Oh! You might appreciate the pun that I found: Malenia is the Blade of Miquella The Blaidd of Miquella Wolf of Miquella Shadow of Miquella Also, great interpretation of the blade of calling and black knife blade!
This is one of those increasingly very rare occassions where I get a random recommendation and find it quite engaging. Two minutes in and I had to go back to the first vid. I enjoy long-form content on Elden Ring, and particularly enjoy takes that go beyond the fantastical. Your take makes the most sense to me and is quite relatable - I ain't no Hoarah Loux but I've got quite a few Seroshs that take turns.
Intelligence is granted to beastmen, not humans. At least cinquedea doesn't mention humans, but beastmen specifically. "The design celebrates a beast's five fingers, symbolic of the intelligence once granted upon their kind." Here are some other random hodge podge of item descriptions related to having five digits, intelligence and being a beastman: Having gained intelligence, the beasts must have felt how their wildness slipped away as civilization took hold. It is said that in the time before the Erdtree, stones were the first weapons of the beasts who had gained intelligence. The beastmen have always fired earthenware jars for the express purpose of making shields. Such are their ways, strange though they are. The blade is incredibly heavy, but well-balanced. Comparatively easy to wield for the damage it delivers. It's clear the beastmen possess knowledge beyond human ken. This incantation represents the fury of Gurranq, his bestial nature returned, as much as it does his restless agitation. Greathammer with a striking end modelled to resemble five beastly claws. The black nails protruding from golden fur are said to represent Serosh, Lord of Beasts, who went to become King Godfrey's Regent.
Maliketh isnt Marika's Shadow, hes her shadowbound beast, so not the same thing in the context of Elden Ring and its themes of duality Marika's Shadow is the Gloam Eyed Queen, the GEQ was manifest on the day of Marika's ascension "An affair from which gold arose, and too was shadow born"
Thinking about it, Miquella and Malenia are each other's shadow 😮 Miquella repressing her rot with his needle which when removed, like Godfrey removes Seroch, lets her bloom to be who she really is. And Malenia the same for Miquella, with her affliction, pushing him to discard the golden order to find a cure when he was a fundamentalist. Order to chaos as chaos to order. Abondance and decay 🤯 Maybe Marika and Malenia where twins in a similar way, life to death as death to life.
19:01 That watery part of Leyndell used to contain the Nameless City that now lies in ruin at the Deeproot depths. I think Nameless Singer on reddit laid this out. But that part of Leyndell (brain)) corresponds to the position of the Temporal Lobes in the brain which helps access memories. So essentially the nameless city being buried underground is akin to a lobotomy. Maybe that's why it's nameless... because Marika doesn't want to give it a name, or to remember her part in the night of the black knives and the sacrifice of her son Godwyn. Because this city is also in close proximity to Godwyn's Deathblighted body and was also the home of the Black Knife Assassins. They resided in that part of Leyndell when it was still part of the city. As below so above: Farum Azula is another place associated with Marika's memory as TheCenteredTarnished discovered and explained in another video, and it's in the sky. In direct opposition to the deeproot depths that never see light, Farum Azula is always lit. Lit af. At this point it seems like the night of the black knives was an inside job! Destined death can't melt unalloyed gold... I think you've given us a key to the lore that's opening up a lot of doors for me lore-wise. Thank you!
It's funny you mention lobotomy as that is what I believe Miquella's needles are meant to resemble. I associate the Outer Gods with some sort of mental pathology (depression, addiction, etc). Lobotomies used to be done with golden "needles" because gold wouldn't interact with human biology and cause infection or negative things like that. Dr.'s would also go through the eyes with these golden needles to access the brain. In a cut item description, it tells you to use Miquella's Needle in your eye for it to work. I believe From took this out because it was too on-the-nose and would take some of the lore's ambiguity out. Anyways, these lobotomies were done on mental hospital patience and was thought to release the demons in their heads. Miquella is clearly meant to represent some sort of healer or therapist in the game - dressed in white, pure, etc. It's a video I want to make but my summers are crazy busy. Maybe later in the year I'll be able to get to it!
Amazing! I just discovered you, this was an incredible analysis! I'm always happy when people find the spiritual depth of these games! I used to always have the idea that Dark Souls is a person and all their aspects
Great observations! I especially like the idea that the Lands Between is Marika's inner world where she is god, repressing all that she deems undesirable. I'm curious how viewing the story of the Shattering through this lens recontextualizes the events. Is Marika's extensive research of Order and destruction of the Ring akin to shadow work? Ego death?
I definitely think so. The more I look into it, the more I believe that Godwyn is actually Marika’s ego and his death is just what you said - ego death. More to come! Thanks for watching!
I think there is definitely a connection between Marika/Radagon, Godwyn and Miquella all having similar appearance and physiognomy at different stages of life. Definitely similar to Cersei/Jaime/Tyrion from A Song of Ice and Fire, also a sun/lion themed family with twin offspring themes.
8:30 let me preface with the fact that i am in love with this series. I have struggled to find content that actually does a decent job discussing the narrative and it’s intricacies, but this series has restored hope within me. That being said, the family of 3 iconography in Farum Azula depicting a king father, a queen mother, and a child ( to my best understanding) is the birth of Godwyn; The king is Placidusax in his human form; The queen is Marika. My justifications for this are as follows: 1. Godwyn is the eldest if the demigods and was well into his prime (hundreds of years) at the time of his death. 2. The God-prefix predates Godfrey (Hoarah Loux) who adopted the name at the behest of Marika to honor the lineage she started with the only “pure” being. In addition God-Wyn roughly translates to “Joy of the Gods” which would be fitting for the child of the 2 strongest and eldest beings in game. 3. The beastmen did not worship humans. They were short lived during this time period and were likely hunted like livestock since we see hunting dogs. Therefore those statues can only be for divine worship. The only beings we know who were divine at the time are Marika and Placidusax. The baby? Like i said, it can only be Godwyn (Godfrey is part of that revisionist history lol). Time to unpause and continue watching your masterpiece of a video! Again keep up the amazing work!
