Correcting 3 Mistakes On A 240V Outlet Install
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ม.ค. 2023
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Have learned a thing or 2 over the 5 years on TH-cam after publishing 300+ videos and wanted to share the lessons learned on DIY electrical projects. Most of this information and lesson learned has come from the viewers and all the great comments over the years.
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IMO, the biggest thing here is not that you got it perfect in the first place. No, this time you went back and showed us your earlier mistakes, and then you corrected them. You're learning from your audience and your own personal experience, and making sure that we get to share in that learning experience.
That's what I really appreciate about this channel.
@@Kevin-mp5of did he say who installed it?
But he didn't fix a code violation of the conduit not supported within 18" of the junction box
@@gary1143 EMT is required to be supported within 36", not 18".
The only mistake was not grounding the box. The others were just preference.
@@jajajajajajajajaja867 agreed. I am not sure why is everyone hung up on plug/unplug aspect. It is a dryer plug and likely not to be unplugged unless there is service needed or "maybe" to clean the vent in which case the cord is usually long enough to allow access to the back of the dryer. i do applaud the shorter version of this video where this guy does not force us through a 40 minute session of him enjoying the sound of his own voice like so many others.
Another note is to make sure that the box is secured well to the wall if you plan on plugging and unplugging with any frequency. Those receptacles have a fair bit of grip strength, so normal drywall anchors may pull out of the wall. 3” Screws into a stud or tapcons for concrete are best
I agree... I rip the "high-end" anchors out all the time, and thus do not use them in anything that I do. I think it is worth it to remove drywall and add a brace if there isn't already one. In that case I wouldn't use 3", but you catch my drift.
The box looked like it was moving a bit during install.
Yeah to house a $75 receptacle, you may as well make sure the box is as good as it can be lol
yup or add a 3/4" plywood piece between the doors then screw to ti. Heck maybe a combo 240 & 120 gfi outlet box while he's at it. Then he has got ground fault to a vac or anything outside. Just dont think he has room in that conduit.
Great point.
These are the videos that do the most for me. Mistakes recognized and humble presentation is great and it is these types of post that always generate the most useful comments and tips from the crazy amount of knowledge and experience given by all the people generous enough to post in the comments. thanks to all. I use mine for a welder only occasionally but if I had an EV I would swap out for a Hubbell
Thanks for the feedback 👍
Yeah, except all these youtube “experts” are rookies, often times at your expense. This guys been around awhile and does have some good tips and videos, but this was a total disaster. Unnecessary use of a Wago. And that original install with mud ring and outlet cover. Good lord.
You're going to want to double-check that ground screw you put inside the box, it looked like it was loose and the wire was moving around and you also might want to secure the actual box to the wall a lot better. If you plan on pluging stuff in and out of that outlet all the time you're going to rip that box off the wall the way it was moving around.
yah same here i saw it loose when he put it back together forgotten about it
@@kittyztigerz To be fair, there was a cut there where he may have tightened it.
He can fix the ground when he goes back to replace the folded electrical box with a drawn electrical box. Those sharp corners are only appropriate for in-wall installation. ;)
@@emmettturner9452 yup, and check that the receptacle is not crushed in side at the rear. Also that box seems to flex on the drywall.
@@emmettturner9452
Good luck finding a deep drawn foursquare box.
Folded boxes are perfectly acceptable in any dry location.
This channel has taught me a Lot and made me much more comfortable with DIY electrical. I like the way he explains things that’s why I subscribed here versus the many other electrical channels out there. Keep up the nice detailed work!
Now I got something to buy with my gift card, a screw driver torque tool! I also learned allot from the state inspectors when I wired all my new houses. I have always appreciated how patient they were with me as a homeowner and wanting to learn.
Awesome follow-up! Despite how many people "talk the talk" on here and try to badmouth you, I have seen a LOT of "professional" "sparky"s do 90%of their job incorrectly. Ignorance is one thing, especially if you correct it by learning and betterment of yourself. But laziness and stupidity are in no way acceptable.
Thanks again for your time sir!
Thanks Jonathan, appreciate the support 👍
What size wire did he use?
@@bmailman123 6 gauge.
He seems to know Joel @ElectricProAcademy and he installed the whole thing in the first place
@@aaron74 That explains it. 🤦♂️
Also for the US viewers:
EMT shall be securely fastened in place at least every 3 m (10 ft). In addition, each EMT run between termination points shall be securely fastened within 900 mm (3 ft) of each outlet box, junction box, device box, cabinet, conduit body, or other tubing termination.
I was about to say the same thing. There should be at least a 1 hole in that EMT. My preference is exactly 1 foot from the box.
Is EMT necessary in the wall behind drywall if the outlet is flush mounted?
@@LP-bv1rj no you can run romex wire directly to the box using the proper connection and stapled securely. Keyword romex or any nonmetallic sheathed wire.
@@LP-bv1rj No.
Looks like at the 6:55 mark, the ground loosened up under the box's ground screw
Good eye
yes.. really loose at 07:20
Yep
You guys are good!!
Great to see you're taking feedback and recognising when something's sub-optimal. With regards to the original install, Id did think the over-sized faceplate looked weird, and - as others have noted - possibly some form of wall bracing might be a good idea, as the you might end up pulling the socket off the wall... As always, great content.
Yeah, some addition bracing in the wall would be helpful. Plugging and unplugging will definitely put drywall anchors to the test. I will be installing a charger in that area soon and might just take a piece of 3/4" plywood (painted white) to sure up the box and charger.
