I do like how you identify Blaidd as a positive Shadow. People do not only repress their anti-social qualities, but ones they fear they cannot express safely as they make them vulnerable. If I recall properly, Blaidd only becomes hostile only after Ranni accepts the Tarnished as their consort which requires her to express those qualities again. Thus her shadow had no further purpose to her and needed to be released from form. A study of Ranni as the Dark Mother archetype would be very interesting.
Man Im so glad I finally found someone making the connection between Jung and Miyazaki's games. I have always suspected this since the split between Laurence and Willem made me think of the split between Jung and Freud. Great work
Loved how you overlayed shots of Malekith and Serosh when talking about the Shadow self… so on the nose I felt stupid for not noticing it myself. And Godfrey finally shedding his “noble” ego self to be Horah Loux, the violent Shadow self that he needed a literal beast-regent grafted onto him to suppress, adds such a deep new layer to his otherwise very campy sumo-wrestler boss battle 😂 guy kept that side of himself bottled up for so long he had to kill his observer/consciousness to unlock it again.
Most stories touch on at least some aspects of Jung's work but I've always found From's games to be some of the most consciously Jungian works out there. I've been waiting for a video like this for almost a year, as most lore videos tend to only concentrate on the events and characters within the world without delving into the meaning behind them that Miyazaki/From were trying to convey, despite the fact that interpreting meaning can make certain events and characters make more sense. I'm mainly referring to Melina, as I was previously thinking of her more as an earlier child of Marika that had been stricken from history akin to Gwyn's firstborn. But now I'm seeing her more as a part of her shadow that she either couldn't quite lock away, or is perhaps seeping back out. Still I find it strange that she is so eager to sacrifice herself, but maybe that is reflective of Marika's desire to be rid of that aspect of herself? Sorry for rambling, but this video really got my mind racing. Needless to say I'm looking forward to your follow up videos on more of the specifics. You got a sub from me 👍
Melina has to return to the tree so she can be reborn again with her purpose as Destined Death. This is why you have to complete the The Rune of Death and finish Fia/Marikas quest line so she can birth Melina again at the roots of the Erdtree. Melina will definitely want to avenge her brother Godwyn when she remembers who she is 😂 Godwyn and Melina are Godfrey’s kids. The ONLY duality is Radagon and Marika, everything else in this video is reaching. Marika NEVER sent Maliketh to kill Melina.. that was the Fingers Marika is trying to get free from the Elden Beast and is done being a sex slave/incubator giving birth to a bunch of abominations. Just to keep feeding the tree/Elden Beast Melina definitely would have been able to free her mother. When the fingers had her daughter killed with Maliketh (who is Melina’s shadow, much like Blaid was for Ranni. I do agree there is some duality) that’s why he is stuck eating death, his sin was that he killed his own being (Melina)
This is why Melina keeps saying “I was born at the foot of the Erdtree” Godwyn shares their father’s (Godfrey’s) blood. So she can be born again, and return death to the lands between indiscriminate
Think of it less like FromSoft was intentionally trying to depict Jung's theories, and more like, Jung was so right, he was onto something so deep and true that it is structural to human experience... such that you are going to find evidence of this structure in any piece of art which is moving enough to inspire examination of this kind.
Under any other circumstance, I would agree with this assumption. However, there are several things that FromSoft does that make me think that they based this directly off of Jung’s theories and not so much that they simply apply. The use of the term “shadow”, the fact the Marika and Radagon are the same person, the steps of individuation and the changing color of the erdtree are just to name a few. It’s true that in most mass consumed media Jung’s concepts apply but I haven’t seen another case where his concepts literally come to life as they do in Elden Ring.
@@CenteredTarnished are you familiar with the influence of the manga Berserk on Elden Ring? A lot of people find Berserk also exemplifies the mechanics described by Jung. Besides the fact that Jung is immensely influential and ingenious in general, that may be where the interest started for Miyazaki.
@@CenteredTarnished oh man, do yourself a favor and start by watching the 97 anime of the main story arc... It's one of the best stories ever created. th-cam.com/video/opEshfYQHcE/w-d-xo.html
Regarding the Elden Beast: its nervous system is suspiciously similar to amber starlight, suggesting a measure of external influence. I also find it relevant to the discussion of psychology that "Seluvis" (a character who both creates the amber draught to control Ranni and is implied to be a puppet himself) can be broken into "Selu" and "Vis" and translated to read as "Self face". Also notable that "Oridys" tower (found near an isolated group of gravity mages) can be broken down as the Yoruba word "Ori-" = "head (refering to one's spiritual intuition and destiny)" and the Greek-based "dys" = "abnormal/bad/impaired". So the tower associated with gravity is called "head bad tower", or "tower of the abnormal spiritual destiny". Recalling that gravity magic is shown as a current - the next leap in logic would indicate that things associated with gravity magic are in opposition to the Primeval Current.
Hmm very interesting..... I haven't really looked too deep into Seluvis' questilne but this is a great find. Do you think that the purpose of the potion is to stop her from "rebelling" against the current status quo? It would make sense if that is the case with your findings of Seluvis being an extension of the Self. I'm not really sure what to make of the Ordiys' tower. Another really great find but I am not sure why do you associate gravity with the opposition of the Primeval Current? To me it would be more in opposition to the Golden Order/ Erdtree faith. Could you explain further?
@@CenteredTarnished For the amber potion - there is a video by Hawkshaw that summarizes colour associations in the game. He speculates that "amber" is the colour of rebirth based on Renala's amber egg, but I think it's more accurate that amber represents stagnation, like a fly caught in amber. Renala is caught in a loop and unable to do anything effective. Seluvis similarly intends to use the amber draught to keep Ranni from progressing her plans. For gravity magic, there are scattered hints - if it is assumed that something about Ranni's ending makes it more of a "true end" than the others. Sorceress Sellen is shown to be studying primeval sorcery and part of her questline is transposing her soul to a new body. Ranni similarly transfers her soul from one body to another, which would imply association with primeval sorcery. For Ranni's ending to be possible, Radahn needs to be defeated to make the stars move again, and Radahn stopped the stars with gravity magic. A direct opposition. The part about gravity magic being a current was from a SmoughTown video "Astel and Cosmic Mysteries" which went through the evidence that gravity magic is associated with electromagnetism. It caught my attention because the video noted that electromagnetism is a "flow of charged particles", but did not make the connection that this is the definition of "electrical current". Falling star beasts, gravity stone, Onyx and Alabaster Lords - all things associated with gravity magic exclusively arrive with meteors from space. Compare to the Crystalian's who "cleave close to the Primeval Current" and "yearn for the return of their creator who will carve for them new brethren." The Crystalians are associated with the glintstone, which propogates abundantly in Liurnia.
To further your point about gravity magic running counter to the Primeval Current, I would like to mention the part in Ranni's questline about killing Radhan. Since Radhan is using his gravity magic to hold stars and as mentioned in game, fate, still it is possible that the Primeval Current is fate moving forward. This could also be why Lusat and Azure could only look into the current once, as the fate written in the stars was too much for them to handle similar to how Corhyn and other prophets blind themselves after glimpsing a future where the Erdtree burns.
24:48 I think making a statement that “the entire game is x” is a bit bold. I do, however, think it would be fair to say something like “because we can assume elden ring pulls inspiration from Jung’s work, we could also use elden ring to depict collective unconsciousness” I just think it’s likely that there would be multiple inspirations for the world of elden ring, not just jung or alchemy or botany or irl history etc. Great video!
This video has so many good ideas, wow. I really liked your take on "Numen" being a phonetic iteration of "Neumann", and your idea of the glass sound design of the Elden Beast representing the shattering of Marika's psyche.
This is one of the most interesting and contemplative takes on the game I've seen. I hope channels like yours and tarnished archeologist continue making videos as they offer a much deeper introspection. I think you and Quelagg would have a lot to talk about.
Great Work! Your studies have served you well. One of the better looks into The Foundation of Elden Ring. I am Old Dark Souls Lore guy and looked at Miyazaki's work through that lens and this production has really opened my eyes a bit wider. Excellent presentation, subscription added. Thanks for all your time!
this video just explained the whole story of the game unlike any other one I've seen on TH-cam if the DLC or ER2 doesn't end just like what's down here, I'll be baffled, bamboozled even
Within this framework would it be safe to say that the tarnished are thoughts or feelings Marika had that are interacting with aspects of her self being? Similar to aging or even dementia? Or even more radical, a mind altering psychoactive/psychedelic agent? Fun to think about.This is just a quick off the cuff reflex thought.
I have a question. Do you believe that the Tarnished Archeologist's theory of civilizational strata can be applied to your lore application of Jungian psychology? If so, how do you think the archological/historical perspective of the world of Elden Ring can complement the Jungian perspective and vice versa? Lastly, do you think a philosophical/theological perspective of Elden Ring has any place to benefit comprehension when the Jungian view explains so much of the lore as is, or do you think it only serves to benefit discussion apart from explaining the thought processes behind the lore?
This is a great comment. I would like to know Centered Tarnished’s thoughts on this too. Perhaps the past civilizations represent the historical context into which we are born. There’s a history to the world when we come into it, full of traditions, which we learn as we develop? As for philosophical & theological interpretations, they’re probably just as valid & important as this psychological one. There might be many levels on which the game is true, & a fact might mean one thing theologically & another psychologically
Ive been trying to tell people this in lore commentary but people dont know what im talking about! And the Shadow of the Erdtree DLC seem to support this. Also, its worth noting that Miyazaki has always used Jungian and Alchemical themes. In the Bloodborne community it is known that there is a parallel between the schism betweem Willem and Laurence and Frued and Jung. This is my first encounter with your stuff. Can watch your other stuff! Edit: Its pretty apparent that the DLC is going to take place in the large body of water in the center of the map. Jung identifies bodies of water as a symbol of the unconscious. Aldo the tree is draped in the same linen covering that Marika's bedchamber is which suggests dreams which Jung identified as when the veil is thinnest between the conscious and the unconcious. Miquella who is the god of sleep dwells in this shadow land and was likely the original owner of torrent. Everything spectral like summons and Torrent mirror the visuals of this land with those spectral gravestones. Other random thoughts: 1. Blaidd was called Ranni's shadow 2. Radagon and Marika being the same person seem to suggest anima and animus; hermes and aphrodites; hermaphrodite. 3. Marika apparently is a Numen. I remember numen being a term Jung used. I'll have to review it. 4. A frequent alchemical image is the dragon being replaced by a lion after its head is hewn off. Placidussax was the first Elden Lord and he was replaced by Godfrey the Lion. 5. Gold themes are used excessively. Which paired with the alchemical interpretation makes a lot of sense as the philosophers stone was supposed to turn lead to gold or your soul enlightened.
Man, thank you so much for the video. I keep on the vein of Elden Ring lore community and I always feel like most of the main parts of the symbolism, references, meaning and backstory have already been explored, yet I am again and again swept away by yet another hour long breakdown of another layer of meaning I had no idea was there; wink, wink. Thank you also for taking the time to explain Jung's theories. One thing I appriciate the souls-borne games for is that by exploring the meaning behind them, you also learn more about yourself. Thanks again for this video - I await more.
