I wasn’t aware of the systemic context that has been tied to the word “misandry” - In this video, I used it as a term that only refers to “a distaste or hatred for men,” but by the end of posting this, I definitely agree that the underlying issue behind a phrase like “be a man” ultimately comes from a hatred for non-masculine behaviors, and thus can be more appropriately considered a form of misogyny at it’s base; this is what I was trying to get at with the criticism over TXT’s styling in mind, but without knowledge about the full context of what misandry means socially, my use of that word makes the argument I’m trying to make not very clear. I apologize for this!
More than this or anything said on video, I think boygroups aren´t as popular as girlgroups because of vocal diversity and harmony in each group. The last time I heard a Rizze song I thought it was a Seventeen song, even when SM had a wide vocal range in each group! Did anyone hear the beautiful contrast and harmonious voices in 1st and 2nd gen? Since 3rd gen the rhythms and voices have been more repetitive but kept the attention, but nowadays it's just simple and not interesting. To make the situation worse, the most known groups in 4th onwards have members that don´t offer unique voice tones because they offer visuals more than anything (Ex: Enhypen). It's obvious there are a few exceptions as Ateez but it's not the majority Just see boy groups in Jpop, they're until now not more popular than girl groups many years before, so I don´t know, maybe no or maybe yes it's a process
@@bunnylae6702 i try to listen to more bgs but i only attached to ateez,idk maybe i came from 3rd gen bg which is more diverse in vocal and not just about being visuals 🤦
It's also just the fact that girl groups have the advantage of having men and women as their demographic while boy groups usually just cater to women. Not to say these boy groups don't have fan boys, of course they do. But the amount of men, straight men to be exact that are willing to stan boy groups is comparatively low to the amount of women who are willing to stan girl groups. Especially with the rise of female empowerment as the concept for girl groups songs through the current generations, girl groups have attracted their fair share of female audiences while the boy groups are stuck with their love songs that are directed towards women.
This is honestly perhaps one of the main reasons and a constant one throughout decades. And it's a shame cuz several boy group members have been outspoken about wanting to have more fanboys, but at the same time companies still don't know how to make a boy group have massive appeal with every demographic. I see a little bit of change with groups like SKZ and ATEEZ. They're probably the only ones who have a bigger percentage of male fans than any other boy group.
Keep in mind though that during 1st & 2nd gen, boy groups still managed to attract a sizable male fanbase. 2PM for example had a huge male fanbase for their cool breakdance concept, Big Bang for their rap & swag (something to look up to for young men). Nowadays BG's are created with the female gaze in mind, with few exceptions
What female empowerment concepts are female idols bringing???? I still don't see it. And I Stan a lot of girl groups. I think we are starting to use that word too loosely nowadays.
And I can see bgs coming back a little bit, too! TWS, BoyNextDoor, and Riize (but _especially_ TWS) are leading the wave of bgs that are capturing public interest. Of course, I don’t see gg interest falling off, but it never really does.
Nope. It wasnt. Only BTS, Wanna One, 17, Exo, and occassionally iKON and Winner (sr if i forgot anyone else) have hit songs. It was actually gen 2. Gen 2 boy groups shaped the entire industry Kpop back then. It started with TVXQ, then Big Bang, Super Junior, Beast, Infinite, Shinee, 2PM, 2AM. Each one of them wrecked the charts, sales and even daesangs, regardless of their company backgrounds
@@namanh8439 NCT Dream, Day6 (retroactively), GOT7, Pentagon, BTOB, NU'EST, and N.Flying all had at least one domestic hit single. I agree that 2nd gen was the peak for bgs in both domestic charts and Korean pop culture relevance, but the 3rd gen boy groups were still far more relevant than 4th gen bgs have been.
@@gemmamoon5998 i totally forgot about got7! Sorry. But Nuest debuted during the time gen 2 was in his heyday and they did actually nail a superhit (Face) at the time. And then in gen 3 they kinda faded until Produce 101.
@@gemmamoon5998 yeah but the chances of these groups replicating hits after hits like the way gen 2 did were very slim. Those groups u mentioned had hits but inconsistent and except for BTS, Wanna One and Exo i believe few of them frequently won any daesangs or digital awards
4th gen ggs have weak fandoms but lots of general public attention and 4th gen bgs have strong fandoms but no one outside their fandom cares about them
That's true like stray kids fans are always saying that they are making a huge impact and their music is really popular but no one knows them outside their fandom
@@exceptionallydistinctivedi481i think a lot of bg stan’s (as someone who is both bg and gg) get into the group in a parasocial way bc their videos are so insane and fun and they have a lot of personality whereas ggs are expected to be calmer and more professional in their videos and interviews or they get hated on for being pick mes and shit, so it’s harder for some people to connect with their personalities and then they turn to bgs instead even if the music sucks lol
@@gojowilldie703I wouldn't agree with that. I personally know a handful of people that aren't stays, but from time to time I see them jamming to skz songs. There are not k-pop stans too.
kpop is just like fashion. fashion for women is so versatile that they are able to enhance and/or reinvent themselves in however many styles they like. but with men... fashion can be so rigid. there's only so much you can do and you eventually go back to shirts and pants formula. hopefully a boy group comes out and shakes up the kpop scene this new generation.
love this point!! i find that styling also presents an advantage for ggs (albeit not as significant compared to music ofc). ggs have gone somewhat “viral” or more appreciated for fun/interesting styling, whether negative or positive, while compared to bgs they often only go viral if they wear a crop top lol. it’s so boring but it’s so hard to break out of that with how male fashion is perceived
No because if you want to do a royal concept, guys have like 2 possible outfits while girls have so many things to choose from. It’s literally like dress up with gg
also with makeup! i see SO MANY shorts and tiktok that are themed like “wonyoung lip tutorial” or “chaewon blush tutorial” or “female idol hairstyle tutorial”. there’s just so much variety with girls while guys just do eye wings occasionally twice a year and all their fans go RIOT about it lmao.
I've always been saying that boy groups depend on fan power and girl groups depend on the general public. I can only think of one exception and it's day6.
I think for day6 it’s mostly because they’re a band like I’m a gg stan but I still listen to day6, onewe, the rose etc because honestly the music that they make isn’t like most of K-pop songs you hear and also they’re not marketed as hot men or attractive boys don’t get me wrong they’re hot but the main point is that they’re companies don’t try to market them only towards fan girls
I am a new my day, and i like Day6 because of their music talent and live performance, their handsome faces is just a bonus. I often hear their song with my dad and he likes too. I think "band" has their own classification because they are mostly compose and arrange their own songs and of course they plays their own instruments.
@@adellpattyThis! I moved from being a casual listener to a fan mid last year and since I was mostly active and rock/emo/punk band spaces (FOB, Deftones, Paramore, Arctic Monkeys, and Linkin Park) the whole idea of men not liking or engaging in boy groups was foreign to me lol. Ofc I ended up mostly being a fan of bgs. (TWICE, and LSF are exceptions to the rule) There should be a video discussing the rock/pop-punk to K-pop pipeline lmao.
Despite long hiatuses, WINNER songs traditionally have charted really well in Korea thanks mostly to general public support and because of this they also get invited a lot to variety programmes and TV shows. They did a guerilla concert back in 2022 and 20,000 people showed up, mostly non-ICs (non-fans)
3:19 Honestly that's so stupid. It's not the first time TXT had a more soft look in their styling (Sugar Rush Ride having them in romantic shirts and having glitter in all of their stages, to put an example) TXT is a group whose concept is heavily rooted in fantasy and fairytales, so their styling reflects that vibe most of the times. Those people clearly do not care if the styling fits the concept or even bother to think about what TXT's concept is. It's not the biggest thing but I'm tired of people complaining about "all boy groups are the same" but then having a problem when they deviate of their restrictive idea of what a boy group should look and sound like
So true. If a boy grp goes full out for a concept rather than hopping on trends like afrobeat/amapiano wave due to tyla's influence and success, or other such stuf, they should atleast stick true to their characteristic style and concept also let it marinate as well before hopping to something else e.g. Enhypen has such good concept of vampires going on but due to their creative team being indecisive and greedy executives idiotic decisions are made for them. In terms of portraying concept, they are similar to aespa. But the difference imo is the style & aesthetics. Aespa stays true to their cybercore/cyberpunk/futuristic aesthetics while hybe is just ruining enhypen's unique appeal of classic vampire stuff just for chase of big numbets on charts and money which they kinda fail to achieve bc ggs have been dominating the charts left and right. bite me was sucha phenomenal comeback was Vampires, aesthetics, supernatural and good arse instrumentals plus can't forget the production quality of that yummy album. It left me hungry for more of this dramatic vampire stuff. I wished they tried dipping their toe in vkei type of music and aesthetics next but since Koreans are still hella conservatives they won't be able to handle that. Sweet venom and next comebacks were underwhelming bc they set the standard of their peak vampirism so high that these recent two comebacks fall flat in comparison to bite me. But still they as a stand alone tracks are pretty good and fun listen but that's it. Like do you getvwhat I'm saying. Chasing big nunbers on charts is gonna destroy your appeal so fast unless you do something unhinged & unique. This is a common problem in kpop. Every grp is obsessed w a concept but fails to deliver and stay loyal to that concept. 3rd gens were the last gen where they stuck with concepts do well and transitioned to another thing gracefully e.g. GFriend, GOT7, BTS, EXO etc.
@@kanohaneyes because aespa, I've, new jeans, and g-idle are all the same. They definitely don't have a signature concept that makes them significantly distinct from each other. Just like blackpink, twice, red velvet, and gfriend all did the exact same thing.
@@kanohane this has to be the dumbest take i've ever read actually, can you explain the similarities between Loona and new jeans in terms of concepts, please?
Because boy groups aren't as seen as disposable so older gens can still reign which also means younger boy groups don't get to have a firm foothold. Girl groups are completely different and SM is a good example of how much they invest in Red Velvet compared to Aespa. The way Pledis under HYBE handles fromis_9 that debuted in 2017 also speaks to this. The fact SNSD debuted a year before Shinee but are barely active compared to Shinee says a lot. All of them are mismanaged but the gender difference here is stark. You see all the time of fans "dreaming" of a 2nd gen girl group to reunite like it's some wild fantasy but there's still more 2nd gen boy groups around that have never left (2PM on JYP, an inactive BigBang, etc).
I see that but also SM isn't a really great example,they always throw their last released group under the bus when they have a new shiny thing...just look at NCT127s last comeback now that they have riize,how EXO began being neglected when NCT started getting traction...like sure other companies maybe but SM has always been a joke overall when it comes to longevity
This so much! It’s another reason why older gen ggs like TWICE, Red Velvet, and at this point BLACKPINK (I still cannot believe they’re only a year younger than TWICE) who have defied odds and have remained not just active but relevant and fresh are so revered beyond their discography and their talent!
i dont necessarily think boy groups struggle since a lot of them have very solid fanbases but what i have noticed it that they tend not to appeal to trends. i think it’s difficult to word it but a lot of times, 'the girls' just seem to be doing the job perfectly. if you look at the west, boy groups specifically have never really been respected and people put the 'marketed towards female teenagers' label upon them which is very difficult to bounce back from. if you put it into perspective: i think in western audiences for example, groups like blackpink are more respected than bts. i myself encounter a handful of people who view bts pretty negatively because they find them cringey and like you have stated 'want them to man up', whereas for blackpink, a lot of people here follow them on ig and their endeavors outside of kpop so they are generally respected more. i cant really tell whats its like in korea since i am not korean but as a 'western person' i always had this feeling that boy groups will continue to have a difficult time being taken seriously. recently riize is the only boy group i can think of who has been making some waves outside of kpop spaces, probably because of their rather non-chalant and simple approach. other grps are either concept heavy or too predictable which makes them feel a little unauthentic, it doesn’t appeal to a lot of people and doesnt contribute to any longevity or growth.
@@flavio. That’s a really interesting point - it does seem like the “popular with teenage girls” label is not meant to be a good thing, which I think explains a lot of problems with mainstream relevance in itself
And it doesn't help that though BTS has released so many harder songs, the only ones that got traction and notoriety in the US and west were their extremely soft or poppy songs that seem to inflate and "justify" peoples/non fans inherent bias. As a black person myself it has taken me showing a lot of the groups hip hop and r&b based songs to family and friends in order for me to just get them off my back about liking bts and kpop. Especially since so many don't believe that they have the amount of adult and male fans that they actually have. I know a lot of people didn't like stray kids performing s-cass in the US but I think it was a good thing just based on the fact that it was a more aggressive song which goes against a lot of preconceived notions about kpop and boybands
The west has huge mainstream boygroups before like One Direction, Backstreet Boys and Jonas Brothers. Also bands were also very popular. Even bands that make more pop music like Maroon 5 and Coldplay are famous.
@@vixxexo6855 true, they were very popular but people still saw them as something for teenage girls. There were plenty that didn't see them as real artists until they broke up. In fact it's such a strong view that most people expect boybands to break up and come out with some "real music" smh Which is ridiculous because there are so many boybands from the past that were popular and had adult fans (Jackson 5, boys2men, Beatles, new edition, temptations, backstreet boys, 4seasons ect.) yet people hear boyband and automatically think"teenage girl fans". I noticed that it's one of the first things that people do when anyone into kpop comments on it they automatically get called a hormonal teenage girl or fatherless child who will develop better music tastes when they get older (and half the time the person saying that doesn't know anything kpop related outside of Gangnam style)
@@vixxexo6855 that is true but i think there’s still a kpop act (boy group) who has yet to prove themselves. i also think the music these groups put out is very different from what kpop groups do, solely because of the language barrier and the different aesthetics/ approach.
It's funny because when I got into kpop it felt like no one cared about ggs which was frustrating because I couldn't get into the boy groups. Anyone I've met in my life familiar with kpop only liked boy groups, target only stocks boy groups albums, only boy groups ended up on the radio (aka bts lol). So I for one am loving this gg Era
i have a similar experience. while i had boy groups that i liked when i first got into kpop but it came to a point where i only liked ggs (among active groups) and i couldn’t get into any of the bgs that were debuting with very few exceptions and everyone was into bgs and i just couldn’t get it. but now we’re at a point where there is a few bgs that i like which is cool.
Exactly that's why its so weird to see bgs whining about them not being appreciated like 3rd gen groups weren't ever taken seriously unless they were boys cause they had "real choreos" and girl groups were weak and could only do cute concepts...I was always a bg stan and now I'm realizing how much of that fanbase has so much built in misogyny,like a girl could breathe near a boy group and she'd get merciless destroyed by the fandoms...this is not misandry,girl groups are just more interesting now,but Bambam saying that it used to be like that during 3rd gen bffr
i think the difference is bg fandoms are sm more dedicated and theres also more bg fans in the west (assuming thats where u live/are from). none of my irls are gg stans and i find it impossible to meet a gg stan irl (not like im looking for them but there happens to be a lot of kpop stans in my school and from my friend group (also not purposeful lmao).
It happened something similar to me, too! I discovered kpop back in 2013/2014, but since at that time the most relevant groups were mostly boy bands, that was what I could find, but I couldn't really get into them, and the few popular gg weren't my cup of tea. But in 2019, with the rise on the popularity of kpop in the western, I started looking again for kpop groups hoping this time I could find something that could be my style and found groups like Izone, Mamamoo or Itzy, and I slowly started listening to more and more gg, and nowadays I still can't really get into boy groups haha
I think it's also the homophobia koreans (boys and girls) have. We complain that bgs always look the same and boygroupfy gg choreo, but if a boygroup does something too feminine koreans would hate on them. Like what happened with some zb1 members (they were saying they shouldn't act that gay) or people saying feel the pop fits a girlgroup more when music should not have any gender, it's just an art expression
This even makes sense, Koreans have criticized and mocked boy groups (or some members) for acting in a more 'feminine' way instead of the standard masculine image
Form what I’ve seen most male idol get complimented for it. The other day I saw seonghwa dancing nwjns how sweet and people were praising him for doing the choreo as is
@@harinibitla3851 but that's on the international side of the fandom. Also if they casually act feminine from time to time they won't say anything but if they often act too feminine you'll see people complaining. Taerae from ZB1 danced to gidle super lady and knetz said that they prefer his church oppa image more or that he should stop acting too gay bc people would think he is one
@@user-qk4gh6in9m wow I didn’t know it was that bad. I guess that’s one of many problems holding BGs back from experimenting? I wonder what concepts we would have if BGs had the same conceptual freedom as the GGs
@@harinibitla3851 yes they're very close minded. They also don't like when a bg release noisy/dark music so that's why a lot of bg are doing cute concepts now but if they try something new and different it can be labelled as too feminine and a girlgroup should have done the song instead
To be honest many girlgroup fans are also TXT fans! Though i‘m not a Moa yet i feel like TXT is revolutionising concepts for the boygroup sector and are on par with girlgroup concepts! When you talk about concepts and versatility in music it‘s girl groups at the front and TXT as the only boy group for some reason. They‘re too ahead of their time and have been since the beginning. Their trailer film for the latest album blew my mind. I might stan honestly✨
This might be a reason why whenever we look at korean music charts they are always being topped by ggs and txt as the only boy group doing great on the korean charts 🤔
@@schneeling i‘m a stan at this point haha. I always tune in to TXT but i typically don‘t find myself liking boygroup music nor their personalities. With TXT it‘s different and they deliver every time. They seem genuinely nice and funny too. I‘ll be watching more soon✨thank youu
@@mari_rita it is honestly. The only boygroup i listen to even without staning is TXT. They‘re genuinely interesting in their concepts and their music is amazing and always good even their besides. They go all out every time. They always sneak into my playlists and they‘re the only boygroup hahah
3:19 as a moa this just makes me cackle bc its the same ppl criticising the balletcore stylings who loveddddd blue hour ( where they wore crop tops and glitter!) and wanted that kind of txt music back again soooo bad (note: txt have consistently had an upbeat song as a promoted/ fan favorite bside every single cb since- no rules, tchftg, happy fools, happily ever after ( tt challenge), isytt ...) also, isytt is sonically similar to super shy! the problem moas are facing rn is the lack of promotion from bighit :DD i may be biased when i say this but i think txt can truly achieve aespa/nwjns level of public acknowledgement if only bighit did their fucking job! something to note in this regard is that txt's old managerial/promotional team was transferred to le sserafim ( who i semi ult so please for the love of god this is not hating on the girls at all) i dont know what prompted that decision but as moas we've noticed a marked difference in how txt is promoted both domestically and internationally for a while now, and when that news came out .... yeah
This is so rightt, txt are already so popular and they could reach higher if they are promoted well and its pissing me off because since around 2022 it changed..but they are still doing well though, selling tours ect regardless
@@cosette-angelface I've been wondering about this for a while now. I got into kpop (and txt) at the end of 2022 and lately I see everywhere the statement they don't get promoted right... Was it different before? What changed? I didn't see any problems with their promotion so far, but many people complain about it ^^'
@@schneeling there is difference since 2022, the watermarks and thumbnails of their videos had been changed since good boy gone bad era so they are managed by a different team now ig. And also they arent doing two mvs per cb like they used to before? like tinnitus had so much potential- why didnt they make an mv for it...they are also promoting only for two weeks on music shows..All of this and they still overwork them so badly like
If you want a male idol that has a gender neutral concept and leanes into the "feminine style" more, and who is the very definition of artistic ethos, just look at Taemin, he pioneered it in kpop and he's been doing it for YEARS. and there ARE boy groups that followed in his lead.
i dont know how to word it really this is such a huggeeeee topic but it’s almost as if we’re living in a 'girlfication' era. i think everyone on social media gets what i mean… its almost as if 'the girlies' are becoming the standard whereas men are just there lol. im not trying to pity men, i am a guy myself but its like "she‘s barbie, and he's just ken“. i feel bad for them tho because a lot of them have rly interesting music and bsides but unfortunately people dont have much interest in listening to eps/ albums anymore so they stop exploring once they dislike a single from an album
Idk if it's a bad perspective, but personally I think that's okay, like women have been "just there" for ages, it's their time to shine. So I didn't loved when yeonjun said he'd like people to pay more attention to bg bc it's been like that for the past generations (no hate to him, I'm a moa). It's like men don't know what to do now that women have more power and are attacking people (talking about men in general, not groups specifically)
I think even if girl groups are getting more validation and are being recognised in positive light there is also a mass amount of hate and misogynistic behaviour too like literally every female gets hate for no reason and these k-pop fans calling every female idol pick-me too , k-pop has a very large amount of double standards
I don’t really see that. Maybe it’s cause I stan groups like skz and txt, but I never see dismiss them for the girls. Or that there less popular in content boy groups also often stay way more out and get generell less criticized then girls in talent, live singing ect. Boys get it more with music.
Imo as a boy group Stan turned girl group stan a lot of boy groups target a female audience while making music in a genre that one would consider “manly” while girls group have started to target not just a male audience especially since 2017/2018 ( point when i started listening mostly to ggs ) plus they try to appeal to the gp focusing on likability rather than sales and charts. So it’s like the companies are shooting themselves in the foot with trying to reach so high rather than making enjoyable music.
At this point companies should learn that they aren’t gonna make another BigBang that can appeal to young men? Groups like iKON have legitimately gotten close to emulating BigBang’s idgaf energy and they still don’t have a large male audience. I think the boy group industry as it currently stands is just too stigmatized as a “girly” interest for these companies to reach a large teen boy demographic.
No... because male fandoms have always been bigger and spend more because they like to see teens in miniskirts and barely clothed. Its the same with Western artists....how many top female artists/sellers do you see dressed in next to nothing vs males. Also depends on your fandom. I would just say that Ggs and their 'female' stans make more drama and conflict thusfore garnering attention...I have not seen the male stans dragging other GGs, and as far as music..its all the same repetitive cutesy shiat made to go viral on Tiktok...nothing further matters for the girls...Their knows exactly what they're marketing..
@@kanohane There are absolutely fan wars within boy group _and_ girl group fandoms. EXO vs BTS was as much, if not more, drama than a lot of gg stans are stirring up. As for whether male fans of ggs stir up drama, of course they do, too! We don’t know the faces behind stan accounts, and a lot of the rage-baiting people on gg twitter could very well be men. I agree with you that misogyny & objectification play a major role in why ggs are popular among young men, but you’re leaning into a bit of misogyny yourself by claiming male fans are less dramatic than female fans. Unless you have quantitative evidence on the gender divide in fan wars, most of what you’re saying is anecdotal and possibly based on your own internal biases.
@@kanohane Just because you haven't seen the relentless misogyny and sexism that female idols are subjected to by boy group fans does not mean that it doesn't exist
1. People (men) denigrate anything women/girls enjoy- romance novels to boy groups. 2. There's a metaphorical 300lb gorilla taking up a LOT of boygroup space. I think for casual fans, in many cases if they want to hear boygroup music they're gonna listen to BTS or its soloists (which as an ARMY I totally get, the music is great and there's a lot of variety). In this metaphor SVT is the 200lb gorilla. 3. I've had more success introducing non-kpop fans to boygroups over GGs, maybe because most of my friends prefer harder sounds & especially more athletic choreo (GG choreo leans more towards "fun to do" than "wow that's amazing I could never" because of limitations placed by wardrobe expectations- dangerous to jump around in heels!)
yes wardrobe, and most of them have to weight so little to be accepted by public, i can't imagine having to be skinny AND dance crazy choreos every damn time
My take is because sexism and ageism towards female groups and loyalty towards boy groups. I believe bg fanbases r generally much more loyal to their idols and this isnt inherently good. When groups from previous gens like BTS, Seventeen, Exo, Shinee are still here it is very hard to persuade their existing, predominantly females, to experiment new boy groups. It is the opposite for ggs, esp those with predominantly male fans: the sexism and ageism of Kpop enforced this idea that the younger the groups are the easier it is for them to cater to the male gaze. Thatz why groups with lots of fanboys like Twice, Gfriend started to lose their mojo, paving ways for newer, younger groups. Men just simply switched fandoms when they saw something younger. This is why we have this trend of having more minors in ggs, giving this illusions that these girls will stay young for longer and thus maintaining their fans for a longer time Another reason is the music. Knets themselves all complained about how bgs music sounds so weird and i believe this is a conscious choice if it became a pattern. For what reason idk? But im guessing it was because since Korea has a strong connection with female-oriented industries like cosmetics and fashion, they need to give good songs to ggs to earn public recognition and therefore easier for them to strike lucrative deals with brands
This sexism/ageism displays so weirdly in Kpop. Even with military service interrupted their careers, some of the groups with the most longevity are BG. I would love to see more groups like Mamadol 😊. When I first started getting into Kpop, I strictly preferred BG - which was weird since my non-kpop music preferences were usually women. In the last couple of years, I've started to appreciate GG more. I'm not sure if it's just exposure or that GG songs have become a little lower pitched (I have tinnitus which is sometimes irritated by higher pitches).