Thank you for the kind words! I plan to start the series and lore videos back up her shortly. I don't necessarily disagree with you but I also don't think that Farum Azula is one place./ time. I believe FA to be an amalgam of different places and time throughout history. Some of it Marika's, some of it the history of mankind. I think that each room/ level we visit while at FA represents a different time. At the beginning we are just beast mostly operating in the primal, unconscious realm. By the end, we are fully developed/ enlightened beings who have completely split from our beastly selves (statue in Malikeths room). To me, Marika is the subject matter - this entire game is a deep dive into her psyche - which is why I believe the baby statue has to be her.
@@CenteredTarnished honestly very interesting and thought provoking take. This makes me think... the beastmen boss is also one of the first bosses we find in the game, and is definitely the first "beatable" boss we could challenge in a first playthrough.
I hope the next video is about Miquella(and his other self st Trina) since the dlc is gonna be about him. He has something to do and his brother Godwyn and his death root are in the way.
I making my way thru all of your videos - having watched hundred of hours of Elden ring lore, I genuinely believe your one of the very few who actually is trying to discuss what the game is about. Crunchy, Tarmished Archologist, Sinclair Lore, and you are the few who remember that these are human made games with human emotions and human psychology affecting every part of it. I appreciate your linking Jung’s philosophies with the story directly - drawing parallels is one thing, but you have evidence and the story itself seems to want to be understood in those terms. Great job! Eagerly watching this channel.
Just discovered your channel ! You are doing a great job ! If you take a look at Marika's hairstyle, you can see that she only has one long braid on her right side, which shows an asymmetry (or an unbalanced psyche, her real face is always hidden and she seems to be missing her left eye...is it the gloam eye you see on her daughter Melina face ?) I wonder is this a conscious choice on her part ? What's most interesting also is that the people who are really against her order are other women (Ranni, the gloam eyed queen before, Fia, the black knives) excluding the d*ng eater lol and the prominent masculine figures are either exiled/imprisoned (Morgott/Mogh, Malekith and Godfrey who are all beast-like) or dead/unconscious (Godwyn and Miquella)... Miquella's androgynous seemingly the closest to a "complete" individual. One question for you, how does the greater will fit into Jung concepts? Is it the collective unconscious?
Great to have you as part of the channel!! Yes, Marika's hair is something I have discussed on my channel for some time now and is such a cool display of her slowly balancing herself out. I believe her hairstyle is representative of her process of individuation ( I talk a lot about this in my inner world playthrough). To take it one step further, when Radagon takes over her body, it's a black shadowy arm - this shows these unconscious parts of her psyche take over Markia from time to time. As far as the Greater Will, I believe this to be the collective consciousness or zeitgeist. Like the current social norms. It's very possible that the collective UNconscious is Farum Azula where we shove our more primitive, chaotic selves. Much more to come!
Wow, this is incredible. The gloam eyed queen’s godslayers slew gods that opposed marika herself, not with the godslayers as opponents of marika or her order themselves
great video, i only have one thing i disagree, i sont think serosh is meant to be the shadow of godfrey, quite the opposite, it subverts expectations by making the beast the suppressor to godfreys shadow. This is why he took serosh upon his back in the first place to suppress his shadow.
So do you take it to be that Serosh is an actual living thing? Something that exists outside of Godfrey? I only ask because when Godfrey "murders" Serosh in the cutscene, he kind of evaporates/ reabsorbs into Godfrey which is when Godfrey releases his shadow and becomes Horah Loux. I think the big misconception is that all of these 'beings' are separate entities and in my opinion are actually figments of the subjects psyche. I don't believe that Serosh is suppressing his Shadow, but rather that Godfrey is suppressing Serosh (his shadow) which is why he is on his back - unattached when Godfrey needs to be kingly, then released when Godfrey needs to kick some ass.
@@CenteredTarnished Serosh and godfrey definitely seem to be integrated into one anouther, but i dont subcribe to the idea that serosh is just a constuct if godfrey psyche. Serosh seems to be a very real character outside of his loyalties to godfrey, theres a weapon that specifically belonged to him, and he is represented all over banners in stormveil and fortified manor (read the tree-beast surcoat) Im not 100% opposed to the idea, but it seems like a really hard sell. I think the jungian analysis still works without characters having to Literally be part of each other psyche, its just one of many ways Fromsoft games blends the line between metaphor in reality. But even if we roll with the idea that serosh is a figment of godfrey's psyche, he can be that while also being the one suppressing godfreys shadow. Its pretty overtly stated that serosh is suppressing his lust for battle, not the other way around. I think its a subversion to the classic depiction of shadows, and personally one of the reasons the character is so intresting. Usually the dark beast is a representation of the shadow, but in godfreys case, the beast is white instead of dark, and instead of representing the shadow, he's the one that helps godfrey repress his shadow, his ceaseless lust for battle. A lust that is implied to still exist inside of godfrey. This also complements Godrick and godefroy, what the golden lineage eventually became. While Godrick grafts others on to him to gain strength, Godfrey did the opposite, he "grafts" serosh on to him to suppress his strength.
Subscribed. I think it’s far to assume that Jung influenced anyone in the making of this game. I believe his work simply goes into the making of people like Miyazaki and George, which then brings about these great stories. You have to be the second lord enthusiast to peak my interest in a long time, the other being the tarnished archaeologist. Your understanding of psychology and the way you apply it to this game truly makes sense and you deserve more views. Thank you for all of this.
