experience this closeness to my maker!
God Bless praying for you and your recovery!
I’ve had 20 years of failed back surgeries and live in daily/hourly pain. I rely of God and keep praying for relief. I’ll pray for you also🙏🏻
Then my friend, you have an exciting journey with Him! You believe in Jesus Christ? Then you will be able to walk again!
Read John and then Acts. Believe Steven, your faith will make you well!
curious how your god doesn't heal you like it promises. Christians find they must lie and make excuses for their cult's failure.
Maybe God put you to rest because it was the only way you would listen to him.❤❤
Extremely wonderful conversation between this student and Cliffe.. Cliffe surely is a true warrior for the cause of Christ. Blessings to you all and praying for this young man to have found God and Christ in his life.
This is so nice to see a civil discourse between two people genuinely sharing their own points of view with each other. And there's no blue haired person claiming victim status, throwing a fit, cussing and calling the other person a fascious. Those were the good old days
I loved the fact that Cliffe doesn't force his beliefs onto others. He discusses his beliefs and reasons why he believes what he thinks but maintains that everyone has a right to choose their beliefs. He educates and informs without forcing people to choose. As a Christian, I believe that who God is should be portrayed through me because I was made in the image of God. Someone once asked me how I can be happy most of the time and my response was, "I am loved by God, I am the image of God".
Putting this as a perpetual reminder of how to deal with tough questions patiently and rationally.
I so want to meet this young man today. He came to learn.
I am 100% sure that he has found Christ. I am so sure.
He is too much of a seeker not to find. May Yahweh protect his mind and quicken him.
Why Christ? Why not Muhammed? Your religion, or lack thereof, is in 99% of all cases the result of your parents' religion and the country or culture you were born into.
@@Markus73SwedenTotally agree.
Please study the gospel of John, and then you might think differently.
@@HereComesThe-Sunwell can you think of a better alternative? going to heaven and living in happiness for believing in Jesus, or going to hell and being eternally dead for not believing in Jesus? if there was no afterlife then what would you prefer?
@Markus73Sweden Mainly because Christianity started in the Middle East and traveled to every major country on earth, and billions of people through history have determined that they believe it to be true. It has some to do with culture, but if there was no truth to it, it would have died off a very long time ago. Do you not agree? Why do people still believe it if there is nothing to it whatsoever?
@@HereComesThe-Sun I experience God in my life everyday.
Great debate! I’m very impressed by how politely they discussed. No interruptions, no disrespect.
I love how respectful and educated this debate is
Man I absolutely love this young gentleman's pure honest and amount of respect in this questioning and search for truth. I really wish we had more like him!!!!
I like this young man who was polite and really there to listen. True humble. May God touch his heart.
This young man claims he has never felt guilt but only regret. I wonder if he has ever said ' I'm Sorry'.
Astounded by the quality of this conversation, reflective, honest, respectful… how lovely!
I love these real debates. No animosity, just a true desire to understand.
I studied biology years ago. In many of my classes I was amazed at the complexity of everything. Cell biology is amazing. Biochemistry is complex and amazing. Genetics is mind blowing. Life is too complex to have just randomly happened imo.
Agreed
and yet it did.
you're an example of why one should not use inductive reasoning in determining life choices.
Try to study theory of evolution
@@staubsauger1 evolution is not anti -christian ,if thats what you are trying to say.
@@krisdc4053 I mean it as an answer to "life is too complex to have just randomly happened". I agree that you can do some mental gymnastics and interpret the Bible in a way that doesn't contradict evolution
I like the explanation that creation is proof of a creator just like a building is proof of a builder. If you see a building, you know there’s a builder and you don’t doubt it for a second.
That's really the worst possible argument... It's like "trees are proof of Tree's builders" and "Rocks are proof of rock's builders". Universe is not a creation, it's the result of a process. Calling something "creation" doesn't automatically assigns a creator to it.
