THE PROBLEM WITH CHRISTIAN BALE'S BATMAN
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ย. 2022
- The Dark Knight trilogy is regarded as one of the if not THE best set of Batman films...
but that's not to say it's without it's faults.
Case in point, today we talk about Christian Bale 's Batman.
#thedarkknight #batman #christianbale
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I always thought the Bale Batman voice worked in short, quick sentences: "Why do you want to kill me?" or "Swear to me!" It does not work when he goes on long monologues about philosophy.
I actually thought it worked perfectly when he told Jim Gordon at the end of the dark knight rises that hero could be anyone, like it was a long monologue sure but it didn't sound silly for me in fact I thought the voice made that monologue even better to be honest.
Yeah, I think the voice is absolutely ridiculous. But I appreciate it cuz it’s funny and led to many parodies.
It mostly works in Begins especially the swear to me scene but by TDK it's just ridiculous.
@@playcoarmboy1836 he sounds ridiculous still
Why could he not use a voice changed in the form of a 'sticker' on the outside of his throat, like Oliver Queen did in Smallville? Surely all that money & tech, this could've easily been manufactured.
I feel like it's a misconception that Bruce retired as Batman just because Rachel died. By his own words in "Rises", Batman went away because he wasn't needed anymore. The good guys won the war on crime because of the Dent Act. That's why Batman disappeared for eight years. But Bruce Wayne retreated into isolation because of Rachel's death.
This version of Batman was never meant to be a life-long occupation for Bruce, it was meant to have an expiration date from the beginning. And Bruce pinned the life after Batman on being with Rachel. So without her, there's no need for Bruce Wayne to have a life outside of the mansion. But when a new threat rises, both Bruce and Batman come out of retirement when they're needed.
And that is something batman wouldn't do
Yeaaaaa.... his Batman still sucks..
@@leonunez8335 You suck.
See, this is another big problem I have with the Dark Knight Rises:
Bruce didn't defeat crime in the city. He only suppressed it. Life was still shitty, people were still poor, the population was still disillusioned. Yeah, he crushed the mob and organized crime, but he didn't fix the problem at its root. How else would you explain that Bane could recruit such a massive army of followers if there wasn't a good chunk of poor and disillusioned people around. And Catwoman giving hints at that with comments on socioeconomic disparity.
In every other incarnation it was stated that while Batman fights crime, Bruce Wayne tries to help the poor and disadvantaged. Heck, the latest Batman film this year even showed the importance of being a symbol of hope for the vulnurable.
The Dark Knight Rises on the other hand made a whole point on how the victory in the Dark Knight was hollow and meaningless since it needed only one buff dude to topple it all. That Batman only made the symptomps of crime go away but not the cause.
@@jackduncan5442 not as much as Bale's Batman 😂😂
He didn’t retire because of Rachel’s death, it was to save Harvey’s reputation and keep those Villians locked up. They mentioned in the film that Gotham was at peace while he was gone. He also was gonna be facing off against the cops as well as the criminals each time he was out.
what I really hate about C bale's batman is the fighting choreography, Is stiff... don't know another way to explain it.
"DO I LOOK LIKE A COP?" is the best line of the trilogy
Honestly that whole scene is very Batman
What about "I'm not running around in hockey pants." I the first time I heard him say that I laughed and laughed.
I really like "then you're gonna love me" after Joker's "You've got a little fight in ya, I like that"
So the film is not so good
When he says "SWEAR TO ME!" to Fleiss, I felt intimidated.
I always have agreed with Batman being the person and Bruce the mask. That's also what makes Dick Grayson the perfect hero because Nightwing and Dick Grayson are one in the same, he acts the same as both and is comfortable being in the Nightwing suit because it's just him being himself.
Dick Grayson is still my favorite Robin
Imo the best version of Batman is when the real Batman is basically a hybrid of Bruce and Batman
Well then you just misunderstand batman lol
I disagree, I think bringing him down as a character to a certain thing is a bit of a oversimplification of what he is as a character. In my opinion, both Playboy Bruce and Batman are exaggerations of Bruce’s true self not masks necessarily. The real absolute Bruce is the one most don’t see, the one in the cave or that comes out when with his loved ones. Playboy Bruce is the egotistical and cocky self of Bruce personified and multiplied. While Batman is Bruce’s rage and pain personified and multiplied as well. They both are extensions of Bruce and represent parts of him but aren’t necessarily completely who he is.
One is him embracing his demons and using them to fight crime. While the other is him trying to suppress his demons and show out for the public.
The person who Alfred raised. The man who was a mentor and caring person to Dick, Jason, and Damian when they had no one else. That is the true unaltered Bruce Wayne.
The difference is here is that Dick through lines it and is way more in touch than Bruce is. Dick has found the best way at least for him to not become consumed by the symbol.
He is the true heir to the cowl
Fun Fact: Christian Bale had a different voice originally. He was speaking lightly and calmly almost like a whisper. But Nolan didn't like it. So he changed it.
Nolan ruined Batman for future’s to come
@@user-hw3li7sj7g No he didn't
@@user-hw3li7sj7gwell that doesn’t really make much sense because our latest version of Batman literally talks in the whispering manner that the original comment is referring too.
In Christian Bale’s defense, it’s extremely hard to showcase your acting ability as batman when your entire body is covered in a rigid rubber suit. Bale can barely move or show facial expressions. Also Bale’s bat voice never bothered me. Great performance, great movies!
Same. Best batman to me🤷♂️
Best comment here 👌
@@jerbs5346 that’s unfair. Ur comparing voice acting with actual acting. It’s a lot easier to act when the animation takes out the visual aspect. Ur comparing apples to oranges
I completely agree. He’s the best live action Batman so far imo.
Pedro Pascal and The Mandalorian enter the chat.
I gotta say, “SWEAR TO ME!” is one of my favorite batman quotes of all time how could someone not find that intimidating lol
The bat voice was good in batman begins. All in all though, it felt like Nolan missed the smaller details in place of the overall grander picture, especially in rises.
