WOW! This is an eye opener. A boat priced at USD500,000 actually costs USD924,000 unless you are ready to live a spartan life after investing half a million! So Bavaria follows the "`BMW trick". Starting price is Toyota but when you equip it to Toyota level, you pay at least 50% more, though all due respect Bavaria is not the BMW of the boats... And actually here the mark-up is more than 50%...
A very refreshing and honest accounting from someone that can obviously afford the boat they’ve chosen. Most people wouldn’t be so forthcoming about the financial side of owning such a large boat. Thank you James and Filipa for your candor and good humor, you seem like really nice folks.
at that point it doesnt matter if the boat costs 1 million or 2 million. But it does sometimes help people who are after second hand or older yachts make a decision.
I would love a boat with standing headroom and I bet they don't know what bucket and Chuck it means, salt water natures disinfectant My well equipped Elizabethan 23 cost me 4 thousand pounds 20 years ago sails like a 5 knot OCC 6 dream I'm not envious at all but good information in case I win the lottery. PS nice people.
Get a cockpit refrigerator for beer. A water maker will keep me out of marinas. I probably don’t need underwater lights. Consider a used boat. Hold back some final payment until all problems are fixed. Stay close and sail often until all systems are well tested. In the Mediterranean budget for lots of fuel and/or get a good light air sail. In the Caribbean budget for Insurance and air conditioning. Get a Dive Compressor. 😃 Mo Money Mo Problems.
Join the Royal Navy at 17 and obtain Mariner's skills and qualifications. Retire 10 years later, work for 10 years on luxury vessels cleaning and sailing for billionaires and their escorts, then with savings, buy a decent second hand yacht and follow Mr English Coach Chad's list of suggestions. Keep in mind that something like a Bavaria yacht costs the same as a Mortgage within the edges of the M25. Good luck. And oh yes, open a TH-cam channel and produce content. All the best. (This upload gets a thumbs up from me).
I’m building a cat in Asia, but I plan to live near the builder’s boatyard for a year after it’s built and sail it there to get all the bugs out while living nearby. I’ve owned enough boats to know how it works. My builder is totally open to that, and will make adjustments/repairs as necessary. But I will be retired at that point, so can spend the time there. I wouldn’t buy a boat expecting to sail away. Even used. Spend some time near good mechanics and yards until the kinks are worked out.
Sardinia Corsica fuel ! Yep … everything is expensive there. I found eating ashore cripplingly expensive too and I’m not poor ! 😂 I agree with other comments here … James and Philipa have been very candid here ! (Extremely useful for those of us who are returning to sailing after a 20 year break !) What a lovely couple… best wishes.
One of the best, if not the best, sailing videos I have seen. Informative, interesting, down to earth and honest, brilliant. A must see for any one wishing to do this lifestyle. The numbers might be scary but you can equate them to any size of yacht. Fantastic job.
Had a Beneteau 432.....as with All new boats we have issues. Lost 10 lbs during the commissioning. It was also 3 weeks late. Our boat show purchase had a few good options included to help with sales including most of the instrumentation we needed. Of course we added lots more. In the small print they are allowed to make cosmetic changes. Found out through our owners group they were removing some internal teak. I was able to have some installed but no all. Made me sign a nondisclosure agreement that I would no tell others of our agreement. Opps.....love the boat but they can be a pain to purchase. If you buy a used boat you may not get exactly what you wanted but if a survey is done properly at lease you know what your getting.
Got to agree with James! Bavaria UK does not actually exist. Clipper Marine the UK distributor is as about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike. Bavaria GMBh dont answer their emails, push everything back to the UK distributor and if you take legal action they (Clipper) have no assets. The boats on their books are owned by the banks (check companies house) Our list of issues were quite long and after 2 years of battling Clipper, Getting Bavaria to do something and even complaining to the British Marine Industries Federation over their (Clippers) 17 breaches of the code of conduct we got us nowhere. We had to do all the retro work ourselves. (which was probably better) The bill just for just putting their work right was £12,783.00 and £6,740 in Legal fees to pursue them. That's a bitter pill to swallow on the start of a sail away dream!! But it goes on... The extra we paid for the upgraded seating? 5 Years on? It all is having to be replaced. Cost £800.00. Copper coat we paid extra for from new? Has been now been replaced twice after Clipper made a mess of it. (wrong prep and primer) It's now going to be done again properly by us. Cost? £578.00 for materials and then the lift. Don't get us wrong; The boat is great, fast, strong, and just what we wanted. The process to get us where we wanted to be has left us disappointed, out of pocket and thinking much the same as James. Good video telling it how it is! Sail Safe Guys, Ant, Cid & the pooch crew.
T Sorry to read about your experience with Clipper Marine. However, I felt compelled to write something as I have bought 2 new Bavaria's from them, first in 2017 and then upgraded in 2019. Both came with issues but I have to say the after sales service and warranty work was excellent and I couldn't fault them.
I think that everybody who bought a Bavaria see 57 should hire an attorney and file a class action and yeah because they went into chapter something, there’s not a lot accountability but you can have them cited for Maritime on safety for provisioning boats that should’ve never been commissioned as seaworthy and you can get them that way and go after the administration and the people in the higher ups because once you file for administration, it’s still the same people running the show and you should go after them
@@maxflight777 Mainly poor (non existent) after sales service. They had no dedicated Bavaria approved or trained service team. The quality of the remedial works was appalling! They never returned emails or letters. They just kept kicking the can down the road until the 12 month warranty period was up. Then walked away. We are still dealing with issues around the poor remedial work to the Copper coat to the keel which was poorly applied and subsequently even more poorly applied through their contractor. The Copper coat is good but the substrate has delaminated for a third time. Yet again we find ourselves having to foot the bill to have the work done properly. Yes we would buy another Bavaria. However, we would have a full survey, reject the boat on delivery until all the remedial works are completed under our surveyors, and our supervision. We would not accept the boat or pay a penny until the surveyor was happy, we were happy and we had completed a minimum 50 hours of sea trials. Solid, fast boat let down by $h1t after sales.
Sorry, that wasn't a very good deal. Bavaria is known for their low quality and depreciation after buying a new boat is brutal. If blue water ability is required, I'd go for a used boat from high-quality brands like Amel, Hallberg-Rassy or some other yard on Orust. Preferably one that has done ocean crossings already.
This is S/Y Rain Finger, admiring your methodology. We circumnavigated in the 1980s. This trip we bought a used boat, hired subcontractors that we supervised, fitting out this boat (Bristol 35.5 with electric drive). In the Covid era there is a lot of talent, looking for work. You guys did a great job on your boat, and learned there is no substitute for experience when going to sea.
What a great interview and very frank... loved it! Yes! Now where's my lottery ticket! Nice boat, and for the size, not too expensive considering the specification you now have. You seem to be enjoying it but the Caribbean insurance costs are prohibitive. Great video Ryan and Sophie. It would have been nice to check out the sailing abilities of the Bavaria. Any issues with haul out on a boat that size?
How Filippa and James can afford this boat is none of my business. Their reasons for buying this boat is none of my business. My interest is in appreciating their lifestyle, the home they live in, and the fact they can go, literally, anywhere the water is deep enough to float their boat, And, btw, I also deeply admire Sophie and Ryan for what they have done. Yeah! :¬) Webhead USA
...... very interesting .... two upgrades that come to mind that, to me the non boat owner yet, stuck out, actually three, larger engine (so often when looking at used one questions if the motor would be adequate in a dire situation) electronics having the latest is paramount and thirdly refrigeration and found it interesting that they had an additional Dometic chest freezer in one of the aft cabins. Being able to stock up when you find economical supplies, stellar. Also enables to stay out longer without having to find somewhere to provision and that brings 4 the watermaker .... oh yes something not mentioned, a sextant, so to be always learning, so not lost when that solar flare comes or that lighting strike .... another great Sophie and Ryan installment, thx to the both of you .. as always never stop dreaming, just dream bigger .. have fun be safe, save our oceans .....
Same here, I would put the money to work in the stock market and use the dividends to pay for the luxury boat rental, complete with a personal chef and captain.
Buy well equipped 2-3 year new boat. In that way most of the teething problems are resolved and the optional equipment is near new and should be in good working order.
