Forgot to add that the studies mentioned are in the description. Also, I know I this was in the video but I keep seeing the same comments. It’s totally OKAY to not like boy bands. No one should be forced to like anything. This video is specifically addressing the ANTI-FANS as defined in Duffet’s study.
I feel like you are a little of the mark here, while its true that that a part of that hate comes from jealously or the inability to compete, but that is not the source of it,I never considered my hate for the boy bands because I mostly act like you when it comes to superheroes, but your video gave me the chance to give some thought to that hate, I find myself feeling repulsed or disgusted in a way from the Boy Bands, and I more confused by the female attraction to them then envious, and I think that truth is hiding between the two common words used to describe the boy band "fake" "gay", i find that the way that men in those band behave unnatural almost robotic in a way that is why its fake its manufactured to appeal to the female audience and that is ok, its just not for me, but what is "gay" about it, is those men don't follow the typical mold or behavior of a man, every man have a preconceived idea about how a man should behave, and every woman have the same idea which is your typical manly man act you know "men don't cry" and expressing your emotions could be seen as a sign of weakness...etc. and despite the common consensus that this type of behavior is attributed to the "toxic male", that is how most men act and that is how most women expect and want men to act(I know that from a personal experience), and the boy band is the exact opposite of that they act soft and deeply emotional in a jarring way, and the fact this kind of behavior is guaranteed to repulse any woman in real life and those men attract females with it reinforce, the feeling of fakeness to me, like when I look at those women I genuinely feel like something is wrong with them and I should avoid them at all costs ,I have been raised to act in way that is the exact opposite of the men in boy bands, and in a way boy bands are anti men, anti manhood they are just boys, but maybe its just me.
@@Thatguy-uc3dy i mean, toxic masculinity is when the act of being stereotypically manly completely contrasts from how a person actually is, isn’t it? If someone just so happens to be that way naturally, whatever; but if it’s all an act, then I feel similarly to that act as you do with how boybands manufacture their appeal. There are men that are just more emotional as well as those that aren’t that emotional. The only difference between these two acts is that one is more socially acceptable, and social acceptability shouldn’t be the main component on how things should be, as it only represents what the mass finds okay rather than whether it actually is. I do think boy band and idol culture have reprehensible qualities, such as the dehumanization of the actors and etc., but the boybands simply being non typical depictions of a man isn’t one of them.
@@Cardboard449 ok, fine maybe when I said that the boy bands are anti men, I was being a little inflammatory, men do come in all shapes and sizes and I shouldn't judge that, but I truly believe that the non typical depictions of a man is in fact one of the main reasons for the hate, when I really think about it, it is way more plausible to be referred to them as "gay" because its atypical, not because of insecurity or jealousy, and its not about what socially acceptable either, this purely about "Why Dudes Hate Boy Bands", and while I find that the ideas represented in this videos are compelling but it is simply unrealistic to expect a man would feel the need to compete with someone unreachable as a singer or a movie star, maybe the argument in here is that feeling is uncontrollable and rooted in our biology, but not for me, like i said I make a conscious decision of avoiding the kind of women who are celebrity crazy, because what is even more unrealistic is the idea that a normal woman would have a shot with abnormal man, so the whole idea that Dudes Hate Boy Bands because they are envious is dead in the water. @Zach Forman sure, I can take criticism.
I remember when bts asked their male fans to scream in a concert and they were SOOOOO loud it sounded like a football stadium, the members were shook. These were mostly GROWN men with beards too, not teenage boys or young males. I'd say they were even louder than the girls
You fail to mention how their isn't the same hate to rockstars who get a lot of women, and they tend to be idolized by men even if they are also media creations.
yes I feel like the evolutionary response argument presented in the video is short sighted and fails to account for the fact that this hatred is almost exclusively limited to boybands and other specific things teenager girls like such as YA novels or fanfiction or even make up (not so much anymore but in the 2000s and early 2010s this was the case)
That was actually in the original script and a discussion the co-writer and I had during this production. Our theories were: 1. Tough boys are able to relate to rockstars, therefore the way they attract females is less hated Or 2. Rockstars did receive hate. Reporters often called hair bands gay or androgynous. However there weren’t enough substantive studies to go in either direction, so I decided to axe the theories from the video.
@@DonnaIRL Its a combination of the band theme and fan base, rock stars dont sing about love all the time. And the love does not exist in real life as in the songs and because of that its just stupid and everyone who fall for it are also stupid. Other genres could use real talent and emotions in thier music but these boy bands exist only for one reason, makes teenage pantys wet.
I was just at Stray Kid's encore show in LA a few days ago and I was AWED by the amount of fanboys I saw not only around me, but on social media (including fathers, and Jason Earl). Like the amount of men I heard screaming was insane! Music is universal and I'm glad there's more openness nowadays where anyone of any gender can enjoy good music.
Stay, how you doing? I attended their show in Feb and I agree to this. Also got7, Enhypen, Sik-k, Zico and the rose all have male fans older in general and honestly some become my friends! Also hope you enjoyed the show? After concert depression is real! Take care of yourself 💓
Also I don't really think that Stray Kids is a group of boyfriends, they seem more like a group of your friends who are fun to be with. They promote good values about the importance of appreciating yourself, learning and exploring new things, working hard, resting well, finding friends and being kind to others. It seems to me that these things are important for everyone, regardless of gender or age ^^
I think it stems from stray kids not making pop music and having a more "tough image" there's a few members who are dudebro gym rats rather than pretty boys
I'm a dude and I love a Boy Band! A lot of the black Boy Bands are loved within the culture (Boys II Men, B2K, New Edition, Jackson 5, Jodeci, Dru Hill, 112, Jagged Edge, Day26) I could go on forever. Furthermore I love a good K-Pop too.
I used to think that too. Then I got the courage to ask my boyfriend to see the bts movie with me. During the movie he looked up when their next concert was lol!!! He literally loved their live performance 😂
"I think they are not cool and I am jealous of the attention they get from girls. Feels like I am not going to be likable if I don't act like them and I don't want to" Me when I was a teenager.
I think the whole "they're gay" thing has a lot more to do with the fact that the "stud-male archetype" tends to see being gay as a sign of being weak and fragile, by calling these boy bands gay, they wish to curb their insecurities and display superiority over them. In their minds, these male types aren't showing aggression and anything that doesn't show aggression is weak and feminine, which is why they pride themselves on their false sense of masculinity. It's just to mask their insecurities over the success of a male type that isn't theirs.
Agreed they are probably misogynistic dudes who consider females as inferior just because they're biologically weaker than males and them seeing a slight piece of feminity in guys somehow makes them think it's ok to bully them.
it's so stupid bc if they're gay doesn't that mean u have less competition?? shouldn't u be happy that those guys aren't interested in the girls you are??? 😭😭
@@usualdosage7287 I mean, i get that, if you think so that's a fair reason. However, i don't think that they would go out of their way to make fun of those acts, or make fun of/judge people who like those acts. Everyone has different interests. I.e i don't think they'd call them "gay" and stuff if it's just about music preference.
i feel like the guys who do hate boybands come from a place of jealousy. they dont like that these men get women's affections without being what these men think men should be, or what these men wish they could be.
Also, a lot of it comes from older men who refuse to accept that women prefer younger, more attractive men. Just look at what happened with Justin Bieber in the 2010s. It was ridiculous how much vitriol he got from grown ass men just because they were simply jealous.
@@usualdosage7287 you have a very surface-level understanding of pop music. Some of it is for show, but a lot of it is art. I'm not sure how you could listen to BTS's music and read their lyrics and think it's all for show.
Most people don't even want to look past stereotypes and just want to jump on hate trains "just because". If they did, they'd know BTS basically go beyond most of these stereotypes. (using them as an example because I am a fan, Army, and I don't know enough about other Kpop acts to speak on their behalf.) BTS basically write all of their songs, and they have been doing that since the very beginning. From the very first album, throughout their whole career as a band and solo artists, to this day. Three of their members (J-Hope, Suga, RM) are the main song writers and took park in the creation of every album and have hundreds of song credits each. RM writes songs for other artists. SUGA produces for other artists as well. Every member is also part of the Korean Copyright Association and have written and produced many songs as well. They do have "love songs", especially in their earlier days (as they were literal teens themselves), but they cover a whole lot of different topics as well, even psychological concepts like Carl Jung's map of the soul (whole albums about that!). They also have "love songs" written using gender neutral pronouns on purpose, especially in their later works. To understand their lyrics completely, I'd suggest sites like "doolset bangtan" which break down their lyrics, especially the korean wordplays and references that aren't found on a simple "lyric video". They got me reading pages of lyrics breakdowns for fun and I've never done that with any artist i listen to on the regular. Even if they were put together by someone else and did not "come together" naturally, they still had to rise to the top with their own blood, sweat and tears. They do have an "underdog" story and that's one of the many reasons why their fans are so dedicated. They came from a small company which was on the verge of bankruptcy and experienced hate since the early stages of their careers until now. Despite their many struggles (I'd suggest to take a look into their story, for anyone who's interested) they still came on top because they have always been genuine talented people. And speaking of male fans! In their latest concert(s), they asked only the men in the stadium to cheer, and it legit sounded like a football stadium. Very fun. My comment is messy and has no structure whatsoever AND I don't know where I'm going but all I'm saying is, uh, don't judge a book by its cover. Or something.
This is exactly why men hate k-pop listeners. You people are so overly obsessed with them , writing paragraphs online trying your best to portray BTS as some magical best band in the world. BTS fanbase is well known to be filled with toxic teenage girls , who worship these bands
I use Instagram and Tik Tok as a self promotional tool as I'm an artist. I like to highlight body positivity and positive masculine energy. I've definitely dealt with some very mean spirited negative dudes trying to "put me in my place".While I know my content isn't for everyone,it often comes across from insecurities..as if I'm a threat to them. When I started becoming more vocal that I am a gay male artist,I noticed I got less negative responses.. almost as if I wasn't a threat as I was in a different dating pool.
@@DonnaIRL Some definitely have experienced similar,but much less than I have. One factor..most cannot identify I'm gay by appearance or mannerisms. In social settings,I've seen other guys attempting to be appear more alpha around me and when they discovered that I'm gay, suddenly they let down their bs seemingly more friendly to me. Hector projector much?! 😂
As a dude, I totally hated these types of groups when I was younger. I was definitely the type of teenager to make fun of someone for like One Direction. Now as an adult, I still don't like them, but I don't care if other people do. I think your idea has a lot of merit.
yea there nothing wrong with not liking boy bands but bullying girls that do and saying its not "real music" is the problem. I wish there was more people like you who just mind their business when it comes to girls liking boy bands. Especially if you're an adult.
I'm a woman and I don't like boy bands or kpop groups either. I just don't like how feminine the men are in K-pop. They all wear makeup and look like they take longer to get ready in the morning than I do! I only stan girl groups for that reason. Obviously this is just my opinion plenty of women are really into that. But I'm definitely not one of them. They look like they spend way more time on their hair and makeup and nails than the majority of women do. Effeminate men aren't universally attractive. The majority of men who were named most attractive men in the world are rugged and handsome not ✨pretty✨. And ALL the men in kpop groups are definitely pretty, beautiful even, but I wouldn't call a single one rugged or handsome in a John Wick way.
I think people who go out of their way to say they don't care if other people like something they dislike, are lying to themselves a bit. Including this TH-camr. Me thinks the lady doth protest too much...
@agtierrez I agree with this, but it's the kpop fan girls who are calling guys jealous or ugly just because they don't like boy bands, how does that make them reconsider their opinion?
it's sad because I think girls in general can really not find peace in most music fan spaces. if girls like rock or rap, they are questioned or othered and if they like pop (kpop) they are mocked or looked down on. music is music and boybands are fun! and BTS exploded because their approach and rise was specifically non-manufactured in the standard way of boybands. you've got members who are humble and genuinely passionate about music and performance and showmanship. their additional variety show content gets fans invested in personality the same way people become fans of actors. combine music, fashion and charisma and youve got a perfect storm for a successful group. but i see lots of fans saying how can they settle for any men after knowing the members. So I do understand the jealousy factor. Their content is edited so they seem perfect. Maybe its the equivalent of girls hating on models or beauty standards that make it more difficult for the normal gal. Anything that raises the bar for existing might have an automatic negative reaction from their demographic.
I've been in the rock community all my life and I have never seen rocker girls questioned or othered, so to me that seems like a very weird argument to make. But then again, I dont live in the USA so perhaps its a cultural thing. But aside from that, i think you absolutely touched on something true in the last paragraph. Men hate super artificial boybands for the same reasons women hate photoshopped supermodels.
BTS didnt explode because of that. If you look outside your bubble, youll see that bts is not the only group that is humble and passionate and to say something like that is completley obnoxious. One thing a lot of kpop stans miss is that getting you invested into kpop IS the manufacturing. They do it with every group, this is why no matter if you stan nct or stray kids they will all say they are genuine, kpop is literally a soft power
@@dasanii2467 🙄 I'm talking in comparison to western boybands where members in recent decades have not been particularly passionate about making music or being in a boyband at all. BTS was most of their fans introduction to kpop so finding a group who not only loves their craft but love each other is a stark difference from what we are used to.
@@amanduuuh_7117 You are missing the point of what this person said. Are you aware of the draconian nature of the contracts all K-pop artists have to sign, and the degree to which the agency gets to dictate their public conduct, and even their private life? No doubt anyone who has been at all successful in the music industry has some degree of passion for it. But the whole "love of their craft" and whatever other wholesome characteristics you find in them, are a product they have been specifically coached to sell.
@@vladutzuli Most anybody with a public facing business filters and edits their public content and conduct to maximize their impact and influence right? You can word it as sinisterly as you like but it doesn't change the fact that majority of public figures have a PR team who coach and dictate what to say. That isn't lost on fans but being in public spotlight, true natures shine through eventually and thats what wins over fans. And you seem to have missed MY point at how the reason for BTS success is that they gained fans because they are the exception to the actual draconian situations found in kpop, and frankly western, industries as well.
Before watching, as a dude, I'll say this, I don't hate Boy Bands or K-Pop. I hate their obnoxious fans. I hate obnoxious fans of all genres, honestly.
i ran a little thought experiment on my guy friends once- showed them boy band songs but called some of them kpop, but some of them kr&b despite them still being kpop songs. what do you know, they were much more receptive to the “kr&b” songs because they can’t get past their kneejerk judgment of boy bands. i find it a bit sad that some people won’t just enjoy music that sounds good but oh well
One time I played my liked songs playlist on Spotify in my friend's car and Daechwita came up. My friend said he liked the song and I told him that it was by Korean rapper Agust D. He said he'd check him out later. I knew that he did not like BTS at all and would've been much less receptive to it if he knew that the song was by one of the members. He did eventually find out but not after listening to the D-2 album ; ). He's not hostile to BTS nowadays but it's still sad that I even had to omit that.
If i want to listen to music that sounds good I'll listen to my favorite artists, boy bands seem like their whole appeal is looks. im into punk and alt which is why I hate corporate fabricated stuff has nothing to do with jealousy, if the artist is ugly I don't care that was never the point of music
@@usualdosage7287 you know you don't need to like it, I e.x. cannot be bothered with anything to heavy metal, or punk, it's not melodic enough for me to like it. I would however never run my mouth about the artists or cal then untalented or gay or whatever. I just don't listen to them as they don't appeal to me. And Kpop might not appeal to you, it's ok. Btw, I think just because something is punk, doesn't mean it's alternative and better art. My youth lays in the 80ies, and when every other band does punk, it's just as copied and fabricated to me as every other music that follows a trend. A lot of the music had also low artistic value. But the people were happy to make this music, they found fans that liked it, and that is all there should be.
I'm glad my husband doesn't fall into the category of men hating boy bands/kpop groups. He's always been openly into Kpop. He was a big fan of SNSD and Big Bang as a kid, LOL. Nowadays he's really into G-IDLE, XG, Stray Kids and SB19.
Thanks you for the support you give to our MAHALIMA (SB19). Because it shows that before physical appreciation, it is the love of music that really stands out. ❤❤ from the Philippines.
I mean, I'm a teenage guy and I don't have any problems with either boy bands or girls'. I prefer the 'live and let live' motto. If you like 'em, cool. If you don't, cool. But imo why a lot of guys are jealous/envious of them is that , in general, they're insecure about their own masculinity, so calling other men gay is pretty easy compared to trodding on the path of developing their own version of healthy masculinity. But yk, are there any prevalent role models for those guys who really want to practice healthy masculinity in the mainstream media? The popular aspects are either feminine guys or the red-pill thing. So can't blame them too tbh.
BTS reading "they don't create their music" comment with their 200+ writing and producing credits on their bag. But yeah, I too feel like it's a competition thing, men are scared that men that are not manly enough gets all the female following instead of them. I also feel like male gaze and female gaze plays a role as well as men just not understanding what majority of women or girls actually like.
BTS has a lot of artistic integrity and influence in their music. They are all members of the Korean Copyright Association and have songwriting credits, producing credits or composing credits on almost all of their roughly 300 songs. I guess this could actually be one of the reasons why BTS surprisingly has a quite large male following aswell. I have seen countless times that guys who find out that BTS actually writes a lot of their own stuff and are able to play an extremely large variety of instruments, they get fans of BTS or at least express some sort of respect. I think it is kind of funny that boy bands get a lot of hate because they seem to portray a perfect image of a male with emotional and technical skills, and thats why males who lack those skills precieve them as some sort of threat and try their hardest to bring them down. Which means guys want to bring them down because females could develop to high of a standard for their potential partner. I think it is interesting to mention, that males have an extremely high standard for boy bands for guys to become fans aswell. Best example is BTS. BTS has a quite large male fanbase and it usually happenes a lot slower than with female fans. Guys seem to become genuine fans when they find out that BTS writes almost all of their songs and are involved in produncing and composing. That BTS can play a large variety of instruments but choose to dance, not because they lack the skill of playing instruments. That BTS spreads a positive and quite introspective message and admit to mistakes and question their position in society. Female fans know all of these things aswell. But guys need these facts served on a silver platter for them to take BTS seriously and in return have to explain themselves with these facts to other males why they find BTS interesting. Females also have a very high standard. But I guess we aren't as vocal or actually insecure about sharing our genuine interest. Male fans always seem like they have to explain themselves or validate their interest in BTS so they don't get mocked. There is unfortunately definitely a connection between something female fans find exciting and the impression that it is rooted in hysteria and not worthy of respect.
As a woman, guys just don't want to work to be liked. They want it easy. They are lazy. Thats their fault that they don't work on themselves and actually have emotional intelligence. If they actually took the time and work to work on themselves in the ways that girls/ woman actually liked (which to do that they need to listen and respect us as human beings and not as sex objects) then they would have a lot easier chance to have us be interested in them.
Y'all kpop fans weird i don't give a fuck that alot of women like them I'm not jealous it's like you said boy bands in general just seem like corporate industry plants, like a product
@@sofypi7493 Well one of her commenters on Instagram didn't know and was actually unaware that BTS write and produce their own stuff. I am trying to clear up this misconception or ignorance with my comment. Bc BTS is the exception to the rule and thats why they have such a large following...I wonder if they should be left out of a conversation like this, as she left out The Beatles.
@@usualdosage7287 You didn't actually read the whole comments from Annie X, did you? They are not really "corporate product" they also write their own stuff and made their own stuff despite they seemed like a "candy boy" at first glance just like what you said before but if you actually care to do research instead of bitching, we're good. If this is not obvious, idk how to explain it to you.
“One Direction has been booed, but Harry Styles not so much” literally shows a clip where someone from the crowd at the Grammy’s yelled at him to get off the stage 🫠
I feel like a lot of these dudes that hate boy bands and k-pop feel intimidated. They hate that girls swoon over them. They hate that they’re good-looking while simultaneously also being charming and talented. They know they can’t compete so they get in their feelings instead of focusing on what they can offer. I also think misogyny comes into play; whatever girls and women like is deemed “cringy.” Hair, nails, skincare, fashion, etc. being examples. If we love boy bands and/or k-pop, we’re obnoxious and childish. If we love any other genres or artists, we’re a pick-me looking for attention. You can’t win. When k-pop comes into play, racism can be a big factor, too. They feel upset that a man of a race they see as inferior is being given so much female attention.