By Rises I could barley understand him
@@dabatman5187 yeah same with bane. I get what they were going for but giving bane the exposition monologues was just bad execution and doesn't hold up the test of time.
@@ThatReplicant Bane's voice was nearly perfect and perfectly understandable. Batman's voice in Rises wasn't. It was good in Begins, ok in TDK and too extreme in Rises.
@@ThatReplicant good point
My dad called out his voice in The Dark Knight and i was in denial but now I give him credit for noticing it right away.
Forensics expert here: You could not get a fingerprint off a bullet in brick even with all the money in the world. The fingerprint would be wiped off the bullet as it passes into the brick. Also pistol bullets don't go through bricks. Also the fingerprint would have been damaged on half of all the sides of the bullet due to it scraping against the rifling as it passed through the barrel. Also I read a paper about the Las Vegas concert mass shooting, and the FBI couldn't get a single fingerprint off of all the fired cartridge casings of all the bullets fired, barely getting a couple off of the unfired ammunition. Ammunition is not a good source for fingerprints in general because they're covered in a layer of grease.
Well its fiction so who cares
Counter argument, Bruce Wayne has more than all the money in the world. He has money out of this world too. After all, he funded the lookout or whatever the JLA floating hq is called. 😅
@@John-Doe-Yo That excuse only really works for stories that embrace the absurdity of this whole superhero thing. The problem was Nolen wanted to make a more "realistic" Batman trilogy, so it makes sense to critique them when they're unrealistic.
@@purplespectre it’s not an excuse just how entertainment works. It’s more grounded but still absurd and the rules of the world in the story are up to whoever crafts them.
@@John-Doe-Yo the video actually asks if that's a thing.
The reason Bale always uses "The voice" when wearing a mask is that, in the original script, it was produced by a voice modulator - same as Batfleck. BvS explicitly shows Alfred playing with the modulator, adjusting its tone. Nolan, on the other hand, either never filmed the explanation (I learned it from "The Art of Batman Begins"), or the scene didn't make the cut.
Bale's performance in the last two movies was actually the same as it was in Begins. The effects team altered it in post.
Is this true???
Source: trust me bro
@@darnfrick3354 Forget where I read the second fact, but the first is in The Art of Batman Begins.
@@joshwilliams6517 @velvetspectre Forget where I read the second fact, but the first is in The Art of Batman Begins.
@@seanewing204 source: trust me bro again
I’ve read before that it was Nolan who altered the Batman voice in post-production, wanting it more growly and distinct from Bruce’s public voice. I thought the voice was fine in Begins, and actually liked the “SWEAR TO ME!” bit.
How do you alter a voice in pre-production? As in: before anything is filmed?
@@dustywaynemusic6297 he probably meant post.
@@rizzaramon7213 well that's the complete opposite of what he said. I think he's just full of it
Dammit, post-production.
I would love you to make a video about Cillian Murphy's Scarecrow. He was great, but kind of wasted.
Scarecrow always gets wasted sadly
@@MILDMONSTER1234 yeees! And he is such a cool antagonist! I hope they bring him back in the Pattinson movies.
@@elsorzis5692 i think he’s supposed to in The Batman’s Arkham spin-off
I need more Scarecrow in my life.
They always make the mask look boring af, some Scarecrow mask’s in the DCAU movies are amazing
Honestly, I like the three personas thing. Public face Bruce Wayne and Batman when people see him are both acts. The real Bruce is somewhere in the middle.
Yeah, I don't get how that's a bad point (I haven't finished watching the video tbh, maybe he elaborates on that)
It makes complete sense to me, and I really like it.
I read somewhere that the real man is Bruce Wayne in the batcave
In Begins his voice wasn't as bad as people make it out. In DK it got bad, probably from Bale competing with Ledger rather than just act. It became full parody in rises with two actors with bad voices that can't hear each other.
Conroy had three personas too, and of course did it best. But really rewatch his performance in the animated series. He had the Bat, the Bruce and the real man in between.
Thanks for another great video Vee. Keep rockin man.
By the 3rd film Bale's Batman voice was more Daffy Duck than Dark Knight, "criminal sthcum, their dethpicable!!"
The post production team added a lot of gravel to his voice. It wasn't all Christian.
That hit me as soon as I heard that voice in the theaters on the night of release and the ensuing response to said voice. One would have thought that the Joker pumped the place full of laughing gas.
conroy is my fave batman voice. when i think of batman thats who i think of
Bale’s Batman voice in Begins was in part a channeling of his extreme discomfort in the original suit. The follow-up suit didn’t produce the same sort of physical discomfort so he ended up doing an impression of his own voice.
Although I understand the silliness behind Bales Batman voice, I think you misunderstood the ending of the Dark Knight. Batman doesn’t give up because of Rachel’s death. He doesn’t truly “give up” at all. Harvey Dent represented the best and the change of Gotham. He was the white knight trying to clean up Gotham the right way. So him being corrupted by the Joker and killing people would result in the complete downfall of their (dents, Gordon’s, and Batman’s) work. In the end, the Joker won: he corrupted Harvey Dent and got Batman to break his one rule. At the end, the Batman is willing to sacrifice his reputation if it means the preservation of gothams soul- “because he can take it.” Bales Batman doesn’t give up, he sacrifices. In fact, in the Dark Knight Rises breakup scene between Bruce and Alfred, Alfred tries to use Rachel’s death to stop Bruce from continuing, but it doesn’t work.
well putted
But why couldn't he have just put the blame on the joker?
@@OirichEntertainment Because if you tell the public that the Joker turned Dent evil, it tells them that even the best people can be corrupted and that there is no hope for Gotham to truly be fixed. Maintaining the image that Dent was incorruptable was essential to maintaining hope.
I thought everyone understand this after all these years but damn why do movie review youtubers can't grasp a simple idea?
