Debating students actually has a chance of accepting the word and spreading the word through their conversations with Cliff. A well-known Atheist would probably stick with his ideals because he is famous for it.
Cliff doesn't debate students he goes to the university to preach the word of God & the students are the ones that come with questions & doubts he simply tells them what the Bible says & what Jesus preached
Listening to this debate I've come to one conclusion, the difference between the atheist and the Believers is gratitude. The Atheist sees a beautiful flower and thinks that's a beautiful flower. The believer sees a beautiful flower and thanks God for their eyes, thanks God for the sunlight, thanks God for this beautiful creation, thanks God for this life and the chance to experience this beautiful flower.
And then goes next door to butcher his neighbor just because he believes the same thing but has a different God in mind, this is not to say that an atheist is better just to say that believers are no better, and most of the time even worse.
Seeing the beauty in a flower as an atheist does not require gratitude towards an imaginary being. But gratitude for being alive and for having the life that you have or having gratitude for actual real people around you is not absent among atheists. Using a bad example where the only difference between your theist and atheist is the presupposition of a god proves nothing but the obvious fact that an atheist will not thank an imaginary being that he doesn’t believe exists. Tells you nothing about an atheists ability to show gratitude
@@neojake9389 ur mixing believers with non believers. A believer wouldnt hurt anyone. Just bc this happens doesnt mean one to believe will do it. Thats the same as saying bc some man killed a cat all men kill cats. Doesnt make sense. Someppl can act or even think they believe but action shows not thinking
@@chokobirdwatsmynameive been atheist and now christian i can say they were times i passed a beautiful sunset just by thinking its beautiful rather than thanking its there. And why should u. Being atheist is belieiving everything was created by chances and coincidences so why should u thamk anyone for the beautiful flower if no ones responsible. When i was atheist i like u and other used religion to deny it. Grwoing up was realizing this doesnt make sense. Either u believe in something throuly or u dont.
because America's government has become extremely corrupt, too corrupt to have a proper democracy or republic. We see that today especially in the campaigning of Donald Trump and Kamala Harris, they both try and use fear "if you don't vote for me America ends". No matter who is elected, it will cause more unrest
Because the news agencies are owned by foreign companies that wish to manipulate the usa and politicians into doing what their owners wish. The owners are the few but mega rich who want a one world order and announced their plans. You will own nothing and you will like it. The recent changes in the digital domain that make your purchases a purchase to use rather than own are just another step in the plan.
Not gonna lie, that one point rocked my world. When he talked about how brain injuries are known for changing someone's whole personality... If you were an atheist & your new self becomes a Christian... Are you still the same person? How would God judge us? If today I was Matt, and tomorrow I got into a horrible car wreck that turned me into Josh. I'm not "Matt" anymore, but Josh believes... how are we judged? It doesn't necessarily make me question God's existence or anything, but it certainly brings into question how we will be held accountable.
@@johnathanscott4187 And? Are we suppost to know all about God and his judgement. I stated out the most important part, everyone is judged differendly and fairly.
2 minutes in and he already says that he believes an objective morality, that morality doesn't exist just because he says so, but that morality exists because we assign value to things. That is a self-defeating argument. If things have value because we assign them value, that is not an objective value.
@bizbreakdown1You are incorrect....the meaning of objective, is that there is one truth regardless of how you feel that day. Murder is OBJECTIVELY wrong, Sex trafficking is OBJECTIVELY wrong, do you disagree?....you can play mental gymnasyics if you want, but no good parent is going to say "well that person that kidnapped my child is right in his/her own mind, so who am I to be saddened and angry about it? It's right to them so it's valid...." I mean come on...you could never truly live out a morally SUBJECTIVE lifestyle...because objective morality exists, and it exists because God put right and wrong discernment in us. You know it, no matter how you may spin it.
@@cldaniels7632is killing objectively wrong?? Is there no scenario in which killing someone is the most moral position you could take? Does this transfer to animals as well?
@@johnnybgood7442 My apologies for saying killing instead of murder, but yea, I meant murder is objectively wrong as it can only be murder if it's out of malice, either way, it does require forgiveness.
@@johnnybgood7442 I would, but owning people and slavery took on different meanings in the biblical days. Slavery is objectively wrong though. No person should force/oppress another to do their bidding as we are made in the image of God and are already assigned very high value by God
That's how they usually do it. Cut out huge chunks to make the nonbeliever sound uneducated and/or take things out of context to make it seem they agree with the believer.
@metal-z9p I figure they likely just did it so they have more videos. I don't know much about TH-cam's monetization, but it seems to me that if 1mil people watch one video, they make less than if 1mil people watch two.
our God has, I believe, more proof of existence, Jesus Christ actually rose from the dead and there is proof that he did so. Our God lives through the Holy Spirit, other "Gods" do not have that power. That is what I understand so far.
Other Gods believe you have to work to a standard or be a “good person” to go to heaven. Jesus says that we are all born sinner and always fall short of the glory of God so he died on that cross, lived a sinless life and defeated death because he rose up on the third day so that if we believe in what he did we can live in paradise with him.
Allah is Satan, greatest of deceivers , black rock in Mecca started as Baal worship. Traditional Islam allows adultery, idol worship, and assaulting your wife. Al makarin. Jew is different from jew “ish” Jewish. Why are they known as a adjective and not a definite culture. Look up the khazarian god eaters. Synagogue of Satan. Christ is the only way.
*_It's not a religion. It's a relationship!_* *Who'd want a relationship with anyone who told you it's **_the only way_** you can avoid having **_their representatives_** throw you into a burning furnace where you'll cry and be in extreme pain? Matthew 13:49, 50*
⁴⁹ So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth,and sever the wicked from among the just, ⁵⁰ and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing an gnashing of teeth. :Mathew 13:49-50. I don't see what's wrong with this verse. The wicked shall be separated from the just into the furnace. What's wrong with that? Unless you are saying that the wicked shouldn't be separated? Is that what you are implying or not. Please elaborate
@@lexudary. --- *Except the Bible says everyone is wicked so we're all going to hell. EXCEPT for those who are "saved."* *"Knock knock."* *"Who's there?"* *"It's me, Jesus... Let me in."* *"Let you in why?"* *"So I can save you."* *"Save me from what?"* *"From what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in.*
@gordon3186 no its more like a judge and the judged. The judge gives the prisoner a chance to get out of jail if he follows the simple rules he implaces but if he chooses not to after hearing this then he will go to jail for life. "Knock knock" "Whos there" "Jesus, let me in" "Why should i let you in?" "Because i can save you" "Save me from what?" "Save you from the doom that awaits you due to the sins you have done"
@@lexudary.--- The "doom that awaits you" is solely of your god's own making; it's he who created hell and he who damns people there. Civilized judges don't send people to jail for life for jaywalking. Much less to one in which inmates, "...will cry and be in extreme pain there." Matthew 13:50 GWT
What do I live for? How do I know it's true? My atheist response. Friends, family and experiences. Yes, I go to work and make money in an effort to enjoy my time with friends/family and to have experiences that enrich my life but to say that I live for work and financial enrichment? No, I have left higher paying jobs because they interfered with my priorities. How do I know it's true? I suppose the question is really, how do I know that living for friends, family and experiences is the right way to live my life? So ofncourse what do I (or we) agree on is the "right way to live"? Typically I think this revolves around positive outcomes which of course needs the same definement. So a positive outcome i could describe is happiness. I am happier spending time with friends and family. I am happier when I experience something like visiting an interesting location, holidays, concerts, art, movies, television, etc (experiences). So I live my life spending time with the ones I love, doing the things I love. And that seems to me like a good way to live.
That question is for Christians and believers, what is the point of living? Why not 'poof' all babies? Won't they have a better life in heaven. Why do they get sad when people die? People should rejoice
I like this take and I would like to say that if I was an atheist and I wanted to do what made me happy I would do molly and coke all day to feel good. I would do whatever made me happy and whatever felt good. And to me my positive outcome of this would be a constant feeling of euphoria. Something I like to ask atheist is what makes something good or bad. If I kill someone because they do something I don’t like, without a God I fail to see how this is wrong. Just because someone says it may be wrong someone may say it is the right thing to do. I believe the reason we feel right between wrong is because of a God given conscience. Without a God there is no argument for right or wrong, at that point we are simply intelligent animals.
@Jujujgd , she had a belief in a subgroup of Catholicism that believed that unfortunate people are destined to suffer throughout their lives because God chose that for them so that they could be saved when they died, so for these kind of people, she only provided them with the least, so that they could basically suffer “in comfort” until they died. A study was conducted on her and her beliefs to confirm this.
@@Jujujgd @doofymusic69 has given a good synopsis. She was taking huge donations in millions of dollars and funnelling it to the church rather than its intended use to provide succour to the poor and suffering whom she treated terribly. There are whole documentaries about this.
@@DoofyMusic69 your subgroup theory was a " MYTH'". actually the criticizes of mother Teresa I mean specially the Christopher hitchens he He deliberately mislead the people. To believe in his conspiracy theories. Mostly the Western readers... I will tell you why He deliberately ignored the ground realities and the challenges faced by charity organizations in India due to the laws in place at that time. Specifically in the palliative care.. you will definitely hear about the pain management of her charitable organization... And the "theory" Say's she refuse to give Adequate Pain Relief medicine deliberately to patients to make them suffer maximum. Am i right ? And why I saying it's not true.. The answer is NDPS ACT on 1985 in India.. It's impact on pain management, and palliative care.. The Act classifies narcotic drugs, including various opioids like morphine, codeine, and heroin. And strictly regulates it's use... Christopher suspiciously never mentioned about this act in his book or anywhere.. He attempted to place the entire blame on a single person, attributing all the fault on mother Teresa including the one she have nothing to do with... As a indian i will clearly Recommend you to look up into this act deeply ... And the challenge face by her and other charitable organizations in India at that time... Self research is the key... And i am aware of the study you mention.. The specific study you are referring to regarding Mother Teresa in 2013 may not be universally recognized, as many academic.. Because this study was considered as a biased one...This study is considered invalid because it lacks a mention of the beneficiaries of her. By not including the perspectives and experiences of those who received care from Mother Teresa's organizations, the study fails to provide a comprehensive and balanced understanding of her impact. The absence of this crucial group limits the validity of the findings and reduces the study's ability to engage with the complexities of her legacy. Valid research should include diverse voices to ensure a well-rounded analysis... Not just that it is biased because it's Selective Focus, Neglect of Ground Reality, Influence of Preconceived Notions.. The NDPS Act (Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances Act) was amended in 2014 to address several issues related to drug law enforcement and to improve access to narcotic drugs for medical and scientific purposes.
I was recently reading about what and how different people define love. Nonbelievers say that love is a feeling we get, while followers of Christ believe it is a choice
@@JohnVictor-dr7m Not at all. Nearly everyone you’ve ever known will be forgotten. Can you name your great great grandfather? He is, likely, completely forgotten. If not him, then his father for sure. I’ll be forgotten in two generations after my death, and that doesn’t bother me at all. I’m genuinely curious, why are you afraid of that?
No he isn't, he stated there is no free will and claimed there is only absolute morality when he stated that humans "give" morality to others. I'd rather watch other atheist then this guy because Matt is all about what ifs and maybe this and that. Never a good argument. Cliff is respectful not much of a debetar which I agree but that doesnt make his claims wrong.
@@strawhatobi4845 you need to look up his definition of absolute morality, because I guarantee it’s not the same thing that you’re thinking of. Matt could’ve done a better job at explaining his definition, but he has said many times that his definition is esoteric.
He isn’t preaching at all. Have you ever been to church and listened to a preacher? Most of Matt’s point were just opinion and had no weight or substance to them. His argument about his mom can’t go to heaven because if he went to hell how could she be happy in heaven knowing her son went to hell. That argument is a fallacy. You see that happen all the time. No one wants to lose a loved one. No one wants to see their mom or dad die, yet many people say they are happy they have finally passed away because they are no longer suffering with cancer. Does that mean that they aren’t the same person because they are happy that their mom/dad has passed away? To say that there obviously can’t be a heaven because Christians believe there is no more sorrow in heaven is just ridiculous. How many times have you been extremely angry or agitated, but someone or something comes along and soothes you and you no longer have those negative feelings? Heaven could be much the same way, no sorrow their because we are being soothed by the presence of God, or we no longer have to live in a fallen world. There are many explanations of the lack of sorrow in heaven. The one he made just falls flat.
@ you clearly don’t know what a fallacy is. If I’m wrong, please name the exact fallacy that he’s committing there. Secondly, his point makes complete sense. YOUR point doesn’t make any sense. Some people are “happy” that their parents pass because they believe that their loved one is NOT suffering anymore. Would they feel the same way if they knew their parents were suffering ETERNALLY??? I think not. Lastly, Cliffe never demonstrated even one time (nor has anyone in history) that heaven is even a real place. Until you do that, you can’t possibly tell me that things like “sorrow” don’t exist. So, please point out the specific fallacy he committed and then how you know heaven is real.
@idallas4964 the bible was written by various humans over centuries....its simply a book 📖 written by people, and there's debate today about who wrote what ...
@@Starchaser63do you believe the history books that are taught in schools? Do you believe in evolution? Do you believe that the earth is 100 billion years old? If so, what’s different about those? Because all of those things are written by human beings as well. What makes history books, and theories of earth’s origin more “factual” or believable than the Bible? Honestly it doesn’t matter who wrote the Bible, if it is truth and the inspired word of God like the Bible says then honestly it doesn’t really matter who wrote it.
100% Alex is probably my favorite atheist skeptic because he is clearly intrigued, we just gotta see if theres any amount of evidence that is plausible which would convince him
Life is deep and confusing. I Don't really care about money, only reason I want to have money is because I need it to survive. Money eliminates certain problems like shelter, transport, medicine, clothes, food and other things. A Lamborghini is nice but I can't afford it, doesn't mean life is over, I can live without it. I love people, not because I get benefits from them, for example I love my neighbor and he doesn't do anything for me, but I understand that he's also a human who has dreams and faces difficulties like everybody else, but maybe It's because I'm a good person and I treat people the way I would want to be treated, but the confusing part is I sympathise with people who treat me terribly, maybe it's because I have hope that they will change one-day or maybe I understand that as people we are not the same, but than again if there is no God maybe I should just make the feel pain like how they make me feel but than again I hate seeing people in pain, maybe my goodness forces me to believe that there is a God, who will create a place where there is no pain. The one thing that causes me to believe in God is the big bang how did it happen something cannot come from nothing something had to cause it another thing that causes me to believe their is a God is that life has too many coincidences, the relationship between everything is extreme, from plants, to animals, to the people, everything has it's purpose. Why Christianity though because to me it's the one that makes the most sense, if you are someone like me honestly the Bible is actually one of the best gifts God has given us because truly it is a pure guide on how to conquer the world and that's what Jesus came and did. I still remain open minded but for now it is what it is.
