One of the funny things is, the biggest reason cats were used instead of humans is because the artist wanted to have more expressive faces, and with the cats, the wider grins and bigger eyes felt more natural than if they'd been on human characters.
@@RoamingTrend I think there's some validity to it, too. I mean, the expressions in Lackidaisy are great; the malicious grin Rocky gives when he sees who owns the Quarry, Freckle's drastic shift from meek and calm to gun-mad triggerman; I feel like both would be less expressive on a human character; or at least wouldn't have that same oomph.
Here's the thing that most people don't know. The Lackadaisy "Pilot" wasn't originally meant to be a pilot at all. During the initial campaign and production, it was billed as a "short film" meant specifically for Lackadaisy fans. Tracy and her team never had any ambitions to make it a full-blown animated series yet. Therefore, the "pilot" isn't actually a pilot. Its not that the team behind LD don't know how to write- its that they were writing for a contained short-film with a focus on existing fans, not an animated pilot with broad appeal that would lead to a full series. Somewhere along the way, they decided to make it a pilot instead to see how it would perform as such, but that was very late into development. Yeah, its pretty sloppy to do it that way, but I feel like the end product is still good enough to be called a successful pilot overall. This is coming from someone who didn't read the comic before watching it, either. I honestly had no problems figuring out what was going on. However, I think this often overlooked fact would explain many of the criticisms stated in this video. And, it should also get people more excited for the actual first season, where its clear that they're adapting the comic from the beginning and going into much more detail. The first season seems to have a much better handle on things from the start, as, y'know, they're developing it as an actual series and not just an ad-hoc pilot. After reading the comic, I can say that if they pull this off, no one is going to have much to complain about anymore!
They decided to make a full pilot when the crowdfunding got off the rails, and the part about the fan service thing is completely right, since it explore heavily the comic's dynamics and characteristics. Just count the amount of reference to the comics this pilot has, and you immediately understand why it was made the way it is The original pilot would only include the start until the chase scene, for as much as I could infer from back-in-the-day information.
@@voicedjohn Yeah admittedly it probably wasn't the best way to go about things, but honestly enough people love it (me included) and feel like it was successful despite those factors. $2 mil in kickstarter money for a first season compared to the $300k for the pilot is proof enough of that!
Expository dialogue doesn’t have to be literal…”noodle arms” was clearly a joke, Rocky was just avoiding doing work because he prefers to goof off on his violin and wax poetic, in his own stylized world of artistic musings. Also, some people can pick up large vocabularies simply via an interest in literature. And still struggle to pronounce names. All without a college education, too. And for the “furry” cringe…most of these characteristics are just cartoonish things, which a lot of furries have adapted into their own characters, sure, but being bumbling and goofy and exaggerated is a common cartoon trope to employ. Also, “Freckles is the muscle” seems to be a joke at first, but then we realize later that he is literally the dude ya give a gun to. It’s kinda a double back joke.
I find lackadaisy a great show,i like the way Tracy is able to make mature jokes without using excessive swearing,the animation also reminds me of old disney's animation along "cats don't dance",the best example of a show that be seen by everybody regardless of age (but hey,it's just my opinion)
@@RoamingTrend Exactly,even by minor details we can see The passion tracy has for her artwork through all these years,she reminds me a lot of betsy lee,you should talk abt her too someday,Her work has been going unoticed for 10 years already
@@DragonEnthusiast709I have been having this idea of a Tom & Jerry crossover with this Show but only with Tom and any other cat character such as Butch Toodles and Lighting
People have already left pretty good points so I’ll just leave my main two cents: The reason that a lot of the characters being “psychotic” in your opinion, is because the story is about gangsters working for a dying business that has to sell illegal alcohol. These aren’t just normal, upright citizens. Crime is almost always not for the mentally stable. Also 19:24 Mitzi’s not getting a ray of hope, she’s reminiscing about her late husband and the time when their speakeasy was more successful, during 1926, they showcase that with the scene of a glimpse into the past
Fictional writing isn’t meant to be tied to reality, they are supposed to tell the story in the most entertaining way as possible. Meaning diverse character personalities
@ I see your point, but in my opinion, the characters deemed as psychotic all have different forms of it, like how there are different forms of insanity in real life. Who says it can’t be entertaining to watch? It’s chaotic and not predictable, I don’t think anyone expected Rocky to crash the car, find a whole lotta dynamite and then start going haywire while still reciting poetry. The characters are all still distinct because lack of sanity isn’t a personality trait, it’s an issue that almost all of the characters share.
In criminal organisations, psychologically stable individuals are the ideal recruits. If the criminal activity involves meticulous planning, then mentally ill recruits are undependable and have a higher likelihood to go rogue and act independently. But then again, fiction isn't obligated to be reflective of reality
@@newpaperyes good point, but there’s fewer characters with that mentality because the speakeasy’s doing bad for business, which they shown in the pilot with it being nearly empty, and Mitzi explicitly saying she has to cut the band’s paychecks in the comic. That’s why I think most of the characters are there now for sadder reasons
Hope I can get better. Trying to find a balance between entertaining and informative. I think the overall points are there, but I spent a bit too much time going scene by scene, which I didn't need to.
@@RoamingTrendnah man, your points were fine. Your bigger points were well thought out, and although you had a lot of nitpicks, just as how enough crumbs can make a cookie, enough nitpicks can elude to an overall lack of attention to detail.
2:14 I thought this was just paying homage to the Great Gatsby and other books set in the 1920s, or even the Noir genre as a whole. Longewinded soliloquy's about geography is kind of a staple of the genre.
I see what you're saying on a lot of the video, though I would personally disagree with some of the ideas. I think someone else in the comments had a similar thought to me in that calling this "furry writing" feels unnecessary or inaccurate. I feel like calling it indie writing would work better, since many of your points tied into other indie animations more than other "furry" works. I would also say that I don't think many of the questions you brought up should need to be answered in the pilot. Not that a pilot can't answer any questions, but things like, what is the exact relationship between Rocky and Freckles, who is the other gang, why do the characters act the way they do should remain unanswered in the pilot and be left for the actual show to establish. Imagine how bloated and fast the writing would feel if they tried to thoroughly answer all those questions in 30 minutes, on top of introducing the characters and the world. Those questions should be answered, but in the show itself, where each question can be given its due diligence. I would agree that having as many characters as they did laugh manically does take away the edge of it, but I am still not too bothered by it personally, since even though a bunch of characters do the crazy laugh thing, they all seem to do it for different reasons, the rival mobsters are a kind of adrenaline junky that love chaos, Freckles seems to have some kind of obsession with destructive things, like the kid that likes fire a bit too much to be normal, and I think Rocky's was a near death experience type thing. Overall, I think the pilot accomplishes its goal. It introduces the world, gives an entertaining show, gives us a base idea of each character to work off of, and drops hints that there is more to the world to keep you intrigued and to provide justification for the rest of the show existing. Apologies for the long-winded comment, but your video gave me a lot to think about and I wanted to make sure I expressed my ideas properly. Good video
To be fair to the Lackadaisy team, I think that in avoiding reading the comic you're unknowingly suggesting changes that ignore that the writers likely intended to stay consistent with the comic whenever possible (e.g. questioning whether Rocky and Freckle could have instead been brothers). This would probably be a bit more arguable for a full-length series - but the pilot was crowdfunded by Lackadaisy fans, so I think it'd make sense for the team to want to work in a lot of references to the comic. Same goes for Rocky's monologue at the beginning, though that one's probably more arguable.
As I said, if the pilot is anything to go by, I know what to expect from the comic. If you say that the comic has more narrative substance, then they failed to translate it into this pilot. If these characters have plenty of characterization in the comics, why didn't they use them in the pilot? The characters we have here are paper thin. If the cousin thing is really important, write the pilot around that angle. If it's not, don't even have the line and focus on some other aspect of these characters.
@@RoamingTrend That's fair. It's been a year or so since I've read Lackadaisy, so I don't think I can confidently say either way - but, like another comment (that you may not have seen before you wrote this response, so no shade) mentioned, this seems like more of a spectacle-advertisement for current fans of the comic. I don't think that that invalidates criticism of either, but I do think it's understandable if they'd want to avoid permanent character development.
@@redcathode Turning them from cousins to brothers is more a suggestion for the dynamic the pilot was trying to establish. The critique is that their familial relationship is clunkily presented and perhaps even unnecessary since there is no difference to the pilot's story whether they were or weren't cousins. Whenever I offer my take on how the story could go, it's a just a possibility I see when watching these characters in the pilot. Whatever arc or character development they had in the comic is not here.
So, either the source material is bad or this is a bad adaptation.... either way it's bad. I know a lot, if not most, webcomics struggle with consistincy because of their episodic nature but when you adapt it afterwards there is no excuse
I don't know if the pilot needed to bring up their familial relationship if it has no meaning in the episode. Might be something for an episode regarding their past or relationship.
While I do agree on the "the poem is too damn long", most of the rest feels, like, REALLY nitpicky. In a "for it being furry I'm going to be extra-extra anal about _everything"_ way.
I'd say so too. I think I focused too much on a shot by shot view of the pilot and it would've been better with an overal discussion on those flaws. But hey, still developing a style and tone for my videos.
@@RoamingTrend Well, for example, that a character cannot know "smarty-pants" words unless its explicitly explained (not relevant for the pilot); or that family relationships must be explained (not relevant for the pilot); or that the opponents don't make their presence known for too long (dramatic timing is a thing), or that talking to yourself is a sign of insanity (while its literally the most common way of voicing character's inner thoughts in works that do not have noir-like narrations)
@DarthBiomech 1) I said, it's not a problem if they establish it later on, but don't have him use smarty-pants words and then struggle to read in the next scene. 2) if the family relationship is not relevant, don't have it in the pilot. 3) and they could've built more tension by revealing them to the audience sooner, before the action. 4) On its own, it wouldn't be a problem, but around all these cackling psychos? It may be seen as another sign of insanity
Many writers don't understand the importance of simplicity. Trying to subvert traditional writing conventions has way too high of a chance to fall flat on its face. It's okay to stick to "stereotypes," even if it might make the characters "simple." It keeps the characters from feeling the exact same, or just generally underwhelming and uninspired, by trying to subvert these tropes. It's okay if something isn't something a brand new experience with never-before-seen character identities, just focus on making it engaging. Also, trying to change the tone every ten seconds isn't a good idea. If you want action scenes to be taken seriously, the gravity of the situation should be at the forefront, and not interrupted by a wacky-zany character doing a wacky-zany thing. Keep that consistency, and allow the viewers to trust that the rug won't be pulled from under their feet.
this feels half actual critique, half nitpicky, but.... To be fair, I can tell a good amount of the character interactions and personalities leaned heavily on having read through the comic and having the context of why they may act the way they do here, which is lots of fun for those that have and can still be a decent time for those who haven't and are just here to appreciate animation. Also, maybe I don't understand what the POINT of a pilot has to be, but I just imagined that this one was just to present the characters in a similar way the comics did and hook the fans off their personalities. idk, I might just be talkin outta my ass, but this video just felt a lot more harsh than your past few, still a good watch tho ^^"
yeah, this puts the point i was trying to make better than i did. there *is* some valid criticism here, and i imagine this video took a lot of effort to make - but, with that in mind, it feels a bit disingenuous to criticize a multi-year production without taking a few hours to read the source material and understand the circumstances it was created within
"maybe I don't understand what the POINT of a pilot has to be" That's why a lot of people are going to dislike this video. Pilots are known to tv writers as a test of skill, spec scripts, because of how much they need to accomplish in a short period of time while the average audience member is just happy to get free entertainment, many of them admit "why criticize something I am getting for free?". And you are talking out of your ass, of his last 8 videos, 5 are very critical
@@redcathode Here's the thing though. Your audience should not have to do homework. If your audience needs to read or watch supplemental material in order to understand what is happening, you've failed as a writer. You need to be able to convey all the things you intended to within the episode. If you can't do that, why should your audience trust your skill as a writer for future episodes?
@@ziizii2306 the main audience is mainly Lackadaisy fans who read the comic considering that the pilot was funded by them. So really I see why they would lean more into giving fans what they want. Also, the homework is for the guy who made the video to make a proper critique of the pilot, not the other quarter half of the audience. Though I do understand the struggle for non-comic fans of Lackadaisy.
@@poopy5101 But the point of releasing a pilot is specifically NOT to give the people who are already fans what they want, but to reel in even more people and potential studios to take the project on. Both of which would be thus far unfamiliar with the work. It's also just poor form in general to create a show and have the source be required reading to understand important nuances; you don't go in to see a movie for the first time and think the viewers should have read the book first to understand what is going on. Reading source material should be optional only, and something that just gives greater appreciation for the SMALL bits that you couldn't get from a show.
17:39 what you think she is insane all because she kind of talking to the painting of her husband Her husband died and she messaged him a lot come on man. Sometimes you kinda do a little crazy thing here and there if your family if your loved ones died
I never see anyone bring this up so I'll be the one to do so. As someone who was following the pilot's production from pretty much the beginning, I can say that it wasn't meant to be the pilot. When it was pitched, it was pitched as a short film featuring lackadaisy characters. The reason it seems like its primarily fanservice is because that's all it was meant to be. Hell, I didn't even know it changed to be a pilot until the premeire was put up on TH-cam. (Maybe they ssid it somewhere else, at the time i only followed them on TH-cam) My guess is that at some point either because of interest from the fans or an influx of funding, the team switched focus from doing a single animation to an whole series. Since the animation was well into development, obviously they couldn't turn the script into something more newcomer friendly and now we have this pilot-shortfilm Frankenstein. Im not excusing the shortcomings mind you, im just sharing my theory for why the main one people bring up is there. TL;DR The Lackadaisy Pilot was originally just going to be just a one off short film. When it was changed to be a pilot instead the facervice-y elements remained.
As another someone who watched the pilot, then read the series, these critiques are so interesting because of that lack of context- though I couldn't say I know where the overall story of lackadaisy is going. As one comment noted, the "pilot" is more fanservice- which make's a lot more make sense. It's in the middle of things but after the pilot. Quirks of characters are explained in the comic, that's where all the setup is. I will admit I am not the best media critic, but that element of competence you felt was lacking was so interesting- because it's true. Mordecai and Viktor are really the only competent ones- and their held back by their emotional attachments. Sera and Nico are insane- good at destrucution/chaos, but aren't fully invested in the cause they were hired for. Looking at this from the 5-man-band angle, where each serves a role and compliments each other, the central lackadaisy crew _should_ be more competent, but since they lack Victor and Mordecai, they are unbalanced. also rocky got hit by a truck... he was always a bit crazy... but brain trauma does stuff to you... Though I 100% suffer from furry writing syndrome and may be biased :3
The comic is actually really good and doesn’t have most of the flaws pointed in the video, I think they made the chapter like this because they only had 20 minutes to show everything
And they wasted a lot of those minutes or way too long gags, poems, psycho Rocky scenes, ect. I think you could've fit a lot more by cutting a lot of those down.
3:30 strong disagree there. You should look at the writing of the era. A smart literate person of the 1900-1930s would likely be familiar with those words and have used them. The literacy rate was low in that period, but when you were literate the standards and material used was of far far higher complexity than the dreg kids read today. I won't disagree with you on the writing though, it is bad; but because it is doing the awkward things bad comic book writing sometimes does, overexplaining. I will say the voice acting bugs me the most, both because the accent and delivery feel and sound wrong for 1920s deep south era.
the main problem i have with most of those indie shows is that they seems to always write their main characters as naive idiots for the sake of making them ''cute'', ''relatable'' to a especific internet audience, they complete ignore the backstory those characters should have in the enviroment they suppose to live. because of that you end with characters like chalier from hasbin hotel who suppose to have a life time experience living in hell and some experience with politics but she complete ignore that for the sake of making her naive and ''cute''
If you read the comics and the ins and outs of why some of these decisions were made, it would definitely make things a lot better. For example: The reason why Viktor doesn't do much is because he has a lot of bad injuries that would hinder him like crazy, like not being able to bend his knees correctly. If you see him in the comic, it slows him down like crazy and he can never do much because of it. I do agree they should've shown this in some sort of way like they did in the comics. Mordecai didn't hire Sarafine and Nico, he was probably forced into it as you can see he's not really interested. Nico and Sarafine aren't incompetent, they're just arrogant, so they look at smaller operations like these and spend the whole time just lallygagging since they see the other gang as being like little bugs to play with and just squish whenever they're done playing with them. Of course, they were kind of right since they had a billion chances to kill them but they were able to escape in the end because they got super cocky. You can even see this when Sarafine is helping Nico up and they're still joking around while Mordecai is looking at the whole thing exactly as anyone else would seeing how much of a waste of time it was when his goal was to get the alcohol, while the other two just wanted to have fun tormenting a small gang. This would explain the long wait to actually attack, their waiting for them to pack up the bottles, Sarafine's purposefully bad aim, Nico just ramming the car instead of just shooting, and their disregard for the actual alcohol. They just have extremely different priorities. Not everyone is psycho in the pilot. Freckle has an obsession with guns (which they also explain in the comic) that he always tries to avoid guns for, Mitzi is not actually crazy, she's just kind of reminiscing and mourning over her husband (it's not like she thinks he's alive or something). Sarafine is actually just a psychopath because of her disregard for life and the fun she has just chasing and shooting at people. Rocky, on the other hand, as a character, isn't psycho, he's just stupid and foolish and I do agree that that scene of him being crazy with the bombs and stuff was totally unnecessary. They could've displayed his incompetency in a totally different way. They do have better reasons that the three they chose for the job were chosen, mainly because of the specific relationships they each have with Mitzi, but also because Mitzi probably didn't expect the operation to be as crazy as it was knowing that all they had to do was pick up the bottles and leave. Despite being cousins, Rocky and Freckle were still very close as kids and again it's displayed a lot better in the comics. I do agree with other points you made though that are completely justified for example: The entire scene of Rocky being psycho with the bombs was unnecessary. Rocky should not be able to carry the coffin with one arm as he did, he's a spaghetti noodle. The poem should've had a better meaning to it other than just a reference back to the comic. There should've been a better reason to have hope in the last scene or at least a better stress on the idea that they still had a victory in their retrieval of some kind of alcohol. And yeah... the scene at 13:46 is kinda cringe. Pretty awesome video. Even though I disagree with a fair amount, I thought your criticisms were very good. Keep up the good work, man.
3:18 that all has to do with Rocky's backstory. He didn't go to school and lived on the streets and in a circus for most of his life, so he naturally studied everything he could get his hands on. That's why he knows all the fancy words.
