How could any saxophonist view this video, and than want to have anything to do with this individual. It is clear his only motivation in life is to exploit the innocent ignorance of saxophonists for his personal gain. "Caveat Emptor" being the law of the land, means buyers SHOULD beware. Thanks for posting this.
In response to gcrav. The NAPBIRT member in question was actually reporting on the internet the several instances of where Steve Goodson had cheated his repair customers in an effort to help others not to be cheated. Goodson who was not a member, rejoined for the sole purpose of filing a complaint under Article 7 of the Code of Conduct: "The member shall not, at any time injure the reputation or business relationship of another professional technician".The finding of the board of directors was NOT that Goodson was not guilty of those charges, but that those issues were between Goodson and his customers. In other words they would not take sides. That member nevertheless was expelled under a technicality and Goodson just got a slap on the wrist for HIS vulgar and spiteful posts on the internet. Following a legal action for "wrongful expulsion", the member was reinstated as a member in good standing, had his legal fees paid by NAPBIRT, the board member who "bullied" the other members into approving the expulsion is no longer on the board of directors, and NAPBIRT requested the resignation of Steve Goodson for bringing up the mess to begin with. That is the true account of the events.
Mr. Goodson sells very good Vietnamese saxophones branded under his own name, but he also sells many products that don't effect the sound of the saxophones. But the "believers" and the "vibrationalists" will always believe in such voodoo and magic and Mr. Goodson is smart enough to take advantage of that. As they say, all is fair in love, war and business!!!
I think people here might want to consider the context of this. These are obviously light-hearted opening remarks to a presentation given to repair technicians. Most techs I know are very fair. If they can learn new techniques to increase their efficiency and their income, what's wrong with that? They need to pay mortgages, fill their gas tanks and feed their families, too. Those who think this is out of line need to see a seminar for those selling real estate, cars, boats, condos, vacuums, etc.
As far as being an apologist, I'm not ready to head the SG fan club, build a shrine to him in my studio, or take a bullet for him. I do, however, have saxes he's designed and they're serving me well. I've gotten useful info from his websites, and have had a few questions answered in his forum. I'm not in a position to pass judgement on the sins he may or may not have committed. If he didn't have some satisfied, happy customers, though, he wouldn't still be in business, would he?
No, I am the real Lee Blaske. Are you the real jbtsax? ;) If you Googled me, you'd see I'm pretty active in forums. Anyway, I don't want to get into a battle royal over this. I just think that crucifying SG for some candid, humorous remarks in a seminar for techs about offering additional services is over the top. I happen to own some of SG's products, and have read a lot of the stuff he has out there. Sure, he's got a big personality, but the world would be dull without people like that.
Wow. I've repaired saxophones for almost 20 years now....and being a sax player as well, I would NEVER EVER conform to this way of thinking. All I can say is...I'm VERY disappointed in hearing this come out of Steve's mouth. I've met him a few times on occasion at the NAMM show and he's seemed pleasant enough....however, after seeing this, I'm very disheartened. After seeing this, I don't think I could ever look at this guy the same way ever again. Very sad.
Well, you're right, but welcome to the modern world. I like Apple Computers, too, and I watch Steve Jobs wax eloquently about them. Apple computers share parts and technology with a lot of other computers, and I don't think Steve Jobs designs and builds them himself. I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes with SG instruments, but he seems genuine to me. It's my impression that he has a lot of input into these instruments. I haven't seen anything quite like them elsewhere.
I'm not a repair tech, but I know there's precious little that "only" takes 10 minutes. Plus, add in bookkeeping, overhead, etc. Besides, if he's out teaching this repair, maybe there are other places to get it done more cheaply. Check into it. Also, why would anyone waste time doing reconnaissance on Steve's forum, analyzing syntax, etc.? Surely, there are greater wrongs and injustices in this world than $100 never stick G# key repairs. Playing a sax is more fun than feuding. Isn't it?
Because his horns are made in Taiwan and like a lot of horns made in Taiwan, only last for so long. With this in mind, saxophonists will either have to keep recycling his saxophones or eventually shell out and get a real horn like a Selmer, Yamaha, Keilwerth or Yanagisawa. Even with all of the 'extra' bracing, rod guards, and double arms, if they are all made of a cheap metal, it will not hold up very long.