Everything that exists came from something. Does god exist? What created your fictitious god? I thought so. Special pleading. None of the so called apostles were eye witnesses to anything. There are stories written that claim that to be true. Stories written at least 100 yrs after the claimed events by anonymous authors who were repeating myths. Mark, Matthew, Luke and John never wrote a word.
@@lexudary. as I say, let’s see in reality how they would respond if someone offered them £100m. Would they really give most of it away? History tells us that humans - not least in the church - rather like worldly comforts and pleasures.
13 minutes in, highly recommend anyone interested to research the historicity of the new testament and to review the contradictions in the Bible. Bart Erhman's work is highly recommended and can really open up the door to other scholars and works, deep dive into what we know. I mean, Cliff states at the 12:50ish mark that we have over 5200 Greek manuscripts dated between the 2nd and 10th century A.D. I think a very valid skeptical thought would be, would i trust a source claiming a miraculous event over a hundred years after the event took place. I think Matt's earlier point about how there are people today that will talk about their alien abduction experience being better evidence really hits home.
when i heard Cliff talking about the 5200, he very cleverly left out the copies of the copies of the copies and the non-existance of originals. this is what apologetics do. they leave out certain things or add certain things, hoping that people wont notice and then claim that he did not change anything.
@@Smallyardguy really what you want to get at his how to weigh historical evidence. I believe that you should take a look at the following and spend some time asking historians how they determine the historical accuracy of a claim. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_method Cut and Pasted the following from the above wiki Gilbert J. Garraghan and Jean Delanglez (1946) divide source criticism into six inquiries:[3] When was the source, written or unwritten, produced (date)? Where was it produced (localization)? By whom was it produced (authorship)? From what pre-existing material was it produced (analysis)? In what original form was it produced (integrity)? What is the evidential value of its contents (credibility)? The first four are known as higher criticism; the fifth, lower criticism; and, together, external criticism. The sixth and final inquiry about a source is called internal criticism. Together, this inquiry is known as source criticism.
@Smallyardguy I'm not sure if my original reply posted or not so if this populated twice, I apologize. I cannot accept that you genuinely want to compare historical evidence between Jesus and Abraham Lincoln so i assume that what is really troubling you is how to determine the historical accuracy of a claim. I recommend doing your own research but I have copied a helpful tidbit to hopefully get you started. Gilbert J. Garraghan and Jean Delanglez (1946) divide source criticism into six inquiries: When was the source, written or unwritten, produced (date)? Where was it produced (localization)? By whom was it produced (authorship)? From what pre-existing material was it produced (analysis)? In what original form was it produced (integrity)? What is the evidential value of its contents (credibility)? The first four are known as higher criticism; the fifth, lower criticism; and, together, external criticism. The sixth and final inquiry about a source is called internal criticism. Together, this inquiry is known as source criticism.
- “We’re not special, this planet is not special Also -“There are no aliens, all of the testimonies in history are all false” I’m so glad Atheists are the smartest people 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂Xd
@@A_Stereotypical_Heretic you’re right. I should have said value and not meaning, Matt did say meaning. In the sense that we have value as a person isn’t dependent on wether we’re loved or not. Either value is intrinsic or it is assigned. If someone isn’t lovable then do they have less value than someone who is? a what makes someone lovable? Many people loved and admired Charles Manson. I’m not saying that he had less value than Elvis, a well loved contemporary. Either they were valuable as people in their intrinsic value or they weren’t
@@danielwarton5343 honestly, I don't know what makes a person valuable. Id like to say positive contribution to their surroundings, but value is so subjective who knows? 🤷 Meaning is definitely something a person grants to themselves, and it should be that no one can give nor take that away from them. It's unfortunate we live in a time when so many depend on others to feel meaningful.
@@tylerloop6448 yes if murdering someone didn't hurt them or cause any harm or damage to anyone it wouldn't be crime . actions are bad because of what they cause.
@@christianalvarez9635nice red herring fallacy! These two things are kind of similar but are definitely very differing. We don’t have a big book of in detail stories about ancient Egypt, we have some of what we think to be pretty historically accurate evidences. Like mummified remains, indicating a part of their culture. Then we made inferences. Which is why, in history books, phrases like “it’s believed” will get used a lot. The stakes are also lower. If we aren’t correct on a lot of the information about ancient Egypt, it’s not that big of a deal. With religion, wars have been fought, and many many many people have died. The evidence in regards to Christianity is essentially nonexistent. And as opposed to taking the source material with a grain of salt, Christians often use the Bible as this end all be all “evidence.”
Can you point out what part of the discussion youre referring to? Cliff did bring up the argument on the scriptures reliability, but they never went to far with it because they were trying to cover a lot of topics in a short amount of time
@@BornofFire117 Matt doesnt need to prove Cliffs beliefs false, they are his claims to prove true. If Matt wants to offer a different claim, he has to prove that. The discussion in general was based more of logical deductions from either sides general beliefs rather than full on debating the evidences and facts.
When did Cliff ever claim that anything is because it is? Cliff also never said anything about anything being true because the Bible says so. You are as intellectually dishonest as Matt. Seek Jesus. Shalom 🙏✝️❤️
@SammichLS That is literally what @BornofFire117 was addressing. Matt never gave any evidence to support his beliefs or "unbeliefs". Cliff gave clear evidence for his beliefs. Seek Jesus. Shalom 🙏✝️❤️
@@Ioulou66 I disagree. I thought Cliff was pretty clear on what his beliefs are based on. A person who simply doesn't want to even consider God's existence and the implications of that will simply dismiss any explanation or reason...
What are you living for? - To become the best version of myself as I understand that to be. What evidence do you have that is true? - BS question because The Goal is not "True". The Goal is asserted as a personal value of the individual. So in that capacity it is an "Accurate" statement of the individual's goal to the question you asked, "What are you living for?". The actual correctly worded 2nd question is, "What makes you think that is the goal you should value to work towards?" Because, again, its a personal goal to each individual. As we learn and grow as individuals and as a person that impacts others in society, we may completely throw out that goal or just refine it to be more precise. All Cliffe is getting at for that 2nd question is, "How do you know your current goal for what you are living for is the actual ultimate goal you should be working towards?". Well once you discover an understanding as to why your answer to that question is wrong, then you should update your answer. If you dont, like how religious people refuse to update their understanding of reality, then you're picking your ideology over reality. You're living in a world of Wishful thinking. Adults dont do this. We may pick goals that we may never reach, like the ideal version of ourselves, but that doesnt mean that goal is unobtainable or not based in reality at all. This is all what Cliffe does. He uses language in ways that most people dont use these terms for or creates questions that are not actual accurate questions to the topic. Its all just Equivocation fallacies over word use just so that he can sound insightful and "spiritual" guru BS. Notice how Cliffe uses common everyday occurrences that we all experience as an equivalent experience of lots of people claiming to experience a supernatural event. Sorry but 100s of people claiming to explain an experience via magic is not at all equivalent to everyone describing an experience within the known properties of reality. Everyone getting in a car crash is not the same as everyone experiencing a magical event. Oh yeah drinking a Dr Pepper is just as common place as as casting a level 3 healing spell as a cleric of your favorite deity. Those experiences are the same right?
Christian's anti-slave argument doesn't hold any water. Paul had mercy on one guy he never once said free the slaves. Jesus didn't say Free the slaves either. Meanwhile Leviticus makes it very clear that you could buy and own human beings for life, as long as they weren't Hebrew.
Yea, it really doesn't. I work with a guy who is a preacher and I will qoute Christ, in an attempt for a better peaceful world and he'll qoite Paul. Paul is just writing from inspiration he isn't the word of god.
Every theologian in history who has studied the Bible disagrees but good thing you came here to prove them all wrong! Just by glancing over some verses too that’s impressive
People that actually believe the bible dosent hold argument for anti slavery is amazing. Just show you haven’t even studied such views and still came into the internet throw your opinion, which is fine. The internet wouldn’t be such a bad influence if people actually looked up things before saying, which could make a blank minded person pick that up, and also starting to throw arguments with no base what so.
If the Bible was so clear about anti-slavery, why did it took the Christian world more than 1400 years to abolish it? And the argument of Wilberforce is weak, the slave owners were also Christians and they justified their policy on the Bible too. In the British Parliament everyone was Christian and it took many years for Wilberforce to pass his law. The Aglican church released a statement on 2020 admitting that some Christians at that time were against the abolition of slavery (which was a diplomatic way to say that the majority was against).
Physical evidence to me would be stuff like the ground I'm standing on and the intricacy of How It's All atoms and molecules down to the grains of sand as well as the water in the sea or the water we drink and how all the medicine that we've ever needed to survive Humanity up until this very Point has either been discovered or yet to be discovered but it's already here. The immense intricacy of our DNA, the origin story of how I literally breathe, the origin of how gravity is here and how it was created, how all of our feelings as human beings are the same emotions just in different ways due to us being individuals. In my humble opinion my God has made himself known blatantly to my face even if I can't see him physically I think about Thomas and how Jesus told him blessed are the ones who haven't seen and still believe. Stuff like how it describes a covenant of a book that was written over 2000 years ago that describes a rainbow in the sky that we see to this very day. How we have discovered things that have been true that have been from a book that was written that long ago. Regardless if it's been handed down as a game of telephone, it is literally the best and most accurate game of telephone that's ever been recorded. How can we understand Heavenly things if we already don't understand the Earthly things? How we dream, the smells on the planet, how everything has life, literally. He is my Lord and Savior and if anyone has any questions I would love to answer as best as I could. But if you also ask questions that I cannot answer nor can you there shouldn't be blame that I believe that it becomes Divine knowledge. While we can explain what things are that does not mean that we have the origin of how things can be made. If you don't understand that then break it down into the very most minute thing that you can think of and it just comes back to atoms and molecules and how bacteria works and basically the most basic form of quantum mechanics. While we understand little about quantum mechanics that does not mean we understand the origin stories of how every single thing that we have on this planet got here. I, for myself, believe that was my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ that created all of the entire universe and everything within it.
There’s a fallacy there though, or at least you’re missing the point. Evidence that there is a ground and trees and atoms supports the idea that there are grounds, trees, and atoms. You can’t infer further to say that there must have been a being that created all of this. We don’t know if there was a being that created all of this. But if you start from the conclusion that a being created all of this, you will find mountains and mountains of “evidence” that actually don’t mean anything.
We live because we live Cliffe. Reasons for our survival and our happiness is something else. Reasoning with your brain to eat and hydrate sustains one's existence. People have reasons for many things that stimulate and benefit the lives that they live. If the reason for you Cliffe, is the need for a God that gave you your life comforts you, then so be it. That doesn't make your God belief true. Hopefully you're just adding a reason among other reasons to live. It seems that your God belief is your ultimate belief to live, and you contaminated your son with that mentality, which can possibly inhibit critical thinking and rationality. Both of which are beneficial to the truth and decision making for survival.
You know Cliffe isn't as humble as he should he since his view on what happens after death is either A or B. No possiblity of anything beside A or B, he's close minded and its so obvious.
Ok then you come with other possibilities of after death and give use the evidence of how you came to that conclusion 😂 "After death you turn into a star" Ok well where is the evidence of C?
@@medicisounds1384You missed the point. It's okay to not know what happens after death. Why can't we just say that we don't know what happens after death because we dont have any evidence? Cliff lays out his belief of what happens after death but isn'topen to any other ideas. Atleast this is what I interpreted the original comment as.
@ He literally says constantly that he doesn't know. No one knows. But he claims that the evidence according to Jesus (God) is that there is an afterlife. He says constantly he is open to other possibilities, but the evidence is never quite superior to the evidence of afterlife and eternal life. Just going around saying idk and idc what happens is a scary way to live. Because what if there is an afterlife wouldn't you want eternal life? I daydream everyday of living for eternity. Immortality! Would be amazing. So if there's a chance at that i am going to look for that.
It’s called being convinced of something. And being convinced of something is okay. He’s not closed minded, he’s sticking to what he’s seen to be true. And what he believes. You can’t believe in God AND believe that nothing happens if you die. You got to pick something.
I feel I have much more meaning in my life as an Atheist. My mind is clear and not confused. I see reality better and have no need to think magically. More stable minded and definitely more FREE.
That's good. I'm not atheist but closer to agnostic. I will say this the Christian belief in god is so asinine it baffles me how dumb they sound sometime.
But isn’t the most rational position in regards to freedom for the atheist determinism? Which is literally in itself the OPPOSITE of freedom? Interested to hear your thoughts
@@samuelzapata4151 An Atheist can have all different philosophies they may or may not agree with. My thinking does not align with determinism in any rigid way, although I do think there is some aspects of life that are determined from things in the past. There are things we cannot control. I do not think about determinism at all, in fact this is the first time even chatting about it. My emphasis is on mental wellbeing and having a stable rational mind as best I can, given my personal situations. I used to be Christian and used to give up control of my life to an ideology and a God that I thought ruled over the whole world. I wanted to make decisions based on what I thought a God wanted me to do. Now as an atheist, I trust my own thoughts and am free to explore different ideas and feel I have much more control over my own life and brain. No demons or angels or other invisible undetectable entities trying to jump into my mind. I am not frightened by anything anymore and I really mean anything. I focus on things I do have some control over and do not wonder what a God may or may not be doing, so my mind is clearer. I trust my thought processes more. No guilt or shame. I feel more grounded to reality. I feel whole. My life is better. I treat other people better because I see them as human beings rather than through the lens of a God BELIEF.
Even the most ardent atheists had near death experience that made them change their mind about God and the after life. You see-- if you were right that there is no God, then we both have nothing to lose..but if we were right that God exist, then we have a lot to gain and you have got a lot to lose--your one and only soul. So why would you risk your soul, your eternal life for something you are not sure about? As it is written: "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment." Hebrews 9:27
@@Maksie0Hell awaits. Humility is what will lift the veil off your eyes, sparing your soul from eternal damnation in hell.Jesus is the only path to life, my friend.Seek God and you will find Him.
@Maksie0 Until you see the spirit realm like I did..which you will witness by the way. It's just a matter of time.I hope you're no longer an atheist before that day comes.
@@Maksie0 One day, you yourself will witness what other former atheists discovered that made them believe in God and the afterlife.I hope it will not be too late for you..because time is ticking away...