I couldn't find the exact words myself to describe why the indie animations feel so grand and yet fall so short, but you've given alot of clarity and helpful dissecting overview of why these highly aspiring projects lack something that prevents me from wanting to fully revisit them. Great video!
In Tracy’s defense she said the reason they’re cats is because the only way she could think to make them super emotive was to make anime characters or cats and anime was way over done
That's.....a very strange response, I'll say. Like we've had animated humans with very expressive faces that weren't anime for...like, actual decades. I mean no offense but that legitimately comes across like a skill issue. I don't hate it, mind you, I think how she expresses with cats is quite nice. I just think that is a weird statement.
@@ARStudios2000 I agree it's a skill issue, but I like the animation style and I hate that everything with anthropomorphized characters gets called "furry" now. Also I heard this second hand, so I may have been misinformed, I just remember people claiming she was a furry when the pilot dropped and this was the rebuttal I saw.
4:58 The funny thing about this is, I would argue that inaccurate, or rather, *unreliable* exposition can be a great way to introduce a character when it’s on *their* terms. Willy Wonka’s 1971 incarnation managed exactly this; faked a limp on his cane and fell over, only to somersault into a grandstand to his factory participants’ applause. This establishes him as someone deceitful, that you can never tell when he’s lying or not. He is elusive, zany and fun, but at the cost of being dependable. That would probably stack up better if Mordecai, Nicodeme and Serafine got any win over the protags, but I think it’s worth mentioning. The unknowns of their relationship would *naturally* develop interest, so even if it wasn’t handled *too* well, I think the lack of wordy exposition on that front is the right direction to take.
Well I’m glad I somehow managed to stick with the whole video. You have a LOT of stuff in the first 2/3 of this video that’s just a lot of unfun nickpicking, but the stuff 15 minutes in is actually interesting and has something to say. I really like the alternate story you thought of, it’s very cohesive. But the “furry meter” definitely feels like a “ew furries are cringe” needlessly mean/rude part. Maybe if you actually explained WHY those things things (“OC going psycho,” etc) disagree with you or are bad for the story or whatever (I don’t even know, you didn’t explain WHY those concepts were bad), I’d respect that opinion more.
22:04 also at this point it’s interesting you say this, because it kind of makes your whole video pointless?? That sounds harsh, but I mean. It’s a pilot. The purpose of it was to show off spectacle, show off what could be possible in the story, garner support, _be a spectacle_, etc. The actual teaser for the season and the shorts are accurate to what story the show is actually going to tell, but the pilot was to gather interest etc. I definitely see what you mean about the plot of the pilot, but despite your casual voice you are coming off as “grr I hate furries” or something. (Lost my words at the end, sorry)
While you make some good points, you seem to have misinterpreted a few things. The Daisy crew are not stealing from the rival gang. They are picking up a supply of liquor. Mihtzi mentions she was able to get a supply from the morgue, and later talks about getting their money's worth. That's why the rival gang doesn't care about perserving the alcohol-it's not their's at all. Sure, in theory, it would be nice to get the alcohol, but that's not why they are there. It's a side mission, a little bit of fun by crushing a rival. Lackadaisy is about a once powerful, now struggling speakeasy. The pilot's job is too show us the status quo. I actually like the way it opened up, monologue not with standing. The opening dialogue was exposition, but more about the characters than their objective roles. Rocky is hyperactive and out there, while Freckle is the straight laced cousin who gets dragged into Rocky's misadventures. While Ivy is the sassy in-between the two. As the pilot goes on, we learn more about their personality. Freckles bloodlust and combat skills, Ivy's resourcefulness, and the fact that Rocky is more observant than he seems. Going in blind, we don't know why they are there until the coffin is opened. The mihtzi part is important. When she talks to the Atlas painting, it establishes the history of Lackadaisy, that they were on top of the world. Now, their head is dead, and his widow is trying keep things together. When Mihtzi daydreams, it's not a hopeful Fantasy, but a nostalgic daydream about what was.
90% of this video 'criticism' is like fundamentally misunderstanding the premise of the show and characters and suggesting a different story entirely... like its a dark comedy + mystery. its not supposed to be a fully serious drama played straight. even so it has a lot of drama and intrigue imo but also lots of good gags and whimsy. we are frontloaded with spectacle and exposition but still supposed to be left with more questions than answers. i think the pilot is an almost perfect set up. rocky is a performer turned mobster way in over his head, he's taking on a role completely unsuited for him out of (possibly misplaced) loyalty to mitzi and his own illusions of grandeur. while i do think his monologue does overstay its welcome a bit for my personal taste, it does establish he's into drama, theater; and i dont understand the 'criticism' about him not being 'intelligent' enough to perform this, theres not really anything establishing a lack of intelligence from him (though a lack of wisdom for sure), its establishing him as a performer and shakesphere and poetry is accessible to the masses. libraries are free. he's just very much a classic Bard in terms of archetype. the show is not supposed to be competent gangsters doing competent gangster things. its a whole lot of incompetent idiots falling upwards. (and frankly how a lot of bootlegger stories go; i suspect downwards again at some point). they're not a cohesive unit at all and that's firmly established in the pilot. lackadaisy is a fallen empire after the death of atlas, and his widow mitzi is struggling to restore it to its past glory. rocky is one of the few idealistic and naive enough to try and push towards this goal, (more clear in the comic but i think decently established in the pilot as well with how proud he is of fumbling a simple pickup and viewing it as a success while mitzi can see it for the disaster it actually was). viktor WAS originally mitzi's main muscle but had to retire. this is a bit subtle but still established in the pilot, when ivy says he has no idea what she went through to get the booze and he snaps back that he has a very good idea of what she just went through. i think being irritated by rocky's tendencies is understandable; he is supposed to be a well-meaning nuisance and a wild card. (a boon ocassionally, since he does distract the savoy twins away from ivy when she's hiding under the car- but a hinderance more often, destroying the property of Sable, their main customer with any influence) but harping on and on about how he doesnt work as a protagonist because you dont like him is just writing a different show. rocky's a catalsyt. he's dynamite. i think ivy potentially could and does fill a similar role, sure, but in the original comic she's even less a part of the main trio until several chapters in (a very welcome change for the pilot imo). however i think its fair enough to say that the pilot doesn't establish rocky's personal stakes very much. (which i think its okay for a first episode, give us something to sink our teeth into later) the comic is much more clear that he has a crush on mitzi. and the dynamic of him being freckle's cousin rather than his brother is VERY important specifically BECAUSE a cousin is a bit more distant of a relation than a brother- it implies he's closer to a more distant relative than anyone in his immediate family for whatever reason (whether its death or being disowned or otherwise). from the comic we see he is skating on thin ice with his aunt and fears being discarded if he ever pushes her buttons too far. (he doesnt think through the consequences of his actions and desperately pleads for freckle not to tell his mother he's roped him into a life of crime). even in the pilot its pretty clear freckle brings up his mom because he thinks she'd stop them from doing this and even though rocky laughs it off, it does suggest some level of fear of her. if rocky wasn't the protagonist i genuinely dont think freckle would ever be involved with lackadaisy's crimes and he'd be too shy to meet ivy at all. rocky is someone with just enough personal tie and force of personality its hard for freckle to say no to him. but there is still some ambiguity that he might at some point. but to be fair freckle's aren't really either. he is protective of ivy, very cute for shipping purposes but this insistance of him being a mobster 'to protect people' is a bit overblown. (in the comics his motivations are more clear, but just from the pilot, we mostly see he's reluctant to be here, but implied rocky and ivy roped him into it) im personally very excited to learn more about the more grounded elements of rocky's character, his past is hinted at in the comics but its mentioned only in letters and dialogue, we dont ever see a young rocky flashback. (besides the childhood shenanigans of freckle and rocky in a few side comics) in the comics and side materials we do know rocky was traveling alone for some time, and also joined a circus for some amount of time; freckle and nina seem to be the only family he is still in contact with. (i think being around larger than life stunt acts really must have fueled some fire to his recklessness and i hope we see a glimpse of that too) i am curious to see if rocky is indeed going to be our primary pov, because in the comic we do get a chapters focused on mitzi, mordacai, even viktor and zib. im definately suspecting more mitzi focus for sure. i also think RT is too quick to discount the antagonist gang playing around with their kill making them seem less of a threat. they were 100% not taking this seriously because of how little threat they assume this trio poses to them. serafine calls them vermin and nico says he wasnt expecting them to have much firepower. theyre not listening to mordecai because he is NOT their boss, he's the new recruit, previously worked for lackadaisy. the whole point of him being here was probably to test him and does pretty much does confirm he has divided loyalties (decides not to shoot ivy, giving intrigue as to why for future episodes). serafine even called him out on nagging about their methods and accusing him of being too sentimental, its a bit of playful banter but also a potential threat if he ends up turning on them. if anything it makes the savoys seem even more dangerous in comparison, nico did have to jump in to save serafine from an explosion, and sera is naturally going to be pissed that her quarry escaped. they have a bone to pick now. also the furry bashing is just juvenille. sometimes people in cartoon are just animals to be more expressive and memorable. mickey mouse doesnt have any reason to be a mouse. intentional or not the kind of cat and mouse games these gangs are going to be involved in is very-cat coded, but there doesn't need to be any deep symbolic reason or furry world building a la beastars for it to be justified.
@RockslideTreeClan You make a lot of good points. I read the comic, but that was years ago. I was trying to look at it from someone who isn't familiar with the comics. For instance, I can understand why it's unclear why Viktor was at the bar. However I find RT's comment about how weird it is that Rocky is scared of Freckle's mom. It establishes the woman she is, especially when you look at Freckle's demeanor. Also, I do think it makes sense that the Savoys turn on the lights before firing, because of how dark it was. It's better to see what you're shooting at.
This video feels *really* nitpicky, to the point it’s almost mean-spirited. I thought the pilot was charming, who cares if the characters are a little superfluous or silly sometimes??
@ yeah I mean the writing isn’t amazing or anything. I just think he’s extremely negative about it, it almost feels personal how much he cares. Anyway, its totally valid to not like the show, so I won’t argue on that
11:21 Mordecai did not hire them. They are his teammates. Mordecai kind of wish that he have a different teammates But his boss want to team up with them
So this had started off as a reply, but it just got way too long that I felt it should've been moved to a proper comment, especially if people wanted to see and properly respond!! I will be explaining the general nit-picks in the video that personally irked me and that I see is commonly being brought up. Apologies if this comes across as rude, my main intention here is to explain since I've noticed the creator has been asking about the nit-picks and I was hoping to provide some insight!! Also fair warning, this is most likely gonna be LONG, especially since I'm dissecting the video as I watch through it. One final thing, I do like Lackadaisy, so that may make me a bit biased. -The whole "Furry-o-meter" gimmick. It seriously came across as just needlessly making fun of furries rather than being anything of worth to the video, especially since you never really explained why the things that raised the meter were bad. Honestly it just hurt watching the meter slowly go up whenever the characters just.. Showed personality or did awkward things. -The fact that the characters knowing "smart words" or mythology needs to be explained. That you just gotta apply some cartoon logic to, yes some of it may not make sense but this is FICTION, something as trivial as this really doesn't need to be shown. There's no harm in just assuming they picked up their knowledge from somewhere either. -The exposition. This is a pilot, some exposition will be needed for those who are unfamiliar with the comic such as myself. And since this was at a similar part in the video, regarding the point of Rocky complaining about his lack of strength, I'm sorry but I thought most people were able to tell that was a lie? Characters CAN lie to get out of doing difficult things, personally I find it quite fun to watch. -The whole familial thing about Rocky and Freckle. That ESPECIALLY felt like a nit-pick, as while yes, it's perfectly fine having an issue with the dialogue, but really just over-analyzing the one line and going on about the point longer than it should've gone for was what felt nit-picky about it. -The issues with the villains(? For a lack of a better term) No, they do not have to be competent villains, that itself is a very common trope. I do very much like your idea of the scene, although it's clearly shown the characters are far more unhinged and dramatic, it wouldn't exactly make sense for them to be smart about things and to be stealthy. -The evil laughing and "psycho" behavior. It's perfectly okay to say you dislike a trope, I understand, but that's really just not a flaw with the pilot itself, more your opinion on the trope. As well, adrenaline can cause the insane laughter you keep bringing up. -"Where did you learn to drive like that??" "I didn't!" As in she didn't learn how to drive LIKE THAT. Yes she knows how to drive, but not "Like that" as Rocky described. -The villain's incompetency. Again, this is fiction, there are protagonists we want to see succeed, and having the villains kill them off right away makes no sense since we are seeing the pilot through them, there would be no plot to follow if they were dead. Because of this, the villains do have to do things that realistically don't make sense, but since this is fiction, they can get away with it. -A lot of your points here to me at least feel like opinions more than criticism or anything objective. There's nothing wrong with stating your opinions, but you do need to make that clear when making a video like this, or it will be interpreted as genuine criticism rather than opinions. -Your dislike of Rocky. Once again, this is an opinion on Rocky. You are perfectly free to dislike a character for whatever reason, although do note that the majority of the people who watched Lackadaisy like Rocky and see him as an affective character. Really just so much of the nit-picky aspects of this comes from the fact that most of your points can be dismissed by the fact that this is fiction, it can get away with unrealistic things and you do need to apply some suspension of disbelief and, as overused as the term is lately, media literacy.
I think your comments are interesting, and I agree with pretty much all of your critiques and suggestions. I'd never heard of Lackadaisy until seeing the hype a bit before the pilot dropped, and the pilot got me to go read the webcomic... which kind of immediately made me no longer like the pilot for the exact issues of tone and narrative focus being so different from the comic. Obviously, a long webcomic has more time to spread things out, but it's truly an ensemble cast that splits its focus *a lot* while still (IMO) remaining coherent around a core plot and themes and being interesting. Rocky is also way less annoying and more likeable in the comic IMO, which apparently is also in the S1 promo stuff (I honestly stopped following the project seeing how the webcomic is basically in indefinite hiatus and the pilot felt like the team was taking the property in a new direction that I liked less).
Since you've done many videos on indie animation, i'm curious on if you'd do a review for Monkey wrench. It currently has 3 episodes (the 4th appears to be nearing completion), and has always been a fun watch. Not without flaws (I remember the voices clearly not blending in with the sound effects and background audio for ep 1 like they were recorded in audio booths), but enjoyable to watch. On second note i'm surprised to see someone call murder drones awful. I'm no fanboy of the show, it's not my thing, hell i was super confused when i decided to check out the last couple episodes but i thought the general consensus was that it was severely flawed, but an acceptable show.
I watched a bit of Monkey Wrench. I think one episode. It also spends a bit too long with its action scenes without setup. It's going for a Cowboy Bebop vibe by the looks of it, but even that show took time to establish characters a bit more. MD's dialogue is absolutely atrocious. It hard for me to even focus on the plot.
Murder Drones is a colossal failure, it had merits in that the art and concept it gave was good but that’s about it. Story had no direction, characters were bland, had changing morals that contradict every other scene or just straight up annoying, and the pacing was abysmal. I wanted to like it but Liam fumbled hard and wasted everyone’s time and resources.
@@WolfgangXP65-67 I'm starting to feel like autistic people are the scapegoat for everything. If it's a reference to Hazbin hotel that is edgy and you put Murder drones in the same category ( I haven't seen it, I'm not saying it's not ), then no, Vivziepop has ADHD. And yes, it can be popular with neurodivergent teens, but this is just a generalization.
i dont know whats up with indie adult animated shows like this or hazbin hotel having characters that talk like they belong in a nick jr cartoon. shows like regular show or gravity falls have characters that talk much more maturely and realistically yet those are aimed at a younger audience. its rlly strange
Tbh, I believe there's no true definition of mature. Mature definitions depend on culture. It can be simple to be complicated. For example, my simple definition of mature is taking care of oneself. Complicated ones are hard since not everyone can fit into that(it's the minority). Remember, people are people, so people will always do what you don't want to do
Regular show & gravity falls were made by studios and a large group of people. Hazbin hotel & lackadaisey were created by a small handful of artists primarily working over the internet and rely on crowd funding for income
@@user-x7dc2pq7nawful analogy for multiple reasons For 1 Pron quite litterally does have direct definition: a form of media that are regarded as emphasizing sensuous or sensational aspects of a subject and stimulating a compulsive interest in their audience For 2 Maturity is something who’s definition is left up for personal interpretation. Maturing simply means to grow/advance whether it be physically, mentally, emotionally, etc For three : “you know what it is when you see it” might not even be a true statement for some
At 10:09 , I think the driver intended to slam the front of his car into Rocky's body at high speed using the vehicle's force . So it was really the big guy turn to try to kill rocky in his own way. Which is why the lady didn't shoot at rocky.
I agree with most of what you were saying, but I don't think the "furry-o-meter" is a particularly productive way of looking at things. These writing tropes are definitely not limited to furry content, but rather are symptomatic of a lot of young writers with OCs who either don't have a story or whose story isn't fully defined. I feel like labelling things you don't like as "furry" things rather than common writing problems is unhelpful to non-furries who have these problems and unfair to furries who don't have these problems.
Yes. Thank you. I thought there was something wrong with me, I felt guilty for not liking the pilot. I love the beautiful animation, cinematography and the prohibition era setting, but I really didn't like the characters, especially Rocky. It's like you're supposed to be the look out, and you're just announcing your presence to the world, the others should have told him "you're gonna blow our cover, knock it off. (take the violin away) make yourself useful and be a lookout" but they're so passive. And since you mentioned it, they should've opened it before they got to the car, I didn't think about that, but that was because I only watched it once, I wasn't interested in watching it again. And I usually like the cartoony comic relief character, but I found Rocky so annoying, when he's cackling like a maniac and causing so much trouble. The pilot is beautiful, but the script could've used another draft, someone should've looked over it. The characters just seemed so incompetent, and it just seems like the creator really loved their OC's and wanted to show them off, "this one is funny and cool, and he's crazy" "she's a bad guy and she's also crazy", "he's quiet and sweet, but he is also crazy" "this guy is a bartender but he's big and tough", now that you mentioned it he should've been the muscle and went on the mission, because they blew the mission thanks to Rocky. I admire all the hard work that went into the pilot, they did an amazing job, it looks beautiful, but they characters are so incompetent and there is a lot of scenes where they waste time. It could've been a short demo proof of concept thing. I hope they can improve, I want indie animation to succeed and we need original ideas without meddling from big studios. But I think the script could've used another draft.
