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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 เม.ย. 2022
- Patreon: / tony4you
Twitter: @Tony4YouYT
Edited by @Lamesama
Izanagi and Izanami are important figures to Japanese mythology and are integral to the plots of many SMT and Persona games. A cornerstone of Japanese culture, being the creator gods of the world, and a main plot point for the original digital devil story. From nothing came the first deities and all creation afterwards. Japanese culture is a fascinating topic with an extremely long history, but the creation myth is something not many people know intimately. From the Spirits came Izanagi and Izanami, and from Izanagi and Izanami came the world. There is tragedy even amidst the gods, let’s learn about the myriad gods of Japan. With all the history in real life, shin megami tensei does it's best to adapt a tale so important to the region of Japan, and I will do my best to explain it. For smt they take liberties for a lot of demons, and while I cover a lot of smt lore on the channel that is amazing, Izanagi and Izanami are some of the few demons so integral to the plot of a game. Persona has tended to be on the more Japanese mythology side rather than the Abrahamic religion side of shin megami tensei, and while I am less familiar with Japanese mythology it is definitely an amazing suite of stories. With persona 4 lore drawing inspiration from hundreds of years of mythology I'm glad Izanagi and Izanami are so interesting and faithfully depicted. Starting from the original books of digital devil story, through shin megami tensei - even if it isn't too integral to smt lore -, and finally the best persona game: Persona 4. The divine creators Izanagi and Izanami were a requested topic for the smt lore series and I'm happy I could finally get around to it. This is also a summary of the Japanese creation myth as well and a short synopsis of Shintoism as a whole, but I couldn't stuff too much in the title of the video. Thanks for watching this Tony4You, have a good one - เกม
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Moral of the story: When your wife says "Give me five more minutes, I'm still putting my face on!" Give her all the time she needs.
Normal Izanagi is Nakajima before the bullies.
Magatsu-Izanagi is Nakajima after the bullies.
SMT 1 moment
@@Tony4You more like MT1 moment
This is the moment when Walter White became Heisenberg
Babe wake up, new Tony4You vid just dropped
One thing I noticed while going over different mythologies is that gods tend to get aspects of humanity and become more relatable that way. This can be seen with more detail on the greek pantheon, but we can see some glimpse of it here on Izanagi. Losing your patience over waiting is something associated with mortality, because we have a deep relationship with time(we die after time passes after all), while a immortal being simple would not have that concept. The deities that were born before the couple have a more aloof attitude and barely have any representation. I think that happens merely because the humans of the time didn't really imprint on the gods they created. From what I can gather, the more "humane" a god is, the more tales and myths it seems to have and more... "appreciated" (for the lack of better word) it seems to be overall.
There is something of note to say to mythologies that keep their god more aloof and detached, but I'm afraid I would be getting people upset by going further on this time so I will drop it. Since you touched on the 3 noble children I guess we can expect a video on them in the near future Tony?
Very interesting. Humanizing the gods makes sense for Shinto and you can see that in many other mythologies as well.
The demigods of greek culture are a great example. There are many stories, books and movies based on them, which can reach a state of myth after the names of their creators fade and "become canon"
If there is one part of Izanagi and Izanami's myth that never manages to somewhat infuriate me is Izanagi's lack of patience when going back to Yomi far when it was NOT the time.
Immortality really doesn't do much for lack of patience eh? I feel bad for Izanami
@@Tony4You he could have just played shogi with the other kamis instead
@@antonypm7659 wasn't he the only kami back then?
@@chill29 well he could have played with the lord of Yomi I guess
@@antonypm7659 must be awkward when his soon-to-divorced wife is there too
Woah... to me the whole "eating from the fruit of the dead then having to stay there" really blows my mind, it perfectly mirrors the greek tragedy of persophne. Human beings truly are connected... there really is something to that whole collective unconscious thing.
Yeah I cut it from the video but the hades pomegranate is an extremely interesting parallel and makes you think of some commonalities between mythology
It's like dragons or even more impressive, the concept of "a rabbit on the moon" that are in a great number of mythologies and stories from around the world that makes you think in how similar our understanding of the world is despite being so apart geographically speaking.
It's simmilar but not really, this is only based on what I know so do correct me if I am wrong.