Do you see how Cliffe is in preacher mode whilst Matt is explaining his position. It is important with preachers that they put on a performance so that the audience is emotionally stirred up. If they were to explain without the theatricals people might realise how absurd they really are.
cliffe is speaking in front of an audience like he knows how… who are you to say he is preaching when he is clearly in a debate? what theatricals are you insinuating??
Well brotha all a Christian can do is present the gospel of salvation out of love and consideration for the hearer, none of us have authority or power to convince a non believer. That power and decision is left to God alone. You can criticize to your fill. God is just making sure ALL folks have heard the message before judgement day. God bless
Ultimately, it's a matter of locus of authority. Does man, either collectively or individually, determine truth, or is universal, objective truth able to be communicated to man from outside man's epistemological constraints?
Even if you could prove this god exists, you would have to admit that this god drowned babies, turning them into bloated, floating bird and fish feeders, all the while watching this horrible suffering and thinking that it is for the best. This is not moral. It's an act of an apparently very fallible being... even with all the omnis.
I mean.. what makes you the person to determine what is objectively moral? If it's not you, what is it? The consensus? The consensus said that sacrificing child a few centuries ago was fine. I'm curious as to what gives you the ability to determine this is evil.
Exodus 21:16 KJV - And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death." The bible forbids slavery.
Great more appeal to emotion. Most preachers love that one. Play the emotional music, start chanting, FEEL the god inside you. Awesome, more cult behavior. Works on the indoctrinated and those who do not use critical thinking.
1:34 “ it’s a strawman to claim that I think slavery is bad just because I say so” - Proceeds to say people are valuable because another person says so.
Religion: Murder is bad because god said so. Him: “Murder is bad because I value human life, and I didn’t need another person or higher power to convince me of that. I even disagree on the morality of your higher power, since he was okay with slavery and genocide in his teachings, and I am against it.” You completely missed the point he was making.
@ buddy, you’re saying that as a product of modern human culture, probably western culture, and probably from a position of relative comfort, at least without real daily desperation. Cultures that believe what you “just know” have been totally infused with ideas like that by religion after thousands of years of “might makes right.” Even in western nations all one needs to do is see what happens when society begins to break down just a little bit and lots of people start justifying murder (I know a lot of people justifying a guy named Luigi who shot a CEO in the back, for example, and non of them are religious). The POINT, as you say, is that these ideas need to be religious so that they are not jettisoned at the first sign that “the chips are down.” It’s nice for you that you’re privileged and safe enough to “just know” that murder is wrong, as if you came up with that in a vacuum, but there are plenty of people in American inner cities and plenty of cultures around the world who believe that the right to kill comes with having power. C’mon man.
For me a butterfly proves design 🦋 The metamorphosis process has too much evidence because you have to know where you are going to end up even before you get started. Think about that. 🤔
Atheism is the lack of belief without evidence. Faith is belief in spite of lack of evidence. Atheism is the more honest and truth seeking view so I followed where the evidence took me, not where the stories told me to go.
Yup. Believing without evidence can be a blind belief. But if God directs prophets such as Isaiah, Micah, Zechariah, Daniel, David etc etc to prophesy that after hundreds of years a Messiah will come, will live a certain life and die by crucifixion hundreds of years before crucifixion was even a invented, and rise on the third day AND exactly like that hundreds of years later Jesus comes and live exactly as predicted, and die exactly as prophesied on the Cross and resurrects on the third day, I believe my faith is based on true evidence from the divine and my belief is not blind.
@Hmmjfifif what God? You use a premise with no substance or proof of existence and demand all logic begins with your assumed conclusion. How are you blatantly this inept? You are instantly made obvious as a blind follower, if you can't discern fact from opinion, it's no wonder people demean your view point.
He should stick to faith. When he tries to use logic he sounds like a complete dunce to anybody who doesn't share his beliefs. Im surprised matt would even entertain a conversation with cliffe.
There have been some excellent atheist debaters, such as Christopher Hitchens. This guy ain't one of em. He is making the most r/atheism arguments I have ever heard
1) You can't begin to accept religion/faith until you understand that nothing didn't create something. Once you understand that a designer created your very complex body, you will embrace the love that your creator has for you. 2) Only one religion can be true or all are false because they all contradict each other. (The law of non-contradiction) Default to these two truths often as you search for your creator. My advice is to read about the Gospel. There is no other story so beautiful given to mankind. I'll respect any choice you make but I will also pray that you look into this matter. God Bless!!
@@Simon-nv5zjso how do you denounce god if you really don’t know. Atheists claim to be smart but it’s 50-50 this was made by god or by coincidence. Most of the time there is a complex creation there is always a sentient being behind the creation . So evidence points that life was made by a higher power the complexity behind life itself is too much of coincidence to be “random”
@ignaciomendez5669 i don't denounce god. I don't believe in your claim that a God exists. I would never say gods don't exist because you can't prove a negative. Also how do you know if it 50/50? How did you discount universe creating pixies?
God is a man made concept part of religions. There are thousands of God's made up. What does "there is nothing but god" even mean? Are you saying everything is god?
@@mindofmayhem. Then you've just reduced god to nothing. Congratulations. I thought I would have to argue against some weird outside and space and time nonsense but god just being everything makes it easy. Why even call it god? It's like when people say the universe is god....no, the universe is the universe. We already have a word that describes the thing we live in, it's called the universe. You're just adding on this extra, pointless word. You're also assuming everything was forced to exist. How do you know it didn't just always exist.and didn't need created?
@@VoidEmergentFox The Universe is forced to exist and exchange energy until it reaches equilibrium too. I don't care the name it's given. I don't care if it's a ball of light or a bag of feces floating in a plastic bag. I'm addressing the very first "problems" that lead to there being something else involved.... The one where people think it's created to begin with. I never said reality was created. I'm saying there is no creation. Only God.
Im surprised matt would waste his time on cliffe. Cliffe does not use or have the snallest inkling of logic in regards to his world view. I doubt he understands what logic is. He clearly demonstrates he struggles with understanding, at the very least.
Cliffe gave one part I’m with, in Numerolgy it speaks of reincarnation as I believe. The return to energy in the universe as you should give back your support to the support that was given to you. There is a Divine presence as magic is a presence proven through energy time’s force sort of algorithm. It’s just the Yeshua fact for me. I’m cool with Christianity, but why can’t the word Tetragrammaton be pronounced? Ahhh I may be speaking to far 😢
There are no Atheists. Only deniers. How can you know this for sure? _"For since the creation of the world God's invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools."_ -Romans 1:20-22
@@zimmothyd1266 Nonsense. I don't need to prove 2+2=4. It's already correct whether you believe it or not. The Word of God is truth whether you believe it or not.
@@theomargames6330 It's logical because it's beneficial to the survival of the species. If you care about others and they care about you it's beneficial for everyone.
@@ReadingRambo152why is the survival of species beneficial though? If we’re all going to turn to dirt what does survival have to do with anything and how does caring even affect survival? You can survive and not be cared for. what exactly does it mean to be caring?
@@banardadams8776 Well your first question is a bit open ended. On a universal scale the survival of any given species isn't beneficial or important. The earth could be wiped out tomorrow and the universe wouldn't notice or care. That being said, the survival of a species by definition is beneficial to that species. And strictly based off of observation it seems like all animals prefer to live rather than die. You might ask why animals want to live, and the only answer I can give to that is that all animals alive today descended from animals that want to live. I know you might not find that answer to be satisfactory, but admittedly I don't really know if there is a satisfactory answers to that question. To answer your second question, why does survival matter if we're all going to turn to dirt? It doesn't. Survival also doesn't matter if there's an after life. After you die, survival ceases to be an issue. And to answer your last question; adult humans may be able to survive if they're not cared for. But children are far less likely to survive, and toddlers and infants certainly won't. Imagine if mothers weren't genetically predisposed to care for their babies, and immediately after birth they just abandoned them; their babies would die and they wouldn't pass down their genes to future generations. So it makes sense that we are genetically predisposed to care for our young because those genes are more likely to get passed down. In short, caring is something that we are genetically predisposed to because it helps us live longer. It helps us survive, and regardless of what happens to us after we die, all animals want to live.
If extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, why do we accept ancient stories as proof of God while dismissing similar claims from other religions or modern events? What makes one belief true and another ‘deceived thinking
This man needs prayer. I feel sorry for hum. But hey u never know, GOD could give him a change of heart. GOD please BLESS him and reveal ykutself to him please
No he doesn´t need it. You only THINK he does. That´s exactly the same like me saing: You need Satan. I feel sorry for you. You never know, Satan could give you a change of heart and make you realize that he's real and not that fake God. Satan, please BLESS Nahkalah and reval yourself to her please!
The amount of arrogance needed to say someone could enjoy HEAVEN without you being there is astronomical 😂😂 my guy really think he's his mother's life and joy lol that's a good mama but please believe baby boy if it's you or Jesus, your mom is picking Jesus 10 out of 10 times🤷🏽♂️🙏🏽
@@robertdewhurst9031by leaving your history behind when you move on. No one said that the end of the Bible is the end of the story. Eternity is a long time and there will be alot to do. One more thing so many forget, hell gets destroyed when the war is over.
@robertdewhurst9031 same way a child can enjoy their dessert while their sibling gets punished. You know what you did and had the option to meet me up here, AND I told you multiple times what you needed to do but instead you wanted to do your own thing, so now you get to for eternity 🤷🏽♂️
@@robertdewhurst9031when you are a part of Gods plan, thats all that matters. The creator of the universe, supercedes everything. God made it very clear in the bible, if you choose to live in your sins and not repent or seperate yourself from God. You put yourself in hell, and there is no one to blame but yourself. Also the bible even mentions how to avoid all that, so fairness should not be a conflict if everyone has access to a bible.
Honest question. Are theists capable of honestly representing atheism? Theist debaters and commenters CONSTANTLY take the basic concepts and twist them so they can dismiss them, apparently.
@@AOH2008 honest question. Have you ever listened to any atheist call-in show or watched any debate between an atheist and a theist? Pick your poison. I don't think I've ever heard a theist that engaged honeatly. Commenters on the theist side of debates too. I think you'd be hard pressed to find theist who engage honestly with atheists. If you don't see it, maybe brush up on some elements of logic, and logical fallacies.
@@themartialartsapproach8786 That's a fallacy of composition, and a non sequitur. First, it does not follow that theists engage dishonestly because they're theists. Second, your experience is limited by human limitations. You can't honestly say that a subset of the theist population represents all theists, everywhere, especially when we're all different in so many ways. I also have to wonder why I have to listen to any atheist call-in show. There's always one more thing you can say I should consider, regardless of the validity of my position, just like I could say there's always one more book, video, call-in show, etc., that you haven't considered. The arguments are the same, and have been refuted repeatedly over at least the past 2,000 years. Can you honestly say that you have a brand new argument that has never been encountered before, which can't be refuted? Of course, I have hope that you will be an honest interlocutor about this whole discussion...
@AOH2008 I didn't say theists don't engage honestly BECAUSE they're theists. It's that, after watching countless hours of debates and listening to hundreds of hours of call in shows, reading theist comments on their channels, talking with theists, and growing up in the church, I can't think of a single time one engaged honestly. Has it happened? Of course. Is it rare? It certainly seems to be. So your composition fallacy accusation is also false. And as a starter, a classic example of misrepresentation is, "you atheists think that something came from nothing." Or there's "I know you're mad at god, but that's no reason to lead others astray," or, "you guys can't have morality if it doesn't come from a higher power," or "you guys just wanna be able to do whatever you want and sin as much as you want. That's why you rebel against god." Maybe you don't want to listen to an atheist call-in show, but just pick your favorite theist channel talking about atheists and start checking my list.
@themartialartsapproach8786 one thing I learned about communication is that the meaning of communication is the response you get. What about your communication would have given me that impression?
He needs saving like Christians need Vishnu, and I'm guessing you're not worried about your soul being stuck in a cycle of samsara right? The only people that need to worry about going to hell are the people that believe in it.
The level of ignorance in the comments section blows my mind, then I remember Ive been in the position of holding on so tightly to a fantasy despite the strong feeling in my gut that I was wrong
Even if there is a god, or a spiritual world with spiritual beings, that does not necessitate that humans have a life after death. Did humans have a life before birth?
Mike's "wife" is actually a man, in a dress. Mike, like most humans, is living his life in complete and utter opposition to Christ and therefore rejects all that Christianity entails; this isveey common, I know because I lived the first part of my life this way, as a lesbian. Praise Yeshua, I am saved and have repented from that lifestyle, as it's an abomonation. I am so grateful to have been saved by His grace and love. I have only a few regrets, one major one is that I led so many astray when I was living that lifestyle, surrounded myself w like minded sinners to help alleviate my conscience to this terrible sin. Praying for Mike and his "husband" that they will repent and be saved.
@@RBoas well, I think it's usually Theists that give the same answers from the same playbook. Mostly in the line of - "if we can't explain something, then it must be God". This removes the need for deep thought into alternative possible explanations.
The proof Cliff speaks about is non existent. The gospels were written in Greek in another part of the world by people that never met Jesus 40-60 years after he died. Jesus was a Palestinian Jew who spoke Aramaic not Greek. The people who wrote the gospels used the Septuagint which was written in Greek which were a direct translation from Hebrew, the word virgin was mistranslated from the word for young girl. “The Bible was written by sand strewn women and men who thought the earth was flat and a wheel barrow would be ground breaking emergent technology” Sam Harris
If there is a designer God..then he is a very bad designer..many babies borned have illnesses, deformed lips..hole in the hearts..etc..many young children have poor eyesight etc..
@@baronwaggoner3702 I’ve been looking my whole life. I’m begging to see actual proof. Christian’s only tell me hypotheticals, philosophy, or tell me about their experience they can’t explain that I can easily explain.
Cliff as well as being the most unconvincing apologist of all, is also the most annoying. And it seems he has managed to indoctrinate his so as well, who is also a pastor. He failed miserably in this debate, and should have known better than debate Dillahunty, he had no chance.
No chance? This was a debate. Not a competition. No chance to what? Win? There was never a win or lose. It’s to exchange ideas. Cliffe wasn’t trying to convince him of anything. He was answering the questions in response to Matt. He was very respectful. If you were annoyed, then you likely arnt being open minded.
You explain it by giving a more logical rephrasing to the question. “How do you explain centuries of people believing in a cause and purpose passed down through centuries of word of mouth and writings and using what they learned to come to the conclusion and attempt to fill the gaps of to things they couldn’t understand or explain somehow had to be a result of the things they learned about because that’s what they were taught and they can’t imagine thinking any different now, even today?”