I agree with your take 100% I thought i was crazy for not liking it, too. I loved the animation and setting! But the characters were too unlikeable for me. I agree with the video that Freckle should’ve been the focus and it might’ve helped give these psychopaths some humanity😂
This just sounds like you're complaining about having so many questions when you haven't been looking for answers. You would know why Rocky is crazy if you read the comics and saw that he had a brain injury. You would know why Viktor isn't part of the gang of you read the comics and saw that his knees don't bend. You would know why Nico and serafine are crazy if you read the comics and saw that they were raised by a tribe that practices voodoo Magic. And like 80% of your questions have answers in the comics. Looking at the amount of time you put into making this video, you could have spent like 6 hours reading all of the comics and know why it is like it is. I know that i sound like an over protective fan but if you are gonna put the pilot under a microscope like this it just doesn't make sence why you didn't read the comics.
@@RoamingTrend no, but like… his injuries were before even the pilot started. Either way, Viktor doing the gig would just be weird if they already knew he’s injured. And it would still be weird to bring up an information that everyone knew in the bar scene.
Ngl i didn't understand what plot even was so I had to read the first few chapters of the comic. This doesn't feel like a first episode - the first comic had a serviceable intro to the plot/series. It feels like a proof of concept for making a whole season based on something that would happen a few episodes in. As a pilot, it fails. However, I'm not fully sure it was meant to be a complete introduction to the series.
That was what I got out of it. I don't know why you would take the time to establish characters and relationship better. Felt like there was enough time.
It felt more akin to showing off the characters you're going to get to know rather than a real introduction/storyline. Which isn't a bad thing, it gives them some mystery, rocky though has always been a sort of narrator insert while everyone else has a pretty good role in the events of the story.
@@Jane-ow7sr that doesn't make sense for new viewers like me. You need to have at least SOME exposition. I didn't even know Lacksadaisy was the name of some gang until I read the comments.
@@youwhat. Because it's technically not. Lackadaisy is just the name of the diner/speakeasy, Not a gang gangs don't base themselves on the establishment they occupy, they base it off of the group itself.
Sorry but I can’t agree with what your saying. It’s a pilot not a movie it’s not supposed to show a full complete story with a beginning a middle and an end it’s supposed to show parts of the story whilst leaving thing open for more so that you want to see more. The pilot is the middle of the story. And to say it has bad righting just for doing what a pilot is for just isn’t right. So basically the pilot is for showing the characters and what there like where as the actual show and mini episodes are going to focus more on the actual story.
I’m gonna add in my options as I watch because yes! In my opinion the intro was good, since that’s just Rocky being Rocky, he’s dramatic and loving poems and stuff even at the most unlikely times. And I like how they used a poem from the actual comic. The cousin thing was true and Rocky had a time when they were younger since they lived together with Freckles mom, but that won’t make much sense for the people who didn’t read the comics. Ivy is like 17-19 or something, Rocky just being Rocky again so silly, but honestly the comment Rocky made about Icy and Freckle and the cousin comment but again it was kinda random for the people who didn’t read the comic. The other gang wasn’t really competent not gonna like, beside Mordecai. The other two just love fun and killing people. To be honest I do kinda wish they explained why Freckle was crazy as well as Rocky, but I’m sure we’ll eventually get an explanation. I hope anyway.. Mordecai is their coworker, I understand your frustration for Mordecai’s character, he was definitely a more better in the comic than the pilot. No lack of crazy is definitely true, the cast is just a little coocoo.. Rocky is annoying but that’s definitely just his character, just a crazy cat I suppose. Not sure what the plot is gonna be but what the trailer for season 1 seemed to be about is Rocky’s past and such, so it makes sense why Rocky is the main character, he needs to be fleshed out more than he is in the manga. Viktor isn’t a rum runner anymore due to him being old and his knees are bad, plus he was shot in the comic so he probably can’t work too hard for now. Again not good for the non comic readers, so it kinda sucks for them. I’m sure the first season will be way better than the pilot in many ways, it’s more fleshed out and shows Rocky from the past and why he’s the way he is, I hope it shows more of his family. Rocky is desperate to find a place to fit in a place to stay, so it makes sense why he’s the way he is. I feel so sigma 🐱
I really hate that defense of "Oh its just that character being that character I suppose". Like there is a time a place for that, him doing a random thing when they are suppose to be on a hush hush mission is not being quirky, or endearing, its being dumb. And the explosive excavator thing really cemented his being dumb character for me. Its okay to full meltdown if it suppose to help accomplish something but it did not Hell it even put more danger into an already hectic situation.
@@mrweaseljam you shouldnt have to read the comic for a show, and i say that as someone who has read the comic. The primary goal is for it to stand on its own two feet without needing supplemental material
Yeah, they're cousins. I know you didn't read the comic fully. When it comes to taking information from Rocky. It's a toss off. Like flipping a coin. You'll either get heads or tails. Heads: You'll realize is he insane. Tails: You'll realize he actually smart, but something went wrong in his creation.
I thought Lackadaisy was beautiful to look at, but when you said the word "indulgent" - that neatly describes SO MANY of my issues with the story and humor! The story seemed like a low priority (if at all on the writer's radar). It was like a passionate collector showing us all their favorite cat toy characters talking non-stop about why they're each "so special and funny". It felt very immature, in-spite of it obviously being for older viewers. I used to read the comics and again, while beautiful - the story never made a lot of sense to me. It seemed to become very complex series of betrayals and alliances like a soap opera... but I was really only interested in looking at the cute cat artwork.
You know, I really appreciate that you went the extra mile to integrate your fursona into the footage of the episode like where you use a yellow shield to deflect the bullets from freckles, that's very amusing, does kind of mess with the 4th wall though.
There are 3 types of shows 1. ones push to make you love it 2. The ones made from emotional passion which is this 3. The one made from a solid logical thought out idea
Good analysis. Yeah, art and aniamtion are fine, but the pilot has no story substance. Didn´t knew that there is a season coming, because the pilot didn´t awoke any interest to stay updated, since I have had to assume that the "story beats would remain the same. Suggestion for a nice analysis vid: Daria Cohen`s "Vampair" series?
I came across your channel and decided to watch. Not into these kind of animations, I like more anime seinin stuff. However your critiques drew me in as a creator and series creator hopeful. I love how you boil down writing, themes, and character arcs in a consice way. I'd hire you as a writing revisionist if I had the resources haha Your videos remind me of a slightly long and repetitive video, but relevant nonetheless, about millennial writing. I notice a lot of writers and creators are stuck in their bubbles, refuse to see outside of a California like world, and are always trying to be quirky, funny, but cool and relatable to the kids. Many don't study or view classic material older than 20 years ago. It shows. You mentioned in another video about writing what you know or study what you want to write about. This is a major issue in modern entertainment and instead are focused on graphical, and relatable content that offends no one. It comes out a bit pedantic and bland. Seriously taking notes on your criticisms. Thanks man. You are awesome
Pretty nice video!. Coming from someone who worked on the pilot, this holes on the main story (or sequences going through the film) were really concerning from a personal point. Story really felt empty and characters were really hard to understand the first time I watched the full animatic (which I needed to accomplish my tasks in production). I didn't got if there was a story to tell exactly, because after all, almost all the short film was only pure action sequences and some nibbles of references to the comic. I had to read some parts of the comic itself to had a better understanding of everything... and to give the proper importance to this characters, and to keep up with a good quality work. And finally, from what I understood from the production and direction, and the team in general, it was that the main objective of this short film was more as gift to all the fans of the comic that were supporting the comic through many years, and that sounds pretty sweet. But the function of this film as a pilot with it's own "story", was something I was still questioning multiple times during my time on production. It could be better, but still understandable from a production perspective. - Anon.
If true, thanks for sharing. Once again, I am left questioning why one wouldn't try to make a complete story even if it's something for the fans. Surely if the writing of the comics is so good, that shouldn't have been a problem. The mini episodes seem to work better than the pilot.
@@RoamingTrend From what I heard (and I personally understand, not a 100% fact) from the direction crew myself in multiple voice chats, this was fully intended when they were crafting the main script for this short film. The intention was more emphasized in showcasing the attitude coming from these characters specifically and making refer multiple small parts from the main comic story. Not trying to justify it, but yeah... the comic is way more rich story wise and could be more noticeable in the pilot.
Jesus Christ, I cannot watch this- I thought MY videos were obnoxiously knit-picky. Seriously, It’s like this dude watched like, 2 CinemaSins videos, then just got up and said, “LOL THATS EASY I CAN DO THAT”.
@BlackLightJack. only one I could probably call a nitpick might be the spaghetti arms bit. But it highlights the probably of lack of attention to detail. Characters say one thing and contradict it in the next scene. Rocky recites complex poems but can't read a name. He pretends to be weak, but it is stronger than the muscle of the team. What characters say or do matter, and if you are making any show or pilot, you need to pay attention to what is important to establish and what isn't. You may be a fan of the comic and you don't need to know the lore behind these characters, but other people do and the show paints a more inconcise picture of these characters, leaving them with nothing but spectacle by the end.
How can you make an entire video complaining about something you have done hardly any research on? Read the comic, it explains everything! Plus, it a cartoon, a lot of the content just isn't that deep. But I guess complaining about something that is commonly enjoyed is good clickbait.
Seee i disagree that freckle should've been the protag because he is so timid.its would have been the hazbin situation where he's okay but he doesnt have anything going on as opposed to rocky's eccentric nature.better loud and shallow than deep and boring
All the critism comes from either not knowing the original story from the comic or it's characters and treating the pilot like it's supposed to fulfill all the story needs from a whole season. While also suggesting changes that completely disrespect the original story and would require completely scrapping any semblance of familiarity with the comic's storyline. It seems that you're treating the pilot like a "episode 1". And that is not what a pilot is, or what purpose it's meant to serve. A pilot is meant to represent what a "common" episode of a series would look like, which can also include picking up the story with the assumption that many things are already stablished. This whole video was kinda upsetting to watch.
So what about pilots that do manage to effectively establish characters and have a cohesive and complete narrative within the pilot? (And when I say complete narrative, I don't mean the entire comic, just within the episode. What are we as the audience meant to get out of this beyond surface level spectacle?) Unless you are Genndy Tartakovsky, you need to do more in your pilot than show how pretty it will look. You have to prove you can tell a satisfying story within the episode. I don't know why we abandoned the importance of narrative in pilots?
I don’t see Rocky from the pilot and from the trailer as different characters personally, I see it as seeing him with a whole other side to him. But that’s just my opinion.
Subbed for your Hazbin review but I feel as if the quality of this review is a little weaker. I can't help but think that, while you do point out perfectly logical inconsistencies, that many of your suggestions would strip the Lackadaisy pilot and the story it's presenting of much of its flair and personality. Yeah, Mordecai could've shot them all instantly... but then what? Would we have gotten that chase scene? Would we have had a story at all? Would 3 less seconds of Rocky's poem make that much of a difference? Would you really have a completely different opinion on whether the pilot effectively communicated the narrative if Rocky held the coffin with two hands instead of one? Should we as an audience really want an animated show that aggressively clings to sterile, real-world logic? Your term "furry writing" doesn't really mean anything to me and honestly just seems a little insecure, because what you're describing are pretty common tropes that can either be used effectively or ineffectively. So, is the point of this video to convince me the pilot is written poorly, or to CinemaSins all the life out of it? I do appreciate you diving into what could be done differently (thought that was done rly effectively in your Hazbin video) but the alternatives you offer here personally don't convince me there's anything wrong with the writing tbh I apologize if my frankness is unwelcome, but you seem engaged with your audience so I thought I'd share my thoughts! Would love to see future videos focus more on how certain tropes can be played more effectively, rather than the CinemaSins angle, since it seems like you have some good instincts!!
LMAO the cope through this comments is absolutely insane. I don't think this is one of his weaker videos, more so that because this video criticizes and goes neck deep into a more beloved and less offensive IP people take it has being nitpicky. It might not be as thorough as the Hazbin hotel one but that's because dudes reviewing a pilot, not an entire animated series. If you were paying attention to his nitpicks, you would remember that he said that Mordecai needs to be an EFFECTIVE villain in order to actually be threatening to get the plot going. And that involves action, not words. Not to mention the dude literally offered a way to have Mordecai be threatening and still have the chase scene. Also, when it comes to a writing a script, timing is EVERYTHING. Theres no point in wasting time with Rocky reciting a poem when you could be actually introducing your story in a pilot. A lot of these comments complaining about his nitpicks also seem to miss the parts where he explains why he makes those nitpicks in the first place AND offers multiple ways to fix things. That's why dude sets the furry meter because he literally says that this is very common in furry comics, not that stories with furries in it are bad. If anything I'd say this video is lot less mean spirited than his Hazbin one too. But I guess a lot of people mistake "original indie project" for "exempt from any criticism" so I suppose we got a long way to go when it comes to media literacy and critical thinking skills.
I’m sorry, but I cannot agree that has the writing of modern Disney😂😂😂😂😂 Sorry pal, but I really can’t agree with you on that one. If you’d read enough of the comic the characters actions would make a lot more sense in this pilots, it will make more sense as future episodes come out, you’ve got to be patient in order for the story to fully come out and find out everything.
A lot of people are already talking about the points you made, but really I just want to approach this holistically. What are you trying to accomplish here? I struggled to get to the ten minute mark of your video and so far my only reward has been a series of arbitrary complaints disguised as critiques. -"The creators should establish where Rocky got his knowledge because it doesn't make sense for him to be well-spoken in one segment but scatter-brained in another!" Because people can have conflicting traits within them IRL. Would the episode have been improved with a "Han what? Who are your people?"-level backstory thrown in? -"If the gig is so important, why did they hire these three to do it when they aren’t competent at it?” An excellent question which might have an interesting answer. -"Why don't the antagonists just do the most logical thing and have them step away from the car and then execute them?" People don't always do the most strategic move. -And that doesn't even get into "Well why aren't Rocky and Freckle brothers instead of cousins, that would shave off a line or two of dialogue!" It's the equivalent of looking at a pine tree and saying "Well it's not shaped like a maple, therefore it's objectively a bad tree." Really I could split hairs over your critiques all day but again, I want to step back and measure what you're even trying to do here. Look, I'm not even saying that you have to like Lackadaisy, or that the pilot is flawless. I do think the pilot is a tad on the slight side myself. But what you've done here is not media criticism. What you've accomplished is the Critical Drinker/EFAP style performative 'criticism' which involves attempting to prove you're smarter than a chosen piece of media. And I can tell that's your goal because of your community post. "One day, people will dread seeing me comment on their videos." You're not interested in provoking any reflection or discussion about the show, you're searching for clout. I could sit here in your comments and debate the particulars of your arguments back and forth, but again your end goal isn't to evaluate media. It's to build a platform of cynicism. And the only dread you'll end up inspiring is an eyeroll. I urge you, really take a look at what you're doing and ask if that's what you want to build for yourself. If it is I can't help you. But if you really want to learn to criticize media, it's not too late to course correct.
1. They can have conflicting traits, not conflicting knowledge. One cannot recite Shakespeare without reading or hearing Shakespeare first, no matter how quirky they are. Knowledge is gathered trait. It's hard to gather knowledge and still be unable to read. Not impossible, but it's complicated. Why add that complication to your story where you don't have time to add contradictory ideas. 2. Would've been nice to know, chip off some of the useless poem and establish it. 3.They would if you are establishing an intelligent and pragmatic character like Mordecai. If it was just Serafine and Nico, I wouldn't have a problem. 4. Why even mention their familial relationship in this pilot if it has no relevance to the story? While I don't think brother would be any better in this scenario, at least it would offer a bit more speculation than cousins What I hate is inefficient storytelling. This pilot is establishing wrong and contradictory things and it simply doesn't have the time to do. If they had a little arc where at least one character starts one way and learns something in the end, It would've been a significant improvement. But why waste time on that when we can have car chases, explosions and marvel-like humor? Lackadaisy follows the same pattern as many shows where the creators aren't trying to tell a story, they are trying to show off how cool or wacky their characters are. Other pilots can do both, so why couldn't this one? While it's not exclusive to furry content, it stands out there most, because it's heavily focused on "Check out my fursona" mentality. Even if Rocky isn't Tracy's fusona, it sure as hell feels like it is. If you look at pilots like "Tales From Scorchwater Valley" or "Ramshackle" you'll see what actual character development looks like, something very lacking in Lackadaisy. I appreciate your preaching and tone policing and I do my best to keep a fairly light and reasonable tone. I praise what I think is good, critique what I think is bad and offer advice on what I would've done in these situation. That's more than many youtube critics do. Sometimes it can appear harsher, sometimes it's not harsh enough, but the balance between informative and entertaining is tough to figure out, even for me. Yes, I can admit that maybe going scene for scene was indulgent on my part and the video would've been stronger by simply addressing the flaws themselves, but I think the reception from the fandom would've been the same. And don't worry, you can still enjoy your pscyho cat animation. It's okay. There is a lot to enjoy as I said, but please don't use it as a example for good writing, because I think even you would agree that it isn't the best one. Thanks, and I'll see you around.
"If the gig is so important, why did they hire these three to do it when they aren’t competent at it?” An excellent question which might have an interesting answer. Why should I assume there is an interesting answer when the writing is all surface level?
Im back again :o and this time with some criticism like most comments do I don't find anything wrong with Rocky being the "main character" cause he is fun and also has potential to grow And another thing is...this is a pilot You can judge some things yes and develop opinions, but you can't say for sure that this is how the show is going to be like (*cough* hasbin- *cough* helluva boss-) And you don't have to like the pilot, I do but still have some criticism, the problem is that the video kind of became really nit picky and the "furry" stuff is uh...well they just seemed like jokes :p Not bad video tho
Thanks, I appreciate it. Still trying to find the balance between analysis and humor and sometimes it doesn't land. I think I spent too much time on analyzing it scene by scene, so it appears more nitpicky than I anticipated, but the overall points are still there.
You might consider checking out the pilot cartoon reality bytes. It's more slapstick focused, but it has surprisingly great sound design and plot structure to establish it's characters
I just assumed since they are protecting their turf, right? I mean, that's kind of the problem when I don't know why the villains are even there or care.
@RoamingTrend if you consider a grieving woman reminiscing to a memorial of her dead husband a sign of that person being crazy, you might just not experience enough human interaction my man
These videos have been very helpful for the pilot me and the rest of the crew are working on. Heck one of the first thing me and let’s call them F for privacy sake talked about during the very beginning of the rewrite was the writing of the modern day animation industry and our frustrations with it. And F and our other writer have been doing a fantastic job doing their research into both writing and the topics we want to cover. And how one would portray them in a series or movie basically what this is saying is keep making these videos they are making a difference.