I would only consider buying a brand new ⛵ if I won the lottery. Even then all the overhead expenses like docking, fuel & insurance would make me think twice. Either way I would invest in renewable energy (like a bimini top solar panel and/or wind turbine) to minimize or eliminate fuel consumption.
Great video. I have been lucky enough to buy 2 new boats in the last 6 years - I agree with the comment - stay close to the dealer for the first 12 months! They don’t work out of the box like a car. The thing that surprised me most was that there is no safety kit included - no flares, life raft, beacon, heaving lines, jack stay etc. I appreciate that most people want to spec their own but a basic kit would have been good.
Hi Chris, the total price does include all the safety gear we have on board such as off shore life raft, EPIRB, life jackets, flares etc... But you are right that they are not included in the bareboat price!
What a beautiful boat ! That is probably the widest interior I've seen in a sailboat. I am weighing my options for a new vs used catamaran or restoring a racing/cruising trimaran so I can relate to this video.
Hi Ryan & Sophie, 2 times a day I am driving on the boulevard from Bonaire. And always looking to that beautiful boat of yours on the mooring. Enjoy our beautiful island and the Caribbean .
I mean, what if there is no water where you want to sail. Without a water maker you would be forced to stay in the sea. That's why I got a wind generator, just in case I want to sail and there is no wind.
The reason why most new boat owners choose to forego watermakers as an option when ordering their boat is because of how outrageously priced they are (upwards of 10-15k) James built his own watermaker before sailing over to the Caribbean which you can see at 10:36 :)
A big thank you for the candid information from your friends. Just to complete information on the other side of possibilities, I have bought a new boat from Bénéteau, an Oceanis 31 in 2018: basic cost was 78'000 Euros , options kept to a minimum but including transport was 19'000 Euros and the local preparation cost was 6000.- Total just over 100'000 eur or some 125'000 US$. I then added some improvements as a gennaker, solar pannel and some more instruments for some 5000 euros. A 31 footer is probably the minimum size to sail away, but I am not in this case, I sail on a lake in in the middle of Europe and my boat is 15 minutes away from my home. I paid 30% in advance, the big chunk before delivery and the last preparation cost to the dealer after a local check up sail. Very few hicups as the model is not a new one, it was in fact replaced two years later. All was basically taken care of by the dealer under warranty. I follow you Sophie and Ryan because of the brand of the boat and the technical advice you bring to the table, well... and also because of Sophie's smile....
What James is saying about "putting money in escrow" is utter nonsense, no offense. It's not some private garage you're dealing with. The company wants prepayment of 20% - you pay or you don't get a contract. They want the balance 3 weeks before delivery - YOU PAY or you start accumulating fines. You cannot dictate your conditions to a corporation. And no "solicitor" will help you if the builder goes into administration or bancruptsy. You will stand in a long line behind major creditors before they even look at you. What solicitor would do is make you feel safe right until the moment you lose all money and THEN you find out what HIS fees really are. Actually, most of what James is saying is nonsense. Again, no offense. Yes, options increase the final price, big surprise! You ever bought a car? He says it like they're trying to scam him, but they aren't. At boat shows you ALWAYS see the configuration sheets near every boat that give the base price of the boat and "this boat" price listing all the options. There are videos here on youtube verifying that! "A new boat has MORE problems than a used one"? Like what? I seriously suspect that what he meant was that installing extra equipment requires permission from the manufacturer or you lose your warranty. Come on, man! They "specified air-conditioning"? I cannot believe a 57-ft boat came without AC as standard. It simply does not happen. Even 30-footers these days come with CruiseAir. And no, you can't "customize and spec the boat exactly how you want". Maybe if you go bespoke and spend 2-3 million euros on a similarly sized Oyster or Contest or Swan. But NOT with Bavaria. You get to choose layout modules (usually 2-3 options max), you pick upholstery materials from a catalogue, a VERY short list of optional equipment (usually microwave and washer) and that's it. It's a mass-produced factory boat, that's why it's so cheap. Takeaway: even things you say in a sexy deep confident baritone can be utter nonsense. Especially when said in front of two women who don't have a clue. 🙂
Having purchased three new boats, over the last 20 years, our current being 51 foot and commissioned in 2019 I would whole heartedly agree with James’s comments, but the need to use expensive marinas in the Mediterranean, I would disagree. We have a water maker generator and solar panels and rarely use marines throughout the summer. Our annual berthing fees including winter lift and hard stand come to around 7000 euros, way below what James says he paid. For six months Mediterranean cruising our fuel bill is about 600 euros, we have the same 110hp motor.
Pretty surprising that a new boat comes with so many quality issues. I know that it is not specific to Bavaria. I've heard the same thing about Dufour, Benetteau etc. Why could they not bring them to some quality level like the car manufacturers achieved, I wonder...
Boats have much more systems and electronics than a car, also they are low volume. Just look at how many warranty visits low volume cars like ferrari/mclaren need.
Insurance has to be the most annoying costs, that you never need till you don't have it. But any place that has had huge write off costs associated with weather you see huge premiums. Very insightful video guys!
Thank you for making this video and to James and Philips for sharing their costs, great insight into the true costs of new boat ownership. I knew parts of the Med are very pricey but you really put some detail to that. Bavaria really ought to include the cockpit fridge as standard. Cheers
Since 1977 I have purchased three new boats. The more I spent, the worse they were as things were not working. The factory made many foolish mistakes. The people building your boat are non-sailors and don't have any experience on a ship at sea. I have been a full-time liveaboard, 44 years now and just have everything right. Too bad my age and health have caused me to limit my time at sea. Columbia 9.6, C&C Landfall 35, Sage 43. All were new. The first and last were semi-custom built for me, causing the most problems. The C&C was sitting at the factory for months waiting for a buyer. It had minor issues.
I wonder just how much sailing experience they had before embarking on such a huge journey. Did they learn "on the job"? I would love to learn to sail (which is why I enjoy these videos so much)!
Nice to have ... need to have ... want to have .. 3 completely different positions .. even with more than enough funds at my disposal and a bigger yacht than this I wouldn't have teak decking or 3 big fancy chart plotters to name but a couple of items. After several boats new my rule of thumb is bareboat plus 30% and it gets less each time.
Big thanks to James and Philipa for their very candid informational video! Sharing Aequis with all of us, your buying process, the good , bad and cautions that you’ve learned throughout the past two years. Love Aequis, she looks absolutely beautiful!! Thanks so much for sharing and Sophie, great job as always!!
Guys, thanks, this is one of the best videos out there. The honest experience, the value of lessons you learned and sharing with the rest of us for free cannot be appreciated enough. I especially like the part about all the nav gear, radar, lights... one would call it a luxury features, but in fact these are all safety features and from my point of view essentials, IF(!) someone plan to sail that much, crossing the oceans, spending months and months on the boat. I always thought these could be expensive, but that it will double the cost of the boat is an eye-opener.
I spent many years sailing around Italy and France, and we rarely ever stayed in marina's, plenty of places to live on the anchor. Croatia has plenty of place to anchor, Greece is really pretty much the sole hold out here, they are picky about where you anchor. Those are some pretty crazy prices that were posted in this video, I never came close to those numbers.
Seems like quality control is still a significant problem with boat manufacturers. They want stupid amounts of money, but then the boat is typically late on delivery and half the systems don't work properly. And there's zero accountability, unless you hold back a significant portion of money, but then they won't let you have the boat either. Smh.
These owners were right on point I bought a Jeanneau 519 new and found the process to be painful. I reluctantly upgraded to my currently Jeanneau 58 also new. While we love our 58 it too was painful working through all the items not just right. I like your guests have owned ours for going four seasons and have finally worked through all the corrective items but now I’m beginning into the normal maintenance items coming up . I too liked that I bought new but I think if you know what your doing you can find a well fitted resale boat too. I will say my Jeanneau came with many more of those items standard vs optional. 6 power winches, 4 heads, 5 ac units and many other items. So when you buy new you must throw a wide net.
Congrats on your boat and thanks for your insight. Did your warranty cover a lot of the issues? That feels like one benefit of buying new vs used. Thanks in advance!
Because you don't usually get to the point of being able to buy a million dollar yacht without making smart financial decisions ;) Watermakers as option upon commissioning are extremely expensive, while building your own only costs around a thousand dollars. Which James ended up doing ;)
One of the best and most direct cost to real ownership videos I have ever seen. Helped me and my family a lot. I hope you have continued success. Thanks!
