1 point you may have forgotten that helps with your theory is that marika is a shaman, and that the shaman are said to have a unique trait that allows them to converge and bind together with others harmoniously.
The jarbeings have a seal on their forehead that look like radagon's and marika's soreseal overlapped, so they could be two different shamans that merged or unmerged at somepoint.
Interesting theory... But, there's something worth thinking about: In the base game, when you fight Radagon. You clearly see Marika's corpse fall from the cross (the rune) and transform into Radagon's corpse being controlled by the Elden Beast. You see her hair turn from gold, to red, before you fight. I think this shows us that Marika never got rid of Radagon. She's always retained the ability to transform into him... even in death. They've always remained 1. The Elden Beast even uses this ability while controlling Marika's corpse. Miquella, on the other hand, removed St. Trina from his physical form and dropped her into the fissure. I have no idea why St. Trina looks like a strangely, beheaded flower mutant. But with that, Miquella permanently removed a part of himself "love" that physically manifested into whatever it is St. Trina looks like. There's indication that this was a violent removal of part of his physical form as well. In order to find St Trina, you're literally following a trail of her blood (the blood manifests as purple flowers). The flowers are called the Nectarblood Burgeon. Miquella has no physical form after he becomes a god, in his own way. He basically has to take Radahn's spirit, and Mogh's body, and control them through his charms. Marika does still have her physical form after becoming a god. She marries and even has children with Godfrey and Renalla, before she... basically marries herself. Marika physically plays the role of the mother (when she's Marika married to Godfrey), and the father (when she's Radagon married to Renalla), in the act of giving birth on multiple occasions. You can't do that without a physical form. So Marika and Miquella's paths to godhood weren't identical. And the end results weren't identical. Remember as well, Marika was also aided by the Fingers, who gave her the Erdtree seed. Miquella, was just doing his own thing through his charms. So, the results are different because the process is different. A strange thing about Marika/Radagon... I don't recall anything that talks about them both being present at the same time. There's a church on the eastern side of Liurnia where you learn about the marriage ceremony between Radagon and Renalla. But there was no such ceremony between Marika and Radagon. When Marika is sealed inside the Ertree, Radagon also vanishes. No one knows what happened to Radagon, until you enter the Erdtree and see Marika's corpse transform into him (controlled by the Elden Beast). This is why the "Marika IS Radagon" is such a plot twist in the base game. Just my 2 cents.
I thought his point was that she did initially divest herself of Radagon, then Radagon eventually found her again? Maybe that is partially why Miquella left St. Trina in such a difficult place to escape?
I doubt that Marika could pull off a Bruce Wayne/Batman while she was with Godfrey and Radagon with Rennala, i think that she divided her body in 2 and when she was trpped in the Erdtree Radagon fused with her again
Radagon rune is what we see in the thorns preventing us from entering, that's part of why radagon hasn't been seen as well. Radagon has always been a separate being from marika. No where in the dlc was radagon even mention. Some might argue with miquella but his case is different and much more special. Unlike Marika, Miquella had already started his path to godhood with his haligtree. His initial plan for it was to allow him to break his curse of eternal youth and be reborn anew as a god/order of sorts and he succeeded. Many of the items of in the base game describing St.Trina mention her sudden appearance and disappearance as well as the fact she eventually became an adult, (St.Trina Torch). Mogh action of removing him from his tree and poisoning him with his blood kill him and he departed to the land of shadow. The land of shadow is the afterlife and to many items point to this fact.
@@MiguelSanchezDelVillar When Marika (in Radagon form) was with Renalla, there are these items... it's called the Mask of Confidence. It states: "When Radagon married Rennala, he ordered the Carian magic preceptors to don these masks. To make it clear that all of their matters were to be kept strictly private." It's not explicitly stated. But, I think that secret they had to keep was that Radagon IS Marika... or at least something along those lines. I don't think this was something Marika necessarily hid from Renalla, or Godfrey. This is just me assuming at this point, though.
So, let me get this straight... Marika's people are slaughtered by Hornsent, she takes revenge and seeks Godhood She divests herself of her flesh, becomes spiritual, this flesh becomes Radagon either now or later Marika, now a god, has two children. Messmer and Melina. We don't know their father, but it could be Radagon or The Fell God. Marika leaves Messmer to prosecute her vengeance and leaves The Land of Shadow She meets Godfrey, choses him as her Consort and Elden Lord, has three kids, Morgott, Mohg, and Godwin Radagon, now reborn, comes to the Lands Between. He likely becomes Marika's general, after banishing Godfrey, as he was leading her armies when he fell in love with Rennalla Radagon has three kids, who wind up divine because Radagon is technically also a god, and thus Ranni, Radahn, and Rykard are born However, possibly as part of their plan, or possibly just because Radagon was drawn to return to Marika, Radagon and Rennalla break up Marika and Radagon marry, with him becoming the new Elden Lord and her new consort. Two new kids, Miquella and Melania Marika however has begun to despair of her godhood. Imprisoned by her divinity, she sets Hewg and the Tarnished to send someone to kill her Marika even rejoins her body with Radagon to give the Tarnished something to kill. She smashes the Elden Ring as an act of defiance I recall that Radagon tried to fix the Elden Ring, so even fused, their minds are separate, and Radagon may still be loyal to their godhood, sort of an inversion of how St Trina was opposed to Miquella's Of their children, various learn of how to become a god. Both Ranni and Miquella are inspired to try Melina may be tied up in this somewhere. She's spiritual, having lost her body, and might be the one helping Ranni? Maybe she's just trying to help kill Marika? Ranni divests her flesh using the Rune of Death. Miquella just carves it off piece by piece Miquella becomes a monster, controlling people, using Mohg and reviving Radahn Ranni murders Godwin, but otherwise is just trying to be free from this whole mess And the Tarnished eventually kills Marika and brings about the new age, whatever choice they make
Don't forget the elden lord was sent away, The rolls of the fingers, the empyreans born to replace Marika, and only through her will ,that we have Grace.
Also that Ranni’s life is essentially what Marika would pick if she could have a redo. Ranni has a mother who loves her, supportive family, treated like a princess by those around her but earns that respect. Doesn’t abandon things like love & loyalty in the path to godhood. Doesn’t separate destined death from the new process. Even limits her rule to 1000 years. A remarkably short time in this game. Forges a path with no one but her loyal consort to keep company. After all godhood is a prison. Not beholden to the Greater Will instead joins the stars where she may end up fighting the Greater Will more directly. I mean when I realized all this after reading the Minor Erdtree incantation I was floored. Completely changed all of the endings to me. Marika wins regardless of ending but Ranni’s is her own perfect ending.
@@jeysonfritz9613 Hmmm. That's a good point. I knew I'd missed something in all this. "I was born at the foot of the Erdtree. Where mother gave me my purpose." I think there's also some evidence that Messmer knew Radahn too, so maybe Marika went back and forth, and she sealed off the Land of Shadow much later on?
I could have sworn that the shattering happened after the Night of the Black Knives or w/e. I remember it being portrayed that Godwyn was beloved by Marika and that is directly the reason for her destroying the rune. Also, Ranni pretty explicitly states she didn't want to be under the influence of the Fingers and the Greater Will anymore, she wasn't trying to ascend to godhood.
Radagon’s Icon says “thus did the hero aspired to be complete.” If Radagon is the pieces of a once complete pre-godhood Marika, this completeness could be more overt, in that he literally wanted to complete his being.
Marika was Marika first she came from the this other world. The Horned people native to this land capture women and turn them into Shamen who tend the Jars. The Jars are to torture and essentially reduce criminal into a paste and shove them into the Jars. It’s a spiritual belief of those that worship the crucible that all things are one and by combining many criminals into a single vessel they become better than they were. However making a Shamen is also a brutal affair as you need soft hands to tend the jars. So they whip the captured women until their skin becomes tenderized. Marika escapes them and becomes a God, escapes to The Lands Between where she finds a new religion counter to the Crucible. Fast Forward some time later and she returns to bring bloody vengeance upon the people that destroyed her village and tortured her for their cruel religious practices. It was labeled as a crusade but when you know what happened to her this was really just an excuse for Revenge.
Interesting take. It is more in line with the coalescence of the Hermetic Alchemical Marriage (centripetal), than the fission of the Monad into dualities (centrifugal).
@@Broomer52Oh no, it's even worse. The shamans, AKA the Numens, have a unique physiology that allows them to meld with the flesh of others, similar to how plants can easily accept grafts from other plants. So, the Hornsent began capturing and torturing these Numen with instruments like the Tooth Whip, leaving festering sores full of puss all across their bodies, then they'd cram them into great pots along with any other undesirables and seal them up. A spirit NPC outside Bonny Village next to the Tooth Whip says something to the effect of 'Get in the pot now. This is the lot of you shamans. Nigh-sainthood awaits you.' Either the Hornsent were trying to use the Numen to create a Saint, i.e. a powerful and divine being, or they were saying that they considered the Numens so lowly that the only way they could be redeemed in their eyes was by submitting to being crammed inside these pots and serving as jar-warriors. The Greater Potentates of Bonny Village all carry Butcher Knives intended for human flesh, and they all wear the same headwear as the Hornsent NPC, implying that said Hornsent is a Greater Potentate, and that all Greater Potentates in Bonny Village are Hornsent as well, hence Marika's hatred of them leading to Messmer's war of extermination against the Hornsent and the Golden Order's rejection of the Omens.
I’ve thought about da Vinci and elden for the longest this is the first video I’ve seen of someone mentioning it but mostly Mona Lisa being a self portrait of himself as a woman he was a follower of the divine feminine def worth a read on it!
The thing about Marika's ascension is that the trailer implies it went differently than expected. It speaks of a betrayal while she is pulling the golden threads from a corpse. The threads that she then seems to use to ascend to godhood. She also has no lord with her at the moment, which makes me wonder, if the creature she killed was supposed to be the god of the new age and she was to be the lord. In that case, Radagon would be the vessel corpse and she would be the soul. It still works with the theory that Radagon is the body and Marika is the spirit, but in a different way.
this is just a theory, but radagon didn't used to have red hair before the fire giants cursed him, maybe his hair color was blonde before which was the corpse marika pulled the golden hair out of? But that still doesn't explain if it's possible to have 2 consorts for as Godfrey is the first to become elden lord, or maybe she changed consorts after she went to the lands between.
@matterixo There's no confirmation he was cursed by the giants. If anything the Giants Red Braid hints he's part giant. "Every Giant is red of hair, and Radagon is said to have hated his own red locks. Perhaps that was the curse of their kind." To me that implies he's part giant, Not they they cursed him. If it said "from their kind" I'd agree with you. Idk where the theory about him being cursed by giants with red hair comes from. Because if it's from the red Braid description... The theory doesn't make sense to me
The betrayal was talking about the fingers and Marika. The fingers were abandoned by their mother metyr who gained an obsession with communicating with the great will after thousands of years of silence, she broke down and left her children to fend for themselves and the fingers in turn gained an obsession with motherhood, they latch onto potential Empyreans for their own sake and they tricked Marika into thinking the greater will was active during this time, without realising that the Greater Will moved on after creation into who knows where and the outer gods were left fighting for rulership over it's creation, the fingers used this moment to bend history to whatever they wanted Marika was just too obsessed with her vengeance she didn't see the signs, the bitch only figured it out years later probably at a time when Radagon, Ranni or Miquella found out about the truth, since Marika helped Ranni kill Godwyn (most likely even Gidwyn knew of the ploy he was the favourite and with Miquella and Malenia knowing then yeah it's more likely he knew) a ploy to kill the fingers and the influence of the outer gods, they didn't have beef with the greater will cause it was never the greater will's fault and most of Ranni and Marika's anger were geared against the fingers; all of them were offsprings of the greater will it simply meant they had the same potential as Metyr and the Elden beast to ascend into that level of power which Ranni proved in her route.
It's possible that she had Godfrey at this point. In the black castle near the golden tree in the courtyard you find the Lord's Bestowal talisman, which is Godfrey accepting to be Marika's lord. Not sure if she asked this before or after her ascension, but Godfrey was present in these lands.
@@yamatonoryuujin4871 What exactly are the fingers doing anyway? Is the power of gold and thus grace originating from them? This is nagging so much in the back of mind, since Metyr doesn't have any "gold" powers and if I had to guess the gold powers originate from the crucible since they are similar. The only thing that hints towards the fingers having power over both, glintstone and gold, is the fact you can cast incants+sorceries with Metyr's staff. Like before the dlc I just assumed the fingers were also the ones bestowing the power of gold and grace, but now I am not too sure anymore given their appearance and that they actually never had contact with the greater will at all.
"marika never speaks" marika speaks through melina at most associated churches in the base game and it's some of the most standout dialogue in the game imo
Saint Trina was miquella's love discarded, I'd imagine thats why marika abandoned Messmer because she discarded 'humanity' and didn't feel like a loving mother to him after becoming a god.
They tell you in game context that the reason she did that was because Messmer was born with the serpent within him and his crimson flame. He undertook Marika's wish to crusade throughout the shadow realm , but her new "perfect order" would've been threatened if Messmer stayed due to his "impurities". Marika acted as a human with the power of a God, flaws were going to be a given clearly
The shattering was before Godwyns death. Godwyn got his own Rune =Rune of the Death prince. And he only could be killed by stealing fragments of Malikeths Rune of Death. The Black Knife was Crafted by these fragments to kill him.Maliketh became Gurranq because of the shame he felt after Godwyns death.@@ramoraid
This makes Ranni's achievement in the Age of Stars all the more amazing: she becomes goddess without giving up on her feelings. Yeah, she may had to leave everyone apnd everything behind but, at the end, she still holds her heart (aka her feelings) at the start of her voyage.
@@eligibledark0036 Using the power of death also clearly killed her flesh fully, her charred corpse clearly isn't getting up to any shenanigans like St. Trina and perhaps by sacrificing Godwyn's soul in the same moment she managed to sidestep the requirement of giving up spiritual aspects of herself?
@thomasparkin259 Not really, Ranni simply resigned herself to the dark moon which has been stated to be an untrustworthy entity. Even count Ymir said that the carians only worship/idolise the moons because they're the closest celestial bodies in distance. Count Ymir even implies worship of celestial bodies leads to the worship of the greater will. Ranni basically does nothing in her ending.
@@User-es3emmost people forget. The site of graces originated from the Erdtree as a way to guide the Tarnished. The site of graces at the Carian Manor guide you to Ranni. Meaning the Erdtree approves what Ranni is doing as well. In the end she plays straight into the hands of the very gods she despises.
i do feel like a lot of elden ring lore content is lacking thematic analysis, which i get from your stuff! to me Elden Ring seems to be about the prison of godhood, the endless cycle of striving to achieve it, corrupting the world, and begging for release. In Miquella we see a parallel to Marika, and in St Trina we see the grieving, restless (ironically) conscience of Miquella, begging to be stopped from achieving godhood. To be freed from the responsibility and weight of it all. It's fitting, then, that we as a character are mostly stripped of agency - usually taking the role of the Elden Lord and ushering in another's aspirational vision for the next thousand year voyage. We are Tarnished, the catalyst of decay and destruction, the inciting agent of a new prison for a new god. The consort of whatever comes next. Our role is essentially Consort Radahn's role, and at the end of the DLC, in a sense, we fight an incarnation of our own purpose and futility. A mindless manifestation of war and violence.
this .. entirely threw all the souls games. At the end of it all, the final boss is you. A monster out for blood, to control the world, to host the dream, and be divinity, untill another tries to stop you, as your character did to end the last cycle.
Excellent video! I think you figured it out. This video really just unlocked a whole new understanding of Elden Ring for me. I have been theorizing that Radagon may have been her abandoned flesh and first consort but I couldn't determine why Marika would need that to be the case, but you figured it out! This video is going to be a huge inspiration for me moving forward.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽!! I’ve waited years for this answer and stumbled across this video looking for arteia leaf farming spot 😅😅. To me this is the equivalent of finding that secret recipe grandma wouod never share.
The theory doesn't work. We know why Ranni, and subsequently Miquella divested themselves of their flesh- To sever their connection to the greater will/Marika's bloodline. Ranni is explicite about this reasoning, and Miquella is implied. It is not implied to be required for the gate of divinity, and that's a pretty huge leap, that directly contradicts Ranni/Miquella's motivations for doing so.