@@ubaldoarias5653 **Put** lmao
Bale's Batman giving up after Rachel died and the Dent Act is the main reason he is not the best Batman for me. Before The Dark Knight Rises came out, I was expecting him to become as brutal as Ben Affleck's Batman. But alas... this is a Batman that retires
That honestly was a weak storyline that would never happen in the comics or any other media. Batman would endure, and give into being a myth, slipping back to the shadows, back to his roots, but pussied out, because one close person died. Dent caused a lot of damage, but Bruce would harden himself and spend the years being more low key, and being more prepared so no one else close to him would die the way Rachel and Dent did. He should’ve been more brutal in the third one, pushing through his dark past.
My old idea when The Dark Knight Rises was being promoted, I thought Bruce continued his mission as Batman, and through flash backs, Bane was waiting for him in the bat cave one night and threw him off guard. Exactly like Knightfall, Bane would’ve wore him down, and in the present time that’s why Bruce had his cane. This concept would’ve flowed so much better with the main narrative having a truly seasoned Batman forced to retire after being broken by one of his rogues who got away and has had to spend 8 years recovering before healing his body and putting the suit back on. When I saw the cave scenes, I seriously thought it was all flash backs from what Bruce had suffered from a long time rivalry with Bane, and seeing him reappear, pushes him to be Batman again, but that probably would’ve had plot holes. If The Dark Knight Rises was a little darker, and make Talia more of a victim to Bane and center him as the main villain, would’ve been a smarter move instead of forced love interests. Catwoman’s arc could’ve added some noir detective elements, there was enough story to make a two part finale or a three hour runtime but Christopher Nolan just wanted to end the trilogy as epic as possible.
@TH-cam Commenter have you considered not getting your ass kicked and not losing the people you love
Batman has retired plenty of times in the comics. It never sticks because thats the medium of comics, but Movies put a finite spin on things from the comics all the time.
Batman only wants to be with women as damaged as he is, (Catwoman and Talia Al ghul) but women are pretty dispensable to him, like most things. Him wanting a specific woman that much and wanting to quit crime fighting over her is not the character at all
Bale's Batman voice just made me realize that Mysterion's voice was indeed a parody on Bale's voice but somehow, it excelled when he couldn't.
It worked because mysterion is kenny and most people tend to not remember what kennys voices sounds like without being muffled by his parka.
@@ZeroOmega-vg8nq I meant more like it worked because Matt Stone knew how not to make it sound dumb.
I just want to said he didnt retired thanks to Racheal death, this take of the character isnt trying to avenged his parents death because Joe Chill was capture, but when he was killed by Falcone Bruce understood that in order to achived what his parrents wanted to do with Gorham he needed to clean the system. When the white knight appear the Dark Knight saw the promise for a better a Gotham, One that wouldnt need him and after what the Joker did with Harvey he had to sacrifice the Batman. Rachael only was what he belive would be his life out of the cave/darkness but it was a lie.
I’m not saying is a good way to potrait the character but is how Nolan write him to tell the story.
Finaly someone who understands the Movie
Exactly. They make a big point in The Dark Knight of how Batman wants to retire once the mob is gone, and in The Dark Knight Rises when he talks to Gordon in the hospital about how he wasn’t needed anymore after Harvey’s death because they’d won and beat the mob.
In all three movies, there’s an underlying sense that he doesn’t want to be doing this. He just wants to root out the crime and corruption in Gotham, and once that’s done, so is he.
I'm late to this party, but Nolan's batman is worthless. Batman is known for being one of the world's greatest detectives but was so easily tricked by the joker more then once. Dent really does not mean much to Batman. in the comics batman calls gotham a garden that always has weeds to pull. there will always be crime.
Christian Bales Bruce/Batman is a more altruistic one. It's more of a James Bond as Batman type character. He still uses Batman as a tool for his anger. Pattinson's is an attempt at a more Pre Keaton version. Bales Batman is actually the most physically imposing one outside of Affleck. His voice is a natural disguise. Bale explained that the only way to play a dude in a weird costume to go all in and create an entity. The universe Nolan created is more based in reality. Had he just used his speaking voice he would have been A. Figured out, B. Made fun of in universe. I think its funny that so many people hate on his voice, when Robert Pattinson basically stole it and just turned it down one notch.
exactly. comments on this video are stupid.
@@masterwayne420 I'd say the video is pretty stupid all in all but well he's free to have his opinion.
tbh all batmen kinda contributed something maybe except for George Clooney. Just kidding he looked the part and also had a good bruce wayne. The perfect batman would be an actor who got all the attributes the actors had. Tbh IMO Christian bale for all the rules his universe had functioned really well to what batman is suppose to be in the comics. The only thing i disliked about his take which tbh isn't his fault at all rather the direction of what the movie told him to function as is His batman voice, and his suit which i think is god awful. The body suit is fine but i cant stand that cowl.
I think the Batman aspects is just Nolan not being a comic fan and not having someone above him to control him like how the MCU does/did. I think Nolan likes Batman as a character at his core but he was not a fan of the comic book trapping like Robin, his supervillains and everything like that. Probably why the Batsuit is more like armor than a batsuit. Nolan wanted to make Batman in his own aesthetics and that is fine.
Non comic book fans arguably have no business directing comic book films.
As a longtime Batman fan I didn't like the Nolan trilogy. It was trying too hard to be a noir piece instead of comic book film.
@@MrWolfchamp-xi3cu Most comic book fans aren't qualified to direct a big budget production.
@@TheMicael100 I'm not talking about them. That oughta go without saying.
I'm talking about directors that actually love comics.
He did Just like many writer on Batman comic as well : "do their own interpretation on Batman"
Sooo don't see what wrong with it
Batman Begins (2005) and Superman Returns (2006) should’ve led to Batman v Superman. Christian Bale and Brandon Routh were the perfect age to build the DCEU for the next 2 decades.
