Off the top of my head, briefly into the video, I must say it'd be extremely cool if you made a separate video covering the "Hero of Morne" origin theory. There's also the theory according to which Radagon was a misbegotten rebel who was brought into the fold by Godfrey and later "rebirthed" by Marika to contain her curses (see the Hewg-Marika relationship). It'd be amazing if you covered these mad ideas in a shorter video, similar to how you did with Radahn vs Morgott and Pidia and Seluvis (a video that, ironically, convinced me they are indeed one and the same haha).
Absolutely loved realizing the main theme of Elden Ring also happened to be Radagons very theme. It made my jaw drop realizing he truly was the center of it all.
@dvdivine1962 but he is at the center of it all. Imagine if he was at full strength. It's the same in every fromsoft game. The final boss is always weakened. Why do you think they do that? Hmm
@@roachies4242 Tonight, Gehrman joins the Hunt (althogh to be fair, he lost leg and is rather old by this point. Imagine Gehrman younger, Iudex Gundyr-style)
Radagon is such a mysterious person. I'm personally of the opinion that he is purely created from Marika. It reminds me a lot of how Athena supposedly arose out of Zeus' mind fully formed, so he called her his daughter. With all the parallels between Marika and Athena, I think Radagon is this same idea at play, but the roles reversed. A male divine persona arose out of Marika's mind, possibly to serve her purposes as a tool in addition to being her husband.
Or I wonder if it two identities with one consciousness and when Marika is Marika that's her trying to play a part. The lines are very muddy which I like
If everything came from the One Great... maybe the Greater Will, or Marika herself, had this side effect when she became a god because of just how strange life is in that world?
I think it’s really interesting how Radagon and Marika sort of started out with similar or same views, but as time went on and Marika began to rebel more against the Greater Will Radagon didn’t, which really shows how different they were even though they shared a body. And also how Radagon can be considered an antagonist in the way he protects an order that is clearly crumbling, and how he seals the erdtree with the thorns, and how he may have deceived Gideon into trying to stop us when he tried to gaze into marikas will, but instead found Radagons. All very compelling, great video as always!
Radagon wasn't the one who "deceived" Gideon. It doesn't make any sense, why would Radagon want the world to continuously crumble into nothing. Marika was the one who shattered the literal embodiment of order itself. Wouldn't it make sense for her to be the one to want the world to struggle endlessly?
@@alfalldoot6715think the idea is more Radagon doesn’t want the order to be changed, which if the Tarnished succeeds will happen. It’s less that he’s okay with the current state of the world but more that he believes he can with due time fix the elden ring and bring things back to before the Shattering, a hopeless task
@serafinopampena3097 But Radagon doesn't appear to be making any efforts to try and restore the ring, if anything he might be somewhat brain dead by the time we fight him since his skull is literally caved in and his eyes are cloudy.
@@alfalldoot6715Since Radagon and Marika share the same body by the time it got to that point. It's safe to say he did tried but failed, ending in the broken man we fight. Also, since Marika was hanging on what seems to be left of the ER, unable to do anything. It's obvious he couldn't anything too, they share the same body after all. Since it's true that the Golden Order of old could never be restored fully without a change of ruler. Radagon rather has his imperfect Order, as long as it's aligns with his vision.
@@VVabsa Wait I'm confused on what you're trying to say here. Radagon did try to repair the elden ring but that fell through pretty quickly and the Elden Beast imprisoned them both. Wouldn't it make make sense to assume that he put that seal on the second the struggle over the fate of the ring happened since the cross disables them both? So Radagon wouldn't be able to remove the seal whether he wanted to or not.
I've been really looking forward to this video. Radagon is easily my favourite character in Elden Ring. I remember I was enthralled by all the mystery surrounding him since the very first time I even heard of him from Miriel. And no matter how many times I see it, I always get goosebumps when we finally face him, and he raises up his hammer and turns his head towards us
Yes! I think that his duality with Marika makes him one of the most interesting character in all Souls games. In my head, he is both Marika and a separate person, and they can’t be divided and actually love each other!
For the hammer you described in the beginning - I always thought it might be referring to Hewg as the labourer who rebelled. And that him rebelling was what resulted in Marika “cursing” him (seems to be a thing she can do based on what we know of the last fire giant). Of course, Marika had other motives for what happened with Hewg.
I agree with you. Although now that you mention it, maybe what started out as a curse ended up being a straight up alliance? Seems like they were working together the whole time we talk with Hewg....or at least towards the same ends.
I always presumed that Hewg grew up in Leyndell considering how they seemingly treat misbegotten a little better so it wouldn't make sense for his hammer to be in Stormveil.
@@alfalldoot6715given he’s literally chained up and forced to forge weapons for the Tarnished I don’t think a place having better treatment is evidence he lived there, doesn’t seem he’s been treated very well. Also I’m pretty sure Leyndell doesn’t treat non-humans very well at all, at least going off of the Omen.
19:56 On Radagon's importance: if he is created after the war with the giants,Radagon would have had years to accrue military esteem and status. Even if he didn't, if he was appointed to be the leader of the campaign, the head of the host by Marika, that would've been enough (if he were a champion before the War this would've been easier). That he's in the same position as Rennala assumes that their social rank was also similar. By this point Radagon could've made quite a name for himself serving the FO.
A small note on the Golden Order Greatsword, the description at 44:57 may be a mistranslation. The Japanese text is as follows: そこには、最初の妻レナラから贈られた 大剣の面影があるという. The important part to note is the use of the term 面影 or "omokage". This has two potential meanings, one modern and one archaic. The modern translations include trace, vestige, or remnant, implying that there are detectable traces of the Moon Greatsword, which would indicate that it was reforged. The archaic translations include likeness, reminder, or in memory of someone, implying that the Moon Greatsword inspired the design of the Golden Order Greatsword, rather than being reforged into it. While this doesn't change the thematic point, it does offer some potential insight into the relationship between Radagon and Rennala.
The design of the weapons aren't that similar though, besides the shape of them. The crystals in our sword are there as a representation of frost, and there is no frost in Renallas moon
This is what --back during the height of Bloodbornes popularity -- caused me to lose interest in REALLY diving deep into Fromsoft lore. The deeper you dig for information the more important it becomes that the data you're sifting through is actually translates properly. Just a single word being wrong could have huge implications for other theories.
@jstar3382 thats becuase were not married to rennala but ranni. Radagon would have had the full moon greatsword instead. This is also reflected in the moon sorceries, ranni has frost but rennala doesn't
I have always had the feeling that Marika is full of regret, that she wants out of her situation. The way I interpreted Radagon was that at some point (maybe god ascension?) she became two halves, no doubt in part inspired by yin yang or even farther back than that in the real history. What I think happened is that while her first attempt to break the Elden Ring once in her regret was partially successful, Radagon then became her effective gaoler because that part of her could not resist the influence and instead became a weapon against the Marika half, and a new de facto tool. So Marika's plot is essentially orchestrated for us to remove the greatest threat to her freedom/oblivion/reincarnation (who knows), but of course we may also influence what happens. I have no idea if this really fits, but I never really had the feeling it was a benevolent relationship in Marika/Radagon. Not like a "ah hah! I am secretly two people, plotting to get ahead!" or "We're a power couple!", it just never rang right to me. Particularly, I think both the shattering as well as her ultimatum to the demogods seem designed to create chaos where randomness can be sown. Order rules, so how else can she hope to achieve anything other than by chaos?
It's also interresting to look at Radagon from an alchemical lens further than the rebus - the traditional four stages of Magnum Opus seem to parallel Radagon's journey: - Starting from Marika, the mercury, the Nigredo, Radagon is formed - His marriage to Renalla, the lunar queen has mutltiple parallels to Albedo, which is associated with purification (consider the Celestial Dew ritual), the moon, and the feminine - Citrinitas, the transition from silver to gold corresponds to Radagon's return to the golden order, his marriage to Marika. It is also associated with abandonment of the lunar light. - Radagon never reach Rubedo stage, and it is what Marika is mocking in the bedchamber speech - they never reach their final union, never become a single being, Radagon never becomes god. It gets kinda complicated because, I don't think alchemy usually considers two different feminine parts, but Radagon has Marika and Renalla playing this role at different parts of the journey, but it does seem like there's a correspondance. 'hero aspires to be complete' is also a very alchemical phrase.
My theory on Radagon’s origin has always centered around Marika’s slaying of the Fell God of the giants. I always speculated that perhaps a fraction or sliver of the Fell God’s essence attached itself to Marika in retaliation, forming a new identity within her. But that’s just my theory, it may be easily disproved.
Yeah I've definitely seen this one before so you're not off to be thinking that. People have suggested that he wasn't cursed, but rather, he is the curse.
Great video and great take, Smough! Loved every minute! What I find fascinating about Radagon is that most of the popular theories around him are only apparently contradictory, but can be made to work together, if one only keeps in mind the world’s rules and how the characters would use them. When it comes to Radagon, there’s a staggering amount of hints and clues scattered all over the place, leading to a lot of compelling and yet divergent theories. I’m striving to find a “unified theory”, with a special eye to the symbolism and echoes surrounding Marika-Radagon, since that’s a writing quirk that Martin and Myiazaki have in common. First, we should acknowledge that Radagon was Marika from at least his time in Leyndell; otherwise, there wouldn’t have been a secret for the sculptor to discover. As you say in the video, his secretiveness makes one think he was Marika even earlier. Then we have the D brothers, revlied everywhere for their nature (“two bodies and two minds, but one soul”), except then in the Golden Order. Why? Because they shared their condition with Marika and Radagon? Probably, but I doubt that the wider Golden Order were aware of that. I think it’s more likely that this condition mirrors the Fundamental Laws of the Order, and thus is held in high regard by the Fundamentalists. The D brothers incarnate the Law of Regression, because the souls, their “meanings”, have been pulled together; despite this, their “meanings” diverge along with their wills, thus embodying the Law of Causality. Of course, since the mind is the bridge between soul and body, their minds couldn’t diverge if they were of the same body. What I’m getting to is: I think Marika subjected herself to the D brothers’ condition in order to embody the Order she herself was creating. In order to do something like this, she must have joined herself with someone else. Someone who had the requirements to be her “solar king”, but more pliable than Godfrey. I still think the "Rebis" was the objective, just in a specifically "elden-ringian" way, rather than a generic "alchemy works like this and so Elden Ring works like thus". This is where the “Artificial Lord theory” and the “Rebel Lord theory” converge, according to my “unified theory”. I can’t link it here, but there’s a very interesting series of R*ddit posts by a deleted user, detailing a lot of the circumstantial evidence pointing Radagon to Limgrave and in particular to the Siege of Castle Morne. I’ve built upon that basis to conclude that Radagon was probably born a lowly labourer in ancient Stormveil, where he led a rebellion in the name of his people. This people would later be massacred by his old masters, or by Godfrey/Hoarah Loux (difficult to say for sure), upon which Radagon shed his old hammer and built himself a huge grafted sword (grafting upon a sword is also what he later did with Rennala’s wedding sword). Then Godfrey cast down the old Limgrave and only Radagon and his men refused to bow till the end, a la Asterix. Godfrey must have been so impressed by this champion, that he took him in. Since Radagon was already a rebel before his clan was extinguished, his defiance wasn’t founded on the desire for freedom, but on his envy towards those in higher places than him. With this in mind, it’s easy to see why Radagon bought into Marika’s dream in the end. Radahn mentions that he’s “born a Champion’s cub”, implying Radagon to be a lesser lion than Godfrey, but still a lion. He’s also chock-full of sun and solar-king symbolism, which is itself symbolically linked to lions. Something must have happened between Marika and Radagon, though, because they must have fused their souls prior to the First Liurnian War, the first public appearance of “modern” Radagon. Maybe it was because Radagon was originally a leonine misbegotten, descended from giants and linked to the Crucible of old, the dynamic half to Marika’s static foundations. Radagon was simply the perfect receptacle for what Marika needed in her order, but didn’t want on herself, like the so-called curse of the giants. What could Radagon ask in return? To be reborn, finally perfect. Maybe Radagon was a misbegotten still when Rennala fell in love with him, and the fusion of golden amber and glintstone made him a rebirthed man. But I think Marika had all the means and knowledge to do it herself, before unleashing him upon Liurnia, since I also think the amber egg is integral to this process, acting as a crucible where to add silver and sulphur, in order to create the Rebis (guess who's who in this analogy), thus making it both Radagon's shed cocoon and egg to plant in Rennala's nest (like a cuckoo). This would also explain the Crusader… he must have been an old lieutenant of his, from before his rebirth, and why Hugh was contacted by Marika: he used to be Radagon’s blacksmith. Sadly, Radagon never felt perfect, nor fully belonging to the Golden Order. He always felt apart and strove to fit in with a feverish obsession that only a convert could have. That’s why he, like Marika, needed to better understand the Golden Order, because he wanted to see that he was essential to his workings. Marika’s disillusionment and manipulatory treatment of him surely didn’t help him in this regard. I also think that the First Liurnian War was a “test run”, to check whether Radagon was a fit successor and whether he was truly so dedicated to the Order. It is said that “his glory burned red like his hair” in that war, implying to me that this is the first time he made a name for himself. I think Rennala was undergoing the same process on the other side, rising as a superior champion for the Academy, thanks to her Full Moon powers. If she was originally a champion, she must have fought in a war when she wasn’t queen already. The First Liurnian War is the only possible option. That’s why everyone in the Academy was so eager to put her on the throne: she had just found out a new source of magic power that had saved them from the Erdtree’s invasion, despite Radagon’s ferocious efforts to defeat them. Rennala was a trump card that Marika didn’t expect, and thus she laid in motion the events that led to the second war. That’s why Radagon was put at the head of that second army, and not Godfrey. Then the theory continues pretty much as you’ve stated in your video (which is excellent, by the way!). I hope someone reads this comment and asks questions. Feel free to poke holes in it, of course! Of course, all of this is a bit clunky at times, but it's a work in progress and I feel that I'm onto something that could unlock the Radagon conundrum (or a close approximation to that, since the mystery will never fully go away in any case).
I wish he had a second phase, and Elden Beast was just ceremonial. If there's an interesting character with lore to supplant that, it's Radagon, not the Elden Beast.
Can't thank you enough for the consistency in the quality of your content. In my opinion, your Elden Ring videos are the best you can find out there and the extra content is simply top notch as well. I will watch this with a smile brother!