Steve talks a lot about "designing" through altering the metal components (and the associated "vibration") of necks, bells and tubes for "enhancing" the sound of his horns. This is a frequently encountered theme that is based on pseudo-science, not physics. The resonant frequencies of these metal components are generally far above the audible range of the saxophone notes and thus the metal itself, has negligible impact on the horn sound. Just voicing this idea gives an impression of being "techie" and can influence folks who don't know any better. The internal horn component cavity shapes (geometry), do however have potential for altering the subtlety of the note sounds. Technical analysis and design of such, is fairly complex and generally requires technical knowledge far beyond most musicians scientific education. One can potentially, however, use trial and error, to find improvements in cavity geometry, without understanding precisely why it happens. My impression is that Steve just wants to come off as an expert and uses whatever language he thinks sounds good. On the other hand, I believe that he does have a lot of practical experience and knowledge about horn playing and basic sax repair.
OMG! Hasn't anyone here that said he's a crook ever thought about the possibility that he might merely be being sarcastic! Steve is anything but a crook! He truly cares about his customers and wants only the highest level of satisfaction from them!
I have a feeling this may have been taken out of context. Perhaps he was going to go on to teach his class special techniques to make the work worth more, and thus get more money, which is of course he goal.
Wow, just did a little more reading, and this thing between you and Steve is really deep, angry and extensive. I don't personally know you or Steve, but I can see I wouldn't want to be on the bad side of either of you guys. So, I'm just going to turn around and tiptoe out of here. No hard feelings, OK? I hope it all comes to a peaceful resolution someday. I've been in a handful of acrimonious tussles on the internet, and ended up being good friends with my former enemies. It can happen!
I find this clip shocking, but if the greatest repairman of all times means the greatest at fleecing the customer for every penny then the previous commentator may be correct, this video seems to suggest as much. But I thought repairing was more about "....doing a good job for an honest wage." as I heard an experienced repairman put it recently. Guess I'm just naive!
Well, Googling those terms, I see you guys do have quite a history. Personally, I have no way of establishing the validity of claims or counter claims, so I can't make any judgement. The sum total of my limited experience with SG to date has only been positive. I would say that maybe he's a little too hands on with customers. When you get to a certain business size, it's often better to let some customers be right, even if there's some doubt. Forum battles grind everybody down. Nobody wins.
but he's talking about making money, not being a repairman. Yes, repairmen have to make a living.. but-- "we've got to get as much money out of their pockets and into our pockets as possible" !! at least the world can know where he's coming from. and I know to steer clear
Wow. No holds barred. Worst thing is that he's completely dishonest all over the web; taking pseudonyms and supporting his own business. Good thing he's being exposed too.
Regarding attacking the messenger, remember I'm looking at this with fresh eyes. I searched what you asked, and was taken to hundreds (over 1000?) links where you're attacking SG. If his name shows up on the web, jbtsax is there like a laser guided missile. This appears to have been going on for 5+ years. OJ doesn't get that much attention from Ron Goldman! Try keeping a diary of how often you think about SG during the day. Is SG so evil that he deserves that much of your time and attention?
jbtsax, I retreated from this discussion because frankly, after reading many of your highly charged comments on the web, I didn't want to be one of your targets, too. It really seems, though, that you're making a career of harassing Steve Goodson and destroying his business (and others, like Paul Coats). That doesn't seem right. Many reasonable people seem to be calling on you to give it a rest, and that might be good advice. It's not good to let things like this turn into an obsession.
Hey Steve! why do you want this clip removed? If you stand behind what you said in this video whats the problem? This clip says all anyone needs to know about the kind of person you are and what your motivation is. Youre a disgrace; and you can take that to the bank....
Well, I guess time will tell then. So far, things are holding up very well for me, with no trouble whatsoever. The horn definitely does not have a "cheap" fell. My local repair person gave the instrument a favorable review. YMMV. Perhaps there were problems early on that have since been rectified.
Steve Goodson is NOT a crook. He is an honest man and a great friend. I proudly play his Voodoo Rex alto, it's an amazing horn! Obviously you've taken this out of context.