Lol No thanks. Routh was not a good Superman and Bale sucked as Batman in my opinion but I liked his portrayal of Bruce Wayne the best out of them all
Thank God THAT didn't happen.
@@scinnyc Routh was better than Cavill just as Bale was better than Affleck, thank God we have Pattinson now
@@TheBatman39 😅Routh wasn't better than Cavill in anyway in my opinion and I'm sure most people would agree with me. I didn't think Affleck was that good as Batman either but I never liked Bale's Batman. His voice was goofy, his fighting moves were Power Rangerish and his costume looked like it didn't even fit right
@@scinnyc bales Batman couldn’t fight for shit his fighting style was awful
It has been mentioned multiple times in the comics that Bruce forgets to stop talking in the Batman voice, when he’s in the mask. There was a scene in the comics were Bruce is in the batcave talking to Alfred and he mentions how he is covered in wounds, and hasn’t taken off his mask in weeks, then Alfred Mentions that Bruce doesn’t have to talk in the voice when it’s just the two of them, and Bruce did realize he was doing.
Reeves/Pattinsons portrayal of The Batman absolutely nailed it, imo. Bruce hasn’t separated himself and the bat, he IS The Bat, and is still trying to figure out how to use Bruce as a tool in the real world. Lost in anger and obsession, running on a razors edge. And the movie felt like an actual Batman story, I find myself getting kind of bored with Nolan’s batverse. I understand what he set out to do, but I feel like critical elements were lost in the translation to screen. I’m incredibly excited to see how Pattinsons Bruce, and that world, grows in future instalments!
totally agree, conroy and pattinson are my two faves for different reasons
Reeves doesn’t possess one original idea, so he must base his ”world” on other people’s work, then subsequently overcompensate for this failure by rendering it some kind of interactive experience.
@@JesseBrown-qf6zp and you possess no bitches
@@JesseBrown-qf6zp The Batman is the most overrated film I’ve seen all year. It was another ‘realistic Batman movie’. That’s already been done, and already been perfected. It was a 3hr shit show
@@iacovoskritz4896 finnaly someone who understands.
This is ironic, I just died twice in arkham knight trying to take out a tower and I chose the dark knight skin and tumbler and both times deathstroke popped up saying "you used to put up more of a fight" and litterally right after I got done saying it's this shitty fuckin suit" I look over at my phone and see a notification saying "the problem with Christian bale Batman"!... that's funny!:)
Christian Bale is the living embodiment Christopher Lee's quote: Every actor has to make terrible films from time to time, but the trick is never to be terrible in them.
Well it’s not the actors making the movies but the directors and writers
That's almost the exact opposite of what's being described in this video where the films are great but they are let down by Bale .
I love Batfleck's modulated voice... when I first heard it in BVS I was like: that's cool af, they finally nailed Batman, Batfleck is the perfect Batman, the way he fights, talks and carries himself, that's how I've always imagined Batman in live action.
Only problem I had with Affleck was him killing people. Other than that he was great as an older Batman
@@Hugeboss01 well he is a frank miller adaptation batman and miller batman has no such rules
Batfleck is my favorite Batman
@@thepresence2959”these are loud and clumsy,these are the weapons of cowards” Miller’s Batman
This is so true. Finally someone who shows the flaws that Many people somehow ignores or shoved aside
bale makes me want to see more “ninja bruce wayne”. soul of the dragon was a missed opportunity, but bale really made Bruce wayne’s LoA/S “ninja phase” seem cool
What i really liked about bale's batman is it seems to be a batman based on well throughout out planning rather than sheer brute force. Thou i want batman to still have that sheer brute force like he had in the arkham games. which also makes me want to have an rts style batman or a tactics style batman game.
"Happy watching. Thank you, sir"
Anyways, I definitely agree with the points you made about Christian Bale's performance as Bruce Wayne the person, Bruce Wayne the persona, and Batman the persona. 👀
"Bruce Wayne is the real mask" I'm so tired of this interpretation. Why do either of them have to be a mask and not part of a greater whole? I'd say Bruce Wayne is his truest self when he is in the suit, without the cowl. That is when he is at his most complete. He can be the whole man, and doesn't have to hide the other parts of himself.
Biggest problem they didn’t continue with this version for their cinematic universe.
Thank God they didn't.
Yup, WB would have avoided all the upcoming bs with the DCEU if they used Bale's Batman as the starting point.
@@davemiller6055 They didn't and everything went downhill very quickly
WB execs were the problem with the DCEU. They interfered, then the film didn't do as well as it should have, then they panicked and blamed someone or something else, then they interfered with the next film, and so on.
Look at how much better Snyders Dawn of Justice is than the theatrical. BvS wasn't bad, but the Ultimate edition was MUCH better.
And of course the Snyder cut of Justice League is orders of magnitude better than Hamadas dumpster fire.
Suicide Squad made a ton of money even though it had harsh reviews. There is no reason not to believe that the Ayer cut is 1000 times better.
So if WB had let Snyder and Ayer do their thing, the DCEU would be much better off. Jenkins too. Don't forget that WB made Patty Jenkins change the ending of Wonder Woman. The ending is the weakest part of the film. Then they did BOP, WW 84, and Gunns Suicide Squad. All were terrible and tanked. Somehow they miraculously managed not to screw up Aquaman, and Shazam was great but WB released it at possibly the worst time that they could have done so. They released it near Endgame. What the hell were they thinking?
Neither Bale nor Routh would have really fit into a coherent universe. Nolan was going for grounded and more realistic, and Routh was a throwback to the campy Reeves films.
Routh was good in the CWs Crisis crossovers.
The Reeve (leave off the last 'S" for Superman) films weren't campy, and neither was Superman Returns. Considering you don't even know how to spell his name, maybe you haven't seen them in awhile, or at all.
