Are They Born This Way? | Spectrum Street Epistemology at Skeptic Conference in Santa Barbara, CA
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ค. 2024
- Two American women and an Australian man participate in a Spectrum Street Epistemology exercise after the Skeptic Conference in Santa Barbara, CA. Peter engages the group in various claims about sex and gender, including whether children can consent to sex “interventions” and whether gay or trans people are born that way. Much of the discussion revolved around the age at which certain surgical procedures would be appropriate; the group also discussed these issues in relation to moral judgment.
Chapters
0:00 Intro
1:20 Claims about children and puberty blockers
10:42 Claims about being “born this way”
12:00 Rapidfire claims about sexuality and gender issues
14:50 Claim about moral judgment
18:15 Claims about trans issues
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Catch up on some more Spectrum Street Epistemology videos here: th-cam.com/play/PLYNjnJFU-62t25_8aD9loEqZL9J4p-82p.html
Peter,hopefully you can get some born again Holy Spirit filled people on this program 😊
11:04
Fascinating shift in agreeability from previous question
12:22
Good, nuanced observation & response
14:24
These participants views align with mine on those series of questions regarding genetics vs social being main motivator in feelings for gay and trans.
14:40
Peter, Great question which should be used moe frequently in these S.E. exercises....... it could weed out the secret Wokeness residing deep within some people 👍 👍 👍
No. The answer is NO. It's not up to anyone's parents to decide which parts of their body can be "removed". The level of abuse in this is incomprehensible.
I'd love the ask them, "If the parents decide that they've found the right 35 year old man to marry their 12 year old daughter to, and have sex with, is that okay?"
He's rich and can give her a good life. Isn't it the parents' choice, after all?
That's an insane and real practice in some places.
yes it is - until they are an adult.
hmmm. cant work out if you agree that parents should be there to safeguard the kids - or if you agree that some parents can consent to removing breasts of kids 🤔🤣
@@Odesai1 me too 😆
@@Odesai1I'm assuming he means that it is morally wrong to mutilate children, no matter if the parents or child gives consent.
In my personal opinion, now that we know that the vast majority of people with gender dysphoria as a child turn out to be gay or have autism, it is simply best no harm practice to not mutilate their body with irreversible damage.
The lunacy has to stop.
It will, but only after much MISERY within society. 😢
@@JagadguruSvamiVegananda I hate to admit it but it seems to me only the traditional conservatives can put this lunacy to a halt, because most liberals are too tolerant and splintered to give any meaningful opposition. Regression is far from ideal but I guess it is a little better than the "progress" the west had undergone in these past 5-10 years.
@@excalibro8365
Respected British anthropology professor, Dr. Edward Dutton, has demonstrated that “LEFTISM” is due to genetic mutations, caused by poor breeding strategies.
🤡
To put it simply, in recent decades, those persons who exhibit leftist traits such as egalitarianism, feminism, gynocentrism, socialism, multiculturalism, transvestism, homosexuality, perverse morality, and laziness, have been reproducing at rates far exceeding the previous norm, leading to an explosion of insane, narcissistic SOCIOPATHS in (mostly) Western societies.
@@excalibro8365, Respected British anthropology professor, Dr. Edward Dutton, has demonstrated that “LEFTISM” is due to genetic mutations caused by poor breeding strategies.
🤡
To put it simply, in recent decades, those persons who exhibit leftist traits such as egalitarianism, feminism, gynocentrism, socialism, multiculturalism, transvestism, homosexuality, perverse morality, and laziness, have been reproducing at rates far exceeding the previous norm, leading to an explosion of insane, narcissistic SOCIOPATHS in (mostly) Western societies.
@@excalibro8365 nothing about this ideology is in any way "progressive". It's as regressive as it gets.
Half of these people that support the breast chopping simultaneously believe the same children should not be allowed to go in a tanning bed or pierce their nose.
Or do anything to jeopardise their college transcript!!
Aka their future...
@haircutdeluxe
If you are convinced gender dysforia is a real issue and the future of the child might depend on the right chichurgical treatment, then that is not an unsensible stance per se.
@@Mesamedusa treating a psychological condition with the cosmetic use of medical and surgical procedures which result in sterility and lifelong medical care is like treating a software problem with a hardware fix, which destroys both over time.
@@Gingerblaze
And you might be surprised I tend to agree with that. And trans women probably don't belong in women sports etc. ...
But... I have seen examples that seem to point to the opposite, I don't know if a general rule applies, this is a complicated debate and I am no medical expert.
So I try to maintain an open mind and stay away from the moral highground. And certainly not be scornfull, as many are in the comments.
If they understood something about the purpose of these kinds of interviews, they would take another attitude.