@@bannedmann4469 What’s a synonym you would rather us use? Because it’s the right term, but if you don’t like buzzwords I understand. Maybe men should stop feeling so emotional about women enjoying and liking things differently from them.
@@bannedmann4469 Why are you using me as a way to speak to an entire group? I am not part of this heavily conflicted group you think I am. Men should be able to express their emotions freely and healthily, but it’s not healthy to constantly hate on other people. Pessimism is draining not only for the people around you but oneself. Do not compare expressing everyday emotions to expressing misogynistic ideology.
16:30 i might be biased in saying this since i will admit i do enjoy BTS's music, but I think to make the claim that they "do very little in creating their songs" is kind of a generalization of boy bands. they are very active with producing and writing their songs, even choreography. a little research would show that. i could see his original point being applied to other boy bands, even kpop ones, but bts is not one of those. however, i do agree with the toxicity surrounding only caring about appearances. however, that is more of a critique of fan culture not the groups themselves. also to take into account korea's long history of extremely toxic beauty standards
I love how the one who hates bts knows nothing about bts because they said they hate them for not writing their music when thats literally what bts is known for which is writing their music and talking openly about their feelings, its what makes them stand out in the kpop industry and to some extent the western industry as well.
@@mateenahmad9960 And you think they don't hate on those too? Dudes literally shit on everything girls like because of the fact that they're things liked by girls. Not every guy does, of course, but a large amount does. I've seen it time and time again. And I've always read girls saying the same thing I said. It's unfortunately, the truth. I really don't understand how you can't see the amount of times guys, dudes, grown men just make fun of things girls enjoy. And it's always just the girls, never the boys. I absolutely hate this pointless sex war that has been perpetuated for decades and is still being perpetuated by people that apparently never see how girls, how women are treated by society. My ass it doesn't happen.
I'm gonna be honest A lot of the comments here are very sadly heteronormative. And I think that's another distinct thing to point out. We have a lot of comments saying guys hate boy bands because women have higher standards, or that fragile masculinity is the reason why men can't like what women like. It's mostly a man vs woman discourse about their perceived preferences, and it sucks because people have fallen to the trap of a divisive comparison based on gender. This is why there are comments like "I'm a metalhead but I love pop music", people who have to preface their comments by saying "I am a man/woman but-" or those who claim some music are guilty pleasures, when freely admitting something is just fine. It's sad that some facets of music have been gendered for absurd reasons, and people often fail to remove those lenses in active discussion (even though they have good intentions).
No fr this is becoming all about that. I guess it would be more nuanced if we were talking about girls and girl related topic in view of women since I think adding homosexual pov that make men in the comments furious and angry for no reason
A lot of kpop artist write there music, and those who don't, usually they like to take part in either the music or choreography. You see this a lot when kpop artist create solo works later down the line when they get more control
Not gonna lie there’s also a side that’s really sinister about it and it has to do with p3d0ph!les. It’s not just about boy bands any artist or actor who has majority teen girl fan base will get huggeee waves of hate (Justin Bieber for example) and want to know where the majority of the hate comes from? Older men. That’s right, Justin Bieber blew up around 16 and the majority of his fan base was like 14-17 year old girls, these old gross ass men would quite literally complain about teen girls liking boys their own age instead of liking some old ass men like them, literally trying to force underage girls to like older men by bashing him and making them feel ashamed for feeling attraction to their own age range 🤢🤢 Happened with BTS too they blew up in their early 20’s most of their fans at the time were around 16-19 I believe, hoards of older men coming after them saying they weren’t “man” enough. It’s definitely a manipulation tactic to try and make girls attracted to men way outside their age range 🤮
"overrated dudes that ordinary guys just don't stand a chance against" okay but ordinary guys also don't stand a chance against people like henry cavil or chris hemsworth for example, and I don't see this amount of hate towards them "cringe, corny" well do you think you don't look cringe displaying your jealousy against people who you'll never meet? "we're not okay with softboys" oh so you're homophobic "bts do very little in creating their songs" absolutely not true, they've always been very involved in their creative work and it can be seen specially in their recent solo releases "i'm pretty sure i could kick their asses" i'd like to see them try if it's that easy So it looks like it boils down to misogyny, homophobia and racism
@@hermanmusimbi4337 comparing a kpop group with pornstars is insane. Like i don't care about male kpop bands, but they at least work like hell to make songs, choreographies and tours, and some of the music actually have positive lyrics for young people to listen. But the porn industry is just a huge damage to society that put women in miserable working conditions, and create a very damaging view on women just for some fucked up men fufill their fantasies. Maybe women are not concerned with a simple "beauty standard" in pornstars the same way men are with asian dudes singing sometimes shirtless.
@@hermanmusimbi4337 the "racism" is in bts's case, many of the hate comes from the fact that they are an east asian boyband as well, misogyny is very obvious, the fact that majority of the fans are female. The beatles used to get sooooo much hate before, when their fandom was mostly girls. Now that the male found them and finally knew how great they are, they started being respected. (the same thing will probably happen to bts in a few decades or less, due to the fact that they have the authenticity aspect hidden behind the good looks and general manufactured industry, just like how the beatles were, their male fandom is starting to grow very fast).
I would argue that BTS Army is now growing with a male demographic over the years based on the fact at one of their concerts, I think it was at PTD Las Vegas, they did a roll call of men who were at the concert to yell and shout their presence and there was a roar. It was LOUD AF.
my dad had a low influence in my life for being a male role model, I had to teach myself what is ethical and morally right growing up, my mom was there too but I had it rough with her, what she had to teach me came in a form of punishing me and I understand why she did that. Now I discovered BTS towards my early adult life and all I can say is that they had a positive influence on my life when it comes to the lyrics and meaning of their songs or what they stand for, and they served as a very good role model in my life as well. IMO the ones who put out hate; they don't understand or they won't try to understand what's going on before they judge someone.
I really think the evolutionary aspect is a massive stretch and is not nearly as as contributive, if at all, to the hate as misogyny, their general lack of quality, and hating on them becoming a cultural tradition. Other "evolutionarily desirable" groups of men (or at least by the standards the studies you provided layed out) dont get any of the same hatred at all. Likewise, we dont see the same hateful reaction to popular female influencers from girls and women. It really doesn't make much sense to me.
I get called gay all the time for liking kpop boy groups because that's just what everyone assumes. I try showing my friends and family and all the guys seem so uncomfortable. Saying things like they look like girls, why are they wearing makeup, etc, etc. It's definitely the fandoms and culture who turn away guys but then they turn around and collect baseball cards or go to a basketball game to see their favorites play. I've just accepted that kpop and boy groups in general are aimed for the girls and while guys are welcomed it's not really for us.
Don’t worry dude. If you like music like TWICE, they have a lot of male fans so it won’t be weird if you also join in. The girl group sector of kpop welcomes ya 🎉
As a dude, i used to shit on boy groups when I was in middle school. I used to hate like JB, 1D, 5SOS and all that, but in high school I pulled a 180 and started liking kpop and genuinely just changed my minds about all the boys that girls crazed. Now I just dont care, if they make good music, then I like them
In the past I think my distaste for boy bands came mostly from insecurity. I was envious of the effect they had on girls around me especially the ones I liked or was dating. I don’t think we need evolutionary psych to explain this one 😂
I noticed too that a lot of the boy bad hate comes from male insecurity. They somehow feel less in comparison, and I swear it's mostly very young men but not exclusively them. Some men in their 20s and 30s can get very VERY nasty towards boyband members and their fans. I'm a 36 years old BTS army, and as an army I know most BTS fans are adults. Probably because they write their own lyrics and have a lot of creative freedom, they appeal to adults also. Their lyrics and concepts are super deep, and they rarely speak about traditional romantic love. We get TONS of hate from males that think we are teenagers, so I know first hand how it is. And let's be clear, the hate is unfair to teenagers too cause young girls have the right to enjoy what they love, and passion shouldn't be confused with "histeria". People portray fan girls as crazy or less capable of reason and that is misogyny, cause when a man cries and screams when his favorite sports team loses no one blinks an eye.
True most Army are actually adults because when you compare bts concert tickets to other boybands you will see that the teenagers are way less than other boybands and I think that the reason why bts have a lot of adults army is there music and lyrics as you said but also them as human because the thing with BTS is that they show us there weakness whether it's by them speaking to us directly or by their songs that's why despite them being that popular when I watch there shows and lives I can relate to them of course I see them as talented people and famous and rich but also I see them as normal people just like us and also they always remind humble and that is rare to see in the music industry and they always been grateful to their fans and they know so well that's the fans are what made them popular and they always talked about that
Insecure of what? They're lame lol no, believe me, i DON'T wanna look like them or being popular like that, or having girls wetting themselves for me. They just suck and look pansy lol
Here are few reasons which I think can be some of the factors: 1. Because Boy bands sets unrealistic absurd expectations(which are highly PRed and manufactured) for Boys/Men in Girls/Women, whether it's how to act, behave, look or dress. This can be proven for every era if you pick up any popular Boy Bands of that era and then see changes in Boys/Men of that era. Same is applicable for vice versa. 2. Implicit or explicit comments or comparison of their Boyfreinds or in dating world with some member of Boy bands. It could be linked to the point you made in the video about Mate Competition. 3. Lack of tolerance to criticism amongst Girls/Women towards their favorite Boy Bands whether it's on twitter or facebook. Doxxing, hating, cancelling someone is common among fangirls of these boybands if someone dare to criticize or not like them. Criticism of them is a great litmus test to see why many men dislike boybands which unfortunately seem to be the source for this type of behavior since you rarely see any acceptance or call out from the artists for this type of unhinged behavior. You may find them here in this video too defending their boybands in some form or other. 4. I would say a Jealousy of some form, whether is it's success, fame, wealth or looks is definitely a contributing factor to this. 5. "Boy Bands caters only to women" Something which caters only to women naturally brings out a dislike to the people who it isn't catered to. Same can be said for vice versa like Something catering to only men. So, I wouldn't call it "Misogyny". 6. Hatred of Celebrity worship culture in general.
I can believe lot of situations can tick the boxes 4 & 6 without people even realising. Like underdog syndrome where people generally want to root for the lesser known ones and dislike the popular ones.
As a dude who grew up with a disdain for boy bands, a lot of that stemmed from a mixture of body image/self esteem issues and general insecurity. Seeing these groups gain the affection and attention for being attractive and talented is something I always craved during this time of my life. I suspect this is the case for many other young men who have similar viewpoints. Our desire to be desired as individuals fuels both the fans of boy bands and the haters of boy bands in distinct ways. I personally feel like an increased focus on media literacy would help these haters enjoy (or at the very least understand) boy bands better and process there feelings. I have lots of thoughts on this topic but I just wanted to get my main points out into the ether.
I’d say you called it, since It’s a similar case for me as a young man, except I don’t hate boy bands at all or their fans, but still have that insecurity/self esteem issues as of recent.
I live in the Midwest and work in a steel shop so you can already guess the type of work environment and coworkers I have to deal with. Does it make me hesitant to share my interest in kpop with them? Absolutely not. I'm constantly annoying these dudes with song recommendations, facts about my favorite groups and idols, and why JungKook is my bias. It's always unsolicited but their reactions are entertaining. Too many guys are so petrified of things that challenge or go against their personal perception of masculinity that they overcompensate and feel the need to put others down who enjoy said things. Or they're jealous, either way it all stems from a place of insecurity.
Or maybe their reaction isn't to kpop, but instead to you being annoying. Honestly, do you wanna be that guy who keeps bringing up some music no one cares about, regardless of what genre it is.
@@ghostofantarctica8216 it's a two way street homie. They annoy me with their shit too lol I know way more about the WWE and my coworkers sex lives than I would care to but it's how we entertain ourselves to get thru the work day. It's just my interest is the least conventionally masculine.
But BTS doesn't fit the Wiki definition either because 1. members have writing and producing credits all over their albums and 2. they don't write love songs marketed toward girls. (are there some love songs, yes. of course. is it even half their songs? no) Yet, when I got into BTS provings this to my male friends and brothers didn't sway anyone's mind on their boy band status. In fact a surprising amount of guys I know clung to the boy band moniker even when I asked them to define a boyband and then gave examples as to why BTS wasn't a boyband by their own definition. They just moved on to another definition (that i ruled out) until they ran out and said 'whatever, they're still a stupid boy band.' Several years into this anecdotal study I have two conclusions as to the hate. 1.they raise the bar of male beauty standards 2. Men, at least in America, aren't trying to be men by women's preference. They're trying to be men by men's preferences. Guys don't want to be what women want in men... they want to be what men want in men. And men don't want 'soft boys', even if women do. What gets me the most about the hate is that it's manifested not by the band itself, but soley on women's response to the band. They know nothing about a group but they instinctively know they hate it and just make up reasons? Take for example the guy you quoted in this video "BTS themselves do very little in creating their songs." Meanwhile BTS members have broken records for writing credits. one writes and produces for other artists regularly. They have this knee jerk reaction to hate a group for no other reason than that women like them.... why not question that about yourself? If you dont like it because you dont like it, thats fine, but why make up reasons? If that guy was told about BTS' participation in making their own music do you think he'd change his mind? In my (again, anecdotal) experience, they just shift to another made up reason. TL;DR Version: It's not the boy band that they hate. It's that the boy band doesn't cater to men. Seeing a group of men cater to women's preferences in men makes them very uncomfortable because what women like isn't what men like in men. They're not manly enough. They don't appeal to men enough. They only appeal to women. They committed the sin of being attractive to women and not men. which is somehow gay.
I smell…Jealous😂 And maybe hate of industry farms. But mostly they didn’t hate Boy Bands but they jealous of love and popularity that boy bands have. And I think it about female/male gaze too. Tough boys can be really sad because it’s hard to understate for them that their idea about the dream boy do not coincide with the female. they can't fit this image of the perfect man. But should they? It’s another question.
One thing I feel is important is that Boybands rely heavily on sex-appeal, something which is going to completely bounce off of heterosexual males. I also feel like a lot of them drive to create a parasocial relationship amongst their followers, which also skeeves me out.
i can't speak for every fanbase, but the one direction one contains lots of lesbians so sex-appeal doesn't really apply in that case yet they still love 1d. I think the main reason boybands are hated is misogyny.
i don’t think that people like these bands mainly because they find them sexy. i can’t speak for all of them because i’m only a fan of bts, but this could very well apply to some others too. if the music was lackluster compared to their looks they would not have this massive amount of streams on their music. i have been a fan of bts for a very long time and i got into them because of the relatable message behind their music and their song autumn leaves has been my #1 played song on spotify for many years. i listen to it almost every day even though i don’t keep up with bts outside of their music releases. a lot of people are so quick to dismiss bts’ popularity because they are attractive young men, but a big amount of their fans are into them because of their music and many of us are very interested in the intricacy of their lyricism and production instead of their abs or whatever, and it feels extremely frustrating when i say i’m a fan of bts and people immediately assume i’m some horny 13 year old. people really don’t know what the fandom is like outside of these extreme examples
@i eat chairs this. But for one direction. I do think Harry Styles is hot AF but he's also a really good writer for his songs and he can play guitar and piano and not to mention good singing in itself is a skill too. He's also very sweet and respectful of everyone no matter what.
I genuinely agree with the conclusion you came to on this video. I do think that the popularity of "softer" guys -- especially popularity to the level boy bands get -- conflicts with the "alpha males get women" faux-evolutionary worldview a lot of these guys have, and that upending of their worldview is disturbing to them so they react really violently angrily against it. However, I think one thing this video seems to ignore is the difference between "marketed at" teenage girls and "happens to appeal to" teenage girls. It seems to me that it's very consistent that male hate is specifically targeted at things that are specifically built (whether by executives or, in the case of some internet personalities, the person themself) for maximum teen girl appeal. As soon as Harry Styles wasn't in the "boy band" anymore and was being more apparently authentic & doing a style of music that boys in my generation & our dads liked, then guys were much more okay with him. Timothee Chalamet wasn't trained & styled for teen girl appeal, teen girls just happen to love him. Even the Jonas Brothers, who play their own instruments so you left them out of this conversation, are consistent with this. They were recruited and groomed by a label in order to target the teen girl demographic, and they get a lot of hate too. But if you just HAPPEN appeal to teenage girls, and you're authentically "soft" rather than groomed & styled that way, then guys don't seem as threatened by that, probably because these ideal guys who come across as apparently more "authentic" have an attractiveness that, because it's a bit rougher around the edges, perhaps seems more attainable.
Exactly.. it's okay not to like bts or kpop but some people literally make fake accts just to leave hate comments.. and some are just racist and ignorant comments Like a certain black Podcaster said he hates a certain group for no reason
right and theyll even make up reasons that literally ARENT TRUE in the slightest just to dislike them. like the guy in the video who was like “oh bts dont do a lot in their music creating process” or something along those lines. like tell that to their 200+ writing credits..
I feel like it's just the good ol' "it's all unfair" deal. A "normal" dude sees some "girly" bois dancing around and singing in a high-pitched voice and for whatever reason all the girls are swooning over those bois, but not the "normal" one. And this "normal" guy heard before that women are supposed to value proper MANLY MEN, and he's OBVIOUSLY way more manly than those boyband sissies, yet he fails to attract a single partner. This whole thing then turns into hate towards the boybands (because it's more acceptable to do that to other men) and laughter/ridicule at the teen girls (because "they don't know better"), with obviously the extreme form of this being the somewhat recent "Tate cult" where dudes start directly hating women for all kinds of "reasons".
@@_tripalong not everything is toxic masculinity. If you want the real core of the issue, men hate boybands for the same reason many women hate photoshopped supermodels. They create an unrealistic and artificial image especially made for the opposite sex to swoon over, and in doing so it raises the bar tremendously for "normal" people, and basically invalidates them. If men hating BTS is toxic masculinity, women hating Victoria's secret models must be toxic femininity, no?
Korean men are surprisingly more comfortable in their masculinity than western men. Like they even like boygroups too, they don't care about the "feminine" look or the makeup.
I will rewatch this later with my husband (he's Korean) & see what he thinks. Thanks, Donna! EDIT: We're older (40s), from the 1st generation hallyu (Korean wave.)
As a kid to even present day, I hated almost every single live show ever on Nick, however I remember Big Time Rush having some good songs, tho I only remember one or two of them. I gotta look up their songs honestly.
I will try to be as transparent as possible 10 years ago when i was 18~ i used to hate them mainly because i was a sheep and repeated what the majority of guys around me said (i wanted other guys approval of me) (yes i know it was pathetic) also yes i was kinda jealous of them but thats about it Now at 27 im just doing my own thing and couldn't give a damn about what other people like or hate Right now The only criteria that makes me hate or like a music is if it annoyes me or if its fun to listen to (i actually like some of their songs now)
BTS fan here. When people say things like 'their fans are only teenage girls', it's really hurtful, not because it's untrue : the majority of the fandom is indeed young women. But rather because they mean it as an insult, as if we teenage girls were unable to appreciate music and art. They are basically implying that we are shallow and only care about the looks. That we don't care about the lyrics, singing, rapping etc. Yes, we do like their looks, we do write about it on social media, we do collect pictures of them, but why would that mean it's not about the music too ? It's just really hurtful to be called shallow like that, based on the fact that we are young women/girls. I understand that from an outside perspective you could think they are manufactured and don't write/create their songs. I guess it's obvious I will say this since I'm a fan, but they really do write their own songs and have a lot of creative freedom. It's not necessarily the case for every kpop group though but BTS are definitely musicians and lyricists, every member with his own specialties. If you watch their content you can see how much they care about their music. Again I understand the 'manufactured' point of view because before getting into BTS and kpop in general I thought like this too. I thought, 'they're handsome and can dance, that must mean they don't have any musical talent and people love them just because of those pretty faces.' So trust me when I say this : they do have talent and work hard on their musical abilities. I don't hope for people to like us as a fandom because the bad image we have will never go away. And frankly there are a lot of problems in the fandom. I just wish BTS wasn't so hated and disrespected as musicians and performers. (sorry if there are any mistakes, English is not my first language)
"But rather because they mean it as an insult, as if we teenage girls were unable to appreciate music and art" Nah I think you are taking this to the worst possible extreme. Its not that teenage girls like that music, its the mostly no one else does so only teenage girls remain. If the quality of the music was by far the main driving factor in the fandom wouldn't that lead to a pretty mixed fanbase? But its not so the appeal has to come from something that the the majority of the fandom have in common. So yeah I would argue that most boyband fans(and from the BTS fans I know personally) and also BTS fans are not very emotionally mature and fall hard for a parasocial relationship.
