I experienced a very scary problem with warped rotors yesterday. The rotors were so warped that they would spread the caliper pistons so far apart that the brake lever would pull all the way back to the bar. With the bike on the front stand, I could pump the brake and it would feel good and firm but after only 2 full rotations of the wheel the lever would pull all the way back to the bar. If I had been riding, there would have been no way to get any braking power from the front lever. I swapped rotors (by robbing my other bike with identical wheel) and problem solved. I can spin the wheel all day and the travel distance of the brake lever from zero to full power does not vary at all anymore. This video is a wealth of information and has helped me further understand all the data points to consider with these types of issues. Dave, you are a great asset to the motorcycle community! Time to go check the straightness of my wheel.
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. That's exactly what occurred to me as I was editing yesterday, "Duh" I said to myself. I just went out and mic'd them. That lip area on all of them ranges from 5.49 to 5.55 mm except one that was down to 5.36 lip, but I almost couldn't detect the lip at all.
All wheels and disks will have some tolerance variation. Even with the wheels that spins the freest, they are still binding too much. I suspect that you have more of an issue with the caliper and it's ability to pull back after releasing the brake lever.
You are fantastic and I also appreciate the measurements on millimetres. Carry on we are watching while we are holding our breath. Also fluent English pronunciation which indicates you must be British and helps me understand better.
I am so grateful for you Dave, you learn all of us so much... I am a little disappointed, because if you want to have your bike in really good shape, there is no motorcycle service which care so mutch as they should in majority cases. Only person who can take care about our bikes are we, nobody else and you give us a chance to do it properly. Jokes aside, you probably saved some lifes
Thank you. True that we can take much better care of our own motorcycles if we do all the simple care tasks so that if something major is needed, then we can learn or we trust a shop.
Great point brother! No one cares about your bike like you because it's your balls on the line. It's why nearly all motorcyclists i come across can turn a wrench.
I had a low speed, post u-turn in the rain, high side and suspected my wheel/front brake rotors could have experienced some sort of twisting. Now I know exactly all to look for before running out to buy buy buy parts 😁 Thanks DMT
get your wheels off, stick the axle through and put them on leveled lifts spin the wheel and stop it at the most inward position of the thing you want to measure runout of now stack books or boxes and put a pencil with the sharp point against the *farthest* point you can spot and spin the wheel, making sure the pencil doesnt roll but gets pushed backwards measure the distance and check against specification best way for the poor man to know, if hes living dangerously or not
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. The Q3+ wheel is the only one I could feel pulsing slightly under braking. The harder I braked the less it pulsed. But with good calipers and master cylinder it might have been crazy bad.
@@catalystreactionsbw That and you might notice you need to add more throttle compared to the others also, or just rolling it about taking more effort before you feel the pulsing on some cases.
Best upgrade for the 04-05 GSX-R 600/750 is to buy 2005 R1 calipers and machine them down (I think it's 7mm). Pair that with a Brembo master and good lines and the braking is incredible. This, along with EBC X-series rotors is what I run on my track dedicated k5 600.
So what's the fix then? Repair wheels and face up (skim) disc mounting faces? Obviously making sure the discs aren't warped beyond factory specs. DTI and mag stand can be bought relatively cheaply. That way you can properly measure run out.
well as far as i remember you grinded the disc mechanically... hard to get it plane (flat and even) that way... and regarding to that mayb hard to adjust ones brakes later too. mayb replace it with some lighter, better, and cheaper too... it's been a while since '05? :)
I chose the brake hone as is was easy to use and not very abrasive compared to a sand blaster or 200 grit sandpaper. It is really hard to get the rotors flat on sanding as we have no machine available to "turn" rotors as there are for cars. Maybe that is a million dollar idea?
@@catalystreactionsbw regarding the costs of a set of oem ones that maybe is.. esp for that elderly gals :D the procedure did look a bit... brutal and working brakes r vital esp on a racer. sry sir, didn't want to insult or lecture you, english is not my native language :)
@@justRORIRARU You did not insult me - you shared very clear thoughts that many others are not willing to type and your questions lead to more conversation for others to decide how they want to do it. I appreciate your contribution!
Biggest load of crap I've heard on wheels and rotors. This guy has no idea what he's doing But at least he bullshits with confidence How can he not have access to a dial gauge?
Why would my front end bounce at real low speed with brake pressure??? I can brake at 90mph and it's perfect. But as soon as I get down under 15mph or so it starts bouncing.