Lovely video. Are you familiar with Quelaag’s channel? She talks a lot about philosophical and religious concepts in ER. She’s very thorough, almost to the point of it feeling like a lecture lol. But my impression from her work is that the game is not just influenced by Jung, but also many other works that predate and follow his. I highly recommend 😋
Awesome video! I've played ER for 3 weeks now and can't seem to put it down. Excellent application of Jungian depth-analysis, I loved it! I would like to add one reason of us slaying the Elden Beast could be that we are in fact slaying the Ego of Marika that has been wholly swallowed by her shadow consisting of The All Encompassing Mother - Obsessed with order and represses any uncomfortable truths such as death (as you yourself pointed out) for her children. Only when the All Encompassing has been slain can a new order be enacted, and thus can her children truly live their own lives. As for myself, I was making ties with Lacanian Psychoanalysis with the Great Order representing The Obsessive in the culturally "masculine" and "feminine" pathologies of obsessiveness and hysteria. In the lands between, the hysteric (Marika) has chosen to live through her obsessive projection (Radagon) and thus repressed her own individual. Through this, the only remaining part of her, her "husk" through the elden beast, is a stomring entity so conflicted between obsessiveness through Radagon (a strengthening of the constructed ego) and her hysteria (through not acting within the world, being made void as she lives through her children and not as an individual) as The All-encompassing mother. Indeed, all of the inhabitants are striving towards order in the lands between, although i would argue that the issue isn't disorder rather than a stale stagnation that is perpetuated by the demi-gods destroying the lands. Thus, replacing one obsession (the golden order, the tree etc) with another "order" or "age" would inevitably lead to the same stagnation. The Omen and the Crucible is overlooked as it is the representation of "disorder" - but in my view might have been a healthy one; disordered enough to produce variation and perpetuate dialectics, but ordered enough for individuals to be born. ER truly paints up the picture of the concept of the split self - from carrying themes of difference and repetitions (Deleuze). Order tends to swallow and territorialize disorder and integrate it within the order - and when it can't (as is the case of the Omens), it dispenses of them through sheer might. Thus Order breaks the Eternal Recurrence of ever "becoming" - nothing in the lands between ever "become" as nothing differentiates through the soup of likeness that is. Indeed, mobs are positioned exactly the same, and all souls amalgamate at the erdtree. The only thing that consist of some form of difference are the Omens and potentially the Tarnished, both reviled by the Order. Ironically, the frenzied flame also strives to break "becoming" by disintegrating all difference. I could write a whole lot more on this subject, but it was just some thoughts on the back of my head from my playthrough. But again, Awesome video! :)
Wow, this is an incredibly deep reply that may take some time to fully digest haha! You are the second person to mention Lacanian psychoanalysis so there must be something to it and I need to check it out for sure. Join my discord so we can chat further! To much to go over in the comment section :) Either way, thanks for watching and for the kind words!
@@CenteredTarnished Sadly I do not know much more about Jungian analysis than the average layman, but as a clinical psychologist i have dabbled a bit in psychoanalysis and find it extremely interesting. I am not that knowledgeable on the topic though, still forever learning! :) One thing i also forgot to mention is the concept of Peur Aeternus and how it relates to Miquella. Miquella, being the eternal child on its path to becoming, is halted and cocooned much like the "NEET shut-in" that is provisionally living his life in waiting for some form of transformation. Living in the realm of ideas and dreams rather than reality, the Peur (and Miquella) is slumbering and admired for his wisdom and potential, but his actions of becoming his potential are nowhere to be seen. Doomed to ever be a child, the peur will become lost in his slumber and live through it as his body grows old, and the youthfulness he once had might grow into a form of helplessness at best and rejection of aspects of reality leading to psychosis (in the psychoanalytical sense) at worst. And I'll be sure to check out your discord! Ill just be referring to Bruce Finks "Clinical introduction to lacanian psychoanalysis" for the interested. It doesn't delve too deep into theory, and if you are familiar with analytic concepts like repression and neurosis it's definitely worth a read. It is quite different from Jungian theory, although esotericism is always fun hehe. Besides, theory in general and psychology in specific tend to talk about the same thing but capture them in different concepts to illuminate different aspects of it.
@@brorium YES SIR!!! We are on the same page with many of these concepts and the way they tie into Elden Ring. Jung has a total of 12 archetypes and I believe they all tie into the demigods. I'm having difficulty staying disciplined and staying focused on one topic due to the sheer amount of psychology is in this game. Give me a shout when you join the discord, I would love to get your thoughts on a few things!
This is a really cool theory. But there is only one problem bucko, in a 2018 lecture, renowned psychologist Roland Amundsen proved that postmodernism (and therefore Lacan) is just marxisim with extra steps. I’m sure you agree. Anyways… #IDontLikeTheDevil
Ya know I really WANT to watch smoughtown but something about his droning and lack of direction deters me every time. This is much more definitive to follow with hard points to ‘anchor’ my thoughts to. Presentation is everything
Top tier lore video, the game really does seem to be about human psychology and different aspects of the psyche and the self, I feel like youre in the right track and am looking forward to the other parts
the AI stuff is a big stretch. Those aren't generated by anything using conscious thought, they're just an aggregate of human images that have been uploaded with the tag "consciousness"
Yeah, you're not the only one with that comment. I thought it added a nice touch but seems like they aren't really a source so I will refrain from using them in the future.
@@CenteredTarnished it is fun to see the output of these models, but unfortunately the way people currently approach them is mentally unsound. People talk to character AI and see a human mind when in truth none of these systems are even remotely close to that level yet. Don't let yourself fall into the trap of humanizing your toys. :p
Really enjoyed this take on the lore and concept of the game. My only criticism would be that the audio cuts out/off at critical moments, particularly when you're making a point about a given concept, which completely detracts from any conclusion you were trying to purvey. I would love to watch this again once it is whole, and hope you have the same love for your work that you clearly have the the lore of Elden Ring to make it so.
Marika's stone-like appearance and Jung's description of the Ego as "something small and hard, like a stone" is, in my opinion, in no way "confirmation that the game is indeed heavily influenced on Jung's research, and that Queen Marika represents the Ego." I think it's a huge leap to reach that assumption.
I appreciate your comment but am going to push you on your feedback. Can you explain why you feel this way? Is there evidence supporting another reason for her stone-like appearance? Do you agree with the other Jungian connections? If so, why is it this one that you don't accept? I could definitely be wrong and am not married to this idea but am curious why you choose that one thing.
@@CenteredTarnished I don't outright disagree with the theory, and I definitely don't know enough about the subject to try and prove or disprove it either way. I guess maybe the certainty of the statement made me bristle- the way this game is, it's already hard enough to feel confident in even the most basic assumptions about the lore and the themes, at least for me. So it sounded at first like you were saying that one connection was absolute proof that Miyazaki specifically designed the game with all of these Jungian concepts in mind. But to be fair, you did say it was "another" confirmation of those influences, not THE confirmation that the whole theory is correct. I really don't have a better explanation for Marika's appearance. I kind of like the idea that the gods are literally born of the Erdtree somehow, and that they're not made of stone but of wood. But I know there's no evidence for that.
@@Galamoth06 thank you for responding!! Dude, I have no idea if I am even close to right haha. I'm just a guy that is following the evidence the best I can. I didn't even know who Carl Jung was 6 months ago so I am by know means an expert or trying to say this is how it is. I still have a lot of work to do in presenting my opinions and honestly your feedback is really important. Too many times people hear one thing they don't like and immediately condemn the entire thing. I am really happy you responded with your feedback. What I can say is that since I have explored this psychological framework, a lot of things are making more sense. I have read 4 books by Jung - not an easy task lol - and am slowly but surely understanding it better. I hope you continue watching and continue providing feedback. Someone calling B.S. is just as important as someone saying this is great. Together, hopefully we can figure this fucking thing out. All I ask is that if someone does disagree, they provide a reason why. Figuring this game out will undoubtedly require some crazy stretching - as is the way with Miyazaki. I mean if you look at current lore videos of his past games, DS1, BB, etc they are getting 100's of thousands of views because we still haven't figured those out and it's been a decade! Either way, I genuinely appreciate the comments and the fact that you took the time to watch. Hope to see you in the next one!
@@CenteredTarnished Man, I've been wracking my brain over this game for over a year now and I'm no closer to understanding than I was when I started. I've seen so many lore videos from so many creators, spent hours reading comments and theories. Sometimes I really do think it's uninterpretable. Either they set out to make the most believable yet confusing mess of disconnected lore that never made sense in the first place, or so many things had to be changed or cut in development that the narrative fell apart along the way. For instance, Dark Souls 3 apparently had a much different story than the one that ended up releasing, with characters shuffled around and plot points completely removed. I've always wanted to see what the original, unaltered, ideal vision for these games would have been, and it makes me wonder if Elden Ring might have at one point been a very different game. But, Miyazaki has said there is a proper timeline of events, just that he doesn't intend on enforcing it on anybody- so like all his past games we'll probably just never know for sure. Which is infuriating, but at the same time is probably why I haven't given up trying to piece it together yet. Did you know Hoarah Loux was originally Goldmask's name? Who knows what that could have implied... And that's just one tiny rabbit hole
Thank you for staying so focused, so clear, and sticking to psychodynamics and Jungian psychology as opposed to jumping topics or philosophizing As far as lore explanation videos go, I think this is one of the best ones I've seen, stay awesome!
your videos are so good! I find it really hard to take all of the story of the game as literal and this perspective is perfect as an allegorical narrative just as the myths of yore
this is my journey into your videoes,and my god i have been diving into elden ring's lore for two years and this concept of consensuses getting power is one that was lost to me this first self as like Adam that formed this first person to harbor these quilts of going against nature (also QMC being Markia being Melina blew my mind) i wanted to thank you for analyzing this work through the lens of psychology and personifying ,i also think the dark soul of the Dark souls series was the very similarities but here it is very deeply person about one person and their fate
Thank you so much for this video! Subbed and looking forward to more. It's quite interesting that our brains are shaped like trees, with the roots (root chakra too!) and stem and everything! But erdtree type trees, not conifers ( that's the coneheads' brains!). This visualization helps me see the lore in a whole new way. I think hinduism is also a big influence on the game and Jung himself. A lot of psychologists are influenced by Kabbalism and Ancient Mystery Schools, where alchemy and hermiticism sprang from.
Hey man, just getting started with your stuff; found you via Ratatoskr and Crunchy. Anyway, maybe you go on to say as much, but have you read psychiatrist Iain McGilchrist's The Master and His Emissary?
@@CenteredTarnished Absolutely-was a life-changing read for me. It's an analysis of the actual functional differences between the left and the right hemispheres (rather than the pop psych nonsense about one side being "creative" and the other "logical"). The first half of the book explains how the right hemisphere is the "Master" in that it has a broader, more open view of the world and gathers context, while the left hemisphere is the "Emissary", which focuses more narrowly and precisely. One of the most helpful analogies he uses is a bird searching for tiny bits of food amid grass; the bird uses its left eye (controlled by the right hemisphere) to keep a look out for dangers in its environment while its right eye (left hemisphere) simultaneously searches the ground for bits of food. McGilchrist also talks about studies of "split-brain" patients whose hemispheres can be studied independently. The second half of the book analyzes the history of Western art and civilization in light of these findings. McGilchrist's process is very similar to what you're doing here. Highly recommend you check it out: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_His_Emissary
I definitely agree that a lot of game's lore could well be based off these psychological concepts, but I don't think that has to mean that the world is literally inside Marika's mind, that feels like you're trying to force the psychology aspect too hard. I think it's more interesting, and easier to believe, that the Land's Between is a real physical place in-universe, it just happens to be reflecting Marika's inner struggles, perhaps because of how much influence she has had over it.