@@Maria-uv9pd i believe it has something to do with Asian social hierarchy and patriarchy. Men are more dominant and r usually coupled with women younger than them, so fan girls regardless of their ages/generations dont have a problem stanning their oppas even if the guys r growing older (as long as they r not like uncles). In that sense, men are less likely to be attracted by older women so they tend to grab onto younger female groups. However, ironically, when fans of both genders grow up and get married, it seems like itz more acceptable for women to stan kpop idols than for men. Stanning kpop for grownup men can be seen as immature, and a trait of infidelity while the same from women is much more forgivable and perceived as a natural habit
I think fans of BTS and seventeen are there for the music. As they should. Both have very distinct sounds. It is a big weird to say these fans refused to move on to younger groups because the older boys are still around as if this is some weird breeding program instead of about music.
@@HailToTheMeep yes the music brought them there, but is it all to keep them staying? Not sure abt seventeen but for BTS their musical style changed consistently and drastically that "old BTS" and "new BTS" became the new terms when fans talked about their preferences of BTS' music. And if music was all they care about, why bother bashing V for uploading Mcdonald ? 🙏. Agree tho that their music is much more public-friendly than most other groups. And yes Kpop has always been a breeding program. So is the entire music industry. One person was made to replace other. Nsync was made to replace Backstreet Boys, Jlo was made to replace Mariah Carey (ahaha), bla bla and itz weird but better blame it on audience consumption
@@namanh8439 Coldplay’s music changes through the decades as their experiences changed from young men to husbands and fathers and older men. The Beatles changed their sounds in the latter parts of their career as they grew older and the 1960s became the 1970s. Their fans grew up with them, some left some new ones came. That’s music. V? I have no idea what “fans” you are talking about. ARMY? What part of ARMY. The fandom is HUGE and HIGHLY DIVERSE. “Old BTS” and “New BTS”? So? You want 35 year olds singing about having crushes with high school girls? Creepy. Kpop male idols BEFORE BTS are considered finished after military. Their company stopped supporting them and if they are lucky one or two of them are picked to be a soloist where the company can invest less money as they throw money at younger groups. BTS is in the military and they are just starting. You think that’s not the music? You think that’s just because of their fandom? You just said BTS music changes. So their fandom changes. Some have left exactly as many said why not go somewhere else. They did. They are called kpop fans. Others stayed. Because their music can’t be found elsewhere unless you are into indie and alternative music whether rock or hip hop or pop. They continue to listen to their indie music while BTS is in the military. Not kpop. And since BTS members kept releasing new songs they are enjoying those too. Others from outside of kpop came in to check them out. Like I did during DYNAMITE. And as some kpop fans left more GP came in. They don’t vote for MMA or MAMA or whatever other awards innever cared about before and suddenly cared because of BTS. But they are here for the right reasons. The reasons which will give BTS a chance to do this until they are 50. Why mention Backstreet Boys? Why mentioned One Direction? You are still thinking boyband and kpop while BTS has never fitted into that category and is not growing in the same trajectory. You are still talking kpop when the rest of us are talking serious music bands with high music credibility even if not to everyone’s tastes. You should be talking Coldplay. Genesis. Beatles. And Queen. 🙄
As somebody here mentioned: People say, that all boygroups are the same yet when they deviate from the average "boygroup style" (whatever that means) they complain. Youp, people don't make sense somethimes... This reminded me of the backlash TEN from NCT have gotten after Yves Saint Laurent fashion show this year for wearing a top that is considered more of "feminine" shape/style (turtleneck top with bare shoulders). He was called "gay", "girly", "not enough of a man" amongst many other really nasty things. People want to see something new from boygroups yet when they do, they face backlash. If girlgroups wear men's clothes, they are praised for being bold, edgy, cool, etc. (Tomboy). Damn, how much I hate this double-standard. PS: sorry for my rant PS2: english is not my first language, sorry for any mistakes PS3: thank you for the video and to all of you reading: Have a nice day!:)
I feel like 2ne1 is to be thanked for this. When 2ne1 debuted, all the girl groups had the same feminine and innocent concept while they had a more badass or i could say "manly" concept. They also got a lot of hate because of that but they managed to outgrow it and became the legends they are today. We are yet to have something like that with boy groups. Tbh yg artists in general have had so much impact in the kpop industry especially artistically.
What yeonjun actually meant was totally for the kside and more specifically told for other 4th gen bg like ateez enha skz are entering billboard charts while they have never probably enter top 100 or top 50 of melon
I also think misogyny actually is a major factor here. Girl groups and female idols are treated very differently as they age compared to boy groups. Ggs often struggle to keep fans long term and lose popularity once they hit a certain age. Female idols and celebrities in general age out of the spotlight in a way men do not. This means that girl groups of prior generations lose their popularity in time for new girl groups to emerge and take their spot as the main girl groups the public is looking at. Boy groups struggle because they have longevity. Seventeen and BTS are dominating the boy group scene in the same way they have for years, where as groups like Twice and Red Velvet have shifted when it comes to their position in the public’s view of Kpop. They are not necessarily unpopular, but they are not the dominating and almost over shadowing forces they used to be, which allows new groups to become those dominant forces.
Y’all are saying all bgs sound same/noisy. A few years back, there wasn’t a popular opinion like that. But as Skz/Nct/Ateez got more famous and successful with their so called “noisy discography” other bgs followed the trends. Just like now, a lot of fans saying “new gg releases sound same” “nothing special” tiktok music” “easylistening western music” “boring song” Y’all gonna change sides in 2 years by saying all ggs sound same as they follow what’s trendy😃
This too😭 i mean they already change their fav gg like dirty underwear so who is surprised? Newjeans all of a sudden makes boring songs to them after gushing over how fresh their music is for 1 1/2 years. Its nearly comical atp
@@harinibitla3851 no no i dont i am dissing the kpoppies who change their opinion on a group every day😭 one day its the best group ever, the other day they are enemy no 1 or just not interesting anymore because they found a new toy...this isnt meant specific about new jeans but about groups in general
The fandom thing wigh boy groups (specially big groups like skz, txt, etc) are likely to hsve great longetivety due to loyal fandom unlike ggs whi attract general audience that turn their bsck on them after few years (itzy is a great example) it's sad but it is what it is.
This is exactly how I see it 4th gen gg blow up really quickly and go very commercial but it doesn't last long while most boy groups have the loyalty of a fanbase over a long time but at the same time they kinda only have their fanbase and not the same commercial success of a lot of 4th gen gg
That’s because the group relying on a general public isn’t a thing. The general public 90% of the times (with the exception of few organic hits) listens to what they are presented by the companies (so basically the highest bidder). For example, songs on the radio or on the curated playlists, on tiktok, etc. are mostly there because the company paid for it (radio is mostly payola, spotify playlisting is made by people at spotify based on their khm khm “expertise”, so on). So basically what the general public listens to is what they hear a lot from media and what is presented to them as successful - it is pure marketing. And once the company decides to stop the cash flow going into group promotions those groups become unsuccessful. The only way for a girl group to be successful in the long run is for them to not be just a product and build a fandom. But the thing is, fandoms are built with sincerity not only in character (a lot of girl group members have very good personalities and seem like genuinely nice poeple) but also in the music which girl groups lack. There is a reason why groups like BTS and SVT have huge and devoted fandoms even tho they aren’t conventional in a lot of ways. Even if every once in a while their song doesn’t hit or has a weird production, or they have a voice crack or fall on the stage it doesn’t matter because most of their music that they perform is their craft and is a part of their story, depicting things they want to say. So a bad song written by the member is still more valuable to the listener than a souless hit that sounds good. Becuse there is intention and it is a part of a journey. People will genuinely support the groups that make a huge emotional impact on them because that is the thing that sticks with us in the long run. A song that doesn’t mean a lot to a listener at one point just becomes background noise. And that’s what happens to a lot of girl group music, even high quality music - it doesn’t stick because it doesn’t feel sincere nor impactful. I feel like at this point it isn’t even sad, it’s what the girlies should expect coming into it without having a need to say something with their music. They are at full mercy of their company.
I do agree. Girl groups could do a concept of them wearing suits and looking kinda masculine and it would be cool (even in real life), but could a boy group wear something that is a little more feminine and not get hate for it? I don't think so.
yeah, but there's a reason for that. Femininity has always been hated on even though it's wanted, and being a bit more masculine has always been accepted. It's not only that boy groups get hate for acting more feminine, it's that being feminine in general isn't as respected as much as being masculine is. We gotta solve that problem first, and show that you can also be strong/respectable in your feminine energy too so that there's less stigma around it.
Because those suits are made for female body...... Ask women to wear suits made for men. It will look ridiculous. Not sure how one's supposed to make "female styled" clothes for male body.
2:33 the phrase "be a man" does not come from misandry at all, just like misandry itself, this phrase comes from misogyny. this idea that men and women need to essentially "be" certain way comes from misogyny. and even talking about the txt example that some people found the new txt concept not as appealing as others because its more "femenine", that could be considered a form of misogyny. i don't understand why people even consider misandry an important factor when it actually doesn't have that much of an impact in society yet. if we want to talk about men not being able to explore as much as women, we need to talk about misogyny and how prevalent it is and will probably continue to be in the future. we need to stop talking about misandry when it doesn't affect our society and probably will never affect society in the way misogyny has, does and will continue to do so.
thank u soooo much for this I'm kinda going insane with him and some people in the comments treating misandry like it's a real thing 😭 and worse some of them are women thinking like that
@aphrwodite yess!! i think some people see a lot of girl group fans hating on boy groups and think that it is misandry but don't realize that they are like that to other girl groups as well
one thing that I think that it's so curious to me is that in first place it's not real that BGs aren't charting, but the groups who are charting in Korea aren't having the same impact in the international fandom, like Way 4 luv by PLAVE and Plot Twist by TWS are in the top songs in streams in melOn and they went viral in tiktok Korea, but internationally no one cares about them... Meanwhile the groups who get more recognition from the international fandom like Stray Kids and ATEEZ in korean charts they don't have good results But the thing that it calls more my attention is that this is what happened in the past but with GGs: Apink, Girl's Day, Secret, AOA and others were groups recognized for being monsters in the korean charts with 0 international fandom
also even in top groups local and internationally popular we can see the division in how they react to different type of songs: Seventeen the last year released Super and God of Music, Super is the song with better growth in streams of the group in youtube and Spotify being in top 10 most viewed of the last years, in korea went well but nothing exceptional for seventeen, meanwhile God of music was decent in youtube and spotify like they had the international attention meanwhile in Korea was one of the 9 songs in being at the top of the charts and the only one that was released by a Boygroup between the nine
Agree that there is definitely a big division in music taste of the SK gp and the international public. But I think we also need to note that the international public who comes across this music is mostly people who are already kpop fans, very young people who are interested in that music anyway, and beyond them I don't think that people of other ages really ever come across that music. On the other hand the chart defining SK's general public is made up of people of all ages, and they all together will contribute to something charting. Other than these differences a music taste difference is very obvious to me, since as you said, 5th generation groups are not making it to the international market, but just yet I think. Now I can for example say, Skz last comeback was obviously thought through without thinking about promoting on music shows at all. They released the album when no one is releasing anything because of Olympics and music shows being cancelled at that time, which might show that they don't even care about the domestic attention in the end.
@@leppaeti1815 tbf tho I only recently got into some Kpop things because I randomly came across pass the mic and tamed-dashed by enhypen. I ain't the biggest fan of pop (whether Korean, Japanese or western) in general but I had friends back in the day that really like bts. *I guess there may be people like me, that may like a song and just enjoy it without having to be a Kpop fan or a Stan* in the west (which I don't really consider myself to be but I do like songs but find others uninteresting/boring, jus preference same with any genre hiphop/indie/techno etc.). Especially with Magnetic by ILLIT, I was seeing that everywhere in gyms memes my friends were sending me (that don't listen to Kpop at all). Some people just take what they like from genre/country style and dip, or come back for another good track🤷🏾♀ (and I may acc like jpop cus of anime openings, but that maybe more indie rock?)
@@togarmah9848 Considering the topic this video is discussing, I guess you're interested in kpop in general as well, I can't call myself a stan either because it really sounds like stretching it to me, but I am generally interested in yearly releases mostly from boy groups. While of course there are people who accidentally just come across Enhypen or Skz for example, and become casual listeners, but when you're mentioning Magnetic, there are way way more people who came across Magnetic just in these past 5 months, both internationally and domestically. Same goes for most of Newjeans songs, they simply have tons more of general public recognition both at home and worldwide. To me this video seems to be referring mostly to 4th gen boygroups, because they have since 2018 had the time to develop, yet the case of their irrelevancy lies actually in their lack of domestic success. None of those groups comes even close to domestic popularity their girlgroup competition has, thus we talked about the division between groups who are popular domestically and those who are internationally. Bang si hyuk recently talked about this group's over reliance on superfans, rather than catering to the general public, and that this was a practice until recently. He then talked about how this practice doesn't pay off well, and I think we can see what he actually tried to do regarding this problem, when we take a look at his new groups like NJ, Illit, then BND and TWS, who all try to cater to a wider public
It's kind of weird because i still remember the time bg stans used to trash gg stans because they has less album sales , didn't use to chart much and like when boy groups were dominating the kpop industry but suddenly every bg stan is so pissed that for once a ggs are taking the lead.
I think it all comes down to what you consider relevance and success. Boy groups do an incredible job of building a loyal and dedicated fan base. A part of that is that boy groups spend a lot of time and effort on creating their own variety content. Like Run BTS, Going Seventeen, TXT To Do, Wanteez etc etc. It’s definitely a different strategy. To say that boy groups don’t have equally as good of music is a straight up lie. I see so many people write of boy group music as if they all sound the same. Please listen to Adore U by Seventeen followed up with Guerilla by ATEEZ and get back to me if you think that’s the case😂
I'll be honest, as a straight adult, stanning newly debuted boy groups with young members makes me feel very uncomfortable. Adding on that I prefer soft or rockish concepts, both in boy and girl groups. I LOVE soft boy group concepts, deja vue was one of my favorite concepts TXT has had in a while as I came across the trailer recently I haven't really stanned a boy groups since SHINee, they did versitile concepts well, and I find myself prefereing japanese boy groups who embrace both masculine and feminine concepts extremely well. TXT and xrdinary heroes are currently the only boy groups I've really considered following in a long time.
what’s even more hilarious and confusing abt this is that txt’s temptation album was a double million seller, 1st on billboard etc and that concept was very fantasy, glitter, fairy, and “feminine” but ppl now have a problem with them wearing something related to ballet? do they not realise how hypocritical this is😭😭
For me the marketing for girlgroups changed a lot over the past like 5-8 years and for boygroups it just didnt. Attention to detail and variety in concepts is also just more noticable in girlgroups right now Also 3rd gen bb are still going strong, sure the top 3rd gen gg are still here and putting out music but not that much
i think another reason would be the themes they speak about in their music. i think there’s 4 archetypes of boy group music: 1. lovely songs 2. overly masculine 'noise music' songs 3. cute/ bubbly songs and 4. songs without proper context (the lyrics are just interpretations) since we’re speaking about KPOP i think a lot of boy groups just lack the fun aspect at times. a song like supernova doesn’t need to be understood, its fun. boy groups tend to focus on a theme which can make a song a little boring imo. its either super predictable, or you dont understand it all. i feel like for girl groups there’s some sort of harmony between production and lyrics, whereas for boy groups one always overshadows the other which results in songs not being memorable. this is not the case for all boy groups ofc, but i think people just want to see a little more risky stuff from boy groups. they are restricted by the themes they follow in their music.
I'm glad Yeonjun felt comfortable to express this, but, really? GG had everything stacked against them for the longest time and are still fighting to be taken seriously in an industry rampant with impossible beauty standards, sexism and p3dophilia. Sure, they might've discussed their struggles to fans, but they didn't ask for pity or expect the public's sympathy, they just worked hard and carved out their own path for as long as they could. Look at groups who were at their peak and still disbanded, like Loona, who then fought their way back to making music and successful music at that. Meanwhile, bgs generally have more freedoms, not only as artists who can produce and write their own songs, but as individuals, while gg members can write whole albums only to never be credited and never have their songs released at all and still have to go on ice diets. So if bgs aren't succeeding on their own, idk, maybe hire some women? And a PR team while they're at it, to work on improving the image of SK musicians in general after the whole Burning Sun scandal
Since I don't wanna support Hybe, however I do listen txt casually, I don't check their MVs or concept photos so I had no idea that they used some "balletcore" inspo and I think that's really cool!!
Girl why just support your favorite group hybe us just a cooperation it gives money to it's subsidiaries who manages their own groups 😂😂 are you a kid or just dumb
i think alot of ppl talk abt this topic but it comes from a I hate ggs or a I hate bgs pov so it’s kinda biased. bgs have definitely been struggling to generate interest outside of a fanbase especially in korea. now i do think that that bgs are definitely more restricted in what audience they appeal to and either way receive backlash for when they present masculine or feminine. like ppl criticise bgs for being manly but then will also criticise them when they do something that breaks gender norms so they can’t win either way. also sonically, there was a period of time where many 4th gen bgs rebranded with exactly the music that the detractors claimed they wanted and it didn’t work for any of them plus their old fanbase who enjoyed that sound also left them so it was back to nugudom (e.g. cravity) and the groups who stuck to the ‘noisy’ sound instead of abandoning it saw more success. (e.g. skz) Now I use the term noisy loosely bc kpop stans call anything with an interesting beat drop or gritty production noisy. I’m convinced ppl would cause sherlock by shinee noisy if it came out today just bc of how loudly jonghyun was yelling into the mic (jk, kinda…) Anyways back to bgs vs ggs, I think there’s positives and negatives to having a bigger fanbase vs the general public, one being how fickle the gp is. They’re veryyy quick to turn on a group immediately, just think of how beloved itzy and le sserafim were when they first debuted and how quickly ppl turned on them, whereas bgs can usually return from a bad release or 2 unscathed or a controversy due to sheer fandom loyalty which is something the general public isn’t. For example illit, riize and zb1 have all had a bad encore stages in their recent comebacks (not that any of those groups are bad vocalist, they’re all human ofc ppl slip up from time to time) but guess which group was ridiculed for it the most, you got that right illit, and guess which groups song got a pak when they just debuted, illit. So yes more success on charts and with streaming, more hate and a smaller fandom is thing ggs are more likely to have. but that’s nothing new really it just so much more obvious in 4th gen bc there was usually outliers to this. Now I love both bgs and ggs and there are alot of weirdos on both sides of the spectrum, but I do think if you listen to groups and music with an open mind you’d probably find atleast one group from the opposite side you like. For example I got my gg only friend into onlyoneof and I got one of my bg only friends into dreamcatcher 🫡
I think you summarised everything so perfectly. can I also add the point that kpop stans don't tend to look for new music on their own besides title tracks so that's why bg music feels stagnant to them
dang, you explained it perfectly I see bgs kinda as a straight line, and ggs as a wavy one-- both ggs' success and failures are magnified compared to bgs
@@seeyouspacecowboy4738 This right here!!!! From what I've noticed, BGs title tracks tend to follow a set theme or lore but their B-sides are way more experimental but people generally don't listen to B-sides and just judge by TT then go ahead and say all BGs make same music. Like, I'm predominantly a CaratZen, a SVT and NCT fan and the difference between title tracks and B-sides is so different, especially with NCT that everytime someone claims BGs only make noise music I just burst out laughing.
@@seeyouspacecowboy4738This only-listening-to-title-tracks thing really threw me when I got deeper into Kpop. What do you mean you have never heard XYZ from their third mini album? When I saw an MV I liked from a new artist, I listened through their album next time I went for a drive or walk. That's where the fun songs are.
From what ive seen GGs are more popular but BGs have very loyal fandoms so it seems like they’re more popular but almost every K-pop listener knows the top GGs regardless
I think a factor that might be pushing this debate/convo forward despite the situation not really changing as said in the video, might be the lack of "THE huge dominating boygroup" in addition to Kpop becoming extremely oversaturated. Not having THE Bts or THE EXO for example while Blackpink or Twice and others coexist as well with them, while there are more groups than ever and the general public definetely opts for the gg, makes it seem like out of nowhere bgs flop. I feel like it's just a matter of more groups debuting and suceeding when gg are the trend while Ateez, Skz, TXT and so might not be on the level of dominance and cultural impact on the gp of the previously mentioned. But this isn't new and I also thought the artistic restrictions of bgs are what's holding them back. (However, the stigma or "misandry phenomenon" MANY stans in the community hold isn't to be ignored; these are the people who complain and generalize boygroups while being the first to mock or disregard them and their efforts when stepping out of the box; how do we expect them to defy what's established for them when I'm always seeing people calling them gay, zesty, cringe, unoriginal or copycat, "not as good as gps" etc?)
Good points. Culturally it’s okay to generalize about BGs as noisy, or girly etc but I think we accept a variety of sounds from ggs and don’t generalize about the music (no genre is off limits to girls and we don’t generals saying all ggs are . . .” However I do think there could end up a GP line ggs might cross in concept but that would likely be an issue for only the one group. The industry still has a lot of misogyny-and I think there is still a strong preference for very young looking, very thin girls and I think Kpop Stan’s tend to turn on and love on to the newest shiny thing with ggs more often than BGs.
I got your point but "misandry" doesn't exist it's impossible to exist under the patriarchy, what bg members can suffer from is homophobic hate like u said
@@aphrwodite it can and does exist tho; by definition according to several dictionaries & platforms it's basically feelings of hatred (or dislike/ingrained prejudice/contempt etc) towards men. Just because it's not a systematical form of oppression doesn't mean one individually cannot be a misandrist, which clearly some may seem like they are with the statements and claims they share but oh well
@@aphrwodite No need for these answers that make no sense hon; 1.- I never mentioned my gender and 2.- I didn't discuss the impact of misandy on men. But you talked about misandry as a system while I differentiate it as an individual phenomenon, and now that you can't argue with this you resort to ignoring what's actually being discussed and talking bout things I didn't even say. And you staying in denial about a certain phenomenon isn't nobody's problem but yours, no matter how many comments you post in this comment section acting as if your pov and non objetive/logical reasoning is the one and only fact 🤷
THANK YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT THIS!! i’m glad this topic is being talked about more often, because as someone who’s mainly a bg stanner, it’s super tough to see them get big sometimes (and it’s even tough for midliner and nugu groups, even when their own companies aren’t treating them well), but i do hope that one day a shift will happen and it’ll help boy groups become just as popular as girl groups. plus, it’s pretty devastating knowing so much many boy groups that tend to debut already or become popular predebut disband a bit more and slightly faster than girl groups as i know TONS that have gone through that route. what i’d also like to add for a reason is that i guess most stans have that sort of generalization & stigma when it comes to boy group music as well? like you mentioned in the video, the typical noise music you’d find for a regular boy group or that dark and loud concept that they put on, which would usually drive some stans away (especially most girl group stans). it’s really unfortunate too, because there’s a lot of variety when it comes music for boy groups but most people either don’t really care that much or know about the usual noise music and stay away from exploring the different genres unlike the girl group side.
I want to reply to this. The shift that you are talking about happened when girl groups came on the forefront. If you look at it, from the beginning of kpop in the 90s till 2018/19, it was boy groups who were leading in terms of popularity, sales, even charts and everything. If you do a little research groups like TVXQ, BigBang, Suju, Shinee, SS501, Exo, BTS and Seventeen would literally top charts. Its only in the last 4-5 years, for the first time, its girl groups who are in the forefront and more culturally impactful. Lets enjoy this first for some more time before we want a shift. Boy groups have had for decades. Lets see girl groups leading the generations for the future.
I think the generalizations about BGs are part of the problem. Whenever toxic gg Stan’s get involved they start yapping about BGs all sounding the same or describing their music as “pots and pans” etc. when most BGs have diverse discographies with a variety of sounds and genres (often more so than some ggs). GGs often do create music that sounds more bg in style but nobody calls it noisy (and a lot of it charts just as well as the ggs other songs).
@@kimdaniel2601 oh definitely! it’s something i’ve been used to hearing over a countless amount of times and i definitely get how the double standards within such noise music tends to affect BG’s more often than GG’s. then again, it really does suck sometimes knowing how most ppl tend to not dive into the different genres of BG’s as often as GG’s.. both sides on the spectrum are so good too so it really is a shame. :(
@@RITIKAGHOSH-jj8ji I agree with you. Since kpop 1st gen, Boy groups have always been the forefront runners in almost every aspect of the industry. The shift towars GG have been happening since a few years back and I hope Girl Groups also get to be album top sellers and increase their fandoms even more.
before watching the video: just by the title i already agree like i used to stan SO MANY bgs etc and i was a HEAVYYYY stray kids fan but i just lost interest. i still tuned in to their comeback last night but i wasnt as excited as usual. girl groups however are going strong i love girls … generation
Except I don’t think BGs have bad music and ggs better music. I actually do not like most of the current, popular trending ggs songs. Better/worse is opinion. Ggs are definitely releasing more popular songs with the GP so have better streams-but popular doesn’t mean the music is better it just means it’s more popular. I do think BGs have more hardcore fanbases but some ggs do too. But I think a lot of ggs outside of BP are starting to develop stronger fanbases.