NAPBIRT investigated the accusations against Mr. Goodson and found them without merit. His accuser was a minor league tech from Utah who stalked him on the internet for years after some ego clash. That tech continued to sling his acccusations around in web forums and was expelled from NAPBIRT for slander. Slandering Goodson is common on SOTW, but not on any reputable woodwind or musicians' forum.
"Saxophone players are quite insane". He's not lying with that one. As a horn player I've tried all kinds of things, mouthpieces, silver plated necks yadda yadda at great personal expense. Nothing beats practicing and gigging, the rest is jive. As a repair person (tube amplifiers) I've persuaded many folks NOT to buy magic capacitors etc and just go home and write some songs and play your guitar, get the tone from your fingers. Some folks didn't like me telling them that and insisted that JOe The Forum Dude must know what he is talking about and they would fork over a lotta dough anyway. I am always honest with my customers and some of them just don't want the truth anyway.
And BTW, if Steve was really intent on making every last dollar he could from repair, why does he design his saxophones with extra bracing, additional key guards, additional rod guards, double arms on lower keys, etc., all with the express purpose of keeping horns OUT of the repair shop?
Interesting, this clip is from my "Alternative Saxophone Repair" video, which is copyrighted, and is used without permission. As the owner of the coyright, I demand that this clip be removed immediately.
Joel has no idea what he's talking about. High end Asian horns are better made than most horns coming out of Europe these days and they still cost way less. And the high copper alloys that they're starting to use are more resilient and stronger than the generic 70/30 brass that most horns are made of.
milandro is one guy who thinks he knows a lot more than he actually does, and by his own admission has absolutely no direct experience with SG products. Just another guy talking out his azz on the internet.
![[UNCUT] ลูกหมี-ลิลลี่ เหงียน เปิดใจฟาด ปู มัณฑนา I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 15 ก.ค.67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FKQ60Y7bJ6s/mqdefault.jpg)
He might as well have said, Lets make the customers feel like they're getting laid when they're really getting f'd.
What a freak of nature!
How could any saxophonist view this video, and than want to have anything to do with this individual. It is clear his only motivation in life is to exploit the innocent ignorance of saxophonists for his personal gain. "Caveat Emptor" being the law of the land, means buyers SHOULD beware. Thanks for posting this.
In response to gcrav. The NAPBIRT member in question was actually reporting on the internet the several instances of where Steve Goodson had cheated his repair customers in an effort to help others not to be cheated. Goodson who was not a member, rejoined for the sole purpose of filing a complaint under Article 7 of the Code of Conduct: "The member shall not, at any time injure the reputation or business relationship of another professional technician".The finding of the board of directors was NOT that Goodson was not guilty of those charges, but that those issues were between Goodson and his customers. In other words they would not take sides. That member nevertheless was expelled under a technicality and Goodson just got a slap on the wrist for HIS vulgar and spiteful posts on the internet. Following a legal action for "wrongful expulsion", the member was reinstated as a member in good standing, had his legal fees paid by NAPBIRT, the board member who "bullied" the other members into approving the expulsion is no longer on the board of directors, and NAPBIRT requested the resignation of Steve Goodson for bringing up the mess to begin with. That is the true account of the events.
Mr. Goodson sells very good Vietnamese saxophones branded under his own name, but he also sells many products that don't effect the sound of the saxophones. But the "believers" and the "vibrationalists" will always believe in such voodoo and magic and Mr. Goodson is smart enough to take advantage of that. As they say, all is fair in love, war and business!!!
How to screw over innocent and impressionable people for a buck. Real class. The word is out on this man...
I think people here might want to consider the context of this. These are obviously light-hearted opening remarks to a presentation given to repair technicians. Most techs I know are very fair. If they can learn new techniques to increase their efficiency and their income, what's wrong with that? They need to pay mortgages, fill their gas tanks and feed their families, too. Those who think this is out of line need to see a seminar for those selling real estate, cars, boats, condos, vacuums, etc.
As far as being an apologist, I'm not ready to head the SG fan club, build a shrine to him in my studio, or take a bullet for him. I do, however, have saxes he's designed and they're serving me well. I've gotten useful info from his websites, and have had a few questions answered in his forum. I'm not in a position to pass judgement on the sins he may or may not have committed. If he didn't have some satisfied, happy customers, though, he wouldn't still be in business, would he?
