It just sounds like they read each other wrong. Jim was waiting for Batista to show initiative and come out his shell. Batista was waiting for a certain type of education, slightlt different to what he got. They were both waiting for a cue that they didn't really give each other.
Exactly, and it happens more often than people think. Someone who is just reserved and keeps to themselves might appear disinterested from outside, while they are actually willing to learn but think they will eventually be guided like everyone else.
Maybe Batista didn't feel comfortable telling a WWE main roster superstar Kane all the spots he wanted to do. Which on one hand is understandable. On the other hand it's like well do you want to get over or not? Then it's like "man get a load of Leviathan he wanted get ALL of his shit in on me what a prick." We all weren't there so who really knows but it's apparent that no one gelled together back then.
On the complete interview Batista said Fit Finley woke him up with the "what's your problem!? (are you gonna get it or don't!?)" so yeah in a sense Jim was right when he says Dave looked maybe not that motivated by his low key attitude...
I think your explanation is the problem with 99% of most relationships or relationships that came close to happening but never did. Both parties are waiting for a cue to initiate that neither gives but both desire. Then when it doesn't happen, both are mad at each other for committing the same "failure to act" without being consciously aware of it. Good explanation...
This is one of those cases where I can see both sides. Jim wanted to protect Batista because he was already starting older than most, and was injury prone. So he gave him a gimmick to minimize his mileage, but also allowed him to wrestle long matches when appropriate. But then Batista wanted to be more than that, and wanted more out of the wrestling business, and felt that key benefited from working with other people more. It was just two opposing philosophy's clashing.
Was actually about to comment that same thing haha. Is interesting thing to think about cause it is just two opposing philosophy's and both are very valid
Dave was crap who thought he was Lou Thesz and Jim knew he was nothing. Jim got proved right since he needed to become Triple HGH's boy to become anything
He says something kinda similar in interviews in regards to his acting career. That he doesn't want to just be typecast as a big, musclebound, gorilla. Dave sees himself as more than that but he also thinks of himself as a big, musclehead too. It's all so contradictory 😂
I see both sides. Dave wanted to grow as a character and performer and wanted to be more versatile. Jim wanted to keep his value as a star by not overexposing him.
The problem is that this barista guy had *ZERO* talent. He was a body guy, nothing more. Couldn’t talk, couldn’t work, couldn’t act, couldn’t do anything besides pose. He was an old, wrinkly, failed bodybuilder who excelled at one thing: brownnosing, and he went to work on Triple Nobody’s ta!nt, which is the lone reason he got pushed (ironically, also the only reason Triple Nose got pushed)
Yeah fr i mean he's really passionate about the wrestling business when you love something so much you can pick out the most specific moments in time he reminds me of my grandpa
The problem is that this barista guy had *ZERO* talent. He was a body guy, nothing more. Couldn’t talk, couldn’t work, couldn’t act, couldn’t do anything besides pose. He was an old, wrinkly, failed bodybuilder who excelled at one thing: brownnosing, and he went to work on Triple Nobody’s ta!nt, which is the lone reason he got pushed (ironically, also the only reason Triple Nose got pushed)
I feel the best example today of what Jim was trying to prevent for Batista from ever becoming is Brian Cage who should be able to beat 2-3 at a time and looks incredible but instead he chooses to go 20 minutes with guys half his size. Their resumes should prove Jim was right in his way of teaching
I’m glad Jim didn’t dig into Dave here. This feels like a mix of miscommunication and Dave not wanting to step on Jim’s toes and be seen as a problem. I hope they get to talk face to face one day. They both ultimately did everything they wanted to do in life.
I agree. Batista always comes across as a guy who did get the business and respect it immensely. None of this is due to either side being idiots or douches.
@@redactedandredactedaccesor7290 created them partially? Brock was a beast either way, Vince fought for him when he left the company; Orton was always an HHH and Flair guy; Cena was almost fired if not for Stephanie discovering him; Now, bastista says this. He can credit himself with the likes of Shelton, and where is he now? Do not delude yourself.
Let's see, when Batista went to WWE he was D-Von's silent muscle, then he shifted to being HHH's muscle in evolution. He wasn't having matches that were much longer than what Jim would have been doing as Leviathan in OVW for a while.
Batista in Evolution as THA ANIMAL was still a far cry from him eventually feuding with Rey Mysterio in what seemed like at least 3 ppv matches in a row them putting on Giant-vs-Luchador-clinics because Rey Mysterio was 'supposed to be mah frendddd'-- Batista ended up becoming pretty good in the ring (much better than John Cena IMHO) but he had to learn to crawl (and squash jobbers in 1 minute) before he could sprint (work with Rey to make springboard bulldogs look good)
@@teecakes The Animal was more or less a Leviathan 2.0. That was it. Notice that whenever he wrestled, he was always in less than five minute matches or with someone who could help him in the ring i.e. Kane or The Undertaker? It wasn't until 2006 when he finally was able to go full thirty minute matches.
@@dustinsmith8658 I can get that, the stare that could eat your soul. Just edit in an aggressive camera shake and a red filter, and suddenly you’ve got something demonic. 😂
@@dustinsmith8658that's just his natural personality.. I ran into him at a brewery when he livee in Cincinnati a few years ago. He smiled and was nothing but respectful the whole time.
It would be fascinating to hear Batista and Corny sit down and talk about this on camera. They would both be cordial, I'm not looking for a fight, but I want to hear them talk about this kind of thing to eachother
@@RandalfElVikingo With Cena would be fire. But let's be honest, the very first guy that needs to sit down with Jim on an interview is CM Punk. That interview would make more numbers than WrestleMania
@@RandalfElVikingo Why with Cena? Jim and Cena got along. It's Orton who needs to sit with Jim since he was acting like he didn't need to wrestle and wasn't motivated
@@j86485 I enjoy Cornette when he talks about things he likes too. Cornette saw Cena during a HoF and they shared some words but he seems proud of him. Something like Paul Bearer with Cornette interview.
Except Jim tries to make Batista sound like a huge pussy every chance he gets calling him meek, needing his hand held, saying he was cold all the time, etc.
It took Triple H and Evolution to make Batista a star. Dave wasn't getting anywhere near the top until he hit the Raw roster. I think Jim did him a favour by trying to protect him while he was very green.
Batista was already getting pushed before Evolution. He got a PPV match against Kane at the end of 2002. And he was in the final four of the 2003 Royal Rumble, with Brock, Kane and Taker.
It's not much of a feud because both Jim and Dave respect each other as a person and what they've accomplished. But this is the only Jim "feud" that I know where I completely understand both sides.
It seems like a damned if you do/damned if you don’t situation for Batista. If he would’ve been more aggressive he would be labeled an asshole and difficult to work worth. There’s countless wrestling stories where a new guy tries to take initiative and is looked down on by the veterans and office and put in their place. Seems like Batista did the ol’ keep your mouth shut and your ears open that Jim always talks about but that still wasn’t good enough
As Jim has himself said in some other clips, "....both of those things could be true at the same time." Jim as a business owner was pragmatic and smart with having Batista only do what he could do safely, without hurting the legitimacy of the company and equally importantly, his own prospects. Batista on the other hand could still justifiably feel that had "he" been given more of a hands on learning opportunitiy with more guidance and area to try diff things in his OVW days....then his rise to the top might just have been quicker...and longer.
I don't think batista complained that he wasn't a star, he complained that he only wrestled squash matches and never got to cut promos so he didn't learn or get better. I don't see how which people he wrestled changes that@@RandalfElVikingo
This is definitely a case of both sides being true. Jim, as the booker, saw Batista’s limited in ring work at the time and age and booked him appropriately. Batista wanted to learn more to improve his in ring work and was waiting to be taught to be able to do more.