If we find one we will add it to the list. I can help you via Remote Tuning if you have the tools and time. If you are interested in this, please email me dave@davemosstuning.com
I was looking at creating a mount for vernier calipers set perfectly horizontal to start with a wide gap, then as they close, see how much difference there is across the entire rotor surface as the wheel locates. Dial indicator for those who know what that is gives more accurate data and is a lot more time consuming, BUT, you get results in much greater detail.
My k4 gsxr 600 has the front disc buttons a bit loose, the discs /buttons are making a bit noise when driving slowly on "stone road". When i grab the disc with my hand and pull back and forward into the direction it spin, i notice that moves about 3 mm! Is this acceptable? If not, they are fixed or replaced? Thanks
@@Apollo-Computers thanks for the feedback. A complete new rotors/disc seams bit expensive and my discs seems good. I'll consider the option to change the "buttons" Thanks
I know this series is just good as an excuse to do a great informational on how to approach an old motorcycle but i am sure such a bike is MAYBE good for parting and not certainly viable for a restoration unless one wants to waste money. Still, i love the approach you take on figuring out issues and how to fix them. Thank you.
My 2005 Gsx-R 750 is still killing it and rolling hard with 1000's regularly. Regular maintenance and a solid bike can easily outperform a much newer high end bike.... + It's really all in the rider
@@silversoozookee2839 That is not what i said. Clearly this is a bike that has been sitting untouched for years and it shows. Some people will ride stolen recovered bikes like nothing happened. I prefer being safe, you know. Sure an old bike can be good providing it has not been abandoned. This video reinforces the point that Dave made when they started the series. Some people said that it was "shocking" they paid such a low price for it. Well...
cashflow - if you have just limited amount of money, you can't afford best solution straight away. In addition - this is one of four disks - bought god knows where. So it doesn't relate to bike itself.
Known problem, just trow some R6 callipers and a master cilinder on this model Gixxer and forget the oem brakes... Even after refurbishing the stock Tokico callipers. You can thank me later...
Just replaced the master cilinder on my K8 with a ZX-10R one.. and the difference was huge.. next step is the replacing the calipers with something else
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Yes! Saw that a few weeks ago at the track but stupidly didn't take any pics or vids of it. Do you have any pics? I'd like some for Ep 2 about the calipers. email timefuzer@yahoo.com thx!
While you do what? Buy a t-shirt from the biggest chain of t-shirt sellers in the history of motorsports? Harley has done nothing for decades in terms of advancing any of their own products. The had Porsche design an engine for them a few years back. Oddly the only motor that came stock on a Harley worth a shit. Bike still sucked shit though..
That's not what this series is about brother! This is for the do-anything-i-can-myself type of rider who can't swing the cost of a new set of rotors or a wheel. Dave has quite a few bikes and is like a savant when it comes to suspension on high performance bikes, with many years at the track. I do agree with you, as I have had many a buddy who wasted our time on rides doing janky fixes to stay on the ride... His techniques solved my suspension woes on my ktm 1290r superduke.
@@kilobravo2373 some things I do not play with and that is one of them when metel bend it stretches and never go back in place again no safe dud. I will look it but will not be the same again.
I experienced a very scary problem with warped rotors yesterday. The rotors were so warped that they would spread the caliper pistons so far apart that the brake lever would pull all the way back to the bar. With the bike on the front stand, I could pump the brake and it would feel good and firm but after only 2 full rotations of the wheel the lever would pull all the way back to the bar. If I had been riding, there would have been no way to get any braking power from the front lever.
I swapped rotors (by robbing my other bike with identical wheel) and problem solved. I can spin the wheel all day and the travel distance of the brake lever from zero to full power does not vary at all anymore. This video is a wealth of information and has helped me further understand all the data points to consider with these types of issues. Dave, you are a great asset to the motorcycle community! Time to go check the straightness of my wheel.
yesss I really appreciate the metric units :) seems like a rocket science.
For the original thickness of the disc it should be pretty close if you mic up the lip on the outer edge.
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. That's exactly what occurred to me as I was editing yesterday, "Duh" I said to myself. I just went out and mic'd them. That lip area on all of them ranges from 5.49 to 5.55 mm except one that was down to 5.36 lip, but I almost couldn't detect the lip at all.
The specs should be in the manufacturer's mechanic's repair manual.
Had the same problem on my k4 gsxr a couple years ago. Ultimately I ended up replacing the wheel/rotors/and rebuilt brake calipers. Works good now lol
All wheels and disks will have some tolerance variation. Even with the wheels that spins the freest, they are still binding too much. I suspect that you have more of an issue with the caliper and it's ability to pull back after releasing the brake lever.
