EV Charging Disaster
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
- In this video, Chris corrects an issue with his EV charging outlet based on feedback on his NEMA 14-50 installation video. This situation is a common cause of house fires.
➤➤Torque screwdriver 👉🏻 handydad.tv/3jgw
➤➤Emporia EV Charger 👉🏻 handydad.tv/kuok
🎥 EV Chargers buyer's guide 👉🏻 • Best EV Home Chargers ...
➤➤Hubbell 6-50 receptacle (HBL9367) 👉🏻 handydad.tv/ycy3
🎥 NEMA 6-50 installation 👉🏻 • Hubbell NEMA 6-50 Outl...
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➤➤Bryant 14-50 receptacle (9450FR) 👉🏻 handydad.tv/b9450fr
🎥 NEMA 14-50 installation 👉🏻 • Hubbell NEMA 14-50 Out...
🎥 NEMA 14-50 buyer's guide 👉🏻 • NEMA 14-50 Buying Guid...
🎥 Melting wirenut video - • Loose wires cause fires.
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This was all new to me - extremely helpful. I don’t do my own electrical work, but I like to watch to learn and will make certain the connectors are torqued going forward.
Good plan 👍🏻
Great video and great of you to admit mistakes for the benefit of others. My father in law is a electrical engineer and showed me how to do house hold fixes. The biggest tip he gave me was that after you’ve tightened the clamps on everything, when you’re tidying up to come back and check the torque again one more time as the tension on the copper would settle and loosen for new connections.
Thanks
The 3 most important words a dad should be able to say to his kid, “I screwed up…”
I love your videos. Preparing my garage for an EV right now. Your videos will save me a ton of money on hiring someone. I thank my dad for making me “handy” and not to be afraid of learning different skills.
The secret of my 36-year marriage: “I screwed up. I was wrong. You were right.”
Great video, I would also add that many attached garages are not required to have smoke or heat detectors in the garage. With many of us now charging very large batteries in the garage we really need to put some thought into safety systems and perhaps change code to get detectors in the garage.
Good point. I have one installed in my garage, but you’re right fire code doesn’t require it. They are only required to protect occupants. Perhaps they don’t want them in garages because homeowners would foolishly try to battle a fire.
@@handydadtv ... just remember, code is a minimum standard. You can go above and beyond. Perhaps the better suggestion for a garage is a CO detector.... because any fire will generate CO, but CO by itself generally doesn't mean fire.... but that's what people die from without knowing it.
You CAN'T use most reg. (ionizing type) detectors in a garage, the exhaust fumes ruin the sensor! Check the info on the box, rise in temp is one you can but you won't find em at your big box store. Best place to go would be an electrical supply house, see what they have for you. Retired wireman.
@@handydadtv I'm in the fire industry in Australia. Same here no requirement for fire detection In a home garage. But with electric vehicles if there is a fire in a attached garage I'd want to know about it before it traps unknowing people sleeping. Current regulations will need to change with electric vehicles coming in
@@handydadtv I always thought its not supposed to be in a garage due to the large amounts of dust, smoke, etc. that normally exists in garages. For example starting up a riding mower to cut the lawn you end up with a cloud of sooty exhaust (running rich from choke) followed by a lot of dust kicked up into the air...which would both probably trip most any smoke alarm
Great advice. I would also recommend setting the torque back to zero before putting away your torque screwdriver. That way it will stay accurate and not lose calibration.
Great advice! Thanks.
Lowest setting…set the torque device down to the lowest setting before putting it away…this will help maintain calibration. During use stay away highest and lowest setting because the torque device may not be 100% accurate there.
75 in-lb requirement means you need 80 or 100 in-lb torque device.
@Nic - great advice!
@@handydadtv your video shows how complicated it is to add the 240 V outlet compared to a 120 V outlet. The only similarity is running the wire. Now I know and I can start preparing better to run HVAC in the garage…electric heater mainly
@Nic be sure to follow your local codes which may be different from mine.
I wish more people would mention to torque the screw terminals, it's so important!
Thanks
Can that screwdriver he uses go to 75? It says in the item description 10-70
@kendroid5120 No it doesn’t go that high but I couldn’t get it to click anywhere near 70 in-lbs anyway. I went as tight as I could.
@@handydadtv go get a proper torque wrench. This isn't horseshoes or hand grenades, the video does show that when you torqued the bolts the driver clicked (minute 5:25) so either you can get to 70in-lb or you set the driver well under. Either way it's not 75in-lb and recommending your viewers just spend $31 on an ineffective tool is a disservice to your viewers. Get an "automotive" ratchet style torque wrench. It'll give you a torque range well over 75 in-lb and because it's lever action you be able to torque to 75 in-lb. Fire IS scary !
@hirokiokamoto6903 Use an automotive torque wrench and you’ll strip the screws. Of course fire is scary. But electricians never torque screws. So for novices, anything is better than nothing.
Great video and glad to see you sharing your mistakes so everyone can learn.
I had to plug and un-plug my Levitron plug many times when I was trying to repair my Juicebox 40 charger (self-inflicted as I ran over the wire by accident). I finally got it to work but i guess wound up wearing out my Levitron plug from multiple plug/unplug procedures testing my repair on the Jucebox. A week after I got the charger working again, I went into the garage and smelled rubber burning and found out that one hot terminal on the plug was melting. That's when I started looking for a better plug than the Levitron (and thanks for one of your earlier videos comparing the 14-50 plugs).
I recently switched over to the Hubbell and all is good now. What I learned from this whole experience is that I won't charge my Tesla at 40 amps unless I need to. Just to be extra safe, I charge at 24 amps most of the time and that's fast enough. It's easy to change the amperage in either the Juicebox app or the Tesla if I need a quicker charge.
I also will unplug the outlet every few months, clean it, and look for any signs of problems.
Thanks for sharing that experience with all of us!
Most people do not realize that charging an EV is considered a Continuous Load ( A Continuous Load is one that is expected to last 3 hours or longer). With a Continuous Load the Conductors (the wire in layman terms) and the Breaker must be derated to 80% of the normal rating of the Conductor and Breaker..... Not doing so is a Code Violation and extremely dangerous. . Also, you should not be using a NEMA 14-50 outlet. A NEMA 14-50 outlet is designed to supply both 120 volts and 240 volts to an application, it contains a L1, L2, Neutral and Ground. . EV Charging has no use for the 120 volts, so the appropriate Wall Outlet should be the NEMA 6-50 which contains L1, L2 & a ground. It also save a great deal on the cost of the conductors 2 conductors and a ground verses 3 conductors and a ground...
@@michaelholliday100 good stuff, not i uderstnad all that lol. can you read my comment at the top? not sure what to do
I had the same issue. The screws weren't tight enough and my son noticed a burning smell coming out of the EV charger. Fortunately, we opened up the EV charger, clipped out the burnt wires, and cleaned up the area. Thanks for posting this video. Hopefully, it will save some people from a unnecessary house fire.
Glad it was helpful
Thank you Chris. Even though I do not have my Tesla yet. This video was super informative. Keep on HandyDading!
Thanks Eric.
