Why do you get pain, fatigue, numb hands and general discomfort?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.ย. 2023
- We all purchase a motorcycle we want via looks, type of use or centered on price. Then we ride it......
We fail to take a look at and fix the ergonomic issues that we need to assess, alter if we can and change with investment to fit our anatomy based on spine and arm length, hand size and finger length, down angle from the shoulders and how much room we have in the rider seat for any freedom of movement.
This video guides you purposefully through the "cockpit triangle" measurements and how you can assess yourself and your needs against what your motorcycle provides you with.
Adaption is our best and worst quality as a human. Do not adapt to your motorcycle - get the ergonomics corrected to eliminate pain, fatigue, numb hands and general discomfort!
You can do this! - กีฬา
Glad to see you back Dave!! Hope you're doing well.
Dave has transformed my last 2 bikes with his set up advice. I now understand static sag and motorcycle ergonomics, very important as I’m 6ft 4ins and Japanese bikes are not set up for my size and weight. Thanks Dave.
Thank you posting!
@@CatalystReactionSBW I had a chance to consult with you back at a repair shop in Emeryville CA.
So glad to see you still in the game, your contribution to the industry as always filling a big need.
A most memorable experience, your advice to purchase an old FZ! over a decade ago continues to pay
off in spades. I ended up moving to Albuquerque by way of using that machine hooked up with cases
and it did the job like a dream. Thanks. Noel G.
@@noelgillett346 Thank you very much for posting your thoughts on your experience via our conversation! Glad to know there was and are positive outcomes from it!
IM at the OPOSIT SITE. Since im a relatively short guy (for nowadays standard) (IM LIKE 1, 64 m) Those new NINJA 400 AND 650 are a HEAVEN BECAUSE OF THE NEW TRIANGLE.
BUT the SUPERMOTOS (and trail) are the MOST CONFORTABLE THING for me because the seat leaves you SO CLOSE to the handlebar and its high so i keep my lower+ upper back + arms very relaxed. AND its EASY to switch positions because the seat is just a straight line. I can even sit in the rear if i want or need.
I have a ninja 300 and the distance from tank to bars are far. Also the set to pegs are a little less than i wish.
ive PUT some risers in the handlebars, its got better for the arms and for my balls and hips but worse for my back since im not that lean and now i can "curve" my spine.
True indeed, you’ve got 4 inches of height on me so I can only imagine
The bucket seat not providing an optional position is the biggest draw back to riding a sporty bike.
Great job explaining after 50 years of riding I have learned something new
I think the majority of riders buy the wrong bike. Unfortunately the majority of riders aren't open to learning. Love your video's Dave and have been watching for years
Thank you for your kind words! I agree based on the pain I misery I hear about every day that I work. Instead of getting the right ergo's it has to be bling or performance.
Mr. Dave: this one is one of the best. Thank you. It has been a while since I checked your lessons. Glad that YT offered this one to check.
Awesome content as always! You have opened my eyes and showed me the way. Suspension and ergo! Many thanks for all that you do! Hope to meet you someday.
Always enjoy and learn so much from your videos. Thank you!
So timely. I ride a sport tourer and this season have been struggling with hand and wrist pain/numbness. Thanks for this.
I would like to see a part two of this video, where you get more in depth into motorcycle comfort
So that bike is definitely built for the shorter rider then , great to see you back Dave, you've taught us all so much over the years, your a legend 👍🏼👌🏼
Thanks Dave for giving me a good understanding of suspension balance ,with spring preload and hydraulics, Appreciate the vids 👍
This is exactly how I feel on my MV F3800 plus add in hip and lower back pain! After about 1.5hrs I need to stop and stretch it’s extremely frustrating especially when riding with other people. Thanks for the info Dave!
Thanks Dave for all the wisdom !
Great to see you safe and healty again master
Thank you Mr Moss. All the best to you.
Thanks alot Dave, this was useful to get known to set up riding a comfotrable position.
Dave, your the best. I always enjoy your insights into what makes a bike work better for the individual rider. Thanks again for the great content.
Thank you - I appreciate you taking the time to post and sincerely appreciate your support!
Thanks for info Dave! Glad to see you up and continuing to educate us! Stay safe…
Thank you - working on the full recovery from cancer and start in earnest on the 27th. I will succeed!
You're back!! Good to see you again!!
I agree with your intro Dave. With time, I realized that when it comes to choose a bike, there's a huge difference between what you want and what you really need...