You are fantastic and I also appreciate the measurements on millimetres. Carry on we are watching while we are holding our breath. Also fluent English pronunciation which indicates you must be British and helps me understand better.
I am so grateful for you Dave, you learn all of us so much... I am a little disappointed, because if you want to have your bike in really good shape, there is no motorcycle service which care so mutch as they should in majority cases. Only person who can take care about our bikes are we, nobody else and you give us a chance to do it properly. Jokes aside, you probably saved some lifes
Thank you. True that we can take much better care of our own motorcycles if we do all the simple care tasks so that if something major is needed, then we can learn or we trust a shop.
This is so true.
It is tough to find good help, period.
Great point brother! No one cares about your bike like you because it's your balls on the line. It's why nearly all motorcyclists i come across can turn a wrench.
I had a low speed, post u-turn in the rain, high side and suspected my wheel/front brake rotors could have experienced some sort of twisting.
Now I know exactly all to look for before running out to buy buy buy parts 😁 Thanks DMT
get your wheels off, stick the axle through and put them on leveled lifts
spin the wheel and stop it at the most inward position of the thing you want to measure runout of
now stack books or boxes and put a pencil with the sharp point against the *farthest* point you can spot and spin the wheel, making sure the pencil doesnt roll but gets pushed backwards
measure the distance and check against specification
best way for the poor man to know, if hes living dangerously or not
You tube can bring out some amazing people
Love from Scotland 🏴
Yay!!! Not a preview at long last! Disc thickness and min thickness plus max run out is in the manual .
Great content. I'm always learning something on your channel.
Massive run out / wheel and rotors combo .
Yep, not great at all... Have I ridden worse sure but wouldn't recommend it.
You would need to have the tire off to get true vertical run out of the wheel......
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. The Q3+ wheel is the only one I could feel pulsing slightly under braking. The harder I braked the less it pulsed. But with good calipers and master cylinder it might have been crazy bad.
@@catalystreactionsbw That and you might notice you need to add more throttle compared to the others also, or just rolling it about taking more effort before you feel the pulsing on some cases.
Best upgrade for the 04-05 GSX-R 600/750 is to buy 2005 R1 calipers and machine them down (I think it's 7mm). Pair that with a Brembo master and good lines and the braking is incredible. This, along with EBC X-series rotors is what I run on my track dedicated k5 600.
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Excellent. Can you email me a few pics of your setup so I can include it in the next video? timefuzer@yahoo.com
I love these tech talk type videos
"All you torque wrenchers out there apoplectic yet?" Not when you do it. Lol. Wouldn't trust myself though
So what's the fix then? Repair wheels and face up (skim) disc mounting faces? Obviously making sure the discs aren't warped beyond factory specs.
DTI and mag stand can be bought relatively cheaply. That way you can properly measure run out.
That is correct on all counts.
@@catalystreactionsbw I can't wait for the next video then 👌🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
well as far as i remember you grinded the disc mechanically... hard to get it plane (flat and even) that way... and regarding to that mayb hard to adjust ones brakes later too. mayb replace it with some lighter, better, and cheaper too... it's been a while since '05? :)
I chose the brake hone as is was easy to use and not very abrasive compared to a sand blaster or 200 grit sandpaper. It is really hard to get the rotors flat on sanding as we have no machine available to "turn" rotors as there are for cars. Maybe that is a million dollar idea?
@@catalystreactionsbw regarding the costs of a set of oem ones that maybe is.. esp for that elderly gals :D the procedure did look a bit... brutal and working brakes r vital esp on a racer.
sry sir, didn't want to insult or lecture you, english is not my native language :)
@@justRORIRARU You did not insult me - you shared very clear thoughts that many others are not willing to type and your questions lead to more conversation for others to decide how they want to do it. I appreciate your contribution!
@@catalystreactionsbw what kind of grading does the honing disc have? to the 200 grit?
@@GGj-q9k 120 grit to 200 grit is common to clean. I would finish with 400 grit.
Biggest load of crap I've heard on wheels and rotors. This guy has no idea what he's doing But at least he bullshits with confidence How can he not have access to a dial gauge?
Why would my front end bounce at real low speed with brake pressure??? I can brake at 90mph and it's perfect. But as soon as I get down under 15mph or so it starts bouncing.