The original wall plate was a hazard in this configuration. I've cut my finger really badly on the corner of a similar installation. Those sharp edges and corners are intended to be flush against a wall.
Excellent video. I just did mine the same way because I just didn’t trust the light weight ones. Nice info on the ground wire
That original install was done by a master electrician who has his own fantastic channel. We all make errors but as others have pointed out EMT if properly installed is an acceptable ground Also you could wrap the ground wire around the box screw and then to the receptacle. Great channel Keep pushing for Klein combo or Milwaukee ecx drivers especially as torquing is becoming more of a standard and not a suggestion. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Was looking for someone to comment about just wrapping the wire around the screw. I was starting to wonder if that was against code.
No, the EGC needs to be pigtailed now. Can’t just do a loop then hit the device.
The EMT is only a ground if it goes all the way bay to the panel, which is probably not the case here.
We try to use Hubble branded materials here for the RV hookups when we have to replace them. They are higher cost but last longer but they are not forever especially in our case here. On my trailer I use the Hubble twist lock stuff and I have built up a series of adapter cables and extensions which are more reliable and actually cheaper than buying from the RV retailers.
Nice video, I do have a suggestion if you are looking for more strength for repeated plugging/unplugging here. The weak spot in this is the 2 screws that hold in the mud ring. If you use the Hubbell-Raco 696 Masonry Box you can tap in 2 more screws and have every corner held down snug. There are other boxes you can use, but I like the way the metal piece with the screws goes the length(or width) of the box instead of a little tab in the corner. Also I couldn't tell too well, but it looked as if your drywall was giving way a little when you pulled on the box, so it may be installed with drywall anchors. If you ever have an opportunity to get in and put a stringer between the studs to mount the box to it would make the whole plug rock solid. Overbuilt is better imo. Also want to say, that nothing in this video is bad advice. I am just contributing some ways to make it even stronger.
Thank you for clearly defining what is meant by “industrial grade” NEMA 14-50 receptacle, including an Amazon link, and emphasising the need to torque and re-torque.
When comparing outlets, look at the blade contacts inside the outlet. Leviton has a lot less contact area then other outlets. We use the same 50A outlet for RV's and noticed the difference when changing from a Cooper brand to Leviton and tossed the Leviton for another brand with full copper contacts.
The Hubbell receptacles are made from bakelite which will never melt whereas all the other brands are just basic plastic which have had instances of getting hot and melting during prolonged EV charging. Also notice that most of the cheaper brands have contacts that are only half the size of the slot in the receptacle. (talk about cost cutting beancounters)
Thanks for the additional feedback 👍
Munro Live has a good video discussing overheating issues.
Very interesting. Seems any 14-50R should be rated for a sustained 50A load, but who knows what UL and/or CSA loopholes may exist
To expensive would not use ever use this guy is a idiot
@@Kevin-mp5of Yeah I doubt Bakelite is made anymore; it gets brittle and over time is friable.
I really cannot stress enough, using a non contact meter is not the way to "make sure" power is off, you should ALWAYS use a volt meter to make sure.... (I'm aware that with this circuit you know it was off and what breaker it was) IBEW Local 681
I agree! Non contact meters can only tell you if a circuit is on, NEVER can tell you if it's off. Always test with a good multi meter for safety, you only get one chance on this side of the grass. Retired IBEW Local 48 40+ year member and past apprenticeship instructor.
My first electrical project was replacing a broken duplex outlet in my bedroom. I was fifteen and learned the hard way that you need to be careful about testing that the power is REALLY OFF! I've been very careful ever since.
Awesome, another reason to like this channel, you are from IL. I moved away from those winters a long time ago. And thanks, my new EV should be coming soon and this was exactly what I was looking for.
I took your advice and bought that torque screwdriver. It is a great tool, and better quality than I expected. Thanks.
"6 gauge is stubborn" is an understatement! It's tough. I'm glad I only have one box to do.
I noticed the ground lug will be at the 12 o'clock position. Depending on the configuration of the actual cord, you may have to place that at the 6 o'clock position. I know for a fact that for stove applications it's code in Canada to have it at the 3 or 9 o'clock placement as it's near the floor. That's so there is no stress on the cord pulling down from the top and also providing clearance for the cord "tail" from the floor. Just my two cents.
ground should always be on top to take the gravitational force on cords. also why ground is always round and thicker. Your canada ranges are typically on bottom and also different size/shape plugs (but also cannot point town since too low) and yes your smiley faces are, by design, upside down. they should be ground up as well. Hospitals do it to specification.. braindead home electricians don't
A licensed master electrician did this install, and here you are making some fixes. I get it that hindsight is 20/20, but what hope do we DIY'ers / consumers have to make sure we're performing work properly if even master electricians cut corners / forget things? Wouldn't an inspection from the municipal building permit department here have saved you before calling the initial install complete?
As an aside, thanks for the content. I've been learning a lot from you and Joel!
It's not just the "original installing party" that is potentially doing things wrong... there are a large percentage of professional cheaters and hacks out there. Yes inspections can help, if the inspector isn't lazy, or possibly not experienced/trained enough to catch things.
I wish I had a better answer for your concern. I think DIYers can accomplish a lot that the pros can't/ won't because they have a personal investment. Tons of tradespeople and contractors, just don't give a damn and they will tell you that. "Give me my paycheck for the 10 hrs that I half-ass worked." LOL
Just today I found that the AFCI for the master bedroom had its neutral connected to ground and the well pump's hot didn't have markings indicating the white lead was repurposed as a hot. Neither violation is a big deal but still...
Videos like these make me even happier that we have 230/400 V 3 phase service in Europe.