@@ftfarias15 you are right that it would be sensible to assign trees and rocks dont have a "trees and rock's builders" per se but acKsUalLy(🤓) I might argue that god didnt probably hammer the ground until rocks formed, but rather he made rules of how the universe should operate. These rules are what allowed very complex processes like photosynthesis to occur EXACTLY the way it does and ultimately lead to the formation of trees and rocks EXACTLY as we know it
IN CONCLUSION, the other guy was talking about buildings being a sign of the builder in the way that the builder is physically present, physically making the building, but with god being well... God, he would have been a little less simple with the creation process
@@mrxater9010 Sure, the theist will argue “God wrote the laws of physics”, so he is indirectly the creator of everything. But that is also a empty argument, for many reasons:
1. Premisse: “Complex process can’t exists without a creator.” Why? There are many complex processes generated from very simple rules. Chaos generators like (Zˆ2 +c) or x[t+1] = 4x[t]*(1-x[t]) creates very complex in nature without any “creator”
2. What is the diference between a universe without a creator and a universe with a creator? Please give me a list of characteristics of created things and uncreated things. If you just say “everything is created”, how can you distinguish both?
3. If the rules needs a creator, how defined God’s rules? God is good, omnipresent, omnipotent, can’t overrule free will, can’t lie, etc… So we need a “God’s Creator” to create God with all his properties, right? If you say “God just is”, why can’t I just say “Nature just is” too?
4. Saying “X occurs EXACTLY the way it does”… Ok, how else it could happen? Like, that’s kind of say A=A… Yes, I agree, but what is the argument? Suppose the photosynthesis in an alternative world happens with different reactions. So what? What does that prove? If the rules are different, things would be different and.. ??? If you check for exemple the process of blood clotting, or coagulation, it’s VERY ineffective, with lots of unnecessary steps. Also different animals have different reactions…
Life is not a building. False analogy its saying theres a thing built everything has a builder. Its taking a conclusion about one thing and generalising to unrelated things
Not to mention science has plausible mechanisms for how life evolved and there is enough science knows about the origin of life to conclude a god isnt needed. So where does the god fit in.
@@ftfarias15 Oh hi there, I see that you have some good points, but I have something to say about them.
*number one: premise*
Where did the Mandelbrot equation and that iteration equation (that I don't know its name for some reason) originate from? Math. Where did we get visual representations for their results? Computers. Who made Math and Computers? We did (but the case of math is more complicated). So how did we get stuff like Mandelbrot?
We invented axioms for math (the presupposed initial conditions) as well as rules for how objects in math must interact with each other. The Mandelbrot visualizer relies on the complex plane, which relies on the assumption that you can sqrt -1. See how a "creator" can change the rules and turn Yˆ2 +c into just another graph.
I understand that I did not explain this properly enough for the sake of space (there's 3 more points to explain). If you insist on me providing a better explanation, I will get on with it.
*number two: alternate universes*
Honestly, I don't have an entirely separate universe at hand to answer your question. In fact, that's impossible at the moment. Too many resources required. The best thing we can mass produce is mathematical universes and I'm not using that. There has been very good attempts by supercomputers to simulate our universe. Here they are:
go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA187961260&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=00280836&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=anon%7Ea4cd3d68&aty=open-web-entry
th-cam.com/video/UlbndcHtdPw/w-d-xo.html
Perhaps these supercomputers can give us the AU manpower to answer this question. Personally I don't know but if you insist, I can give a deeper look into it.
*number three: is god to be or is god not to be*
The ultimate question: is god just is or is nature just is?
well...
AcKsUalLy ☝🤓
According to scientific consensus, nature was created! it all began in the big bang
so the actual question is whether God just is or whether the singularity at the centre of the universe just is. I need to know if we're on the same page on this particular question so that I move on to number 4 (its gonna be fun)
Solid debate with George Costanza. Praise God.
🤣
Serenity Now.😅
I really love the way that this college student engaged with the conversation and was able to be well intentioned throughout.
Bless this student and I pray that God’s existence and Love are very real to him.
I admire Cliff's patients and I hope that the young man will hear the Holy Spirit and give his life to the only Creator GOD before it's too late.
Why did god create hell?
@@JB-zd8gv-- Matthew 25:41 gives us the answer. Revelation 12:9 supports that answer. First Book of the NT (New Testament) & last Book of the NT agree.
I'm curious why you said Cliffe showed patience. I think they were both genuine and respectful, which is what we all need modeled for us, but Cliffe spoke most of the time (to be expected, since it was his event) and the kid never once acted in a way that would require tolerance of any kind.
I know communication gets tangled when we can't use our bodies as part of it, but know that my question comes with respect. I just found your word choice interesting and want to know more.
Very nice answer Pastor Cliff is giving.
I prefer watching the older Give Me an Answer videos because the kids were so much more respectful and well spoken than today.