As a lifelong lefty it embarrasses me that people I assumed were highly intelligent could be so thoroughly taken in. This issue has opened my eyes in SO many ways. I better understand how bad things happened in the past.
I am glad to hear it!
I wish you would give some examples of what is too far for you now.
Same here
This phenomena is actually far, far past what I thought would have been achievable. If you had told me 10 or 15 years ago that people could be propagandized into vehemently supporting their own childrens' sexual mutilation, I'd have said that's one thing that would never happen.
People are phonies. Big fat phonies
This activity might be better done individually. I really felt these participants were influenced by one another the longer they played and became more familiar with each other. There’s something innate in most humans to want to fit in if they sense some commonality. It was evident with these three.
In the trans debate, the taller lady said, 'Well people are gay' . . .
What has that got to do with the Trans issue? People who are gay aren't requesting surgery to change themselves!
I wish Peter had asked her that.
Exactly. She doesn’t even understand the ideology she’s trying to push
Unfortunately, many people who are gay and in homophobic environments often come to believe they must be the opposite sex.
It's so frustrating that normal gay people are lumped in with this ideology. Genderism has nothing to do with sexuality. Being gay does not require any surgeries or cross sex hormones, name changes, controlling others language about you, forcing yourself into places you don't belong, denial of reality, it doesn't require any action at all. And it requires no validation/believing from others. Being gay just requires a person to exist and experience attraction exclusively to the same sex. And gay people won widespread tolerance in the West by assimilating and showing people that we just want to live normal lives and do normal things just like straight people. But the huge push of gender ideology and queer theory is all about pushing the boundaries and rejecting normalcy at all costs.
She wasn't saying it was the same thing! She was using it as an example of certain ways of thinking being innate, and that being innate, it is not a choice they have made. THAT was the point.
lol "if there were mental health issues" doesn't see the irony there
@@dafunkmonster tbh it reminds me of the anorexia/bulimia "craze" during the late 90s. All the girls are into it. Strange how it looks like social contagion. It doesn't even need a comorbidity.
@@dafunkmonsterdepression and anxiety alone do not cause bodily dissociation to the degree of wanting to have body parts removed. Borderline and antisocial personality disorders do though.
@dafunkmonster
It's social contagion
@@katieandnick4113 True, unless you get to a doctor and they tell you it's because you have dysphoria. All your mental issues can be explained by that and we have a miracle cure, just go spend and hour with the surgeon.
It would take years to treat the underlying causes.
Should have asked if parents should be able to give concent for a doctor to amputate a childs limb when not medically necessary
A penis is not a vital body part like a limb is. It's a silly comparison. I've been doing fine without my penis for the past two years, and I'm glad I had that cycoplean demon removed. Granted I'm 49 years old, so the situation is slightly different for me, but that doesn't necessarily mean my opinion is invalid. Hell, I would support intra-gestational bottom surgery (if it were even possible, and if the fetus' consent could hypothetically be given).
@@mmhmm9271If you want your penis gone as a 47 yr old man and am willing to pay for it, go for it.
I don’t get what that has with tax payers/insurance paying for self-mutilation of children.
@@mmhmm9271a limb isn't vital and that is ablelist of you to assign that
@@notmyrealpseudonym6702 lmao I don't remember writing this, but I was 100% trolling. Wtf
"Its not her right to stop them or encourage them"
Ok so you want your children to raise themselves... i guess they should pick their own diet and their own bedtime too.
Exactly! Adopts abdicating all responsibility, failing to give kids boundaries and leaving kids to bring themselves up. Absolutely idiotic!
💯 adults refusing to adult, leaving kids to bring themselves up. Kids actually crave and thrive when they are given boundaries. When did adults stop knowing that?
Their parents wouldn't let them, because they don't want them to, which proves the child transitioning is a fad of terrible parents.
@@lco7080Yes, the world is a scary place when you, as a child, have to make adult decisions.
@@lco7080 kids need boundaries. Boundaries help them to thrive, not this nonsense. You're right, idiotic is the word.
Gay and trans are COMPLETELY different things.
Peter, when talking about trans, PLEASE DEFINE TRANS. Participants and viewers need to know that it ranges from people who say "i am trans" full stop, through to people who cut body parts off. They also need to know that none of these people have changed sex
Agreed, I would struggle to know where to stand on many of these questions about trans because the term is not being defined. E.g. What does it mean when you say trans can/should be fixed? I might say yes, I might say no depending on the meaning of the word “trans” as it is being used in that sentence. We need to know what we’re all talking about otherwise we just talk past each other.
@@Pneumanon I think it says everything that no one made the distinction between gender dysphoria, social contagion and Autogynephilia, when this question was asked.