I am quite a fan of Lackadaisy, but also agree the pilot didn’t have the most solid writing. But like you said, later episodes seem to hold more promise for the writing of the story, likely because they’ll have a longer frame of time to tell it. Even if it doesn’t, I’ll still watch it and love it, but it’d be nice to see
I've been working on a "Furry" story/book for several years now, having a 1st draft done and nothing else and that's mainly because of that it the story itself needs a MAJOR overhaul. Characters weren't compelling at all, the main character sucked and wasn't relatable or likeable, and a lot of choices that were from the first draft didn't make sense and needed to be changed. Though this may seem random I'm glad you made your video and hope that I'm able to use it to help out with my own writing as I continue to revamp and overhaul the story (gonna see about tackling it again starting next month)
Is Mordecai voiced by ProZD? Because I think he’s rough here. But yeah I agree, I kinda hate the annoying psycho character trope that’s inundating the medium.
literally all your questions would be answered if your read the comic. I feel like if your going to criticize a peice of media at least KNOW the media. your sugesting changes to the story or character that would directly hinder what the author is trying to do. lackadaisy especially because not only was the pilot never originally intended to be a pilot. another thing is- vaugness is lackadaisys biggest plot device. we are thrown into a world with all these characters at their lowest point, and as plot develops we r slowly filled in on how all of them r connected, how they got to where they are, and above all who is involved in the murder of atlas may. its an extremely engaging and ill never forget how invested i was on my first read.
I don't know how other pilots and media manage to tell a good story without needed the audience to read external media? In fact, I'd argue your knowledge of the comic may hinder your view to analyze what is actually shown on screen. I can also see the inconsistency on the fans, because I keep hearing two contradictory ideas: 1) This is a pilot so it doesn't need a story. It needs to give you a notion of what the show would be about. 2) This was not intended to be a pilot, it was meant to be an animation for the fans who are familiar with the story Unfortunately both are cope. All I have to go by is what the pilot is telling me, and while other pilots take care to quickly establish who the characters and what that motivates them, Lackadaisy seems to think it has a free pass. Sorry, not how it works.
@ mabye my veiwing of the pilot is hinderd- but i think lackadaisy does show the basics of the plot- a failing speakeasy during the 1920s prohibition trying to regain their former glory while facing competition from their competitors. About not needing to rely on external media. your reveiw is about the pitfalls of furry wrighting in lackadaisy. you say all you have to go by is the pilot- but lackadaisy is a comic series and has been since 2006. reading the comic isnt you needing outside media- the comic IS the media. if your were reveiwing just the pilot i would understand but it seems you wanted to give a critique of lackadaisy as a peice of media overall. if you want to reveiw lacladaisy.. lackadaisy is a comic series. even if your were just reveiwing the pilot- your asking questions that can be expected to be answered in the show. im not saying lackadaisy is perfect ofc. for one i can agree that the pilot dose a bad job at showing the characters motives. but i just feel like this reveiw is alot of questions framed as critisisms- the same questions that had me exited to go and read the comic for the first time.
the below was written right before RT talked about the comics,shorts etc. , so take it with some or a bucket of salt. I won't delete the below so this can show my thoughts while i watched this. Again, do not take this as gospel/ hard-critique, just as a thought-flow. "'Minor'" exposition (spoilers for comics, shorts): Rocky and the Poem: Poem is in the Comic, and is mostly to show that he is talented in Rhymes and singing. (him Falling off the bridge into the patch of grass, just like the shorts/trailer of Rocky getting stuck on Barbed Wire for Cattle when jumping off a train for his stop, getting his shoulders dislocated as a child during an experiment with Freckle (short), or in the comic.... no i will not spoil most of that, just know he'll bleed in one part(s)) Rocky saying he has "Spagetti-arms": it's an excuse to not dig. Mordecai: the reason he is there, is bc he formaly worked with the Lackadaisy crew (see short about Ivy's childhood, when her father went to sell his car. (feat. Mordecai, Victor, etc.)) Freckle as the lead: well, he did fail the exam-thing to become a cop (hence his compotence with guns (see comic, certain chapter)), so I can see why youl'd see Freckle as more of a potential Protagonist. "Why isn't Victor doing the Digging and hauling of the booze?" or sth along those lines: War vet, lost his eye due to sth else if i remember correctly, his health isn't at it's best as it was during Lackadaisy's prime, so he is behind the counter now. (I believe it was due to some scuffle with other gangs? might be wrong here though). "Mitzy get's a ray of hope": more so reminising the old days, before she lost her husband (see Ivy-flashback-short for a pinch of what her husband was like) "Rocky is the main character": Imo it's more-so Ivy, with her best friends. Ivy also works day shifts at Lackadaisy, and is alr familiar with most of the staff and the establishment, not as much as Mitzy, duh, but still on a decent lvl. To me the premis is still "how will the old Run-down Speak-easy rise up again, after Mitzy's husbands death?"
I agree with you 100%. Id heard so much hype over this show I found myself questioning it through the whole pilot. Theres nothing to latch onto. There is no way to figure out what these cats are doing in the middle of the night etc the focus is way too heavy on spectacle and visual splendor. Its gorgeous. But as usual, just because we are a good artist doesnt also make us a great writer too. Those two traits are rarely found in the same person
> There is no way to figure out what these cats are doing in the middle of the night Does everything need to be spilled out explicitly? It's 1920s and they've digging out a crate full of booze out of the ground. It's not hard to put 2 and 2 together even if you don't know anything about the comic.
Look i don't want to argue but you got SO many things wrong here, if you didn’t read the WHOLE comic it's clear you don't Undearstand what's happening here and why the story is like that & not how you would think it is. Also the Character's are not trying to be edgy, i feel like people just can't stand a Character just having a differently personality. I also would like to say more but i aint writing all that💔 EDIT: yea but not to be a hater I actually agree a little on Freckle beeing the Main Character, it sounds interesting
you know it'd be interesting to see the main character's degeneration from episode one to how he is in the pilot, then to see how that either spirals down into miserable chaos, or a climb to redemption, maybe both split between the characters
It’s primarily holding up on having a furry audience. Why then should it avoid ‘furry’ writing? Superficial kisch is one of the hallmarks of furry design an is part of the reason why furry art is such a liberating medium for escapism. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
Yeah.. It would have been better to make some things tighter. Like Freckle lifting the sarcofagus with one hand while Rocky has to use two (Although we could make a joke that Freckle is just that carefull of a kid that it looks like Rocky is stronger than him, but suddenly when he releases a hand, the coffin falls down fora moment, and then we see Rocky gritting his teeth and a shake fomr his arms, while Freckle just breethes in and puffs his chest, to showcase the difference between the two in their job to prevents the coffin from falling down). Making Freckle more of an Berserk in latency rather than a cackling maniac (rage induece Maniacs are under represented. And heck, in retrospect it could give him more depht) and of course, Making Mordecai to shoot the cargo while the trio were going to Wick´s Mine, making Rocky to break focus on his wrestle with Ivy, and ultimatly making th ecar spin and crash into the shack. Thus giving a good reason to cause Rocky to enter his psycho state. P: Ugghh... What now, great leader? R: ... hehehe.. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! *gets out* P: well... what about you the- F: I´M FINE!!! (thus giving more reason why Ivy is good for him, she is the water of life to cool him down. Heck, I could make him apologize as he tries to explain why he acted the way he is, to be calmed down by Ivy in the moment. F: Sorry! Sorry... I just have a fire.. a Burning, HOT fire that- P: It´s okay Freckle, we´re both in one piece, and that´s what matters. F: Thank you... buut, I-I mean there´s a fire in the Engine chamber! And so we focus on him having some self shame as she gets out, implying this isn´t the first time he gets those outbursts.) But yeah, Mordecai should have more actions to show that he is the only competent, like that time that I mention where the disposed the trio from the Booze cargo, and most importantly, when he loses the patience on Seraphine and Nico for ruining the job. They were suposed to get the cargo, but if it wasn´t for him, the Lackadaisy crw would have got it, meanwhile, all they did was to making things complicated with their own reckless behavior. And then, have Seraphine to talk back at Mordecai for his inaction to kill Pepper, since he had two chances to do it (I will include a previous scene where he was poinitng at Ivy, and later on he aimed at Rocky and Freckle) but he didn´t. S: Well tell me, have you babysit that girl while you *served* to that haughty hag? M: That is none of your concern, *Witch.* S: Hmmmm... Say Nico, who is the liability here? two unorthodox professionals? Or some nostalgic suit, who gets *sentimental for old times*? N: Heh... Let him find out, he´s the smart one, isn´t it? And later on, on his call with Asa, it coudl be explained. M: And they double deal with the Stragglers of Lackaisy of all things.. They´re Clumsy and likely to call atention.. And if may say it, my.. current partners are not making this easy to me. A: What about the Savvoy? Are they too... "Clumsy" and "Likely to call atention" for you, you muddy kid? *Heheheheehehe* M: (Mordecai makes a face of annoyance at the laughter of his boss) But take this in consideration, Mr Sweet. With the Feds in town- A: Exactly. Recently they´ve been catching our guys, one by one. These dogs are sticking their noses so deep that I´ve been running low of personale. So You will have what I can get to you. And figure out how to deal with ´em... And so... for now, that´s whay I can say for now.
Yeah, I feel like it's a bit unfair to imply that Digital Circus is all spectacle with no story. And it's super unfair to put it with Hazbin Hotel and Murder Drones. It's certainly goofy yes, but it does have a story to tell. And characters do get their own moments for them to develop. To be honest I feel it strikes a pretty good balance with comedy and serious moments.
While your critique is good for the pilot in a vacuum, as someone who read the comics, it's pretty frustrating to see all the points that would have been negated by them. The pilot's plot is, in my opinion, far worse than the comics, and your view of the work would greatly improve if you were to read them. Based on that, I'll list my criticisms to this video. 0:58 - Tracy Butler is not a Furry and, while having anthropomorphic animals, the comic lacks the fandom culture and special "weird" qualities that make it "Furry". It's just a comic about cats. 2:30 - While Tracy acknowledges her indulgence in unnecessary poetry and lyricism in footnotes, it is important that it is one of Rocky's main defining features. Along the comics there are many references towards his affinity for spontaneous and elaborate rhyming, and, given his relatively stable family, it wouldn't be unfitting for him to have had access to English literature. Also, Rocky isn't just an "idiot", he is (in words of the author) a "shining blue star of idiotic brilliance, or brilliant idiocy", to describe the duality in culture and silliness in his character, and "Hapfamschfeel" isn't just a long word, but one exotic for an English speaker, making it reasonable even for someone literate in English to have trouble reading and/or pronouncing it. 8:00 - Many of the things you qualify as "ineffective" are there because of the chaotic and laid-back personality of the Savoy siblings, making it, in my opinion, perfectly fitting, not to mention Mordecai calling out on these behaviour. 9:40 - Rocky is the driver, and Calvin also knows how to drive. Ivy took the car because the other ones where on the floor getting shot at. Also, making her say she didn't get taught how to drive wouldn't make things better, as someone who knows how to drive doesn't drive ~600m in reverse. 10:20 - They don't shoot because they don't just want to win, they want to "have fun". While the comics gave a more realistic depiction of them being lethal AND unhinged, the pilot's version stablishes a coherent behaviour with them, in many if not all occasions, choosing thrill over effectivity, to better contrast with Mordecai's character and personality. 11:40 - I see it as the main point in the dynamic betweem Mordecai and the siblings. Due to their different approaches, they can't get their work done, as they go different ways instead of cooperating, while the Lackadaisy crew are deeply invested in each other. 12:30 - the point of having the car and shootout as the introduction to the Marigold crew is to stablish the siblings' volatile and sudden nature. Showing them would undermine the surprise and alienate the viewer from the characters. 12:50 - If we find out, what's the point of this criticism? I feel this is just adding words without meaning. 13:00 - Small detail on my part: In the time the story is in, aiming a pistol with both hands was almost, if not completely unheard of. Showing Mordecai aiming with one hand would be more accurate, but him aiming two handed may be a way of showing marksmanship to a modern spectator, as it is the standard way in most modern armies and law forces. 15:20 - Rocky isn't the protagonist. If you watch it thinking he is, he is not a good protagonist. All the points you make afterwards are solved with this in mind. 18:15 - It's explained in the comics that Rocky's smile is inherently unnerving and he isn't fit at all to deal with people. 19:30 - That is not hope, it's nostalgia, which is expressed with her dead husband being there. 20:05 - It isn't meant to be satisfying. It expresses decadence, which is the point of all the storyline. Overall, most issues stem from the "pilot" being meant for people who read the comic. It doesn't show much plot strength, because it's just the treat of seeing the comic characters moving. While all of this is valid criticism and it doesn't really hold up as a pilot, I found some of your arguments to be unnecessary, redundant or in bad faith. You can correct my points if you want, but I feel all of this is you trying to link lackadaisy to your idea of "furry writing", which, although can be real criticism and may be present due to external writing, feels kinda forced in a piece not linked in the slightest to the furry fandom. If you read all of this, thank you anyway, and I hope for a response. Edit: After thinking about it for a while, I feel that your idea of "furry writing" leaves a lot to be desired. Your 3 points (Cool/Quirky OCs, Unfunny gags and Edginess) are mostly found within general fandom/internet culture, and were a main staple of the Furry Fandom mostly in the 2000s and early 2010s. It doesn't help that you give weird examples, as for them all except one being comedy strips and the fucking zootopia abortion comic. Maybe it doesn't really help that most furry comics are either explicit or short gags, but it would be dishonest to leave out the hundreds of visual novels that now compose the greatest part of literary work in the furry fandom. It is a shame that I'm note one for VNs, as I wouldn't be able to cite any of them, but I'm pretty sure if you ask furries for good literary material from the fandom, they won't point you to a 4 panel strip. As for the criticizing of the humour in the fandom, I think you aren't taking into account the deeply neurodivergent nature of the fandom, as it is a main component of it's comedy culture, and, being an outsider, it can come off as just "bad writing".
I vote reading the source material rather than watching the pilot for the full context. It gives more information to you if you have a full picture. It's not a critique, not a genuine thing. I'd love to see
I love this guy! He has a way of making it a bit more obvious that he is developing a style for his videos. Even if I don't agree with some of the criticism, everything here is a valid. Keep doing what you're doing man.
While this guy has some criticism, 80% of this video just seems to be nitpicks, or just very subjective. Remember, Lackadaisy as of now is just a pilot, and suffers no more, if not less problems than most of the big indie animation pilots, and is the best looking visually in my opinion. Also, I would recommend the comics. They're neat. P.S. nah, this guy a furry. he ain't fooling anyone.
Honestly yeah since the beginning i disliked Lackadaisy, it was quite literally lacking substance in the story and the style was pushing the quality forward, i really hope the writing gets better for the full scope
One of the funny things is, the biggest reason cats were used instead of humans is because the artist wanted to have more expressive faces, and with the cats, the wider grins and bigger eyes felt more natural than if they'd been on human characters.
That's normally why anthro characters are used, yeah.
Almost as if the author and illustrator is a *cat lady* or something.
@TheSutanian That too. XD I forgot the wall of cats at the end of the episode.
@@RoamingTrend I think there's some validity to it, too. I mean, the expressions in Lackidaisy are great; the malicious grin Rocky gives when he sees who owns the Quarry, Freckle's drastic shift from meek and calm to gun-mad triggerman; I feel like both would be less expressive on a human character; or at least wouldn't have that same oomph.
@@RoamingTrendalso it does not let which that belong race or he is stereotypes of race skin colour
Here's the thing that most people don't know. The Lackadaisy "Pilot" wasn't originally meant to be a pilot at all. During the initial campaign and production, it was billed as a "short film" meant specifically for Lackadaisy fans. Tracy and her team never had any ambitions to make it a full-blown animated series yet. Therefore, the "pilot" isn't actually a pilot. Its not that the team behind LD don't know how to write- its that they were writing for a contained short-film with a focus on existing fans, not an animated pilot with broad appeal that would lead to a full series.
Somewhere along the way, they decided to make it a pilot instead to see how it would perform as such, but that was very late into development. Yeah, its pretty sloppy to do it that way, but I feel like the end product is still good enough to be called a successful pilot overall. This is coming from someone who didn't read the comic before watching it, either. I honestly had no problems figuring out what was going on. However, I think this often overlooked fact would explain many of the criticisms stated in this video.
And, it should also get people more excited for the actual first season, where its clear that they're adapting the comic from the beginning and going into much more detail. The first season seems to have a much better handle on things from the start, as, y'know, they're developing it as an actual series and not just an ad-hoc pilot. After reading the comic, I can say that if they pull this off, no one is going to have much to complain about anymore!
@@calebtherandom8017 Absolutely!
They decided to make a full pilot when the crowdfunding got off the rails, and the part about the fan service thing is completely right, since it explore heavily the comic's dynamics and characteristics.
Just count the amount of reference to the comics this pilot has, and you immediately understand why it was made the way it is
The original pilot would only include the start until the chase scene, for as much as I could infer from back-in-the-day information.
@@voicedjohn Yeah admittedly it probably wasn't the best way to go about things, but honestly enough people love it (me included) and feel like it was successful despite those factors. $2 mil in kickstarter money for a first season compared to the $300k for the pilot is proof enough of that!
@@TheMadMadman I Love the comics, and I Love the pilot so...
Yeah, it worked!
😐👍
Expository dialogue doesn’t have to be literal…”noodle arms” was clearly a joke, Rocky was just avoiding doing work because he prefers to goof off on his violin and wax poetic, in his own stylized world of artistic musings.
Also, some people can pick up large vocabularies simply via an interest in literature. And still struggle to pronounce names. All without a college education, too.
And for the “furry” cringe…most of these characteristics are just cartoonish things, which a lot of furries have adapted into their own characters, sure, but being bumbling and goofy and exaggerated is a common cartoon trope to employ.
Also, “Freckles is the muscle” seems to be a joke at first, but then we realize later that he is literally the dude ya give a gun to. It’s kinda a double back joke.
I find lackadaisy a great show,i like the way Tracy is able to make mature jokes without using excessive swearing,the animation also reminds me of old disney's animation along "cats don't dance",the best example of a show that be seen by everybody regardless of age
(but hey,it's just my opinion)
I love it, too. The amount of visual storytelling and the use of traditional cinema techniques is worth praising. The mini episodes are strong too.
@@RoamingTrend Exactly,even by minor details we can see The passion tracy has for her artwork through all these years,she reminds me a lot of betsy lee,you should talk abt her too someday,Her work has been going unoticed for 10 years already
@@DragonEnthusiast709I have been having this idea of a Tom & Jerry crossover with this Show but only with Tom and any other cat character such as Butch Toodles and Lighting
@@hubertberrum6242 I'd definetly pay for that idea,Or draw
@ cool thanks, I just feel like a fan crossover like that might work in a way
People have already left pretty good points so I’ll just leave my main two cents: The reason that a lot of the characters being “psychotic” in your opinion, is because the story is about gangsters working for a dying business that has to sell illegal alcohol. These aren’t just normal, upright citizens. Crime is almost always not for the mentally stable.