Wow! Amazing! This was the most peaceful and respectful debate I've ever seen, referring to both sides. I'm always so impressed with how Biblically educated Cliff is. And I'm equally as impressed with how genuine the young man's questions were. Excellent, gentlemen! And I pray with all my heart that this young man's heart and mind was opened up to start receiving God that day. 🙏🙏🙏
Love this.❤️ A proper honest conversation without being clouded by emotion and a lack of communication.
Nice explanation of Yahweh's insights for human race. Yahweh bless you Cliff 🙏💛🙌.
Yahweh isn't our judge, we are our own judge. The world we are within doesn't come from a single beeing, it comes from 13 souls, souls like you and me, and these where never created. The soul can't ever be created or destroyed
“Life only comes from pre-existing life”
- Louis Pasteur
…nuff said 💪
"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," - Stephen Hawking
@@tenkid840901 of course, NON-living, NON-intelligent matter produced living, intelligent beings LOL.
Brother, it takes WAAAAAAY more "faith" to believe that MADNESS rather than to believe in OUR INTELLIGENT, LIVING CREATOR!
- paintings = a Painter
- buildings = a Builder
- design = a Designer
- DNA = a Programmer
- creation = a Creator
- life from life
- consciousness from consciousness
- intelligence from intelligence
- morality from morality
- emotion from emotion
- free will from free will
...sooo simple a child can understand!
...wake up dude!
@@JESUS--NEVER--tAPPED Bunch of mumbo jumbo…
Keep wasting your time on a fictional character lol
@@fabianlindberg7051 Bunch of mumbo jumbo…
Keep wasting your time on the science fiction & INSANITY of atheism / evolution lol
Of course, NON-living, NON-intelligent matter produced living, intelligent beings LOL.
Better repent, your clock is tickin'... ... ...
@@JESUS--NEVER--tAPPEDthe fact that counter intuitive things exist invalidates your point
just because something is plausible doesn’t mean it’s true
we have seen science do marvelous things and explained way more than religious thought could’ve ever done
I can simply answer that young man’s question on life. He said, given the right materials in the right order at the right time, there could possibly bring life BUT I say, not so because go to a morgue where you have everything you need to have life but that body is dead, not functioning so, why not? Because there’s no life, and only God Himself can bring life. God creates all living things.
You have made a straw man and non sequitur fallacy in one comment. Congratulations...
The topic was creating the building blocks of life, not putting life back into something.
@@goranmilic442 A straw man. That is about all you can create without a designed creative force.
Someone got abiogenesis and Frankenstein mixed up.......
typical
@@johniii8400 No, natural laws are such that they allow life.
That guy asking questions brilliant. Great, thought out questions and self reflection. He also seemed to really listen to what Cliff said 👌🏼
"I’m blessed by your dedication to sharing God’s Word. This message was powerful and encouraging! 🙏"
The agnostics came looking for intelectual knowledge for the existence of God. The mere fact that he was asking leads me to believe that he wanted a reason to believe. It his opening lines( the agnostic) states that he envies Cliff es faith. I wonder if this young man ever gave his life to Jesus Christ?
Why not? I am an atheist and I would want God to exist, good and just. Only problem is there is no convincing evidence.
@@goranmilic442 , the evidence is found in the Bible. It is for you to search your heart, mind and soul for faith in this evidence. Keep watching Cliffes’ videos.
@@goranmilic442have you honestly searched for the existence of God? You only need to answer this to yourself. I searched and I found. We all have to ask ourselves what happens when our light goes out. “Man” has been asking this since the beginning.
@@9856CB How exactly do you search him?
@@goranmilic442 It might seem silly but ask Him. Just take a moment to ask God to reveal Himself to you, and He will in His time. He did to me and changed my life. The Bible is also the Living Word of God. I would suggest reading the book of John in the Bible. If you seek the Lord, He will meet you wherever you are. It does not matter what you have ever done, Jesus forgives you and wants you to seek Him. God bless!
#5
Everyone has a universal belief in someone or something...
He said, he believes in himself.
That was his answer. He is his own god.
So nobody has universal belief?
Hmm.. Not exactly. I don't think that this young man believes he is his own God.
More like believing in in his abilities and judgement to make the necessary decisions and actions in his life whether the goal is success, happiness or anything else really.
God has created man in his own image. So believing in oneself does not exactly contradict that there is no God or that they believe they are God, except if that was his clear intention and answer, which in this case was not.