Phenomenal video. The TH-cam recommendations came through big time for me here. Liked, subbed, and looking forward to diving into your inner world playthrough.
Do you think there may be a connection to the primeval current and collective conscience? Sellen and the graven talismans seemed to be made of fused souls. IMO Sellen’s question is similar to the Frenzy flame where the goal is to return Life to a singularity but Sellen was more like trying to tap into a infinity or abyss, maybe she was trying to tap into like a collective unconscious and it distorted and fused her soul with others who presumably did the same.
TBH I'm not that familiar with Sellen's questline. I have done it but a while ago so I need to revisit it to make a more confident assessment of it. Here is what I can take a stab at however. To me, I would say the graven talisman depicts the collective conscious of those sorcerers. I believe what the game is saying is that when you have a one-tracked mind or obsession and leave all else behind, you get consumed by it. And when this happens to a group of people, your individuality get's lost and you become part of this echo chamber or hive mind where your individual voice is lost. Just as things like religion can become dogmatic, so can science. I believe this to be another example of just how important balance in one's life is - an Miyazaki seems love this concept as well. Not 100% sure on this but it certainly fits the narrative of the game and human development. Hope this helps!
Hmm good video. Though I don’t think your right about everything and are maybe putting the Jungian concept into too much of everything I do still think this is an interesting video. You watch some of smoughtown’s elden ring videos they are good stuff and this one video I watched earlier today called elden ring lore: sex, rebirth and false gods. I recommend these to expand of the lore knowledge for your future elden ring videos. Hope they help.
Honestly, great video. It gave me a lot to think about. I definitely think your theories are way off track (at least in regard to the literal interpretation of events), but I enjoy them nonetheless.
I suppose that makes the Lands Between the consciousness and the stars are the real world. Outer gods would then be ideas that invade the mind, and the Badlands are akin to subconscious, making tarnished self reflections that were repressed and dredged back up to confront a state of crisis.
I actually haven't made the connection of the subconscious being the Badlands - that makes sense however. As the subconscious mind contains information that is stored when the conscious mind gets overload and wants to preserve for later use. i.e. Godfrey and the tarnished. I'm curious why you make the connection of the stars and real world? Regarding the outer gods, you nailed it! They would represent psychological pathologies such as addiction, obsession, depression, etc. Things that quickly take over and consume someone's thoughts.
@@CenteredTarnished My theory is that we see the stars depicted as controlling fate and their motion controls causality. So when Radahn stills them, the state of the Lands Between is preserved at the cost of shutting off any external influences. Much like one might close themselves off from the world when they are afraid. And it does seem that fear is the response we see given the reactions to malformed stars and the primeval current.
I like that interpretation! I always saw the stars and primeval current as scientific advancement - something that the early church (which Marika clearly associated with) is deathly afraid of. It's cold, godless, and has no need for a "god". Radahn would represent that piece of Marika's psyche that is desperate to keep that spread of science at bay - assumingly the strongest part of her since Radahn is the most powerful demigod- showing just how fearful she is of a godless science. Interesting that Radahn ends up using science (gravity magic) to save his friend/ horse. It's like the modern day version of someone who prays AND receives medicine for an illness. A contradiction of beliefs.
Incredible intro, & another sincere dive into “what is going on” Jst watched ur vid on “the possible Gloam Eyed Queen” (not the title; recent vid) Your theory there went from “pretty cool” to genuine implications that you strongly substantiated Now seeing your vids from a little while ago -gotta hand it to you m8, you make strong arguments. Glad I ran across this channel; needed another “hat in the ring” Don’t know why I’ve not seen ur vids till now-but nicely done sir
Great video. I didn't play the game and as a psychologist who is tend to behaviorist approaches, I loved it. Thanks to your passionate perseverance required for this video.
Only 87 subs with this insanely amazing video??? Holy f*ck. Well you have my sub! This must have been the best analysis video of elden ring so far and I've watched a LOT!
Yo I messed up.... I’ve been saying marika is like subconscious of the mind... but ego seems a lot more fitting.... she’s the ego saying it’s time for a change.... doesn’t matter how... for better or worse things need to change...
I just recently happened to catch Centered live and realized I still hadn't watched this video and so did not really know what lens was being used to view ER from. I am a bit perplexed at how fitting not only some overarching aspects are, but the individual imagery and cutscene direction is as well. While most people would say the plunging and resurfacing of Radagon, or Serosh's gory death, are just "cool" imagery, through this lens we see almost basic necessity - visual language speaking honestly to foundational concepts. It certainly leaves an impression, particularly since ER is sometimes accused of being "too anime" in its imagery, a confluence of "cool high fantasy stuff" with a lot of spinning mid-air fashionable demigods. So, by opposition, this is rather sobering. On another note, I had heard of some alchemical observations before. They were, in comparison to this, rather stripped bare and made to be a tad too distant from what we experience as a player, which is very often put aside because the lore theorist is trying to paint their own picture so they can drive home their point - a necessity when trying to communicate something. I am curious how far it can be integrated in this Jungian manner though. Anyway. It is unfortunate that there are some editing problems that come with sound cutoffs, but this was still a great approach and I do hope its given another go, or taken forward into a second analysis, or anything, really (yes, I must and will check the second part). This is a completely different vein to the other threads which more or less dominate lore theorizing at the moment, so I hope it does not remain obscured. PS: this, of course, put a different spin of thought into my mind about titling the DLC as "Shadow of the Erdtree". And to think that some people argued it was boring and not worthy of a Fromsoft DLC title... Intriguing!
🤗🖤 I did a theological breakdown of the religions represented in the game and then considered the authors and there psychology. It's a lot of fun breaking down the iconography in the symbolism in the game
Most religions were established at a time where there was a much lesser understanding of the human psyche. Not saying that whatever people believe in is wrong, but it certainly is worth questioning. It's okay to question faith, I'd even say it is encouraged.
I absolutely LOVE this!!!! A Jung take on Elden Ring and Marika. MORE of these. I want all the promised videos and more. Im the Batman meme "WHERE ARE THEY!?!?!" (Your mic and editing skills have improved, too) Thank you for this take and long form video
Loved the video, can't wait for more! Just a couple of questions: are you suggesting that Marika has always been the vessel of the Elden Ring? And what kind of relationship would she have with Placidusax?
Much appreciated! I do plan on making many more videos that will further explain these questions but I'll do my best to give a brief answer. According to my findings, yes Marika has always been the vessel of the ER. Just like you are the vessel for your own psyche and consciousness. In the video I state that the ER is the representation of Marika's psyche so it "belongs" to her. It's very hard to explain in this type of forum but hopefully my next videos will help explain this. Regarding Placidusax, this get's a bit tricky. To me, Farum Azula represents a few different things. On a personal side, it represents Marika's self splitting off from her conscious-ego self. It also represents , collectively, the point in time when humanity gained intelligence and consciousness and began to structure society around order. At this early point in human history, we were still operating with our "reptilian" brain which is why it is home to dragons (reptiles) and the Placi is the Elden Lord during this time. I believe that the "god" Placi is waiting for is actually the Elden Beast. If the EB represents Marika's self, which is dominate in a child's psyche, it would make sense that the EB is the god of that time. But because Marika starting repressing parts of herself, thus separating the Self and Ego, the EB was no longer actualized and thus "fled". The rest of the story we know to be Marika rejoining these aspects of herself and the EB once again is actualized. Hope this helps! Thanks for watching!
@@CenteredTarnished Great, thanks for the response. A couple of thing that I think might strengthen this point is that Farum Azula seems to be in a perpetual sunrise, so early life, infancy. While the gloam-eyed queen is associated with the time after sunset, so old age and death. I'm extremely curious to know more; I was just starting to look into connections between jungian psycology and elden ring, so this came at the perfect time!
Yeah, that's a great addition to put in. The shadow of eternal sunrise = eternal sunset. That's great! I'll be sure to give you the credit in the next video! Thank you
Yeah, I'm not sure what happened with that. The video was fine prior to uploading it so I wonder if something happened during that process. It's also my first video like this so I have much to learn!
Hey I love this video honestly you did a great job. But I definitely think that Merika’s Shadow is just Malikeith and the Gloam eyed queen is potentially someone else’s shadow. I’m of the belief that Ranni and Melina are linked. Maybe Melina is the part of Ranni that she despised the golden order part of her self. I think there’s a strong case for Ranni being Melina who is also the gloam eyed queen.
This could be the case but Maliketh's entire purpose is to hold back the GEQ and death so it would have to be some pretty strong evidence to go against that in my opinion. Marika's shadow wouldn't hold back someone else's shadow - that belongs solely to her. Regarding the link between Melina and Ranni, all of the demigods are parts of Marika's split pysche. This is why all the female characters in the game look the same. They are all versions of Marika. I think the way Ranni is portrayed is what has people believing this - that she is half Ranni and half someone else. I don't believe this to be the case. I think Ranni's appearance is split like that just to show that it is her soul inhabiting a doll. I would like to know the evidence you mention for your theory? I could definitely be wrong and am interested to know what makes this theory stand!
@@CenteredTarnished I definitely agree with the Jung allegorys in the lore. I’m honestly really disappointed in myself that I didn’t realize until your video made me aware of it. But also I think you recognizing this has contorted your view of the lore a bit. I think we need a lot more evidence to prove that ALL of the female characters are just aspects of Merika’s psyche. For example how could an aspect of someones ego have their own shadow? As far as the Melina is Ranni theory there is a popular time travel theory that suggest Ranni, Renni, and Melina are the three sisters referenced in Ranni’s quest line. But In this theory the “Three sisters” are actually just different aspects of Ranni which I feel neatly aligns with your Jungian allegory theory. The theory also suggests that Rani can time travel and she essentially goes back in time to stop her self aka Renni from becoming the GEQ. And Melina is the part of Ranni that is the Golden Order that’s the reason she has reddish hair and does golden magic and stuff. Are you aware of this theory? If not I’m sure if you look up Elden Ring time travel theory it’ll inform you a lot more then my comment.
I haven't heard of this theory but I will definitely take a look. I'm not sure why you find it hard to believe that certain characters are aspects of Marika's psyche but you associate several people with Ranni. *_For example how could an aspect of someones ego have their own shadow?_* So, according to Jung, a single person holds within their psyche all of these aspects. When someone develops an ego, they also develop a shadow that is the antithesis of their ego. If you have an ego (which we all do) we must have a shadow. I will be the first to agree that I am struggling seeing anything else but it's all there right in front of us. I'm not adding in time travel or anything like that to make it fit. I didn't even know Jung was a person until the breadcrumbs lead me to him. Since then everywhere you turn - his teachings are there. This time travel theory ties in Renna - someone we never actually meet, and adding in time travel. I'm not saying it's wrong but it seems to be adding in certain elements to make it fit.