Religion is very heavily rooted in emotion. When a pastor tells a naive person that if they don’t worship the lord they’ll burn for all of eternity, they’re trying to evoking an emotional response of fear in order to get them to follow their beliefs. If they tried to preach using facts, they would never start talking because there are none.
@@shore-cityfilms if there was a God in the first place,y would cliff even show up..... it's all about the money..... God would never aloud atheist better christian..... y because there is no God......cliff can never win
@@Jimwade-qi6pythats under assumptions about God. Doesnt make any sense to say "God doesnt exist because he hasnt revealed himself in xyz manner" cliffee could have totally done this just solely for money(which i completely disagree with). Doesnt really change whether or not God exists
What the hell is cliffe talking about. He says stuff that seems to make sense but as he keeps talking it makes no sense. He just begging the question over and over
This is what god means to me: It is the energy created by interaction between all things that exist, which make them not separate things, but one thing. It is not above all of it or us, but between. It is not an authority guiding all of those interactions, it just is. It is to be cherished, and hopefully cultivated, because this enables our survival and the continued development of complexity and symbiosis of this great ecosystem of existence, which makes life rich. Do I believe there is an actual electrical current or spirit floating between us? Well, I believe that the metaphor is so perfect that it becomes real.
As usual, the Christian speaker is disingenuous, and speaks as though he is speaking to children. No critically thinking person thinks Cliff is making any good points whatsoever.
Happy to see Cliff taking another massive L when he isn’t debating sociology and psychology sophomores. His constant ramblings on “evidence” is embarrassing; he’s a grown man that doesn’t understand that claims aren’t evidence, and to Matt’s own point you can find a lot more people providing a similar testimony to alien abduction than you can find in the Bible of people who ACTUALLY KNEW the living Christ (which is TWO, TWO people if you’re keeping score at home).
@@HDShayThePro mad that you made no points or rebuttals and your feelings were so hurt you had to come back to make another useless reply? Sure thing buddy. I’m seething.
"To the question of whether I believe in God, if we were in court I'd object on the ground that the question assumes a fact not in evidence." -Vincent Bugliosi-
That doesn't really work. If the question were, "do you you assume the fact of god's existence," then it would apply. A question regarding belief only assumes the possibility of existence.
Anyone is free to have a relationship with an imaginary friend(god). Jesus was a failed apocalyptic prophet. Both Jesus and Paul expected God to bring the kingdom to earth in their lifetimes, or very shortly thereafter. They were wrong. There are many benefits to a Jesus lifestyle, but the theology behind it all is not true. When we die, nothing happens. You will never know. Make the most of this world. This is all there is.
If Christianity, which challenges all human temptations and calls people to a higher moral standard, were false, how could it endure for over 2,000 years and transform countless lives? Dismissing God as imaginary ignores both the philosophical evidence for His existence and the personal experiences of billions. Jesus wasn’t a failed prophet; His resurrection and the unstoppable growth of Christianity affirm His message of a present and future Kingdom. While Paul anticipated Christ’s return, he emphasized faithfulness without presuming the timing. The claim that nothing happens after death is an unprovable assumption; the resurrection uniquely challenges that view, offering hope beyond this life.
you know when he talks about having real record now and not back then? so if in a 1000 years people will believe what happened in today's days, then what do we believe happened around 3000 years ago?🤔
Dude such a good statement! I struggle with death big time. Been really working on having a relationship with God. Not so I can have eternal life but to have a relationship with him.
@@ethanharris7694 thank you and I’m so glad you’re searching for a relationship with God. Death is something we all will have to face one day for sure. If you haven’t heard of Paul washer look him up on here and listen to his “shocking message” it’s deep and full of truths. Another good pastor to listen to is John McArthur. Take good care!
Yes, but humans assign value to that car, and each person does so subjectively based on their personal preferences. The car is not worth the same for everyone.
I disagree. Not that your logic is wrong, but there may be a case where that could be. Better put, without an evaluator, there is no value. Without Matt, the car has no value. This will always be true.
Dude I don’t know what is I just believe I don’t go to church and my brother dose not believe at all. He’s one of the smartest people I know and for some reason it hurts my heart when he talks about it. (not believing) I’m not sure if it’s my parents or what it kinda messes with me. Built in. I originally wanted to awnser though just because I kinda agree in a sense that he just talks at people.
The only thing that makes sense, is that if God does in fact exist, he no longer cares about us. It’s the only way to explain the bad things that are allowed to happen. He either doesn’t exist, or He does, just just doesn’t care.
Fascinating how Cliffe's entire set of arguments completely bypass Matts' logic and reason. He presents endless strawman arguments and false equivalences, simplifying complex issues around historical evidence, and somehow concluding that this evidence supports theological premises. He's points are a complete mess of traditional apologetics that are always presented as if they are totally logical and rational. Matt however, actually is, simply rational and logical, making no claims beyond what is reasonable and observable. Although I once was an avid apologist, I now cringe at how we were trained to gaslight and twist simple logic to fit our own rhetoric
That isn't right at all. The fact that many disciples of the early church choosing death over recanting their statements and beliefs is very powerful. There is plenty of evidence that they existed and died for their beliefs even though they were offered a way out. Who would die a terrible death for a made up story? How is that gaslighting anyone?
@@jefjaeger Millions of martyrs have died for countless different causes and religions. This is just another of those strawman arguments that apologetics throws around. I totally understand your passion about this though. I was well trained in apologetics over my 40 years as a Christian, including a couple of years at bible college, so I'm very well versed in all the twists and turns of logical gymnastics that are presented to defend the faith. Perhaps the bigger questions to ask are around our obsessions with creating religions in the first place.
@@JimMarjoram Or you can believe that the entire universe and everything in it just invented and created itself randomly with absolutely no purpose at all. Your choice.
@@jefjaeger Who cares either way 😏 But seriously, you didn't actually engage in any meaningful way to my response, rather, you just moved to the next point on the list of standard rhetoric. The comment about random vs designed is a tired cliche these days. The reality is that we are learning more and more about the nature of "what is" and even time itself at the quantum level. So much so that the whole idea of the universe being "created" at some point is becoming moot. I would suggest taking some time out to learn as much as possible about the cutting edge research in theoretical physics, particularly in the field of quantum physics. But when doing this research, it's important to drop our assumptions and confirmation biases, being open to anything that may challenge us, and honestly, as a Christian this is incredibly difficult to do.
@@JimMarjoram 'Who cares either way' pretty much reveals your attitude about this subject. If understanding the purpose to your life is of no value to you, of course you are going to go with what is hip and trendy in the world. The spiritual world doesn't exist to you. My comments are not 'tired cliche' or 'moot'. They stand up perfectly. You can come up with more complex explanations of how things invented and created themselves all you want, but it is still completely a matter of the universe either being the product of intelligent design, or simply popping into existence completely on its own. With planning and purpose, or completely arbitrary. It is a huge deal, not 'who cares'. I will trust God over man's wisdom every time.
My favorite argument is, "What is the purpose of life?'" because I read and understood Emanuel Swedenborg, the purpose of life is God's purpose, to fill His Heavens with Angels.
I actually like the fact Cliffe is debating a well known atheist instead of college students.
It really helps the college students though!
Just proves that he’s down to tussle, reveals his faith even more tbh
The college students have better takes honestly
Debating students actually has a chance of accepting the word and spreading the word through their conversations with Cliff. A well-known Atheist would probably stick with his ideals because he is famous for it.
Cliff doesn't debate students he goes to the university to preach the word of God & the students are the ones that come with questions & doubts he simply tells them what the Bible says & what Jesus preached
Listening to this debate I've come to one conclusion, the difference between the atheist and the Believers is gratitude. The Atheist sees a beautiful flower and thinks that's a beautiful flower. The believer sees a beautiful flower and thanks God for their eyes, thanks God for the sunlight, thanks God for this beautiful creation, thanks God for this life and the chance to experience this beautiful flower.
And then goes next door to butcher his neighbor just because he believes the same thing but has a different God in mind, this is not to say that an atheist is better just to say that believers are no better, and most of the time even worse.
Seeing the beauty in a flower as an atheist does not require gratitude towards an imaginary being. But gratitude for being alive and for having the life that you have or having gratitude for actual real people around you is not absent among atheists. Using a bad example where the only difference between your theist and atheist is the presupposition of a god proves nothing but the obvious fact that an atheist will not thank an imaginary being that he doesn’t believe exists. Tells you nothing about an atheists ability to show gratitude
Thanks God? which god? that's your difference between an atheist and a believer?!! are you kidding me😮😅.
@@neojake9389 ur mixing believers with non believers. A believer wouldnt hurt anyone. Just bc this happens doesnt mean one to believe will do it. Thats the same as saying bc some man killed a cat all men kill cats. Doesnt make sense. Someppl can act or even think they believe but action shows not thinking
@@chokobirdwatsmynameive been atheist and now christian i can say they were times i passed a beautiful sunset just by thinking its beautiful rather than thanking its there. And why should u. Being atheist is belieiving everything was created by chances and coincidences so why should u thamk anyone for the beautiful flower if no ones responsible. When i was atheist i like u and other used religion to deny it. Grwoing up was realizing this doesnt make sense. Either u believe in something throuly or u dont.
Why can't presidential debates be like this?
because America's government has become extremely corrupt, too corrupt to have a proper democracy or republic. We see that today especially in the campaigning of Donald Trump and Kamala Harris, they both try and use fear "if you don't vote for me America ends". No matter who is elected, it will cause more unrest
@@ayyy2603 lmao
@@ayyy2603 thats at some point Populism, kinda like what Hitler did
Because the news agencies are owned by foreign companies that wish to manipulate the usa and politicians into doing what their owners wish. The owners are the few but mega rich who want a one world order and announced their plans. You will own nothing and you will like it. The recent changes in the digital domain that make your purchases a purchase to use rather than own are just another step in the plan.
It used to be more like this, until...
Not gonna lie, that one point rocked my world. When he talked about how brain injuries are known for changing someone's whole personality... If you were an atheist & your new self becomes a Christian... Are you still the same person? How would God judge us?
If today I was Matt, and tomorrow I got into a horrible car wreck that turned me into Josh. I'm not "Matt" anymore, but Josh believes... how are we judged? It doesn't necessarily make me question God's existence or anything, but it certainly brings into question how we will be held accountable.
The bible has a simple anwer for this. Everyone will be judged fairly
@@wisetheman1950 yes but what is fair in this context
@@fancypants5371 that is not for me to decide. God has the ultimate moral understanding
@@wisetheman1950so your original comment is a nonanswer. Solution, nobody knows and we’re all guessing
@@johnathanscott4187 And? Are we suppost to know all about God and his judgement. I stated out the most important part, everyone is judged differendly and fairly.
2 minutes in and he already says that he believes an objective morality, that morality doesn't exist just because he says so, but that morality exists because we assign value to things.
That is a self-defeating argument. If things have value because we assign them value, that is not an objective value.
@bizbreakdown1You are incorrect....the meaning of objective, is that there is one truth regardless of how you feel that day. Murder is OBJECTIVELY wrong, Sex trafficking is OBJECTIVELY wrong, do you disagree?....you can play mental gymnasyics if you want, but no good parent is going to say "well that person that kidnapped my child is right in his/her own mind, so who am I to be saddened and angry about it? It's right to them so it's valid...." I mean come on...you could never truly live out a morally SUBJECTIVE lifestyle...because objective morality exists, and it exists because God put right and wrong discernment in us. You know it, no matter how you may spin it.
@@cldaniels7632is killing objectively wrong?? Is there no scenario in which killing someone is the most moral position you could take? Does this transfer to animals as well?
@@johnnybgood7442 My apologies for saying killing instead of murder, but yea, I meant murder is objectively wrong as it can only be murder if it's out of malice, either way, it does require forgiveness.
@@cldaniels7632 I figured, honest mistake. Would you say owning other people as property is objectively wrong?
@@johnnybgood7442 I would, but owning people and slavery took on different meanings in the biblical days. Slavery is objectively wrong though. No person should force/oppress another to do their bidding as we are made in the image of God and are already assigned very high value by God
Why did you cut so much out? The original debate was over 2 hours long. I wonder why…
I know they have another video about this debate. They probably just split it up.
That's how they usually do it. Cut out huge chunks to make the nonbeliever sound uneducated and/or take things out of context to make it seem they agree with the believer.
@metal-z9p I figure they likely just did it so they have more videos. I don't know much about TH-cam's monetization, but it seems to me that if 1mil people watch one video, they make less than if 1mil people watch two.
Cliffe almost gets it.
Probably cause he got handled
So many comments attacking Matt rather than his arguments
His argument makes him look dumb
@@drsprite8650 and what does attacking his character accomplish?
Attack ? I ain’t seen bro get jumped sounds like someone’s sensitive to the truth regardless how you feel
I have (3) letters that completely destroys any of Matt’s so-called arguments:
👉👉👉 D N A 👈👈👈
@@drsprite8650 what?
To all the Christians here, why do you reject other gods except yours? What makes your god real ans others fake?
our God has, I believe, more proof of existence, Jesus Christ actually rose from the dead and there is proof that he did so. Our God lives through the Holy Spirit, other "Gods" do not have that power. That is what I understand so far.
Other Gods believe you have to work to a standard or be a “good person” to go to heaven. Jesus says that we are all born sinner and always fall short of the glory of God so he died on that cross, lived a sinless life and defeated death because he rose up on the third day so that if we believe in what he did we can live in paradise with him.
The reliability of the advocates and figures representing. Jesus is the most reliable person based on the evidence.
Allah is Satan, greatest of deceivers , black rock in Mecca started as Baal worship. Traditional Islam allows adultery, idol worship, and assaulting your wife. Al makarin. Jew is different from jew “ish” Jewish. Why are they known as a adjective and not a definite culture. Look up the khazarian god eaters. Synagogue of Satan. Christ is the only way.
What evidence is there for Jesus? The Bible is a claim of what happened, but it's not actually evidence in itself.
*_It's not a religion. It's a relationship!_*
*Who'd want a relationship with anyone who told you it's **_the only way_** you can avoid having **_their representatives_** throw you into a burning furnace where you'll cry and be in extreme pain? Matthew 13:49, 50*
⁴⁹ So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth,and sever the wicked from among the just, ⁵⁰ and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing an gnashing of teeth. :Mathew 13:49-50.