Any person well informed would have started the definition themselves, to explain their answer.
If people don‘t know there are differences, what level of understanding will a mere definition bring them?
And the lack of clarity adds to the misinformation around the topic, thinking trans means "the good kind" or whatever and not the stats of how many opportunists there are, how many detransitioners etc
@@lynnm6413Well working toward a shared definition is likely to bring these different assumptions out into the discussion to be examined.
I agree with you on the three distinctions you made- the underlying motivations behind transition change the implications of the discussion quite a lot.
There is no such thing as 'trans'
What ever happened to learning to love your body, flaws and all? Learning to love yourself is a journey we all need to have. We all do not have money to create the ideal body we think we should have. I think it is typical as a young person to look at your own body and seeing flaws and imperfections and it is a seasoned mind to see those flaws and appreciate them.
I can agree with appreciate our bodies and be grateful for our bodies , but not necessarily “ love” our bodies.
The left are all about self-hate. White leftists hate all white people. Black leftists are all white supremacists. LGBT all hate themselves.
And a huuuuge part of that is puberty... Which shouldn't be optional
You're ignorant. Mental disorders are treated different ways depending on the type of disorder it is. For some disorders, you cannot simply "choose to love your body." That's not going to make your brain not broken.
NO!! Why? Any human being who wants to amputate a perfectly healthy body part is INSANE and needs a psychologist, not a butcher.
Unfortunately now the psychologists are trained to "affirm" and refer mentally vulnerable people and children to the surgeons.
Sadly the psychologists are afraid to speak up. Personally, I think if this contunues to go on, a psychologist should have to sign off on the child hormones and surgery for a patient under 25. The psych and surgeon should risk their license and possibly jail time if a detransitioning occurs in their patients lifetime. We'll see how confident they are then.
@@sully_n_dubs I am a rational left wing psychologist and i am against affirmation. A young mind is too easily molded and influenced. I try to help them getting used to their body they are born with. It takes many sessions to find the cause for their wish to transition. The human mind wants to go the easy way all the time. It saves energy. If the society around you affirms you in your believe to transition your mind automatically pushes you in this direction even more. Only a small percentage of my clients transition in the end. Most of them just discover that they are gay or lesbian. And some become crossdresser which is socially not accepted but harmless in comparison to a gender transition. And those who stll persist on beeing born in the wrong body i send to another colleague who helps them with their transition. And thats fine too. I don't judge them because they are really those who are born in the wrong body. But its a very very small percentage.
@@Marcus_Berger1701 That's encouraging. Just from what i have read, it just seems so cruel that a girl for instance that likes to rough it up with the boys is suggested with the current teaching in school and online that they could be born in the wrong body. That this is a normative condition. I see kids playing in the neighborhood and hope that they don't entertain this thinking. Maybe they are just a masculine girl (I grew up with some that played hockey with the boys and 20 years later were straight, beautiful, awesome people. Just not stereotypical. Then some that ended up lesbian, but same thing, just beautiful, awesome people. I can't imagine the torment that a kid would be put through, if led to believe that they could be born in the wrong body, as they are trying to figure out why they are different. I understand that these people do exist but it seems like the current teaching could be creating more people to consider this thinking.
What is your opinion of Jamie Reed's testimony about what was happening in St. Louis and the countries of England and Sweden in how they are recently approached this practice?
In many places its illegal to do anything good but affirm
No one is born in the wrong body.
Dude for real!!!
can you be moved to the wrong body? If I put your brain in the body of a dog, would the brain be in the wrong body?
How do you manage to be so confident yet so ignorant?
@@PedroTricking yep!
Transgender.....I can't accept who I am, but demand that you accept who I'm not.
That about covers it.
Men do not have vaginas
Women do not have penises
Non binary is a complete joke
Transitioning children is a profound child abuse.
Lying about biology to children is against their human rights to an education.
Coercive control of speech is not part of a democratic society
Changes made for less than one percent by excluding the 99 percent is not inclusion.
Rights provided cannot be made by rights removed.
We're not adults before 25 at least.
Speak for yourself. I was raising 2 kids at 25
@@keycuzI've seen 17 years olds do that. Were they an adult, too?
@@antalpoti 2 kids at 17, that's a rape victim.
@@keycuz or a gipsy. They tend to do this. 4-5 kids by mid 20s, not uncommon. But that's not the point. The point is that raising 2 kids doesn't make you an adult.
@@antalpoti so what makes you an adult then. Your 25th birthday and hey presto
This is a good demonstration of how people generally have what seem like reasonable stand points on issues that at surface level appear relatively innocuous, but are at an intricate level profoundly damaging to people and to society.