You have no idea how long I've needed someone to put to words the connections this game and Jungian psychology have! Im abouts to binge watch all your glorious works!
This man is talented and excels in thinking outside the box. Yet, he must control his knowledge as I heard crazy ideas that contradicts with game contents. 1-Melina was born at the Erdtrea and said something that she had a mother. 2-Malenia is literally a twin for Miquella. Those are just facts given to us by the game. I enjoy lore theory crafting but this is off the rails.
I had to rewatch the LOFF ending just to be sure, but yeah Gloam Eyed Melina’s words are open for interpretation. She is absolutely addressing the Lord of Frenzied Flame but ‘delivering (it) what is (it’s)’, destined death, could mean imbuing the yellow flame with death too, so everything is not just washed away & combined, but destroyed But she could also be saying ‘I will kill you, lord of frenzied flame’ because she is the queen of conquest & death, & if nothing exists anymore, there’s not just no life. There’s also no death. Edit for clarity, TLDR: if you erase all distinction, chaos is no longer the opposite of order. It’s all one great. The gloam eyed queen would not be a chaos queen anymore
Death and the state of the unconscious are two connected concepts, and examining that connection within the context of elden ring is kool. However, i find it a bit presumptuous and confusing when you use the two voncepts interchangeably, for although connected, they are not the same.
I don't exactly remember using them interchangeably but believe you as it has been a while since I made this. I tend to think of death (in ER) as more of an ego death, rather than a physical one. Meaning that a certain part of one's psyche dies. Remember, I believe this all takes place within Marika's psyche and the major characters are aspects of her personality. To me, Godwyn the Golden is meant to be her Ego - everything she ever wanted to be. However, some tragic/ major event in her life caused her ego to die. Think about it like someone with a very tragic childhood doing ayahuasca where its an internal dance where all their demons come out and the subject either fights to keep the current status quo out of fear (Radahn) or they surrender to it (Ranni) let their ego die (Godwyn) and grow because of it. I'm not saying this is right by any means but it's how I personally see it and think it paints the clearest and fullest picture of what is happening within the LB.
My biggest question is how is the QEQ tied at all to Farum Azula if she's the shadow of Marika? Marika is Numen, a race of people that is described as foreign to The Lands Between, while Farum Azula used to be a part of The Lands Between. Meaning Marika, and thus her shadow, the GEQ, couldn't have been part of anything that happened with the dragons and Farum Azula pre-Erdtree. I say this confidently because Numen has ties to the Numenoreans, a race of Men (aka humans) found in JRR Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. They were a race of Men, but they aren't the race of Men of Middle-Earth that we see in the books or movies. Rather, they are a longer lived race that gifted the Men of Middle-Earth more advanced technology that they developed within their home continent of Numenor, separate from Middle-Earth. With how similar the Numen are to the Numenoreans in name and description and how similar The Lands Between is to Middle-Earth in name and location in regards to other continents in the world, I find it hard to believe that the GEQ had anything to do with Placidusax, a native to The Lands Between, if she is indeed the shadow of Marika, a foreigner who wasn't born in The Lands Between.
"Queen Marika was originally of the same stock as the Numen people." I don't see anywhere that she wasn't born in the LB. Maybe I am missing something? I think it is just implying that her ancestors are from a different place. I have no doubt that what you mentioned is 100% the inspiration for Numen's but I don't think it means Marika was born somewhere else then traveled here. Again, I make the claim that this is all taking place inside Marika's psyche. I believe her being "Numen" means she is the subject matter.
Hi CT. I have read in the official from software's book as Numens are denizens of another world. And they are specifically regarded as 'fell creatures of the starry void'. So Numen race wasn't native to the Lands Between.You can check it and reference it in the book by quote. It is very important to read it. It is named 'Elden Ring Official Strategy Guide, Vol. 1: The Lands Between' and it is written specifically on page 503. Titled 'Visitors from Beyond' section.@@CenteredTarnished
Also Numen's Rune directly states 'The Numen are said to have come outside the Lands Between and are in fact of the same stock as Queen Marika herself'@@CenteredTarnished
The term exercise doesn't come from exorcism, it comes from the latin exercitium, meaning work at something. Exorcism comes from the greek exorkizo, meaning banish an (usually evil) spirit.
So can we consider Melina to be the shadow of the gloom eyed queen? As she wants to bring death to everything marika built after being suppressed for ages?