Speed creates velocity of movement so slow speed is insufficient to make the forks work so they fail to absorb bumps.
just get dial indicator... and measure run out on the bike not on wheel stand. You want to see whats happening when wheel is spinning on the bike
Hi Dave .. would love you to do a review on the Ducati 848 Streetfighter suspension set up .. from here in Blighty 🇬🇧🇬🇧
If we find one we will add it to the list. I can help you via Remote Tuning if you have the tools and time. If you are interested in this, please email me dave@davemosstuning.com
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Actually we have a couple I can edit into a 2 Clicks Out episode for you and post in the next week or so.
Index the rotors to get lest runout
But probly need all new rotors
Put a dial indicator on the rotors
I was looking at creating a mount for vernier calipers set perfectly horizontal to start with a wide gap, then as they close, see how much difference there is across the entire rotor surface as the wheel locates. Dial indicator for those who know what that is gives more accurate data and is a lot more time consuming, BUT, you get results in much greater detail.
My k4 gsxr 600 has the front disc buttons a bit loose, the discs /buttons are making a bit noise when driving slowly on "stone road".
When i grab the disc with my hand and pull back and forward into the direction it spin, i notice that moves about 3 mm!
Is this acceptable?
If not, they are fixed or replaced?
Thanks
Seems a excessive. I would look into new ones or new rotor.
When You flatten the buttons and the disc make noise. The rotor has become a floating rotor and should spin more freely. Like on race bikes.
@@Apollo-Computers thanks for the feedback.
A complete new rotors/disc seams bit expensive and my discs seems good.
I'll consider the option to change the "buttons"
Thanks
On my bike 2018 stock gsxr 750 it’s 4.5 mm
Jesus christ could you please hold the camera still, or use a tripod, when trying to see the wheels run-out?
I know this series is just good as an excuse to do a great informational on how to approach an old motorcycle but i am sure such a bike is MAYBE good for parting and not certainly viable for a restoration unless one wants to waste money.
Still, i love the approach you take on figuring out issues and how to fix them. Thank you.
My 2005 Gsx-R 750 is still killing it and rolling hard with 1000's regularly.
Regular maintenance and a solid bike can easily outperform a much newer high end bike....
+
It's really all in the rider
@@silversoozookee2839 That is not what i said. Clearly this is a bike that has been sitting untouched for years and it shows. Some people will ride stolen recovered bikes like nothing happened. I prefer being safe, you know. Sure an old bike can be good providing it has not been abandoned. This video reinforces the point that Dave made when they started the series. Some people said that it was "shocking" they paid such a low price for it. Well...
cashflow - if you have just limited amount of money, you can't afford best solution straight away. In addition - this is one of four disks - bought god knows where. So it doesn't relate to bike itself.
Does it spin perfectly without calipers on bike?
he showed that a few times ...
Known problem, just trow some R6 callipers and a master cilinder on this model Gixxer and forget the oem brakes... Even after refurbishing the stock Tokico callipers. You can thank me later...
Indeed.. These tokishits suck monkey balls. Another good alternative are the Nissins from 09+ ZX6R or ZZR1400/GTR1400..
Just replaced the master cilinder on my K8 with a ZX-10R one.. and the difference was huge.. next step is the replacing the calipers with something else
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Yes! Saw that a few weeks ago at the track but stupidly didn't take any pics or vids of it. Do you have any pics? I'd like some for Ep 2 about the calipers. email timefuzer@yahoo.com thx!
Dave Williams, editor, replying here. Do you have any pics of this? I'd like some for Ep 2 about the calipers. email timefuzer@yahoo.com thx!
Harley... hold by Beer!!!!
While you do what? Buy a t-shirt from the biggest chain of t-shirt sellers in the history of motorsports? Harley has done nothing for decades in terms of advancing any of their own products. The had Porsche design an engine for them a few years back. Oddly the only motor that came stock on a Harley worth a shit. Bike still sucked shit though..
Nice job...👏👏👏🚀🚀🚀💥💥💥
For the love of God just buy a new one
im glad someone else was in pain watching this
That's not what this series is about brother! This is for the do-anything-i-can-myself type of rider who can't swing the cost of a new set of rotors or a wheel.
Dave has quite a few bikes and is like a savant when it comes to suspension on high performance bikes, with many years at the track. I do agree with you, as I have had many a buddy who wasted our time on rides doing janky fixes to stay on the ride...
His techniques solved my suspension woes on my ktm 1290r superduke.
@@kilobravo2373 some things I do not play with and that is one of them when metel bend it stretches and never go back in place again no safe dud. I will look it but will not be the same again.