This makes a lot of sense. Ranni divested herself of her flesh as well, inhabiting a puppet of the one she idolized, which was clearly an important step toward allowing her to rise to godhood under the full moon.
@@jaredcullum117 i suppose she sacrificed he body with destined death also to not have a Radagon and Marika rebis situation or as with miquella and st Trina
She did so to sever her connection to the greater will. She explicitly says so during her quest. Miquella did so for the same reason, though it's more heavily implied than outright said like with Ranni. Marika's accension was with connection to the greater will, and as such, she had no need to cast off her flesh. This theory doesn't work. It's never implied that it's a prereequisite for passing through the gate of divinity.
@@saint3614 Melina also lost her body under unspecified circumstances, and her ultimate purpose was to burn the Erdtree, pretty much the greatest act of betrayal to the Greater Will there can be. So yeah, the idea of casting away ones flesh seems to be exclusively tied to disconnecting oneself to whatever god they are bound to.
I might agree with this, except St. Trina is divested from Miquella in whole- if wilting -form, and Miquella does not want St. Trina back at all. Also, Melina's recital of the "not yet become me" tale is rather encompassing of Marika and Radagon's relationship prior to their merging. There's no mention of prior association between Radagon and Marika. Plus Miquella acquires Radahn as the physical manifestation of his order, which suggests that regression/convergence is not a prerequisite for the physical manifestation. It's not IMPOSSIBLE that Radagon is Marika's original flesh, but that's a lot of layers of heritage (Radagon being descended from fire giants, Marika being the last of the shaman) to dig through, and I'm not sure it survives Occam's Razor. Interesting theory though.
The only reason why radagon has red hair was because he was cursed by the fell giant outer god Which is why he hates his red hair I dont think he descended from them The outer gods have cursed a ton of marika’s offspring, similar to the morgot brothers born with the fell omen curse,
With Messmer in the picture I have more doubt then ever that we should interpret the red hair association as some sort of hint radagon is a fire giant. It seems that they didnt like their red hair because giants also had red hair.
the description in the original Japanese seems to make it very clear that Radagon did not originally have red hair and this is in fact a curse from the giants against him, probably meaning that his son (Messmer) would be born cursed with fire aspects just like his younger sister
@@pockethugoodss That is not the reason he has red hair. The item that mentions radagon hair say it is a curse of their kind. not that they cursed radagon with red hair.
@@ramoraid it is my interpretation of the description Seeing that all marika’s children have shaman lineage they are most likely better candidates for an outer god to thrive in but yeah mesmer shares more qualities with the fel god if anything
My theory is that Marika used her own body as a vessel for Radagon. Judging by the statues in Enir-Ilim, the ritual involves the fusing of two beings through the "spiral"(the divinity aspect). The ritual itself might consist in having one empyrean to cast away their flesh and cross the gate in soul, and the lord to sacrifice his flesh and inhabit the discarded empyrean flesh. Then have the empyrean return from the gate as a god in the vessel, with the 2 coexisting in a "divine spiral". That's why we see Marika in the trailer with her dress pulled down (characteristics of Radagon) and with more androgynous features. I feel we were seeing Radagon in Marika's body calling back Marika in divine form. As for who Radagon was, I think he could have been a hornsent warrior, an ascetic or an inquisitor. I say that cause he has Lot of characteristics connected to the hornsent culture. 1) in Sote we find red bears named Ralva and Rugalea, and Rauh's ruins, all sounding similar to Radagon, a red haired warrior, with connections to the misbegotten, able to smith the elden ring itself (maybe involving smithscripting) or reforge Rennala's sword into hard light, similar to the inquisition staffs. 2) He is described as a "leal hound" and a stoic man who lives by following and imposing strict rules. All traits of an Hornsent ascetic, a man who wanted to achieve divinity and completeness. Even the divine beast warriors are described as "vessels for the divine", what Radagon basically is. Besides that, he is the one who created the current of fundamentalism, which eventually acted as inquisitors of the golden order. Perhaps it all came from his culture. 3)his dress when we fight him is reminescent of the hornsent ascetics clothes. his hair are red, typical of animals closer to the crucible itself. the giant association probably comes from the modern people of the lands between not knowing of the effects of the crucible. he is also one of the few enemies that doesn't stagger as we fight him, together with the crucible knights, who might just be hornsent warriors in the service of godfrey. both him and Enir-ilim warriors use a mixture of heavy and quick moves, both manifesting solid light in their combat, with the hornsent creating horns of pure light. 5) the hornsent barbs incantations are similar to Radagon's ring of lights, albeit the latter seem a more perfected version of the incantations. but returning on the topic of barbs, the latter are used by Radagon to seal the erdtree, are associated with him and are commonly used on criminals or prisoners of the golden order. then we have the sewing patterns, symbol of Radagon. this is a stretch in my opinion, but Midras' is filled with stitches from his tortures and his greatsword, once an inquisitor staff, is shaped like a golden needle. his ash of war is even described as reminescent of the golden order, for some reason. I believe Radagon was a hornsent divine warrior, wishing to become a vessel of a god or to achieve divinity. maybe in his religious fanaticism he wanted to bring absolute order to nature itself, considering Radagon's hate for his hair. Marika took advantage of that desire, completed the ritual with him and hen betrayed the hornsent for the golden order.
Miquella's journey reminds me of Inanna's descent into the Underworld, as interpreted in the light of Jungian psychology as a journey towards completion through a ritual death and rebirth. And I don't think divesting yourself of anything makes you more complete as such, but rather that through that journey you acquire the ability to re-integrate that which you divested yourself of, in order to achieve completion. The question is, did that journey fail for those who attempted it in this story? Godhood in this universe does not seem to be a desirable fate.
We don't know how many gods there were before. I'd say the process itself is still flawed and is missing something important, exactly what you said: after all of that they'd need to re-integrate what they sacrificed, but at that point I doubt any being would care or be capable of doing that.
Unfortunately, the descent of Inanna is misunderstood by most who use it as an example. It's a lesson in going too far. Inanna is rescued by her father who sends sexless beings to save her, and then she returns to punish her consort who did nothing to help her. She also made her consort stay in the Underworld for six months out of the year. It has nothing to do with re-integrating anything, and everything to do with having friends in high places who think outside the box to save your ass.
I disagree. I think Miquella divested himself of both his body and passions specifically because Marika didn't do that and it lead to ruin. As Ymir says, Marika was doomed to fail because her roots were rotten, but Miquella recognized it and decided to cut them out.
This. Miquella is both following in her mother's footsteps AND trying to correct her mistakes (only to abandon something critical, his love). Their appearances are vastly different too: he is clearly ethereal, while she seems made out of stone. In the trailer, when she's at the Divine Gate, she appears fully corporeal. As Goldmask's rune reveals, gods are fickle because they're not so different than humans. Miquella was fully tying to overcorrect that.
Yes, i agree. I believe Miquella thought the problem was Marika’s connection to the physical world. Ymir also supports the idea that miquella felt any connection to his mother would taint his age.
Radagon was a Giant/beastman of some sort (perhaps both at different times) he used the Rune of the Unborn to change himself. It's the point of the Boc questline, to show you what Radagon did out of similar feelings Boc had. It's why the beast chimeras are called his children in the game files (Like how we knew Melina was Marika's daughter even though that was obvious too) and why the Red Wolf of Radagon exists, his beastman lineage.
@@UnlovedWarlock Interesting theory, but I don’t think that explain why Marika and Radagon would have the same body. The existence of St. Trina really makes me think that Radagon was a part of Marika that she discarded to become a god.
I’ve been thinking about this for a long time…..I always thought due to how little history radagon had he was once part of Marika but they split and then became one again at a later point
Yes, but the point you seem to miss is whether they were one being to begin with who later split and then rejoined, or if they were always one being the whole time, never split, always like 2 sides of a coin, like Miquella and st. Trina
@@LHSPRIDE i haven’t played the dlc so i dont even know who is saint trina. So marica splitted after being shattered ? Only into radagon or in another pieces too ?
@@bomnitoperro9422 Yes, it is common knowledge that they are the same person/ sharing a body. What the original commenter meant, is that it was never clear if Radagon was always a part of marika, that she split off at some point - like miquella st. trina- to then reabsorb him later again, or if Radagon was an actual different person to marika before they fused together.
@@bomnitoperro9422 Saint Trina was referenced a ton in item descriptions in the base game, most lore youtubers figured out she was Miquella's other half similar to Marika/Radagon
the best lore i head so far! no random jargons used or anything as such! clear, crisp and on point i feel i understand the game/lore better now! thanks alot
I've been thinking about the Numen a lot too. I prepped a character to RP as a Numen for the DLC and after getting to shaman village and finding person in the tree, I feel so strongly that's a Numen. The shaman were also used to full the warrior jars, and if you look at the fleshy bloated enemies that fit in jars, their features are what I'd expect a Numen to look like. Food for thought anyways
I think their hair is a dead giveaway. As we can see from the emphasis on red/golden hair of characters and their lineage, hair color carries great importance in the world of Elden Ring. The silver colored hair of the Numen can be seen in the character creation and the statue in the Shaman Village, and the hair of the tumorous pot enemies is a very similar shade
Yeah I don’t get this part. And also where does that put Radagon and Marika on the timeline? How does radagon bang rennala, while marika is riding godfrey? Its so confusing.
Radagon is an aspect of marika made manifest in a corporeal form very much like st. trina is an aspect of miquella that manifested itself and then was disconnected from the whole Edit: although, the lore leaves it quite open for personal interpretation as it is somewhat implied that radagon was part giant (or somehow inherited the giant's Red hair)
Thats cuz Marika and Radagon share a soul and thats pretty much where the connection ends. For most of their existence they are two separate people, each with their own desires, agendas and personalities. The only point in which they were a single body was before they split and then within the erdtree as a punishment by the Elden Beast. To me Marika and Radagon are a direct mirror to Cersei and Jamie Lannister, with the whole selfcest and everything (as Cersei and Jamie viewed eachother as one person). In this scenario Godfrey would be the stand in for Robert Baratheon and its likely he knew Radagon from his time acting as the first elden lord, as Radagon was a champion of the erdtree and probably a retainer in Marika's house. Now if Radagon ever loved Marika and vise versa, thats debatable. I believe he liked Rennala more than he did Marika, but they still had four children together. This too might reflect on Cersei and Jamie, where they share an almost supernatural connection due to their bond as a singular soul. In summary: One soul, two people
I came to this video after watching the one you dropped today. Fantastic work. As someone with a background in literature and composition, you have made some very solid inferences with the scant information From has given us to work with. Somewhere out there, Miyazaki is either very impressed, or very frustrated, that you nailed it!
I think it’s interesting that the Elden ring remains in her womb, and in the story trailer for shadow of the red tree we see Marika pulling golden strands from what looks like a womb. I’d like you to explore that!
Marika doesn't want Hewg to craft a weapon to kill her, she wants the tarnished to kill Radagon (her current consort). Rodrika mentions the weapon is for Marika, but remember: she's totally unaware that Radagon is Marika (as well as being her Consort). Here's the thing though, she sent the tarnished on this journey to become her consort before she was locked up in the erdtree. Meaning, killing Radagon isnt gonna save Marika, she's done at this point (the game kinda lets you know this when her head completely falls off). This is why the Elden Beast spawns after Radagon dies: The vassal of the Elden Ring has been released upon the death of Marika+Radagon
You are very much correct in this sense, and most fail to grasp that what remains of Marika and Radagon are not really people but basically empty husks. Though Radagon being second Elden Lord should have been known to everybody, including Rodrika
Does Marika want us to become her consort? She stays a broken, empty statue even after we re-head her. But Ranni promises her something different as her head disintegrates in the best ending. I think Marika realized she was a slave to the Greater Will, and wanted us to free her, the only way a vessel of the Golden Order could be freed. Whether we are riding up to Ranni’s door or the Three Fingers’, Marika’s grace continues to point the way forward. No guidance points to the mending runes, though there is one nearby in Godwyn’s case.
Killing Radagon, kills Marika. They share a soul. This is evident after killing Miquella. If you go back to visit St Trina she is dead on the ground and leaves St Trina’s Blossom headgear. So essentially Marika is guiding the tarnish back to her to kill Radagon and end her reign/imprisonment as a god
I always thought the butterflies were fragments of Marika and Radagon "shattering" themselves to become one. The pieces left over became Miquella, Malenia, and Melina. Now this makes me think Messmer and Melina could have been born from the fragments of Marika originally divesting herself and Radagon. While the other two Ms were born from the re-merger later on.
That's a really interesting idea. I mean just look at how Malenia's scarlet bloom produced 5 daughters. Is it unreasonable to assume Marika could do something similar?
I think this explains why Radagon suddenly left Renalla. Marika was tired of being a god, so she called to her other self and forced him to come back to become one again
Great video! I’ve been wondering about Ranni’s situation since more lore came out of the DLC, and the implications of her and Godwyn’s simultaneous deaths on her being as a whole and if the Tarnished chose to, her ascension to godhood!
Age of Order, has always been my favorite, blocking changes to the Elden Ring means we (the Lord) essentially take over in whatever way see fit. Though I can see FS pushing for the Ranni ending to be canon. Not only do we see Grace guiding us towards it but also just the amount of extra work/effort they put into it shows that. Also I wonder with Marika/Radagon's body being made of stone is that suggesting their age being 'ancient', seems to be a FS thing to show something ancient as having stone skin (looking at you ancient dragons and turtle Pope).
I dont buy that Marika had to divest herself same as miquella. After Messmer was born the FEAR of the abyssal snake in his eye made her secret him away. Miquella did all that to divide himself from the erdtree and the original sin. Marika failed at making the golden order exactly because she still had all this fears, doubt, fate(radagon). Yet even divesting himself of all this things doesnt help because as Yimir says, it because the mother is flawed. Trina mentions that godhood is a caged divinity and perhaps thats why a god needs a lord? to act as the hand outside the cage.
She didn't. Miquella (As with Ranni) does so to sever connection to the greater will. The motivation for Marika to do the same is entirely absent, and even contradictory to her goal at the time.
Why do people take what Ymir says at face value? He’s clearly biased towards Metyr. It’s the same concept as just taking Enia and the two fingers at face value just because they say something does not mean it is inherently true.
I think the assassination of Godwyn was the breaking point for her and she realized that everything she’d done had led up to this point and she just wanted to end it all so in a fit of grief and sorrow she shattered the Elden Ring and commissioned Hewg to forge a weapon that could kill her. Not necessarily in that order.
This wouldn't be the first story GRR Martin wrote where a character viewed as a villain turns out to be a more nuanced wreck and decides everything and everyone has to go along with her/him. Cersei Lannister, Damon Julian, Royd Eris' mother, Edan Morse just from what I've read
I think Miquella divested himself because he wanted completly a new era. That's why he had to get rid of from his golden flesh. Also we can see St. Trina as physically. Miquella didn't divest Trina. He divested her from himself. It was to this land that Miquella departed. Divesting himself of his flesh, his strength, his lineage. Of all things Golden. Ranni also does same. She wants a new era, that's why she only kills her body. Because she didn't want to slave to Golden Order. Otherwise, she could easily reach to Godhood. Lastly, I suppose Marika don't want to kill herself. She might ordered a weapon to kill a God for Radagon. Because in the end we kill Radagon not Marika. Marika stays as God and we became her lord. Just as Marika wanted.
I’m not entirely sure Marika wanted us to become her lord. Ranni picks up her disintegrating head in the best ending and promises her that things will be different. I think Marika wanted to be freed from the Golden Order, too.
Killing Radagon, kills Marika. They share a soul. Just like when we kill Miquella, if you go back to St Trina she is dead on the ground. Because she shares a soul with Miquella
Umm. No. That's why our Tarnished is unique. The title of Elden Lord was given by the manifestaion of the greater will itself, the Elden Beast, not Marika. We ascend to godhood in a very strange way, no other like us before. We aren't a consort of someone else, no maiden. That's why the age of fractured is my headcanon. Because that's how the game supposed to end. We breaks the tradition. Even Ranni's ending, no matter how you think it, is very similar to Marika's way
@@chakravartin3356 …But the Age of Fracture is still an ending where you mend the Elden Ring and restore the Golden Order. You just don’t add an extra mending rune, so it’s even more of the old ways than the other endings. You don’t become a god, you become Marika’s consort, except she’s a broken statue who can’t rebel anymore, just like in all the endings except Ranni and Chaos. The Elden Beast doesn’t give you your title, that glowing stone statue does when you put its head back on. In Ranni’s ending, the Elden Ring is dissolved, the Greater Will’s grip on the Lands Between is severed, and the Dark Moon, the Outer God that Ranni gives the Lands Between over to in the process of forging a new Ring and Order, leaves on a thousand year journey with Ranni and the Tarnished. Meaning the other Outer Gods will follow if they want to take that power for themselves. The Lands Between are safe and free from meddling. The people must find their own strength and make their own fates.