Thanks for All the work you put in those Videos. You are catching up in some really nice details, way to many people seem to miss. I just think you walked into a trap. Myasaki love to take western concepts and authors and proof them wrong. Like He did in bloodborne with Lovecraft. He does the same with Karl Jung. btw shocked that you don't mention, that his few on human psycholigy is deeply flawed and influenced by his own racist fews. He also was a supporter of the NSDAP aka the nazi party in the 30/40's in germany and refused to talk with edjucated people from other countries, when He lifed there. Out of fear, it could influence him, or proof his Theorie wrong. This is where a lot of important elements of elden ring come in. For example how Malenia represents the solution of eastern alchemy (based on taoism), but learned through the lense of a Person, from a western origin, while Miquella is the devine Schild of Western alchemy. (just say unalloyed Gold reference). That's why Malenia needs the 3 blooms and has 5 inner selfs, we can meet. Millicents Story for example is about how sometimes, what we in the west, call ego or inner self, stand in our way. Because she fails to accept the scarlet rot as Part of her. What we help her acchieve by betraying her. There is also a lot of evidence that you need opposites in the lands between. What you pointed out. Like rot and abundance, what would work as Alternative concepts to the more simple life and death, we see under Marikas rule. And we learn that before Marika, there was an age of rot and abundance, as well as most likley several kingdoms and gods at the Same time. (mushroomcrown, scorpion dagger, Uhl tablets and wall carvings) Monotheism just came arround with Marika and she entered the time Line pretty late. Most likley in the last ruling era of the crucible (what she would call age of abundance), since she was most likley an empirian Holding the Rune of life, so becoming a good of life. But Maria, was probably the first claiming the lone title as the one god of the lands between, while polytheism, was dominant before. This is where the golden order steps in, and the history is ritten by winners. Only leaving behind archological evidence for the opposite. What you proclaim here is the World of Elden Ring through purly western eyes, ignoring most of the history of the lands between. The story Marika tells us. I also highly recommend queelag. She in special explains well why and how Karl Jung is wrong, how Myasaki is mocking Jung, with the Story and mythology of elden ring, and that He had, what is called "confirmation bios". But I think you are still right with so many stuff. For example that Marika reciefed her shadow beast in farum azula, that the greater will is the collective will of intelligent beings (most likley influenced by the currently situation of the World, it's polutics...), Maria and Radagon as devine couple... So, still an amazing job and Video. 😊
Godwyn the Prince of Death should have been the Elden Lord and The Gloam Eyed Queen was an Empyrean next Vessel of the Elden Ring and owner of Destined Death. I believe they were meant to Marry/Wed and usher in the New Age but GEQ killed Godwyn because she does not want to be controlled by the Greater Will. I believe Ranni and Melina were in the Same Body, one Part Moon and one Part Golden Order. And only by slaying her Flesh, both Parts could be Free. Yes The Gloam Eyed Queen is a Entity just like Marika. Being 2 People in 1 Body
I loved making this video and discovering all the hidden meanings behind all things Gloam-Eyed Queen! I hope you all enjoy it! Don't forget to subscribe for future video's :) Lore Series Part 1: th-cam.com/video/aEb_NoHZtXE/w-d-xo.html Inner World Playlist: th-cam.com/video/FxFnvjbuEfE/w-d-xo.html
Of course a fromsoft game bringing to life different parts of the brain is not unprecedented. I'm sure there's other instances than Amygdala, but I can't think of any right now! Um...
It doesn't add up. Why is melena the gloam eyed queen, the motive doesn't match. The ge queen was defeated by maleketh, so if melena is the geq why does she care about the golden order. She doesn't use any black flame incants or even says anything about it. The only "evidence" is that she has a purple eye. If she is the geq then why does she against chaos and true birth. She says that births wouldn't happen, that is erdtree birth. She even implies that she doesn't understand how birth from a mother is possible.
Well, in my opinion, Melena is more than just the GEQ. .She is Marika's Self in a psychology sense. Melena a.k.a is the totality of all the aspects of Marika (when integrated). That is to say that Melena is all the possible potential of what Marika could be. All her positive, negative, quirky traits. This is a very, very deep analysis of this character using the human psyche as the "evidence". I'm not sure if you watched part 1 but that gives the breakdown of one's psyche and all the different parts of it. The ego, persona, shadow, anima/animus, and self. I believe these represent Marika, Radagon, Melena, Maliketh and Godwyn (not in that order). The reason that Melena never mentions or uses black incantations is because the Shadow (GEQ) is not integrated into the whole psyche because Malkieth is repressing it. That is until we defeat Maliketh and free the GEQ and in doing so, reintegrate that aspect back into Markia (she is now able to access this part of herself.... the dark shadow). Marika is fractured.... completely detached from her psyche. We as the player character reassemble these parts of her psyche and "mend" the ER aka Marika. This is only about 20% of everything but its way too much to get across in this format. I plan to make many more videos but my summers are too busy. Let me know if that makes sense.Thanks!
@@CenteredTarnished I have deducted speculative lore on how she might be the gloam eyed queen. In the frenzied flame ending her eye is drained of color and the other is purple. The gloam eyed queen was also an emperian so she was born of a single god(ranni was born of a single god because of the amber egg, and melena was born at the foot of the erdtree, so neither was of sexual reproduction. The twins were due to the afflictions and that Melania has a bellybutton) when you kill marika as the lord of frenzied flame, that part of marika fades from melena. So either she is the gloam eyed queen or she is the vessel. Also another interesting thing if you sacrifice yourself at the forge of the Giants you do not die, probably because you are a vessel for the god of frenzied flame, if Melanie sacrifices herself and you still get the Lord of frenzied flame ending she still appears therefore she might be a vessel for a god. And I'm thinking that her motive might have been becoming the ruler of the elden ring and whenever you destroy the golden order she wants to take it back. But one last question that I have about her is that why does she say "destined death". Could guests and death have been before or after the black flame. Maybe when the gloam eyed Queen was defeated she became the black flame. Also considering that in Master igis suicide he is burning in black flame not destined death. It's crazy how sometimes you're trying to find some lore on something and you don't talk to a ghost in the game and you have no idea how something connects. What do you think of this.
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Oh! You might appreciate the pun that I found:
Malenia is the Blade of Miquella
The Blaidd of Miquella
Wolf of Miquella
Shadow of Miquella
Also, great interpretation of the blade of calling and black knife blade!
I love that!!! Great find
This is one of those increasingly very rare occassions where I get a random recommendation and find it quite engaging. Two minutes in and I had to go back to the first vid. I enjoy long-form content on Elden Ring, and particularly enjoy takes that go beyond the fantastical. Your take makes the most sense to me and is quite relatable - I ain't no Hoarah Loux but I've got quite a few Seroshs that take turns.
Intelligence is granted to beastmen, not humans. At least cinquedea doesn't mention humans, but beastmen specifically.
"The design celebrates a beast's five fingers, symbolic of the intelligence once granted upon their kind."
Here are some other random hodge podge of item descriptions related to having five digits, intelligence and being a beastman:
Having gained intelligence, the beasts must have felt how their wildness slipped away as civilization took hold.
