Saxophone Repair Topic: The Best Saxophone Pads
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- Saxophone repairman Matt Stohrer of www.StohrerMusi... gives a typically long-winded and intensive answer to the seemingly simple (and oft-asked) question: what are the best pads for my saxophone?
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I have switched to a basically-the-same pad from Pisoni but from a different, new USA distributor that I am working with directly because Ferree's prices have gone off the deep end (like five bucks per pad!) since the pandemic, while the wholesale prices have not gone up nearly as much. So I switched suppliers in late 2021 and I get them for about half what Ferree's charges now. If you are a repairer and can make *bulk orders* and would like the info, email me.
The pad I am using is basically the same, except with a slightly thicker skin, which was my only complaint about the B58M. Also the backing paper says "Pisoni" now.
Re-padding my third saxophone and this is a wealth of information. Mistake number one. My first job was on a Selmer Alto with Saxgormet Black RooPads. Big mistake for a beginner. It was difficult to seat the pads. I ended up removing them and used Music Medics Soft Feel domed pads with great success. A repair tech friend said the Saxgormet RooPads were very popular years ago so he bought a bunch. Now he’s sitting on boxes of them and no one is asking for them anymore.
Quote "if you want your sax to play right, the thing you want is your repairer to be comfortable with the materials they are using" I agree.
Still the best pad video on the internet.
Still true in 2023
I really appreciate how in-depth your videos are. Not only do you provide expert advice, but you also come off as a very genuine and objective professional. I am switching from the clarinet to the saxophone, and I want to thank you for sharing your knowledge with us!!!
It's really useful for me that, as a beginner in saxophone repair. Not long-winded at all. Thanks!
Matt, your videos are awesome. Thank you for the time you take to make them.
Re: pad thickness, I think a mouthpiece analogy might bring it better in focus. The difference of .025” is the difference between a 6* and a 9 tip opening for an Otto Link tenor mouthpiece. Thanks for your informative videos, Matt!
Another thorough and detailed video. Thank you! Your emphasis that a tech's comfort and experience with a make/model of pad is far more important than the pad itself (once you reach a certain quality level) really makes sense to me. You can bet I'll keep that in mind when I bring my horns in for their next re-pad.
Omigosh, this so helpful. I've never in my life overhauled a saxophone, but a few years ago I picked up an alto saxophone for twenty-five bucks and I sort of left it alone, as it seemed to have a chronic acidic smell. I finally decided to gut the sax and learn a little about its anatomy, and when I fished out all the pads, they were black and rotten and just...ehg.
I truly hope those pads were dunked in tea and nibbled like little flavour bombs
Thank you Matt. Great to speak with you.
Thank you Matt for sharing your knowledge and experience. I’ll certainly work with the technician on pad selection.
Pure gold.
Interesting discussion. Had occasion to do a full repad on 1923 Conn Alto and used reso pads. I was amazed how they held up and covered. The combo of rolled holes plus the metal ring was awesome. Your comment s on sets was dead on. I do like Ferees for pads. Thanks Matt!
damn, this dude is playing at expert level. Love the video. thank you sir!!!!
nutmegger1957 That's a key advantage to using the HW Padsaver (NOT the Rico Padguard) instead of a swab. A swab will push moisture and contaminants into the tonehole chimneys. The fibers of the Padsaver can clean moisture and contaminants out of the tonehole chimneys if you oscillate and rotate it. Just don't store a wet Padsaver inside the horn, especially in a closed case.
Thank you Matt
Good morning Matt only adhesive in the tube e.g. Evo Stick is available in Guyana so that is what lve been usingall the time.
Great informatie video as usual Matt, thank you for your time and effort. Couldnt Fins any good video's on pad work anywhere yet. Looping forward to see your video's on pad work and pads installation, thanks in avance .
Happy New Year Matt. Thanks so much for the time and info. Could you do a similar topic on types of adhesives. There pro's and con's.. Thanks
Tom
Hey Matt, really appreciate all the insights in the videos! I was wondering what techniques you have for flattening lumpy or slightly bent pads?
Matt, this is invaluable stuff - Many thanks
can you do a video like this about resonators?