I tried to install an outlet like this for my welder. My home depot had one outlet that fit in a regular box that had no cover plates in stock, a second outlet that only fit in a second kind of box that they were out of, and surface mount outlets. It was easy to decide which one to get.
Bryant 9450FR (also made by Hubbell) is less than half the price for the IDENTICAL outlet. 👍😎✊
Wow, only $15 from a reputable giant online store. The casing even says Hubbell.
Nope, the Hubble was important and necessary to install but there was no grounding issue. You had a grounded outlet.
Good video and I am glad you made it. I am also happy that you got an industrial grade outlet, the cheap oven ones will not do and can burn, they are not built for CONTINUOUS juice, the connectors inside are half the area and not copper. Yet, the ground pigtail, is good you showed and brought it to attention, nonetheless, the copper bar on the side (at 6:18) of the outlet as well as the bronze chip means that is a grounded outlet. Hence, when you connect the ground bare wire to the outlet it link, nexus, ties it into the plate which will then ground the metal box and conduit when you screw the plate to the metal box. In fact, it was more secured before because the ground wire was not interrupted and the WAGO lever nut is always another risk that it can come lose in addition to another connection which is not as tight. I guess what is done is done now since you cut and shortened the bare wire.
So, no need, but is good to do for those with cheap outlets which are not the "grounded" type. I love that you mentioned to wiggle and retight the stranded wires, it is a fatal mortal sin not to, especially because they WILL loosen up and will arc or worse, fire up. Is always necessary to revisit and wiggle and torque again. Is a garage and you don't want 50 amps catching fire underneath the bedrrom while the family sleeps.
That is what I thought. Pigtail not necessary because outlet ground has the metal clip that mounts to the steel of the outlet, thereby grounding metal box
I would also verify the direction of the right angle of the plug to be used the most. Having the cord run upwards and then loop to go down. just the weight of the power cord is going to stress the cord, the plug and the box mounting. Good video. Great info. Thanks
Because there is a metallic cover being used the ground must be up. So code will not allow you to invert the outlet with the ground down.
Very informative, I need one of these.
I've always used RV electrical outlet boxes when putting 240 volt service in places like shops and garages. The locking cover is just extra safety insurance for a number of reasons.
I was going to make that suggestion. I especially recommend the ones that have a disconnect means combined. It's best and safest practice to throw the disconnect (turn off the power) before plugging or unplugging cord connected devices greater than 20amp rated. Another option I recommend is using a 100amp disconnect and mount the receptacle in the bottom. An RV park disconnect with the receptacle already installed is the easier (and usually cheaper) option. The only thing is those usually aren't in stock locally. Get online and order them ahead of time.
The issue with RV boxes is that the plate is made for the cheaper $15 outlets. They are only 2" across. The Hubbell he used and other commercial grade outlets are all 2.5" across. I have yet to find an outdoor box which will take the larger, commercial grade outlets.
@@4x2-ev Well, I have a drill press and also use the good outlets. ;-)
Conduit (RMC, IMC or EMT) is an NEC-accepted ground path. No additional grounding wire is needed. The metal box does not need to be grounded separately. However, that presumes that the origin of the conduit itself is properly grounded, which may not be the case where wiring spawns from a hybrid of different types. My house is all conduit and all my receptacles test as correctly grounded.
Commercial grade electrical components are expensive, some exceptionally expensive, but will save misery in the long run. Commercial grade standard receptacles are only a dollar or so more, and my regret as a DIYer is not using them. Some cheap ones that get frequent use have now become sticky and will have to be replaced. It is different where they are only used to plug in a lamp that will not change for 10 years.
When using a surface mount cover (garvin) the device needs to be grounded to the box. It is to make sure the device has a ground path when opened.
@@c0wb0ybil91 Wrong. You don't understand. What he is saying is the conduit is grounded to the panel and so is the the component with the ground wire It is literally the exact same thing as grounding to the box but its done at the panel.
Many jurisdictions no longer allow conduit ground paths, especially in residential where the risk of Romex and other methods can interrupt the system. Never assume that just because the Code allows something that it is okay. Check with your authority having jurisdiction (AHJ aka inspector) to verify the demands of your area. If you use a metal box, you should ground the box. It is simply good practice.
@@MrWizards1974 In this particular instance there is *not* a conduit bond to the panel. The conduit in this instance is just sleeving for NM cable that runs inside the conduit. The conduit terminates above the panel and the NM runs behind the wall from above and has a box connector at the panel. Therefore the only bonding of the conduit is made at the far-end receptacle box.
When safety is involved it is better to "wear both belt and suspenders."
Thank you for the videos. You are right about the plug. The electrician used a normal NEMA outlet from Home Depot, after 4 years of heavy use of daily charging our EV, a Tesla, we got a warning from the car that the power outlet was getting too hot and it automatically lowered it's charging Amps. I am installing this Heavy duty plug ASAP. Thank you for the video.
The smartest way to install an EV charger, and the only way I will install them, is direct wire. There is no reason to have a plug-in charger unless it's intended to be portable, which is almost none. Your AC system, water heater, hot tub, built-in range, etc. are not allowed to be plugged in and neither should an EV charger.The EV charger manufacturers are designing many of their chargers to get around the NEC rule requiring permanently installed EV chargers to be hardwired. If we continue to see issues with plug-in chargers, I would assume that the NEC committees will tighten the rules at some point
Great video but..... I noticed that the wall was flexing just with you tightening the cover plate. With the use you described, I think I would have placed a board between the studs to mount the outlet on. In time, you may pull that outlet right off the wall as it looked like dry wall. The use of a good plug and outlet will be tight and hard to pull out.