@@yes-ds8zu your comment proves many of the points. You buy into the “all BGs sound the same and make noisy music” idea. It’s one thing to say you personally think gg music is better but you cannot say it is objectively better because better is opinion not fact.
While I agree with your statement that more ggs are known when it comes to kpop of this generation, it is actually historically proven that most bgs do better long term, because they don’t rely on the general public so much, that is if they continuously build up their fanbases. While a lot of them aren’t pulling crazy numbers on domestic charts, they’re not doing terrible either and kpop fans always put more value on domestic charts when bgs are very successful overseas. Once they earn the loyalty of fans and they stay, they are turning general public into loyal fans basically which is a way safer option. Ofc it means, they rely heavily on their fanbases but at least they can be certain that those people will stream and buy their stuff instead of a fluctuation which is arguably worse in the long run. Additionally this leads to them being able to sell out concerts more likely as well and concerts and albums generate the most money. I do want to say that this year personally has not been the best year for kpop ggs though. I don’t want to shade anyone but just as an example, neither IVE, nor Gidle (even though it was still pretty good), nor Itzy and even Lesserafim have achieved the same results as they used to. Because general public tends to jump between girl groups and they always look for the next big thing. A lot of them have their peak during their debut days and then it tends to decline while with bgs, they either get bigger over time cause they’re fanbase is growing or they at least have a small and loyal fanbase so even smaller groups can survive. While we might not hear from many bgs because they are smaller and get less attention, it’s more likely that they still exist after a while than another small gg. I also want to add, that there are a few bgs from the 4th generation that are doing quite well and some from the 5th gen like Zerobaseone is also charting quite well in Korea because the 5th gen bgs use the softer concepts that the public likes. I think though that things are changing and I can only speak for myself as a Stray Kids fan but they have been getting more successful each year and I’d say they are arguably the most successful 4th gen group out there right now and people usually don’t acknowledge that because they only look at domestic charts but even those have improved so much. They went to the Met Gala, met huge celebrities, collaborated with Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman on their new mv and have a soundtrack for Deadpool x Wolverine, are embassadors for LV, Versace etc., Felix walked on the LV runway, they were booked for 3 major festivals this year including the main act for Lollapalooza, had 2M people just in queue for their Japan dome tour, their mv views can hold up well to ggs, they won international awards like the Billboard Music Award, VMAS etc., charted 4 of their albums straight to 1 on the Billboard 200, had multiple songs on the Hot 100 and the list goes on. Not to mention that they are the most followed and awarded 4th gen group including multiple Daesangs and with the recent comeback they are charting quite well on domestic charts too. These are just examples because people only ever talk about domestic charts and that is not a standard for success in my opinion because Melon was proven to be fraudulent, by JYP entertainment themselves. They exposed them which is probably also why JYP artists have a hard time on that chart and people forgot about it and it was swept under the rug. How can we trust a rigged show? Sure we can say international awards are rigged too, but at least when we vote for an award and win, it’s more likely we know where the votes came from because it is sort of trackable. If you mean that a lot of bgs are still relatively unknown to the general public compared to ggs, then yes I agree with that but we all know why, I just don’t think it makes them less success as long as they can sustain themselves, compared to a gg that relies on general public for support because that is a moment and a moment that can pass. So I’d say gg’s are more popular for a moment and bgs build themselves over time. No hate to anyone btw, I listen to ggs and bgs, even really small once and I noticed that ggs usually have one or two major hits (like the smaller once) and then I never hear about them ever again and with small bgs, they might never have a hit but all of their releases are solid and they survive because of their fanbase. It’s sad that gg stans often think that bgs are not worth it but they are the once who can survive longer, to me that is success.
@@liaa.4474 you expressed exactly what i think about this topic. to think that skz charts really well on all domestic charts besides melon.. kpop groups struggle to chart on flo, the hardest kchart, meanwhile that is so easy for skz💀💀 really makes you think!!!
Skz has also been doing pretty well this cb in S.K with the Chk Chk boom mv becoming no.1 on yt trending. I think they might continue this streak of becoming more popular both in S.K cuz of a deal they have with yt for yt shorts cuz its really popular there and also internationally with their music being in the deadpool movie. The music might even help them domestically cuz Elemental was doing rlly badly as a movie, but when word got around in S.K that the director of the movie was Korean like the movie started to do rlly well.
Very true everything you said. It’s shown that with BGs like Exo and BTS and Seventeen that the fanbase is always loyal. Ateez has seen such tremendous growth, they were one of the first to perform at Lallapalooza and now on their world tour across the U.S. Stray kids as well has grown so much it’s crazy to even look at and I don’t even stan them like that. I know that TXT will catch up but the marketing by Hybe is atrocious.
Or to answer this question proposed in title, i think its ultimately due to attractiveness of the work and the people that impacts the relevancy of girl groups in a more upwards positive manner
Girl groups are just more simple to listen to. There doing better in that regard. Bg still have a big Fanpase in generell, sometimes more then girl groups
You just had to be there for 2019 boy with luv era because there were quite a lot of people were losing their minds because of the pink and or pastel colors, outfits, sets and styling. You would think BTS k*lled someone and kicked their dog😭😭 Its a lot of internalized misogyny, homophobia, racism at play here, because they're not just men but they're asian/korean men. Intersectionality is a thing. But y'all aren't ready for that convo!
The irony is that exactly this soft and "feminine" bubblegum pop concept is what lead them to global mainstream success. They just overdid it a bit with Permission To Dance. My Love-Hate relationship with that song is intense 😆
A couple things. Women make up the majority of the spending power in fandoms like kpop, however the best of both worlds is being able to appeal to both women and men. Many commenters have mentioned there's just a lot more stigma for straight men to like boy groups than straight women to like girl groups. I also wanted to mention that, although I don't have any concrete numbers for this, with the string of recent scandals like burning sun and other male idols who have been exposed to have been predators, some potential boy group fans may feel disillusioned or worried that someone in a group they like will turn out to be like that, so it's "safer" in a way to like girl groups. Finally, the type of music made really determines how much the general public will tune in. The boy groups we have been seeing chart better are ones like TWS who have a very bright and palatable sound. Whereas a girl group equivalent to what a lot of boy groups experience would be Dreamcatcher who have a very niche sound, but they do it well and it appeals greatly to their fanbase such that they still manage to sell well and tour well despite a lack of charting.
For me, personally, I stopped following boy groups because of the burning sun scandal and Kris Wu's case, for example. You never know with these people. Seems like every couple months a bg member is exposed as being a predator/groomer. I just dont want that kind of negativity in my life.
@@mar7534not everyone is being condemned. But it’s just bringing awareness to the table that para-social relationships with bgs should be taken with a grain of salt. You have no idea what kind of person they could be behind the camera
@@turtleme4811 That's right. But that's not what you said in your first comment. And that applies to all the people you'll meet in your life, not only idols.
TXT is a group that are always ahead of time when they release their music, bc then coincidentally almost majority of kpop groups follow similar concepts that remind me of txt from years back. I could confidently say txt has an influence on their generation and the 5th generation. They are releasing music that people could resonate with and in the future I feel like people will respect them even more because their music doesn’t cater to the kpop “sound”. Their music is so different from bts, and as a group discography comparison, TXT has the most wide range music discography appeal I’ve seen in a boy group in 8 years of being a kpop fan, they do variety of concepts but it doesn’t feel overwhelming because theirs always a sense of story plot and message they try to convey, it’s something I haven’t even seen in 3rd gen kpop, at least not this vividly and consistently like TXT does it, but I will give points to bts because they convey the message of self love but I feel like bts concept caters to kpop and their music is mostly hiphop, which is unlike txt, because bighit actually makes txt sing to a lot of genres in a way that doesn’t cater to the kpop “sound”, in fact, I feel like txt’s speciality genre is rock punk genre. If BTS and Seventeen are the only consistent boygroup at the moment in charting, TXT is the runner u, coming close to them because their comebacks always outdoes their previous comeback achievements. They are both domestically and internationally popular, I even feel this sense of decrete like people secretly have with txt despite being a fan from another group which I find funny. For how long TXT have been in the industry, it’s just a matter of time that txt and their music get the recognition it deserved a long time ago, I feel like this is what txt have to go through with fighting girlgroup trends while still being themselves with their music and organically jarring exceptionally well and growing their fanbase. I’m happy bighit separates them from pleasing the Korean public, because it’s a hard fact that the only three biggest music industry in the world that all artists in the world want to chart in is the U.S, Japan, and the U.K Therefore, I never understand why boygroup fandoms want validation from the Korean public and Korean charting when logically Korean charts isn’t as impressive than charting in the U.S, Japan, and the U.K charts. But it does make idols happy when they chart high in their home country try and I acknowledge the Korean fans efforts in charting TXT higher consistently for every comeback but I feel like txt being in the same billboard hot 100 room with Beyoncé, Taylor swift and Ariana Grande this year is more impressive than the Korean charts 😂
And TXT, in fact, does chart in their home country. They are actually the only 4th gen bg that does well internationally and domestically. Actually besides SVT and BTS i think actually one of the only bg's at all rn.
@@5XKXNXA Fr, it’s better for txt to keep up breaking their own record than having a one hit wonder. If BTS and Seventeen are right now the leading bougroups on charts, TXT is the only 4th gen so close to catching up
@@h0neym00nl0ve0 I never said kpop idols don’t want to chart in their home country. Ofc they do, even yeonjun said so but people forget he also said in a documentary that he feels like in this time, even if your chart high, people don’t know who the singers are or most of the time don’t even know what the song is which is different from previous kpop generations where everybody just knew the singer and the songs because everyone regardless of fandom just supported each other and listened to each others music. That’s why I don’t find Korean chart impressive but at least charting high their signifies that you have a place their and acknowledgement from the people. Bts for example, they didn’t become a global phenomenon group by appealing to the korean general public, they did their own thing and fans of foreign countries loved their work and also korea, bts never had to appeal to the Korean public to get to where they are today and it’s something boygroups have always been doing and succeeding at in some level. Which is why I don’t understand why international kpop fans seek Korean public validation when you as a foreign fan giving validation is far more impressive than domestic validation but especially when it comes to charting. I feel like even BTS is a clear example of organic growth, having a very large supportive fanbase with insane power and with the achievement and big events bts did or attended in the U.S, it showed the korean public how impactful of a group BTS is internationally, it’s to the point where everyone in korea who don’t listen to BTS but know them solely bc of their impressive achievements that are constantly talked about in news channels, like there’s nothing more impressive than that, I bet it’s something all kpop groups want a recognition like in the world like bts has, but it all just depends how their company runs them, if the company is just fixated on Korean general public, than we see their priorities but we shouldn’t expect the group having any significance outside their country.
What you said about BTS is just simply untrue btw lol. you haven't listened to BTS discography properly because they're KNOWN for their diverse songs, albums and concepts as a group and as soloists. They've done nearly every genre under the sun. They simply cannot be put in a box They're the ones who made having a universe/storyline from one mv and album to the next mv and album a thing. BU (bangtan universe) says hello. And it expanded so much that it went beyond mvs and songs - they had The Notes released during LY era that came with the album, released books, recently released a tv show, short films during Wings and more. BTS have never catered to the "kpop sound/label/box" that's why they became the biggest artist to come out of SK/Asia and become a global household name. That's why the phrase btspop became a thing in 2017/2018 and it was coined by kmedia (and ofc other fandoms later started saying it for their own faves lol😂😭😭) respectfully you're talking without not really knowing who you're speaking about.
that was a good video just some of my points: 1- misandry doesn’t exist bc women can't oppress men under the patriarchy 2- bg members can suffer from misogyny tho and homophobia 3- for the longest time bgs have dominated the kpop scene and good for them !! but now thats the women taking the lead everyone is complaining lmao no shade but idk i just think that ggs having this one thing for themselves is not the end of the world bc bgs members at the end of the day still got their fanbases and they're selling just fine so why not let the girls win this time?
Having observed kpop since 2014, just want to put in my 2cents wortg of observations. Companies, particularly SM, have and are still trying androgyny in looks & concept since Super Junior, Shinee, EXO and currently, NCT. And they were charting good domestically. To this day, SM boy groups are there amidst the girlgroups. I'd say the shift in preference happened as the Western market opened. A new culture emerged & could have influenced the shift.
From a western perspective I think the biggest factor has just been an overall societal shift. With feminism becoming more and more prevalent, a lot of the potential bg demographic is reexamining their relationship towards men and how they are viewed in society, which has lead to a lot of women and young girls just distancing themselves from male artists. Especially ones who rely on the commodification of relationships. Looking at western pop charts shows a very similar image, being significantly more women heavy than male. Regarding the Korean perspective, I think K-Pop is just an incredibly expensive hobby to really get invested in, especially when the average Korean citizen barely has enough to get by. This is also further reflected in overall birth rates going down within the country due to the cost of living crisis and people overall just not having the time or ressources to put into this type of entertainment. Which boygroups usually rely on more than girl groups. Boygroups tend to be more focused on their own niche and fandom (which comes with a lot of album buying, voting, etc.) while girl groups appeal to mass audiences. Boygroups have the potential to become acknowledged by the gp once they reach certain milestones while it's kind of the default for ggs. I don't think it has anything to do with the music itself or the concepts bgs or ggs are doing or refusing to do. The general public couldn't care less about K-Pop concepts. They will just hear a song on the radio and either like it or not, similar to western audiences. I personally started as someone mostly listening to girl groups, however the last few years have just been incredibly stale from my pov so I have mostly switched to boygroups. I don't really feel allegiance to either "side" though.
While I personally prefer girl groups to the boy groups, back during the second and third generation boy groups had enough character and individuality to make them stick out and make me take notice of them, something current boy groups are lacking, when you saw a group like Big Bang, Super Junior, Got 7 or Shinee you could know each member by their name and each group by their personality, this is why girl groups stick out more ,they still exercise that practice ,StacyC doesn't look or feel like New Jeans ,in the same way as Black Pink doesn't resemble Twice or Red Velvet, somewhere between EXO and BTS boy groups started to become almost carbon copies of each other, losing to a certain extend their individuality ,Ikon was one of the few groups that channeled the older boy group chemistry part of that was because they felt like guys, like it or not if you want to appeal to both market ,the female and male market you cannot ignore that girls will for the most part be attracted to a "manly" boy group ,while a guy will take notice of the boy group if they exhibit some "manly" cool vibes , today's boy groups are trying to play cutesy like girl groups do ,but the mass appeal for that is obviously not there ,and that's not to say ,guys going the cutesy route wasn't done before , Shinee's "Hello" or Got 7's "Just Right" videos prove that they could entertain cutesiness to a certain degree but it didn't define their image, contrary to today's boy groups whom almost act effeminate with every release...in short if they want to gain that sense of relevance they have remember that character and individuality is an important factor to achieving that or at least that's my take on it. Anyway, really enjoyed the content.
i think the itzy-stray kids mitm-sneakers comparison isn't a good choice considering skz has releases like get cool, awkward silence, school life, mixtape gone days, surfin', concepts like that aren't just age appropriate for them anymore
at first i thought that was a crazy statement, but you're so right. their fandoms are so prevalent and successful that its easy for a lot of to forget, but in terms of pop culture and setting music trends, they largely havent been as successful as girl groups in some years. non-kpop stans are more likely to have listened to gg music, recognize some idols, and know things like "it girl" and "main slayer" types of titles. totally agree with the misogyny limiting their reach. concepts get old pretty quickly to the general public, so its everything that ggs are constantly bringing out new refreshing concepts. i think another thing that contributes to boy groups' marketability is their size. bgs are usually pretty big at like 7+ members on avg, and its just harder for casuals to get into them compared to ggs who are usually 4-6 members. even aside from music concepts, i feel like its harder for a lot of people to want to learn more about a group when they have 9 members. i feel like to bg stans its incomprehensible that just 2-3 members makes that difference, but as a casual stan it feels so much more daunting to learn everyone from a 7 member group than a 6 member group. idk what it is but i feel like thats common among casual fans
It's the music. They don't make Bigbang, BTS and EXO levels of public friendly music anymore. Most songs by newer gen bgs target a very specific type of audience, not everyone. Compare that to Bigbang, whose music is so easily approachable regardless of male or female audience. Even their company, YG's 4th gen BG Treasure, wasn't able to capture the general public's attention.
For me, after BTS and Seventeen I really wanted to venture into other groups but i kept finding myself gravitating towards girl groups....their sounds are super diverse..they take risks and they bring new themes and sounds. I don't even need to actively follow them. Groups like Aespa, Kiss of Life, New Jeans, Itzy...they stand out and you want to listen to their sounds Boy groups nowadays just all blend into each other imo... Like you said, for boy groups i feel like i have to connect with them first before stanning their music unlike gg where their songs draw me in first..then i stan later
But I don’t think this can be generalized like this-or at least there are far more exceptions. I became a Kpop fan solely from listening to my daughter’s playlist. I connected to the music long before I developed an interest in the artist. But over and over again three specific artists stood out vocally and musically: Ateez, Vixx, and Taemin (like I found myself asking “who sings this? I like it?” And inevitably it was almost always one of those three. Two of these three are from small companies which draws in how much what company a group comes from influences popularity and not just gender. I chose my favorite artists without any preconceived notions regarding who was popular, who was hot, who was from X company etc. but I do think these things-unrelated to the actual music can be factors as well. Makes me realize the issue is complicated and more like a Venn diagram than direct correlation.
I don’t agree. I listen to both girl and boy groups, and boy groups definitely have more of a louder sound (like gg have a more cute sound) but I don’t find gg music is more diverse or anything. Every group has a different sound regard of gender
From bts to ggs? From one of the best petformers with superwide and quaility discography to lame chipmunks with primitive songs and 0 stage presence? 😅 Well, its your choice, but I will never understand how you can enjoy such an awful group as aespa.
See this is what made me so confused about TXT. As a moa, I couldn’t help but notice the lack of appreciation the general public has for TXT considering they’re everything a gg stan wants. Diverse discography and concepts, creative choreography, talent for days, yet you’ll never see their music video trending or gaining traction TO THE EXTENT of the girl groups. And I do understand that there are many gg fans who stan txt I always wondered- if that’s the case- why aren’t txt receiving their flowers when they do a lighter concept or an upbeat title track or b-side? I have of course considered all the reasons you’ve listed in the video but I feel like there’s still something missing, and like another comment mentioned, it’s simply bighits horrible promotion of TXT. I feel like they could and should be accumulating the same amount of views that girl groups do, or trends on TikTok but for some reason that’s not happening and I think we have bighit to blame. Edit: I say all this not to disregard TXT’s achievements because charting #1 on the billboard 200 albums chart is insane but I’ve realized a pattern in the way they consistently release good music but are not given a huge response as other groups and it bothers me.
On paper TXT is made to be loved by a whide range of people...i just dont get why it not happening...then i see the obvious erasure a lot of kpop fans do towards them and i feel like i might know whats going on...
Aren't txt the 4th gen group with the most songs over 100 million streams on spotify? I like txt too but complaining about appreciation is weird. Their sound doesn't follow trends like gg but they still do insanely well. Let gg stans live. Where was this energy for girl groups way back when
@@min-fel I became a K-pop fan in 2022 so I wouldn’t know anything about “this type of energy” before then. Though ggs are a great comparison notice there’s a reason I mention bighit. For example, Ateez’s bouncy or any SKZ song has become a trend in the past and good for them! They’re talented people as well as the girl groups! However, I noticed how txt have never had this in a sense that their music has never trended to the extent as the ggs or their 4th gen boy group counterparts, which I already explained why I’m confused by that so I’m not going into that again. I think in a live after the first episode of Taehyun’s solo variety show “Reincarnation Academy”, aired he mentioned how the kids in the first episode were all naming their favorite groups or groups popular amongst eachother. They listed ggs and bgs and no I don’t care whether they name txt or not but it was even brought to the members attention that bighit is not the best at promoting them. This is so much bigger than what you assume is a bg stan hating on girl groups, this is about bighit and their treatment of txt and it’s something moa have been talking about for a while so if you don’t understand that might be why.
one thing is true though: since bgs have stronger fanbases, they almost never try new concepts, while ggs literally learn every single thing just to try to make it.
To me, as an old kpop stan, a lot of boy group recently have the same type of sound when it comes to their music. Newjeans and Aespa have a very unique sound and concept, personally when I look at the current groups they all seem to have the same styling and noise music/badass concept. The only group that used to be a tad more 'experimentative' in 4th gen was NCT but their recent release haven't been as creative recently. I think the main issue is there is an overwhelming amount of group that fit in the same exact concept, meaning, if you stan one why would you bother with another one. I loved the fun concept that some boygroup had, like Just Right from GOT7, or Mansae by Seventeen are my biggest examples, but no agency appears to want to take on this concept recently You also cannot ignore the fact that many people have learned about the overwhelming misogyny of South Korea and with the burning sun scandal,as a girl, it feels 'safer' to stan the girlies as their worst scandal could be like, dating? which many don't even see as a scandal.
as a black kpop stan the worst scandal for a gg is definitely not dating 😭 like as a ex mamamoo fan, I wish what they did was just dating but blackface ? 🫠
male celebrities these days are finally getting called out and exposed for literal violent crimes so I think the burning sun scandal ruined many male celebrities careers and unfortunately that means it ruined many associated with them.
I think another reason is the shift of audience. Back in 2nd gen and some of 3rd gen Girl Groups usually focused on attracting men with more cutest concepts. While now more Girl Groups have female empowerment as a concept and target more towards women, even when they are doing cute concepts they still are more targeted to girls. While Boy Groups have stayed relatively the same for years. Most boy groups have the same “manly” concepts that target to women. I’m not saying all boy groups are the same cause that’s not true. But a lot, if not most of them, have that same sound to them as they did back in 2nd gen and even 1st gen.
Someone suggested that the Burning Sun Scandal might have ruined a lot of the trust the general public could have for male idols right at the start of 4th gen.
One thing I find very frustrating is how people say that 'all boy groups sound the same' and this is a huge misconception. It's not just because 2 bgs release songs with the same sound that everyone is doing it, there's a wide variety of sounds and concepts that bgs do, but most people aren't interested in giving them a chance (especially when it comes to they are nugu groups that have songs that release more bright songs, but are overshadowed by more famous groups). that's just what I think
I follow a bg that has a wide variety of music. Every now and then, they drop a title that isn't stereotypical and it typically gets NO traction. So the next few albums, those songs are bsides. Then, they try again--nothing, so back to the bside for those kinds of songs.
@@choujimi Misandry isn't real, there's no systemic oppresion of men, it doesn't exist. There are many ways in which men can face prejudice through the lenses of toxic masculinity or homophobia, but misandry is not in any way comparible to or the "opposite" of misogyny because women as a societal group do not and cannot oppress men.
@@Rachel-sm7ymI think in this video essay they use the term misandry to describe the effects men face from the patriarchy and the limits of a “manly image”.
@@choujimi Part of what may be missing is a lot of this comes from homophobia (and anti femme sentiments) some fans have the belief that “members don’t actually want to wear those fits” or it’s unattractive in terms of their straight y/n fantasies when it comes to skirts & softer outfits & it’s all stylists/management forcing it. They couldn’t possible want to present that way
i haven’t watched the video yet, but my opinion is *drumroll* misogyny! (and globalization): misogyny both towards the idols themselves, because of the longstanding stereotypes linked with boybands: “ew boy band members are gay and girly and wear makeup,” and specifically in kpop “they wear girly clothes and act feminine and look pretty ew”. but also towards their fandom, being usually mostly teenage and young females, deemed as obsessive, emotional, hysterical and thus cannot possibly have opinions on good music and taste, “they’re obviously there just because the boys are good looking,” “women can’t enjoy the actually good music”. so the members “can’t actually be talented”. globally, the boyband’s curse is that they’re seen as lesser artists because they appeal to a female audience (mostly) and big female interest makes anything immediately second class, regardless of actual talent, artistry, hard work, etc. it’s just getting more and more prominent because of the globalization of it all. adding even more brands of misogyny to the mix, more stereotypes, more opinions. where as for a girl group it’s seen as more natural because “girls move in packs everywhere” anyways, close girl friendships are so much more acceptable globally, and them acting cute, girly, sexy, powerful, etc, doesn’t go against the standard image of what a girl behaves like. so it’s okay if it appeals to women and men. my point is, kpop boy groups in practice just go against some social constructs that cause people to reject and downplay them. it happens to young male artists in general, just look at all that bieber had to go through and change to be accepted as an artist, by men…. in this world, male validation is what actually matters in regards to when some thing is deemed as worthy. see how much better male kpop reactors do than female reactors? yeah…. that’s also the reason the majority of reactors for anything is male, their opinions have actual weight. the need for that male validation from fandoms is a symptom of a bigger issue. i live in korea, and imo, here it’s still business as usual. apart from the bigger groups (ggs and bgs) appearing on ads and billboards everywhere, most groups are just, there…. unless they’re a girl group doing a cute concept! people eat that up in here, but even then it’s just with the more popular groups and it’s just for maybe a month and then the fever is over. here girl groups might have become more relevant because a couple specific groups, but not to the detriment of boy groups. okay now onto actually watching the video, lol edit: added a missing coma :)
i’m half way through and though i believe your are misusing the term misandry. but i understand what you mean, and it’s fun to see we have similar arguments! i do have to add, girl groups have always done better with the general public than boy groups (in big part because of what we both have stated), whereas boys groups have always depended more on fandom support (which is why they are known to have such loyal and dedicated fans), girl groups have recently gotten more of the later, so i think that’s also why we see that jump in popularity. also i don’t think it’s exactly fair to compare current groups to seventeen or bts. these two are outliers more than the rule. bts because, well they’re the biggest boy group in the world; and seventeen because they are very well loved personalities in general and they’re obviously very good at their craft. but you could have made that type of comparison with girls generation, 2en1 or even blackpink a few years ago in regards to girl groups. groups that big only happen once in a while. right now we just happen to have a couple very successful girl groups, and that puts more attention on other ggs in general. getting into kpop is interesting because most people i know started with only bgs or only ggs, and then, tried out “the other side”… some people don’t even really ever leave their original side or don’t find anything to their taste out there, becoming an only gg or bg stan
I'm so done with kpoppies talking about txt not charting in korea...they are the only 4th gen boy group doing well internationally and domestically. Besides svt and bts propably the only bg in general. Just ONE example for txts korean position: Highest peaks on Melon Farewell, Neverland #6 (bside) Tinnitus #7 (bside) Happy Fools #8 (bside) Devil by the Window #5 (bside) Deja Vu #10 CYSM #5 Sugar Rush Ride #2 they charted their whole mini album Temptation in the top 10. Their latest album Tomorrow charted as a whole on Melon again while getting high spotify streams for all tracks again. I need yall to stfu and stop putting them in the same pot with other 4th gen boy groups.
