Watch my previous interviews with these guests: Helen Joyce: th-cam.com/video/ZG9_lcln7FU/w-d-xo.html Eric Kaufmann: th-cam.com/video/TlzLQO6bRdM/w-d-xo.html
@drpeterboghossian when are you doing street epistemology in NYC on the trans topic? perhaps it may be helpful to start getting input from rational-thinking, non-woke people who actually suffer from gender dysphoria. I nominate myself.
Helen spoke about burkas being sexist, but how is that much different than women being required to wear bikini tops and men not? Both fall into the same descriptions she gave, reducing lust.
Helen is just great! She cuts through all the language gymnastics, the attempts at mysticism and layer upon layer of glittery, sparkly veil the gender cult has tried to erect. She shows us the grim reality of what’s going on behind it all! Amazing woman. 👏 👏 👏
She shows that you can deny reality but not the consequences of denying reality. This is so true in relation to safeguarding issues . She is a credit to us all
I really admire her deeply, but in this video she finally managed to not combine various flowery prints so I could fully concentrate on the message without my eyes constantly screaming mayhem at me.. Helen, you looked amazing! Uni colours are looking great on you. ❤
@aldovaneyk - No, I wouldn't say that in this case. There were definitely 3 adults in this room. Eric Kaufmann made some excellent points. And Peter did a brilliant job of framing the discussion.
@@wiseonwords I absolutely agree actually. It was more of a comment on her general demeanor, she reminds me of a stern Mom giving her kids the what's what. In pretty much every conversation. They were all fantastic though!
It will be interesting to see how the legal case in Australia of Tickle v Giggle turns out. Helen is one of the people that will be called i believe, not to mention Sall Grover, the CEO of Giggle is equally impressive i would say.
Helen Joyce, Kathleen Stock, Abigail Shrier, Debra Soh, Kellie JK, Miriam Grossman, Helen Pluckrose... There are so many erudite, articulate, passionate, and brave women kicking arse for all of us - brilliant WOMEN (The only kind - objective biological kind). 🙏🏼👌🏼❤️🔥
Concise isn't a word I would use for her. She can go on and on and on and on. I am a fan, regardless. She is one of the few who listening to her ramblings is always still worth it.
@@biggregg5 are you the concise police sir? Do you alone get to determine when the speaker says enough words to move from concise to say, long winded? What a useless comment. In my opinion she is concise, is that better?
JP talks too much and doesn’t know this topic as well as HJ, I’m afraid. But I would recommend listening to Helen talk with *anyone* about gender/trans stuff because she really is that good, and always says something new in each discussion.
@@slacktoryrecords4193I agree. It’s amazing how Helen Joyce can approach this from so many different angles. She has a phenomenal mind, and a gift for expressing things in an understandable way. I’m so glad she is here in this debate, together with all our other champions of the truth and sanity.
I am mother of 4 from Finland. I dont identfy as a woman because I am a woman. I dont know what part of me is womanhood, my personality, how I was raced, family history and so on. I dont know what part of me is womanhood because I dont know anything else. In 2024 dudes know what is womanhood. This is BS. It is xx cromosome. Jesus help me!
We need more Street Epistemology with smart people like this! Helen Joyce was a master class in logic and rhetoric. She convinced Kauffman every single time (who's also a clear, concise speaker). P.S. Boghossian, I try to emulate you when I lead discussions in class. You're my model teacher. Neutral responses, probing questions, listens to understand. Thank you for these videos, as always.
the problem is they need to get someone on the complete other side. And then we can see that people on the other side cannot be convinced of their lunacy no matter how much logic you throw at them
Simplest way to put it is that the English language always has a single word describing a multi-part idea. “Gender” is simply the one word description of the term “biological sex”. Otherwise a word would exist to describe the category.
@richardfarris2227 0 seconds ago You gotta know the activists who speak languages where all pronouns have a masculine and feminine tense go crazy over that. They’re already confused I can only imagine them trying to find their way through that linguistic fog bank.
Let’s just get to the essence of this debate. Gender identity is a legal term that has no place in reality and is the stepping stone to full trans humanism. Ie human consciousness downloaded into synthetic humans. Read the Self ID laws already in place in many countries. When individuals can change the sex marker on their birth certificate every year, back and forth you know it’s got nothing to do with anything material or real. .
Helen Joyce is a force! That she can argue from an opposing position is genuinely impressive too - shows the depth of her knowledge on the subject and her intelligence
Wow, what a captivating and intelligent conversation! Loved this episode and I adore Helen Joyce! She explains her stance very thoughtfully and in a way which is easy to comprehend. We need more people like Helen.
This was excellent, I just wish it was longer. Helen is always compelling. Ireland’s gift to this whole debate. Eric’s input was interesting too. More please, Peter.
I still don't quite understand what the objective characteristics of a woman are. If the argument were that transitioning socially or medically does more harm than good, fine. But to deny that the concept of a woman or man is a social construct strikes me as false.
Doctor, do you think "hen" is a social construct as well or is it a biological category? Is it an adult female member of the Gallus gallus domesticus species? Is a woman an adult female member of the Homo sapiens species?
@@nikolaneberemed I think this topic is much more complicated than it is often made out to be. Human brains are more complicated than a hens. If you are interested in my point of view, please read further. I am very much interested in understanding yours. Humans have a variety of characteristics that undergo sexual differentiation in the womb. Some of these characteristics are mostly related to the brain. Sexual attraction for example is a result of many factors (genetics, pre natal androgen exposure, environment). The brain is sexually differentiated at a later time than physical characteristics such as the development of primary sex organs. An adult human female can have same sex attraction, despite having normally developed primary sex organs. Gender identity can in the same way differ from your outward appearance, as it develops later than physical sex differences. A change in the hormonal environment in the womb can have a massive influence on the psychological expression of sex. To summarise my point: humans have characteristics that exist on a spectrum of male - female. The specific set of characteristics we use to identify a person with a certain sex are in my opinion arbitrary and socially constructed. We could just as well only use a person's gender identity instead of chromosomes, sex organs, etc.
@@Leon-ty6bw the criteria we use to identify an adult human female are real and not a social construct. Chromosomes actually exist, as do primary sex characteristics. My point is that using these characteristics to define someone as a woman is arbitrary. A chair is made of parts that actually exist, such as legs, a seat, a backseat. But defining the concept of a chair is difficult. Does a chair have to have arms? No. Does it have to have a backseat? No. Is a chair without a backseat a stool? Is a stool a chair? How many legs does a chair have to have? It is impossible to create a consistent definition without "fuzzy" edges. All our concepts are constructed and do not exist in "nature". They are useful tools to explain the world around us but we can and should debate specific definitions and evaluate their utility.