Thank you Chris for another very informative video. Wow! Eye opening! We had an electrical issue where half of our condo lost power. Come to find out it caused by a switch that was improperly installed which was actually arcing. Thank goodness it did not cause a fire. 😅
Scary stuff
You use Dielectric grease for those issues. It will help stop the heat build up, corrosion and constant use. As RV outlets will do the same thing. So I grease every new one I put in. As they do see out door use...I never had one fail...
I asked an electrician if I need dielectric grease, and he said not needed for copper.
@@handydadtv I can tell you it helps to stop these issues..
And I am a Licensed Electrician for 40 years. While also an Electrical Engineer.
And Copper has nothing to do with it... It's the constant plugging and unplugging. Constant high loads on the Plug and Receptacle.. As the weather conditions change. Cold being the worse on it.
Why I suggest people that use the heater all day long. Invest in over sizing the wire. This helps the wiring carry that load at 80% use all day long..
And what causes it. Is voltage drops in cold weather. So the Amps on the Circuit will rise. Ohms law. .
@@WizzRacing
Cool reply…easy to read with the spacing too
Thanks a $million$ HandyDad. I had a major house fire 10 years ago. A tragedy that no one wants to go through, if you love your home & family.
Oh wow. Sorry to hear. Hope no one was hurt. What caused it?
Good video. The driver bit you should use is called an ECX bit. Probably #2. The following holds true no matter who installed the receptacle: I would encourage anyone using any plug/receptacle that they use all their senses. Eyes-any discoloration on the plug prongs means something is wrong. Ears-listen as sometimes you can hear an arc when in use. Nose-smell around the connections as arching (produces ozone) is easy to smell even long after using it. And warm/hot wire insulation gives off a distinct odor. Touch-the plug and/or receptacle should never be hot.
Thanks for the tips!
Great video.. Changes in recent years to the NEC have included a requirement for arc-fault interrupt type of circuit breakers. They're a great addition to the code in helping to prevent house fires. They are NOT to be confused with GFIC type breakers which instead sense electrical currents not returning on the neutral wire as expected, but rather on the ground.
Another point is that many of the electrical connections in receptacles, switches, and light fixtures are 'quick click' (press in connections). They amount to being holes you press the stripped wire into that have a small metal tab usually being brass, or brass plated steel, copper plated steel and actually are a very small area of connection. Time as well as a higher current draw will break down or erode those connections creating arcing and as well know, once that begins it will only get worse. I prefer to buy receptacles, switches that have screw terminals and use them instead. They will hold up better over the decades.
Thanks for the info
Great job bringing attention to this very important problem.
Thanks so much 😊
Thanks for your videos! Had to rewire a circuit at my son's house due to old/cheap/loose connections with this circuit! Fixed it better than when house was built, which is a tract house !!, about 5 years old !!
Nice going 👍🏻
many of those development homes aren't built to code. they are built fast and cheap.
Thank you for taking the time to make your videos.
My pleasure. So happy they are helpful.
Another move might be to buy an infrared thermometer/infrared camera. Take a reading/picture of the outlet right after its been charging the EV for an hour (or more). If it starts showing elevated temperatures, you should check/replace it. Otherwise you are probably fine. It's easier to do, and so you are more likely to do it, than the other (remove plug, check for looseness, remove plate, remove outlet, check wires and retorque and reinstall) method. Just a thought.
True, but after re-torqueing.
Few people have infrared cameras.
@@handydadtv True, but infrared thermometers are pretty cheap. I've seen them for under $20
Actually I’ve used a FLIR One and quite by accident I found a bad out to my boat in the harbor. As I was panning around I saw a bright glow. I touched the harbor’s outlet box and nearly burned my fingers. The outlets was ruined and the wire insulation was melted back 3” but there was plenty more to reconnect to a new outlet. The outlet was cheap off brand and the wires could have been loose but we never checked. We just chuckled it and replaced it with a Hubble. Eaton also makes excellent outlets.
Wow great story
Hot damn dude. Just throw the main breaker when you're pulling off the cover of your breaker panel. No reason not to. You certainly understand to not touch "these plates" but you freely wave your hands and tools in front of them, just waiting for you to misjudge the distance, or your screwdriver to slip out of you hands, etc.
DONT WORK IN A LIVE PANEL!
Thanks for the advice
Come on really.....there's a million other things on the list that can make your day a bad one around the house, pulling off an electrical cover is at the bottom of the list. Lawnmowers, chainsaws, weed eaters, hammer, circular saw, sharp knife, scissors, iron, a drive to the store are all above removing an electrical cover and waving your hand in front of it. Maybe your eye hand coordination isn't that good Bubbles, the rest of us do just fine.
@@royormonde3682 I suppose you're right. It only hurts for a second. That guy a ran over today though, that's gonna hurt for a while.
@@royormonde3682 Depends on the level of fault current. If only 1kA, you will probably survive. Accidentally short circuit tens of kA and you may get your skin burnt of and covered in molten metal droplets, and blown across the room by the blast. Very unlikely in domestic installations though. Can be a problem in large blocks of apartments when you are close to the inlet to the building.
@@ericrawson2909Well that may be so but my point was there's a million and one things that can actually hurt and possibly kill you around the house, TH-cam is full of just that, waving your hand in front of an electrical panel ain't one of them. There's tons of video's on TH-cam of people doing stupid things and getting messed up, can't remember a single one where waving your hand in front of an open panel got someone hurt. To each his own, my experience in construction for over 37 years is the only thing that gets you hurt is doing something your not confident doing and being scared. It's not like electricians are scientists, half the ones I worked with were either kids left on the site to do the work or cementheads showing up from time to time to work them over and put their stamp of approval on it. After all they do allow you to work on your own house without any formal training.....confidence is all that's needed and a bit of knowledge.
Good video. I installed a 14-50 plug about 5 years back for an EVSE for my Nissan Leaf, which I no longer own. I now use that outlet (with an adapter) to power an inflatable hot tub instead. I didn't use a torque driver to get precise torque, but made sure everything was very very tight and secure.
You’ll be able to use it for your next EV as well.
Thanks for the explanation. It is always good to learn from someone’s mistake.
Glad it was helpful 👍🏻
Very cool! . An arc fault circuit interrupter may well be worth the money too. Good vid. Already fried one nema 6-50 outlet here with our S. Car was smart enough to know something was up and it just stopped drawing power.
I heard from someone else that the UMC plug has a thermostat to detect high temperatures.
@@handydadtv that would make sense. In the sun the thing slows down too
My wife's aunt lived alone for many years and eventually relied on a 2kw fan heater plugged into a UK 240v outlet. There was no EV nor wiring issue but the poor contact achieved by the appliance's plug (dirty pins ?) together with the continual 8 amp load eventually led to outlet dis-coloration and a smell of heat-damaged bakelite which I fortunately noticed. The issue is cumulative in that a poor contact gets hot which will worsen the contact resistance and increase the heat generated at the plug/socket.
Thanks for sharing!
With UK sockets, dirty pins isn’t really a thing. The contacts in the outlet wear out and eventually the contact isn’t good enough any more. Nobody is going to be able to tell at this remove whether it was the connection to the socket or the socket itself, but just like this video says, it’s going to be one of those two. (Well, outside chance it’s the contacts inside the plug not being good.)