It is said that in the time before the Erdtree, stones were the first weapons of the beasts who had gained intelligence.
The beastmen have always fired earthenware jars for the express purpose of making shields. Such are their ways, strange though they are.
The blade is incredibly heavy, but well-balanced. Comparatively easy to wield for the damage it delivers. It's clear the beastmen possess knowledge beyond human ken.
This incantation represents the fury of Gurranq, his bestial nature returned, as much as it does his restless agitation.
Greathammer with a striking end modelled to resemble five beastly claws. The black nails protruding from golden fur are said to represent Serosh, Lord of Beasts, who went to become King Godfrey's Regent.
Really love the deep dive in to psychology. So many threads to pull in the world of Elden Ring, the insight into Marika's psyche is fascinating.
Maliketh isnt Marika's Shadow, hes her shadowbound beast, so not the same thing in the context of Elden Ring and its themes of duality
Marika's Shadow is the Gloam Eyed Queen, the GEQ was manifest on the day of Marika's ascension
"An affair from which gold arose, and too was shadow born"
Thinking about it, Miquella and Malenia are each other's shadow 😮 Miquella repressing her rot with his needle which when removed, like Godfrey removes Seroch, lets her bloom to be who she really is. And Malenia the same for Miquella, with her affliction, pushing him to discard the golden order to find a cure when he was a fundamentalist. Order to chaos as chaos to order. Abondance and decay 🤯 Maybe Marika and Malenia where twins in a similar way, life to death as death to life.
I don't know why the algorithm (choice shadow) slipped up and blessed this humble Tarnished but I am now subbed, time to binge!
19:01 That watery part of Leyndell used to contain the Nameless City that now lies in ruin at the Deeproot depths. I think Nameless Singer on reddit laid this out. But that part of Leyndell (brain)) corresponds to the position of the Temporal Lobes in the brain which helps access memories. So essentially the nameless city being buried underground is akin to a lobotomy. Maybe that's why it's nameless... because Marika doesn't want to give it a name, or to remember her part in the night of the black knives and the sacrifice of her son Godwyn. Because this city is also in close proximity to Godwyn's Deathblighted body and was also the home of the Black Knife Assassins. They resided in that part of Leyndell when it was still part of the city. As below so above: Farum Azula is another place associated with Marika's memory as TheCenteredTarnished discovered and explained in another video, and it's in the sky. In direct opposition to the deeproot depths that never see light, Farum Azula is always lit. Lit af. At this point it seems like the night of the black knives was an inside job! Destined death can't melt unalloyed gold...
I think you've given us a key to the lore that's opening up a lot of doors for me lore-wise. Thank you!
It's funny you mention lobotomy as that is what I believe Miquella's needles are meant to resemble. I associate the Outer Gods with some sort of mental pathology (depression, addiction, etc). Lobotomies used to be done with golden "needles" because gold wouldn't interact with human biology and cause infection or negative things like that. Dr.'s would also go through the eyes with these golden needles to access the brain. In a cut item description, it tells you to use Miquella's Needle in your eye for it to work. I believe From took this out because it was too on-the-nose and would take some of the lore's ambiguity out. Anyways, these lobotomies were done on mental hospital patience and was thought to release the demons in their heads. Miquella is clearly meant to represent some sort of healer or therapist in the game - dressed in white, pure, etc. It's a video I want to make but my summers are crazy busy. Maybe later in the year I'll be able to get to it!
Amazing! I just discovered you, this was an incredible analysis! I'm always happy when people find the spiritual depth of these games! I used to always have the idea that Dark Souls is a person and all their aspects
Great observations! I especially like the idea that the Lands Between is Marika's inner world where she is god, repressing all that she deems undesirable. I'm curious how viewing the story of the Shattering through this lens recontextualizes the events. Is Marika's extensive research of Order and destruction of the Ring akin to shadow work? Ego death?
I definitely think so. The more I look into it, the more I believe that Godwyn is actually Marika’s ego and his death is just what you said - ego death. More to come! Thanks for watching!
I think there is definitely a connection between Marika/Radagon, Godwyn and Miquella all having similar appearance and physiognomy at different stages of life. Definitely similar to Cersei/Jaime/Tyrion from A Song of Ice and Fire, also a sun/lion themed family with twin offspring themes.
Pure pleasure to watch this type of ER content. Thanks for your job!
8:30 let me preface with the fact that i am in love with this series. I have struggled to find content that actually does a decent job discussing the narrative and it’s intricacies, but this series has restored hope within me. That being said, the family of 3 iconography in Farum Azula depicting a king father, a queen mother, and a child ( to my best understanding) is the birth of Godwyn; The king is Placidusax in his human form; The queen is Marika. My justifications for this are as follows:
1. Godwyn is the eldest if the demigods and was well into his prime (hundreds of years) at the time of his death.
2. The God-prefix predates Godfrey (Hoarah Loux) who adopted the name at the behest of Marika to honor the lineage she started with the only “pure” being.
In addition God-Wyn roughly translates to “Joy of the Gods” which would be fitting for the child of the 2 strongest and eldest beings in game.
3. The beastmen did not worship humans. They were short lived during this time period and were likely hunted like livestock since we see hunting dogs. Therefore those statues can only be for divine worship. The only beings we know who were divine at the time are Marika and Placidusax. The baby? Like i said, it can only be Godwyn (Godfrey is part of that revisionist history lol).
Time to unpause and continue watching your masterpiece of a video! Again keep up the amazing work!
33:12 I think this would have been a great spot to mention that Ranni was likely the kindling maiden of her time
Thank you for the kind words! I plan to start the series and lore videos back up her shortly.