@@CenteredTarnished Yeah, thats completely understandable I was a little taken a back by the time travel aspect too. Although given more thought time travel isn't that outlandish especially considering we as the player character partake in it. But the theory also suggest that when Ranni at the end of her questline/game says "we will embark on a 1000 year journey" she is referring to time travel. I don't think its that far fetched the game hints at time being distorted anywyay. Also I defintely think there are diffrent aspect of Merika's psyche but I don't think Melina and Ranni are apart of that it seems they are just another example of fractured minds/beings in the game...
@@codeineskywalka5691 For sure. Time fuckery is definitely a common theme in all FromSoft games and I could see how Ranni could do that in her end game. I guess I don't see the connection to Ranni, Renna and Melina and the GEQ but I will have to read the theory for myself! Either way, I appreciate the conversation and hope you continue watching! In the meantime, i'll check out that theory
Hahah, GREAT video!! I really really agree, it took until minute 36 to convince me! So cool to see you put forward this 1 year ago. Let me ask you; Did you feel strongly about these themes when exactly? @ What point in the game so to speak? - Excellent work. I feel like a lot of the biggest lorevideos are too simplistic, this feels more akin to what is really going on, the abstraction level had not been thoroughly examined, until now.
The elden ring you see in farum azula has nothing to do with Marika. The elden ring existed in the time of the dragons and it was simply different back then. The elden beast is also extremely draconic is shape, hinting at its age.
@@CenteredTarnished for starters (inner) alchemy, kaballah, Neoplatonism etc are all influences on Jung and have clear influence on the mythology and themes of the game.
@@nottwo oh for sure, not to mention Christianity, hermeticism, "kingdom of heaven is within", and many more. I guess during my research, I have yet to find someone who combines all of these aspects as cohesively as Jung and I think this is where my fascination with him started. If it was just about the shadow integration or alchemy, I could see your point but Jung had a firm grasp on all the things we see in game. I think it's kind of like saying "Einstein was just heavily influenced by Newton so don't give him too much credit as he got it from somewhere else."
What if I told you GoldMask represents you the player, the one who studies lore of elden ring incessantly, combing every detail, yet missing that critical piece of information: That Melina IS both Marika and Ranni. Melina, who has the gold eye of Marika, the Gloam Eye of Ranni. The one who casts ancient Erdtree spells but fights like a black knife assassin. What if it wasn't just Ranni's body that got split, but also her soul. One half of her soul taken and merged with part of Marika, giving birth to her new form at the Erdtree.
I would say it's an interesting thought but am not sure it holds up to scrutiny. Let's think about it and see. 1) GoldMask is only interested in the Golden Order lore so he already only get's part of the picture - an already very skewed picture. 2) I would say if the player character is represented by someone combing through the lore, it would have to be Gideon as he seems to have an understanding of almost everything. 3) The FF ending is clearly a resurrection of the Gloam-Eyed Queen and Destined Death which we only just set free after defeating Maliketh. Ranni did steal a piece of DD but if she was the GEQ, she would have the power of the entire rune not have to steal a scrap of it. 4) I'm not sure why fighting like a black knife assassin is something associated with Ranni as we never see her even move outside the ending. 5) I think it's a stretch to say her body and soul were split between various things with no supporting evidence. It makes much more sense that Melina is a projection of Marika's ego-conscious psyche (golden) and her other shadow-unconscious side (GEQ). Don't have to really make what if's or grasp at things. It explains everything very nicely. I like theories and don't like shooting them down, but they do have to hold up to some critical analysis.
@@CenteredTarnished 1 & 2) missing my point of "lore searching is missing the key ingredient of this person is two people is the final puzzle piece. Obv. people can identify with whichever character suits them 3) GEQ doesn't have power of death rune if it's taken from her by Malaketh 4) Ranni literally was friends w/ the assassin's & their people and their theology of anti GO+pro star worship, and worked with the assassins specifically, it's very possible she got their fighting style as well. 5) it is a theory can't argue that but it's definitely possible.
Yes this is definitely possible and I don’t want to sound like I’m saying otherwise. Let’s take 1&2 off the table. 3) there’s an incredible amount of evidence connecting the Rune of Death and the GEQ. Just like we can kill Radhan and take his Great Rune, I would assume the same is true with her. 4) I would agree the Ranni and the Nox have similar motives and interest but it’s a stretch to say they were friends or she got her fighting style from them with nothing to support that claim. Unless I’m missing something, I don’t recall there being anything in game that says Ranni and Nokron are connected somehow. To be fair, everything that’s not the GO has those same motives. Let’s assume that she was friends with the assassins, she trapped their leader in an evergaol. This to me seems like she used them to get what she wanted. Also, everything about the GEQ and black flame involve faith not INT so I still don’t see why Ranni has anything to do with the GEQ. If your connecting them via the eye thing, damn near every female character in FromSoft games has something strange about their eyes
Not quite. They are actually the same person: marika represents the ego and GEQ represents the shadow side. 2 sides of the same coin. You can think of it like Dr Jakyell and Mr Hyde.
So to say, when you are born, before you are conscious, you are a beast. An intelligent beast which can learn culture & language through exposure, but a beast nonetheless. The greater will guides you to becoming a person, & it was through the greater will that your existence could even come to be- collectively we know a mother cares for her young, we want mothers to care for their children, & if they didn’t, they’d die. The elden beast is not just the self but a baby because babies are as close as we humans get to animals, i’m saying! (This might be why giving birth & the snake stuff is blasphemous, not being formed whole from a tree) Anyhow, is there something to those big aqueducts/ the blackstone civilization here? Such as that, in order to exist, you must exist physically in a world that already exists? You can’t be born into an empty void & live, so there is always a world around you that pre dates your ability to comprehend it?
Ah! Frenzied flame! I saw a great video exploring the existentialist views in elden ring. The frenzied flame says more about nihilism & existence than psychology or jung. It’s about whether existence is good & deserves to go on. Since the greater will is the ultimate desire of all in existence, & everyone personally wants to live, the flame is opposed to, or sees a grand flaw in the greater will. The flame believes existence is not good enough to account for all the suffering it entails, & suffering would be eradicated if everything was eradicated. Perhaps they are called ‘outer gods’ because they are ideas Marika has been exposed to but does not believe in, take on, integrate, or really care about at all. Things she doesn’t need to hide in her shadow because they’re not even part of her
Some nice ideas but, considering that some of fundamental concepts contradict the lore (eg. Placidusax being Elden lord and the fact that the golden order actively fought the ancient dragons, meaning a) that they had to have had an Elden Ring (in order to be Elden lord) and b) Marika cannot have been the god of that age (as the order she created fought them), therefore the Elden Ring cannot be Marika's consciousness (as it predates her rise to godhood)) the basis of the ideas in the video, while interesting and eloquently expressed, are essentially pure conjecture with the only evidence being cherry picked to support it and all contrary evidence ignored. I don't want to be a douche, but I think that some concepts are being read into too much and that, if left unchecked and undisputed, it's only going to take the community further away from the ideas the creators had. All being said, I don't deny that Jungian philosophy had an influence on the creators but that, much like a roarshack
I'm not sure what contrary evidence you are talking about. Can you explain further. I don't see why Placi being Elden Lord and the GO fighting dragons disproves my theory. Can you also comment on what ideas the creators had.... I wasn't aware someone figured it out
Fia is Marikas “other” self. That she cut off. This would explain how she was able to conceive so many unwanted children that are below the Capital. Melina is her own character entirely and is the daughter of Godfrey and Godwyn only whole sister. lol you doing a lot of reaching with this Jung stuff. It’s obvious that Fia is Marika. The symbolism is there when you see her next to the Painting at the round table. Melina has to return to the tree by burning so Fia/Marika can birth her again “at the roots of the Erdtree” Death Prince Throne DuskBorn ending
The Fingers created Maliketh to kill Melina because she was the greatest threat to the Greater Will. Marika obviously does not want to be a slave to the Elden Ring. Melina is the Gloom Eyed Queen and lives to slay Gods. So The Fingers created Melina’s Shadow, Maliketh to kill her and seal death. The ONLY part of your WHOLE theory that is correct is Radagon is Marika. Everything else can be debunked by the characters in-game telling you who they are and how they are related to Marika.
this has been great except for all of the cuf audio randomly, and the LOL moment of you connecting "rioting" to "justice" LOL. these are antithesises of eachother. one is an aspect to violence, hatred, and lawlessness. the other is that of virtue, order, and peace.
@TheCenteredTarnished I can't remember exactly but my assumption was you were probably saying how the rioting for "Social justice" wad a good thing. I disagree vehemently as anytime you use a qualifier word like social before a word then you can 100% believe than that new thing doesn't represent the other. Social justice is not justice, and things Social engineering is not engineering.
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I do like how you identify Blaidd as a positive Shadow. People do not only repress their anti-social qualities, but ones they fear they cannot express safely as they make them vulnerable. If I recall properly, Blaidd only becomes hostile only after Ranni accepts the Tarnished as their consort which requires her to express those qualities again. Thus her shadow had no further purpose to her and needed to be released from form.
A study of Ranni as the Dark Mother archetype would be very interesting.
Man Im so glad I finally found someone making the connection between Jung and Miyazaki's games. I have always suspected this since the split between Laurence and Willem made me think of the split between Jung and Freud. Great work
I think you'll like this lore analysis of Ludwig and Laurence:
th-cam.com/video/gRoJ968BePM/w-d-xo.html
Loved how you overlayed shots of Malekith and Serosh when talking about the Shadow self… so on the nose I felt stupid for not noticing it myself. And Godfrey finally shedding his “noble” ego self to be Horah Loux, the violent Shadow self that he needed a literal beast-regent grafted onto him to suppress, adds such a deep new layer to his otherwise very campy sumo-wrestler boss battle 😂 guy kept that side of himself bottled up for so long he had to kill his observer/consciousness to unlock it again.
Most stories touch on at least some aspects of Jung's work but I've always found From's games to be some of the most consciously Jungian works out there. I've been waiting for a video like this for almost a year, as most lore videos tend to only concentrate on the events and characters within the world without delving into the meaning behind them that Miyazaki/From were trying to convey, despite the fact that interpreting meaning can make certain events and characters make more sense. I'm mainly referring to Melina, as I was previously thinking of her more as an earlier child of Marika that had been stricken from history akin to Gwyn's firstborn. But now I'm seeing her more as a part of her shadow that she either couldn't quite lock away, or is perhaps seeping back out. Still I find it strange that she is so eager to sacrifice herself, but maybe that is reflective of Marika's desire to be rid of that aspect of herself?
Sorry for rambling, but this video really got my mind racing. Needless to say I'm looking forward to your follow up videos on more of the specifics. You got a sub from me 👍
Melina has to return to the tree so she can be reborn again with her purpose as Destined Death. This is why you have to complete the The Rune of Death and finish Fia/Marikas quest line so she can birth Melina again at the roots of the Erdtree. Melina will definitely want to avenge her brother Godwyn when she remembers who she is 😂
Godwyn and Melina are Godfrey’s kids. The ONLY duality is Radagon and Marika, everything else in this video is reaching. Marika NEVER sent Maliketh to kill Melina.. that was the Fingers
Marika is trying to get free from the Elden Beast and is done being a sex slave/incubator giving birth to a bunch of abominations. Just to keep feeding the tree/Elden Beast
Melina definitely would have been able to free her mother. When the fingers had her daughter killed with Maliketh (who is Melina’s shadow, much like Blaid was for Ranni. I do agree there is some duality) that’s why he is stuck eating death, his sin was that he killed his own being (Melina)
This is why Melina keeps saying “I was born at the foot of the Erdtree” Godwyn shares their father’s (Godfrey’s) blood. So she can be born again, and return death to the lands between indiscriminate
@@BossFight101lolwut 😂
18:50 you might be right on this,Pope Miriel talks about how all things even opposite converge on one another when you encounter him.