Very nice couple and extremely nice of them to be so forthcoming about their experience and costs. Many TH-cam channels are exposing many facets of production boat mfg's shortfalls. A list of (or at least examples of) what a was not correct would be somewhat useful. I have now lived on my "new to me" 1991 Pacific Seacraft 37' for 1 1/2 years and have sailed it a couple thousand miles. Like many folks my departure timeline for cruising was delayed due COVID, with the upside being that am still realizing what I want to upgrade while still based out of my home port. Great video.
Buying a new sailboat is exactly like buying a new Porsche!! The price you start with vs the price you end up paying for after all the options makes the original price seem cheap......which is not😂😂
Thanks for the openness and transparency of this video. Maybe worth elaborating on the lifestyle choices leading to the costs in the Med. $20,000 for marina costs is expensive- did you move around a lot and therefore pay higher daily rates or have a fixed space in a nice marina ? And $11000 for fuel works out roughly at 11 500l tanks at $2 per liter. Even at 10l/hour fairly high rpm motoring, that’s well over 500 hours engine use. Absolutely no judgement here but moving on frequently or on a schedule can increase the cost compared to seeing where the wind takes you.
New or old boat alike, sail boats require constant maintenance! You are fighting the effects of mother nature 24/7! Salt water or fresh water, sun, wind and all weather, etc. My favorite European boat is the Amel Super Maramu. Check out SV Delos. They bought the boat fairly new and have been sailing around the world for 10+ years. They document a lot of their maintenance. Even on my Catalina 27, I spent as much time on maintenance as I did sailing. I wouldn't change it for anything. While I always enjoy touring the new sailboats at the local boat show, I don't think I'd consider buying a brand new boat. I am particularly not fond of the wheels on new boats, the Amel though is perfect and as I prefer it to be placed and sized, and that there is only 1! Fair winds and following seas!
It is so non-productive to tell somebody what they should have done. Anyway there are a number of reasons why they bought this particular boat. Also an Amel is much more for a seasoned sailor.
I love the transparency of these guys. I’ve heard the hidden cost and breakdown costs of new boats before. It seems like the way to go is buy a strong 20 year old hull and replace everything, including the engine… then stay local and try to break stuff for a while.
That would seem to be the clever alternative, but it has a lot to do with the grass always being greener on the other side of the fence. If you like old heavy hulls you might save a large amount getting a good price. The second part of your plan is a complete bust! Everything you refit to an old boat costs far more, has more quality problems, and loses more than half its resale value the second you install it! Find some fool that did everything you want but now needs to sell... This couple did a fine job putting together a fine boat. If you think $1M is not a good deal, talk to a guy that paid that much or more for a divorce...
@@skyak4493 in the early 1990s manufacturers learned to lay fiberglass in temperature controlled environments. Strength and longevity is based on hull thickness. The lightweight sandwiched hulls some manufacturers today are making haven’t been tested through time and do not survive impacts. Sailboats have ballasted keels… lightweight doesn’t mean much. Also, when you buy a new boat it does not come with the things you would expect. Most of it is aftermarket installed by a local technician during the commissioning process. People have an idea in their heads that a new boat is better and more reliable… not true. Save $500,000 get a used hull and replace everything… engine, instruments, heater, air conditioner, batteries, solar, windless, mast, sails, everything…. A hull is just a design and a platform to install everything you need.
Bavaria yachts loose a ton of money.There is a 56. 2015 for sale for £200.000 the broker fee has to come of that,and any problems found on the survey.and the mooring cost waiting to sell it.Say you bought that and spent 100,000 .You may have a boat thats 6 years old.but you would have saved yourself.£500.000.I also like the layout on the 56 to the 57.
Thanks to all on this video, seriously a full understanding of the cost and the resources needed from someone that can afford this life style. The one thing I have noticed on all sailing channels, is the endless maintenance issues. Clearly, James and Philipa have significant wealth to pull this off without much concern.
Actually the large Hard Aircraft Hold type Wheeled Suitcases are Really useful on a boat. .pad them inside (towels etc) and they're really good for keeping delicate electronics spares in, for example, if you have the room. Plus of course Yiu can get Waterproof ones that Float, abd they can be used as Wheeked Shopping Bags to easily transport purchases when provisioning, and if you miss the Dinghy, they can float or be towed back slowly to the boat ? On my last boat, one was brilliant for organising stuff in the V Berth Forward Storage. A Hard Cabin Flight Bag can be a great organiser for under Berth Storage too. Most of the stuff the US Coastguard Wanted to see, when they asked me to invite them aboard (great people by the way, they really impressed me) was in one Convenisntly under the Pilot Berth next to the Companionway. They did ask me why I had put the USA Purchased Flare gun out of sight and a bit out of Reach, and they were Shocked to Learn that for such an important Safety item, in the UK you had to get a Firearms Licence to get one, and I was heading for the BVI , and not sure how it would be considered (Maybe there not as Barking Mad as the UK? Still to find that out). We need a Coastguard Service as good as the USA one imho. If a youngster, I'd seriously onside going to the USA to join the USCG. 👍
New ships should go through a shakedown cruise to find all the things that are not working or don't work right and it should be done before delivery. Things get mounted wrong, installed wronged, missing fasteners and so many other things that all need to be checked out .
Half a mil is a ton of money for a naked boat. Seriously. For 950K, is this the best value on the market? Maybe? But it makes you want to go look at an Amel which has far fewer options! Tough decisions...
I've seen James and Phillipa on other channels plus urs. I'm waiting for Phillipa to start putting out videos like she said she wanted too. James and Phillipa are and would love to start following them. Ive already subscribed to there channel like 3 weeks ago but no video from them yet. I love u Ryan and sophie and have been following u guys for a long time. Thank you for ur awesome videos! Good luck to James and Phillipa! Chuck from Chatham, Massachusetts
Not really, it goes for all brand new boats. I heard of a couple buying a brand new catamaran and had it surveyed when it left the factory and 57 faults were found they had to fix before being accepted.
@@shanevillis4079 So do you think its better to buy a boat more than 10 years old? Fixed or not, you have a budget for repair items that could cost the price for the barebones boat new (approx $500,000).
@@tonynotstated695 I just replied to your comment mate, doesn't matter the brand, there will always be things to fix. I'm not interested in a confersation.
@@tonynotstated695 Depends: 10 years old can mean different things: from a reputable charter fleet it can mean that all the faults your surveyor identifies are addressed by their service department before you take possession. I'd probably aim for a 5 year old boat, since at 10 you are almost certain to be at the end of life for standing rigging, running rigging, sails, even the cushions: At 5 years you can make a plan to start replacing things so it's not such a shock to the wallet. Then again, if that is taken into consideration the 10 year old boat might be a bargain. Definitely get it surveyed either way, get a lawyer and know that the broker has neither the sellers nor your interests at heart, they only want to conclude the sale ASAP (which can work in the buyers favor so long as they know the game: brokers never work in the sellers best interest unless time is the only concern). But I'd never buy a brand new boat or a brand new car: I'll let someone else drive it off the lot and incur that immediate loss. My 2￠
@@shanevillis4079 Wasn't that La Vega? And that was even a PR stunt: of course everything was fixed before they left, but still, no boat is perfect out of the gate (just look at the Vasa!)
Good explanation. Things come for different tastes. One doesn’t need half of the things they added, but it’s their boat, I do think it looks neat. I’m more simplistic and practical. That said, one has to live on a boat in order to see if one would want to pay the costs for those things that aren’t essential needs. When I was looking at aircraft, I drew a line at the maximum total expenses (fixed and variable) for which I had budgeted, worked 15% below there to account for overruns. Same applies to boat purchases and anything else in life.
I have two questions not asked in the interview. 1) Would you have considered a smaller boat thinking the dockage, upkeep, fuel and insurance would be much less? and 2) Are you ever overwhelmed in handling this large boat with just two people? REVISION: The questions were a reaction to my initial thought: WOW that is a large boat for two people! I wasn't just thinking of cost, I'm assuming they can afford it. A two person crew means that either person will need to single hand it often.