I think that an aspect of the Marika-Radagon situation can be made more parsimonious if we take into account the references to Christian religions found in the Golden Order and Leyndell society. While there are obvious ones like crucifiction and thorny crowns, we should also consider separate personalities composing one sole divine being. This is speculation, but it may be the case the Marika incarnated an aspect of herself into a human of the Northerner race, a reference to Jesus in Christian religions. We know that Marika has, shall we say, "living contingency plans". She deprived the Tarnished of Grace with the intention of having them come back. It would then be unsurprising if she created a male aspect of herself to use whenever appropriate. Then, when Marika deemed it appropriate she chose to physically fuse with Radagon to become the perfect complete Rebis. In this manner, Radagon can be of partial Giant descent (at least his physical body), and all of the demigod children can still be of Marika (as stated by Enia). This would also explain how Radagon "came out of nowhere". Marika would have metaphorically had him in her pocket, ready to use him when the time was right. Side note: what if Malenia and Miquella were born afflicted because they were born after Marikadagon removed the Great Rune of unborn demigods from the Elden Ring?
Agreed. He doesn't give me Jesus vibes though, he's more like a Martin Luther -King-, the speech he gave at the -church of pilgrimage- minor erdtree church (Of course, Melina said that it was Marika's words but it really wasn't, he literally calls the people listening "comrades") and its content shows that he was hellbent on reformation (No pun intended). He genuinely had a "protestant" moment. I think Marika herself is Jesus, and Radagon's creation and evolution mirrors stages Christianity went through. I mean, his Golden Order's ways have literally been dubbed "fundamentalism". It can't hit us any harder on the head than that 🤣👌
Agreed, I also do think that Radagon and Marika were eventually two seperate bodies, with one soul split between them. I can understand how Morgott kept his "veiled monarch" identity up for a long while, but I doubt Marika/Radagon would have been able to keep their secret standing to most people's eyes for that long. Although, admittedly this does clash with the alchemistic allegories, but perhaps those come in because Radagon/Marika are able to switch look (and supposedly personality) while using the same body (they do that before fighting us so we can assume they could do that anytime). This also begs the question, how many characters knew? Did Godfrey, Godwyn, Rennala and her children know?
I don’t think I’ve seen any of these videos that was not excellent, they’re so good and it’s clear you put a lot of thought and time into them. Keep up the good work, and don’t you dare go hollow
Ive been slowly digesting this one and just want to say that I truly appreciate how humble you are in your conclusions. A lot of content creators seem to be more concerned with being right than about honestly engaging the topic that by design leaves a lot open to interpretation. Keep up the amazing work!
A theory I have is that Marika had full control over Radagon during the Liurnian War, but he became more and more independant as Marika's faith withered. Thus, Radagon's marriage to Marika was for control over the body of a god. I also believe there's a chance that Rennala knew about Maragon after they wed.
This is incredible, I was just immersed in many of these item descriptions as i was playing earlier, and almost simultaneously, Smough has just wrapped up a beautiful lore dump to help me weigh my thoughts. You got me hooked now.
Very good analysis! Something is missing though - when you defeat Radagon as a boss, the Elden Beast quite literally transforms him into the Sacred Relic Sword - he becomes a weapon that also holds his characteristic T-pose. I think this might be a very subtle hint to why he was created.
Yeah. It's also why I think Marika didn't create him, precisely. The thing that made them both what they are is likely the one holding them like a weapon, no? Not to say the Elden Beast literally made them from scratch, though. Marika clearly came from somewhere, and Radagon came from there, too. If he didn't,he wouldn't have" joined the houses of the Erdtree and Caria" in the first place.
@@alyseleem2692 Oh I think the language of the marriage is that he "conjoined" the houses of the Erdtree and Caria. He was already an Erdtree Champion by then." But yeah it's questionable if Marika created him or whether it was the Elden Beast or Elden Ring that made him when Marika first became disillusioned with the Greater Will. A very unconfirmed but little observation I have is that Radagon holds the personality that Marika had following the war with the Giants, only after which Marika is quoted saying that Erdtree society should round out their faith with intelligence. It's like Marika's personality split during the Godskin uprising that probably occurred after the Giant war, and Radagon was assembled from Marika's memories from that time, which might be why he has giants red hair. Perhaps the Elden Ring within Marika carved him from her memories as a self preservation mechanism when Marika first began doubting the Greater Will and the Elden Ring?
@@monsieurdorgat6864 Yeah, but the thing is: Regardless of his actual origin, Radagon being a " champion" is not enough to join the houses. In other words, at least officially speaking, he was already recognised as a royal in public. We may know that " Radagon is Marika", but we don't know who he was to the masses at the time, or whether it was, in fact, his true origin. I believe Radagon and Marika are too much like opposites to have ever been truly the same person, or even a singular entity, unless whatever they grew out of was a third party that had aspects of both. Marika is ruthless, intelligent, uncompromising, conniving and cruel. She massacred the Giants. She threw out her own sons and later, her husband because " civilisation had advanced". The only person I could think she mightve loved in some way is Godwyn, and even that is undercut by the idea she mightve had a hand in his assassination. She didn't " doubt" the Golden Order; she MADE the Golden Order. She might’ve thought it was worth renovating, but it wasn't a question of faith. She made it. She broke it. I sincerely doubt she made that quote,too. Marika is a god; she wouldn't call people " comrades",or discuss matters of faith to people who believe in her. How do you doubt a religion which is about yourself?! Radagon, on the other hand... Radagon is attached to the Golden Order. And that is incredibly strange,because he I attached to it DESPITE Marika, even though the founding principle of the Golden Order is that Marika is the one true god, a principle he breaks simply by existing. He's a father who loves his children( or at least, Miquella. No indication he hated the rest; they became demigods, and Radahn and Rykard both used his hair as heraldry,which says something) and was willing to cease aggression with Rennala. In the words of Miriel, he believed that " all things can be conjoined". At least, when it involved him and his crush, that is. But more importantly, he sought...completeness?! A possible idea was that he, and possibly Marika herself, did believe in the Golden Order once, in the sense of creating a world without Death or ( supposedly) suffering. To be fair,some people think of that as a prophetic,perfect world, especially in a religious context. That said, it failed miserably, and one of them can't let go of it. The best thing I could come up was that Radagon didn't want the Shattering to happen specifically because he didn't want their children to get killed. Marika,however, illustrated her point of view on that quite clearly. " Hear me, demigods. My children beloved. Make of thyselves that which ye desire; be it a Lord, be it a God. But should ye fail to become ought at all... Ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifices. "
Radagon is one of the most interesting and confusing to understand character but this helps me understand his character. Great Radagon lore video Smough have a good day
My theory is that Marika had split herself into two, her original self and the parts of her that she deemed “negative” as to give herself more freedom. Divesting herself of her devotion to the golden order as I think it’s said in the lore that she begins to lose faith in the golden order and the greater will, along with the red hair that she was cursed with by the last fire giant. Radagon is still a part of Marika but has yet to “become her” as she sends him away to marry Rannala. But when Marika sends Godfrey away, it makes sense that she would need to bring Radagon back to herself as she plans to destroy the Elden Ring. Being able to control Radagon to a certain extent to keep him from preventing her from shattering it. They become one again when he returns to her and becomes second elden lord, which could be seen as a metaphorical marriage, the union of two beings becoming one again. Not sure if any of this makes sense I just always saw Radagon as being split from Marika for a time before he comes back and they join together once again.
Actually in one of Melina's 'whispers of the Queen Marika', she mentions that she will wage war and brandish the elden ring. I believe this is her referring to go to war against Caria as Radagon.
It always made sense to me that Radagon was created from Marika, an offshoot of her, while she was at the hight of her belief in the Golden Order. She sends him out with a mission, be it to learn, create, improve the GO, or remove the Carian RF, doesn't matter. Somehow, I always sensed an implication of this as "only when you're successful, will you merge back with Marika". Radagon's rune, and his whole characterisation is of a lattice support for what's already there. So when they marry, they "become one" but their personalities haven't merged back together yet because time has created a dissonance between them: Radagon's belief in the GO remains strong while Marika isn't only rife with doubts but has actively started investigating the flaws, dissilusioned. If you want an on the nose metaphor, feels like when you're learning about science for the first time, after a lifetime of religious upbringing. One part of you wants to continue believing in God, while the other sees all the flaws.
This direction of interpretation came intuitively to me as well, after stewing over enough lore. You've put it into well words, I think. There ought to be an inception point for Radagon's interactions with Marika, prior to the first known record of his appearance. And it makes sense to me, knowing how Marika ruled & treated those close to her, to assume she'd have been similarly ruthless even to Radagon when the seeds were originally sown. Just how much individuality Radagon was privileged to have may always remain a mystery, but it does feel like the answer is almost staring us in the face, even when one can't exactly point to it.
I like your use of plant themes here, Radagon being an "offshoot" and his rune being a lattice, like one that would support young plants. It fits with Marika's plant-based dynasty, what with her offspring grafting others and naming their own experiments "Grafted Scions"
Because science and religion are completely incompatible, as stated by some random ass TH-cam comment. Issac Newton and like a 1000 years of scholarship is just gone, I guess.
@@alfalldoot6715 personally I disagree that the fundamentals of religion are incompatible with science. Science merely reveals truth. What we know of science helps to inform what we can and can not trust of our own history. Furthermore, if you expand upon the tenets of religious doctrine, you get something akin to philosophy. And on that matter I would argue its just as critical to Human society as science or religion, yet also dependent upon the marriage of the two
@NerdOracle I agree with you. The greatest minds of the Renaissance were also religious scholars. Also philosophy and theology went hand in hand with each other until like the Enlightenment
QUESTION: If Radagon was always one with Marika, that means Marika's body was in Liurnia during Radagon's entire marriage to Rennala. How could the queen be absent from Leyndell for all that time? Wouldn't Godfrey and everyone notice that she was missing? Thanks for another amazing video!!
We are talking about a literal godess whose body is the vessel for the code of principles that dictate reality, so it's best not to assume the same restrictions of an ordinary person apply
Yeah I thought they just used the sites of grace for fast travel, also, someone else could have taken her likeness. Rennala's entire phase 2 is a spell made by Ranni, and it's a 1:1 recreation of her. There's also the mimic veil which belonged to Queen Marika, and that can certainly create a great camouflage
I think even though Radagon was created from Marika by the Greater will, I think they can still split from each others physical bodies, and also regress and fuse back together, otherwise it doesnt make sense when Marika says to Radagon, thou are yet to become me, thou are yet to become a god, along with the law of regression etc.
I love the enthusiasm! It’s so damn cool to me how souls game just captivate people for years after. It’s amazing, their legacy. It’s so impressive to me and it rarely happens with other games, but most every fromsoft game gets analyzed for years after. I mean, FF XVIj ust came out, well recently, and it was hotly anticipated. But now almost 2 months later, no one is talking about it this much, like this game. Also! One more thing: the community around these games just feels way more collaborative and positive. Everyone is working together to solve these mysteries together. Meanwhile over on the subreddit for XVI I experienced some of THE worst cruelty and general vileness, full of smug and yeah, just point blank mean assholes. They didn’t want to participate in a friendly community, no, they sought to tear down others who expressed their critical views on the game, I was subjected to that myself. Anyway, I’m done bitchin, and I love fromsoft. Be well, all.
I never noticed till this video that Hewg and Gideon actually stand opposite to each other in the Round Table Hold. One burdened by knowing the truth of Queen Marika and honoring her wishes. The other blind to the truth until there is no other option to stop your Tarnished from reaching the Elden Ring. In a similar line of thinking It can be seen as an ironic twist that Radagon who did not want the Tarnished to reach the Elden Ring relies on a Tarnished to stop anyone from approaching. While Marika relied on a Misbegotten, people who are persecuted and outcast by the Golden Order, to help the Tarnish who are similarly looked down upon by believers and members of the Golden Order.
Great video as always, but the sentence at 28:52 suggests to me that not Marika and Radagon are the Rebis (or at least not the only one), but that their son Miquella might be. After all he seems to have both a male and female form.
regarding their duality, its also quite interestingg that the beast during the P2 transition separates radagon from marika. You can ,after the fight, leave and redeem the remembrance and use the sword that is 'the body of a god' ,yet marikas cadavar is still right there. FS arent the type of devs to make such decisions without contextual reasons, so i do believe if they can be separated, they once were probably separate to begin with. Just my 2 cents.
I actually love that we are still debating this, that everyone has a theory, and they propose great arguments for why they think it's true. A genuinely fascinating "mystery".
I think like the video by SmoughTown, that Radagon wasnt separate from the beginning, he was created when the Greater Will ascended Marika to Godhood, to become a god they needed a Rebus body in order to host the elden ring/elden beast, which is why their body is now like clay. I do think however they are able to separate from each other after Radagon was created, I dont think they are stuck with one physical body all the time that can transform, because that limitation would make reproducing and having twin children difficult, unless Marika simply became pregnant asexually. Also if they always had to switch form with one body, it would be hard to convince people that they are married when they can never be seen at the same time together. So I think after Radagon left Renala, he came back to Marika, and probably some time after they had Miquella and Malenia, and when their goals started to separate, Radagon being pro golden order and Marika starting to reject the order, I think she "forced" him somehow to merge back with her body. I think her comment that he is yet to become her, and to become a god, is a reference to this coming act of regression.
@@IndoManiac90 i agree that they were separate during the events laid out in the game, why would marika have 'spoken echoes' in the bed chamber when she calls him a 'dog' (hound) if radagon is a part of her, she's talking to him ,most likely face to face. Also Malenia has a belly button, implying she was birthed normally, so they must've copulated.
Hahaha great to see you here buddy! Your work is astonishing dude and I really appreciate all the work you've done for the community. Thank you my friend
The theories about him being a curse, or a mimic tear, or as tarnished archeologist put it "an insurance policy", and some people have described him as a "science project"... are fascinating! It's not that they're incorrect, but the opposite, they're all entirely possible.
@@SmoughTown Yes,but that leaves the question of Radagon's public identity. We understand that, if Radagon is Marika, then he bound the royal houses of the Erdtree and Caria because of literally being the head of the former. But as we know, that is a secret. As such, there'd have to be a public origin story for Radagon that explains his relation to the royal house of the Erdtree. In fact, if the theory that he'd always been Marika was incorrect, this might be his true origin story, but in both cases: We need to figure out that relation, whether it is false or not, because it would shed more light on Radagon's early years. He was publicly acknowledged as a royal; the question is why?