One correction. You stated to install the conductors with no copper exposed. I believe code now requires a small bit of copper should be exposed to insure you are not possibly clamping on insulation A few mils of wire exposed will not create a short hazard and clamping partially on insulation creates arc/hot spot possibilities.
Typically the best way to ensure they are tightened properly is to 1) tighten the lug. 2) move the line around a bit. 3) loosen the lug again and reseat it 4) tighten the lug again 5) check to ensure they do not move. 6) torque them to spec checking twice. Stranded cable tends to compress in odd configurations so engaging and then releasing the terminal almost always insures the terminal connection has compressed as much of the contact area on strands as possible.
If that metal conduit is grounded that should meet any code requirements for grounding the box. Also those "combo" screws on the original outlet will also accept a robertson drive which will allow you to put as much torque as needed.
Not true. The conduit is not required to have the grounded conductor tied to it due to the fact that emt and the fittings are considered a complete bonded path, but the ground conductor in the cable, bare or insulated should be tied to every device that has a ground terminal, and every metal junction box it passes through. If a ground fault condition occurs on a 50Amp ckt like we have here, or any other smaller ckt for that matter, you want the 10 awg wire that travels back to the panel's ground bus bar carrying the fault current, as opposed to the EMT. The code allows you to avoid bonding the EMT because if a fault occurs in contact with a section of pipe or a fitting, there should be a grounded junction box, or panel, that is tied directly to the grounded conductor within a short enough distance to return the fault current back to the source, and allow the breaker to trip. That's the intent of the code. The intent is not for you to rely on, or assume your conduit and fittings are sufficient to carry fault current on their own back to the source. I think you're misinterpreting what the code is saying. If a junction box has a splice, or connections/device, then it should be grounded. Bonded is not the same thing. EMT is considered bonded to jboxes and panels that it connects to. That has nothing to do with grounding panels and jboxes.
@@paaao Sorry, but you are mistaken. The EMT can be utilized as the EGC in accordance with NFPA 70 Section 250.118, and there is no requirement to bring an additional ground conductor to the box. If the receptacle does not have listing and associated markings to allow grounding through its yokes, then a grounding pigtail does need to be brought between at least the receptacle and the box. It has been proven that all sizes of EMT conduit are capable of handling the fault currents of the largest services, feeders, or branch circuits that they can contain.
The biggest exception is in NFPA 70 section 440.9 which requires a separate grounding conductor in rooftop EMT serving HVAC equipment. When installed correctly, EMT can provide an excellent EGC path, however the HVAC trades tend not to be the best electricians, so the code has had to compensate for them. Its unfortunate, but here we are.
As a specifying engineer, I often require a separate ECG to be pulled into EMT when I can justify the cost. (I almost always can). Sometimes there are box fill, conduit fill, labor hours, and situational conditions that making eliminating the ECG the correct option. In my experience DIYers tend to go above and beyond when it comes to supporting cables and conduit. They are working on their own project and they tend to aim for aesthetics and in general just "overengineer" certain aspects. Nothing wrong with going above the code, after all the code is the bare minimum needed to be legal. The biggest issue is the quality of components DIYers tend to have access to. Better quality parts from Appleton/Oz-Gedney, Cooper/Eaton, ABB/T&B, etc. available from the supply houses can really make a difference in an installation compared to the economy brands typically available at the box stores where DIYers shop.
And of course, there may be local amendments to codes that may require an EGC in EMT. Your company might have a local policy to always install one. In general, I would consider it a good idea, but it is usually not legally required.
Yeah, he's got a couple of videos going into the different screwdrivers that will work in those fasteners. The "combination" fasteners will take a robertson/square drive for sure, but the cheaper the fastener, the more likely you cam out or break the bit, even a square drive. Cheap galvanized screws have to account for the changing dimensions of fastener before and after electroplating, so it's pretty common for a cheap-ass manufacturer to go one bit size up and then rate the bit size one lower (so square #2 fastener HOPEFULLY galvanized to a #1 square). If an outfit is cheap enough to do that then they are going to have little to no QC to see how close they are. The beauty of combo/ECX bits is you can use that smaller #1 size when the #2 is too tight, and you can be sure of AT LEAST one of the slotted/philips/robertson carve-outs being close enough to avoid stripping. But for every other application under the sun? Hell yes to the Robertson!
@Greg Zenger Guess you're right. I was always taught that it's a no no, because inspectors often fail you unless you can prove the emt path is actually continuous and will never be interrupted or modified, and that the ckt within will never be used to feed any motor driven appliances. Which can be tough to do in a commercial environment. In residential, sure.
@Greg Zenger EMT is permissible as a grounding conductor. But the problem the AHJ's locally point out, set screws don't always stay secure, which breaks the integrity of the continuity. Hidden couplers make it difficult to troubleshoot continuity checks. I'm with you, pull a ground conductor. All the time. The poor quality of EMT connectors & couplings in my mind make necessary.
I’d like to mention for best practices. When reconnecting
Used wires UL product steps requires to cut off the end of the previous deformed (used)bent wires and
Re-terminate properly (remove proper length of insulation making sure wire is well seated in mechanical connector, torque to products specification) unfortunately that was not done. Great public information though, thank you.
And that is why certified electricians are allowed to make terminations. You know your stuff!
Suggestion. Since you do not have the new cover plate on your Amazon page. Perhaps give a make and model or a link to another site with that part. It may be helpful to some here.
Riser fill, clocking, mechanic attachment, ground bounding -- lots to learn.