And they always do this without proper promotion. They debuted their track Open Always Wins with 791k streams on spotify. I bet yall didnt even know about this song because the promo by bigshit was 0 and it still did well. This turned into a rant i didnt even wanna have but kpoppies cant shut their mouths so why should i.
I understand what you mean. Everyone does group txt and other boy groups together but truly no boy group(at least in the 4th gen) is really doing it like them. Their sales and charts will forever impress me, however, I made my own comment about their lack of appreciation from the general public. Because although they chart well and are well known they do not have the same level of recognition as the girls groups and that’s something me and many other moas have noticed. Like I’ve rarely ever seen a K-pop idol do a TikTok to TXT’s song unless it’s with them, which is so weird because they’re popular enough and chart well enough so why is this not happening? Of course there are other examples but I don’t want to go into it cause it’s a lot but glad we can all agree bighits lack of promotion is really the problem here.
@@_harley_1288 i absolutely agree! They are above other 4th gen bg but still not appreciated enough! If bighit promoted them everywhere like the did in japan for chikai now they would be so so much bigger...
@@5XKXNXA For real! The way Hueningkai went viral for his cover in Japan was amazing! The promotions they get in Japan are great. I wish bighit kept that same energy to promote them in other parts of the world. Like how do they expect txt to grow when they have only ever promoted in two continents!??
As a boygroup stan who doesn't really enjoy (most) gg music (with a few exceptions like pinkfantasy and dreamcatcher)...I would hate for bgs to follow ggs in terms of sound. Not saying they're musically bad its just not for me. Therefore... I'm perfectly content with the current state of things minus the bgs being bullied for stuff like the ballet shoes
boygroups don’t have the pressure to make music that the general public will like the way girlgroups do and that could be a double edged sword. on one hand, there are boygroups who just keep releasing the same formula because the fans will pay the bills either way so why try harder. on the other hand, they have the freedom release whatever they like (no matter how good or bad it sounds).
TXT being in the same room with Beyoncé, Taylor Swift and Ariana grande for the billboard artist 100 for 2024 is always gonna be more impressive than korean charts.
They aren’t lacking in Korean charts either, actually they’re the second most streamed 4th gen kpop group after gidle and their Korean fan base is very consistent
that's so true! they are doing so well, i feel like people are living in some alternate reality where txt don't have fantastic results across the board.
did you skip the intro or smth? at least have some respect towards your idol's wishes and goals. a balanced success is what's important. imagine saying it to his face that domestic success doesn't matter just because the kr gp just can't quite get into his group 💀
I watched a video explaining how, with patriarchy still being the unfortunate foundation of our society, it means it is subconsciously written that anything typically "masculine" is the default for all humans. Femininity is simply a deviation from this, and this is why people have such a reproach towards men expressing traditional feminine ideas. For example, it is widely accepted for women to wear trousers (pants), but it is nowhere near the same for men having the ability to wear skirts. How come? If we have been expressing equality for the last however many decades, why do people look down on men for doing this when trousers are seen as a unisex clothing item now? It is because of society's inability to handle femininity for these reasons. Women have always been tied to femininity, but now we are trying to unify genders it is clear people don't like femininity on men as they do masculinity on women. As another example, there is a pandemic within the younger generation (especially boys) of them being defensive about being called gay, for the same reason of feminine deviation from a societal default. Most find it embarrassing to be found outside the default, it's human nature. This ties in with the fact that it means female idols have such a large way to express themselves and a concept, as they are less bound by the need to live up to toxic masculine standards, unlike men who are shamed for even putting on make-up. Female idols are mistreated by patriarchal standards in many different ways, but the way these standards fall on typical men in terms of feminine self-expression is prevalent.
Yeah and men are more likely to support girl groups if they do for the looks and youthfulness of female idols and are not attracted to men so they don’t bother supporting boy groups bc I think people are attracted to them first before music. Ever since I got married and I’m Demi I don’t really listen to boy groups anymore plus I’m much older and like girl groups more since it be weird to bias young men 😂. That’s just me tho I like a few boy groups music but j don’t Stan them. We can’t assume people like kpop for just the “music” since idols do way more then jsut sing and dance
_KPOP BOY GROUPS NOWADAYS:_ Solid fandom composed mostly of women/ gilrs _KPOP GIRL GROUPS NOWADAYS:_ General Public casual listeners , they can attract both genders (Male/female) to their fandom
This is exactly why my interests shifted from boy groups to girl groups. You are absolutely right about the difference in attachment to the group itself. With ggs I don't really care about the artists themselves, only about what they put out. But with bgs I watch their additional content like shows, interviews and so on. 8 have been in kpop since 2014 and the shift is very noticeable now. I love TXT and am really sad that the boys are being criticized for their experiments. Their earlier concepts like nap of a star and can't you see me are one of the best in kpop. As a SHINee and EXO fan, TXT's music appeals to me a lot and I would be incredibly sad if they lost their musical identity. Frost was not it, sorry. These boys are made for the softcore, emo rock and songs like the killa 😂 To this day, I think that Tell me what to do was SHINee's best title song. EXO's winter albums are absolute masterpieces of the industry SM in general isn't afraid to experiment. Chewing gum by NCT dream was that fun gg coded bg song And let's look at the most successful group of kpop - BTS. Their concepts have been very diverse over the years and that's (with a ton of marketing, of cours) is the reason they got so popular. I hope companies realise what we actually want to see and make some more interesting concepts for bgs in the future
Heavily agree on Chewing Gum! That’s one of the outliers where I think NCT was able to fully meet the concept of the song where it was. At the very least it shows that high concept development is not an impossible thing for boy groups to do. Same with TXT and BTS; I also hope we see more concept work like this in the future!
I would say that this is also happening in the American and Latin music industry. Literally in the last year alone the main artists that have released music that has charted and maintain cultural relevancy are almost if not ALL women. There are men that have done well but not to the same level. Sabrina Carpenter, Chappell Roan, Victoria Monet, Beyoncé, Charli XCX, Karol G, Emilia, Tyla, Tinashe, etc….these are the people that you will be reminded of when you think of 2024 pop music. Aside from Kendrick Lamar and Bad Bunny, I have not seen a male artist be even close to the same level as these women for years in terms of relevancy, charts, and cultural impact.
The title made me think at first...are you kidding me? Are you joking right now? Is this a prank? Who in their fucking minds would say this? I think its actually the opposite, although boy groupss don't get as much as popularity in terms of cultural relevance, but i think boy groups generate more fandom and community power and will continue to most likely to continue to get even more support as most of boy group's fandom consists of teen girls/ younger 20s women with a shit ton of time and money (either thru their own money or family money) on their hands
I agree! With the type of support and community that boy groups cultivate, I really don’t think things like chart positions should matter so long as the members are making and performing the kind of music that they want to release
Yesss! That's why in social media marketing, brands prefer to keep a more tight knit social community that also have a high engagement rate for this exact reason :DD
For me, I just don’t have the energy to invest in 5+ boys and their charms. Like, I wish them success, but I don’t want to be crushing on ANOTHER boy group.
Honestly we wouldn't have this talk if people wasn't so obsessed about kcharts and put them on a pedestal. In other aspects (tickets sales power, western popularity and charting, albums sales) BGs dominate. Look on Twice, they don't chart on top any more, but their tickets sales power is definitely bigger than those groups that are on top of Melon chart. The GP relevance that GGs have is very fickle, look on IVE, they tried new concepts and sound and it did worse than previous comebacks (both charts and music show win wise), GGs might try different concepts, but not evey will be liked by GP, while BGs can make music they like and still make a lot of money. I think we all know that GP generally like softer sounding groups, that is why SVT, TWS and Riize do well on kcharts and Ateez and Stray kids do great on western market.
@@ichi22ldes Not sure if big groups dreams about being just top5, everybody wants numer 1. Just like in sports after some time people remember only the winner. But that wasn't point of my previous comment, my point was that genral public isn't loyal and heavily follows tends, one day you are the #1 hot group of the moment, but that could easilly change. That is why having strong loyal fandom is more important and gives the group longevity.
Super and Maestro also charted on Melon..where are these soft songs? As soon as a group is popular over there they dont give af about what the sound is like. Also baddie, sheesh, supernova and super lady...very soft songs indeed....who are people trying to fool with the soft song excuse? So many examples that prove this is just an illusion .
@@5XKXNXA I wrote "GP generally like softer sounding groups", not "GP only likes soft songs", there is difference between charting and being #1. Out of the songs you mentiones only Supernova charted at #1 on Melon and out of all Seventeen songs only God of Music achieved this. Very powerful song indeed, not soft at all. Also good that you mentioned Super lady, what songs from that album charted #1? no it wasn't Super lady, it was much softer sounding Fate. If they don't give a fuck about the sound, then where is Stray kids on the kcharts?
I absolutely agree that’s also rooted in misogyny. Kpop male groups wear makeup, costumes and seem to have large female audience. And anything feminine and that young girls like I’ve noticed are especially more scrutinized. I’ve seen men in the west criticize groups like BTS for not being “masculine” enough which is so toxic and restrictive. On a personal note, I’m strictly a girl group girlie. Not because I hate men. But girl groups are how I was introduced to kpop and I’ve just been with the girls since then. Besides Ateez, I’m not really a fan of boy groups. Not because I think they’re inherently less talented. That just hasn’t been the activity I’ve interacted with a lot. I feel like a I can relate to other girls and women in gg (to a certain extent of course. Idk know them irl) and I like the variety of music that girl groups can offer. My music taste is very wide (excluding country music yuck), and I find that girl groups and female soloist provide such a wide range of music styles and concepts and it’s so fun. But I’m also open to being fans of boy groups. I just haven’t connected with them as much as I have with the girlies (except Ateez)
Just curious-why do you think Ateez is the only bg you’ve connected with? What are they doing that appeals that other groups aren’t (asking as an Ateez fan myself but I’m not super into most ggs).
@@kimdaniel2601 Good question! Honestly, I haven't thought too deeply about it, so I'm sure as I think more about it, it will become clearer later on. It's almost like they sucked me in. I saw a short clip on TikTok of San during of one of their Fireworks(I'm The One) performance, and I deadass couldn't stop thinking about him. Not just because he's absolutely beautiful. But his entire performance captivated me he was that good. I saw this clip around the time they were teasing Guerrilla. They released that short teaser, and I instantly knew I would LOVE the song. I was counting down the days for the comeback, and this was the first time I've anticipated a comeback from a group that I had (at that point never heard of). So as I was waiting I went back, listened to their catalog and watched old performances and interviews because the wait felt too long. They perform like every perform is their last. They're so talented and so passionate that I just really really fell in love with that. The music was fun, and they honestly felt genuine (not that other groups aren't). I just really really love their passion, how hard they work, how they strive to be even better, how they perfectly they work together, how funny they are. It felt like their performances give a sneak peak into how much they care about this because they just have so much passion for it, and it's so inspiring and almost hard not to root for them. There are of course very very talented boy groups out there. i have a couple boy group songs in my playlist. But Ateez just made me really really want to root for them and know them deeper as a group. I was really interested not just their music but their story. Their passion, talent, great music and great and funny personalities just made me keep checking them out and before long I was a fan. If there are any boy groups, you think I would like, I would love the rec!!
@@yaya_97 I fell into Kpop solely by listening to the music. So Ateez was my first group. The ggs I like are more harder edged groups like Pixy, Craxy and Dreamcatcher. My other favorite BGs-Vixx, P1Harmony, Taemin, Shinee, and EXO. Oh and I have a lot of Seventeen but more their older music than newer. I’ve been discovering BAP and GOT7. I honestly find I’m more into the older gen BGs vs more recent. But I find I am most drawn to BGs with good vocals, harmonies etc. a lot of newer groups don’t do that for me in a way I like (gg or bg). But I totally agree that there is something about Ateez I don’t find in other groups. Their performance, creativity etc. but I also don’t think I’ve found a group where the whole discography is no skip. VIXX comes the closest (and I think outside of EXO have some of the best vocals for BGs of their gen).
@@kimdaniel2601 I love Drramcatcher!!! Their one of my ultimate kpop groups! I can definitely see what you mean! I think NewJeans, Twice and StayC are groups that I like with close to a no skip discography. I got into kpop towards the end of 3rd gen because of BlackPink and Twice and my girl group love just increased from there.
im kinda rooting for boy next door to shake things up and also, for some reason, i feel like The Boyz has some potential too basing on their older releases
From what I personally have observed as a boy who listens to mostly girl groups, from what I've seen is that girl groups seem like they have more like "types" of music covered. Like a gg could have an empowering song, and then a sexy song, and then a cute song, and so on and so it feels like I could listen to one artist and have such a variety of concepts whereas with boy groups, it feels like they have a much smaller range. Like from the songs that are really popular from boy groups it feels like they do like "oh i'm so sexy and hot and you want me so bad" or "im a rebel and im jumping off buildings like im in an action movie and you still want me so bad". I do wish that bgs had more freedom and i love that some groups like txt are doing softer concepts and are trying to break out of the "stereotypical super masculine man" box that men are automatically put in. And I would be way more interested in bg music if it wasn't just the same "I'm super hot and sexy and strong and manly" that the majority of the bg industry has done kinda forever. Also i love how the large majority of the people in this comments section is respectfully giving their opinions and there isn't anyone being rude about it and stuff like every other social media platform lol
4:18 I mean, Stray Kids do have quirky, fun & silly songs, but I do get your point. (Though one of the silliest fun songs I've heard is Emergency by Day6, like boy groups and bands are still very able to do these type of songs. It all circles back to people and the industry restricting how boy groups should be)
I agree with most of what you're saying in the video. I've been a kpop fans since 2013, so I remember the time when boygroups were definitely more popular than girlgroups overall both internationally and in Korea. The shift seems to have started with BlackPink. BlackPink, and the majority of girlgroups that came after shifted their marketing strategy to attracting women either more so than men or equally as much. Unlike before when girlgroups were mostly marketed to men. In my opinion, this is a massive part of what's caused this shift. There is also the fact as you mentioned, that girlgroups are very varied nowadays, you find a lot of variety in girlgroups that you don't really find with boygroups. It's funny though because in my opinion that was essentially the other way round before. 2nd Gen boygroup concepts and sounds used to have way more variety than they do now for example. That's just my thoughts though.
I think it's mainly cause majority of bgs are less interesting than ggs. Alot of companies refuse to move on from 3rd style title tracks. The only 4th bgs i can think of that's talked about outside fandom is riize and they're very much on trend right now. Ps. Just to clarify i don't mean in terms of concepts but sonically, the gp wants softer title tracks but the majority of bg fans don't so there's a disconnect
Except I listen to a bg that has an extremely diverse discography and some of my favorite tracks are their softer ones. I think this is a great example of the false narrative that all BGs sound the same and all they do is make “noisy” music. If you believe this myth then all you’re going to notice is the music that confirms the myth and not actually pay attention to other songs.
@@kimdaniel2601PREACH! Boy groups drop noisy titles because they get more attention, but they have a lot of fantastic bsides. People need to actually listen to albums before generalizing about a whole album based on their titles.
@flaggov6949 but that's the thing- the title track is supposed to attract ppl to listen to the whole album. If the tt can't do that then they either promote a good bside or just give up lol.
@@RUKA_BABYMONST7R Their softer TTs do not attract as many new fans--that's why they go back to the harder ones. Maybe it's because people who like softer songs skip bgs because they assume it'll be hard, but their companies are choosing TTs based on the data. It's a catch 22.
the only boy group that is in the same category as aespa and nj is riize, im surprised they weren’t mentioned at all considering how huge get a guitar was and how relevant wonbin and literally every member is rn in sk
I think the way misogyny plays a role in boy group irrelevance is the way the "general public" has always viewed bgs as being marketed towards teen girls, and thus, they shouldn't be taken seriously. And this is also why Korean men don't like them either. They think bgs are lame for trying to appeal to women instead of being more masculine and appealing to men. And dare I say some of it is internalized homophobia or misandry because some dudes will obsess over the tiny, pretty, "twinks" but be hyper critical of the more manly dudes. I've noticed this is especially true of western men. (For context, I've been living in Korea for 4 years and have asked my korean guy friends about this)
Something that i find interesting is that the boy groups that do well in the korean charts/public seem to not be as popular overseas?.. specifically the 4thgen/5th gen boy groups. Thats why it feels like bg aren't as relevant for us. groups like riize, tws, plave (5th gen) & tbz (4th gen) are some examples of more popular groups in kr. Its really interesting for tbz especially, because it doesnt reflect their popularity internationally. txt and zb1 I think are more balanced in terms of popularity domestically and internationally.
I think some examples of songs that went viral in kr but are not receiving as much love overseas are: tws- plot twist, plave - way 4 luv rizee -love 119
GG music tends to more viral on TikTok and for trends eg magnetic and super shy. Also, found more cute & soft so it’s used for different purposes eg vlogs, relationships, and softer fan edits compared the noisier sound from 4th gen. 5th bgs like riize are bringing the cute concepts back though.
Idols and labels should have taken notes not only fron BTS but also from BigBang. Like especially BIGBANG! Although BTS became really popular, it was BIGBANG who had a balanced male/female fans. 50/50. They never did this bromance fanservice or try to act nice and cute. I'm not saying that's wrong but if you want respect from men you have to either act like a real man (BigBang) or be super talented they no longer care if you also like to incorporate feminine stuff in your performance and looks (ex. Taemin, Ten). Masculinity is not just about what men wear. It's also about that energy of not being submissive to the fans. Before the fans follow BigBang even though they control their image instead of trying to please fans and be "sexy" or "pretty". They were focused on the quality of their music and created an image that's consistent to that music. Now the label try to cater too much to the fans and trends that the boygroups less feel authentic and become more manutactured cuz their image and style try to cater too much to the fans.
personally i think its simply the lack of competition, relevance depends on competition and drama. I think boy groups are doing very badly when it comes to branding and music variety, we have fresh-summer concepts everywhere, we have “noisy” and dark concepts everywhere, with smaller companies doing edgy music, nothing unexpected from anyone. Is anyone marketing uniqueness the way girl groups are doing? boynextdoor are doing their branding pretty well but it needs to be marketed better, and needs more buzz. There’s TWS doing pretty well in korea, RIZE sometimes ends up being just “an sm group”. People usually say boy groups form fanbases first, then go the experimental way but haven’t they been stuck in the fanbase formation phase for too long now? Or companies might just be too comfortable with the bland boring boy group trajectories since they pay well.
I think when it comes to what's popular with the general public, it will always come down to the music itself. Most boy groups make music that lends itself to being enjoyed in more of a performance context than just listening casually. This goes along with the common marketing strategy that is applied to these groups which prioritizes fanservice above all else, because that is the easiest and most efficient way of gaining fans in their target demographic (hormonal teenage girls). Girl groups on the other hand don't really have a choice but to target the general public due to them not having as much access to that demographic and the streaming machine that comes with it. There are plenty of examples of songs throughout kpop (and general pop) history that fall in line with conventional masculinity standards that were also successful with the general public (Mirotic comes to mind). The difference between a song like Mirotic vs whatever Stray Kids and Seveteen are currently putting out is that Mirotic was written with the intention of being a catchy and digestible pop song, while most of Stray Kids' title tracks are performance pieces that are meant to overwhelm you with a spectacle. Spectacles can gain you lots of fans, but they don't really lend themselves to cultural ubiquity the same way that a simple earworm and comforting production does.
Honestly haven’t watched the video yet but I feel like girl groups have always been more popular than boy groups with an exception of bts and some of the first kpop boy groups.
I wasn’t aware of the systemic context that has been tied to the word “misandry” -
In this video, I used it as a term that only refers to “a distaste or hatred for men,” but by the end of posting this, I definitely agree that the underlying issue behind a phrase like “be a man” ultimately comes from a hatred for non-masculine behaviors, and thus can be more appropriately considered a form of misogyny at it’s base; this is what I was trying to get at with the criticism over TXT’s styling in mind, but without knowledge about the full context of what misandry means socially, my use of that word makes the argument I’m trying to make not very clear. I apologize for this!
Glad you pointed this out I was listening to the video hoping someone would tell you about the context of the word
More than this or anything said on video, I think boygroups aren´t as popular as girlgroups because of vocal diversity and harmony in each group. The last time I heard a Rizze song I thought it was a Seventeen song, even when SM had a wide vocal range in each group!
Did anyone hear the beautiful contrast and harmonious voices in 1st and 2nd gen? Since 3rd gen the rhythms and voices have been more repetitive but kept the attention, but nowadays it's just simple and not interesting.
To make the situation worse, the most known groups in 4th onwards have members that don´t offer unique voice tones because they offer visuals more than anything (Ex: Enhypen). It's obvious there are a few exceptions as Ateez but it's not the majority
Just see boy groups in Jpop, they're until now not more popular than girl groups many years before, so I don´t know, maybe no or maybe yes it's a process
@@bunnylae6702 i try to listen to more bgs but i only attached to ateez,idk maybe i came from 3rd gen bg which is more diverse in vocal and not just about being visuals 🤦
It's also just the fact that girl groups have the advantage of having men and women as their demographic while boy groups usually just cater to women. Not to say these boy groups don't have fan boys, of course they do. But the amount of men, straight men to be exact that are willing to stan boy groups is comparatively low to the amount of women who are willing to stan girl groups. Especially with the rise of female empowerment as the concept for girl groups songs through the current generations, girl groups have attracted their fair share of female audiences while the boy groups are stuck with their love songs that are directed towards women.
is that postman from the hit game IDV by any chance?
This is honestly perhaps one of the main reasons and a constant one throughout decades. And it's a shame cuz several boy group members have been outspoken about wanting to have more fanboys, but at the same time companies still don't know how to make a boy group have massive appeal with every demographic. I see a little bit of change with groups like SKZ and ATEEZ. They're probably the only ones who have a bigger percentage of male fans than any other boy group.
Keep in mind though that during 1st & 2nd gen, boy groups still managed to attract a sizable male fanbase. 2PM for example had a huge male fanbase for their cool breakdance concept, Big Bang for their rap & swag (something to look up to for young men). Nowadays BG's are created with the female gaze in mind, with few exceptions
What female empowerment concepts are female idols bringing????
I still don't see it. And I Stan a lot of girl groups. I think we are starting to use that word too loosely nowadays.
@@donttalk372 Gidle's songs "wife" and "nude" they talk about female empowerment!! stan gidle btw 💕
i think 3rd gen was when boy groups were on top, and now its the girl groups time to shine, its like a pendulum
And I can see bgs coming back a little bit, too! TWS, BoyNextDoor, and Riize (but _especially_ TWS) are leading the wave of bgs that are capturing public interest. Of course, I don’t see gg interest falling off, but it never really does.
Nope. It wasnt. Only BTS, Wanna One, 17, Exo, and occassionally iKON and Winner (sr if i forgot anyone else) have hit songs. It was actually gen 2. Gen 2 boy groups shaped the entire industry Kpop back then. It started with TVXQ, then Big Bang, Super Junior, Beast, Infinite, Shinee, 2PM, 2AM. Each one of them wrecked the charts, sales and even daesangs, regardless of their company backgrounds
@@namanh8439 NCT Dream, Day6 (retroactively), GOT7, Pentagon, BTOB, NU'EST, and N.Flying all had at least one domestic hit single. I agree that 2nd gen was the peak for bgs in both domestic charts and Korean pop culture relevance, but the 3rd gen boy groups were still far more relevant than 4th gen bgs have been.