Matt,....re:,,...pad consistency, I used .160's a lot from the aspect that as a small shop, it can get prohibitive stocking 4 or 5 different different types of pads from Sop.-Bari size. With respect to square flat pad facing, In addition to poor adhesion or fit of leather, I think that some man. don't keep their felt cutting dies sharp enough, so when the felt gets punched out of the sheet it gets distorted. There's nothing that's a bigger pain than not being able to use the horn man. recc. thickness and have to re-adjust the venting correspondingly.
Awesome man...always enjoy what you share.
My question is..........what can I do, on a regular basis, to keep the pads in goo order; keep them from sticking. Rags that you run thru the instrument to clean it, don't do anything with cleaning the area where the pads meet the hole rims.
Matt thanks for posting
you spray water on some pads @ approx. 13.35. By the end of the video the JL Smith Valentino pad has water stains on the leather. That to me is a very porous pad, something I would want to avoid. In my opinion pads from Ferree's or Prestini are good quality .I tried pads from Musicmedic but had problems seating them, had to junk them in the end.
Maybe I missed it but I didn't hear you mention anything about felt density. As I am sure you know in most of the catalogues or websites pads are listed specifying the different thicknesses and denseness or weave of the felt used.
Really liked this one!
Thanks for the info. You are Great!!!
Is there a video that explains the importance of actually having resonators on saxophone pads, the different kinds of material of resonators, the reason for the different designs and how they work for different applications? Thanks.
+Tim Randall (in response to what you said prior to the edit) I have played many old saxes with rivets only and they played extremely well (Selmer BA with Tonex pads, King Zephyr Special with original rivet pads, among others)- as did some with only a center stitch (really old Conns with original pads). I think my reasoning above also applies in general with resonators, although with the difference than resonators do have an effect. However, I think that effect is more limited than most people imagine. Perhaps I will make a video in the future, though it would be a short one and dissatisfying to people who are looking for more than the following information which is my interpretation of what I have seen and experienced:
- resonators vs. no resonators, resonators seem to turn the volume up a little bit overall, especially if the leather is soft/fuzzy or porous
- doming makes it a little brighter
- metal seems to be brighter than plastic
- plastic seems to absorb some of the very high/crispy parts of the sound
- more coverage increases effect
But much like what I was saying above, you can have oversized solid platinum resonators and it won't matter if you've got leaks or if your key heights are too low- the horn will be stuffy and dead.
Thank you, you bring an understanding.
Beautiful....guys
Thanks! Great video
You forgot JS Gold pads,which give the most sound of all of them,as the air flow reflects of them more than skin,as they are made from gold dust..but only can use on straight-totally level tone holes & perfectly setup mechanics. And they last about forever..
Very informative
Thank you, this is very informative. Do you carry Dark honey gold Lacquer (cognac) spray to touch up an Alto P Mauriat 67RCL Saxophone? or do you know which color number that matches it?
incredible video!........
Ferrees b58s leather is quite different now ,i wish they were the same as before.
You the Man!
I have a cheap tenor saxophone about $600 I bought it brand new and it’s n about two weeks of playing it the pads started sticking and it’s not even possible to play some altissimo. Is it worth changing the pads with high quality ones?
Thanks,looking to how to repair saxophones
matt, I'm thinking on doing my Selmer Bundy alto sax ,I never did this type of thing before, even though my alto is quite old ( I really cannot remember when I bought it )I've look all over the internet to see when it was made but had know luck maybe you know where I can check that pleselet me know ,but another question I have since I've never done this rep adding is there any suggestion on as maybe disassembly and reassemble, thanks and have a nice day
Love your attention to the multitude of details, great presentation. What's your take on self-leveling pads, aka the music medic or others?
It has been tried several times in the past, at least as early as the 1920s by Martin. Then in the 70s by Bundy. Then in the 2000s by Toptones. It's not that gimbal pads don't work, it's just that they don't usually feel very good and they don't typically seal as well as a normal pad that has been well-seated. Nonetheless, every couple decades an audience has been temporarily found for them.
@@StohrerMusic belated . . . Thanks Matt!
Which pads would you recommend for the Buescher True Tone Alto Sax (Serial # 200,000-250,000)? Thanks.
Matt, a couple of questions: I just bought a cheap Chinese eBay horn, as a backup to my Ref. 54. It needed some new pads right off the bat. I used hot glue, instead of the usual pad glue. Do you have any experience with hot glue? Also, as far as pad treatment, I usually use a product similar to Amour All, which is Meguiar's Tech Protect. Seems to do the job. Any advice on what a good treatment might be?