@@dodiswatchbobobo broken statue, not Marika. That's why it's unique. You like it or not, Ranni still use the same method with the previous gods. Just like Marika and Placidusax god who made him elden lord. The God need strength of physical form, and so the physical form become the elden lord. What i mean different is, We become the Elden Lord of nobody. We answer directly to the greater will, not through the god. Beside, isn't that the greater will didn't intervene anything with the lands between, explained in the dlc? That makes Ranni's ending looks silly since she thought the greater will put too much influence 😂
We learn Marika is from the shaman village. An item description that makes me wonder Tooth Whip Whip bestrewn with rotting, misshapen teeth. Filthy and seething with disease, the teeth are embedded in the whip and dose the victim with deadly poison upon each strike. As the wounds ripen they grow inflamed and ooze pus. The flesh of shamans was said to meld harmoniously with others.
Makes me wonder where Godfrey came from. Was he born in the Land of Shadow? If so, was he related to Marika? I'm wondering this because I think Godfrey used this "binding" power to bind Serosh the Lion to himself. And this is a bit of a stretch, but you could say that because we are Tarnished and related to him, perhaps we inherit this binding ability because we can bind Great Runes to ourselves. We can bind spells to ourselves. Then again, Godfrey doesn't really need to bind anything or anyone to himself. After all, he embraces his old self, Hoarah Loux, by tearing Serosh and his chest armor and gauntlets off. Instead of fighting us with his axe, he starts using his hands and feet. He bound Serosh to himself and took up the Axe to conduct himself as a Lord, for a wild beast of a man can't be seen as the King Consort of Queen Marika. He needs to be civilised, calm and composed, stoic and wise.
Mate The super imposing of radagon and marika 🥰 10/10 I agree with Jack in regards to perspective changing lol you definitely have made it more difficult for me to picture Marika as traumatised queen capable of eating her babies like hamsters. I have been trying to reconcile why messmers hair is red, either he was born of marika when her hair was red after being cursed by the giants and before radagons creation (which involves billion assumptions) or is radagons son (which requires a billion assumptions), and I feel like your "timeline" has kind of narrowed down things in my brain 😂 Well made, I enjoyed that 😁
I have a personal theory. When Marika and Godfrey waged war against the Fire-Giants and the Fell-God, as well as the Gloam-Eyed Queen, Radagon is never mentioned, yet when Radagon does enter the story he loathes his red hair for its resemblance to the Fire Giants, and Marika has two children, Messmer and Melina, who both have red or reddish hair and an association with fire, while Messmer developed an association with the Abyssal Serpent and Melina supposedly developed an association with the Gloam-Eyed Queen based on the Frenzied Flame ending where she intends to deliver unto us Destined Death, which was previously the purview of the Gloam-Eyed Queen before Marika and Maliketh defeated her and claimed the Rune of Death for themselves. My theory thus is that at some point, Marika picked up traces of these beings, and they manifested as Radagon, Messmer, and Melina. The birth of Messmer and Melina prompted Marika to separate those elements from herself in the form of Radagon, hence why Radagon and Godfrey are never identified as their father but Marika is undoubtedly their mother. Radagon likewise purged himself of these influences by having children with Rennala, while also improving upon himself and the Golden Order by mastering Carian sorcery and incorporating it into the Golden Order's doctrine in accordance with the Law of Regression. When Radagon and Marika joined together again, the Marika-Radagon Rebis was still impure and two distinct entities from one another, and so Miquella and Malenia were born to divest Marika-Radagon of those perceived flaws, yet Marika still considered Radagon to be imperfect; 'Thou art yet to become me. Thou art yet to become a god.' And thus did the two come into conflict after the Night of the Black Knives and the death of Godwyn, when Marika shattered the Elden Ring despite Radagon's attempts to stop her and mend it back together.
let me poke some hole in your theory, how does malenia rot and miquella eneternal youth come into play? since both their "ailments" come from the god of rot, a god that we know marika never fought. The fell god was clearly known way before messmer campaign(the fire golems lore) and the fire giant's never knew of it until the war against them was already underway.
@@ramoraid In the case of Malenia, it's mentioned she was born 'vulnerable' and the Outer God of Rot managed to take root inside her, which is probably similar to what happened with Messmer and Rykard; Marika and Radagon removed the influence of the Abyssal Serpent from themselves, but Rykard was still swayed by another serpent, the God-Devouring Serpent of Mt. Gelmir, which may be the true form of the Abyssal Serpent. So in that regard, the weakness of the 'Serpent' itself was purged, but the vulnerability to the influence of other gods like the Outer God of Rot was not, so when Malenia was born that vulnerability was purged with her and she suffered for it as the influence of the Outer God of Rot sealed in The Lands Between began to take root in her. As for Miquella? I'd wager he represents something else, the purging of Marika and Radagon's childish qualities, namely their youthful innocence, dreams, kindness, and ability to charm and endear themselves to others with those qualities, hence why Miquella is cursed with eternal youth despite apparently not being claimed by an Outer God like Malenia and why his power is over the hearts of others. Put another way, Marika and Radagon were forcibly separating themselves from the things Miquella embodies that would hold them back, while simultaneously protecting those very qualities, hence why they were fond of Miquella and accepted him going off to do his own thing, even though Radagon should have objected with Miquella breaking away from the Golden Order and taking so many people with him. On the topic of the Fell-God, the Fire Giants are ancient, and supposedly the art of smithing in The Lands Between traces its origins to them and their forge, which is fueled by the flames of the Fell-God. The giants as a race are also cursed by the Fell-God to act as its servants, with at least one giant always being forced to tend to the flames of the Fell-God and unable to leave. Breaking this covenant had dire consequences, as those giants who left the service of the Fell-God to side with the Carian Royal Family and the Golden Order had their chests hollowed out and they degenerated into trolls. The Hornsent being aware of the Fell-God doesn't contradict this in any way, as the Hornsent and the Beastmen are also very old races that predate the Golden Order by quite a lot, so even if they never managed to interact with the Fire Giants directly, which seems unlikely given how there are apparently other ways to and from The Lands Between and the Land of Shadow, it's also distinctly possible that the Hornsent were simply aware of the existence of the Fell-God in some form. In addition, we have little information about when exactly Messmer began his campaign in the Land of Shadow, but we know that Radahn's friend and childhood rival in the art of gravity magic, Commander Gaius, as well as Rennala's younger sister Rellana went with him, implying that Messmer was in The Lands Between with his family for some time before Marika sent him away, never to return, so realistically speaking Messmer would have left long after the war with the Fire Giants had concluded, and it's mentioned that Marika herself killed the Fell-God before she decreed that the last Fire Giant should be spared to tend the Forge and the Flame of the Fell-God for eternity, meaning whatever taint on her that the Fire Giants and the Fell-God might have left would have already been well and truly established. Moreover, while they obviously don't have full control over them anymore, there are notes talking about the matter of maintaining and operating the Furnace Golems that seem to have been left by Messmer's soldiers, implying that they're the ones creating the Furnace Golems and using them to ravage the Hornsent. After all, Messmer's modus operandi is burning and impaling Hornsent en masse, so the Furnace Golems are the perfect weapon of war for him since they can be allowed to rampage freely across the Land of Shadow. It would also make even more sense if they were a creation of Messmer and his army, as undoubtedly there would be some veterans who had either fought the Fire Giants and the Fell-God during the war, or who heard stories of the war and managed to emulate the power and terror of the Fire Giants through the Furnace Golems. And if Messmer's war has been going on centuries, then the stories of the Hornsent about the Fell-God and the Furnace Golems supposedly crafted in its image could very well be regarded as ancient sagas. So again, nothing about the Furnace Golems contradicts the notion that the Fire Giants and their pact with the Fell-God is not ancient. If anything, it actually further validates my theory as the entire reason Marika went to war with the Fire Giants in the first place was because they had access to the power of the Fell-God's fire, even if they weren't actively using it, which could burn down the Erdtree, the symbol of Marika's Golden Order. And the proof is that when Marika and Godfrey marched on the Mountaintop of the Giants, the Fire Giants used the Fell-God's power to fight back, meaning they had access to it and were ready to use it in the event of a war. There's also the matter of the ancient Astrologers that predated the Carian Royal Family and the Academy of Raya Lucaria were both aware of the Fire Giants and on friendly terms with them, while the ice-worshipping Zamor regularly came into conflict with the flame-worshipping giants, meaning the Fire Giants were recognized as such for centuries or even millennia before the arrival of Marika and Godfrey.
good video dude. A tip for taking it to the next level would be completely cutting out parts where it’s clear you stutter in your reading. It wasn’t terrible or anything but I just think it would enhance your videos in general. Thank you for lore mate
Great video, as always! Do you have any thoughts on the parallels between Saint Trina and the Anima Archetype? During my playthrough I couldn't help but notice so many Jungian themes about Trina and her associated bossfight and levels. (In my POV it feels like an attempted split from the Anima that resulted in the Anima becoming depressed and wishing for the Self (Miquella) to be killed)
Honestly before this video I was so confused by the whole Marika = Radagon situation and couldn't physically comprehend it as it was so abstract of a concept but now it makes so much more sense. Thank you for the enlightenment and also for this video in general!
Excellent points about casting off the unwanted self. But to your point at 7:34, I actually don't think Ranni Achieved Godhood in her ending. Ansbach states that the Gate of Dinvinity is used to become a God and Ranni never does this. She and the Tarnished start a new age, but she herself never states that they are going to rule or execute any grand plan.
You do consummate in a sense. She calls you her consort, as others have. She is corporeal and you flesh. She’s not a god as blessed by the golden order but a god nonetheless.
@@chadly211bucks this. If she wasn't a God, she didn't have to leave for her to finish her vision of the Lands in Between. Her choosing to leave means that she also became a God herself, the existence she didn't want meddling with the Land anymore.
@@RookeSpecs she leaves to be able to take the elden ring away from the lands between and together with the tarnished completely block the outergods from interacting with the lands between
I think it's pretty ironic that Trina represents the sound and "awake" part of Miquella as she is fully aware that his plan is a form of a unattainable dream/delusion.
Pretty make sense too, since she's the grown up while Miquella remains eternal young, even though in the end she's the baby head and he grew to adulthood
I used to get mad about how vague and incomplete the storyline is presented, it struck me as lazy at first. Now I realize it is a fascinating representation of the elusive pursuit of objective truth and purpose in real life, what an incredible reflection. It is going to be tough to let go of my tarnished identity over 999 hours invested and still learning. For the love of God release another DLC! Hands down best RPG of all time.
Great video. Looking at the lore from a psychological lens has a lot of merit. I would love to read more about the psychological concept described in this or your other videos if you or someone in the comments has some recs
Can you possibly explain why Marika kept her alter ego Radagon and Miquella had to divest himself of St Trina? I've only watched about 3\4 through, so forgive me if you explain this. Marika seems to have a corporeal body (as well as Radagon) and Miquella seems to just be in spiritual form. To me Neumans seem to be an actual separate race and Empyreans would be more in the wheel house you were describing. Side note, I thought St. Trina's divested voice was amazing. Not a lot was said, but the way it was captures an almost indescribable sadness and longing. I really liked your take on it all. You can tell a lot of work goes into most of these lore videos.
Well Miquella discarded of st Trina because he didn’t want to make the mistake of having tainted roots like his mother. He got rid of anything that could impede his ascension to godhood, even his core characteristic as a loving and compassionate person, and as a prevention method to not fuck up being a god as he thought his mother did. While the origin story of radagon and Marika is mostly theoretic, I believe that what this TH-camr is saying is partially true. However I don’t believe radagon was an actual person, but it’s an embodiment of her alter ego/ split personality. He represents the will that allowed her to be one of the only people out of her people to survive persecution and become some type of “saint”. It’s the form of Someone who she wishes she was to be strong enough to stop the ill fates of her people, someone that was feared and revered. The red hair is also a dead giveaway as, to me, Red is a symbol of passion, power, fear, bloodshed like Mesemmer. Blood and flesh is also a huge reason why marikas people were persecuted and stuffed in jars. In trying to overcome her trauma as she was a god, it also stood as a reminder of her painful past and where she came from, which would have made her act out emotionally like killing all the hornsent in a bloody massacre and separating herself from messemer while he stood as a symbol of the literal devil to be feared and hated on, the devil with RED hair. It’s hard to explain, but split personalities can happen to protect someone’s mind from very disturbing trauma, and escape of some sorts. I believe that’s what happened with Marika. Although radagon seems as a male, it’s a split personality of her that manifests physically as a “guardian” with a will of his own too. Even though she is a god, albeit a god that was tired of submitting and caged (again), she was very emotionally drained, and she even might’ve done to extreme lengths (because she’s messy asf) to just end it all and let another person handle being a god.
TLDR; Marika was lowkey fucked in the head and radagon is just her split personality in a physical form. Miquella saw that marikas original characteristics made him wanna abandon every single part of himself as a prevention method that wouldn’t make him fuck up godhood as he thought his mother did.
@@vivianlee7684 I thought Radagon was a legitimate person that had giant blood in that he detested and even worked as a smith in storm-whatsit castle. now I don't know if they were 2 different people and then Marika and him did a DBZ fusion thing or something, Melina's speech when she kinda channels Marika and says "thou art not yet me" or something to that effect. The way she says it leaves it to 2 ways of interpretation. Either they are 2 half's of a whole or two separate people that became one. But I'm almost positive that radagon is a separate consciousness and did have control over a body for a time.
I’ve been feeling this same way that Marika must’ve abandoned Radagon in shadow like Miquella did. Could definitely explain why he isn’t involved in early golden order conquests but then is able to become a champion. Leaves me with another question… was Godfrey’s soul put in a vessel? Who?
Someone speculated Godfrey refused to be Marika's physical self thus casting him away or stripping every gold (blessing) that was bestowed upon him (which is very intriguing to think about)
@@innomaiden5009My thought process is that Marika banished Godfrey and his army on the Long March of the Tarnished for two reasons. The first is that Godfrey had run out of worthy foes that could challenge him and make him grow stronger, which was Marika's stated reason for banishing them; they would fight and die in a land far away, grow stronger, and eventually the Tarnished, 'Ye Dead Who Yet Live', would be called back to The Lands Between by Grace and vie for the position of Elden Lord. I would further posit that Godfrey was the last of the Tarnished to find a worthy death in battle and return to The Lands Between due to his immense strength, hence why he only arrives at the end of the game after we've already cleared the way; we simply didn't reach the finish line before Godfrey returned and marched his way back to the Erdtree, but for the sake of honor he allows us to challenge him for the title of Elden Lord. The second reason Marika sent Godfrey away is a bit more speculative, but it aligns with what we discover about her history with the Hornsent in the DLC; Godfrey gave her two children who were Omens. Considering the horrible treatment Marika's people suffered under the Hornsent, it's not unreasonable to think that seeing two of her children be born as horn-covered Omens unsettled her greatly, and while Morgott and Mohg were allowed to live in their full state, they were still sealed below ground and hidden away from the world in the sewers of Leyndell. In that respect, Marika banishing Godfrey was probably something of a trial separation to see if they truly still loved one another after Godfrey's return, and give her a chance to have more children that were less likely to trigger her past traumas.
Radagon and Marika were two different persons blend together. "Every giant is red of hair and Radagon was said to have despised his own red locks. Perhaps that was the curse of their kind" Melina tells us: "Spoken echoes linger here. Words of Queen Marika, who vanished long ago. If you wish, I will share them with you. In Marika's own words. O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me, thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us both be shattered, mine other half" The implication here is clear, that Radagon and Marika were trying to combine, or more specifically that Radagon was trying to become a God, but he was not able to do this yet. This pretty definitively debunks the notion that Radagon and Marika were always the same being but “separated” at some point, since if that were the case, Marika should’ve said something like “thou’rt yet to rejoin me” or something like that rather than “thou’rt yet to become me.” This is further proven since we now know that the shaman's flesh could be blend together into others to ascend to "godhood"
"O'Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order, thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self." The more I think about it, the more this quote only makes sense if you understand Radagon as attempting to take over Marika's body and will (possibly at the behest of the Golden Order) to 'become a god' (quite literally becoming Marika), and Marika resisting this by shattering the Elden Ring (i.e. the source of her godhood), after realizing Radagon's play but before their merger could be entirely complete.