There is one big misconception of Christians, they think souls where created, they where not, the soul is an eternal authority, it has no beginning and no end.@@maria.q99
Blessings! What an honor. May the LORD be praised forever everywhere.
That is the most intelligent conversation and debate ive ever watched. Such respect from both of them. 🙏☘️
That was not a debate. However, it was a very good mannered conversation.
I, for one, am happy to have seen it. Thankyou to all involved
Please pray for those who are lost souls to find Jesus Christ . I believe He waits for them Amen
Why not find reasonable evidence of a god? That's all it'd take for the majority of non-believers (at least the ones already aware of Christianity, which is nearly all of the western world, and quite a few elsewhere too). I think the rise of non-belief is just people finally waking up to realize (a) the internet gave us rock-solid evidence of every true idea, but (b) mysteriously absent from the list is reasonable evidence of a god.
Jesus should have given all of his disciples a copy of the Bible before leaving. Preferably the new King James Version since that is the most accurate translation.
@@tonygoodkind7858 why not?
@@tonygoodkind7858 you will not find god in science
@@zDefaultX_quit So do you agree we shouldn't believe in a god?
* truth is the set of facts about reality
* evidence is our only reliable way of knowing truth
* the strategy of relying on evidence for form beliefs is basically what science is
* you've said we can't find god in science -- that essentially means we have no evidence a god exists; *zero detections of a god in reality.*
* so then logically we shouldn't believe in a god -- we have no good reason to think it's true.
when I was younger I considered myself agnostic because I never grew up with any education about Jesus, God, or any religion at that matter. I also have always had chronic depression my entire life. being educated about God and Jesus is the most important thing in this life. it saves me.
6:56. Cliffe's answer should have been... "Where did the lightning strike and pool and enzymes come from?"
are u completely brainless? then the college kid s answer should have been where did the god come from
Agreed
@@alarga9686that ones easy to awnser tho, God is eternal and Not limited by time, space or matter
@@No-Wrestling-dragon-Dicks universe is eternal without limitations to space and time
I follow Cliffe and have watched this several times. He is an amazing apologist for our beliefs. ❤️
This is a really great conversation
in the flesh it was a civil conversation, in the Spirit it was war
Nothing cannot create something.
no one is claiming that
So no god
@@JB-zd8gvso yes God
@user-mt7cg1xw8g
then your god is nothing.
ok, got it.
What was created? We know pretty well today how planets and stars are formed and they were hardly created by a higher force. That leaves universe, but we do not know that universe was created. It might always have existed. In fact, I find that idea more likely than the idea of an intelligent designer.
6:00. Enter James tour
Bro this guy posed such good points and questions. Not gonna lie too, Cliffe is really good at explaining his point.
Thanks so much for your steadfast conviction to give a solid foundation for the gospel.
All credit to Cliffe Knechtle and Give Me An Answer!
Well said.
Salud to this man of God
Come back
to the
Lord Jesus Christ
for salvation.
The soul is it's own authority, we dont need salvation by someone else, we get salvation by waking up to the truth
All things from God- the creativity aspect is from God. So i create but the originality of creating is from God. So God is source
See how respectful they all were, God was there
Great Video! Thx for sharing! Cliff is really good in keeping the line of thought and keep track of what he said. He is also able to explain complex questions quite easily. I was impressed 🙏
Great clip. Cliff has a God given gift. It's hard to hold my attention sometimes. I get drowsy in church a lot. I can listen to Cliff for a few hours.
Holy shit we really have dumbed down I could never speak that precisely and clearly so consistently.
With all his explanations, there is one main problem …… still ……. Prove god actually exists. He still makes the rash assumption that said god is eternal. If that’s true, then why is it not possible the universe is eternal? Not a single one of these apologists has been capable of providing sufficient evidence that said god does in fact exist.
Energy is neither created or destroyed. It just is. God is the energy, He just is. Existence of energy proves it's possible for God to exist. If there is an example of perpetuity, eternity, then that comes from something unable to be created or destroyed.
@@ImMyBeloveds_HeIsMine Prove your god actually exists AND that it is energy. The existence of energy does not prove your magical being and more than rainbows prove a leprechaun with a pot of gold.
You’re delusional.
Science still cannot create a cell.
Science is man trying to understand his environment. science is what man uses to carryout the two tasks God gave Adam and Eve 1) name everything and 2) take care of the garden.