BTW, I had a complete overhaul by a well known repairer in Boston, way back in the early 70's. He coated the pads with some sort of shellac. I had a lot of leaks after that overhaul. Might have been he experimented on my horn with the new treatment.
Anyway, thanks for making these great videos to help us DIY"ers!
+Danny Troy it's a shame you ended up with a bad repair. I remember when I got my Bundy II that one of the pads kept falling off up in the upper left side of the shaft, so I ended up buying one of those really cheap glue sticks at the dollar store. You know, the ones that say they're glue, but they're about as sticky as butter to be fair. Somehow gluing it back in worked, and the pad didn't fall out until I got someone to repair to poor old thing a few months later. XD
+Ne Tc I paid a visit to my repairman and ran the hot glue question by him. Turns out he highly recommends it. He said it holds up better to temperature extremes also. He also said the Amour All type stuff is OK for the pads. I especially like to use it to cure a sticky pad.
Danny Troy Hot glue? I might give that a go! I'm working on a cheap sax I picked up right now which I'm experimenting on, so I've just ordered some generic branded pads to test. I've just been having a lot of trouble decided on what I want to put it together with. It seems with what I've heard from a few people hot glue might be a good place to start. :)
Well, it no longer backs up my Ref. 54. I sold the Ref. 54, and got a made in Taiwan Viking M60. This is supposed to be modeled after the Selmer SBA, and it plays great. Total cost was about 2700.00. Hopefully I'll never need to use the Chinese horn, but with the type gigs I do (nursing homes and senior parties) it will more than suffice.
Yes, it sounds more like a Selmer than my Selmer did!
Hi Matt. Thanks for the video. I loved it!
What kind of felt is used to make pads? Do you know who makes it or what brands exist of this type of felts?
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I don't see the white kangaroo pads here. Those are interesting. Certainly have much less issue with sticking. They seal quite well but do feel a little different than the tan pads. You may do well to give them a second look and try them out. I initially didn't like them at first but they grew on me.
I assume that the pads I've had before were thinner and as and much more sensitive to keys getting tweaked but play much better when they are installed and seated properly. They last much longer in my experience but perhaps that is the quality of the work as well. As far as resonators, I am sold on the big brass as opposed to no resonators or the factory metal/plastic resonators. People said for me not to go that route because they would bring out the intonation issues but I found that they bring out your sound much clearer and if you play with intonation issues then those will be more pronounced as well.
there is a white kangaroo skin pad right in the middle. I also talk about them in the video.
8-) I thought that was a de-skinned pad. In your opinion which of the kangaroo skin colors do you like best? Dark or light? What is the difference between the two.
Thanks for the video by the way, I like to hear everyone's opinions on pads and parts btw. I'm glad that you cared to share.
I personally do not like kangaroo skin as it is very porous, and I like my pad skins to be airtight.
Hey Matt, what's your experience with Yamaha oem pads? Are they good enough compared to pisoni?
on my bartone saxophone the 3lowest tone pads or tone hole is leaking afther som playing im strighting the key cup so its seals perfect and after som plaing and the leak is back in some of the 3lowest tone holes onley is that singn on a loos or bad pad sorrey for my inglish im norwegian
Can you tell me the correctly size of pads for Selmer Super Balanced Action alto sax serial number 52xxx, please
I don't really know a lot about this stuff, but if people treat their pads why don't they just sell pre-treated (or even synthetic) pads? Wouldn't that make it cheaper in the end?
same reason we don't all drive the same car. personal preference and different aims.
the padding process is an extremely complex one with lots of variables and decisions to be made. everyone will make those decisions differently. therefore, the best pad for the job depends heavily on the style of work and comfort level of the person doing the pad job. I hoped I had made that clear in the video.
Hello Matt!
I'm from Brasil.
I do not have subtitles in Portuguese, I could not understand, sorry.
What brand and model of pads do you use? Are Prestini good as Pisoni? What model of Pisoni do you use? What about the MusicMedic pads?
thank you!!!
Which pads would you recomend for a 1926 Buescher Truetone alto? Mine still has the original pads, and they don't seal at all for obvious reasons.