@@gemmamoon5998 i totally forgot about got7! Sorry. But Nuest debuted during the time gen 2 was in his heyday and they did actually nail a superhit (Face) at the time. And then in gen 3 they kinda faded until Produce 101.
@@gemmamoon5998 yeah but the chances of these groups replicating hits after hits like the way gen 2 did were very slim. Those groups u mentioned had hits but inconsistent and except for BTS, Wanna One and Exo i believe few of them frequently won any daesangs or digital awards
4th gen ggs have weak fandoms but lots of general public attention and 4th gen bgs have strong fandoms but no one outside their fandom cares about them
True.
Also I fear that a large group of bg stans aren't that interested in the music unfortunately
That's true like stray kids fans are always saying that they are making a huge impact and their music is really popular but no one knows them outside their fandom
@@exceptionallydistinctivedi481i think a lot of bg stan’s (as someone who is both bg and gg) get into the group in a parasocial way bc their videos are so insane and fun and they have a lot of personality whereas ggs are expected to be calmer and more professional in their videos and interviews or they get hated on for being pick mes and shit, so it’s harder for some people to connect with their personalities and then they turn to bgs instead even if the music sucks lol
@@gojowilldie703I wouldn't agree with that. I personally know a handful of people that aren't stays, but from time to time I see them jamming to skz songs. There are not k-pop stans too.
kpop is just like fashion. fashion for women is so versatile that they are able to enhance and/or reinvent themselves in however many styles they like. but with men... fashion can be so rigid. there's only so much you can do and you eventually go back to shirts and pants formula.
hopefully a boy group comes out and shakes up the kpop scene this new generation.
love this point!! i find that styling also presents an advantage for ggs (albeit not as significant compared to music ofc). ggs have gone somewhat “viral” or more appreciated for fun/interesting styling, whether negative or positive, while compared to bgs they often only go viral if they wear a crop top lol. it’s so boring but it’s so hard to break out of that with how male fashion is perceived
No because if you want to do a royal concept, guys have like 2 possible outfits while girls have so many things to choose from.
It’s literally like dress up with gg
This is an interesting analogy
also with makeup! i see SO MANY shorts and tiktok that are themed like “wonyoung lip tutorial” or “chaewon blush tutorial” or “female idol hairstyle tutorial”. there’s just so much variety with girls while guys just do eye wings occasionally twice a year and all their fans go RIOT about it lmao.
or you could go with a knee length tartan skirt and get slammed online
iykyk
I've always been saying that boy groups depend on fan power and girl groups depend on the general public. I can only think of one exception and it's day6.
I think for day6 it’s mostly because they’re a band like I’m a gg stan but I still listen to day6, onewe, the rose etc because honestly the music that they make isn’t like most of K-pop songs you hear and also they’re not marketed as hot men or attractive boys don’t get me wrong they’re hot but the main point is that they’re companies don’t try to market them only towards fan girls
I am a new my day, and i like Day6 because of their music talent and live performance, their handsome faces is just a bonus. I often hear their song with my dad and he likes too. I think "band" has their own classification because they are mostly compose and arrange their own songs and of course they plays their own instruments.
DAY6 MENTIONED
@@adellpattyThis! I moved from being a casual listener to a fan mid last year and since I was mostly active and rock/emo/punk band spaces (FOB, Deftones, Paramore, Arctic Monkeys, and Linkin Park) the whole idea of men not liking or engaging in boy groups was foreign to me lol. Ofc I ended up mostly being a fan of bgs. (TWICE, and LSF are exceptions to the rule)
There should be a video discussing the rock/pop-punk to K-pop pipeline lmao.
Despite long hiatuses, WINNER songs traditionally have charted really well in Korea thanks mostly to general public support and because of this they also get invited a lot to variety programmes and TV shows. They did a guerilla concert back in 2022 and 20,000 people showed up, mostly non-ICs (non-fans)
3:19 Honestly that's so stupid. It's not the first time TXT had a more soft look in their styling (Sugar Rush Ride having them in romantic shirts and having glitter in all of their stages, to put an example)
TXT is a group whose concept is heavily rooted in fantasy and fairytales, so their styling reflects that vibe most of the times.
Those people clearly do not care if the styling fits the concept or even bother to think about what TXT's concept is.
It's not the biggest thing but I'm tired of people complaining about "all boy groups are the same" but then having a problem when they deviate of their restrictive idea of what a boy group should look and sound like
SPEAK
So true. If a boy grp goes full out for a concept rather than hopping on trends like afrobeat/amapiano wave due to tyla's influence and success, or other such stuf, they should atleast stick true to their characteristic style and concept also let it marinate as well before hopping to something else e.g. Enhypen has such good concept of vampires going on but due to their creative team being indecisive and greedy executives idiotic decisions are made for them. In terms of portraying concept, they are similar to aespa. But the difference imo is the style & aesthetics. Aespa stays true to their cybercore/cyberpunk/futuristic aesthetics while hybe is just ruining enhypen's unique appeal of classic vampire stuff just for chase of big numbets on charts and money which they kinda fail to achieve bc ggs have been dominating the charts left and right.
bite me was sucha phenomenal comeback was Vampires, aesthetics, supernatural and good arse instrumentals plus can't forget the production quality of that yummy album. It left me hungry for more of this dramatic vampire stuff. I wished they tried dipping their toe in vkei type of music and aesthetics next but since Koreans are still hella conservatives they won't be able to handle that. Sweet venom and next comebacks were underwhelming bc they set the standard of their peak vampirism so high that these recent two comebacks fall flat in comparison to bite me. But still they as a stand alone tracks are pretty good and fun listen but that's it. Like do you getvwhat I'm saying. Chasing big nunbers on charts is gonna destroy your appeal so fast unless you do something unhinged & unique. This is a common problem in kpop. Every grp is obsessed w a concept but fails to deliver and stay loyal to that concept. 3rd gens were the last gen where they stuck with concepts do well and transitioned to another thing gracefully e.g. GFriend, GOT7, BTS, EXO etc.
I legit think all GGs are the same....BGs def have more variety and better concepts
@@kanohaneyes because aespa, I've, new jeans, and g-idle are all the same. They definitely don't have a signature concept that makes them significantly distinct from each other. Just like blackpink, twice, red velvet, and gfriend all did the exact same thing.
@@kanohane this has to be the dumbest take i've ever read actually, can you explain the similarities between Loona and new jeans in terms of concepts, please?
Because boy groups aren't as seen as disposable so older gens can still reign which also means younger boy groups don't get to have a firm foothold. Girl groups are completely different and SM is a good example of how much they invest in Red Velvet compared to Aespa. The way Pledis under HYBE handles fromis_9 that debuted in 2017 also speaks to this. The fact SNSD debuted a year before Shinee but are barely active compared to Shinee says a lot. All of them are mismanaged but the gender difference here is stark. You see all the time of fans "dreaming" of a 2nd gen girl group to reunite like it's some wild fantasy but there's still more 2nd gen boy groups around that have never left (2PM on JYP, an inactive BigBang, etc).
I see that but also SM isn't a really great example,they always throw their last released group under the bus when they have a new shiny thing...just look at NCT127s last comeback now that they have riize,how EXO began being neglected when NCT started getting traction...like sure other companies maybe but SM has always been a joke overall when it comes to longevity
It’s why you see a lot of small companies debuting a gg for a year or two and managing them well then tossing them aside to debut a new bg
This. More BGs have had staying power, so it's harder for another wave to work their way in.
thisss
This so much! It’s another reason why older gen ggs like TWICE, Red Velvet, and at this point BLACKPINK (I still cannot believe they’re only a year younger than TWICE) who have defied odds and have remained not just active but relevant and fresh are so revered beyond their discography and their talent!
i dont necessarily think boy groups struggle since a lot of them have very solid fanbases but what i have noticed it that they tend not to appeal to trends. i think it’s difficult to word it but a lot of times, 'the girls' just seem to be doing the job perfectly. if you look at the west, boy groups specifically have never really been respected and people put the 'marketed towards female teenagers' label upon them which is very difficult to bounce back from. if you put it into perspective: i think in western audiences for example, groups like blackpink are more respected than bts. i myself encounter a handful of people who view bts pretty negatively because they find them cringey and like you have stated 'want them to man up', whereas for blackpink, a lot of people here follow them on ig and their endeavors outside of kpop so they are generally respected more. i cant really tell whats its like in korea since i am not korean but as a 'western person' i always had this feeling that boy groups will continue to have a difficult time being taken seriously. recently riize is the only boy group i can think of who has been making some waves outside of kpop spaces, probably because of their rather non-chalant and simple approach. other grps are either concept heavy or too predictable which makes them feel a little unauthentic, it doesn’t appeal to a lot of people and doesnt contribute to any longevity or growth.
@@flavio. That’s a really interesting point - it does seem like the “popular with teenage girls” label is not meant to be a good thing, which I think explains a lot of problems with mainstream relevance in itself
And it doesn't help that though BTS has released so many harder songs, the only ones that got traction and notoriety in the US and west were their extremely soft or poppy songs that seem to inflate and "justify" peoples/non fans inherent bias. As a black person myself it has taken me showing a lot of the groups hip hop and r&b based songs to family and friends in order for me to just get them off my back about liking bts and kpop. Especially since so many don't believe that they have the amount of adult and male fans that they actually have.
I know a lot of people didn't like stray kids performing s-cass in the US but I think it was a good thing just based on the fact that it was a more aggressive song which goes against a lot of preconceived notions about kpop and boybands
The west has huge mainstream boygroups before like One Direction, Backstreet Boys and Jonas Brothers. Also bands were also very popular. Even bands that make more pop music like Maroon 5 and Coldplay are famous.
@@vixxexo6855 true, they were very popular but people still saw them as something for teenage girls. There were plenty that didn't see them as real artists until they broke up. In fact it's such a strong view that most people expect boybands to break up and come out with some "real music" smh
Which is ridiculous because there are so many boybands from the past that were popular and had adult fans (Jackson 5, boys2men, Beatles, new edition, temptations, backstreet boys, 4seasons ect.) yet people hear boyband and automatically think"teenage girl fans". I noticed that it's one of the first things that people do when anyone into kpop comments on it they automatically get called a hormonal teenage girl or fatherless child who will develop better music tastes when they get older (and half the time the person saying that doesn't know anything kpop related outside of Gangnam style)
@@vixxexo6855 that is true but i think there’s still a kpop act (boy group) who has yet to prove themselves. i also think the music these groups put out is very different from what kpop groups do, solely because of the language barrier and the different aesthetics/ approach.
It's funny because when I got into kpop it felt like no one cared about ggs which was frustrating because I couldn't get into the boy groups. Anyone I've met in my life familiar with kpop only liked boy groups, target only stocks boy groups albums, only boy groups ended up on the radio (aka bts lol). So I for one am loving this gg Era
i have a similar experience. while i had boy groups that i liked when i first got into kpop but it came to a point where i only liked ggs (among active groups) and i couldn’t get into any of the bgs that were debuting with very few exceptions and everyone was into bgs and i just couldn’t get it. but now we’re at a point where there is a few bgs that i like which is cool.
Exactly that's why its so weird to see bgs whining about them not being appreciated like 3rd gen groups weren't ever taken seriously unless they were boys cause they had "real choreos" and girl groups were weak and could only do cute concepts...I was always a bg stan and now I'm realizing how much of that fanbase has so much built in misogyny,like a girl could breathe near a boy group and she'd get merciless destroyed by the fandoms...this is not misandry,girl groups are just more interesting now,but Bambam saying that it used to be like that during 3rd gen bffr
it was the same for me
i think the difference is bg fandoms are sm more dedicated and theres also more bg fans in the west (assuming thats where u live/are from). none of my irls are gg stans and i find it impossible to meet a gg stan irl (not like im looking for them but there happens to be a lot of kpop stans in my school and from my friend group (also not purposeful lmao).
It happened something similar to me, too! I discovered kpop back in 2013/2014, but since at that time the most relevant groups were mostly boy bands, that was what I could find, but I couldn't really get into them, and the few popular gg weren't my cup of tea. But in 2019, with the rise on the popularity of kpop in the western, I started looking again for kpop groups hoping this time I could find something that could be my style and found groups like Izone, Mamamoo or Itzy, and I slowly started listening to more and more gg, and nowadays I still can't really get into boy groups haha
I think it's also the homophobia koreans (boys and girls) have. We complain that bgs always look the same and boygroupfy gg choreo, but if a boygroup does something too feminine koreans would hate on them. Like what happened with some zb1 members (they were saying they shouldn't act that gay) or people saying feel the pop fits a girlgroup more when music should not have any gender, it's just an art expression
This even makes sense, Koreans have criticized and mocked boy groups (or some members) for acting in a more 'feminine' way instead of the standard masculine image
Form what I’ve seen most male idol get complimented for it. The other day I saw seonghwa dancing nwjns how sweet and people were praising him for doing the choreo as is
@@harinibitla3851 but that's on the international side of the fandom. Also if they casually act feminine from time to time they won't say anything but if they often act too feminine you'll see people complaining. Taerae from ZB1 danced to gidle super lady and knetz said that they prefer his church oppa image more or that he should stop acting too gay bc people would think he is one
@@user-qk4gh6in9m wow I didn’t know it was that bad. I guess that’s one of many problems holding BGs back from experimenting? I wonder what concepts we would have if BGs had the same conceptual freedom as the GGs
@@harinibitla3851 yes they're very close minded. They also don't like when a bg release noisy/dark music so that's why a lot of bg are doing cute concepts now but if they try something new and different it can be labelled as too feminine and a girlgroup should have done the song instead
To be honest many girlgroup fans are also TXT fans! Though i‘m not a Moa yet i feel like TXT is revolutionising concepts for the boygroup sector and are on par with girlgroup concepts! When you talk about concepts and versatility in music it‘s girl groups at the front and TXT as the only boy group for some reason. They‘re too ahead of their time and have been since the beginning. Their trailer film for the latest album blew my mind. I might stan honestly✨
Feel free to do so, you won't regret it 🥰
This might be a reason why whenever we look at korean music charts they are always being topped by ggs and txt as the only boy group doing great on the korean charts 🤔
@@schneeling i‘m a stan at this point haha. I always tune in to TXT but i typically don‘t find myself liking boygroup music nor their personalities. With TXT it‘s different and they deliver every time. They seem genuinely nice and funny too. I‘ll be watching more soon✨thank youu
@@mari_rita it is honestly. The only boygroup i listen to even without staning is TXT. They‘re genuinely interesting in their concepts and their music is amazing and always good even their besides. They go all out every time. They always sneak into my playlists and they‘re the only boygroup hahah
Fr i always see txt with girl groups in terms of charts and most moas that i know that are gg stans only have txt as the bg stan
3:19 as a moa this just makes me cackle bc its the same ppl criticising the balletcore stylings who loveddddd blue hour ( where they wore crop tops and glitter!) and wanted that kind of txt music back again soooo bad (note: txt have consistently had an upbeat song as a promoted/ fan favorite bside every single cb since- no rules, tchftg, happy fools, happily ever after ( tt challenge), isytt ...)
also, isytt is sonically similar to super shy! the problem moas are facing rn is the lack of promotion from bighit :DD i may be biased when i say this but i think txt can truly achieve aespa/nwjns level of public acknowledgement if only bighit did their fucking job! something to note in this regard is that txt's old managerial/promotional team was transferred to le sserafim ( who i semi ult so please for the love of god this is not hating on the girls at all)
i dont know what prompted that decision but as moas we've noticed a marked difference in how txt is promoted both domestically and internationally for a while now, and when that news came out .... yeah
This is so rightt, txt are already so popular and they could reach higher if they are promoted well and its pissing me off because since around 2022 it changed..but they are still doing well though, selling tours ect regardless
@@cosette-angelface I've been wondering about this for a while now. I got into kpop (and txt) at the end of 2022 and lately I see everywhere the statement they don't get promoted right... Was it different before? What changed? I didn't see any problems with their promotion so far, but many people complain about it ^^'
@@schneeling there is difference since 2022, the watermarks and thumbnails of their videos had been changed since good boy gone bad era so they are managed by a different team now ig. And also they arent doing two mvs per cb like they used to before? like tinnitus had so much potential- why didnt they make an mv for it...they are also promoting only for two weeks on music shows..All of this and they still overwork them so badly like
@@cosette-angelfaceOhh, I've been wondering why they only have one MV lately, I guess that explains it😞
thank you for answering ♥
SAY IT, SAY IT LOUDER
If you want a male idol that has a gender neutral concept and leanes into the "feminine style" more, and who is the very definition of artistic ethos, just look at Taemin, he pioneered it in kpop and he's been doing it for YEARS. and there ARE boy groups that followed in his lead.
i dont know how to word it really this is such a huggeeeee topic but it’s almost as if we’re living in a 'girlfication' era. i think everyone on social media gets what i mean… its almost as if 'the girlies' are becoming the standard whereas men are just there lol. im not trying to pity men, i am a guy myself but its like "she‘s barbie, and he's just ken“. i feel bad for them tho because a lot of them have rly interesting music and bsides but unfortunately people dont have much interest in listening to eps/ albums anymore so they stop exploring once they dislike a single from an album
wait ive never thought about this before youre so right
Idk if it's a bad perspective, but personally I think that's okay, like women have been "just there" for ages, it's their time to shine. So I didn't loved when yeonjun said he'd like people to pay more attention to bg bc it's been like that for the past generations (no hate to him, I'm a moa). It's like men don't know what to do now that women have more power and are attacking people (talking about men in general, not groups specifically)
I think even if girl groups are getting more validation and are being recognised in positive light there is also a mass amount of hate and misogynistic behaviour too like literally every female gets hate for no reason and these k-pop fans calling every female idol pick-me too , k-pop has a very large amount of double standards
@@reginagamboav4404women have never been "just there", the only ones who think that way are feminists and misogynists. So stupid.
I don’t really see that. Maybe it’s cause I stan groups like skz and txt, but I never see dismiss them for the girls. Or that there less popular in content boy groups also often stay way more out and get generell less criticized then girls in talent, live singing ect. Boys get it more with music.
Imo as a boy group Stan turned girl group stan a lot of boy groups target a female audience while making music in a genre that one would consider “manly” while girls group have started to target not just a male audience especially since 2017/2018 ( point when i started listening mostly to ggs ) plus they try to appeal to the gp focusing on likability rather than sales and charts. So it’s like the companies are shooting themselves in the foot with trying to reach so high rather than making enjoyable music.
At this point companies should learn that they aren’t gonna make another BigBang that can appeal to young men? Groups like iKON have legitimately gotten close to emulating BigBang’s idgaf energy and they still don’t have a large male audience. I think the boy group industry as it currently stands is just too stigmatized as a “girly” interest for these companies to reach a large teen boy demographic.
No... because male fandoms have always been bigger and spend more because they like to see teens in miniskirts and barely clothed. Its the same with Western artists....how many top female artists/sellers do you see dressed in next to nothing vs males.
Also depends on your fandom. I would just say that Ggs and their 'female' stans make more drama and conflict thusfore garnering attention...I have not seen the male stans dragging other GGs, and as far as music..its all the same repetitive cutesy shiat made to go viral on Tiktok...nothing further matters for the girls...Their knows exactly what they're marketing..
@@kanohane There are absolutely fan wars within boy group _and_ girl group fandoms. EXO vs BTS was as much, if not more, drama than a lot of gg stans are stirring up. As for whether male fans of ggs stir up drama, of course they do, too! We don’t know the faces behind stan accounts, and a lot of the rage-baiting people on gg twitter could very well be men. I agree with you that misogyny & objectification play a major role in why ggs are popular among young men, but you’re leaning into a bit of misogyny yourself by claiming male fans are less dramatic than female fans. Unless you have quantitative evidence on the gender divide in fan wars, most of what you’re saying is anecdotal and possibly based on your own internal biases.
@@kanohane Just because you haven't seen the relentless misogyny and sexism that female idols are subjected to by boy group fans does not mean that it doesn't exist
I actually love boy group music, they shouldn’t change their sound to appeal more. Then they would have to make songs like buter, dynamite
1. People (men) denigrate anything women/girls enjoy- romance novels to boy groups.
2. There's a metaphorical 300lb gorilla taking up a LOT of boygroup space. I think for casual fans, in many cases if they want to hear boygroup music they're gonna listen to BTS or its soloists (which as an ARMY I totally get, the music is great and there's a lot of variety). In this metaphor SVT is the 200lb gorilla.
3. I've had more success introducing non-kpop fans to boygroups over GGs, maybe because most of my friends prefer harder sounds & especially more athletic choreo (GG choreo leans more towards "fun to do" than "wow that's amazing I could never" because of limitations placed by wardrobe expectations- dangerous to jump around in heels!)
yes wardrobe, and most of them have to weight so little to be accepted by public, i can't imagine having to be skinny AND dance crazy choreos every damn time
The choreo definitely turned me off ggs when I first got into ggs. A lot of it felt stereotypically cutesy.
I've had more success with introducing GGs to friends. I found that people think BGs can be "cringe" or "too loud" which is just preference but yeah.
My take is because sexism and ageism towards female groups and loyalty towards boy groups. I believe bg fanbases r generally much more loyal to their idols and this isnt inherently good. When groups from previous gens like BTS, Seventeen, Exo, Shinee are still here it is very hard to persuade their existing, predominantly females, to experiment new boy groups. It is the opposite for ggs, esp those with predominantly male fans: the sexism and ageism of Kpop enforced this idea that the younger the groups are the easier it is for them to cater to the male gaze. Thatz why groups with lots of fanboys like Twice, Gfriend started to lose their mojo, paving ways for newer, younger groups. Men just simply switched fandoms when they saw something younger. This is why we have this trend of having more minors in ggs, giving this illusions that these girls will stay young for longer and thus maintaining their fans for a longer time
Another reason is the music. Knets themselves all complained about how bgs music sounds so weird and i believe this is a conscious choice if it became a pattern. For what reason idk? But im guessing it was because since Korea has a strong connection with female-oriented industries like cosmetics and fashion, they need to give good songs to ggs to earn public recognition and therefore easier for them to strike lucrative deals with brands
This sexism/ageism displays so weirdly in Kpop.
Even with military service interrupted their careers, some of the groups with the most longevity are BG.
I would love to see more groups like Mamadol 😊.
When I first started getting into Kpop, I strictly preferred BG - which was weird since my non-kpop music preferences were usually women. In the last couple of years, I've started to appreciate GG more. I'm not sure if it's just exposure or that GG songs have become a little lower pitched (I have tinnitus which is sometimes irritated by higher pitches).
@@Maria-uv9pd i believe it has something to do with Asian social hierarchy and patriarchy. Men are more dominant and r usually coupled with women younger than them, so fan girls regardless of their ages/generations dont have a problem stanning their oppas even if the guys r growing older (as long as they r not like uncles). In that sense, men are less likely to be attracted by older women so they tend to grab onto younger female groups.
However, ironically, when fans of both genders grow up and get married, it seems like itz more acceptable for women to stan kpop idols than for men. Stanning kpop for grownup men can be seen as immature, and a trait of infidelity while the same from women is much more forgivable and perceived as a natural habit
I think fans of BTS and seventeen are there for the music. As they should. Both have very distinct sounds. It is a big weird to say these fans refused to move on to younger groups because the older boys are still around as if this is some weird breeding program instead of about music.
@@HailToTheMeep yes the music brought them there, but is it all to keep them staying? Not sure abt seventeen but for BTS their musical style changed consistently and drastically that "old BTS" and "new BTS" became the new terms when fans talked about their preferences of BTS' music. And if music was all they care about, why bother bashing V for uploading Mcdonald ? 🙏.
Agree tho that their music is much more public-friendly than most other groups.
And yes Kpop has always been a breeding program. So is the entire music industry. One person was made to replace other. Nsync was made to replace Backstreet Boys, Jlo was made to replace Mariah Carey (ahaha), bla bla and itz weird but better blame it on audience consumption
@@namanh8439 Coldplay’s music changes through the decades as their experiences changed from young men to husbands and fathers and older men. The Beatles changed their sounds in the latter parts of their career as they grew older and the 1960s became the 1970s.
Their fans grew up with them, some left some new ones came. That’s music.
V? I have no idea what “fans” you are talking about.
ARMY? What part of ARMY. The fandom is HUGE and HIGHLY DIVERSE.
“Old BTS” and “New BTS”? So? You want 35 year olds singing about having crushes with high school girls? Creepy.
Kpop male idols BEFORE BTS are considered finished after military. Their company stopped supporting them and if they are lucky one or two of them are picked to be a soloist where the company can invest less money as they throw money at younger groups.
