I'm right there with you... It deeply saddens me, but I also see a lot of smart folks with good ideas planting a stake in the ground and telling the world to pike off with its bullcrap.
I adore The Good Place, and how it spent two seasons giving a Philosophy 101 course and now season 3 is all "Surprise! Morality is complicated! And has consequences!" I love it.
@@umarisbored6973 YT algorythm shows comments with many comments higher than ones with many likes. So it promotes controversial opinions not the "good" ones that everyone agrees with. In order to prevent it, one of the brothers suggested to put "+" in the comment section of the comment you like.
The Good Place: the only show on network television that contains both long, difficult, complicated discussions about morals and ethics...AND fart jokes!
While also still be a wholesome show where the characters care for each other! You'd think that a show about complex moral dilemma will be full of messed up, dysfunctional people.
SEASON 2 SPOILERS: "The real question, Eleanor, is what do we owe each other?" I still find that line to be one of the most moving I've ever heard on television. But yes, it's a difficult question to answer.
“Consider it: every person you have ever met, every person will suffer the loss of his friends and family. All are going to lose everything they love in this world. Why would one want to be anything but kind to them in the meantime?” -Sam Harris OR “There’s only one rule that I know of, babies-God damn it, you’ve got to be kind.” - Kurt Vonnegut
There was also a theme in the most recent episode about trying to be a better person today than you were yesterday. So not having to be perfect, not having to meet some arbitrary threshold, but just generally trying to get better.
Spoilers for season 4: There's a line that's definitely going to stick with me for a while as I've been conflicted whether i should continue to struggle with complicated truths or retreat to simple and somewhat blissful lies as Hank perfectly said. "What matters isn’t if people are good or bad; what matters is if they’re trying to be better today than they were yesterday.” And I really do. The Good Place is such phenomenal writing and glad I'm following it to the end.
I don't really understand what he means by this. Isn't the whole point of utilitarianism to look at the bigger picture and not focus on the individual? If he's talking about the pseudo-utilitarian, neoliberal, means-test-everything world view that currently dominates politics, I understand, but I don't know if that's what he's referring to
@@MakeMeThinkAgain You can say that about literally any historical figure lol. Kant, Plato, Socrates, Hume, John Stuart Mill, all believed terrible/racist things, but that doesn't mean we should discard their ideas.
This video reminds me of a video I saw a while ago where this guy talked about how we can't keep up with world news. News is so fast and so constant that keeping up with all the bad stuff (because the news is almost exclusively bad) takes a huge toll on our health. With Jason's analogy about his friend who doesn't have time to research the implications of his every action, it's worth noting that it's not just time. It can also be about mental energy/health and how much effort you feel you can put into certain tasks.
so this isn't as much about research as it is keeping up with the news in a way that doesn't eat your brain, I'm subscribed to a daily newsletter called "1440" that gives pretty much everything major going on the previous day in the most objective, bite-sized way possible. It's kinda like a newspaper but free! I know I probably sound like an ad read but it's improved the health of my news viewing time tremendously and I figured I'd give it a reccomend
"It's almost as if utilitarianism relies on a hyper-individualistic worldview that isn't reflective of reality." Had to pause, think for a sec, rewind, listen on .5x speed, and then pause and think again. Good shit today, Hank.
Now I'm thinking about that quote on how unreasonable ways of seeing the world create progress in unreasonable ways. People that choose worldviews that don't match reality, but challenge it to shape it to crazy ends. More shape our systems I suppose, than actual reality.
I love that my favorite channel is talking about my favorite TV show!! I think The Good Place comes at a critical time for culture, because we're all realizing that things in this world are complex and that we need to engage with the complexity in order to really be Good People, whatever that may mean. Cancel culture comes to mind especially - it's a nice idea but like you said, our accounting departments will always be flawed because WE will always be flawed. Thanks for this video Hank!!
I always love Hank's pop culture takes. In a TH-cam landscape sort of saturated with them it is amazing to me that he always manages to find a fresh and consice angle to shows that makes me see them differently and appreciate them more.
I feel like you do the best you can, for who you can, when you can, and that's kind of all you can do. Also I use oat milk for my coffee, cuz I'm allergic to almonds, coincidental win!
I keep seeing stuff about The Good Place popping up. *adds it to the ever growing content watch list* I do really appreciate the work you and John do to try and be as nuanced as possible. It’s really impacted me as a person, and I hope it never stops.
The fact that I have in the last few weeks discovered that Hank watches and likes The Good Place has maybe made me like him 10x more than I did before, something I didn't think was possible. Best show on TV hands down.
For the love of god, please make a more detailed video on hankschannel on this topic hank, no wonder pizzamas is literally one of my most favorite times of the year. i know these words are awfully overused but then I again I feel an obligation to say, I love you guys. I don't know how to say it better.
Mr Green, this video, this discussion, could not have come at a better time for me. I've been in a pretty "Bad Place" myself these past few months, and this insight really struck a chord with me. It's not the first time I've been moved by your words and I hope it's not the last, but it's the most topical one yet. Thank you for making this
Being Buddhist, my ‘judgement of people’ or myself is always filtered by intent. Did I intend to hurt someone and now that I am aware that a certain action hurts people, what can I do to minimize that ‘hurt’. I don’t believe in the heaven and hell concept and I gave up on The Good Place in mid episode 2 in season 2.....mmhhh, I think I will go back and look at it again. Thanks Hank, once again a gem of a video🙏🏽
Two points: One I like, one I think got missed. 1) ‘Pop’ utilitarianism: thank you. Absolutely right. Utilitarianism is far more nuanced than people generally give it credit for and so the calculations are often done badly if not entirely incorrectly. (I say this as a non-utilitarian ethicist - with like...degrees and stuff) 2) The mere fact that one acts wrongly says little about (a) one’s culpability (I.e. blameworthy-ness) for the action or one’s character as a good or bad person. By and large systems like utilitarianism and deontology (Kantian, Social Contract Theories, Rights etc. ) are focused on evaluating ACTION not CHARACTER. If what gets you to the Good Place is the latter, then one’s actions (as evaluated by these two systems) may be less (or even un)important. Those of good character may be forced to do ‘bad’ things in some circumstances while remaining ‘good’ people. Good people are permitted errors (excusable bad actions) or circumstances may actually allow (or demand) bad actions from good folks (rare but possible). Don’t stress...too much. :)
But how do you know if the person doing the bad thing has good character or not? And how do you recognize if the bad things you plan to do are outweighed/justified by your character?