*sarcasm mode on max* you don't understand Vee, if Joker was like "no i didn't kill him, he burnt half his face so became obsessed with flipping a coin... went on a brief murder spree and then fell off a roof while waiting to see if the coin would tell him to shoot a kid" EVERYONE would have believed that. obviously. withought a doubt.
10:34 Bruce didn't give up being Batman because of Rachel. It's never said anywhere in the Dark Knight Rises that he gave up because of Rachel or even implied. He stopped going out as Batman because there was no need for him to do so anymore. He didn't "give up", He succeeded. He maintained Harvey's reputation which led to the mob's stranglehold on Gotham being shattered. He said it himself to Gordon "The Batman wasn't needed anymore, we won".
"The Batman doesn't want to do what he's doing for the rest of his life, how could he? He's looking for someone to take up his mantle"
@DM but Batman doesn’t wnna retire as Batman lmaoo 😂it’s who he is even in Batman beyond old 85 year old Bruce Wayne still calls himself Batman lmaoo
The part about Batman being the man and Bruce Wayne being the "mask" is spot on. I forget which series it was exactly, but one of the Batman animated series shows Bruce as an older man. The big bad for the episode is trying to convince Bruce that he's crazy by talking to him like a voice in his head, and when asked how he was able to tell that he wasn't actually going insane, he pointed out that the voice that was supposed to be coming from inside his head always referred to him as "Bruce", but in reality, in his head: "I'm always Batman".
This confirms that Bruce is nothing more than an alter ego and that the true personality of the man at his core is Batman.
It was Batman beyond
@justinkashtock333
Wrong, dumbass.
Thank you for continuing to put out such great content! I totally agree with your point of Bruce never giving up being Batman and that “Bruce Wayne” was the mask while Batman was the true persona. To add credence to Bruce never giving up being Batman all you need to do is either read Frank Miller’s the Dark Knight Returns or watch the Batman Beyond series. In both, Bruce may have physically aged out of being still capable of being Batman but his detective mind is still as sharp as ever and he continues being Batman thru his mentorship, in DKR it’s Carrie Kelly and the Sons of the Batman while in Batman Beyond it’s Terry McGuinness. He may be behind the scenes but his presence as Batman is still felt. Bale is a great actor and Nolan is a great director but you are very correct in your assessment of both them missing the mark of who Batman is.
Yeah this version of Bruce Wayne is pretty clingy and needy.
My friends and I used to loosely connect unrelated movies together to expand their universes. Yeah, we imagined it would be funny if at the end of American Psycho he looks at the camera and says....I'm Batman!
I liked the christian bale batman, he really embodied what I pictured batman to be as a kid better then anyone else. I thought the suit was cool, the voice, the way he fought, his motivations. To me it all made sense and flowed together really well nothing ever felt silly or out of place
The problem is not the acting, but the voice, they could have done another voice for Batman but they didn't, and the fact that nobody in the production noticed it and said: "That voice is stupid, we should try another one." -- That's really scary. Another thing is the fight choreography. But that's not Bale's fault, both of those things are Nolan's fault, really no one tried to give Bale's Batman a better voice or better fight scenes? It's almost as if nobody on the film's production cared about Batman.
Pete Holmes “badman” sounds just like bales Batman 😂
100% Batman taking the rap for Harvey was unnecessary and misplaced but I do think that was the point and that mistake by Batman and Gordon cpmes back to haunt them in DKR. They wanted to create the narrative/lie Joker wasn't right and that he lost and it came at the price of a lie.
For me they could have just not done the part with Harvey as two-face and did what they did with scarecrow and hold him over for the dark knight rises cause to me it always felt like filler cause they need to pad a movie that didn’t need padding cause the joker should have been the only villain in the movie
It wasn't unnecessary. It pretty much helped put that last nail in the coffin in organized crime in Gotham. After the Dent act it was over for the mob they never recovered.
There’s honestly 3 personas: Batman, Playboy Millionaire, and Bruce
Besides the fact that he shows not one ounce of detective skills? I haven't watched The Batman yet but not one live action Batman iteration has gotten him right. He's a detective first and foremost, yet all live adaptations just show him as a brooding UFC fighter with tech that does more harm than good.
the batman does have detective scenes, its a bit like seven
@neonicon8500
Completely wrong, fucking dumbass. The Keaton films and The Val Kilmer and George Clooney ones all show Batman\Bruce to be a detective, fucking dumbass.
Finally someone addressing this!! Great vid
As far as the voice is concerned, Bale said that when he put on the costume he felt like a BEAST. Hince (lol) he altered his voice to reflect his feelings.
and ot makes sense.
Bruce is f in thr head. naturally he is a kid full of rage.
Bruce isn't not right in thr head cause of the damage. but it makes sense for a broken person to do some voice like and think it's cool lol
he dresses as a bat.. come on lol
Interesting points you bring up. I actually love the first 2 movies. I think they are fantastic. I thought when he took the wrap for dent at the end it was perfect because maroni points out that they know the bat won’t kill and that was why the criminals couldn’t fear him as much as the joker. Now this saves Harvey’s image and gives Batman the edge without him actually committing the act. I felt the first two movies were building up to make this amazing universe. When rises came out I was pumped. Imagine my disappointment when it came out that it was 8 years later and Bruce stopped being Batman. I assumed it was because of his leg. I never even acknowledged that it was Rachel lol so this video made me reflect on that. Also bale’s batman was only batman clocked in for a total of under 2 years. Very upsetting and when I go back and rewatch them I often skip the 3rd
The third movie was a one and done for me. I already barely liked Bale as Batman, even as a kid compared to all the other shows Batman was in around the 90’s/00’s, Bale was the least interesting to me.
I agree I often skip the 3rd or start it & use it as background noise ☮️
It gets worse each time I see it again.
Just stumbled onto your channel. Totally agree with your points and really enjoyed the vid.
I’m curious: what do you think about the batmen since bale? Do you think either of them did the Batman part better?