@@tostupidforname I understand where you’re coming from, but look at your own comment : You’re saying I’m taking it to the extreme when I say people assume we don’t care about the music that much because the fandom is mostly young women. Then you are kind of doing that exact thing ? You say that since the fandom is mostly teenage girls then it means music is not the main driving factor ? I understand your point about how if it was the case, the fandom would be more mixed, but in my opinion it also comes from prejudice, for example if a guy perceives the fandom as immature and hysteric, he won’t even try to listen in the first place. I think you could also be surprised by the variety of genders, ages and nationalities present in the fandom. Of course people can’t always see that because there is a silent part of the fandom. But that’s not really what’s important in the conversation here. Yes the first appeal can be other things for a lot of fans. For example, when I first became a fan, I also loved the music videos and dancing. But what I’m trying to say here is that it doesn’t mean we don’t care about the music at all ! If we thought it was bad we wouldn’t be fans, no matter how attractive we think they are. Of course there are many different kind of fans. There ARE some people who are immature, delusional and fall hard for a parasocial relationship like you said. And those fans are the loudest. What I really wanted to express in my comment is that, like in your reply, people say the music doesn’t matter to us just because we are teenage girls. I don’t really know how to explain this better, I keep repeating the same thing. When i say it’s hurtful it really IS. I am someone who cares deeply about their art and creative process. It’s very important to me in so many ways and I know a lot of BTS fans whi feel the same. That is why I’m trying to argue here, I’m trying to defend my love for something really important and inspiring to me and people are calling that love fake.
This is not true most bts fans are adults you can research there concert demographics and you will see that people in there 20s to 40s are way more than 10s, i saw one concert were teenagers were less than 10% and this is wasn't a small concert it was a stadium, bts definitely have teenager fans but they are not the majority the only true thing about bts fans is that there are mostly women
i am so excited to see you cover this topic! i think i'm first! edit: not the trolls in the comments already giving us more anecdotal evidence for this theory
In Kpop there is no such thing as the stereotype that they don't write their songs or don't play instruments, maybe they don't play instruments in concerts but to produce and write their songs they know how to play instruments like guitar, bass, piano, and even the turntables.
@@joooker13 Its not true. A lot of kpop stans dont check the credits of the songs. They dont play the instruments or write most of the things in thier songs, hell even the backing vocals is done by people who imitate them in the studio but not the actual member
@@joooker13 I don't know about other Kpop groups but I know BTS and they genuinely can play instruments. 3 of the guys got classical piano training when young, one plays the saxophone and trumpet, 4 play the guitar and 2 the drums. All of them have producing and composing skills and are credited by the korean copyright association. All of them play the piano well enough to use producing equipment. They have filmed themselves doing so and there is an abundance of footage of them playing instruments causally.
@@dasanii2467 There are many kbands like The Rose, Lucy, Day6, ect that play their own instruments and have songs credited to their name. There are also self-producing groups like Stray Kids, BTS, and Seventeen as well as newer groups who're learning along the way and taking part in their discography like Xdinary Heroes, TXT. People can look overall on the industry, but not see that there is actual diversity and artists who're capable of being creative that they miss out on.
@@joooker13 I mean, we literally have bands in K-pop too. DAY6 member Young K has composed, produced and written a good part of every album that DAY6 has ever brought out. The same counts for other Korean bands too, like Xdinary Heroes, ONEWE, FT. Island, CNBLUE and The Rose. As far back as BIGBANG, who debuted in 2005 and are still going now, members of Korean groups have been writing their own songs. Hell, G-Dragon was literally known for writing some of BIGBANG their biggest hits. And you have 'self-produced' groups like Seventeen too, who handle everything from their music (which Woozi has a big part in), to lyrics (all of the hip-hop unit members write their own lyrics) to even their dances (Hoshi has done a lot of this). With a little googling you would know how many Korean idols are credited as composers, lyrics writers and more.
Personally i think the main reason some men hate boybands is that it goes against what they've been taught and it scares them; they've been taught what traits are masculine and that women will be attracted to those, and that's what they think all men should perform. Then they see a bunch of guys who are the opposite of what they think men should be; they act soft, they show their emotions, and they *gasp* wear makeup. And not only are they accepted, they're praised by people and especially women. So it confuses and angers those men. So i do think it mostly comes from their patriarchal minds.
I would say with bts it different because they are not marketing for teenager girls yes sure they have more females than males but the reason behind that is because people assume that their music is just like other boy bands and because they started Young when in reality most of their fans are adults and only few of them are teenagers and it shows in the statistic in this video and actually they started as a hip hop group and two of the members were underground rappers and another member was a street dancer and at the time when BTS debuted it wasn't an important thing in K-pop for groups to write their own music and since their debut all of them have credits in their songs(RM is the youngest and second most-credited songwriter in the association's(korea)history with more than 200 credits) and even one of the members who was an underground rapper sign with the company to be a producer and the three rappers of bts already released mixtapes and I saw a lot of reaction of dudes who actually don't like boy band or they are just into hip-hop become so shocked after reacting to bts because it's not what they actually expected because BTS focuses on everything they have their looks and dancing that attached teenagers but at the same time their music is not just about love it's about multiple topics in society like mental health self-love and they would criticize the education system of Korea and talk about the problems of the society etc... and they would do lives and releases a lot of interviews and stuff where they are talking about the process of making the album and unlike the Western groups who broke up and didn't resign their contract bts actually did resigned there contract in 2018/2019 for more 7 years and even now the reason why they have a break is because of military service and I know a lot of people would come and say that they are fake I would answer you that I've been following bts for 7 years now and I've known ton of boy bands no boy bands come close to the relationship that bts have between themselves don't tell me that a group would stayed and lived together at the same house for ten years(some members live together for 13 years)and how in the first place they become famous even in Korea there were much more popular groups than them who actually have big companies that can promote them and fun fact people would call them ugly because other groups have more handsome guys and how out of all the American and British boy bands that speak English they become more famous than them when we know so well how hard it is for a Korean speaker group to be that famous in America and it wasn't for like one or two years it's now for six years and BTS are now almost in their 30s (jin and suga are already 30 years old)
Never have I ever felt shameful in calling myself a BTS fan. They are artists with true talent. They have been discredited by society but Im thankful that I gave them a chance without any prejudice.
What’s is odd to me is rock bands from back in the day wore makeup and “feminine” clothing as well. Like look at Led Zeppelin shows during their prime in the 70s. They’d wear high heels, makeup, tight clothing. Punk bands in the 2000s did even more. And yet the people consider them to be like the peak representation of masculine artists. But this Seems to be a particular problem with kpop because a lot of westerners have, for many years, attempted to emasculate Asians.
I think it's related to the music genre as well. Rock and metal sound more "hardass" so to speak, and overall sound much more dominant; they give a sense of power when you listen to them. Mötley Crüe is good example I think, because even though they dressed feminine and wore makeup, they did get girls a lot (like A LOT), they still had a huge male audience too because of the aggressiveness of the hair metal genre. Not to mention a good amount of their songs, especially in terms of lyrics, catered to a male audience in a many ways. Looks that kill and girls girls girls come to mind immediately.
@auren4048 There's something I noticed about the way women tend to be portrayed with rockstars vs. with boybands, and I'm starting to wonder if it plays a part as well? I've seen this discussed with another comment. In many music videos I've seen of rockstars, most of the women are portrayed as disposable "props" to say the least? And it's no surprise that many rock songs tend to be about sex. Like in Girls Girls Girls by Mötley Crue, most of the women are strippers who surround the guys and there's a lot of nudity as well. Contrast it with most of the stuff you see with boy bands, who tend to portray the girls as someone who matters to them? They seem to be constantly addressing them and being sweet with them, talking about romance and happily ever after and all that?
I hated Boys band in my younger years but once i've give it some interest (thanks to my girlfriend), i've learned to like it. Even if i prefere girls band (it's just a matter of taste, i appreciate more a woman voice than a male one when it comes to singing.) i can appreciate some bands. I have to confess i'm jealous of those good looking guys. ^^' But now i have some posters hanging right in front of me and i just don't care so much. I've learned it's a tough job and it require talent etc... I really love K-pop but it took me time to learn, to open up to new things. I think most guys don't want to open up to these things because they will feel less manly and will feel like they are not as seductive than these guys. (Wich is probably true, come on have you seen them? ;) ) At least i think we can agreed on one thing: male boys bands look better than the girls one. It feel less oversexualised (even if it's a bit.) or disgusting. Guys are rarely half naked, they don't wear skirts or really short t-shirts. I don't know if boys band have as strange fans as the girls band can have... BUT one thing is problematic in this business, especially in K-Pop: how the fan reacts to personnal matter of a group's member. In my opinion, they should have relationships, enjoy their young adult life etc... They have the right to live and even to make mistake if they want. They don't have to submit to their fans and their surreal expectations. They are humans, god damn it ! :/
I do think the "these guys are taking away potential mates" thing is an element, especially when combined with the the addition of "they are taking them away from ME a Real Man." I think the purely competition aspect is combined with patriarchal ideas of what makes a man-- the kind of man that patriarchy believes should get women; when a man who doesn't fulfill this expectation gets as much or more interest from women, that's a problem. The attractive man is somehow a fake, or not even a man at all; the women are experiencing attraction "incorrectly," and SHOULD actually prefer someone more in line with male expectations of masculinity. The perfect encapsulation of this is Rudolph Valentino. Despite existing long before boy bands were even thought of, women were Wild for him, and men committed themselves to hating him. Guys wrote newspaper pieces about why women should want a "real man" like John Barrymore rather than Valentino; they claimed he was gay; they went into hysterics when he wore jewelry; one even challenged him to a fight to prove all this (and then chickened out)-- all of this despite Valentino's affairs with women and multiple marriages, successful career, interest in boxing and sports and chiseled physique. Basically Valentino was proof that men could be different than what was typically on offer, and in fact could look, act, and dress in ways women actually preferred to the patriarchal standard-- for men who were committed to the idea that their own image of masculinity was the only valid one, Valentino was not only competition, he was a threat on every level. I think boy bands in general but Especially kpop generate hate for a lot of the same reasons; men want women to be attracted to them while they uphold male (and often patriarchal) ideas of masculine appeal, and are mad when they don't. When a man comes along who actually pays attention to what women think is attractive and behaves or appears in that way, they prove that men are not somehow incapable of pleasing women, and that men who work TO please women get the lion's share of female attention and interest. This is threat to patriarchal ideas because a. what men think should be good enough for everyone, and b. this could cause women to develop standards and awareness! And since the men doing the critiquing are usually nowhere near as attractive or successful as the men being critiqued, the only effective tool the critique-ers have is the claim of inauthenticy-- these men are not what they seem because their talent is not real, or because their maleness is not.
Kpop has all kinds of genres ranging from Pop, Hip Hop, RnB, EDM, Rock, Tropical House, Ballads, Classical, Traditional, etc. and there's definitely a lot of songs that have really catchy and genuinely good music and many diverse, interesting and unique groups that write and produce their own music. There's nothing wrong with liking Kpop.
@@Kalakeiko you are literally everywhere when there BTS is mentioned, did you ever seen army begging like these under other group content? We literally started with 10 army fan acc on Twitter,who were RAT and fan of ugly boy BTS according to kpop stan and now that they have gained fan , you guys just can't accept the fact that those 7 boy has fan who are not interested in kpop
Coming from a girl who used to spend a little bit of time hating boy bands as a Teen. a) I hated them because every other girl seemed to love them, and I thought I needed to find a way to be different and not like other girls and b) I thought if I publicly hated them I could avoid resentment and disapproval from my male peers, who directed resentment and disapproval towards any girl who was heavily invested in a boy band or similar figure (Justin Bieber etc). Really, if I'm being honest with myself, as a teen I was of utterly zero social value whatsoever. I had no popularity and NO dating value. Considering this, I probably thought hating on boybands and similar figures would give me some kind of dating value or social value to male peers, lol. It never did. People, just please wait till you get out of highschool before you start worrying about how undateable you are, the real world cares so much less. New thought: On the other side of the coin, I had such chronically low self esteem as a teen, and at 15, I had seen all my peers going on dates, getting together, reaching all the coming-of-age "dating milestones". I thought I wasn't worthy of the dating world because the closest I had come to it was a year 7 boy asking me if I was a lesbian because he'd actually never seen me with a boy, romantically. Way to rub it in you little brat. In a way I probably saw the girls who lurrrrrved boybands as my own competition. As far as I was concerned every girl in the world was prettier, smarter, sweeter, cuter than me, so it's not like any of the song lyrics could have ever beeen written about someone like me either. These song lyrics are about girls like them, and they're being sung by boys like them. In short, "Boys Like Them would never sing Songs Like That about Girls Like Me."
As a kpop fan (not stan bc the fandoms are toxic as hell), I’ve personally seen a lot of hate on twitter. Most of the people who I’ve seen hate on kpop groups (the boy ones) are soccer stans who love to use the xenophobic “they look like girls!”. Most of it is trying to emasculate and feminise these men to try and “one up” or “prove they’re better” than them. Also, a kpop group that has more male than female fans is Twice. The gender ratio for their fans is pretty even.
i think they meant kpop bgs that have more male than female fans, and also twice lost a majority of their male fanbase once they stopped doing their cute concepts and moved onto mature concepts, which is really creepy honestly😭
In the kpop industry most of the groups have a dating ban to make their fans feel like there could be a potential chance of their idols liking them back. Kinda an artificial delusion. Thus, calling them boyfriend/girlfriend bands is pretty accurate lol
10 points for adding Lucas! You just gave me nostalgia. And as a kid, I used to enjoy New Kids on the Block and mexican boy band Magneto. But as I hit puberty, I gravitated to rougher sounding groups. And poo pooed "sissy" (my words) sounding bands. As you get older you forget about both and cringe at memories of you being a boy band hater.
Anybody else just hates the commercialization of culture? I see no difference between a boyband and, say, Taylor Swift or Drake. I also hate Marvel movies and WWE. Yeah, I'm really fun to be around.
I have a question.and a theory. While the late 90s boy bands were hated on, Black or African American boy bands or R&B boy bay bands seemed to be more celebrated by men in the black community and other racial groups. For example I met a metal head who did not like NSYNC or BSB. But one of his first concerts were a BoysIIMen concert and he enjoyed it."If It Isn't Love" by New Edition seems to be played in every black cookout. A lot of 90s babies were born because their parents played Jodeci. If you don't know who they are look it up. Why do y'all think that is? Why are boy bands like BoyslIMen or Jodeci. Is it because they were not manufactured and were childhood friends? Is there a psychological reason. Because most black bands at the time do seem to meet in their neighborhood or school. Are they more real or something? Authentic? Better Vocals? Have different target demographics? Because I did notice that black boy bands were not targeted towards teenage girls. Not even black teenage girls. Boy bands like Jodeci targeted audience towards black adults or R&B fans of any race. I just thought it was interesting.
As a woman i dont like boy bands because i see them as a corporate product and the exact opposite of what i want music to be. I dont have a problem if people like them but that doesnt mean i cant be critical of them when discussing my opinions. Theyre the musical equivalent of harem anime or capeshit. A lot of music fans dislike boybands for this exact reason. Just because you like them doesnt mean there arent legitimate artistic criticisms to be had here.
As a girl, I hated one direction so much when I was young because my family would goad me saying I was in love with them when I just didnt care. Them pushing me one way made me beeline the other way.
I am an ARMY (BTS fan) and I think racism, xenophobia and superiority complex play a big part. Edit: I want to expand this comment. I'll only speak about BTS because I don't know any other boyband. As an army I've often seen that people cherry pick some immature fans and some attention seeking cosplayers of army, and make them face or representative of the entire fandom, who have a population of any country in the world. And thus, we have the stereotype that army is toxic. This is not the full picture. While I agree that there are certainly rotten apples who make us look bad, who are still a big chunk of the fandom, they are certainly not the representative. Any immature behaviour is often called out by responsible fans, but as I said army is as big as a country's population we can't control everyone. But the "toxic" label and "15 year old screaming teen girls" stereotype are obviously the result misogyny, racism, xenophobia and superiority complex of the Western men and music industry.
I think there's something missing here in this analysis. For example, let's try to make an inverted universe where popularists (a.k.a. jocks) are the boybands instead of the model boys. What I imagine will happen is that most of the hatred will come from the Unpopulars instead of the model boys, because 'bruhh it's just too hard to start working out!'. That's because the muscled popularists are the archetypes of peak masculinity, the male ideal of strong, thriving in challenges, capable of facing anything. Masculinity is an ideal for even those 'model boys' to strive for and train to be better. If you dislike the peak masculinity, maybe you're just jealous or you are those people who hate masculinity as a whole. There is also a high possibility for hate because of their rebellious behavior, but those are generally frowned by the society as a whole. As many has commented here, it's more of the men's betrayal of their masculine values. They 'denied' their masculinity for something feminine such as feelings. Feelings and sensitivity are generally discouraged among men. Conversely, girls like those 'feminine' men because those men can touch their hearts. In conclusion, those boybands find themselves in a difficult position among men. The 'jocks' are hated by the people who don't want to improve themselves. The 'boybands' are hated by both of them.
Hm ... Here is why: A Boyband is Onlyfans for teenage girls. I said it here. It costs almost as much money as well if you want to stan them. Maybe more. And I think everything that wants to sell you either a girlfriend or boyfriend experience is creepy. Go outside and look for a real human being and grow as a person instead of rotting in your fantasy world that you bought for money. My hate is based on this: a predatory behavior sucking the lifeblood of a wonderful human emotion, to make money.
I feel like your argument about some "teenage girl interests" being less criticised is not very well supported by your examples. You cite Harry Styles and clearly he's still receiving a lot of hate for being liked by girls and being perceived as effeminate/gay. One Direction having been booed is very anecdotal (other groups haven't so it's not like it's a criteria), but also Styles was heckled at the Grammys just last February. And overall isn't it just in support of what you say later, that the hate diminishes with the aging of band members and their public? Also I'm confused as whether you include Twilight and High School Musical in the hated or praised media? With the editing and phrasing it sounds like you're putting it with the praised stuff, and if that's the case, I disagree so much. I was a teenager at that exact time and it was insane how they were put down for being liked by teenage girls, and how much at the same time girls around me who still liked them dissed them in public to be "not like the other girls". If I understood that part correctly, and in addition with what I said first, it kinda makes me think you might have (had) a very specific circle with opinions unrepresentative of the group you're trying to analyse here.
I disagree with the conclusion of the video: first of all, why not being in a boyband anymore is a testament to the performer's talent? Doesn't this mean that it is taken for granted that, somehow, boybands are less valuable than a single performer because of all the stereotypes and prejudice that are attached to them? Also, teenage girls' agency is never taken into account. It is taken for granted that they are victims of a system that exploits their hormones or whatever, as in they are not capable of liking an artist exactly because of that because they like their music/performance, etc. Imho, the reason why men tend to hate boybands so much is that boybands are created taking into account the female gaze not the male one. Once The Beatles started to present themselves in a less "pretty fashion" (therefore, "dissociating themselves symbolically" from their female audience) they were coincidently recognized by the male-dominated music industry. I don't know. It seems to me that the explanation, at the end of the day, is mostly misogyny and that men, generally speaking, tend to like men.