At the end of day, Batista benefitted from both educations, which is the point of great teaching and learning. Ultimately, Dave made a career out of clothesline, spear, spinebuster, thumbs up and down and a powerbomb, so the squash side fitted to his own personality was the evolution, pardon the pun. I think if Dave looked bad, I think Jim teaching him that concept of match snd nailing a few basics helped him far more in nailing Batista than he perhaps realises. And yes, HHH spotted the opportunity and helped him get mainstream over, because HHH was more in tune with what gets over in WWE because it's his playground. Jim had the underlying wrestling concept and psychology, HHH had the cherry on top and the sprinkles. Much like the Bloodline, Heyman has the psychology, HHH adds the execution.
All of this happened because Batista said a bunch of unfavorable things about OVW in his book. So, Jim fired back in kind. I’m from the Louisville area and was a weekly watcher of OVW. Batista was managed by Jim’s wife, and everyone could tell that Jim LOVED Lavithian. If Batista never said those things in his book, Jim would have been praising him all these years like he has with every other OVW alumni… with the exception of Santino lol.
That’s a simple way of putting it but yes. Dave wanted more of foundation not to be taught how to do a monster gimmick. All monsters don’t have to be the same. It would be cool to get a Bane like monster. A monster that’s very intelligent and articulate but when it’s time to go he destroys you.
John Cena left the Prototype gimmick in developmental at around the same time; was there really an expectation at the time for Batista to continue the Leviathan gimmick once he got called up to WWE? In the end, things worked out for him - he got to main event WrestleMania before Cena or Orton did, after all.
No gimmick really stays from company to company, And Cena is a good point to compaire to Batista. Batista said he wanted to go long matches and talk a lot on the mic. Cena did that when he was called up to Raw. And from Cenas own story, he was about to be cut later on. They told him he would be cut after Wrestlemania. But then on a over seas trip Stephanie M heard him freestyle rapping to others on the plane. Then they give Cena the thug life gimmick.
@@Kratosx23 I think precisely because he's so respectful and professional Chris Van Vleet would get a pretty good interview from Jim Cornette. I think more people would understand Jim's point of view. Chris wouldn't be out to get him or try to create controversy for views or anything like that.
I feel like this is a tale of two disconnects: the first one being between what Corny saw in him and Batista had to offer. The second was in what Corny saw in him and what Stamford needed of him. Finlay, actually being on the ground as a Producer, understood what WWE needed of Batista and was able to help develop him in that kind of way. And, with that understanding, it finally clicked.
watch the show where he goes out with bear grylls for some rock climbing 😂 Batista came off like a chronically online 12 yo who's never been outside lol
No, it wasn't worse than Deacon Batista. Leviathan was a cross between Goldberg and a Demon like character that was led by Sinn because he was cold on the mic back then.
@@t.jefferson6365yeah the gimmick worked why would you have this big jacked demon try and wrestle a 30 minute classic? did batista think him being that green that he would have benefited from showing off his lack of experience in the ring? its so weird you got a good easy gimmick 😂 why complain? he was to green and way to jacked did he think he was gonna be a ricky steamboat? very weird thinking about batista would be like if he lived out his technical wrestling dreams maybe he would have been the next bret hart😂
Deacon Batista was a solid, simple sidekick gimmick with the potential for a big face turn down the road. The biggest problem was he was a sidekick to a guy who wasnt used to working singles matches.
And he's also one of the most disliked wrestlers today where anyone with a brain can look back and see how overrated he was. Clearly not what he meant.
@@shinobu1886batista proved himself in mma but i also see from cornette's perspective how Batista was meek, if you watch wrestlers training classes, you can see certain personalities. batista says in hindsight certain things he just wasn't in class. Its like going back and saying " oh yea I was an A + student" and Jim Cornette is literally pointing out " dude you were afraid of the paper"
Interesting to hear Cornette say that being big can be a weakness, I've been saying that for years. Not a Vince McMahon apologist but I always thought the accusations of bias towards big men were misguided. The big guys get shot up the ranks faster, but that also means they need to get over faster. If someone the size of Shawn Michaels gets pushed and it doesn't quite work out, they can always try again later. When you have an obvious physical advantage over most guys and your momentum stalls, its very hard to get that back. Albert and Test were great workers for their size but were exposed before they were ready for the main event and neither reached their full potential.
I haven't really watched TNA much but if Hammerstone's recent appearance on NXT is any indication, he's over as hell. I don't know if he's getting a meaningful push right now, but he'll probably be fine.
That's a great point. Big guys are pushed before they're ready simply due to the optics. Big Show beat Hogan for the world title in his first ever match.
@@anthonyanderson9303 it’s not just optics though. Size matters in a fight. Not that smaller guy can’t win, but typically it comes down to the bigger guy being incompetent. There’s the anecdote about Ole Anderson chewing out Tony Atlas for having a competitive match with a job guy. Tony wanted to show that he was a good worker but in taking that long to beat a smaller guy either the smaller guy was super tough, Tony was weak or wrestling was fake and they’d just exposed it.
Batista has striven to become a good actor (and, to my surprise, he is). I have to respect that. The guy cares more about the quality of what he does than The Rock ever has.
The Deacon Batista gimmick was dead on arrival, I could be delusional, but I think Leviathan had at least a very small chance of working out, while Deacon Batista had no chance whatsoever of working out. Without a gimmick change/joining HHH & Flair, Batista would have likely been released
The Leviathan gimmick wouldn't have gone anywhere. The Deacon Batista gimmick was dead in the water as well. He benefitted from becoming friends with HHH.
These two personalities just didn't seem to gel well together, and that's okay. Sometimes it's nobody's fault when two people can't get on the same page. Even John Wooden didn't get 100% out of every single player. Jim shouldn't take it personally.
I believe that's the case here. Jim & Dave were not on the same page when it came to who they were as workers and how they learned/taught, so Dave ended up missing out on some of what Jim was trying to teach him, and Jim just wasn't able to reach Dave in the way that he needed. Their time together in OVW was just far from being ideal as a result of clashing backgrounds. Fortunately, they both don't seem to have taken it to heart too much, they're both just a little confused & frustrated at the disconnect.
What's funny is that the guys from WWF he wrestled in OVW also ended up being his best rivalries: Big Show, Undertaker, Mark Henry, Kane, John Cena, Randy Orton...
I do like when guys from that 2002 class talk about working with Cornette and how much they got from him. Cena always goes out of his way to praise Cornette and Danny Davis for their guidance and expertise. I remember Cornette when he talked about being at the 2017 Hall Of Fame during Mania weekend. He mentioned running into Orton and Cena and it being a cool reunion for him. Especially that Cena went out of his way to find him and share an intimate moment with him.
This makes it apparent that Dave’s shortcomings as a wrestler are what makes him a good actor. Both sides are right and wrong, I think Dave and Jim actually sort of agree with each other here.
In fairness to Bautista, Jim has a very old school way of looking at things. If you a huge guy who looks menacing and your promo skills aren't great to begin with, he's probably going to focus on your strengths. Maybe that's a bit short sighted, but in the old days, if you were like Bautista, you'd get a manager who could talk and you'd just stand there and growl. These days, a bit more is expected.
It's ironic that you say "in the old days" given that Lesnar was in the same class as Bautista and Lesnar ended up being the big guy who growled while his manager did the talking
If we’re being very honest, that isn’t what happened. His gimmick change from Leviathan died immediately. He got saved by Evolution and then blossomed into something greater.
Batista has the benefit of hindsight, which is why he's softened up on being critical of specifically Jim Cornette's role in his "Leviathan" run. Batista was mid 30s when he went to OVW alongside Cena, Benjamin, Lesnar, Umaga and the rest in their 20s. He wanted to be like them but 1) didn't start as early (so wouldn't have as lengthy a wrestling career) and 2) was green as a pepper tree compared to amateur wrestlers Benjamin and Lesnar. The role he got as Leviathan was the best spot for him to utilize his monster look, he lack of mat skills, and to best get him over with the crowd. He was mega hot with the OVW crowd, that's bc of Jim Cornette booking him correctly and playing to Batista's strengths in his literal first year of wrestling. I think over the years, Batista has understood this, and the 'meek' personality he had in OVW was the reason why he didn't progress like Lesnar or Orton, not because of Jim Cornette or the Leviathan gimmick itself. The fact that he ended up getting over with Evolution's help, you can see the difference in Batista's motivation to be a main eventer when he was with Ric Flair, Orton and HHH than when he was just getting easy Goldberg squash wins as a green worker. Experience makes you Level Up, basically.