Of course as a third party I can only answer question number two out of experience. As long as all systems work, like electric winches, hydraulic systems, autopilot and whatever you need for an intended operation it is no problem at all. But as soon as you loose power you are in deep trouble. And be assured that calamity will not happen in a quiet anchorage but off-shore in bad weather. I once had a new Hallber-Rassy 53 rafting up crewed by fairly old guys maybe in their mid seventies. The wind at sea was only around 18 kts but the guys were pretty exhausted because the hydraulic genoa furler had failed and they had to furl it up using the emergency winch handle.
Question 1 is simply too personal a question, it only applies to their financial situation and their definition of “too small”. Regardless of whether I could afford it or not, I'd never buy a boat that big just because I don't need it and the extra work that a boat that size requires (oh lord that teak deck, just thinking about it stresses me out!). That's really something you and your partner/family have to figure out: big enough you don't kill each other, small enough you don't kill yourselves with chores. As for question 2: They are young and they are fit: the IMOCA fleet single hand their boats around the world, and they're bigger than this. These two are just rolling around the Caribbean, so even in the event that something goes south, it's only couple days until they're safe in a harbor again. If they take it oceanic I doubt they'll have trouble finding additional crew.
Thank you for the amazing graciousness of sharing your experience as relatively inexperienced owners of a brand new yacht and model. It is incredibly important that potential again, relatively inexperienced prospective buyers of these incredibly complex and exceptional machines understand the TOTAL COSTS of acquisition and "growing pains" they and their vessels will undergo during the first 14 - 26 months of ownership. I couldn't help thinking while watching that viewing this video should BE REQUIRED of all purchasers of new model ocean-going vessels.
Sophie: Another great video. Key takeaway: Have the boat thoroughly tested before sailing away. There are good 3rd party companies next to the Hanse plant in Germany that do inspections and sea trials for the dealers before delivery to customers. I'm sure the same applies to Bavaria. The premise that its easier to resolve issues on a new boat when next to the plant. Greifswald, Germany has very good aftermarket companies to do the work that was not on the factory offering list, and they also provide the warranty repair work for Hanse. I got a lot from this video - thanks again. Dave.
In my case, Beneteau would not start assembling the boat until after the purchase contract was signed and 20% was deposited into escrow. When I told them that I wanted to make sure everything was acceptable before paying the full amount, I was told that I didn't want to violate the contract I had made with Beneteau. So not sure how that withholding some money would have worked out without having to hire lawyers.
Also buying new, before completion, there is a good chance that somethings that you were told would be included, won't be, and that things that you were told would be thrown in will cost extra. In my case there are about 10 items that each cost several 1000s of USD that I was told were included (and listed on the sales contract) or that marketing documents indicated that I should expect to have included that weren't. My advice is to very carefully examine every document you can and focus on what's missing rather that what's present in the marketing photos.
Included was the left-hand handrail, not the right-hand one, several YT videos and same model sold at same time show boats with both! Wheel covers were included on mine, but not on several others sold around the same time. Cushions were not included on mine, but were on several same models sold around same time (end of 2021/beginning of 2022), same for VHF handset. Not all port windows had curtains. I paid for the downwind package, but that just included the coach winches, not the actual sheets nor a reinforces bowsprit or the complete set of blocks needed to actually raise either an asymmetrical spinnaker or a code0. It's a bit like that puzzle to find what's different between 2 similar images. I feel like I've been taken at a carnival game!
20K for marinas per year sounds like they have never left marina ) On average a night in 50-100 EUR in any marina in Med.. you can make a yearly contract for 5-6K in one..
Also there are thousands of good anchor places along the mediterranean, I sail there for more than 2 months on summer and barely not more than 10 days in a marina..
This is a fabulous, important video. The lesson, which he uttered at the very beginning, is to buy a used boat. On a smaller but not minor scale, I had the same experience and feel the same way. If I do it again, used! Been on land for six years now but am wondering.....
No wonder Bavaria came out of bankruptcy right after these guys:-) Very well specified boat! We had similar problems with another manufacturer when we bought our new boat. After 2 years it became a good boat
Great video! Nice interview Sophie and very helpful info. I was not surprised on the option costs but was on the marina cost in the Med. Good to know. Would I ever buy a new boat? Probably. I'm current selling an older Avance 40 (most people will need to look that one up - they are rare) and looking to order a new Hallberg Rassy 44 in a few years to sail in the Med and then Caribbean similar to James and Phillipa. Yes, I looked at the option prices. It won't double the price since H-R boats come fairly well equiped but it's still another $250k or more to spec a comfortable boat.
Filippa and James, thank you for taking the time to make this candid video. I had no idea how the new boat world works. Do you guys have any regrets not buying a used catamaran? From my living room those fly bridge Lagoons look like the hot ticket. James, your 20 year old Rolex GMT Master II has gone up in value 5x. It would be nice if boats did the same.
I have gone through 11 new boat builds of various size ... they have all had minor problems but all have been resolved at no additional cost. One was rather costly for the builder and the repair took place in the Bahamas, the builder is in the northeastern US. They flew a tech down to make the repairs, all he needed do was adjust one screw ... that is the builder you want.
![How much does Boat Life REALLY Cost? CRUISING on a Bluewater SAILBOAT [2 years to 2020]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sbt3VpPWLVU/mqdefault.jpg)
It was very kind of them to share the financials. Thank you all....
@@barendgarvelink @z20000z Thanks guys!
I have to say, this was the most forthright explanation of costs I've seen. Really eye opening. Thanks!
Yeay! So glad you liked it ☺️
Absolutely! A real eye-opener!
WOW! This is an eye opener. A boat priced at USD500,000 actually costs USD924,000 unless you are ready to live a spartan life after investing half a million!
So Bavaria follows the "`BMW trick". Starting price is Toyota but when you equip it to Toyota level, you pay at least 50% more, though all due respect Bavaria is not the BMW of the boats... And actually here the mark-up is more than 50%...
Only if you go about it the way these people did. Anyone with sailing experience would have had a much better boat for a lot less money.
A very refreshing and honest accounting from someone that can obviously afford the boat they’ve chosen. Most people wouldn’t be so forthcoming about the financial side of owning such a large boat. Thank you James and Filipa for your candor and good humor, you seem like really nice folks.
Thanks Richard
I agree. I know nothing about boats but I was super impressed with the candidness and modesty from these folks in this video. Great people.
at that point it doesnt matter if the boat costs 1 million or 2 million. But it does sometimes help people who are after second hand or older yachts make a decision.
Very nice video!
I would love a boat with standing headroom and I bet they don't know what bucket and Chuck it means, salt water natures disinfectant My well equipped Elizabethan 23 cost me 4 thousand pounds 20 years ago sails like a 5 knot OCC 6 dream I'm not envious at all but good information in case I win the lottery. PS nice people.
I've seen James and Phillipa on other episodes and channels and they seem like very down to earth, good people.
Thanks James! ☺
Get a cockpit refrigerator for beer.
A water maker will keep me out of marinas.
I probably don’t need underwater lights.
Consider a used boat.
Hold back some final payment until all problems are fixed.
Stay close and sail often until all systems are well tested.
In the Mediterranean budget for lots of fuel and/or get a good light air sail.
In the Caribbean budget for Insurance and air conditioning.
Get a Dive Compressor. 😃
Mo Money Mo Problems.
Are you serious? No underwater lights! Next you will be doing away with the giant inflatable unicorns. What is the world coming to.
Thank you.
Also he could have halved the money spent on the tender/dinghy
Join the Royal Navy at 17 and obtain Mariner's skills and qualifications. Retire 10 years later, work for 10 years on luxury vessels cleaning and sailing for billionaires and their escorts, then with savings, buy a decent second hand yacht and follow Mr English Coach Chad's list of suggestions. Keep in mind that something like a Bavaria yacht costs the same as a Mortgage within the edges of the M25. Good luck. And oh yes, open a TH-cam channel and produce content. All the best. (This upload gets a thumbs up from me).
I’m building a cat in Asia, but I plan to live near the builder’s boatyard for a year after it’s built and sail it there to get all the bugs out while living nearby. I’ve owned enough boats to know how it works. My builder is totally open to that, and will make adjustments/repairs as necessary. But I will be retired at that point, so can spend the time there. I wouldn’t buy a boat expecting to sail away. Even used. Spend some time near good mechanics and yards until the kinks are worked out.
Sardinia Corsica fuel ! Yep … everything is expensive there.