In the case of Persephone, it's only told that she was given pomegranates and that bound her, how that works is missing (like damaged) in the original source. So it could be a marriage ceremony thingy, because pomegranates are associated with Aphrodite and love. It could also be a fruit of the dead, pomegranates are also associated with blood and body in related myths around that part. Also as far as the myth is concerned, only Demeter was against the marriage while not all translators translates Hades giving Persephone the pomegranates as tricking her, so it might be an iffy translation thing.
In case of izanami and izanagi, it's more clear to be about not eating food in yomi as everything in yomi is rotten and has maggots so you stay there if you eat food there. Like eat rotten food and die situation.
If I missed something do tell. It would be my pleasure if you learnt something new but it would be much better if I learnt something as well.
@@monkey_blu well the ancient people were quite connected, even more so than we expect, like fresh fish from Mediterranean sold in Indus valley levels of connected. That's why the mythologies of afro-eurasia are so simmilar.
Dragons as you mentioned are very unique case indeed but what defines a dragon from your perspective, because i have seen people call hydra, chimera, ananta, behemoth dragons despite
being wildly different
@@spandandasgupta5773 How about Mandalas? They pop up all over the world, from south America, to europe, then all the way to Asia.
If you read about Jung and the connections he discovered between different cultures, I promise you, it will blow you away.
I'm a believer of the theory that Narukami and Marie are reincarnations of Izanagi and Izanami respectively. Probably why the game pushes them so much and why Marie seems to have an otherwise inexplicable connection with him. It would also explain why his Shadow in the anime is a multitude of TVs - could be representing the accumulation of "filth" from Yomotsu Hirasaka that Izanagi accumulated when he was there.
@Akhron I mean, that's my point. We know Marie is an incarnation of Izanami, so it would stand to reason that she is subconsciously attracted to Yu because he is akin to Izanagi
Interesting observation honestly. I'll have to look into the anime since I never watched it, but I am inclined to agree
Tony 4
Aka Tony: Love and Thunder
Featuring Izanagi and Izanami
Wow, what a coincidence! I just started up a new playthrough of P4G the other day.
And i just watched nakajima movie yesterday
Thanks for the great video!
It still surprises me that, for all their importance in the Digital Devil Story novels that essentially started the series, and to a lesser extent the first Megami Tensei game featuring them, that Izanagi and Izanami haven't played an important role in a mainline Megaten game.
Especially Izanami. She is quite literally the titular Megami of Megami Tensei. You'd think she'd have a more important role in at least some mainline games.
I think the only time I remember her having some kind of important role is in SMTIV Apocalypse. Granted, it's only in a sidequest...
Yeah they pivoted to Abrahamic religion which is ok, but I wish they would bring them back at some point
These are the people we need to blame for anime.
Enemy spotted
You meant americans who dropped the bomb?
@@jamalisujang2712 what do you mean?
@@absolutezerokyukyokami2288 it is undrniable that anime and otaku culture stems from the destruction of japan in 2nd world war, right?
@@jamalisujang2712 okay I just don't understand what are you saying because what happened in World War 2 anime have been on the decline
This was a good coverage of them like always. I think the way you described Marie was satisfactory at the end there, since the origin of Kusumi no okami seems to have multiple origin points that even the Japanese side of the internet hotly debate. Keeping with what's explicitly states in the game keeps the izanami part covered without the video going down a huge rabbithole.
Wait I should have posted this with my other account. Dang, wasted opportunity
Hey thanks Hiding! Yeah there was a lot I could have went into with Marie specifically, but for the sake of brevity I omitted the speculation
@@Tony4You ,,. M. B.
Another appereance of Izanami that its kinda cool its in IV:A where she is a National Defense Diety living in the underworld of japan only sealed by her medium, that its supposed to be the thing to make humans able to control her xd.
Oh interesting, I'm sorry I missed that. I'll read up on it!
I think her summoning was cancelled because it needed her medium's death
Question.
How about Kikuri-hime?
According to Megaten Research, Kikuri-hime (Shirayama-himie) is well known about her Mediation between Izanagi & Izanami & through her, both Kami were able to reconcile...
To you, Is this something True or something else?
The kami: *breathes* , *gives birth to another child*
The kami: oh come on, what the hell.
nakajima and yu narukami intensifies
Aw yeah, a Tony4Me.