Great video ! As a boy, I have a better understanding of the hate dudes can have about boys band. For the part concerning the fact that boy bands are considered gay, I would say that this is partly due to the target audience. The members of boy bands have an appearance and an attitude that deviates quite a bit from the conception of an attractive man from a man's point of view (as you explained in your video "Male vs Female Gaze") without mentioning the lyrics which seem quite cheesy and express a form of weakness (I realize that I grew up in a "tough boy" community) or more generally, a boy does not see his friends behaving this way, so it can be confusing the first time Anyway, thank you for this video. We see the effort you put into creating quality content. I learned a lot thanks to this channel and I look forward to seeing your next releases
This is baffling to me cuz im a guy that’s been into kpop for over a year now and i am so damn incredibly invested into the whole franchise that is kpop. Im now somewhat blind towards the anti sentiment of kpop but i realized it just seemed to just be pure immaturity stemming from fragile masculinity and a bit of deeprooted homosexuality. Basically to my understanding i just think that almost every single guy hates boybands because they are, subconsciously, wayyy too afraid of stepping out or not conforming to the societal/gender norms of society, so they then become defensive and eventually rationalize that they need to verbally attack them instead in order to devalue them in their own brain and see themselves as higher than them in terms of value.
I remember time when I was so invested into my music realm (heavy metal/hard rock) that I had to fight and find everything pop-related repulsive to an extent that I hated boybands without even knowing anything about them but because I had to hate pop and at the time boybands (who are inherently very poppish) had the most media exposure and screen time so my dislike of pop transpired to them. Literally even without listening to them
Also what people on your insta responded can be seen as ableist "why do they obsess over these boy bands blah blah blah" most "obsessions" are actually special interests young girls have but since young girls have often been discredited when it comes to possibly having autism or ADHD, then people are ableist towards them bc they can't understand their "obsession", so i think we can come to the conclusion that hate on boy bands come to these issues in men and allistic afab people: 1. Misogyny 2. Homophobia 3. Toxic Masculinity 4. Ableism
Or maybe these boybands just look ridiculous to people who like music of substance over flashy dances and expensive suits and makeup, and maybe fangirls do actually behave quite ridiculously at times. Not everything is toxic masculinity or homophobia or whatever else simply because it goes against something you like. You can't throw bigotry labels around like they are candy, we are talking about skinny korean dancers, not lynching gay people. Grow up
@@vladutzuli When you mention flashy suits, you reminded me of the earlier era of kpop where they had this futuristic vibe in just about every music video. As a little kid I honestly did not find the music extremely beautiful or anything, but I engaged in it because the dances were fun and the music sounded weird and the hairstyles and clothing were just straight up wacky. It felt more like a meme and a culture rather than purely music. I think that’s what it was meant to be lol. Just for fun. Now I’ve expanded into other sub genres of kpop where they straight up don’t even have music videos so if I like a song, it definitely just has to be for the music, especially since I find most of it on Spotify now and have no idea what the artist looks like 😂
I feel like my being a lesbian kpop fan (and the existence of other fans who aren’t physically attracted to the performers) kind of breaks this theory by counterexample lol. That’s the thing with evolutionary psychology. It’s cool to think about though. I can definitely still see (and have seen) men feeling threatened by boy bands/kpop idols.
I mean sure there are ppl who don’t feel any attraction to the groups, but there’s a reason why kpop labels prioritize looks when choosing to sign groups.
When i was an angry metal kid, my opinion on them was the same ol “fake and ghey” insults. Now in my 20s i vibe with BTS and NewJeans during my workouts lol.
I find it so entertaining that many "men" are so against K-pop artists. Because, in their eyes, it's horrible when a young Asian man happens to be attractive and also creates music. For them, it's the end of the world. These guys haven't even heard the music K-pop artists make, and they're so quick to jump on the hate train. At least know where you're going. I also personally don't understand what's wrong with a woman liking K-pop or boy band artists. I mean, I'm the bane of society in their eyes. I'm a young woman who likes K-pop (even went to a Stray Kids concert), enjoys other foreign media, and gets excited over simple things like that. Like mate, calm down. If you're jealous, you weren't going to get my attention in the first place. Part of it has to stem form racism, because, oh no, a Korean person making music? And the rest has to be homophobia (calling idols gay for wearing a skirt and makeup, or enjoying traditionally "feminine things") and misogyny (disliking someone or something because women like it) Back to the racism factor, there's also stereotypes surrounding Asian men, and just being looked down for because the shape of their eyes is different or because they speak a different language. Guys don't also consider the music. Yes, Jimin sounds like a woman sometimes when he sings, but that doesn't apply to every artist. BTS also isn't the only notable artist. If you like rap, K-pop has incredible raps. I know Seo Changbin, RM, Suga, Han Jisung, the list goes on, are all amazing. Not to mention, all of these artists who I've named all write their own stuff (I know Changbin and Han for sure are involved with actual track making). If you care about vocals, there's vocals. If you like EDM, we have EDM. Just because it is foreign, and by an attractive, popular, male Asian artist, that doesn't make it bad. (Sorry if this was a messy comment)
Idk feel like you are kinda straw manning the actual points why ppl might dislike kpop and only consider the obviously stupid ones. I went out of my way to challenge my perception of kpop and the fans and now my perception is worse than before.
@@tostupidforname Could be! I was referring to the base assumption people tend to make, and not the case when they actually check out the songs. If it's not your cup of tea, then you just don't like the style, and everyone's taste is different. (Ofc, with k-pop simply referring to idol music, it's hard to define its style but there still is something to it) The fan are definitely... something to say the very least. As a fan myself, I find a good majority of the ones online to be the issue. Honestly speaking, I also didn't have a good perception of k-pop, mainly from ARMYs and Blinks (BTS/Blackpink stans), so I completely understand what you mean.
It's not always race related, and it's not always that deep. I am a man that doesn't like boy bands or k-pop. Why? Because i don't like the sound, i'm not a fan of pop or pepy music. However.. No diggity by blackstreet is 🤌. Not sure if you'd count blackstreet as a boy band or not though
As a male fan of boybands I found the this video very interesting. Due to my age and location I was mostly a fan of the irish bands Boyzone and Westlife, the later is still touring and doing their first US tour ever in March. I also have tickets to see Ronan keating the main singer from Boyzone later this year. While these are my favourite bands I had (and still have) CDS from basically every other BB at the time from Backstreet Boys to 911 to LFO. And did want to be in or form a boyband myself A line I used to hear alot from guys when talking about different Boy Bands was “I don't like them but I like (some of) their songs' '. I remember going to concerts in the 90s and like there would hardly be any other guys there and those that were, were mostly boyfriends. Heck its still the case now. When I went to see Westlife at the end of 2022 there were very few men at it and mostly boyfriends/husbands. One of the members did call out male fans which I liked, but also two guys got into a fist fight at the bottom of the stage. I have noticed some shows and films set in the 80s and 90s making reference to closeted male Boyband fans It Chapter 1 one of the characters has a NKOTB poster on his door and in The Goldbergs Adam and his brother admit to also been NKOTB fans and go to their concert something which was true for the characters in real life. It was lonely being a male fan of BoyBands at the time. In the same position today I would reach out to others online and maybe try and form or join male boyband fan groups but in the 90s and early 00s that wasn't an option. I do also listen to alot of Kpop or watch it on YT - maybe some of the only modern music I enjoy probably because the sound and visuals do remind me of 90s music but I have a very basic understanding of the scene and do not follow the drama. PS Only found your channel over Christmas but enjoying the videos. Keep it up
As a guy who enjoyes k-pop, initially just female groups, I wanted to be more open-minded and talked to my friends who shared the same interest and tried to listen to boy band music too. I found a few songs that I liked, but in the end it was still a very small part of my music taste. I get why dudes are insecure about boy bands under machismo culture, but as I get older that whole shtick gets dumber and seems to matter less. Nowadays If something sounds good, then it sounds good.
I’d love to know more about the “unpopulars” opinions. Also, I think there’s a deeeeep well to explore regarding homophobia here! Interesting video, as always!
Before i start the video, the short answer imo is a combination of misogyny, homophobia and internalized patriarchy (ideals of masculinity mostly). And a quick note, though I'm not sure the beatles will be mentioned here, I think the reason they get a pass is that they are and were largely perceived as representatives of counterculture.
I hate them because, why should a girl be so obsessed with them? These are feminine, maybe even gay guys, that are celebrities and just make music. Yet so many girls have been drawn into revolving their lives around them nearly like an obsession, but for what purpose and why? I would liken it to p*rn, as the girls that watch it will never get anything out of it, yet despite that they keep being addicted to it because of the guys popularity and looks. And guess what, i hate p*rn. As it distracts you from what you actually should be doing with your life, and makes you instead obsess over some unobtainable fake bs, just like what these k-pop groups does to girls. From personal experience too, my girlfriend was a massive k-pop fan, and i didn't like that, but mostly didn't think much of why she was obsessed with these other guys, until it began irking me enough that i looked through what she was commenting and liking. There i noticed she had been liking thirst-compilations of these k-pop guys, as well as on their official posts she had been obsessing over them calling these guys her "love" and her "husbands" and that they are "so hot" and that she loves them so much apparently. When i read those things my heart dropped, as why the hell is she saying these things about other guys while we are in a relationship. I confronted her about it and she said she: "doesn't know why she said those things as she actually doesn't think those things that she said" Skipping some things, it ended up with me telling her to stop following those groups, and stop liking anything they do either. She still does listen to their music and so on tho, so i guess i simply can't know how she feels about them, other than to have faith in her. But it really pisses me off how she actually said those things and committed herself to those random dudes while she was in a relationship with me. Somehow her obsession went that far, for these random gay dudes that have no personality or moral character to speak of.
Only 8 minutes in, so I haven't finished the video yet. But the way I've always seen it, is insecurity. The guys in boy bands tend to be very attractive, and girls and women, obviously, think as much. Men generally don't like 'pretty boys' for various reasons, from being insecure in their own appearance, to their 'toxic' view on what a man should look like. You see it was ANY musicians that are attractive. I think Andy from Black Veil Brides is a good example. He(and the rest of the band) got a lot of hate when they were first blowing up, largely because 'they look like girls.' They were pretty, and dressed in a sort of glam rock way. And guys, especially metal heads, HATED them for it. Harry Styles doesn't get as much hate as a solo artist as One Direction as a whole did, but there are still plenty of guys out there who hate him simply because he's attractive and popular with women and young girls. Same with Justin Bieber, Shawn Mendes, and so on. If those artists weren't conventionally attractive, I think they'd get WAY less hate.
Its a bit extreme to most dudes 'hate' boy bands or kpop, maybe there might be a minority of them who truly hate them, but for most dudes either they don't really like the music and don't care , or they are annoyed by the colors and the concept that these bands embody...this is coming from a 'dude' by the way.
I hate Boy-Bands because, according to the fanbase, there is nothing more "feminine and empowering" than cashing in on the romantic, sexual insecurities of teenage girls with an empty perception of masculinity, for the price of having a generation of young girls and boys further divided by involvement with toxic fanbases obsessed with things like pornography and high consumerism, girls who will suffer greatly in relationships because of a distorted view of an "ideal man". In exchange, the industry sells you an empty, uninspired, visual-based product, ready for high consumption that will probably make you sick and forget about it after a while. Women, in short they're selling you a Ken Doll and making a fool of you in the process, and you're still proud of it.
I’ve seen this before, and It sucks to see when women compare “feminine” men off of male actors, fictional characters, and boy bands, and then say that men should be more like them, or saying that feminine men are more “safer” than masculine men, as if men are dangerous, and too rough, too stoic and aggressive, and “toxic” if they are not feminine and emotional like that or will put down men in some sort of way, as we are all predatory it seems. The emotional part especially is weird since being emotional in this context just seem to range from only being vulnerable and crying when it comes some women talking about tv tropes that and talking about why xyz character is hot or romantic, but I kinda doubt being actually emotional would get you that far, and is an easy way to get called fragile or toxic rather than it looking cute like in a movie. It’s like seeing some women fall for a perfect Disney Prince trope and then that person says “this is what more men should be like” as if that prince wasn’t literally written or marketed to be perfectly appealing to her.
My opinion before watching the video, based on my own experience: They hate em because they're popular with girls and specially teenage girls, making them incredibly jealous. My opinion after: Mostly reafirmed, but that stud vs investor theory is 10000iQ and way more detailed than what I ever thought, it sounds spot on. Weirdly enough, I was an "investor male", and I still hated boybands out of pure unexplored jealousy and awarded them all the typical criticisms showed in this video. After growing up I now super vibe with all pop and kpop, including boy bands. One Direction slapped, their songs are so much fun to sing in karaoke nights.
bts was a boyfriend group-ish when they debuted but as they became older their music became more about self love and so on. also even when bts just debuted they made a lot of songs about the school system and how fucked up everything is. this is also why they gained such a big and loyal fanbase.
' I am pretty sure I can kick their asses ' 💀💀💀💀💀 Jeon Jungkook , Park Jimin have entered the chat with their innumerable & whatnot trainings... definitely could snap anyone's neck 😂 ... they choose peace 😅 so should we
I also find it funny in general when I hear ( regardless of gender) of when people say “ They don’t write their own music!” I never understood this kind of ‘insult’. Because at the end of the day if the song sounds good then why would i care if they wrote the song or not?
at its core, it's classic misogyny: anything young girls enjoy is automatically disregarded. what is liked by dudes, is praised. it's just another subtle subproduct of the patriarchal cultural background. We can add things as how manufactured and fake these boybands are in general, or the simple fact that dudes feel intimidated by the attention these boybands get from girls. but it's mostly the disregard for anything ¨girly¨ as something lack of real value
I am a woman, and i have never liked boybands at all, but i've enjoyed a ton of girlbands simply because girlbands have a fun dynamic that boybands don't have and most of the ones i grew up with like the sugababes or destiny's child just simply make higher quality music that i still enjoy today. Imo, it seems most men dislike boybands specifically for their music and manufactured image. But men who hate boybands for those reasons aren't as vitrolic as men who go on to call them gay or wish death on them. For the more aggressive men, I strongly believe it's because they feel some sort of jealousy towards them due to their popularity with women. Men are told that they need to be aggressive or excessively chauvinistic according to the advice of other men to get women. Then these "soft boys" come along and completely defy their own understanding of female psychology. In some sense, they know they can not compete with these men and are jealous of their sexual desirability that seems to have been earned by respecting women and making them happy instead of being rough, aggressive and angry brutes that they aspire to be or are probably are. You can even tell the difference between women and girls who gravitate towards boybands and to more aspirational figures to males such as athletes and rappers. Those women and girls are typically seen as virginal, pure, and typically have that sense of innocence women who fawn over athletes and rappers do not have. At the same time, plenty of men see these women as needing boybands to cope with the fact that they are sexually undesirable or hate them for simply fantizing about men who are successful and attrative instead of average joes like themselves abd explicitly want to destroy their confidence to make them want lower value men like themselves. It's not exactly a straightforward explanation, but this is just my observation from examining these men for two decades at this point.
I can’t speak for all boy bands because I don’t follow them but for bts specifically…I just think people give them a chance. For example when I got into bts my dad made an effort to look into what I found so special about them and he was surprised at their genuine artistry and dedication to their craft. Their performance ability specifically (since he use to be a dancer) interested him because of their attention to choreography. He said it was just random cool tricks but cohesive with the lyrics and vibe of each song. I’ve also been watching this TH-camr who is a j cole fan react to bts after he saw the collab he did with j hope and it was the same thing - shocked to see that these guys are REAL rappers. He was genuinely upset no one told him about them sooner. Like Suga said, “you will like bts if you listen without prejudice” 🤷♀️
For me personally, I have a problem with things that people won't shut up about. The first thing I actively hated was sports. Since my dad and I shared a TV when I was younger, it took time away from my video games and I couldn't stand all the screaming that my dad and his buddies would do at the players that I knew that they knew couldn't hear them. I was also forced to go to games with hundreds of people just as loud as my dad and his friends, right in my ears, for hours. The second thing I hated was boy bands. The girls in my schools would not shut up about them. Everyone was talking about them. They were all the rage. After that, it was wrestling. My mom's side of the family bought wrestling games, wrestling posters, wrestling toys, watched wrestling every night, and wouldn't stop talking about it. And I am sure, for all these people, I talk way too much about video games.
Forgot to add that the studies mentioned are in the description. Also, I know I this was in the video but I keep seeing the same comments. It’s totally OKAY to not like boy bands. No one should be forced to like anything. This video is specifically addressing the ANTI-FANS as defined in Duffet’s study.
I feel like you are a little of the mark here, while its true that that a part of that hate comes from jealously or the inability to compete, but that is not the source of it,I never considered my hate for the boy bands because I mostly act like you when it comes to superheroes, but your video gave me the chance to give some thought to that hate, I find myself feeling repulsed or disgusted in a way from the Boy Bands, and I more confused by the female attraction to them then envious, and I think that truth is hiding between the two common words used to describe the boy band "fake" "gay", i find that the way that men in those band behave unnatural almost robotic in a way that is why its fake its manufactured to appeal to the female audience and that is ok, its just not for me, but what is "gay" about it, is those men don't follow the typical mold or behavior of a man, every man have a preconceived idea about how a man should behave, and every woman have the same idea which is your typical manly man act you know "men don't cry" and expressing your emotions could be seen as a sign of weakness...etc. and despite the common consensus that this type of behavior is attributed to the "toxic male", that is how most men act and that is how most women expect and want men to act(I know that from a personal experience), and the boy band is the exact opposite of that they act soft and deeply emotional in a jarring way, and the fact this kind of behavior is guaranteed to repulse any woman in real life and those men attract females with it reinforce, the feeling of fakeness to me, like when I look at those women I genuinely feel like something is wrong with them and I should avoid them at all costs ,I have been raised to act in way that is the exact opposite of the men in boy bands, and in a way boy bands are anti men, anti manhood they are just boys, but maybe its just me.
@@Thatguy-uc3dy it is just you
@@Thatguy-uc3dy i mean, toxic masculinity is when the act of being stereotypically manly completely contrasts from how a person actually is, isn’t it? If someone just so happens to be that way naturally, whatever; but if it’s all an act, then I feel similarly to that act as you do with how boybands manufacture their appeal. There are men that are just more emotional as well as those that aren’t that emotional.
The only difference between these two acts is that one is more socially acceptable, and social acceptability shouldn’t be the main component on how things should be, as it only represents what the mass finds okay rather than whether it actually is.
I do think boy band and idol culture have reprehensible qualities, such as the dehumanization of the actors and etc., but the boybands simply being non typical depictions of a man isn’t one of them.
@@Cardboard449 ok, fine maybe when I said that the boy bands are anti men, I was being a little inflammatory, men do come in all shapes and sizes and I shouldn't judge that, but I truly believe that the non typical depictions of a man is in fact one of the main reasons for the hate, when I really think about it, it is way more plausible to be referred to them as "gay" because its atypical, not because of insecurity or jealousy, and its not about what socially acceptable either, this purely about "Why Dudes Hate Boy Bands", and while I find that the ideas represented in this videos are compelling but it is simply unrealistic to expect a man would feel the need to compete with someone unreachable as a singer or a movie star, maybe the argument in here is that feeling is uncontrollable and rooted in our biology, but not for me, like i said I make a conscious decision of avoiding the kind of women who are celebrity crazy, because what is even more unrealistic is the idea that a normal woman would have a shot with abnormal man, so the whole idea that Dudes Hate Boy Bands because they are envious is dead in the water.
@Zach Forman sure, I can take criticism.
@@Thatguy-uc3dy Bro rote the entire bible💀
I remember when bts asked their male fans to scream in a concert and they were SOOOOO loud it sounded like a football stadium, the members were shook. These were mostly GROWN men with beards too, not teenage boys or young males. I'd say they were even louder than the girls
You fail to mention how their isn't the same hate to rockstars who get a lot of women, and they tend to be idolized by men even if they are also media creations.