Yeah I believe that marika and ranni have been working together and were behind the shattering. Marika realized after becoming a god, it felt like a caged divinity (referencing st. trina's words). Thus, she conspired with Ranni to help her, who aspired to become a god too.
That's unlikely. Ranni's plan culminates in Marika's demise, why would she help Ranni? Also, the night of the black knives drove Marika insane. She was a god, she had no reason to make her plans covert, just look at all the horrible things she did as ruler of the Golden Order, she shattered the Elden Ring knowing of the consequences and suffered them. She broke the logic of the world in a desperate attempt to save her son
@odd-eyes6363 They wrote Marika's god hood felt like a cage. You just answered your own question: *to be free.* Look at her history before "Marika the Eternal", why wouldn't she want it to end?
@@crazy13alex still, why Ranni? If she conspired with anyone it was with Godfrey, that much is clear, as she ensured his resurrection by sending him away. And the death of her son's very soul, which culminated in the shattering, clearly shook her to her core. Ranni destroyed the only good thing Marika had in her life and stripped away the hope of reunion even in death.
@@YamiAi she did. The whole purpose of her questline is that she wants the Lands in Between to be free of the influence of Gods and anybody's Order. During the ending, she takes us with her to go far away. Why? She had to leave the Lands in Between to take out ALL influences of Gods and finish her mission because she is a God herself.
You're reading too much into the spiritual, it's borderline gnostic in nature. I think things dont work the same in the 2 lands, the land of Shadow is the land of death. It doesn't quite work because 1. Marika had flesh and "blood" even when she was a god. The intro, the shattering (esp. because Radagon wanted to undo it) and.... The most obvious the demi-gods, not least the ones she had with Godfrey 2. Miquella had flesh too, at some point he needed to divest himself to his love, which suggests St Trina was an actual person/agent different from Miquella.
A symbol with a very similar meaning and usage is used by Sir John Dee, though I forget what it is called. Both are related to things much much older which are pretty consistent with these ideas.
There is also a concept in alchemy called the Rebis. Basically one person who is male and female, spiritual and physical at the same time. It is the magnum opus of any alchemist. I wonder if Marika was born a hermaphrodite and when she became define transformed into a Rebis, “growing” a new physical body.
Its fascinating that the miquella pose makes radahn appear like a horned warrior and how miquella eventually is distilled down to a parasite existence like the elden beast
If I may be permitted to say so, and I mean no offense when I do, I don't think this theory holds much water in all honesty. Miquella shed his flesh specifically to sever all ties to his old lineage and fate under The Golden Order. This get's established in talks with Ansbach while finding more of the crosses in the dlc, notably the one with his eye. Ranni as well very blatantly tells you, if you talk to her doll at the first grace in Nokstella, that she slew her Emperyan flesh cuz she wouldn't acquiesce to the will of her Two Fingers, and wanted to "No longer be controlled by that thing", likely referring to her Two Fingers, since part of her quest is to kill them. Add to that the fact that there's just no evidence anywhere to even remotely hint that Marika performed the same process as Miquella, rather, as noted above, that Miquella is mostly unique in his actions to become a god. It seems more implied that he's trying to shed his "humanity", as it were, in an attempt to hopefully be better at godhood than his mother. Unbound by the flesh that likely was part of what made the previous god "no better than men" as suggested by Gold Mask's Rune. So yeah while I do think the theory is an interesting one, I don't believe to be very strong in light of what's presented in game. There's arguably more evidence in the dlc I think to suggest the possibility that Radagon was merged with Marika as part of her ascension rather than discarded. a shaky theory itself, and based on a single statement from the tooth whip, but just enough to suggest the potential more so. Apologies for the length.
Thanks for the comment! I see what you are saying but, the only way for us to deduce Marika’s ascension is by the actions taken by others who also ascended. I would find it incredibly hard to believe that both gods we see in game and their journey of discarding their flesh, is not something Marika would have had to do. Sure, they have their own reasons but if Ranni could have orchestrated the NoBK while being “controlled” by that thing. Certainly she could have killed her 2-fingers while in her body, no? To be fair, there is no evidence anywhere of Marika really doing anything. The developers make it clear that if we want to understand Marika’s journey and past, we have to understand other characters in game. Also, you kind of said it yourself, each god is stripping their flesh to severe their ties with the old and start a new age. Why wouldn’t Marika’s be the same? Was she the first god? Did she have to start from scratch or did she want something different something new and had to do the same thing the others did?
@@CenteredTarnished His point is that your theories are mostly assumptions, and pretty large ones at that. You're presenting all of this as "near fact" or "incredibly hard to believe otherwise", when a lot of this is just mere guesswork. You are guessing that Marika became a god in the same way. As many others have pointed out, there is plenty of evidence that suggests otherwise. That doesn't mean you're 100% wrong... but it's far from as certain as you seem to present it. Look at Vaati's approach when it comes to "certainty" - anything that isn't clearly supported is presented as "speculation, nothing more", and identified as such. For Ranni.... I mean the entire questline basically disagrees with the statement you made ("Certainly she could have killed her 2-fingers while in her body, no?"). Her body is explicitly discarded to free herself from the fingers. Ranni "divests" nothing else (We also have no evidence of Marika divesting herself of anything). Ranni's entire theory on "godhood" is to basically peace out and let the world run itself. Her entire quest (us helping her) focuses on her overpowering the two fingers (and Blaidd's shadow). She even needs us to find the blade she uses to do so. It's conclusively clear that she could not just do it herself (it's been like 5000+ years since her plot started), and even less so when she was still "under the control of the fingers". There is nothing wrong with your theories, and I hope you keep coming out with more - it's just don't get stuck in one. And you know, please don't present them as facts. The titles of these videos are incredibly too click-baity. You'd probably have a much better time with "Theory - Marika is a Metaphorical Jar" vs. "OMG TRUTH REVEALED, MARIKA IS ACTUALLY GODRICK!"
@@ssrobinson all theories are assumptions. The game simply doesn’t give enough information to come to any definite conclusions. I’m not going to preface every single statement with “this is just speculation” because everything is. Even item descriptions and characters contradict each other so I’m not sure what you want. My favorite example is that Godfrey is a demigod child of Marika’s. Based off item descriptions and in game dialogue I could say this is “definite” but if I did people would freak out. So, I ask you, who do you believe? When is the correct time to say, this is definite vs this is speculation? Oh, and you can’t use subjective terms. Only objective. So, you’ll say something like “I think it’s speculation when there is no in-game, direct evidence”. Then I’ll say “is Godfrey is child of Marika’s?” And round and round we will go. Things that don’t bend, break.
@@CenteredTarnished That is not even close. No, no one would freak out if you said Godwyn is the son of Marika and Godfrey. That is heavily established. There's nothing that disagrees with that, and while not explicitly outlined, it's very very clear. There is no debate, short of some 0.whatever% of players who may think otherwise (akin to flat earthers). If you made a video called "REVEALED, Godwyn is Marika's son!!" you'd only get a ton of comments saying "yes, we know that already, how is this news?" Saying that Marika is a Jar, or Miquella's kidnapping is what shattered the ring.... that's wild speculation, with plenty of possible counterevidence, and very little conclusive supporting evidence. Those are NOT established theories. Yet you phrase them as facts and apparently you adamantly can't be bothered to include a 2 second "speculation starts here" line? Those two examples (what my first comment addressed, and the Godrey example you compared it to) are so different and incomparable, I don't get how you even brought it up.
Excellent video, I think you are absolutely right. I feel with this theory pretty much everything else falls into place. Fascinating and well made. It adds an extra layer of poignancy to the story.
Would've been nice if we actually got more info about Radagon. The dlc fumbled so much in the lore department imo. Even the Gloam Eyed Queen was completely forgotten.
You know what, you're elden lord now, congrats you got the job you start on Monday. Seriously this helped alot. I'm doing the DLC for the first time on NG++ and I'm dying out here. This is gonna help me survive lol
i think youre really onto something here! I believe Marika is shown in the trailer “inside” the divine gates, (logistically, probably in a higher dimension or something). This pocket dimension would be where life is blended and all aspects of life are contained (the crucible). while inside, Marika meddles with something, or performs the sacred rite mentioned involving the gate (maybe even modifying or creating the golden lineage) when we reach radahn, miquella is inside that dimension, doing whatever Marika did while she was inside, and he exits the gate back into our dimension for phase 2.
Somewhat related - what are your thoughts on Godwyn? his story has never sat right with me. He doesnt have an M name (all other demigods are named with their mothers Initial) and he is never explicitly stated to be her child. We have only inferred that, partially due to the “demigods are all direct ofspring of Marika” but what if he is her divested flesh? Further, the “golden lineage” coming from Godfrey also feels strange. “godfrey” was only a name given to him by Marika, and we have no info about any other children in the Golden Lineage - just this massive gap and then somehow Godrick… doesnt add up to me
@@CyberSerumYT The random demigods in the walking mausoleums might be of the Golden Lineage? The demigods aren't necessarily named after their mothers. Radahn seems to be named more after his father Radagon, for instance.
@@michaelhenry3234 yeah it is implied that the golden lineage is more than two people but it just seems weird that nobody talks about any of them. Radahn may be named more for radagon, but it doesnt change the pattern of all Renallas children being R names and all Marikas being M… except Godwyn. i just feel like that cant be a coincidence and would make sense given the matriarchal nature of the society
Good interpretation, this is the most convincing theory I’ve seen on Marika so far. I’d like to see a further exploration of Marika’s character here. Why did she want to die? What changed in her life? It wasn’t Godwyn’s death (that was just the catalyst), because according to your theory Radagon being recalled was a sign of her new motivations, and he was recalled before the KOTBK. Was it something else? Perhaps more knowledge of Metyr, or the Godskin Apostacy, or something? Just tossing ideas out here
Bravo , this is the clearest lore ive ever heard. You even explained it a way that even i understood. I thank you for all your hard work . This was so good i didnt want it to end.
Agreed on all counts but one thing I think to add - the elden beast was inside Radagon/Merika (it makes up Radagon’s lost arm and emerges once defeated). Merika was a puppet of the elden beast and needed it needed to be killed for someone to kill her - thus the Tarnished
I don't feel like all of the points presented here are as coherent and fleshed out as some others on this channnel. Don't think there is anything to suggest in the game that she would separate from Radagon before becoming a god.. Her actions later on do not suggest she is rid of her emotions and feellings.
Great video!! Lots of parallel thinking as I've made a bunch of similar observations and come to similar conclusions. But dude! Very cool insight you added to the Vitruvian man observation! I hadn't been aware of that at all. And even if someone superimposed the images like you did I wouldn't have realized any significance other than an interesting cultural reference. Really cool insights and speculation you shared! It occurred to me while watching that Marika's pose and imprisonment is pretty similar to Sellen's the Graven Witch. Perhaps there is some of Marika's story to infer from the events of Sellen's questline o.O
two contradictions on this amazing video... 1) if Radagon is Marika's abandoned flesh, like St. Trina is to Miquella, how Marika and Radagon had children? 2) if Ranni did the same thing, why she didn't switch sex like Marika and Miquella
Radagon was his own human, known as a champion, made his name in the weeping peninsula as the father of the misbegotten - he was the one who led them to attack castle Morne
I think the DLC cheated us out of the real origin story we all actually want to know about, one far more important than Marika and any of the Demigods... ...and that is the story of Patches, who should have been Elden Lord.
Some contributing evidence for this theory might be the stone figure in the hollow tree in the hinterland village. The figure has the exact visage of radagon, radagons straight hair, a flat chest, and marikas signature braid. However, the figure is definitely feminine. This is the first evidence that made me consider that marikas ascension involved this figure, and that maybe this is what marika was before her ascension.
outstanding . this was the best radagon lore i have heard to date , most just say " he came out of nowhere" these are post dlc lore videos im talking about also
1 point you may have forgotten that helps with your theory is that marika is a shaman, and that the shaman are said to have a unique trait that allows them to converge and bind together with others harmoniously.
Moment de bruh
The jarbeings have a seal on their forehead that look like radagon's and marika's soreseal overlapped, so they could be two different shamans that merged or unmerged at somepoint.
This is why Godrick can graft other body parts to himself.
@@joesaiditstrue you're right, and we do find jars in stormveil
@@pilebunker420except the shamans are only female
Interesting theory... But, there's something worth thinking about: In the base game, when you fight Radagon. You clearly see Marika's corpse fall from the cross (the rune) and transform into Radagon's corpse being controlled by the Elden Beast. You see her hair turn from gold, to red, before you fight. I think this shows us that Marika never got rid of Radagon. She's always retained the ability to transform into him... even in death. They've always remained 1. The Elden Beast even uses this ability while controlling Marika's corpse.
Miquella, on the other hand, removed St. Trina from his physical form and dropped her into the fissure. I have no idea why St. Trina looks like a strangely, beheaded flower mutant. But with that, Miquella permanently removed a part of himself "love" that physically manifested into whatever it is St. Trina looks like. There's indication that this was a violent removal of part of his physical form as well. In order to find St Trina, you're literally following a trail of her blood (the blood manifests as purple flowers). The flowers are called the Nectarblood Burgeon.
Miquella has no physical form after he becomes a god, in his own way. He basically has to take Radahn's spirit, and Mogh's body, and control them through his charms.
Marika does still have her physical form after becoming a god. She marries and even has children with Godfrey and Renalla, before she... basically marries herself. Marika physically plays the role of the mother (when she's Marika married to Godfrey), and the father (when she's Radagon married to Renalla), in the act of giving birth on multiple occasions. You can't do that without a physical form. So Marika and Miquella's paths to godhood weren't identical. And the end results weren't identical.
Remember as well, Marika was also aided by the Fingers, who gave her the Erdtree seed. Miquella, was just doing his own thing through his charms. So, the results are different because the process is different.
A strange thing about Marika/Radagon... I don't recall anything that talks about them both being present at the same time. There's a church on the eastern side of Liurnia where you learn about the marriage ceremony between Radagon and Renalla. But there was no such ceremony between Marika and Radagon.
When Marika is sealed inside the Ertree, Radagon also vanishes. No one knows what happened to Radagon, until you enter the Erdtree and see Marika's corpse transform into him (controlled by the Elden Beast). This is why the "Marika IS Radagon" is such a plot twist in the base game. Just my 2 cents.
Yup, seems about right
I thought his point was that she did initially divest herself of Radagon, then Radagon eventually found her again? Maybe that is partially why Miquella left St. Trina in such a difficult place to escape?
I doubt that Marika could pull off a Bruce Wayne/Batman while she was with Godfrey and Radagon with Rennala, i think that she divided her body in 2 and when she was trpped in the Erdtree Radagon fused with her again
Radagon rune is what we see in the thorns preventing us from entering, that's part of why radagon hasn't been seen as well.
Radagon has always been a separate being from marika. No where in the dlc was radagon even mention. Some might argue with miquella but his case is different and much more special.
Unlike Marika, Miquella had already started his path to godhood with his haligtree. His initial plan for it was to allow him to break his curse of eternal youth and be reborn anew as a god/order of sorts and he succeeded. Many of the items of in the base game describing St.Trina mention her sudden appearance and disappearance as well as the fact she eventually became an adult, (St.Trina Torch). Mogh action of removing him from his tree and poisoning him with his blood kill him and he departed to the land of shadow. The land of shadow is the afterlife and to many items point to this fact.
@@MiguelSanchezDelVillar When Marika (in Radagon form) was with Renalla, there are these items... it's called the Mask of Confidence. It states:
"When Radagon married Rennala, he ordered the Carian magic preceptors to don these masks. To make it clear that all of their matters were to be kept strictly private."
It's not explicitly stated. But, I think that secret they had to keep was that Radagon IS Marika... or at least something along those lines. I don't think this was something Marika necessarily hid from Renalla, or Godfrey. This is just me assuming at this point, though.