The Golden order is a religion. Viewed through that lense Radagon is the Golden Order’s appeal to the commoner. The infatuation of royals with this religion is obvious but this tilt to the avg joe begins with Radagon and matures with Miquella. It shows the path that anyone can walk to become whole or godlike. His Soreseal and Scarseal only scale strength that’s his “original” form. He learned sorcery then incantations to become whole. It makes sense to create a narrative to keep the small folk from rebelling. Gostoc is a living example of the disdain for royalty.
Good work, that was the best and most interesting video so far. Radagon is so central to everything that happens in the game, it was good to get a deep dive on him.
Radagon is probably my favorite final boss in souls. His and marika's relationship and shifting ideals really are the root of so much of the major events that happen after the defeat of the fire giants. Its also fascinating that marika seems to have been counting on godfrey and/or the tarnished challenging him since before they were married.
I'm in the camp of Radagon and Marika being separate people originally, but Marika grafted Radagon to herself. The concept of grafting is so prevalent in Elden Ring's story that I can't see it not used in this plot point of two characters being one person. As to why, I think it was so Marika could gain some kind of ability or to trigger some kind of change to spite the Greater Will.
@@alfalldoot6715dude it’s used by Godfrey to grant him serosh’s kingly nature, and it is depicted as being how the Erdtree came to be on the stone slab at it’s base, grafting is a major theme of the game not just a one off boss detail
@@Nowherehere-moved Spiritually, yes. Implications such as Ranni, Malenia being of the Rot God, Rykard and the Serpent, The Erdtree and the Elden Ring etc. This is just another example of cases.
Good video. It’s also interesting to think about Marika and Radagon’s children, Miquella and Malenia, reflect your point of one being the passive matter and the other the active agent(?). That’s all without mentioning how one looks blonde and the other a red head, among other things. Gave me a lot more to think about
Yeah. I had this crazy idea that the two pf them used to be the same. Think about it. Radagon was a member of the House of the Erdtree, joining it to Caria through marrying Rennala, but he isn't mentioned as a demigod son of Marika's. He despised his red locks, which indicate a curse of the Fell God, at least in the case of the Fire Giants.... Like Malenia hated her Rot. Why was Radagon so loyal to the Golden Order? Why else,if he didn't have a curse which he thought the Order would " free" him from?
Turning Marika into a Rebis obviously went wrong, since Malenia and Miquella (and maybe Melina) were born afflicted. I'd also be interested into the story behind the fingerslayer blade. It looks like the sword that Radagon gets turned into during the Elden Beast bossfight, just a bit unhealthier.
I wouldn't be surprised if a Rebis is just fundamentally flawed as a concept and impossible to "get right." It's a walking talking paradox. Anything born of it would likewise be profoundly flawed.
The Marika/Radagon mystery at the core of Elden Ring is fascinating to me. Two of the most influential and prominent figures being shrouded in such mystery was such a good narrative and design choice!
I wonder if perhaps Radagon is a manifestation of some sort of curse bestowed upon Marika once she had the fire giants put to the sword. Like a revenge curse that forced her to split off into another person's cursed with the red hair of the beings she had exterminated.
I’ve observed that each Main Boss, the ones with Great Runes, we fight represents one of the Seven Deadly Sins… maybe there is a hidden meaning to that: - Radahn: Wrath (after being rotten away). - Rennala: Sloth - Rykard: Gluttony - Malenia: Pride - Godrick: Greed (becoming more powerful with grafting) - Mohg: Lust - Morgott: Envy (of his siblings for not being Omen)
Smough, this may genuinely be your best video to date. And that says A LOT since you always maintain such amazing quality with each video. I had no idea Radagon was such a deep character, and now I am starting to formulate my own theories with this in mind. Thank you so much Geoff!!!
This lore video might be one of new favorites. Too often I have them on in the background and nod away to the same theories being said over and over, but This video had a lot of new thoughts and revelations. Well done to all involved.
As far as Radagon's appearance. I thought that to be a potential curse on Marika from the Fell God. Given the clear hatred for the Fire Giants in her dialogue. Perhaps in a final act of spite, due to the lost of it's followers. The Fell God sought to humble Marika with an eternal reminder of them.
My theory is that Radagon is Marika's congenital twin(a red haired twin) that she absorbed while they were growing in their mother's womb. This would make Marika the Eternal a being that isn't flawless, but instead an Alloyed gold, or a being that is made of two parts(like EVERYTHING in this game). She then gave life and disembodied herself from her unborn twin(whom therefore possessed the great rune of the unborn) when the need arose to create a champion to serve her against Caria. This would explain why they are the same person yet end up opposing one another, how they are the same person yet Marika is clearly framed as above him (thou are yet to become me, yet to become a God, let us shatter together, mine other self) and why the Radagon-Marika duality is identified by Goldmask as the flaw of the golden order. That is, the order based on Marika being the one true god, is flawed, as Marika is not one, but two within one, and Marika is not flawless, as her two halves grow in conflict with each other. It fits too well with the game's themes of duality, of fractured parts of a whole, the motif of twins so present throughout, and the odd, contradictory dynamic between Radagon and Marika, that is two people that are at the same time one, yet are somehow different.
This! I was looking for this! I thought the same, but was unable to put it into words( and did not think about her absorbing a fetus befor birth)! Thanks! That would make sense since i cannot see how she could have left to liurnia as radagon without it being a big event! I mean the queen AND GOD would be gone. This makes so much more sense.
I always listen to your videos while taking a long walks into nearby forests with my dog. Such an escape from reality, makes me forget about all the sad things. Last words about two siblings who protect the weak using their strenghts made me cry. Thank you for this amazing video as usual.
Spectacular work, Smough!! I love how you were able to clarify the characterization of Radagon. I always found it odd that he had no voice lines in the cutscene or the boss battle, so it felt like something was missing. The brief glimpses of him from Miriel and the Fundamentalist incantations really built up this mysterious figure. It has to be true that it was Radagon's will that Gideon glimpsed instead of Marika's, but I never would have considered it! That contradiction in Marika's plans always put me into the camp of Marika being a mastermind, a schemer, and privy to the Night of the Black Knives.
I have to listen to that again. Wow. Very insightful. I've always been curious about Radagons motivations. Thank you thank you for sharing your insight. Food for thought, what if instead of Marika being a part of the Night of the Black Knives that plot role was Radagon? Anyways. Great video. I'm a sucker for Radahn. But an overview would be really cool with all the dlc speculation about.
Thanks so much as always for being here! Really glad you enjoyed it; that's a great shout re the black knives, I hadnt considered that. Radahn seems to be asked for a fair bit...might be his time!
Ah yes radagon of the Golden Order... This is definitely a good evaluation on how he came to be in these lands. Once again my props to you my fellow I hope you continue the pursue of knowledge
With Marikas connection to the Numen and Nox I like the idea that he was an attempt by them to create a Lord, which explains how he appeared so suddenly in the world
Seems like Marika suffers from multiple personality disorder, but not like us she can be 2 separate entities at the same time that contradict each other... Thank you smoughtown for providing us so much more 👍
Aaand SmoughTown does it again Usually I pick out details and theories I disagree or find incoherent or point out spaces to further the philosophical discourse on ER. Not this one. This truly was one of the most complete, well structured and significant works on the subject of Radagon. Ten outta ten
@@SmoughTown for clarification, it's not that I think a content is good when I 100% agree with it. In fact this one is especially good right because it also made me change my mind on a few details. Kudos
9:31 I have to say I have insane respect for how willing you are to change your conclusions. I think that’s why you and TA are my favorites (no offense to anyone else, everyone keep making content please) because you look at the pieces and connect dots, but you let the evidence change your opinion or conclusion. You seem very unbiased as an investigator.
Cheers bud - I think i just have to sometimes admit i was wrong, especially when I get other people's perspective on the lore and they just look at it in a way I would never have considered. Honored to be there next to TA
So excited for this one! Again thank you so much for all the hard work you put into each and every one of these lore videos! The attention to detail and quality of your productions have just gotten better as time goes on. You quickly became my favourite Elden Ring content creator, lore or otherwise, because of this. I hope you can continue having a passion for ER lore or any FromSoft game lore, because you are a gem in our community making some of the best content out there! 💎 🥰
@@SmoughTown Glad to hear you have no plans on stopping as of yet! Your videos are all fantastic, I just couldn't stop watching them once I started.. I must have watched them all at least twice in order, and a few of them probably 3 or 4 times, they're just that good! Also your Bloodborne lore video on The Choir was an amazing watch, even though I've never actually played the game before, I find the lore so fascinating and had to dive into the rest of it myself so that I could rewatch that video with a new understanding. I wish you nothing but the best, and hope that your channel continues to grow as quickly as possible! I can't think of a single content creator who deserves a larger audience more! Keep up the amazing work! 🙏🥰
It's Saturday, I have nothing to do, aside from chores, guess it's time to rewatch/listen to some awesome content again! The best part of your lore videos is they are so high-quality that you can just listen over and over!
More Lore, I'm at work, and it's SmoughTown. What a wonderful day. Radagon is one of the best characters in the game and he shows up once. He preserves the golden order preventing any further slippage of the golden order. And he has subdued Marika his other half. I wish I could have seen a fight between him and Godfrey in their prime.
@@SmoughTown It was so good! The video and the food. Haha. I ended up feeling really sad for him after you described him as trying to find out who/what he is. He is such a tragic hero, and I wish there was an ending where we could keep him alive and rebuild the Order he tirelessly strove to defend. He is the most interesting and complex character in the lore, and I want to see From's notes on this stuff so badly. Thank you again for the amazing coverage!
Loved the video and it resonates with some of my own head cannon greatly. I am convinced Radagon and Marika are somehow twins sharing one body or of an origin akin to D. I cant make the tinfoil stretch well enough to explain everything but the themes of twins, hermaphrodites and two halves of a whole fits far too well. In a way that Melania and Miquella should have been one combined empyrean, their separation opened room for outside influence and their current afflictions. I don't know if it's a requirement for all empyreans to be this dual entity but it raises questions over who else could be the counterpart for them and lore implications of such Miquella & St Trina or Melania, Radagon and Marika, Rani & ???, Gloam eyed queen & ???
I firmly believe Radagon was originally his own person. His backstory being completely up for interpretation is something I believe to be intentional should the upcoming DLC reveal some more information about him through Miquella's words (as they both had a close bond as stated by the fundamentalist incantations they created). We will hopefully get an answer then. He most likely was an individual whose talent just happened to be his incredible charisma and he was otherwise low-born (as implied somewhat by Miriel), and for some reason (perhaps due to his lowly birth-right) attained a strong desire to attain perfection. He learned sorceries from the best magic user and later took the first opportunity to take Marika's side--even if it left his ex-wife heart-broken. As long as he could acquire everything, he would sacrifice anything, even himself to become that perfect being, which is why he so easily became the "Leal dog of the Golden Order". He upheld the ideals of the Golden Order because it would lead to his ultimate goal--perfection... attaining everything for himself. Radagon might have married Rennala as a last resort to prevent himself from failing where Godfrey succeeded in eliminating key threats to the Erdtree. By creating powerful children through Radahn, Ranni and Rykard and rendering Rennala docile, Radagon probably used that to bolster his reputation to gain favor with the Greater Will so that they would accept him as a potential replacement for Marika. That is why I believe the Greater Will would have accepted Radagon as consort for Marika. But he is evidentially not cold-blooded since he showed some care for Rennala by leaving her a Great Rune and even leaving his pet to safe-guard her. As for why he hated his hair? This is more evidence that he upheld the values of the Greater Will, and when he took Marika's body, we see him depicted with blond hair right before his boss fight and during the 2019 trailer and the intro cutscene... He hated the giant blood that was within him--assuming of course he was born a descendant of giants. He probably even associated himself with Omen and Albinaurics--having impure blood... hence why he sought after the perfect vessel to cleanse himself... Marika, the Eternal. It's even more messed up because we are led to assume he only had a good relationship with Miquella--his only child that had blond hair instead of red... I think when Miquella and Malenia were conceived, this is when Radagon began assimilating with Marika. Keep in mind it is only Radagon's children who ended up with red hair... None of the children Marika has with Godfrey had any red hair. Only Golden and Gray... and whatever hair Mohg has lol. And of course, we can all agree Melina is the last child of Marika and Radagon, conceived during the Shattering. Edit: Also, I would like to point out that Marika's cruelty towards the Giants may not have been because she personally had a vendetta against them, but because the Greater Will deemed them as a threat and this was quite early on in Marika's rule. She would have been devoted to the Greater Will, and acted as their voice willingly. words of Marika that take place later in the timeline indicate some hesitation or outright resentment towards the Greater Will, as they ended up revealing their true colors after subjugating the Lands Between in its entirety and robbed the Grace from Godfrey and the Tarnished. Marika would've realized she was tricked and thus began plotting against the Greater Will... and at the same time, the Greater Will used Radagon as their instrument to put her in check once she attempted to destroy the Elden Ring.
Reminds me of a high level D&D trick. Make a Simulacrum. You can use other things, but a Simulacrum works best, since it has your mind. And goals at time of creation. True Polymorph the Simulacrum. It takes on the stats of whatever, but keeps the mind and alignment. The True Polymorph has to be of the creature it’s cast ons level or CR or lower. Gender bending is an option. And you have to have seen the type of creature you turn it into before. It is permanent if it lasts a certain amount of time. Expires on death though. (Some say this pops you into your old form. Some say you just die.) Then you have Clone. Clone builds a backup body for the creature it’s cast on. Uploads on death. This means that it likely wouldn’t replicate the True Polymorph, it also can’t undo the True Polymorph. The simplest option is it makes a Clone of you True Polymorphed form. Suggesting when you die, and upload into the new form, that new body is just you now. Nothing to revert too. If you banged yourself, I’d curse your offspring. Not so much if your other self banged someone else. Naturally the Clone turns your other self diminutive. I wouldn’t change your offspring as a DM unless you truly became that other creature. This solves that. It’s also a great way to permanently depower a BBEG who resurrects. I’d also rule any Geas or Modified Memory can become permanent this way. If you cast it on the creature then Clone it. My reasoning being, the power to sustain the spell wouldn’t continue, but it’s imprint on the creatures form would transfer. But you don’t have to.