A while back, Jordan Peterson made a claim that a lot of progressive rage is actually existential in nature; that the individuals are, I believe his words were, "angry at God for the crime of being." He was memed on pretty hard, but I think there's some truth in it. Helen makes a tangential point at 18:58 in regard to transhood. To me, transhood has always seemed like an act of rebellion. To the individual, life is brutal and short, full of responsibilities and assumptions thrust upon us that we had no say in accepting. On top of that, you're further constrained by your own biology. You're either a man or a woman, privy to all the hormonal, biological processes attributed to one side or the other, and forced to contend with all the social norms and obligations applied to your sex. This has to be especially galling to a child who has been told they can be whatever they want to be. I suspect transhood arises (in some) as a response to these constraints, both societal and biological. It's the individual unconsciously proclaiming, "I am more than my body."
So have I. I never get tired of listening to her. And if it’s not on TH-cam, I’ll find her on a podcast, Twitter, wherever she’s speaking, I’m there! I also subscribe to her newsletter.
@@slacktoryrecords4193 she is no nonsense and I appreciate it. Sort of empowered me to not stand for the nonsense anymore! I live in the US and we don’t have anyone like her here fighting this fight. I’ll have to check out her newsletters!
But they’re not just stopping there, they’re saying it’s a proxy for sex and that one’s “gender identity” entitles them to expect others to see them as de facto the opposite sex, and to allow them to access spaces reserved for the opposite sex. So it’s gone quite a bit beyond personality. In fact, we don’t know how many trans-identifying males with a “woman gender identity” only arrived at that due to sexual fetishes-these things aren’t being studied.
It's not just 'personality'. GI is an unfalsifiable belief, that an individual 'is not' their sex. As 'transactivism', it also seems to overlap with a broader, and contestable, political ideology, which is 'identity politics'.
As I understand it it is only personality that is more or less related to societys norms for sex. Like clothes, make up, interests and "energy"(walk and movements)
Helen clearly used wrong-sex pronouns and then told us to F Off when we corrected her. Bad move on Helen's part. Reality Enthusiast put it well on X: "One can't fight the destruction of this anti-human, techno-animist cult while also participating in its rituals and using its lexicon. ... Pick a side ... "
It is genuinely impressive how well Helen argues AGAINST what is her normal position. This is an indication of someone who has reasoned their way to a position very well.
Yes. This is a really important point. This is how we *know* TRAs’ ideology is shallow and built on quicksand - they cannot speak cogently about the ‘gender critical’ views they claim to despise. It tells me they’ve spent not a fraction of a second trying to understand GCs’ view to discover whether there may be some value and truth in them.
I'm a conservative Christian, but I really love Helen and Peter, even though we have important differences regarding ultimate reality. Helen especially edifies me (maybe it's partially because of the accent)!
Thanks for tackling this subject Peter, you bring intelligence and a certain type of humour that most people don't, making your videos entertaining as well as informative.
Two very smart people. What a delight. I really want more young people to see this: not for the topic so much (though they need that too), but for the intellectual movements of the two participants. THIS is how you would discuss things if you were much smarter, better informed, more regularly exposed to challenge, more mature, more curious, more dispassionate.
This is kryptonite to the Woke. Because its entertaining it will gradually spread into the recesses of the T Queer gang. It's goung to fry their minds.
what a refreshing break from college kids who can barely scratch the surface of this particular issue. I feel like I've finally listened to people talk about this who have thought about it as deeply as I feel like I have. The whole questioning of a person's identity and what gender is specifically is where we need to start having our conversations about this. No one talks about those things. I loved Helen's comment about it being unfalsifiable. I've never thought about it in light of that word/idea but it's exactly right.
Seems to me that 'Anybody can be wrong about anything' is the same thing as 'The mind deceives'. Win for Team Helen. 🤣 ps. Re 'Detransitioners' weren't wrong - it was just part of their gender journey.' Similar argument: 'The Manchester concert bomber wasn't wrong - it was just 'part of his religious journey.'
It really says a lot that ppl on one side of this argument refuses to engage in civil discourse and debate. What do we do as a society when this happens? I’m very curious what Peter’s opinion would be on this question.
Why is it that no one addresses the fact that 20 years ago there were only a handful of trans people and now there are thousands? How many 'kids' really do commit suicide due to trans issues without other potential causes such as depression, anxiety. learning disability, autistic symptoms, etc.? Where are those statistics?
I think it’s very difficult politically to get funding for those types of studies. I don’t know anyone who committed suicide for trans reasons so I’m very skeptical of this idea that everyone will kill themselves if we don’t affirm their chosen gender.
The trans-inclined would argue, I think, that there are more trans now because the bigotry against trans is reduced and people are more able to be their true selves. Another seemingly unfalsifiable claim.
AS more and more children transition, there is, unfortunately, more statistical evidence that transitioning promotes and increases the risk of suicide.
@@tashaax1993xanimalloverx So, if that is the case, then the 'trans' activists are arguing that their best evidence for themselves in the past is that there is no evidence? Obviously not good enough.
Excellent session. Both guests are thoughtful, rational people with whom it would be a great pleasure to have in-depth conversations. As usual, Helen shines in how well she’s thought out her position and how honest and well-explained her responses.
This is the best Spectrum Street Epistemology that I've heard. It's so refreshing to hear from people who are able and happy to reason and who also show they understand the metaphysical-ideological thinking of others.
Absolutely loved the positioning on the question of being mistaken on gender identity! I agree with both arguments and that has never happened for me since finding your channel Great episode Peter - loving all the British content 🇬🇧
Hah, every time Kaufmann got on a square and then heard Helen Joyce's reasoning, you could see him really regretting his choice. No one thinks as concisely as Helen Joyce and, just as importantly, no one can articulate a position as well as she can.
As someone who values logical reasoning, science, facts, and critical thinking... I am always of the mind that given sufficient evidence, I am willing to change my mind on something... and the thing is, Helen Joyce's arguments are simply too strong to logically disagree with... In a fair debate with the intention of reaching truth, you simply cannot fault her arguments. As such, it makes any opposing view to the things she says very weak.
Separeting gender from sex make the definition of gender either circular(undefined), absurd(dellusionnal) or extremely sexist. If we say that a women is the social construct of the female, and thats the current official definition of it, its still circular because, if we put all females in a box and create an average social construct out of it, what come out is still a female...so a women is simply a female, unless we have a sexist idea of it. Its absurd to identify as the biology of the other sex and its sexist to identify as the other sex based on their general behavior or preferences... you can be a masculine women without having to change your gender.... I think neoprouns is just a form of extrem sexism.
The guy is talking of "gender roles", which how a "woman" or a "man" are perceived and expected to act in society. But that "role" is predicated on the concept of "gender, specifically "woman" and "man", which is simply a euphemism for "human female" and "human male". We do not go around calling people "male" and "female".