How do you feel about square crimping ferrules on the stranded wires? They are not required but I feel they help make a more secure connection with full contact to the screw terminals.
From a practical point of view ( semi-trained in electrical work ) since you originally had some slack in the bare gnd wire, what is wrong with making a small hairpin turn to go around one of the metal box GND screws , fasten it to the GND lug of the box and then attach the tail of the bare GND wire to the outlet ? I would think that an un-cut conductor is better than a WAGO splice with less surface contact.. Once connected, then push the wires and outlet back into the metal box with the upgraded face-plate.
Excellent tip! A number of others have suggested the same.
By pig tailing you have a ground for the device and the box. If one of the two grounds fails, the other may still function, providing an added layer of safety. That's the usual logic I see anyways, though TBH it probably makes very little difference.
I'm not saying you made a mistake but when you cut the ground wire short to make your pigtail you may have created another violation. The code has requirements for free conductor length. It looked short. No mention of it was made and for future videos I think when giving advice to the diy crowd the little things matter.
OMG I swear TH-cam commenters are the worst with any electrical work. You could have the most experience expert electrician in the world on here and SOMEONE would nitpick something wrong with it. SMH
No longer true. NFPA 70, 300.14 "Length of Free Conductors at Outlets, Junctions, and Switch Points" was clarified in 2023 with "The 6-inch free conductor shall be permitted to be spliced or unspliced." to allow that.
@@antilogism 300.14 has been exactly the same for multiple versions on the code. The point I was making was that the ground wire looks like it is short, less than 6 inches. As an electrician I was just stating an observation that I have seen knocked down by inspectors. It may well be 6 inches long but it appears to be short. I am not knocking the content or the work but pointing out a simple observation that should be taken into account.
@@michaelw123 Good point. I misunderstood your comment. I have a tendency to focus on connections and splices.
Great video. Thank you!
A few notes: clips holding the e.m.t. are required, the outlet has to be installed with ground terminal left or right BUT NOT above or below as the cable feeding in the outlet will tend to break on itself in the long term if above or below (as required in the Electrical Code of Canada).
Kudos and an A- overall. I am very familiar with Wago I sold it during my part time career in electrical for about 5 of my 37 years in the trade and used in in my custom panel designs as we were a fabricator and sold panel build parts to others. I do favor the larger Scotch 3M screw on connectors (a type of wire nut on steroids) for grounds. A ground needs to be able to achieve 5 ohms or better resistance however the Wago is a spring tension contact over a very small surface area of the ground conductor. Code states the ground conductor and obviously by extrapolation the connection must withstand the maximum available short circuit current impressed upon it in a short to ground (primarily) or a phase to phase fault (secondarily).
Your Edison system configuration there at your home with a single phase HV 2 Bushing and LV 120/240 Transformer out in the yard or on the pole can typically deliver a max of about 6500 amps surge current when shorted before any one of several protective devices operate. I'd be interested to see if the Wago device is listed and labeled for an intended purpose of splicing ground conductors. A substantial ground even on a 50 amp outlet is important.
(But I agree a wire nut or crimp is preferable, particularly for a high-amp connection like this.)
The wagos are a cam lock when fully locked. Pretty sure.
Well stated sir! Thanks for the input!
If the conduit runs all the way back to a nonconcentric KO in your panel or using a bonding bushing EMTs perfectly acceptable as using your GEC, but I would’ve put a green screw in the box and grounded it straight to the device to give it a little bit more of a path than just the yolk and screws holding into the box. Also, I would use compression couplings and fittings, instead of set screw if I was to use EMT as the GEC
Regarding your comments about shorting the ground wire and pigtail.
Here in the UK code calls for adding green/yellow sleeve to the ground.
It only costs pennies and most stores sell.
Great explanations. Thank you.
When grounding a metal box I prefer to cut the ground longer, then wrap the ground around the grounding screw and tightening it down then finally to the device. To avoid slices where ever possible. Because slices "could" become loose. Where non splices cannot. Think about it on your next metal work box install.- from a commercial electrician
Yeah, agreed, he could have made a U-turn around that green screw straight into the device. Omit the error gap of the splicing device, and save money not using one in the first place.
Best way to do it right there.
@@aaron74 I was thinking the same thing as I do my best to avoid extra junctions. It also lowers the device count in the box that in some cases means that you need to move up to a larger box.
At first I didn't get exactly what you were describing, then I read it again carefully and understood that it was the "ground wire coming into the box" that you were referring to, cutting it longer and wrapping it around the ground screw and then connecting the end directly to the receptacle. That's perfect. A real no-brainer. Thanks for the tip! One I'll always remember! Tip o' the hat to ya!
definitely not code
Love the great hints that you covered. Thank you for sharing
Nice Video, I have a 220 that I've been needing to install.
Thanks for another great video. BTW, that torque driver in your store maxes out at 70 in-lbs.
Romex in the conduit (you can see the sheathing) is a no-go in many jurisdictions
Could be true. I don't think it's strictly forbidden in the NEC, but I know it changes the fill calculation, or maybe it changes to only having the one cable. I looked it up a long time ago but can't remember anymore. As long as the breaker is sized for 60c conductors. Looks like 6ga, so he's good with a 50A breaker. If 8ga, then only 40A.
Normally I would never do this, but the extra protection of EMT/FMC in a garage isn't a bad idea. Not sure why he didn't just use THHN though, unless he wasn't able to run EMT all the way back to the panel.
In that case I would have ran the NM cable to a disconnect at the garage penetration, then ran EMT+THHN to the receptacle.