Also 19:24 Mitzi’s not getting a ray of hope, she’s reminiscing about her late husband and the time when their speakeasy was more successful, during 1926, they showcase that with the scene of a glimpse into the past
Fictional writing isn’t meant to be tied to reality, they are supposed to tell the story in the most entertaining way as possible. Meaning diverse character personalities
@ I see your point, but in my opinion, the characters deemed as psychotic all have different forms of it, like how there are different forms of insanity in real life. Who says it can’t be entertaining to watch? It’s chaotic and not predictable, I don’t think anyone expected Rocky to crash the car, find a whole lotta dynamite and then start going haywire while still reciting poetry. The characters are all still distinct because lack of sanity isn’t a personality trait, it’s an issue that almost all of the characters share.
In criminal organisations, psychologically stable individuals are the ideal recruits. If the criminal activity involves meticulous planning, then mentally ill recruits are undependable and have a higher likelihood to go rogue and act independently. But then again, fiction isn't obligated to be reflective of reality
It's good money, and many sane people risk their lives for money. I really disagree with the idea crime is only for the mentally ill.
@@newpaperyes good point, but there’s fewer characters with that mentality because the speakeasy’s doing bad for business, which they shown in the pilot with it being nearly empty, and Mitzi explicitly saying she has to cut the band’s paychecks in the comic. That’s why I think most of the characters are there now for sadder reasons
Yeah, of course, this guy is definitely not a furry
True That!
...just a cyborg wolf! 😂😅
@@TheBookgeek7 Android Fox, but close. It makes me appear more approachable to human lifeforms. 👍
@@RoamingTrend ah... Very understandable.
@@RoamingTrend "makes me more approachable"
is furry.
This video manages to encapsulate both the pitfalls of CinemaSins syndrome and TvTropes syndrome.
Hope I can get better. Trying to find a balance between entertaining and informative. I think the overall points are there, but I spent a bit too much time going scene by scene, which I didn't need to.
@@RoamingTrendnah man, your points were fine. Your bigger points were well thought out, and although you had a lot of nitpicks, just as how enough crumbs can make a cookie, enough nitpicks can elude to an overall lack of attention to detail.
2:14 I thought this was just paying homage to the Great Gatsby and other books set in the 1920s, or even the Noir genre as a whole. Longewinded soliloquy's about geography is kind of a staple of the genre.
100%
I see what you're saying on a lot of the video, though I would personally disagree with some of the ideas. I think someone else in the comments had a similar thought to me in that calling this "furry writing" feels unnecessary or inaccurate. I feel like calling it indie writing would work better, since many of your points tied into other indie animations more than other "furry" works. I would also say that I don't think many of the questions you brought up should need to be answered in the pilot. Not that a pilot can't answer any questions, but things like, what is the exact relationship between Rocky and Freckles, who is the other gang, why do the characters act the way they do should remain unanswered in the pilot and be left for the actual show to establish. Imagine how bloated and fast the writing would feel if they tried to thoroughly answer all those questions in 30 minutes, on top of introducing the characters and the world. Those questions should be answered, but in the show itself, where each question can be given its due diligence. I would agree that having as many characters as they did laugh manically does take away the edge of it, but I am still not too bothered by it personally, since even though a bunch of characters do the crazy laugh thing, they all seem to do it for different reasons, the rival mobsters are a kind of adrenaline junky that love chaos, Freckles seems to have some kind of obsession with destructive things, like the kid that likes fire a bit too much to be normal, and I think Rocky's was a near death experience type thing. Overall, I think the pilot accomplishes its goal. It introduces the world, gives an entertaining show, gives us a base idea of each character to work off of, and drops hints that there is more to the world to keep you intrigued and to provide justification for the rest of the show existing. Apologies for the long-winded comment, but your video gave me a lot to think about and I wanted to make sure I expressed my ideas properly. Good video
Yeah, it irked me greatly as well, "oh a character's not acting serious? A furry thing! Oh, a character's acting seriously? A furry thing!!!"
were we not watching the same video? I coudlve sworn the factors for the furry writing meter were explained outright
To be fair to the Lackadaisy team, I think that in avoiding reading the comic you're unknowingly suggesting changes that ignore that the writers likely intended to stay consistent with the comic whenever possible (e.g. questioning whether Rocky and Freckle could have instead been brothers). This would probably be a bit more arguable for a full-length series - but the pilot was crowdfunded by Lackadaisy fans, so I think it'd make sense for the team to want to work in a lot of references to the comic. Same goes for Rocky's monologue at the beginning, though that one's probably more arguable.
As I said, if the pilot is anything to go by, I know what to expect from the comic. If you say that the comic has more narrative substance, then they failed to translate it into this pilot. If these characters have plenty of characterization in the comics, why didn't they use them in the pilot? The characters we have here are paper thin. If the cousin thing is really important, write the pilot around that angle. If it's not, don't even have the line and focus on some other aspect of these characters.
@@RoamingTrend That's fair. It's been a year or so since I've read Lackadaisy, so I don't think I can confidently say either way - but, like another comment (that you may not have seen before you wrote this response, so no shade) mentioned, this seems like more of a spectacle-advertisement for current fans of the comic. I don't think that that invalidates criticism of either, but I do think it's understandable if they'd want to avoid permanent character development.
@@redcathode Turning them from cousins to brothers is more a suggestion for the dynamic the pilot was trying to establish. The critique is that their familial relationship is clunkily presented and perhaps even unnecessary since there is no difference to the pilot's story whether they were or weren't cousins.
Whenever I offer my take on how the story could go, it's a just a possibility I see when watching these characters in the pilot. Whatever arc or character development they had in the comic is not here.
So, either the source material is bad or this is a bad adaptation.... either way it's bad. I know a lot, if not most, webcomics struggle with consistincy because of their episodic nature but when you adapt it afterwards there is no excuse
5:45 Rocky lived with Freckle for a long time due to his own parents dying. Then, he got kicked out at 16. But all that is explained in the comic.
I don't know if the pilot needed to bring up their familial relationship if it has no meaning in the episode. Might be something for an episode regarding their past or relationship.
@@RoamingTrend The pilot was meant for people who already read the comic. It wasn't expected to get such popularity
While I do agree on the "the poem is too damn long", most of the rest feels, like, REALLY nitpicky. In a "for it being furry I'm going to be extra-extra anal about _everything"_ way.
I'd say so too. I think I focused too much on a shot by shot view of the pilot and it would've been better with an overal discussion on those flaws. But hey, still developing a style and tone for my videos.
Actually what part is too nit-picky?
@@RoamingTrend Well, for example, that a character cannot know "smarty-pants" words unless its explicitly explained (not relevant for the pilot); or that family relationships must be explained (not relevant for the pilot); or that the opponents don't make their presence known for too long (dramatic timing is a thing), or that talking to yourself is a sign of insanity (while its literally the most common way of voicing character's inner thoughts in works that do not have noir-like narrations)
@@RoamingTrend Also, did you... did you just _agree_ with my critic right now? I'm... uh... I'm not sure one's _allowed_ to do that on the internet!
@DarthBiomech
1) I said, it's not a problem if they establish it later on, but don't have him use smarty-pants words and then struggle to read in the next scene.
2) if the family relationship is not relevant, don't have it in the pilot.
3) and they could've built more tension by revealing them to the audience sooner, before the action.
4) On its own, it wouldn't be a problem, but around all these cackling psychos? It may be seen as another sign of insanity
Many writers don't understand the importance of simplicity. Trying to subvert traditional writing conventions has way too high of a chance to fall flat on its face. It's okay to stick to "stereotypes," even if it might make the characters "simple." It keeps the characters from feeling the exact same, or just generally underwhelming and uninspired, by trying to subvert these tropes. It's okay if something isn't something a brand new experience with never-before-seen character identities, just focus on making it engaging. Also, trying to change the tone every ten seconds isn't a good idea. If you want action scenes to be taken seriously, the gravity of the situation should be at the forefront, and not interrupted by a wacky-zany character doing a wacky-zany thing. Keep that consistency, and allow the viewers to trust that the rug won't be pulled from under their feet.
Simplicity sadly is disappearing these days since life isn't that simple. You can not just make things simple no more
The problem is, when some writers try to comprehend Simplicity, they tend to overextend and make it _TOO_ simple... To the point of being Dumbed down.
Not really?@@DrAngelKins
Eh idk about many and a lot of writers did the opposite of those things,I mean if a show does it good with changing then eh imo
This kind of argument is generally used to defend the billions of human-sue stories that get pumped out by the hundreds, tbh.
this feels half actual critique, half nitpicky, but....
To be fair, I can tell a good amount of the character interactions and personalities leaned heavily on having read through the comic and having the context of why they may act the way they do here, which is lots of fun for those that have and can still be a decent time for those who haven't and are just here to appreciate animation. Also, maybe I don't understand what the POINT of a pilot has to be, but I just imagined that this one was just to present the characters in a similar way the comics did and hook the fans off their personalities.
idk, I might just be talkin outta my ass, but this video just felt a lot more harsh than your past few, still a good watch tho ^^"
yeah, this puts the point i was trying to make better than i did. there *is* some valid criticism here, and i imagine this video took a lot of effort to make - but, with that in mind, it feels a bit disingenuous to criticize a multi-year production without taking a few hours to read the source material and understand the circumstances it was created within
"maybe I don't understand what the POINT of a pilot has to be" That's why a lot of people are going to dislike this video. Pilots are known to tv writers as a test of skill, spec scripts, because of how much they need to accomplish in a short period of time while the average audience member is just happy to get free entertainment, many of them admit "why criticize something I am getting for free?". And you are talking out of your ass, of his last 8 videos, 5 are very critical
@@redcathode Here's the thing though. Your audience should not have to do homework. If your audience needs to read or watch supplemental material in order to understand what is happening, you've failed as a writer. You need to be able to convey all the things you intended to within the episode. If you can't do that, why should your audience trust your skill as a writer for future episodes?
@@ziizii2306 the main audience is mainly Lackadaisy fans who read the comic considering that the pilot was funded by them. So really I see why they would lean more into giving fans what they want. Also, the homework is for the guy who made the video to make a proper critique of the pilot, not the other quarter half of the audience. Though I do understand the struggle for non-comic fans of Lackadaisy.
@@poopy5101 But the point of releasing a pilot is specifically NOT to give the people who are already fans what they want, but to reel in even more people and potential studios to take the project on. Both of which would be thus far unfamiliar with the work. It's also just poor form in general to create a show and have the source be required reading to understand important nuances; you don't go in to see a movie for the first time and think the viewers should have read the book first to understand what is going on. Reading source material should be optional only, and something that just gives greater appreciation for the SMALL bits that you couldn't get from a show.
17:39 what you think she is insane all because she kind of talking to the painting of her husband
Her husband died and she messaged him a lot come on man. Sometimes you kinda do a little crazy thing here and there if your family if your loved ones died
Guys I think he's trying to tell us that Rocky is a side character
I think he might be idk 🫢
Isn't he the poster boy?
@@kalebjacobs7505 Yep, but he failed the "not a furry" test 💀
It's fine if the show isn't your cup of tea, you don't have to make up excuses for why you don't like it.
I never see anyone bring this up so I'll be the one to do so. As someone who was following the pilot's production from pretty much the beginning, I can say that it wasn't meant to be the pilot. When it was pitched, it was pitched as a short film featuring lackadaisy characters. The reason it seems like its primarily fanservice is because that's all it was meant to be. Hell, I didn't even know it changed to be a pilot until the premeire was put up on TH-cam. (Maybe they ssid it somewhere else, at the time i only followed them on TH-cam)
My guess is that at some point either because of interest from the fans or an influx of funding, the team switched focus from doing a single animation to an whole series. Since the animation was well into development, obviously they couldn't turn the script into something more newcomer friendly and now we have this pilot-shortfilm Frankenstein.
Im not excusing the shortcomings mind you, im just sharing my theory for why the main one people bring up is there.
TL;DR
The Lackadaisy Pilot was originally just going to be just a one off short film. When it was changed to be a pilot instead the facervice-y elements remained.
As another someone who watched the pilot, then read the series, these critiques are so interesting because of that lack of context- though I couldn't say I know where the overall story of lackadaisy is going.
As one comment noted, the "pilot" is more fanservice- which make's a lot more make sense. It's in the middle of things but after the pilot. Quirks of characters are explained in the comic, that's where all the setup is.
I will admit I am not the best media critic, but that element of competence you felt was lacking was so interesting- because it's true. Mordecai and Viktor are really the only competent ones- and their held back by their emotional attachments. Sera and Nico are insane- good at destrucution/chaos, but aren't fully invested in the cause they were hired for. Looking at this from the 5-man-band angle, where each serves a role and compliments each other, the central lackadaisy crew _should_ be more competent, but since they lack Victor and Mordecai, they are unbalanced.
also rocky got hit by a truck... he was always a bit crazy... but brain trauma does stuff to you...
Though I 100% suffer from furry writing syndrome and may be biased :3
The comic is actually really good and doesn’t have most of the flaws pointed in the video, I think they made the chapter like this because they only had 20 minutes to show everything
And they wasted a lot of those minutes or way too long gags, poems, psycho Rocky scenes, ect. I think you could've fit a lot more by cutting a lot of those down.
3:30 strong disagree there. You should look at the writing of the era. A smart literate person of the 1900-1930s would likely be familiar with those words and have used them.
The literacy rate was low in that period, but when you were literate the standards and material used was of far far higher complexity than the dreg kids read today.
I won't disagree with you on the writing though, it is bad; but because it is doing the awkward things bad comic book writing sometimes does, overexplaining.
I will say the voice acting bugs me the most, both because the accent and delivery feel and sound wrong for 1920s deep south era.
they aren't in the deep south. they are in/nearer the rust belt.
the main problem i have with most of those indie shows is that they seems to always write their main characters as naive idiots for the sake of making them ''cute'', ''relatable'' to a especific internet audience, they complete ignore the backstory those characters should have in the enviroment they suppose to live.
because of that you end with characters like chalier from hasbin hotel who suppose to have a life time experience living in hell and some experience with politics but she complete ignore that for the sake of making her naive and ''cute''
All the things you consider as furry writing are just problems that most beginner writers get wrong.
If you read the comics and the ins and outs of why some of these decisions were made, it would definitely make things a lot better. For example:
The reason why Viktor doesn't do much is because he has a lot of bad injuries that would hinder him like crazy, like not being able to bend his knees correctly. If you see him in the comic, it slows him down like crazy and he can never do much because of it. I do agree they should've shown this in some sort of way like they did in the comics.
Mordecai didn't hire Sarafine and Nico, he was probably forced into it as you can see he's not really interested.
Nico and Sarafine aren't incompetent, they're just arrogant, so they look at smaller operations like these and spend the whole time just lallygagging since they see the other gang as being like little bugs to play with and just squish whenever they're done playing with them. Of course, they were kind of right since they had a billion chances to kill them but they were able to escape in the end because they got super cocky. You can even see this when Sarafine is helping Nico up and they're still joking around while Mordecai is looking at the whole thing exactly as anyone else would seeing how much of a waste of time it was when his goal was to get the alcohol, while the other two just wanted to have fun tormenting a small gang. This would explain the long wait to actually attack, their waiting for them to pack up the bottles, Sarafine's purposefully bad aim, Nico just ramming the car instead of just shooting, and their disregard for the actual alcohol. They just have extremely different priorities.
Not everyone is psycho in the pilot. Freckle has an obsession with guns (which they also explain in the comic) that he always tries to avoid guns for, Mitzi is not actually crazy, she's just kind of reminiscing and mourning over her husband (it's not like she thinks he's alive or something). Sarafine is actually just a psychopath because of her disregard for life and the fun she has just chasing and shooting at people. Rocky, on the other hand, as a character, isn't psycho, he's just stupid and foolish and I do agree that that scene of him being crazy with the bombs and stuff was totally unnecessary. They could've displayed his incompetency in a totally different way.
They do have better reasons that the three they chose for the job were chosen, mainly because of the specific relationships they each have with Mitzi, but also because Mitzi probably didn't expect the operation to be as crazy as it was knowing that all they had to do was pick up the bottles and leave.
Despite being cousins, Rocky and Freckle were still very close as kids and again it's displayed a lot better in the comics.
I do agree with other points you made though that are completely justified for example:
The entire scene of Rocky being psycho with the bombs was unnecessary.
Rocky should not be able to carry the coffin with one arm as he did, he's a spaghetti noodle.
The poem should've had a better meaning to it other than just a reference back to the comic.
There should've been a better reason to have hope in the last scene or at least a better stress on the idea that they still had a victory in their retrieval of some kind of alcohol.
And yeah... the scene at 13:46 is kinda cringe.
Pretty awesome video. Even though I disagree with a fair amount, I thought your criticisms were very good. Keep up the good work, man.
3:18 that all has to do with Rocky's backstory. He didn't go to school and lived on the streets and in a circus for most of his life, so he naturally studied everything he could get his hands on. That's why he knows all the fancy words.
I couldn't find the exact words myself to describe why the indie animations feel so grand and yet fall so short, but you've given alot of clarity and helpful dissecting overview of why these highly aspiring projects lack something that prevents me from wanting to fully revisit them.
Great video!
3:00 Old Man River is a personification of the Mississippi River. They're the same river
In Tracy’s defense she said the reason they’re cats is because the only way she could think to make them super emotive was to make anime characters or cats and anime was way over done
What
That's.....a very strange response, I'll say. Like we've had animated humans with very expressive faces that weren't anime for...like, actual decades. I mean no offense but that legitimately comes across like a skill issue.
I don't hate it, mind you, I think how she expresses with cats is quite nice. I just think that is a weird statement.
@@ARStudios2000 I agree it's a skill issue, but I like the animation style and I hate that everything with anthropomorphized characters gets called "furry" now. Also I heard this second hand, so I may have been misinformed, I just remember people claiming she was a furry when the pilot dropped and this was the rebuttal I saw.
@@Q_Cooper I understand the frustration.
Wait, since when Is having the characters be animals for no reason bad? It's just a stylistic choice
4:58 The funny thing about this is, I would argue that inaccurate, or rather, *unreliable* exposition can be a great way to introduce a character when it’s on *their* terms.
Willy Wonka’s 1971 incarnation managed exactly this; faked a limp on his cane and fell over, only to somersault into a grandstand to his factory participants’ applause. This establishes him as someone deceitful, that you can never tell when he’s lying or not. He is elusive, zany and fun, but at the cost of being dependable.