When you have a load like that, that’s used a lot and for long times, ideally have it wired in directly by an electrician, or make sure the outlet is installed well and relatively new. And for the love of god, use the switch, don’t keep unplugging the thing.
Well there goes more security advice! Thank you so much. I will be taking mine off and checking and retorquing to spec. 🙏🏽
Good plan
Great Video, now I learned more on safety installation of NEMA
Glad it was helpful 👍🏻
Every wire that I connect I treat with an anti-oxidization grease, this helps to prevent oxidization that can result in resistive wire connections over time which overheat.
I have recently installed a new 200a service at home and treated each connecting wire with Ox-Guard.
I believe this is a local code requirement and is checked by the inspector.
Btw, I have come across some overheating horrors during many years in the electrical industry.
Unfortunately only the tip of the iceberg is published, many disastrous house fires result.
Thankyou for a good informative video.
Thanks
Not needed for copper wire. Really not even needed for the modern aluminum used in wiring today but most inspectors want to see it anyway, and it doesn't hurt anything.
@@Knuck3ls1 copper wire does oxides, when wire is stripped of insulation, the wire is quite bright, over a few months exposed to air the color of the copper will dull…oxidization.
Recently had an inspector ask for NoLox on our copper connections in a new service we did.
@@Tigerbythetoe quite right, need to keep connections oxidization free and prevent overheating from a resistive connection
Excellent points. Also, crimps can impose a significant resistance especially with the high count stranded wire types (finer strands). The crimping tool will register a proper tightness but the wire can relax (maybe migrate?) causing a loss of conduction over time. Thermal imaging is the best way to confirm satisfactory terminations and reveal flaws.
I know it's best to go with standard practices, but I wonder if soldering the strands together at connections would be a good idea
@@rp9674 Soldering and other forms of welding can make a lasting electrical connection as evident in the countless bonds on PC boards and wires to terminals in electronics. It certainly eliminates the need for such high torque clamps and crimps. There are tradeoffs though. For instance on a soldered crimp the solder wicking up into stranded wire will cause a mechanical point of failure if wire flexing occurs from vibration or articulation between the mated elements.
I’ve never seen an electrician carry a soldering iron.
@@rp9674 Not at all in case you're mounting it to a pressure terminal, like breakers.
What happens is that solder flows over time with pressure, so you actually end up with a conductor getting loose inside the terminal, aggravating the problem. It's safer to not do anything, than to add solder to join all strands.
If you mean soldering one wire to another that's a whole other topic tho, a soldered splice is fine IF it doesn't twist, just stays static.
For pressure connections a crimp terminal is the recommended as far as I know, given it keeps a mechanical pressure action on the conductors through it's usable life (once you press it, you'll still keep elastic deformations on the material, which is in simple therms spring action).
@@Kalvinjj I have seen that many times - soldered ends in a plug for a radio or something (old tube radios are notorious for this), the screws were loose enough to be unscrewed with your finger nails.
Sometimes the wire insulation was a bit miscolored as well right by the screw.
There are also many types of screw terminals, so if you look around you'll see that if you have a terminal where the screw goes directly to the wire you'd have a cheap one. The ones with a square washer is a bit better while the ones where the nut is actually the part that clamps the wire like you can see at 3:41 in the video is the best alternative. There are those that have spring loaded wire connectors instead of screw version and that works on the assumption that the spring don't lose strength over time - something that a temporary overload might cause.
There are many ways that things can go wrong in electricity. Some plastics is also a bit sketchy - like bakelite that if it has suffered small damage like a small arc from lightning or current leak over dirt on it then it can get a carbonization that start to lead current and that accelerates over time leading to a fire.
Thanks,appreciate your work
My pleasure
Can you believe I was planning on calling Tesla tomorrow to learn the proper torque setting, and here you, thank you, showed me where it’s listed in the Hubbell 14-50 (which comes tomorrow from Amazon)! I’ll sleep better tonight knowing the two torque settings! There’s also an electrician (Jefferson Electric) on TH-cam who said to torque the Hubbell to 25, and another who said 50, so it’s a Wild West out there, and printed instructions are what we should rely on. And I appreciate your following up on your previous mistake. Thank you!
FYI - I couldn't get it to click anywhere near 70 in-lb by hand so I just went as tight as I could.
Great video! One thing I would suggest is to hard wire an EV charger that will be stationary. The plug and receptacle are an additional failure point. Also, you may find from use that the GFCI breaker will trip frequently due to the built-in ground fault capabilities of most EV chargers. Are hard wired setup does not require GFCI breaker. IMO hard wired is the safest and lower cost way to install a high powered home EV charger. I have seen many melted plugs and receptacles over the years due to faulty receptacle or poorly made 14-50 plugs.
Hard wired at home and a charge cord in the car makes sense.
Yeah in my apartment garage the GFCI breaker trips every so often from my charger. Wakes me up since the breaker panel is in my room
This. A NEMA 14-50 works but is more risky than a hard wired charger.
@@dagjohansen8641 I've got a three-wire cord my dad used forty years ago for his compressor, it has a 30 amp plug. I guess we were lucky that all those years of use didnt burn our house down. (kidding)
@@ronwest7930 If you plug a stove into a 14-50 and just leave it there, that's fine. But if you are using a Mobile EV charger and repeatedly plugging it in and unplugging it, it wears down, gets dirty, loses grip, etc. And that's where it can get you in trouble. But if you leave the mobile charger plugged in permanently, it'll be fine.
A key thing about current ratings is that they come with a time at the rated current, since a current rating really is a temperature rating a rating of how much current is needed to reach the connectors maximum rated temperature in a certain time under controlled conditions. An EV charger is unlike most other appliances that have a plug on them in that they can draw the maximum rated current for hours on end. A load like this needs to be derated for safety so that you are not pushing the connectors and conductors near their maximum rated temperature every single time the charger is operated. If you allow the charger to draw X amps, since it will do so for hours on end, use connectors and conductors rated for at least 1.5 times that.
The industry best practice is 1.25 times. So a 50-amp circuit can draw a maximum of 40 amps sustained.
In reality, I charge at 32 amps on a 50-amp circuit, so I comply with your 1.5 rule. First, it’s as fast as my UMC can charge. Plus, it’s safer so I sleep better at night. 😊
Yes indeed. In the UK we have 3kw (13 amp) "immersion" heaters for domestic hot water. It's common to wire them to a 13 amp fused connection unit but these eventually fail. Not only are they running at maximum capacity in a nice warm cupboard next to the tank, they can have poor connections at the switch, at the fuse, and at the terminals.
Far better to fit a 20 amp double pole switch which has slightly fewer potential failure points and a much greater capacity. The circuit is generally supplied by a 16 amp circuit breaker.
Thanks for sharing this. If I don’t learn anything else today, that post has just made my mind bigger and smarter.
@@handydadtv Hm...I do not agree. If I use my 16 amps connector it should be able to deliver that indefinite. A good 16Amps plug/connector and wire will be safe for short periods using 20 to 25 amps and long 16 amps. I could use garden tools on 165 amps for hours too.(wood chipper)
My house is secured at 3^25 amps (230 volts, from the grid). Even when using 35 Amps it will take hours before that thing goes down. But I suppose our european (Dutch, German) safety and testing rules differ from the usa....and have built in this security.