@@andrewt9204I'm in a similar situation running a circuit to a garage wall opposite my panel. Romex from the panel up the wall, exposed in the attic across the ceiling, then down through a hole in the ceiling to the receptacle. I want to put the Romex in 3/4 EMT for tidiness and protection, so I considered transitioning to THNN exiting the attic, but didn't do it because I like to avoid unnecessary junctions. Increased resistance and more chances for things to go wrong. I'm not an electrician, though.
my thoughts
1. you need to better secure the box to the wall - it flexed a-lot
2. undo and re tension the terminals - if you had movement on the terminal bolts when you torqued them its ok, but if you did not this could mean that they are over torqued
3. check your ground strap screw it looked loose - this would make a bad connection
4. 4 screws are needed in that face cover - 2 screws might not be strong enuf that is why there are 4 holes, it is always better to err. on the side of caution with hi voltage/amperage 2 phase
in regards to #4, pray tell how would you add another two screws when there is only two tabs for screws? I do this stuff for a living and this is the only way to install RS covers, because there is only two tabs on the box. Now 4 11 boxes are another story, but even then I think we still use two screws unless we go out and by 6x32 screws.
Two other ways to ensure a better terminal connection for multi-strand wire is to either tin the wire or crimp an electrical ferrule on the wire prior to insertion into the terminal. Either method will prevent the wire from spreading resulting in less actual clamping force on the terminal.
Nice job! I am not a professional electrician but do my share of electrical work. What I would do differently would be to not use a push connector for joining the ground wire. I would use a wire nut. I would have installed the metal enclosure box 36" to 48" from the floor or lower. My thought is I wouldn't want to have this at eye level in the event there was an issue like arcing while plugging in, etc. I don't rely on cover screws to pull in a receptacal, especially since the gage wire being used is heavy. I fold the wires inward then attach the cover. Less likely to strip the enclosure box screw threads.
Nothing wrong with using the wago connectors. They're throughly tested and rated for the application.
Sometimes change is good.
I personally prefer a single breaker box directly above the outlet, so I can disconnect before plugging and unplugging from it.
With 240 volts you don't want to have power on when plugging and unplugging the cord.
It is not required, but really good idea.
A disconnect would also work.
Is there a reason you don't use an unbroken ground? I was taught that best practice was to put an eye in the ground with 2-3 twists and bond to box with screw, leaving a tail to attach to the receptacle. Then connect wires to receptacle and secure to box. Why add 2 extra points of failure and resistance?
Very good point as noted by many other brothers (and sisters) here. T Y!
"put an eye in the ground with 2-3 twists" There's your guaranteed point of failure. Twist the copper and then smash it with a screw and then it will have to continue to flex every time the receptacle is serviced. And as an added bonus, it's going to leave your unlucky victim with a very short conductor after they have to cut off below your twists to make a new clean connection.
I've spent the last 35 years in IT, and (probably mostly because we don't want a machine room full of servers to drop because someone pulls too hard on something under the raised floor :D ) we habitually use twist-lock connectors for anything 208 and up.
Great video. My biggest pet peeve with most DYI electrical projects... using the cheapest parts people can get for a job. I will never install any receptacle or switch that is not spec grade at the minimum. They are built much better, lasting for far more cycles of operation and really only cost a bit more in most cases.
I yanked out all the devices in my basement from a previous owner, as I built my new laundry room, work shop and storage space. Everything they used was cheap garbage worthy of the trash bin only... and all 120V receptacles were back-stabbed connected (not back wired or traditional screw hook)!
Do back-stab receptacles even accept #12 wire?? Really dislike #14 gauge for anything except lighting- only circuits
@@wallacegrommet9343 Unsure. I only used 5-20R receptacles and 12-2 (20A circuits) for my builds. I too only use 5-15R and 14-2 (15A) for lighting.
my electrician always tells me that those non contact voltage checkers will kill you. double check with a volt meter as the non contact voltage checkers start at about 70 volts. even though they can say it is safe, you could get hit with 70 volts
Some people call them Death Sticks for a reason. One of mine was recalled (Klein)
Also if you have a granger store near you the Bryant brand which is made by Hubble is the same for $45
From Granger: BRYANT Receptacle: Industrial, Single, Flush Mount, 50 A, 125/250V AC, NEMA 14-50R, Black
Item 49YY93
Mfr. Model 9450FR
$45.88 in stock
You should talk about the NEMA 6-50 as an alternative to the 14-50 for electrical car charging.
Nice video. Thank you!
EMT conduit can be used as a grounding conductor, per 250.118(4), as long as it extends all the way to the main panel or if used with NM cable (romex), there is junction box that is grounded with NM to the main panel. One can check continuity from the box and the main panel with the multi-meter. 250.118(4) states that electrical metallic tubing (EMT) are permitted as an Equipment Grounding Conductor.
The only time the box is not grounded is when you remove the outlet. There is a metal strip that runs from the ground screw to the metal surrounding the outlet. When you screw the outlet to the metal box you then have a ground path. I did 90% of electrical work with pipe and wire, we never pulled a ground wire as the conduit was the ground path.
agreed and his one major mistake is useing that cheap rabbit connector instead of useing a proper wire nut to connect multiple wires for a firm hold and won't burn out over time as easy.
When you run the conduit complete to the panel, it is bonded to the panel and therefore grounded. In this case, the conduit is incomplete and does not go to the panel and is being used solely as physical protection. Therefore, the ground wire is required to be bonded to a ground screw in the box to maintain a grounding bond to the conduit. Also, even if it was a complete conduit run you cannot rely on the receptacle screwed to a metal cover as your grounding path unless the receptacle is riveted to the cover, so a pigtail directly to the receptacle is required. The ground wire in this installation must hit the ground screw on the box and the ground screw on the receptacle.