I immediately was raising my eyebrows because Kaufman chooses a position based on OTHER people's views. But he's asked about *his* views, right? So why does he feel the need to somehow represent these other people's views? And why wouldn't he feel the need then to represent the people who share Helen's view? Will you ever come to the Netherlands, Peter? I would love to join you in this street epistemology and lots of people in the Netherlands speak English very well.
The fact that Helen comes from a STEM (reality based) background and Eric from political science (is it a science? Hm, I think not) becomes glaringly obvious in this very interesting dialogue. Thank you Peter. 💚
@@rosemaryalles6043 sex isn't binary, intersex people exist: Intersex people are individuals born with any of several sex characteristics including chromosome patterns, gonads, or genitals that, according to the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, "do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies There are sexually dimorphic regions of the brain too, which do appear to correlate with trans identities.
@@rosemaryalles6043 sex isn't binary, intersex people exist: Intersex people are individuals born with any of several sex characteristics including chromosome patterns, gonads, or genitals that, according to the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, "do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies There are sexually dimorphic regions of the brain too, which do appear to correlate with trans identities.
@@rosemaryalles6043 sex isn't binary, intersex people exist: Intersex people are individuals born with any of several sex characteristics including chromosome patterns, gonads, or genitals that, according to the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, "do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies There are sexually dimorphic regions of the brain too, which do appear to correlate with trans identities.
Ooooh this is fun! My favorite moment is when they stand on opposite sides and explain what their note means, they are practically proving the same point from two opposite views?! This is so fun!!
What is the "irrational objection" to child mutilation Peter? I'm all ears. Then we have Eric defending with his "i'm sure in some circumstances it's in the interest of a child to transition". Is it? Why, because you just want to ride the fence? Give an example.
the 2nd question is the same question as the 1st. the question on school informing parent. this should be taken as if the child has got hurt or some serious event at school which require the parent be properly informed. the ultimate carer, responsibility are the parent. the school has duty of care. in what logical or sensible world would you "affirm" delusions where such delusion may cause permanent harm, psychological and physical harm? this is the crazy woke/gender ideology false world. the soul/ eternal soul reasoning is fallacious. it is appeal to authority or appeal to concepts/beliefs much older than woke nonsense. the soul if anything would be not be biology but spiritual and generally that means some sort of cosmic energy and that woo woo stuff.. not possible to say one way or another, not falsifiable as dr joyce said. non arguement/reasoning. but woke of course pull in every dirty trick for the purpose of gaslighting, cause doubt and wear down integrity and patience.
It used to needle me, soon wears off. I think he thinks Islands are isolated by instead of connected by the sea. The Hungarians never had much of a navy.
The parents must be told. There is no data showing that kids who think they are gay will go on to change their minds, but there is plenty of data showing that some kids who think they are trans, are mistaken. Parents have to know what is going on at the school. If the parents become abusive, there is already a process to address that.
Peter, can you help facilitate a debate between Helen Joyce & Judith Butler? I would love to see Helen dismantle Judith's philosophy of gender, along with the history of proponents of gender identity ideology & possibly even the post-modernism upon which it's based.
The soul is not a scientific concept as it is unfalsifiable. Unfalsifiable doesn't neccessarily mean wrong, but every falsifiable theory is just more realistic, as those theories can be tested. In the future, we might be able to simulate all neurons of a human brain, and it might then even have all the characteristics of that human, but even that would not disprove the soul-theory, it would just make obvious how superfluous that concept is. Now, regardless of whether the character relies in the soul or in a software layer of the brain, the concept of gender identity can be studied. We know exactly two sexes and even intersex people fall into one of the two sexes when you look close enough. Some traits and behaviours correlate with the biological sex, and some people can be atypical in some traits and behaviours. But since the correlation of behaviours to sexes is never 100%, a certain behaviour doesn't imply a sex. Also atypical behaviour can be the result of genetics/epigenetics or the result of society, so how can we distinguish between them? Are atypical characters in the wrong body, or are they just the variation of human characters inside one sex? Evolutionary speaking, it makes sense that genes that increase the evolutionary fitness of a woman, but decrease the evolutionary fitnes of a man, would end up on the x-gonosome. A man ending up with one of those genes would then not be a woman, but just a genetical anomaly of a man. But a man ending up with dozens of those genes would just be statistically impossible. Unless the sex-defining gene (SRY) moves to the X-gonosome, then a man with XX chromosomes can exists and also have many, many genes for traits of men. However, that's not transgenderism, that's a form of intersex, and very, very, very rare. Okay, so since we know that genetically, transgenderism cannot exists, because it is incompatible with evolution, that means we are left with epigenetics. Some hormonal problem of the mother during pregnancy could have an influence on the baby and influence the development of the brain. If that was the case, and transgenderism increases massively, then it would be alarming, because it would point to environmental factors creating transgenders. Then we should not talk about transgenderism, but about hormone-active substances, influencing people. Which leads us to the last option, transgenderism is entirely a social contagient. Then society is currently pushing people to seek to associate with the other sex, because they are miserable and seeking for a solution, grabbing onto any straw given to them. Honestly, the last one is just the most realistic of them all, when you think about it, but we should definitely also investigate environmental poisoning with hormone-active substances.
I don’t even really have a handle on what an identity is outside of ego and super ego kind of old school psych. So when someone claims they have an identity, it just feels like I’ve jumped off the deep end into the river Styx in some religious text. I can only identify as myself or understand anyone identifying as a unique being (say, Joe, or Martha) I have zero idea of what any other human being’s inner reality is, so how can I even attempt to claim we share one? I don’t “identify” as a woman or female, I know my sex makes me such.
I would have asked the dude: "Would you tell the parents that their child claims to be trans at school if you, knowing the parents, were SURE that the parents will therein transition the child?
And it is also a common experience during times of life when our bodies go thru changes, such as what occurs during puberty, pregnancy, post pregnancy, mid-life physiological changes, physiological changes caused by accident or illness etc. Medical transition is not the only or even the preferred or possible treatment for the psychological condition of gender dysphoria. It is also a symptom of several other psychological conditions and personality disorders.
I'd love to see you do a version of this where you take someone who feels very neautral on an issue and see if the people playing the game can convince that person in any direction, juts to see what kinds of arguments people find most persuasive (like emotional v intellectual).
It’s a metaphysical problem. For post modernist there is no such thing as an objective reality. They believe language is what makes reality so that’s why they insist that changing the language you can change what things are.
Yes. They most certainly do use circular logic and any other obfuscating language they can weasel their way around. All for the purpose of getting more power.
i thought the whole standing on mats was cheesy but as they got into it I thought it was really cool. You really get a lot of insight as to how people think and how we can be wrong about assumptions.