To be fair. For Keaton's batman it wasn't just that one scene in '89 in a scene in Batman returns Bruce is researching by looking at a newspaper article.
Then there is that scene where he tells alfred that he believes penguin knows who his parents are and that there's something else. Which imo is batman saying "I think he already knew who his parents are, there's something else motivating him."
So Batman is starting to connect dots in his head.
So there are "detective" scenes both in '89 and Returns.
So i'd be one scene in both Batman '89 and Batman Returns then the next two movies fell off.
In forever they are trying to solve the riddles on who is the riddler so that is something as well
@@kyriakoschrist In "Forever" he solves 4 riddles and in "The Batman" he solves one.
Just venting.
@@jonathancampbell5231 i mean that’s not even accurate
@@deanoss777 In "The Batman" it's usually Alfred, Penguin or someone else who solves the riddle
@@jonathancampbell5231 not true, he solves almost all the card riddles himself. he solves all the riddles in the bomb scene and there’s literally like 4 in that scene alone. he solved the one at the beginning of the movie as well.
It seems like this Batman is more like moon knight then actually Batman lol
Always enjoy your thoughts. Never really thought of it like this, but I agree with all of it :)
I always interpreted Batman retiring after The Dark Knight and Rachel's death is because he sees her death and all the events of the film as the fault of Batman. Batman created the Joker and the Joker's crimes were specifically targeting Batman and the ideals Batman stands for. He's realized that, with the Dent Act and Gotham being cleaned up after The Dark Knight, Batman might actually do more harm than good. He doesn't want Batman to inspire more violence and craziness the way he did for The Dark Knight. You could even argue that he believes he's accomplished the mission of shaking Gotham out of apathy that he sets in Batman Begins. Before Bane's arrival, Gotham is in a pretty good place.
All in all, I think this is just a different portrayal of the character that leans much more into the symbolic meaning of Batman than anything else. Batman is a symbol to shake Gotham out of apathy and corruption and that symbol isn't really needed once that goal has been accomplished. Bruce Wayne truly wants to live a life of his own but he worries that Gotham may one day need Batman again, perhaps when he's too old to save it, so he leaves the cave to the younger Detective Blake so that he can be that symbol if Gotham ever falls again.
That is an interesting way to looking at it! Why does this comment not have more likes?
I was playing Batman Arkham knight in the living room with my dad and two face started to talk and I was wearing the dark knight suit in the game and my dad said why does Batman sound so weird and I never really noticed how strange Christian bales Batman voice is until he said that
The dark knight ending is not necessarily bad, actually I would argue it's freaking great...for any other character that isn't Batman, and in my opinion that's where the issue comes from, that it's not a good fit for a Batman story, because that's just not who the character is, great movie anyways, I've always said that it was a great villains movie
I think he played it the best imo, he had enough distinction between Bruce and Batman while maintaining the relationship that is Bruce being the true mask
Afflecks Bruce was Batman 24/7 and Pattinsons Batman is his Bruce 24/7 I feel
And like mentioned in the video his character is the most multi faceted - Batman, Bruce and Asshole Bruce, and each is completely different - I think this was actually a strength to his performance.
And I think he was brilliant as Batman tbh in Begins he was genuinely terrifying and Dark Knight he had a calmer authoritative presence.
Until the joker interrogation - that’s his best moment - the voice was only bad in TDKR imo
For me it's his voice and Gotham....Other then that he's perfect👌
Honestly I think his Batman is fucking boring post Begins. Not just the voice but the writing as a whole. And I have and will always hate him killing Two-Face and especially pulling the surveillance state bullcrap.
I agree with all your remarks in the end, even though I’m madly in love with the trilogy and the character… it may not be the best Batman performance due to the dense and intricate libreto and that prevented the audience to see a bit of the hero in action, but this is a constant in the live action movies except for Keaton, I agree ☝️ Thnx for these in depth analysis
I always wondered why it felt like Bruce got over his parents deaths but I just realized it's because of Rachel and the fact that he was just gonna give up the cowl after her death.. He really should have gone in deeper to the darkness.
"Happy watching. Thank you, sir"
I always enjoy your thoughts on The Bat.
Actually I like Terminator Salvation. And I also like the fact that they had A-10 Warthog attack planes and this version of the resistance held their own having a Air Force and an Army and a Navy.
Underated movie
Had great concepts
I never understood the hate that movie got. It's a lot better than any other sequel past T2.
you brought up a lot of good points in this vid! god his batman voice took me out of the movie so many times. makes me wonder if they ever thought to get/had a voice director on set just to perfect the bat persona. esp since you pointed out kevin conroy's stellar performance who's a voice actor that's just incredible at his job
Really love your stuff man. Great video!
This was a really, really good video!!!! So many good points! I’m one of the biggest Bat fans ever, but hey man, you called it out . 5 stars buddy!! 💯💯💯🙏🏼
This is why I absolutely adore Ben Affleck's Batman because he had a very comic accurate suit, mastered every single fighting style known to man, and has a fuckin voice modulator to intimidate the criminals. Best Batman ever!
Batman does not kill
@@OdileOdile19 His first appearance in comics would say otherwise
@@callmestorm23 yeah, and nobody likes those comics
@@callmestorm23 while you're correct, they changed it early on
@@callmestorm23 the best Batman but yet showed no signs of being the worlds greatest detective and was more happy go as Batman in justice league instead of the dark knight.... Affleck pulled off the fighting style of Batman but that's literally it. Costume doesn't count because Ben isn't the one that chose the suit. I haven't really fell in love with any live action version yet because none of them has been able to actually understand who Batman is. Patterson came close with him being brooding and showing signs that he will be the worlds greatest detective which is one of the more important traits of Batman.
Just found your channel man good stuff 👍
You have to have the best outro in all of TH-cam. Goated.
Vee, I’m still waiting for you to make another video about Buffy or Angel, because you really had some spot on opinions for both shows and would love to hear more, especially about Cordelia’s character arc.