Batista's career lasted about as long as Cornette expected it to. Jim was preparing him to work a program with The Undertaker eventually on the main roster, and that's certainly when he peaked.
The funny part is apparently no one had the guts to tell Bautista that he can’t work a full match and he’s best at doing a couple of moves and getting out of there.
Batista was green at first. He really didn't hit his stride to me until his battles with HHH. He was squashing people on the main roster with that clothesline. But that's the bussiness.
I feel that Batista needed to be himself while not being himself if that makes any sense. He needed to be Dave Batista, without working a gimmick. He was introverted but when the cameras were on, and he wore his boots, he was a badass, cool, and charismatic. His time in Evolution showed he was a main event player. Batista bet on himself, and it really paid off. Great job to him.
I get why he was booked the way he was, but I think Batista does have a point that it's hard to learn how to work when you're given nothing but quick squash matches.
I can see Batista's point. Goldberg never improved. Why? Because he only had squashes matches. Having said that being that big can be a double edged sword. Because everyone will look at you as a simple attraction not wrestler.
here's the analogy i got from this, Batista in hinsight is saying I was/ had the potential of an A + student and Jim is pointing " dude you were afraid of the paper. jim cornette saw how sensitive Batista is , now that sensitivity works in Batista's favor as he is the best actor in pro wrestling, he is a tremendous dramatic actor because of that. Also Batista mentioning Cornette being a great teacher of the history. Its no secret Dave didnt want to be a pro wrestler, he wanted to be a WWE superstar which is why he hasn't stayed in the business and gone into acting
So great to hear this story in a little more detail from both sides. You got an old school approach from Jim combined with 20 years of experience and hindsight from Dave at a time the industry changed whole sale to be about talking etc. In an era of Giants it was a little tricky to go the monster route with so many jacked body builder types where personality really became 1-2-3 key to success. Deep down Dave probably knows he can lack assertiveness at times but that is true of many people in life with lots and lots to offer. Amazing to think of the stroke and the pull to get Kane, Taker, Show and Austin !! Even if a little in their down time to come down and pay forward to the business to create a bumper crop of super stars. Really this is their Class of '92 if anyone knows the football analogy.
Dave wanted to be an actor and get on the mic, play a character and tell a story in the ring. Jim made him a wrestler. So he goes out and squashes people and gets kids excited enough to force their parents to pay money to see him have 5+ minute matches.
Then why was he trying to look like an even bigger version of Goldberg? Jim is right. It wouldn’t have made any sense to have a guy who looks like a monster go out and wrestle like a normal dude.
How? Whether you like Goldberg or not it's an irrefutable fact he was a megastar and made tons of money. Twenty five years later he still has name value. Nothing wrong with a Goldberg push if you have the tools to pull off (which Batista did, unlike Cryback).
The problem with Dave is, is that he SAID in his book - "I NEVER learned ANYTHING during my time in OVW" and that kinda pissed Jim off a bit because that caused Jim to come out and say his side of the story.
@@GenGamesUniverse Batista has this habit of coming into a business, making a bunch of money off them, then he turns around and sh!ts all over the business that made him a star.
I get what Dave is saying but when you build up your muscles and the tattoos etc. you are a victim of your own look. Nobody with your size and look is promoted as a technical wrestler they are all for the most part strong silent types or loud and offensive power move guys.
I'm one of those people who never thought Bautista was a good wrestler or good on the mic. He's a fantastic actor however. I love all of his movies. But I turned off wrestling like about 75% of the audience did around 2006. Go check the numbers. That being said I don't understand how Dave can be mad with the Leviathan character when he played the same exact character in WWE. He had five moves of doom The only difference was they put them in a suit and gave him sunglasses. He was surrounded by other people that he was able to get a rub from. He was in a much bigger organization so he could benefit from that unlike OVW which did not have 50 people on a roster with a ton of legends that could give you the rub. I'm not sure that Dave really understands what it is that he is saying. I think he believes what he is saying is true but I don't think he understands that Deacon Bautista was even worse. And I think for some reason because he got picked for Evolution and his career got a jump start because if you hang around HHH Good things are bound to happen for you that he equates that with "learning." What did he learn? Watch his matches and tell me what he did differently? He basically hit the same five moves. The only thing he did was change his image. Triple H made him cool. It wasn't like he wasn't already cool anyway. It's sort of like Lord Humongous & Psycho Sid. They're not different people and both are cool. One of them however belongs in the indies & The other has a leather jacket and is over with the fans even as a heel. Lord Humongous was too! Leviathan was too! Whats the difference?! I'm not following his logic. I think that is probably what makes him a good actor but it's also what made him a bad wrestler. As an actor he is given direction all the time. Tone it down, be funnier, be drier with your delivery, get excited here, etc. They didn't do any of that in professional wrestling because they figured you knew how to work your gimmick. There's a fine line between the two and I think that Dave somehow thinks that both of them are acting. Which is slightly true but that's not actually how it works, and considering Jim Cornette is so old school I could see why their philosophies butt heads. Dave absolutely would get along in the business today because everything is scripted out for you and there is a ton of direction. It's much more Hollywood like. Towards the end of his career that's how it was. I think that's why he kind of got better as time went on but he was already basically aged out of the business by the time that happened.
Batista just wanted to be a different wrestler instead of the monster heel on TV. He didn't want to be a "creature feature" character. He wanted to be more himself. As an aside, I think it's good that he dropped the weight. Ligaments aren't meant to take that kind of punishment. I don't think he is dissing Cornette.
Look at Jim’s kids defend him for clearly not seeing anything other than a big monster being jobbed out to Taker,Kane,Big Show,etc and nothing else!! Lol Hearing Jim’s opinions don’t line up with what he said about Batista years ago lol but….. again Jim’s kids all his marks will kiss his ass!!
Yea , hes not trying to be Arnold or The Rock. Guys like Denzel , De Niro and Pacino are not built like greek God's. I think hes trying to expand his range as an actor. Even Cena has trimmed down
I don't think he's 6'5 anymore. He lost some height since his wrestling days. He used to be the same height as Randy Orton. Now he's shorter than Randy. Probably 6'2½ to 6'3 these days .
I feel like Jim and Brian have to be following my Internet history and eBay/Amazon purchase history, lol. I JUST bought MOC figures of Space Ghost and The Creature from the Black Lagoon. Also a big fan of obscure comedian Professor Irwin Corey. And all these characters have not only been mentioned by Jim, but have also popped up in Travis’s drawings! These guys have great taste!
As i always say, if wrestling was booked the way Jim wants is/ based on what worked back in the old days Everyone would complain/ wrestling would be boring
This does seem like something I'd love to hear them have an actual conversation about, because I can understand both sides, and they seem amicable to the fact they see the situation differently.
Batista is right, and so is Corny. Corny gave him an easy safe gimmick to not expose himself in, but was too safe. Batista didnt get better till he trained with Afa, and mid 00 - late 00s when he was with Finlay in matches, and Taker. Then he got more competent in the ring, the gimmick wouldve been terrible on the main roster in the 00s. But I see why Jim did it, but if Batista maybe had his lightbulb go off like he did later on, then maybe Jim wouldve let him have more in his matches. The thing is Batista ended up being an "entrance, and body guy" like Warrior, and Goldberg. But he was the best possible version of all the entrance-body guys once he figuree it out, he could actially go, and he became a Goldberg that could sell/bump Very underrated in his matches
Fact is that Batista was still well trained by the time he joined WWE. In my opinion, he benefitted most because his WWE and OVW characters are 2 different individuals. Deacon Batista was a bust, but it forced him to invent a better character.