Ikr. And one can't even claim it's bc "boyband members are more feminine" bc well, the metal and glam rock scene dismantles that argument.
yes I feel like the evolutionary response argument presented in the video is short sighted and fails
to account for the fact that this hatred is almost exclusively limited to boybands and other specific things teenager girls like such as YA novels or fanfiction or even make up (not so much anymore but in the 2000s and early 2010s this was the case)
That was actually in the original script and a discussion the co-writer and I had during this production. Our theories were:
1. Tough boys are able to relate to rockstars, therefore the way they attract females is less hated
Or
2. Rockstars did receive hate. Reporters often called hair bands gay or androgynous.
However there weren’t enough substantive studies to go in either direction, so I decided to axe the theories from the video.
@@DonnaIRL Its a combination of the band theme and fan base, rock stars dont sing about love all the time. And the love does not exist in real life as in the songs and because of that its just stupid and everyone who fall for it are also stupid. Other genres could use real talent and emotions in thier music but these boy bands exist only for one reason, makes teenage pantys wet.
Easy solution here
Rock > boyband
🤩 🤢
I was just at Stray Kid's encore show in LA a few days ago and I was AWED by the amount of fanboys I saw not only around me, but on social media (including fathers, and Jason Earl). Like the amount of men I heard screaming was insane! Music is universal and I'm glad there's more openness nowadays where anyone of any gender can enjoy good music.
Stay, how you doing? I attended their show in Feb and I agree to this. Also got7, Enhypen, Sik-k, Zico and the rose all have male fans older in general and honestly some become my friends!
Also hope you enjoyed the show? After concert depression is real! Take care of yourself 💓
Also I don't really think that Stray Kids is a group of boyfriends, they seem more like a group of your friends who are fun to be with. They promote good values about the importance of appreciating yourself, learning and exploring new things, working hard, resting well, finding friends and being kind to others. It seems to me that these things are important for everyone, regardless of gender or age ^^
man id kill to go to a skz concert
i think part of this comes from how skz has a more rock and edm sound and all of the members contribute to creating their music
I think it stems from stray kids not making pop music and having a more "tough image" there's a few members who are dudebro gym rats rather than pretty boys
I'm a dude and I love a Boy Band! A lot of the black Boy Bands are loved within the culture (Boys II Men, B2K, New Edition, Jackson 5, Jodeci, Dru Hill, 112, Jagged Edge, Day26) I could go on forever. Furthermore I love a good K-Pop too.
One direction? I'm a huge fan of Harry Styled but I'm a woman
You just spoke my language.
@A J That is more of a blessing than a curse.
@@AJ-lq3jz I don't think I see little Michael and his brothers before my eyes and think male group, of course that's a boyband
I'm not sure those were boy bands? Weren't they all grown? They seemed a little more mature imo.
Every time I like a song by a boy band, nobody should know it, because others often put it down.
Thats sad. You can like any boy bands. Who cares what other people think.
I'm the same way
I used to think that too. Then I got the courage to ask my boyfriend to see the bts movie with me. During the movie he looked up when their next concert was lol!!! He literally loved their live performance 😂
And nobody is saying anything about this guys incest profile pic ..
Bruh is that mario and luigi, who are BROTHERS, making out? What the actual fck 😂 you’re right keep that sht to yourself ahaha
"I think they are not cool and I am jealous of the attention they get from girls. Feels like I am not going to be likable if I don't act like them and I don't want to" Me when I was a teenager.
Same for me
@@yayayayya4731 LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
@@tappajaav ollllllllllllllo
Yeah it's the same as girls hating on super hot female popstars like ari and whatnot
@@EpicGabby24 i've never seen girls who hates ari, It's the opposite, everyone loves her. girls want to be like her
I think the whole "they're gay" thing has a lot more to do with the fact that the "stud-male archetype" tends to see being gay as a sign of being weak and fragile, by calling these boy bands gay, they wish to curb their insecurities and display superiority over them. In their minds, these male types aren't showing aggression and anything that doesn't show aggression is weak and feminine, which is why they pride themselves on their false sense of masculinity. It's just to mask their insecurities over the success of a male type that isn't theirs.
Agreed they are probably misogynistic dudes who consider females as inferior just because they're biologically weaker than males and them seeing a slight piece of feminity in guys somehow makes them think it's ok to bully them.
Ok clown 🤡🤡
it's so stupid bc if they're gay doesn't that mean u have less competition?? shouldn't u be happy that those guys aren't interested in the girls you are??? 😭😭
I just like music that's made as art rather than eye candy, that's it lmao
@@usualdosage7287 I mean, i get that, if you think so that's a fair reason. However, i don't think that they would go out of their way to make fun of those acts, or make fun of/judge people who like those acts. Everyone has different interests. I.e i don't think they'd call them "gay" and stuff if it's just about music preference.
i feel like the guys who do hate boybands come from a place of jealousy. they dont like that these men get women's affections without being what these men think men should be, or what these men wish they could be.
LITERALLY
Also, a lot of it comes from older men who refuse to accept that women prefer younger, more attractive men. Just look at what happened with Justin Bieber in the 2010s. It was ridiculous how much vitriol he got from grown ass men just because they were simply jealous.
@@dmb1745 💯
I just like music that's made as art rather than eye candy, that's it lmao
@@usualdosage7287 you have a very surface-level understanding of pop music. Some of it is for show, but a lot of it is art. I'm not sure how you could listen to BTS's music and read their lyrics and think it's all for show.
Most people don't even want to look past stereotypes and just want to jump on hate trains "just because". If they did, they'd know BTS basically go beyond most of these stereotypes. (using them as an example because I am a fan, Army, and I don't know enough about other Kpop acts to speak on their behalf.)
BTS basically write all of their songs, and they have been doing that since the very beginning. From the very first album, throughout their whole career as a band and solo artists, to this day. Three of their members (J-Hope, Suga, RM) are the main song writers and took park in the creation of every album and have hundreds of song credits each. RM writes songs for other artists. SUGA produces for other artists as well. Every member is also part of the Korean Copyright Association and have written and produced many songs as well.
They do have "love songs", especially in their earlier days (as they were literal teens themselves), but they cover a whole lot of different topics as well, even psychological concepts like Carl Jung's map of the soul (whole albums about that!). They also have "love songs" written using gender neutral pronouns on purpose, especially in their later works.
To understand their lyrics completely, I'd suggest sites like "doolset bangtan" which break down their lyrics, especially the korean wordplays and references that aren't found on a simple "lyric video". They got me reading pages of lyrics breakdowns for fun and I've never done that with any artist i listen to on the regular.
Even if they were put together by someone else and did not "come together" naturally, they still had to rise to the top with their own blood, sweat and tears. They do have an "underdog" story and that's one of the many reasons why their fans are so dedicated. They came from a small company which was on the verge of bankruptcy and experienced hate since the early stages of their careers until now. Despite their many struggles (I'd suggest to take a look into their story, for anyone who's interested) they still came on top because they have always been genuine talented people.
And speaking of male fans! In their latest concert(s), they asked only the men in the stadium to cheer, and it legit sounded like a football stadium. Very fun.
My comment is messy and has no structure whatsoever AND I don't know where I'm going but all I'm saying is, uh, don't judge a book by its cover. Or something.
Listen to more music
This is exactly why men hate k-pop listeners. You people are so overly obsessed with them , writing paragraphs online trying your best to portray BTS as some magical best band in the world. BTS fanbase is well known to be filled with toxic teenage girls , who worship these bands
@@turtleboy1188spend more time outside
@@turtleboy1188 if they want, if they want to listen to kpop or bts, let them. Not everyone should do what you like and that's okay.
I use Instagram and Tik Tok as a self promotional tool as I'm an artist. I like to highlight body positivity and positive masculine energy. I've definitely dealt with some very mean spirited negative dudes trying to "put me in my place".While I know my content isn't for everyone,it often comes across from insecurities..as if I'm a threat to them. When I started becoming more vocal that I am a gay male artist,I noticed I got less negative responses.. almost as if I wasn't a threat as I was in a different dating pool.
That’s super interesting! I now wonder if openly gay male public figures have had the same experience as you.
@@DonnaIRL Some definitely have experienced similar,but much less than I have. One factor..most cannot identify I'm gay by appearance or mannerisms. In social settings,I've seen other guys attempting to be appear more alpha around me and when they discovered that I'm gay, suddenly they let down their bs seemingly more friendly to me. Hector projector much?! 😂
Oh my gosh, that is so insanely interesting 😮😮😮😮
@@Thufferinthuckotash I n s a n e l y i n t e r e s t i n g
wow this is soo interesting, and sad in a way. I will never understand people xddd
As a dude, I totally hated these types of groups when I was younger. I was definitely the type of teenager to make fun of someone for like One Direction.
Now as an adult, I still don't like them, but I don't care if other people do. I think your idea has a lot of merit.
yea there nothing wrong with not liking boy bands but bullying girls that do and saying its not "real music" is the problem. I wish there was more people like you who just mind their business when it comes to girls liking boy bands. Especially if you're an adult.
stay's are the best 💕
I'm a woman and I don't like boy bands or kpop groups either. I just don't like how feminine the men are in K-pop. They all wear makeup and look like they take longer to get ready in the morning than I do! I only stan girl groups for that reason. Obviously this is just my opinion plenty of women are really into that. But I'm definitely not one of them. They look like they spend way more time on their hair and makeup and nails than the majority of women do. Effeminate men aren't universally attractive. The majority of men who were named most attractive men in the world are rugged and handsome not ✨pretty✨. And ALL the men in kpop groups are definitely pretty, beautiful even, but I wouldn't call a single one rugged or handsome in a John Wick way.
I think people who go out of their way to say they don't care if other people like something they dislike, are lying to themselves a bit. Including this TH-camr. Me thinks the lady doth protest too much...
@agtierrez I agree with this, but it's the kpop fan girls who are calling guys jealous or ugly just because they don't like boy bands, how does that make them reconsider their opinion?
it's sad because I think girls in general can really not find peace in most music fan spaces. if girls like rock or rap, they are questioned or othered and if they like pop (kpop) they are mocked or looked down on. music is music and boybands are fun! and BTS exploded because their approach and rise was specifically non-manufactured in the standard way of boybands. you've got members who are humble and genuinely passionate about music and performance and showmanship. their additional variety show content gets fans invested in personality the same way people become fans of actors. combine music, fashion and charisma and youve got a perfect storm for a successful group. but i see lots of fans saying how can they settle for any men after knowing the members. So I do understand the jealousy factor. Their content is edited so they seem perfect. Maybe its the equivalent of girls hating on models or beauty standards that make it more difficult for the normal gal. Anything that raises the bar for existing might have an automatic negative reaction from their demographic.
I've been in the rock community all my life and I have never seen rocker girls questioned or othered, so to me that seems like a very weird argument to make. But then again, I dont live in the USA so perhaps its a cultural thing. But aside from that, i think you absolutely touched on something true in the last paragraph. Men hate super artificial boybands for the same reasons women hate photoshopped supermodels.
BTS didnt explode because of that. If you look outside your bubble, youll see that bts is not the only group that is humble and passionate and to say something like that is completley obnoxious. One thing a lot of kpop stans miss is that getting you invested into kpop IS the manufacturing. They do it with every group, this is why no matter if you stan nct or stray kids they will all say they are genuine, kpop is literally a soft power
@@dasanii2467 🙄 I'm talking in comparison to western boybands where members in recent decades have not been particularly passionate about making music or being in a boyband at all. BTS was most of their fans introduction to kpop so finding a group who not only loves their craft but love each other is a stark difference from what we are used to.
@@amanduuuh_7117 You are missing the point of what this person said. Are you aware of the draconian nature of the contracts all K-pop artists have to sign, and the degree to which the agency gets to dictate their public conduct, and even their private life? No doubt anyone who has been at all successful in the music industry has some degree of passion for it. But the whole "love of their craft" and whatever other wholesome characteristics you find in them, are a product they have been specifically coached to sell.
@@vladutzuli Most anybody with a public facing business filters and edits their public content and conduct to maximize their impact and influence right? You can word it as sinisterly as you like but it doesn't change the fact that majority of public figures have a PR team who coach and dictate what to say. That isn't lost on fans but being in public spotlight, true natures shine through eventually and thats what wins over fans. And you seem to have missed MY point at how the reason for BTS success is that they gained fans because they are the exception to the actual draconian situations found in kpop, and frankly western, industries as well.
Before watching, as a dude, I'll say this, I don't hate Boy Bands or K-Pop. I hate their obnoxious fans. I hate obnoxious fans of all genres, honestly.
The same can be said about any fandom
@@intothemoon that’s why I said obnoxious fans of all genres lol
What about sports fans? Do you hate them too?
Then you must hate sport fans just as much
@@karlitatv “I hate obnoxious fans of all genres, honestly.” I wasn’t lying when I said “honestly “ lol
i ran a little thought experiment on my guy friends once- showed them boy band songs but called some of them kpop, but some of them kr&b despite them still being kpop songs. what do you know, they were much more receptive to the “kr&b” songs because they can’t get past their kneejerk judgment of boy bands. i find it a bit sad that some people won’t just enjoy music that sounds good but oh well
One time I played my liked songs playlist on Spotify in my friend's car and Daechwita came up. My friend said he liked the song and I told him that it was by Korean rapper Agust D. He said he'd check him out later. I knew that he did not like BTS at all and would've been much less receptive to it if he knew that the song was by one of the members. He did eventually find out but not after listening to the D-2 album ; ). He's not hostile to BTS nowadays but it's still sad that I even had to omit that.
@@anonsenforducks some of my guy friends hate exo and their members but love baekhyun’s solo stuff. their boy band judgements definitely show :/
If i want to listen to music that sounds good I'll listen to my favorite artists, boy bands seem like their whole appeal is looks. im into punk and alt which is why I hate corporate fabricated stuff has nothing to do with jealousy, if the artist is ugly I don't care that was never the point of music
If artsy creative kpop where emphasis is put on the music exists I'll give it another
@@usualdosage7287 you know you don't need to like it, I e.x. cannot be bothered with anything to heavy metal, or punk, it's not melodic enough for me to like it. I would however never run my mouth about the artists or cal then untalented or gay or whatever. I just don't listen to them as they don't appeal to me. And Kpop might not appeal to you, it's ok.
Btw, I think just because something is punk, doesn't mean it's alternative and better art. My youth lays in the 80ies, and when every other band does punk, it's just as copied and fabricated to me as every other music that follows a trend. A lot of the music had also low artistic value. But the people were happy to make this music, they found fans that liked it, and that is all there should be.
I'm glad my husband doesn't fall into the category of men hating boy bands/kpop groups. He's always been openly into Kpop. He was a big fan of SNSD and Big Bang as a kid, LOL. Nowadays he's really into G-IDLE, XG, Stray Kids and SB19.
He’s not insecure
SB19!!!
Thanks you for the support you give to our MAHALIMA (SB19).
Because it shows that before physical appreciation, it is the love of music that really stands out. ❤❤ from the Philippines.
I mean, I'm a teenage guy and I don't have any problems with either boy bands or girls'. I prefer the 'live and let live' motto. If you like 'em, cool. If you don't, cool.
But imo why a lot of guys are jealous/envious of them is that , in general, they're insecure about their own masculinity, so calling other men gay is pretty easy compared to trodding on the path of developing their own version of healthy masculinity. But yk, are there any prevalent role models for those guys who really want to practice healthy masculinity in the mainstream media? The popular aspects are either feminine guys or the red-pill thing. So can't blame them too tbh.
Good insight
You're so smart! Keep it up!
What's wrong with feminine guys tho 😑
She's not gonna let you hit, bro
@@DonnaIRL I'm ecstatic you found it so 😊
BTS reading "they don't create their music" comment with their 200+ writing and producing credits on their bag. But yeah, I too feel like it's a competition thing, men are scared that men that are not manly enough gets all the female following instead of them. I also feel like male gaze and female gaze plays a role as well as men just not understanding what majority of women or girls actually like.
It's not "not understanding", they deliberately go after those BBs and their fans because they FEEL the threat.
Can Men like what they like
Can Men like what they like
@@uchegbudivine6885 Can men let women like what they like in peace without constantly downplaying them?
@@iamgroot2810 nobody is downplaying women
They are downplaying other men that do it
BTS has a lot of artistic integrity and influence in their music. They are all members of the Korean Copyright Association and have songwriting credits, producing credits or composing credits on almost all of their roughly 300 songs.
I guess this could actually be one of the reasons why BTS surprisingly has a quite large male following aswell. I have seen countless times that guys who find out that BTS actually writes a lot of their own stuff and are able to play an extremely large variety of instruments, they get fans of BTS or at least express some sort of respect.
I think it is kind of funny that boy bands get a lot of hate because they seem to portray a perfect image of a male with emotional and technical skills, and thats why males who lack those skills precieve them as some sort of threat and try their hardest to bring them down.
Which means guys want to bring them down because females could develop to high of a standard for their potential partner.
I think it is interesting to mention, that males have an extremely high standard for boy bands for guys to become fans aswell.
Best example is BTS.
BTS has a quite large male fanbase and it usually happenes a lot slower than with female fans.
Guys seem to become genuine fans when they find out that BTS writes almost all of their songs and are involved in produncing and composing.
That BTS can play a large variety of instruments but choose to dance, not because they lack the skill of playing instruments.
That BTS spreads a positive and quite introspective message and admit to mistakes and question their position in society.
Female fans know all of these things aswell. But guys need these facts served on a silver platter for them to take BTS seriously and in return have to explain themselves with these facts to other males why they find BTS interesting.
Females also have a very high standard. But I guess we aren't as vocal or actually insecure about sharing our genuine interest. Male fans always seem like they have to explain themselves or validate their interest in BTS so they don't get mocked.
There is unfortunately definitely a connection between something female fans find exciting and the impression that it is rooted in hysteria and not worthy of respect.
As a woman, guys just don't want to work to be liked. They want it easy. They are lazy.
Thats their fault that they don't work on themselves and actually have emotional intelligence.
If they actually took the time and work to work on themselves in the ways that girls/ woman actually liked (which to do that they need to listen and respect us as human beings and not as sex objects) then they would have a lot easier chance to have us be interested in them.
Y'all kpop fans weird i don't give a fuck that alot of women like them I'm not jealous it's like you said boy bands in general just seem like corporate industry plants, like a product
u know they are the exeption that confirm the rule in the industry that made them so don't act ignorant
@@sofypi7493 Well one of her commenters on Instagram didn't know and was actually unaware that BTS write and produce their own stuff.
I am trying to clear up this misconception or ignorance with my comment.
Bc BTS is the exception to the rule and thats why they have such a large following...I wonder if they should be left out of a conversation like this, as she left out The Beatles.
@@usualdosage7287 You didn't actually read the whole comments from Annie X, did you? They are not really "corporate product" they also write their own stuff and made their own stuff despite they seemed like a "candy boy" at first glance just like what you said before but if you actually care to do research instead of bitching, we're good. If this is not obvious, idk how to explain it to you.
“One Direction has been booed, but Harry Styles not so much”
literally shows a clip where someone from the crowd at the Grammy’s yelled at him to get off the stage 🫠
I feel like a lot of these dudes that hate boy bands and k-pop feel intimidated. They hate that girls swoon over them. They hate that they’re good-looking while simultaneously also being charming and talented. They know they can’t compete so they get in their feelings instead of focusing on what they can offer. I also think misogyny comes into play; whatever girls and women like is deemed “cringy.” Hair, nails, skincare, fashion, etc. being examples. If we love boy bands and/or k-pop, we’re obnoxious and childish. If we love any other genres or artists, we’re a pick-me looking for attention. You can’t win. When k-pop comes into play, racism can be a big factor, too. They feel upset that a man of a race they see as inferior is being given so much female attention.
"if we love boy bands and/or k pop, we're obnoxious and childish. if we love any other genres or artists, we're pick mes looking for attention" YES
Intimidated, lol another abused term by women.