Pendlera character is determined by a consistent pattern of behavior(more or less) indicative of particular virtues (beneficence, courage, etc). A person with these virtues cannot act ‘wrongly’ as long as she (or he) acts in accordance with the virtues. A virtuous person doesn’t commit bad actions by definition. It’s a skill set one develops by mimicking paradigmatic virtuous people. Excusability is generally grounded in either the circumstances or in some feature about the actor. For example, stealing is wrong (both utilitarianism and deontology agree on this, though for different reasons), but if you accidentally walk out of a store without paying for that apple you forgot you dropped into your bag intending to buy it, you’re probably excused to at least some extent. You didn’t know you were stealing (you forgot you had it) and you didn’t intend to take it without paying (you intended to buy it and forgot). You did something wrong, but you aren’t completely blameworthy for the wrong act. As such it doesn’t reflect your character (forgetfulness isn’t generally considered a moral vice). Long. Sorry. But I hope that helps :)
Oh my! What a coincidence. I was watching a video analysing how The Good Place is transforming the sitcom genre and reading analyses of the show online this morning, and boom, in the evening you post a video about it! Amazing. On a more serious note, I love how this show explores philosophical concepts in such a fun manner and still reaches nuanced conclusions. The message to ‘try to be better’ instead of thinking in binaries like ‘good’ or ‘bad’ that are too intertwined to discern in the modern world resonates with me. Another masterpiece by Michael Schur!
Hank... I feel a strange and wonderful joy in characterizing you, John, and several other deep thinking youtubers, as modern day philosophers that I can access from my pocket. As mentors in increasingly complex world, I feel like you have an ability to draw a picture on our cave wall that allows us to understand what is outside. Education and really TRYING to grasp what ails our world society helps me see how I can personally grow. Thank you for continuing to create content that shines a light. It means a lot. And it really resonates. I've watched most of season one and two... thanks for not spoiling 3 too much btw... and I could feel these things but your ability to put them into concise words really helps. Keep. Going.
"Humanity is about always making progress forever and so knowing the work is never going to be done, but it's going to be better if you take the average over a long period of time." - A quote from Hank Green on Dear Hank and John from a while ago that I printed out and stuck on my wall.
I'M AM SO HAPPY YOU MADE THIS VIDEO!!!! I recently binge watched the season in one night and it made me feel more serene about the complexity of buying tomatoes, and simply... Existing.
Interestingly enough, those who believe in determinism are significantly more likely to do fewer good deeds when given the opportunity. I don’t remember which studies specifically but they’re out there
If you find those studies let me know, because my personal experience tells me that determinist are MUCH more likely to donate time and money to the betterment of others. Although it kinda makes intuitive sense to think that since as a determinist you can never take credit for your good behavior
Omg yas! The Good Place! Aaaahh! Love that show so much! Apart from being great entertainment, I liked how it actually taught me philosophy - moral particularism is my favorite one! I also liked how they came up with an answer to the trolley problem
THANK YOU for immediately stating there will be spoilers!!!! I just finished season 2 and have managed to avoid season 3 spoilers for a year (and hopefully will avoid season 4 spoilers as those happen). Just really appreciate the warning; adding this to my To Watch list for later. I don't think I've ever hit the pause button so fast. XD
Thank you for talking about The Good Place! I've spent the last year telling everyone who will listen that this show is excellent and they should watch it. It's cerebral and acknowledges the complexity of ethics and philosophy but it's also pretty down to earth and genuinely funny. You end up learning and thinking without realizing it.
I love The Good Place so much and really resonate with Hank's conclusions. Also, the show has made me think about and feel so many things about people and the world, and I'm just glad that I'm not the only person who thinks possibly way too much about this show because we enjoy it so much.
I started watching this video 5 days ago when it was uploaded, learnt it contained spoilers from The Good Place and stopped watching. I'm now back after having binged up to Season 4 episode 3. Very good show, very good video. Thanks for being the final push to actually watch the show!
I love the good place and especially the ending of season 3 stuck in my head for such a long time. I really like to think about things and make good or "better" choices in my life (whatever this means).^^ This "never good enough"-mentality pointed out in the finale felt like a big mirror for the world we live in at the moment. Like the fact that you maybe try to be more environmentally friendly and there are a lot people always pointing out what "bad" things you are still doing. Seeing things as "good" and "bad" can be very harmful in itself, but feeling like every choice is judged harshly can lead to not even trying at all! I love the good place for dealing with today's complex questions of morality and I am excited to watch season 4 soon. :)
Honestly my favourite thing I've gotten from this season has to be how what defines you as a good person is if you are trying to be a better version of yourself today than you were yesterday.
So glad you're a fan of The Good Place. This is one of the best shows on television, and never in my lifetime has there been a greater need for a sitcom about moral philosophy.
YES. I forkin’ love The Good Place. I started watching it this year and caught up on Netflix. Sad it will be ending, but relieved it’s the writers’ choice and hoping that means we’ll get a great conclusion. Complex, but great. This also explains that poll you had on Twitter the other day lol.
I recently finished the series & loved it. Something I keep thinking about, in relation to being a good person, is that some people do not have the means to buy the most ethically source items. They aren't bad people at all, buying ethically is just out of reach for most people. For instance, the food that's more "good" (the company pays their employees well, the company is environmentally friendly, etc.) tends to be MUCH more expensive.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you for the spoiler alert in the beginning. I'm on the tail end of season 3 and looking forward to seeing what happens. Not all TH-camrs are so conscientious, and I appreciate that.
It's such a good show at looking at the complexity of morality and life but through a relatable lens. Kinda like this channel. Which is probably why I instantly fell in love with the show when I found out about it a few months ago.
When this video came out I bookmarked this because I wanted to watch A good place first. It took me years to get around to it but I finally did. Great show, and great video Hank
"It is harder to be the kind of person who seeks complex truths rather than retreats into simple lies, but it is also better" You have said many amazing things in the near many many years this channel has been a thing Hank, but that sentence might be one of my all time favourites.
LOVED this video, so much, so deep! (And as a Brit, I've not heard of this show and now want to watch it) Brene Brown was on Russell Brand's podcast a while ago and spoke about whether or not we believe people are doing the best they can...I think it was about compassion, but it blew my mind how my world view and views on morality and humans in general, change, based on my answer to that question. Thank you for tackling big questions in an entertaining fashion 💡
just watched seasons 1-3 in two days and the whole time i was like "when i'm done with this i can watch hank's video." great video and great show! ONTO SEASON FOUR
abdulaziz203 because every possible product you could buy under capitalism has some form of unethical act behind it. Whether that be horrible working conditions, the burning of rainforests, or the universal wage theft from bosses that exists for all members of the working class, you’ll always find something that is bad for someone. Ethical consumption is a myth of this system that tries to mask the real problem- capitalism.
First of all lovely video, secondly just because the head of the accounting department says the math is "cold objective and air tight" doesn't even mean it is in the world of the Good Place. Just because he says it doesn’t mean his not lying to protect his power, or believing despite the evidence, or showing no weakness because there’s sadly still the view that to truthfully critique your institution is to weaken it. We can’t be totally sure, just like real life. Part of the beauty of The Good Place is a bunch of powerful beings pretending/believing they are omnipotent humbled by a bunch of humans trying to get a fair shake. Heck that's one of the many things I love about the show, sure it shows you that the people within the superstructure believe in it or at least espouse belief in it but it then the show turns around and shows the flaws in that belief.