Yeahhhh buddy, new smoughtown Lore Vid . Let's get it !!! Btw i think Radagon is a result of Marika concentrating the giants curse and the loyalty to the greater will and manifesting it into a body separate from herself . This would help her to collaborate with Ranni to bring on the night of the black knives . It would also help to explain Radagons red hair . A little out there i know but possible nonetheless.
Great work, as usual! I find it odd that Radagon would create the red wolves and lion misbegotten with red hair intentionally, considering that he hated his red hair. Maybe he created them from himself, which is why their hair came out red.
Well he himself hated his red hair, because of giant association, but eventually his red hair was seen as a positive by the people; that includes his own children like Radahn. So even if he didn't like his hair color, the representation in current Erdtree society could be why he made his wolves' hair red like his.
Great analysis once again Smoughtown. An old idea that I thought of (I'm almost definitely not the first to think of it) was about whether or not Radagon could be an albinauric. It's an interesting idea to me, and I see a few key pieces of evidence. 1. Marika is known to have a hammer. The hammer she owned came with her from beyond the lands between. It is the same hammer radagon uses in our battle with him. Hammers are commonly associated with smithing and forging. 2. Marika and the Numen are heavily associated with the eternal city. 3. Radagon appeared suddenly in the timeline as you pointed out. 4. The eternal city is known to have been attempting to "forge a lord". 5. Radagon became a lord. 6. Radagon (as well as marika at first, when we see her) is fading away partially. The only other characters that I am aware of who fade away are all albinaurics. 7. Radagon is associated with wolves, at least one of whom is located in the consecrated snowfield, near many other albinauric women who are also connected to wolves. 8. Radagon battled and then aligned himself with Caria, a royal family known to have significant dealings with and to have enslaved albinaurics. 9. Rykard, Radagon's son, is seen as having tortured and experimented on albinaurics, presumably for the sake of learning about them, if not to simply oust them as impure beings, being a praetor for the erdtree prior to his current state. 10. Ranni, Radagon's daughter is known to have at least one male albinauric in her service, Pidia, who is heavily connected in some way to Preceptor Seluvis, who would have been directly connected to Radagon and possibly have known secrets about him. Maybe Miquella and Malenia's cursed existences could stem from being born partially of an albinauric, who it is said exist outsie of the erdtree's, and thus the greater will's grace.
Great video. But I have a different theory on the wolves. I think they are hunting at least Ranni and Miquella. They appear in places of their power (or even presence) but there are a few Miquella lillys in Carian Manor. I am kind of looking into Miquella's lillys to see if it might track his journey (not sure if it would be in a timeline) but I think the wolves are hunting. And guarding his secrets. Same for having a preceptor on Ranni's team.
Most of them are seen protecting things, though, like with the one in Raya Lucaria. The one in Caria Manor especially just appears to be looking over its pack.
i do think it’s really curious that so many people pick up that one line from melina’s speech but entirely overlook the very next line which almost completely negates the point they try to make.
I gotta say, I was very, very, VERY skeptical when you first presented your thesis. I mean, I fought it the entire way through this video. But you, sir, are an excellent essayist and researcher. Gourmet stuff right here. Everything you've presented is overwhelmingly compelling as evidence, but what really sealed it for me was how you also used it to create an even more compelling narrative theme for the game. Probably my favorite video of yours now. Thanks for all the hard work! I've saved all your reference videos to my Watch Later playlist as well, so I appreciate the care you take in citing your references.
Maybe the "simple laborer" was Hoarah Loux before he took up the rebellion alongside Marika to establish the Golden Order. The guy had to start somewhere.
Miquella: "so how come i never see you and mom in the same room together" Radagon: "haha i'll tell you when you're older" Miquella, cursed with eternal youth: "..."
I think most of this video is spot on, but I do tend to disagree with tarnished archaeologist's theory that the misbegottens are attacking the Haligteee. They could have easily set the scene there with them being embroiled in a battle with the Haligteee knights, but they didn't. Instead most of the misbegotten can be seen praying, some of them even praying to statues depicting Melania and Miquella. We know Miquella was trying to create an order that accepted those outside of the Erdtree's grace. His brother lived in death, his other brother was an omen, his sister was afflicted by the outer god of rot, and so it only makes sense that the misbegotten would be included in his order. We see Albanaurics guarding the path to Haligteee, and so it seems like the misbegotten are guarding the village at the base of the Haligteee
I have always thought of Marika as similar to the Nameless Namekian in DragonBall. In order to become a God, the Nameless Namekian had to split himself into two separate beings. This created Kami and Piccolo. They each were individuals living their own lives, but they were always spiritually connected. If one died, so did the other. Only Kami became a God, while Piccolo became a warrior class. This is until they later refused back into one body in order to become more powerful. I believe Marika split either when she became a God, or from being cursed by the giants. They then each lived their own separate lives despite still being connected. They then refused most likely at their wedding, or during the shattering. If they were always one body it just never made sense to me how Marika could have lived for so long away from the capital without anyone noticing, even her family.
I love Radagon's trellis symbolism, especially how it's what indicates that he's the one sealing the Erdtree from all who deign approach. Ratatoskr has a really nice video on Radahn you should look into, about how his presence in the Shattering wars was one of maintaining the current order, and that that's exactly why he comes in conflict with Malenia, who wants to reject the Erdtree and the Golden Order, establishing Miquella's Haligtree in its place.
Yes but is he sealing it to actually stop you, or to ensure your journey culminates in success as you burn the Erdtree (Thereby weakening the Elden Beast even further) and obtaining the rune of death, the only true way to kill a god. Because that Elden Beast wasn't going down without the world order being inclusive of true death once again. You can skip some runes, but not this one, getting this one is part of the game's canonical story, and so is burning the erdtree. It's almost as if this whole thing was meticulously planned. Not just your return to the lands between, but your triumph as well.
I think Marika created Radagon to remove the greater wills influence so she could think for herself. And maybe she got cursed by the last giant to have red hair and she gave that to him too. Like she split her soul in half and radagon is the part with the things she didn't want. Like william and patry in black clover iykyk
Yup, she talks of the days of “ blind faith” being gone, aka, the days the greater will could control her (like Ranni does not want and how the greater will can obviously do, ex shadow bound companions). In order to realize her plans, she had to physically remove the Greater Wills influence. I mean Marika was all about power. She betrayed her people to be the God Vessel of the greater will after all.
@@beniron5807 agreed I had this thought when you hear the quote of her saying she'll analyze the golden order to find the truth but how could she do that if she was being influenced by the greater will? Especially being the vessel for the ER it probably influences her more than anything. Also I think her being so proud she's a god or referring to herself as God isn't because she's a vessel but because she ACTUALLY has free will . And I think Ranni is the foil character she also tries to become free from the GW , and she is the only other being besides marika that can become the god. She has 2 faces and 4 arms like she's two people (in her original concepts she had two voices) mirror marika being 2 people at different times. Marika wanted power and I think she had a savior complex . People say Ranni is selfish but I think her end goal was free will for everybody she had to take it for herself first.
My personal feeling is that Radagon is a mimic- maybe giant blood was required to get close to a clone of a god. It's Radagon we find at the end because Marika successfully escaped the dominance of the Greater Will.
This interpretation really makes me see the parallels between Radagon and Genichiro. Their love of Ashina/the Golden Order and their desire for the current age not to come to an end make them willing to do terrible things to preserve it, even defying the will of their maker Marika/Isshin. Which ultimately leads to further and further corruption of the very thing they claim to love Great video, my friend. Keep up the excellent work
If I am not mistaken in the Japanese version, the title attributed to radagon is not radagon of the golden order but radagon, the golden order as if to say that it was the very personification of the order, an entity manifested solely to give a tangible form to a philosophical concept
It's stated that he is metaphorically *that* in the game. Like, Godfrey was there because he was "good muscle", and he served a purpose. Radagon was more of an elegant Lord, one who's well educated and is interested in creating new knowledge. "I declare it my intent, to search the depths of the golden order...". That was not actually Marika, that sounds awfully a lot like Radagon. He probably wrote the golden order principia, and the 2 incantations (detailed in it) encompassing world order, those being regression and causality, are golden order incantations. From a metaphorical PoV, he *IS* the golden order, and it's very much akin to protestantism in the real world imho.
This video is incredible !! Made me realize a lot so thanks for that. I would have never learn all of this by my own. Also love the references you make. Have a good one and again amazing video
My little insight is that whatever the truth is, Rennala must have known it. If a sculptor found out the truth about Radagon and Marika being the same being, then a wife Radagon had 3 kids with would be certain to know as well. To me, the destruction of all (almost) stakes of Marika in Liurnia is much more a sign not of jealousy, but Rennala being lovelorn
While i don't necessarily agree with the idea that the misbegotten are actually servants of Radagon, the fact that Hewg disagrees with us points towards this being the case. I always wondered what exactly Hewg disagreed on with the Roundtable, and it might be that he shares the beliefs of the other Misbegotten conforming to Radagons fundamentalism instead of Marikas idea of a new order. Perhaps this is the reason why he is imprisoned. That doesn't really explain why he helps us by creating a weapon that could slay the Elden Beast, though maybe he just doesn't have a choice in his current situation.
He creates a weapon to kill a God because he's absolutely terrified of her. Or at least that's the impression I get everytime she's brought up (if memory serves this happens twice, once when we first meet him and question why his here and chained up, saying smithing helps him forget "the sheer terror for *_her_* and later with his prayer to Marika where we learn *_her_* is Marika
I can’t believe how much I DIDNT know about this character. Fascinating. I originally missed this character altogether and when I fought him I was very confused. Love your depth in the video and that you give multiple options for his origin! Taking into account GRRM’s style, a splitting of the consciousness upon attaining godhood/when marika took the power of the Elden ring seems totally in line with the kind of thing he would come up with. Had never even considered the misbegotten being the misbegotten OF Radagon. What a concept!
Does anyone or anything in the game question where Radagon went after the shattering? Marika is considered missing or captured by different sources but I don't remember anyone in game speculating about what happened to Radagon. The tarnished have been given the goal of becoming Elden lord, which implies that the greater will/fingers no longer see Radagon as being fit to be the Elden lord, but why is this? And why do none of the other characters in game question why Radagon needs to be replaced? With how well regarded he was, it's kind of weird that no one is questioning what happened to him or why he's no longer fit to be Elden lord.
Thank you everyone for checking out my video on the Champion!
Let me know your thoughts below
I’m as excited about seeing your videos as an update for the game itself
I'm so curious to hear your take on Radagon! I hope I'll have something to discuss later, but for now thanks for the video!
Off the top of my head, briefly into the video, I must say it'd be extremely cool if you made a separate video covering the "Hero of Morne" origin theory. There's also the theory according to which Radagon was a misbegotten rebel who was brought into the fold by Godfrey and later "rebirthed" by Marika to contain her curses (see the Hewg-Marika relationship). It'd be amazing if you covered these mad ideas in a shorter video, similar to how you did with Radahn vs Morgott and Pidia and Seluvis (a video that, ironically, convinced me they are indeed one and the same haha).
@@Featsofgrace That's genuinely humbling to hear. Thank you so much my friend.
Maybe Radagon's return to Marika is in line with the Law of Regression: he is part of Marika so he is compelled to rejoin her.
Absolutely loved realizing the main theme of Elden Ring also happened to be Radagons very theme. It made my jaw drop realizing he truly was the center of it all.
Opposite for me, the game is trying to pass it off as something as epic when in reality he is a broken husk of a man who at the will of the beast.
@dvdivine1962 but he is at the center of it all. Imagine if he was at full strength. It's the same in every fromsoft game. The final boss is always weakened. Why do you think they do that? Hmm
@@dvdivine1962Gehrman would like a word
@@roachies4242 Tonight, Gehrman joins the Hunt
(althogh to be fair, he lost leg and is rather old by this point. Imagine Gehrman younger, Iudex Gundyr-style)
@@thewheeldeal1678 he has the elden ring inside him, and even displays its power mid fight. He does have his strength.
Radagon is such a mysterious person. I'm personally of the opinion that he is purely created from Marika. It reminds me a lot of how Athena supposedly arose out of Zeus' mind fully formed, so he called her his daughter. With all the parallels between Marika and Athena, I think Radagon is this same idea at play, but the roles reversed. A male divine persona arose out of Marika's mind, possibly to serve her purposes as a tool in addition to being her husband.
Or I wonder if it two identities with one consciousness and when Marika is Marika that's her trying to play a part. The lines are very muddy which I like
he is not
he is a creation of the greater will
if he was from Marika
he wouldn't betray her will
Fallin angels..
I agree because markika was trying to become a being of pure spirit hence her scarseals effect. She put her body and physical attributes in him
If everything came from the One Great... maybe the Greater Will, or Marika herself, had this side effect when she became a god because of just how strange life is in that world?
I think it’s really interesting how Radagon and Marika sort of started out with similar or same views, but as time went on and Marika began to rebel more against the Greater Will Radagon didn’t, which really shows how different they were even though they shared a body. And also how Radagon can be considered an antagonist in the way he protects an order that is clearly crumbling, and how he seals the erdtree with the thorns, and how he may have deceived Gideon into trying to stop us when he tried to gaze into marikas will, but instead found Radagons. All very compelling, great video as always!
Radagon wasn't the one who "deceived" Gideon. It doesn't make any sense, why would Radagon want the world to continuously crumble into nothing. Marika was the one who shattered the literal embodiment of order itself. Wouldn't it make sense for her to be the one to want the world to struggle endlessly?
@@alfalldoot6715think the idea is more Radagon doesn’t want the order to be changed, which if the Tarnished succeeds will happen. It’s less that he’s okay with the current state of the world but more that he believes he can with due time fix the elden ring and bring things back to before the Shattering, a hopeless task
@serafinopampena3097 But Radagon doesn't appear to be making any efforts to try and restore the ring, if anything he might be somewhat brain dead by the time we fight him since his skull is literally caved in and his eyes are cloudy.
@@alfalldoot6715Since Radagon and Marika share the same body by the time it got to that point. It's safe to say he did tried but failed, ending in the broken man we fight.
Also, since Marika was hanging on what seems to be left of the ER, unable to do anything. It's obvious he couldn't anything too, they share the same body after all.
Since it's true that the Golden Order of old could never be restored fully without a change of ruler. Radagon rather has his imperfect Order, as long as it's aligns with his vision.
@@VVabsa Wait I'm confused on what you're trying to say here. Radagon did try to repair the elden ring but that fell through pretty quickly and the Elden Beast imprisoned them both. Wouldn't it make make sense to assume that he put that seal on the second the struggle over the fate of the ring happened since the cross disables them both? So Radagon wouldn't be able to remove the seal whether he wanted to or not.