A car does not differ in usage model from an electric heater.....
You can adjust it down to say 80% draw within the Tesla app. It’ll remember that location and always draw 80%. This is what I’m going to do.
Amazing. I used the same outlet as you. I bought the same torquing screwdriver. So glad I did.
Man, 75 inch-pounds hurts to turn! Guarantee that most people did not tighten them enough.
As to checking the outlet and breaker after installation, most electricians I have spoken to suggest a recheck after 6 months, and if it takes no additional torque to tighten them, you should be good to go.
Lastly, write the date of install somewhere on the outside of the outlet so people (you or the next owner) can check things out.
Good tip
this was very helpful. I have the hummell and tightened like you said.
👍🏻
This reminds me of a window AC unit I put in for a relative. The plug was getting warm, so I flipped the breaker and took it out. It was an old receptacle with the wires pushed in. I replaced it with the screw type, and no more issues.
Thanks for the feedback
Interesting. Over here we are moving away from the screw type to push in connectors almost exclusively
I don't trust the push in connectors on receptacles , always use the screws.
Thank you. Good information. Just a note...They make #1 and #2 ECX bits and screwdrivers that combine the Robertson square with a flat blade. They grip outlet screws better than traditional tools...
Yes! That’s what I need!!
Great video. I inspect all my high load breakers and connections every two years….and tighten up everything. It is amazing how stuff gets loose. I have a home in a coastal environment, so corrosion is also a problem. Installed ARC fault breakers everywhere possible. I was amazed at how many ARC faults I had. This meant going to individual outlets and fixtures to chase down the detected ARC fault. I was stunned the house had not burned down when I started searching for ARC faults. Much of it due IMOP to sloppy electrical work….not tightening down to spec, and sloppy wire nut install. It was a time consuming pain in the back, but worth it. Several homes on our street have burned due to arching fires. Salt air is especially conducive. You can also spot arch faults with thermal imagers….put a 1500 watt space heater on an outlet. You can see the heat build on a faulty outlet in minutes.
Thanks for the advice!
Such an awesome video! Thanks!
Glad it was helpful 👍🏻
You’d be surprised how many times professional electricians need to be reminded about torquing down even single phase breaker bolts. I’ve gotten some funny looks when forcing them to stop their work and go to the Home Depot to purchase a torque driver. Even in industrial facilities, these simple steps are skipped and you need to be firm about enforcing code. Not to mention that most of these breakers are only rated for a single wire up to a particular size. Unless it’s listed and labeled for dual wire connection, don’t do it. Thanks for sharing this video.
Thanks
I had a dryer receptacle burn up on me after I first moved into my house. I was always just tugging on the wires after tightening them down. I had an electrician tell me that what he does is tighten them down until they are nice and tight. Now back it off a little bit then tighten it down again and then you got it. That seems to have worked but obviously the torque would be best.
Thanks for the tip
Great update to your previous video, thanks.
👍🏻
Terrific video and very interesting. Thx
Glad it was helpful
Thank you Chris very informative…..also would like to inform about heat.
1. The NEC is a MINIMUM Standard for safety.
2. More mass (more copper)will remove heat from a device(switch, receptacle) or Over Current Protective Device(Breaker).
3. Heat sink: a substance or device that absorbs or dissipates especially unwanted heat (as from a process or an electronic device)
What that means, more mass connected to a device or breaker the heat is removed away from that device, or breaker, it runs cooler.
4. Proper torquing is still required of course.
Lets say the code requires a minimum of 30 Amp cable, well #10 AWG NM Cable at the 60 degree celsius column is rated at 30 Amps, which in most cases is fine to use.
But if we want better performance in the dissipation of heat from our connections, I would upsize the wire by the next higher Gauge size, now to the extent of upsizing 2 or 3 gauges higher, Im not an Electrical Engineer and am sure there are mathematical formulas for cost and price compared to performance.
Remember heat is money loss, dangerous, could be a sign that something is wrong.
I also forgot to mention make sure your device or breaker are rated for 60 degree celsius wire its marked on the device, NM cable is rated 60 degree ampacity. This is a long conversation ask your local electrician, wire and device have to match for proper column ampacity to protect the wire insulation.
Thanks for the details
I have a substantial DIY solar system with lots of integration with my existing wiring. Periodically I take my fluke temperature gun and get readings on every breaker, and gfci outlet in the house, as well as all the larger wire connections among the various breaker boxes. Right after I installed my 3rd 5.1kw battery I was doing my checks when I got an elevated temperature on the input side of the 250a marine circuit breaker I installed. I quickly discovered that I missed the final tightening of the nut. I had snugged all of the connections so I could point the lugs in the final position and just missed it. I don't know what all would have happened if I wasn't routinely checking
Wow great story! Thanks for sharing. Glad you found it.
@@handydadtv Thanks for commenting, I found a typo on the battery size, they're 5.1kw 48v battery packs, not 51kw. One little . makes a big difference.
really good video and a very good message. it is really important. However, also remember that if the screw is tightened too much, it will deform when it gets hot and thereby become loose. Therefore, it is important to tighten exactly as the manufacturer prescribes.
Good to know. Thanks.
Great video, thanks for your honesty!
Glad it was helpful 👍🏻
Valuable to know, but once my EV "charger" is installed, the thing I connect and disconnect is the J1772 connector on my car. I think in 12 years of use, I've connected it to the wall outlet five or six times (assuming twice at every house where I've installed it.)
And I always crank it as far as I'm able when installing an outlet or switch or junction.
Good point
When verifying connections are not under-tightened, a value that is 10% less is a good rule of thumb to be sure that you do not overtighten the connections.
Thanks for the tip
Excellent! Well Done!
Thanks 😊
Great video, I also check mine with an IR camera after charging for a couple of hours. Any spots that are even 1 degree warmer than the surrounding temp, show up immediately. Great for checking the molded plug too. Although even the IR cameras that fit on your phone are a little pricey. But it's useful for lots of things like finding heat leaks, bad breakers, wet spots. I even found a leak in the roof when I was just looking for heat leaks. I saw a patch in the middle of the ceiling that was a tiny bit cooler than the rest. I assumed it was just missing insulation. When I went up in the attic, the insulation was there, but damp. There was a vent stack above that was leaking a tiny bit. The rubber seal around the pipe was deteriorated and needing replacement/repair. Nice to catch it before needing drywall work or rotting roof decking.
I always wanted one of them. What brand do you have?
@@handydadtv I have a flir one that I bought 7 years ago. Still works great. I did have to get a small adapter from microUSB to USB C to have it work on my newer phone.
I'm a reefer / trailer / truck mechanic who wants to move to fixing and building cars. I've had one in my amazon cart for a while. Not a FLIR, but it does 320 x 240 for $600.
I think I want a 3d scanner first though.
My 240V plug was installed by a licensed electrician. He used a homedepot 10 dollar plug. After 2 years of usage, I heard the ZAP ZAP arcing sound. I took it apart and saw the plug melted. I redid the whole system with new wires, 50 dollar hefty plug, and a $150 GFCI 50amp breaker.
No! Really? A licensed electrician made a mistake?? Boy, they sure give me a hard time like I’m completely incompetent.