@pld8993 Nice catch man. I missed that part and prolly the original installer did as well!
The pipe SHOULD be grounded, if it goes to the panel, but pulling the copper ground wire makes sure of it, especially if that conduit should come loose or be improperly placed for whatever reason. Every joint along that conduit is a potential weak point. Always rely on that direct copper connection.
@@BlackEpyon A properly installed metal conduit system will not come loose any more than a properly installed wire connection will come loose, and it does not require or need a ground wire. There are 14 acceptable grounding conductors in the NEC; 12 of them are metal conduits and only one is a wire.
This is why I use ferrules to prevent strand wire from getting loose.
@@Kevin-mp5of I'm surprised that I didn't catch that ha!
Videos like this explain the need for electricians
For EV the note about receptacle brand is gold, and is the most practical consideration beyond code.
Your ground wire under the new green screw is so loose it kept wiggling half out while you were torquing down the outlet wires!!!!!
I live in the UK, bare ground wires are always sleaved preventing contact with the line and neutral terminals.
We don’t do that in America.
@@AdamS-lh2ug This is one area where the Brits are smarter than us.
So smart. Like, why give yourself a potential problem if it isn't necessary? Way to go UK! And you still use a great weights and measurements system. But us living in "Merica" make horrible decisions all the time in the name of "being unique." 🤦♂️
@@AdamS-lh2ug Commercial installations absolutely use insulated wires for grounding in the US.
@@ivandiaz5791 you are correct, this video was related to residential. So that’s what I was talking about. I should have clarified.
Another nice DIY video. Thank you 🙏
Thank you for the video....very useful information. 😊😊
What was not stated: The Hubbel requires a larger housing and faceplate availible by them that the big box stores don’t sell. He already appeared to have it installed.
I bought the Bryant 14-50R receptacle that was listed in another video as being a good quality receptacle but a little bit cheaper than the Hubble. I didn't know about the faceplate requiring a larger Center hole then the typical big box brand receptacles. I ended up having to go to an electrical supply store to find one last minute. Get them both the same time.
@@williamporter3806 The Bryant is actually the same as the Hubble. It's their "off" brand.
@@doomsday9973 Yeah, that's what the other video mentioned as well. In GM terms, it sounded like the difference between Cadillac (Hubbell), Buick (Bryant), Chevy Citation (Legrand/Leviton) and Scion (Home Depot/Lowes off the shelf).
ALTERNATE: Bryant 14-50 (9450FR, made by Hubbell, $55), Hubbell (no neutral) 6-50 (HBL9367, $45)
Thanks for the additional information 👍
Hubble electrical parts HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THE WAY TO GO ,was drilled into me by dad since the 60s
It seems like a good idea to ground the box and I always do when I am doing something similar but is it required by code? In the old days, the conduit was allowed to serve as a ground. Is that now specifically precluded? Also grounding an outlet or switch by attaching it to a grounded metal box also seemed to be allowed. Is that grandfathered in? Is it specifically not allowed for new construction?
Why complicate the ground with cutting it short and then using a pigtail? Most installs I have seen they simply pull the wire over and loop it around the screw on the way to the plug.
If you ran EMT Conduit from the panel where the circuit breaker is located, then the box would be grounded thru the metal conduit.
The conduit likely just goes up to the ceiling.
Great presentation!
First when you control if the power is off on 240 volt circuit is to check with a proper tester and be sure the two phases are OFF , and never trust someone telling you “ yeah breaker is off go ahead “ , breaker could be faulty and only turn off one phases out of two and you don’t want to learn that the shocking way . Check the breaker connection also as they are often loose .
Why can’t you just take that ground wire and make a loop to the box and then back into the receptical ?
Also it looks like the box is not bolted to the wall you can see it moving at the end of the video, continued plugging and unplugging for a vehicle it will come loose from the wall.
Wait a 10ga ground for a 50 amp circuit? I don't know, but is that okay? I'm just asking
Yes. See NEC table 250.122. The ground conductor only carries current during a ground fault until the breaker pops.
@@joezajew OK, just checking...thanks
@@joezajew really? I always thought they had to be the same
@@AgentOffice For 14 (15A) and 20 (20A) gauge copper in typical residential applications, that is true per NEC 250.122. Above 20A it’s a different story. Note that I am only talking about the ground (green or bare) wire which typically never has current flowing unless there is a fault. The neutral wire needs to be sized accordingly with the hot wires.
You're my favorite youtuber. I learn so much every time. And your commenters are super informative too.
Completely agree, the comments section is pure gold 💯
Forgive me for asking, because I am not an electrician, nor do I do any electrical DYI anywhere near this demanding. But why do you include 3 ground wires in the box, when you are only securing 2 (to box and plug)? The 3rd appears to be "loose" on one end.
I saw the earlier video and thought to myself that the faceplate could be more cosmetically "correct", but I had no idea about the rest. I found this, and the earlier video, quite fascinating. Thank you for taking to time to document and comment on each step in the process.
One for the plug, one for box and one for the grounding rod.
Great follow up video. Stay humble. Everyone makes mistakes (except all the people in the comments bagging this follow up, apparently).
Everyone makes mistakes, some people are just tools and refuse to admit it.
...Actually, I take that back. That would be disrespectful to tools, since tools are useful and those people aren't.
@@mjc0961 ... actually, tools are dumb enough to be used incorrectly. It takes a smart person to use then right!