That would probably stack up better if Mordecai, Nicodeme and Serafine got any win over the protags, but I think it’s worth mentioning. The unknowns of their relationship would *naturally* develop interest, so even if it wasn’t handled *too* well, I think the lack of wordy exposition on that front is the right direction to take.
Well I’m glad I somehow managed to stick with the whole video. You have a LOT of stuff in the first 2/3 of this video that’s just a lot of unfun nickpicking, but the stuff 15 minutes in is actually interesting and has something to say. I really like the alternate story you thought of, it’s very cohesive. But the “furry meter” definitely feels like a “ew furries are cringe” needlessly mean/rude part. Maybe if you actually explained WHY those things things (“OC going psycho,” etc) disagree with you or are bad for the story or whatever (I don’t even know, you didn’t explain WHY those concepts were bad), I’d respect that opinion more.
22:04 also at this point it’s interesting you say this, because it kind of makes your whole video pointless?? That sounds harsh, but I mean. It’s a pilot. The purpose of it was to show off spectacle, show off what could be possible in the story, garner support, _be a spectacle_, etc. The actual teaser for the season and the shorts are accurate to what story the show is actually going to tell, but the pilot was to gather interest etc. I definitely see what you mean about the plot of the pilot, but despite your casual voice you are coming off as “grr I hate furries” or something. (Lost my words at the end, sorry)
While you make some good points, you seem to have misinterpreted a few things. The Daisy crew are not stealing from the rival gang. They are picking up a supply of liquor. Mihtzi mentions she was able to get a supply from the morgue, and later talks about getting their money's worth. That's why the rival gang doesn't care about perserving the alcohol-it's not their's at all.
Sure, in theory, it would be nice to get the alcohol, but that's not why they are there. It's a side mission, a little bit of fun by crushing a rival.
Lackadaisy is about a once powerful, now struggling speakeasy. The pilot's job is too show us the status quo.
I actually like the way it opened up, monologue not with standing. The opening dialogue was exposition, but more about the characters than their objective roles. Rocky is hyperactive and out there, while Freckle is the straight laced cousin who gets dragged into Rocky's misadventures. While Ivy is the sassy in-between the two.
As the pilot goes on, we learn more about their personality. Freckles bloodlust and combat skills, Ivy's resourcefulness, and the fact that Rocky is more observant than he seems.
Going in blind, we don't know why they are there until the coffin is opened.
The mihtzi part is important. When she talks to the Atlas painting, it establishes the history of Lackadaisy, that they were on top of the world. Now, their head is dead, and his widow is trying keep things together.
When Mihtzi daydreams, it's not a hopeful Fantasy, but a nostalgic daydream about what was.
90% of this video 'criticism' is like fundamentally misunderstanding the premise of the show and characters and suggesting a different story entirely... like its a dark comedy + mystery. its not supposed to be a fully serious drama played straight. even so it has a lot of drama and intrigue imo but also lots of good gags and whimsy. we are frontloaded with spectacle and exposition but still supposed to be left with more questions than answers. i think the pilot is an almost perfect set up.
rocky is a performer turned mobster way in over his head, he's taking on a role completely unsuited for him out of (possibly misplaced) loyalty to mitzi and his own illusions of grandeur. while i do think his monologue does overstay its welcome a bit for my personal taste, it does establish he's into drama, theater; and i dont understand the 'criticism' about him not being 'intelligent' enough to perform this, theres not really anything establishing a lack of intelligence from him (though a lack of wisdom for sure), its establishing him as a performer and shakesphere and poetry is accessible to the masses. libraries are free. he's just very much a classic Bard in terms of archetype. the show is not supposed to be competent gangsters doing competent gangster things. its a whole lot of incompetent idiots falling upwards. (and frankly how a lot of bootlegger stories go; i suspect downwards again at some point). they're not a cohesive unit at all and that's firmly established in the pilot. lackadaisy is a fallen empire after the death of atlas, and his widow mitzi is struggling to restore it to its past glory. rocky is one of the few idealistic and naive enough to try and push towards this goal, (more clear in the comic but i think decently established in the pilot as well with how proud he is of fumbling a simple pickup and viewing it as a success while mitzi can see it for the disaster it actually was). viktor WAS originally mitzi's main muscle but had to retire. this is a bit subtle but still established in the pilot, when ivy says he has no idea what she went through to get the booze and he snaps back that he has a very good idea of what she just went through. i think being irritated by rocky's tendencies is understandable; he is supposed to be a well-meaning nuisance and a wild card. (a boon ocassionally, since he does distract the savoy twins away from ivy when she's hiding under the car- but a hinderance more often, destroying the property of Sable, their main customer with any influence) but harping on and on about how he doesnt work as a protagonist because you dont like him is just writing a different show. rocky's a catalsyt. he's dynamite. i think ivy potentially could and does fill a similar role, sure, but in the original comic she's even less a part of the main trio until several chapters in (a very welcome change for the pilot imo).
however i think its fair enough to say that the pilot doesn't establish rocky's personal stakes very much. (which i think its okay for a first episode, give us something to sink our teeth into later) the comic is much more clear that he has a crush on mitzi. and the dynamic of him being freckle's cousin rather than his brother is VERY important specifically BECAUSE a cousin is a bit more distant of a relation than a brother- it implies he's closer to a more distant relative than anyone in his immediate family for whatever reason (whether its death or being disowned or otherwise). from the comic we see he is skating on thin ice with his aunt and fears being discarded if he ever pushes her buttons too far. (he doesnt think through the consequences of his actions and desperately pleads for freckle not to tell his mother he's roped him into a life of crime). even in the pilot its pretty clear freckle brings up his mom because he thinks she'd stop them from doing this and even though rocky laughs it off, it does suggest some level of fear of her. if rocky wasn't the protagonist i genuinely dont think freckle would ever be involved with lackadaisy's crimes and he'd be too shy to meet ivy at all. rocky is someone with just enough personal tie and force of personality its hard for freckle to say no to him. but there is still some ambiguity that he might at some point.
but to be fair freckle's aren't really either. he is protective of ivy, very cute for shipping purposes but this insistance of him being a mobster 'to protect people' is a bit overblown. (in the comics his motivations are more clear, but just from the pilot, we mostly see he's reluctant to be here, but implied rocky and ivy roped him into it)
im personally very excited to learn more about the more grounded elements of rocky's character, his past is hinted at in the comics but its mentioned only in letters and dialogue, we dont ever see a young rocky flashback. (besides the childhood shenanigans of freckle and rocky in a few side comics) in the comics and side materials we do know rocky was traveling alone for some time, and also joined a circus for some amount of time; freckle and nina seem to be the only family he is still in contact with. (i think being around larger than life stunt acts really must have fueled some fire to his recklessness and i hope we see a glimpse of that too)
i am curious to see if rocky is indeed going to be our primary pov, because in the comic we do get a chapters focused on mitzi, mordacai, even viktor and zib. im definately suspecting more mitzi focus for sure.
i also think RT is too quick to discount the antagonist gang playing around with their kill making them seem less of a threat. they were 100% not taking this seriously because of how little threat they assume this trio poses to them. serafine calls them vermin and nico says he wasnt expecting them to have much firepower. theyre not listening to mordecai because he is NOT their boss, he's the new recruit, previously worked for lackadaisy. the whole point of him being here was probably to test him and does pretty much does confirm he has divided loyalties (decides not to shoot ivy, giving intrigue as to why for future episodes). serafine even called him out on nagging about their methods and accusing him of being too sentimental, its a bit of playful banter but also a potential threat if he ends up turning on them. if anything it makes the savoys seem even more dangerous in comparison, nico did have to jump in to save serafine from an explosion, and sera is naturally going to be pissed that her quarry escaped. they have a bone to pick now.
also the furry bashing is just juvenille. sometimes people in cartoon are just animals to be more expressive and memorable. mickey mouse doesnt have any reason to be a mouse. intentional or not the kind of cat and mouse games these gangs are going to be involved in is very-cat coded, but there doesn't need to be any deep symbolic reason or furry world building a la beastars for it to be justified.
@RockslideTreeClan You make a lot of good points. I read the comic, but that was years ago. I was trying to look at it from someone who isn't familiar with the comics.
For instance, I can understand why it's unclear why Viktor was at the bar. However I find RT's comment about how weird it is that Rocky is scared of Freckle's mom. It establishes the woman she is, especially when you look at Freckle's demeanor.
Also, I do think it makes sense that the Savoys turn on the lights before firing, because of how dark it was. It's better to see what you're shooting at.
This
@@GavinHawk-z4b You agree with me?
@@kingjotnar6448 Yeah
This video feels *really* nitpicky, to the point it’s almost mean-spirited. I thought the pilot was charming, who cares if the characters are a little superfluous or silly sometimes??
Real
yeah definitely
He's not saying you can't like/enjoy the show, and the bad writing and terrible pacing, is why I was legit bored by end of the pilot.
@ yeah I mean the writing isn’t amazing or anything. I just think he’s extremely negative about it, it almost feels personal how much he cares. Anyway, its totally valid to not like the show, so I won’t argue on that
11:21 Mordecai did not hire them. They are his teammates.
Mordecai kind of wish that he have a different teammates
But his boss want to team up with them
I read the comic Twice by now and I have to say this: Read it, it answers a lot of questions you have about the characters.
Exactly! A lot of opinions for someone who doesn't know much about it.
You shouldn't need to have already experienced the story in order to get it
So this had started off as a reply, but it just got way too long that I felt it should've been moved to a proper comment, especially if people wanted to see and properly respond!! I will be explaining the general nit-picks in the video that personally irked me and that I see is commonly being brought up. Apologies if this comes across as rude, my main intention here is to explain since I've noticed the creator has been asking about the nit-picks and I was hoping to provide some insight!! Also fair warning, this is most likely gonna be LONG, especially since I'm dissecting the video as I watch through it. One final thing, I do like Lackadaisy, so that may make me a bit biased.
-The whole "Furry-o-meter" gimmick. It seriously came across as just needlessly making fun of furries rather than being anything of worth to the video, especially since you never really explained why the things that raised the meter were bad. Honestly it just hurt watching the meter slowly go up whenever the characters just.. Showed personality or did awkward things.
-The fact that the characters knowing "smart words" or mythology needs to be explained. That you just gotta apply some cartoon logic to, yes some of it may not make sense but this is FICTION, something as trivial as this really doesn't need to be shown. There's no harm in just assuming they picked up their knowledge from somewhere either.
-The exposition. This is a pilot, some exposition will be needed for those who are unfamiliar with the comic such as myself. And since this was at a similar part in the video, regarding the point of Rocky complaining about his lack of strength, I'm sorry but I thought most people were able to tell that was a lie? Characters CAN lie to get out of doing difficult things, personally I find it quite fun to watch.
-The whole familial thing about Rocky and Freckle. That ESPECIALLY felt like a nit-pick, as while yes, it's perfectly fine having an issue with the dialogue, but really just over-analyzing the one line and going on about the point longer than it should've gone for was what felt nit-picky about it.
-The issues with the villains(? For a lack of a better term) No, they do not have to be competent villains, that itself is a very common trope. I do very much like your idea of the scene, although it's clearly shown the characters are far more unhinged and dramatic, it wouldn't exactly make sense for them to be smart about things and to be stealthy.
-The evil laughing and "psycho" behavior. It's perfectly okay to say you dislike a trope, I understand, but that's really just not a flaw with the pilot itself, more your opinion on the trope. As well, adrenaline can cause the insane laughter you keep bringing up.
-"Where did you learn to drive like that??" "I didn't!" As in she didn't learn how to drive LIKE THAT. Yes she knows how to drive, but not "Like that" as Rocky described.
-The villain's incompetency. Again, this is fiction, there are protagonists we want to see succeed, and having the villains kill them off right away makes no sense since we are seeing the pilot through them, there would be no plot to follow if they were dead. Because of this, the villains do have to do things that realistically don't make sense, but since this is fiction, they can get away with it.
-A lot of your points here to me at least feel like opinions more than criticism or anything objective. There's nothing wrong with stating your opinions, but you do need to make that clear when making a video like this, or it will be interpreted as genuine criticism rather than opinions.
-Your dislike of Rocky. Once again, this is an opinion on Rocky. You are perfectly free to dislike a character for whatever reason, although do note that the majority of the people who watched Lackadaisy like Rocky and see him as an affective character.
Really just so much of the nit-picky aspects of this comes from the fact that most of your points can be dismissed by the fact that this is fiction, it can get away with unrealistic things and you do need to apply some suspension of disbelief and, as overused as the term is lately, media literacy.
I know for a fact adrenaline can bring up insane laughter. I sound like a villain playing video games with my friends
I think your comments are interesting, and I agree with pretty much all of your critiques and suggestions. I'd never heard of Lackadaisy until seeing the hype a bit before the pilot dropped, and the pilot got me to go read the webcomic... which kind of immediately made me no longer like the pilot for the exact issues of tone and narrative focus being so different from the comic. Obviously, a long webcomic has more time to spread things out, but it's truly an ensemble cast that splits its focus *a lot* while still (IMO) remaining coherent around a core plot and themes and being interesting. Rocky is also way less annoying and more likeable in the comic IMO, which apparently is also in the S1 promo stuff (I honestly stopped following the project seeing how the webcomic is basically in indefinite hiatus and the pilot felt like the team was taking the property in a new direction that I liked less).
How to say you hate furries without saying you hate furries.
Since you've done many videos on indie animation, i'm curious on if you'd do a review for Monkey wrench. It currently has 3 episodes (the 4th appears to be nearing completion), and has always been a fun watch. Not without flaws (I remember the voices clearly not blending in with the sound effects and background audio for ep 1 like they were recorded in audio booths), but enjoyable to watch.
On second note i'm surprised to see someone call murder drones awful. I'm no fanboy of the show, it's not my thing, hell i was super confused when i decided to check out the last couple episodes but i thought the general consensus was that it was severely flawed, but an acceptable show.
I watched a bit of Monkey Wrench. I think one episode. It also spends a bit too long with its action scenes without setup. It's going for a Cowboy Bebop vibe by the looks of it, but even that show took time to establish characters a bit more.
MD's dialogue is absolutely atrocious. It hard for me to even focus on the plot.
Murder Drones is nothing but fan service for edgy middle schoolers with autism. I actually think that 😭
Murder Drones is a colossal failure, it had merits in that the art and concept it gave was good but that’s about it. Story had no direction, characters were bland, had changing morals that contradict every other scene or just straight up annoying, and the pacing was abysmal. I wanted to like it but Liam fumbled hard and wasted everyone’s time and resources.
@@WolfgangXP65-67 I'm starting to feel like autistic people are the scapegoat for everything. If it's a reference to Hazbin hotel that is edgy and you put Murder drones in the same category ( I haven't seen it, I'm not saying it's not ), then no, Vivziepop has ADHD. And yes, it can be popular with neurodivergent teens, but this is just a generalization.
I really loved MD despite its flaws but that ending was just bad, it made the show unrewatchable for me
i dont know whats up with indie adult animated shows like this or hazbin hotel having characters that talk like they belong in a nick jr cartoon. shows like regular show or gravity falls have characters that talk much more maturely and realistically yet those are aimed at a younger audience. its rlly strange
Tbh, I believe there's no true definition of mature. Mature definitions depend on culture. It can be simple to be complicated. For example, my simple definition of mature is taking care of oneself. Complicated ones are hard since not everyone can fit into that(it's the minority). Remember, people are people, so people will always do what you don't want to do
Regular show & gravity falls were made by studios and a large group of people. Hazbin hotel & lackadaisey were created by a small handful of artists primarily working over the internet and rely on crowd funding for income
@@DrAngelKins "There isn't a definition to pron but you know it when you see it"
Not anymore, with more people whose experience come from tumblr and other fanfic sites every show will sound and feel the exact same.
@@user-x7dc2pq7nawful analogy for multiple reasons
For 1 Pron quite litterally does have direct definition: a form of media that are regarded as emphasizing sensuous or sensational aspects of a subject and stimulating a compulsive interest in their audience
For 2 Maturity is something who’s definition is left up for personal interpretation. Maturing simply means to grow/advance whether it be physically, mentally, emotionally, etc
For three : “you know what it is when you see it” might not even be a true statement for some
At 10:09 , I think the driver intended to slam the front of his car into Rocky's body at high speed using the vehicle's force . So it was really the big guy turn to try to kill rocky in his own way. Which is why the lady didn't shoot at rocky.
Hey is Nico said, "My turn" I wouldn't complain.
I agree with most of what you were saying, but I don't think the "furry-o-meter" is a particularly productive way of looking at things. These writing tropes are definitely not limited to furry content, but rather are symptomatic of a lot of young writers with OCs who either don't have a story or whose story isn't fully defined. I feel like labelling things you don't like as "furry" things rather than common writing problems is unhelpful to non-furries who have these problems and unfair to furries who don't have these problems.
side note: it feels sorta weird to scroll up and see you interact with some comments but not acknowledge genuine criticism
Those are simple to answer in bed, ready to sleep. Big criticisms need more time to read, think about and address.
@@RoamingTrendah, makes sense. sorry if that sounded rude
@@redcathode no problem. I tried to reply to yours but I'm a little konked out. Sorry if it's not as articulate. 👍
@@RoamingTrendtotally cool! no need to apologize
And 2 weeks later still rarely interact with genuine criticism. A tad disappointing.
I swear back in the 90's I knew an artist by that name (not personally, just online) but I can't quite nail it down if she's the same person.
Yes. Thank you. I thought there was something wrong with me, I felt guilty for not liking the pilot. I love the beautiful animation, cinematography and the prohibition era setting, but I really didn't like the characters, especially Rocky.
It's like you're supposed to be the look out, and you're just announcing your presence to the world, the others should have told him "you're gonna blow our cover, knock it off. (take the violin away) make yourself useful and be a lookout" but they're so passive. And since you mentioned it, they should've opened it before they got to the car, I didn't think about that, but that was because I only watched it once, I wasn't interested in watching it again.
And I usually like the cartoony comic relief character, but I found Rocky so annoying, when he's cackling like a maniac and causing so much trouble. The pilot is beautiful, but the script could've used another draft, someone should've looked over it.
The characters just seemed so incompetent, and it just seems like the creator really loved their OC's and wanted to show them off, "this one is funny and cool, and he's crazy" "she's a bad guy and she's also crazy", "he's quiet and sweet, but he is also crazy" "this guy is a bartender but he's big and tough", now that you mentioned it he should've been the muscle and went on the mission, because they blew the mission thanks to Rocky.