FWIW a GFCI wouldn't have helped you in that situation, you need an AFCI to cover arcing like that. However, I don't know what code is where you are, it might require a GFCI.
That’s scary. Did you always charge at 40amp?
The problem I see with those torque specs is they are right at the stripping torque for those screws. Particularly on the bigger breakers with aluminum set screws where a big wire limits the thread engagement. Bad designs in my opinion. When you strip out a $100 breaker torquing it to spec it makes you rather unhappy.
I don't have an alternative unfortunately, as they need to be tight.
Yeah I’d be pissed for sure.
The only screwdriver bit that reliably does well with the higher torque breaker terminals is the flat head, as shown in this video. Of course, not every terminal accommodates this bit.
I was surprised to see a torque screwdriver being used to achieve 75 in/lb on those receptacle terminals because that’s a lot of torque to apply with just a screwdriver. I usually switch over to my 1/4” drive torque ratchet once I have to go over 50 in/lb.
@@RB-xv4si I mean there is the ECX which should be the best of both worlds and I feel like that one would probably not strip the screw at all.
@@RB-xv4si To me the flat head is the worst alternative you can use because if you don't get it 100% right with the angle and with exactly the right bit you'd get damages to the screw head. Allen or Torx are way better than flat, Philips and Pozidriv.
@@ehsnils yeah, those are the ideal terminal styles on breakers. You don’t tend to see those until the much higher amperage ones. For the 40, 50, and 60A breakers, the slotted terminals are much deeper than your typical slotted terminal and I haven’t had problems with them.
Great advice, thanks !!!
My pleasure
What an eye opener for a none professional (DIY) or even a professional electrician. Always safety first is the best policy.
Definitely
You may want to reconsider the "double" torque idea. Best to do it once. Also, removing the cover on a "hot" panel is suspect.
Thanks
Retired from a large hospital where they insisted that we get or sue all terminals whole performing infection four times a year PM'S on energised starters & drives. Best thing we had thousand dollar FLIR IR cameras that picked up warmer to hot spots. Its not in the NEC but might be in NAPA 70 that states not to keep refreshing electrical terminals.
Torque then allow for 'cold flow' during installation and then re torque. If possible, allow a few heat cycles and re torque again. Especially noticeable on stranded conductors.
Double torque on stranded wire is very common practice. Torque once, wiggle, torque again. The strands will settle in place more after the wiggle.
The molecules of the metal will seek a new equilibrium after you tighten it down. Its called plastic flow. Wait a minute or so after the first tightening, then do it again at least once to make sure it stays tight.
Great video! We (electricians) usually encourage people not to DIY a car charger. However, if you are going to do so, a calibrated torque driver is probably one of the most commonly overlooked tools needed. Every time someone calls me to request a 6-50 or 14-50 outlet for EV charging, I usually talk them out of it and we end up installing a hardwired charger instead. No risk of overheating and melting outlets. I wouldn't want one of those 14-50s in my house cooking while my kids are upstairs sleeping.
I was preaching outlets 2 years ago when I first got the Tesla. Now I’ve changed my tune. th-cam.com/video/R2cRNzSbw48/w-d-xo.html
True I never thought of that. An EV is the only high power device that runs overnight; kinda like having a range running all night long, every night. Gotta be careful
@@Joe-by8jh yes I know, but that’s not my point. My point is, a range catching on fire you will be awake, and right there to turn it off, possibly preventing a big fire. An EV catching fire, won’t stop until an overcurrent condition, an arc fault condition, a ground fault condition, or the smoke get so bad it sets your alarms off and you go turn it off yourself if it’s not too late.
Jay, Great note. Our EC biz has install 1,200 + in the Motor City. We stay away from all power outlets for EV's. We only install Hardwired EVSE's. At some point, us electrician's will be sued for neglect and manslaughter (hopefully not) for continuing to install "known to fail" electrical devices. Regardless of budget grade or Industrial grade devices. I always inform customers, like you, your are charging while sleeping. Smoke detectors are not rated for non-conditions spaces, maybe a rate-of-raise fire detector maybe a better protection device. DIY"s "DON'T BE THAT GUY"
Remember to get EV installation inspected by AHJ. This way, if you have a property loss, your underwriter will protect and cover the 100%.
Excelent video. This video will save lives
Thanks so much 😊
thank you for the informative video.
My pleasure
Now everyone I know with electric vehicles they leave the charger plugged into the wall and almost never unplug it. I put the outlet in on one and I probably overtorqued the screws because I like my electrical connections to be tight due to the issues you mentioned. And I will most likely go back soon and check it out anyway. I do remember putting a tiny amount of dielectric grease into the connection points before putting the wires in to prevent corrosion in the terminals. I even put a small amount on the slot for the spades in the breaker box to prevent corrosion there.
Thanks for the info
No! Do not use dielectric grease. It's an insulator. It will increase heat.
I have often wondered about the number of people saying "its easy" that "for a couple hundred bucks you can buy a breaker and put in a 50A charger yourself" along with the number of products coming out saying "split and share your dryer plug". I think it would be far better if we get to having a standard EV plug like J1772 and put THAT permanently wired into buildings rather than the mish-mash of plugs...I've also seen some chargers advertised that let you pick the max rate regardless of the plug, and Amazon has lots of reviews about people loving "didn't have to change the outlet and it works at 15A instead of 12A" or even some "worked at 20A with existing outlet" begging the question if someone is using a 15A plug and 15A outlet at 20A just because the breaker is bigger.
I have a plug-in 220v semi-permanently mounted, it allows you to change the charger without having to call electrician. Nobody hard wires a dryer, for example.
Unless a hack replaces of 15 amp breaker with a 20 amp breaker the circuit should be wire wired with 12 gauge and be safe. I think it's pretty common to have 15 amp outlets on a 20 amp circuit, not the best not the worst, the wiring in the wall is more important.
@@rp9674 Well you can change even a charger mounted on the wall without calling an electrician, if you know how to do that. Or do you call an electrician to change a light fixture?
Having something hardwired is always better than having it on a plug, the plug is a weak point, something that can fail, can corrode, not make a good contact, overheat and create a fire. Also residential plugs are not rated for a continuous load, if a plug is rated at 15A it can really handle 15A without damage for a short period of time.
Also chargers on plugs are dangerous for other reason, I don't know in the US, but where I live a circuit made for EV charging has some stricter requirements, for example it needs a type A (or better) GFCI, while for a normal circuit a type AC is sufficient (type AC is not able to detect a DC leakage current, that is something that can happen with an EV). A charger with a plug you can plug it in any socket, even one that doesn't have the required protection.
@@alerighi you can still put a GFCI on an outlet circuit, it's not code on 220v here I don't have it.
@R P - The 2020 National Electric Code now requires GFCI for 240-volt garage outlets. You’re grandfathered, but it will likely get flagged on a home inspection when you sell.
@@handydadtv thanks, I'm bummed I really like GFCI and it's a dedicated circuit. I think the evse has its own protections on that side. My dryer circuit doesn't have a GFCI on it either. I don't think the grandfathering ends at house sale, my house is have aluminum wiring. That was definitely not code in 2001 when I purchased.
This code confuses me, it's more than 150 v and it's 2 phase:
GFCI required for 125-volt to 250-volt receptacles supplied by single-phase branch circuits rated 150 volts or less to ground.