I've been really looking forward to this video. Radagon is easily my favourite character in Elden Ring. I remember I was enthralled by all the mystery surrounding him since the very first time I even heard of him from Miriel. And no matter how many times I see it, I always get goosebumps when we finally face him, and he raises up his hammer and turns his head towards us
Same - Everytime I see that cinematic of him holding the hammer...and the beat drops. Incredible
@@SmoughTown it truly is
Yes! I think that his duality with Marika makes him one of the most interesting character in all Souls games. In my head, he is both Marika and a separate person, and they can’t be divided and actually love each other!
For the hammer you described in the beginning - I always thought it might be referring to Hewg as the labourer who rebelled. And that him rebelling was what resulted in Marika “cursing” him (seems to be a thing she can do based on what we know of the last fire giant). Of course, Marika had other motives for what happened with Hewg.
Merika does have a strange pension for mischief indeed
I agree with you. Although now that you mention it, maybe what started out as a curse ended up being a straight up alliance? Seems like they were working together the whole time we talk with Hewg....or at least towards the same ends.
I always presumed that Hewg grew up in Leyndell considering how they seemingly treat misbegotten a little better so it wouldn't make sense for his hammer to be in Stormveil.
@@alfalldoot6715given he’s literally chained up and forced to forge weapons for the Tarnished I don’t think a place having better treatment is evidence he lived there, doesn’t seem he’s been treated very well. Also I’m pretty sure Leyndell doesn’t treat non-humans very well at all, at least going off of the Omen.
19:56 On Radagon's importance: if he is created after the war with the giants,Radagon would have had years to accrue military esteem and status. Even if he didn't, if he was appointed to be the leader of the campaign, the head of the host by Marika, that would've been enough (if he were a champion before the War this would've been easier). That he's in the same position as Rennala assumes that their social rank was also similar. By this point Radagon could've made quite a name for himself serving the FO.
SmouGeoff is such a nice guy that he puts a spoiler warning on his 91 minute lore video about Elden Ring, love it dude ❤
Hahaha thanks Benis!
@@SmoughTown Always here to support ur content 🫡😎
A small note on the Golden Order Greatsword, the description at 44:57 may be a mistranslation. The Japanese text is as follows:
そこには、最初の妻レナラから贈られた 大剣の面影があるという. The important part to note is the use of the term 面影 or "omokage". This has two potential meanings, one modern and one archaic.
The modern translations include trace, vestige, or remnant, implying that there are detectable traces of the Moon Greatsword, which would indicate that it was reforged.
The archaic translations include likeness, reminder, or in memory of someone, implying that the Moon Greatsword inspired the design of the Golden Order Greatsword, rather than being reforged into it.
While this doesn't change the thematic point, it does offer some potential insight into the relationship between Radagon and Rennala.
Thanks so much for sharing that! V interesting
I feel the ambiguity of how it's used there helps build up the mystery of Radagon, with the implication that he could still love her
The design of the weapons aren't that similar though, besides the shape of them. The crystals in our sword are there as a representation of frost, and there is no frost in Renallas moon
This is what --back during the height of Bloodbornes popularity -- caused me to lose interest in REALLY diving deep into Fromsoft lore. The deeper you dig for information the more important it becomes that the data you're sifting through is actually translates properly. Just a single word being wrong could have huge implications for other theories.
@jstar3382 thats becuase were not married to rennala but ranni. Radagon would have had the full moon greatsword instead. This is also reflected in the moon sorceries, ranni has frost but rennala doesn't
I have always had the feeling that Marika is full of regret, that she wants out of her situation. The way I interpreted Radagon was that at some point (maybe god ascension?) she became two halves, no doubt in part inspired by yin yang or even farther back than that in the real history. What I think happened is that while her first attempt to break the Elden Ring once in her regret was partially successful, Radagon then became her effective gaoler because that part of her could not resist the influence and instead became a weapon against the Marika half, and a new de facto tool. So Marika's plot is essentially orchestrated for us to remove the greatest threat to her freedom/oblivion/reincarnation (who knows), but of course we may also influence what happens.
I have no idea if this really fits, but I never really had the feeling it was a benevolent relationship in Marika/Radagon. Not like a "ah hah! I am secretly two people, plotting to get ahead!" or "We're a power couple!", it just never rang right to me. Particularly, I think both the shattering as well as her ultimatum to the demogods seem designed to create chaos where randomness can be sown. Order rules, so how else can she hope to achieve anything other than by chaos?
Nice!
Marika's nox association also ties her to the mercury queen concept very firmly
Yep very very true
@@SmoughTown I suspect she is the perfect lord of the Nox, the perfect mimic tear.
It's also interresting to look at Radagon from an alchemical lens further than the rebus - the traditional four stages of Magnum Opus seem to parallel Radagon's journey:
- Starting from Marika, the mercury, the Nigredo, Radagon is formed
- His marriage to Renalla, the lunar queen has mutltiple parallels to Albedo, which is associated with purification (consider the Celestial Dew ritual), the moon, and the feminine
- Citrinitas, the transition from silver to gold corresponds to Radagon's return to the golden order, his marriage to Marika. It is also associated with abandonment of the lunar light.
- Radagon never reach Rubedo stage, and it is what Marika is mocking in the bedchamber speech - they never reach their final union, never become a single being, Radagon never becomes god.
It gets kinda complicated because, I don't think alchemy usually considers two different feminine parts, but Radagon has Marika and Renalla playing this role at different parts of the journey, but it does seem like there's a correspondance. 'hero aspires to be complete' is also a very alchemical phrase.
Good point re the hero aspires to be complete - you are right, that is ultimately the point of alchemy, reconciling all matter. Cheers!
😅
Marika: You're not a God, plus ratio, plus you're a dog, plus I'm shattering the Elden Ring.
1 year later and this shit made me laugh my ass of😂😂
My theory on Radagon’s origin has always centered around Marika’s slaying of the Fell God of the giants. I always speculated that perhaps a fraction or sliver of the Fell God’s essence attached itself to Marika in retaliation, forming a new identity within her. But that’s just my theory, it may be easily disproved.
Yeah I've definitely seen this one before so you're not off to be thinking that.
People have suggested that he wasn't cursed, but rather, he is the curse.
This actually makes a lot of sense. "Perhaps this is the Giants Curse" sounds way more on point in the "giants braids" description with this in mind.
Radagon could also symbolize the doubt (or lack thereof) marika has for the golden order, presumably her loyalty, as it fights you (the next lord)
@@blazindemon115the giants curse was i think the red hair, which is kinda funny because radahn embraced it fully
Great video and great take, Smough! Loved every minute! What I find fascinating about Radagon is that most of the popular theories around him are only apparently contradictory, but can be made to work together, if one only keeps in mind the world’s rules and how the characters would use them.
When it comes to Radagon, there’s a staggering amount of hints and clues scattered all over the place, leading to a lot of compelling and yet divergent theories. I’m striving to find a “unified theory”, with a special eye to the symbolism and echoes surrounding Marika-Radagon, since that’s a writing quirk that Martin and Myiazaki have in common.
First, we should acknowledge that Radagon was Marika from at least his time in Leyndell; otherwise, there wouldn’t have been a secret for the sculptor to discover. As you say in the video, his secretiveness makes one think he was Marika even earlier.
Then we have the D brothers, revlied everywhere for their nature (“two bodies and two minds, but one soul”), except then in the Golden Order. Why? Because they shared their condition with Marika and Radagon? Probably, but I doubt that the wider Golden Order were aware of that.
I think it’s more likely that this condition mirrors the Fundamental Laws of the Order, and thus is held in high regard by the Fundamentalists. The D brothers incarnate the Law of Regression, because the souls, their “meanings”, have been pulled together; despite this, their “meanings” diverge along with their wills, thus embodying the Law of Causality. Of course, since the mind is the bridge between soul and body, their minds couldn’t diverge if they were of the same body.
What I’m getting to is: I think Marika subjected herself to the D brothers’ condition in order to embody the Order she herself was creating. In order to do something like this, she must have joined herself with someone else. Someone who had the requirements to be her “solar king”, but more pliable than Godfrey. I still think the "Rebis" was the objective, just in a specifically "elden-ringian" way, rather than a generic "alchemy works like this and so Elden Ring works like thus".
This is where the “Artificial Lord theory” and the “Rebel Lord theory” converge, according to my “unified theory”.
I can’t link it here, but there’s a very interesting series of R*ddit posts by a deleted user, detailing a lot of the circumstantial evidence pointing Radagon to Limgrave and in particular to the Siege of Castle Morne. I’ve built upon that basis to conclude that Radagon was probably born a lowly labourer in ancient Stormveil, where he led a rebellion in the name of his people. This people would later be massacred by his old masters, or by Godfrey/Hoarah Loux (difficult to say for sure), upon which Radagon shed his old hammer and built himself a huge grafted sword (grafting upon a sword is also what he later did with Rennala’s wedding sword). Then Godfrey cast down the old Limgrave and only Radagon and his men refused to bow till the end, a la Asterix.
Godfrey must have been so impressed by this champion, that he took him in. Since Radagon was already a rebel before his clan was extinguished, his defiance wasn’t founded on the desire for freedom, but on his envy towards those in higher places than him.
With this in mind, it’s easy to see why Radagon bought into Marika’s dream in the end. Radahn mentions that he’s “born a Champion’s cub”, implying Radagon to be a lesser lion than Godfrey, but still a lion. He’s also chock-full of sun and solar-king symbolism, which is itself symbolically linked to lions.
Something must have happened between Marika and Radagon, though, because they must have fused their souls prior to the First Liurnian War, the first public appearance of “modern” Radagon. Maybe it was because Radagon was originally a leonine misbegotten, descended from giants and linked to the Crucible of old, the dynamic half to Marika’s static foundations. Radagon was simply the perfect receptacle for what Marika needed in her order, but didn’t want on herself, like the so-called curse of the giants.
What could Radagon ask in return? To be reborn, finally perfect. Maybe Radagon was a misbegotten still when Rennala fell in love with him, and the fusion of golden amber and glintstone made him a rebirthed man. But I think Marika had all the means and knowledge to do it herself, before unleashing him upon Liurnia, since I also think the amber egg is integral to this process, acting as a crucible where to add silver and sulphur, in order to create the Rebis (guess who's who in this analogy), thus making it both Radagon's shed cocoon and egg to plant in Rennala's nest (like a cuckoo). This would also explain the Crusader… he must have been an old lieutenant of his, from before his rebirth, and why Hugh was contacted by Marika: he used to be Radagon’s blacksmith.
Sadly, Radagon never felt perfect, nor fully belonging to the Golden Order. He always felt apart and strove to fit in with a feverish obsession that only a convert could have. That’s why he, like Marika, needed to better understand the Golden Order, because he wanted to see that he was essential to his workings. Marika’s disillusionment and manipulatory treatment of him surely didn’t help him in this regard.
I also think that the First Liurnian War was a “test run”, to check whether Radagon was a fit successor and whether he was truly so dedicated to the Order. It is said that “his glory burned red like his hair” in that war, implying to me that this is the first time he made a name for himself.
I think Rennala was undergoing the same process on the other side, rising as a superior champion for the Academy, thanks to her Full Moon powers. If she was originally a champion, she must have fought in a war when she wasn’t queen already. The First Liurnian War is the only possible option. That’s why everyone in the Academy was so eager to put her on the throne: she had just found out a new source of magic power that had saved them from the Erdtree’s invasion, despite Radagon’s ferocious efforts to defeat them. Rennala was a trump card that Marika didn’t expect, and thus she laid in motion the events that led to the second war. That’s why Radagon was put at the head of that second army, and not Godfrey.
Then the theory continues pretty much as you’ve stated in your video (which is excellent, by the way!).
I hope someone reads this comment and asks questions. Feel free to poke holes in it, of course! Of course, all of this is a bit clunky at times, but it's a work in progress and I feel that I'm onto something that could unlock the Radagon conundrum (or a close approximation to that, since the mystery will never fully go away in any case).
Radagon's theme is pure epic. This my favorite battle theme in the whole game.
agreed - any excuse to play that theme haha
I wish he had a second phase, and Elden Beast was just ceremonial.
If there's an interesting character with lore to supplant that, it's Radagon, not the Elden Beast.
@@samf.s.7731Elden Beast was a sour note on an amazing S tier boss fight that Radagon is
@@Christmas_JohanWholeheartedly agree 👍
Can't thank you enough for the consistency in the quality of your content. In my opinion, your Elden Ring videos are the best you can find out there and the extra content is simply top notch as well. I will watch this with a smile brother!
YOOOO! Super generous, thank you so much my friend. Means the world to me and thank you so much for the support. Much love
I think that an aspect of the Marika-Radagon situation can be made more parsimonious if we take into account the references to Christian religions found in the Golden Order and Leyndell society. While there are obvious ones like crucifiction and thorny crowns, we should also consider separate personalities composing one sole divine being. This is speculation, but it may be the case the Marika incarnated an aspect of herself into a human of the Northerner race, a reference to Jesus in Christian religions. We know that Marika has, shall we say, "living contingency plans". She deprived the Tarnished of Grace with the intention of having them come back. It would then be unsurprising if she created a male aspect of herself to use whenever appropriate. Then, when Marika deemed it appropriate she chose to physically fuse with Radagon to become the perfect complete Rebis. In this manner, Radagon can be of partial Giant descent (at least his physical body), and all of the demigod children can still be of Marika (as stated by Enia). This would also explain how Radagon "came out of nowhere". Marika would have metaphorically had him in her pocket, ready to use him when the time was right.
Side note: what if Malenia and Miquella were born afflicted because they were born after Marikadagon removed the Great Rune of unborn demigods from the Elden Ring?
Agreed.
He doesn't give me Jesus vibes though, he's more like a Martin Luther -King-, the speech he gave at the -church of pilgrimage- minor erdtree church (Of course, Melina said that it was Marika's words but it really wasn't, he literally calls the people listening "comrades") and its content shows that he was hellbent on reformation (No pun intended).
He genuinely had a "protestant" moment. I think Marika herself is Jesus, and Radagon's creation and evolution mirrors stages Christianity went through.