Think of it less like FromSoft was intentionally trying to depict Jung's theories, and more like, Jung was so right, he was onto something so deep and true that it is structural to human experience... such that you are going to find evidence of this structure in any piece of art which is moving enough to inspire examination of this kind.
Under any other circumstance, I would agree with this assumption. However, there are several things that FromSoft does that make me think that they based this directly off of Jung’s theories and not so much that they simply apply. The use of the term “shadow”, the fact the Marika and Radagon are the same person, the steps of individuation and the changing color of the erdtree are just to name a few. It’s true that in most mass consumed media Jung’s concepts apply but I haven’t seen another case where his concepts literally come to life as they do in Elden Ring.
@@CenteredTarnished are you familiar with the influence of the manga Berserk on Elden Ring? A lot of people find Berserk also exemplifies the mechanics described by Jung. Besides the fact that Jung is immensely influential and ingenious in general, that may be where the interest started for Miyazaki.
@@lorenfulghum2393 I have heard of Berserk but have yet to dive into it. I definitely want to now!
@@CenteredTarnished oh man, do yourself a favor and start by watching the 97 anime of the main story arc... It's one of the best stories ever created.
th-cam.com/video/opEshfYQHcE/w-d-xo.html
@@lorenfulghum2393 haha I actually had this pulled up on another tab and was going to start watching it tonight! Thanks
How the fuck do you only have 900 followers. I love these videos i randomly stumble upon waiting for dlc news
Regarding the Elden Beast: its nervous system is suspiciously similar to amber starlight, suggesting a measure of external influence. I also find it relevant to the discussion of psychology that "Seluvis" (a character who both creates the amber draught to control Ranni and is implied to be a puppet himself) can be broken into "Selu" and "Vis" and translated to read as "Self face".
Also notable that "Oridys" tower (found near an isolated group of gravity mages) can be broken down as the Yoruba word "Ori-" = "head (refering to one's spiritual intuition and destiny)" and the Greek-based "dys" = "abnormal/bad/impaired". So the tower associated with gravity is called "head bad tower", or "tower of the abnormal spiritual destiny". Recalling that gravity magic is shown as a current - the next leap in logic would indicate that things associated with gravity magic are in opposition to the Primeval Current.
Hmm very interesting..... I haven't really looked too deep into Seluvis' questilne but this is a great find. Do you think that the purpose of the potion is to stop her from "rebelling" against the current status quo? It would make sense if that is the case with your findings of Seluvis being an extension of the Self.
I'm not really sure what to make of the Ordiys' tower. Another really great find but I am not sure why do you associate gravity with the opposition of the Primeval Current? To me it would be more in opposition to the Golden Order/ Erdtree faith. Could you explain further?
@@CenteredTarnished For the amber potion - there is a video by Hawkshaw that summarizes colour associations in the game. He speculates that "amber" is the colour of rebirth based on Renala's amber egg, but I think it's more accurate that amber represents stagnation, like a fly caught in amber. Renala is caught in a loop and unable to do anything effective. Seluvis similarly intends to use the amber draught to keep Ranni from progressing her plans.
For gravity magic, there are scattered hints - if it is assumed that something about Ranni's ending makes it more of a "true end" than the others. Sorceress Sellen is shown to be studying primeval sorcery and part of her questline is transposing her soul to a new body. Ranni similarly transfers her soul from one body to another, which would imply association with primeval sorcery. For Ranni's ending to be possible, Radahn needs to be defeated to make the stars move again, and Radahn stopped the stars with gravity magic. A direct opposition.
The part about gravity magic being a current was from a SmoughTown video "Astel and Cosmic Mysteries" which went through the evidence that gravity magic is associated with electromagnetism. It caught my attention because the video noted that electromagnetism is a "flow of charged particles", but did not make the connection that this is the definition of "electrical current".
Falling star beasts, gravity stone, Onyx and Alabaster Lords - all things associated with gravity magic exclusively arrive with meteors from space. Compare to the Crystalian's who "cleave close to the Primeval Current" and "yearn for the return of their creator who will carve for them new brethren." The Crystalians are associated with the glintstone, which propogates abundantly in Liurnia.
To further your point about gravity magic running counter to the Primeval Current, I would like to mention the part in Ranni's questline about killing Radhan. Since Radhan is using his gravity magic to hold stars and as mentioned in game, fate, still it is possible that the Primeval Current is fate moving forward. This could also be why Lusat and Azure could only look into the current once, as the fate written in the stars was too much for them to handle similar to how Corhyn and other prophets blind themselves after glimpsing a future where the Erdtree burns.
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24:48 I think making a statement that “the entire game is x” is a bit bold.
I do, however, think it would be fair to say something like “because we can assume elden ring pulls inspiration from Jung’s work, we could also use elden ring to depict collective unconsciousness”
I just think it’s likely that there would be multiple inspirations for the world of elden ring, not just jung or alchemy or botany or irl history etc.
Great video!
Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I agree it most certainly takes inspirations from many different things. I'll keep that in mind in future videos!
This video has so many good ideas, wow. I really liked your take on "Numen" being a phonetic iteration of "Neumann", and your idea of the glass sound design of the Elden Beast representing the shattering of Marika's psyche.
This is one of the most interesting and contemplative takes on the game I've seen. I hope channels like yours and tarnished archeologist continue making videos as they offer a much deeper introspection. I think you and Quelagg would have a lot to talk about.
You are soooooo gullible
Great Work! Your studies have served you well. One of the better looks into The Foundation of Elden Ring. I am Old Dark Souls Lore guy and looked at Miyazaki's work through that lens and this production has really opened my eyes a bit wider. Excellent presentation, subscription added. Thanks for all your time!
this video just explained the whole story of the game unlike any other one I've seen on TH-cam
if the DLC or ER2 doesn't end just like what's down here, I'll be baffled, bamboozled even
Within this framework would it be safe to say that the tarnished are thoughts or feelings Marika had that are interacting with aspects of her self being? Similar to aging or even dementia? Or even more radical, a mind altering psychoactive/psychedelic agent? Fun to think about.This is just a quick off the cuff reflex thought.
31:51 everytime i see this statue it reminds me of the 3 wolves laying outside of Ranni's Rise
Same!
I have a question. Do you believe that the Tarnished Archeologist's theory of civilizational strata can be applied to your lore application of Jungian psychology? If so, how do you think the archological/historical perspective of the world of Elden Ring can complement the Jungian perspective and vice versa? Lastly, do you think a philosophical/theological perspective of Elden Ring has any place to benefit comprehension when the Jungian view explains so much of the lore as is, or do you think it only serves to benefit discussion apart from explaining the thought processes behind the lore?
This is a great comment. I would like to know Centered Tarnished’s thoughts on this too.
Perhaps the past civilizations represent the historical context into which we are born. There’s a history to the world when we come into it, full of traditions, which we learn as we develop?
As for philosophical & theological interpretations, they’re probably just as valid & important as this psychological one. There might be many levels on which the game is true, & a fact might mean one thing theologically & another psychologically
Ive been trying to tell people this in lore commentary but people dont know what im talking about! And the Shadow of the Erdtree DLC seem to support this. Also, its worth noting that Miyazaki has always used Jungian and Alchemical themes. In the Bloodborne community it is known that there is a parallel between the schism betweem Willem and Laurence and Frued and Jung.
This is my first encounter with your stuff. Can watch your other stuff!
Edit: Its pretty apparent that the DLC is going to take place in the large body of water in the center of the map. Jung identifies bodies of water as a symbol of the unconscious. Aldo the tree is draped in the same linen covering that Marika's bedchamber is which suggests dreams which Jung identified as when the veil is thinnest between the conscious and the unconcious. Miquella who is the god of sleep dwells in this shadow land and was likely the original owner of torrent. Everything spectral like summons and Torrent mirror the visuals of this land with those spectral gravestones.
Other random thoughts:
1. Blaidd was called Ranni's shadow
2. Radagon and Marika being the same person seem to suggest anima and animus; hermes and aphrodites; hermaphrodite.
3. Marika apparently is a Numen. I remember numen being a term Jung used. I'll have to review it.
4. A frequent alchemical image is the dragon being replaced by a lion after its head is hewn off. Placidussax was the first Elden Lord and he was replaced by Godfrey the Lion.
5. Gold themes are used excessively. Which paired with the alchemical interpretation makes a lot of sense as the philosophers stone was supposed to turn lead to gold or your soul enlightened.
Man, thank you so much for the video. I keep on the vein of Elden Ring lore community and I always feel like most of the main parts of the symbolism, references, meaning and backstory have already been explored, yet I am again and again swept away by yet another hour long breakdown of another layer of meaning I had no idea was there; wink, wink.
Thank you also for taking the time to explain Jung's theories. One thing I appriciate the souls-borne games for is that by exploring the meaning behind them, you also learn more about yourself.
Thanks again for this video - I await more.
haha I know exactly what you mean; wink, wink. Thank you for the love and more to come!
Lovely video. Are you familiar with Quelaag’s channel? She talks a lot about philosophical and religious concepts in ER. She’s very thorough, almost to the point of it feeling like a lecture lol. But my impression from her work is that the game is not just influenced by Jung, but also many other works that predate and follow his. I highly recommend 😋
Awesome video! I've played ER for 3 weeks now and can't seem to put it down. Excellent application of Jungian depth-analysis, I loved it! I would like to add one reason of us slaying the Elden Beast could be that we are in fact slaying the Ego of Marika that has been wholly swallowed by her shadow consisting of The All Encompassing Mother - Obsessed with order and represses any uncomfortable truths such as death (as you yourself pointed out) for her children. Only when the All Encompassing has been slain can a new order be enacted, and thus can her children truly live their own lives.
As for myself, I was making ties with Lacanian Psychoanalysis with the Great Order representing The Obsessive in the culturally "masculine" and "feminine" pathologies of obsessiveness and hysteria. In the lands between, the hysteric (Marika) has chosen to live through her obsessive projection (Radagon) and thus repressed her own individual. Through this, the only remaining part of her, her "husk" through the elden beast, is a stomring entity so conflicted between obsessiveness through Radagon (a strengthening of the constructed ego) and her hysteria (through not acting within the world, being made void as she lives through her children and not as an individual) as The All-encompassing mother.
Indeed, all of the inhabitants are striving towards order in the lands between, although i would argue that the issue isn't disorder rather than a stale stagnation that is perpetuated by the demi-gods destroying the lands. Thus, replacing one obsession (the golden order, the tree etc) with another "order" or "age" would inevitably lead to the same stagnation. The Omen and the Crucible is overlooked as it is the representation of "disorder" - but in my view might have been a healthy one; disordered enough to produce variation and perpetuate dialectics, but ordered enough for individuals to be born.