@@gingercake0907 If this were true our world would be completely different because we would be ahead in science by maybe 500 years.
Your point?
So what? 100 years ago science couldn't transplant a heart from a recently deceased person into a dying person and prolong their life. Now it's fairly commonplace. 200 years ago the fastest you could travel depended on how fast your horse was, now we travel globally at near sonic speeds.
@@mirandahotspring4019 Yes science fails us everyday...now we can travel fast but still have cancer and science still asks us to worship it.
The most powerful thing, I as a teenager already have the noggin knowledge cliffe presents, I already have the facts, it tells me that even a teenager can use the same evidential information to proclaim the gospel, amazing!
I’m learning and embarking on finally being baptized in the orthodox faith but I really appreciate this man a lot. Very intelligent and open to talking to anyone.
Cliffe has no evidence that order in the universe (natural law) exists because of an intelligent designer. He has no evidence that proves a designer has ANYTHING to do with the universe.
I can confidently claim that because there is 1. Natural law- everything that happens is due to natural law (whether or not we like the end product). 2. Even IF there were a god there’s No Way to prove its existence and that it had Anything to do with the “big bang”.
So most of what Cliffe preaches is ignorance because he can’t know the mind of god and he’s simply making assumptions. There is Nothing in nature that prevents life evolving from inanimate matter. And if there is anyone who would know it would be physicists who study nature’s characteristics.
For example, in 1953 Urey and Miller produced the basic building blocks of life in a glass bowl. They filled the bowl with gases they believed existed on Earth before any life. All it took was some energy source to give the molecules the energy to evolve. Now that happened 3 billion years ago. A timeframe most people can’t even imagine. Anything natural is possible so long as there’s a source of energy. Back then there weee at least 3 sources of energy. 1. The Sun. 2. geothermal heat from Earth’s core. 3. Electrical discharges in Earth’s atmosphere.
So the whole god/supernatural story is fake.
Question: Who "produced the basic building blocks of life in a glass bowl 1953"? Who "filled the bowl with gases they believed existed on Earth before any life"?
Indeed, progress in science is an increase in understanding of God's creation and not a replacement for God.
first sentence. shows how you misunderstood is point completely lol you gotta watch the video again man, your following logic, whcihh is good obviously but your arguing against a point that he didn't exactly make so its kind of a waste
It’s not ignorance it’s faith.
Mother Teresa was Not motivated by love. She was motivated by a biblical (& church) doctrine that “suffering cleanses the soul”. The people she cared for she made them purposely suffer before dying. It’s a fact reported by other sources that she denied them necessary medical services and drugs. She made sure they got something to eat and a roof over their head but she believed she was saving souls (which doesn’t actually exist).
And Cliffe’s reasons for there being a god is moronic. First of all he clearly states that his conclusions “are based upon personal experience”. Well, he must be pretty “inexperienced” because Nothing that he names proves anything. Take Order as an example. He has No idea how everything began. And definitely far less than scientists. And thus far, with a few science betrayals, there are virtually No scientists that proposes how everything began. But what they do know is there is No necessary god. That everything happened and from the very beginning the ONLY processes involved were NATURAL LAWS!! They might not know what the “spark” was as of yet but at least they’re looking for evidence that can be “proven”.
No matter how far Cliffe goes with god, he can’t present ANY evidence that god was the cause. For one thing, he and all apologists argue that god exists “outside the natural realm”. With that being the case there’d be no way to prove there is a god because our instruments can only measure real and material things. There is no way to look beyond the natural universe.
“ORDER” also does prove any god because that the same as saying that inanimate matter can’t evolve and NO apologist can prove that. Look at the Urey experiment in 1953. Inanimate matter with the introduction of electricity produced amino acids… the building blocks of life. Which means it is more probable that life emerged from non life by a simple material process. And that was billions of years ago before there was any life on Earrh.
My point being… Cliffe is a true believer. He’s cemented his very existence on their being a god. And I suspect I know the Real reason he believes. And it’s the same reason most other supposedly intelligent people agree with him. Their simply too afraid to die !! And the New Testament tells those fearful people , don’t worry just believe in Jesus and he’ll see you in some paradise!! 🤣
I often wonder if there should be a test for voting in American. And the test structured in such a way that people took high school science classes. Because there are Millions of people that seem completely ignorant of the real world and instead living in some delusion. Read: 1 Corinthians 11:13. It’s a Bible passage that basically tells people to “grow up” !!