I don't see what's wrong with this verse. The wicked shall be separated from the just into the furnace. What's wrong with that? Unless you are saying that the wicked shouldn't be separated? Is that what you are implying or not. Please elaborate
@@lexudary. --- *Except the Bible says everyone is wicked so we're all going to hell. EXCEPT for those who are "saved."*
*"Knock knock."*
*"Who's there?"*
*"It's me, Jesus... Let me in."*
*"Let you in why?"*
*"So I can save you."*
*"Save me from what?"*
*"From what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in.*
@gordon3186 no its more like a judge and the judged. The judge gives the prisoner a chance to get out of jail if he follows the simple rules he implaces but if he chooses not to after hearing this then he will go to jail for life.
"Knock knock"
"Whos there"
"Jesus, let me in"
"Why should i let you in?"
"Because i can save you"
"Save me from what?"
"Save you from the doom that awaits you due to the sins you have done"
@@lexudary.--- The "doom that awaits you" is solely of your god's own making; it's he who created hell and he who damns people there.
Civilized judges don't send people to jail for life for jaywalking. Much less to one in which inmates, "...will cry and be in extreme pain there." Matthew 13:50 GWT
@@lexudary.Wicked for using the free will god gives us? What a horrid judge
Cliffe is an incredible God fearing man. God bless you Cliffe
There is nothing incredible about Cliffe!
@scarletdragonflame4941 Jesus Loves you ❤️
@@scarletdragonflame4941actually hes really smart, what i dont like is that people worship him and I've seen that a few times
If you think he is “incredible” im asumming that you are a biggoted goofy🤡😂😬
@@puritay Where and when does the "really smart" kick in?
What do I live for? How do I know it's true?
My atheist response. Friends, family and experiences. Yes, I go to work and make money in an effort to enjoy my time with friends/family and to have experiences that enrich my life but to say that I live for work and financial enrichment? No, I have left higher paying jobs because they interfered with my priorities.
How do I know it's true? I suppose the question is really, how do I know that living for friends, family and experiences is the right way to live my life? So ofncourse what do I (or we) agree on is the "right way to live"? Typically I think this revolves around positive outcomes which of course needs the same definement. So a positive outcome i could describe is happiness. I am happier spending time with friends and family. I am happier when I experience something like visiting an interesting location, holidays, concerts, art, movies, television, etc (experiences). So I live my life spending time with the ones I love, doing the things I love. And that seems to me like a good way to live.
What if making you happy meant you wanted to live like Hitler? What would make that choice objectively worse?
@TheJoeschmoe777 do you think that Hitler got a positive outcome?
That question is for Christians and believers, what is the point of living? Why not 'poof' all babies? Won't they have a better life in heaven. Why do they get sad when people die? People should rejoice
I like this take and I would like to say that if I was an atheist and I wanted to do what made me happy I would do molly and coke all day to feel good. I would do whatever made me happy and whatever felt good. And to me my positive outcome of this would be a constant feeling of euphoria. Something I like to ask atheist is what makes something good or bad. If I kill someone because they do something I don’t like, without a God I fail to see how this is wrong. Just because someone says it may be wrong someone may say it is the right thing to do. I believe the reason we feel right between wrong is because of a God given conscience. Without a God there is no argument for right or wrong, at that point we are simply intelligent animals.
@DonivonPaul Have you ever spent any time considering the paradox of hedonism?
Additionally, what are your thoughts on the Euthyphro dilemma?
Using Mother Theresa as an example of love shows a terrible ignorance of the awful things she did.
What awful things did she do which disqualify her from being an example of love?
@Jujujgd , she had a belief in a subgroup of Catholicism that believed that unfortunate people are destined to suffer throughout their lives because God chose that for them so that they could be saved when they died, so for these kind of people, she only provided them with the least, so that they could basically suffer “in comfort” until they died. A study was conducted on her and her beliefs to confirm this.
@@Jujujgd @doofymusic69 has given a good synopsis. She was taking huge donations in millions of dollars and funnelling it to the church rather than its intended use to provide succour to the poor and suffering whom she treated terribly. There are whole documentaries about this.
@@DoofyMusic69 your subgroup theory was a " MYTH'". actually the criticizes of mother Teresa I mean specially the Christopher hitchens he He deliberately mislead the people. To believe in his conspiracy theories. Mostly the Western readers... I will tell you why
He deliberately ignored the ground realities and the challenges faced by charity organizations in India due to the laws in place at that time. Specifically in the palliative care.. you will definitely hear about the pain management of her charitable organization... And the "theory" Say's she refuse to give Adequate Pain Relief medicine deliberately to patients to make them suffer maximum. Am i right ? And why I saying it's not true.. The answer is NDPS ACT on 1985 in India.. It's impact on pain management, and palliative care.. The Act classifies narcotic drugs, including various opioids like morphine, codeine, and heroin. And strictly regulates it's use... Christopher suspiciously never mentioned about this act in his book or anywhere.. He attempted to place the entire blame on a single person, attributing all the fault on mother Teresa including the one she have nothing to do with... As a indian i will clearly Recommend you to look up into this act deeply ... And the challenge face by her and other charitable organizations in India at that time... Self research is the key... And i am aware of the study you mention.. The specific study you are referring to regarding Mother Teresa in 2013 may not be universally recognized, as many academic.. Because this study was considered as a biased one...This study is considered invalid because it lacks a mention of the beneficiaries of her. By not including the perspectives and experiences of those who received care from Mother Teresa's organizations, the study fails to provide a comprehensive and balanced understanding of her impact. The absence of this crucial group limits the validity of the findings and reduces the study's ability to engage with the complexities of her legacy. Valid research should include diverse voices to ensure a well-rounded analysis... Not just that it is biased because it's Selective Focus, Neglect of Ground Reality, Influence of Preconceived Notions.. The NDPS Act (Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances Act) was amended in 2014 to address several issues related to drug law enforcement and to improve access to narcotic drugs for medical and scientific purposes.
@@DoofyMusic69suffering can bring people closer to God. Its just the matter of the heart. To say God caused it just shows ignorance.
Cliff's discussion about love is interesting. A decision versus "something you fall into."
That is love, its rarely portrayed that way.
I was recently reading about what and how different people define love. Nonbelievers say that love is a feeling we get, while followers of Christ believe it is a choice
@@NataliaMejia-t5r Or at least dopey ones do.
I miss my grandmothers so much. I just needed to hear some words of encouragement from Cliffe.
I'm so grateful for my grandma for leading me to Christ. I miss her.
I'm so grateful for my grandma for leading me to Christ. I miss her.
My grandparents are dead and gone. There is no piece of them left at all, even a version in the afterlife. I find so much comfort in believing that.
@@blaketrent8548 I fear being forgotten, do you fear being forgotten?
@@JohnVictor-dr7m Not at all. Nearly everyone you’ve ever known will be forgotten. Can you name your great great grandfather? He is, likely, completely forgotten. If not him, then his father for sure. I’ll be forgotten in two generations after my death, and that doesn’t bother me at all. I’m genuinely curious, why are you afraid of that?
Matt is the only one making solid points. Cliff is just preaching, which most christains will just eat up.
No he isn't, he stated there is no free will and claimed there is only absolute morality when he stated that humans "give" morality to others. I'd rather watch other atheist then this guy because Matt is all about what ifs and maybe this and that. Never a good argument. Cliff is respectful not much of a debetar which I agree but that doesnt make his claims wrong.
@@strawhatobi4845 you need to look up his definition of absolute morality, because I guarantee it’s not the same thing that you’re thinking of. Matt could’ve done a better job at explaining his definition, but he has said many times that his definition is esoteric.
@@strawhatobi4845I agree. This atheist is just stumbling around in the dark and it is so obvious.
He isn’t preaching at all. Have you ever been to church and listened to a preacher? Most of Matt’s point were just opinion and had no weight or substance to them.
His argument about his mom can’t go to heaven because if he went to hell how could she be happy in heaven knowing her son went to hell. That argument is a fallacy. You see that happen all the time. No one wants to lose a loved one. No one wants to see their mom or dad die, yet many people say they are happy they have finally passed away because they are no longer suffering with cancer. Does that mean that they aren’t the same person because they are happy that their mom/dad has passed away?
To say that there obviously can’t be a heaven because Christians believe there is no more sorrow in heaven is just ridiculous. How many times have you been extremely angry or agitated, but someone or something comes along and soothes you and you no longer have those negative feelings? Heaven could be much the same way, no sorrow their because we are being soothed by the presence of God, or we no longer have to live in a fallen world. There are many explanations of the lack of sorrow in heaven. The one he made just falls flat.
@ you clearly don’t know what a fallacy is. If I’m wrong, please name the exact fallacy that he’s committing there.
Secondly, his point makes complete sense. YOUR point doesn’t make any sense. Some people are “happy” that their parents pass because they believe that their loved one is NOT suffering anymore. Would they feel the same way if they knew their parents were suffering ETERNALLY??? I think not.
Lastly, Cliffe never demonstrated even one time (nor has anyone in history) that heaven is even a real place. Until you do that, you can’t possibly tell me that things like “sorrow” don’t exist. So, please point out the specific fallacy he committed and then how you know heaven is real.
I really liked what Matt Dillahunty had to say, and how he said it. Great explanations for the most part, with sound reasoning!
You mean deceived thinking
@@FollowerOfChrist365 You have been deceived through absence of thinking.
Why should we care what you think? You're nothing, but fertilizer 😂
too bad hes wrong
@@FollowerOfChrist365 Well, actual thinking as opposed to gullible, gawd-damaged delusions.
I don't know who or what created life, and neither does anyone else.
Have you read the bible? Maybe start there and see if God speaks to you.
@idallas4964 the bible was written by various humans over centuries....its simply a book 📖 written by people, and there's debate today about who wrote what ...
@@idallas4964quit acting brash by acting like you’re certain of something that no one can know for sure.
@@idallas4964 I read Matthew and it was very good, but no deity greeted me during reading.
@@Starchaser63do you believe the history books that are taught in schools? Do you believe in evolution? Do you believe that the earth is 100 billion years old? If so, what’s different about those? Because all of those things are written by human beings as well.
What makes history books, and theories of earth’s origin more “factual” or believable than the Bible? Honestly it doesn’t matter who wrote the Bible, if it is truth and the inspired word of God like the Bible says then honestly it doesn’t really matter who wrote it.
Love to hear from both sides!Great debate!
I really would like to watch a conversation between Cliffe and Alex O'Connor
I was just thinking that as scrolling the comments, I hope Alex can one accept Jesus
@@seanyfaulkner7106 he probably will down the line
@@AgnosticThinker you're deluded in more ways than one
100% Alex is probably my favorite atheist skeptic because he is clearly intrigued, we just gotta see if theres any amount of evidence that is plausible which would convince him
@@seanyfaulkner7106I hope you can get past your delusion, bud.
Life is deep and confusing. I Don't really care about money, only reason I want to have money is because I need it to survive. Money eliminates certain problems like shelter, transport, medicine, clothes, food and other things. A Lamborghini is nice but I can't afford it, doesn't mean life is over, I can live without it. I love people, not because I get benefits from them, for example I love my neighbor and he doesn't do anything for me, but I understand that he's also a human who has dreams and faces difficulties like everybody else, but maybe It's because I'm a good person and I treat people the way I would want to be treated, but the confusing part is I sympathise with people who treat me terribly, maybe it's because I have hope that they will change one-day or maybe I understand that as people we are not the same, but than again if there is no God maybe I should just make the feel pain like how they make me feel but than again I hate seeing people in pain, maybe my goodness forces me to believe that there is a God, who will create a place where there is no pain. The one thing that causes me to believe in God is the big bang how did it happen something cannot come from nothing something had to cause it another thing that causes me to believe their is a God is that life has too many coincidences, the relationship between everything is extreme, from plants, to animals, to the people, everything has it's purpose. Why Christianity though because to me it's the one that makes the most sense, if you are someone like me honestly the Bible is actually one of the best gifts God has given us because truly it is a pure guide on how to conquer the world and that's what Jesus came and did. I still remain open minded but for now it is what it is.
beautiful 🫶👏
@@Zizi_Major you don’t really care about money yet I bet if someone offered you £100m you’d take it
Everything that exists came from something. Does god exist? What created your fictitious god? I thought so. Special pleading. None of the so called apostles were eye witnesses to anything. There are stories written that claim that to be true. Stories written at least 100 yrs after the claimed events by anonymous authors who were repeating myths. Mark, Matthew, Luke and John never wrote a word.
@MarlboroughBlenheim1 They literally said they don't care about it but need it to survive in today's world
@@lexudary. as I say, let’s see in reality how they would respond if someone offered them £100m. Would they really give most of it away? History tells us that humans - not least in the church - rather like worldly comforts and pleasures.
13 minutes in, highly recommend anyone interested to research the historicity of the new testament and to review the contradictions in the Bible. Bart Erhman's work is highly recommended and can really open up the door to other scholars and works, deep dive into what we know. I mean, Cliff states at the 12:50ish mark that we have over 5200 Greek manuscripts dated between the 2nd and 10th century A.D. I think a very valid skeptical thought would be, would i trust a source claiming a miraculous event over a hundred years after the event took place. I think Matt's earlier point about how there are people today that will talk about their alien abduction experience being better evidence really hits home.
when i heard Cliff talking about the 5200, he very cleverly left out the copies of the copies of the copies and the non-existance of originals. this is what apologetics do. they leave out certain things or add certain things, hoping that people wont notice and then claim that he did not change anything.
Do you believe Abraham Lincoln existed? If so, why?
@@Smallyardguy really what you want to get at his how to weigh historical evidence.
I believe that you should take a look at the following and spend some time asking historians how they determine the historical accuracy of a claim.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_method
Cut and Pasted the following from the above wiki
Gilbert J. Garraghan and Jean Delanglez (1946) divide source criticism into six inquiries:[3]
When was the source, written or unwritten, produced (date)?
Where was it produced (localization)?
By whom was it produced (authorship)?
From what pre-existing material was it produced (analysis)?
In what original form was it produced (integrity)?
What is the evidential value of its contents (credibility)?
The first four are known as higher criticism; the fifth, lower criticism; and, together, external criticism. The sixth and final inquiry about a source is called internal criticism. Together, this inquiry is known as source criticism.
@@Smallyardguy better question......do YOU believe he existed? and if not , why not?
@Smallyardguy I'm not sure if my original reply posted or not so if this populated twice, I apologize.
I cannot accept that you genuinely want to compare historical evidence between Jesus and Abraham Lincoln so i assume that what is really troubling you is how to determine the historical accuracy of a claim. I recommend doing your own research but I have copied a helpful tidbit to hopefully get you started.