No, I am the real Lee Blaske. Are you the real jbtsax? ;) If you Googled me, you'd see I'm pretty active in forums. Anyway, I don't want to get into a battle royal over this. I just think that crucifying SG for some candid, humorous remarks in a seminar for techs about offering additional services is over the top. I happen to own some of SG's products, and have read a lot of the stuff he has out there. Sure, he's got a big personality, but the world would be dull without people like that.
Wow. I've repaired saxophones for almost 20 years now....and being a sax player as well, I would NEVER EVER conform to this way of thinking. All I can say is...I'm VERY disappointed in hearing this come out of Steve's mouth. I've met him a few times on occasion at the NAMM show and he's seemed pleasant enough....however, after seeing this, I'm very disheartened. After seeing this, I don't think I could ever look at this guy the same way ever again. Very sad.
Spouse has extravagant taste?
Except in husbands, it seems...
Well, you're right, but welcome to the modern world. I like Apple Computers, too, and I watch Steve Jobs wax eloquently about them. Apple computers share parts and technology with a lot of other computers, and I don't think Steve Jobs designs and builds them himself. I have no idea what goes on behind the scenes with SG instruments, but he seems genuine to me. It's my impression that he has a lot of input into these instruments. I haven't seen anything quite like them elsewhere.
I'm not a repair tech, but I know there's precious little that "only" takes 10 minutes. Plus, add in bookkeeping, overhead, etc. Besides, if he's out teaching this repair, maybe there are other places to get it done more cheaply. Check into it.
Also, why would anyone waste time doing reconnaissance on Steve's forum, analyzing syntax, etc.? Surely, there are greater wrongs and injustices in this world than $100 never stick G# key repairs. Playing a sax is more fun than feuding. Isn't it?
Because his horns are made in Taiwan and like a lot of horns made in Taiwan, only last for so long. With this in mind, saxophonists will either have to keep recycling his saxophones or eventually shell out and get a real horn like a Selmer, Yamaha, Keilwerth or Yanagisawa. Even with all of the 'extra' bracing, rod guards, and double arms, if they are all made of a cheap metal, it will not hold up very long.
Steve talks a lot about "designing" through altering the metal components (and the associated "vibration") of necks, bells and tubes for "enhancing" the sound of his horns. This is a frequently encountered theme that is based on pseudo-science, not physics. The resonant frequencies of these metal components are generally far above the audible range of the saxophone notes and thus the metal itself, has negligible impact on the horn sound. Just voicing this idea gives an impression of being "techie" and can influence folks who don't know any better.
The internal horn component cavity shapes (geometry), do however have potential for altering the subtlety of the note sounds. Technical analysis and design of such, is fairly complex and generally requires technical knowledge far beyond most musicians scientific education. One can potentially, however, use trial and error, to find improvements in cavity geometry, without understanding precisely why it happens. My impression is that Steve just wants to come off as an expert and uses whatever language he thinks sounds good. On the other hand, I believe that he does have a lot of practical experience and knowledge about horn playing and basic sax repair.
Nice to know what the other side is thinking...Cheers Steve.
depressing really. and, yes, shocking, too.
OMG! Hasn't anyone here that said he's a crook ever thought about the possibility that he might merely be being sarcastic! Steve is anything but a crook! He truly cares about his customers and wants only the highest level of satisfaction from them!
I have a feeling this may have been taken out of context. Perhaps he was going to go on to teach his class special techniques to make the work worth more, and thus get more money, which is of course he goal.
Wow, just did a little more reading, and this thing between you and Steve is really deep, angry and extensive. I don't personally know you or Steve, but I can see I wouldn't want to be on the bad side of either of you guys. So, I'm just going to turn around and tiptoe out of here. No hard feelings, OK?
I hope it all comes to a peaceful resolution someday. I've been in a handful of acrimonious tussles on the internet, and ended up being good friends with my former enemies. It can happen!
Steve only allows comments from one of his 15 alter egos.
I find this clip shocking, but if the greatest repairman of all times means the greatest at fleecing the customer for every penny then the previous commentator may be correct, this video seems to suggest as much. But I thought repairing was more about "....doing a good job for an honest wage." as I heard an experienced repairman put it recently. Guess I'm just naive!