Peter this format with intelligent deep thinkers seems to be more productive than the old format using random people on the street. You had to show incredible restraint with some of the answers you got in the old format.
Arithmetic is not math. lol. My daughter is a "math major," and she often humorously rejects her presumed role as a social calculator (speaking of splitting the bill).
The legendary Belissa Cohen herself?! Yes, I would love to hear Helen expound more on the concept. I know she rejects it entirely now, and I agree with her.
@@slacktoryrecords4193 I think the issue is, Boghossian himself does not want to be seen rejecting "true tran$," so he avoids hosting discussions of it when that is the real issue. Perhaps he actually believes in "true tran$" himself. He has said he uses wrong-sex pronouns for his LARPing friends--somehow those particular acts of lying to everyone in earshot (including kids) does not count as lying? He has a lot invested, I think, in appearing "cool." Boghossian clearly prefers to stick to softball, tangential questions on this issue, which is a shame, when by asking better questions he could do a lot to raise awareness about the horrendous damage being caused to individuals & society by this corporate-driven medical scandal.
I personally think it's fine to have a gender identity, as long as that defines gender as social roles, presentation etc and that in certain areas such as sports, single sex spaces etc it isn't more important than your natal sex. My issue is with the innate gender "soul" that pops up and is apparently the "real" you. That doesn't exist. But you can adopt a persona that doesn't match your natal sex, that is fine. I fear though that TRA's are only going to accept the term gender identity as meaning the latter and not my interpretation of it.
Ok, but whonly decides which personality traits do, or do not, match ones natal sex? Are personalities how we determine whether someone is a boy or girl or man or woman, rather than the material reality of their bodies?
@@tonyhoffman3309 No, it's not personalities, it's how we as a society socially and culturally express gender, so for example, pink for girls, blue for boys, dresses for girls, suits for boys, long hair for girls, short hair for boys etc etc. So it's basically just a set of stereotypes, so my opinion is that it's okay to be gender non conforming, these things are all socially constructed, they have nothing to do with our sexed bodies.
That's why language is important. Gender identity only means inner soul and implies it's more important than biology. It might be more important for the individuel that feels that their sex dosen't fit them but for the rest of society biology always has to matter more. Always. It's a fundamental safeguard. Don't use GI terminology if you're not a GI yourself.
Watch my previous interviews with these guests:
Helen Joyce: th-cam.com/video/ZG9_lcln7FU/w-d-xo.html
Eric Kaufmann: th-cam.com/video/TlzLQO6bRdM/w-d-xo.html
I tried to do dining-table epistemology when at Sunday dinner with my family.
Sadly, wasn't popular.
@drpeterboghossian when are you doing street epistemology in NYC on the trans topic? perhaps it may be helpful to start getting input from rational-thinking, non-woke people who actually suffer from gender dysphoria. I nominate myself.
In this debate a mat with 'reject the premise of the question' would have made it way easier to understand how absurd a lot of the gender ideology is.
I really wish Helen would get a TH-cam channel.
Helen spoke about burkas being sexist, but how is that much different than women being required to wear bikini tops and men not? Both fall into the same descriptions she gave, reducing lust.
Helen is just great!
She cuts through all the language gymnastics, the attempts at mysticism and layer upon layer of glittery, sparkly veil the gender cult has tried to erect.
She shows us the grim reality of what’s going on behind it all! Amazing woman. 👏 👏 👏
She shows that you can deny reality but not the consequences of denying reality. This is so true in relation to safeguarding issues . She is a credit to us all
I really admire her deeply, but in this video she finally managed to not combine various flowery prints so I could fully concentrate on the message without my eyes constantly screaming mayhem at me..
Helen, you looked amazing!
Uni colours are looking great on you. ❤
You should check out Micah Valentine - cuts straight through all the bullshit!
@@rgghjs9270will do, thanks
In any room, Helen Joyce is the adult in the room.
@aldovaneyk - No, I wouldn't say that in this case. There were definitely 3 adults in this room. Eric Kaufmann made some excellent points. And Peter did a brilliant job of framing the discussion.
@@wiseonwords I absolutely agree actually. It was more of a comment on her general demeanor, she reminds me of a stern Mom giving her kids the what's what. In pretty much every conversation. They were all fantastic though!
Yes - she makes me feel about twelve!
Agree. I also love the room. Wish I could afford to live there.
It will be interesting to see how the legal case in Australia of Tickle v Giggle turns out. Helen is one of the people that will be called i believe, not to mention Sall Grover, the CEO of Giggle is equally impressive i would say.
Helen Joyce, Kathleen Stock, Abigail Shrier, Debra Soh, Kellie JK, Miriam Grossman, Helen Pluckrose... There are so many erudite, articulate, passionate, and brave women kicking arse for all of us - brilliant WOMEN (The only kind - objective biological kind).
🙏🏼👌🏼❤️🔥
I’ll add Maya Forstater and Emma Hilton to that list!
Helen is the most concise and bright person I have heard speak on these issues. Thanks Peter.
You’re welcome!
Concise isn't a word I would use for her. She can go on and on and on and on. I am a fan, regardless. She is one of the few who listening to her ramblings is always still worth it.
@@biggregg5 are you the concise police sir? Do you alone get to determine when the speaker says enough words to move from concise to say, long winded? What a useless comment. In my opinion she is concise, is that better?
@@albeon81
I'm the idiot, snowflake police, and you just nominated yourself.
@@albeon81
What a useless reply to a comment.
Great discussion. Helen Joyce is a brilliant thinker - I highly recommend watching her interviews with Peter Boghossian and Jordan Peterson.
Agreed, the JP one is epic
JP talks too much and doesn’t know this topic as well as HJ, I’m afraid. But I would recommend listening to Helen talk with *anyone* about gender/trans stuff because she really is that good, and always says something new in each discussion.
@@slacktoryrecords4193I agree. It’s amazing how Helen Joyce can approach this from so many different angles. She has a phenomenal mind, and a gift for expressing things in an understandable way. I’m so glad she is here in this debate, together with all our other champions of the truth and sanity.
I am a simple woman - I see Helen - I click ❤
Thanks for watching!
Sono true!
Always!
Ah, but what is a woman? 😅 Kidding...
We shall see, I doubt it though.
She is so fucking compelling. Eric also made some excellent points
I am mother of 4 from Finland. I dont identfy as a woman because I am a woman. I dont know what part of me is womanhood, my personality, how I was raced, family history and so on. I dont know what part of me is womanhood because I dont know anything else. In 2024 dudes know what is womanhood. This is BS. It is xx cromosome. Jesus help me!
We need more Street Epistemology with smart people like this! Helen Joyce was a master class in logic and rhetoric. She convinced Kauffman every single time (who's also a clear, concise speaker).