@@bannedmann4469 What’s a synonym you would rather us use? Because it’s the right term, but if you don’t like buzzwords I understand. Maybe men should stop feeling so emotional about women enjoying and liking things differently from them.
@@wannabedrewafualo lmao, men should stop expressing emotions. Got it. Y'all really don't know what y'all want.
@@bannedmann4469 Why are you using me as a way to speak to an entire group? I am not part of this heavily conflicted group you think I am. Men should be able to express their emotions freely and healthily, but it’s not healthy to constantly hate on other people. Pessimism is draining not only for the people around you but oneself. Do not compare expressing everyday emotions to expressing misogynistic ideology.
16:30 i might be biased in saying this since i will admit i do enjoy BTS's music, but I think to make the claim that they "do very little in creating their songs" is kind of a generalization of boy bands. they are very active with producing and writing their songs, even choreography. a little research would show that. i could see his original point being applied to other boy bands, even kpop ones, but bts is not one of those. however, i do agree with the toxicity surrounding only caring about appearances. however, that is more of a critique of fan culture not the groups themselves. also to take into account korea's long history of extremely toxic beauty standards
I love how the one who hates bts knows nothing about bts because they said they hate them for not writing their music when thats literally what bts is known for which is writing their music and talking openly about their feelings, its what makes them stand out in the kpop industry and to some extent the western industry as well.
TL;DW: It's because it's stuff girls enjoy.
Guys will be sexist
Good job on ruining the point of the video.
@@mateenahmad9960 Whine all you want but that's the truth. 🤷
@@duw4ng no one's whining, if it was just girls stuff then the same would apply to romance movies or shoujo anime and so on but it doesn't.
@@mateenahmad9960 And you think they don't hate on those too? Dudes literally shit on everything girls like because of the fact that they're things liked by girls. Not every guy does, of course, but a large amount does. I've seen it time and time again. And I've always read girls saying the same thing I said. It's unfortunately, the truth. I really don't understand how you can't see the amount of times guys, dudes, grown men just make fun of things girls enjoy. And it's always just the girls, never the boys. I absolutely hate this pointless sex war that has been perpetuated for decades and is still being perpetuated by people that apparently never see how girls, how women are treated by society. My ass it doesn't happen.
I'm gonna be honest
A lot of the comments here are very sadly heteronormative. And I think that's another distinct thing to point out. We have a lot of comments saying guys hate boy bands because women have higher standards, or that fragile masculinity is the reason why men can't like what women like.
It's mostly a man vs woman discourse about their perceived preferences, and it sucks because people have fallen to the trap of a divisive comparison based on gender.
This is why there are comments like "I'm a metalhead but I love pop music", people who have to preface their comments by saying "I am a man/woman but-" or those who claim some music are guilty pleasures, when freely admitting something is just fine. It's sad that some facets of music have been gendered for absurd reasons, and people often fail to remove those lenses in active discussion (even though they have good intentions).
........ what?
Bro this comment section is about that because thats what the video is about
No fr this is becoming all about that. I guess it would be more nuanced if we were talking about girls and girl related topic in view of women since I think adding homosexual pov that make men in the comments furious and angry for no reason
Oh no!! 😂
One of the few actual good comments in this comment section
A lot of kpop artist write there music, and those who don't, usually they like to take part in either the music or choreography. You see this a lot when kpop artist create solo works later down the line when they get more control
Not gonna lie there’s also a side that’s really sinister about it and it has to do with p3d0ph!les. It’s not just about boy bands any artist or actor who has majority teen girl fan base will get huggeee waves of hate (Justin Bieber for example) and want to know where the majority of the hate comes from? Older men. That’s right, Justin Bieber blew up around 16 and the majority of his fan base was like 14-17 year old girls, these old gross ass men would quite literally complain about teen girls liking boys their own age instead of liking some old ass men like them, literally trying to force underage girls to like older men by bashing him and making them feel ashamed for feeling attraction to their own age range 🤢🤢
Happened with BTS too they blew up in their early 20’s most of their fans at the time were around 16-19 I believe, hoards of older men coming after them saying they weren’t “man” enough. It’s definitely a manipulation tactic to try and make girls attracted to men way outside their age range 🤮
"overrated dudes that ordinary guys just don't stand a chance against"
okay but ordinary guys also don't stand a chance against people like henry cavil or chris hemsworth for example, and I don't see this amount of hate towards them
"cringe, corny"
well do you think you don't look cringe displaying your jealousy against people who you'll never meet?
"we're not okay with softboys"
oh so you're homophobic
"bts do very little in creating their songs"
absolutely not true, they've always been very involved in their creative work and it can be seen specially in their recent solo releases
"i'm pretty sure i could kick their asses"
i'd like to see them try if it's that easy
So it looks like it boils down to misogyny, homophobia and racism
😂
"These guys that don't look like me are taking all the women!"
Horrible take LMFAO
@@hermanmusimbi4337 comparing a kpop group with pornstars is insane. Like i don't care about male kpop bands, but they at least work like hell to make songs, choreographies and tours, and some of the music actually have positive lyrics for young people to listen. But the porn industry is just a huge damage to society that put women in miserable working conditions, and create a very damaging view on women just for some fucked up men fufill their fantasies. Maybe women are not concerned with a simple "beauty standard" in pornstars the same way men are with asian dudes singing sometimes shirtless.
@@hermanmusimbi4337 the "racism" is in bts's case, many of the hate comes from the fact that they are an east asian boyband as well, misogyny is very obvious, the fact that majority of the fans are female. The beatles used to get sooooo much hate before, when their fandom was mostly girls. Now that the male found them and finally knew how great they are, they started being respected. (the same thing will probably happen to bts in a few decades or less, due to the fact that they have the authenticity aspect hidden behind the good looks and general manufactured industry, just like how the beatles were, their male fandom is starting to grow very fast).
I would argue that BTS Army is now growing with a male demographic over the years based on the fact at one of their concerts, I think it was at PTD Las Vegas, they did a roll call of men who were at the concert to yell and shout their presence and there was a roar. It was LOUD AF.
my dad had a low influence in my life for being a male role model, I had to teach myself what is ethical and morally right growing up, my mom was there too but I had it rough with her, what she had to teach me came in a form of punishing me and I understand why she did that. Now I discovered BTS towards my early adult life and all I can say is that they had a positive influence on my life when it comes to the lyrics and meaning of their songs or what they stand for, and they served as a very good role model in my life as well. IMO the ones who put out hate; they don't understand or they won't try to understand what's going on before they judge someone.
This. Same with One Direction
Nah, they gay.
I really think the evolutionary aspect is a massive stretch and is not nearly as as contributive, if at all, to the hate as misogyny, their general lack of quality, and hating on them becoming a cultural tradition.
Other "evolutionarily desirable" groups of men (or at least by the standards the studies you provided layed out) dont get any of the same hatred at all. Likewise, we dont see the same hateful reaction to popular female influencers from girls and women. It really doesn't make much sense to me.
I get called gay all the time for liking kpop boy groups because that's just what everyone assumes. I try showing my friends and family and all the guys seem so uncomfortable. Saying things like they look like girls, why are they wearing makeup, etc, etc. It's definitely the fandoms and culture who turn away guys but then they turn around and collect baseball cards or go to a basketball game to see their favorites play. I've just accepted that kpop and boy groups in general are aimed for the girls and while guys are welcomed it's not really for us.
Don’t worry dude. If you like music like TWICE, they have a lot of male fans so it won’t be weird if you also join in. The girl group sector of kpop welcomes ya 🎉
As a dude, i used to shit on boy groups when I was in middle school. I used to hate like JB, 1D, 5SOS and all that, but in high school I pulled a 180 and started liking kpop and genuinely just changed my minds about all the boys that girls crazed. Now I just dont care, if they make good music, then I like them
In the past I think my distaste for boy bands came mostly from insecurity. I was envious of the effect they had on girls around me especially the ones I liked or was dating. I don’t think we need evolutionary psych to explain this one 😂
I noticed too that a lot of the boy bad hate comes from male insecurity. They somehow feel less in comparison, and I swear it's mostly very young men but not exclusively them. Some men in their 20s and 30s can get very VERY nasty towards boyband members and their fans.
I'm a 36 years old BTS army, and as an army I know most BTS fans are adults. Probably because they write their own lyrics and have a lot of creative freedom, they appeal to adults also. Their lyrics and concepts are super deep, and they rarely speak about traditional romantic love. We get TONS of hate from males that think we are teenagers, so I know first hand how it is. And let's be clear, the hate is unfair to teenagers too cause young girls have the right to enjoy what they love, and passion shouldn't be confused with "histeria". People portray fan girls as crazy or less capable of reason and that is misogyny, cause when a man cries and screams when his favorite sports team loses no one blinks an eye.
True most Army are actually adults because when you compare bts concert tickets to other boybands you will see that the teenagers are way less than other boybands and I think that the reason why bts have a lot of adults army is there music and lyrics as you said but also them as human because the thing with BTS is that they show us there weakness whether it's by them speaking to us directly or by their songs that's why despite them being that popular when I watch there shows and lives I can relate to them of course I see them as talented people and famous and rich but also I see them as normal people just like us and also they always remind humble and that is rare to see in the music industry and they always been grateful to their fans and they know so well that's the fans are what made them popular and they always talked about that
It’s mostly insecure yt men
Insecure of what? They're lame lol no, believe me, i DON'T wanna look like them or being popular like that, or having girls wetting themselves for me. They just suck and look pansy lol
Here are few reasons which I think can be some of the factors:
1. Because Boy bands sets unrealistic absurd expectations(which are highly PRed and manufactured) for Boys/Men in Girls/Women, whether it's how to act, behave, look or dress. This can be proven for every era if you pick up any popular Boy Bands of that era and then see changes in Boys/Men of that era. Same is applicable for vice versa.
2. Implicit or explicit comments or comparison of their Boyfreinds or in dating world with some member of Boy bands. It could be linked to the point you made in the video about Mate Competition.
3. Lack of tolerance to criticism amongst Girls/Women towards their favorite Boy Bands whether it's on twitter or facebook. Doxxing, hating, cancelling someone is common among fangirls of these boybands if someone dare to criticize or not like them. Criticism of them is a great litmus test to see why many men dislike boybands which unfortunately seem to be the source for this type of behavior since you rarely see any acceptance or call out from the artists for this type of unhinged behavior. You may find them here in this video too defending their boybands in some form or other.
4. I would say a Jealousy of some form, whether is it's success, fame, wealth or looks is definitely a contributing factor to this.
5. "Boy Bands caters only to women" Something which caters only to women naturally brings out a dislike to the people who it isn't catered to. Same can be said for vice versa like Something catering to only men. So, I wouldn't call it "Misogyny".
6. Hatred of Celebrity worship culture in general.
Most valid comment here tbh
#5 isn't true though + "It's not for me" is very different from "I hate them"
The most sensible comment on this video
Celebrity worship many K-pop fans are worshipping them as god
You must love them or get cooked
I can believe lot of situations can tick the boxes 4 & 6 without people even realising.
Like underdog syndrome where people generally want to root for the lesser known ones and dislike the popular ones.
As a dude who grew up with a disdain for boy bands, a lot of that stemmed from a mixture of body image/self esteem issues and general insecurity. Seeing these groups gain the affection and attention for being attractive and talented is something I always craved during this time of my life. I suspect this is the case for many other young men who have similar viewpoints.
Our desire to be desired as individuals fuels both the fans of boy bands and the haters of boy bands in distinct ways. I personally feel like an increased focus on media literacy would help these haters enjoy (or at the very least understand) boy bands better and process there feelings.
I have lots of thoughts on this topic but I just wanted to get my main points out into the ether.
I’d say you called it, since It’s a similar case for me as a young man, except I don’t hate boy bands at all or their fans, but still have that insecurity/self esteem issues as of recent.
I live in the Midwest and work in a steel shop so you can already guess the type of work environment and coworkers I have to deal with. Does it make me hesitant to share my interest in kpop with them? Absolutely not. I'm constantly annoying these dudes with song recommendations, facts about my favorite groups and idols, and why JungKook is my bias. It's always unsolicited but their reactions are entertaining. Too many guys are so petrified of things that challenge or go against their personal perception of masculinity that they overcompensate and feel the need to put others down who enjoy said things. Or they're jealous, either way it all stems from a place of insecurity.
Or maybe their reaction isn't to kpop, but instead to you being annoying.
Honestly, do you wanna be that guy who keeps bringing up some music no one cares about, regardless of what genre it is.
@@ghostofantarctica8216 it's a two way street homie. They annoy me with their shit too lol I know way more about the WWE and my coworkers sex lives than I would care to but it's how we entertain ourselves to get thru the work day. It's just my interest is the least conventionally masculine.
@@iamsadandlame In that case, great! I misunderstood. If that's how you annoy each other and laugh about it, enjoy!
@@ghostofantarctica8216 besides I'm not gonna talk about kpop with real kpop stans. They're insufferable.
Beautiful! Keep doing your thing bro!! I love what you do!!
But BTS doesn't fit the Wiki definition either because 1. members have writing and producing credits all over their albums and 2. they don't write love songs marketed toward girls. (are there some love songs, yes. of course. is it even half their songs? no) Yet, when I got into BTS provings this to my male friends and brothers didn't sway anyone's mind on their boy band status. In fact a surprising amount of guys I know clung to the boy band moniker even when I asked them to define a boyband and then gave examples as to why BTS wasn't a boyband by their own definition. They just moved on to another definition (that i ruled out) until they ran out and said 'whatever, they're still a stupid boy band.'
Several years into this anecdotal study I have two conclusions as to the hate. 1.they raise the bar of male beauty standards 2. Men, at least in America, aren't trying to be men by women's preference. They're trying to be men by men's preferences. Guys don't want to be what women want in men... they want to be what men want in men. And men don't want 'soft boys', even if women do.
What gets me the most about the hate is that it's manifested not by the band itself, but soley on women's response to the band. They know nothing about a group but they instinctively know they hate it and just make up reasons? Take for example the guy you quoted in this video "BTS themselves do very little in creating their songs." Meanwhile BTS members have broken records for writing credits. one writes and produces for other artists regularly. They have this knee jerk reaction to hate a group for no other reason than that women like them.... why not question that about yourself? If you dont like it because you dont like it, thats fine, but why make up reasons? If that guy was told about BTS' participation in making their own music do you think he'd change his mind? In my (again, anecdotal) experience, they just shift to another made up reason.
TL;DR Version: It's not the boy band that they hate. It's that the boy band doesn't cater to men. Seeing a group of men cater to women's preferences in men makes them very uncomfortable because what women like isn't what men like in men. They're not manly enough. They don't appeal to men enough. They only appeal to women. They committed the sin of being attractive to women and not men.
which is somehow gay.
I smell…Jealous😂
And maybe hate of industry farms.
But mostly they didn’t hate Boy Bands but they jealous of love and popularity that boy bands have. And I think it about female/male gaze too. Tough boys can be really sad because it’s hard to understate for them that their idea about the dream boy do not coincide with the female. they can't fit this image of the perfect man. But should they? It’s another question.
People absolutely dunk on anything that is popular at the moment
One thing I feel is important is that Boybands rely heavily on sex-appeal, something which is going to completely bounce off of heterosexual males. I also feel like a lot of them drive to create a parasocial relationship amongst their followers, which also skeeves me out.
i can't speak for every fanbase, but the one direction one contains lots of lesbians so sex-appeal doesn't really apply in that case yet they still love 1d. I think the main reason boybands are hated is misogyny.
@Danielle this. As a fan of One Direction. I'm not a lesbian but I know a lot of fans are so what you say is true.
@@Danielle-ft6es lesbians are still a minority among the straight women fans so your point isnt really valid. Sex appeal definitly is there.
i don’t think that people like these bands mainly because they find them sexy. i can’t speak for all of them because i’m only a fan of bts, but this could very well apply to some others too. if the music was lackluster compared to their looks they would not have this massive amount of streams on their music. i have been a fan of bts for a very long time and i got into them because of the relatable message behind their music and their song autumn leaves has been my #1 played song on spotify for many years. i listen to it almost every day even though i don’t keep up with bts outside of their music releases. a lot of people are so quick to dismiss bts’ popularity because they are attractive young men, but a big amount of their fans are into them because of their music and many of us are very interested in the intricacy of their lyricism and production instead of their abs or whatever, and it feels extremely frustrating when i say i’m a fan of bts and people immediately assume i’m some horny 13 year old. people really don’t know what the fandom is like outside of these extreme examples
@i eat chairs this. But for one direction. I do think Harry Styles is hot AF but he's also a really good writer for his songs and he can play guitar and piano and not to mention good singing in itself is a skill too. He's also very sweet and respectful of everyone no matter what.
I genuinely agree with the conclusion you came to on this video. I do think that the popularity of "softer" guys -- especially popularity to the level boy bands get -- conflicts with the "alpha males get women" faux-evolutionary worldview a lot of these guys have, and that upending of their worldview is disturbing to them so they react really violently angrily against it.
However, I think one thing this video seems to ignore is the difference between "marketed at" teenage girls and "happens to appeal to" teenage girls. It seems to me that it's very consistent that male hate is specifically targeted at things that are specifically built (whether by executives or, in the case of some internet personalities, the person themself) for maximum teen girl appeal. As soon as Harry Styles wasn't in the "boy band" anymore and was being more apparently authentic & doing a style of music that boys in my generation & our dads liked, then guys were much more okay with him. Timothee Chalamet wasn't trained & styled for teen girl appeal, teen girls just happen to love him. Even the Jonas Brothers, who play their own instruments so you left them out of this conversation, are consistent with this. They were recruited and groomed by a label in order to target the teen girl demographic, and they get a lot of hate too. But if you just HAPPEN appeal to teenage girls, and you're authentically "soft" rather than groomed & styled that way, then guys don't seem as threatened by that, probably because these ideal guys who come across as apparently more "authentic" have an attractiveness that, because it's a bit rougher around the edges, perhaps seems more attainable.
Exactly.. it's okay not to like bts or kpop but some people literally make fake accts just to leave hate comments.. and some are just racist and ignorant comments
Like a certain black Podcaster said he hates a certain group for no reason
what's the podcaster's name? I think I know who you're talking about, but don't know his name
@@kid-ava joe budden
@@kimyoung3160who cares about Joe Budden it ain't 2018
right and theyll even make up reasons that literally ARENT TRUE in the slightest just to dislike them. like the guy in the video who was like “oh bts dont do a lot in their music creating process” or something along those lines. like tell that to their 200+ writing credits..
I feel like it's just the good ol' "it's all unfair" deal. A "normal" dude sees some "girly" bois dancing around and singing in a high-pitched voice and for whatever reason all the girls are swooning over those bois, but not the "normal" one. And this "normal" guy heard before that women are supposed to value proper MANLY MEN, and he's OBVIOUSLY way more manly than those boyband sissies, yet he fails to attract a single partner.
This whole thing then turns into hate towards the boybands (because it's more acceptable to do that to other men) and laughter/ridicule at the teen girls (because "they don't know better"), with obviously the extreme form of this being the somewhat recent "Tate cult" where dudes start directly hating women for all kinds of "reasons".
I 100% agree with your statement
Yeah. It all stems from misogyny and toxic masculinity really.
@@_tripalong not everything is toxic masculinity. If you want the real core of the issue, men hate boybands for the same reason many women hate photoshopped supermodels. They create an unrealistic and artificial image especially made for the opposite sex to swoon over, and in doing so it raises the bar tremendously for "normal" people, and basically invalidates them. If men hating BTS is toxic masculinity, women hating Victoria's secret models must be toxic femininity, no?
@@_tripalong more like it stems from insecurity.
LMAO, it has nothing to do with that, at least for me it's because i perceive music as an art not some model show lmao, simple as
Didn't finish the video yet, but a caveat is that a lot of Korean fans of female Kpop groups are male
Korean men are surprisingly more comfortable in their masculinity than western men. Like they even like boygroups too, they don't care about the "feminine" look or the makeup.