I don't necessarily disagree with you but I also don't think that Farum Azula is one place./ time. I believe FA to be an amalgam of different places and time throughout history. Some of it Marika's, some of it the history of mankind. I think that each room/ level we visit while at FA represents a different time. At the beginning we are just beast mostly operating in the primal, unconscious realm. By the end, we are fully developed/ enlightened beings who have completely split from our beastly selves (statue in Malikeths room). To me, Marika is the subject matter - this entire game is a deep dive into her psyche - which is why I believe the baby statue has to be her.
@@CenteredTarnished honestly very interesting and thought provoking take. This makes me think... the beastmen boss is also one of the first bosses we find in the game, and is definitely the first "beatable" boss we could challenge in a first playthrough.
I hope the next video is about Miquella(and his other self st Trina) since the dlc is gonna be about him.
He has something to do and his brother Godwyn and his death root are in the way.
Frigging "Silent Night, Holy Night" as intro music 😂
I making my way thru all of your videos - having watched hundred of hours of Elden ring lore, I genuinely believe your one of the very few who actually is trying to discuss what the game is about. Crunchy, Tarmished Archologist, Sinclair Lore, and you are the few who remember that these are human made games with human emotions and human psychology affecting every part of it.
I appreciate your linking Jung’s philosophies with the story directly - drawing parallels is one thing, but you have evidence and the story itself seems to want to be understood in those terms.
Great job! Eagerly watching this channel.
@@TheMidnightVendetta thank you! I’m honored to be mentioned with those other creators. Much love!
Just discovered your channel ! You are doing a great job ! If you take a look at Marika's hairstyle, you can see that she only has one long braid on her right side, which shows an asymmetry (or an unbalanced psyche, her real face is always hidden and she seems to be missing her left eye...is it the gloam eye you see on her daughter Melina face ?) I wonder is this a conscious choice on her part ? What's most interesting also is that the people who are really against her order are other women (Ranni, the gloam eyed queen before, Fia, the black knives) excluding the d*ng eater lol and the prominent masculine figures are either exiled/imprisoned (Morgott/Mogh, Malekith and Godfrey who are all beast-like) or dead/unconscious (Godwyn and Miquella)... Miquella's androgynous seemingly the closest to a "complete" individual. One question for you, how does the greater will fit into Jung concepts? Is it the collective unconscious?
Great to have you as part of the channel!! Yes, Marika's hair is something I have discussed on my channel for some time now and is such a cool display of her slowly balancing herself out. I believe her hairstyle is representative of her process of individuation ( I talk a lot about this in my inner world playthrough). To take it one step further, when Radagon takes over her body, it's a black shadowy arm - this shows these unconscious parts of her psyche take over Markia from time to time.
As far as the Greater Will, I believe this to be the collective consciousness or zeitgeist. Like the current social norms. It's very possible that the collective UNconscious is Farum Azula where we shove our more primitive, chaotic selves.
Much more to come!
I’m so glad I found this. Top tier discussion with profound implications. Keep up the good work!
THESE are the kind of lore channels that get my brain activated. Love it. Instant subscribe.
Wow, this is incredible. The gloam eyed queen’s godslayers slew gods that opposed marika herself, not with the godslayers as opponents of marika or her order themselves
great video, i only have one thing i disagree, i sont think serosh is meant to be the shadow of godfrey, quite the opposite, it subverts expectations by making the beast the suppressor to godfreys shadow. This is why he took serosh upon his back in the first place to suppress his shadow.
So do you take it to be that Serosh is an actual living thing? Something that exists outside of Godfrey? I only ask because when Godfrey "murders" Serosh in the cutscene, he kind of evaporates/ reabsorbs into Godfrey which is when Godfrey releases his shadow and becomes Horah Loux. I think the big misconception is that all of these 'beings' are separate entities and in my opinion are actually figments of the subjects psyche. I don't believe that Serosh is suppressing his Shadow, but rather that Godfrey is suppressing Serosh (his shadow) which is why he is on his back - unattached when Godfrey needs to be kingly, then released when Godfrey needs to kick some ass.
@@CenteredTarnished
Serosh and godfrey definitely seem to be integrated into one anouther, but i dont subcribe to the idea that serosh is just a constuct if godfrey psyche. Serosh seems to be a very real character outside of his loyalties to godfrey, theres a weapon that specifically belonged to him, and he is represented all over banners in stormveil and fortified manor (read the tree-beast surcoat) Im not 100% opposed to the idea, but it seems like a really hard sell.
I think the jungian analysis still works without characters having to Literally be part of each other psyche, its just one of many ways Fromsoft games blends the line between metaphor in reality.
But even if we roll with the idea that serosh is a figment of godfrey's psyche, he can be that while also being the one suppressing godfreys shadow. Its pretty overtly stated that serosh is suppressing his lust for battle, not the other way around.
I think its a subversion to the classic depiction of shadows, and personally one of the reasons the character is so intresting. Usually the dark beast is a representation of the shadow, but in godfreys case, the beast is white instead of dark, and instead of representing the shadow, he's the one that helps godfrey repress his shadow, his ceaseless lust for battle. A lust that is implied to still exist inside of godfrey.
This also complements Godrick and godefroy, what the golden lineage eventually became. While Godrick grafts others on to him to gain strength, Godfrey did the opposite, he "grafts" serosh on to him to suppress his strength.
Subscribed. I think it’s far to assume that Jung influenced anyone in the making of this game. I believe his work simply goes into the making of people like Miyazaki and George, which then brings about these great stories. You have to be the second lord enthusiast to peak my interest in a long time, the other being the tarnished archaeologist. Your understanding of psychology and the way you apply it to this game truly makes sense and you deserve more views. Thank you for all of this.
Thank you for the kind words!
Masterpiece of an analysis. Truly loved part 1 and 2. You are amazing!
You have no idea how long I've needed someone to put to words the connections this game and Jungian psychology have!
Im abouts to binge watch all your glorious works!