Gilbert J. Garraghan and Jean Delanglez (1946) divide source criticism into six inquiries:
When was the source, written or unwritten, produced (date)?
Where was it produced (localization)?
By whom was it produced (authorship)?
From what pre-existing material was it produced (analysis)?
In what original form was it produced (integrity)?
What is the evidential value of its contents (credibility)?
The first four are known as higher criticism; the fifth, lower criticism; and, together, external criticism. The sixth and final inquiry about a source is called internal criticism. Together, this inquiry is known as source criticism.
- “We’re not special, this planet is not special
Also
-“There are no aliens, all of the testimonies in history are all false”
I’m so glad Atheists are the smartest people
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂Xd
Matt’s point is that we have meaning if someone else loves us. So if someone isn’t lovable they have no meaning?
No value, meaning and value are different things.
@ does my point still stand if you replace meaning for value?
@@danielwarton5343 not sure if you're point remains valid, maybe it does, but it does change the significance.
@@A_Stereotypical_Heretic you’re right. I should have said value and not meaning, Matt did say meaning.
In the sense that we have value as a person isn’t dependent on wether we’re loved or not. Either value is intrinsic or it is assigned.
If someone isn’t lovable then do they have less value than someone who is? a what makes someone lovable? Many people loved and admired Charles Manson. I’m not saying that he had less value than Elvis, a well loved contemporary. Either they were valuable as people in their intrinsic value or they weren’t
@@danielwarton5343 honestly, I don't know what makes a person valuable. Id like to say positive contribution to their surroundings, but value is so subjective who knows? 🤷 Meaning is definitely something a person grants to themselves, and it should be that no one can give nor take that away from them. It's unfortunate we live in a time when so many depend on others to feel meaningful.
Why cant people just stop arguing and just learn to love eachother. Its a simple solution because it appeals to both religeous views.
he says do good things because it’s “the right thing to do” but what necessarily makes it the “right thing” to do
Reduction of harm and promotion of wellbeing. What is moral is dictated by physics and biology once we agree on promoting wellbeing as a goal.
The consequences
Are you saying it’s wrong to murder only because of consequences?
@@russellmiller5609 so if you weren’t jailed for murder. it would be just completely okay to murder people?
@@tylerloop6448 yes if murdering someone didn't hurt them or cause any harm or damage to anyone it wouldn't be crime . actions are bad because of what they cause.
A book of unknown authors is not evidence. The claim is the bible. The evidence is outside of that. It's not Rocket science
How do we know that ancient egypt existed?
According to whom specifically?
The author is god
@@christianalvarez9635nice red herring fallacy! These two things are kind of similar but are definitely very differing. We don’t have a big book of in detail stories about ancient Egypt, we have some of what we think to be pretty historically accurate evidences. Like mummified remains, indicating a part of their culture. Then we made inferences. Which is why, in history books, phrases like “it’s believed” will get used a lot. The stakes are also lower. If we aren’t correct on a lot of the information about ancient Egypt, it’s not that big of a deal. With religion, wars have been fought, and many many many people have died. The evidence in regards to Christianity is essentially nonexistent. And as opposed to taking the source material with a grain of salt, Christians often use the Bible as this end all be all “evidence.”
@@christianalvarez9635We literally have the pyramids, my guy.
Cliff is a master of circular reasoning. "It is so because the bible says so....". No evidence, no logical reasoning. Start with the facts.
Can you point out what part of the discussion youre referring to? Cliff did bring up the argument on the scriptures reliability, but they never went to far with it because they were trying to cover a lot of topics in a short amount of time
You must be deaf. Matt has not presented any evidence supporting his ‘disbelief’.
@@BornofFire117 Matt doesnt need to prove Cliffs beliefs false, they are his claims to prove true. If Matt wants to offer a different claim, he has to prove that. The discussion in general was based more of logical deductions from either sides general beliefs rather than full on debating the evidences and facts.
When did Cliff ever claim that anything is because it is? Cliff also never said anything about anything being true because the Bible says so. You are as intellectually dishonest as Matt. Seek Jesus. Shalom 🙏✝️❤️
@SammichLS
That is literally what @BornofFire117 was addressing. Matt never gave any evidence to support his beliefs or "unbeliefs". Cliff gave clear evidence for his beliefs. Seek Jesus. Shalom 🙏✝️❤️
Matt came to debate. Cliff could only preach.
Explain please? Because Clint does in game in answering questions ontop of the debate he’s not just preaching the word
Exactly
@@AcksgoOnReptiles You weren’t listening. 👂
@@Ioulou66 I disagree. I thought Cliff was pretty clear on what his beliefs are based on. A person who simply doesn't want to even consider God's existence and the implications of that will simply dismiss any explanation or reason...
Cliffe knows that debates don't win people with logic; they win people with emotion. Matt just wasn't as good. That's what really gets you, isn't it?
What are you living for? - To become the best version of myself as I understand that to be.
What evidence do you have that is true? - BS question because The Goal is not "True". The Goal is asserted as a personal value of the individual. So in that capacity it is an "Accurate" statement of the individual's goal to the question you asked, "What are you living for?".
The actual correctly worded 2nd question is, "What makes you think that is the goal you should value to work towards?" Because, again, its a personal goal to each individual. As we learn and grow as individuals and as a person that impacts others in society, we may completely throw out that goal or just refine it to be more precise.
All Cliffe is getting at for that 2nd question is, "How do you know your current goal for what you are living for is the actual ultimate goal you should be working towards?". Well once you discover an understanding as to why your answer to that question is wrong, then you should update your answer. If you dont, like how religious people refuse to update their understanding of reality, then you're picking your ideology over reality. You're living in a world of Wishful thinking. Adults dont do this. We may pick goals that we may never reach, like the ideal version of ourselves, but that doesnt mean that goal is unobtainable or not based in reality at all.
This is all what Cliffe does. He uses language in ways that most people dont use these terms for or creates questions that are not actual accurate questions to the topic. Its all just Equivocation fallacies over word use just so that he can sound insightful and "spiritual" guru BS.
Notice how Cliffe uses common everyday occurrences that we all experience as an equivalent experience of lots of people claiming to experience a supernatural event. Sorry but 100s of people claiming to explain an experience via magic is not at all equivalent to everyone describing an experience within the known properties of reality. Everyone getting in a car crash is not the same as everyone experiencing a magical event. Oh yeah drinking a Dr Pepper is just as common place as as casting a level 3 healing spell as a cleric of your favorite deity. Those experiences are the same right?
Christian's anti-slave argument doesn't hold any water. Paul had mercy on one guy he never once said free the slaves. Jesus didn't say Free the slaves either. Meanwhile Leviticus makes it very clear that you could buy and own human beings for life, as long as they weren't Hebrew.
Yea, it really doesn't. I work with a guy who is a preacher and I will qoute Christ, in an attempt for a better peaceful world and he'll qoite Paul. Paul is just writing from inspiration he isn't the word of god.
Every theologian in history who has studied the Bible disagrees but good thing you came here to prove them all wrong! Just by glancing over some verses too that’s impressive
People that actually believe the bible dosent hold argument for anti slavery is amazing. Just show you haven’t even studied such views and still came into the internet throw your opinion, which is fine. The internet wouldn’t be such a bad influence if people actually looked up things before saying, which could make a blank minded person pick that up, and also starting to throw arguments with no base what so.
@@JesusIsKing_OohMoises I studied the Bible for over 20 years. Try again dude.
If the Bible was so clear about anti-slavery, why did it took the Christian world more than 1400 years to abolish it? And the argument of Wilberforce is weak, the slave owners were also Christians and they justified their policy on the Bible too. In the British Parliament everyone was Christian and it took many years for Wilberforce to pass his law. The Aglican church released a statement on 2020 admitting that some Christians at that time were against the abolition of slavery (which was a diplomatic way to say that the majority was against).
My man said “how many people believe in aliens? Not me. “
👀
Congress believe in Aliens now though 🤷🏻♂️
😂
Exactly dude. Literally aliens are real the usaf believes
No they don't...
@ You must have missed it the hearing 😂
Physical evidence to me would be stuff like the ground I'm standing on and the intricacy of How It's All atoms and molecules down to the grains of sand as well as the water in the sea or the water we drink and how all the medicine that we've ever needed to survive Humanity up until this very Point has either been discovered or yet to be discovered but it's already here. The immense intricacy of our DNA, the origin story of how I literally breathe, the origin of how gravity is here and how it was created, how all of our feelings as human beings are the same emotions just in different ways due to us being individuals. In my humble opinion my God has made himself known blatantly to my face even if I can't see him physically I think about Thomas and how Jesus told him blessed are the ones who haven't seen and still believe. Stuff like how it describes a covenant of a book that was written over 2000 years ago that describes a rainbow in the sky that we see to this very day. How we have discovered things that have been true that have been from a book that was written that long ago. Regardless if it's been handed down as a game of telephone, it is literally the best and most accurate game of telephone that's ever been recorded. How can we understand Heavenly things if we already don't understand the Earthly things? How we dream, the smells on the planet, how everything has life, literally. He is my Lord and Savior and if anyone has any questions I would love to answer as best as I could. But if you also ask questions that I cannot answer nor can you there shouldn't be blame that I believe that it becomes Divine knowledge. While we can explain what things are that does not mean that we have the origin of how things can be made. If you don't understand that then break it down into the very most minute thing that you can think of and it just comes back to atoms and molecules and how bacteria works and basically the most basic form of quantum mechanics. While we understand little about quantum mechanics that does not mean we understand the origin stories of how every single thing that we have on this planet got here. I, for myself, believe that was my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ that created all of the entire universe and everything within it.
Perfectly said brother
@@SwoozPlaysMC Or sister?
@SwoozPlaysMC definitely, brother 😆
There’s a fallacy there though, or at least you’re missing the point. Evidence that there is a ground and trees and atoms supports the idea that there are grounds, trees, and atoms. You can’t infer further to say that there must have been a being that created all of this. We don’t know if there was a being that created all of this. But if you start from the conclusion that a being created all of this, you will find mountains and mountains of “evidence” that actually don’t mean anything.
We live because we live Cliffe. Reasons for our survival and our happiness is something else. Reasoning with your brain to eat and hydrate sustains one's existence. People have reasons for many things that stimulate and benefit the lives that they live. If the reason for you Cliffe, is the need for a God that gave you your life comforts you, then so be it. That doesn't make your God belief true. Hopefully you're just adding a reason among other reasons to live. It seems that your God belief is your ultimate belief to live, and you contaminated your son with that mentality, which can possibly inhibit critical thinking and rationality. Both of which are beneficial to the truth and decision making for survival.
Religion on its own is IMMORAL.
It's a relationship with Jesus, not religion.
You know Cliffe isn't as humble as he should he since his view on what happens after death is either A or B. No possiblity of anything beside A or B, he's close minded and its so obvious.
Ok then you come with other possibilities of after death and give use the evidence of how you came to that conclusion 😂
"After death you turn into a star"
Ok well where is the evidence of C?
@@medicisounds1384You missed the point. It's okay to not know what happens after death. Why can't we just say that we don't know what happens after death because we dont have any evidence? Cliff lays out his belief of what happens after death but isn'topen to any other ideas. Atleast this is what I interpreted the original comment as.
@ He literally says constantly that he doesn't know.
No one knows.
But he claims that the evidence according to Jesus (God) is that there is an afterlife.
He says constantly he is open to other possibilities, but the evidence is never quite superior to the evidence of afterlife and eternal life.
Just going around saying idk and idc what happens is a scary way to live. Because what if there is an afterlife wouldn't you want eternal life? I daydream everyday of living for eternity. Immortality! Would be amazing.
So if there's a chance at that i am going to look for that.
You should watch more of his videos. You wouldnt have typed this if you did.
It’s called being convinced of something. And being convinced of something is okay. He’s not closed minded, he’s sticking to what he’s seen to be true. And what he believes. You can’t believe in God AND believe that nothing happens if you die. You got to pick something.
I feel I have much more meaning in my life as an Atheist. My mind is clear and not confused. I see reality better and have no need to think magically. More stable minded and definitely more FREE.
That's good. I'm not atheist but closer to agnostic. I will say this the Christian belief in god is so asinine it baffles me how dumb they sound sometime.
But isn’t the most rational position in regards to freedom for the atheist determinism? Which is literally in itself the OPPOSITE of freedom? Interested to hear your thoughts
@@samuelzapata4151 An Atheist can have all different philosophies they may or may not agree with. My thinking does not align with determinism in any rigid way, although I do think there is some aspects of life that are determined from things in the past. There are things we cannot control. I do not think about determinism at all, in fact this is the first time even chatting about it. My emphasis is on mental wellbeing and having a stable rational mind as best I can, given my personal situations. I used to be Christian and used to give up control of my life to an ideology and a God that I thought ruled over the whole world. I wanted to make decisions based on what I thought a God wanted me to do. Now as an atheist, I trust my own thoughts and am free to explore different ideas and feel I have much more control over my own life and brain. No demons or angels or other invisible undetectable entities trying to jump into my mind. I am not frightened by anything anymore and I really mean anything. I focus on things I do have some control over and do not wonder what a God may or may not be doing, so my mind is clearer. I trust my thought processes more. No guilt or shame. I feel more grounded to reality. I feel whole. My life is better. I treat other people better because I see them as human beings rather than through the lens of a God BELIEF.
@@Eman-wj8gq عربي؟
@@ibrahimelmasry-z3k fnnsjsdjcbe
Even the most ardent atheists had near death experience that made them change their mind about God and the after life. You see-- if you were right that there is no God, then we both have nothing to lose..but if we were right that God exist, then we have a lot to gain and you have got a lot to lose--your one and only soul. So why would you risk your soul, your eternal life for something you are not sure about? As it is written: "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment." Hebrews 9:27
Pascal's Wager again? Really dude?
@@Maksie0Hell awaits. Humility is what will lift the veil off your eyes, sparing your soul from eternal damnation in hell.Jesus is the only path to life, my friend.Seek God and you will find Him.
@@mikeygarcia8271 You're talking a bunch of complete nonsense.
@Maksie0 Until you see the spirit realm like I did..which you will witness by the way. It's just a matter of time.I hope you're no longer an atheist before that day comes.
@@Maksie0 One day, you yourself will witness what other former atheists discovered that made them believe in God and the afterlife.I hope it will not be too late for you..because time is ticking away...
Might have been a good debate if it weren’t chopped up, incomplete and full of ads. Fail on behalf of the poster.