Edit: I had time to watch this, and I was definitely off-track initially, as you're speaking about the more complex and often unintended aspects of "goodness", but I'll leave my original post to spur on any would-be do-gooders out there. The title brought something out in me that I have to express: Yes, you can be a good person, and the amount of people choosing not to have no bearing on that. You probably won't "save the world", but you can help your friends, relatives, and even neighbors, saving your local part of the world one problem at a time. It doesn't take much, either. You can really brighten someone's day with a just cheerful greeting or by offering a shoulder to cry on when it comes time to cry. I'm not perfect, and I've yet to meet anyone who is, but aside from the hopefully brief moments in which I forget, the one thing I strive for is to be a good person, to do all those things I preached about in the previous sentences, and to be the most interesting incarnation of "me" possible, so that I can have fun, and people will hopefully enjoy my company when the opportunity presents itself.
I watched this even though I'm only on episode 1 of season 3 of The Good Place... I was kinda thinking I was done with the show but now I'm off to binge the whole third season! *simultaneously ironically and 100% genuinely:* Thanks Hank!
@@caitlin329 Oh no! Now I understand. I watch it on Netflix, and the only 3 seasons are available there. I just found out on Wikipedia that 4th season is currently being aired. Won't be able to see it until they release it on Netflix. :(
This seems strange to say bc I tend to love whatever content you throw out there (top tier Twik Twoks btw), but I think this my favorite vid! Thanks, Hank.
This was just a very very good video and I'm so glad I found this channel and the people around it who want to make the world a better place by looking at the complexities of the world instead of avoiding them and I'm probably gonna watch this video on half speed to ensure that I really get it. Also, I highly recommend the Good Place, the Podcast if you aren't listening to it already. It is wonderful.
I've actually found it easier and easier to be a good person as I grow older, despite some challenges life throws at us. Being good isn't about being perfect, just like being brave isn't about never feeling fear. I have a good female friend who had an oft difficult youth, and felt she needed to keep things under control by trying to be perfect. She soon realised it's causing her more harm than good, isn't the same as striving to be a good person, and is often just a reflection of overblown or outright false ideals. Ever since she became less hard on herself and rebuilt her self-confidence, she could finally continue helping people as she always wanted to, coming to terms with her past and learning to like herself, and also be more proactive and even make new friends. Me included, for which I am thankful for. :-) We do not need to be perfect people in order to be good. As they say, even saints sin seven times a day. The key thing is being ethical, humane and honest - that gives a firm enough foundation for striving to be good. The world is only ever as good or as much of a mess as we want it to be. Some people see broken things and want to further kick them and smash them, in blind, all-consuming anger. Then there are people who see broken things and try to heal them and mend them. The latter is what me, my dear friend, and plenty of other good people I know try to strive for.
I just finished watching the good place and I remembered this video that Hank made a couple years ago so I went back to watch it now that I actually understood the whole show. I completely agree with everything Hank said this show is phenomenal ❤
I love The Good Place, and love this video about The Good Place and also, this is a LOT but honestly I think being a good person means wanting to be a good person and trying to act like it to the best of your ability. And not being a good person only to other people but also to yourself.
One reaction I've been hearing by people who like to see things in a fairly simple way is along the lines of "don''t tell me I can't [complicated thing here]." But in almost all cases, no one is saying you /can't/, just that you /shouldn't/. So I think what they really mean is, "don't tell me I can't blank and be a good person". I think we need to be more careful in acknowledging that things are complicated and we all make make complicated choices, which is /John voice/ difficult to do on the social internet. Like you said in the description, maybe focus more on exploration and understanding with less judgement.
Hank, this video is incredible. I am a part of several insular groups that have very extreme opinions on different sides. I have been trying to advocate that people are not either moral or not, that everyone has their own ethical line-in-the-sand and just because someone draws theirs a little different than yours, doesn't mean they're a bad person. I have friends who won't go to Chik-fil-a (gay rights). I have friends who won't shop on Amazon (unethical working conditions). And friends who won't buy from Starbucks (prison labor). And friends who won't buy Nestle because they use large amounts of palm oil (hurting rainforest habitats). But all of these people do things that other would consider unethical. And when I try to get this point across, I feel like I'm just automatically lumped into the "bad people" category.
I love the Good Place, and the problem it has in-universe is precisely that it doesn't differentiate between the virtue of a person, the justness of actions, and the goodness of consequences. I hold that just actions will never introduce bad consequences, in the same way that a valid argument will not come to a false conclusion from true premises, but just actions in an injust world can nevertheless leave some bad consequences, because just being just doesn't completely eliminate all the bad that already existed, in the same way that a valid argument from false premises can still come to a false conclusion. And furthermore, that the virtue of a person lies in doing good and just things simply because they are good and just, in other words in being responsive to moral reasons, but nobody can ever have complete access to all moral reasons, just like nobody can ever have complete access to all reasons to believe facts about reality. So someone can be a virtuous person, being appropriately responsive to all the moral reasons they have access to, and yet still end up doing unjust actions out of ignorance. And even if someone somehow manages to act entirely justly and not introduce any new badness to the world, that doesn't mean that preexisting bad circumstances won't carry through their just actions to result in some bad consequences. The accounting system in The Good Place apparently looks only at the consequences that result from a person's actions, without apparently accounting for the prior circumstances in which those actions were taken or the moral reasons available to guide those actions. At least, in some episodes. In other episodes it's clear that doing the right thing for the wrong reason doesn't count. So, it's a TV show and it's not perfectly internally consistent. But I can't blame them, because this is a hard philosophical problem that even most actual philosophers don't get right, and the show's creators are doing the best they can with the information available to them and the circumstances they find themselves in.
among the many reasons to love this show, i love how The Good Place breaks the mold. biggest selling point to someone who's never seen it: it's like nothing else on TV. ever? i'm guessing so..
Me before video: spoilers for the good place? No problem, that show doesn't seem my speed anyway. Me after video: writing this comment while logging onto Netflix to watch the good place. Thanks, Hank! I just finished midterms so was in the market for my next binge show.
Thank you so much for this video. I feel like I want to be having this conversation, about what is moral and what we owe each other, all the time and with everyone right now, but I either get caught up in a narrow utilitarian judgmentalness or an apathetic screw-all-of-this attitude. Thank you for balancing them.