This man is talented and excels in thinking outside the box. Yet, he must control his knowledge as I heard crazy ideas that contradicts with game contents.
1-Melina was born at the Erdtrea and said something that she had a mother.
2-Malenia is literally a twin for Miquella. Those are just facts given to us by the game. I enjoy lore theory crafting but this is off the rails.
Melina is an individual and she is not Marika.
Your explanation for this comes from where?
I had to rewatch the LOFF ending just to be sure, but yeah Gloam Eyed Melina’s words are open for interpretation. She is absolutely addressing the Lord of Frenzied Flame but ‘delivering (it) what is (it’s)’, destined death, could mean imbuing the yellow flame with death too, so everything is not just washed away & combined, but destroyed
But she could also be saying ‘I will kill you, lord of frenzied flame’ because she is the queen of conquest & death, & if nothing exists anymore, there’s not just no life. There’s also no death.
Edit for clarity, TLDR: if you erase all distinction, chaos is no longer the opposite of order. It’s all one great. The gloam eyed queen would not be a chaos queen anymore
Death and the state of the unconscious are two connected concepts, and examining that connection within the context of elden ring is kool. However, i find it a bit presumptuous and confusing when you use the two voncepts interchangeably, for although connected, they are not the same.
I don't exactly remember using them interchangeably but believe you as it has been a while since I made this. I tend to think of death (in ER) as more of an ego death, rather than a physical one. Meaning that a certain part of one's psyche dies. Remember, I believe this all takes place within Marika's psyche and the major characters are aspects of her personality. To me, Godwyn the Golden is meant to be her Ego - everything she ever wanted to be. However, some tragic/ major event in her life caused her ego to die. Think about it like someone with a very tragic childhood doing ayahuasca where its an internal dance where all their demons come out and the subject either fights to keep the current status quo out of fear (Radahn) or they surrender to it (Ranni) let their ego die (Godwyn) and grow because of it. I'm not saying this is right by any means but it's how I personally see it and think it paints the clearest and fullest picture of what is happening within the LB.
@@CenteredTarnishedyour articulation is astonishing my friend!
@@CenteredTarnisheddamn
My biggest question is how is the QEQ tied at all to Farum Azula if she's the shadow of Marika? Marika is Numen, a race of people that is described as foreign to The Lands Between, while Farum Azula used to be a part of The Lands Between. Meaning Marika, and thus her shadow, the GEQ, couldn't have been part of anything that happened with the dragons and Farum Azula pre-Erdtree.
I say this confidently because Numen has ties to the Numenoreans, a race of Men (aka humans) found in JRR Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. They were a race of Men, but they aren't the race of Men of Middle-Earth that we see in the books or movies. Rather, they are a longer lived race that gifted the Men of Middle-Earth more advanced technology that they developed within their home continent of Numenor, separate from Middle-Earth.
With how similar the Numen are to the Numenoreans in name and description and how similar The Lands Between is to Middle-Earth in name and location in regards to other continents in the world, I find it hard to believe that the GEQ had anything to do with Placidusax, a native to The Lands Between, if she is indeed the shadow of Marika, a foreigner who wasn't born in The Lands Between.
"Queen Marika was originally of the same stock as the Numen people." I don't see anywhere that she wasn't born in the LB. Maybe I am missing something? I think it is just implying that her ancestors are from a different place. I have no doubt that what you mentioned is 100% the inspiration for Numen's but I don't think it means Marika was born somewhere else then traveled here. Again, I make the claim that this is all taking place inside Marika's psyche. I believe her being "Numen" means she is the subject matter.
Hi CT. I have read in the official from software's book as Numens are denizens of another world. And they are specifically regarded as 'fell creatures of the starry void'. So Numen race wasn't native to the Lands Between.You can check it and reference it in the book by quote. It is very important to read it. It is named 'Elden Ring Official Strategy Guide, Vol. 1: The Lands Between' and it is written specifically on page 503. Titled 'Visitors from Beyond' section.@@CenteredTarnished
Also Numen's Rune directly states 'The Numen are said to have come outside the Lands Between and are in fact of the same stock as Queen Marika herself'@@CenteredTarnished
fantastic video!!😮
The term exercise doesn't come from exorcism, it comes from the latin exercitium, meaning work at something.
Exorcism comes from the greek exorkizo, meaning banish an (usually evil) spirit.
After watching a few of your videos, the game makes sense lol
So can we consider Melina to be the shadow of the gloom eyed queen? As she wants to bring death to everything marika built after being suppressed for ages?
Thanks for All the work you put in those Videos. You are catching up in some really nice details, way to many people seem to miss.
I just think you walked into a trap. Myasaki love to take western concepts and authors and proof them wrong.
Like He did in bloodborne with Lovecraft. He does the same with Karl Jung. btw shocked that you don't mention, that his few on human psycholigy is deeply flawed and influenced by his own racist fews. He also was a supporter of the NSDAP aka the nazi party in the 30/40's in germany and refused to talk with edjucated people from other countries, when He lifed there. Out of fear, it could influence him, or proof his Theorie wrong.
This is where a lot of important elements of elden ring come in. For example how Malenia represents the solution of eastern alchemy (based on taoism), but learned through the lense of a Person, from a western origin, while Miquella is the devine Schild of Western alchemy. (just say unalloyed Gold reference).
That's why Malenia needs the 3 blooms and has 5 inner selfs, we can meet. Millicents Story for example is about how sometimes, what we in the west, call ego or inner self, stand in our way. Because she fails to accept the scarlet rot as Part of her. What we help her acchieve by betraying her.
There is also a lot of evidence that you need opposites in the lands between. What you pointed out. Like rot and abundance, what would work as Alternative concepts to the more simple life and death, we see under Marikas rule.