I admire all the hard work that went into the pilot, they did an amazing job, it looks beautiful, but they characters are so incompetent and there is a lot of scenes where they waste time. It could've been a short demo proof of concept thing. I hope they can improve, I want indie animation to succeed and we need original ideas without meddling from big studios. But I think the script could've used another draft.
I agree with your take 100% I thought i was crazy for not liking it, too. I loved the animation and setting! But the characters were too unlikeable for me. I agree with the video that Freckle should’ve been the focus and it might’ve helped give these psychopaths some humanity😂
You should read the comic. It's not that long and much better than the pilot.
This just sounds like you're complaining about having so many questions when you haven't been looking for answers. You would know why Rocky is crazy if you read the comics and saw that he had a brain injury. You would know why Viktor isn't part of the gang of you read the comics and saw that his knees don't bend. You would know why Nico and serafine are crazy if you read the comics and saw that they were raised by a tribe that practices voodoo Magic. And like 80% of your questions have answers in the comics. Looking at the amount of time you put into making this video, you could have spent like 6 hours reading all of the comics and know why it is like it is. I know that i sound like an over protective fan but if you are gonna put the pilot under a microscope like this it just doesn't make sence why you didn't read the comics.
18:04 they could've made victor injured to justify him being the bar tender
he was injured in the comics
Not in the pilot though, so...he could've done the gig.
@@RoamingTrend no, but like… his injuries were before even the pilot started. Either way, Viktor doing the gig would just be weird if they already knew he’s injured. And it would still be weird to bring up an information that everyone knew in the bar scene.
Ngl i didn't understand what plot even was so I had to read the first few chapters of the comic.
This doesn't feel like a first episode - the first comic had a serviceable intro to the plot/series. It feels like a proof of concept for making a whole season based on something that would happen a few episodes in.
As a pilot, it fails. However, I'm not fully sure it was meant to be a complete introduction to the series.
That was what I got out of it. I don't know why you would take the time to establish characters and relationship better. Felt like there was enough time.
It felt more akin to showing off the characters you're going to get to know rather than a real introduction/storyline.
Which isn't a bad thing, it gives them some mystery, rocky though has always been a sort of narrator insert while everyone else has a pretty good role in the events of the story.
@@Jane-ow7sr that doesn't make sense for new viewers like me. You need to have at least SOME exposition. I didn't even know Lacksadaisy was the name of some gang until I read the comments.
@@youwhat. Because it's technically not. Lackadaisy is just the name of the diner/speakeasy, Not a gang gangs don't base themselves on the establishment they occupy, they base it off of the group itself.
Sorry but I can’t agree with what your saying. It’s a pilot not a movie it’s not supposed to show a full complete story with a beginning a middle and an end it’s supposed to show parts of the story whilst leaving thing open for more so that you want to see more. The pilot is the middle of the story. And to say it has bad righting just for doing what a pilot is for just isn’t right. So basically the pilot is for showing the characters and what there like where as the actual show and mini episodes are going to focus more on the actual story.
I’m gonna add in my options as I watch because yes!
In my opinion the intro was good, since that’s just Rocky being Rocky, he’s dramatic and loving poems and stuff even at the most unlikely times. And I like how they used a poem from the actual comic.
The cousin thing was true and Rocky had a time when they were younger since they lived together with Freckles mom, but that won’t make much sense for the people who didn’t read the comics.
Ivy is like 17-19 or something, Rocky just being Rocky again so silly, but honestly the comment Rocky made about Icy and Freckle and the cousin comment but again it was kinda random for the people who didn’t read the comic.
The other gang wasn’t really competent not gonna like, beside Mordecai. The other two just love fun and killing people.
To be honest I do kinda wish they explained why Freckle was crazy as well as Rocky, but I’m sure we’ll eventually get an explanation. I hope anyway..
Mordecai is their coworker, I understand your frustration for Mordecai’s character, he was definitely a more better in the comic than the pilot.
No lack of crazy is definitely true, the cast is just a little coocoo..
Rocky is annoying but that’s definitely just his character, just a crazy cat I suppose.
Not sure what the plot is gonna be but what the trailer for season 1 seemed to be about is Rocky’s past and such, so it makes sense why Rocky is the main character, he needs to be fleshed out more than he is in the manga.
Viktor isn’t a rum runner anymore due to him being old and his knees are bad, plus he was shot in the comic so he probably can’t work too hard for now. Again not good for the non comic readers, so it kinda sucks for them.
I’m sure the first season will be way better than the pilot in many ways, it’s more fleshed out and shows Rocky from the past and why he’s the way he is, I hope it shows more of his family. Rocky is desperate to find a place to fit in a place to stay, so it makes sense why he’s the way he is.
I feel so sigma 🐱
Yes! The comic gives context to some of the issues. Not discounting the issues the video has brought up but definitly insight.
I really hate that defense of "Oh its just that character being that character I suppose".
Like there is a time a place for that, him doing a random thing when they are suppose to be on a hush hush mission is not being quirky, or endearing, its being dumb.
And the explosive excavator thing really cemented his being dumb character for me. Its okay to full meltdown if it suppose to help accomplish something but it did not Hell it even put more danger into an already hectic situation.
@@cybercybex To be honest Rocky is dumb so it makes sense why he does stuff at inappropriate times, I guess that’s why I love him so much.
@@mrweaseljam you basically have to do your homework
@@mrweaseljam you shouldnt have to read the comic for a show, and i say that as someone who has read the comic.
The primary goal is for it to stand on its own two feet without needing supplemental material
Yeah, they're cousins. I know you didn't read the comic fully. When it comes to taking information from Rocky. It's a toss off. Like flipping a coin. You'll either get heads or tails. Heads: You'll realize is he insane. Tails: You'll realize he actually smart, but something went wrong in his creation.
I thought Lackadaisy was beautiful to look at, but when you said the word "indulgent" - that neatly describes SO MANY of my issues with the story and humor!
The story seemed like a low priority (if at all on the writer's radar). It was like a passionate collector showing us all their favorite cat toy characters talking non-stop about why they're each "so special and funny". It felt very immature, in-spite of it obviously being for older viewers.
I used to read the comics and again, while beautiful - the story never made a lot of sense to me. It seemed to become very complex series of betrayals and alliances like a soap opera... but I was really only interested in looking at the cute cat artwork.
Exactly! I think I should have expanded on that point more.
Before i watch, i believe the plot mastered stuff well, jokes and narratives.
They mastered storytelling techniques. They just need to refine the story now.
You know, I really appreciate that you went the extra mile to integrate your fursona into the footage of the episode like where you use a yellow shield to deflect the bullets from freckles, that's very amusing, does kind of mess with the 4th wall though.
nah mate the comic is fuckin INCREDIBLE. its unfinished but its really really good
There are 3 types of shows
1. ones push to make you love it
2. The ones made from emotional passion which is this
3. The one made from a solid logical thought out idea
not just writing, but specifically furry writing? sounds like you're an expert on the topic. hmmmm
*whistles innocently*
Good analysis. Yeah, art and aniamtion are fine, but the pilot has no story substance. Didn´t knew that there is a season coming, because the pilot didn´t awoke any interest to stay updated, since I have had to assume that the "story beats would remain the same. Suggestion for a nice analysis vid: Daria Cohen`s "Vampair" series?
I came across your channel and decided to watch. Not into these kind of animations, I like more anime seinin stuff. However your critiques drew me in as a creator and series creator hopeful.
I love how you boil down writing, themes, and character arcs in a consice way. I'd hire you as a writing revisionist if I had the resources haha
Your videos remind me of a slightly long and repetitive video, but relevant nonetheless, about millennial writing. I notice a lot of writers and creators are stuck in their bubbles, refuse to see outside of a California like world, and are always trying to be quirky, funny, but cool and relatable to the kids. Many don't study or view classic material older than 20 years ago. It shows. You mentioned in another video about writing what you know or study what you want to write about. This is a major issue in modern entertainment and instead are focused on graphical, and relatable content that offends no one. It comes out a bit pedantic and bland.
Seriously taking notes on your criticisms. Thanks man. You are awesome
Pretty nice video!.
Coming from someone who worked on the pilot, this holes on the main story (or sequences going through the film) were really concerning from a personal point.
Story really felt empty and characters were really hard to understand the first time I watched the full animatic (which I needed to accomplish my tasks in production). I didn't got if there was a story to tell exactly, because after all, almost all the short film was only pure action sequences and some nibbles of references to the comic.
I had to read some parts of the comic itself to had a better understanding of everything... and to give the proper importance to this characters, and to keep up with a good quality work.
And finally, from what I understood from the production and direction, and the team in general, it was that the main objective of this short film was more as gift to all the fans of the comic that were supporting the comic through many years, and that sounds pretty sweet. But the function of this film as a pilot with it's own "story", was something I was still questioning multiple times during my time on production. It could be better, but still understandable from a production perspective.
- Anon.
If true, thanks for sharing. Once again, I am left questioning why one wouldn't try to make a complete story even if it's something for the fans. Surely if the writing of the comics is so good, that shouldn't have been a problem. The mini episodes seem to work better than the pilot.
@@RoamingTrend From what I heard (and I personally understand, not a 100% fact) from the direction crew myself in multiple voice chats, this was fully intended when they were crafting the main script for this short film. The intention was more emphasized in showcasing the attitude coming from these characters specifically and making refer multiple small parts from the main comic story.
Not trying to justify it, but yeah... the comic is way more rich story wise and could be more noticeable in the pilot.
6:04 she’s like 18 and in college lmao
Jesus Christ, I cannot watch this- I thought MY videos were obnoxiously knit-picky.
Seriously, It’s like this dude watched like, 2 CinemaSins videos, then just got up and said, “LOL THATS EASY I CAN DO THAT”.
What are the nitpicks
Imagine getting emotional over a review. Its just his opinion, calm down💀
My two goats are interacting 🥹 such a special moment..
@BlackLightJack. only one I could probably call a nitpick might be the spaghetti arms bit. But it highlights the probably of lack of attention to detail. Characters say one thing and contradict it in the next scene. Rocky recites complex poems but can't read a name. He pretends to be weak, but it is stronger than the muscle of the team.
What characters say or do matter, and if you are making any show or pilot, you need to pay attention to what is important to establish and what isn't. You may be a fan of the comic and you don't need to know the lore behind these characters, but other people do and the show paints a more inconcise picture of these characters, leaving them with nothing but spectacle by the end.
@@RoamingTrend I would say that this was a very good video, and was not overly nitpicky. EDIT: I mean not nitpicky at all.
How can you make an entire video complaining about something you have done hardly any research on? Read the comic, it explains everything! Plus, it a cartoon, a lot of the content just isn't that deep. But I guess complaining about something that is commonly enjoyed is good clickbait.
Hes not reviewing the comic though. He's reviewing the pilot.
Seee i disagree that freckle should've been the protag because he is so timid.its would have been the hazbin situation where he's okay but he doesnt have anything going on as opposed to rocky's eccentric nature.better loud and shallow than deep and boring
All the critism comes from either not knowing the original story from the comic or it's characters and treating the pilot like it's supposed to fulfill all the story needs from a whole season. While also suggesting changes that completely disrespect the original story and would require completely scrapping any semblance of familiarity with the comic's storyline.
It seems that you're treating the pilot like a "episode 1". And that is not what a pilot is, or what purpose it's meant to serve. A pilot is meant to represent what a "common" episode of a series would look like, which can also include picking up the story with the assumption that many things are already stablished.
This whole video was kinda upsetting to watch.
So what about pilots that do manage to effectively establish characters and have a cohesive and complete narrative within the pilot? (And when I say complete narrative, I don't mean the entire comic, just within the episode. What are we as the audience meant to get out of this beyond surface level spectacle?)
Unless you are Genndy Tartakovsky, you need to do more in your pilot than show how pretty it will look. You have to prove you can tell a satisfying story within the episode.
I don't know why we abandoned the importance of narrative in pilots?
I don’t see Rocky from the pilot and from the trailer as different characters personally, I see it as seeing him with a whole other side to him.
But that’s just my opinion.
Ah, the only big youtube animation i didn't watch
I'll be back, need to see the show first...
Subbed for your Hazbin review but I feel as if the quality of this review is a little weaker. I can't help but think that, while you do point out perfectly logical inconsistencies, that many of your suggestions would strip the Lackadaisy pilot and the story it's presenting of much of its flair and personality. Yeah, Mordecai could've shot them all instantly... but then what? Would we have gotten that chase scene? Would we have had a story at all? Would 3 less seconds of Rocky's poem make that much of a difference? Would you really have a completely different opinion on whether the pilot effectively communicated the narrative if Rocky held the coffin with two hands instead of one? Should we as an audience really want an animated show that aggressively clings to sterile, real-world logic?
Your term "furry writing" doesn't really mean anything to me and honestly just seems a little insecure, because what you're describing are pretty common tropes that can either be used effectively or ineffectively. So, is the point of this video to convince me the pilot is written poorly, or to CinemaSins all the life out of it? I do appreciate you diving into what could be done differently (thought that was done rly effectively in your Hazbin video) but the alternatives you offer here personally don't convince me there's anything wrong with the writing tbh
I apologize if my frankness is unwelcome, but you seem engaged with your audience so I thought I'd share my thoughts! Would love to see future videos focus more on how certain tropes can be played more effectively, rather than the CinemaSins angle, since it seems like you have some good instincts!!
Yeah, this is one of his weaker videos.
I think he admitted that.
LMAO the cope through this comments is absolutely insane. I don't think this is one of his weaker videos, more so that because this video criticizes and goes neck deep into a more beloved and less offensive IP people take it has being nitpicky. It might not be as thorough as the Hazbin hotel one but that's because dudes reviewing a pilot, not an entire animated series. If you were paying attention to his nitpicks, you would remember that he said that Mordecai needs to be an EFFECTIVE villain in order to actually be threatening to get the plot going. And that involves action, not words. Not to mention the dude literally offered a way to have Mordecai be threatening and still have the chase scene. Also, when it comes to a writing a script, timing is EVERYTHING. Theres no point in wasting time with Rocky reciting a poem when you could be actually introducing your story in a pilot. A lot of these comments complaining about his nitpicks also seem to miss the parts where he explains why he makes those nitpicks in the first place AND offers multiple ways to fix things. That's why dude sets the furry meter because he literally says that this is very common in furry comics, not that stories with furries in it are bad. If anything I'd say this video is lot less mean spirited than his Hazbin one too. But I guess a lot of people mistake "original indie project" for "exempt from any criticism" so I suppose we got a long way to go when it comes to media literacy and critical thinking skills.
I’m sorry, but I cannot agree that has the writing of modern Disney😂😂😂😂😂
Sorry pal, but I really can’t agree with you on that one.
If you’d read enough of the comic the characters actions would make a lot more sense in this pilots, it will make more sense as future episodes come out, you’ve got to be patient in order for the story to fully come out and find out everything.
Excellent video. I’m learning so much. Keep up the good work. Subbed from your Arcane S2 video!
A lot of people are already talking about the points you made, but really I just want to approach this holistically. What are you trying to accomplish here? I struggled to get to the ten minute mark of your video and so far my only reward has been a series of arbitrary complaints disguised as critiques.
-"The creators should establish where Rocky got his knowledge because it doesn't make sense for him to be well-spoken in one segment but scatter-brained in another!" Because people can have conflicting traits within them IRL. Would the episode have been improved with a "Han what? Who are your people?"-level backstory thrown in?
-"If the gig is so important, why did they hire these three to do it when they aren’t competent at it?” An excellent question which might have an interesting answer.
-"Why don't the antagonists just do the most logical thing and have them step away from the car and then execute them?" People don't always do the most strategic move.
-And that doesn't even get into "Well why aren't Rocky and Freckle brothers instead of cousins, that would shave off a line or two of dialogue!" It's the equivalent of looking at a pine tree and saying "Well it's not shaped like a maple, therefore it's objectively a bad tree."
Really I could split hairs over your critiques all day but again, I want to step back and measure what you're even trying to do here. Look, I'm not even saying that you have to like Lackadaisy, or that the pilot is flawless. I do think the pilot is a tad on the slight side myself. But what you've done here is not media criticism. What you've accomplished is the Critical Drinker/EFAP style performative 'criticism' which involves attempting to prove you're smarter than a chosen piece of media. And I can tell that's your goal because of your community post. "One day, people will dread seeing me comment on their videos." You're not interested in provoking any reflection or discussion about the show, you're searching for clout.
I could sit here in your comments and debate the particulars of your arguments back and forth, but again your end goal isn't to evaluate media. It's to build a platform of cynicism. And the only dread you'll end up inspiring is an eyeroll. I urge you, really take a look at what you're doing and ask if that's what you want to build for yourself. If it is I can't help you. But if you really want to learn to criticize media, it's not too late to course correct.
1. They can have conflicting traits, not conflicting knowledge. One cannot recite Shakespeare without reading or hearing Shakespeare first, no matter how quirky they are. Knowledge is gathered trait. It's hard to gather knowledge and still be unable to read. Not impossible, but it's complicated. Why add that complication to your story where you don't have time to add contradictory ideas.
2. Would've been nice to know, chip off some of the useless poem and establish it.
3.They would if you are establishing an intelligent and pragmatic character like Mordecai. If it was just Serafine and Nico, I wouldn't have a problem.
4. Why even mention their familial relationship in this pilot if it has no relevance to the story? While I don't think brother would be any better in this scenario, at least it would offer a bit more speculation than cousins
What I hate is inefficient storytelling. This pilot is establishing wrong and contradictory things and it simply doesn't have the time to do. If they had a little arc where at least one character starts one way and learns something in the end, It would've been a significant improvement. But why waste time on that when we can have car chases, explosions and marvel-like humor?
Lackadaisy follows the same pattern as many shows where the creators aren't trying to tell a story, they are trying to show off how cool or wacky their characters are. Other pilots can do both, so why couldn't this one? While it's not exclusive to furry content, it stands out there most, because it's heavily focused on "Check out my fursona" mentality. Even if Rocky isn't Tracy's fusona, it sure as hell feels like it is. If you look at pilots like "Tales From Scorchwater Valley" or "Ramshackle" you'll see what actual character development looks like, something very lacking in Lackadaisy.
I appreciate your preaching and tone policing and I do my best to keep a fairly light and reasonable tone. I praise what I think is good, critique what I think is bad and offer advice on what I would've done in these situation. That's more than many youtube critics do. Sometimes it can appear harsher, sometimes it's not harsh enough, but the balance between informative and entertaining is tough to figure out, even for me. Yes, I can admit that maybe going scene for scene was indulgent on my part and the video would've been stronger by simply addressing the flaws themselves, but I think the reception from the fandom would've been the same.