Seems to me people where waiting on batista to be assertive and confident so they can have the excuse of he was to cocky when they finally put that knife in his back
People in the comments sound a little off-base in defending Batista. He didn’t “want longer matches to improve in ring / become more legitimate” or whatever. He was in developmental. He didn’t know anything about the industry. Now that he does, he has or is claiming a perspective that he was incapable of having. Also, he wasn’t capable of having those long matches (and them actually being good) and it would’ve been a waste to book him in them. So Jim booked him correctly.
Was there another bug guy in Evolution that Batista replaced? I swore I saw a vignette once with that guy Flair, Orton and HHH getting into a helicopter once.
Mark Jindrak was originally going to be in Evolution, but they changed it at the last second. I think they did actually shoot one vignette with him in it, and you may have seen that.
Jim was/is clearly an old school guy. If you want to make it, you have to show up and bring something to the table. Batista wasn't that kind of guy. I guess he wanted directions, words of encouragement, etc. If he didn't like the character, then speak up. Say smth. I side with Jim because it's true. Batista was effin huge at the time. And huge guys almost get the same treatment traditionally, at least at first. Look at Kane, look at Brock...they all had squash matches or whatever you wanna call them in the beginning. Batista has to accept that he just wasn't prepared enough at the time, but eventually got much better. You can see the same with NxT guys. Someone who is a star there, when they come to WWE, they just don't make it. So, of course it was gonna be different. But I get Dave's perspective. He's not being disrespectful at all. He's just showing his point of view, even if that's something he should have done 25 years ago.
surprisingly sober discussion from both Dave and Jim, about how it almost didn't happen for Dave. Different perspectives obviously but, I appreciate both men talking about each other like men!
10:50 No disrespect to Dave but what the hell did he want from them? It’s not like when he went up things got better for him at WWE. He was put in a shirt and walked around with a box around his neck, also never spoke either. He was almost out the door until Hunter took an interest in him, he was also injured half the time, In fact he probably had the least mic time of anyone in evolution. It wasn’t until he was almost finished up he started having those amazing promos.
To be fair to Batista on Jim's comments of 'what do you do (in the ring)?' I can understand Batista's trepidation. With other workers in the WWE if you tell them what you do in the ring, then it may get turned around that Batista 'wouldn't listen' and 'did let the veteran call the match' and 'Batista just wanted to get his shit in.' Often times, particularly int he WWE, you just can't win.
Oh man, prior to this I had just stumbled upon the clips where Batista makes mention of his time in OVW and Jim. When I saw the title of this vid I thought, "oooh this should be interesting." >:-)
I don’t think Dave made a mistake because the proof is in the pudding. However, he would have made a great monster and he’s got the acting range to be a scary dude. I think it boils down to the fact that he just wasn’t into it.
Thanks for sharing this clip from my interview. Really interesting to hear this story from Jim’s point of view. Keep up the great work, Jim and Brian!
Now you have to get Jim to do an interview
Get Jim to do an Interview!
Chris vavlvlvlvlvlvlvl 😂
Interview Jim cornette🔥
CVV uses his left and right turn indicators 👍
It just sounds like they read each other wrong. Jim was waiting for Batista to show initiative and come out his shell. Batista was waiting for a certain type of education, slightlt different to what he got. They were both waiting for a cue that they didn't really give each other.
Very good explanation 🫱🏻🫲🏾‼️
Exactly, and it happens more often than people think. Someone who is just reserved and keeps to themselves might appear disinterested from outside, while they are actually willing to learn but think they will eventually be guided like everyone else.
Maybe Batista didn't feel comfortable telling a WWE main roster superstar Kane all the spots he wanted to do. Which on one hand is understandable. On the other hand it's like well do you want to get over or not? Then it's like "man get a load of Leviathan he wanted get ALL of his shit in on me what a prick." We all weren't there so who really knows but it's apparent that no one gelled together back then.
On the complete interview Batista said Fit Finley woke him up with the "what's your problem!? (are you gonna get it or don't!?)" so yeah in a sense Jim was right when he says Dave looked maybe not that motivated by his low key attitude...
I think your explanation is the problem with 99% of most relationships or relationships that came close to happening but never did. Both parties are waiting for a cue to initiate that neither gives but both desire. Then when it doesn't happen, both are mad at each other for committing the same "failure to act" without being consciously aware of it. Good explanation...
This is one of those cases where I can see both sides. Jim wanted to protect Batista because he was already starting older than most, and was injury prone. So he gave him a gimmick to minimize his mileage, but also allowed him to wrestle long matches when appropriate. But then Batista wanted to be more than that, and wanted more out of the wrestling business, and felt that key benefited from working with other people more. It was just two opposing philosophy's clashing.
Was actually about to comment that same thing haha. Is interesting thing to think about cause it is just two opposing philosophy's and both are very valid
Very well said . Someone pin the comment
Dave was crap who thought he was Lou Thesz and Jim knew he was nothing. Jim got proved right since he needed to become Triple HGH's boy to become anything
I think Leviathan was probably a good gimmick for a small promotion like OVW but it wouldn't have legs in WWE's main roster.
He says something kinda similar in interviews in regards to his acting career. That he doesn't want to just be typecast as a big, musclebound, gorilla. Dave sees himself as more than that but he also thinks of himself as a big, musclehead too. It's all so contradictory 😂
I see both sides. Dave wanted to grow as a character and performer and wanted to be more versatile. Jim wanted to keep his value as a star by not overexposing him.
Same here. I agree 💯🔥
I agree, it’s just a difference of opinion.
@@anarchy030 exactly!
@@4cuttimePrecisely
The problem is that this barista guy had *ZERO* talent. He was a body guy, nothing more. Couldn’t talk, couldn’t work, couldn’t act, couldn’t do anything besides pose. He was an old, wrinkly, failed bodybuilder who excelled at one thing: brownnosing, and he went to work on Triple Nobody’s ta!nt, which is the lone reason he got pushed (ironically, also the only reason Triple Nose got pushed)
It always amazes me how Jim is able to have coherent and detailed thoughts about random topics from 20+ years ago, such as Batista’s career in OVW.
If I recall correctly, he partially attributes it to OCD. That's why he documented everything to such an extent.
Yeah fr i mean he's really passionate about the wrestling business when you love something so much you can pick out the most specific moments in time he reminds me of my grandpa
His brain ain't fried from alcohol, tobacco or other drugs
I mean Batista career in ovw isn't a random topic. A random topic would have been what he did for Christmas 20 years ago or whatever
@@smarkslowplay3512yeah I don’t think he drinks alcohol at all and never smoked.
Jim should go on Chris’s show
True. If russo was a guest back then, then jim should be a guest too if he wants.
It will be interesting
Yes. He's overly nice but he asks good questions at the same time. That's not easy, especially in wrestling where the money is in causing controversy.
Chris is way too PG and Jim is far too honest
Chris'
"I said to him. If I had your Body and you had my Brain. We could both retire in five years" - Jim Cornette
That line is truer than half the truths of the world.
Hella accurate line, can't stress that enough.
The problem is that this barista guy had *ZERO* talent. He was a body guy, nothing more. Couldn’t talk, couldn’t work, couldn’t act, couldn’t do anything besides pose. He was an old, wrinkly, failed bodybuilder who excelled at one thing: brownnosing, and he went to work on Triple Nobody’s ta!nt, which is the lone reason he got pushed (ironically, also the only reason Triple Nose got pushed)
I feel the best example today of what Jim was trying to prevent for Batista from ever becoming is Brian Cage who should be able to beat 2-3 at a time and looks incredible but instead he chooses to go 20 minutes with guys half his size. Their resumes should prove Jim was right in his way of teaching
I am glad Cornette knows that Batista has no ill will towards him. It's just two different perspectives.