So, let me get this straight...
Marika's people are slaughtered by Hornsent, she takes revenge and seeks Godhood
She divests herself of her flesh, becomes spiritual, this flesh becomes Radagon either now or later
Marika, now a god, has two children. Messmer and Melina. We don't know their father, but it could be Radagon or The Fell God.
Marika leaves Messmer to prosecute her vengeance and leaves The Land of Shadow
She meets Godfrey, choses him as her Consort and Elden Lord, has three kids, Morgott, Mohg, and Godwin
Radagon, now reborn, comes to the Lands Between. He likely becomes Marika's general, after banishing Godfrey, as he was leading her armies when he fell in love with Rennalla
Radagon has three kids, who wind up divine because Radagon is technically also a god, and thus Ranni, Radahn, and Rykard are born
However, possibly as part of their plan, or possibly just because Radagon was drawn to return to Marika, Radagon and Rennalla break up
Marika and Radagon marry, with him becoming the new Elden Lord and her new consort. Two new kids, Miquella and Melania
Marika however has begun to despair of her godhood. Imprisoned by her divinity, she sets Hewg and the Tarnished to send someone to kill her
Marika even rejoins her body with Radagon to give the Tarnished something to kill. She smashes the Elden Ring as an act of defiance
I recall that Radagon tried to fix the Elden Ring, so even fused, their minds are separate, and Radagon may still be loyal to their godhood, sort of an inversion of how St Trina was opposed to Miquella's
Of their children, various learn of how to become a god. Both Ranni and Miquella are inspired to try
Melina may be tied up in this somewhere. She's spiritual, having lost her body, and might be the one helping Ranni? Maybe she's just trying to help kill Marika?
Ranni divests her flesh using the Rune of Death. Miquella just carves it off piece by piece
Miquella becomes a monster, controlling people, using Mohg and reviving Radahn
Ranni murders Godwin, but otherwise is just trying to be free from this whole mess
And the Tarnished eventually kills Marika and brings about the new age, whatever choice they make
Don't forget the elden lord was sent away, The rolls of the fingers, the empyreans born to replace Marika, and only through her will ,that we have Grace.
Also that Ranni’s life is essentially what Marika would pick if she could have a redo.
Ranni has a mother who loves her, supportive family, treated like a princess by those around her but earns that respect.
Doesn’t abandon things like love & loyalty in the path to godhood.
Doesn’t separate destined death from the new process.
Even limits her rule to 1000 years. A remarkably short time in this game.
Forges a path with no one but her loyal consort to keep company.
After all godhood is a prison.
Not beholden to the Greater Will instead joins the stars where she may end up fighting the Greater Will more directly.
I mean when I realized all this after reading the Minor Erdtree incantation I was floored.
Completely changed all of the endings to me.
Marika wins regardless of ending but Ranni’s is her own perfect ending.
but i remember that melina said that she was born at the hearth of the erdtree
@@jeysonfritz9613 Hmmm. That's a good point. I knew I'd missed something in all this.
"I was born at the foot of the Erdtree. Where mother gave me my purpose."
I think there's also some evidence that Messmer knew Radahn too, so maybe Marika went back and forth, and she sealed off the Land of Shadow much later on?
I could have sworn that the shattering happened after the Night of the Black Knives or w/e. I remember it being portrayed that Godwyn was beloved by Marika and that is directly the reason for her destroying the rune.
Also, Ranni pretty explicitly states she didn't want to be under the influence of the Fingers and the Greater Will anymore, she wasn't trying to ascend to godhood.
Radagon’s Icon says “thus did the hero aspired to be complete.” If Radagon is the pieces of a once complete pre-godhood Marika, this completeness could be more overt, in that he literally wanted to complete his being.
*aspire
Marika was Marika first she came from the this other world. The Horned people native to this land capture women and turn them into Shamen who tend the Jars. The Jars are to torture and essentially reduce criminal into a paste and shove them into the Jars. It’s a spiritual belief of those that worship the crucible that all things are one and by combining many criminals into a single vessel they become better than they were. However making a Shamen is also a brutal affair as you need soft hands to tend the jars. So they whip the captured women until their skin becomes tenderized. Marika escapes them and becomes a God, escapes to The Lands Between where she finds a new religion counter to the Crucible. Fast Forward some time later and she returns to bring bloody vengeance upon the people that destroyed her village and tortured her for their cruel religious practices. It was labeled as a crusade but when you know what happened to her this was really just an excuse for Revenge.
Interesting take. It is more in line with the coalescence of the Hermetic Alchemical Marriage (centripetal), than the fission of the Monad into dualities (centrifugal).
@@Broomer52Oh no, it's even worse. The shamans, AKA the Numens, have a unique physiology that allows them to meld with the flesh of others, similar to how plants can easily accept grafts from other plants. So, the Hornsent began capturing and torturing these Numen with instruments like the Tooth Whip, leaving festering sores full of puss all across their bodies, then they'd cram them into great pots along with any other undesirables and seal them up. A spirit NPC outside Bonny Village next to the Tooth Whip says something to the effect of 'Get in the pot now. This is the lot of you shamans. Nigh-sainthood awaits you.' Either the Hornsent were trying to use the Numen to create a Saint, i.e. a powerful and divine being, or they were saying that they considered the Numens so lowly that the only way they could be redeemed in their eyes was by submitting to being crammed inside these pots and serving as jar-warriors.
The Greater Potentates of Bonny Village all carry Butcher Knives intended for human flesh, and they all wear the same headwear as the Hornsent NPC, implying that said Hornsent is a Greater Potentate, and that all Greater Potentates in Bonny Village are Hornsent as well, hence Marika's hatred of them leading to Messmer's war of extermination against the Hornsent and the Golden Order's rejection of the Omens.
@@Broomer52 Tarnished Instrumentality Project
Bruh that overlaying showing the vetruvian man blew my fucking mind
I actually said “fuck off!” out of astonishment when I saw that image. 🤣
I’ve thought about da Vinci and elden for the longest this is the first video I’ve seen of someone mentioning it but mostly Mona Lisa being a self portrait of himself as a woman he was a follower of the divine feminine def worth a read on it!
Yo for real! Same here
Its that obvious thing thats been staring us in the face the entire time.
so simple yet now realize how it was there all along with marika crucifixion and radagon pose
The thing about Marika's ascension is that the trailer implies it went differently than expected. It speaks of a betrayal while she is pulling the golden threads from a corpse. The threads that she then seems to use to ascend to godhood. She also has no lord with her at the moment, which makes me wonder, if the creature she killed was supposed to be the god of the new age and she was to be the lord. In that case, Radagon would be the vessel corpse and she would be the soul. It still works with the theory that Radagon is the body and Marika is the spirit, but in a different way.
this is just a theory, but radagon didn't used to have red hair before the fire giants cursed him, maybe his hair color was blonde before which was the corpse marika pulled the golden hair out of? But that still doesn't explain if it's possible to have 2 consorts for as Godfrey is the first to become elden lord, or maybe she changed consorts after she went to the lands between.
@matterixo There's no confirmation he was cursed by the giants. If anything the Giants Red Braid hints he's part giant.
"Every Giant is red of hair, and Radagon is said to have hated his own red locks. Perhaps that was the curse of their kind."
To me that implies he's part giant, Not they they cursed him. If it said "from their kind" I'd agree with you.
Idk where the theory about him being cursed by giants with red hair comes from. Because if it's from the red Braid description... The theory doesn't make sense to me
The betrayal was talking about the fingers and Marika. The fingers were abandoned by their mother metyr who gained an obsession with communicating with the great will after thousands of years of silence, she broke down and left her children to fend for themselves and the fingers in turn gained an obsession with motherhood, they latch onto potential Empyreans for their own sake and they tricked Marika into thinking the greater will was active during this time, without realising that the Greater Will moved on after creation into who knows where and the outer gods were left fighting for rulership over it's creation, the fingers used this moment to bend history to whatever they wanted Marika was just too obsessed with her vengeance she didn't see the signs, the bitch only figured it out years later probably at a time when Radagon, Ranni or Miquella found out about the truth, since Marika helped Ranni kill Godwyn (most likely even Gidwyn knew of the ploy he was the favourite and with Miquella and Malenia knowing then yeah it's more likely he knew) a ploy to kill the fingers and the influence of the outer gods, they didn't have beef with the greater will cause it was never the greater will's fault and most of Ranni and Marika's anger were geared against the fingers; all of them were offsprings of the greater will it simply meant they had the same potential as Metyr and the Elden beast to ascend into that level of power which Ranni proved in her route.
It's possible that she had Godfrey at this point. In the black castle near the golden tree in the courtyard you find the Lord's Bestowal talisman, which is Godfrey accepting to be Marika's lord. Not sure if she asked this before or after her ascension, but Godfrey was present in these lands.
@@yamatonoryuujin4871 What exactly are the fingers doing anyway? Is the power of gold and thus grace originating from them? This is nagging so much in the back of mind, since Metyr doesn't have any "gold" powers and if I had to guess the gold powers originate from the crucible since they are similar. The only thing that hints towards the fingers having power over both, glintstone and gold, is the fact you can cast incants+sorceries with Metyr's staff.
Like before the dlc I just assumed the fingers were also the ones bestowing the power of gold and grace, but now I am not too sure anymore given their appearance and that they actually never had contact with the greater will at all.
"marika never speaks" marika speaks through melina at most associated churches in the base game and it's some of the most standout dialogue in the game imo
Yeah I do love when melina quotes Marika... Typical Fromsoft world building 😊
Queen Marika never speaks?🤔 We all know the door to enter the tree is locked...it's authoritarian🤭
@mpbobs9379 oh well maybe demigods and gods can misplace their keys too... good thing we know a rather...hot locksmith hehehehehe
"Echoes of Queen Marika linger here" its things shes said in the past. She never actually says anything in the game
@@tomburgess8485 phrase it how you want the dialogue is heard loud and clear
Radagon is just T-Posing his dominance
They just had bad time at the end of development. So the T pose was the move.
A person of culture!!
T-pose to assert godhood
Even Master Goldmask died while in the Pose of Power...it was just too much for him.
Saint Trina was miquella's love discarded, I'd imagine thats why marika abandoned Messmer because she discarded 'humanity' and didn't feel like a loving mother to him after becoming a god.
I’d agree with you if he didn’t have the Abyssal Serpent fused to his soul.
They tell you in game context that the reason she did that was because Messmer was born with the serpent within him and his crimson flame. He undertook Marika's wish to crusade throughout the shadow realm , but her new "perfect order" would've been threatened if Messmer stayed due to his "impurities". Marika acted as a human with the power of a God, flaws were going to be a given clearly
@@dillasoul2228 Marika wanted to create a pure world built on impure actions. The irony.
If she wasn't a loving mother than why would she shatter the elden ring after her son godwyn dies?
The shattering was before Godwyns death. Godwyn got his own Rune =Rune of the Death prince. And he only could be killed by stealing fragments of Malikeths Rune of Death. The Black Knife was Crafted by these fragments to kill him.Maliketh became Gurranq because of the shame he felt after Godwyns death.@@ramoraid
This makes Ranni's achievement in the Age of Stars all the more amazing: she becomes goddess without giving up on her feelings. Yeah, she may had to leave everyone apnd everything behind but, at the end, she still holds her heart (aka her feelings) at the start of her voyage.
The night of black knives is her literally doing exactly what marika and miquella did to ascend, tho she yeeted her corporeal flesh
@@eligibledark0036 Using the power of death also clearly killed her flesh fully, her charred corpse clearly isn't getting up to any shenanigans like St. Trina and perhaps by sacrificing Godwyn's soul in the same moment she managed to sidestep the requirement of giving up spiritual aspects of herself?
@thomasparkin259 Not really, Ranni simply resigned herself to the dark moon which has been stated to be an untrustworthy entity.
Even count Ymir said that the carians only worship/idolise the moons because they're the closest celestial bodies in distance. Count Ymir even implies worship of celestial bodies leads to the worship of the greater will. Ranni basically does nothing in her ending.
@@eligibledark0036 Ranni's got no blood on her hands, it's just that those Numen folk are complete wildcards
@@User-es3emmost people forget. The site of graces originated from the Erdtree as a way to guide the Tarnished. The site of graces at the Carian Manor guide you to Ranni. Meaning the Erdtree approves what Ranni is doing as well. In the end she plays straight into the hands of the very gods she despises.
i do feel like a lot of elden ring lore content is lacking thematic analysis, which i get from your stuff! to me Elden Ring seems to be about the prison of godhood, the endless cycle of striving to achieve it, corrupting the world, and begging for release. In Miquella we see a parallel to Marika, and in St Trina we see the grieving, restless (ironically) conscience of Miquella, begging to be stopped from achieving godhood. To be freed from the responsibility and weight of it all. It's fitting, then, that we as a character are mostly stripped of agency - usually taking the role of the Elden Lord and ushering in another's aspirational vision for the next thousand year voyage. We are Tarnished, the catalyst of decay and destruction, the inciting agent of a new prison for a new god. The consort of whatever comes next. Our role is essentially Consort Radahn's role, and at the end of the DLC, in a sense, we fight an incarnation of our own purpose and futility. A mindless manifestation of war and violence.
this .. entirely threw all the souls games. At the end of it all, the final boss is you. A monster out for blood, to control the world, to host the dream, and be divinity, untill another tries to stop you, as your character did to end the last cycle.
Very spot on analysis, but you can always let chaos take the world and avoid being someone’s consort 🤣
Excellent video! I think you figured it out. This video really just unlocked a whole new understanding of Elden Ring for me. I have been theorizing that Radagon may have been her abandoned flesh and first consort but I couldn't determine why Marika would need that to be the case, but you figured it out! This video is going to be a huge inspiration for me moving forward.
My man Jack.
can't wait for your vid
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽!! I’ve waited years for this answer and stumbled across this video looking for arteia leaf farming spot 😅😅. To me this is the equivalent of finding that secret recipe grandma wouod never share.
The theory doesn't work. We know why Ranni, and subsequently Miquella divested themselves of their flesh- To sever their connection to the greater will/Marika's bloodline. Ranni is explicite about this reasoning, and Miquella is implied.
It is not implied to be required for the gate of divinity, and that's a pretty huge leap, that directly contradicts Ranni/Miquella's motivations for doing so.
right after you said "she had suffered long enough" something falls off Marika's eye like a teardrop.
I noticed that too! A crazy coincidence
Timestamp
@@lemon16313:43
@moza7378 thank you 🙏
This makes a lot of sense. Ranni divested herself of her flesh as well, inhabiting a puppet of the one she idolized, which was clearly an important step toward allowing her to rise to godhood under the full moon.
In before someone theorized that Godwyn is Ranni's other self....
@@jaredcullum117 i suppose she sacrificed he body with destined death also to not have a Radagon and Marika rebis situation or as with miquella and st Trina
She did so to sever her connection to the greater will. She explicitly says so during her quest. Miquella did so for the same reason, though it's more heavily implied than outright said like with Ranni.
Marika's accension was with connection to the greater will, and as such, she had no need to cast off her flesh. This theory doesn't work. It's never implied that it's a prereequisite for passing through the gate of divinity.
@@saint3614 Melina also lost her body under unspecified circumstances, and her ultimate purpose was to burn the Erdtree, pretty much the greatest act of betrayal to the Greater Will there can be. So yeah, the idea of casting away ones flesh seems to be exclusively tied to disconnecting oneself to whatever god they are bound to.
I'm sure she did it to avoid godhood and prevent the Greater Will from using her, essentially severing her connection with the Greater Will.
I might agree with this, except St. Trina is divested from Miquella in whole- if wilting -form, and Miquella does not want St. Trina back at all. Also, Melina's recital of the "not yet become me" tale is rather encompassing of Marika and Radagon's relationship prior to their merging. There's no mention of prior association between Radagon and Marika. Plus Miquella acquires Radahn as the physical manifestation of his order, which suggests that regression/convergence is not a prerequisite for the physical manifestation.
It's not IMPOSSIBLE that Radagon is Marika's original flesh, but that's a lot of layers of heritage (Radagon being descended from fire giants, Marika being the last of the shaman) to dig through, and I'm not sure it survives Occam's Razor.
Interesting theory though.