I found eating ashore cripplingly expensive too and I’m not poor ! 😂
I agree with other comments here … James and Philipa have been very candid here ! (Extremely useful for those of us who are returning to sailing after a 20 year break !)
What a lovely couple… best wishes.
One of the best, if not the best, sailing videos I have seen. Informative, interesting, down to earth and honest, brilliant. A must see for any one wishing to do this lifestyle. The numbers might be scary but you can equate them to any size of yacht. Fantastic job.
Great episode - and thanks to the owners for that candid and sobering account. Lovely Yacht for sure... just think it should've come that way. Thanks!
Appreciate your friends sharing their costs. An eye opener, for sure.
Your welcome Leo!
Had a Beneteau 432.....as with All new boats we have issues. Lost 10 lbs during the commissioning. It was also 3 weeks late. Our boat show purchase had a few good options included to help with sales including most of the instrumentation we needed. Of course we added lots more. In the small print they are allowed to make cosmetic changes. Found out through our owners group they were removing some internal teak. I was able to have some installed but no all. Made me sign a nondisclosure agreement that I would no tell others of our agreement. Opps.....love the boat but they can be a pain to purchase. If you buy a used boat you may not get exactly what you wanted but if a survey is done properly at lease you know what your getting.
Wow!!! Thanks for sharing Wayne, how interesting! Sorry that the commissioning was so stressful, that did not sound fun :(
Excellant, very clear and concise and very honest. Good on you all.
Got to agree with James! Bavaria UK does not actually exist. Clipper Marine the UK distributor is as about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike. Bavaria GMBh dont answer their emails, push everything back to the UK distributor and if you take legal action they (Clipper) have no assets. The boats on their books are owned by the banks (check companies house) Our list of issues were quite long and after 2 years of battling Clipper, Getting Bavaria to do something and even complaining to the British Marine Industries Federation over their (Clippers) 17 breaches of the code of conduct we got us nowhere. We had to do all the retro work ourselves. (which was probably better) The bill just for just putting their work right was £12,783.00 and £6,740 in Legal fees to pursue them.
That's a bitter pill to swallow on the start of a sail away dream!! But it goes on... The extra we paid for the upgraded seating? 5 Years on? It all is having to be replaced. Cost £800.00. Copper coat we paid extra for from new? Has been now been replaced twice after Clipper made a mess of it. (wrong prep and primer) It's now going to be done again properly by us. Cost? £578.00 for materials and then the lift. Don't get us wrong; The boat is great, fast, strong, and just what we wanted. The process to get us where we wanted to be has left us disappointed, out of pocket and thinking much the same as James. Good video telling it how it is! Sail Safe Guys, Ant, Cid & the pooch crew.
T
Sorry to read about your experience with Clipper Marine. However, I felt compelled to write something as I have bought 2 new Bavaria's from them, first in 2017 and then upgraded in 2019. Both came with issues but I have to say the after sales service and warranty work was excellent and I couldn't fault them.
I think that everybody who bought a Bavaria see 57 should hire an attorney and file a class action and yeah because they went into chapter something, there’s not a lot accountability but you can have them cited for Maritime on safety for provisioning boats that should’ve never been commissioned as seaworthy and you can get them that way and go after the administration and the people in the higher ups because once you file for administration, it’s still the same people running the show and you should go after them
Sorry for the run-on sentences I’m using voice to text and I can’t stand typing with my fingers
SV what kind of problems did you encounter?
@@maxflight777 Mainly poor (non existent) after sales service. They had no dedicated Bavaria approved or trained service team. The quality of the remedial works was appalling! They never returned emails or letters. They just kept kicking the can down the road until the 12 month warranty period was up. Then walked away. We are still dealing with issues around the poor remedial work to the Copper coat to the keel which was poorly applied and subsequently even more poorly applied through their contractor. The Copper coat is good but the substrate has delaminated for a third time. Yet again we find ourselves having to foot the bill to have the work done properly. Yes we would buy another Bavaria. However, we would have a full survey, reject the boat on delivery until all the remedial works are completed under our surveyors, and our supervision. We would not accept the boat or pay a penny until the surveyor was happy, we were happy and we had completed a minimum 50 hours of sea trials. Solid, fast boat let down by $h1t after sales.
Beautiful. I really appreciate the facts and figures for a realistic idea. Thank you.
Sorry, that wasn't a very good deal. Bavaria is known for their low quality and depreciation after buying a new boat is brutal. If blue water ability is required, I'd go for a used boat from high-quality brands like Amel, Hallberg-Rassy or some other yard on Orust. Preferably one that has done ocean crossings already.
This is S/Y Rain Finger, admiring your methodology. We circumnavigated in the 1980s. This trip we bought a used boat, hired subcontractors that we supervised, fitting out this boat (Bristol 35.5 with electric drive). In the Covid era there is a lot of talent, looking for work. You guys did a great job on your boat, and learned there is no substitute for experience when going to sea.
What a great interview and very frank... loved it! Yes! Now where's my lottery ticket! Nice boat, and for the size, not too expensive considering the specification you now have. You seem to be enjoying it but the Caribbean insurance costs are prohibitive. Great video Ryan and Sophie. It would have been nice to check out the sailing abilities of the Bavaria. Any issues with haul out on a boat that size?
I’ll have James and Philippa comment directly :) I think that they can haul out in most places, they certainly did in curaçao!
Very nice interview with James and Philippa. Very informative and a nice vibe. Thanks to you all
Thanks Olav.
How Filippa and James can afford this boat is none of my business. Their reasons for buying this boat is none of my business. My interest is in appreciating their lifestyle, the home they live in, and the fact they can go, literally, anywhere the water is deep enough to float their boat, And, btw, I also deeply admire Sophie and Ryan for what they have done. Yeah! :¬) Webhead USA
Thats a bit of an aye opener. Thanks for your honesty.
That is probably the best yacht video i have watched, thanks
Wow, almost 1/2 the final price was for options. That is sticker shock.
Rich 500k for the boat. Half would be 250k the options were 425k. That`s a lot more then 1/2 my friend.
@@chasf1066 I said 1/2 of the final price for the boat was options, not 1/2 of boat's base price.
@@richhamel6810 Yeah my bad I saw that afterwards. But still DAMN.
@@chasf1066 I know, pretty crazy huh. . . that's a deep pocket, good for them. . .
It's a Bavaria what else did you espect. That's why they are so cheap compared to other brands.
fantastic, thanks. unfortunately just a pipe dream for me but lovely to see people doing this, all the best xxx from the UK
Thank you guys and thank your friends. It great the hear from someone be open about the costs.
...... very interesting .... two upgrades that come to mind that, to me the non boat owner yet, stuck out, actually three, larger engine (so often when looking at used one questions if the motor would be adequate in a dire situation) electronics having the latest is paramount and thirdly refrigeration and found it interesting that they had an additional Dometic chest freezer in one of the aft cabins. Being able to stock up when you find economical supplies, stellar. Also enables to stay out longer without having to find somewhere to provision and that brings 4 the watermaker .... oh yes something not mentioned, a sextant, so to be always learning, so not lost when that solar flare comes or that lighting strike .... another great Sophie and Ryan installment, thx to the both of you .. as always never stop dreaming, just dream bigger .. have fun be safe, save our oceans .....
Insurance will go up because of climate change ill effects. Why not create a insurance coop made for boaters, by boaters?
That's a beautiful boat. To be honest though, if I had that kind of money, the cost of ownership isn't high on my list of concerns.
agreed
Yep! And buying a boat that size, you do want the comfort that can come with it 🙂
Same here, I would put the money to work in the stock market and use the dividends to pay for the luxury boat rental, complete with a personal chef and captain.
Mmmm, 50' cats are available for about that money fully fitted. And they move in a light breeze, think of the fuel savings.
🤦♂️
Yeah, probably a 45 foot cat would be about the same living space. Maybe less money, but hard to say.
Which ones?
Yeah, but then you sail into marina and the costs get serious....
Wait... they PAID for teak decks?
🤣😂🤣😂
All seriousness, it's a beautiful boat.
Buy well equipped 2-3 year new boat. In that way most of the teething problems are resolved and the optional equipment is near new and should be in good working order.
I would only consider buying a brand new ⛵ if I won the lottery. Even then all the overhead expenses like docking, fuel & insurance would make me think twice. Either way I would invest in renewable energy (like a bimini top solar panel and/or wind turbine) to minimize or eliminate fuel consumption.