BTS is in the military and they are just starting.
You think that’s not the music? You think that’s just because of their fandom? You just said BTS music changes. So their fandom changes. Some have left exactly as many said why not go somewhere else. They did. They are called kpop fans.
Others stayed. Because their music can’t be found elsewhere unless you are into indie and alternative music whether rock or hip hop or pop. They continue to listen to their indie music while BTS is in the military. Not kpop. And since BTS members kept releasing new songs they are enjoying those too. Others from outside of kpop came in to check them out. Like I did during DYNAMITE. And as some kpop fans left more GP came in. They don’t vote for MMA or MAMA or whatever other awards innever cared about before and suddenly cared because of BTS. But they are here for the right reasons. The reasons which will give BTS a chance to do this until they are 50.
Why mention Backstreet Boys? Why mentioned One Direction?
You are still thinking boyband and kpop while BTS has never fitted into that category and is not growing in the same trajectory.
You are still talking kpop when the rest of us are talking serious music bands with high music credibility even if not to everyone’s tastes.
You should be talking Coldplay. Genesis. Beatles. And Queen.
🙄
As somebody here mentioned: People say, that all boygroups are the same yet when they deviate from the average "boygroup style" (whatever that means) they complain. Youp, people don't make sense somethimes...
This reminded me of the backlash TEN from NCT have gotten after Yves Saint Laurent fashion show this year for wearing a top that is considered more of "feminine" shape/style (turtleneck top with bare shoulders). He was called "gay", "girly", "not enough of a man" amongst many other really nasty things. People want to see something new from boygroups yet when they do, they face backlash. If girlgroups wear men's clothes, they are praised for being bold, edgy, cool, etc. (Tomboy). Damn, how much I hate this double-standard.
PS: sorry for my rant
PS2: english is not my first language, sorry for any mistakes
PS3: thank you for the video and to all of you reading: Have a nice day!:)
I feel like 2ne1 is to be thanked for this. When 2ne1 debuted, all the girl groups had the same feminine and innocent concept while they had a more badass or i could say "manly" concept. They also got a lot of hate because of that but they managed to outgrow it and became the legends they are today. We are yet to have something like that with boy groups. Tbh yg artists in general have had so much impact in the kpop industry especially artistically.
What yeonjun actually meant was totally for the kside and more specifically told for other 4th gen bg like ateez enha skz are entering billboard charts while they have never probably enter top 100 or top 50 of melon
Exactly.
He wasn't talking about txt...
I also think misogyny actually is a major factor here. Girl groups and female idols are treated very differently as they age compared to boy groups. Ggs often struggle to keep fans long term and lose popularity once they hit a certain age. Female idols and celebrities in general age out of the spotlight in a way men do not. This means that girl groups of prior generations lose their popularity in time for new girl groups to emerge and take their spot as the main girl groups the public is looking at. Boy groups struggle because they have longevity. Seventeen and BTS are dominating the boy group scene in the same way they have for years, where as groups like Twice and Red Velvet have shifted when it comes to their position in the public’s view of Kpop. They are not necessarily unpopular, but they are not the dominating and almost over shadowing forces they used to be, which allows new groups to become those dominant forces.
Y’all are saying all bgs sound same/noisy. A few years back, there wasn’t a popular opinion like that. But as Skz/Nct/Ateez got more famous and successful with their so called “noisy discography” other bgs followed the trends. Just like now, a lot of fans saying “new gg releases sound same” “nothing special” tiktok music” “easylistening western music” “boring song”
Y’all gonna change sides in 2 years by saying all ggs sound same as they follow what’s trendy😃
This too😭 i mean they already change their fav gg like dirty underwear so who is surprised? Newjeans all of a sudden makes boring songs to them after gushing over how fresh their music is for 1 1/2 years. Its nearly comical atp
@@5XKXNXA so true
@@5XKXNXAwait are you dissing nj or not? I’m sorry I can’t tell 😭
@@harinibitla3851 no no i dont i am dissing the kpoppies who change their opinion on a group every day😭 one day its the best group ever, the other day they are enemy no 1 or just not interesting anymore because they found a new toy...this isnt meant specific about new jeans but about groups in general
@@5XKXNXA Ahhh I see, you make a valid point tho.
The fandom thing wigh boy groups (specially big groups like skz, txt, etc) are likely to hsve great longetivety due to loyal fandom unlike ggs whi attract general audience that turn their bsck on them after few years (itzy is a great example) it's sad but it is what it is.
damn you spit absolute facts but it still hurt 😭
@@galaxysally9661 fr 😭 like itzy could've been SO MUCH bigger.
This is exactly how I see it 4th gen gg blow up really quickly and go very commercial but it doesn't last long while most boy groups have the loyalty of a fanbase over a long time but at the same time they kinda only have their fanbase and not the same commercial success of a lot of 4th gen gg
That’s because the group relying on a general public isn’t a thing. The general public 90% of the times (with the exception of few organic hits) listens to what they are presented by the companies (so basically the highest bidder). For example, songs on the radio or on the curated playlists, on tiktok, etc. are mostly there because the company paid for it (radio is mostly payola, spotify playlisting is made by people at spotify based on their khm khm “expertise”, so on). So basically what the general public listens to is what they hear a lot from media and what is presented to them as successful - it is pure marketing. And once the company decides to stop the cash flow going into group promotions those groups become unsuccessful. The only way for a girl group to be successful in the long run is for them to not be just a product and build a fandom. But the thing is, fandoms are built with sincerity not only in character (a lot of girl group members have very good personalities and seem like genuinely nice poeple) but also in the music which girl groups lack. There is a reason why groups like BTS and SVT have huge and devoted fandoms even tho they aren’t conventional in a lot of ways. Even if every once in a while their song doesn’t hit or has a weird production, or they have a voice crack or fall on the stage it doesn’t matter because most of their music that they perform is their craft and is a part of their story, depicting things they want to say. So a bad song written by the member is still more valuable to the listener than a souless hit that sounds good. Becuse there is intention and it is a part of a journey. People will genuinely support the groups that make a huge emotional impact on them because that is the thing that sticks with us in the long run. A song that doesn’t mean a lot to a listener at one point just becomes background noise. And that’s what happens to a lot of girl group music, even high quality music - it doesn’t stick because it doesn’t feel sincere nor impactful. I feel like at this point it isn’t even sad, it’s what the girlies should expect coming into it without having a need to say something with their music. They are at full mercy of their company.
I do agree. Girl groups could do a concept of them wearing suits and looking kinda masculine and it would be cool (even in real life), but could a boy group wear something that is a little more feminine and not get hate for it? I don't think so.
yeah, but there's a reason for that. Femininity has always been hated on even though it's wanted, and being a bit more masculine has always been accepted. It's not only that boy groups get hate for acting more feminine, it's that being feminine in general isn't as respected as much as being masculine is. We gotta solve that problem first, and show that you can also be strong/respectable in your feminine energy too so that there's less stigma around it.
@@jimams_jamz5518 yeah, it's really sad tbh. Femininity is not a bad thing.
Because those suits are made for female body......
Ask women to wear suits made for men. It will look ridiculous.
Not sure how one's supposed to make "female styled" clothes for male body.
2:33 the phrase "be a man" does not come from misandry at all, just like misandry itself, this phrase comes from misogyny. this idea that men and women need to essentially "be" certain way comes from misogyny. and even talking about the txt example that some people found the new txt concept not as appealing as others because its more "femenine", that could be considered a form of misogyny. i don't understand why people even consider misandry an important factor when it actually doesn't have that much of an impact in society yet. if we want to talk about men not being able to explore as much as women, we need to talk about misogyny and how prevalent it is and will probably continue to be in the future. we need to stop talking about misandry when it doesn't affect our society and probably will never affect society in the way misogyny has, does and will continue to do so.
agreed!
thank u soooo much for this I'm kinda going insane with him and some people in the comments treating misandry like it's a real thing 😭 and worse some of them are women thinking like that
@aphrwodite yess!! i think some people see a lot of girl group fans hating on boy groups and think that it is misandry but don't realize that they are like that to other girl groups as well
exactly!
in my opinion misandry is formed from misogyny
one thing that I think that it's so curious to me is that in first place it's not real that BGs aren't charting, but the groups who are charting in Korea aren't having the same impact in the international fandom, like Way 4 luv by PLAVE and Plot Twist by TWS are in the top songs in streams in melOn and they went viral in tiktok Korea, but internationally no one cares about them... Meanwhile the groups who get more recognition from the international fandom like Stray Kids and ATEEZ in korean charts they don't have good results
But the thing that it calls more my attention is that this is what happened in the past but with GGs: Apink, Girl's Day, Secret, AOA and others were groups recognized for being monsters in the korean charts with 0 international fandom
also even in top groups local and internationally popular we can see the division in how they react to different type of songs: Seventeen the last year released Super and God of Music, Super is the song with better growth in streams of the group in youtube and Spotify being in top 10 most viewed of the last years, in korea went well but nothing exceptional for seventeen, meanwhile God of music was decent in youtube and spotify like they had the international attention meanwhile in Korea was one of the 9 songs in being at the top of the charts and the only one that was released by a Boygroup between the nine
Agree that there is definitely a big division in music taste of the SK gp and the international public. But I think we also need to note that the international public who comes across this music is mostly people who are already kpop fans, very young people who are interested in that music anyway, and beyond them I don't think that people of other ages really ever come across that music. On the other hand the chart defining SK's general public is made up of people of all ages, and they all together will contribute to something charting. Other than these differences a music taste difference is very obvious to me, since as you said, 5th generation groups are not making it to the international market, but just yet I think. Now I can for example say, Skz last comeback was obviously thought through without thinking about promoting on music shows at all. They released the album when no one is releasing anything because of Olympics and music shows being cancelled at that time, which might show that they don't even care about the domestic attention in the end.
This is one of the best comments under this video
@@leppaeti1815 tbf tho I only recently got into some Kpop things because I randomly came across pass the mic and tamed-dashed by enhypen. I ain't the biggest fan of pop (whether Korean, Japanese or western) in general but I had friends back in the day that really like bts.
*I guess there may be people like me, that may like a song and just enjoy it without having to be a Kpop fan or a Stan* in the west (which I don't really consider myself to be but I do like songs but find others uninteresting/boring, jus preference same with any genre hiphop/indie/techno etc.).
Especially with Magnetic by ILLIT, I was seeing that everywhere in gyms memes my friends were sending me (that don't listen to Kpop at all). Some people just take what they like from genre/country style and dip, or come back for another good track🤷🏾♀
(and I may acc like jpop cus of anime openings, but that maybe more indie rock?)
@@togarmah9848 Considering the topic this video is discussing, I guess you're interested in kpop in general as well, I can't call myself a stan either because it really sounds like stretching it to me, but I am generally interested in yearly releases mostly from boy groups. While of course there are people who accidentally just come across Enhypen or Skz for example, and become casual listeners, but when you're mentioning Magnetic, there are way way more people who came across Magnetic just in these past 5 months, both internationally and domestically. Same goes for most of Newjeans songs, they simply have tons more of general public recognition both at home and worldwide. To me this video seems to be referring mostly to 4th gen boygroups, because they have since 2018 had the time to develop, yet the case of their irrelevancy lies actually in their lack of domestic success. None of those groups comes even close to domestic popularity their girlgroup competition has, thus we talked about the division between groups who are popular domestically and those who are internationally. Bang si hyuk recently talked about this group's over reliance on superfans, rather than catering to the general public, and that this was a practice until recently. He then talked about how this practice doesn't pay off well, and I think we can see what he actually tried to do regarding this problem, when we take a look at his new groups like NJ, Illit, then BND and TWS, who all try to cater to a wider public
It's kind of weird because i still remember the time bg stans used to trash gg stans because they has less album sales , didn't use to chart much and like when boy groups were dominating the kpop industry but suddenly every bg stan is so pissed that for once a ggs are taking the lead.
I think it all comes down to what you consider relevance and success. Boy groups do an incredible job of building a loyal and dedicated fan base. A part of that is that boy groups spend a lot of time and effort on creating their own variety content. Like Run BTS, Going Seventeen, TXT To Do, Wanteez etc etc. It’s definitely a different strategy.
To say that boy groups don’t have equally as good of music is a straight up lie. I see so many people write of boy group music as if they all sound the same. Please listen to Adore U by Seventeen followed up with Guerilla by ATEEZ and get back to me if you think that’s the case😂
Literally
yeonjun is so honest and i really like it
I'll be honest, as a straight adult, stanning newly debuted boy groups with young members makes me feel very uncomfortable.
Adding on that I prefer soft or rockish concepts, both in boy and girl groups. I LOVE soft boy group concepts, deja vue was one of my favorite concepts TXT has had in a while as I came across the trailer recently
I haven't really stanned a boy groups since SHINee, they did versitile concepts well, and I find myself prefereing japanese boy groups who embrace both masculine and feminine concepts extremely well. TXT and xrdinary heroes are currently the only boy groups I've really considered following in a long time.
yeah the whole "boyfriend" act is soooo uncomfy...
@@jellymiya3443 Yes!! and it makes it hard for BGs to appeal to men as well.
what’s even more hilarious and confusing abt this is that txt’s temptation album was a double million seller, 1st on billboard etc and that concept was very fantasy, glitter, fairy, and “feminine” but ppl now have a problem with them wearing something related to ballet?
do they not realise how hypocritical this is😭😭
For me the marketing for girlgroups changed a lot over the past like 5-8 years and for boygroups it just didnt. Attention to detail and variety in concepts is also just more noticable in girlgroups right now
Also 3rd gen bb are still going strong, sure the top 3rd gen gg are still here and putting out music but not that much
i think another reason would be the themes they speak about in their music. i think there’s 4 archetypes of boy group music:
1. lovely songs
2. overly masculine 'noise music' songs
3. cute/ bubbly songs
and 4. songs without proper context (the lyrics are just interpretations)
since we’re speaking about KPOP i think a lot of boy groups just lack the fun aspect at times. a song like supernova doesn’t need to be understood, its fun. boy groups tend to focus on a theme which can make a song a little boring imo. its either super predictable, or you dont understand it all.
i feel like for girl groups there’s some sort of harmony between production and lyrics, whereas for boy groups one always overshadows the other which results in songs not being memorable. this is not the case for all boy groups ofc, but i think people just want to see a little more risky stuff from boy groups. they are restricted by the themes they follow in their music.
As much as I respect your opinion I think for intl fans who don’t understand Korean lyrics don’t really mean much.
TXT is one of the only boy groups still making genuinely good and thoughtful music, everyone should stan TXT
FACTS!!
I wanna but idk how
I'm glad Yeonjun felt comfortable to express this, but, really? GG had everything stacked against them for the longest time and are still fighting to be taken seriously in an industry rampant with impossible beauty standards, sexism and p3dophilia. Sure, they might've discussed their struggles to fans, but they didn't ask for pity or expect the public's sympathy, they just worked hard and carved out their own path for as long as they could. Look at groups who were at their peak and still disbanded, like Loona, who then fought their way back to making music and successful music at that. Meanwhile, bgs generally have more freedoms, not only as artists who can produce and write their own songs, but as individuals, while gg members can write whole albums only to never be credited and never have their songs released at all and still have to go on ice diets. So if bgs aren't succeeding on their own, idk, maybe hire some women? And a PR team while they're at it, to work on improving the image of SK musicians in general after the whole Burning Sun scandal
Since I don't wanna support Hybe, however I do listen txt casually, I don't check their MVs or concept photos so I had no idea that they used some "balletcore" inspo and I think that's really cool!!
Girl why just support your favorite group hybe us just a cooperation it gives money to it's subsidiaries who manages their own groups 😂😂 are you a kid or just dumb
i think alot of ppl talk abt this topic but it comes from a I hate ggs or a I hate bgs pov so it’s kinda biased.
bgs have definitely been struggling to generate interest outside of a fanbase especially in korea. now i do think that that bgs are definitely more restricted in what audience they appeal to and either way receive backlash for when they present masculine or feminine. like ppl criticise bgs for being manly but then will also criticise them when they do something that breaks gender norms so they can’t win either way.
also sonically, there was a period of time where many 4th gen bgs rebranded with exactly the music that the detractors claimed they wanted and it didn’t work for any of them
plus their old fanbase who enjoyed that sound also left them so it was back to nugudom (e.g. cravity) and the groups who stuck to the ‘noisy’ sound instead of abandoning it saw more success. (e.g. skz)
Now I use the term noisy loosely bc kpop stans call anything with an interesting beat drop or gritty production noisy. I’m convinced ppl would cause sherlock by shinee noisy if it came out today just bc of how loudly jonghyun was yelling into the mic (jk, kinda…)
Anyways back to bgs vs ggs, I think there’s positives and negatives to having a bigger fanbase vs the general public, one being how fickle the gp is. They’re veryyy quick to turn on a group immediately, just think of how beloved itzy and le sserafim were when they first debuted and how quickly ppl turned on them, whereas bgs can usually return from a bad release or 2 unscathed or a controversy due to sheer fandom loyalty which is something the general public isn’t. For example illit, riize and zb1 have all had a bad encore stages in their recent comebacks (not that any of those groups are bad vocalist, they’re all human ofc ppl slip up from time to time) but guess which group was ridiculed for it the most, you got that right illit, and guess which groups song got a pak when they just debuted, illit. So yes more success on charts and with streaming, more hate and a smaller fandom is thing ggs are more likely to have. but that’s nothing new really it just so much more obvious in 4th gen bc there was usually outliers to this.
Now I love both bgs and ggs and there are alot of weirdos on both sides of the spectrum, but I do think if you listen to groups and music with an open mind you’d probably find atleast one group from the opposite side you like. For example I got my gg only friend into onlyoneof and I got one of my bg only friends into dreamcatcher 🫡
I think you summarised everything so perfectly. can I also add the point that kpop stans don't tend to look for new music on their own besides title tracks so that's why bg music feels stagnant to them
it's always onlyoneof for gg stans😂❤
i love them for this kkk
dang, you explained it perfectly
I see bgs kinda as a straight line, and ggs as a wavy one-- both ggs' success and failures are magnified compared to bgs
@@seeyouspacecowboy4738 This right here!!!! From what I've noticed, BGs title tracks tend to follow a set theme or lore but their B-sides are way more experimental but people generally don't listen to B-sides and just judge by TT then go ahead and say all BGs make same music.
Like, I'm predominantly a CaratZen, a SVT and NCT fan and the difference between title tracks and B-sides is so different, especially with NCT that everytime someone claims BGs only make noise music I just burst out laughing.
@@seeyouspacecowboy4738This only-listening-to-title-tracks thing really threw me when I got deeper into Kpop. What do you mean you have never heard XYZ from their third mini album? When I saw an MV I liked from a new artist, I listened through their album next time I went for a drive or walk. That's where the fun songs are.
I don't know. In Europe, from what I've seen, boy groups are WAY more popular than girl groups...
Same thing in the states.
From what ive seen GGs are more popular but BGs have very loyal fandoms so it seems like they’re more popular but almost every K-pop listener knows the top GGs regardless
@@harinibitla3851 Well I think everyone has different opinions depending on where they come from.
@@vivianedossantoscaipira7075 popularity isn’t an opinion tho?
I’m tired of y’all acting like misandry is a real thing
right because in what world...
It is.
sorry what 😭
I hope that you're joking
stan txt
Real
I think a factor that might be pushing this debate/convo forward despite the situation not really changing as said in the video, might be the lack of "THE huge dominating boygroup" in addition to Kpop becoming extremely oversaturated.
Not having THE Bts or THE EXO for example while Blackpink or Twice and others coexist as well with them, while there are more groups than ever and the general public definetely opts for the gg, makes it seem like out of nowhere bgs flop.
I feel like it's just a matter of more groups debuting and suceeding when gg are the trend while Ateez, Skz, TXT and so might not be on the level of dominance and cultural impact on the gp of the previously mentioned. But this isn't new and I also thought the artistic restrictions of bgs are what's holding them back.
(However, the stigma or "misandry phenomenon" MANY stans in the community hold isn't to be ignored; these are the people who complain and generalize boygroups while being the first to mock or disregard them and their efforts when stepping out of the box; how do we expect them to defy what's established for them when I'm always seeing people calling them gay, zesty, cringe, unoriginal or copycat, "not as good as gps" etc?)
Good points. Culturally it’s okay to generalize about BGs as noisy, or girly etc but I think we accept a variety of sounds from ggs and don’t generalize about the music (no genre is off limits to girls and we don’t generals saying all ggs are . . .” However I do think there could end up a GP line ggs might cross in concept but that would likely be an issue for only the one group.
The industry still has a lot of misogyny-and I think there is still a strong preference for very young looking, very thin girls and I think Kpop Stan’s tend to turn on and love on to the newest shiny thing with ggs more often than BGs.
I got your point but "misandry" doesn't exist it's impossible to exist under the patriarchy, what bg members can suffer from is homophobic hate like u said
@@aphrwodite it can and does exist tho;
by definition according to several dictionaries & platforms it's basically feelings of hatred (or dislike/ingrained prejudice/contempt etc) towards men.
Just because it's not a systematical form of oppression doesn't mean one individually cannot be a misandrist, which clearly some may seem like they are with the statements and claims they share but oh well
@chromaticasforecast4419 if ure a woman and you genuinely think men can be affected by misandry I'm sad for you
@@aphrwodite No need for these answers that make no sense hon; 1.- I never mentioned my gender and 2.- I didn't discuss the impact of misandy on men.
But you talked about misandry as a system while I differentiate it as an individual phenomenon, and now that you can't argue with this you resort to ignoring what's actually being discussed and talking bout things I didn't even say.
And you staying in denial about a certain phenomenon isn't nobody's problem but yours, no matter how many comments you post in this comment section acting as if your pov and non objetive/logical reasoning is the one and only fact 🤷
THANK YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT THIS!! i’m glad this topic is being talked about more often, because as someone who’s mainly a bg stanner, it’s super tough to see them get big sometimes (and it’s even tough for midliner and nugu groups, even when their own companies aren’t treating them well), but i do hope that one day a shift will happen and it’ll help boy groups become just as popular as girl groups. plus, it’s pretty devastating knowing so much many boy groups that tend to debut already or become popular predebut disband a bit more and slightly faster than girl groups as i know TONS that have gone through that route.
what i’d also like to add for a reason is that i guess most stans have that sort of generalization & stigma when it comes to boy group music as well? like you mentioned in the video, the typical noise music you’d find for a regular boy group or that dark and loud concept that they put on, which would usually drive some stans away (especially most girl group stans). it’s really unfortunate too, because there’s a lot of variety when it comes music for boy groups but most people either don’t really care that much or know about the usual noise music and stay away from exploring the different genres unlike the girl group side.
I want to reply to this. The shift that you are talking about happened when girl groups came on the forefront. If you look at it, from the beginning of kpop in the 90s till 2018/19, it was boy groups who were leading in terms of popularity, sales, even charts and everything. If you do a little research groups like TVXQ, BigBang, Suju, Shinee, SS501, Exo, BTS and Seventeen would literally top charts. Its only in the last 4-5 years, for the first time, its girl groups who are in the forefront and more culturally impactful. Lets enjoy this first for some more time before we want a shift. Boy groups have had for decades. Lets see girl groups leading the generations for the future.
@@RITIKAGHOSH-jj8ji i see your viewpoint... thanks for clarifying this for me! i can see why things have been slightly different these days :)
I think the generalizations about BGs are part of the problem. Whenever toxic gg Stan’s get involved they start yapping about BGs all sounding the same or describing their music as “pots and pans” etc. when most BGs have diverse discographies with a variety of sounds and genres (often more so than some ggs).
GGs often do create music that sounds more bg in style but nobody calls it noisy (and a lot of it charts just as well as the ggs other songs).
@@kimdaniel2601 oh definitely! it’s something i’ve been used to hearing over a countless amount of times and i definitely get how the double standards within such noise music tends to affect BG’s more often than GG’s. then again, it really does suck sometimes knowing how most ppl tend to not dive into the different genres of BG’s as often as GG’s.. both sides on the spectrum are so good too so it really is a shame. :(
@@RITIKAGHOSH-jj8ji I agree with you. Since kpop 1st gen, Boy groups have always been the forefront runners in almost every aspect of the industry. The shift towars GG have been happening since a few years back and I hope Girl Groups also get to be album top sellers and increase their fandoms even more.
if you want a boy group that is
diverse, is relatable, and simply
makes good music, stan txt!~ ♡
Louder!💙
Stray❤Kids
@@Laurorap-px1gm?? I like them to but this comment is about txt make ur own comment it just feels hateful
@@lovely-282 TXT is my second favorite BG, but I was a big fan of TXT before I knew SKZ. I'm a big fan of these two groups. I'm a Stay❤💣Moa💙💚💎
@@Laurorap-px1gm this comment is about txt
before watching the video: just by the title i already agree like i used to stan SO MANY bgs etc and i was a HEAVYYYY stray kids fan but i just lost interest. i still tuned in to their comeback last night but i wasnt as excited as usual. girl groups however are going strong i love girls … generation
i love girls... generation too!