I haven't seen the show, so can't comment on that, but I can give my opinion on good/bad: I think everybody in this world is bad. Basically, “being a good person” to me means doing more good than bad. The level of pain caused by one bad act might outway the positive impact of many good acts, and we also have to measure in things such as guilt, repenting, apologising, pleading, forgiveness, acceptance, etc. It’s not an exact science, so it’s a difficult thing to quantify and most definitions of what is “good” and “bad” end up being superficial for this reason. Often, when we judge whether someone or something is good or bad, we look at what we see, and what we know about life and such actions, rather than being able to see a full picture of the world. Ignorance, at the end of the day, is the main cause for our inmorality. There’s also the fact that many of the things we do aren’t really "good acts", simply neutral. For example, I don’t think not killing someone is a “good act”, that’s simply basic common decency, a bare minimum. We don’t get points for not being a murderer, it’s simply the least we can do. Equally, I don’t get points for being zero-waste or being vegan, because being vegan simply means I’m not abusing animals. It’s neutral, it doesn’t really mean I’m doing anything positive or good though, it’s not a heroic act, not abusing animals is simply giving them basic rights. The thing is, I believe humans in this time and age cause more harm than good. (There is no reason to be defensive, unfortunately being defensive and optimistic don’t offer a realistic view of the situation when it comes to morality, haha.) Let’s say, for example, there is a woman called Jane. She is from the US and is 27 years old, middle class. She cares about the environment so she tries not to drive unless she has to. A comendable act, for sure. She is doing the best she knows within her knowledge of her impact on the environment. The problem some of us have, I have seen, is that we think “too much” about morality, and this eventually leads to becoming aware of more and more things we are doing wrong. Jane doesn’t feel like a bad person, because she cares for the environment and she tries not to drive, and doesn’t think beyond that. She doesn’t spend hours thinking about what it truly means to “care”, or what are the biggest environmental impacts of her lifestyle besides driving a car, or whether it’s moral for her to have a car at all, whether her paying for the highway has repercussions on the treatment of highway workers, whether cleaning her windows is going to affect birds crashing into them, how the colour of paint she chose was made and whether there was a more environmentally-friendly option, whether there is a moral justification for using the air-con or the radio, whether she is doing wrong by not offering her car up to carsharing, whether her definition of “has to drive” is even valid or if she could really find alternative options besides driving to get to a certain place, etc. Of course Jane feels like a good person, because she isn’t aware of all the “bad” things her actions could potentially cause. We could say that the more we learn about the world and our actions, the worse people we become. Being a good person, for me, ultimately, is not only a responsibility to keep learning more about the world and how I affect it, but thinking and changing my lifestyle and actions as much as humanly possible to avoid all these “negative acts” I know of. I don’t think I am a good person, because I know there are too many things that I don’t know about, and will probably never know about, and some of the things I do know about simply aren’t possible for me to include. My goal is not to be a good person, because if I ever think I am it will mean that I have become ignorant to the suffering around me that I can’t yet see. I just want to be better than I am now. When I die, I probably still won’t be able to say that I’m good, but I want to think “I did my best” and truly believe that I did everything I possibly could to be better. Humans are a terrible species. What we do to animals in the name of "food" is proof of that. But knowing that everyone is a terrible person has been the key for me to be able to forgive even the most cruel things people do.
So, we're not talking about how the idea that no one can be good because of the ramification of their choices mostly applies to first worlders, and how by the show's logic a lot of people from indigenous tribes should still go to the good place because their lives reply on less complex systems?
I feel sometimes like I'm watching an entire generation go through a slow-motion existential crisis, with long chai latte and phone breaks.
Since we as Gen Z don’t know when the midpoint of our lives are going to be, we have decided to have an ongoing crisis
I'm right there with you... It deeply saddens me, but I also see a lot of smart folks with good ideas planting a stake in the ground and telling the world to pike off with its bullcrap.
The second half of that sentence honestly sounds like a surprisingly apt description of my life.
It’s funny cause it’s true. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Wow. Top comment *and* a like from the channel!
I feel so good. 'Cuz I'm stupid.
I adore The Good Place, and how it spent two seasons giving a Philosophy 101 course and now season 3 is all "Surprise! Morality is complicated! And has consequences!" I love it.
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@@umarisbored6973 YT algorythm shows comments with many comments higher than ones with many likes. So it promotes controversial opinions not the "good" ones that everyone agrees with. In order to prevent it, one of the brothers suggested to put "+" in the comment section of the comment you like.
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The Good Place Season 1: this is a fun, cute show!
Thr Good Place Season 3: there is no ethical consumption under capitalism
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The Good Place: the only show on network television that contains both long, difficult, complicated discussions about morals and ethics...AND fart jokes!
You're forking right.
It's the smartest dumbest half hour of American Television.
While also still be a wholesome show where the characters care for each other! You'd think that a show about complex moral dilemma will be full of messed up, dysfunctional people.
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Nah, 'South Park' did it first.
“Contains spoilers”
*immediately goes to binge watch the entire of the Good Place*
Enjoy!
Highly recommended! Have fun watching :)
That is 1000% the correct response.
Honestly it's soooo good everyone should watch it.
Great choice!!!
SEASON 2 SPOILERS:
"The real question, Eleanor, is what do we owe each other?"
I still find that line to be one of the most moving I've ever heard on television. But yes, it's a difficult question to answer.
*LOVE*
the answer
Nothing. We owe each other nothing
“Consider it: every person you have ever met, every person will suffer the loss of his friends and family. All are going to lose everything they love in this world. Why would one want to be anything but kind to them in the meantime?” -Sam Harris
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“There’s only one rule that I know of, babies-God damn it, you’ve got to be kind.” - Kurt Vonnegut
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There was also a theme in the most recent episode about trying to be a better person today than you were yesterday. So not having to be perfect, not having to meet some arbitrary threshold, but just generally trying to get better.
Spoilers for season 4:
There's a line that's definitely going to stick with me for a while as I've been conflicted whether i should continue to struggle with complicated truths or retreat to simple and somewhat blissful lies as Hank perfectly said.
"What matters isn’t if people are good or bad; what matters is if they’re trying to be better today than they were yesterday.”
And I really do. The Good Place is such phenomenal writing and glad I'm following it to the end.
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Hm. Havent watched the good place but this made me almost cry.
Okay.
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This felt like the beginning of a really complex and intriguing video essay and I was jolted when it abruptly stopped after only 4 minutes
Welcome to Vlogbrothers.
It's educational, but is it the right kind of educational to avoid a punishment? That's the kind of accounting that happens in these parts.
Check out a channel called The Take, they have a great video essay on The Good Place!
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@@TheBaronessBlack thank u so much for this recommendation!!! i'm looking into it rn!!!
How on Earth did you find time to make well-thought-out, well-researched content during PIZZAMAS?? This is very good and I will be sharing.
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I'm voting he wrote it ahead.
“It’s almost as if utilitarianism relies on a hyper individualised worldview that isn’t reflective of reality.”
YES HANK!
It's almost as though consumerism is a bad thing!