In a Rebirth comic it is shown the first time Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman meet and to learn more about each other Diana lassos them together. Wonder Woman says she is Diana of Themiscyra, Superman says he is Clark Kent of the Daily Planet, and Batman simply says: "I'm Batman".
I disagree on definitively saying he’s just Batman, I think bringing him down as a character to a certain thing is a bit of a oversimplification of what he is as a character. In my opinion, both Playboy Bruce and Batman are exaggerations of Bruce’s true self not masks necessarily. The real absolute Bruce is the one most don’t see, the one in the cave or that comes out when with his loved ones. Playboy Bruce is the egotistical, cocky, and show off self of Bruce personified and multiplied. While Batman is Bruce’s rage, pain and sense of justice personified and multiplied as well. They both are extensions of Bruce and represent parts of him but aren’t necessarily completely who he is.
One is him embracing his demons and using them to fight crime. While the other is him trying to suppress his demons and show out for the public.
The person who Alfred raised. The man who was a mentor and caring person to Dick, Jason, and Damian when they had no one else. That is the true unaltered Bruce Wayne.
Also to further expand there have been other examples in comics that show that, that isn’t true. Or at least in actuality it isn’t true, maybe Bruce views it as true, but it certainly isnt
@@gabebartlett9680 I dunno, this and the line from the Timmverse when Old Man Bruce tells Terry that in his mind he refers to himself as "Batman" and not Bruce leads me to believe many writing the character see it that way. I do get what you're saying, though. It's hard to pin down these characters because they have many different authors with different agendas.
Thank you, for years I've talked about my problems with Christian Bale's Batman and people act like I have a third arm growing out of my head.
Ben Affleck and Robert Pattinson's Batmans had a factor I noticed that Bale's Batman was severely lacking. Fear. Oh sure, the Nolan films TALK about how scary Bale's Batman is, but never once in all three Films did I ever find him scary or intimidating or buy that criminals would be afraid of him.
You're right. The problem is Bale's Batman was too busy looking good with a snazzy costume. He lacked the martial arts skills and that specific 𝚝𝚎𝚛𝚛𝚘𝚛𝚒𝚣𝚒𝚗𝚐 factor which Batman should have.
I agree while Bale is a great actor I never felt this Batman was scary or threatening I found it to be kinda grating after a while but his Bruce Wayne is solid
Comic joker: a clown-themed mobster
Dark Knight Joker: a clown-themed terrorist/anarchist/freedom fighter
Comic Batman: a cold bat-themed detective
Dark Knight Batman: a furious bat-theme vigilante
The voice in the beginning that says piss off , where is it from ?
Weirdly, Bat Man was an afterthought when watching these movies.
I'm so glad to hear I wasn't the only one disappointed by Bale like this, I would honestly love to see a deeper exploration in a tv series with the same tone and feel as Daredevil.
The one line that gets me from daredevil that would be great in Batman is “I’m doing this because I enjoy it”.
Pattinson Batman wants to beat down everyone and an acknowledgment of that would show how messed up Batman can be when he’s starting. Daredevil is probably the best superhero series because it does the characters justice at every level.
CHRISTIAN BALE'S BATMAN was awsome he did not disappoint anyone as batman he was born to play batman and i loved 1989 batman growing up to.
Counterpoint on the Voice: When he drops the rasp to tell Harvey "It wasn't" after Harvey asks why he was the only one who lost everything hits pretty hard. So... yes, raspy voice was corny, but when Bats said that one line it was effective.
Nothing. Nobodies perfect, but Bale - and the whole Nolan trilogy were so beyond good that we’re a little bit spoiled. No one has strung 3 movies together in a series with such a wonderful combination of depth, action, tragedy, victory, heart, and quality.
Lord of the Rings and the first Star Wars trilogy are also great trilogies. But for me - TDK trilogy tops them all.
Do the problem with ben affleck’s batman
I thought I read somewhere that before the tragic loss of Heath Ledger the third of Nolan’s Batman films was going to be something along the lines of ”The Trial of The Joker”.
That would’ve been interesting
Don't completely agree on the voice part but you make solid points. Great video. Keep up the good work.
Makes sense he would change his voice to conceal his identity. Bruce wayne as a public figure, people could figure out he's batman based on his voice.
I'd love to see videos on the other Batman actors like Keaton, Affleck and Pattinson (maybe even Kilmer and Clooney).
This is the one I've been waiting on!
Batman is peak physical athleticism, a tactician, a detective, and fighter. I didn't get ANY of that from Bale's Batman.
Good movies. Bad Batman.
Probably the best Bruce Wayne ever in live action but the worst Batman I love the movies but not for the title character for his persona outside of the Bat Suit sadly Adam West did the Bat better and that was like 90 or 80% campy stuff
The series as a whole def dropped the ball on that front. The first movie wqs the only one that highlighted those skills fairly well even though the combat was really dodgy once it turned from Batman's stealth takedowns to actual on foot combat.
Best Bruce Wayne by a mile
@@emperortrevornorton3119 no argument there. They definitely got Bruce Wayne right.
You can't really say he wasn't a tactician. There's plenty of times examples throughout the trilogy that show him strategically taking out does and rescuing hostages.
13:40 'The Bruce Wayne I know' sounds like you know him personally 😂. Nice video btw!
It doesn't help that The Dark Knight Rises left me feeling quite non-plussed. During the escape from the pit scene, I kept thinking....ummm...did someone really want a Rocky training montage crammed in here? Or the tunnel that felt akin to "Quick! we need the entire NYPD on the 17th floor of the Empire State Building! We have someone there who didn't pay for his donut this morning!" And don't even get me started on the cheese factor that having the REAL name Robin matters. Dick, Jason, or even Todd would have been more of a wink instead of a sledgehammer of subtlety.