And we learn that before Marika, there was an age of rot and abundance, as well as most likley several kingdoms and gods at the Same time. (mushroomcrown, scorpion dagger, Uhl tablets and wall carvings)
Monotheism just came arround with Marika and she entered the time Line pretty late. Most likley in the last ruling era of the crucible (what she would call age of abundance), since she was most likley an empirian Holding the Rune of life, so becoming a good of life.
But Maria, was probably the first claiming the lone title as the one god of the lands between, while polytheism, was dominant before. This is where the golden order steps in, and the history is ritten by winners. Only leaving behind archological evidence for the opposite.
What you proclaim here is the World of Elden Ring through purly western eyes, ignoring most of the history of the lands between. The story Marika tells us.
I also highly recommend queelag.
She in special explains well why and how Karl Jung is wrong, how Myasaki is mocking Jung, with the Story and mythology of elden ring, and that He had, what is called "confirmation bios".
But I think you are still right with so many stuff. For example that Marika reciefed her shadow beast in farum azula, that the greater will is the collective will of intelligent beings (most likley influenced by the currently situation of the World, it's polutics...), Maria and Radagon as devine couple...
So, still an amazing job and Video. 😊
Godwyn the Prince of Death should have been the Elden Lord and The Gloam Eyed Queen was an Empyrean next Vessel of the Elden Ring and owner of Destined Death.
I believe they were meant to Marry/Wed and usher in the New Age but GEQ killed Godwyn because she does not want to be controlled by the Greater Will. I believe Ranni and Melina were in the Same Body, one Part Moon and one Part Golden Order. And only by slaying her Flesh, both Parts could be Free. Yes The Gloam Eyed Queen is a Entity just like Marika. Being 2 People in 1 Body
Bro literally cracked the whole history a year ago;
I loved making this video and discovering all the hidden meanings behind all things Gloam-Eyed Queen! I hope you all enjoy it! Don't forget to subscribe for future video's :)
Lore Series Part 1: th-cam.com/video/aEb_NoHZtXE/w-d-xo.html
Inner World Playlist: th-cam.com/video/FxFnvjbuEfE/w-d-xo.html
Of course a fromsoft game bringing to life different parts of the brain is not unprecedented. I'm sure there's other instances than Amygdala, but I can't think of any right now! Um...
how do you only have 470 subs
Haha hopefully it picks up but I’m just happy anyone see’s it
No
Isnt Maliketh literally Marika's shadow?
Maliketh is her shadowBOUND beast. Meaning he bounds the shadow within himself like a bank vault. The real secret is what he is hiding/ suppressing.
@@CenteredTarnished ah! Thanks for clarifying
Why Christmas song tho
I thought it was creepy lol
@@CenteredTarnished It was certainly offputting, being in a super Christmas cheer mood while watching Elden Ring theory 🤣
It doesn't add up. Why is melena the gloam eyed queen, the motive doesn't match. The ge queen was defeated by maleketh, so if melena is the geq why does she care about the golden order. She doesn't use any black flame incants or even says anything about it. The only "evidence" is that she has a purple eye. If she is the geq then why does she against chaos and true birth. She says that births wouldn't happen, that is erdtree birth. She even implies that she doesn't understand how birth from a mother is possible.
Well, in my opinion, Melena is more than just the GEQ. .She is Marika's Self in a psychology sense. Melena a.k.a is the totality of all the aspects of Marika (when integrated). That is to say that Melena is all the possible potential of what Marika could be. All her positive, negative, quirky traits. This is a very, very deep analysis of this character using the human psyche as the "evidence". I'm not sure if you watched part 1 but that gives the breakdown of one's psyche and all the different parts of it. The ego, persona, shadow, anima/animus, and self. I believe these represent Marika, Radagon, Melena, Maliketh and Godwyn (not in that order). The reason that Melena never mentions or uses black incantations is because the Shadow (GEQ) is not integrated into the whole psyche because Malkieth is repressing it. That is until we defeat Maliketh and free the GEQ and in doing so, reintegrate that aspect back into Markia (she is now able to access this part of herself.... the dark shadow). Marika is fractured.... completely detached from her psyche. We as the player character reassemble these parts of her psyche and "mend" the ER aka Marika. This is only about 20% of everything but its way too much to get across in this format. I plan to make many more videos but my summers are too busy. Let me know if that makes sense.Thanks!
@@CenteredTarnished I have deducted speculative lore on how she might be the gloam eyed queen. In the frenzied flame ending her eye is drained of color and the other is purple. The gloam eyed queen was also an emperian so she was born of a single god(ranni was born of a single god because of the amber egg, and melena was born at the foot of the erdtree, so neither was of sexual reproduction. The twins were due to the afflictions and that Melania has a bellybutton) when you kill marika as the lord of frenzied flame, that part of marika fades from melena. So either she is the gloam eyed queen or she is the vessel. Also another interesting thing if you sacrifice yourself at the forge of the Giants you do not die, probably because you are a vessel for the god of frenzied flame, if Melanie sacrifices herself and you still get the Lord of frenzied flame ending she still appears therefore she might be a vessel for a god. And I'm thinking that her motive might have been becoming the ruler of the elden ring and whenever you destroy the golden order she wants to take it back. But one last question that I have about her is that why does she say "destined death". Could guests and death have been before or after the black flame. Maybe when the gloam eyed Queen was defeated she became the black flame. Also considering that in Master igis suicide he is burning in black flame not destined death. It's crazy how sometimes you're trying to find some lore on something and you don't talk to a ghost in the game and you have no idea how something connects. What do you think of this.
@@BloredBean0did you watch the first part of this?
@@twodumbgamers9285 he clearly didnt
The godslayer sword also has resemblance to (me of) a double helix, reminiscent of DNA strands and/or a Caduceus (similarly).