Batista is a straight up class act, more should have his ethic.
That's because Batista is a reasonable guy, he's not bitter like CM or bret hart or desperate like Kevin " where's my money" Nash
I’m glad Jim didn’t dig into Dave here. This feels like a mix of miscommunication and Dave not wanting to step on Jim’s toes and be seen as a problem.
I hope they get to talk face to face one day. They both ultimately did everything they wanted to do in life.
he didn't because prior to that interview, Jim is boastfully taking credit for brock, cena, orton, and batista.
I doubt Dave gives a f*** about what jim or his loser followers thinks. He wouldn't waste his time.
@@lsj6721 he should he created them partially
I agree. Batista always comes across as a guy who did get the business and respect it immensely. None of this is due to either side being idiots or douches.
@@redactedandredactedaccesor7290 created them partially?
Brock was a beast either way, Vince fought for him when he left the company;
Orton was always an HHH and Flair guy;
Cena was almost fired if not for Stephanie discovering him;
Now, bastista says this.
He can credit himself with the likes of Shelton, and where is he now? Do not delude yourself.
Let's see, when Batista went to WWE he was D-Von's silent muscle, then he shifted to being HHH's muscle in evolution. He wasn't having matches that were much longer than what Jim would have been doing as Leviathan in OVW for a while.
Batista in Evolution as THA ANIMAL was still a far cry from him eventually feuding with Rey Mysterio in what seemed like at least 3 ppv matches in a row them putting on Giant-vs-Luchador-clinics because Rey Mysterio was 'supposed to be mah frendddd'-- Batista ended up becoming pretty good in the ring (much better than John Cena IMHO) but he had to learn to crawl (and squash jobbers in 1 minute) before he could sprint (work with Rey to make springboard bulldogs look good)
That's exactly Batistas point
@@teecakes The Animal was more or less a Leviathan 2.0. That was it. Notice that whenever he wrestled, he was always in less than five minute matches or with someone who could help him in the ring i.e. Kane or The Undertaker?
It wasn't until 2006 when he finally was able to go full thirty minute matches.
@@martinracn06No, it wasn't. It contradicts Batistas point.
@@teecakesnowhere as good as cena
That would be a great viewing experience :
CVV with special guest - Mr Jim Cornette.
That'd be great. I might actually CVV, then. 😅
CVV is alright, but that smile he makes constantly is a bit overboard for me while the others are talking
@@dustinsmith8658 I can get that, the stare that could eat your soul. Just edit in an aggressive camera shake and a red filter, and suddenly you’ve got something demonic. 😂
@@dustinsmith8658that's just his natural personality.. I ran into him at a brewery when he livee in Cincinnati a few years ago. He smiled and was nothing but respectful the whole time.
It would be fascinating to hear Batista and Corny sit down and talk about this on camera. They would both be cordial, I'm not looking for a fight, but I want to hear them talk about this kind of thing to eachother
I understand. I want also the same but with Cena and maybe Randy Orton.
@@RandalfElVikingo With Cena would be fire. But let's be honest, the very first guy that needs to sit down with Jim on an interview is CM Punk. That interview would make more numbers than WrestleMania
@@RandalfElVikingo Why with Cena? Jim and Cena got along. It's Orton who needs to sit with Jim since he was acting like he didn't need to wrestle and wasn't motivated
@@j86485 I enjoy Cornette when he talks about things he likes too. Cornette saw Cena during a HoF and they shared some words but he seems proud of him.
Something like Paul Bearer with Cornette interview.
Except Jim tries to make Batista sound like a huge pussy every chance he gets calling him meek, needing his hand held, saying he was cold all the time, etc.
In one sense, Jim was spot on with Batista's career trajectory, because his best feud ended up being with The Undertaker.
Yep, Jim said that he was putting Dave as "the next challenger to The Undertaker" at Wrestlemania
@@GenGamesUniverseAnd that match at Mania 23 was probably one of the best matches of the night.
He had classics with Taker too that are quite overlooked. Those matches were badass.
@@kingkinkladze7352 Any and every match Dave had with Taker were classics. I think the Hell in a Cell match was good as well.
Jim never met CVV before? Can't wait for their interview in the future.
his match with Undertaker at Wrestlemania remains one of my favourite big men matches ever
It’s sooooo good!!!
The feud as a whole was awesome to watch too bad they ended it with edgeboi getting mixed in
@@cStatE95made it even better
Peak big guy vs big buy.
Their hell in a cell match is brutal and awesome too. Shame the finish was meh.
It took Triple H and Evolution to make Batista a star. Dave wasn't getting anywhere near the top until he hit the Raw roster. I think Jim did him a favour by trying to protect him while he was very green.
Batista was already getting pushed before Evolution. He got a PPV match against Kane at the end of 2002. And he was in the final four of the 2003 Royal Rumble, with Brock, Kane and Taker.
I didn't know Batista was almost 400 pounds when he came to OVW. That's wild.
He also had long dark hair at Afa's camp/school
The fact that he weighed 375 and not even being fat is insane.
@@MinusTheRogue The sauce can do that!
Don't buy it. At all
@@chrischar9428 k
It's not much of a feud because both Jim and Dave respect each other as a person and what they've accomplished. But this is the only Jim "feud" that I know where I completely understand both sides.
Same. I can see both sides and can respect their point of views.
these days it isn't much but there was heat before because Dave knocked Jim and Danny in his book, Dave took his words back so it's cooled off now.
It seems like a damned if you do/damned if you don’t situation for Batista. If he would’ve been more aggressive he would be labeled an asshole and difficult to work worth. There’s countless wrestling stories where a new guy tries to take initiative and is looked down on by the veterans and office and put in their place. Seems like Batista did the ol’ keep your mouth shut and your ears open that Jim always talks about but that still wasn’t good enough
As Jim has himself said in some other clips, "....both of those things could be true at the same time."
Jim as a business owner was pragmatic and smart with having Batista only do what he could do safely, without hurting the legitimacy of the company and equally importantly, his own prospects.
Batista on the other hand could still justifiably feel that had "he" been given more of a hands on learning opportunitiy with more guidance and area to try diff things in his OVW days....then his rise to the top might just have been quicker...and longer.
And that's why Jim simply presented his point of view instead of bashing Batista.
@@kaczok1985 Exactly. this is the correct take.
That Batista argument went through the window when Cornette mentioned he wrestled Big Show and Kane as a rookie.
I don't think batista complained that he wasn't a star, he complained that he only wrestled squash matches and never got to cut promos so he didn't learn or get better. I don't see how which people he wrestled changes that@@RandalfElVikingo
This is definitely a case of both sides being true. Jim, as the booker, saw Batista’s limited in ring work at the time and age and booked him appropriately. Batista wanted to learn more to improve his in ring work and was waiting to be taught to be able to do more.
At the end of day, Batista benefitted from both educations, which is the point of great teaching and learning.
Ultimately, Dave made a career out of clothesline, spear, spinebuster, thumbs up and down and a powerbomb, so the squash side fitted to his own personality was the evolution, pardon the pun.
I think if Dave looked bad, I think Jim teaching him that concept of match snd nailing a few basics helped him far more in nailing Batista than he perhaps realises.
And yes, HHH spotted the opportunity and helped him get mainstream over, because HHH was more in tune with what gets over in WWE because it's his playground.
Jim had the underlying wrestling concept and psychology, HHH had the cherry on top and the sprinkles. Much like the Bloodline, Heyman has the psychology, HHH adds the execution.
All of this happened because Batista said a bunch of unfavorable things about OVW in his book. So, Jim fired back in kind. I’m from the Louisville area and was a weekly watcher of OVW. Batista was managed by Jim’s wife, and everyone could tell that Jim LOVED Lavithian. If Batista never said those things in his book, Jim would have been praising him all these years like he has with every other OVW alumni… with the exception of Santino lol.
Jim was actually nice and reasonable to Batista in this clip
Jim didn’t give Batista what he wanted
Give him what he wants! What do you want! Give it to me!