I don't really understand what he means by this. Isn't the whole point of utilitarianism to look at the bigger picture and not focus on the individual? If he's talking about the pseudo-utilitarian, neoliberal, means-test-everything world view that currently dominates politics, I understand, but I don't know if that's what he's referring to
That said, deontology is also very very VERY bad
Learning a bit about Jeremy Bentham, as a person, is probably a good idea before you invest too heavily in utilitarianism.
@@MakeMeThinkAgain You can say that about literally any historical figure lol. Kant, Plato, Socrates, Hume, John Stuart Mill, all believed terrible/racist things, but that doesn't mean we should discard their ideas.
This video reminds me of a video I saw a while ago where this guy talked about how we can't keep up with world news. News is so fast and so constant that keeping up with all the bad stuff (because the news is almost exclusively bad) takes a huge toll on our health.
With Jason's analogy about his friend who doesn't have time to research the implications of his every action, it's worth noting that it's not just time. It can also be about mental energy/health and how much effort you feel you can put into certain tasks.
so this isn't as much about research as it is keeping up with the news in a way that doesn't eat your brain, I'm subscribed to a daily newsletter called "1440" that gives pretty much everything major going on the previous day in the most objective, bite-sized way possible. It's kinda like a newspaper but free! I know I probably sound like an ad read but it's improved the health of my news viewing time tremendously and I figured I'd give it a reccomend
I'm a simple man. I see something related to The Good Place, I click like and like and like and like...
I'm a simple woman, I see hank green, I watch the video despite spoilers of a show I'm watching...and I click like and like and like.
I'm glad you liked it a third time because that second like unliked the video.
I think the point of this video and of TGP season 3 is that you CAN'T just claim to be a simple man and to act on a single principle.......
okay so hear me out here: can we get Hank on The Good Place: The Podcast
Ethan Binder I second this. Someone call Marc Evan Jackson
That was my first thought too let’s make this happen
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I love the podcast. Having hank on would be awesome!
* shakes magic 8 ball *
"Outcome seems unlikely"
*signs point to yes*
@@ashleighdecandole1513 Yours is better!
😂
“It’s almost as if the Internet AMPLIFIES YOUR WORLDVIEW.”
Yes yes yes.
"It's almost as if utilitarianism relies on a hyper-individualistic worldview that isn't reflective of reality."
Had to pause, think for a sec, rewind, listen on .5x speed, and then pause and think again.
Good shit today, Hank.
Pearl127 the alternative is not much better, possibly far far worse
Now I'm thinking about that quote on how unreasonable ways of seeing the world create progress in unreasonable ways. People that choose worldviews that don't match reality, but challenge it to shape it to crazy ends. More shape our systems I suppose, than actual reality.
I love that my favorite channel is talking about my favorite TV show!! I think The Good Place comes at a critical time for culture, because we're all realizing that things in this world are complex and that we need to engage with the complexity in order to really be Good People, whatever that may mean. Cancel culture comes to mind especially - it's a nice idea but like you said, our accounting departments will always be flawed because WE will always be flawed. Thanks for this video Hank!!
I love it when thoughtfulness I enjoy is being thoughtful about OTHER thoughtfulness I enjoy.
I always love Hank's pop culture takes. In a TH-cam landscape sort of saturated with them it is amazing to me that he always manages to find a fresh and consice angle to shows that makes me see them differently and appreciate them more.
I feel like you do the best you can, for who you can, when you can, and that's kind of all you can do. Also I use oat milk for my coffee, cuz I'm allergic to almonds, coincidental win!
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Loovee the show, love the commentary
The failure of the accounting department is even more interesting in the context of the chinese Social Credit system.
If everyone is bad then locking them up is always the right answer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
On the contrary, the social credit system is succeeding wonderfully. For crushing dissent, that is.
I keep seeing stuff about The Good Place popping up. *adds it to the ever growing content watch list*
I do really appreciate the work you and John do to try and be as nuanced as possible. It’s really impacted me as a person, and I hope it never stops.
The fact that I have in the last few weeks discovered that Hank watches and likes The Good Place has maybe made me like him 10x more than I did before, something I didn't think was possible. Best show on TV hands down.
For the love of god, please make a more detailed video on hankschannel on this topic hank, no wonder pizzamas is literally one of my most favorite times of the year. i know these words are awfully overused but then I again I feel an obligation to say, I love you guys. I don't know how to say it better.
Mr Green, this video, this discussion, could not have come at a better time for me. I've been in a pretty "Bad Place" myself these past few months, and this insight really struck a chord with me. It's not the first time I've been moved by your words and I hope it's not the last, but it's the most topical one yet. Thank you for making this
Being Buddhist, my ‘judgement of people’ or myself is always filtered by intent. Did I intend to hurt someone and now that I am aware that a certain action hurts people, what can I do to minimize that ‘hurt’.
I don’t believe in the heaven and hell concept and I gave up on The Good Place in mid episode 2 in season 2.....mmhhh, I think I will go back and look at it again.
Thanks Hank, once again a gem of a video🙏🏽
Two points: One I like, one I think got missed.
1) ‘Pop’ utilitarianism: thank you. Absolutely right. Utilitarianism is far more nuanced than people generally give it credit for and so the calculations are often done badly if not entirely incorrectly. (I say this as a non-utilitarian ethicist - with like...degrees and stuff)
2) The mere fact that one acts wrongly says little about (a) one’s culpability (I.e. blameworthy-ness) for the action or one’s character as a good or bad person. By and large systems like utilitarianism and deontology (Kantian, Social Contract Theories, Rights etc. ) are focused on evaluating ACTION not CHARACTER. If what gets you to the Good Place is the latter, then one’s actions (as evaluated by these two systems) may be less (or even un)important. Those of good character may be forced to do ‘bad’ things in some circumstances while remaining ‘good’ people. Good people are permitted errors (excusable bad actions) or circumstances may actually allow (or demand) bad actions from good folks (rare but possible). Don’t stress...too much. :)
But how do you know if the person doing the bad thing has good character or not? And how do you recognize if the bad things you plan to do are outweighed/justified by your character?
Pendlera character is determined by a consistent pattern of behavior(more or less) indicative of particular virtues (beneficence, courage, etc). A person with these virtues cannot act ‘wrongly’ as long as she (or he) acts in accordance with the virtues. A virtuous person doesn’t commit bad actions by definition. It’s a skill set one develops by mimicking paradigmatic virtuous people.
Excusability is generally grounded in either the circumstances or in some feature about the actor. For example, stealing is wrong (both utilitarianism and deontology agree on this, though for different reasons), but if you accidentally walk out of a store without paying for that apple you forgot you dropped into your bag intending to buy it, you’re probably excused to at least some extent. You didn’t know you were stealing (you forgot you had it) and you didn’t intend to take it without paying (you intended to buy it and forgot). You did something wrong, but you aren’t completely blameworthy for the wrong act. As such it doesn’t reflect your character (forgetfulness isn’t generally considered a moral vice).