I mean, his Golden Order's ways have literally been dubbed "fundamentalism". It can't hit us any harder on the head than that 🤣👌
Agreed, I also do think that Radagon and Marika were eventually two seperate bodies, with one soul split between them. I can understand how Morgott kept his "veiled monarch" identity up for a long while, but I doubt Marika/Radagon would have been able to keep their secret standing to most people's eyes for that long. Although, admittedly this does clash with the alchemistic allegories, but perhaps those come in because Radagon/Marika are able to switch look (and supposedly personality) while using the same body (they do that before fighting us so we can assume they could do that anytime). This also begs the question, how many characters knew? Did Godfrey, Godwyn, Rennala and her children know?
This Elden Ring lore analysis is the best content on games that ever existed. Thank you and other creators who dedicate to this craft.
You humble me - thank you so much for the support and the really kind words.
I don’t think I’ve seen any of these videos that was not excellent, they’re so good and it’s clear you put a lot of thought and time into them. Keep up the good work, and don’t you dare go hollow
Cheers my friend, kind words like yours keep me going. I will do, more to come soon
Ive been slowly digesting this one and just want to say that I truly appreciate how humble you are in your conclusions. A lot of content creators seem to be more concerned with being right than about honestly engaging the topic that by design leaves a lot open to interpretation. Keep up the amazing work!
I appreciate that my friend, really pleased that you like my approach! Thank you and I will do!
A theory I have is that Marika had full control over Radagon during the Liurnian War, but he became more and more independant as Marika's faith withered. Thus, Radagon's marriage to Marika was for control over the body of a god. I also believe there's a chance that Rennala knew about Maragon after they wed.
Maragon😂 that’s good.
Possibly also due to distance and time.
This is incredible, I was just immersed in many of these item descriptions as i was playing earlier, and almost simultaneously, Smough has just wrapped up a beautiful lore dump to help me weigh my thoughts. You got me hooked now.
That's so awesome to hear! Thank you
Very good analysis! Something is missing though - when you defeat Radagon as a boss, the Elden Beast quite literally transforms him into the Sacred Relic Sword - he becomes a weapon that also holds his characteristic T-pose. I think this might be a very subtle hint to why he was created.
Yeah. It's also why I think Marika didn't create him, precisely. The thing that made them both what they are is likely the one holding them like a weapon, no?
Not to say the Elden Beast literally made them from scratch, though. Marika clearly came from somewhere, and Radagon came from there, too. If he didn't,he wouldn't have" joined the houses of the Erdtree and Caria" in the first place.
@@alyseleem2692 Oh I think the language of the marriage is that he "conjoined" the houses of the Erdtree and Caria. He was already an Erdtree Champion by then."
But yeah it's questionable if Marika created him or whether it was the Elden Beast or Elden Ring that made him when Marika first became disillusioned with the Greater Will.
A very unconfirmed but little observation I have is that Radagon holds the personality that Marika had following the war with the Giants, only after which Marika is quoted saying that Erdtree society should round out their faith with intelligence. It's like Marika's personality split during the Godskin uprising that probably occurred after the Giant war, and Radagon was assembled from Marika's memories from that time, which might be why he has giants red hair. Perhaps the Elden Ring within Marika carved him from her memories as a self preservation mechanism when Marika first began doubting the Greater Will and the Elden Ring?
@@monsieurdorgat6864 Yeah, but the thing is:
Regardless of his actual origin, Radagon being a " champion" is not enough to join the houses. In other words, at least officially speaking, he was already recognised as a royal in public. We may know that " Radagon is Marika", but we don't know who he was to the masses at the time, or whether it was, in fact, his true origin.
I believe Radagon and Marika are too much like opposites to have ever been truly the same person, or even a singular entity, unless whatever they grew out of was a third party that had aspects of both. Marika is ruthless, intelligent, uncompromising, conniving and cruel. She massacred the Giants. She threw out her own sons and later, her husband because " civilisation had advanced". The only person I could think she mightve loved in some way is Godwyn, and even that is undercut by the idea she mightve had a hand in his assassination. She didn't " doubt" the Golden Order; she MADE the Golden Order. She might’ve thought it was worth renovating, but it wasn't a question of faith. She made it. She broke it.
I sincerely doubt she made that quote,too. Marika is a god; she wouldn't call people " comrades",or discuss matters of faith to people who believe in her. How do you doubt a religion which is about yourself?!
Radagon, on the other hand...
Radagon is attached to the Golden Order. And that is incredibly strange,because he I attached to it DESPITE Marika, even though the founding principle of the Golden Order is that Marika is the one true god, a principle he breaks simply by existing. He's a father who loves his children( or at least, Miquella. No indication he hated the rest; they became demigods, and Radahn and Rykard both used his hair as heraldry,which says something) and was willing to cease aggression with Rennala. In the words of Miriel, he believed that " all things can be conjoined". At least, when it involved him and his crush, that is. But more importantly, he sought...completeness?!
A possible idea was that he, and possibly Marika herself, did believe in the Golden Order once, in the sense of creating a world without Death or ( supposedly) suffering. To be fair,some people think of that as a prophetic,perfect world, especially in a religious context. That said, it failed miserably, and one of them can't let go of it.
The best thing I could come up was that Radagon didn't want the Shattering to happen specifically because he didn't want their children to get killed. Marika,however, illustrated her point of view on that quite clearly.
" Hear me, demigods. My children beloved. Make of thyselves that which ye desire; be it a Lord, be it a God. But should ye fail to become ought at all...
Ye will be forsaken.
Amounting only to sacrifices. "
Radagon is one of the most interesting and confusing to understand character but this helps me understand his character. Great Radagon lore video Smough have a good day
Agreed my friend, thanks so much. Hope you have a great day too
@@SmoughTown you’re welcome, thanks
My theory is that Marika had split herself into two, her original self and the parts of her that she deemed “negative” as to give herself more freedom. Divesting herself of her devotion to the golden order as I think it’s said in the lore that she begins to lose faith in the golden order and the greater will, along with the red hair that she was cursed with by the last fire giant. Radagon is still a part of Marika but has yet to “become her” as she sends him away to marry Rannala. But when Marika sends Godfrey away, it makes sense that she would need to bring Radagon back to herself as she plans to destroy the Elden Ring. Being able to control Radagon to a certain extent to keep him from preventing her from shattering it. They become one again when he returns to her and becomes second elden lord, which could be seen as a metaphorical marriage, the union of two beings becoming one again. Not sure if any of this makes sense I just always saw Radagon as being split from Marika for a time before he comes back and they join together once again.
The reveal of them being the same entity was crazy to me. I never picked up on it the hints if any that were dropped. I still love the Radogan fight.
Actually in one of Melina's 'whispers of the Queen Marika', she mentions that she will wage war and brandish the elden ring.
I believe this is her referring to go to war against Caria as Radagon.
It always made sense to me that Radagon was created from Marika, an offshoot of her, while she was at the hight of her belief in the Golden Order. She sends him out with a mission, be it to learn, create, improve the GO, or remove the Carian RF, doesn't matter.
Somehow, I always sensed an implication of this as "only when you're successful, will you merge back with Marika". Radagon's rune, and his whole characterisation is of a lattice support for what's already there.
So when they marry, they "become one" but their personalities haven't merged back together yet because time has created a dissonance between them: Radagon's belief in the GO remains strong while Marika isn't only rife with doubts but has actively started investigating the flaws, dissilusioned.
If you want an on the nose metaphor, feels like when you're learning about science for the first time, after a lifetime of religious upbringing. One part of you wants to continue believing in God, while the other sees all the flaws.
This direction of interpretation came intuitively to me as well, after stewing over enough lore. You've put it into well words, I think.
There ought to be an inception point for Radagon's interactions with Marika, prior to the first known record of his appearance. And it makes sense to me, knowing how Marika ruled & treated those close to her, to assume she'd have been similarly ruthless even to Radagon when the seeds were originally sown. Just how much individuality Radagon was privileged to have may always remain a mystery, but it does feel like the answer is almost staring us in the face, even when one can't exactly point to it.
I like your use of plant themes here, Radagon being an "offshoot" and his rune being a lattice, like one that would support young plants. It fits with Marika's plant-based dynasty, what with her offspring grafting others and naming their own experiments "Grafted Scions"
Because science and religion are completely incompatible, as stated by some random ass TH-cam comment. Issac Newton and like a 1000 years of scholarship is just gone, I guess.
@@alfalldoot6715 personally I disagree that the fundamentals of religion are incompatible with science. Science merely reveals truth. What we know of science helps to inform what we can and can not trust of our own history. Furthermore, if you expand upon the tenets of religious doctrine, you get something akin to philosophy. And on that matter I would argue its just as critical to Human society as science or religion, yet also dependent upon the marriage of the two
@NerdOracle I agree with you. The greatest minds of the Renaissance were also religious scholars. Also philosophy and theology went hand in hand with each other until like the Enlightenment
Take a shot every time Smough says “and thus” 😂 amazing content as always man
🤣 and also 'indeed'! hahah thank you my friend!
Alcohol poisoning
QUESTION: If Radagon was always one with Marika, that means Marika's body was in Liurnia during Radagon's entire marriage to Rennala. How could the queen be absent from Leyndell for all that time? Wouldn't Godfrey and everyone notice that she was missing? Thanks for another amazing video!!
They can literally teleport
We are talking about a literal godess whose body is the vessel for the code of principles that dictate reality, so it's best not to assume the same restrictions of an ordinary person apply
Yeah I thought they just used the sites of grace for fast travel, also, someone else could have taken her likeness. Rennala's entire phase 2 is a spell made by Ranni, and it's a 1:1 recreation of her.
There's also the mimic veil which belonged to Queen Marika, and that can certainly create a great camouflage
😂
I think even though Radagon was created from Marika by the Greater will, I think they can still split from each others physical bodies, and also regress and fuse back together, otherwise it doesnt make sense when Marika says to Radagon, thou are yet to become me, thou are yet to become a god, along with the law of regression etc.
Here we go boys. My brain is ready!
😂😂😂
I love the enthusiasm! It’s so damn cool to me how souls game just captivate people for years after. It’s amazing, their legacy. It’s so impressive to me and it rarely happens with other games, but most every fromsoft game gets analyzed for years after. I mean, FF XVIj ust came out, well recently, and it was hotly anticipated. But now almost 2 months later, no one is talking about it this much, like this game.
Also! One more thing: the community around these games just feels way more collaborative and positive. Everyone is working together to solve these mysteries together. Meanwhile over on the subreddit for XVI I experienced some of THE worst cruelty and general vileness, full of smug and yeah, just point blank mean assholes. They didn’t want to participate in a friendly community, no, they sought to tear down others who expressed their critical views on the game, I was subjected to that myself. Anyway, I’m done bitchin, and I love fromsoft. Be well, all.
*After the Video* "My brain was not ready."
I never noticed till this video that Hewg and Gideon actually stand opposite to each other in the Round Table Hold. One burdened by knowing the truth of Queen Marika and honoring her wishes. The other blind to the truth until there is no other option to stop your Tarnished from reaching the Elden Ring. In a similar line of thinking It can be seen as an ironic twist that Radagon who did not want the Tarnished to reach the Elden Ring relies on a Tarnished to stop anyone from approaching. While Marika relied on a Misbegotten, people who are persecuted and outcast by the Golden Order, to help the Tarnish who are similarly looked down upon by believers and members of the Golden Order.
Marika did the equivalent of ripping up the constitution, and yet she's the one who wants order to return, alright, I guess.
Great video as always, but the sentence at 28:52 suggests to me that not Marika and Radagon are the Rebis (or at least not the only one), but that their son Miquella might be. After all he seems to have both a male and female form.
Agreed... Ranni might have her own shadow, but Miquella is the closest thing to "Radika".
@@samf.s.7731 Radika is actually a common name for Indian hindu girls.
regarding their duality, its also quite interestingg that the beast during the P2 transition separates radagon from marika. You can ,after the fight, leave and redeem the remembrance and use the sword that is 'the body of a god' ,yet marikas cadavar is still right there. FS arent the type of devs to make such decisions without contextual reasons, so i do believe if they can be separated, they once were probably separate to begin with. Just my 2 cents.
I actually love that we are still debating this, that everyone has a theory, and they propose great arguments for why they think it's true.
A genuinely fascinating "mystery".
I think like the video by SmoughTown, that Radagon wasnt separate from the beginning, he was created when the Greater Will ascended Marika to Godhood, to become a god they needed a Rebus body in order to host the elden ring/elden beast, which is why their body is now like clay.
I do think however they are able to separate from each other after Radagon was created, I dont think they are stuck with one physical body all the time that can transform, because that limitation would make reproducing and having twin children difficult, unless Marika simply became pregnant asexually. Also if they always had to switch form with one body, it would be hard to convince people that they are married when they can never be seen at the same time together.
So I think after Radagon left Renala, he came back to Marika, and probably some time after they had Miquella and Malenia, and when their goals started to separate, Radagon being pro golden order and Marika starting to reject the order, I think she "forced" him somehow to merge back with her body. I think her comment that he is yet to become her, and to become a god, is a reference to this coming act of regression.
@@IndoManiac90 i agree that they were separate during the events laid out in the game, why would marika have 'spoken echoes' in the bed chamber when she calls him a 'dog' (hound) if radagon is a part of her, she's talking to him ,most likely face to face. Also Malenia has a belly button, implying she was birthed normally, so they must've copulated.
Smough, you’re gonna have to start billing us for all this free publicity!
Great video, as always.
Hahaha great to see you here buddy! Your work is astonishing dude and I really appreciate all the work you've done for the community. Thank you my friend
If Radagon was a "simple laborer" then he couldn't have bound the Royal Houses together through marriage. You're 100% right.
Yeh agree, doesn't make sense to me - I just thought it best to cover all possible theories!
@@SmoughTown Couldn't agree more.
The theories about him being a curse, or a mimic tear, or as tarnished archeologist put it "an insurance policy", and some people have described him as a "science project"... are fascinating!
It's not that they're incorrect, but the opposite, they're all entirely possible.
@@SmoughTown Yes,but that leaves the question of Radagon's public identity.
We understand that, if Radagon is Marika, then he bound the royal houses of the Erdtree and Caria because of literally being the head of the former. But as we know, that is a secret. As such, there'd have to be a public origin story for Radagon that explains his relation to the royal house of the Erdtree. In fact, if the theory that he'd always been Marika was incorrect, this might be his true origin story, but in both cases:
We need to figure out that relation, whether it is false or not, because it would shed more light on Radagon's early years. He was publicly acknowledged as a royal; the question is why?