It kills Jim
That’s a simple way of putting it but yes. Dave wanted more of foundation not to be taught how to do a monster gimmick. All monsters don’t have to be the same. It would be cool to get a Bane like monster. A monster that’s very intelligent and articulate but when it’s time to go he destroys you.
@@RonJP-pm7jp Whoosh
@RonJP-pm7jp yes but ultimately it comes down to the fact Cornette DIDNT GIVE HIM WHAT HE WANTS!!!
John Cena left the Prototype gimmick in developmental at around the same time; was there really an expectation at the time for Batista to continue the Leviathan gimmick once he got called up to WWE?
In the end, things worked out for him - he got to main event WrestleMania before Cena or Orton did, after all.
No gimmick really stays from company to company, And Cena is a good point to compaire to Batista. Batista said he wanted to go long matches and talk a lot on the mic. Cena did that when he was called up to Raw. And from Cenas own story, he was about to be cut later on. They told him he would be cut after Wrestlemania. But then on a over seas trip Stephanie M heard him freestyle rapping to others on the plane. Then they give Cena the thug life gimmick.
Inside every hulking bodybuilder is a tiny ballerina, desperate to escape.
Her dream came true! 🩰
Type this into AI software and you'll get the poster for Mr. Nanny
😭
I wanna see Chris Van Vleet interview Jim Cornette.
Soon bro. Never Say Never!
I would love to see that but Chris needs to push back on Cornette if he does interview him.
I want to see it because I can't imagine it. Chris is the most laid back, respectful guy in the world and Jim is.....Jim. 😂
@@Kratosx23 I think precisely because he's so respectful and professional Chris Van Vleet would get a pretty good interview from Jim Cornette. I think more people would understand Jim's point of view. Chris wouldn't be out to get him or try to create controversy for views or anything like that.
@@d.52555push back? Why? Jim hasn’t been rude about Chris
I feel like this is a tale of two disconnects: the first one being between what Corny saw in him and Batista had to offer. The second was in what Corny saw in him and what Stamford needed of him.
Finlay, actually being on the ground as a Producer, understood what WWE needed of Batista and was able to help develop him in that kind of way. And, with that understanding, it finally clicked.
I can see both sides. Batista thought he was capable of more than what he was doing, while Jim wanted him to play to his strengths.
Batista comes off as an sensitive introvert on interviews and someone who is very extroverted like Cornette probably didn't gel well.
Sensitive is very much the wrong term. He's just self-conseus of himself and those around him.
watch the show where he goes out with bear grylls for some rock climbing 😂 Batista came off like a chronically online 12 yo who's never been outside lol
Was it any worse than Deacon Batista?!!
That had potential ended way too soon
No, it wasn't worse than Deacon Batista. Leviathan was a cross between Goldberg and a Demon like character that was led by Sinn because he was cold on the mic back then.
@@t.jefferson6365yeah the gimmick worked why would you have this big jacked demon try and wrestle a 30 minute classic? did batista think him being that green that he would have benefited from showing off his lack of experience in the ring? its so weird you got a good easy gimmick 😂 why complain? he was to green and way to jacked did he think he was gonna be a ricky steamboat? very weird thinking about batista would be like if he lived out his technical wrestling dreams maybe he would have been the next bret hart😂
Deacon Batista was a solid, simple sidekick gimmick with the potential for a big face turn down the road. The biggest problem was he was a sidekick to a guy who wasnt used to working singles matches.
@@H.a.m.B.u.r.g.e.r I think a lot of Batista's issues come with a lot of hindsight
I've been waiting for this response since I saw the Batista interview.
"They booked me like Goldberg."
You mean one of the most popular guys of the era?
And he's also one of the most disliked wrestlers today where anyone with a brain can look back and see how overrated he was.
Clearly not what he meant.
@@shinobu1886batista proved himself in mma but i also see from cornette's perspective how Batista was meek, if you watch wrestlers training classes, you can see certain personalities. batista says in hindsight certain things he just wasn't in class. Its like going back and saying " oh yea I was an A + student" and Jim Cornette is literally pointing out " dude you were afraid of the paper"
Both of these perspectives can be correct. They both have points to what they believe.
Interesting to hear Cornette say that being big can be a weakness, I've been saying that for years. Not a Vince McMahon apologist but I always thought the accusations of bias towards big men were misguided.
The big guys get shot up the ranks faster, but that also means they need to get over faster. If someone the size of Shawn Michaels gets pushed and it doesn't quite work out, they can always try again later.
When you have an obvious physical advantage over most guys and your momentum stalls, its very hard to get that back. Albert and Test were great workers for their size but were exposed before they were ready for the main event and neither reached their full potential.
Matt Morgan. Hammerstone, Brian Cage are prime examples
I haven't really watched TNA much but if Hammerstone's recent appearance on NXT is any indication, he's over as hell. I don't know if he's getting a meaningful push right now, but he'll probably be fine.
That's a great point. Big guys are pushed before they're ready simply due to the optics. Big Show beat Hogan for the world title in his first ever match.
@@anthonyanderson9303 it’s not just optics though. Size matters in a fight. Not that smaller guy can’t win, but typically it comes down to the bigger guy being incompetent.
There’s the anecdote about Ole Anderson chewing out Tony Atlas for having a competitive match with a job guy. Tony wanted to show that he was a good worker but in taking that long to beat a smaller guy either the smaller guy was super tough, Tony was weak or wrestling was fake and they’d just exposed it.
@OTJ8995 no I agree fully, it only makes logical sense. There are exceptions of course, but there are weight divisions in combat sports for a reason.
Didn't think Dave ment any disrespect
We are friends, but not “show up at Jim Cornette’s house unannounced” friends. 😂
Batista has striven to become a good actor (and, to my surprise, he is). I have to respect that. The guy cares more about the quality of what he does than The Rock ever has.
Not when it comes to the wrestling business.
Yet The Rock is richer, more famous and more successful.
“This is Batista on Jim Cornette.”
“Uh oh!” 😂😂😂😂😂😂
batista was right, he wouldve went nowhere in the main roster with that leviathan gimmick
He would have been another Nathan Jones or Luther Reigns
The Deacon Batista gimmick was dead on arrival, I could be delusional, but I think Leviathan had at least a very small chance of working out, while Deacon Batista had no chance whatsoever of working out. Without a gimmick change/joining HHH & Flair, Batista would have likely been released
Undertaker, Kane...
The Leviathan gimmick wouldn't have gone anywhere. The Deacon Batista gimmick was dead in the water as well. He benefitted from becoming friends with HHH.
Bull. He would have still made it the same way he made it this time. On verge of getting fired then become Triple HGH's boy and boom champion
Idk why Dave thought he'd be trained the same way as Cena & Orton, when he was older than HHH & looked like that.
These two personalities just didn't seem to gel well together, and that's okay. Sometimes it's nobody's fault when two people can't get on the same page. Even John Wooden didn't get 100% out of every single player. Jim shouldn't take it personally.
I believe that's the case here. Jim & Dave were not on the same page when it came to who they were as workers and how they learned/taught, so Dave ended up missing out on some of what Jim was trying to teach him, and Jim just wasn't able to reach Dave in the way that he needed. Their time together in OVW was just far from being ideal as a result of clashing backgrounds.
Fortunately, they both don't seem to have taken it to heart too much, they're both just a little confused & frustrated at the disconnect.
What's funny is that the guys from WWF he wrestled in OVW also ended up being his best rivalries: Big Show, Undertaker, Mark Henry, Kane, John Cena, Randy Orton...
I do like when guys from that 2002 class talk about working with Cornette and how much they got from him. Cena always goes out of his way to praise Cornette and Danny Davis for their guidance and expertise.
I remember Cornette when he talked about being at the 2017 Hall Of Fame during Mania weekend. He mentioned running into Orton and Cena and it being a cool reunion for him. Especially that Cena went out of his way to find him and share an intimate moment with him.
cena was the guy everyone liked because he wanted to be the best. he was the only one who got to drive the ovw bus with the ring inside.