Long. Sorry. But I hope that helps :)
Oh my! What a coincidence. I was watching a video analysing how The Good Place is transforming the sitcom genre and reading analyses of the show online this morning, and boom, in the evening you post a video about it! Amazing.
On a more serious note, I love how this show explores philosophical concepts in such a fun manner and still reaches nuanced conclusions.
The message to ‘try to be better’ instead of thinking in binaries like ‘good’ or ‘bad’ that are too intertwined to discern in the modern world resonates with me.
Another masterpiece by Michael Schur!
Hank... I feel a strange and wonderful joy in characterizing you, John, and several other deep thinking youtubers, as modern day philosophers that I can access from my pocket. As mentors in increasingly complex world, I feel like you have an ability to draw a picture on our cave wall that allows us to understand what is outside. Education and really TRYING to grasp what ails our world society helps me see how I can personally grow. Thank you for continuing to create content that shines a light. It means a lot. And it really resonates. I've watched most of season one and two... thanks for not spoiling 3 too much btw... and I could feel these things but your ability to put them into concise words really helps. Keep. Going.
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"Humanity is about always making progress forever and so knowing the work is never going to be done, but it's going to be better if you take the average over a long period of time." - A quote from Hank Green on Dear Hank and John from a while ago that I printed out and stuck on my wall.
Hank, paraphrasing Martin Luther King, who was paraphrasing Theodore Parker.
Thank you for commenting this I guess I hadn't seen that episode but that's a great quote
I'M AM SO HAPPY YOU MADE THIS VIDEO!!!! I recently binge watched the season in one night and it made me feel more serene about the complexity of buying tomatoes, and simply... Existing.
"Individuals make decisions; I will never say that's not the case."
Spicy hot take there, Hank
I mean kinda? Determinism might be a thing so yeah, individuals might not make decisions.
Interestingly enough, those who believe in determinism are significantly more likely to do fewer good deeds when given the opportunity. I don’t remember which studies specifically but they’re out there
If you find those studies let me know, because my personal experience tells me that determinist are MUCH more likely to donate time and money to the betterment of others.
Although it kinda makes intuitive sense to think that since as a determinist you can never take credit for your good behavior
Omg yas! The Good Place! Aaaahh! Love that show so much!
Apart from being great entertainment, I liked how it actually taught me philosophy - moral particularism is my favorite one!
I also liked how they came up with an answer to the trolley problem
it makes me so happy that such a deep and good show is so popular
i love its criticisms of utilitarianism
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THANK YOU for immediately stating there will be spoilers!!!! I just finished season 2 and have managed to avoid season 3 spoilers for a year (and hopefully will avoid season 4 spoilers as those happen). Just really appreciate the warning; adding this to my To Watch list for later. I don't think I've ever hit the pause button so fast. XD
Thank you for talking about The Good Place! I've spent the last year telling everyone who will listen that this show is excellent and they should watch it. It's cerebral and acknowledges the complexity of ethics and philosophy but it's also pretty down to earth and genuinely funny. You end up learning and thinking without realizing it.
I love The Good Place so much and really resonate with Hank's conclusions. Also, the show has made me think about and feel so many things about people and the world, and I'm just glad that I'm not the only person who thinks possibly way too much about this show because we enjoy it so much.
The judge: *goes to earth*
The judge:"This is the bad place!"
Hank was a giant squid of anger in this video for a moment and it was well placed and perfectly adorable
I started watching this video 5 days ago when it was uploaded, learnt it contained spoilers from The Good Place and stopped watching. I'm now back after having binged up to Season 4 episode 3. Very good show, very good video. Thanks for being the final push to actually watch the show!
I love the good place and especially the ending of season 3 stuck in my head for such a long time. I really like to think about things and make good or "better" choices in my life (whatever this means).^^ This "never good enough"-mentality pointed out in the finale felt like a big mirror for the world we live in at the moment. Like the fact that you maybe try to be more environmentally friendly and there are a lot people always pointing out what "bad" things you are still doing. Seeing things as "good" and "bad" can be very harmful in itself, but feeling like every choice is judged harshly can lead to not even trying at all! I love the good place for dealing with today's complex questions of morality and I am excited to watch season 4 soon. :)
Oh my god I'm so excited for this video (especially because of the conversation you and Katherine had on Delete This)
Of COURSE you watch the Good Place. My favorite youtuber watches my favorite show. Love seeing your wasp nostrils daily, happy Pizzamas! 🙌🏽
Honestly my favourite thing I've gotten from this season has to be how what defines you as a good person is if you are trying to be a better version of yourself today than you were yesterday.
So glad you're a fan of The Good Place. This is one of the best shows on television, and never in my lifetime has there been a greater need for a sitcom about moral philosophy.
YES. I forkin’ love The Good Place. I started watching it this year and caught up on Netflix. Sad it will be ending, but relieved it’s the writers’ choice and hoping that means we’ll get a great conclusion. Complex, but great. This also explains that poll you had on Twitter the other day lol.
This is one of my favorite videos. I can't believe how succinctly the question "how good is good enough?". Thanks about the oatmilk too.
I am so in love with The Good Place. I want to shout it from the rooftops. Thank you for another great video Hank.
So glad to see that one of my favorite TH-camrs appreciates one of my favorite shows! Happy Pizzamis!
I can't tell you how ecstatic to see this video. Two of my favorite things coming together! I didn't think that was possible.
I recently finished the series & loved it.
Something I keep thinking about, in relation to being a good person, is that some people do not have the means to buy the most ethically source items. They aren't bad people at all, buying ethically is just out of reach for most people. For instance, the food that's more "good" (the company pays their employees well, the company is environmentally friendly, etc.) tends to be MUCH more expensive.
Thank you thank you thank you thank you for the spoiler alert in the beginning. I'm on the tail end of season 3 and looking forward to seeing what happens. Not all TH-camrs are so conscientious, and I appreciate that.
I didn’t know Stephan Merchant was in the Good Place! I heard his voice and immediately was like “WHEATLY”!!!!
At 0:50
OMIGOD WHAT HE'S WHEATLY?? :O
Same!! When I watched that episode I recognized his voice and I was like "...wait a minute..."
Sam Webb THATS WHERE I KNOW HIS VOICE FROM
It's such a good show at looking at the complexity of morality and life but through a relatable lens. Kinda like this channel. Which is probably why I instantly fell in love with the show when I found out about it a few months ago.
When this video came out I bookmarked this because I wanted to watch A good place first. It took me years to get around to it but I finally did. Great show, and great video Hank
yes!!!! i’ve loved the good place so much and i greatly appreciate your thoughts on it. thank u hank
"It is harder to be the kind of person who seeks complex truths rather than retreats into simple lies, but it is also better"
You have said many amazing things in the near many many years this channel has been a thing Hank, but that sentence might be one of my all time favourites.