The Golden order is a religion. Viewed through that lense Radagon is the Golden Order’s appeal to the commoner. The infatuation of royals with this religion is obvious but this tilt to the avg joe begins with Radagon and matures with Miquella. It shows the path that anyone can walk to become whole or godlike. His Soreseal and Scarseal only scale strength that’s his “original” form. He learned sorcery then incantations to become whole. It makes sense to create a narrative to keep the small folk from rebelling. Gostoc is a living example of the disdain for royalty.
Good work, that was the best and most interesting video so far. Radagon is so central to everything that happens in the game, it was good to get a deep dive on him.
Cheers todd, glad you enjoyed it!
Radagon is probably my favorite final boss in souls. His and marika's relationship and shifting ideals really are the root of so much of the major events that happen after the defeat of the fire giants. Its also fascinating that marika seems to have been counting on godfrey and/or the tarnished challenging him since before they were married.
I'm in the camp of Radagon and Marika being separate people originally, but Marika grafted Radagon to herself. The concept of grafting is so prevalent in Elden Ring's story that I can't see it not used in this plot point of two characters being one person. As to why, I think it was so Marika could gain some kind of ability or to trigger some kind of change to spite the Greater Will.
"Grafting is so prevalent in Elden Ring's story"
>Is used by one boss
@@alfalldoot6715 Godfrey in-a-sense grafted Serosh, onto his back.
Godrick and Godfreoy copied from him.
@@alfalldoot6715dude it’s used by Godfrey to grant him serosh’s kingly nature, and it is depicted as being how the Erdtree came to be on the stone slab at it’s base, grafting is a major theme of the game not just a one off boss detail
@@rohanthomas6629 Was there ever a item or description that implied that serosh was a product of grafting.
@@Nowherehere-moved Spiritually, yes. Implications such as Ranni, Malenia being of the Rot God, Rykard and the Serpent, The Erdtree and the Elden Ring etc. This is just another example of cases.
Good video. It’s also interesting to think about Marika and Radagon’s children, Miquella and Malenia, reflect your point of one being the passive matter and the other the active agent(?). That’s all without mentioning how one looks blonde and the other a red head, among other things.
Gave me a lot more to think about
Yeah. I had this crazy idea that the two pf them used to be the same.
Think about it. Radagon was a member of the House of the Erdtree, joining it to Caria through marrying Rennala, but he isn't mentioned as a demigod son of Marika's. He despised his red locks, which indicate a curse of the Fell God, at least in the case of the Fire Giants....
Like Malenia hated her Rot.
Why was Radagon so loyal to the Golden Order? Why else,if he didn't have a curse which he thought the Order would " free" him from?
Turning Marika into a Rebis obviously went wrong, since Malenia and Miquella (and maybe Melina) were born afflicted. I'd also be interested into the story behind the fingerslayer blade. It looks like the sword that Radagon gets turned into during the Elden Beast bossfight, just a bit unhealthier.
I wouldn't be surprised if a Rebis is just fundamentally flawed as a concept and impossible to "get right." It's a walking talking paradox. Anything born of it would likewise be profoundly flawed.
The Marika/Radagon mystery at the core of Elden Ring is fascinating to me. Two of the most influential and prominent figures being shrouded in such mystery was such a good narrative and design choice!
I wonder if perhaps Radagon is a manifestation of some sort of curse bestowed upon Marika once she had the fire giants put to the sword. Like a revenge curse that forced her to split off into another person's cursed with the red hair of the beings she had exterminated.
I’ve observed that each Main Boss, the ones with Great Runes, we fight represents one of the Seven Deadly Sins… maybe there is a hidden meaning to that:
- Radahn: Wrath (after being rotten away).
- Rennala: Sloth
- Rykard: Gluttony
- Malenia: Pride
- Godrick: Greed (becoming more powerful with grafting)
- Mohg: Lust
- Morgott: Envy (of his siblings for not being Omen)
Mohg isn’t lustfull Miquella manipulated him
@@Tusitustar Mohg lusts for blood (The Formless Mother)
@@joaquimeugeniolima lust literally means strong sexual desire, and everyone knows mohg is about blood
Smough, this may genuinely be your best video to date. And that says A LOT since you always maintain such amazing quality with each video. I had no idea Radagon was such a deep character, and now I am starting to formulate my own theories with this in mind.
Thank you so much Geoff!!!
Really appreciate that - glad you enjoyed! So humbling to hear you think it's my fave to date! Much love
Perfect timing! Radagon is the most intriguing and my favorite character ❤
Same, I had a blast working on this one!
This lore video might be one of new favorites.
Too often I have them on in the background and nod away to the same theories being said over and over, but This video had a lot of new thoughts and revelations. Well done to all involved.
That’s awesome to hear - thank you so much. Really pleased you enjoyed this one
As far as Radagon's appearance. I thought that to be a potential curse on Marika from the Fell God. Given the clear hatred for the Fire Giants in her dialogue. Perhaps in a final act of spite, due to the lost of it's followers. The Fell God sought to humble Marika with an eternal reminder of them.
So, so excited for this one!
Can't wait to hear your takes on Mr. Radagon of the Golden Order.
My theory is that Radagon is Marika's congenital twin(a red haired twin) that she absorbed while they were growing in their mother's womb. This would make Marika the Eternal a being that isn't flawless, but instead an Alloyed gold, or a being that is made of two parts(like EVERYTHING in this game). She then gave life and disembodied herself from her unborn twin(whom therefore possessed the great rune of the unborn) when the need arose to create a champion to serve her against Caria. This would explain why they are the same person yet end up opposing one another, how they are the same person yet Marika is clearly framed as above him (thou are yet to become me, yet to become a God, let us shatter together, mine other self) and why the Radagon-Marika duality is identified by Goldmask as the flaw of the golden order. That is, the order based on Marika being the one true god, is flawed, as Marika is not one, but two within one, and Marika is not flawless, as her two halves grow in conflict with each other. It fits too well with the game's themes of duality, of fractured parts of a whole, the motif of twins so present throughout, and the odd, contradictory dynamic between Radagon and Marika, that is two people that are at the same time one, yet are somehow different.
This! I was looking for this! I thought the same, but was unable to put it into words( and did not think about her absorbing a fetus befor birth)! Thanks! That would make sense since i cannot see how she could have left to liurnia as radagon without it being a big event! I mean the queen AND GOD would be gone. This makes so much more sense.
I always listen to your videos while taking a long walks into nearby forests with my dog. Such an escape from reality, makes me forget about all the sad things.
Last words about two siblings who protect the weak using their strenghts made me cry. Thank you for this amazing video as usual.
Thank you so much for sharing that with me, that means the world. Im glad you find the content meaningful, appreciate your support.
Geoff is my go-to loremaster for all thing From. Bucket list goal is to have a pint with you and play some Elden Ring. You're dope
You humble me my friend
I am so glad I found this channel. I'm just now getting into Elden Ring, and seeing all of these hour+ long video gets me very excited.
Super glad to have you here! Thanks so much for the support and I hope you enjoy!
90 minute Elden Ring lore video? Wonderful.
Spectacular work, Smough!! I love how you were able to clarify the characterization of Radagon. I always found it odd that he had no voice lines in the cutscene or the boss battle, so it felt like something was missing. The brief glimpses of him from Miriel and the Fundamentalist incantations really built up this mysterious figure. It has to be true that it was Radagon's will that Gideon glimpsed instead of Marika's, but I never would have considered it! That contradiction in Marika's plans always put me into the camp of Marika being a mastermind, a schemer, and privy to the Night of the Black Knives.
I have to listen to that again. Wow. Very insightful. I've always been curious about Radagons motivations. Thank you thank you for sharing your insight. Food for thought, what if instead of Marika being a part of the Night of the Black Knives that plot role was Radagon? Anyways. Great video. I'm a sucker for Radahn. But an overview would be really cool with all the dlc speculation about.
Thanks so much as always for being here! Really glad you enjoyed it; that's a great shout re the black knives, I hadnt considered that. Radahn seems to be asked for a fair bit...might be his time!
Ah yes radagon of the Golden Order... This is definitely a good evaluation on how he came to be in these lands. Once again my props to you my fellow I hope you continue the pursue of knowledge
Always appreciate you being here Gideon
With Marikas connection to the Numen and Nox I like the idea that he was an attempt by them to create a Lord, which explains how he appeared so suddenly in the world
I really love and appreciate the fact that you are so very upfront with the content creators who influence your work ❤
Appreciate that my friend
I personally believe he was his own person and agreed to become one with Marika in order to fulfill one of the two fundamental laws, regression.
Interesting thought, however, the main question about Radagon persists; where did he come from? What royal lineage did he arise from?
@@jasN86 unclear, but it is hinted that his red hair is due to a giant lineage, which is further evidenced by the sheer size of his son, Radahn
You mean Regression?
@@allthe1 sorry my bad
@@GasDude1011 All good, jus makin sure
Seems like Marika suffers from multiple personality disorder, but not like us she can be 2 separate entities at the same time that contradict each other... Thank you smoughtown for providing us so much more 👍
My pleasure my friend
Really happy to see a new lore video toady! You and Vaati are the best lore channels for Elden Ring. 👍
Wow, much appreciated to be put next to the GOAT! Thank you so much
this is the first I've seen of a big creator also noticing the radagon-- brick hammer guy connections as well, great video
Appreciate that - thanks so much
Aaand SmoughTown does it again
Usually I pick out details and theories I disagree or find incoherent or point out spaces to further the philosophical discourse on ER. Not this one. This truly was one of the most complete, well structured and significant works on the subject of Radagon.
Ten outta ten
Hell yeah! Thank you so much, super pleased with that review!
@@SmoughTown for clarification, it's not that I think a content is good when I 100% agree with it. In fact this one is especially good right because it also made me change my mind on a few details. Kudos
9:31 I have to say I have insane respect for how willing you are to change your conclusions. I think that’s why you and TA are my favorites (no offense to anyone else, everyone keep making content please) because you look at the pieces and connect dots, but you let the evidence change your opinion or conclusion. You seem very unbiased as an investigator.
Cheers bud - I think i just have to sometimes admit i was wrong, especially when I get other people's perspective on the lore and they just look at it in a way I would never have considered.
Honored to be there next to TA
So excited for this one! Again thank you so much for all the hard work you put into each and every one of these lore videos! The attention to detail and quality of your productions have just gotten better as time goes on. You quickly became my favourite Elden Ring content creator, lore or otherwise, because of this. I hope you can continue having a passion for ER lore or any FromSoft game lore, because you are a gem in our community making some of the best content out there! 💎 🥰
Thanks so much Kitsune! That means the world to me, I really love this game and its lore and kind words like this keep me going.
No plans to stop yet!
@@SmoughTown Glad to hear you have no plans on stopping as of yet! Your videos are all fantastic, I just couldn't stop watching them once I started.. I must have watched them all at least twice in order, and a few of them probably 3 or 4 times, they're just that good! Also your Bloodborne lore video on The Choir was an amazing watch, even though I've never actually played the game before, I find the lore so fascinating and had to dive into the rest of it myself so that I could rewatch that video with a new understanding. I wish you nothing but the best, and hope that your channel continues to grow as quickly as possible! I can't think of a single content creator who deserves a larger audience more! Keep up the amazing work! 🙏🥰
It's Saturday, I have nothing to do, aside from chores, guess it's time to rewatch/listen to some awesome content again! The best part of your lore videos is they are so high-quality that you can just listen over and over!
More Lore, I'm at work, and it's SmoughTown. What a wonderful day.
Radagon is one of the best characters in the game and he shows up once. He preserves the golden order preventing any further slippage of the golden order. And he has subdued Marika his other half. I wish I could have seen a fight between him and Godfrey in their prime.
Thanks my friend, hope you enjoy.
Couldn't agree more, his reveal at the end of the game will always live with me.
Shows up once, yeah: but as the final boss.
@@KitsuneShapeShifter that's what I mean. He's so bad ass he shows up once and rocks you're ass with a hammer.
@@young5395 Yeah! And he's one of the most memorable Elden Ring character designs too
I just sat down with food. Perfect timing! Can't wait to hear your analysis of my favorite character's lore.
Hope you enjoyed it! and the food!
@@SmoughTown It was so good! The video and the food. Haha. I ended up feeling really sad for him after you described him as trying to find out who/what he is. He is such a tragic hero, and I wish there was an ending where we could keep him alive and rebuild the Order he tirelessly strove to defend. He is the most interesting and complex character in the lore, and I want to see From's notes on this stuff so badly. Thank you again for the amazing coverage!
@@pandamygdala Lovely stuff! I agree, there is far more tragedy in Marika and Radagon's story than many people give credit for
Loved the video and it resonates with some of my own head cannon greatly.
I am convinced Radagon and Marika are somehow twins sharing one body or of an origin akin to D.
I cant make the tinfoil stretch well enough to explain everything but the themes of twins, hermaphrodites and two halves of a whole fits far too well.
In a way that Melania and Miquella should have been one combined empyrean, their separation opened room for outside influence and their current afflictions.
I don't know if it's a requirement for all empyreans to be this dual entity but it raises questions over who else could be the counterpart for them and lore implications of such
Miquella & St Trina or Melania, Radagon and Marika, Rani & ???, Gloam eyed queen & ???
Bless you smough. Was super hyped when you announced a Radagon vid.
I firmly believe Radagon was originally his own person. His backstory being completely up for interpretation is something I believe to be intentional should the upcoming DLC reveal some more information about him through Miquella's words (as they both had a close bond as stated by the fundamentalist incantations they created). We will hopefully get an answer then.
He most likely was an individual whose talent just happened to be his incredible charisma and he was otherwise low-born (as implied somewhat by Miriel), and for some reason (perhaps due to his lowly birth-right) attained a strong desire to attain perfection. He learned sorceries from the best magic user and later took the first opportunity to take Marika's side--even if it left his ex-wife heart-broken. As long as he could acquire everything, he would sacrifice anything, even himself to become that perfect being, which is why he so easily became the "Leal dog of the Golden Order". He upheld the ideals of the Golden Order because it would lead to his ultimate goal--perfection... attaining everything for himself.