Great video. I have been lucky enough to buy 2 new boats in the last 6 years - I agree with the comment - stay close to the dealer for the first 12 months! They don’t work out of the box like a car.
The thing that surprised me most was that there is no safety kit included - no flares, life raft, beacon, heaving lines, jack stay etc. I appreciate that most people want to spec their own but a basic kit would have been good.
Yep, or dock lines or fenders! :)
Hi Chris, the total price does include all the safety gear we have on board such as off shore life raft, EPIRB, life jackets, flares etc... But you are right that they are not included in the bareboat price!
What a beautiful boat ! That is probably the widest interior I've seen in a sailboat. I am weighing my options for a new vs used catamaran or restoring a racing/cruising trimaran so I can relate to this video.
Hi Ryan & Sophie, 2 times a day I am driving on the boulevard from Bonaire. And always looking to that beautiful boat of yours on the mooring. Enjoy our beautiful island and the Caribbean .
Almost a million dollars for a yacht & no watermaker ?? That's insane
I mean, what if there is no water where you want to sail. Without a water maker you would be forced to stay in the sea. That's why I got a wind generator, just in case I want to sail and there is no wind.
The reason why most new boat owners choose to forego watermakers as an option when ordering their boat is because of how outrageously priced they are (upwards of 10-15k) James built his own watermaker before sailing over to the Caribbean which you can see at 10:36 :)
@@RyanSophieSailing yeah I saw but a million bucks and the company didn't throw one in as standing equipment that's crazy
@@RyanSophieSailing I just always carry a few 50lb bags of dehydrated water. It really saves on... never mind. 🤣
A big thank you for the candid information from your friends. Just to complete information on the other side of possibilities, I have bought a new boat from Bénéteau, an Oceanis 31 in 2018: basic cost was 78'000 Euros , options kept to a minimum but including transport was 19'000 Euros and the local preparation cost was 6000.- Total just over 100'000 eur or some 125'000 US$. I then added some improvements as a gennaker, solar pannel and some more instruments for some 5000 euros. A 31 footer is probably the minimum size to sail away, but I am not in this case, I sail on a lake in in the middle of Europe and my boat is 15 minutes away from my home. I paid 30% in advance, the big chunk before delivery and the last preparation cost to the dealer after a local check up sail. Very few hicups as the model is not a new one, it was in fact replaced two years later. All was basically taken care of by the dealer under warranty.
I follow you Sophie and Ryan because of the brand of the boat and the technical advice you bring to the table, well... and also because of Sophie's smile....
That was great. It's one thing to show TH-cam your boat, it's so much more to be candid about all the costs and mistakes. Thank you!
In my humble opinion, I would rather go for an Euphoria 54... At least for the built quality.
Sorry, but Phillipa is winning EVERY T-shirt and Daisy Duke denim shorts contest between now and 2065
What James is saying about "putting money in escrow" is utter nonsense, no offense. It's not some private garage you're dealing with. The company wants prepayment of 20% - you pay or you don't get a contract. They want the balance 3 weeks before delivery - YOU PAY or you start accumulating fines. You cannot dictate your conditions to a corporation. And no "solicitor" will help you if the builder goes into administration or bancruptsy. You will stand in a long line behind major creditors before they even look at you. What solicitor would do is make you feel safe right until the moment you lose all money and THEN you find out what HIS fees really are.
Actually, most of what James is saying is nonsense. Again, no offense.
Yes, options increase the final price, big surprise! You ever bought a car? He says it like they're trying to scam him, but they aren't. At boat shows you ALWAYS see the configuration sheets near every boat that give the base price of the boat and "this boat" price listing all the options. There are videos here on youtube verifying that!
"A new boat has MORE problems than a used one"? Like what? I seriously suspect that what he meant was that installing extra equipment requires permission from the manufacturer or you lose your warranty. Come on, man!
They "specified air-conditioning"? I cannot believe a 57-ft boat came without AC as standard. It simply does not happen. Even 30-footers these days come with CruiseAir.
And no, you can't "customize and spec the boat exactly how you want". Maybe if you go bespoke and spend 2-3 million euros on a similarly sized Oyster or Contest or Swan. But NOT with Bavaria. You get to choose layout modules (usually 2-3 options max), you pick upholstery materials from a catalogue, a VERY short list of optional equipment (usually microwave and washer) and that's it. It's a mass-produced factory boat, that's why it's so cheap.
Takeaway: even things you say in a sexy deep confident baritone can be utter nonsense. Especially when said in front of two women who don't have a clue. 🙂
Having purchased three new boats, over the last 20 years, our current being 51 foot and commissioned in 2019 I would whole heartedly agree with James’s comments, but the need to use expensive marinas in the Mediterranean, I would disagree. We have a water maker generator and solar panels and rarely use marines throughout the summer. Our annual berthing fees including winter lift and hard stand come to around 7000 euros, way below what James says he paid. For six months Mediterranean cruising our fuel bill is about 600 euros, we have the same 110hp motor.
Pretty surprising that a new boat comes with so many quality issues. I know that it is not specific to Bavaria. I've heard the same thing about Dufour, Benetteau etc. Why could they not bring them to some quality level like the car manufacturers achieved, I wonder...
Boats have much more systems and electronics than a car, also they are low volume. Just look at how many warranty visits low volume cars like ferrari/mclaren need.
I'm in the Market for a used boat.
Your Bavaria is fabulous, I'll be looking into Bavaria's yachts.
Thank you for a great video
Thanks for the candid video. I choked on my glass of wine when you got to the insurance costs. Great video.
Insurance has to be the most annoying costs, that you never need till you don't have it. But any place that has had huge write off costs associated with weather you see huge premiums.
Very insightful video guys!
Thank you for making this video and to James and Philips for sharing their costs, great insight into the true costs of new boat ownership. I knew parts of the Med are very pricey but you really put some detail to that. Bavaria really ought to include the cockpit fridge as standard. Cheers
you are very welcome!
Since 1977 I have purchased three new boats. The more I spent, the worse they were as things were not working. The factory made many foolish mistakes. The people building your boat are non-sailors and don't have any experience on a ship at sea. I have been a full-time liveaboard, 44 years now and just have everything right. Too bad my age and health have caused me to limit my time at sea.
Columbia 9.6, C&C Landfall 35, Sage 43.
All were new. The first and last were semi-custom built for me, causing the most problems. The C&C was sitting at the factory for months waiting for a buyer. It had minor issues.
I wonder just how much sailing experience they had before embarking on such a huge journey. Did they learn "on the job"? I would love to learn to sail (which is why I enjoy these videos so much)!
Nice to have ... need to have ... want to have .. 3 completely different positions .. even with more than enough funds at my disposal and a bigger yacht than this I wouldn't have teak decking or 3 big fancy chart plotters to name but a couple of items. After several boats new my rule of thumb is bareboat plus 30% and it gets less each time.
Big thanks to James and Philipa for their very candid informational video! Sharing Aequis with all of us, your buying process, the good , bad and cautions that you’ve learned throughout the past two years. Love Aequis, she looks absolutely beautiful!! Thanks so much for sharing and Sophie, great job as always!!
You're very welcome!
Guys, thanks, this is one of the best videos out there. The honest experience, the value of lessons you learned and sharing with the rest of us for free cannot be appreciated enough. I especially like the part about all the nav gear, radar, lights... one would call it a luxury features, but in fact these are all safety features and from my point of view essentials, IF(!) someone plan to sail that much, crossing the oceans, spending months and months on the boat. I always thought these could be expensive, but that it will double the cost of the boat is an eye-opener.
I spent many years sailing around Italy and France, and we rarely ever stayed in marina's, plenty of places to live on the anchor. Croatia has plenty of place to anchor, Greece is really pretty much the sole hold out here, they are picky about where you anchor. Those are some pretty crazy prices that were posted in this video, I never came close to those numbers.
Seems like quality control is still a significant problem with boat manufacturers. They want stupid amounts of money, but then the boat is typically late on delivery and half the systems don't work properly. And there's zero accountability, unless you hold back a significant portion of money, but then they won't let you have the boat either. Smh.