LOVED this video, so much, so deep! (And as a Brit, I've not heard of this show and now want to watch it) Brene Brown was on Russell Brand's podcast a while ago and spoke about whether or not we believe people are doing the best they can...I think it was about compassion, but it blew my mind how my world view and views on morality and humans in general, change, based on my answer to that question. Thank you for tackling big questions in an entertaining fashion 💡
So great insights to life through a show, Hank!!!
Thank you, thank you, thank you for the warning at the beginning! I’ll come back when I’ve watched further in The Good Place.
F***, f***, f***, I seriously needed to hear this; I’ve been needing it for the last year. Thank you Hank.
This is the effing best, Hank. So thoughtful. Such great conclusions from such a great show 💙
just watched seasons 1-3 in two days and the whole time i was like "when i'm done with this i can watch hank's video." great video and great show! ONTO SEASON FOUR
I forking love this video. Thank you for putting into words the concepts I struggle with internally daily.
Remember friends! There is no ethical consumption under capitalism ☺️
Every time I think about that I just want to scream until I become the void itself
Why not?
Comrade Hank?
abdulaziz203 because every possible product you could buy under capitalism has some form of unethical act behind it. Whether that be horrible working conditions, the burning of rainforests, or the universal wage theft from bosses that exists for all members of the working class, you’ll always find something that is bad for someone. Ethical consumption is a myth of this system that tries to mask the real problem- capitalism.
came here to say this 😂
I forking love this show!
The latest episode when Michael talked about his hope in humanity and I just 🥺🥺🥺🥺
The Good Place is an excellent show and you applied it clearly to the world. Thank you for breaking it down for us!
First of all lovely video, secondly just because the head of the accounting department says the math is "cold objective and air tight" doesn't even mean it is in the world of the Good Place. Just because he says it doesn’t mean his not lying to protect his power, or believing despite the evidence, or showing no weakness because there’s sadly still the view that to truthfully critique your institution is to weaken it. We can’t be totally sure, just like real life.
Part of the beauty of The Good Place is a bunch of powerful beings pretending/believing they are omnipotent humbled by a bunch of humans trying to get a fair shake. Heck that's one of the many things I love about the show, sure it shows you that the people within the superstructure believe in it or at least espouse belief in it but it then the show turns around and shows the flaws in that belief.
Edit: I had time to watch this, and I was definitely off-track initially, as you're speaking about the more complex and often unintended aspects of "goodness", but I'll leave my original post to spur on any would-be do-gooders out there.
The title brought something out in me that I have to express: Yes, you can be a good person, and the amount of people choosing not to have no bearing on that. You probably won't "save the world", but you can help your friends, relatives, and even neighbors, saving your local part of the world one problem at a time. It doesn't take much, either. You can really brighten someone's day with a just cheerful greeting or by offering a shoulder to cry on when it comes time to cry. I'm not perfect, and I've yet to meet anyone who is, but aside from the hopefully brief moments in which I forget, the one thing I strive for is to be a good person, to do all those things I preached about in the previous sentences, and to be the most interesting incarnation of "me" possible, so that I can have fun, and people will hopefully enjoy my company when the opportunity presents itself.
Thanks Hank. as a big fan of the good place it's nice to see a take on it from a creator I love and have been following for a very long time.
I watched this even though I'm only on episode 1 of season 3 of The Good Place... I was kinda thinking I was done with the show but now I'm off to binge the whole third season!
*simultaneously ironically and 100% genuinely:* Thanks Hank!
I can honestly say that this year's Pizzamas content has been high caliber! Maybe the best Pizzamas yet!
This might be my new favorite video of yours on this channel hank I absolutely love how you think and can voice your thinking
Hank you’re from Florida it doesn’t matter
As a Floridian.... Ow, but yeah.
Yay! I've finished watching the show and seeing that you're discussing it makes me so excited!
Are you caught up with the new season?
@@caitlin329 Yes. I love how the show throws a complete curve ball by the end of the season. The third season was amazing.
@@rsn180690 No, I mean the one currently airing. The fourth and final season.
@@caitlin329 Oh no! Now I understand. I watch it on Netflix, and the only 3 seasons are available there. I just found out on Wikipedia that 4th season is currently being aired. Won't be able to see it until they release it on Netflix. :(
@@rsn180690 Are you in the US? I think you can get a free tria and watch stuff on the app. Just for future reference with other shows.
This seems strange to say bc I tend to love whatever content you throw out there (top tier Twik Twoks btw), but I think this my favorite vid! Thanks, Hank.
This was just a very very good video and I'm so glad I found this channel and the people around it who want to make the world a better place by looking at the complexities of the world instead of avoiding them and I'm probably gonna watch this video on half speed to ensure that I really get it. Also, I highly recommend the Good Place, the Podcast if you aren't listening to it already. It is wonderful.
I've actually found it easier and easier to be a good person as I grow older, despite some challenges life throws at us. Being good isn't about being perfect, just like being brave isn't about never feeling fear. I have a good female friend who had an oft difficult youth, and felt she needed to keep things under control by trying to be perfect. She soon realised it's causing her more harm than good, isn't the same as striving to be a good person, and is often just a reflection of overblown or outright false ideals. Ever since she became less hard on herself and rebuilt her self-confidence, she could finally continue helping people as she always wanted to, coming to terms with her past and learning to like herself, and also be more proactive and even make new friends. Me included, for which I am thankful for. :-) We do not need to be perfect people in order to be good. As they say, even saints sin seven times a day. The key thing is being ethical, humane and honest - that gives a firm enough foundation for striving to be good. The world is only ever as good or as much of a mess as we want it to be. Some people see broken things and want to further kick them and smash them, in blind, all-consuming anger. Then there are people who see broken things and try to heal them and mend them. The latter is what me, my dear friend, and plenty of other good people I know try to strive for.
I just finished watching the good place and I remembered this video that Hank made a couple years ago so I went back to watch it now that I actually understood the whole show. I completely agree with everything Hank said this show is phenomenal ❤
I love The Good Place, and love this video about The Good Place and also, this is a LOT but honestly I think being a good person means wanting to be a good person and trying to act like it to the best of your ability. And not being a good person only to other people but also to yourself.
This is generally one of my favorite shows
Glad to see you trying to spread this message. 😉
possibly one of my favorite videos ever. I love combining 2 of my faves
One reaction I've been hearing by people who like to see things in a fairly simple way is along the lines of "don''t tell me I can't [complicated thing here]." But in almost all cases, no one is saying you /can't/, just that you /shouldn't/. So I think what they really mean is, "don't tell me I can't blank and be a good person". I think we need to be more careful in acknowledging that things are complicated and we all make make complicated choices, which is /John voice/ difficult to do on the social internet. Like you said in the description, maybe focus more on exploration and understanding with less judgement.