One thing I really appreciated Persona 4 is how it's consistent at being a modern life parallel of this myth TV world being Land of Death and shadows and Teddy being Yokai even most characters Persona's are deitys born from Izanagi and somewhere I read that first two child of Izanami and Izanagi were deformed but after doing the ritual right 3rd child was born normal like Adachi and Namatame being the other two has deformed ideas about truth and 3rd one being the protagonist
SMTVI Ft. Jack from Stranger of Paradise: Final Fantasy Origin as the Chaos Rep and . . .
SMTVI Ft. Yu Narukami from Persona 4 Golden as the Law Rep
Atlus but good. Please add Jack
There's a teacher in gekkukan High school tells about izanami and izanagi
Yeah I quote him in my persona 4 video as well
Will you do SMT lore on Izangi’s children Susano’o, Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi?
Musubi, I know that word. That's from that one Persona spinoff game with the Reasons and the Red Hot Chili Peppers kid running around shirtless in the desert.
Hey wait, you're right!
Yeah, it does ring a bell
After finishing persona4 golden i researched into the meaning of all the Gods and deities to truly understand the story and izanami's purpose and this is what made become a fan of SMT so its nice to see a video about this
Can you do hindu gods next please? Specifically the trimurti (brahma, vishnu, shiva) . Shiva is a popular demon in smt and krishna (vishnu reincarnation) plays an important role in smt 4 and brahma is a final boss in digital devil saga.
I would love to see that as well
Please yes
I love these lore videos. Can you do one for The Four Heavenly Kings?
I was thinking of that for sure! It's high on the list
Very much enjoy the very slight fade in of Jack when you said chaos
He's the one that really killed Chaos
Just found out about you channel and I am absolutely loving it, I really like how you are giving us history lessons in such a fun way
Thanks so much! Glad you're watching and enjoying. History is a passion for a lot of people but it can be fun for everyone!
Your videos are all well organized and easy to follow. I always learn something, even on subjects I thought I knew a lot about. Really appreciate what you do!
I really appreciate it honestly. I'm glad you enjoy and hope you stick around!
Man I love these videos
Hey I appreciate it! Hope to see you in the next videos!
Mothman
My man
Fun fact: Kami has 3 different ways of writing and thus, meaning
紙 : Paper
髪 : Hair
神 : God
上 : Shirokami
Yes, they are all "Kami"
I’ve been waiting for this.
Good to have you back! I'm talking about you this video lol
@@Tony4You YYYEEEAAAHH!! 😎 I got so excited for this I almost bullied my sister into hiding into a cave and plunging the earth into a seemingly endless night.
to me they really mirror on Orpheus, Eurydice, Persephone Zeus and Athena from greek mythology to me with the story like Orpheus is Izanagi he travels to the underworld to find his wife that died tragically only for something bad to happen and them being impatient somewhat that cause them to lose there wife's again in of course differently but similar in what the goal they had in the story, and Izanami is like Eurydice and Persephone, Eurydice dying because she was bit by a snake and ending up in the underworld and Orpheus goes to find her, and Persephone ate fruit in the underworld like Izanami did and they couldn't leave because of that but the different ways too, and then you got the Birth of Athena,
Like she comes out of Zeus's head but she is sort of like how Amaterasu was created from Izanagi, I do like Greek Mythology sense i know it so well and it being taught to me a million times in my school to know about there stories and seeing some Similarity's between the two mythologies but of course different just peeks my interest ya know, properly not the first who said it but ya.
I agree! The similarities between mythologies is really interesting and a rabbit hole you can go down for ages if you're not careful lol.
i would be nice if you could make a video about the lore of the atma avatars in dds (varuna, vayu)
pd: nice video, it was really interesting :D
Seconding, that would be rad!
I actually really like that idea! I'll add it to the list
If Varuna doesn't actually have scythes on his arms, I will be very disappointed
We love Shinto, Gurugamesh!
Izamami 🖐😩
I didn't know there were other gods before Izanagi and Izanami, thought they were the firsts
Would you do a video about the Trimurti and their partners? More info on my favourite demons would be amazing
Japanese lore has a lot more to it than I initially thought. I'll look into the Trimurti for sure as well!
I would love a video on the difference between Lucifer, satan, satanael and samael. I’m very confused about their roles in SMT except for Lucifer and kinda satan.
Definitely on the list! Lucifer is such and interesting character
@@Tony4You great. looking forward to it and any other topic you cover.
They are also very important in Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei the original book.