This makes it apparent that Dave’s shortcomings as a wrestler are what makes him a good actor. Both sides are right and wrong, I think Dave and Jim actually sort of agree with each other here.
WWE treated him the exact same way as Cornette did until he became HHH's gym buddy.
That's a lie. In OVW, he was undefeated for a year and world champion.
@@LimaKiloRomeo fair enough, I was referring to the booking but he did get treated about well as he could be in OVW.
@@jimibaboza You should probably have at least some knowledge about how Cornette booked him, then 😂
@@Rjensen2In too much of a rush to bury HHH for checking facts.
@@6steveo9 Yep, exactly that.
I think Batista kinda wants to present himself as the smart hulk type
Jim Cornette is an American treasure
In fairness to Bautista, Jim has a very old school way of looking at things. If you a huge guy who looks menacing and your promo skills aren't great to begin with, he's probably going to focus on your strengths. Maybe that's a bit short sighted, but in the old days, if you were like Bautista, you'd get a manager who could talk and you'd just stand there and growl. These days, a bit more is expected.
It's ironic that you say "in the old days" given that Lesnar was in the same class as Bautista and Lesnar ended up being the big guy who growled while his manager did the talking
Why is this even a debate? Clearly Batista made the right decision for the longevity of his career. He bet on himself and it payed off.
If we’re being very honest, that isn’t what happened. His gimmick change from Leviathan died immediately. He got saved by Evolution and then blossomed into something greater.
Batista has the benefit of hindsight, which is why he's softened up on being critical of specifically Jim Cornette's role in his "Leviathan" run. Batista was mid 30s when he went to OVW alongside Cena, Benjamin, Lesnar, Umaga and the rest in their 20s. He wanted to be like them but 1) didn't start as early (so wouldn't have as lengthy a wrestling career) and 2) was green as a pepper tree compared to amateur wrestlers Benjamin and Lesnar. The role he got as Leviathan was the best spot for him to utilize his monster look, he lack of mat skills, and to best get him over with the crowd. He was mega hot with the OVW crowd, that's bc of Jim Cornette booking him correctly and playing to Batista's strengths in his literal first year of wrestling.
I think over the years, Batista has understood this, and the 'meek' personality he had in OVW was the reason why he didn't progress like Lesnar or Orton, not because of Jim Cornette or the Leviathan gimmick itself. The fact that he ended up getting over with Evolution's help, you can see the difference in Batista's motivation to be a main eventer when he was with Ric Flair, Orton and HHH than when he was just getting easy Goldberg squash wins as a green worker. Experience makes you Level Up, basically.
Yup
He bet on himself by befriending HHH
Batista's career lasted about as long as Cornette expected it to. Jim was preparing him to work a program with The Undertaker eventually on the main roster, and that's certainly when he peaked.
"I always get this either right or wrong"
Yes, those are usually the two outcomes.
The funny part is apparently no one had the guts to tell Bautista that he can’t work a full match and he’s best at doing a couple of moves and getting out of there.
I love Batista described his OVW matches as Goldberg matches 😂
They're both right. And they both have a point.
Like hell they are. Did you even watch Batista in OVW?
Batista was green at first. He really didn't hit his stride to me until his battles with HHH. He was squashing people on the main roster with that clothesline. But that's the bussiness.
I feel that Batista needed to be himself while not being himself if that makes any sense. He needed to be Dave Batista, without working a gimmick. He was introverted but when the cameras were on, and he wore his boots, he was a badass, cool, and charismatic. His time in Evolution showed he was a main event player. Batista bet on himself, and it really paid off. Great job to him.
I get why he was booked the way he was, but I think Batista does have a point that it's hard to learn how to work when you're given nothing but quick squash matches.
I can see Batista's point. Goldberg never improved. Why? Because he only had squashes matches. Having said that being that big can be a double edged sword. Because everyone will look at you as a simple attraction not wrestler.
here's the analogy i got from this, Batista in hinsight is saying I was/ had the potential of an A + student and Jim is pointing " dude you were afraid of the paper.
jim cornette saw how sensitive Batista is , now that sensitivity works in Batista's favor as he is the best actor in pro wrestling, he is a tremendous dramatic actor because of that.
Also Batista mentioning Cornette being a great teacher of the history.
Its no secret Dave didnt want to be a pro wrestler, he wanted to be a WWE superstar which is why he hasn't stayed in the business and gone into acting
Can we get a CVV and JC one on one!? That would be awesome!
Never got into Halloween?? But like Friday the 13th? Blasphemy
Exactly 💯! Probably not enough gnarly kills for Brian. Although the sequels definitely have their share.
So great to hear this story in a little more detail from both sides. You got an old school approach from Jim combined with 20 years of experience and hindsight from Dave at a time the industry changed whole sale to be about talking etc. In an era of Giants it was a little tricky to go the monster route with so many jacked body builder types where personality really became 1-2-3 key to success. Deep down Dave probably knows he can lack assertiveness at times but that is true of many people in life with lots and lots to offer. Amazing to think of the stroke and the pull to get Kane, Taker, Show and Austin !! Even if a little in their down time to come down and pay forward to the business to create a bumper crop of super stars. Really this is their Class of '92 if anyone knows the football analogy.
Dave wanted to be an actor and get on the mic, play a character and tell a story in the ring.
Jim made him a wrestler. So he goes out and squashes people and gets kids excited enough to force their parents to pay money to see him have 5+ minute matches.
That’s legit criticism from Batista from the view point of him not wanting to be Goldberg.
Then why was he trying to look like an even bigger version of Goldberg? Jim is right. It wouldn’t have made any sense to have a guy who looks like a monster go out and wrestle like a normal dude.
How? Whether you like Goldberg or not it's an irrefutable fact he was a megastar and made tons of money. Twenty five years later he still has name value. Nothing wrong with a Goldberg push if you have the tools to pull off (which Batista did, unlike Cryback).
The problem with Dave is, is that he SAID in his book - "I NEVER learned ANYTHING during my time in OVW" and that kinda pissed Jim off a bit because that caused Jim to come out and say his side of the story.
Tough. You don't get to tell the booker what you will or won't do.
@@GenGamesUniverse Batista has this habit of coming into a business, making a bunch of money off them, then he turns around and sh!ts all over the business that made him a star.
I get what Dave is saying but when you build up your muscles and the tattoos etc. you are a victim of your own look. Nobody with your size and look is promoted as a technical wrestler they are all for the most part strong silent types or loud and offensive power move guys.
Gotta side with Jim over what draws money and what protects the body too. But gotta admire Dave's drive too.
I wonder if Jim watched Fright Night "every sinister Saturday at seven" on Channel 41 from Louisville back in the day like I did....
Anyone who takes the Universal Studios backlot tour will know who Carl Laemmle is.
I'm one of those people who never thought Bautista was a good wrestler or good on the mic. He's a fantastic actor however. I love all of his movies. But I turned off wrestling like about 75% of the audience did around 2006. Go check the numbers.
That being said I don't understand how Dave can be mad with the Leviathan character when he played the same exact character in WWE. He had five moves of doom The only difference was they put them in a suit and gave him sunglasses. He was surrounded by other people that he was able to get a rub from. He was in a much bigger organization so he could benefit from that unlike OVW which did not have 50 people on a roster with a ton of legends that could give you the rub.
I'm not sure that Dave really understands what it is that he is saying. I think he believes what he is saying is true but I don't think he understands that Deacon Bautista was even worse. And I think for some reason because he got picked for Evolution and his career got a jump start because if you hang around HHH Good things are bound to happen for you that he equates that with "learning."
What did he learn? Watch his matches and tell me what he did differently? He basically hit the same five moves. The only thing he did was change his image. Triple H made him cool. It wasn't like he wasn't already cool anyway. It's sort of like Lord Humongous & Psycho Sid. They're not different people and both are cool. One of them however belongs in the indies & The other has a leather jacket and is over with the fans even as a heel. Lord Humongous was too! Leviathan was too!