Leg grip and lose the gut are two things that helped me.
First bike was 06 FZ6-S and I loved bike but my back, shoulders and hands were killing me after 1+ hour of riding it. Never really understood what was problem. At first I thought I just have to get "used" to ride a bigger bike. After 1 year I decided to get Tracer 900 GT and from moment I sat on it I felt as comfortable as I could have dreamed of. Did 25 hour ride (about 1600km) on it with small stops and other than my azz hurting from that long ride I had 0 issues. Now when I actually saw this video, it all makes sense. Handlebars are much wider, straighter and taller than FZ6 and lucky enough are exactly as they have to be for no pain at all. Thanks for video!
Great to see you back Dave! 👍
So happy to see a new video. I hope you're feeling much better!
Getting there thank you!
Incredibly useful information. Thank you
Nice one Dave.
As always useful information.
I’ve used your experience and knowledge to setup my handlebars and levers.
Works perfectly.
Thanks
This may sound wrong but I woke up thinking of you and a video pops up on my TH-cam feed 😂 I definitely overlooked these simple things. Amazing how they make a huge difference. Priceless knowledge
Always interesting and insightful.
Thank you.
Learn something new everyday, much appreciated.
SO happy to see Dave back in the saddle!
Glad to see you are back Dave!! Hope you are feeling better, doing better. Love that you are talking about the rider triangle...I've definitely modified my rides to better suit my reach/shoulder width over the years...VFR1200 I'm looking at you :P
Great explanation of Fit.
I'm 6ft.2 - long inseams and arms.
First bike was a 2006 Honda 599 Hornet and the hand position at the end of the bars rang so very true. I would ride with my palms at the edge of the grips with half my hand off, straightened at a different angle. Change in bars helped immensely.
Upgraded to a 2009 Triumph Speed Triple - my goodness what a difference the riding triangle makes for comfort.
As always, Thank You for the great videos and explanations. They've all been excellent, a huge catalogue of knowledge and value.
Really appreciate you sharing how much getting the right triangle helped you! Thanks for your support!
One of fav men on youtube. Glad to see you uploaded!
I remember a previous video of yours I saw a few years ago where you asked some track riders this exact same thing. You said "what's the first thing you modified?" And they all said "exhaust". You then had them sit on their bikes and explained the importance of "Ergos" where you adjusted the bar distance, bar angle and clutch & brake handles for maximum comfort with what they had.
I had just recently bought a second-hand z900, and the previous owner had only modified the exhaust as well 😂 I'm a tall guy, and I hadn't realized how hunched over I was and how much I had to twist my hands for the bar & handles, or that I could fix it. I immediately went and got a riser and adjusted the sweep & put the handles in line with my arms, and the relief was immense.
Never would have thought about it without your video. Thanks so much for 3 years of pain-free commuting ♥️
Thanks for sharing Scott. I hope your post will convince all riders to takle a look at ergonomics and at least evaluate what they have. 3 years of pain free commuting as a net result is a clear statement that you can get it right!
Ergonimics on older bikes are better than what they make now.
Like running backwards into the future
Good explanation. I have the same issues on current bike and almost none on a test ride with an other. Despite it being leaning towards the front too.
So I now understand the complete issue with these factors.
I've had the numb throttle hand for years and across many different bikes, but never heard this. Thank you.
He goes more in depth regarding hand/wrist position in a couple other videos. Here's one on averall ergonomics I found helpful: th-cam.com/video/WmiUh7W6URw/w-d-xo.html
Anyway, the more reach on a bike, the more pressure on hands, and all the more pain a mismatched setup brings.
@@flinch622 Thanks friend.
@@Tech-ot4iygod the bike community is so good to eachother
Same thing with helmets, and not feeling pain… but for some that is all they have known and just took it as part of riding
@wobblysauce facts! That comment needs to be pinned. I have had gsxr 1ks for about 85% of my riding time and used to think the long ride discomfort was jus bc I'm stretched out, but putting in the time and effort to do what Dave says (even when u think u know your bike better) has changed my mental approach as well. So now my bike handles a LOT better, I'm positioned more comfortable now too, and I know I still have more room for improvement and an "uncomfortable sportbike" doesn't have to be a joy killer.
Thank you so much for all your videos… they’re among the best of the best!! I’m 56 years old and bought my last sport bike - a 2016 BMW S1000RR and start getting the wrist cramps around the one hour mark… your advice is much appreciated Sir… Kudos!!