The only reason why radagon has red hair was because he was cursed by the fell giant outer god
Which is why he hates his red hair
I dont think he descended from them
The outer gods have cursed a ton of marika’s offspring, similar to the morgot brothers born with the fell omen curse,
With Messmer in the picture I have more doubt then ever that we should interpret the red hair association as some sort of hint radagon is a fire giant. It seems that they didnt like their red hair because giants also had red hair.
the description in the original Japanese seems to make it very clear that Radagon did not originally have red hair and this is in fact a curse from the giants against him, probably meaning that his son (Messmer) would be born cursed with fire aspects just like his younger sister
@@pockethugoodss That is not the reason he has red hair. The item that mentions radagon hair say it is a curse of their kind. not that they cursed radagon with red hair.
@@ramoraid it is my interpretation of the description
Seeing that all marika’s children have shaman lineage they are most likely better candidates for an outer god to thrive in but yeah mesmer shares more qualities with the fel god if anything
My theory is that Marika used her own body as a vessel for Radagon. Judging by the statues in Enir-Ilim, the ritual involves the fusing of two beings through the "spiral"(the divinity aspect). The ritual itself might consist in having one empyrean to cast away their flesh and cross the gate in soul, and the lord to sacrifice his flesh and inhabit the discarded empyrean flesh. Then have the empyrean return from the gate as a god in the vessel, with the 2 coexisting in a "divine spiral". That's why we see Marika in the trailer with her dress pulled down (characteristics of Radagon) and with more androgynous features. I feel we were seeing Radagon in Marika's body calling back Marika in divine form.
As for who Radagon was, I think he could have been a hornsent warrior, an ascetic or an inquisitor. I say that cause he has Lot of characteristics connected to the hornsent culture.
1) in Sote we find red bears named Ralva and Rugalea, and Rauh's ruins, all sounding similar to Radagon, a red haired warrior, with connections to the misbegotten, able to smith the elden ring itself (maybe involving smithscripting) or reforge Rennala's sword into hard light, similar to the inquisition staffs.
2) He is described as a "leal hound" and a stoic man who lives by following and imposing strict rules. All traits of an Hornsent ascetic, a man who wanted to achieve divinity and completeness. Even the divine beast warriors are described as "vessels for the divine", what Radagon basically is. Besides that, he is the one who created the current of fundamentalism, which eventually acted as inquisitors of the golden order. Perhaps it all came from his culture.
3)his dress when we fight him is reminescent of the hornsent ascetics clothes. his hair are red, typical of animals closer to the crucible itself. the giant association probably comes from the modern people of the lands between not knowing of the effects of the crucible. he is also one of the few enemies that doesn't stagger as we fight him, together with the crucible knights, who might just be hornsent warriors in the service of godfrey. both him and Enir-ilim warriors use a mixture of heavy and quick moves, both manifesting solid light in their combat, with the hornsent creating horns of pure light.
5) the hornsent barbs incantations are similar to Radagon's ring of lights, albeit the latter seem a more perfected version of the incantations. but returning on the topic of barbs, the latter are used by Radagon to seal the erdtree, are associated with him and are commonly used on criminals or prisoners of the golden order. then we have the sewing patterns, symbol of Radagon. this is a stretch in my opinion, but Midras' is filled with stitches from his tortures and his greatsword, once an inquisitor staff, is shaped like a golden needle. his ash of war is even described as reminescent of the golden order, for some reason.
I believe Radagon was a hornsent divine warrior, wishing to become a vessel of a god or to achieve divinity. maybe in his religious fanaticism he wanted to bring absolute order to nature itself, considering Radagon's hate for his hair. Marika took advantage of that desire, completed the ritual with him and hen betrayed the hornsent for the golden order.
i LOVE the vitruvian man imagery i never even thought of that. makes so much sense.
Miquella's journey reminds me of Inanna's descent into the Underworld, as interpreted in the light of Jungian psychology as a journey towards completion through a ritual death and rebirth. And I don't think divesting yourself of anything makes you more complete as such, but rather that through that journey you acquire the ability to re-integrate that which you divested yourself of, in order to achieve completion. The question is, did that journey fail for those who attempted it in this story? Godhood in this universe does not seem to be a desirable fate.
We don't know how many gods there were before. I'd say the process itself is still flawed and is missing something important, exactly what you said: after all of that they'd need to re-integrate what they sacrificed, but at that point I doubt any being would care or be capable of doing that.
Unfortunately, the descent of Inanna is misunderstood by most who use it as an example. It's a lesson in going too far. Inanna is rescued by her father who sends sexless beings to save her, and then she returns to punish her consort who did nothing to help her. She also made her consort stay in the Underworld for six months out of the year. It has nothing to do with re-integrating anything, and everything to do with having friends in high places who think outside the box to save your ass.
I disagree. I think Miquella divested himself of both his body and passions specifically because Marika didn't do that and it lead to ruin. As Ymir says, Marika was doomed to fail because her roots were rotten, but Miquella recognized it and decided to cut them out.
This. Miquella is both following in her mother's footsteps AND trying to correct her mistakes (only to abandon something critical, his love). Their appearances are vastly different too: he is clearly ethereal, while she seems made out of stone. In the trailer, when she's at the Divine Gate, she appears fully corporeal. As Goldmask's rune reveals, gods are fickle because they're not so different than humans. Miquella was fully tying to overcorrect that.
Ymir was talking about Metyr.
@@deliii395Ymir states that both failed, Marika and the finger mother specifically if I recall correctly.
Yes, i agree. I believe Miquella thought the problem was Marika’s connection to the physical world. Ymir also supports the idea that miquella felt any connection to his mother would taint his age.
@@deliii395doesnt ymir say what is a child to do when they discover their mother is the problem.
Radagon was a Giant/beastman of some sort (perhaps both at different times) he used the Rune of the Unborn to change himself. It's the point of the Boc questline, to show you what Radagon did out of similar feelings Boc had. It's why the beast chimeras are called his children in the game files (Like how we knew Melina was Marika's daughter even though that was obvious too) and why the Red Wolf of Radagon exists, his beastman lineage.
@@UnlovedWarlock Interesting theory, but I don’t think that explain why Marika and Radagon would have the same body. The existence of St. Trina really makes me think that Radagon was a part of Marika that she discarded to become a god.
I’ve been thinking about this for a long time…..I always thought due to how little history radagon had he was once part of Marika but they split and then became one again at a later point
wasn't that like common knowledge in the fucking entirety of the game ??? that marika and radagon were the same
Yes, but the point you seem to miss is whether they were one being to begin with who later split and then rejoined, or if they were always one being the whole time, never split, always like 2 sides of a coin, like Miquella and st. Trina
@@LHSPRIDE i haven’t played the dlc so i dont even know who is saint trina. So marica splitted after being shattered ? Only into radagon or in another pieces too ?
@@bomnitoperro9422 Yes, it is common knowledge that they are the same person/ sharing a body. What the original commenter meant, is that it was never clear if Radagon was always a part of marika, that she split off at some point - like miquella st. trina- to then reabsorb him later again, or if Radagon was an actual different person to marika before they fused together.
@@bomnitoperro9422 Saint Trina was referenced a ton in item descriptions in the base game, most lore youtubers figured out she was Miquella's other half similar to Marika/Radagon
the best lore i head so far! no random jargons used or anything as such!
clear, crisp and on point
i feel i understand the game/lore better now! thanks alot
I've been thinking about the Numen a lot too. I prepped a character to RP as a Numen for the DLC and after getting to shaman village and finding person in the tree, I feel so strongly that's a Numen. The shaman were also used to full the warrior jars, and if you look at the fleshy bloated enemies that fit in jars, their features are what I'd expect a Numen to look like. Food for thought anyways
I think their hair is a dead giveaway. As we can see from the emphasis on red/golden hair of characters and their lineage, hair color carries great importance in the world of Elden Ring. The silver colored hair of the Numen can be seen in the character creation and the statue in the Shaman Village, and the hair of the tumorous pot enemies is a very similar shade
So the only issue I've got is that the braid in the shaman village is golden kinda implying that Marika was born Marika and later became Radagon.
Yeah I don’t get this part. And also where does that put Radagon and Marika on the timeline? How does radagon bang rennala, while marika is riding godfrey? Its so confusing.
I think he's kind of off tbh
The Fire Giant Whip says that maybe Radagon's red hair comes from a curse of the fire giants, he could have been blonde at the begining
Radagon is an aspect of marika made manifest in a corporeal form very much like st. trina is an aspect of miquella that manifested itself and then was disconnected from the whole
Edit: although, the lore leaves it quite open for personal interpretation as it is somewhat implied that radagon was part giant (or somehow inherited the giant's Red hair)
Thats cuz Marika and Radagon share a soul and thats pretty much where the connection ends. For most of their existence they are two separate people, each with their own desires, agendas and personalities. The only point in which they were a single body was before they split and then within the erdtree as a punishment by the Elden Beast.
To me Marika and Radagon are a direct mirror to Cersei and Jamie Lannister, with the whole selfcest and everything (as Cersei and Jamie viewed eachother as one person).
In this scenario Godfrey would be the stand in for Robert Baratheon and its likely he knew Radagon from his time acting as the first elden lord, as Radagon was a champion of the erdtree and probably a retainer in Marika's house.
Now if Radagon ever loved Marika and vise versa, thats debatable. I believe he liked Rennala more than he did Marika, but they still had four children together. This too might reflect on Cersei and Jamie, where they share an almost supernatural connection due to their bond as a singular soul.
In summary: One soul, two people
I came to this video after watching the one you dropped today. Fantastic work. As someone with a background in literature and composition, you have made some very solid inferences with the scant information From has given us to work with.
Somewhere out there, Miyazaki is either very impressed, or very frustrated, that you nailed it!
😊
This video is insanely well put out and makes so much sense
I think it’s interesting that the Elden ring remains in her womb, and in the story trailer for shadow of the red tree we see Marika pulling golden strands from what looks like a womb. I’d like you to explore that!
the Radahn and Miquella plot has Martin fingerprints all over it
Radahn confirmed powerbottom
Radagon conformed to be " woke ". 😂
@@elijahherstal776 imagine if its true. Its like a 10 year old trying to move a big couch all on its own.
Miquella is too much like Griffith, I think it's a lot more like Miyasaki's writing here. But godwyn would make more sense anyways
Was it the gay incest that gave it away?
Marika doesn't want Hewg to craft a weapon to kill her, she wants the tarnished to kill Radagon (her current consort). Rodrika mentions the weapon is for Marika, but remember: she's totally unaware that Radagon is Marika (as well as being her Consort). Here's the thing though, she sent the tarnished on this journey to become her consort before she was locked up in the erdtree. Meaning, killing Radagon isnt gonna save Marika, she's done at this point (the game kinda lets you know this when her head completely falls off). This is why the Elden Beast spawns after Radagon dies: The vassal of the Elden Ring has been released upon the death of Marika+Radagon
So, then do you think Hewg is aware that Radagon is Marika?
You are very much correct in this sense, and most fail to grasp that what remains of Marika and Radagon are not really people but basically empty husks. Though Radagon being second Elden Lord should have been known to everybody, including Rodrika
Does Marika want us to become her consort? She stays a broken, empty statue even after we re-head her. But Ranni promises her something different as her head disintegrates in the best ending. I think Marika realized she was a slave to the Greater Will, and wanted us to free her, the only way a vessel of the Golden Order could be freed.
Whether we are riding up to Ranni’s door or the Three Fingers’, Marika’s grace continues to point the way forward. No guidance points to the mending runes, though there is one nearby in Godwyn’s case.
Killing Radagon, kills Marika. They share a soul. This is evident after killing Miquella. If you go back to visit St Trina she is dead on the ground and leaves St Trina’s Blossom headgear.
So essentially Marika is guiding the tarnish back to her to kill Radagon and end her reign/imprisonment as a god
@@dodiswatchbobobo the dlc showed she wasn't a slave to anything. The greater will left before Marika became a god.
I always thought the butterflies were fragments of Marika and Radagon "shattering" themselves to become one. The pieces left over became Miquella, Malenia, and Melina.
Now this makes me think Messmer and Melina could have been born from the fragments of Marika originally divesting herself and Radagon. While the other two Ms were born from the re-merger later on.
That's an interesting thought
That's a really interesting idea. I mean just look at how Malenia's scarlet bloom produced 5 daughters. Is it unreasonable to assume Marika could do something similar?
There are descriptions in shadows of the erdtree that talk about messmer’s sister that is almost certainly melina
I think this explains why Radagon suddenly left Renalla. Marika was tired of being a god, so she called to her other self and forced him to come back to become one again
Hey! Got this video recommended by YT, I like your style! Keep up the good work, you have a new sub :D
Great video! I’ve been wondering about Ranni’s situation since more lore came out of the DLC, and the implications of her and Godwyn’s simultaneous deaths on her being as a whole and if the Tarnished chose to, her ascension to godhood!
I’m seriously impressed with your work. Subbed.
Much appreciated!
Age of Order, has always been my favorite, blocking changes to the Elden Ring means we (the Lord) essentially take over in whatever way see fit. Though I can see FS pushing for the Ranni ending to be canon. Not only do we see Grace guiding us towards it but also just the amount of extra work/effort they put into it shows that.
Also I wonder with Marika/Radagon's body being made of stone is that suggesting their age being 'ancient', seems to be a FS thing to show something ancient as having stone skin (looking at you ancient dragons and turtle Pope).
Age of Order is second best, imo, because you are only forestalling decline of the world
@@julesknight1511Ahh, what is to be human.
All endings are canon, you also get guided to the chaos flame ending, even to the dungeater ending
T-pose for the win
I dont buy that Marika had to divest herself same as miquella. After Messmer was born the FEAR of the abyssal snake in his eye made her secret him away. Miquella did all that to divide himself from the erdtree and the original sin. Marika failed at making the golden order exactly because she still had all this fears, doubt, fate(radagon). Yet even divesting himself of all this things doesnt help because as Yimir says, it because the mother is flawed. Trina mentions that godhood is a caged divinity and perhaps thats why a god needs a lord? to act as the hand outside the cage.
She didn't. Miquella (As with Ranni) does so to sever connection to the greater will. The motivation for Marika to do the same is entirely absent, and even contradictory to her goal at the time.
Why do people take what Ymir says at face value? He’s clearly biased towards Metyr. It’s the same concept as just taking Enia and the two fingers at face value just because they say something does not mean it is inherently true.
I think the assassination of Godwyn was the breaking point for her and she realized that everything she’d done had led up to this point and she just wanted to end it all so in a fit of grief and sorrow she shattered the Elden Ring and commissioned Hewg to forge a weapon that could kill her. Not necessarily in that order.
Agreed
This wouldn't be the first story GRR Martin wrote where a character viewed as a villain turns out to be a more nuanced wreck and decides everything and everyone has to go along with her/him.
Cersei Lannister, Damon Julian, Royd Eris' mother, Edan Morse just from what I've read
What’s the weapon
@@naturalLin whatever weapon you fully upgrade would be my guess
Wasn't expecting a Tarnished Archeologist video. Earned yourself a subscriber.
I think Miquella divested himself because he wanted completly a new era. That's why he had to get rid of from his golden flesh.
Also we can see St. Trina as physically. Miquella didn't divest Trina. He divested her from himself.
It was to this land that Miquella departed.
Divesting himself of his flesh, his strength, his lineage.
Of all things Golden.
Ranni also does same. She wants a new era, that's why she only kills her body. Because she didn't want to slave to Golden Order. Otherwise, she could easily reach to Godhood.
Lastly, I suppose Marika don't want to kill herself. She might ordered a weapon to kill a God for Radagon. Because in the end we kill Radagon not Marika. Marika stays as God and we became her lord.
Just as Marika wanted.
I’m not entirely sure Marika wanted us to become her lord. Ranni picks up her disintegrating head in the best ending and promises her that things will be different. I think Marika wanted to be freed from the Golden Order, too.