Hank, this video is incredible. I am a part of several insular groups that have very extreme opinions on different sides. I have been trying to advocate that people are not either moral or not, that everyone has their own ethical line-in-the-sand and just because someone draws theirs a little different than yours, doesn't mean they're a bad person. I have friends who won't go to Chik-fil-a (gay rights). I have friends who won't shop on Amazon (unethical working conditions). And friends who won't buy from Starbucks (prison labor). And friends who won't buy Nestle because they use large amounts of palm oil (hurting rainforest habitats). But all of these people do things that other would consider unethical. And when I try to get this point across, I feel like I'm just automatically lumped into the "bad people" category.
I love The Good Place so much because it is a light hearted funny show that also makes me question everything about myself and my choices.
It's one of the best comedies I've ever seen and your commentary is brilliantly concise 👏🏼
I love the Good Place, and the problem it has in-universe is precisely that it doesn't differentiate between the virtue of a person, the justness of actions, and the goodness of consequences.
I hold that just actions will never introduce bad consequences, in the same way that a valid argument will not come to a false conclusion from true premises, but just actions in an injust world can nevertheless leave some bad consequences, because just being just doesn't completely eliminate all the bad that already existed, in the same way that a valid argument from false premises can still come to a false conclusion.
And furthermore, that the virtue of a person lies in doing good and just things simply because they are good and just, in other words in being responsive to moral reasons, but nobody can ever have complete access to all moral reasons, just like nobody can ever have complete access to all reasons to believe facts about reality.
So someone can be a virtuous person, being appropriately responsive to all the moral reasons they have access to, and yet still end up doing unjust actions out of ignorance.
And even if someone somehow manages to act entirely justly and not introduce any new badness to the world, that doesn't mean that preexisting bad circumstances won't carry through their just actions to result in some bad consequences.
The accounting system in The Good Place apparently looks only at the consequences that result from a person's actions, without apparently accounting for the prior circumstances in which those actions were taken or the moral reasons available to guide those actions. At least, in some episodes. In other episodes it's clear that doing the right thing for the wrong reason doesn't count.
So, it's a TV show and it's not perfectly internally consistent. But I can't blame them, because this is a hard philosophical problem that even most actual philosophers don't get right, and the show's creators are doing the best they can with the information available to them and the circumstances they find themselves in.
Yes, love this type of content from Hank!
“I’d rather have questions that can’t be answered than answers that can’t be questioned”
-apologies, I forgot who wrote this quote
among the many reasons to love this show, i love how The Good Place breaks the mold. biggest selling point to someone who's never seen it: it's like nothing else on TV. ever? i'm guessing so..
Me before video: spoilers for the good place? No problem, that show doesn't seem my speed anyway.
Me after video: writing this comment while logging onto Netflix to watch the good place.
Thanks, Hank! I just finished midterms so was in the market for my next binge show.
Just had to check that the U.K. was up to date with the show and surprisingly we are so I am free to watch this
Super enjoyed this Hank. The " Good Place" is one of my favorite shows
Thank you so much for this video. I feel like I want to be having this conversation, about what is moral and what we owe each other, all the time and with everyone right now, but I either get caught up in a narrow utilitarian judgmentalness or an apathetic screw-all-of-this attitude. Thank you for balancing them.
Woah.
I should watch this show. Thanks for the hugely thought provoking video, Hank.
I haven't seen the show, so can't comment on that, but I can give my opinion on good/bad: I think everybody in this world is bad. Basically, “being a good person” to me means doing more good than bad.
The level of pain caused by one bad act might outway the positive impact of many good acts, and we also have to measure in things such as guilt, repenting, apologising, pleading, forgiveness, acceptance, etc. It’s not an exact science, so it’s a difficult thing to quantify and most definitions of what is “good” and “bad” end up being superficial for this reason. Often, when we judge whether someone or something is good or bad, we look at what we see, and what we know about life and such actions, rather than being able to see a full picture of the world. Ignorance, at the end of the day, is the main cause for our inmorality.
There’s also the fact that many of the things we do aren’t really "good acts", simply neutral. For example, I don’t think not killing someone is a “good act”, that’s simply basic common decency, a bare minimum. We don’t get points for not being a murderer, it’s simply the least we can do. Equally, I don’t get points for being zero-waste or being vegan, because being vegan simply means I’m not abusing animals. It’s neutral, it doesn’t really mean I’m doing anything positive or good though, it’s not a heroic act, not abusing animals is simply giving them basic rights.
The thing is, I believe humans in this time and age cause more harm than good. (There is no reason to be defensive, unfortunately being defensive and optimistic don’t offer a realistic view of the situation when it comes to morality, haha.) Let’s say, for example, there is a woman called Jane. She is from the US and is 27 years old, middle class. She cares about the environment so she tries not to drive unless she has to. A comendable act, for sure. She is doing the best she knows within her knowledge of her impact on the environment.
The problem some of us have, I have seen, is that we think “too much” about morality, and this eventually leads to becoming aware of more and more things we are doing wrong. Jane doesn’t feel like a bad person, because she cares for the environment and she tries not to drive, and doesn’t think beyond that. She doesn’t spend hours thinking about what it truly means to “care”, or what are the biggest environmental impacts of her lifestyle besides driving a car, or whether it’s moral for her to have a car at all, whether her paying for the highway has repercussions on the treatment of highway workers, whether cleaning her windows is going to affect birds crashing into them, how the colour of paint she chose was made and whether there was a more environmentally-friendly option, whether there is a moral justification for using the air-con or the radio, whether she is doing wrong by not offering her car up to carsharing, whether her definition of “has to drive” is even valid or if she could really find alternative options besides driving to get to a certain place, etc. Of course Jane feels like a good person, because she isn’t aware of all the “bad” things her actions could potentially cause. We could say that the more we learn about the world and our actions, the worse people we become.
Being a good person, for me, ultimately, is not only a responsibility to keep learning more about the world and how I affect it, but thinking and changing my lifestyle and actions as much as humanly possible to avoid all these “negative acts” I know of.
I don’t think I am a good person, because I know there are too many things that I don’t know about, and will probably never know about, and some of the things I do know about simply aren’t possible for me to include. My goal is not to be a good person, because if I ever think I am it will mean that I have become ignorant to the suffering around me that I can’t yet see. I just want to be better than I am now. When I die, I probably still won’t be able to say that I’m good, but I want to think “I did my best” and truly believe that I did everything I possibly could to be better.
Humans are a terrible species. What we do to animals in the name of "food" is proof of that. But knowing that everyone is a terrible person has been the key for me to be able to forgive even the most cruel things people do.
Such a good vídeo, i love this show and i loved to hear You talk about it 🥰
So, we're not talking about how the idea that no one can be good because of the ramification of their choices mostly applies to first worlders, and how by the show's logic a lot of people from indigenous tribes should still go to the good place because their lives reply on less complex systems?
Vlog Brothers was the first channel I subscribed to way back when. This is why.