It's a bit misleading to call one receptacle Nema 14-50 and the other by it's brand name. Nema 14-50 is just a standard used and the Hubbell HBL9450A is still a Nema 14-50R receptacle. The Leviton looked like a good cheaper one and I would be surprised if it didn't hold up well for your use.
Agreed here.
If these plugs weren't durable, you'd for sure hear about product recalls. These companies test the products to a pretty high standard since the companies are going after pretty lucrative commercial/industrial new build contruction projects.
The companies don't want enormous lawsuits if their receptacles broke, caused a fire, or killed someone. The leviton one would have done a great job for him, and he'd have a few extra dollars in his pocket at the end of the day.
I’ve used the Leviton for appliance outlets and heavy 220 extension cords for portable tool use. In both cases they are plugged and unplugged multiple times per week and have held up years without issue.
I like to use wire ferrules for those fittings where you're essentially pressing a wire between two plates. It compresses all the strands together and basically turns the end into the equivalent of a solid core copper wire, as it won't allow those strands to separate.
of course that does mean you also need to have an appropriate ferrule crimper, but I haven't found that they are all that expensive.
On a terminal box that doesn't go elsewhere, I simply keep the ground wire long as you did, wrap it around the ground screw of the box, then terminate it on the plug. No need for a connector, which gets in the way when you try to push it all back into the box.
This is accurate advice. I made the mistake of installing a $20 outlet. It's lasted about 4 years, but recently I've been limited to charging at about half the normal rate (or less) after a bit as the charger plugging into it is sensing more heat than should be present and automatically reducing the current as a safety precaution. I'm only running 6' of 6 gauge from the service panel so it's definitely the outlet itself that is not up to the task. I've got my replacement ready to go and will be changing it out this weekend.
Definitely check the outlet your electrician is supplying. Many are not yet up to speed and will just install the cheaper, lower workload options out of ignorance. I had to change out one in a different location after the electrician installed it.
Also, a company named Bryant sources their product from Hubbell; they are the same outlet. You may find the Bryant cheaper; I got mine for $65 each at a time when Hubbells were selling for about double that due to limited supply.
That was not a code violation on the EMT unless it was not connected to a bonded panel.
As I recall, it stopped at the ceiling above the box and was fished down the drywall. Could be mixing it up with another install. But I don't think the tube went all the way.
That is correct Arick, the conduit does not run all the way back to the panel in this install.
@@EverydayHomeRepairs Which is exactly why you ground metal boxes. Period.
@@TwilightxKnight13 Yeah it's required by code!
When the 14-50 is in a metal box with metal conduit is the ground wire needed? All the houses in Chicagoland area have metal conduit in the walls and there are no separate ground wires in the conduit.
Nice video. I have a permanently mounted Tesla adapter, and every once in a while, check the adapter lugs to ensure nothing has loosened. This seems to be an issue with Tesla wall mounted charge adapters.
You never should hav cut that ground . Just wrap it around the screw the go to the device
I hate seeing standard wall plates instead of industrial covers. Good job fixing it.
Thanks!
I think the mounting plate below the receptacle plate is excessive. The receptacle plate itself mounts to the box and to the receptacle. Unnecessary boxfill.
yes, they have sharp edges too!
Great video and good advice but you still have a code violation there. When a cable like yours is pulled into a conduit the cable needs to be considered as a single conductor when it comes to conduit fill. All the information you need is in chapter 9, table 1 and 2 of the NEC. For a single conductor the max fill would be 53% of a 3/4" EMT. That 6/3 is a whole lot larger than that. Now some inspectors will get this wrong and allow it base on the individual conductor fill but I just wanted to point that out for your viewers so they don't fail an inspection.
Two things I would recommend. First mount the outlet with the ground up, or down, depending on the cord you're going to be using most often. You want the weight of the cord hanging down, instead of up.
I always use ferrules on stranded wire. You touched on wiggling the wires and retorquing them a few times. But over time and any heat cycles will loosen stranded wires. Crimping on a ferrule solves that issue. If your stranded wire gets loose it could cause arcing and cause a fire.
I was thinking the same thing about ferrules. I've also used fork terminals at the end of stranded wire in breaker panels. Stranded wire is very common in construction in Mexico.
Never bring the pipe into the center knockout in the box on such an installation. It should have been off to the side. That’s why you had to use the plate screws to draw the receptacle into the box, which is another no-no. Had the pipe been in the side ko and the wires properly formed, that receptacle would have floated into the box instead of pinching the wires.
Yeah I often see conduit entering boxes at the top from either the left or right knockout; always wondered about that.
What is going to happen with the new codes is that all receptacles located in the garage will have to be GFCI protected, including the 50 amp car charger receptacles! The electric car manufacturer it is required for the installation. Tesla chargers the GFCI is built into the unit! The GFCI breaker is well over $100.00 . So that cost for installation of a car charger circuit will definitely be greater.
And possibly we will also be installing an exhaust fan in the garage because of the gasses given off from charging these dumb electric cars.
EV batteries are sealed and don't out-gas. Also, Tesla recommends NOT installing an additional GFIC because their charge has one built in. You may need to show that to your inspector and get the nod if you are on new code. He may also require the charger be hardwired instead of cord / plug.
great video !!!
Bryant is a subbrand of Hubbell and they have a NEMA 14-50R (also part number 7650) that's essentially the same exact outlet but branded differently and much cheaper.
The Bryant is also made of bakelite just like the Hubble, definitely a good alternative. Both can handle the duty cycle of an EV charger.