I don't think I'll be sending him my horns anytime soon to "fix".
Well, Googling those terms, I see you guys do have quite a history. Personally, I have no way of establishing the validity of claims or counter claims, so I can't make any judgement. The sum total of my limited experience with SG to date has only been positive.
I would say that maybe he's a little too hands on with customers. When you get to a certain business size, it's often better to let some customers be right, even if there's some doubt. Forum battles grind everybody down. Nobody wins.
@mississippisaxguy And John Talcott is no longer a member of NAPBIRT.. Seems he was thrown out ?!?
but he's talking about making money, not being a repairman. Yes, repairmen have to make a living.. but-- "we've got to get as much money out of their pockets and into our pockets as possible" !!
at least the world can know where he's coming from.
and I know to steer clear
Wow. No holds barred. Worst thing is that he's completely dishonest all over the web; taking pseudonyms and supporting his own business. Good thing he's being exposed too.
Regarding attacking the messenger, remember I'm looking at this with fresh eyes. I searched what you asked, and was taken to hundreds (over 1000?) links where you're attacking SG. If his name shows up on the web, jbtsax is there like a laser guided missile. This appears to have been going on for 5+ years. OJ doesn't get that much attention from Ron Goldman! Try keeping a diary of how often you think about SG during the day. Is SG so evil that he deserves that much of your time and attention?
Low end techs end up costing you more, in my experience. High end techs depend upon their reputation.
jbtsax, I retreated from this discussion because frankly, after reading many of your highly charged comments on the web, I didn't want to be one of your targets, too. It really seems, though, that you're making a career of harassing Steve Goodson and destroying his business (and others, like Paul Coats). That doesn't seem right. Many reasonable people seem to be calling on you to give it a rest, and that might be good advice. It's not good to let things like this turn into an obsession.
Hey Steve! why do you want this clip removed? If you stand behind what you said in this video whats the problem? This clip says all anyone needs to know about the kind of person you are and what your motivation is. Youre a disgrace; and you can take that to the bank....
If he's such a joke, then why are his products so awesome?
Well, I guess time will tell then. So far, things are holding up very well for me, with no trouble whatsoever. The horn definitely does not have a "cheap" fell. My local repair person gave the instrument a favorable review. YMMV. Perhaps there were problems early on that have since been rectified.
Steve Goodson is NOT a crook. He is an honest man and a great friend. I proudly play his Voodoo Rex alto, it's an amazing horn! Obviously you've taken this out of context.
NAPBIRT investigated the accusations against Mr. Goodson and found them without merit. His accuser was a minor league tech from Utah who stalked him on the internet for years after some ego clash. That tech continued to sling his acccusations around in web forums and was expelled from NAPBIRT for slander. Slandering Goodson is common on SOTW, but not on any reputable woodwind or musicians' forum.
"Saxophone players are quite insane". He's not lying with that one. As a horn player I've tried all kinds of things, mouthpieces, silver plated necks yadda yadda at great personal expense. Nothing beats practicing and gigging, the rest is jive. As a repair person (tube amplifiers) I've persuaded many folks NOT to buy magic capacitors etc and just go home and write some songs and play your guitar, get the tone from your fingers. Some folks didn't like me telling them that and insisted that JOe The Forum Dude must know what he is talking about and they would fork over a lotta dough anyway. I am always honest with my customers and some of them just don't want the truth anyway.
And BTW, if Steve was really intent on making every last dollar he could from repair, why does he design his saxophones with extra bracing, additional key guards, additional rod guards, double arms on lower keys, etc., all with the express purpose of keeping horns OUT of the repair shop?
Interesting, this clip is from my "Alternative Saxophone Repair" video, which is copyrighted, and is used without permission. As the owner of the coyright, I demand that this clip be removed immediately.
How's that working out for ya?
Joel has no idea what he's talking about. High end Asian horns are better made than most horns coming out of Europe these days and they still cost way less. And the high copper alloys that they're starting to use are more resilient and stronger than the generic 70/30 brass that most horns are made of.
milandro is one guy who thinks he knows a lot more than he actually does, and by his own admission has absolutely no direct experience with SG products. Just another guy talking out his azz on the internet.