What's most plausible is that we evolved on a planet over billions of years. It is not plausible however, that a god did it. As there would be evidence.
But even your plausibility is nothing but guessing because you lack of information on humanity's background. You have no idea what created such a vaste and complex universe. Science can not help you with it because a fundamentale rule about science is experimenting alongside evidence. Without both, you have 100% chance of making a mistake. With atheism comes no morality, just go and see the state of Philadelphia for your mother's sake on youtube.
Why do we need God to genuinely care about someone else?
Because love comes from God. God is the originator of love. We care about each other because it's the connection that God puts between human beings because he puts life in us and that same love generated by God is the same love we're called to share for one another. We love because of God not in spite of him. There's no life without God just a bunch of mannequins molded by the soil of the Earth. God breathed life into us so that we may come to life. Once that life leaves us we are no longer alive. That's why when the body can no longer function the host leaves the body and returns to God because it's his life we were living. It was never ours to keep. God created life to share in the love and as his co creators we spread his love throughout the world. That's why we say God is everywhere. Atheists ask where is God but Atheists fail to see that God is in us for us always and forever until the day our bodies give way and his spirit returns to him. But if you don't get it, you don't get it.
@@edgaracajabon9522yeah but that's called Faith, it's not a logical point of why we actually need God for being able to love.
@@yrxsx because God is the source of love. We don't create the love in us. The love is already there. There are many who are filled with hate only because they reject the love that's been instilled in them from the beginning. Every creation is brought about by love. This is why fornication is such a sin because it is not what God intended. God intended for there to be love between one man and one woman to procreate that love into another human being. These days there's little of that and that's why the world is so corrupt today. If you do not have God you do not have love for love comes from God. If you say you have love but do not know God you are a liar. It's written in scripture
I love how this is such a civil and humane discussion between two intelligent individuals. I wish people could be more like this nowadays. I hope this young man got answers to his questions ❤ 🙏🏼
❤Thank you for sharing this. God bless you and your family. Jesus Christ is only true way to truth and life. Amen❤
No proof was presented in this video, just unnecessary blabbering of nonsense.
Wena satani
It is a philosophical senseble proof which a nonsense cannot accept it
Before death, you will never get proof that God exists, just as you will never get proof that he does not exist. This argument was over the possibility of God's existence and stacking arguments in his favor
It wasn't meant to prove, it was meant to support the notion of possible existence of God,,but we both know you weren't here seeking to believe but to patronize 😅
This preacher is bad. Any atheist would destroy him in a debate. Hes making stuff up as he goes. Faith isnt all that honorable.
Cliffe's arguments are all illogical, and believers should care about that.
1. We know for a fact order can arise naturally, without a mind. (Hundreds of scientific papers worth of evidence proving this can be found in the references "evolution" on Wikipedia if you need reasonable evidence proving this is true. An even simpler way is by seeing videos like "mari/o" (here on TH-cam) where the programmer just simulates evolution and the artificial intelligence improves without intelligent guidance, so that by the end the AI races through the Super Mario level faster than most humans.)
2. Cliffe's rule rules out an uncaused living god. (Such a god, by Cliffe's own "life comes from life" argument, would need to be caused by life.)
3. Nobody has evidence of objective moral values. Not one. So we don't know they exist. If we did know they exist, does Cliffe provide evidence of a god being the best explanation? No. So his argument here is saying two things are true back-to-back, *neither with evidence.* (The things being (a) objective morality exists, and (b) if it does it's best explained by a god.)
4. Cliffe just says for no reason love isn't just an emotion. There isn't even really an argument argued here if you pay attention; he's just saying he disagrees, on no basis; without evidence.
In fact, wow does his explanation (later in the vid) about love get offensive. Holy crap. It's like he doesn't understand the purpose of love *while literally having described the purpose of love!* Love arose randomly. Love stuck around (as an instinct caused by genes) generation to generation because of the simple fact that: *what tribe is going to thrive more? The one with love or without it?* Well that includes people being willing to try to help their loved ones survive illnesses like leukemia (because sometimes that will succeed, and the tribe will have more people as a result, and thrive better as a result -- far better than the alternate tribe that constantly betrays its own members, right?)
Anyone who thinks this through sees it.