P.S. Boghossian, I try to emulate you when I lead discussions in class. You're my model teacher. Neutral responses, probing questions, listens to understand. Thank you for these videos, as always.
That's very kind of you to say, thank you for your support!
the problem is they need to get someone on the complete other side. And then we can see that people on the other side cannot be convinced of their lunacy no matter how much logic you throw at them
Gender= personality
2sexes
0genders
Infinite personalities
#AdultHumanFemale
Can you not have a feminine or masculine personality?
Simplest way to put it is that the English language always has a single word describing a multi-part idea. “Gender” is simply the one word description of the term “biological sex”. Otherwise a word would exist to describe the category.
@richardfarris2227
0 seconds ago
You gotta know the activists who speak languages where all pronouns have a masculine and feminine tense go crazy over that. They’re already confused I can only imagine them trying to find their way through that linguistic fog bank.
@@richardfarris2227 not biological sex, male or female sex.
an effeminate man is still a a man@@Pantifaximile
Ms. Joyce is a sharp thinker. "I'm not into clamping down on anyone.. . . ." was the perfect logical retort.
Women with vaginas don't want to be in prison with fake Women with penis. She isn't very smart
@@jackiechilds8047 Huh? She is okay allowing opinions and disagrees with it. How did you draw this connection?
Yes, she is!
Let’s just get to the essence of this debate. Gender identity is a legal term that has no place in reality and is the stepping stone to full trans humanism. Ie human consciousness downloaded into synthetic humans. Read the Self ID laws already in place in many countries. When individuals can change the sex marker on their birth certificate every year, back and forth you know it’s got nothing to do with anything material or real. .
Helen is truly one of our great public intellectuals at the moment. Her intelligence is like a laser beam.
Helen never disappoints. ❤
Helen Joyce is a force! That she can argue from an opposing position is genuinely impressive too - shows the depth of her knowledge on the subject and her intelligence
Helen's intellect is remarkable. Eric did very well as a relative layman to the subject. Another excellent episode, Peter!
Thank you! They were both terrific!
Thank you!
Love Helen and Eric is great, too. Love this concept.
Thanks for watching!
This was a great approach to this discussion and really engaging. Some great, nuanced elements of the thinking were brought out. Thanks very much!!
Peter's obsession with Islands is hilarious😂.
It's getting a bit old now...
@@GodsCosmicBollock I'm enjoying it more now. Did you see the sly look on his face when he said you're from a different island?
@@ruthhorowitz7625 I've just heard him say it a lot!
As an Irishman, I now identify as an island.
Some say ''No man is an island'', but they are just islandphobes.
Wow, what a captivating and intelligent conversation! Loved this episode and I adore Helen Joyce! She explains her stance very thoughtfully and in a way which is easy to comprehend. We need more people like Helen.
She is a strait up G. So incredibly quick, perceptive and thought out.
I love her!!!!!!!!!
Both participants were excellent but HJ is a 👑
This was excellent, I just wish it was longer. Helen is always compelling. Ireland’s gift to this whole debate. Eric’s input was interesting too. More please, Peter.
I'm sorry, I'm on team Stella. WPATH membership fell 60% in the last two years. Stella and Sasha started up Genspect two years ago.
There are more coming!
@@AndyJarmanwhy are you dividing them onto teams?
Helen totally rocks.......she nailed it all on the first question....being a woman is OBJECTIVE. ....end of.
I still don't quite understand what the objective characteristics of a woman are. If the argument were that transitioning socially or medically does more harm than good, fine. But to deny that the concept of a woman or man is a social construct strikes me as false.
Doctor, do you think "hen" is a social construct as well or is it a biological category?
Is it an adult female member of the Gallus gallus domesticus species?
Is a woman an adult female member of the Homo sapiens species?
@@nikolaneberemed I think this topic is much more complicated than it is often made out to be. Human brains are more complicated than a hens. If you are interested in my point of view, please read further. I am very much interested in understanding yours.
Humans have a variety of characteristics that undergo sexual differentiation in the womb. Some of these characteristics are mostly related to the brain. Sexual attraction for example is a result of many factors (genetics, pre natal androgen exposure, environment).
The brain is sexually differentiated at a later time than physical characteristics such as the development of primary sex organs.
An adult human female can have same sex attraction, despite having normally developed primary sex organs.
Gender identity can in the same way differ from your outward appearance, as it develops later than physical sex differences. A change in the hormonal environment in the womb can have a massive influence on the psychological expression of sex.
To summarise my point: humans have characteristics that exist on a spectrum of male - female. The specific set of characteristics we use to identify a person with a certain sex are in my opinion arbitrary and socially constructed. We could just as well only use a person's gender identity instead of chromosomes, sex organs, etc.
@@doctordaro2112 what are the “social constructs” that make someone’s gender a woman?
@@Leon-ty6bw the criteria we use to identify an adult human female are real and not a social construct. Chromosomes actually exist, as do primary sex characteristics. My point is that using these characteristics to define someone as a woman is arbitrary.
A chair is made of parts that actually exist, such as legs, a seat, a backseat. But defining the concept of a chair is difficult. Does a chair have to have arms? No. Does it have to have a backseat? No. Is a chair without a backseat a stool? Is a stool a chair? How many legs does a chair have to have?
It is impossible to create a consistent definition without "fuzzy" edges.
All our concepts are constructed and do not exist in "nature". They are useful tools to explain the world around us but we can and should debate specific definitions and evaluate their utility.
Helen is a national treasure.
First time I've seen Eric - thoroughly enjoyed him. And Helen, as ever, was fantastic. She's got a fifth degree black belt in logic.
A while back, Jordan Peterson made a claim that a lot of progressive rage is actually existential in nature; that the individuals are, I believe his words were, "angry at God for the crime of being." He was memed on pretty hard, but I think there's some truth in it. Helen makes a tangential point at 18:58 in regard to transhood. To me, transhood has always seemed like an act of rebellion. To the individual, life is brutal and short, full of responsibilities and assumptions thrust upon us that we had no say in accepting. On top of that, you're further constrained by your own biology. You're either a man or a woman, privy to all the hormonal, biological processes attributed to one side or the other, and forced to contend with all the social norms and obligations applied to your sex. This has to be especially galling to a child who has been told they can be whatever they want to be. I suspect transhood arises (in some) as a response to these constraints, both societal and biological. It's the individual unconsciously proclaiming, "I am more than my body."
"Do trans activists use circular logic?" Do bakers use ovens? Do farmers use plows?
I think I’ve watched every single interview/speaking event that Helen Joyce has been in on YT lol
So have I. I never get tired of listening to her. And if it’s not on TH-cam, I’ll find her on a podcast, Twitter, wherever she’s speaking, I’m there! I also subscribe to her newsletter.