Great video and cool to see someone owning up to their mistakes and learning from them. Just fyi, it's best practice to pull the breaker out of the box before you torque them so so don't bend the bus connection if the breaker twists.
Thanks for the tip
Great you share that info and make people aware of the power of electrical power. And pictures are worth 100 words. Currents of 30, 40 or even 50 Ampere are no joke and need to be handled with respect.
I just wonder, why introduce that outlet and plug anyway ? It is an unnecessary potential failure point. After some plugging and unplugging the contacts will wear out, no question IF, but WHEN.
An (IMHO) far better option is skipping the socket and plug and make a permanent fixed connection to your EV charger, making it a wall-charger. (and if desired keep a separate mobile charger in your car).
Last point, people should NEVER EVER unplug while the EV could be charging. That is pretty dangerous and will definitely destroy the connector, it has to be replaced then, even in case you should not see damage.
This is one reason we have the standard for EV chargers. It will stop the charging as soon as the (shorter) CP signal pin is disconnected so the current can not flow while unplugging the power connection.
Thanks for the info
*TAKE THE VIDEO TO HEART... I can relate. But I would go further. Forget receptacles and plugs altogether. Hardwire it.* My scary store, I bought a used 2015 Nissan LEAF SV end of 2017. Great deal. So clearly LEVEL 1 no good. I bought a used Clipper Creak 20 AMP wall mount charger (240v x 20 amps -= 4.8KW) The charger I bought had hard wiring leads, no plug. So I decided it would be COOL (pun intended) to put put a chord and plug on charger, and mount a NEMA 6-20 AMP wall outlet (obvious mistake I see now). *I figured charger rated at 20 amps and receptacle is rated 20 amps. All is good?* in my garage I added two CB's (220V) to the CB service panel, ran the wires out bottom of CB box into wall (garage is drywalled). I fished the wires to a retro outlet box I installed. I installed the 220V 20 AMP outlet. I added chord and 220V plug to the Clipper Creek charger..... I then mounted charger on studs/drywall and plugged it in. Worked great for awhile. It also gave me flexibility to plug in my 240V Air compressor (not at the same time).
*After a few weeks it melted the wall outlet. It was not pretty. I could see it melted and ready LED was not illuminated on charger. No fire but melted, very ugly, and glad I did not burn the place down.* What happened? Well the receptacle was a cheap NEMA 6-20 Amp 240V outlet they sell at the big box stores (that start with H or L). It was working at the rated power for hours. It failed. Fortunately the melting caused it to OPEN or fuse. The CB's where 20 AMPS did not trip, so I was running just under 20 amps. Never the less this was a bad idea.
*SO THE FIX - I hardwired it.* I got rid of plug and receptacle and hardwired it. I recommend this as #1 choice over plugs and outlets for high AMPS. I used metal conduit to run the individual wires from charger to the wall box (with plain flat plate and metal fitting to run wires). I spliced the charger wires to wires from CB box, with wire nuts very securely.
For compressor I added an additional and separate 240V service with 20 AMP NEMA 6-20 220V outlet, Yes like the one that burned up. This is the plug my compressor uses. The air compressor uses much less current, more like 8 amps. Also the compressor runs for a minute then shuts off. Duty cycle is important. An EV charger is continuous for hours and hours.
Why direct wire? It is easier and cheaper and makes less heat. BIG BEEFY plugs and receptacles are expensive. Then you have all those screw connections. My car (SV model) has optional higher charging capability of 6.6 KW. The standard charging rate is 3.6KW. LEVEL 2 chargers at 4.8KW is plenty for a Nissan LEAF SV that can charger from 20% to 80% in a little over 2 hours. To get to 100% takes longer as the controller limits charge as it gets near 100%. I would SKIP the plugs and receptacles for EV chargers. DIRECT WIRE especially for bigger KW chargers. Leave the receptacles and plugs for electric range/oven and electric clothes dryer.
I think what you missed is a branch circuit should only be used at 80% of capacity, even though that 20 amp breaker will hold all day. The 20 amp rating on that plug / wire is NOT for continuous duty. You might also find the mfgr's instructions call for a 25 or 30 amp circuit to stay under the 80% rule, which means a #10 wire, not #12. BTW, you could always make an adaptor cord to feed your air compressor from a larger outlet.
Your circuit breaker should have tripped. 20a at 3hrs should make it trip and your plug should have been saved. But you need a 30A circuit for this 20A charger, manual even specifies a 30a or 50a plug. If you can set the charger for 18A you will be ok with a 20A circuit. Replace your 20A breaker.
Thanks for sharing!
@@rupe53 Wow thanks. I KNOW THAT NOW!!! NOW YOU TELL ME??? Ha ha. Yep need head room. Also some of these low end receptacles are cheaply made. I would not even use a 30 amp receptacle/plug. 50 amp min even if my charger nominal is 20 amps (25 amp peak). However as I wrote direct wire twisted cooper wire with big wire nuts. Trust me I watched 👀 it with an IR thermometer. The wires are oversized, one gauge larger than charger and wire run is just 4-5 feet total. I'm better than good now.
@@jmaus2k Manual? What manual. I bought it used. You read manuals.. However point taken. It did not trip. I upgraded to 30 amps CB direct wired 10 AWG 4 to 5 feet run. Happy now? Ha ha. I used the 20 amp CB's for another 240v outlet for my compressor. All is well. Direct.
In the US, some people do DIY wiring, and in many places that's legal. However, when it comes to installing anything with a heavy draw of current - like an EV charger - I'd want it to be done by a qualified professional using high-grade equipment.
Still no guarantee. Many commenters say they had melted outlets even though installed by pros.
@@handydadtv True, but I am almost sure your insurance carrier will not cover you for a fire caused by a DIY install of a 40 - 50 Amp circuit. If a red seal does it, and you can prove that, insurance will cover you. They may try to recover their losses from your electrician if they find that they did not follow code. Either way your loss should be covered if installed professionally.
Not true unless you acted maliciously.
@@handydadtv Most people do forget that 99% of the install is simple safe and has zero risk. If you acted with good intentions and carefully setup and double check everything, nothing about a electrical run becomes dangerous at all until there is power applied to it. However even with the best intents a good circuit breaker and other elements can help protect mistakes. Frankly running power is not much more complicated than running an extension cord but one that plugs into a breaker directly. Paid professionals do make mistakes all the time.
Most cities are smart enough to require a Permit on new installations like these. You will need to pull an electrical permit to install a new EV charging circuit. Rules can differ from one city or municipality to another, but a majority of jurisdictions will require that you pull a permit to add wiring to your home or upgrade your electrical pane
Thank you. Good video
My pleasure
Awesome Video Best Regards from Sofia Bulgaria
Thanks so much 😊
Here in Germany, we use a more reliable power outlet for EV-Charging up to 22 kW 230 Volt 3 phase. There are 2 connector types. One for 3 x 16 Ampere (11kW) and a bigger one for 3 x 32 Ampere (22 kW). However vor EV-Charging we prefer to install a specific wallbox which includes also a 5 m cable with a connector to the EV charging port. By the way, wire nuts are crap and risky. We prefer Wago connectors, also available in US.