Killing Radagon, kills Marika. They share a soul. Just like when we kill Miquella, if you go back to St Trina she is dead on the ground. Because she shares a soul with Miquella
Umm. No. That's why our Tarnished is unique. The title of Elden Lord was given by the manifestaion of the greater will itself, the Elden Beast, not Marika. We ascend to godhood in a very strange way, no other like us before. We aren't a consort of someone else, no maiden. That's why the age of fractured is my headcanon. Because that's how the game supposed to end. We breaks the tradition. Even Ranni's ending, no matter how you think it, is very similar to Marika's way
@@chakravartin3356 …But the Age of Fracture is still an ending where you mend the Elden Ring and restore the Golden Order. You just don’t add an extra mending rune, so it’s even more of the old ways than the other endings. You don’t become a god, you become Marika’s consort, except she’s a broken statue who can’t rebel anymore, just like in all the endings except Ranni and Chaos. The Elden Beast doesn’t give you your title, that glowing stone statue does when you put its head back on.
In Ranni’s ending, the Elden Ring is dissolved, the Greater Will’s grip on the Lands Between is severed, and the Dark Moon, the Outer God that Ranni gives the Lands Between over to in the process of forging a new Ring and Order, leaves on a thousand year journey with Ranni and the Tarnished. Meaning the other Outer Gods will follow if they want to take that power for themselves. The Lands Between are safe and free from meddling. The people must find their own strength and make their own fates.
@@dodiswatchbobobo broken statue, not Marika. That's why it's unique. You like it or not, Ranni still use the same method with the previous gods. Just like Marika and Placidusax god who made him elden lord. The God need strength of physical form, and so the physical form become the elden lord. What i mean different is, We become the Elden Lord of nobody. We answer directly to the greater will, not through the god.
Beside, isn't that the greater will didn't intervene anything with the lands between, explained in the dlc? That makes Ranni's ending looks silly since she thought the greater will put too much influence 😂
We learn Marika is from the shaman village. An item description that makes me wonder
Tooth Whip
Whip bestrewn with rotting, misshapen teeth. Filthy and seething with disease, the teeth are embedded in the whip and dose the victim with deadly poison upon each strike.
As the wounds ripen they grow inflamed and ooze pus. The flesh of shamans was said to meld harmoniously with others.
Three words: Godrick the GRAFTED.
Makes me wonder where Godfrey came from. Was he born in the Land of Shadow? If so, was he related to Marika? I'm wondering this because I think Godfrey used this "binding" power to bind Serosh the Lion to himself.
And this is a bit of a stretch, but you could say that because we are Tarnished and related to him, perhaps we inherit this binding ability because we can bind Great Runes to ourselves. We can bind spells to ourselves.
Then again, Godfrey doesn't really need to bind anything or anyone to himself. After all, he embraces his old self, Hoarah Loux, by tearing Serosh and his chest armor and gauntlets off. Instead of fighting us with his axe, he starts using his hands and feet.
He bound Serosh to himself and took up the Axe to conduct himself as a Lord, for a wild beast of a man can't be seen as the King Consort of Queen Marika. He needs to be civilised, calm and composed, stoic and wise.
Mate
The super imposing of radagon and marika 🥰 10/10
I agree with Jack in regards to perspective changing lol you definitely have made it more difficult for me to picture Marika as traumatised queen capable of eating her babies like hamsters.
I have been trying to reconcile why messmers hair is red, either he was born of marika when her hair was red after being cursed by the giants and before radagons creation (which involves billion assumptions) or is radagons son (which requires a billion assumptions), and I feel like your "timeline" has kind of narrowed down things in my brain 😂
Well made, I enjoyed that 😁
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
I have a personal theory.
When Marika and Godfrey waged war against the Fire-Giants and the Fell-God, as well as the Gloam-Eyed Queen, Radagon is never mentioned, yet when Radagon does enter the story he loathes his red hair for its resemblance to the Fire Giants, and Marika has two children, Messmer and Melina, who both have red or reddish hair and an association with fire, while Messmer developed an association with the Abyssal Serpent and Melina supposedly developed an association with the Gloam-Eyed Queen based on the Frenzied Flame ending where she intends to deliver unto us Destined Death, which was previously the purview of the Gloam-Eyed Queen before Marika and Maliketh defeated her and claimed the Rune of Death for themselves.
My theory thus is that at some point, Marika picked up traces of these beings, and they manifested as Radagon, Messmer, and Melina. The birth of Messmer and Melina prompted Marika to separate those elements from herself in the form of Radagon, hence why Radagon and Godfrey are never identified as their father but Marika is undoubtedly their mother.
Radagon likewise purged himself of these influences by having children with Rennala, while also improving upon himself and the Golden Order by mastering Carian sorcery and incorporating it into the Golden Order's doctrine in accordance with the Law of Regression.
When Radagon and Marika joined together again, the Marika-Radagon Rebis was still impure and two distinct entities from one another, and so Miquella and Malenia were born to divest Marika-Radagon of those perceived flaws, yet Marika still considered Radagon to be imperfect; 'Thou art yet to become me. Thou art yet to become a god.' And thus did the two come into conflict after the Night of the Black Knives and the death of Godwyn, when Marika shattered the Elden Ring despite Radagon's attempts to stop her and mend it back together.
This is very good. Given the fluid nature of self and a person this is amazing and fills holes in my head canon.
let me poke some hole in your theory, how does malenia rot and miquella eneternal youth come into play? since both their "ailments" come from the god of rot, a god that we know marika never fought.
The fell god was clearly known way before messmer campaign(the fire golems lore) and the fire giant's never knew of it until the war against them was already underway.
@@ramoraid In the case of Malenia, it's mentioned she was born 'vulnerable' and the Outer God of Rot managed to take root inside her, which is probably similar to what happened with Messmer and Rykard; Marika and Radagon removed the influence of the Abyssal Serpent from themselves, but Rykard was still swayed by another serpent, the God-Devouring Serpent of Mt. Gelmir, which may be the true form of the Abyssal Serpent. So in that regard, the weakness of the 'Serpent' itself was purged, but the vulnerability to the influence of other gods like the Outer God of Rot was not, so when Malenia was born that vulnerability was purged with her and she suffered for it as the influence of the Outer God of Rot sealed in The Lands Between began to take root in her.
As for Miquella? I'd wager he represents something else, the purging of Marika and Radagon's childish qualities, namely their youthful innocence, dreams, kindness, and ability to charm and endear themselves to others with those qualities, hence why Miquella is cursed with eternal youth despite apparently not being claimed by an Outer God like Malenia and why his power is over the hearts of others. Put another way, Marika and Radagon were forcibly separating themselves from the things Miquella embodies that would hold them back, while simultaneously protecting those very qualities, hence why they were fond of Miquella and accepted him going off to do his own thing, even though Radagon should have objected with Miquella breaking away from the Golden Order and taking so many people with him.
On the topic of the Fell-God, the Fire Giants are ancient, and supposedly the art of smithing in The Lands Between traces its origins to them and their forge, which is fueled by the flames of the Fell-God. The giants as a race are also cursed by the Fell-God to act as its servants, with at least one giant always being forced to tend to the flames of the Fell-God and unable to leave. Breaking this covenant had dire consequences, as those giants who left the service of the Fell-God to side with the Carian Royal Family and the Golden Order had their chests hollowed out and they degenerated into trolls.
The Hornsent being aware of the Fell-God doesn't contradict this in any way, as the Hornsent and the Beastmen are also very old races that predate the Golden Order by quite a lot, so even if they never managed to interact with the Fire Giants directly, which seems unlikely given how there are apparently other ways to and from The Lands Between and the Land of Shadow, it's also distinctly possible that the Hornsent were simply aware of the existence of the Fell-God in some form.
In addition, we have little information about when exactly Messmer began his campaign in the Land of Shadow, but we know that Radahn's friend and childhood rival in the art of gravity magic, Commander Gaius, as well as Rennala's younger sister Rellana went with him, implying that Messmer was in The Lands Between with his family for some time before Marika sent him away, never to return, so realistically speaking Messmer would have left long after the war with the Fire Giants had concluded, and it's mentioned that Marika herself killed the Fell-God before she decreed that the last Fire Giant should be spared to tend the Forge and the Flame of the Fell-God for eternity, meaning whatever taint on her that the Fire Giants and the Fell-God might have left would have already been well and truly established.
Moreover, while they obviously don't have full control over them anymore, there are notes talking about the matter of maintaining and operating the Furnace Golems that seem to have been left by Messmer's soldiers, implying that they're the ones creating the Furnace Golems and using them to ravage the Hornsent. After all, Messmer's modus operandi is burning and impaling Hornsent en masse, so the Furnace Golems are the perfect weapon of war for him since they can be allowed to rampage freely across the Land of Shadow. It would also make even more sense if they were a creation of Messmer and his army, as undoubtedly there would be some veterans who had either fought the Fire Giants and the Fell-God during the war, or who heard stories of the war and managed to emulate the power and terror of the Fire Giants through the Furnace Golems. And if Messmer's war has been going on centuries, then the stories of the Hornsent about the Fell-God and the Furnace Golems supposedly crafted in its image could very well be regarded as ancient sagas.
So again, nothing about the Furnace Golems contradicts the notion that the Fire Giants and their pact with the Fell-God is not ancient. If anything, it actually further validates my theory as the entire reason Marika went to war with the Fire Giants in the first place was because they had access to the power of the Fell-God's fire, even if they weren't actively using it, which could burn down the Erdtree, the symbol of Marika's Golden Order. And the proof is that when Marika and Godfrey marched on the Mountaintop of the Giants, the Fire Giants used the Fell-God's power to fight back, meaning they had access to it and were ready to use it in the event of a war. There's also the matter of the ancient Astrologers that predated the Carian Royal Family and the Academy of Raya Lucaria were both aware of the Fire Giants and on friendly terms with them, while the ice-worshipping Zamor regularly came into conflict with the flame-worshipping giants, meaning the Fire Giants were recognized as such for centuries or even millennia before the arrival of Marika and Godfrey.
@@Brutalyte616wonderful tale, congratulations
@@onepiece666 I am uncertain if you're being genuine or condescendingly sarcastic.
Has anyone else ever referenced the Vitruvian man when theorizing about Marika/Radagon?? This is outstanding.
I did 2 years ago :) but that video didn't take off like this one for some reason
Well congrats on the quick success of this one…you’ve got a new sub in me.
Is Vitruvius man intended by the game developers or is it coincidence? If it is the Vitruvius man reference means nothing.
good video dude. A tip for taking it to the next level would be completely cutting out parts where it’s clear you stutter in your reading. It wasn’t terrible or anything but I just think it would enhance your videos in general. Thank you for lore mate
Great video, as always! Do you have any thoughts on the parallels between Saint Trina and the Anima Archetype?
During my playthrough I couldn't help but notice so many Jungian themes about Trina and her associated bossfight and levels.
(In my POV it feels like an attempted split from the Anima that resulted in the Anima becoming depressed and wishing for the Self (Miquella) to be killed)
Honestly before this video I was so confused by the whole Marika = Radagon situation and couldn't physically comprehend it as it was so abstract of a concept but now it makes so much more sense. Thank you for the enlightenment and also for this video in general!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent points about casting off the unwanted self. But to your point at 7:34, I actually don't think Ranni Achieved Godhood in her ending. Ansbach states that the Gate of Dinvinity is used to become a God and Ranni never does this. She and the Tarnished start a new age, but she herself never states that they are going to rule or execute any grand plan.
Agreed, Ranni is in fact pretty openly about removing the direct influence of the gods/outer gods
You do consummate in a sense. She calls you her consort, as others have. She is corporeal and you flesh. She’s not a god as blessed by the golden order but a god nonetheless.
@@chadly211bucks this. If she wasn't a God, she didn't have to leave for her to finish her vision of the Lands in Between. Her choosing to leave means that she also became a God herself, the existence she didn't want meddling with the Land anymore.
@@RookeSpecs she leaves to be able to take the elden ring away from the lands between and together with the tarnished completely block the outergods from interacting with the lands between
this is a great job in terms of observations, storytelling and all
I think it's pretty ironic that Trina represents the sound and "awake" part of Miquella as she is fully aware that his plan is a form of a unattainable dream/delusion.
Pretty make sense too, since she's the grown up while Miquella remains eternal young, even though in the end she's the baby head and he grew to adulthood
I have never heard anyone else raise these points. It made so much sense! Thank you for this video!
I used to get mad about how vague and incomplete the storyline is presented, it struck me as lazy at first. Now I realize it is a fascinating representation of the elusive pursuit of objective truth and purpose in real life, what an incredible reflection. It is going to be tough to let go of my tarnished identity over 999 hours invested and still learning. For the love of God release another DLC! Hands down best RPG of all time.
this has opened my mind to Elden Ring's lore a whole lot more and things are actually making sense after this...
13:41 if u look on her eye it looks like some sort of Ash/tear comes out or im just crazy 😂
Great video. Looking at the lore from a psychological lens has a lot of merit. I would love to read more about the psychological concept described in this or your other videos if you or someone in the comments has some recs
Did you notice the last petal/crumb when we put Marika's head back together? It looks like a tear
Can you possibly explain why Marika kept her alter ego Radagon and Miquella had to divest himself of St Trina? I've only watched about 3\4 through, so forgive me if you explain this. Marika seems to have a corporeal body (as well as Radagon) and Miquella seems to just be in spiritual form.
To me Neumans seem to be an actual separate race and Empyreans would be more in the wheel house you were describing.
Side note, I thought St. Trina's divested voice was amazing. Not a lot was said, but the way it was captures an almost indescribable sadness and longing.
I really liked your take on it all. You can tell a lot of work goes into most of these lore videos.
Well Miquella discarded of st Trina because he didn’t want to make the mistake of having tainted roots like his mother. He got rid of anything that could impede his ascension to godhood, even his core characteristic as a loving and compassionate person, and as a prevention method to not fuck up being a god as he thought his mother did. While the origin story of radagon and Marika is mostly theoretic, I believe that what this TH-camr is saying is partially true. However I don’t believe radagon was an actual person, but it’s an embodiment of her alter ego/ split personality. He represents the will that allowed her to be one of the only people out of her people to survive persecution and become some type of “saint”. It’s the form of Someone who she wishes she was to be strong enough to stop the ill fates of her people, someone that was feared and revered. The red hair is also a dead giveaway as, to me, Red is a symbol of passion, power, fear, bloodshed like Mesemmer. Blood and flesh is also a huge reason why marikas people were persecuted and stuffed in jars. In trying to overcome her trauma as she was a god, it also stood as a reminder of her painful past and where she came from, which would have made her act out emotionally like killing all the hornsent in a bloody massacre and separating herself from messemer while he stood as a symbol of the literal devil to be feared and hated on, the devil with RED hair. It’s hard to explain, but split personalities can happen to protect someone’s mind from very disturbing trauma, and escape of some sorts. I believe that’s what happened with Marika. Although radagon seems as a male, it’s a split personality of her that manifests physically as a “guardian” with a will of his own too. Even though she is a god, albeit a god that was tired of submitting and caged (again), she was very emotionally drained, and she even might’ve done to extreme lengths (because she’s messy asf) to just end it all and let another person handle being a god.
TLDR; Marika was lowkey fucked in the head and radagon is just her split personality in a physical form. Miquella saw that marikas original characteristics made him wanna abandon every single part of himself as a prevention method that wouldn’t make him fuck up godhood as he thought his mother did.
@@vivianlee7684 I thought Radagon was a legitimate person that had giant blood in that he detested and even worked as a smith in storm-whatsit castle. now I don't know if they were 2 different people and then Marika and him did a DBZ fusion thing or something, Melina's speech when she kinda channels Marika and says "thou art not yet me" or something to that effect. The way she says it leaves it to 2 ways of interpretation. Either they are 2 half's of a whole or two separate people that became one. But I'm almost positive that radagon is a separate consciousness and did have control over a body for a time.
I’ve been feeling this same way that Marika must’ve abandoned Radagon in shadow like Miquella did. Could definitely explain why he isn’t involved in early golden order conquests but then is able to become a champion. Leaves me with another question… was Godfrey’s soul put in a vessel? Who?
Someone speculated Godfrey refused to be Marika's physical self thus casting him away or stripping every gold (blessing) that was bestowed upon him (which is very intriguing to think about)
@@innomaiden5009 maybe… but then why not only tell him she’ll restore his grace but then actually follow through as well?
@@innomaiden5009My thought process is that Marika banished Godfrey and his army on the Long March of the Tarnished for two reasons.