Thanks to these guys for being frank and transparent about the costs. Rarely fo you get this kind of info.
the guy loves apples products so much he put in the whole 27 inch imac inside lol
These owners were right on point I bought a Jeanneau 519 new and found the process to be painful. I reluctantly upgraded to my currently Jeanneau 58 also new. While we love our 58 it too was painful working through all the items not just right. I like your guests have owned ours for going four seasons and have finally worked through all the corrective items but now I’m beginning into the normal maintenance items coming up . I too liked that I bought new but I think if you know what your doing you can find a well fitted resale boat too. I will say my Jeanneau came with many more of those items standard vs optional. 6 power winches, 4 heads, 5 ac units and many other items. So when you buy new you must throw a wide net.
Congrats on your boat and thanks for your insight. Did your warranty cover a lot of the issues? That feels like one benefit of buying new vs used. Thanks in advance!
Why would they order this million dollar boat with the TV package and NOT a watermaker? Lol
Because you don't usually get to the point of being able to buy a million dollar yacht without making smart financial decisions ;) Watermakers as option upon commissioning are extremely expensive, while building your own only costs around a thousand dollars. Which James ended up doing ;)
@@RyanSophieSailing Hey, I'm just a dumbass musician. What do I know?
One of the best and most direct cost to real ownership videos I have ever seen. Helped me and my family a lot. I hope you have continued success. Thanks!
Very nice couple and extremely nice of them to be so forthcoming about their experience and costs. Many TH-cam channels are exposing many facets of production boat mfg's shortfalls. A list of (or at least examples of) what a was not correct would be somewhat useful. I have now lived on my "new to me" 1991 Pacific Seacraft 37' for 1 1/2 years and have sailed it a couple thousand miles. Like many folks my departure timeline for cruising was delayed due COVID, with the upside being that am still realizing what I want to upgrade while still based out of my home port. Great video.
Buying a new sailboat is exactly like buying a new Porsche!! The price you start with vs the price you end up paying for after all the options makes the original price seem cheap......which is not😂😂
The new landrover defender seems to have the same scheme.
Thank you! very informative. first time I see such a detailed breakdown of the real costs of buying a Yacht. 5*
Thanks for the openness and transparency of this video. Maybe worth elaborating on the lifestyle choices leading to the costs in the Med. $20,000 for marina costs is expensive- did you move around a lot and therefore pay higher daily rates or have a fixed space in a nice marina ? And $11000 for fuel works out roughly at 11 500l tanks at $2 per liter. Even at 10l/hour fairly high rpm motoring, that’s well over 500 hours engine use. Absolutely no judgement here but moving on frequently or on a schedule can increase the cost compared to seeing where the wind takes you.
Thanks for the transparency about ordering the Bavaria. Certainly interesting and informative.
I'd be lucky if I could afford the dingy.
New or old boat alike, sail boats require constant maintenance! You are fighting the effects of mother nature 24/7! Salt water or fresh water, sun, wind and all weather, etc. My favorite European boat is the Amel Super Maramu. Check out SV Delos. They bought the boat fairly new and have been sailing around the world for 10+ years. They document a lot of their maintenance. Even on my Catalina 27, I spent as much time on maintenance as I did sailing. I wouldn't change it for anything. While I always enjoy touring the new sailboats at the local boat show, I don't think I'd consider buying a brand new boat. I am particularly not fond of the wheels on new boats, the Amel though is perfect and as I prefer it to be placed and sized, and that there is only 1! Fair winds and following seas!
You should change your TH-cam name to sailing swingers
Sounds like a bunch of unnecessary items. imho.
Outstanding explanation but for this money used amel would be my option but it’s a great sailing vessel
You should’ve bought an Amel ! Amel has a very short list of options because their boats come loaded will all the good stuff from the get go.
the Amel will still be twice as expensive and then some... the closest comparable new Amel starts at $1.93M USD pre-tax
@@zacharydouglas7794 1,93 Millions $? my goodness :- S
It is so non-productive to tell somebody what they should have done. Anyway there are a number of reasons why they bought this particular boat. Also an Amel is much more for a seasoned sailor.
Please tells us how a new boat can be more trouble than a used one.
I love the transparency of these guys. I’ve heard the hidden cost and breakdown costs of new boats before. It seems like the way to go is buy a strong 20 year old hull and replace everything, including the engine… then stay local and try to break stuff for a while.
That would seem to be the clever alternative, but it has a lot to do with the grass always being greener on the other side of the fence. If you like old heavy hulls you might save a large amount getting a good price. The second part of your plan is a complete bust! Everything you refit to an old boat costs far more, has more quality problems, and loses more than half its resale value the second you install it! Find some fool that did everything you want but now needs to sell...
This couple did a fine job putting together a fine boat. If you think $1M is not a good deal, talk to a guy that paid that much or more for a divorce...
@@skyak4493 in the early 1990s manufacturers learned to lay fiberglass in temperature controlled environments. Strength and longevity is based on hull thickness. The lightweight sandwiched hulls some manufacturers today are making haven’t been tested through time and do not survive impacts. Sailboats have ballasted keels… lightweight doesn’t mean much. Also, when you buy a new boat it does not come with the things you would expect. Most of it is aftermarket installed by a local technician during the commissioning process. People have an idea in their heads that a new boat is better and more reliable… not true. Save $500,000 get a used hull and replace everything… engine, instruments, heater, air conditioner, batteries, solar, windless, mast, sails, everything…. A hull is just a design and a platform to install everything you need.
@@esquire9445 I honestly have always been more likely to buy used, but refits to liveaboards are costly. Thanks
Bavaria yachts loose a ton of money.There is a 56. 2015 for sale for £200.000 the broker fee has to come of that,and any problems found on the survey.and the mooring cost waiting to sell it.Say you bought that and spent 100,000 .You may have a boat thats 6 years old.but you would have saved yourself.£500.000.I also like the layout on the 56 to the 57.
Thanks to all on this video, seriously a full understanding of the cost and the resources needed from someone that can afford this life style. The one thing I have noticed on all sailing channels, is the endless maintenance issues. Clearly, James and Philipa have significant wealth to pull this off without much concern.
8:50 “Philippa hadn’t done much sailing before “ … I see a hard suitcase on the bed ! 😂
Actually the large Hard Aircraft Hold type Wheeled Suitcases are Really useful on a boat. .pad them inside (towels etc) and they're really good for keeping delicate electronics spares in, for example, if you have the room. Plus of course Yiu can get Waterproof ones that Float, abd they can be used as Wheeked Shopping Bags to easily transport purchases when provisioning, and if you miss the Dinghy, they can float or be towed back slowly to the boat ? On my last boat, one was brilliant for organising stuff in the V Berth Forward Storage. A Hard Cabin Flight Bag can be a great organiser for under Berth Storage too. Most of the stuff the US Coastguard Wanted to see, when they asked me to invite them aboard (great people by the way, they really impressed me) was in one Convenisntly under the Pilot Berth next to the Companionway. They did ask me why I had put the USA Purchased Flare gun out of sight and a bit out of Reach, and they were Shocked to Learn that for such an important Safety item, in the UK you had to get a Firearms Licence to get one, and I was heading for the BVI , and not sure how it would be considered (Maybe there not as Barking Mad as the UK? Still to find that out). We need a Coastguard Service as good as the USA one imho. If a youngster, I'd seriously onside going to the USA to join the USCG. 👍
New ships should go through a shakedown cruise to find all the things that are not working or don't work right and it should be done before delivery. Things get mounted wrong, installed wronged, missing fasteners and so many other things that all need to be checked out .
What a fabulous couple ! Compelling content.
Half a mil is a ton of money for a naked boat. Seriously. For 950K, is this the best value on the market? Maybe? But it makes you want to go look at an Amel which has far fewer options! Tough decisions...
I've seen James and Phillipa on other channels plus urs. I'm waiting for Phillipa to start putting out videos like she said she wanted too. James and Phillipa are and would love to start following them. Ive already subscribed to there channel like 3 weeks ago but no video from them yet. I love u Ryan and sophie and have been following u guys for a long time. Thank you for ur awesome videos! Good luck to James and Phillipa! Chuck from Chatham, Massachusetts
Thanks for this, very interesting. Too many channels feel like they aren't handling these questions of hidden costs and poor quality with new boats.
Where does she get her botox injections when their away at sea?
I dream about a Garcia Exploration 45 or 52... doesn't look to be in my future though.