@@IoveIie lmao
LMFAO but yes same for me
I think:
girl groups= better music = better charts
boy groups = hardcore fanbase = more sales
Except I don’t think BGs have bad music and ggs better music. I actually do not like most of the current, popular trending ggs songs.
Better/worse is opinion.
Ggs are definitely releasing more popular songs with the GP so have better streams-but popular doesn’t mean the music is better it just means it’s more popular.
I do think BGs have more hardcore fanbases but some ggs do too.
But I think a lot of ggs outside of BP are starting to develop stronger fanbases.
I agree
@@kimdaniel2601 bgs do have mediocre ahh music let's not justify that I'd rather listen to the so called trendy concepts than screeching
@@yes-ds8zu your comment proves many of the points. You buy into the “all BGs sound the same and make noisy music” idea. It’s one thing to say you personally think gg music is better but you cannot say it is objectively better because better is opinion not fact.
@@kimdaniel2601 agreed with everything you said!!
While I agree with your statement that more ggs are known when it comes to kpop of this generation, it is actually historically proven that most bgs do better long term, because they don’t rely on the general public so much, that is if they continuously build up their fanbases. While a lot of them aren’t pulling crazy numbers on domestic charts, they’re not doing terrible either and kpop fans always put more value on domestic charts when bgs are very successful overseas. Once they earn the loyalty of fans and they stay, they are turning general public into loyal fans basically which is a way safer option. Ofc it means, they rely heavily on their fanbases but at least they can be certain that those people will stream and buy their stuff instead of a fluctuation which is arguably worse in the long run. Additionally this leads to them being able to sell out concerts more likely as well and concerts and albums generate the most money.
I do want to say that this year personally has not been the best year for kpop ggs though. I don’t want to shade anyone but just as an example, neither IVE, nor Gidle (even though it was still pretty good), nor Itzy and even Lesserafim have achieved the same results as they used to. Because general public tends to jump between girl groups and they always look for the next big thing. A lot of them have their peak during their debut days and then it tends to decline while with bgs, they either get bigger over time cause they’re fanbase is growing or they at least have a small and loyal fanbase so even smaller groups can survive. While we might not hear from many bgs because they are smaller and get less attention, it’s more likely that they still exist after a while than another small gg.
I also want to add, that there are a few bgs from the 4th generation that are doing quite well and some from the 5th gen like Zerobaseone is also charting quite well in Korea because the 5th gen bgs use the softer concepts that the public likes.
I think though that things are changing and I can only speak for myself as a Stray Kids fan but they have been getting more successful each year and I’d say they are arguably the most successful 4th gen group out there right now and people usually don’t acknowledge that because they only look at domestic charts but even those have improved so much. They went to the Met Gala, met huge celebrities, collaborated with Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman on their new mv and have a soundtrack for Deadpool x Wolverine, are embassadors for LV, Versace etc., Felix walked on the LV runway, they were booked for 3 major festivals this year including the main act for Lollapalooza, had 2M people just in queue for their Japan dome tour, their mv views can hold up well to ggs, they won international awards like the Billboard Music Award, VMAS etc., charted 4 of their albums straight to 1 on the Billboard 200, had multiple songs on the Hot 100 and the list goes on. Not to mention that they are the most followed and awarded 4th gen group including multiple Daesangs and with the recent comeback they are charting quite well on domestic charts too. These are just examples because people only ever talk about domestic charts and that is not a standard for success in my opinion because Melon was proven to be fraudulent, by JYP entertainment themselves. They exposed them which is probably also why JYP artists have a hard time on that chart and people forgot about it and it was swept under the rug. How can we trust a rigged show?
Sure we can say international awards are rigged too, but at least when we vote for an award and win, it’s more likely we know where the votes came from because it is sort of trackable.
If you mean that a lot of bgs are still relatively unknown to the general public compared to ggs, then yes I agree with that but we all know why, I just don’t think it makes them less success as long as they can sustain themselves, compared to a gg that relies on general public for support because that is a moment and a moment that can pass. So I’d say gg’s are more popular for a moment and bgs build themselves over time. No hate to anyone btw, I listen to ggs and bgs, even really small once and I noticed that ggs usually have one or two major hits (like the smaller once) and then I never hear about them ever again and with small bgs, they might never have a hit but all of their releases are solid and they survive because of their fanbase. It’s sad that gg stans often think that bgs are not worth it but they are the once who can survive longer, to me that is success.
OH MY GOD. You put everything together so well 😖 Respect to you fellow stay
@@liaa.4474 you expressed exactly what i think about this topic. to think that skz charts really well on all domestic charts besides melon.. kpop groups struggle to chart on flo, the hardest kchart, meanwhile that is so easy for skz💀💀 really makes you think!!!
Skz has also been doing pretty well this cb in S.K with the Chk Chk boom mv becoming no.1 on yt trending. I think they might continue this streak of becoming more popular both in S.K cuz of a deal they have with yt for yt shorts cuz its really popular there and also internationally with their music being in the deadpool movie. The music might even help them domestically cuz Elemental was doing rlly badly as a movie, but when word got around in S.K that the director of the movie was Korean like the movie started to do rlly well.
Very true everything you said. It’s shown that with BGs like Exo and BTS and Seventeen that the fanbase is always loyal. Ateez has seen such tremendous growth, they were one of the first to perform at Lallapalooza and now on their world tour across the U.S. Stray kids as well has grown so much it’s crazy to even look at and I don’t even stan them like that. I know that TXT will catch up but the marketing by Hybe is atrocious.
Or to answer this question proposed in title, i think its ultimately due to attractiveness of the work and the people that impacts the relevancy of girl groups in a more upwards positive manner
Girl groups are just more simple to listen to. There doing better in that regard. Bg still have a big Fanpase in generell, sometimes more then girl groups
You just had to be there for 2019 boy with luv era because there were quite a lot of people were losing their minds because of the pink and or pastel colors, outfits, sets and styling. You would think BTS k*lled someone and kicked their dog😭😭
Its a lot of internalized misogyny, homophobia, racism at play here, because they're not just men but they're asian/korean men. Intersectionality is a thing. But y'all aren't ready for that convo!
The irony is that exactly this soft and "feminine" bubblegum pop concept is what lead them to global mainstream success. They just overdid it a bit with Permission To Dance. My Love-Hate relationship with that song is intense 😆
A couple things. Women make up the majority of the spending power in fandoms like kpop, however the best of both worlds is being able to appeal to both women and men. Many commenters have mentioned there's just a lot more stigma for straight men to like boy groups than straight women to like girl groups. I also wanted to mention that, although I don't have any concrete numbers for this, with the string of recent scandals like burning sun and other male idols who have been exposed to have been predators, some potential boy group fans may feel disillusioned or worried that someone in a group they like will turn out to be like that, so it's "safer" in a way to like girl groups. Finally, the type of music made really determines how much the general public will tune in. The boy groups we have been seeing chart better are ones like TWS who have a very bright and palatable sound. Whereas a girl group equivalent to what a lot of boy groups experience would be Dreamcatcher who have a very niche sound, but they do it well and it appeals greatly to their fanbase such that they still manage to sell well and tour well despite a lack of charting.
For me, personally, I stopped following boy groups because of the burning sun scandal and Kris Wu's case, for example. You never know with these people. Seems like every couple months a bg member is exposed as being a predator/groomer. I just dont want that kind of negativity in my life.
This was something I have been thinking about the few days this week.
So you condemned every boy group just because something certain men did? LOL
@@mar7534not everyone is being condemned. But it’s just bringing awareness to the table that para-social relationships with bgs should be taken with a grain of salt. You have no idea what kind of person they could be behind the camera
@@turtleme4811 That's right. But that's not what you said in your first comment. And that applies to all the people you'll meet in your life, not only idols.
@@mar7534 right? it's like saying I stopped listening to ggs because of what hyuna has down dating a disgusting man
TXT is a group that are always ahead of time when they release their music, bc then coincidentally almost majority of kpop groups follow similar concepts that remind me of txt from years back. I could confidently say txt has an influence on their generation and the 5th generation. They are releasing music that people could resonate with and in the future I feel like people will respect them even more because their music doesn’t cater to the kpop “sound”. Their music is so different from bts, and as a group discography comparison, TXT has the most wide range music discography appeal I’ve seen in a boy group in 8 years of being a kpop fan, they do variety of concepts but it doesn’t feel overwhelming because theirs always a sense of story plot and message they try to convey, it’s something I haven’t even seen in 3rd gen kpop, at least not this vividly and consistently like TXT does it, but I will give points to bts because they convey the message of self love but I feel like bts concept caters to kpop and their music is mostly hiphop, which is unlike txt, because bighit actually makes txt sing to a lot of genres in a way that doesn’t cater to the kpop “sound”, in fact, I feel like txt’s speciality genre is rock punk genre. If BTS and Seventeen are the only consistent boygroup at the moment in charting, TXT is the runner u, coming close to them because their comebacks always outdoes their previous comeback achievements. They are both domestically and internationally popular, I even feel this sense of decrete like people secretly have with txt despite being a fan from another group which I find funny. For how long TXT have been in the industry, it’s just a matter of time that txt and their music get the recognition it deserved a long time ago, I feel like this is what txt have to go through with fighting girlgroup trends while still being themselves with their music and organically jarring exceptionally well and growing their fanbase. I’m happy bighit separates them from pleasing the Korean public, because it’s a hard fact that the only three biggest music industry in the world that all artists in the world want to chart in is the U.S, Japan, and the U.K
Therefore, I never understand why boygroup fandoms want validation from the Korean public and Korean charting when logically Korean charts isn’t as impressive than charting in the U.S, Japan, and the U.K charts. But it does make idols happy when they chart high in their home country try and I acknowledge the Korean fans efforts in charting TXT higher consistently for every comeback but I feel like txt being in the same billboard hot 100 room with Beyoncé, Taylor swift and Ariana Grande this year is more impressive than the Korean charts 😂
it's impressive, but ig everyone still want to chart in their home country
And TXT, in fact, does chart in their home country.
They are actually the only 4th gen bg that does well internationally and domestically. Actually besides SVT and BTS i think actually one of the only bg's at all rn.
@@5XKXNXA Fr, it’s better for txt to keep up breaking their own record than having a one hit wonder. If BTS and Seventeen are right now the leading bougroups on charts, TXT is the only 4th gen so close to catching up
@@h0neym00nl0ve0 I never said kpop idols don’t want to chart in their home country. Ofc they do, even yeonjun said so but people forget he also said in a documentary that he feels like in this time, even if your chart high, people don’t know who the singers are or most of the time don’t even know what the song is which is different from previous kpop generations where everybody just knew the singer and the songs because everyone regardless of fandom just supported each other and listened to each others music. That’s why I don’t find Korean chart impressive but at least charting high their signifies that you have a place their and acknowledgement from the people. Bts for example, they didn’t become a global phenomenon group by appealing to the korean general public, they did their own thing and fans of foreign countries loved their work and also korea, bts never had to appeal to the Korean public to get to where they are today and it’s something boygroups have always been doing and succeeding at in some level. Which is why I don’t understand why international kpop fans seek Korean public validation when you as a foreign fan giving validation is far more impressive than domestic validation but especially when it comes to charting. I feel like even BTS is a clear example of organic growth, having a very large supportive fanbase with insane power and with the achievement and big events bts did or attended in the U.S, it showed the korean public how impactful of a group BTS is internationally, it’s to the point where everyone in korea who don’t listen to BTS but know them solely bc of their impressive achievements that are constantly talked about in news channels, like there’s nothing more impressive than that, I bet it’s something all kpop groups want a recognition like in the world like bts has, but it all just depends how their company runs them, if the company is just fixated on Korean general public, than we see their priorities but we shouldn’t expect the group having any significance outside their country.
What you said about BTS is just simply untrue btw lol. you haven't listened to BTS discography properly because they're KNOWN for their diverse songs, albums and concepts as a group and as soloists. They've done nearly every genre under the sun. They simply cannot be put in a box
They're the ones who made having a universe/storyline from one mv and album to the next mv and album a thing. BU (bangtan universe) says hello. And it expanded so much that it went beyond mvs and songs - they had The Notes released during LY era that came with the album, released books, recently released a tv show, short films during Wings and more.
BTS have never catered to the "kpop sound/label/box" that's why they became the biggest artist to come out of SK/Asia and become a global household name. That's why the phrase btspop became a thing in 2017/2018 and it was coined by kmedia (and ofc other fandoms later started saying it for their own faves lol😂😭😭)
respectfully you're talking without not really knowing who you're speaking about.
Interesting because western pop is having this same discussion, especially among gen z males.
Girl group fans stan for the music, boy group fans stan for the members
that was a good video just some of my points:
1- misandry doesn’t exist bc women can't oppress men under the patriarchy
2- bg members can suffer from misogyny tho and homophobia
3- for the longest time bgs have dominated the kpop scene and good for them !! but now thats the women taking the lead everyone is complaining lmao no shade but idk i just think that ggs having this one thing for themselves is not the end of the world bc bgs members at the end of the day still got their fanbases and they're selling just fine so why not let the girls win this time?
misandry exists and it's becoming more horrible everyday
Having observed kpop since 2014, just want to put in my 2cents wortg of observations.
Companies, particularly SM, have and are still trying androgyny in looks & concept since Super Junior, Shinee, EXO and currently, NCT. And they were charting good domestically. To this day, SM boy groups are there amidst the girlgroups.
I'd say the shift in preference happened as the Western market opened. A new culture emerged & could have influenced the shift.
From a western perspective I think the biggest factor has just been an overall societal shift. With feminism becoming more and more prevalent, a lot of the potential bg demographic is reexamining their relationship towards men and how they are viewed in society, which has lead to a lot of women and young girls just distancing themselves from male artists. Especially ones who rely on the commodification of relationships. Looking at western pop charts shows a very similar image, being significantly more women heavy than male.
Regarding the Korean perspective, I think K-Pop is just an incredibly expensive hobby to really get invested in, especially when the average Korean citizen barely has enough to get by. This is also further reflected in overall birth rates going down within the country due to the cost of living crisis and people overall just not having the time or ressources to put into this type of entertainment. Which boygroups usually rely on more than girl groups. Boygroups tend to be more focused on their own niche and fandom (which comes with a lot of album buying, voting, etc.) while girl groups appeal to mass audiences. Boygroups have the potential to become acknowledged by the gp once they reach certain milestones while it's kind of the default for ggs.
I don't think it has anything to do with the music itself or the concepts bgs or ggs are doing or refusing to do. The general public couldn't care less about K-Pop concepts. They will just hear a song on the radio and either like it or not, similar to western audiences.
I personally started as someone mostly listening to girl groups, however the last few years have just been incredibly stale from my pov so I have mostly switched to boygroups. I don't really feel allegiance to either "side" though.
While I personally prefer girl groups to the boy groups, back during the second and third generation boy groups had enough character and individuality to make them stick out and make me take notice of them, something current boy groups are lacking, when you saw a group like Big Bang, Super Junior, Got 7 or Shinee you could know each member by their name and each group by their personality, this is why girl groups stick out more ,they still exercise that practice ,StacyC doesn't look or feel like New Jeans ,in the same way as Black Pink doesn't resemble Twice or Red Velvet, somewhere between EXO and BTS boy groups started to become almost carbon copies of each other, losing to a certain extend their individuality ,Ikon was one of the few groups that channeled the older boy group chemistry part of that was because they felt like guys, like it or not if you want to appeal to both market ,the female and male market you cannot ignore that girls will for the most part be attracted to a "manly" boy group ,while a guy will take notice of the boy group if they exhibit some "manly" cool vibes , today's boy groups are trying to play cutesy like girl groups do ,but the mass appeal for that is obviously not there ,and that's not to say ,guys going the cutesy route wasn't done before , Shinee's "Hello" or Got 7's "Just Right" videos prove that they could entertain cutesiness to a certain degree but it didn't define their image, contrary to today's boy groups whom almost act effeminate with every release...in short if they want to gain that sense of relevance they have remember that character and individuality is an important factor to achieving that or at least that's my take on it.
Anyway, really enjoyed the content.
i think the itzy-stray kids mitm-sneakers comparison isn't a good choice considering skz has releases like get cool, awkward silence, school life, mixtape gone days, surfin', concepts like that aren't just age appropriate for them anymore
at first i thought that was a crazy statement, but you're so right. their fandoms are so prevalent and successful that its easy for a lot of to forget, but in terms of pop culture and setting music trends, they largely havent been as successful as girl groups in some years. non-kpop stans are more likely to have listened to gg music, recognize some idols, and know things like "it girl" and "main slayer" types of titles.
totally agree with the misogyny limiting their reach. concepts get old pretty quickly to the general public, so its everything that ggs are constantly bringing out new refreshing concepts. i think another thing that contributes to boy groups' marketability is their size. bgs are usually pretty big at like 7+ members on avg, and its just harder for casuals to get into them compared to ggs who are usually 4-6 members. even aside from music concepts, i feel like its harder for a lot of people to want to learn more about a group when they have 9 members. i feel like to bg stans its incomprehensible that just 2-3 members makes that difference, but as a casual stan it feels so much more daunting to learn everyone from a 7 member group than a 6 member group. idk what it is but i feel like thats common among casual fans
the term it girl was a thing before kpop
I totally find myself sighing when a group is >6 members... Too daunting.
It's the music. They don't make Bigbang, BTS and EXO levels of public friendly music anymore. Most songs by newer gen bgs target a very specific type of audience, not everyone. Compare that to Bigbang, whose music is so easily approachable regardless of male or female audience. Even their company, YG's 4th gen BG Treasure, wasn't able to capture the general public's attention.
i wish the 3rd gen boy group sound came back tbh
For me, after BTS and Seventeen I really wanted to venture into other groups but i kept finding myself gravitating towards girl groups....their sounds are super diverse..they take risks and they bring new themes and sounds. I don't even need to actively follow them.
Groups like Aespa, Kiss of Life, New Jeans, Itzy...they stand out and you want to listen to their sounds
Boy groups nowadays just all blend into each other imo...
Like you said, for boy groups i feel like i have to connect with them first before stanning their music unlike gg where their songs draw me in first..then i stan later
But I don’t think this can be generalized like this-or at least there are far more exceptions.
I became a Kpop fan solely from listening to my daughter’s playlist. I connected to the music long before I developed an interest in the artist. But over and over again three specific artists stood out vocally and musically: Ateez, Vixx, and Taemin (like I found myself asking “who sings this? I like it?” And inevitably it was almost always one of those three. Two of these three are from small companies which draws in how much what company a group comes from influences popularity and not just gender.
I chose my favorite artists without any preconceived notions regarding who was popular, who was hot, who was from X company etc. but I do think these things-unrelated to the actual music can be factors as well.
Makes me realize the issue is complicated and more like a Venn diagram than direct correlation.
I don’t agree. I listen to both girl and boy groups, and boy groups definitely have more of a louder sound (like gg have a more cute sound) but I don’t find gg music is more diverse or anything. Every group has a different sound regard of gender
From bts to ggs? From one of the best petformers with superwide and quaility discography to lame chipmunks with primitive songs and 0 stage presence? 😅 Well, its your choice, but I will never understand how you can enjoy such an awful group as aespa.
@@user-ex4qy5is1l Who said I moved on from BTS? ...and you're right it is my choice
@@nightappple chimpunk electrofart lover🤣 multis are such lame breed.
See this is what made me so confused about TXT. As a moa, I couldn’t help but notice the lack of appreciation the general public has for TXT considering they’re everything a gg stan wants. Diverse discography and concepts, creative choreography, talent for days, yet you’ll never see their music video trending or gaining traction TO THE EXTENT of the girl groups. And I do understand that there are many gg fans who stan txt I always wondered- if that’s the case- why aren’t txt receiving their flowers when they do a lighter concept or an upbeat title track or b-side? I have of course considered all the reasons you’ve listed in the video but I feel like there’s still something missing, and like another comment mentioned, it’s simply bighits horrible promotion of TXT. I feel like they could and should be accumulating the same amount of views that girl groups do, or trends on TikTok but for some reason that’s not happening and I think we have bighit to blame.
Edit: I say all this not to disregard TXT’s achievements because charting #1 on the billboard 200 albums chart is insane but I’ve realized a pattern in the way they consistently release good music but are not given a huge response as other groups and it bothers me.
On paper TXT is made to be loved by a whide range of people...i just dont get why it not happening...then i see the obvious erasure a lot of kpop fans do towards them and i feel like i might know whats going on...
Yes omg i thought about this a lot too!
i think is also because bighit doesn’t go out of their way to market txt. they are usually just the testing group of hybe
Aren't txt the 4th gen group with the most songs over 100 million streams on spotify? I like txt too but complaining about appreciation is weird. Their sound doesn't follow trends like gg but they still do insanely well. Let gg stans live. Where was this energy for girl groups way back when
@@min-fel I became a K-pop fan in 2022 so I wouldn’t know anything about “this type of energy” before then. Though ggs are a great comparison notice there’s a reason I mention bighit. For example, Ateez’s bouncy or any SKZ song has become a trend in the past and good for them! They’re talented people as well as the girl groups! However, I noticed how txt have never had this in a sense that their music has never trended to the extent as the ggs or their 4th gen boy group counterparts, which I already explained why I’m confused by that so I’m not going into that again. I think in a live after the first episode of Taehyun’s solo variety show “Reincarnation Academy”, aired he mentioned how the kids in the first episode were all naming their favorite groups or groups popular amongst eachother. They listed ggs and bgs and no I don’t care whether they name txt or not but it was even brought to the members attention that bighit is not the best at promoting them. This is so much bigger than what you assume is a bg stan hating on girl groups, this is about bighit and their treatment of txt and it’s something moa have been talking about for a while so if you don’t understand that might be why.
one thing is true though: since bgs have stronger fanbases, they almost never try new concepts, while ggs literally learn every single thing just to try to make it.
sweat mv really made me continue this video they look gorgeous in that mv
you're so real
To me, as an old kpop stan, a lot of boy group recently have the same type of sound when it comes to their music. Newjeans and Aespa have a very unique sound and concept, personally when I look at the current groups they all seem to have the same styling and noise music/badass concept. The only group that used to be a tad more 'experimentative' in 4th gen was NCT but their recent release haven't been as creative recently. I think the main issue is there is an overwhelming amount of group that fit in the same exact concept, meaning, if you stan one why would you bother with another one.
I loved the fun concept that some boygroup had, like Just Right from GOT7, or Mansae by Seventeen are my biggest examples, but no agency appears to want to take on this concept recently
You also cannot ignore the fact that many people have learned about the overwhelming misogyny of South Korea and with the burning sun scandal,as a girl, it feels 'safer' to stan the girlies as their worst scandal could be like, dating? which many don't even see as a scandal.
as a black kpop stan the worst scandal for a gg is definitely not dating 😭 like as a ex mamamoo fan, I wish what they did was just dating but blackface ? 🫠
Good point about Burning Sun and international fans relationship with male idols.
NCT is a 3rd gen group, but I agree that WALK isn't as creative as previous comebacks like 2 baddies or Cherry Bomb. I still think it was fun though!
male celebrities these days are finally getting called out and exposed for literal violent crimes so I think the burning sun scandal ruined many male celebrities careers and unfortunately that means it ruined many associated with them.
I think another reason is the shift of audience. Back in 2nd gen and some of 3rd gen Girl Groups usually focused on attracting men with more cutest concepts. While now more Girl Groups have female empowerment as a concept and target more towards women, even when they are doing cute concepts they still are more targeted to girls. While Boy Groups have stayed relatively the same for years. Most boy groups have the same “manly” concepts that target to women. I’m not saying all boy groups are the same cause that’s not true. But a lot, if not most of them, have that same sound to them as they did back in 2nd gen and even 1st gen.
Someone suggested that the Burning Sun Scandal might have ruined a lot of the trust the general public could have for male idols right at the start of 4th gen.
One thing I find very frustrating is how people say that 'all boy groups sound the same' and this is a huge misconception. It's not just because 2 bgs release songs with the same sound that everyone is doing it, there's a wide variety of sounds and concepts that bgs do, but most people aren't interested in giving them a chance (especially when it comes to they are nugu groups that have songs that release more bright songs, but are overshadowed by more famous groups). that's just what I think
I follow a bg that has a wide variety of music. Every now and then, they drop a title that isn't stereotypical and it typically gets NO traction. So the next few albums, those songs are bsides. Then, they try again--nothing, so back to the bside for those kinds of songs.
@flaggov6949 What bg?
Misandry….How can you talk about this without addressing misogyny when it comes to dressing more femme or being critiquing a softer male image?
@@dreads8220 2:22 I believe I talked about it in regards to TXT facing criticism for their softer image - is this what you’re talking about?
@@choujimi Misandry isn't real, there's no systemic oppresion of men, it doesn't exist. There are many ways in which men can face prejudice through the lenses of toxic masculinity or homophobia, but misandry is not in any way comparible to or the "opposite" of misogyny because women as a societal group do not and cannot oppress men.