I will rewatch this later with my husband (he's Korean) & see what he thinks. Thanks, Donna! EDIT: We're older (40s), from the 1st generation hallyu (Korean wave.)
Naw you crazy to be a “dude” and hate Big Time Rush
As a kid to even present day, I hated almost every single live show ever on Nick, however I remember Big Time Rush having some good songs, tho I only remember one or two of them. I gotta look up their songs honestly.
I will try to be as transparent as possible
10 years ago when i was 18~ i used to hate them mainly because i was a sheep and repeated what the majority of guys around me said (i wanted other guys approval of me) (yes i know it was pathetic) also yes i was kinda jealous of them but thats about it
Now at 27 im just doing my own thing and couldn't give a damn about what other people like or hate
Right now The only criteria that makes me hate or like a music is if it annoyes me or if its fun to listen to (i actually like some of their songs now)
BTS fan here.
When people say things like 'their fans are only teenage girls', it's really hurtful, not because it's untrue : the majority of the fandom is indeed young women. But rather because they mean it as an insult, as if we teenage girls were unable to appreciate music and art. They are basically implying that we are shallow and only care about the looks. That we don't care about the lyrics, singing, rapping etc. Yes, we do like their looks, we do write about it on social media, we do collect pictures of them, but why would that mean it's not about the music too ? It's just really hurtful to be called shallow like that, based on the fact that we are young women/girls.
I understand that from an outside perspective you could think they are manufactured and don't write/create their songs. I guess it's obvious I will say this since I'm a fan, but they really do write their own songs and have a lot of creative freedom. It's not necessarily the case for every kpop group though but BTS are definitely musicians and lyricists, every member with his own specialties. If you watch their content you can see how much they care about their music.
Again I understand the 'manufactured' point of view because before getting into BTS and kpop in general I thought like this too. I thought, 'they're handsome and can dance, that must mean they don't have any musical talent and people love them just because of those pretty faces.' So trust me when I say this : they do have talent and work hard on their musical abilities.
I don't hope for people to like us as a fandom because the bad image we have will never go away. And frankly there are a lot of problems in the fandom. I just wish BTS wasn't so hated and disrespected as musicians and performers.
(sorry if there are any mistakes, English is not my first language)
"But rather because they mean it as an insult, as if we teenage girls were unable to appreciate music and art"
Nah I think you are taking this to the worst possible extreme. Its not that teenage girls like that music, its the mostly no one else does so only teenage girls remain. If the quality of the music was by far the main driving factor in the fandom wouldn't that lead to a pretty mixed fanbase? But its not so the appeal has to come from something that the the majority of the fandom have in common. So yeah I would argue that most boyband fans(and from the BTS fans I know personally) and also BTS fans are not very emotionally mature and fall hard for a parasocial relationship.
@@tostupidforname I understand where you’re coming from, but look at your own comment :
You’re saying I’m taking it to the extreme when I say people assume we don’t care about the music that much because the fandom is mostly young women. Then you are kind of doing that exact thing ? You say that since the fandom is mostly teenage girls then it means music is not the main driving factor ?
I understand your point about how if it was the case, the fandom would be more mixed, but in my opinion it also comes from prejudice, for example if a guy perceives the fandom as immature and hysteric, he won’t even try to listen in the first place. I think you could also be surprised by the variety of genders, ages and nationalities present in the fandom. Of course people can’t always see that because there is a silent part of the fandom. But that’s not really what’s important in the conversation here.
Yes the first appeal can be other things for a lot of fans. For example, when I first became a fan, I also loved the music videos and dancing. But what I’m trying to say here is that it doesn’t mean we don’t care about the music at all ! If we thought it was bad we wouldn’t be fans, no matter how attractive we think they are.
Of course there are many different kind of fans. There ARE some people who are immature, delusional and fall hard for a parasocial relationship like you said. And those fans are the loudest.
What I really wanted to express in my comment is that, like in your reply, people say the music doesn’t matter to us just because we are teenage girls. I don’t really know how to explain this better, I keep repeating the same thing.
When i say it’s hurtful it really IS. I am someone who cares deeply about their art and creative process. It’s very important to me in so many ways and I know a lot of BTS fans whi feel the same. That is why I’m trying to argue here, I’m trying to defend my love for something really important and inspiring to me and people are calling that love fake.
This is not true most bts fans are adults you can research there concert demographics and you will see that people in there 20s to 40s are way more than 10s, i saw one concert were teenagers were less than 10% and this is wasn't a small concert it was a stadium, bts definitely have teenager fans but they are not the majority the only true thing about bts fans is that there are mostly women
@@btssmarmy7832 did you read the comment?
i am so excited to see you cover this topic! i think i'm first!
edit: not the trolls in the comments already giving us more anecdotal evidence for this theory
LOL kinda funny if you think about it
In Kpop there is no such thing as the stereotype that they don't write their songs or don't play instruments, maybe they don't play instruments in concerts but to produce and write their songs they know how to play instruments like guitar, bass, piano, and even the turntables.
Is that true tho? Im not so sure lmao
@@joooker13 Its not true. A lot of kpop stans dont check the credits of the songs. They dont play the instruments or write most of the things in thier songs, hell even the backing vocals is done by people who imitate them in the studio but not the actual member
@@joooker13 I don't know about other Kpop groups but I know BTS and they genuinely can play instruments. 3 of the guys got classical piano training when young, one plays the saxophone and trumpet, 4 play the guitar and 2 the drums. All of them have producing and composing skills and are credited by the korean copyright association. All of them play the piano well enough to use producing equipment. They have filmed themselves doing so and there is an abundance of footage of them playing instruments causally.
@@dasanii2467 There are many kbands like The Rose, Lucy, Day6, ect that play their own instruments and have songs credited to their name. There are also self-producing groups like Stray Kids, BTS, and Seventeen as well as newer groups who're learning along the way and taking part in their discography like Xdinary Heroes, TXT. People can look overall on the industry, but not see that there is actual diversity and artists who're capable of being creative that they miss out on.
@@joooker13 I mean, we literally have bands in K-pop too.
DAY6 member Young K has composed, produced and written a good part of every album that DAY6 has ever brought out. The same counts for other Korean bands too, like Xdinary Heroes, ONEWE, FT. Island, CNBLUE and The Rose.
As far back as BIGBANG, who debuted in 2005 and are still going now, members of Korean groups have been writing their own songs. Hell, G-Dragon was literally known for writing some of BIGBANG their biggest hits. And you have 'self-produced' groups like Seventeen too, who handle everything from their music (which Woozi has a big part in), to lyrics (all of the hip-hop unit members write their own lyrics) to even their dances (Hoshi has done a lot of this).
With a little googling you would know how many Korean idols are credited as composers, lyrics writers and more.
Personally i think the main reason some men hate boybands is that it goes against what they've been taught and it scares them; they've been taught what traits are masculine and that women will be attracted to those, and that's what they think all men should perform. Then they see a bunch of guys who are the opposite of what they think men should be; they act soft, they show their emotions, and they *gasp* wear makeup. And not only are they accepted, they're praised by people and especially women. So it confuses and angers those men.
So i do think it mostly comes from their patriarchal minds.
I would say with bts it different because they are not marketing for teenager girls yes sure they have more females than males but the reason behind that is because people assume that their music is just like other boy bands and because they started Young when in reality most of their fans are adults and only few of them are teenagers and it shows in the statistic in this video and actually they started as a hip hop group and two of the members were underground rappers and another member was a street dancer and at the time when BTS debuted it wasn't an important thing in K-pop for groups to write their own music and since their debut all of them have credits in their songs(RM is the youngest and second most-credited songwriter in the association's(korea)history with more than 200 credits) and even one of the members who was an underground rapper sign with the company to be a producer and the three rappers of bts already released mixtapes and I saw a lot of reaction of dudes who actually don't like boy band or they are just into hip-hop become so shocked after reacting to bts because it's not what they actually expected because BTS focuses on everything they have their looks and dancing that attached teenagers but at the same time their music is not just about love it's about multiple topics in society like mental health self-love and they would criticize the education system of Korea and talk about the problems of the society etc... and they would do lives and releases a lot of interviews and stuff where they are talking about the process of making the album and unlike the Western groups who broke up and didn't resign their contract bts actually did resigned there contract in 2018/2019 for more 7 years and even now the reason why they have a break is because of military service and I know a lot of people would come and say that they are fake I would answer you that I've been following bts for 7 years now and I've known ton of boy bands no boy bands come close to the relationship that bts have between themselves don't tell me that a group would stayed and lived together at the same house for ten years(some members live together for 13 years)and how in the first place they become famous even in Korea there were much more popular groups than them who actually have big companies that can promote them and fun fact people would call them ugly because other groups have more handsome guys and how out of all the American and British boy bands that speak English they become more famous than them when we know so well how hard it is for a Korean speaker group to be that famous in America and it wasn't for like one or two years it's now for six years and BTS are now almost in their 30s (jin and suga are already 30 years old)
Never have I ever felt shameful in calling myself a BTS fan. They are artists with true talent. They have been discredited by society but Im thankful that I gave them a chance without any prejudice.
Talent how?
@@motherisape why dont you check their albums and performance.
@@motherisapego check them out & see
What’s is odd to me is rock bands from back in the day wore makeup and “feminine” clothing as well. Like look at Led Zeppelin shows during their prime in the 70s. They’d wear high heels, makeup, tight clothing. Punk bands in the 2000s did even more. And yet the people consider them to be like the peak representation of masculine artists. But this Seems to be a particular problem with kpop because a lot of westerners have, for many years, attempted to emasculate Asians.
I think it's related to the music genre as well. Rock and metal sound more "hardass" so to speak, and overall sound much more dominant; they give a sense of power when you listen to them. Mötley Crüe is good example I think, because even though they dressed feminine and wore makeup, they did get girls a lot (like A LOT), they still had a huge male audience too because of the aggressiveness of the hair metal genre. Not to mention a good amount of their songs, especially in terms of lyrics, catered to a male audience in a many ways. Looks that kill and girls girls girls come to mind immediately.
@auren4048 There's something I noticed about the way women tend to be portrayed with rockstars vs. with boybands, and I'm starting to wonder if it plays a part as well? I've seen this discussed with another comment.
In many music videos I've seen of rockstars, most of the women are portrayed as disposable "props" to say the least? And it's no surprise that many rock songs tend to be about sex. Like in Girls Girls Girls by Mötley Crue, most of the women are strippers who surround the guys and there's a lot of nudity as well. Contrast it with most of the stuff you see with boy bands, who tend to portray the girls as someone who matters to them? They seem to be constantly addressing them and being sweet with them, talking about romance and happily ever after and all that?
I hated Boys band in my younger years but once i've give it some interest (thanks to my girlfriend), i've learned to like it. Even if i prefere girls band (it's just a matter of taste, i appreciate more a woman voice than a male one when it comes to singing.) i can appreciate some bands. I have to confess i'm jealous of those good looking guys. ^^' But now i have some posters hanging right in front of me and i just don't care so much. I've learned it's a tough job and it require talent etc... I really love K-pop but it took me time to learn, to open up to new things. I think most guys don't want to open up to these things because they will feel less manly and will feel like they are not as seductive than these guys. (Wich is probably true, come on have you seen them? ;) )
At least i think we can agreed on one thing: male boys bands look better than the girls one. It feel less oversexualised (even if it's a bit.) or disgusting. Guys are rarely half naked, they don't wear skirts or really short t-shirts. I don't know if boys band have as strange fans as the girls band can have... BUT one thing is problematic in this business, especially in K-Pop: how the fan reacts to personnal matter of a group's member. In my opinion, they should have relationships, enjoy their young adult life etc... They have the right to live and even to make mistake if they want. They don't have to submit to their fans and their surreal expectations. They are humans, god damn it ! :/
I do think the "these guys are taking away potential mates" thing is an element, especially when combined with the the addition of "they are taking them away from ME a Real Man." I think the purely competition aspect is combined with patriarchal ideas of what makes a man-- the kind of man that patriarchy believes should get women; when a man who doesn't fulfill this expectation gets as much or more interest from women, that's a problem. The attractive man is somehow a fake, or not even a man at all; the women are experiencing attraction "incorrectly," and SHOULD actually prefer someone more in line with male expectations of masculinity.
The perfect encapsulation of this is Rudolph Valentino. Despite existing long before boy bands were even thought of, women were Wild for him, and men committed themselves to hating him. Guys wrote newspaper pieces about why women should want a "real man" like John Barrymore rather than Valentino; they claimed he was gay; they went into hysterics when he wore jewelry; one even challenged him to a fight to prove all this (and then chickened out)-- all of this despite Valentino's affairs with women and multiple marriages, successful career, interest in boxing and sports and chiseled physique. Basically Valentino was proof that men could be different than what was typically on offer, and in fact could look, act, and dress in ways women actually preferred to the patriarchal standard-- for men who were committed to the idea that their own image of masculinity was the only valid one, Valentino was not only competition, he was a threat on every level.
I think boy bands in general but Especially kpop generate hate for a lot of the same reasons; men want women to be attracted to them while they uphold male (and often patriarchal) ideas of masculine appeal, and are mad when they don't. When a man comes along who actually pays attention to what women think is attractive and behaves or appears in that way, they prove that men are not somehow incapable of pleasing women, and that men who work TO please women get the lion's share of female attention and interest. This is threat to patriarchal ideas because a. what men think should be good enough for everyone, and b. this could cause women to develop standards and awareness! And since the men doing the critiquing are usually nowhere near as attractive or successful as the men being critiqued, the only effective tool the critique-ers have is the claim of inauthenticy-- these men are not what they seem because their talent is not real, or because their maleness is not.
Exactly.
I’m a dude, but to love BTS. I don’t really consider them kpop though, they make kick ass music!
Kpop has all kinds of genres ranging from Pop, Hip Hop, RnB, EDM, Rock, Tropical House, Ballads, Classical, Traditional, etc. and there's definitely a lot of songs that have really catchy and genuinely good music and many diverse, interesting and unique groups that write and produce their own music. There's nothing wrong with liking Kpop.
@@Kalakeiko you are literally everywhere when there BTS is mentioned, did you ever seen army begging like these under other group content? We literally started with 10 army fan acc on Twitter,who were RAT and fan of ugly boy BTS according to kpop stan and now that they have gained fan , you guys just can't accept the fact that those 7 boy has fan who are not interested in kpop
Coming from a girl who used to spend a little bit of time hating boy bands as a Teen. a) I hated them because every other girl seemed to love them, and I thought I needed to find a way to be different and not like other girls and b) I thought if I publicly hated them I could avoid resentment and disapproval from my male peers, who directed resentment and disapproval towards any girl who was heavily invested in a boy band or similar figure (Justin Bieber etc). Really, if I'm being honest with myself, as a teen I was of utterly zero social value whatsoever. I had no popularity and NO dating value. Considering this, I probably thought hating on boybands and similar figures would give me some kind of dating value or social value to male peers, lol. It never did. People, just please wait till you get out of highschool before you start worrying about how undateable you are, the real world cares so much less.
New thought: On the other side of the coin, I had such chronically low self esteem as a teen, and at 15, I had seen all my peers going on dates, getting together, reaching all the coming-of-age "dating milestones". I thought I wasn't worthy of the dating world because the closest I had come to it was a year 7 boy asking me if I was a lesbian because he'd actually never seen me with a boy, romantically. Way to rub it in you little brat. In a way I probably saw the girls who lurrrrrved boybands as my own competition. As far as I was concerned every girl in the world was prettier, smarter, sweeter, cuter than me, so it's not like any of the song lyrics could have ever beeen written about someone like me either. These song lyrics are about girls like them, and they're being sung by boys like them. In short, "Boys Like Them would never sing Songs Like That about Girls Like Me."
Hot take: men who hate boy bands couldn't say "I love you" to anyone without thinking it makes them gay.
I was a pick me back in the day and I only made fun of boybands to appeal to guys I liked. But now I'm a lesbian so we learn and we grow!
I’m excited for this, because I’ve been wondering that myself.
So basically they are been bitter while using homophobia and skillfulness as cover...thought as much.
Be me a dude, be into kpop since BigBang, be called out, but now I stan LOONA and XG
As a kpop fan (not stan bc the fandoms are toxic as hell), I’ve personally seen a lot of hate on twitter. Most of the people who I’ve seen hate on kpop groups (the boy ones) are soccer stans who love to use the xenophobic “they look like girls!”. Most of it is trying to emasculate and feminise these men to try and “one up” or “prove they’re better” than them.
Also, a kpop group that has more male than female fans is Twice. The gender ratio for their fans is pretty even.
i think they meant kpop bgs that have more male than female fans, and also twice lost a majority of their male fanbase once they stopped doing their cute concepts and moved onto mature concepts, which is really creepy honestly😭
In the kpop industry most of the groups have a dating ban to make their fans feel like there could be a potential chance of their idols liking them back. Kinda an artificial delusion. Thus, calling them boyfriend/girlfriend bands is pretty accurate lol
10 points for adding Lucas! You just gave me nostalgia. And as a kid, I used to enjoy New Kids on the Block and mexican boy band Magneto. But as I hit puberty, I gravitated to rougher sounding groups. And poo pooed "sissy" (my words) sounding bands. As you get older you forget about both and cringe at memories of you being a boy band hater.
Anybody else just hates the commercialization of culture? I see no difference between a boyband and, say, Taylor Swift or Drake. I also hate Marvel movies and WWE. Yeah, I'm really fun to be around.
I have a question.and a theory. While the late 90s boy bands were hated on, Black or African American boy bands or R&B boy bay bands seemed to be more celebrated by men in the black community and other racial groups. For example I met a metal head who did not like NSYNC or BSB. But one of his first concerts were a BoysIIMen concert and he enjoyed it."If It Isn't Love" by New Edition seems to be played in every black cookout. A lot of 90s babies were born because their parents played Jodeci. If you don't know who they are look it up. Why do y'all think that is? Why are boy bands like BoyslIMen or Jodeci. Is it because they were not manufactured and were childhood friends? Is there a psychological reason. Because most black bands at the time do seem to meet in their neighborhood or school. Are they more real or something? Authentic? Better Vocals? Have different target demographics? Because I did notice that black boy bands were not targeted towards teenage girls. Not even black teenage girls. Boy bands like Jodeci targeted audience towards black adults or R&B fans of any race. I just thought it was interesting.
As a woman i dont like boy bands because i see them as a corporate product and the exact opposite of what i want music to be. I dont have a problem if people like them but that doesnt mean i cant be critical of them when discussing my opinions. Theyre the musical equivalent of harem anime or capeshit. A lot of music fans dislike boybands for this exact reason. Just because you like them doesnt mean there arent legitimate artistic criticisms to be had here.
As a girl, I hated one direction so much when I was young because my family would goad me saying I was in love with them when I just didnt care. Them pushing me one way made me beeline the other way.
I am an ARMY (BTS fan) and I think racism, xenophobia and superiority complex play a big part.
Edit: I want to expand this comment. I'll only speak about BTS because I don't know any other boyband. As an army I've often seen that people cherry pick some immature fans and some attention seeking cosplayers of army, and make them face or representative of the entire fandom, who have a population of any country in the world. And thus, we have the stereotype that army is toxic. This is not the full picture. While I agree that there are certainly rotten apples who make us look bad, who are still a big chunk of the fandom, they are certainly not the representative. Any immature behaviour is often called out by responsible fans, but as I said army is as big as a country's population we can't control everyone. But the "toxic" label and "15 year old screaming teen girls" stereotype are obviously the result misogyny, racism, xenophobia and superiority complex of the Western men and music industry.
I think there's something missing here in this analysis. For example, let's try to make an inverted universe where popularists (a.k.a. jocks) are the boybands instead of the model boys. What I imagine will happen is that most of the hatred will come from the Unpopulars instead of the model boys, because 'bruhh it's just too hard to start working out!'. That's because the muscled popularists are the archetypes of peak masculinity, the male ideal of strong, thriving in challenges, capable of facing anything. Masculinity is an ideal for even those 'model boys' to strive for and train to be better. If you dislike the peak masculinity, maybe you're just jealous or you are those people who hate masculinity as a whole. There is also a high possibility for hate because of their rebellious behavior, but those are generally frowned by the society as a whole.