@@slacktoryrecords4193 she is no nonsense and I appreciate it. Sort of empowered me to not stand for the nonsense anymore! I live in the US and we don’t have anyone like her here fighting this fight. I’ll have to check out her newsletters!
The term gender identity is an intentionally confusing new way of saying personality.
Soo true!
Gender means personality...
But they’re not just stopping there, they’re saying it’s a proxy for sex and that one’s “gender identity” entitles them to expect others to see them as de facto the opposite sex, and to allow them to access spaces reserved for the opposite sex. So it’s gone quite a bit beyond personality. In fact, we don’t know how many trans-identifying males with a “woman gender identity” only arrived at that due to sexual fetishes-these things aren’t being studied.
It's not just 'personality'. GI is an unfalsifiable belief, that an individual 'is not' their sex. As 'transactivism', it also seems to overlap with a broader, and contestable, political ideology, which is 'identity politics'.
As I understand it it is only personality that is more or less related to societys norms for sex. Like clothes, make up, interests and "energy"(walk and movements)
Helen’s logic is so clear and on point. It’s refreshing to see someone be able to think clearly and articulate that well.
Helen clearly used wrong-sex pronouns and then told us to F Off when we corrected her. Bad move on Helen's part. Reality Enthusiast put it well on X: "One can't fight the destruction of this anti-human, techno-animist cult while also participating in its rituals and using its lexicon. ... Pick a side ... "
It is genuinely impressive how well Helen argues AGAINST what is her normal position.
This is an indication of someone who has reasoned their way to a position very well.
Yes. This is a really important point.
This is how we *know* TRAs’ ideology is shallow and built on quicksand - they cannot speak cogently about the ‘gender critical’ views they claim to despise.
It tells me they’ve spent not a fraction of a second trying to understand GCs’ view to discover whether there may be some value and truth in them.
And one that has heard every “counter argument” in existence.
Love Helen. She'll be on the Late Late Show within the year ...... not. The greatest Irish woman that virtually nobody in Ireland knows about.
I agree. Helen is amazing!
That's so sad.
I'm a conservative Christian, but I really love Helen and Peter, even though we have important differences regarding ultimate reality. Helen especially edifies me (maybe it's partially because of the accent)!
Thank you. I appreciate that.
I love Helen Joyce. She's lovely.
She's helping all the rest of us to push back with facts against trans craziness. She's enlightened me so so much!
Love listening to Helen's truth bombs, she knows her stuff. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for tackling this subject Peter, you bring intelligence and a certain type of humour that most people don't, making your videos entertaining as well as informative.
Thank you kindly
I could watch Helen forever
"Move!"
Peter you were a game show host in a previous life. 😁
It's possible!
He's of Magyar descent, they are very brooding and distracted, prone to hasty decisions.
Two very smart people. What a delight.
I really want more young people to see this: not for the topic so much (though they need that too), but for the intellectual movements of the two participants. THIS is how you would discuss things if you were much smarter, better informed, more regularly exposed to challenge, more mature, more curious, more dispassionate.
I have never understood this idea of 'non-binary'. Is non-binary a gender or just a political statement? Or both?
It means rejection of the view that there are only two sexes and therefore you are one or the other. It embraces places in-between.
Youth fad subculture
This is kryptonite to the Woke. Because its entertaining it will gradually spread into the recesses of the T Queer gang. It's goung to fry their minds.
what a refreshing break from college kids who can barely scratch the surface of this particular issue. I feel like I've finally listened to people talk about this who have thought about it as deeply as I feel like I have. The whole questioning of a person's identity and what gender is specifically is where we need to start having our conversations about this. No one talks about those things. I loved Helen's comment about it being unfalsifiable. I've never thought about it in light of that word/idea but it's exactly right.
Only psychopaths toss a coin by letting it fall to the floor and not catching it on the back of their hand.
Yes, I've always suspected Peter Boghossian was an axe wielding homicidal maniac. It's the eyebrows AND the coin tossing, dead giveaways.
@@AndyJarmanand the obsession with 'islands'
Seems to me that 'Anybody can be wrong about anything' is the same thing as 'The mind deceives'. Win for Team Helen. 🤣
ps. Re 'Detransitioners' weren't wrong - it was just part of their gender journey.' Similar argument: 'The Manchester concert bomber wasn't wrong - it was just 'part of his religious journey.'
THANK GOD FOR HELEN JOYCE
It really says a lot that ppl on one side of this argument refuses to engage in civil discourse and debate. What do we do as a society when this happens? I’m very curious what Peter’s opinion would be on this question.
It’s a complex question that does not lend itself to an easy answer. I recently (a little over a year ago?) gave a talk about this.
@@drpeterboghossian I’ll have to look up the talk. Hopefully it’s on your channel.
A fascinating discussion. Logic over emotion. Two extremely intelligent respondents and an extremely intelligent test designer. More please.
The title of Helen's autobiography should be ''Ruthless Logic''.
That “Fuck Off” was perfect
What? I missed that! Timestamp?
Helen Joyce is the smartest person in the room.
Why is it that no one addresses the fact that 20 years ago there were only a handful of trans people and now there are thousands? How many 'kids' really do commit suicide due to trans issues without other potential causes such as depression, anxiety. learning disability, autistic symptoms, etc.? Where are those statistics?
I think it’s very difficult politically to get funding for those types of studies. I don’t know anyone who committed suicide for trans reasons so I’m very skeptical of this idea that everyone will kill themselves if we don’t affirm their chosen gender.
The trans-inclined would argue, I think, that there are more trans now because the bigotry against trans is reduced and people are more able to be their true selves. Another seemingly unfalsifiable claim.
AS more and more children transition, there is, unfortunately, more statistical evidence that transitioning promotes and increases the risk of suicide.
People do...gets brought up a lot and the trans allies etc say there were more they just couldn't come out apparently...
@@tashaax1993xanimalloverx So, if that is the case, then the 'trans' activists are arguing that their best evidence for themselves in the past is that there is no evidence? Obviously not good enough.
Excellent session. Both guests are thoughtful, rational people with whom it would be a great pleasure to have in-depth conversations.
As usual, Helen shines in how well she’s thought out her position and how honest and well-explained her responses.
Just put Helen Joyce in charge of every damn thing. Love your content, Peter B!
She’s terrific. Thank you!
@@drpeterboghossian You are such a successful facilitator of conversations and so important in this debate. Big thanks from London, England.
This is the best Spectrum Street Epistemology that I've heard. It's so refreshing to hear from people who are able and happy to reason and who also show they understand the metaphysical-ideological thinking of others.
Agreed, this one was flawless, I did however also really enjoy the one with Konstantin and Francis from Triggernometry for similar reasons!