The first is that Godfrey had run out of worthy foes that could challenge him and make him grow stronger, which was Marika's stated reason for banishing them; they would fight and die in a land far away, grow stronger, and eventually the Tarnished, 'Ye Dead Who Yet Live', would be called back to The Lands Between by Grace and vie for the position of Elden Lord. I would further posit that Godfrey was the last of the Tarnished to find a worthy death in battle and return to The Lands Between due to his immense strength, hence why he only arrives at the end of the game after we've already cleared the way; we simply didn't reach the finish line before Godfrey returned and marched his way back to the Erdtree, but for the sake of honor he allows us to challenge him for the title of Elden Lord.
The second reason Marika sent Godfrey away is a bit more speculative, but it aligns with what we discover about her history with the Hornsent in the DLC; Godfrey gave her two children who were Omens. Considering the horrible treatment Marika's people suffered under the Hornsent, it's not unreasonable to think that seeing two of her children be born as horn-covered Omens unsettled her greatly, and while Morgott and Mohg were allowed to live in their full state, they were still sealed below ground and hidden away from the world in the sewers of Leyndell. In that respect, Marika banishing Godfrey was probably something of a trial separation to see if they truly still loved one another after Godfrey's return, and give her a chance to have more children that were less likely to trigger her past traumas.
dude the vetruvian man has been staring us in the face this whole time wtf 🤣 also whats the track playing in the background? great vid man!
Radagon and Marika were two different persons blend together.
"Every giant is red of hair and Radagon was said to have despised his own red locks. Perhaps that was the curse of their kind"
Melina tells us:
"Spoken echoes linger here. Words of Queen Marika, who vanished long ago. If you wish, I will share them with you.
In Marika's own words. O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me, thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us both be shattered, mine other half"
The implication here is clear, that Radagon and Marika were trying to combine, or more specifically that Radagon was trying to become a God, but he was not able to do this yet. This pretty definitively debunks the notion that Radagon and Marika were always the same being but “separated” at some point, since if that were the case, Marika should’ve said something like “thou’rt yet to rejoin me” or something like that rather than “thou’rt yet to become me.”
This is further proven since we now know that the shaman's flesh could be blend together into others to ascend to "godhood"
"O'Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order, thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god. Let us be shattered, both. Mine other self."
The more I think about it, the more this quote only makes sense if you understand Radagon as attempting to take over Marika's body and will (possibly at the behest of the Golden Order) to 'become a god' (quite literally becoming Marika), and Marika resisting this by shattering the Elden Ring (i.e. the source of her godhood), after realizing Radagon's play but before their merger could be entirely complete.
Swing on the spiral
of our Divinity
And still be a human
-Tool
The Age of Maynard, true understanding of the errors of past ages.
Lateralus is a nice album, good taste
One of the best and most beautiful Elden Ring videos I have ever watched.
Yeah I believe that marika and ranni have been working together and were behind the shattering. Marika realized after becoming a god, it felt like a caged divinity (referencing st. trina's words). Thus, she conspired with Ranni to help her, who aspired to become a god too.
That's unlikely. Ranni's plan culminates in Marika's demise, why would she help Ranni? Also, the night of the black knives drove Marika insane.
She was a god, she had no reason to make her plans covert, just look at all the horrible things she did as ruler of the Golden Order, she shattered the Elden Ring knowing of the consequences and suffered them. She broke the logic of the world in a desperate attempt to save her son
@odd-eyes6363 They wrote Marika's god hood felt like a cage. You just answered your own question: *to be free.* Look at her history before "Marika the Eternal", why wouldn't she want it to end?
@@crazy13alex still, why Ranni? If she conspired with anyone it was with Godfrey, that much is clear, as she ensured his resurrection by sending him away. And the death of her son's very soul, which culminated in the shattering, clearly shook her to her core. Ranni destroyed the only good thing Marika had in her life and stripped away the hope of reunion even in death.
Ranni did not become a god in her ending
@@YamiAi she did. The whole purpose of her questline is that she wants the Lands in Between to be free of the influence of Gods and anybody's Order.
During the ending, she takes us with her to go far away. Why? She had to leave the Lands in Between to take out ALL influences of Gods and finish her mission because she is a God herself.
what if the spear inside Marikas womb is the curse Messmer wished upon her effecting every child she had after him
Marika is hands down one of the all time greatest characters ever.
You're reading too much into the spiritual, it's borderline gnostic in nature. I think things dont work the same in the 2 lands, the land of Shadow is the land of death. It doesn't quite work because
1. Marika had flesh and "blood" even when she was a god. The intro, the shattering (esp. because Radagon wanted to undo it) and.... The most obvious the demi-gods, not least the ones she had with Godfrey
2. Miquella had flesh too, at some point he needed to divest himself to his love, which suggests St Trina was an actual person/agent different from Miquella.
They should make another dlc focused on Renna
Brining in the virtruvian man is inside, what a video.
The red at the end of Marika's hair could just be from her walking and her hair touching the blood stained floor.
the lighting is quite red in the scene, but i don't get where this tips of the hair thing is coming from, the whole hair is pretty freakin uniform
Your theory here revolving around the Vitruvian man is fantastic! There’s a very reasonable flow of logic that I can get behind. Great stuff!!
A symbol with a very similar meaning and usage is used by Sir John Dee, though I forget what it is called. Both are related to things much much older which are pretty consistent with these ideas.
There is also a concept in alchemy called the Rebis. Basically one person who is male and female, spiritual and physical at the same time. It is the magnum opus of any alchemist. I wonder if Marika was born a hermaphrodite and when she became define transformed into a Rebis, “growing” a new physical body.
An additional note: a rebis is supposed to be a fusion of "a red king and a white queen".
@@shobooknight YOOO radagon having red hair while marika is blonde (white?)
Where do you mix alchemical ingredients? A Crucible.
Dont forget her people are known for being alchemical geniuses
Well, more very-likely correct parts of the story to add to the lore
Its fascinating that the miquella pose makes radahn appear like a horned warrior and how miquella eventually is distilled down to a parasite existence like the elden beast
If I may be permitted to say so, and I mean no offense when I do, I don't think this theory holds much water in all honesty.
Miquella shed his flesh specifically to sever all ties to his old lineage and fate under The Golden Order. This get's established in talks with Ansbach while finding more of the crosses in the dlc, notably the one with his eye. Ranni as well very blatantly tells you, if you talk to her doll at the first grace in Nokstella, that she slew her Emperyan flesh cuz she wouldn't acquiesce to the will of her Two Fingers, and wanted to "No longer be controlled by that thing", likely referring to her Two Fingers, since part of her quest is to kill them.
Add to that the fact that there's just no evidence anywhere to even remotely hint that Marika performed the same process as Miquella, rather, as noted above, that Miquella is mostly unique in his actions to become a god. It seems more implied that he's trying to shed his "humanity", as it were, in an attempt to hopefully be better at godhood than his mother. Unbound by the flesh that likely was part of what made the previous god "no better than men" as suggested by Gold Mask's Rune.
So yeah while I do think the theory is an interesting one, I don't believe to be very strong in light of what's presented in game. There's arguably more evidence in the dlc I think to suggest the possibility that Radagon was merged with Marika as part of her ascension rather than discarded. a shaky theory itself, and based on a single statement from the tooth whip, but just enough to suggest the potential more so.
Apologies for the length.
Thanks for the comment! I see what you are saying but, the only way for us to deduce Marika’s ascension is by the actions taken by others who also ascended. I would find it incredibly hard to believe that both gods we see in game and their journey of discarding their flesh, is not something Marika would have had to do. Sure, they have their own reasons but if Ranni could have orchestrated the NoBK while being “controlled” by that thing. Certainly she could have killed her 2-fingers while in her body, no?
To be fair, there is no evidence anywhere of Marika really doing anything. The developers make it clear that if we want to understand Marika’s journey and past, we have to understand other characters in game.
Also, you kind of said it yourself, each god is stripping their flesh to severe their ties with the old and start a new age. Why wouldn’t Marika’s be the same? Was she the first god? Did she have to start from scratch or did she want something different something new and had to do the same thing the others did?
I love your politeness😁
@@CenteredTarnished His point is that your theories are mostly assumptions, and pretty large ones at that. You're presenting all of this as "near fact" or "incredibly hard to believe otherwise", when a lot of this is just mere guesswork. You are guessing that Marika became a god in the same way. As many others have pointed out, there is plenty of evidence that suggests otherwise. That doesn't mean you're 100% wrong... but it's far from as certain as you seem to present it. Look at Vaati's approach when it comes to "certainty" - anything that isn't clearly supported is presented as "speculation, nothing more", and identified as such.
For Ranni.... I mean the entire questline basically disagrees with the statement you made ("Certainly she could have killed her 2-fingers while in her body, no?"). Her body is explicitly discarded to free herself from the fingers. Ranni "divests" nothing else (We also have no evidence of Marika divesting herself of anything). Ranni's entire theory on "godhood" is to basically peace out and let the world run itself. Her entire quest (us helping her) focuses on her overpowering the two fingers (and Blaidd's shadow). She even needs us to find the blade she uses to do so. It's conclusively clear that she could not just do it herself (it's been like 5000+ years since her plot started), and even less so when she was still "under the control of the fingers".
There is nothing wrong with your theories, and I hope you keep coming out with more - it's just don't get stuck in one. And you know, please don't present them as facts. The titles of these videos are incredibly too click-baity. You'd probably have a much better time with "Theory - Marika is a Metaphorical Jar" vs. "OMG TRUTH REVEALED, MARIKA IS ACTUALLY GODRICK!"
@@ssrobinson all theories are assumptions. The game simply doesn’t give enough information to come to any definite conclusions. I’m not going to preface every single statement with “this is just speculation” because everything is. Even item descriptions and characters contradict each other so I’m not sure what you want.
My favorite example is that Godfrey is a demigod child of Marika’s. Based off item descriptions and in game dialogue I could say this is “definite” but if I did people would freak out.
So, I ask you, who do you believe? When is the correct time to say, this is definite vs this is speculation? Oh, and you can’t use subjective terms. Only objective.
So, you’ll say something like “I think it’s speculation when there is no in-game, direct evidence”. Then I’ll say “is Godfrey is child of Marika’s?” And round and round we will go.
Things that don’t bend, break.
@@CenteredTarnished That is not even close.
No, no one would freak out if you said Godwyn is the son of Marika and Godfrey. That is heavily established. There's nothing that disagrees with that, and while not explicitly outlined, it's very very clear. There is no debate, short of some 0.whatever% of players who may think otherwise (akin to flat earthers). If you made a video called "REVEALED, Godwyn is Marika's son!!" you'd only get a ton of comments saying "yes, we know that already, how is this news?"
Saying that Marika is a Jar, or Miquella's kidnapping is what shattered the ring.... that's wild speculation, with plenty of possible counterevidence, and very little conclusive supporting evidence. Those are NOT established theories. Yet you phrase them as facts and apparently you adamantly can't be bothered to include a 2 second "speculation starts here" line?
Those two examples (what my first comment addressed, and the Godrey example you compared it to) are so different and incomparable, I don't get how you even brought it up.
Excellent video, I think you are absolutely right. I feel with this theory pretty much everything else falls into place. Fascinating and well made. It adds an extra layer of poignancy to the story.
Would've been nice if we actually got more info about Radagon. The dlc fumbled so much in the lore department imo. Even the Gloam Eyed Queen was completely forgotten.
Probably cut content. The putrescent knight is called "gloam eyed knight" in the game files.
You know what, you're elden lord now, congrats you got the job you start on Monday. Seriously this helped alot. I'm doing the DLC for the first time on NG++ and I'm dying out here. This is gonna help me survive lol
i think youre really onto something here!
I believe Marika is shown in the trailer “inside” the divine gates, (logistically, probably in a higher dimension or something). This pocket dimension would be where life is blended and all aspects of life are contained (the crucible). while inside, Marika meddles with something, or performs the sacred rite mentioned involving the gate (maybe even modifying or creating the golden lineage)
when we reach radahn, miquella is inside that dimension, doing whatever Marika did while she was inside, and he exits the gate back into our dimension for phase 2.
Somewhat related - what are your thoughts on Godwyn? his story has never sat right with me. He doesnt have an M name (all other demigods are named with their mothers Initial) and he is never explicitly stated to be her child. We have only inferred that, partially due to the “demigods are all direct ofspring of Marika” but what if he is her divested flesh?
Further, the “golden lineage” coming from Godfrey also feels strange. “godfrey” was only a name given to him by Marika, and we have no info about any other children in the Golden Lineage - just this massive gap and then somehow Godrick… doesnt add up to me
@@CyberSerumYT The random demigods in the walking mausoleums might be of the Golden Lineage?
The demigods aren't necessarily named after their mothers. Radahn seems to be named more after his father Radagon, for instance.
@@michaelhenry3234 yeah it is implied that the golden lineage is more than two people but it just seems weird that nobody talks about any of them.
Radahn may be named more for radagon, but it doesnt change the pattern of all Renallas children being R names and all Marikas being M… except Godwyn. i just feel like that cant be a coincidence and would make sense given the matriarchal nature of the society
@@CyberSerumYT Godwyn for Godfrey
Malenia, Miquella, Morgott, Mohgwyn for Marika
Radahn, Rykard, Ranni for Renalla
Good interpretation, this is the most convincing theory I’ve seen on Marika so far. I’d like to see a further exploration of Marika’s character here. Why did she want to die? What changed in her life? It wasn’t Godwyn’s death (that was just the catalyst), because according to your theory Radagon being recalled was a sign of her new motivations, and he was recalled before the KOTBK. Was it something else? Perhaps more knowledge of Metyr, or the Godskin Apostacy, or something? Just tossing ideas out here
Bravo , this is the clearest lore ive ever heard.
You even explained it a way that even i understood.
I thank you for all your hard work .
This was so good i didnt want it to end.
Thank you for the kind words!
Agreed on all counts but one thing I think to add - the elden beast was inside Radagon/Merika (it makes up Radagon’s lost arm and emerges once defeated). Merika was a puppet of the elden beast and needed it needed to be killed for someone to kill her - thus the Tarnished
I don't feel like all of the points presented here are as coherent and fleshed out as some others on this channnel. Don't think there is anything to suggest in the game that she would separate from Radagon before becoming a god.. Her actions later on do not suggest she is rid of her emotions and feellings.
Wow this has helped me understand the story so much! It also explains the law if regression....everything Marika she'd is slowly coming back to her
What's with the AI title card 😬
Great video!! Lots of parallel thinking as I've made a bunch of similar observations and come to similar conclusions. But dude! Very cool insight you added to the Vitruvian man observation! I hadn't been aware of that at all. And even if someone superimposed the images like you did I wouldn't have realized any significance other than an interesting cultural reference. Really cool insights and speculation you shared!
It occurred to me while watching that Marika's pose and imprisonment is pretty similar to Sellen's the Graven Witch. Perhaps there is some of Marika's story to infer from the events of Sellen's questline o.O
Radagon is Ratigan confirmed
🐀
😎👍
This is one of the most insightful videos I’ve seen of Elden Ring lore. Thanks!
two contradictions on this amazing video... 1) if Radagon is Marika's abandoned flesh, like St. Trina is to Miquella, how Marika and Radagon had children? 2) if Ranni did the same thing, why she didn't switch sex like Marika and Miquella
Radagon was his own human, known as a champion, made his name in the weeping peninsula as the father of the misbegotten - he was the one who led them to attack castle Morne
I think the DLC cheated us out of the real origin story we all actually want to know about, one far more important than Marika and any of the Demigods...
...and that is the story of Patches, who should have been Elden Lord.
Yo no fuckin way, well done piecing this one together.
not the ai thumbnail 💀💀
Some contributing evidence for this theory might be the stone figure in the hollow tree in the hinterland village.
The figure has the exact visage of radagon, radagons straight hair, a flat chest, and marikas signature braid. However, the figure is definitely feminine.
This is the first evidence that made me consider that marikas ascension involved this figure, and that maybe this is what marika was before her ascension.
is that an ai thumbnail
outstanding . this was the best radagon lore i have heard to date , most just say " he came out of nowhere" these are post dlc lore videos im talking about also
bro got that AI thumbnail brah
Poor boy was probably mid thrust in the bed chamber when he felt the the elden beast grab him from within, poor poor boy.
Apophenia in the elden ring community merits clinical treatment
This video made the most sense of that ending!! Im still confused on why Marika is dead at the end tho. Loved the video. Subscribed!
Using geAI art gross.
I'm in awe. I never thought to analyze marikas pose vs radagons pose. there's always another layer