As many has commented here, it's more of the men's betrayal of their masculine values. They 'denied' their masculinity for something feminine such as feelings. Feelings and sensitivity are generally discouraged among men. Conversely, girls like those 'feminine' men because those men can touch their hearts.
In conclusion, those boybands find themselves in a difficult position among men. The 'jocks' are hated by the people who don't want to improve themselves. The 'boybands' are hated by both of them.
Hm ...
Here is why: A Boyband is Onlyfans for teenage girls.
I said it here. It costs almost as much money as well if you want to stan them. Maybe more. And I think everything that wants to sell you either a girlfriend or boyfriend experience is creepy. Go outside and look for a real human being and grow as a person instead of rotting in your fantasy world that you bought for money. My hate is based on this: a predatory behavior sucking the lifeblood of a wonderful human emotion, to make money.
I feel like your argument about some "teenage girl interests" being less criticised is not very well supported by your examples. You cite Harry Styles and clearly he's still receiving a lot of hate for being liked by girls and being perceived as effeminate/gay. One Direction having been booed is very anecdotal (other groups haven't so it's not like it's a criteria), but also Styles was heckled at the Grammys just last February. And overall isn't it just in support of what you say later, that the hate diminishes with the aging of band members and their public?
Also I'm confused as whether you include Twilight and High School Musical in the hated or praised media? With the editing and phrasing it sounds like you're putting it with the praised stuff, and if that's the case, I disagree so much. I was a teenager at that exact time and it was insane how they were put down for being liked by teenage girls, and how much at the same time girls around me who still liked them dissed them in public to be "not like the other girls".
If I understood that part correctly, and in addition with what I said first, it kinda makes me think you might have (had) a very specific circle with opinions unrepresentative of the group you're trying to analyse here.
I disagree with the conclusion of the video: first of all, why not being in a boyband anymore is a testament to the performer's talent? Doesn't this mean that it is taken for granted that, somehow, boybands are less valuable than a single performer because of all the stereotypes and prejudice that are attached to them? Also, teenage girls' agency is never taken into account. It is taken for granted that they are victims of a system that exploits their hormones or whatever, as in they are not capable of liking an artist exactly because of that because they like their music/performance, etc. Imho, the reason why men tend to hate boybands so much is that boybands are created taking into account the female gaze not the male one. Once The Beatles started to present themselves in a less "pretty fashion" (therefore, "dissociating themselves symbolically" from their female audience) they were coincidently recognized by the male-dominated music industry. I don't know. It seems to me that the explanation, at the end of the day, is mostly misogyny and that men, generally speaking, tend to like men.
Great video ! As a boy, I have a better understanding of the hate dudes can have about boys band. For the part concerning the fact that boy bands are considered gay, I would say that this is partly due to the target audience. The members of boy bands have an appearance and an attitude that deviates quite a bit from the conception of an attractive man from a man's point of view (as you explained in your video "Male vs Female Gaze") without mentioning the lyrics which seem quite cheesy and express a form of weakness (I realize that I grew up in a "tough boy" community) or more generally, a boy does not see his friends behaving this way, so it can be confusing the first time
Anyway, thank you for this video. We see the effort you put into creating quality content. I learned a lot thanks to this channel and I look forward to seeing your next releases
This is baffling to me cuz im a guy that’s been into kpop for over a year now and i am so damn incredibly invested into the whole franchise that is kpop. Im now somewhat blind towards the anti sentiment of kpop but i realized it just seemed to just be pure immaturity stemming from fragile masculinity and a bit of deeprooted homosexuality. Basically to my understanding i just think that almost every single guy hates boybands because they are, subconsciously, wayyy too afraid of stepping out or not conforming to the societal/gender norms of society, so they then become defensive and eventually rationalize that they need to verbally attack them instead in order to devalue them in their own brain and see themselves as higher than them in terms of value.
I remember time when I was so invested into my music realm (heavy metal/hard rock) that I had to fight and find everything pop-related repulsive to an extent that I hated boybands without even knowing anything about them but because I had to hate pop and at the time boybands (who are inherently very poppish) had the most media exposure and screen time so my dislike of pop transpired to them.
Literally even without listening to them
Also what people on your insta responded can be seen as ableist "why do they obsess over these boy bands blah blah blah" most "obsessions" are actually special interests young girls have but since young girls have often been discredited when it comes to possibly having autism or ADHD, then people are ableist towards them bc they can't understand their "obsession", so i think we can come to the conclusion that hate on boy bands come to these issues in men and allistic afab people:
1. Misogyny
2. Homophobia
3. Toxic Masculinity
4. Ableism
Or maybe these boybands just look ridiculous to people who like music of substance over flashy dances and expensive suits and makeup, and maybe fangirls do actually behave quite ridiculously at times.
Not everything is toxic masculinity or homophobia or whatever else simply because it goes against something you like. You can't throw bigotry labels around like they are candy, we are talking about skinny korean dancers, not lynching gay people.
Grow up
that's such a great point, glad someone brought it up
@@vladutzuli When you mention flashy suits, you reminded me of the earlier era of kpop where they had this futuristic vibe in just about every music video. As a little kid I honestly did not find the music extremely beautiful or anything, but I engaged in it because the dances were fun and the music sounded weird and the hairstyles and clothing were just straight up wacky. It felt more like a meme and a culture rather than purely music. I think that’s what it was meant to be lol. Just for fun. Now I’ve expanded into other sub genres of kpop where they straight up don’t even have music videos so if I like a song, it definitely just has to be for the music, especially since I find most of it on Spotify now and have no idea what the artist looks like 😂
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️…no comments
I feel like my being a lesbian kpop fan (and the existence of other fans who aren’t physically attracted to the performers) kind of breaks this theory by counterexample lol. That’s the thing with evolutionary psychology. It’s cool to think about though. I can definitely still see (and have seen) men feeling threatened by boy bands/kpop idols.
I mean sure there are ppl who don’t feel any attraction to the groups, but there’s a reason why kpop labels prioritize looks when choosing to sign groups.
When i was an angry metal kid, my opinion on them was the same ol “fake and ghey” insults. Now in my 20s i vibe with BTS and NewJeans during my workouts lol.
I find it so entertaining that many "men" are so against K-pop artists. Because, in their eyes, it's horrible when a young Asian man happens to be attractive and also creates music. For them, it's the end of the world. These guys haven't even heard the music K-pop artists make, and they're so quick to jump on the hate train. At least know where you're going.
I also personally don't understand what's wrong with a woman liking K-pop or boy band artists. I mean, I'm the bane of society in their eyes. I'm a young woman who likes K-pop (even went to a Stray Kids concert), enjoys other foreign media, and gets excited over simple things like that. Like mate, calm down. If you're jealous, you weren't going to get my attention in the first place.
Part of it has to stem form racism, because, oh no, a Korean person making music? And the rest has to be homophobia (calling idols gay for wearing a skirt and makeup, or enjoying traditionally "feminine things") and misogyny (disliking someone or something because women like it)
Back to the racism factor, there's also stereotypes surrounding Asian men, and just being looked down for because the shape of their eyes is different or because they speak a different language.
Guys don't also consider the music. Yes, Jimin sounds like a woman sometimes when he sings, but that doesn't apply to every artist. BTS also isn't the only notable artist. If you like rap, K-pop has incredible raps. I know Seo Changbin, RM, Suga, Han Jisung, the list goes on, are all amazing. Not to mention, all of these artists who I've named all write their own stuff (I know Changbin and Han for sure are involved with actual track making). If you care about vocals, there's vocals. If you like EDM, we have EDM. Just because it is foreign, and by an attractive, popular, male Asian artist, that doesn't make it bad.
(Sorry if this was a messy comment)
Idk feel like you are kinda straw manning the actual points why ppl might dislike kpop and only consider the obviously stupid ones. I went out of my way to challenge my perception of kpop and the fans and now my perception is worse than before.
@@tostupidforname Could be! I was referring to the base assumption people tend to make, and not the case when they actually check out the songs.
If it's not your cup of tea, then you just don't like the style, and everyone's taste is different. (Ofc, with k-pop simply referring to idol music, it's hard to define its style but there still is something to it)
The fan are definitely... something to say the very least. As a fan myself, I find a good majority of the ones online to be the issue.
Honestly speaking, I also didn't have a good perception of k-pop, mainly from ARMYs and Blinks (BTS/Blackpink stans), so I completely understand what you mean.
@@jaimeglen7527 Thanks for the interesting comment.!
It's not always race related, and it's not always that deep. I am a man that doesn't like boy bands or k-pop. Why? Because i don't like the sound, i'm not a fan of pop or pepy music. However.. No diggity by blackstreet is 🤌. Not sure if you'd count blackstreet as a boy band or not though
@@dt843 Thanks for the recommendation! And i personally wouldn't count Blackstreet as a boy band
As a male fan of boybands I found the this video very interesting. Due to my age and location I was mostly a fan of the irish bands Boyzone and Westlife, the later is still touring and doing their first US tour ever in March. I also have tickets to see Ronan keating the main singer from Boyzone later this year. While these are my favourite bands I had (and still have) CDS from basically every other BB at the time from Backstreet Boys to 911 to LFO. And did want to be in or form a boyband myself
A line I used to hear alot from guys when talking about different Boy Bands was “I don't like them but I like (some of) their songs' '. I remember going to concerts in the 90s and like there would hardly be any other guys there and those that were, were mostly boyfriends. Heck its still the case now.
When I went to see Westlife at the end of 2022 there were very few men at it and mostly boyfriends/husbands. One of the members did call out male fans which I liked, but also two guys got into a fist fight at the bottom of the stage.
I have noticed some shows and films set in the 80s and 90s making reference to closeted male Boyband fans It Chapter 1 one of the characters has a NKOTB poster on his door and in The Goldbergs Adam and his brother admit to also been NKOTB fans and go to their concert something which was true for the characters in real life.
It was lonely being a male fan of BoyBands at the time. In the same position today I would reach out to others online and maybe try and form or join male boyband fan groups but in the 90s and early 00s that wasn't an option.
I do also listen to alot of Kpop or watch it on YT - maybe some of the only modern music I enjoy probably because the sound and visuals do remind me of 90s music but I have a very basic understanding of the scene and do not follow the drama.
PS Only found your channel over Christmas but enjoying the videos. Keep it up
As a guy who enjoyes k-pop, initially just female groups, I wanted to be more open-minded and talked to my friends who shared the same interest and tried to listen to boy band music too. I found a few songs that I liked, but in the end it was still a very small part of my music taste. I get why dudes are insecure about boy bands under machismo culture, but as I get older that whole shtick gets dumber and seems to matter less. Nowadays If something sounds good, then it sounds good.
I’d love to know more about the “unpopulars” opinions. Also, I think there’s a deeeeep well to explore regarding homophobia here! Interesting video, as always!
Before i start the video, the short answer imo is a combination of misogyny, homophobia and internalized patriarchy (ideals of masculinity mostly). And a quick note, though I'm not sure the beatles will be mentioned here, I think the reason they get a pass is that they are and were largely perceived as representatives of counterculture.
I hate them because, why should a girl be so obsessed with them?
These are feminine, maybe even gay guys, that are celebrities and just make music. Yet so many girls have been drawn into revolving their lives around them nearly like an obsession, but for what purpose and why? I would liken it to p*rn, as the girls that watch it will never get anything out of it, yet despite that they keep being addicted to it because of the guys popularity and looks.
And guess what, i hate p*rn. As it distracts you from what you actually should be doing with your life, and makes you instead obsess over some unobtainable fake bs, just like what these k-pop groups does to girls.
From personal experience too, my girlfriend was a massive k-pop fan, and i didn't like that, but mostly didn't think much of why she was obsessed with these other guys, until it began irking me enough that i looked through what she was commenting and liking. There i noticed she had been liking thirst-compilations of these k-pop guys, as well as on their official posts she had been obsessing over them calling these guys her "love" and her "husbands" and that they are "so hot" and that she loves them so much apparently. When i read those things my heart dropped, as why the hell is she saying these things about other guys while we are in a relationship. I confronted her about it and she said she:
"doesn't know why she said those things as she actually doesn't think those things that she said"
Skipping some things, it ended up with me telling her to stop following those groups, and stop liking anything they do either. She still does listen to their music and so on tho, so i guess i simply can't know how she feels about them, other than to have faith in her. But it really pisses me off how she actually said those things and committed herself to those random dudes while she was in a relationship with me. Somehow her obsession went that far, for these random gay dudes that have no personality or moral character to speak of.
Dudes can't handle a tiny bit of their own medicine (beauty standards) and male kpop artists are good looking
Only 8 minutes in, so I haven't finished the video yet. But the way I've always seen it, is insecurity. The guys in boy bands tend to be very attractive, and girls and women, obviously, think as much. Men generally don't like 'pretty boys' for various reasons, from being insecure in their own appearance, to their 'toxic' view on what a man should look like. You see it was ANY musicians that are attractive. I think Andy from Black Veil Brides is a good example. He(and the rest of the band) got a lot of hate when they were first blowing up, largely because 'they look like girls.' They were pretty, and dressed in a sort of glam rock way. And guys, especially metal heads, HATED them for it.
Harry Styles doesn't get as much hate as a solo artist as One Direction as a whole did, but there are still plenty of guys out there who hate him simply because he's attractive and popular with women and young girls. Same with Justin Bieber, Shawn Mendes, and so on. If those artists weren't conventionally attractive, I think they'd get WAY less hate.
Its a bit extreme to most dudes 'hate' boy bands or kpop, maybe there might be a minority of them who truly hate them, but for most dudes either they don't really like the music and don't care , or they are annoyed by the colors and the concept that these
bands embody...this is coming from a 'dude' by the way.
I hate Boy-Bands because, according to the fanbase, there is nothing more "feminine and empowering" than cashing in on the romantic, sexual insecurities of teenage girls with an empty perception of masculinity, for the price of having a generation of young girls and boys further divided by involvement with toxic fanbases obsessed with things like pornography and high consumerism, girls who will suffer greatly in relationships because of a distorted view of an "ideal man". In exchange, the industry sells you an empty, uninspired, visual-based product, ready for high consumption that will probably make you sick and forget about it after a while. Women, in short they're selling you a Ken Doll and making a fool of you in the process, and you're still proud of it.
I’ve seen this before, and It sucks to see when women compare “feminine” men off of male actors, fictional characters, and boy bands, and then say that men should be more like them, or saying that feminine men are more “safer” than masculine men, as if men are dangerous, and too rough, too stoic and aggressive, and “toxic” if they are not feminine and emotional like that or will put down men in some sort of way, as we are all predatory it seems.
The emotional part especially is weird since being emotional in this context just seem to range from only being vulnerable and crying when it comes some women talking about tv tropes that and talking about why xyz character is hot or romantic, but I kinda doubt being actually emotional would get you that far, and is an easy way to get called fragile or toxic rather than it looking cute like in a movie.
It’s like seeing some women fall for a perfect Disney Prince trope and then that person says “this is what more men should be like” as if that prince wasn’t literally written or marketed to be perfectly appealing to her.
My opinion before watching the video, based on my own experience: They hate em because they're popular with girls and specially teenage girls, making them incredibly jealous.
My opinion after: Mostly reafirmed, but that stud vs investor theory is 10000iQ and way more detailed than what I ever thought, it sounds spot on. Weirdly enough, I was an "investor male", and I still hated boybands out of pure unexplored jealousy and awarded them all the typical criticisms showed in this video.
After growing up I now super vibe with all pop and kpop, including boy bands. One Direction slapped, their songs are so much fun to sing in karaoke nights.
bts was a boyfriend group-ish when they debuted but as they became older their music became more about self love and so on. also even when bts just debuted they made a lot of songs about the school system and how fucked up everything is. this is also why they gained such a big and loyal fanbase.
' I am pretty sure I can kick their asses ' 💀💀💀💀💀
Jeon Jungkook , Park Jimin have entered the chat with their innumerable & whatnot trainings...
definitely could snap anyone's neck 😂 ... they choose peace 😅 so should we
I also find it funny in general when I hear ( regardless of gender) of when people say “ They don’t write their own music!” I never understood this kind of ‘insult’. Because at the end of the day if the song sounds good then why would i care if they wrote the song or not?
Because it is a plus to compose because it separates you from the rest who only know one thing
@@pandoraantonia yeah i get that it’s a ‘plus’ but hating an artist because they don’t write their music is dumb tbh
Depends. If music is only a commertial product for you then sure. Some ppl listen to music for the meaning.
@@tostupidforname there can still be meaning even if it isn’t produced by that person, it depends on how good the artist is to rely the message back.
at its core, it's classic misogyny: anything young girls enjoy is automatically disregarded. what is liked by dudes, is praised. it's just another subtle subproduct of the patriarchal cultural background. We can add things as how manufactured and fake these boybands are in general, or the simple fact that dudes feel intimidated by the attention these boybands get from girls. but it's mostly the disregard for anything ¨girly¨ as something lack of real value
I am a woman, and i have never liked boybands at all, but i've enjoyed a ton of girlbands simply because girlbands have a fun dynamic that boybands don't have and most of the ones i grew up with like the sugababes or destiny's child just simply make higher quality music that i still enjoy today. Imo, it seems most men dislike boybands specifically for their music and manufactured image. But men who hate boybands for those reasons aren't as vitrolic as men who go on to call them gay or wish death on them. For the more aggressive men, I strongly believe it's because they feel some sort of jealousy towards them due to their popularity with women. Men are told that they need to be aggressive or excessively chauvinistic according to the advice of other men to get women. Then these "soft boys" come along and completely defy their own understanding of female psychology. In some sense, they know they can not compete with these men and are jealous of their sexual desirability that seems to have been earned by respecting women and making them happy instead of being rough, aggressive and angry brutes that they aspire to be or are probably are. You can even tell the difference between women and girls who gravitate towards boybands and to more aspirational figures to males such as athletes and rappers. Those women and girls are typically seen as virginal, pure, and typically have that sense of innocence women who fawn over athletes and rappers do not have. At the same time, plenty of men see these women as needing boybands to cope with the fact that they are sexually undesirable or hate them for simply fantizing about men who are successful and attrative instead of average joes like themselves abd explicitly want to destroy their confidence to make them want lower value men like themselves. It's not exactly a straightforward explanation, but this is just my observation from examining these men for two decades at this point.
I can’t speak for all boy bands because I don’t follow them but for bts specifically…I just think people give them a chance. For example when I got into bts my dad made an effort to look into what I found so special about them and he was surprised at their genuine artistry and dedication to their craft. Their performance ability specifically (since he use to be a dancer) interested him because of their attention to choreography. He said it was just random cool tricks but cohesive with the lyrics and vibe of each song.
I’ve also been watching this TH-camr who is a j cole fan react to bts after he saw the collab he did with j hope and it was the same thing - shocked to see that these guys are REAL rappers. He was genuinely upset no one told him about them sooner.
Like Suga said, “you will like bts if you listen without prejudice” 🤷♀️
I genuinely tried to challenge my negative perception of BTS but it just justified it.
For me personally, I have a problem with things that people won't shut up about. The first thing I actively hated was sports. Since my dad and I shared a TV when I was younger, it took time away from my video games and I couldn't stand all the screaming that my dad and his buddies would do at the players that I knew that they knew couldn't hear them. I was also forced to go to games with hundreds of people just as loud as my dad and his friends, right in my ears, for hours. The second thing I hated was boy bands. The girls in my schools would not shut up about them. Everyone was talking about them. They were all the rage. After that, it was wrestling. My mom's side of the family bought wrestling games, wrestling posters, wrestling toys, watched wrestling every night, and wouldn't stop talking about it. And I am sure, for all these people, I talk way too much about video games.
It's just kind of weird to me to make music for teenage girls as a grown man...