Maybe adjust the front brake and clutch lower
Welcome back Dave!!!
Great advice indeed!
Thank you, My Indian feels 10x times better after you set it up yesterday
Thanks for the feedback!! I appreciate the opportunity to work with you and your Indian!
More talk needed about ergos! I think it's under appreciated.
Wow that just answered so many questions thank you Dave.
Glad that was very helpful to you!
I had a Suzuki RF900RW (I sorely miss it, it was phenominally underrated bike), but I also modified her with a coupla 'Tweeks', first to raise the standard 'Clamp on' handlebars, then I moved onto the Bandit 1200 Yoke & 1 piece par setup, WHAT A DIFFERENCE! Night and day!!! So for the guys & gals that aren't aware, YES, IF your current 'Steed' makes you uncomfortable, look for 'XXXXXX' (being your bikes' make and model) & Handlebar risers/replacement kit", get it fitted correctly by a qualified/experienced bike tech, and you WILL ride with more confidence because of less pain! What's more, you may very well find you have more control over your 'Beastie' too! 👌👍
😎🇬🇧
I’m in California. You showed me a lot Dave I appreciate it.
I bought a Renthal bar for my Buell and it made an enormous difference based on this same problem. It’s straighter and wider and it is amazing
Perfect video, great summary and explanation, thank you so much! I own a NINJA650 and can't ride it more than 2 hours total trip in one day!!
Building core strength helped me with wrist, shoulder and between the shoulder blades pain on my K1200GT. Core carrying my torso weight instead of supporting it pressing on the grips. I still occasionally catch myself supporting my torso weight by leaning on the grips instead of using my core. The peg height and slightly behind position initially caused knee and hip pain. I noticed I was carrying my body weight on the pegs. I learned to relax my hips and sit on the seat rather than sitting on the pegs. My pain wasn’t so much the ergonomics of the bike as it was I didn’t have the fitness or awareness how the ergonomics affected me. Increased fitness and awareness where and how I carried the weight significantly reduced fatigue and aches.
Good to see you're back up again. Looking forward to your next workshop at RS Motorcycles. Cheers
Thank you. Hope to be back ion NZ next year!
What Dave has described equates to why my 1982 Honda CB900F is such a comfortable long distance ride. There aren’t many new bikes other than a Goldwing that have the perfect ergonomics triangle and comfy seat. Great video.
The 80s had it right.
More upright seating position, wider straight bars and less bend in the knees? Adventure bikes get close but the high seat height can be a problem.
Very interesting. and a lot to consider when I pick out a new bike. Glad I like the retro bikes and cruisers which tend not to have such a fixed seat position as the sportier bikes.
Wish you all the health Dave, good to see you back. Thanks for the videos :)
Thanks for watching and your support!
Been shopping for a new/ used bike without ever giving thought to ergonomics like this. Lol being 54 and riding since a child I am still csb learn new things. Thank you for giving me more to think of.
Thank you for your comment. I appreciate you watching and finding the content useful for your future purchase
thank you
Now i understand why my arms hurt so much each time i ride to work. I kept thinking it was my riding posture, but i think it is the bike. Thank you for the video!
I hope that proves to be the case and thanks for the kind words about the video. Please post what changes you made the created much greater comfort for you so others can learn.
Thank you for sharing! 🎉
Cheers Dave.
Knowledge is power !! so evidence ! 👍👍👍
Thankyou for this vid from a beginner valuable information
Glad you enjoyed it and will put the content to use.
Looking trim sir. Nice video!
Good video Dave. taking a few minutes to set up the suspension, bar, lever position and where possible adjusting foot pegs can make the difference between enjoying your bike or having a miserable time and selling it off.
Thank you so much
Glad you enjoyed it.
Dave, me old son, that's an interesting video and I'll certainly be giving that a bit of thought. I rode my XR650R from Sacramento to Cabo San Lucas, when I got there I was literally in physio for 2 months (I have herniated disks and it really kicked them off). My main issue was sitting on a 4x2 plank of wood for a dirt bike seat shuffling from one arse cheek to another, this has been changed for a much better Renazco seat, expensive but totally worth it. I have plenty of seat to handlebar room of course depending how much shit I am carrying but I will look at those other measurements for sure as I'm planning on some other long rides. Good video that though. Glad to see you up and running as well mate. All the best Youngie...
No!
Do an experiment... hold a flat palm away from you as if pushing someone away.
Look at the angle of your fingers, they wont be vertical to the ground.