Whats the difference?! I'm not following his logic. I think that is probably what makes him a good actor but it's also what made him a bad wrestler. As an actor he is given direction all the time. Tone it down, be funnier, be drier with your delivery, get excited here, etc.
They didn't do any of that in professional wrestling because they figured you knew how to work your gimmick. There's a fine line between the two and I think that Dave somehow thinks that both of them are acting. Which is slightly true but that's not actually how it works, and considering Jim Cornette is so old school I could see why their philosophies butt heads.
Dave absolutely would get along in the business today because everything is scripted out for you and there is a ton of direction. It's much more Hollywood like. Towards the end of his career that's how it was. I think that's why he kind of got better as time went on but he was already basically aged out of the business by the time that happened.
Batista just wanted to be a different wrestler instead of the monster heel on TV. He didn't want to be a "creature feature" character. He wanted to be more himself. As an aside, I think it's good that he dropped the weight. Ligaments aren't meant to take that kind of punishment. I don't think he is dissing Cornette.
I remember Jim calling Batista frail f-n demon
Look at Jim’s kids defend him for clearly not seeing anything other than a big monster being jobbed out to Taker,Kane,Big Show,etc and nothing else!! Lol Hearing Jim’s opinions don’t line up with what he said about Batista years ago lol but….. again Jim’s kids all his marks will kiss his ass!!
Batista is currently 240 lbs and 6'5". Lot of people think he is sick but no he just trimmed down.
Yea , hes not trying to be Arnold or The Rock. Guys like Denzel , De Niro and Pacino are not built like greek God's. I think hes trying to expand his range as an actor. Even Cena has trimmed down
I don't think he's 6'5 anymore. He lost some height since his wrestling days. He used to be the same height as Randy Orton. Now he's shorter than Randy. Probably 6'2½ to 6'3 these days .
he's not 240 no way he looks like Jeff goldblum physically now.
He’s off the gas
Batista has always been shorter than Randy. No way has he ever been 6'5.
I feel like Jim and Brian have to be following my Internet history and eBay/Amazon purchase history, lol. I JUST bought MOC figures of Space Ghost and The Creature from the Black Lagoon. Also a big fan of obscure comedian Professor Irwin Corey. And all these characters have not only been mentioned by Jim, but have also popped up in Travis’s drawings!
These guys have great taste!
Been waiting for this since the comments from Drax.
When I saw the clip, I couldn't wait to hear Jim's response.
WHEN'S CVV INTERVIEWING CORNEY?! I've been Praying for this interview for years
Jim is right, and Dave's wwe career proved it. He only worked being used the way Jim described. Like exactly
Batista didn't bring up he was way older than the other guys in OVW. I think that's why he wasn't progressing as quick as the other people.
As i always say, if wrestling was booked the way Jim wants is/ based on what worked back in the old days
Everyone would complain/ wrestling would be boring
This does seem like something I'd love to hear them have an actual conversation about, because I can understand both sides, and they seem amicable to the fact they see the situation differently.
Batista is right, and so is Corny. Corny gave him an easy safe gimmick to not expose himself in, but was too safe. Batista didnt get better till he trained with Afa, and mid 00 - late 00s when he was with Finlay in matches, and Taker. Then he got more competent in the ring, the gimmick wouldve been terrible on the main roster in the 00s. But I see why Jim did it, but if Batista maybe had his lightbulb go off like he did later on, then maybe Jim wouldve let him have more in his matches. The thing is Batista ended up being an "entrance, and body guy" like Warrior, and Goldberg. But he was the best possible version of all the entrance-body guys once he figuree it out, he could actially go, and he became a Goldberg that could sell/bump
Very underrated in his matches
Fact is that Batista was still well trained by the time he joined WWE. In my opinion, he benefitted most because his WWE and OVW characters are 2 different individuals. Deacon Batista was a bust, but it forced him to invent a better character.
Seems to me people where waiting on batista to be assertive and confident so they can have the excuse of he was to cocky when they finally put that knife in his back
People in the comments sound a little off-base in defending Batista. He didn’t “want longer matches to improve in ring / become more legitimate” or whatever. He was in developmental. He didn’t know anything about the industry. Now that he does, he has or is claiming a perspective that he was incapable of having.
Also, he wasn’t capable of having those long matches (and them actually being good) and it would’ve been a waste to book him in them. So Jim booked him correctly.
One thing almost no disagrees about is Jim’s knowledge of business & the psychology of putting a match together.
Dave’s clearly a nice guy and Jim, even with his hard exterior, is a softy inside, so I’m glad they’re on good terms still
I was there for a lot of those OVW shows. Good times.
Honestly I really like Batista and I understand his point of view here.
Was there another bug guy in Evolution that Batista replaced? I swore I saw a vignette once with that guy Flair, Orton and HHH getting into a helicopter once.
Mark Jindrack
Mark Jindrak was originally going to be in Evolution, but they changed it at the last second. I think they did actually shoot one vignette with him in it, and you may have seen that.
@@atomzero1 Thank you!
Mark Jindrak. He got replaced once Dave started sucking up to Triple HGH
@@vanhagar3000 Thank you! I just looked it up and he got dumped because he was immature and getting Orton in trouble.
Jim was/is clearly an old school guy. If you want to make it, you have to show up and bring something to the table. Batista wasn't that kind of guy. I guess he wanted directions, words of encouragement, etc. If he didn't like the character, then speak up. Say smth. I side with Jim because it's true. Batista was effin huge at the time. And huge guys almost get the same treatment traditionally, at least at first. Look at Kane, look at Brock...they all had squash matches or whatever you wanna call them in the beginning. Batista has to accept that he just wasn't prepared enough at the time, but eventually got much better. You can see the same with NxT guys. Someone who is a star there, when they come to WWE, they just don't make it. So, of course it was gonna be different. But I get Dave's perspective. He's not being disrespectful at all. He's just showing his point of view, even if that's something he should have done 25 years ago.
surprisingly sober discussion from both Dave and Jim, about how it almost didn't happen for Dave. Different perspectives obviously but, I appreciate both men talking about each other like men!
10:50
No disrespect to Dave but what the hell did he want from them? It’s not like when he went up things got better for him at WWE. He was put in a shirt and walked around with a box around his neck, also never spoke either. He was almost out the door until Hunter took an interest in him, he was also injured half the time, In fact he probably had the least mic time of anyone in evolution. It wasn’t until he was almost finished up he started having those amazing promos.
To be fair to Batista on Jim's comments of 'what do you do (in the ring)?' I can understand Batista's trepidation. With other workers in the WWE if you tell them what you do in the ring, then it may get turned around that Batista 'wouldn't listen' and 'did let the veteran call the match' and 'Batista just wanted to get his shit in.'
Often times, particularly int he WWE, you just can't win.
Do you know how long I've been waiting for this?
The green monster, presumably Leviathan, kinda looks like Bubba Ray Dudley
“But Brian..” I don’t think I’ve ever heard him use that voice inflection
He sounded kinda weary. Idk
@@kingkold He was feeling a bit idyllic perhaps 😏
@@WsK- maybe it was kind of a jab at uncle dave and alverez
But Briiiiiiiiannnnn
Omg please go on CVV Corny! Your knowledge of the business needs spread and CVV is a great outlet for modern that.
Jim's wrestling IQ is off the charts, we're both older now, but if he started his own promotion, I would sign up💪🏼
Oh man, prior to this I had just stumbled upon the clips where Batista makes mention of his time in OVW and Jim.
When I saw the title of this vid I thought, "oooh this should be interesting." >:-)
I don’t think Dave made a mistake because the proof is in the pudding. However, he would have made a great monster and he’s got the acting range to be a scary dude. I think it boils down to the fact that he just wasn’t into it.