I will listen to it. Thanks! @@user41c
Helen is a modern day hero.
Absolutely loved the positioning on the question of being mistaken on gender identity! I agree with both arguments and that has never happened for me since finding your channel
Great episode Peter - loving all the British content 🇬🇧
6:53 a beautifully placed UK ‘fck off’ - i love Helen.
Outstanding thought exercises as always. Helen Joyce is undefeated🥂
I have a headache. Thanks Peter. (For showcasing the absurdity of this decades long mind experiment)
You’re welcome.
21:39 For the LOVE OF GOD!!! 🤯stop saying "GENDER"! unless you're talking about linguistics. It's SEX. SEX. SEX. SEX. SEX.
Helen Joyce is a genius
Hah, every time Kaufmann got on a square and then heard Helen Joyce's reasoning, you could see him really regretting his choice. No one thinks as concisely as Helen Joyce and, just as importantly, no one can articulate a position as well as she can.
As someone who values logical reasoning, science, facts, and critical thinking... I am always of the mind that given sufficient evidence, I am willing to change my mind on something... and the thing is, Helen Joyce's arguments are simply too strong to logically disagree with... In a fair debate with the intention of reaching truth, you simply cannot fault her arguments.
As such, it makes any opposing view to the things she says very weak.
Separeting gender from sex make the definition of gender either circular(undefined), absurd(dellusionnal) or extremely sexist. If we say that a women is the social construct of the female, and thats the current official definition of it, its still circular because, if we put all females in a box and create an average social construct out of it, what come out is still a female...so a women is simply a female, unless we have a sexist idea of it. Its absurd to identify as the biology of the other sex and its sexist to identify as the other sex based on their general behavior or preferences... you can be a masculine women without having to change your gender.... I think neoprouns is just a form of extrem sexism.
Helen Joyce is an absolute boss!!
Helen Joyce is an intellectual giant.
She's pure grift. There is biological basis in trans identities. Check out Micah Valentine. Or Sapolsky. Both biologists.
She's pure grift. There is biological basis in trans identities. Check out Micah Valentine. Or Sapolsky. Both biologists.
The guy is talking of "gender roles", which how a "woman" or a "man" are perceived and expected to act in society. But that "role" is predicated on the concept of "gender, specifically "woman" and "man", which is simply a euphemism for "human female" and "human male". We do not go around calling people "male" and "female".
You're a busy man Peter and all the better for us all. I always enjoy listening to Helen. I'm hoping you have one with Andrew Doyle soon.
Andrew's funny, if only Shaun Locke was still knocking about they could do carrot in a box as a warm up.
Yes I agree.
@@AndyJarman hahaha, that would be brilliant. I did wonder Sean's views on life and would have loved to see him do this.
Helen has such a brilliant sharp mind, she never seems to say anything that doesn't make sense.
I immediately was raising my eyebrows because Kaufman chooses a position based on OTHER people's views. But he's asked about *his* views, right? So why does he feel the need to somehow represent these other people's views? And why wouldn't he feel the need then to represent the people who share Helen's view?
Will you ever come to the Netherlands, Peter? I would love to join you in this street epistemology and lots of people in the Netherlands speak English very well.
I do most the cooking/cleaning for my family. I can tell you absolutely i do not see myself as a woman.
If I hadn't retired from teaching last week, I would copy that texhnique😊. I learn something every time I listen to HJ.
Erics got the corner on waffle, if you get lost near his house dont ask directions from him or you wil get loster.
"island money" 😂
He's talking about Euros, peasant Americans.
The fact that Helen comes from a STEM (reality based) background and Eric from political science (is it a science? Hm, I think not) becomes glaringly obvious in this very interesting dialogue.
Thank you Peter. 💚
Micah Valentine is a biologist who disagrees with Helen, have you seen their stuff?
@@rgghjs9270 No, I have not; do you mean disagree about the binary and dimorphic nature of sex in humans?
@@rosemaryalles6043 sex isn't binary, intersex people exist:
Intersex people are individuals born with any of several sex characteristics including chromosome patterns, gonads, or genitals that, according to the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, "do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies
There are sexually dimorphic regions of the brain too, which do appear to correlate with trans identities.
@@rosemaryalles6043 sex isn't binary, intersex people exist:
Intersex people are individuals born with any of several sex characteristics including chromosome patterns, gonads, or genitals that, according to the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, "do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies
There are sexually dimorphic regions of the brain too, which do appear to correlate with trans identities.
@@rosemaryalles6043 sex isn't binary, intersex people exist:
Intersex people are individuals born with any of several sex characteristics including chromosome patterns, gonads, or genitals that, according to the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, "do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies
There are sexually dimorphic regions of the brain too, which do appear to correlate with trans identities.
Ooooh this is fun! My favorite moment is when they stand on opposite sides and explain what their note means, they are practically proving the same point from two opposite views?! This is so fun!!
What is the "irrational objection" to child mutilation Peter?
I'm all ears.
Then we have Eric defending with his "i'm sure in some circumstances it's in the interest of a child to transition". Is it? Why, because you just want to ride the fence? Give an example.
the 2nd question is the same question as the 1st. the question on school informing parent. this should be taken as if the child has got hurt or some serious event at school which require the parent be properly informed. the ultimate carer, responsibility are the parent. the school has duty of care. in what logical or sensible world would you "affirm" delusions where such delusion may cause permanent harm, psychological and physical harm? this is the crazy woke/gender ideology false world. the soul/ eternal soul reasoning is fallacious. it is appeal to authority or appeal to concepts/beliefs much older than woke nonsense. the soul if anything would be not be biology but spiritual and generally that means some sort of cosmic energy and that woo woo stuff.. not possible to say one way or another, not falsifiable as dr joyce said. non arguement/reasoning. but woke of course pull in every dirty trick for the purpose of gaslighting, cause doubt and wear down integrity and patience.
Helen Joyce is a Champion. All power to her.
I like it with intelligent articulate guests like these. Randos on the street not so much.
You have to engage the randos though.
Boghossian: "People . . . are just liars, dishonest and manipulative" I'll take strongly agree for $1,000 Alex.
Peter is a bit obsessed with his islands. Still, i'm glad he is enjoying being here on ours.
It used to needle me, soon wears off. I think he thinks Islands are isolated by instead of connected by the sea. The Hungarians never had much of a navy.
The parents must be told. There is no data showing that kids who think they are gay will go on to change their minds, but there is plenty of data showing that some kids who think they are trans, are mistaken. Parents have to know what is going on at the school. If the parents become abusive, there is already a process to address that.
Peter, can you help facilitate a debate between Helen Joyce & Judith Butler? I would love to see Helen dismantle Judith's philosophy of gender, along with the history of proponents of gender identity ideology & possibly even the post-modernism upon which it's based.