MagicPieces909 I have another video that explains that in-depth:
th-cam.com/video/BwG_LyKUEi0/w-d-xo.html
what type of lacquer spray would you recommend as pad treatment? i'm using the ferrees b58s and learning resonator application now. my dream is to be an excellent sax repairer :)
Hey Matt is Instrument Clinic USA a valid service to buy pads and repair equipment from? Thanks.
At recording time 2:28 you say the two pad and model brands of the pads you usually use, but it is too fast for non English speaker to understand. Can you please write them for us? thanks.
Ferree's Tools B58, a .160" thin pad made in Italy by Pisoni.
How to get new pads
these days the prices are increasing so much so now how can you choose a good pad for less money
Hello Matt! Have you use Prestini Pads??? call you tell me what you think about them??
Yea, what he said. I recently went to a repair school for a bit and they use Prestini for pretty much everything. I have notices that they are less expensive and seem to work. For now, when my shop is new I have to economize...
I used Prestini pads for several years, but, about 5/6 years ago, they changed the felt inside the pad with a grey bad quality felt, the result is the imprint is also bad; i changed pads and now i work ony with Pisoni Pro for professional use and with Pisoni standard for cheap works, but i operate in Italy and is quite handy for me buy pads from Pisoni. Also Chanu product a good quality of pads in my opinion!
Which thikness use leather for Saxophone pad
Great video. Could you please write which exact model of musicmedic pads you use most often and mentioned in the video? There are three non-kangaroo skin pads in store - Tan, SoftFeel and SoftFeel Thick. Btw: pads will be replaced for The Martin bari. Thank you! :)
I do not use MusicMedic pads.
@@StohrerMusic 2:25 "These happen to be the two pads I use most often: the Ferree's B58...and in certain circumstances I use the MusicMedic thin firm pad." Not trying to be snarky, just trying to help the OP.
Using kangaroo skin pads is just skipping over the problem and a step back instead of a leap forward.
Matt, what is your opinion of the ten dollar sets of pads from Amazon.?
Mickey Vidakovich in my experience, too general. Many are too large or too small.
Are there any non-animal pads as as good as animal ones?
nope. skin is really great at doing what skin has evolved to do over millions of years: be supple, strong, light, resilient, soft, and impermeable.
Pro 110is too fancy
👍🏼
So, rue the 'roo, eh?
They aren't my personal favorite, but there are definitely folks who love them and use them all the time. Different strokes.
***** I'd love to see/hear more in depth thoughts from you about the various treatments to keep pads from sticking. What to use, how to apply, what to beware of, etc.... G# is the common culprit for many horns but on my VI it's the Bis key. Many repair techs say to use a light application of lighter fluid. Seems like that would be hard on the leather. I'm also suspicious of the various "dusting powders" (including Selmer's own brand). I don't like the idea of some powdery substance poofing around the horn. Besides, how long could it last? Seems like it would require frequent applications to keep working.
Eddy Haskel Not all 'roos are equal. The better ones are treated with spray-on vinyl on the backside of the leather to mitigate dynamic leakage, but Matt's test suggests that that's an incomplete solution.
Lighter fluid will, over the long run, deplete the natural oil in the leather, hardening it and making it more likely to absorb contaminants that cause sticking. If you clean with lighter fluid, it is a good idea to lightly oil the pad with lemon oil occasionally. It is also a common mistake to clean the pads without cleaning the tonehole rims first. If cleaning the rim takes care of the sticking problem, why harsh your pads with lighter fluid?
I like teflon powder and it is useful for slicking cork and felt, in addition to treating pads. It is insufficient (and extremely messy) to just brush the stuff on the pads, especially if there is any indentation at the pad seat. It needs to be rubbed in so that it is held in the pores of the leather, without excess powder on the surface that can impair the integrity of the seal. Also, be sure you're not contaminating the pad seat with any gunk on your fingertips when rubbing in the powder.
Do they make vegan pads. Surely artificial leather is available. Leather pads eventually discolour and go hard. Very good video.
you have to be joking
Pisoni makes goretex pads, so you don't have any leather. Unfortunately the internal felt is made of wool, so basically it is not completely vegan but at least it is much butter under a vegan point of view
The number of variables and things that can go Murphy's Law wrong with a saxophone, is enough to make you switch over to a trombone. As an instrument choice, the saxophone is just a high-maintenance, entitled unpredictable piñata of unexpected last-minute inconveniences little bitch.