Wow - so many reasons to never buy Bavaria.
Not really, it goes for all brand new boats. I heard of a couple buying a brand new catamaran and had it surveyed when it left the factory and 57 faults were found they had to fix before being accepted.
@@shanevillis4079 So do you think its better to buy a boat more than 10 years old? Fixed or not, you have a budget for repair items that could cost the price for the barebones boat new (approx $500,000).
@@tonynotstated695 I just replied to your comment mate, doesn't matter the brand, there will always be things to fix. I'm not interested in a confersation.
@@tonynotstated695 Depends: 10 years old can mean different things: from a reputable charter fleet it can mean that all the faults your surveyor identifies are addressed by their service department before you take possession. I'd probably aim for a 5 year old boat, since at 10 you are almost certain to be at the end of life for standing rigging, running rigging, sails, even the cushions: At 5 years you can make a plan to start replacing things so it's not such a shock to the wallet. Then again, if that is taken into consideration the 10 year old boat might be a bargain. Definitely get it surveyed either way, get a lawyer and know that the broker has neither the sellers nor your interests at heart, they only want to conclude the sale ASAP (which can work in the buyers favor so long as they know the game: brokers never work in the sellers best interest unless time is the only concern). But I'd never buy a brand new boat or a brand new car: I'll let someone else drive it off the lot and incur that immediate loss.
My 2￠
@@shanevillis4079 Wasn't that La Vega? And that was even a PR stunt: of course everything was fixed before they left, but still, no boat is perfect out of the gate (just look at the Vasa!)
Good explanation.
Things come for different tastes. One doesn’t need half of the things they added, but it’s their boat, I do think it looks neat. I’m more simplistic and practical. That said, one has to live on a boat in order to see if one would want to pay the costs for those things that aren’t essential needs.
When I was looking at aircraft, I drew a line at the maximum total expenses (fixed and variable) for which I had budgeted, worked 15% below there to account for overruns.
Same applies to boat purchases and anything else in life.
I have two questions not asked in the interview. 1) Would you have considered a smaller boat thinking the dockage, upkeep, fuel and insurance would be much less? and 2) Are you ever overwhelmed in handling this large boat with just two people?
REVISION: The questions were a reaction to my initial thought: WOW that is a large boat for two people! I wasn't just thinking of cost, I'm assuming they can afford it. A two person crew means that either person will need to single hand it often.
Of course as a third party I can only answer question number two out of experience. As long as all systems work, like electric winches, hydraulic systems, autopilot and whatever you need for an intended operation it is no problem at all. But as soon as you loose power you are in deep trouble. And be assured that calamity will not happen in a quiet anchorage but off-shore in bad weather. I once had a new Hallber-Rassy 53 rafting up crewed by fairly old guys maybe in their mid seventies. The wind at sea was only around 18 kts but the guys were pretty exhausted because the hydraulic genoa furler had failed and they had to furl it up using the emergency winch handle.
Question 1 is simply too personal a question, it only applies to their financial situation and their definition of “too small”. Regardless of whether I could afford it or not, I'd never buy a boat that big just because I don't need it and the extra work that a boat that size requires (oh lord that teak deck, just thinking about it stresses me out!). That's really something you and your partner/family have to figure out: big enough you don't kill each other, small enough you don't kill yourselves with chores.
As for question 2: They are young and they are fit: the IMOCA fleet single hand their boats around the world, and they're bigger than this. These two are just rolling around the Caribbean, so even in the event that something goes south, it's only couple days until they're safe in a harbor again. If they take it oceanic I doubt they'll have trouble finding additional crew.
Thank you for the amazing graciousness of sharing your experience as relatively inexperienced owners of a brand new yacht and model. It is incredibly important that potential again, relatively inexperienced prospective buyers of these incredibly complex and exceptional machines understand the TOTAL COSTS of acquisition and "growing pains" they and their vessels will undergo during the first 14 - 26 months of ownership.
I couldn't help thinking while watching that viewing this video should BE REQUIRED of all purchasers of new model ocean-going vessels.
Sophie: Another great video. Key takeaway: Have the boat thoroughly tested before sailing away. There are good 3rd party companies next to the Hanse plant in Germany that do inspections and sea trials for the dealers before delivery to customers. I'm sure the same applies to Bavaria. The premise that its easier to resolve issues on a new boat when next to the plant. Greifswald, Germany has very good aftermarket companies to do the work that was not on the factory offering list, and they also provide the warranty repair work for Hanse. I got a lot from this video - thanks again. Dave.
In my case, Beneteau would not start assembling the boat until after the purchase contract was signed and 20% was deposited into escrow. When I told them that I wanted to make sure everything was acceptable before paying the full amount, I was told that I didn't want to violate the contract I had made with Beneteau. So not sure how that withholding some money would have worked out without having to hire lawyers.
Also buying new, before completion, there is a good chance that somethings that you were told would be included, won't be, and that things that you were told would be thrown in will cost extra. In my case there are about 10 items that each cost several 1000s of USD that I was told were included (and listed on the sales contract) or that marketing documents indicated that I should expect to have included that weren't. My advice is to very carefully examine every document you can and focus on what's missing rather that what's present in the marketing photos.
Included was the left-hand handrail, not the right-hand one, several YT videos and same model sold at same time show boats with both! Wheel covers were included on mine, but not on several others sold around the same time. Cushions were not included on mine, but were on several same models sold around same time (end of 2021/beginning of 2022), same for VHF handset. Not all port windows had curtains. I paid for the downwind package, but that just included the coach winches, not the actual sheets nor a reinforces bowsprit or the complete set of blocks needed to actually raise either an asymmetrical spinnaker or a code0. It's a bit like that puzzle to find what's different between 2 similar images. I feel like I've been taken at a carnival game!
20K for marinas per year sounds like they have never left marina ) On average a night in 50-100 EUR in any marina in Med.. you can make a yearly contract for 5-6K in one..
Also there are thousands of good anchor places along the mediterranean, I sail there for more than 2 months on summer and barely not more than 10 days in a marina..
@@pepegas300 yeah! that’s what I’m saying )
Excellent interview . I found the information very useful and extremely interesting . many thanks
Philipa is a master of lens-eye-contact. I wonder if she has a background in TV or something...
Philippa is fantastic at so many things ☺️ In a coming video, we service Polar Seal’s engine together! Can’t wait for that one 😃
@@RyanSophieSailing / Oh , good / because in this video you did promise us " More shenanigans to come " lol ;-) ;-)
This is a fabulous, important video. The lesson, which he uttered at the very beginning, is to buy a used boat. On a smaller but not minor scale, I had the same experience and feel the same way. If I do it again, used! Been on land for six years now but am wondering.....
No wonder Bavaria came out of bankruptcy right after these guys:-)
Very well specified boat! We had similar problems with another manufacturer when we bought our new boat. After 2 years it became a good boat
Great video! Nice interview Sophie and very helpful info. I was not surprised on the option costs but was on the marina cost in the Med. Good to know. Would I ever buy a new boat? Probably. I'm current selling an older Avance 40 (most people will need to look that one up - they are rare) and looking to order a new Hallberg Rassy 44 in a few years to sail in the Med and then Caribbean similar to James and Phillipa. Yes, I looked at the option prices. It won't double the price since H-R boats come fairly well equiped but it's still another $250k or more to spec a comfortable boat.
Filippa and James, thank you for taking the time to make this candid video. I had no idea how the new boat world works. Do you guys have any regrets not buying a used catamaran? From my living room those fly bridge Lagoons look like the hot ticket. James, your 20 year old Rolex GMT Master II has gone up in value 5x. It would be nice if boats did the same.
I just wonder if those options would be much cheaper if they have used another contractor to install them.
excellent post . I am seriously considering getting a boat for the next chapter of my life and this helps a lot.
I have gone through 11 new boat builds of various size ... they have all had minor problems but all have been resolved at no additional cost. One was rather costly for the builder and the repair took place in the Bahamas, the builder is in the northeastern US. They flew a tech down to make the repairs, all he needed do was adjust one screw ... that is the builder you want.
That’s my thought…if you. It new I assume the kinks are covered by warranty. So there’s something to be said for predictability?
But I guess the more videos you look the more you will see that this living style is far from paradise
I’ve been considering a new sailboat live aboard... this was very informative thank you