I've also noticed that each mainline game seems to have a female companion who turns out to be a powerful spirit which I'm guessing is a vague reference to Izanami.
Oh hey that's me.
I've got to say, my favorite SMT version of Izanami is in SMT4 Apocalypse, but I think that's just because she was my first endgame-caliber demon.
Yeah her Nine design is very cool
Perhaps do one on the person in your walls
My favorite version of Izanami has to be from SMT4.
Nine, then
Now do Creatures Of Kirgizstan 😁
*hears tony mention kami and instantly thinks of dbz*
I was thinking the whole thing during scripting lol
@@Tony4You niiice and now I'm suddenly in the mood to watch some teamfourstar
This is a good example of “not conflating anime with mythologies from actual cultures”.
A true Nakajima moment
@Tony4You do you plan on doing a video talking about one of the personas from Persona 5 or one of the spin-offs of Persona 5? I do find Kasumi’s persona in Royal to be interesting since her name is the French version of Cinderella and her true persona is Ella which is the real name of the fairy tale princess. As a side note Cinderella was a derogatory nickname given to her by her wicked stepsisters because she would sleep in soot by the fireplace.
I cover personas in my Meaning behind the persona series, check it out! really love the persona lore as well
Greek gods and titans as well as Egyptian gods married their siblings on multiple occasions. I guess if you're divine marrying siblings is not taboo. :P
Hey I won't judge. Family means something different in the heavenly realm
Now I want a special DMC V dlc story where you help out Tsukuyomi finish what his father started, get Izanami out of Yomi via giving her three items that will cleanse her of the curse and restore her back to her divine glory, that being a sacred plate of ambrosia from the Greek Branch, a bottle of sparkling Soma from the Hindu Branch and radiant robes woven by Asherah herself, also kicking the absolute shit out of the Lord of Yomi because... seriously, Izanagi may be immortal, but that does not mean he has an eternal patience and atleast... SPECIFY how long it usually takes. Also introduces Susano'O also disguising as a human to help out and itching to finally see his mother.
It's amazing how ancient civilizations had creation stories that were so beautiful and connected so well to reality. We were so much smarter back then.
any plan for egyptian myths and demons
I could add them to the list, they really are interesting!
@@Tony4You they are and they are really short
depending on what u want to cover
and keep up ur good work i really enjoy ur vids
I cant say Izanagi isnt at fault but i wonder how long it was for him to wait. If it was 100s of years then i cant say it would have been avoided. Man might be immortal but he isnt buddha.
That is interesting. We don't know the exact time frame, or even if Izanami was ever going to get out the same way. Makes you think
Izanagi and Izanami breathe a little too heavy and kids start popping out like fucking rabbits.
1:07
,shoes, What else?
nam's compendium thumbnail
He helped me with the thumbnail lol
True xd
It amazes me how the one connecting thread between all races and religions and sacred stories and fairytales is basically "women are terrible and will destroy you."
Wtf humans. Seriously 🤦♀️
Whoa! Algorithm comment!
So izanagi saw his wife without makeup and started running?
Given everything about izanagi, there seems to be a tangible connection between narukami and nakajima..........that's wrong on so many levels.
2:06 chaos: that man.......loves me.......SO MUCH. 😍
"Susanoo" roughly translates to "snot man" /jk
It's kinda fucked up how the woman talking first made them cursed with cursed children.
Welcome to humanity. You often find that ancient civilizations have more (not all still) respect for women, and as they continue, you find that over time these societies lose respect for women.
Yeah it was a product of it's time I suppose, the whole story was unfair to Izanami
Honestly a great example of this is the story of Nuwa, the mother goddess of humans in chinese myth. In ancient times, they worshipped and cherished her, but overtime as the empires slowly became more patriarchal (bleh I hate saying that word) you will find that the storytellers and lorekeepers of those times will try and add a man into Nuwas life since they obviously didnt have much respect for women during those times (and even today still). I believe his name was Fuxi? Either way, any Chinese person who isn't a ccp supporter or puppet will say that only Nuwa was the origin.
People wonder why Yu is a lady's man. Izanagi had a whole bunch of babies, though with one woman but they were on break but.. old habits
3rd Here ❤
Im glad yu washed the taint
Do lilm
Something like that might becoming sooner than you think!
Izanagi made the best choice his wife was in the wrong 🤷🏾♂️
I just realized that blazblue has a lot of similarities to the shinto mythos