And don't worry, you can still enjoy your pscyho cat animation. It's okay. There is a lot to enjoy as I said, but please don't use it as a example for good writing, because I think even you would agree that it isn't the best one.
Thanks, and I'll see you around.
"If the gig is so important, why did they hire these three to do it when they aren’t competent at it?” An excellent question which might have an interesting answer.
Why should I assume there is an interesting answer when the writing is all surface level?
Im back again :o
and this time with some criticism like most comments do
I don't find anything wrong with Rocky being the "main character" cause he is fun and also has potential to grow
And another thing is...this is a pilot
You can judge some things yes and develop opinions, but you can't say for sure that this is how the show is going to be like
(*cough* hasbin- *cough* helluva boss-)
And you don't have to like the pilot, I do but still have some criticism, the problem is that the video kind of became really nit picky and the "furry" stuff is uh...well they just seemed like jokes :p
Not bad video tho
Thanks, I appreciate it. Still trying to find the balance between analysis and humor and sometimes it doesn't land. I think I spent too much time on analyzing it scene by scene, so it appears more nitpicky than I anticipated, but the overall points are still there.
@@RoamingTrend No problem, I still like your vids speaking of which I need to sub-
You might consider checking out the pilot cartoon reality bytes. It's more slapstick focused, but it has surprisingly great sound design and plot structure to establish it's characters
Rocky wasn't crazy in the trailer because he got a brain injury before the pilot
1:28 Mrs. Pepper is Ivy for the people who are confused
9:00 could be that i missed that, but when did anyone say that it was their alcohol? Cause i don't think it was.
I just assumed since they are protecting their turf, right? I mean, that's kind of the problem when I don't know why the villains are even there or care.
The part when she's talking to the the painting suggests in that moment that her husband is dead. It's a moment of endearment. It happens in stories
I know that, but considering she surrounded by crazy characters it only makes her appear like one of them.
@@RoamingTrend is that a bad thing. will she get infected as if other people’s mental health is a bubonic plague-like disease
@@essexistsprobably I don't know how craziness works in this world, only that it's frequent.
@RoamingTrend if you consider a grieving woman reminiscing to a memorial of her dead husband a sign of that person being crazy, you might just not experience enough human interaction my man
These videos have been very helpful for the pilot me and the rest of the crew are working on. Heck one of the first thing me and let’s call them F for privacy sake talked about during the very beginning of the rewrite was the writing of the modern day animation industry and our frustrations with it. And F and our other writer have been doing a fantastic job doing their research into both writing and the topics we want to cover. And how one would portray them in a series or movie basically what this is saying is keep making these videos they are making a difference.
I am quite a fan of Lackadaisy, but also agree the pilot didn’t have the most solid writing. But like you said, later episodes seem to hold more promise for the writing of the story, likely because they’ll have a longer frame of time to tell it. Even if it doesn’t, I’ll still watch it and love it, but it’d be nice to see
I've been working on a "Furry" story/book for several years now, having a 1st draft done and nothing else and that's mainly because of that it the story itself needs a MAJOR overhaul. Characters weren't compelling at all, the main character sucked and wasn't relatable or likeable, and a lot of choices that were from the first draft didn't make sense and needed to be changed. Though this may seem random I'm glad you made your video and hope that I'm able to use it to help out with my own writing as I continue to revamp and overhaul the story (gonna see about tackling it again starting next month)
Is Mordecai voiced by ProZD? Because I think he’s rough here. But yeah I agree, I kinda hate the annoying psycho character trope that’s inundating the medium.
literally all your questions would be answered if your read the comic. I feel like if your going to criticize a peice of media at least KNOW the media. your sugesting changes to the story or character that would directly hinder what the author is trying to do.
lackadaisy especially because not only was the pilot never originally intended to be a pilot.
another thing is- vaugness is lackadaisys biggest plot device. we are thrown into a world with all these characters at their lowest point, and as plot develops we r slowly filled in on how all of them r connected, how they got to where they are, and above all who is involved in the murder of atlas may. its an extremely engaging and ill never forget how invested i was on my first read.
I don't know how other pilots and media manage to tell a good story without needed the audience to read external media? In fact, I'd argue your knowledge of the comic may hinder your view to analyze what is actually shown on screen.
I can also see the inconsistency on the fans, because I keep hearing two contradictory ideas:
1) This is a pilot so it doesn't need a story. It needs to give you a notion of what the show would be about.
2) This was not intended to be a pilot, it was meant to be an animation for the fans who are familiar with the story
Unfortunately both are cope.
All I have to go by is what the pilot is telling me, and while other pilots take care to quickly establish who the characters and what that motivates them, Lackadaisy seems to think it has a free pass. Sorry, not how it works.
@ mabye my veiwing of the pilot is hinderd- but i think lackadaisy does show the basics of the plot- a failing speakeasy during the 1920s prohibition trying to regain their former glory while facing competition from their competitors.
About not needing to rely on external media. your reveiw is about the pitfalls of furry wrighting in lackadaisy. you say all you have to go by is the pilot- but lackadaisy is a comic series and has been since 2006. reading the comic isnt you needing outside media- the comic IS the media.
if your were reveiwing just the pilot i would understand but it seems you wanted to give a critique of lackadaisy as a peice of media overall. if you want to reveiw lacladaisy.. lackadaisy is a comic series.
even if your were just reveiwing the pilot- your asking questions that can be expected to be answered in the show.
im not saying lackadaisy is perfect ofc. for one i can agree that the pilot dose a bad job at showing the characters motives. but i just feel like this reveiw is alot of questions framed as critisisms- the same questions that had me exited to go and read the comic for the first time.
Can't argue with that plot summary! I wonder if we could get some plot doctoring to other webcomics like Etherwood or Unfamiliar
the below was written right before RT talked about the comics,shorts etc. , so take it with some or a bucket of salt. I won't delete the below so this can show my thoughts while i watched this. Again, do not take this as gospel/ hard-critique, just as a thought-flow.
"'Minor'" exposition (spoilers for comics, shorts):
Rocky and the Poem: Poem is in the Comic, and is mostly to show that he is talented in Rhymes and singing. (him Falling off the bridge into the patch of grass, just like the shorts/trailer of Rocky getting stuck on Barbed Wire for Cattle when jumping off a train for his stop, getting his shoulders dislocated as a child during an experiment with Freckle (short), or in the comic.... no i will not spoil most of that, just know he'll bleed in one part(s))
Rocky saying he has "Spagetti-arms": it's an excuse to not dig.
Mordecai: the reason he is there, is bc he formaly worked with the Lackadaisy crew (see short about Ivy's childhood, when her father went to sell his car. (feat. Mordecai, Victor, etc.))
Freckle as the lead: well, he did fail the exam-thing to become a cop (hence his compotence with guns (see comic, certain chapter)), so I can see why youl'd see Freckle as more of a potential Protagonist.
"Why isn't Victor doing the Digging and hauling of the booze?" or sth along those lines: War vet, lost his eye due to sth else if i remember correctly, his health isn't at it's best as it was during Lackadaisy's prime, so he is behind the counter now. (I believe it was due to some scuffle with other gangs? might be wrong here though).
"Mitzy get's a ray of hope": more so reminising the old days, before she lost her husband (see Ivy-flashback-short for a pinch of what her husband was like)
"Rocky is the main character": Imo it's more-so Ivy, with her best friends. Ivy also works day shifts at Lackadaisy, and is alr familiar with most of the staff and the establishment, not as much as Mitzy, duh, but still on a decent lvl. To me the premis is still "how will the old Run-down Speak-easy rise up again, after Mitzy's husbands death?"
I agree with you 100%. Id heard so much hype over this show I found myself questioning it through the whole pilot. Theres nothing to latch onto. There is no way to figure out what these cats are doing in the middle of the night etc the focus is way too heavy on spectacle and visual splendor. Its gorgeous. But as usual, just because we are a good artist doesnt also make us a great writer too. Those two traits are rarely found in the same person
> There is no way to figure out what these cats are doing in the middle of the night
Does everything need to be spilled out explicitly? It's 1920s and they've digging out a crate full of booze out of the ground. It's not hard to put 2 and 2 together even if you don't know anything about the comic.
Look i don't want to argue but you got SO many things wrong here, if you didn’t read the WHOLE comic it's clear you don't Undearstand what's happening here and why the story is like that & not how you would think it is. Also the Character's are not trying to be edgy, i feel like people just can't stand a Character just having a differently personality. I also would like to say more but i aint writing all that💔
EDIT: yea but not to be a hater I actually agree a little on Freckle beeing the Main Character, it sounds interesting
5:01 also that's clear sarcasm like come on.
13:33 people when a different Character:
Ngl I feel like this guy be hating every chance he gets 🙁🙏
you know it'd be interesting to see the main character's degeneration from episode one to how he is in the pilot, then to see how that either spirals down into miserable chaos, or a climb to redemption, maybe both split between the characters
It’s primarily holding up on having a furry audience. Why then should it avoid ‘furry’ writing? Superficial kisch is one of the hallmarks of furry design an is part of the reason why furry art is such a liberating medium for escapism. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
Yeah, and if it avoided the furry tropes it may he held up by people other than furries.
Yeah.. It would have been better to make some things tighter.
Like Freckle lifting the sarcofagus with one hand while Rocky has to use two (Although we could make a joke that Freckle is just that carefull of a kid that it looks like Rocky is stronger than him, but suddenly when he releases a hand, the coffin falls down fora moment, and then we see Rocky gritting his teeth and a shake fomr his arms, while Freckle just breethes in and puffs his chest, to showcase the difference between the two in their job to prevents the coffin from falling down).
Making Freckle more of an Berserk in latency rather than a cackling maniac (rage induece Maniacs are under represented. And heck, in retrospect it could give him more depht) and of course, Making Mordecai to shoot the cargo while the trio were going to Wick´s Mine, making Rocky to break focus on his wrestle with Ivy, and ultimatly making th ecar spin and crash into the shack. Thus giving a good reason to cause Rocky to enter his psycho state.
P: Ugghh... What now, great leader?
R: ... hehehe.. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! *gets out*
P: well... what about you the-
F: I´M FINE!!!
(thus giving more reason why Ivy is good for him, she is the water of life to cool him down. Heck, I could make him apologize as he tries to explain why he acted the way he is, to be calmed down by Ivy in the moment.
F: Sorry! Sorry... I just have a fire.. a Burning, HOT fire that-
P: It´s okay Freckle, we´re both in one piece, and that´s what matters.
F: Thank you... buut, I-I mean there´s a fire in the Engine chamber!
And so we focus on him having some self shame as she gets out, implying this isn´t the first time he gets those outbursts.)
But yeah, Mordecai should have more actions to show that he is the only competent, like that time that I mention where the disposed the trio from the Booze cargo, and most importantly, when he loses the patience on Seraphine and Nico for ruining the job. They were suposed to get the cargo, but if it wasn´t for him, the Lackadaisy crw would have got it, meanwhile, all they did was to making things complicated with their own reckless behavior.
And then, have Seraphine to talk back at Mordecai for his inaction to kill Pepper, since he had two chances to do it (I will include a previous scene where he was poinitng at Ivy, and later on he aimed at Rocky and Freckle) but he didn´t.
S: Well tell me, have you babysit that girl while you *served* to that haughty hag?
M: That is none of your concern, *Witch.*
S: Hmmmm... Say Nico, who is the liability here? two unorthodox professionals? Or some nostalgic suit, who gets *sentimental for old times*?
N: Heh... Let him find out, he´s the smart one, isn´t it?
And later on, on his call with Asa, it coudl be explained.
M: And they double deal with the Stragglers of Lackaisy of all things.. They´re Clumsy and likely to call atention.. And if may say it, my.. current partners are not making this easy to me.
A: What about the Savvoy? Are they too... "Clumsy" and "Likely to call atention" for you, you muddy kid? *Heheheheehehe*
M: (Mordecai makes a face of annoyance at the laughter of his boss) But take this in consideration, Mr Sweet. With the Feds in town-
A: Exactly. Recently they´ve been catching our guys, one by one. These dogs are sticking their noses so deep that I´ve been running low of personale. So You will have what I can get to you. And figure out how to deal with ´em...
And so... for now, that´s whay I can say for now.
Yeah, I feel like it's a bit unfair to imply that Digital Circus is all spectacle with no story. And it's super unfair to put it with Hazbin Hotel and Murder Drones. It's certainly goofy yes, but it does have a story to tell. And characters do get their own moments for them to develop. To be honest I feel it strikes a pretty good balance with comedy and serious moments.
While your critique is good for the pilot in a vacuum, as someone who read the comics, it's pretty frustrating to see all the points that would have been negated by them. The pilot's plot is, in my opinion, far worse than the comics, and your view of the work would greatly improve if you were to read them. Based on that, I'll list my criticisms to this video.
0:58 - Tracy Butler is not a Furry and, while having anthropomorphic animals, the comic lacks the fandom culture and special "weird" qualities that make it "Furry". It's just a comic about cats.
2:30 - While Tracy acknowledges her indulgence in unnecessary poetry and lyricism in footnotes, it is important that it is one of Rocky's main defining features. Along the comics there are many references towards his affinity for spontaneous and elaborate rhyming, and, given his relatively stable family, it wouldn't be unfitting for him to have had access to English literature. Also, Rocky isn't just an "idiot", he is (in words of the author) a "shining blue star of idiotic brilliance, or brilliant idiocy", to describe the duality in culture and silliness in his character, and "Hapfamschfeel" isn't just a long word, but one exotic for an English speaker, making it reasonable even for someone literate in English to have trouble reading and/or pronouncing it.
8:00 - Many of the things you qualify as "ineffective" are there because of the chaotic and laid-back personality of the Savoy siblings, making it, in my opinion, perfectly fitting, not to mention Mordecai calling out on these behaviour.
9:40 - Rocky is the driver, and Calvin also knows how to drive. Ivy took the car because the other ones where on the floor getting shot at. Also, making her say she didn't get taught how to drive wouldn't make things better, as someone who knows how to drive doesn't drive ~600m in reverse.
10:20 - They don't shoot because they don't just want to win, they want to "have fun". While the comics gave a more realistic depiction of them being lethal AND unhinged, the pilot's version stablishes a coherent behaviour with them, in many if not all occasions, choosing thrill over effectivity, to better contrast with Mordecai's character and personality.
11:40 - I see it as the main point in the dynamic betweem Mordecai and the siblings. Due to their different approaches, they can't get their work done, as they go different ways instead of cooperating, while the Lackadaisy crew are deeply invested in each other.
12:30 - the point of having the car and shootout as the introduction to the Marigold crew is to stablish the siblings' volatile and sudden nature. Showing them would undermine the surprise and alienate the viewer from the characters.
12:50 - If we find out, what's the point of this criticism? I feel this is just adding words without meaning.
13:00 - Small detail on my part: In the time the story is in, aiming a pistol with both hands was almost, if not completely unheard of. Showing Mordecai aiming with one hand would be more accurate, but him aiming two handed may be a way of showing marksmanship to a modern spectator, as it is the standard way in most modern armies and law forces.
15:20 - Rocky isn't the protagonist. If you watch it thinking he is, he is not a good protagonist. All the points you make afterwards are solved with this in mind.
18:15 - It's explained in the comics that Rocky's smile is inherently unnerving and he isn't fit at all to deal with people.
19:30 - That is not hope, it's nostalgia, which is expressed with her dead husband being there.
20:05 - It isn't meant to be satisfying. It expresses decadence, which is the point of all the storyline.
Overall, most issues stem from the "pilot" being meant for people who read the comic. It doesn't show much plot strength, because it's just the treat of seeing the comic characters moving. While all of this is valid criticism and it doesn't really hold up as a pilot, I found some of your arguments to be unnecessary, redundant or in bad faith. You can correct my points if you want, but I feel all of this is you trying to link lackadaisy to your idea of "furry writing", which, although can be real criticism and may be present due to external writing, feels kinda forced in a piece not linked in the slightest to the furry fandom. If you read all of this, thank you anyway, and I hope for a response.
Edit: After thinking about it for a while, I feel that your idea of "furry writing" leaves a lot to be desired. Your 3 points (Cool/Quirky OCs, Unfunny gags and Edginess) are mostly found within general fandom/internet culture, and were a main staple of the Furry Fandom mostly in the 2000s and early 2010s. It doesn't help that you give weird examples, as for them all except one being comedy strips and the fucking zootopia abortion comic. Maybe it doesn't really help that most furry comics are either explicit or short gags, but it would be dishonest to leave out the hundreds of visual novels that now compose the greatest part of literary work in the furry fandom. It is a shame that I'm note one for VNs, as I wouldn't be able to cite any of them, but I'm pretty sure if you ask furries for good literary material from the fandom, they won't point you to a 4 panel strip. As for the criticizing of the humour in the fandom, I think you aren't taking into account the deeply neurodivergent nature of the fandom, as it is a main component of it's comedy culture, and, being an outsider, it can come off as just "bad writing".
I vote reading the source material rather than watching the pilot for the full context. It gives more information to you if you have a full picture. It's not a critique, not a genuine thing. I'd love to see
I love this guy! He has a way of making it a bit more obvious that he is developing a style for his videos. Even if I don't agree with some of the criticism, everything here is a valid.
Keep doing what you're doing man.
Thanks!
18:54 what the music set the mood I mean after all it wasn’t 100% failure, but it wasn’t 100% of a victory
While this guy has some criticism, 80% of this video just seems to be nitpicks, or just very subjective. Remember, Lackadaisy as of now is just a pilot, and suffers no more, if not less problems than most of the big indie animation pilots, and is the best looking visually in my opinion. Also, I would recommend the comics. They're neat.
P.S. nah, this guy a furry. he ain't fooling anyone.
80%?! I'd say it's closer to 35% 😅
P.s. Am not!
"just very subjective" you do realize that all of art is subjective right?
3:08 rocky writes his poems on spot while singing them.
9:35
I think he meant driving backwards.
To me I did not make sense at first but read the comics and watch the mini episodes and things will make more sense
Honestly yeah since the beginning i disliked Lackadaisy, it was quite literally lacking substance in the story and the style was pushing the quality forward, i really hope the writing gets better for the full scope
Can Tracy butler hire you to fix her scripts?
That would help her out to fix this mess of a Disney film.
I do enjoy the animation though!
Haha, creators don't usually hire critics to help them out. But I am always happy to help out, even if it's just script consulting.
@@RoamingTrend Don't worry man. If me and my friends ever become famous, we will hire you.🫡🫡🫡🫡
6:28 you do know I am seeing right now in the video here that they have crowbars, right?