@@Rachel-sm7ymDo you truly believe what you just said in the last sentence because if so 😔
@@Rachel-sm7ymI think in this video essay they use the term misandry to describe the effects men face from the patriarchy and the limits of a “manly image”.
@@choujimi Part of what may be missing is a lot of this comes from homophobia (and anti femme sentiments) some fans have the belief that “members don’t actually want to wear those fits” or it’s unattractive in terms of their straight y/n fantasies when it comes to skirts & softer outfits & it’s all stylists/management forcing it. They couldn’t possible want to present that way
i haven’t watched the video yet, but my opinion is *drumroll* misogyny! (and globalization):
misogyny both towards the idols themselves, because of the longstanding stereotypes linked with boybands: “ew boy band members are gay and girly and wear makeup,” and specifically in kpop “they wear girly clothes and act feminine and look pretty ew”. but also towards their fandom, being usually mostly teenage and young females, deemed as obsessive, emotional, hysterical and thus cannot possibly have opinions on good music and taste, “they’re obviously there just because the boys are good looking,” “women can’t enjoy the actually good music”. so the members “can’t actually be talented”.
globally, the boyband’s curse is that they’re seen as lesser artists because they appeal to a female audience (mostly) and big female interest makes anything immediately second class, regardless of actual talent, artistry, hard work, etc. it’s just getting more and more prominent because of the globalization of it all. adding even more brands of misogyny to the mix, more stereotypes, more opinions. where as for a girl group it’s seen as more natural because “girls move in packs everywhere” anyways, close girl friendships are so much more acceptable globally, and them acting cute, girly, sexy, powerful, etc, doesn’t go against the standard image of what a girl behaves like. so it’s okay if it appeals to women and men.
my point is, kpop boy groups in practice just go against some social constructs that cause people to reject and downplay them. it happens to young male artists in general, just look at all that bieber had to go through and change to be accepted as an artist, by men…. in this world, male validation is what actually matters in regards to when some thing is deemed as worthy. see how much better male kpop reactors do than female reactors? yeah…. that’s also the reason the majority of reactors for anything is male, their opinions have actual weight. the need for that male validation from fandoms is a symptom of a bigger issue.
i live in korea, and imo, here it’s still business as usual. apart from the bigger groups (ggs and bgs) appearing on ads and billboards everywhere, most groups are just, there…. unless they’re a girl group doing a cute concept! people eat that up in here, but even then it’s just with the more popular groups and it’s just for maybe a month and then the fever is over. here girl groups might have become more relevant because a couple specific groups, but not to the detriment of boy groups.
okay now onto actually watching the video, lol
edit: added a missing coma :)
i’m half way through and though i believe your are misusing the term misandry. but i understand what you mean, and it’s fun to see we have similar arguments!
i do have to add, girl groups have always done better with the general public than boy groups (in big part because of what we both have stated), whereas boys groups have always depended more on fandom support (which is why they are known to have such loyal and dedicated fans), girl groups have recently gotten more of the later, so i think that’s also why we see that jump in popularity.
also i don’t think it’s exactly fair to compare current groups to seventeen or bts. these two are outliers more than the rule. bts because, well they’re the biggest boy group in the world; and seventeen because they are very well loved personalities in general and they’re obviously very good at their craft. but you could have made that type of comparison with girls generation, 2en1 or even blackpink a few years ago in regards to girl groups. groups that big only happen once in a while. right now we just happen to have a couple very successful girl groups, and that puts more attention on other ggs in general.
getting into kpop is interesting because most people i know started with only bgs or only ggs, and then, tried out “the other side”… some people don’t even really ever leave their original side or don’t find anything to their taste out there, becoming an only gg or bg stan
I'm so done with kpoppies talking about txt not charting in korea...they are the only 4th gen boy group doing well internationally and domestically. Besides svt and bts propably the only bg in general.
Just ONE example for txts korean position:
Highest peaks on Melon
Farewell, Neverland #6 (bside)
Tinnitus #7 (bside)
Happy Fools #8 (bside)
Devil by the Window #5 (bside)
Deja Vu #10
CYSM #5
Sugar Rush Ride #2
they charted their whole mini album Temptation in the top 10.
Their latest album Tomorrow charted as a whole on Melon again while getting high spotify streams for all tracks again.
I need yall to stfu and stop putting them in the same pot with other 4th gen boy groups.
And they always do this without proper promotion. They debuted their track Open Always Wins with 791k streams on spotify. I bet yall didnt even know about this song because the promo by bigshit was 0 and it still did well.
This turned into a rant i didnt even wanna have but kpoppies cant shut their mouths so why should i.
I understand what you mean. Everyone does group txt and other boy groups together but truly no boy group(at least in the 4th gen) is really doing it like them. Their sales and charts will forever impress me, however, I made my own comment about their lack of appreciation from the general public. Because although they chart well and are well known they do not have the same level of recognition as the girls groups and that’s something me and many other moas have noticed. Like I’ve rarely ever seen a K-pop idol do a TikTok to TXT’s song unless it’s with them, which is so weird because they’re popular enough and chart well enough so why is this not happening? Of course there are other examples but I don’t want to go into it cause it’s a lot but glad we can all agree bighits lack of promotion is really the problem here.
@@_harley_1288 i absolutely agree! They are above other 4th gen bg but still not appreciated enough!
If bighit promoted them everywhere like the did in japan for chikai now they would be so so much bigger...
@@5XKXNXA For real! The way Hueningkai went viral for his cover in Japan was amazing! The promotions they get in Japan are great. I wish bighit kept that same energy to promote them in other parts of the world. Like how do they expect txt to grow when they have only ever promoted in two continents!??
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PPL IN THE BACK
As a boygroup stan who doesn't really enjoy (most) gg music (with a few exceptions like pinkfantasy and dreamcatcher)...I would hate for bgs to follow ggs in terms of sound. Not saying they're musically bad its just not for me. Therefore... I'm perfectly content with the current state of things minus the bgs being bullied for stuff like the ballet shoes
boygroups don’t have the pressure to make music that the general public will like the way girlgroups do and that could be a double edged sword. on one hand, there are boygroups who just keep releasing the same formula because the fans will pay the bills either way so why try harder. on the other hand, they have the freedom release whatever they like (no matter how good or bad it sounds).
TXT being in the same room with Beyoncé, Taylor Swift and Ariana grande for the billboard artist 100 for 2024 is always gonna be more impressive than korean charts.
Real
They aren’t lacking in Korean charts either, actually they’re the second most streamed 4th gen kpop group after gidle and their Korean fan base is very consistent
that's so true! they are doing so well, i feel like people are living in some alternate reality where txt don't have fantastic results across the board.
did you skip the intro or smth? at least have some respect towards your idol's wishes and goals. a balanced success is what's important. imagine saying it to his face that domestic success doesn't matter just because the kr gp just can't quite get into his group 💀
Bebe Rhexa has been in the same room as Beyonce, Taylor Swift, and Ariana Grande; doesn’t mean she has cultural impact.
I watched a video explaining how, with patriarchy still being the unfortunate foundation of our society, it means it is subconsciously written that anything typically "masculine" is the default for all humans. Femininity is simply a deviation from this, and this is why people have such a reproach towards men expressing traditional feminine ideas. For example, it is widely accepted for women to wear trousers (pants), but it is nowhere near the same for men having the ability to wear skirts. How come? If we have been expressing equality for the last however many decades, why do people look down on men for doing this when trousers are seen as a unisex clothing item now? It is because of society's inability to handle femininity for these reasons. Women have always been tied to femininity, but now we are trying to unify genders it is clear people don't like femininity on men as they do masculinity on women.
As another example, there is a pandemic within the younger generation (especially boys) of them being defensive about being called gay, for the same reason of feminine deviation from a societal default. Most find it embarrassing to be found outside the default, it's human nature. This ties in with the fact that it means female idols have such a large way to express themselves and a concept, as they are less bound by the need to live up to toxic masculine standards, unlike men who are shamed for even putting on make-up. Female idols are mistreated by patriarchal standards in many different ways, but the way these standards fall on typical men in terms of feminine self-expression is prevalent.
Yeah and men are more likely to support girl groups if they do for the looks and youthfulness of female idols and are not attracted to men so they don’t bother supporting boy groups bc I think people are attracted to them first before music. Ever since I got married and I’m Demi I don’t really listen to boy groups anymore plus I’m much older and like girl groups more since it be weird to bias young men 😂. That’s just me tho I like a few boy groups music but j don’t Stan them. We can’t assume people like kpop for just the “music” since idols do way more then jsut sing and dance
_KPOP BOY GROUPS NOWADAYS:_ Solid fandom composed mostly of women/ gilrs
_KPOP GIRL GROUPS NOWADAYS:_ General Public casual listeners , they can attract both genders (Male/female) to their fandom
This is exactly why my interests shifted from boy groups to girl groups. You are absolutely right about the difference in attachment to the group itself. With ggs I don't really care about the artists themselves, only about what they put out. But with bgs I watch their additional content like shows, interviews and so on. 8 have been in kpop since 2014 and the shift is very noticeable now.
I love TXT and am really sad that the boys are being criticized for their experiments. Their earlier concepts like nap of a star and can't you see me are one of the best in kpop. As a SHINee and EXO fan, TXT's music appeals to me a lot and I would be incredibly sad if they lost their musical identity. Frost was not it, sorry. These boys are made for the softcore, emo rock and songs like the killa 😂
To this day, I think that Tell me what to do was SHINee's best title song. EXO's winter albums are absolute masterpieces of the industry
SM in general isn't afraid to experiment. Chewing gum by NCT dream was that fun gg coded bg song
And let's look at the most successful group of kpop - BTS. Their concepts have been very diverse over the years and that's (with a ton of marketing, of cours) is the reason they got so popular.
I hope companies realise what we actually want to see and make some more interesting concepts for bgs in the future
Heavily agree on Chewing Gum! That’s one of the outliers where I think NCT was able to fully meet the concept of the song where it was. At the very least it shows that high concept development is not an impossible thing for boy groups to do. Same with TXT and BTS; I also hope we see more concept work like this in the future!
Personally girl groups are just more interesting to me as whole ,which is wild bc I use to listen to boygroups exclusively in the past.
Honestly I couldn't be happier I love the girlies
real
I love them both tbh
Even if they are getting less attention I'll always be a boy group stan
I would say that this is also happening in the American and Latin music industry. Literally in the last year alone the main artists that have released music that has charted and maintain cultural relevancy are almost if not ALL women. There are men that have done well but not to the same level. Sabrina Carpenter, Chappell Roan, Victoria Monet, Beyoncé, Charli XCX, Karol G, Emilia, Tyla, Tinashe, etc….these are the people that you will be reminded of when you think of 2024 pop music. Aside from Kendrick Lamar and Bad Bunny, I have not seen a male artist be even close to the same level as these women for years in terms of relevancy, charts, and cultural impact.
as a girl group stan im happy ggs are more relevant 💝
The title made me think at first...are you kidding me? Are you joking right now? Is this a prank? Who in their fucking minds would say this?
I think its actually the opposite, although boy groupss don't get as much as popularity in terms of cultural relevance, but i think boy groups generate more fandom and community power and will continue to most likely to continue to get even more support as most of boy group's fandom consists of teen girls/ younger 20s women with a shit ton of time and money (either thru their own money or family money) on their hands
I agree! With the type of support and community that boy groups cultivate, I really don’t think things like chart positions should matter so long as the members are making and performing the kind of music that they want to release
yes like every though gg songs are charting more but bg still have solid fandam and more followers
Yesss! That's why in social media marketing, brands prefer to keep a more tight knit social community that also have a high engagement rate for this exact reason :DD
For me, I just don’t have the energy to invest in 5+ boys and their charms. Like, I wish them success, but I don’t want to be crushing on ANOTHER boy group.
Your example with TXT is so funny to me because...are the bg the problem here or the kpoppies😃
Honestly we wouldn't have this talk if people wasn't so obsessed about kcharts and put them on a pedestal. In other aspects (tickets sales power, western popularity and charting, albums sales) BGs dominate. Look on Twice, they don't chart on top any more, but their tickets sales power is definitely bigger than those groups that are on top of Melon chart. The GP relevance that GGs have is very fickle, look on IVE, they tried new concepts and sound and it did worse than previous comebacks (both charts and music show win wise), GGs might try different concepts, but not evey will be liked by GP, while BGs can make music they like and still make a lot of money. I think we all know that GP generally like softer sounding groups, that is why SVT, TWS and Riize do well on kcharts and Ateez and Stray kids do great on western market.
Ive worse performing songs charts top5 on melon which is a dream for many bgs/ggs.
@@ichi22ldes Not sure if big groups dreams about being just top5, everybody wants numer 1. Just like in sports after some time people remember only the winner. But that wasn't point of my previous comment, my point was that genral public isn't loyal and heavily follows tends, one day you are the #1 hot group of the moment, but that could easilly change. That is why having strong loyal fandom is more important and gives the group longevity.
Super and Maestro also charted on Melon..where are these soft songs? As soon as a group is popular over there they dont give af about what the sound is like. Also baddie, sheesh, supernova and super lady...very soft songs indeed....who are people trying to fool with the soft song excuse? So many examples that prove this is just an illusion .
@@5XKXNXA I wrote "GP generally like softer sounding groups", not "GP only likes soft songs", there is difference between charting and being #1. Out of the songs you mentiones only Supernova charted at #1 on Melon and out of all Seventeen songs only God of Music achieved this. Very powerful song indeed, not soft at all. Also good that you mentioned Super lady, what songs from that album charted #1? no it wasn't Super lady, it was much softer sounding Fate. If they don't give a fuck about the sound, then where is Stray kids on the kcharts?
@@ichi22ldesive also hasn’t touched a streaming chart for over a year
I absolutely agree that’s also rooted in misogyny. Kpop male groups wear makeup, costumes and seem to have large female audience. And anything feminine and that young girls like I’ve noticed are especially more scrutinized. I’ve seen men in the west criticize groups like BTS for not being “masculine” enough which is so toxic and restrictive.
On a personal note, I’m strictly a girl group girlie. Not because I hate men. But girl groups are how I was introduced to kpop and I’ve just been with the girls since then. Besides Ateez, I’m not really a fan of boy groups. Not because I think they’re inherently less talented. That just hasn’t been the activity I’ve interacted with a lot. I feel like a I can relate to other girls and women in gg (to a certain extent of course. Idk know them irl) and I like the variety of music that girl groups can offer. My music taste is very wide (excluding country music yuck), and I find that girl groups and female soloist provide such a wide range of music styles and concepts and it’s so fun. But I’m also open to being fans of boy groups. I just haven’t connected with them as much as I have with the girlies (except Ateez)
Just curious-why do you think Ateez is the only bg you’ve connected with? What are they doing that appeals that other groups aren’t (asking as an Ateez fan myself but I’m not super into most ggs).
@@kimdaniel2601are you a boy? If so why are you into bgs more than ggs?
@@kimdaniel2601 Good question! Honestly, I haven't thought too deeply about it, so I'm sure as I think more about it, it will become clearer later on. It's almost like they sucked me in. I saw a short clip on TikTok of San during of one of their Fireworks(I'm The One) performance, and I deadass couldn't stop thinking about him. Not just because he's absolutely beautiful. But his entire performance captivated me he was that good. I saw this clip around the time they were teasing Guerrilla. They released that short teaser, and I instantly knew I would LOVE the song. I was counting down the days for the comeback, and this was the first time I've anticipated a comeback from a group that I had (at that point never heard of). So as I was waiting I went back, listened to their catalog and watched old performances and interviews because the wait felt too long. They perform like every perform is their last. They're so talented and so passionate that I just really really fell in love with that. The music was fun, and they honestly felt genuine (not that other groups aren't). I just really really love their passion, how hard they work, how they strive to be even better, how they perfectly they work together, how funny they are. It felt like their performances give a sneak peak into how much they care about this because they just have so much passion for it, and it's so inspiring and almost hard not to root for them. There are of course very very talented boy groups out there. i have a couple boy group songs in my playlist. But Ateez just made me really really want to root for them and know them deeper as a group. I was really interested not just their music but their story. Their passion, talent, great music and great and funny personalities just made me keep checking them out and before long I was a fan. If there are any boy groups, you think I would like, I would love the rec!!
@@yaya_97 I fell into Kpop solely by listening to the music. So Ateez was my first group. The ggs I like are more harder edged groups like Pixy, Craxy and Dreamcatcher.
My other favorite BGs-Vixx, P1Harmony, Taemin, Shinee, and EXO. Oh and I have a lot of Seventeen but more their older music than newer. I’ve been discovering BAP and GOT7. I honestly find I’m more into the older gen BGs vs more recent. But I find I am most drawn to BGs with good vocals, harmonies etc. a lot of newer groups don’t do that for me in a way I like (gg or bg).
But I totally agree that there is something about Ateez I don’t find in other groups. Their performance, creativity etc. but I also don’t think I’ve found a group where the whole discography is no skip. VIXX comes the closest (and I think outside of EXO have some of the best vocals for BGs of their gen).
@@kimdaniel2601 I love Drramcatcher!!! Their one of my ultimate kpop groups! I can definitely see what you mean! I think NewJeans, Twice and StayC are groups that I like with close to a no skip discography. I got into kpop towards the end of 3rd gen because of BlackPink and Twice and my girl group love just increased from there.
im kinda rooting for boy next door to shake things up
and also, for some reason, i feel like The Boyz has some potential too basing on their older releases
From what I personally have observed as a boy who listens to mostly girl groups, from what I've seen is that girl groups seem like they have more like "types" of music covered. Like a gg could have an empowering song, and then a sexy song, and then a cute song, and so on and so it feels like I could listen to one artist and have such a variety of concepts whereas with boy groups, it feels like they have a much smaller range. Like from the songs that are really popular from boy groups it feels like they do like "oh i'm so sexy and hot and you want me so bad" or "im a rebel and im jumping off buildings like im in an action movie and you still want me so bad". I do wish that bgs had more freedom and i love that some groups like txt are doing softer concepts and are trying to break out of the "stereotypical super masculine man" box that men are automatically put in. And I would be way more interested in bg music if it wasn't just the same "I'm super hot and sexy and strong and manly" that the majority of the bg industry has done kinda forever. Also i love how the large majority of the people in this comments section is respectfully giving their opinions and there isn't anyone being rude about it and stuff like every other social media platform lol
Exactly. U can literally find all sorts of songs in groups like Twice, Red velvet, Aespa, lesserafim etc.
4:18 I mean, Stray Kids do have quirky, fun & silly songs, but I do get your point.
(Though one of the silliest fun songs I've heard is Emergency by Day6, like boy groups and bands are still very able to do these type of songs. It all circles back to people and the industry restricting how boy groups should be)
Christmas Evel
I agree with most of what you're saying in the video. I've been a kpop fans since 2013, so I remember the time when boygroups were definitely more popular than girlgroups overall both internationally and in Korea. The shift seems to have started with BlackPink. BlackPink, and the majority of girlgroups that came after shifted their marketing strategy to attracting women either more so than men or equally as much. Unlike before when girlgroups were mostly marketed to men. In my opinion, this is a massive part of what's caused this shift. There is also the fact as you mentioned, that girlgroups are very varied nowadays, you find a lot of variety in girlgroups that you don't really find with boygroups. It's funny though because in my opinion that was essentially the other way round before. 2nd Gen boygroup concepts and sounds used to have way more variety than they do now for example. That's just my thoughts though.
And that’s why I miss the musical artistry groups like iKON and PENTAGON brought to the table back then 🥲
I think it's mainly cause majority of bgs are less interesting than ggs. Alot of companies refuse to move on from 3rd style title tracks. The only 4th bgs i can think of that's talked about outside fandom is riize and they're very much on trend right now.
Ps. Just to clarify i don't mean in terms of concepts but sonically, the gp wants softer title tracks but the majority of bg fans don't so there's a disconnect
Btw riize is 5th gen
Except I listen to a bg that has an extremely diverse discography and some of my favorite tracks are their softer ones.
I think this is a great example of the false narrative that all BGs sound the same and all they do is make “noisy” music. If you believe this myth then all you’re going to notice is the music that confirms the myth and not actually pay attention to other songs.
@@kimdaniel2601PREACH! Boy groups drop noisy titles because they get more attention, but they have a lot of fantastic bsides. People need to actually listen to albums before generalizing about a whole album based on their titles.
@flaggov6949 but that's the thing- the title track is supposed to attract ppl to listen to the whole album. If the tt can't do that then they either promote a good bside or just give up lol.
@@RUKA_BABYMONST7R Their softer TTs do not attract as many new fans--that's why they go back to the harder ones. Maybe it's because people who like softer songs skip bgs because they assume it'll be hard, but their companies are choosing TTs based on the data. It's a catch 22.
the only boy group that is in the same category as aespa and nj is riize, im surprised they weren’t mentioned at all considering how huge get a guitar was and how relevant wonbin and literally every member is rn in sk
I think the way misogyny plays a role in boy group irrelevance is the way the "general public" has always viewed bgs as being marketed towards teen girls, and thus, they shouldn't be taken seriously.
And this is also why Korean men don't like them either. They think bgs are lame for trying to appeal to women instead of being more masculine and appealing to men.
And dare I say some of it is internalized homophobia or misandry because some dudes will obsess over the tiny, pretty, "twinks" but be hyper critical of the more manly dudes. I've noticed this is especially true of western men.
(For context, I've been living in Korea for 4 years and have asked my korean guy friends about this)
Something that i find interesting is that the boy groups that do well in the korean charts/public seem to not be as popular overseas?.. specifically the 4thgen/5th gen boy groups. Thats why it feels like bg aren't as relevant for us.
groups like riize, tws, plave (5th gen) & tbz (4th gen) are some examples of more popular groups in kr.
Its really interesting for tbz especially, because it doesnt reflect their popularity internationally.
txt and zb1 I think are more balanced in terms of popularity domestically and internationally.
I think some examples of songs that went viral in kr but are not receiving as much love overseas are:
tws- plot twist,
plave - way 4 luv
rizee -love 119
GG music tends to more viral on TikTok and for trends eg magnetic and super shy. Also, found more cute & soft so it’s used for different purposes eg vlogs, relationships, and softer fan edits compared the noisier sound from 4th gen. 5th bgs like riize are bringing the cute concepts back though.
Idols and labels should have taken notes not only fron BTS but also from BigBang. Like especially BIGBANG! Although BTS became really popular, it was BIGBANG who had a balanced male/female fans. 50/50.
They never did this bromance fanservice or try to act nice and cute. I'm not saying that's wrong but if you want respect from men you have to either act like a real man (BigBang) or be super talented they no longer care if you also like to incorporate feminine stuff in your performance and looks (ex. Taemin, Ten). Masculinity is not just about what men wear. It's also about that energy of not being submissive to the fans.
Before the fans follow BigBang even though they control their image instead of trying to please fans and be "sexy" or "pretty". They were focused on the quality of their music and created an image that's consistent to that music. Now the label try to cater too much to the fans and trends that the boygroups less feel authentic and become more manutactured cuz their image and style try to cater too much to the fans.
This long ass assay and bts still more loved and successful than whoever tf are those burning sin scandal owners
personally i think its simply the lack of competition, relevance depends on competition and drama. I think boy groups are doing very badly when it comes to branding and music variety, we have fresh-summer concepts everywhere, we have “noisy” and dark concepts everywhere, with smaller companies doing edgy music, nothing unexpected from anyone. Is anyone marketing uniqueness the way girl groups are doing? boynextdoor are doing their branding pretty well but it needs to be marketed better, and needs more buzz. There’s TWS doing pretty well in korea, RIZE sometimes ends up being just “an sm group”. People usually say boy groups form fanbases first, then go the experimental way but haven’t they been stuck in the fanbase formation phase for too long now? Or companies might just be too comfortable with the bland boring boy group trajectories since they pay well.
I think when it comes to what's popular with the general public, it will always come down to the music itself. Most boy groups make music that lends itself to being enjoyed in more of a performance context than just listening casually. This goes along with the common marketing strategy that is applied to these groups which prioritizes fanservice above all else, because that is the easiest and most efficient way of gaining fans in their target demographic (hormonal teenage girls). Girl groups on the other hand don't really have a choice but to target the general public due to them not having as much access to that demographic and the streaming machine that comes with it. There are plenty of examples of songs throughout kpop (and general pop) history that fall in line with conventional masculinity standards that were also successful with the general public (Mirotic comes to mind). The difference between a song like Mirotic vs whatever Stray Kids and Seveteen are currently putting out is that Mirotic was written with the intention of being a catchy and digestible pop song, while most of Stray Kids' title tracks are performance pieces that are meant to overwhelm you with a spectacle. Spectacles can gain you lots of fans, but they don't really lend themselves to cultural ubiquity the same way that a simple earworm and comforting production does.
Honestly haven’t watched the video yet but I feel like girl groups have always been more popular than boy groups with an exception of bts and some of the first kpop boy groups.