Christian Bale is in my top 3 favorite Batman actors with Robert Pattinson and Michael Keaton
Pattinson is better than bale in my opinion
@@skywalker2676 I respect your opinion because Pattison is a great Batman too
Same Very cool we almost have the same list my top 3 fav actor to play batman is Ben affleck, Robert P and Michael John Douglas
I agree even though I didn’t feel he was a good Bruce either cause in my opinion the character was broken up into 3 characters like u said Bruce Wayne Batman and Batman out of suit that we saw in the shipping container that was doubling as a batcave while Wayne manor was being rebuilt cause in those scenes he felt more like Batman just not wearing the suit and when he drove the Lamborghini to save mr Reese he didn’t save him as “Bruce Wayne” he saved him as Batman looking like Bruce Wayne cause he choose not to look like Batman but was acting as Batman cause he thought it wouldn’t be suddle enough in the daytime to be Batman to Adam west is the only one who truly understood both Bruce Wayne and Batman to make both feel like characters in there own right despite how campy the show and movie were they actually understood Batman the best I have seen yet
Love the vids, Infuso, and while I think you usually make great points, I have to disagree on one thing. I always understood that Batman takes the blame for Harvey's Death because, well, Harvey is clearly...dead. Gordon had a perimeter set up when Dent took the family hostage. The cops knew something was going on. You can't just say you don't know what's happening or blame the Joker, whose already in prison. Gordon would have to tell the police something, and if it were the truth, the mob would be set free because Dent's reputation is ultimately what put them behind bars. Batman took the fall because it was either him, Gordon, or Dent's reputation. He took the best option
there is something in the part where the doctor tell him his injuries that make me think that he didnt stop after the dark knight. something tells me that it took years for him to quit.
The comic book moment that fully supports your commentary on Batman being who he really is and Bruce Wayne is the mask he wears. wonder woman was using her lasso of truth to force everyone in the justice league to divulge their secret identity and when it’s his turn he very casually says “I am Batman.” Indicating that is who he truly feels he is.
I hope she had a broken face after he said that, as if to say "OMG. You poor man."
...but that does NOT support it, fucking dumbass.
@@MrParkerman6 actually yes it very much does. When in contact with the lasso of truth you can’t lie, you are physically incapable of doing so. It’s extremely painful if you try and you end up saying the truth anyway! And when asked all of the other heroes give their real names. When he’s asked the same question of who he is he says Batman. Diana had to rephrase the question to get him to say his real name by asking him what his birth certificates says. (His idea for transparency not hers)
THANK U! Finally I’m not the only one! I very much enjoy So many elements of these movies from directing , other performances, cinematography, tone but Bales Voice as Batman instantly takes me out of it plus the fact that me and bale are the same height and build. Batman should be broad and intimidating. That was when he pulls off these crazy physical feats it’s believable. R.Patts Batman even seems larger and more imposing. It’s why I love Batfleck, his appearance is perfect imo and no stupid voice
I liked batfleck and battinson better than bale
My biggest complaint was his Batman not only wasn’t the worlds greatest detective. He seems somewhat dim .
Also, as someone who knows a thing or two about forensic sciences; that whole “fingerprint in the shattered bullet in the cement wall cutout” thing was absolute bullshit
Meant to say this in the last video about the Joker, he was like an anti- Mary Sue in "The Dark Knight". He experienced no set-backs. Even when he got arrested everything went according to plan. It was bad writing to have the guy carrying a bomb in his stomach in the right place at the right time to kill all the cops and to let Joker kidnap Harvey and Rachel off-camera. The "game theory" scenario with the two detonators also had a weakness - it should've been made clear either detonator would blow up both boats.
Combine that with some other problems (Two Face getting shoe-horned in, the silly Hong Kong stopover, stuff you mentioned) and this was the weakest of the Nolan trilogy.
They should've had Harvey disappear after the hospital scene and then later Batman and Gordon learn that half the mob has been killed and a bunch of other people related to Rachael's death. It would've been great because then he can come back as one of the main villains in the sequel and get a proper entrance, and then you get to connect the dots with Gordon and Batman that Harvey was the one who killed those people.
Harvey's fate at the hospital should've been a mystery to Batman. Then Batman can feel that extra bit of guilt and worry
The entire purpose of Batman in this trilogy was to give the city back to the people, and Rachel said once he was done with Batman they could be together so for Batman, to capture the joker, and save the day. Once again, he preserved Harvey’s legacy, and retired because the city was back in the hands of the people. There was nothing left for him to do. this trilogy doesn’t really take into account. The lore of Bruce doing what he does endlessly since this was a more real world approach. It’s kind of like a professional athlete achieving all goals, and then retire but if there’s nothing there then what. yeah, no real reason to keep going back out there. Plus he was physically injured. That’s the only point I would disagree with you on for the most part.
Despite the general concensus, I personally think "Batman Begins" is a better batman movie than "The Dark Knight" while the later is a good movie overall if that makes sense.
Great roast, i liked the batman, but this gives me a new perspective , and i find all the parodys funny as well, this is really fun, and funny thanks 🙂
I don't blame anyone for hating the voice. "wHeRe ArE tHeY!?!?!?" Happy watching. Thank you, sir
Edit: Also, I think the suit in The Batman is the dark knight suit done right.
Always preferred Michael Keaton's portrayal. As you stated, his Batman voice was way better. And he was just more naturally dark and intimidating without trying.
Plus I always liked how calm, silent, mysterious, subtle & theatrical his version was, whereas Bale just always too angry and aggressive for my liking. Keaton even had the better looking cape and cowl. Just his bat glares alone were spot on.
No one to move angry than Ben Affleck
Keaton look like old bruce wayne now lol
I'm glad you gave him praise and didn't just make a single batman video, you broke down enough to know as a watcher you're not a hater
After seeing Pattinson take on Batman I agree with your take on the voice. Pattinson didn’t exaggerate the steepness of his voice, he just talked deeper and more whispery.