Move your hand so they are vertical, you feel your chest and shoulder get tight.
The ideal position to gold ANY bar in any situation is to have the bar acros the palm of your hand so our elbows HAVE to be out.
If your elbows are in, the stress is through small arm muscles.
To engage the larger back muscles rotate your elbows up.
ALL bike training courses advise this, from flat tracking to motorcross to road riding.
And by doin this your weight will be split across your bum and back, and will make the bike feel larger and less compact.
I’ve got a Spyder F-3S it is very nice and sporty! Comfortable all day.
Great vid... Really helped 😎🙏
this is very helpful, because with bicycles you can choose the size of frame, handle bar width etc to suit your body type. Thanks for sharing
Glad this video made sense to translate principles from bicycles to motorcycles.
Good one! I commute daily on my HD Low Rider S and I get neck C-6 to T-1 neck pain (Cervical 6 vertebrae to Thoracic 1st vertebrae) and numb hands. Looking into new seat and handle bars and risers which will allow me to lean back some. I think that will make the difference. Like to see a more in-depth video where you actually make the changes and ride it then tell us if it made a difference
Years ago l owned a Guzzi Lemans 850 and a Ducati 900 bevel drive. these bikes were of course 'cafe racer/road racer' style bikes...before the term Sports bike was commonly used. l would move the Clip-ons, plus the angle of the control levers. But one just had to suffer for the sake of 'The look' ...Now, more than forty years later ....I'm listening Dave..!
Thanks for sharing your experiences and having an open mind!!!
Wondered about this. What are the calculations for the triangle? Just trial and error? Might get expensive.
I Guess The same math for bicycles...
This video highlights a common problem with new bikes: the seats are cramped slots, placed behind a high and bulging gas tank. Then you have to lean over and around this tank to get at the handlebars. The bars are constructed for visual style, instead of comfort. Big "adventure" bikes are some of the worst offenders - exactly those bikes you would think would have figured out long haul rider comfort. But motorcycle stylists are currently fixated on the "angry insect" look - hard edges and angles, minimalist seats, tiny rear passenger space and skimpy little steel foot pegs. The wide and sensible handlebars of, say, the 1960's British road bikes need to be rediscovered. I have a BMW R1150 - and it seats quite close to my first bike, a 650 Triumph Saint, which the British police used for years.
At 6ft 2 I had to get the seat of my BMW XR customised so that i could sit further back to reduce the hip/knee angle. Also an opportunity to make the seat more comfortable. The OEM was a bucket style seat with no room to move.
I ride a CBR1000RR since I was 27 years old.
I am now 47 and still riding it. Same bike.
Just about the only thing that hurts is my butt after about 2 hours.
But never any pain the following day of a ride.
Is it the most comfortable bike? No.
Does it handle nicely. Hell yes.
Would I trade it? No. Would I change anything? No.
I have recently even installed a 47 litres Givi top box on it where the passenger seat should be. Nothing touches the paint work.
Moto camping ⛺️ with the old CBR now. 🤩
The ultimate supersport tourer..!! 🥳
This is fascinating, the bike that I went fastest on was a Yam Tracer 700: lean angle, throttle out of corners, all much faster than other bikes I've had; previously a MT07 (stolen) and now a CB650R. But,
I have 175k miles on a 1998 Bandit 1200. Been all over the US with it. The secret? A modified Corbin seat cut flat to the gas tank and flat, "drag" bars, slight bend. The pegs are neutral; I can sit on it all day.
Good to see you up and posting again, Dave.
I'm 5'10" and blessed w/a gorilla-esque physique. On my former Ninja 1000, I added Murph's risers- they didn't address the angle issue but added some height and backwards movement-, grip puppies, HVMP bar ends and a throttle lock to add some comfort on my ailing, aching. elderly shoulders. I tried a number of different seats but ended up w/a seat designed by a local auto upholsterer. I also added footpeg lowering brackets to give my knees and hips a bit more room- voila! Still wasn't perfect but it was a much better fit for my riding purposes and needs. You gotta make the bike fit you!
Thank you - great post and thank you for sharing what you did to get as much comfort as you could given your physique and age. Great stuff to inspire others not to suffer!
Never thought about this
I get the sharp pain in the back of the neck after about an hour or so start and only gets worse the longer the ride is. I will look at the hand, wrist & elbow position on next ride to access if I need a different bar. Thanks Dave.