I think Cliffe has probably had it explain to him. Likely multiple times. But well...he makes money preaching so he doesn't have a strong motivation to be truthful.
Who made the artificial intelligence?
@@yrxsx Nobody. It was mindless and therefore not really AI until the process of evolution acted on it. The process of evolution isn't a "who" so your question is malformed.
@@majmage you just stated that a programmer runned a script that simulated the process of evolution...
@@yrxsx I'm a game designer. In my 30s I worked on a game which, among other things, _simulated rocks._
So now either (A) you agree with me that someone programming a simulation has *no bearing whatsoever* on how that thing was caused in real life or (B) you think all rocks are made by 30-something white male game designers named Mike.
Which is it?
But I was correct when I told you the cause of the AI was just the mindless process of evolution.
* the programmer created a simulation
* it also created a completely mindless system for randomly pushing buttons (so it wasn't AI).
* so the only cause of intelligence was the unintelligent process of evolution
You saw it yourself. (You...did watch it, yeah?)
@@majmage you cannot possibly associate yourself with divine powers as a 30 years old programmer, so obviously you do not have a saying on how rocks are created in real life. But even your first premise, does not disproof the concept of a creator. Evolution is the consequence of creation itself, it is an independent process that as you said learned by itself. But did life just happened to be or was it the consequence of the right envinroment? And the environment which permitted life just happened to be or was it a consequence of the Universe's development? We can apply this reasoning to the AI improvement which, until proven contrary, was made reality thanks to a device developed by an human being. Without the programmer itself, there wouldn't be no simulation whatsoever. Ultimately, without a cause there cannot be a consequence. If you keep at it, you need to eventually find a "causeless cause" in the great scheme of things and that is called God.
I found this particular conversation informative and at the same time inspirational.
People were so much better in this era. What a respectful conversation and regarding something worth speaking about. Two people on 2 different spectrums yet they have respect for each other
Today people would be screaming at each other and throwing tantrums over something that shouldn’t even be debated about
Cliffe is so dishonest. None of his claims are evidence for god, he is not showing evidence he is filling his ignorance with god.
They are. What they aren't is proof... I think you confuse evidence with proof
@orthodoxbasics another dumas ignorant. If you put god responsible for anything without first presenting evidence of its existence, then you are not showing evidence for its existence. You are just showing your ignorance.
@orthodoxbasics no, basically every theists answer for evidence of god is "look at the world." Not knowing how everything came to be, and putting their god responsible, it's not evidence of god it's evidence of their ignorance.
@@JuanManuel-ep8do Evidence is information or facts that support a claim or argument, while proof is evidence that establishes a claim as true beyond a reasonable doubt. In other words, evidence is used to build a case or support a hypothesis, while proof is the final confirmation that the claim is true. Proof is typically stronger and more definitive than evidence.
@JuanManuel-ep8do Again, it seems you aren't aware between the difference between these two. which, in this case, just proofs your ignorance
First 2 pieces of evidence are sampling error and a logical fallacy, cant listen further without cringe
Claims are not evidence.
I think this young man is the most thoughtful and intelligent student I have ever seen on one of Cliffe's videos. A most excellent discussion!
I think This guy was genuinely confused and wanted answer. The way this debate goes is great.
I love the depth of intellectual debate between these 2. No animosity but question and answer, no hostility but probing and searching for the truth such as it may be
Please bring back discourse like this. So much more respectful and beneficial.
I love how he was asked a Question and was actually allowed to Answer!😅
What an impressive and articulate young man. I would love to know where is it today and what he did with his life. Amazing…
Very good conversation here. A lot to learn. These guys debating so respectful, 👍👍
I love this kids honesty though , he’s not being rude he just has questions
Yep! I agree that it's the best I've heard of his debates!! Thank u! 💜✝️
Keep faith, brighter days are ahead. 🌟
Brilliance from both sides displayed here thank you for sharing!
Wow, what a debate. Such respect yet both putting their point across very well.
Both men are so well spoken. The debate between these 2 gentlemen is actually very intelligent, shows both sides considering each others opinions and beliefs. Asking for clarification and description. Beautiful video, thanks!
Terrific questioner. Genuinely interested in truth-seeking. An uplifting interchange.
That young man was so respectful and honest, he was amazing!
i love this conversation, just respectful on each other
An open minded young man in an interesting and intelligent debate is priceless! Fair play to the two men in the debate and everyone else who is there with an open mind 💙