“I mean come on” lol is “just believe me bro” energy
i think it means “how have we fallen into this much denial” but go off
Nope big bang can’t be proven
Idk about that champ
Why does Cliffe go on saying I can assure you, I can promise you on and on? We don't need your assurance. Just give evidence Cliffe.
Are u deaf? He said go seek for yourself bruh. How can u trust what he says? By going and seeing for yourself🤯🤯🤯🤯 wow
Seek for yourself
@@justinalvarado1788 Seek what, how and where? Inside your head?
@@Samuel-lg2tzjust live your life and ignore em dude. You can't reason with unreasonable people
@@Samuel-lg2tzhe says read the gospels as historical narrative and decide if Jesus is reliable or not
Do you see how Cliffe is in preacher mode whilst Matt is explaining his position. It is important with preachers that they put on a performance so that the audience is emotionally stirred up. If they were to explain without the theatricals people might realise how absurd they really are.
cliffe is speaking in front of an audience like he knows how… who are you to say he is preaching when he is clearly in a debate? what theatricals are you insinuating??
You are the prime example of "emotions rather than logical thinking"
@jacobmason4225 don't listen to this clown, either hes a troll or a bot
Well brotha all a Christian can do is present the gospel of salvation out of love and consideration for the hearer, none of us have authority or power to convince a non believer. That power and decision is left to God alone. You can criticize to your fill. God is just making sure ALL folks have heard the message before judgement day. God bless
@@juann-nada amen brother, spoken like a true believer ❤️
Ultimately, it's a matter of locus of authority. Does man, either collectively or individually, determine truth, or is universal, objective truth able to be communicated to man from outside man's epistemological constraints?
Even if you could prove this god exists, you would have to admit that this god drowned babies, turning them into bloated, floating bird and fish feeders, all the while watching this horrible suffering and thinking that it is for the best. This is not moral. It's an act of an apparently very fallible being... even with all the omnis.
He exists for sure and you should get to know him - he will give you unique insight into the suffering (via his word) that happens on this planet.
Actually, there is no mention of babies at all in Genesis 6-9. Rather, the people killed are mentioned as being violent and shedding blood.
I mean.. what makes you the person to determine what is objectively moral? If it's not you, what is it? The consensus? The consensus said that sacrificing child a few centuries ago was fine. I'm curious as to what gives you the ability to determine this is evil.
searches on google: "worst lines in the bible" and proceeds to assume these things without logic
Let’s pray for him
Not really gonna change anything. He already addressed that even if your god is somehow real, he disagrees with his morals.
@ God Bless You I will pray for you also
@IBelieve777-m1u No thank you.
@ I will still pray
@IBelieve777-m1u Okay, I don’t respect your religion and the ideology you follow, but you are human like me. Do what makes you happy.
I love Matt. I totally get what he's trying to convey everytime.
Guy makes some amazing points. I saw another debate with him and cliffe and boy does he really go at him.
@@Eman-wj8gqyou may be bias for one party. Similar to politics
Exodus 21:16 KJV - And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death."
The bible forbids slavery.
Great more appeal to emotion. Most preachers love that one. Play the emotional music, start chanting, FEEL the god inside you. Awesome, more cult behavior. Works on the indoctrinated and those who do not use critical thinking.
They really do huh play some soft music in the back ground to influence one. Lol
1:34 “ it’s a strawman to claim that I think slavery is bad just because I say so”
- Proceeds to say people are valuable because another person says so.
Religion: Murder is bad because god said so.
Him: “Murder is bad because I value human life, and I didn’t need another person or higher power to convince me of that. I even disagree on the morality of your higher power, since he was okay with slavery and genocide in his teachings, and I am against it.”
You completely missed the point he was making.
@ buddy, you’re saying that as a product of modern human culture, probably western culture, and probably from a position of relative comfort, at least without real daily desperation. Cultures that believe what you “just know” have been totally infused with ideas like that by religion after thousands of years of “might makes right.”
Even in western nations all one needs to do is see what happens when society begins to break down just a little bit and lots of people start justifying murder (I know a lot of people justifying a guy named Luigi who shot a CEO in the back, for example, and non of them are religious).
The POINT, as you say, is that these ideas need to be religious so that they are not jettisoned at the first sign that “the chips are down.”
It’s nice for you that you’re privileged and safe enough to “just know” that murder is wrong, as if you came up with that in a vacuum, but there are plenty of people in American inner cities and plenty of cultures around the world who believe that the right to kill comes with having power.
C’mon man.
My philosophy professor once said.. “no matter reflects upon itself.”
This is such a beautiful statement. I'm stealing this.
this just demonstrates that philosophy professors are not smarter than anyone else
@@tzenophile that's a good point. Whoever this person who is smarter than anyone else, I'd be stoked to meet them..
And you thought that was profound? Such an obvious, tautological deepity? Really?
@@highroller-jq3ix yup. My guilty pleasure. I do find profound things in the mundane. I find joy in my own naïveté
For me a butterfly proves design 🦋 The metamorphosis process has too much evidence because you have to know where you are going to end up even before you get started. Think about that. 🤔
Atheism is the lack of belief without evidence. Faith is belief in spite of lack of evidence. Atheism is the more honest and truth seeking view so I followed where the evidence took me, not where the stories told me to go.
true belief does require evidence. blind belief doesn’t.
@@saiyanrivals1612and Christianity is blind belief.
An Atheist says, "There's no proof of God. A Christian says, "I believe there is a God." Believing that something exists, is not proof.
Yup. Believing without evidence can be a blind belief.
But if God directs prophets such as Isaiah, Micah, Zechariah, Daniel, David etc etc to prophesy that after hundreds of years a Messiah will come, will live a certain life and die by crucifixion hundreds of years before crucifixion was even a invented, and rise on the third day AND exactly like that hundreds of years later Jesus comes and live exactly as predicted, and die exactly as prophesied on the Cross and resurrects on the third day, I believe my faith is based on true evidence from the divine and my belief is not blind.
@Hmmjfifif what God? You use a premise with no substance or proof of existence and demand all logic begins with your assumed conclusion. How are you blatantly this inept? You are instantly made obvious as a blind follower, if you can't discern fact from opinion, it's no wonder people demean your view point.
Someone get Cliffe to debate Alex O'Connor!!! I love them both and think it would be a very productive conversation
There was a debate? He was just preaching.
All you guys have to do now, is prove that your God exists.
All you have to do is accept the proof when given. Oh but you would t do that even if proof were given it’s a choice.
All you have to do is realize everything exploding out of nothing is ridiculous.
@@drivebysnapshots
When did I make that claim?
@@mpcrelaxmusic
You never gave any proof at all.
Well that was easy.
19:37 at the point of conception there is a flash of light that is when the soul enters the fertilized egg
At the point of nonsense, there is a laughable break with coherent reality.
I *love* the circular statements of Cliffe. Good times, reminds me of the old debate where Cliffe went to immediate shouting and insults.
He should stick to faith. When he tries to use logic he sounds like a complete dunce to anybody who doesn't share his beliefs. Im surprised matt would even entertain a conversation with cliffe.
@@biggentallen Exactly, he should stay in his area and keep debating college students.
How about you link the full debate video instead of blatantly stealing it from the original channel. Its from Science Debate btw.
I serve God the creator, the author an I serve our lord an savior yeshua ❤
But why?
@@yourguard4I Don't I Have Freedom
Well I Don't I Serve Customers in A Cafa Not God
@@yourguard4I Don't Because I Have Freedom Not To Serve God
@@yourguard4I Don't Serve God
There have been some excellent atheist debaters, such as Christopher Hitchens. This guy ain't one of em. He is making the most r/atheism arguments I have ever heard
Matt is using sales tactics. Asking a bunch of agreeable questions to get to a desired response.
1) You can't begin to accept religion/faith until you understand that nothing didn't create something. Once you understand that a designer created your very complex body, you will embrace the love that your creator has for you. 2) Only one religion can be true or all are false because they all contradict each other. (The law of non-contradiction) Default to these two truths often as you search for your creator. My advice is to read about the Gospel. There is no other story so beautiful given to mankind. I'll respect any choice you make but I will also pray that you look into this matter. God Bless!!
So be a Muslim.
Everyone knows there’s a God it’s fear and pride that won’t let them admit to it.
I don't believe something came from nothing. I dont know the answer, which is the only intellectualy honest position to take.
@@Simon-nv5zjso how do you denounce god if you really don’t know. Atheists claim to be smart but it’s 50-50 this was made by god or by coincidence. Most of the time there is a complex creation there is always a sentient being behind the creation . So evidence points that life was made by a higher power the complexity behind life itself is too much of coincidence to be “random”
@ignaciomendez5669 i don't denounce god. I don't believe in your claim that a God exists. I would never say gods don't exist because you can't prove a negative. Also how do you know if it 50/50? How did you discount universe creating pixies?
God is bigger then the worlds religions. God isn't a book. There is nothing but God.
God is a man made concept part of religions. There are thousands of God's made up. What does "there is nothing but god" even mean? Are you saying everything is god?
@@VoidEmergentFox Yes, that which forces everything to exist and exchange energy until reaching equilibrium.
@@mindofmayhem. Then you've just reduced god to nothing. Congratulations. I thought I would have to argue against some weird outside and space and time nonsense but god just being everything makes it easy. Why even call it god? It's like when people say the universe is god....no, the universe is the universe. We already have a word that describes the thing we live in, it's called the universe. You're just adding on this extra, pointless word. You're also assuming everything was forced to exist. How do you know it didn't just always exist.and didn't need created?
@@VoidEmergentFox The Universe is forced to exist and exchange energy until it reaches equilibrium too. I don't care the name it's given. I don't care if it's a ball of light or a bag of feces floating in a plastic bag. I'm addressing the very first "problems" that lead to there being something else involved.... The one where people think it's created to begin with. I never said reality was created. I'm saying there is no creation. Only God.
Im surprised matt would waste his time on cliffe. Cliffe does not use or have the snallest inkling of logic in regards to his world view. I doubt he understands what logic is. He clearly demonstrates he struggles with understanding, at the very least.
You will die one day and realize you’re a fool
Cliffe gave one part I’m with, in Numerolgy it speaks of reincarnation as I believe. The return to energy in the universe as you should give back your support to the support that was given to you. There is a Divine presence as magic is a presence proven through energy time’s force sort of algorithm. It’s just the Yeshua fact for me. I’m cool with Christianity, but why can’t the word Tetragrammaton be pronounced? Ahhh I may be speaking to far 😢
There are no Atheists. Only deniers. How can you know this for sure? _"For since the creation of the world God's invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools."_ -Romans 1:20-22
You're assuming your position is correct. You would need to prove the bible before you can use it as evidence. Until then, it's only a baseless claim.
@@zimmothyd1266 Nonsense. I don't need to prove 2+2=4. It's already correct whether you believe it or not. The Word of God is truth whether you believe it or not.
"My book says you're wrong! Checkmate, atheist!" Such a classic.
@@Maksie0 From dust you came and dust you shall return. But the judgement comes after. But then again you already know that.
Cliff respect ✊
One person was preaching the other speaking logic
Tell me how believing in objective morality is logical? Under the premise that there is no god
@@theomargames6330 It's logical because it's beneficial to the survival of the species. If you care about others and they care about you it's beneficial for everyone.
@@theomargames6330You'd have to establish that objective morality exists.
@@ReadingRambo152why is the survival of species beneficial though? If we’re all going to turn to dirt what does survival have to do with anything and how does caring even affect survival? You can survive and not be cared for. what exactly does it mean to be caring?
@@banardadams8776 Well your first question is a bit open ended. On a universal scale the survival of any given species isn't beneficial or important. The earth could be wiped out tomorrow and the universe wouldn't notice or care.
That being said, the survival of a species by definition is beneficial to that species. And strictly based off of observation it seems like all animals prefer to live rather than die. You might ask why animals want to live, and the only answer I can give to that is that all animals alive today descended from animals that want to live. I know you might not find that answer to be satisfactory, but admittedly I don't really know if there is a satisfactory answers to that question.
To answer your second question, why does survival matter if we're all going to turn to dirt? It doesn't. Survival also doesn't matter if there's an after life. After you die, survival ceases to be an issue.
And to answer your last question; adult humans may be able to survive if they're not cared for. But children are far less likely to survive, and toddlers and infants certainly won't. Imagine if mothers weren't genetically predisposed to care for their babies, and immediately after birth they just abandoned them; their babies would die and they wouldn't pass down their genes to future generations. So it makes sense that we are genetically predisposed to care for our young because those genes are more likely to get passed down.
In short, caring is something that we are genetically predisposed to because it helps us live longer. It helps us survive, and regardless of what happens to us after we die, all animals want to live.
If extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, why do we accept ancient stories as proof of God while dismissing similar claims from other religions or modern events? What makes one belief true and another ‘deceived thinking
This man needs prayer. I feel sorry for hum. But hey u never know, GOD could give him a change of heart. GOD please BLESS him and reveal ykutself to him please
So why hasn't it?
No he doesn´t need it. You only THINK he does. That´s exactly the same like me saing: You need Satan. I feel sorry for you. You never know, Satan could give you a change of heart and make you realize that he's real and not that fake God. Satan, please BLESS Nahkalah and reval yourself to her please!
If you believe your god to be omnicient, your prayer is useless...
Not going to happen. If he existed, he would have revealed himself to those he claims to love - sinners.
Which god?
The amount of arrogance needed to say someone could enjoy HEAVEN without you being there is astronomical 😂😂 my guy really think he's his mother's life and joy lol that's a good mama but please believe baby boy if it's you or Jesus, your mom is picking Jesus 10 out of 10 times🤷🏽♂️🙏🏽
You left out the part of him suffering in hell for eternity. How could anyone have complete bliss when there loved one is suffering for eternity
@@robertdewhurst9031by leaving your history behind when you move on. No one said that the end of the Bible is the end of the story. Eternity is a long time and there will be alot to do. One more thing so many forget, hell gets destroyed when the war is over.
Hey, yes, I definitely will because you made your choice, and I made mine.
@robertdewhurst9031 same way a child can enjoy their dessert while their sibling gets punished. You know what you did and had the option to meet me up here, AND I told you multiple times what you needed to do but instead you wanted to do your own thing, so now you get to for eternity 🤷🏽♂️
@@robertdewhurst9031when you are a part of Gods plan, thats all that matters. The creator of the universe, supercedes everything. God made it very clear in the bible, if you choose to live in your sins and not repent or seperate yourself from God.
You put yourself in hell, and there is no one to blame but yourself. Also the bible even mentions how to avoid all that, so fairness should not be a conflict if everyone has access to a bible.