Radagon might have married Rennala as a last resort to prevent himself from failing where Godfrey succeeded in eliminating key threats to the Erdtree. By creating powerful children through Radahn, Ranni and Rykard and rendering Rennala docile, Radagon probably used that to bolster his reputation to gain favor with the Greater Will so that they would accept him as a potential replacement for Marika. That is why I believe the Greater Will would have accepted Radagon as consort for Marika. But he is evidentially not cold-blooded since he showed some care for Rennala by leaving her a Great Rune and even leaving his pet to safe-guard her.
As for why he hated his hair? This is more evidence that he upheld the values of the Greater Will, and when he took Marika's body, we see him depicted with blond hair right before his boss fight and during the 2019 trailer and the intro cutscene... He hated the giant blood that was within him--assuming of course he was born a descendant of giants. He probably even associated himself with Omen and Albinaurics--having impure blood... hence why he sought after the perfect vessel to cleanse himself... Marika, the Eternal.
It's even more messed up because we are led to assume he only had a good relationship with Miquella--his only child that had blond hair instead of red... I think when Miquella and Malenia were conceived, this is when Radagon began assimilating with Marika. Keep in mind it is only Radagon's children who ended up with red hair... None of the children Marika has with Godfrey had any red hair. Only Golden and Gray... and whatever hair Mohg has lol.
And of course, we can all agree Melina is the last child of Marika and Radagon, conceived during the Shattering.
Edit: Also, I would like to point out that Marika's cruelty towards the Giants may not have been because she personally had a vendetta against them, but because the Greater Will deemed them as a threat and this was quite early on in Marika's rule. She would have been devoted to the Greater Will, and acted as their voice willingly. words of Marika that take place later in the timeline indicate some hesitation or outright resentment towards the Greater Will, as they ended up revealing their true colors after subjugating the Lands Between in its entirety and robbed the Grace from Godfrey and the Tarnished. Marika would've realized she was tricked and thus began plotting against the Greater Will... and at the same time, the Greater Will used Radagon as their instrument to put her in check once she attempted to destroy the Elden Ring.
@smoughtown super happy you put your lore on podcast! I really hope you keep it up
Reminds me of a high level D&D trick.
Make a Simulacrum. You can use other things, but a Simulacrum works best, since it has your mind. And goals at time of creation.
True Polymorph the Simulacrum. It takes on the stats of whatever, but keeps the mind and alignment. The True Polymorph has to be of the creature it’s cast ons level or CR or lower. Gender bending is an option. And you have to have seen the type of creature you turn it into before. It is permanent if it lasts a certain amount of time. Expires on death though. (Some say this pops you into your old form. Some say you just die.)
Then you have Clone. Clone builds a backup body for the creature it’s cast on. Uploads on death. This means that it likely wouldn’t replicate the True Polymorph, it also can’t undo the True Polymorph. The simplest option is it makes a Clone of you True Polymorphed form. Suggesting when you die, and upload into the new form, that new body is just you now. Nothing to revert too.
If you banged yourself, I’d curse your offspring. Not so much if your other self banged someone else. Naturally the Clone turns your other self diminutive.
I wouldn’t change your offspring as a DM unless you truly became that other creature. This solves that. It’s also a great way to permanently depower a BBEG who resurrects. I’d also rule any Geas or Modified Memory can become permanent this way. If you cast it on the creature then Clone it. My reasoning being, the power to sustain the spell wouldn’t continue, but it’s imprint on the creatures form would transfer. But you don’t have to.
Yeahhhh buddy, new smoughtown Lore Vid . Let's get it !!! Btw i think Radagon is a result of Marika concentrating the giants curse and the loyalty to the greater will and manifesting it into a body separate from herself . This would help her to collaborate with Ranni to bring on the night of the black knives . It would also help to explain Radagons red hair . A little out there i know but possible nonetheless.
Great work, as usual!
I find it odd that Radagon would create the red wolves and lion misbegotten with red hair intentionally, considering that he hated his red hair. Maybe he created them from himself, which is why their hair came out red.
Maybe he did it using his own divine blood. Much like his son waters his tree.
Well he himself hated his red hair, because of giant association, but eventually his red hair was seen as a positive by the people; that includes his own children like Radahn. So even if he didn't like his hair color, the representation in current Erdtree society could be why he made his wolves' hair red like his.
Great analysis once again Smoughtown.
An old idea that I thought of (I'm almost definitely not the first to think of it) was about whether or not Radagon could be an albinauric.
It's an interesting idea to me, and I see a few key pieces of evidence.
1. Marika is known to have a hammer. The hammer she owned came with her from beyond the lands between. It is the same hammer radagon uses in our battle with him. Hammers are commonly associated with smithing and forging.
2. Marika and the Numen are heavily associated with the eternal city.
3. Radagon appeared suddenly in the timeline as you pointed out.
4. The eternal city is known to have been attempting to "forge a lord".
5. Radagon became a lord.
6. Radagon (as well as marika at first, when we see her) is fading away partially. The only other characters that I am aware of who fade away are all albinaurics.
7. Radagon is associated with wolves, at least one of whom is located in the consecrated snowfield, near many other albinauric women who are also connected to wolves.
8. Radagon battled and then aligned himself with Caria, a royal family known to have significant dealings with and to have enslaved albinaurics.
9. Rykard, Radagon's son, is seen as having tortured and experimented on albinaurics, presumably for the sake of learning about them, if not to simply oust them as impure beings, being a praetor for the erdtree prior to his current state.
10. Ranni, Radagon's daughter is known to have at least one male albinauric in her service, Pidia, who is heavily connected in some way to Preceptor Seluvis, who would have been directly connected to Radagon and possibly have known secrets about him.
Maybe Miquella and Malenia's cursed existences could stem from being born partially of an albinauric, who it is said exist outsie of the erdtree's, and thus the greater will's grace.
Great video. But I have a different theory on the wolves. I think they are hunting at least Ranni and Miquella. They appear in places of their power (or even presence) but there are a few Miquella lillys in Carian Manor. I am kind of looking into Miquella's lillys to see if it might track his journey (not sure if it would be in a timeline) but I think the wolves are hunting. And guarding his secrets. Same for having a preceptor on Ranni's team.
Most of them are seen protecting things, though, like with the one in Raya Lucaria. The one in Caria Manor especially just appears to be looking over its pack.
You my man in my humble opinion, is the beat lorewise content creator when it comes to Elden Ring! Before i watch the video I had to tell you this ❤
You humble me - kind words like this keeps me going! Appreciate it
i do think it’s really curious that so many people pick up that one line from melina’s speech but entirely overlook the very next line which almost completely negates the point they try to make.
I gotta say, I was very, very, VERY skeptical when you first presented your thesis. I mean, I fought it the entire way through this video. But you, sir, are an excellent essayist and researcher. Gourmet stuff right here. Everything you've presented is overwhelmingly compelling as evidence, but what really sealed it for me was how you also used it to create an even more compelling narrative theme for the game. Probably my favorite video of yours now. Thanks for all the hard work! I've saved all your reference videos to my Watch Later playlist as well, so I appreciate the care you take in citing your references.
Maybe the "simple laborer" was Hoarah Loux before he took up the rebellion alongside Marika to establish the Golden Order. The guy had to start somewhere.
Miquella: "so how come i never see you and mom in the same room together"
Radagon: "haha i'll tell you when you're older"
Miquella, cursed with eternal youth: "..."
I think most of this video is spot on, but I do tend to disagree with tarnished archaeologist's theory that the misbegottens are attacking the Haligteee. They could have easily set the scene there with them being embroiled in a battle with the Haligteee knights, but they didn't. Instead most of the misbegotten can be seen praying, some of them even praying to statues depicting Melania and Miquella. We know Miquella was trying to create an order that accepted those outside of the Erdtree's grace. His brother lived in death, his other brother was an omen, his sister was afflicted by the outer god of rot, and so it only makes sense that the misbegotten would be included in his order. We see Albanaurics guarding the path to Haligteee, and so it seems like the misbegotten are guarding the village at the base of the Haligteee
I agree 100%. Never really understood how TA reached that conclusion. Over all, his work is really solid.
Two videos in two weeks??? We are blessed. Can’t wait to digest this on my day off
I have always thought of Marika as similar to the Nameless Namekian in DragonBall. In order to become a God, the Nameless Namekian had to split himself into two separate beings. This created Kami and Piccolo. They each were individuals living their own lives, but they were always spiritually connected. If one died, so did the other. Only Kami became a God, while Piccolo became a warrior class. This is until they later refused back into one body in order to become more powerful.
I believe Marika split either when she became a God, or from being cursed by the giants. They then each lived their own separate lives despite still being connected. They then refused most likely at their wedding, or during the shattering. If they were always one body it just never made sense to me how Marika could have lived for so long away from the capital without anyone noticing, even her family.
I love Radagon's trellis symbolism, especially how it's what indicates that he's the one sealing the Erdtree from all who deign approach. Ratatoskr has a really nice video on Radahn you should look into, about how his presence in the Shattering wars was one of maintaining the current order, and that that's exactly why he comes in conflict with Malenia, who wants to reject the Erdtree and the Golden Order, establishing Miquella's Haligtree in its place.
Yes but is he sealing it to actually stop you, or to ensure your journey culminates in success as you burn the Erdtree (Thereby weakening the Elden Beast even further) and obtaining the rune of death, the only true way to kill a god.
Because that Elden Beast wasn't going down without the world order being inclusive of true death once again.
You can skip some runes, but not this one, getting this one is part of the game's canonical story, and so is burning the erdtree.
It's almost as if this whole thing was meticulously planned. Not just your return to the lands between, but your triumph as well.
I think Marika created Radagon to remove the greater wills influence so she could think for herself. And maybe she got cursed by the last giant to have red hair and she gave that to him too. Like she split her soul in half and radagon is the part with the things she didn't want. Like william and patry in black clover iykyk
That’s my thought process as well!
Yup, she talks of the days of “ blind faith” being gone, aka, the days the greater will could control her (like Ranni does not want and how the greater will can obviously do, ex shadow bound companions). In order to realize her plans, she had to physically remove the Greater Wills influence. I mean Marika was all about power. She betrayed her people to be the God Vessel of the greater will after all.
@@beniron5807 agreed I had this thought when you hear the quote of her saying she'll analyze the golden order to find the truth but how could she do that if she was being influenced by the greater will? Especially being the vessel for the ER it probably influences her more than anything. Also I think her being so proud she's a god or referring to herself as God isn't because she's a vessel but because she ACTUALLY has free will . And I think Ranni is the foil character she also tries to become free from the GW , and she is the only other being besides marika that can become the god. She has 2 faces and 4 arms like she's two people (in her original concepts she had two voices) mirror marika being 2 people at different times. Marika wanted power and I think she had a savior complex . People say Ranni is selfish but I think her end goal was free will for everybody she had to take it for herself first.
Had been waiting for this release for a long while! Thanks SmoughTown!
No problem Diego! Enjoy my friend
My personal feeling is that Radagon is a mimic- maybe giant blood was required to get close to a clone of a god. It's Radagon we find at the end because Marika successfully escaped the dominance of the Greater Will.
This interpretation really makes me see the parallels between Radagon and Genichiro. Their love of Ashina/the Golden Order and their desire for the current age not to come to an end make them willing to do terrible things to preserve it, even defying the will of their maker Marika/Isshin. Which ultimately leads to further and further corruption of the very thing they claim to love
Great video, my friend. Keep up the excellent work
If I am not mistaken in the Japanese version, the title attributed to radagon is not radagon of the golden order but radagon, the golden order as if to say that it was the very personification of the order, an entity manifested solely to give a tangible form to a philosophical concept
It's stated that he is metaphorically *that* in the game.
Like, Godfrey was there because he was "good muscle", and he served a purpose. Radagon was more of an elegant Lord, one who's well educated and is interested in creating new knowledge.
"I declare it my intent, to search the depths of the golden order...".
That was not actually Marika, that sounds awfully a lot like Radagon.
He probably wrote the golden order principia, and the 2 incantations (detailed in it) encompassing world order, those being regression and causality, are golden order incantations.
From a metaphorical PoV, he *IS* the golden order, and it's very much akin to protestantism in the real world imho.
This video is incredible !! Made me realize a lot so thanks for that. I would have never learn all of this by my own. Also love the references you make. Have a good one and again amazing video
My little insight is that whatever the truth is, Rennala must have known it. If a sculptor found out the truth about Radagon and Marika being the same being, then a wife Radagon had 3 kids with would be certain to know as well.
To me, the destruction of all (almost) stakes of Marika in Liurnia is much more a sign not of jealousy, but Rennala being lovelorn
@@thecrankyoldman The cuckoo were from way before
Seeing as this is a recent vid, I'll happily binge this series as well as all your other Elden Ring videos... as soon as I beat the game.
While i don't necessarily agree with the idea that the misbegotten are actually servants of Radagon, the fact that Hewg disagrees with us points towards this being the case. I always wondered what exactly Hewg disagreed on with the Roundtable, and it might be that he shares the beliefs of the other Misbegotten conforming to Radagons fundamentalism instead of Marikas idea of a new order. Perhaps this is the reason why he is imprisoned. That doesn't really explain why he helps us by creating a weapon that could slay the Elden Beast, though maybe he just doesn't have a choice in his current situation.
He creates a weapon to kill a God because he's absolutely terrified of her.
Or at least that's the impression I get everytime she's brought up (if memory serves this happens twice, once when we first meet him and question why his here and chained up, saying smithing helps him forget "the sheer terror for *_her_* and later with his prayer to Marika where we learn *_her_* is Marika
Another profound piece of art. Thank you, Smough.
Wow, thank you so much! It’s my pleasure
What's the story of the blacksmith in the Knights Round Table?
Could he have wielded the Brick Hammer?
He has some history with Marika.
I can’t believe how much I DIDNT know about this character. Fascinating. I originally missed this character altogether and when I fought him I was very confused. Love your depth in the video and that you give multiple options for his origin!
Taking into account GRRM’s style, a splitting of the consciousness upon attaining godhood/when marika took the power of the Elden ring seems totally in line with the kind of thing he would come up with.
Had never even considered the misbegotten being the misbegotten OF Radagon. What a concept!
Does anyone or anything in the game question where Radagon went after the shattering? Marika is considered missing or captured by different sources but I don't remember anyone in game speculating about what happened to Radagon. The tarnished have been given the goal of becoming Elden lord, which implies that the greater will/fingers no longer see Radagon as being fit to be the Elden lord, but why is this? And why do none of the other characters in game question why Radagon needs to be replaced?
With how well regarded he was, it's kind of weird that no one is questioning what happened to him or why he's no longer fit to be Elden lord.