One of the most comfortable bikes I had was a CBR1100XX Blackbird 1997 and another was the Fazer 1000 2005
God job Dave😊
Thank you!
Dave, you are the best. I wish i could bring my bike to you and you show me if everything is right for me. I have a 2009 r1.
Hello Dave , we really need someone with your knowledge and experience here in Costa Rica...Cheers...👍
i'm always amazed at how few motorcyclists sort the ergonomics of their bikes. it's always the thing i pay first attention to, risers, bars, seat height, before anything else... you wouldn't even drive a hire car without adjusting the seat to suit you, bum to pedal, backrest to steering wheel and gear lever, so why would you ride your own motorbike without sorting your foot to bum to hand relationship?
Absloutley make sure you're comfy with the bike you buy! I'm a sooter rider at 5'10" knee space is very important for steering.
My friend added a Renthal bar to his Yamaha R1. And he loves it !! Comfort increased a lot for him, and he is still just as fast !!
Great to see you back again on the Channel 😊
Thank you! Good to be filming again and creating new content to help riders.
Might be just as fast but now he's looking all dumb sitting upright on race bike
My 1200 Bandit is comfortable on long roads and never experience such un-comfort and pain, even after 8 hours on the road with breaks every 1.5 - 2 hours. But I had to go and measure to compare. I am 1.8 meter with most of my length in my legs.
Bar width = 72cm. Seat to bar = 55cm and the seat is as you know slightly stepped.
I don't have experience with many other bikes, especially long road riding, but this one is here to stay for as long as I can ride or it will last.
Gripping the tank with your legs and bracing your core will also help with back, shoulder, arm and wrist pains.
Hi Dave. I've been riding daily since 1974, owned bikes since 1970. Your videos always educate me. Thanks heaps. I hope you will excuse me if I offer you a little education, all be it from an Australian perspective. Thanks for using metric measurements. In Aus cm aren't to be used in engineering, building, or architecture. The metric system is based on lots of 10 to the power of 3. micro, milli, kilo, mega etc. Centimetres are 1/100 so don't fit. So inches and feet have been recognised engineering units, centimeters have never been. Maybe I'm completely wrong here because you are talking about body dimensions and cm are used in medicine. Thanks again for your clear accurate educational videos. Keep the shiny side up.
a mod video for this bike (because it's a popular bike that many people have) will be good to show the difference and parts that would make a difference.
I am fortunate enough to own 5 motorcycles. I have found that the bars that have more sweep cause hand cramps and my wrists to get numb and sore. One of the first things I do is upgrade the handlebars to suit my needs and body.
Another consideration is that changing to bike with more sport orientated ergonomics engages muscles differently than say for examplethe Multistrada he refers to. Over time, those muscles get stronger and adapt.
I hope this man never dies. He’s a legend
Yeah after 1.5 hours on a 650r 2017 I start getting pain in my wrists and numb hands. Nice explanation!
Thanks for watching!
This is why I ride older bikes from the 60s and 70s. The seats are wider and flat so it is easier to position yourself. Also American style handlebars which are higher give a much more upright relaxing ride. It means little pressure on the wrists. The geometry on most modern bikes is all wrong and not suitable for longer rides. This is why many bikers are returning to more classic style motorcycles.
Good information, you are lean forward on the handlebar on straight hands, that will put pressure on palm of your hands and also lower back pain. I had the problems with my naked bike, lean forward on the handlebars, changed the handlebar to high adventure handlebar plus risers, now I have adventure sport bike! Much more comfortable, upright setting position!
thanks for posting!!
Good info. Thanks for pointing out this mystery of growing miserable from riding a once initially awesome choice of motorcycle. Aftermarket parts....👍🤪 not to just make the bike look good but feel good. Ialways upgrade my seat and handlebars on every new motorcycle to me.💡
Thank you for watching and using the content to good effect!
Thats exactly why my next bike is gonna be a BMW GSA 1250, I'm just too big for most bikes, problem solved.... hope you feel better Dave...
Working at it every day - getting there!
At 62, I bought my current machine with ergonomics first. I bought a GSXS 1000GT + knowing full well that I need a bike with wider and taller bars, a more upright riding position and a minimum of knee bend. The only drawback is my old ass gets sore after 150 miles 😂😂😂
I did the pro taper and 30mm raised clamp on my bandit 1250N mutch better bike to ride now 👌cool vid Dave hi from 🇦🇺
Thanks for sharing your mods and how they helped you! That will help others realize change is good not daunting.....