Matt made more sense than Cliff.. but nice try🤷🏽♂️
When was this? The date should be included in the description
Honest question. Are theists capable of honestly representing atheism? Theist debaters and commenters CONSTANTLY take the basic concepts and twist them so they can dismiss them, apparently.
Like who and how specifically?
@@AOH2008 honest question. Have you ever listened to any atheist call-in show or watched any debate between an atheist and a theist? Pick your poison. I don't think I've ever heard a theist that engaged honeatly. Commenters on the theist side of debates too. I think you'd be hard pressed to find theist who engage honestly with atheists. If you don't see it, maybe brush up on some elements of logic, and logical fallacies.
@@themartialartsapproach8786 That's a fallacy of composition, and a non sequitur. First, it does not follow that theists engage dishonestly because they're theists. Second, your experience is limited by human limitations. You can't honestly say that a subset of the theist population represents all theists, everywhere, especially when we're all different in so many ways. I also have to wonder why I have to listen to any atheist call-in show. There's always one more thing you can say I should consider, regardless of the validity of my position, just like I could say there's always one more book, video, call-in show, etc., that you haven't considered. The arguments are the same, and have been refuted repeatedly over at least the past 2,000 years. Can you honestly say that you have a brand new argument that has never been encountered before, which can't be refuted? Of course, I have hope that you will be an honest interlocutor about this whole discussion...
@AOH2008 I didn't say theists don't engage honestly BECAUSE they're theists. It's that, after watching countless hours of debates and listening to hundreds of hours of call in shows, reading theist comments on their channels, talking with theists, and growing up in the church, I can't think of a single time one engaged honestly. Has it happened? Of course. Is it rare? It certainly seems to be. So your composition fallacy accusation is also false.
And as a starter, a classic example of misrepresentation is, "you atheists think that something came from nothing." Or there's "I know you're mad at god, but that's no reason to lead others astray," or, "you guys can't have morality if it doesn't come from a higher power," or "you guys just wanna be able to do whatever you want and sin as much as you want. That's why you rebel against god."
Maybe you don't want to listen to an atheist call-in show, but just pick your favorite theist channel talking about atheists and start checking my list.
@themartialartsapproach8786 one thing I learned about communication is that the meaning of communication is the response you get. What about your communication would have given me that impression?
Pray for Matt may God bring repentance and be get saved.
He needs saving like Christians need Vishnu, and I'm guessing you're not worried about your soul being stuck in a cycle of samsara right? The only people that need to worry about going to hell are the people that believe in it.
The level of ignorance in the comments section blows my mind, then I remember Ive been in the position of holding on so tightly to a fantasy despite the strong feeling in my gut that I was wrong
Can you elaborate?
Even if there is a god, or a spiritual world with spiritual beings, that does not necessitate that humans have a life after death. Did humans have a life before birth?
Mike's "wife" is actually a man, in a dress. Mike, like most humans, is living his life in complete and utter opposition to Christ and therefore rejects all that Christianity entails; this isveey common, I know because I lived the first part of my life this way, as a lesbian. Praise Yeshua, I am saved and have repented from that lifestyle, as it's an abomonation. I am so grateful to have been saved by His grace and love. I have only a few regrets, one major one is that I led so many astray when I was living that lifestyle, surrounded myself w like minded sinners to help alleviate my conscience to this terrible sin.
Praying for Mike and his "husband" that they will repent and be saved.
Your self-hatred is spilling over to others. Sad.
His name is Matt.
That explains so much. He doesn't want to give up his sin.
Your god said to love thy neighbor. Insulting them is not love, no matter what you believe in. Be an example.
I should probably watch this, but Matt’s arguments are always the same. I might fast forward to Cliffs part.
Cringe
Not very open minded of you
@@drsiege3434 his arguments are so played. Like most atheists it’s a strong appeal to emotions with some bad hermeneutics.
@@RBoas well, I think it's usually Theists that give the same answers from the same playbook. Mostly in the line of - "if we can't explain something, then it must be God". This removes the need for deep thought into alternative possible explanations.
@@RBoas
I get the exact opposite impression. Matt’s position/argument never uses emotional appeal. It’s always about evidence and sound epistemology.
The proof Cliff speaks about is non existent. The gospels were written in Greek in another part of the world by people that never met Jesus 40-60 years after he died. Jesus was a Palestinian Jew who spoke Aramaic not Greek. The people who wrote the gospels used the Septuagint which was written in Greek which were a direct translation from Hebrew, the word virgin was mistranslated from the word for young girl. “The Bible was written by sand strewn women and men who thought the earth was flat and a wheel barrow would be ground breaking emergent technology” Sam Harris
The design of the cosmos and the designs of our bodies screams that there is a designer. Not happenstance. I pray for the unbelievers. 🙏
If there is a designer God..then he is a very bad designer..many babies borned have illnesses, deformed lips..hole in the hearts..etc..many young children have poor eyesight etc..
There is no evidence for religion period. My father is a pastor and i see guys like this enndocrined.
There’s plenty you’re just not looking
@@baronwaggoner3702 I’ve been looking my whole life. I’m begging to see actual proof. Christian’s only tell me hypotheticals, philosophy, or tell me about their experience they can’t explain that I can easily explain.
Cliff as well as being the most unconvincing apologist of all, is also the most annoying. And it seems he has managed to indoctrinate his
so as well, who is also a pastor. He failed miserably in this debate, and should have known better than debate Dillahunty, he had no chance.
No chance? This was a debate. Not a competition. No chance to what? Win? There was never a win or lose. It’s to exchange ideas. Cliffe wasn’t trying to convince him of anything. He was answering the questions in response to Matt. He was very respectful. If you were annoyed, then you likely arnt being open minded.
@@zachstremmel7717 A debate is, in fact, about winning. That’s why it’s not a discussion.
The more cliffe speaks the less impress i get...hes explain absolutely nothing
How do you explain centuries and centuries of people coming to the Lord and Jesus changing their lifes even up to this present time
Ask the same question while inserting ever other religion.
You explain it by giving a more logical rephrasing to the question.
“How do you explain centuries of people believing in a cause and purpose passed down through centuries of word of mouth and writings and using what they learned to come to the conclusion and attempt to fill the gaps of to things they couldn’t understand or explain somehow had to be a result of the things they learned about because that’s what they were taught and they can’t imagine thinking any different now, even today?”
Matt is basing is responses on intellect while Cliffe is playing the emotion card.
Religion is very heavily rooted in emotion. When a pastor tells a naive person that if they don’t worship the lord they’ll burn for all of eternity, they’re trying to evoking an emotional response of fear in order to get them to follow their beliefs. If they tried to preach using facts, they would never start talking because there are none.
Matt destroys cliff and cliff has God on his side,and still can't win.... it's so funny
Exactly how did he destroy him?
Absolute clown
@@shore-cityfilms if there was a God in the first place,y would cliff even show up..... it's all about the money..... God would never aloud atheist better christian..... y because there is no God......cliff can never win
@@Jimwade-qi6py that doesn’t make any sense. What is God suppose to come down from heaven and strike Matt down with lightning?
@@Jimwade-qi6pythats under assumptions about God. Doesnt make any sense to say "God doesnt exist because he hasnt revealed himself in xyz manner" cliffee could have totally done this just solely for money(which i completely disagree with). Doesnt really change whether or not God exists
What the hell is cliffe talking about. He says stuff that seems to make sense but as he keeps talking it makes no sense. He just begging the question over and over
This is what god means to me: It is the energy created by interaction between all things that exist, which make them not separate things, but one thing. It is not above all of it or us, but between. It is not an authority guiding all of those interactions, it just is. It is to be cherished, and hopefully cultivated, because this enables our survival and the continued development of complexity and symbiosis of this great ecosystem of existence, which makes life rich. Do I believe there is an actual electrical current or spirit floating between us? Well, I believe that the metaphor is so perfect that it becomes real.
As usual, the Christian speaker is disingenuous, and speaks as though he is speaking to children.
No critically thinking person thinks Cliff is making any good points whatsoever.
This is such a one sided spanking that it almost makes me feel smug to know I let go of religion long ago
Happy to see Cliff taking another massive L when he isn’t debating sociology and psychology sophomores. His constant ramblings on “evidence” is embarrassing; he’s a grown man that doesn’t understand that claims aren’t evidence, and to Matt’s own point you can find a lot more people providing a similar testimony to alien abduction than you can find in the Bible of people who ACTUALLY KNEW the living Christ (which is TWO, TWO people if you’re keeping score at home).
L take.
@ 🤡🤡🤡
@@lukepoplawski3230 hoes mad
@@lukepoplawski3230 mad
@@HDShayThePro mad that you made no points or rebuttals and your feelings were so hurt you had to come back to make another useless reply? Sure thing buddy. I’m seething.
The self/soul is an illusion created by language. No language no self!
"To the question of whether I believe in God, if we were in court I'd object on the ground that the question assumes a fact not in evidence."
-Vincent Bugliosi-
Haha. Fool. Hellfire is hot, and he doesn’t like being mocked 😉
What does that mean.
@@lexudary. it means the person he is quoting doesn't think there is factual evidence for God
That doesn't really work. If the question were, "do you you assume the fact of god's existence," then it would apply. A question regarding belief only assumes the possibility of existence.
Sounds like cliffe needs better friends
Anyone is free to have a relationship with an imaginary friend(god). Jesus was a failed apocalyptic prophet. Both Jesus and Paul expected God to bring the kingdom to earth in their lifetimes, or very shortly thereafter. They were wrong. There are many benefits to a Jesus lifestyle, but the theology behind it all is not true. When we die, nothing happens. You will never know. Make the most of this world. This is all there is.
If Christianity, which challenges all human temptations and calls people to a higher moral standard, were false, how could it endure for over 2,000 years and transform countless lives? Dismissing God as imaginary ignores both the philosophical evidence for His existence and the personal experiences of billions. Jesus wasn’t a failed prophet; His resurrection and the unstoppable growth of Christianity affirm His message of a present and future Kingdom. While Paul anticipated Christ’s return, he emphasized faithfulness without presuming the timing. The claim that nothing happens after death is an unprovable assumption; the resurrection uniquely challenges that view, offering hope beyond this life.
you know when he talks about having real record now and not back then? so if in a 1000 years people will believe what happened in today's days, then what do we believe happened around 3000 years ago?🤔
Yes Matt. That car out there has value bc it was made for a purpose. Without a purpose that car would have no value.
Dude such a good statement! I struggle with death big time. Been really working on having a relationship with God. Not so I can have eternal life but to have a relationship with him.
@@ethanharris7694 thank you and I’m so glad you’re searching for a relationship with God. Death is something we all will have to face one day for sure. If you haven’t heard of Paul washer look him up on here and listen to his “shocking message” it’s deep and full of truths. Another good pastor to listen to is John McArthur. Take good care!
Yes, but humans assign value to that car, and each person does so subjectively based on their personal preferences. The car is not worth the same for everyone.
I disagree. Not that your logic is wrong, but there may be a case where that could be. Better put, without an evaluator, there is no value. Without Matt, the car has no value. This will always be true.
Of cause I’m on Matt’s side because I’m an atheist. Cliffe has never really made any sense to me. He’s like another Ken Ham😳
Dude I don’t know what is I just believe I don’t go to church and my brother dose not believe at all. He’s one of the smartest people I know and for some reason it hurts my heart when he talks about it. (not believing) I’m not sure if it’s my parents or what it kinda messes with me. Built in. I originally wanted to awnser though just because I kinda agree in a sense that he just talks at people.
@@RadientFawnThe big point to me here is. Does any gods exist at all and have they been proven 😳
@markwoods4439 How can anyone prove god or any other imaginary made up invisible ghost is real?
The only thing that makes sense, is that if God does in fact exist, he no longer cares about us. It’s the only way to explain the bad things that are allowed to happen. He either doesn’t exist, or He does, just just doesn’t care.
Fascinating how Cliffe's entire set of arguments completely bypass Matts' logic and reason. He presents endless strawman arguments and false equivalences, simplifying complex issues around historical evidence, and somehow concluding that this evidence supports theological premises. He's points are a complete mess of traditional apologetics that are always presented as if they are totally logical and rational.
Matt however, actually is, simply rational and logical, making no claims beyond what is reasonable and observable.
Although I once was an avid apologist, I now cringe at how we were trained to gaslight and twist simple logic to fit our own rhetoric
That isn't right at all. The fact that many disciples of the early church choosing death over recanting their statements and beliefs is very powerful. There is plenty of evidence that they existed and died for their beliefs even though they were offered a way out. Who would die a terrible death for a made up story? How is that gaslighting anyone?
@@jefjaeger Millions of martyrs have died for countless different causes and religions. This is just another of those strawman arguments that apologetics throws around.
I totally understand your passion about this though. I was well trained in apologetics over my 40 years as a Christian, including a couple of years at bible college, so I'm very well versed in all the twists and turns of logical gymnastics that are presented to defend the faith.
Perhaps the bigger questions to ask are around our obsessions with creating religions in the first place.
@@JimMarjoram Or you can believe that the entire universe and everything in it just invented and created itself randomly with absolutely no purpose at all. Your choice.
@@jefjaeger Who cares either way 😏
But seriously, you didn't actually engage in any meaningful way to my response, rather, you just moved to the next point on the list of standard rhetoric.
The comment about random vs designed is a tired cliche these days. The reality is that we are learning more and more about the nature of "what is" and even time itself at the quantum level. So much so that the whole idea of the universe being "created" at some point is becoming moot.
I would suggest taking some time out to learn as much as possible about the cutting edge research in theoretical physics, particularly in the field of quantum physics. But when doing this research, it's important to drop our assumptions and confirmation biases, being open to anything that may challenge us, and honestly, as a Christian this is incredibly difficult to do.
@@JimMarjoram 'Who cares either way' pretty much reveals your attitude about this subject. If understanding the purpose to your life is of no value to you, of course you are going to go with what is hip and trendy in the world. The spiritual world doesn't exist to you. My comments are not 'tired cliche' or 'moot'. They stand up perfectly. You can come up with more complex explanations of how things invented and created themselves all you want, but it is still completely a matter of the universe either being the product of intelligent design, or simply popping into existence completely on its own. With planning and purpose, or completely arbitrary. It is a huge deal, not 'who cares'. I will trust God over man's wisdom every time.
My favorite argument is, "What is the purpose of life?'" because I read and understood Emanuel Swedenborg, the purpose of life is God's purpose, to fill His Heavens with Angels.
Human can't be angels according to angelology, so that's just vacuously stupid.
What’s the purpose of that?