Wago ❤️
Been using Wagos for over a year. I love them.
Wirenuts are NOT crap, nor are they risky... if you know what you're doing. Wagos are much more expensive and a bit more idiot resistant, but do not provide as much electrical contact surface or pullout/vibration resistance as a wirenut, nor are they as compact.
@@JeremySpidle exactly, the wirenut is just to keep them from loosening. The wires should be pretwisted together.
This is why it’s illegal to do your own electrical work in Australia. If you do your own and there is a fire, your insurance will not cover you. All electrical work must be done by a certified electrician.
Also those wire nuts you guys use are not allowed here, all wiring must be connected using screw terminal blocks.
Thanks for the info!
@@handydadtv no worries. I do love your channel, keep up the great work!
Insurance will cover you in the US if it was done in good faith when I looked into it.
Great video, very informative.
Thanks 😊
Good video.
My coworker had a house catch fire in their neighborhood. It was the plug for the EV in the garage as the cause. Scary to think about. I don’t mess with electrical so had an electrician do mine, $350 buys a lot of peace of mind.
Good decision. As California pushes hard for the public to go EV. You will hear more stories about electrical fires in garages due to charging systems. Absolutely go professional install. But DIYers are still allowed to perform this work.
I agree with using an electrician if it helps you sleep at night.
Nice summary of the issues you have with bad connections. The design of the US domestic installations and outlets compounds the risks enormously. due to the high currenty everythig heats up a lot more. In Europe normal outlets are 220V, the connectors are designed to handle 10A indefinitely, that gives you 2,4 KW to play with. For Charging an EV n an outlet that is of course not much. so you either go with a single phase outlet with 16A, that gives you 3,6 kW, or you go three phase 16A or 32A. wich gives you 11 or 22KW since most EV use the three phases in a star configuration. otherwise they would be able to use 18 or 36 kW at a 16A32A three phase outlet. Three phase power to the house is standard in most of Europe.
utlet desig also mahes a huge difference, for the high currets have a look at CEE connectors for comparisun. So long story short, if you want to charge an EV at home safely in the US, use a wallbox. they have connectors that are designed for the high currents.
As a matter of fact..in the USA, an appliance designed to connect to a standard 120V 15A outlet can't draw more than 12A @ 120V because that's more than 80% of 15 amps. There are some exceptions, but not many. I don't believe there exists an 80% rule like that in Europe.
@@brianleeper5737 ... it's actually 12.5 amps or 1500 watts to make 80% on a 15 amp branch circuit, but you have the right idea.
@@rupe53 If you multiply 15 times 0.8 you come up with 12.
@@brianleeper5737 ... My mistake, you are correct. I was confusing the common 1500 watt appliance rating, which is right on the edge of that. It's 12 amps on a 15 breaker and 16 amps on a 20 breaker. Got a bad case of brain fade after retiring a few years ago. Just remember that insanity is hereditary... you get it from your kids! (but it might not hit for years)
@@rupe53 Yep. And one exception to that rule is hairdryers, they can pull 1800W. Probably only because the 80% rule is for continuous loads over 3 hours.
great teaching
Thanks 😊
After install I always do a resistance test.In to he UK it part of BS 7671 .if high it could be a poor connection. Interesting what others do.Thanks nicely done video.
Thanks
Reminds me of learning about Basics of Tire Removal & Re Mounting . Take the time to do it right . Check & Re check . Might save a life .
Thanks
Nicely done.
Thanks
Great to listen and fix. Great daddy. Voted
Thanks so much 😊
That is valuable advice. I charge my EV from the dryer outlet, and each time I do, I have to remove the the dryer plug to insert the EV charger plug. Now you have me thinking about what might happen over time when removing and reinserting these plugs. I better get on with the replacement outlet like you advised, and get one of those torque screwdrivers. I checked the outlets from your link, and they are pricey, but if it averts a possible house fire, it is definitely worth it for sure. Much thanks.
In addition, charge as SLOWLY as necessary to replenish your daily commute. No reason to charge in 2 hours if your car will sit there overnight. My charger can do 32 amps, but I have it set to 15 and could go lower.
Higher power generates higher heat.
@@handydadtv I agree. Why charge quickly if the car is only sitting over night. Come to think of it, I could try charging at 110V. It will take quite a bit longer, but I'm retired, so there is no rush. 🙂
I'm looking at doing the same thing from the dryer 240v outlet but using the Splitvolt switch that gas a built in regulator and breaker to ensure you don't overload the wiring. This makes it where you don't have to unplug anything and the switch automatically goes back and forth with the power to the dryer or charger.
What's concerning me is the dryer runs on an old 10-30 plug. Now Splitvolt makes a switch and EVSE that run off the 10 30 plugs so I'm assuming that's safe to do, but I'm still wondering how safe and if I should replace the dryer outlet first
@@vicenzor9699I have a 2022 Nissan Leaf with 48kw battery. In the close to three years of charging, there have been no issues. I just unplug the dryer and plug in the EV cable. It’s an old plug as well dating back to 1969 when the house was built.
@vicenzor9699 I would absolutely replace the outlet and inspect the wiring. Why chance it?
This was a really cool and informative video! Maybe I could add some useful information to it. Just to clarify - I am not familiar with the available electrical connectors in the US market, since I live in Europe (actually in Norway), so I have way better overview on European market. So, after this clarification let me explain that there exists a much better terminal design than the screw terminal shown in the video - this is the spring terminal. Many years ago I worked for a company named WAGO. This German company invented 75 years ago the spring terminals, which eliminate the need to periodically tighten the terminals, because the spring follows all changes/movements during the years and in addition the contact will be resistant against the resonances and the temperature gradients as well. Now I have really different job, but as an experienced electrical engineer I still suggest to everybody to prioritize the electrical component with spring terminals instead of any screw-type because of the way higher safety. But please note, that only the reliable, good quality products (from well-known manufacturers) should be used (better to avoid the unknown manufacturers remakes) and it is similarly important to follow very tight the connection rules described by the manufacturer. I think US can be really proud on the Space Industry - so it is good to know that within the Space Industry there is the only accepted terminal type is the spring terminal (in most cases the original make) even on the spacecrafts and on the boosters... I hope this information makes Your live better and safer! 😉
I love Wago connectors for the convenience and ease of reuse. Never thought about the spring preventing the need to retighten! Thanks for giving me another reason to love Wagos!
Great video!
Thanks 😊
Just installed a 30amp outlet in my shop for our Tesla mobile connector. Going to check the torque on all my connections tomorrow. Thanks.
You’ll sleep well.
Thank you for great information related with safety. I see Rutgers school logo. I’m a Rutgers alumni too!
R U rah rah
Whoa, thanks for this. I should go check my work…
My pleasure
Really enjoy your videos, sir. And I applaud you for doing electrical work on TH-cam. I really think electricians are the most vocal of any group when it comes to nitpicking. Certainly, someone should speak up if the video portrays something truly dangerous. But I swear to God, even if you did everything by the book, they'd tell you you had the wrong shoes on.
You’re right about that. But I don’t blame them. They need to preserve their livelihood.
ty for this video!!
My pleasure
Being from Canada originally I always loved using the robertson.
I need to get the special ones that electricians use that have a combo Robertson and flat blade. That’s the best way to torque.