Peter, you should come to Iceland.
Indeed. I suppose he would enjoy the... _island._
I'd love to!
The soul is not a scientific concept as it is unfalsifiable.
Unfalsifiable doesn't neccessarily mean wrong, but every falsifiable theory is just more realistic, as those theories can be tested.
In the future, we might be able to simulate all neurons of a human brain, and it might then even have all the characteristics of that human, but even that would not disprove the soul-theory, it would just make obvious how superfluous that concept is.
Now, regardless of whether the character relies in the soul or in a software layer of the brain, the concept of gender identity can be studied.
We know exactly two sexes and even intersex people fall into one of the two sexes when you look close enough.
Some traits and behaviours correlate with the biological sex, and some people can be atypical in some traits and behaviours.
But since the correlation of behaviours to sexes is never 100%, a certain behaviour doesn't imply a sex.
Also atypical behaviour can be the result of genetics/epigenetics or the result of society, so how can we distinguish between them?
Are atypical characters in the wrong body, or are they just the variation of human characters inside one sex?
Evolutionary speaking, it makes sense that genes that increase the evolutionary fitness of a woman, but decrease the evolutionary fitnes of a man, would end up on the x-gonosome.
A man ending up with one of those genes would then not be a woman, but just a genetical anomaly of a man.
But a man ending up with dozens of those genes would just be statistically impossible.
Unless the sex-defining gene (SRY) moves to the X-gonosome, then a man with XX chromosomes can exists and also have many, many genes for traits of men.
However, that's not transgenderism, that's a form of intersex, and very, very, very rare.
Okay, so since we know that genetically, transgenderism cannot exists, because it is incompatible with evolution, that means we are left with epigenetics.
Some hormonal problem of the mother during pregnancy could have an influence on the baby and influence the development of the brain.
If that was the case, and transgenderism increases massively, then it would be alarming, because it would point to environmental factors creating transgenders. Then we should not talk about transgenderism, but about hormone-active substances, influencing people.
Which leads us to the last option, transgenderism is entirely a social contagient. Then society is currently pushing people to seek to associate with the other sex, because they are miserable and seeking for a solution, grabbing onto any straw given to them.
Honestly, the last one is just the most realistic of them all, when you think about it, but we should definitely also investigate environmental poisoning with hormone-active substances.
I don’t even really have a handle on what an identity is outside of ego and super ego kind of old school psych. So when someone claims they have an identity, it just feels like I’ve jumped off the deep end into the river Styx in some religious text. I can only identify as myself or understand anyone identifying as a unique being (say, Joe, or Martha) I have zero idea of what any other human being’s inner reality is, so how can I even attempt to claim we share one? I don’t “identify” as a woman or female, I know my sex makes me such.
I would have asked the dude: "Would you tell the parents that their child claims to be trans at school if you, knowing the parents, were SURE that the parents will therein transition the child?
Oh, this is a good one.
The answer for me is yes. Gender dysphoria can become a serious issue.
And it is also a common experience during times of life when our bodies go thru changes, such as what occurs during puberty, pregnancy, post pregnancy, mid-life physiological changes, physiological changes caused by accident or illness etc. Medical transition is not the only or even the preferred or possible treatment for the psychological condition of gender dysphoria. It is also a symptom of several other psychological conditions and personality disorders.
I'd love to see you do a version of this where you take someone who feels very neautral on an issue and see if the people playing the game can convince that person in any direction, juts to see what kinds of arguments people find most persuasive (like emotional v intellectual).
It’s a metaphysical problem. For post modernist there is no such thing as an objective reality. They believe language is what makes reality so that’s why they insist that changing the language you can change what things are.
Spectrum Indoor Epistemology lacks the interesting people that interrupt to share their thoughts and sometimes yell ad hominems.
😂
Well, what street are these folks on? None really.
I am big fan of this new coin flipping technique. Adds more interest when people just wholly agree.
Logic and Trans? Hmmm? Nope it doesn't compute.
Yes. They most certainly do use circular logic and any other obfuscating language they can weasel their way around. All for the purpose of getting more power.
i thought the whole standing on mats was cheesy but as they got into it I thought it was really cool. You really get a lot of insight as to how people think and how we can be wrong about assumptions.
Peter this format with intelligent deep thinkers seems to be more productive than the old format using random people on the street. You had to show incredible restraint with some of the answers you got in the old format.
We’re using both public intellectuals and random people on the street.
@@drpeterboghossian thank you. Maybe I’ve just seen more of the videos with public intellectuals lately. Both are informative and thought provoking.
How come elites like you never discuss the cost of living crisis in the UK
Arithmetic is not math. lol. My daughter is a "math major," and she often humorously rejects her presumed role as a social calculator (speaking of splitting the bill).
I could have watched much more -- wish you have discussed the concept of "true trans."
The legendary Belissa Cohen herself?! Yes, I would love to hear Helen expound more on the concept. I know she rejects it entirely now, and I agree with her.
@@slacktoryrecords4193 I think the issue is, Boghossian himself does not want to be seen rejecting "true tran$," so he avoids hosting discussions of it when that is the real issue. Perhaps he actually believes in "true tran$" himself. He has said he uses wrong-sex pronouns for his LARPing friends--somehow those particular acts of lying to everyone in earshot (including kids) does not count as lying? He has a lot invested, I think, in appearing "cool."
Boghossian clearly prefers to stick to softball, tangential questions on this issue, which is a shame, when by asking better questions he could do a lot to raise awareness about the horrendous damage being caused to individuals & society by this corporate-driven medical scandal.
I personally think it's fine to have a gender identity, as long as that defines gender as social roles, presentation etc and that in certain areas such as sports, single sex spaces etc it isn't more important than your natal sex. My issue is with the innate gender "soul" that pops up and is apparently the "real" you. That doesn't exist. But you can adopt a persona that doesn't match your natal sex, that is fine. I fear though that TRA's are only going to accept the term gender identity as meaning the latter and not my interpretation of it.
Ok, but whonly decides which personality traits do, or do not, match ones natal sex? Are personalities how we determine whether someone is a boy or girl or man or woman, rather than the material reality of their bodies?
@@tonyhoffman3309 No, it's not personalities, it's how we as a society socially and culturally express gender, so for example, pink for girls, blue for boys, dresses for girls, suits for boys, long hair for girls, short hair for boys etc etc. So it's basically just a set of stereotypes, so my opinion is that it's okay to be gender non conforming, these things are all socially constructed, they have nothing to do with our sexed bodies.
That's why language is important. Gender identity only means inner soul and implies it's more important than biology. It might be more important for the individuel that feels that their sex dosen't fit them but for the rest of society biology always has to matter more. Always. It's a fundamental safeguard.
Don't use GI terminology if you're not a GI yourself.