ER truly paints up the picture of the concept of the split self - from carrying themes of difference and repetitions (Deleuze). Order tends to swallow and territorialize disorder and integrate it within the order - and when it can't (as is the case of the Omens), it dispenses of them through sheer might. Thus Order breaks the Eternal Recurrence of ever "becoming" - nothing in the lands between ever "become" as nothing differentiates through the soup of likeness that is. Indeed, mobs are positioned exactly the same, and all souls amalgamate at the erdtree. The only thing that consist of some form of difference are the Omens and potentially the Tarnished, both reviled by the Order. Ironically, the frenzied flame also strives to break "becoming" by disintegrating all difference.
I could write a whole lot more on this subject, but it was just some thoughts on the back of my head from my playthrough. But again, Awesome video! :)
Wow, this is an incredibly deep reply that may take some time to fully digest haha! You are the second person to mention Lacanian psychoanalysis so there must be something to it and I need to check it out for sure. Join my discord so we can chat further! To much to go over in the comment section :)
Either way, thanks for watching and for the kind words!
@@CenteredTarnished Sadly I do not know much more about Jungian analysis than the average layman, but as a clinical psychologist i have dabbled a bit in psychoanalysis and find it extremely interesting. I am not that knowledgeable on the topic though, still forever learning! :)
One thing i also forgot to mention is the concept of Peur Aeternus and how it relates to Miquella. Miquella, being the eternal child on its path to becoming, is halted and cocooned much like the "NEET shut-in" that is provisionally living his life in waiting for some form of transformation. Living in the realm of ideas and dreams rather than reality, the Peur (and Miquella) is slumbering and admired for his wisdom and potential, but his actions of becoming his potential are nowhere to be seen. Doomed to ever be a child, the peur will become lost in his slumber and live through it as his body grows old, and the youthfulness he once had might grow into a form of helplessness at best and rejection of aspects of reality leading to psychosis (in the psychoanalytical sense) at worst.
And I'll be sure to check out your discord! Ill just be referring to Bruce Finks "Clinical introduction to lacanian psychoanalysis" for the interested. It doesn't delve too deep into theory, and if you are familiar with analytic concepts like repression and neurosis it's definitely worth a read. It is quite different from Jungian theory, although esotericism is always fun hehe. Besides, theory in general and psychology in specific tend to talk about the same thing but capture them in different concepts to illuminate different aspects of it.
@@brorium YES SIR!!! We are on the same page with many of these concepts and the way they tie into Elden Ring. Jung has a total of 12 archetypes and I believe they all tie into the demigods. I'm having difficulty staying disciplined and staying focused on one topic due to the sheer amount of psychology is in this game. Give me a shout when you join the discord, I would love to get your thoughts on a few things!
This is a really cool theory. But there is only one problem bucko, in a 2018 lecture, renowned psychologist Roland Amundsen proved that postmodernism (and therefore Lacan) is just marxisim with extra steps. I’m sure you agree. Anyways…
#IDontLikeTheDevil
3 minutes in: marika is both ego and mother archetype... man jung is rolling in his grave.
Ya know I really WANT to watch smoughtown but something about his droning and lack of direction deters me every time. This is much more definitive to follow with hard points to ‘anchor’ my thoughts to. Presentation is everything
this just makes everything click into place in Elden Ring for me thank you for this great work
Thank you for watching. More to come soon.
Can't believe I've only found your channel now. This is exactly what I've been looking for. Thank you.
Top tier lore video, the game really does seem to be about human psychology and different aspects of the psyche and the self, I feel like youre in the right track and am looking forward to the other parts
Thank you! More coming soon
EVERY story is "about" human psychology
the AI stuff is a big stretch. Those aren't generated by anything using conscious thought, they're just an aggregate of human images that have been uploaded with the tag "consciousness"
Yeah, you're not the only one with that comment. I thought it added a nice touch but seems like they aren't really a source so I will refrain from using them in the future.
@@CenteredTarnished it is fun to see the output of these models, but unfortunately the way people currently approach them is mentally unsound. People talk to character AI and see a human mind when in truth none of these systems are even remotely close to that level yet. Don't let yourself fall into the trap of humanizing your toys. :p
@@ZomgLolPants I actually never knew how they worked. It's really interesting to see what it spits out but you're right.
Really enjoyed this take on the lore and concept of the game. My only criticism would be that the audio cuts out/off at critical moments, particularly when you're making a point about a given concept, which completely detracts from any conclusion you were trying to purvey. I would love to watch this again once it is whole, and hope you have the same love for your work that you clearly have the the lore of Elden Ring to make it so.
only 10 minutes in so far and thoroughly enjoying this video, liked and subscribed before watching the remainder !
INCREDIBLE THOUGHTS HERE!!! My whole friend group just watched and discussed this, we're subbed and ready for more man. This is fantastic work!
Thanks so much! More coming soon! Glad you all enjoyed it.
Intriguing thought process. I look forward to what more you might bring to light. 😊
Stay tuned! I'm finishing the script for the next video. Thanks for watching
Marika's stone-like appearance and Jung's description of the Ego as "something small and hard, like a stone" is, in my opinion, in no way "confirmation that the game is indeed heavily influenced on Jung's research, and that Queen Marika represents the Ego."
I think it's a huge leap to reach that assumption.
I appreciate your comment but am going to push you on your feedback. Can you explain why you feel this way? Is there evidence supporting another reason for her stone-like appearance? Do you agree with the other Jungian connections? If so, why is it this one that you don't accept?
I could definitely be wrong and am not married to this idea but am curious why you choose that one thing.
@@CenteredTarnished I don't outright disagree with the theory, and I definitely don't know enough about the subject to try and prove or disprove it either way. I guess maybe the certainty of the statement made me bristle- the way this game is, it's already hard enough to feel confident in even the most basic assumptions about the lore and the themes, at least for me. So it sounded at first like you were saying that one connection was absolute proof that Miyazaki specifically designed the game with all of these Jungian concepts in mind. But to be fair, you did say it was "another" confirmation of those influences, not THE confirmation that the whole theory is correct.
I really don't have a better explanation for Marika's appearance. I kind of like the idea that the gods are literally born of the Erdtree somehow, and that they're not made of stone but of wood. But I know there's no evidence for that.
@@Galamoth06 thank you for responding!! Dude, I have no idea if I am even close to right haha. I'm just a guy that is following the evidence the best I can. I didn't even know who Carl Jung was 6 months ago so I am by know means an expert or trying to say this is how it is. I still have a lot of work to do in presenting my opinions and honestly your feedback is really important. Too many times people hear one thing they don't like and immediately condemn the entire thing. I am really happy you responded with your feedback. What I can say is that since I have explored this psychological framework, a lot of things are making more sense. I have read 4 books by Jung - not an easy task lol - and am slowly but surely understanding it better. I hope you continue watching and continue providing feedback. Someone calling B.S. is just as important as someone saying this is great. Together, hopefully we can figure this fucking thing out. All I ask is that if someone does disagree, they provide a reason why. Figuring this game out will undoubtedly require some crazy stretching - as is the way with Miyazaki. I mean if you look at current lore videos of his past games, DS1, BB, etc they are getting 100's of thousands of views because we still haven't figured those out and it's been a decade! Either way, I genuinely appreciate the comments and the fact that you took the time to watch. Hope to see you in the next one!
@@CenteredTarnished Man, I've been wracking my brain over this game for over a year now and I'm no closer to understanding than I was when I started. I've seen so many lore videos from so many creators, spent hours reading comments and theories. Sometimes I really do think it's uninterpretable. Either they set out to make the most believable yet confusing mess of disconnected lore that never made sense in the first place, or so many things had to be changed or cut in development that the narrative fell apart along the way.
For instance, Dark Souls 3 apparently had a much different story than the one that ended up releasing, with characters shuffled around and plot points completely removed. I've always wanted to see what the original, unaltered, ideal vision for these games would have been, and it makes me wonder if Elden Ring might have at one point been a very different game.
But, Miyazaki has said there is a proper timeline of events, just that he doesn't intend on enforcing it on anybody- so like all his past games we'll probably just never know for sure. Which is infuriating, but at the same time is probably why I haven't given up trying to piece it together yet.
Did you know Hoarah Loux was originally Goldmask's name? Who knows what that could have implied... And that's just one tiny rabbit hole
Thank you for staying so focused, so clear, and sticking to psychodynamics and Jungian psychology as opposed to jumping topics or philosophizing
As far as lore explanation videos go, I think this is one of the best ones I've seen, stay awesome!
I have been searching for someone to articulate these ideas and wow! You knocked it out of the park and opened my mind even more. Incredible sir!
your videos are so good! I find it really hard to take all of the story of the game as literal and this perspective is perfect as an allegorical narrative just as the myths of yore
this is my journey into your videoes,and my god i have been diving into elden ring's lore for two years and this concept of consensuses getting power is one that was lost to me this first self as like Adam that formed this first person to harbor these quilts of going against nature (also QMC being Markia being Melina blew my mind) i wanted to thank you for analyzing this work through the lens of psychology and personifying ,i also think the dark soul of the Dark souls series was the very similarities but here it is very deeply person about one person and their fate
Thank you so much for this video! Subbed and looking forward to more.
It's quite interesting that our brains are shaped like trees, with the roots (root chakra too!) and stem and everything! But erdtree type trees, not conifers ( that's the coneheads' brains!). This visualization helps me see the lore in a whole new way. I think hinduism is also a big influence on the game and Jung himself. A lot of psychologists are influenced by Kabbalism and Ancient Mystery Schools, where alchemy and hermiticism sprang from.
Hey man, just getting started with your stuff; found you via Ratatoskr and Crunchy. Anyway, maybe you go on to say as much, but have you read psychiatrist Iain McGilchrist's The Master and His Emissary?
I have not. Assuming it's worth a read?
@@CenteredTarnished Absolutely-was a life-changing read for me. It's an analysis of the actual functional differences between the left and the right hemispheres (rather than the pop psych nonsense about one side being "creative" and the other "logical"). The first half of the book explains how the right hemisphere is the "Master" in that it has a broader, more open view of the world and gathers context, while the left hemisphere is the "Emissary", which focuses more narrowly and precisely.
One of the most helpful analogies he uses is a bird searching for tiny bits of food amid grass; the bird uses its left eye (controlled by the right hemisphere) to keep a look out for dangers in its environment while its right eye (left hemisphere) simultaneously searches the ground for bits of food. McGilchrist also talks about studies of "split-brain" patients whose hemispheres can be studied independently.
The second half of the book analyzes the history of Western art and civilization in light of these findings. McGilchrist's process is very similar to what you're doing here. Highly recommend you check it out: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_His_Emissary
I'm curious as to why no one seems to comment on the intermittent cuts in audio.
I definitely agree that a lot of game's lore could well be based off these psychological concepts, but I don't think that has to mean that the world is literally inside Marika's mind, that feels like you're trying to force the psychology aspect too hard. I think it's more interesting, and easier to believe, that the Land's Between is a real physical place in-universe, it just happens to be reflecting Marika's inner struggles, perhaps because of how much influence she has had over it.
Phenomenal video. The TH-cam recommendations came through big time for me here.
Liked, subbed, and looking forward to diving into your inner world playthrough.