Awesome, wow I learned and will remember
Glad it was helpful
Nice video thanks. I believe it is not smart to plug and unplug an outlet that big every day or any outlet as too many bad things can happen including wear and possibly touching the leads ect. So much better to have a hard wired charger box that you just plug into your car. This video makes me realize its importance all the more.
Thanks 👍🏻
Sandy Monroe had a great video covering this several months ago but they also brought up something most people don't know about and that is duty cycle it's a good watch and is very technical.
I saw it. I agree the standards need to change to use bolt-on breakers for EV charging.
Good diy video man, for future reference buddy use a ES1 bit to torque your screws. It’s literally a combo flat/slot drive and Robinson/square drive bit. It fills the entire void in the screws and prevents cam-out and stripping of the screws.
Yeah I need to get myself some of those bits.
@@handydadtv their great man, no more cam-out and stripping is very limited. Their awesome for electrical work especially on devices, go figure that’s exactly what their designed for, lol.....
Wow! A video that gets right to the problem, then the solution! He didnt want to play video DJ! 5 starrs!
Thanks so much 😊
Now I know why the outlet blow my charging adapter and the outlet. 🤔 Great Video 👍
Wish you saw it sooner
@@handydadtv Luckily, The charging adapter for the car is covered by dealer warranty, because vehicle has less than 60,000 miles on it.
As a professional electrician who is predominantly involved in diagnosis, repair and replacement, I seriously recommend that people just stay out on their electrical panel and call an electrician. Most people know enough to get themselves hurt. Electricity has the potential to be very dangerous but more so, it can still work even when done wrong! In that case, it's a ticking time bomb and you're risking the safety of your family.
That all being said, I totally understand why people do this. It's your home and perhaps you like to take on projects and perhaps you are very proficient at a lot of tasks. You can easily buy just about everything you need at your local hardware store but you can't buy training or years of experience. Kudos to this man for admitting his mistake and he did give good advise. I do respect all people and their right to repair their own homes but please be careful and maybe think twice about whether you should even be doing it or not. I know trades people can be expensive but you are not paying for the labor, you are paying for the expertise and assurance that it's done right.
Appreciate for your feedback. Many full time electricians work weekends for extra cash and they are usually very reasonable.
yes but I have had maybe 5 different electricians over the years and everyone sucked. I had to redo all of their work. I trust no one in my house anymore.
@@lastlion65 I Agree. My solution is to learn how to do things properly and then do them myself. Some years ago I rewired my house and had a few arguments with the electrical inspector along the lines of the inspector telling me he would not make me do such a good job and me telling him that it was my house and I wanted the best possible job done. Had to sell that house and in the house I moved (built in 1980) into I have yet to open an electrical box where the workmanship was even remotely satisfactory. Same thing goes for plumbers and double for car mechanics!
@Vincent you’re my kind of guy! 👍🏻
@@Vincent_Sullivan I had my house built late 70's and I have reworked most of the plumbing the Electrical. Reinforced floor joist, replaced cheap windows, took out my Foam insulation that failed. Now I am doing the same thing in Florida with my sons 3/4 of a million house. Oh and my daughters house near me in Michigan.
Great video
Thanks so much
I use that Hubbel industrial grade outlet and I got a competent electrician to install it and I also run it at a few amps below the maximum rated just to be a bit safer and that way I sleep soundly at night.
Good plan.
I'm not an engineer, I'm a retired ind electrician. As you found out taking a breaker terminal screw all the way to torque spec can come with its own issues. As a pro I've seen high quality industrial switchgear terminations get stripped out because someone had to take it all the way to spec. Tighten, wiggle, tighten, wiggle a few times should do it. Make sure the screwdriver blade is the right size and that it has a nice crisp edge, if it's rounded like a butterknife go get a new one. I don't think very many electrical terminations in homes get used to the max amp spec percentage. Any time you go past 80% of max rated ampacity for hours, that's a recipe for problems, it's gonna create heat and over time cause the insulation to get brittle, like you found in your video. One thing that would be a good idea would be to put your hand on the face of the breaker (with the panel cover on) just to get a sense of the heat, any electrical connections producing serious heat should tell you there's a problem. I would be curious to know if you have a 50 amp receptacle what the actual max amp draw is during a typical charge session. If they are going past 80% for hours, as an electrician I'd be concerned. If you look at a breaker the way it connects to the panel buss bar it's a little clip that uses tension to make the connection, it's not screwed in place, so repeatedly heating and cooling that little clip is going to cause it to loosen it's grip and possibly start the heat/carbon buildup/arcing ......> fire.
Thanks for input! I have a 50-amp breaker but only charge at 15 amps daily. Hot wiring scares the crap out of me.
Excellent video, I had an interesting arching issue, I purchased a 66 year old home and of course had an inspection, the inspector opens the basement door, the furnace was on, and he flipped the furnace switch at the top of the stairs off then right back on and says, oh the furnace switch doesn't work, well it actually had a delay due to it having a sticking spring inside, but shortly after,it malfunction and I turned it off then on to try to find why the furnace stopped working and I saw arching from the switch, I replace it and opened the old one and found lots of arching had occurred inside it, a fire waiting to happen
Yikes
Very good
Thanks
Well done for the update. There are way too many videos that are giving old, outdated advice on EVSE installs. Most of the videos that are 4-5 years old on this subject should probably be taken down. This is what I do for a living and I am getting away from 14-50 outlet installs and going with hardwire only.
Good plan.
Awesome. Perfect advice. Now how many electricians do you think use a torque wrench/driver on the job. I'm guessing it's a small number. I want to go out and check the torque on everything in my electrical box. Great video.
I don’t think they torque. I think they do it enough to know when things are tight enough, right before they strip the threads.
Some of us use torque wrenches to insure we don't over tighten.
😅 75 inch pounds... that's like 6 foot pounds. A half "umph" of elbow grease if you know what I mean. This coming from a dude that has torqued hundreds of 3/4 nuts to 75 foot pounds on industrial ATS's and STS's. That's 900 inch pounds😅
That's almost a couple "RrrrAhhh!" worth of elbow grease.
One of the two hot screw-down terminals in the 14-30R socket installed when the house was built, had a mechanical failure where one side of the 'U' broke. As a result, the wire could not be clamped tightly. While the outlet voltage measured 220V as expected, it would not have been able to pass any significant current without overheating. Ended up having to buy a new socket and ensure that all four screw terminals (2 hot, neutral, ground) would tighten properly.
*our house*. My L2 charger has a live voltage / current display so I can tell that under load, the voltage is not dropping significantly at the outlet.
Thanks for sharing!
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe loose neutral wires are the main cause of electrical fires, particularly in residential buildings. When I was a volunteer fire fighter I was shown the cause of many house fires due to loose neutrals, mostly due to work done by DIYers. Because of that and knowing the symptoms of loose neutrals I've detected and repaired a few in my own home. I'm in a wheelchair now and can't reach my breaker panel so I have an electrician come in every 5 years and retorque every screw in my panel and it surprises me how a few loosen up over time.
EVs don’t use the neutral wire because they only need 240 volts. But your point is well made for 120-volt outlets. Thanks.
Great vid
Thanks 😊