Do you think there may be a connection to the primeval current and collective conscience? Sellen and the graven talismans seemed to be made of fused souls. IMO Sellen’s question is similar to the Frenzy flame where the goal is to return Life to a singularity but Sellen was more like trying to tap into a infinity or abyss, maybe she was trying to tap into like a collective unconscious and it distorted and fused her soul with others who presumably did the same.
TBH I'm not that familiar with Sellen's questline. I have done it but a while ago so I need to revisit it to make a more confident assessment of it. Here is what I can take a stab at however. To me, I would say the graven talisman depicts the collective conscious of those sorcerers. I believe what the game is saying is that when you have a one-tracked mind or obsession and leave all else behind, you get consumed by it. And when this happens to a group of people, your individuality get's lost and you become part of this echo chamber or hive mind where your individual voice is lost. Just as things like religion can become dogmatic, so can science. I believe this to be another example of just how important balance in one's life is - an Miyazaki seems love this concept as well. Not 100% sure on this but it certainly fits the narrative of the game and human development. Hope this helps!
Hmm good video.
Though I don’t think your right about everything and are maybe putting the Jungian concept into too much of everything I do still think this is an interesting video.
You watch some of smoughtown’s elden ring videos they are good stuff and this one video I watched earlier today called elden ring lore: sex, rebirth and false gods.
I recommend these to expand of the lore knowledge for your future elden ring videos.
Hope they help.
Honestly, great video. It gave me a lot to think about. I definitely think your theories are way off track (at least in regard to the literal interpretation of events), but I enjoy them nonetheless.
I suppose that makes the Lands Between the consciousness and the stars are the real world. Outer gods would then be ideas that invade the mind, and the Badlands are akin to subconscious, making tarnished self reflections that were repressed and dredged back up to confront a state of crisis.
I actually haven't made the connection of the subconscious being the Badlands - that makes sense however. As the subconscious mind contains information that is stored when the conscious mind gets overload and wants to preserve for later use. i.e. Godfrey and the tarnished. I'm curious why you make the connection of the stars and real world? Regarding the outer gods, you nailed it! They would represent psychological pathologies such as addiction, obsession, depression, etc. Things that quickly take over and consume someone's thoughts.
@@CenteredTarnished My theory is that we see the stars depicted as controlling fate and their motion controls causality. So when Radahn stills them, the state of the Lands Between is preserved at the cost of shutting off any external influences. Much like one might close themselves off from the world when they are afraid. And it does seem that fear is the response we see given the reactions to malformed stars and the primeval current.
I like that interpretation! I always saw the stars and primeval current as scientific advancement - something that the early church (which Marika clearly associated with) is deathly afraid of. It's cold, godless, and has no need for a "god". Radahn would represent that piece of Marika's psyche that is desperate to keep that spread of science at bay - assumingly the strongest part of her since Radahn is the most powerful demigod- showing just how fearful she is of a godless science. Interesting that Radahn ends up using science (gravity magic) to save his friend/ horse. It's like the modern day version of someone who prays AND receives medicine for an illness. A contradiction of beliefs.
absolutely mindblown. in awe of your work!
Your analysis has earned my like and sub! I love this level of interpretation.
Much appreciated and more to come!
Incredible intro, & another sincere dive into “what is going on”
Jst watched ur vid on “the possible Gloam Eyed Queen” (not the title; recent vid)
Your theory there went from “pretty cool” to genuine implications that you strongly substantiated
Now seeing your vids from a little while ago
-gotta hand it to you m8, you make strong arguments.
Glad I ran across this channel; needed another “hat in the ring”
Don’t know why I’ve not seen ur vids till now-but nicely done sir
Great video. I didn't play the game and as a psychologist who is tend to behaviorist approaches, I loved it. Thanks to your passionate perseverance required for this video.
To get praise from a psychologist means a great deal to me. Thank you very much for your kind words.
You should absolutely explore the game for yourself if you ever get the chance!
Only 87 subs with this insanely amazing video??? Holy f*ck. Well you have my sub! This must have been the best analysis video of elden ring so far and I've watched a LOT!
Wow, thanks!
Only bad parts were when the sound cut off for some reason at some points in the video, but it was good anyway :)
It was a labor of love for sure. Thank you for the kind comment and for the Sub! More to come soon
@@Filip-_-._. haha yeah, I still have a lot to learn about making and editing videos
Shadow is DLC...
even the name is Shadow of Erd tree..
and the things we know now!
*GOD DEFEATED*
"God is dead, he remains dead, and we are the ones who killed him." -Frederick Nietzche
Yo I messed up.... I’ve been saying marika is like subconscious of the mind... but ego seems a lot more fitting.... she’s the ego saying it’s time for a change.... doesn’t matter how... for better or worse things need to change...
I just recently happened to catch Centered live and realized I still hadn't watched this video and so did not really know what lens was being used to view ER from. I am a bit perplexed at how fitting not only some overarching aspects are, but the individual imagery and cutscene direction is as well. While most people would say the plunging and resurfacing of Radagon, or Serosh's gory death, are just "cool" imagery, through this lens we see almost basic necessity - visual language speaking honestly to foundational concepts. It certainly leaves an impression, particularly since ER is sometimes accused of being "too anime" in its imagery, a confluence of "cool high fantasy stuff" with a lot of spinning mid-air fashionable demigods. So, by opposition, this is rather sobering.
On another note, I had heard of some alchemical observations before. They were, in comparison to this, rather stripped bare and made to be a tad too distant from what we experience as a player, which is very often put aside because the lore theorist is trying to paint their own picture so they can drive home their point - a necessity when trying to communicate something. I am curious how far it can be integrated in this Jungian manner though.
Anyway. It is unfortunate that there are some editing problems that come with sound cutoffs, but this was still a great approach and I do hope its given another go, or taken forward into a second analysis, or anything, really (yes, I must and will check the second part). This is a completely different vein to the other threads which more or less dominate lore theorizing at the moment, so I hope it does not remain obscured.
PS: this, of course, put a different spin of thought into my mind about titling the DLC as "Shadow of the Erdtree". And to think that some people argued it was boring and not worthy of a Fromsoft DLC title... Intriguing!
🤗🖤 I did a theological breakdown of the religions represented in the game and then considered the authors and there psychology. It's a lot of fun breaking down the iconography in the symbolism in the game
Most religions were established at a time where there was a much lesser understanding of the human psyche.
Not saying that whatever people believe in is wrong, but it certainly is worth questioning.
It's okay to question faith, I'd even say it is encouraged.
As a lore "nerd". Im 12 min in and I'm pretty sure I'm already making the connections, this is fascinating.
🤦♂️
I absolutely LOVE this!!!! A Jung take on Elden Ring and Marika. MORE of these. I want all the promised videos and more. Im the Batman meme "WHERE ARE THEY!?!?!"
(Your mic and editing skills have improved, too)
Thank you for this take and long form video
The Frenzy flame probably represent frenzy.. full blown neurosis
Loved the video, can't wait for more!
Just a couple of questions: are you suggesting that Marika has always been the vessel of the Elden Ring? And what kind of relationship would she have with Placidusax?
Much appreciated! I do plan on making many more videos that will further explain these questions but I'll do my best to give a brief answer. According to my findings, yes Marika has always been the vessel of the ER. Just like you are the vessel for your own psyche and consciousness. In the video I state that the ER is the representation of Marika's psyche so it "belongs" to her. It's very hard to explain in this type of forum but hopefully my next videos will help explain this.
Regarding Placidusax, this get's a bit tricky. To me, Farum Azula represents a few different things. On a personal side, it represents Marika's self splitting off from her conscious-ego self. It also represents , collectively, the point in time when humanity gained intelligence and consciousness and began to structure society around order. At this early point in human history, we were still operating with our "reptilian" brain which is why it is home to dragons (reptiles) and the Placi is the Elden Lord during this time. I believe that the "god" Placi is waiting for is actually the Elden Beast. If the EB represents Marika's self, which is dominate in a child's psyche, it would make sense that the EB is the god of that time. But because Marika starting repressing parts of herself, thus separating the Self and Ego, the EB was no longer actualized and thus "fled". The rest of the story we know to be Marika rejoining these aspects of herself and the EB once again is actualized.
Hope this helps! Thanks for watching!
@@CenteredTarnished Great, thanks for the response. A couple of thing that I think might strengthen this point is that Farum Azula seems to be in a perpetual sunrise, so early life, infancy. While the gloam-eyed queen is associated with the time after sunset, so old age and death. I'm extremely curious to know more; I was just starting to look into connections between jungian psycology and elden ring, so this came at the perfect time!
Yeah, that's a great addition to put in. The shadow of eternal sunrise = eternal sunset. That's great! I'll be sure to give you the credit in the next video! Thank you
Thank you for a great way to introduce psychology through the prism of elden ring!
Great video, but at some points your voice cuts off before you finish a sentence.
Yeah, I'm not sure what happened with that. The video was fine prior to uploading it so I wonder if something happened during that process. It's also my first video like this so I have much to learn!
@@CenteredTarnished great first video. Good quality
@@CenteredTarnished your views and subs are still low, it’s not too late to reupload. I think this will blow up.
@@SpeedfreakUK Reupload to my TH-cam again or what do you mean??
@@CenteredTarnished amazing first video bro, great job
Subbed, absolutely amazing work
Thank you very much, means a lot!
Wonderful video. I hope you continue. Sometimes there are strange interruptions but I am learning a lot :D
haha yeah, I still have a lot to learn about video editing!
You've truly reshaped what this game means to me. Thank you 🙏
LOVE IT!!! Keep it coming
Hey I love this video honestly you did a great job. But I definitely think that Merika’s Shadow is just Malikeith and the Gloam eyed queen is potentially someone else’s shadow. I’m of the belief that Ranni and Melina are linked. Maybe Melina is the part of Ranni that she despised the golden order part of her self. I think there’s a strong case for Ranni being Melina who is also the gloam eyed queen.
This could be the case but Maliketh's entire purpose is to hold back the GEQ and death so it would have to be some pretty strong evidence to go against that in my opinion. Marika's shadow wouldn't hold back someone else's shadow - that belongs solely to her. Regarding the link between Melina and Ranni, all of the demigods are parts of Marika's split pysche. This is why all the female characters in the game look the same. They are all versions of Marika. I think the way Ranni is portrayed is what has people believing this - that she is half Ranni and half someone else. I don't believe this to be the case. I think Ranni's appearance is split like that just to show that it is her soul inhabiting a doll.
I would like to know the evidence you mention for your theory? I could definitely be wrong and am interested to know what makes this theory stand!
@@CenteredTarnished I definitely agree with the Jung allegorys in the lore. I’m honestly really disappointed in myself that I didn’t realize until your video made me aware of it. But also I think you recognizing this has contorted your view of the lore a bit. I think we need a lot more evidence to prove that ALL of the female characters are just aspects of Merika’s psyche. For example how could an aspect of someones ego have their own shadow? As far as the Melina is Ranni theory there is a popular time travel theory that suggest Ranni, Renni, and Melina are the three sisters referenced in Ranni’s quest line. But In this theory the “Three sisters” are actually just different aspects of Ranni which I feel neatly aligns with your Jungian allegory theory. The theory also suggests that Rani can time travel and she essentially goes back in time to stop her self aka Renni from becoming the GEQ. And Melina is the part of Ranni that is the Golden Order that’s the reason she has reddish hair and does golden magic and stuff. Are you aware of this theory? If not I’m sure if you look up Elden Ring time travel theory it’ll inform you a lot more then my comment.
I haven't heard of this theory but I will definitely take a look. I'm not sure why you find it hard to believe that certain characters are aspects of Marika's psyche but you associate several people with Ranni.
*_For example how could an aspect of someones ego have their own shadow?_* So, according to Jung, a single person holds within their psyche all of these aspects. When someone develops an ego, they also develop a shadow that is the antithesis of their ego. If you have an ego (which we all do) we must have a shadow.
I will be the first to agree that I am struggling seeing anything else but it's all there right in front of us. I'm not adding in time travel or anything like that to make it fit. I didn't even know Jung was a person until the breadcrumbs lead me to him. Since then everywhere you turn - his teachings are there. This time travel theory ties in Renna - someone we never actually meet, and adding in time travel. I'm not saying it's wrong but it seems to be adding in certain elements to make it fit.
@@CenteredTarnished Yeah, thats completely understandable I was a little taken a back by the time travel aspect too.
Although given more thought time travel isn't that outlandish especially considering we as the player character partake in it. But the theory also suggest that when Ranni at the end of her questline/game says "we will embark on a 1000 year journey" she is referring to time travel. I don't think its that far fetched the game hints at time being distorted anywyay. Also I defintely think there are diffrent aspect of Merika's psyche but I don't think Melina and Ranni are apart of that it seems they are just another example of fractured minds/beings in the game...
@@codeineskywalka5691 For sure. Time fuckery is definitely a common theme in all FromSoft games and I could see how Ranni could do that in her end game. I guess I don't see the connection to Ranni, Renna and Melina and the GEQ but I will have to read the theory for myself! Either way, I appreciate the conversation and hope you continue watching! In the meantime, i'll check out that theory
Bloody amazing. I can live off this content. Keep going!
Hahah, GREAT video!! I really really agree, it took until minute 36 to convince me! So cool to see you put forward this 1 year ago. Let me ask you; Did you feel strongly about these themes when exactly? @ What point in the game so to speak? - Excellent work. I feel like a lot of the biggest lorevideos are too simplistic, this feels more akin to what is really going on, the abstraction level had not been thoroughly examined, until now.
Jung and te archetypes seems to be the key to the psyche and the deep in th story of elden ring and all good story ever told
The elden ring you see in farum azula has nothing to do with Marika. The elden ring existed in the time of the dragons and it was simply different back then. The elden beast is also extremely draconic is shape, hinting at its age.
I knew there was a genius who could explain everything to us . Thank you !!!
Really interesting video and I look forward to more.
More to come!
I think you’re over selling the Jung influence. Jung was just heavily influenced by the philosophies/spirituality that influenced the game.
Im not sure what you mean? Can you give me an example.
@@CenteredTarnished for starters (inner) alchemy, kaballah, Neoplatonism etc are all influences on Jung and have clear influence on the mythology and themes of the game.
@@nottwo oh for sure, not to mention Christianity, hermeticism, "kingdom of heaven is within", and many more. I guess during my research, I have yet to find someone who combines all of these aspects as cohesively as Jung and I think this is where my fascination with him started. If it was just about the shadow integration or alchemy, I could see your point but Jung had a firm grasp on all the things we see in game. I think it's kind of like saying "Einstein was just heavily influenced by Newton so don't give him too much credit as he got it from somewhere else."
Amazing video and explanation
brilliant take on the lore. kudos for you
I wish the sound didn’t keep cutting out in this
Good video
Excellent stuff.
Have you considered making videos in light of the DLC?
What if I told you GoldMask represents you the player, the one who studies lore of elden ring incessantly, combing every detail, yet missing that critical piece of information:
That Melina IS both Marika and Ranni.
Melina, who has the gold eye of Marika, the Gloam Eye of Ranni. The one who casts ancient Erdtree spells but fights like a black knife assassin. What if it wasn't just Ranni's body that got split, but also her soul. One half of her soul taken and merged with part of Marika, giving birth to her new form at the Erdtree.
I would say it's an interesting thought but am not sure it holds up to scrutiny. Let's think about it and see.
1) GoldMask is only interested in the Golden Order lore so he already only get's part of the picture - an already very skewed picture.
2) I would say if the player character is represented by someone combing through the lore, it would have to be Gideon as he seems to have an understanding of almost everything.
3) The FF ending is clearly a resurrection of the Gloam-Eyed Queen and Destined Death which we only just set free after defeating Maliketh. Ranni did steal a piece of DD but if she was the GEQ, she would have the power of the entire rune not have to steal a scrap of it.
4) I'm not sure why fighting like a black knife assassin is something associated with Ranni as we never see her even move outside the ending.
5) I think it's a stretch to say her body and soul were split between various things with no supporting evidence.
It makes much more sense that Melina is a projection of Marika's ego-conscious psyche (golden) and her other shadow-unconscious side (GEQ). Don't have to really make what if's or grasp at things. It explains everything very nicely.
I like theories and don't like shooting them down, but they do have to hold up to some critical analysis.
@@CenteredTarnished 1 & 2) missing my point of "lore searching is missing the key ingredient of this person is two people is the final puzzle piece. Obv. people can identify with whichever character suits them 3) GEQ doesn't have power of death rune if it's taken from her by Malaketh 4) Ranni literally was friends w/ the assassin's & their people and their theology of anti GO+pro star worship, and worked with the assassins specifically, it's very possible she got their fighting style as well. 5) it is a theory can't argue that but it's definitely possible.
Yes this is definitely possible and I don’t want to sound like I’m saying otherwise. Let’s take 1&2 off the table. 3) there’s an incredible amount of evidence connecting the Rune of Death and the GEQ. Just like we can kill Radhan and take his Great Rune, I would assume the same is true with her. 4) I would agree the Ranni and the Nox have similar motives and interest but it’s a stretch to say they were friends or she got her fighting style from them with nothing to support that claim. Unless I’m missing something, I don’t recall there being anything in game that says Ranni and Nokron are connected somehow. To be fair, everything that’s not the GO has those same motives. Let’s assume that she was friends with the assassins, she trapped their leader in an evergaol. This to me seems like she used them to get what she wanted.
Also, everything about the GEQ and black flame involve faith not INT so I still don’t see why Ranni has anything to do with the GEQ. If your connecting them via the eye thing, damn near every female character in FromSoft games has something strange about their eyes
Wow what a great video
This is a miquella level of compelling.
Marika and the Gloam Eyed Queen must be sisters that makes total sense
Not quite. They are actually the same person: marika represents the ego and GEQ represents the shadow side. 2 sides of the same coin. You can think of it like Dr Jakyell and Mr Hyde.
So to say, when you are born, before you are conscious, you are a beast. An intelligent beast which can learn culture & language through exposure, but a beast nonetheless. The greater will guides you to becoming a person, & it was through the greater will that your existence could even come to be- collectively we know a mother cares for her young, we want mothers to care for their children, & if they didn’t, they’d die. The elden beast is not just the self but a baby because babies are as close as we humans get to animals, i’m saying! (This might be why giving birth & the snake stuff is blasphemous, not being formed whole from a tree)
Anyhow, is there something to those big aqueducts/ the blackstone civilization here? Such as that, in order to exist, you must exist physically in a world that already exists? You can’t be born into an empty void & live, so there is always a world around you that pre dates your ability to comprehend it?
im curious what youre take on astels are in this context
shadows of the erdtree oh the force is strong in this one ;)
loved it!
Ah! Frenzied flame! I saw a great video exploring the existentialist views in elden ring. The frenzied flame says more about nihilism & existence than psychology or jung. It’s about whether existence is good & deserves to go on. Since the greater will is the ultimate desire of all in existence, & everyone personally wants to live, the flame is opposed to, or sees a grand flaw in the greater will. The flame believes existence is not good enough to account for all the suffering it entails, & suffering would be eradicated if everything was eradicated. Perhaps they are called ‘outer gods’ because they are ideas Marika has been exposed to but does not believe in, take on, integrate, or really care about at all. Things she doesn’t need to hide in her shadow because they’re not even part of her
We have a tarnished archaeologist now we have a tarnished psychologist
Fingers crossed for a tarnished proctologist to explain the Age of Despair
I allways thought the elden ring was like the philosophers stone
Brilliant !
Great work!!!
Thank you so much 😀
Some nice ideas but, considering that some of fundamental concepts contradict the lore (eg. Placidusax being Elden lord and the fact that the golden order actively fought the ancient dragons, meaning a) that they had to have had an Elden Ring (in order to be Elden lord) and b) Marika cannot have been the god of that age (as the order she created fought them), therefore the Elden Ring cannot be Marika's consciousness (as it predates her rise to godhood)) the basis of the ideas in the video, while interesting and eloquently expressed, are essentially pure conjecture with the only evidence being cherry picked to support it and all contrary evidence ignored. I don't want to be a douche, but I think that some concepts are being read into too much and that, if left unchecked and undisputed, it's only going to take the community further away from the ideas the creators had. All being said, I don't deny that Jungian philosophy had an influence on the creators but that, much like a roarshack
...Rorschach, you are seeing what you already expect to
Sorry, I hit reply too early
I'm not sure what contrary evidence you are talking about. Can you explain further. I don't see why Placi being Elden Lord and the GO fighting dragons disproves my theory. Can you also comment on what ideas the creators had.... I wasn't aware someone figured it out
Fia is Marikas “other” self. That she cut off. This would explain how she was able to conceive so many unwanted children that are below the Capital. Melina is her own character entirely and is the daughter of Godfrey and Godwyn only whole sister. lol you doing a lot of reaching with this Jung stuff. It’s obvious that Fia is Marika. The symbolism is there when you see her next to the Painting at the round table.
Melina has to return to the tree by burning so Fia/Marika can birth her again “at the roots of the Erdtree” Death Prince Throne DuskBorn ending
The Fingers created Maliketh to kill Melina because she was the greatest threat to the Greater Will. Marika obviously does not want to be a slave to the Elden Ring. Melina is the Gloom Eyed Queen and lives to slay Gods. So The Fingers created Melina’s Shadow, Maliketh to kill her and seal death.
The ONLY part of your WHOLE theory that is correct is Radagon is Marika.
Everything else can be debunked by the characters in-game telling you who they are and how they are related to Marika.
Bravo
The voiceover cuts out at times mid-sentence
Shits about to pop off
this has been great except for all of the cuf audio randomly, and the LOL moment of you connecting "rioting" to "justice" LOL. these are antithesises of eachother. one is an aspect to violence, hatred, and lawlessness. the other is that of virtue, order, and peace.
I my editing skills have improved since this video, luckily. Not sure when I connected rioting to justice? Do you have a time stamp?
@TheCenteredTarnished I can't remember exactly but my assumption was you were probably saying how the rioting for "Social justice" wad a good thing. I disagree vehemently as anytime you use a qualifier word like social before a word then you can 100% believe than that new thing doesn't represent the other. Social justice is not justice, and things Social engineering is not engineering.
Myazaki is an ai confirmed
at the very a least some sort of extraterrestrial
@@CenteredTarnished nah, more like an outer god
Are you the Bloodborne Guy?!!
I'm not! Be he is awesome and I respect the hell out of his work