For example, the personal testimony of trans widows (women who's husband's decided to take on a female persona and role in the relationship) and learning about the trauma they and the children of these men suffer, probably would have drastically altered their answers to that particular question.
These are good people who've been somewhat persuaded that a person can be born into the wrong body, or genuinely operate as the opposite sex in some way.
Unfortunately people who believe in absurdities can be lead to condoning or commiting atrocities. Such as chemically stunting healthy child development or removing the healthy breasts of a vulnerable teenage girls.
Dark times indeed. I hope the exposure of corruption, mal practice, lies and criminality of WPATH makes a difference in our battle against this insanity.
Great point, I felt she often chose politeness and kindness and didn’t really have the big picture. I hope she leaves this session and begins to read bit more and maybe start watching a few talks from Helen Joyce.
That is an interesting take, I have considered myself pretty progressive for most of my adult life and still do. It seems like society has gone too far with these issues though.
I think it is like a pendulum and we are at the brink of starting to go back the other way. The extremes at the other end are not something I am looking forward to either though.
@tylerpestell I truly hope the tide is finally turning
@@dafunkmonster I tend to rarely go with the “strongly” answers as I know there is always a potential for me being wrong. I feel like if you get stuck in a rigid mindset of absolutes, you are less willing to listen to new data and evidence that contradicts your preconceived notions. This is just my take on it.
Adults should not be aided in their desire to mutilate themselves, either. It's cruel and barbaric.
Totally agree. And doctors shouldn`t be allowed to perform those extreme body modifications. What happend to `do no harm`?
@@oliverhug3surgeons are an odd breed, they have to be I guess and many live to cut. They'd implant wings on ppls backs if you let them.
The point is that they are adults and able to consent to that act. Doesn’t make any statement about whether it’s a smart or dumb decision.
@@inpugnaveritaas The point is that nobody is able to consent to that act. The desire to harm oneself, especially in such a brutal, irreversible way, is evidence that a person is not thinking rationally and not in their right mind.
We don't gouge the eyes out of people who have a sick fascination with being blind. This is no different.
@@utah_koidragon7117 that’s not accurate. You don’t have the right to decide for other people. Even the decision as an adult don’t make the person change sex, but that is for the adult to live with the regret from their own act. Children, simply cannot consent to such intervention.
Hey Peter 💙 I love this new style of clearly having your participants guess what others are thinking. And a big thanks to everyone who ever participated 🙌
Someone thinking their body is wrong & their brain is right about that, ISN'T a mental health issue?
Of course. Thought stems from the brain, the brain apart of the body. It’s all one. If your thoughts are rejecting your body then it’s clearly an inability to love yourself and thus needs to be “fixed” to love themselves
I think a better question would be if it's ethically possible for doctors to agree to mutilate healthy body parts from a minor.
Not only a minor.
Any one who pauses when asked that question and then does not say an emphatic NO is, in my opinion, condoning child abuse/mutilation.
I almost couldn‘t finish the video, I got so mad… what makes it worse, she seemed well adjusted, no blue hair or septum piercing…ye completely off her meds on that question!
@@lynnm6413 statistically its more likely she is ON meds. One out if three adult women are.
@@Gingerblaze that‘s why I said she is off her meds…means it is something irregular..right?
Reading comprehension F
This new format is amazing! Trying to guess why a person holds a position OR providing a strong argument for anothers position unlocks an uncommonly used form of empathy.
All those thousands of poor teenagers living without modified bodies just ten years ago. We have made such medical strides haven't we.
Welcome to the dark ages.
When you asked if an 11, or 12 year old could consent to a double mastectomy, I was staggered to see her hesitate.
Most girls that age probably can't spell the word correctly.
I don’t think she actually has reasoned out why she holds e opinion she does, which is why she seems to be unsure and thinking things through on the fly.
Peter, I really appreciate how you stepped up you ethical questions. Now its time to use these more complex ones, on different demographics. Thanks a million again for doing this.
They either have logically inconsistent beliefs, or they're partially selecting their positions based on what they think others expect of them.
They have logical inconsistent beliefs
I noticed that especially with the tall lady. It seems like she knows ponytail lady from before and just wants to disagree with any point she makes. I think that is a very interesting part of Epistemology. Who do we not want to be standing with in our opinions.
"They have" you mean humans. It doesn't matter left or right. Everyone is illogical unless they specifically work on getting rid of these human behaviors and actively work on building a proper framework. But 99% of people do not do this. I'd bet my whole life's savings you are the same.
Both women were comfortable with a man in their locker room - that surprised me
Very surprising. I'm not comfortable with a man in my locker room.
They're lying. "Trans" is a threat-narrative. "Go along with it, say what we demand you say, else be called a terrible person and possibly have your life destroyed." So people are lying because they are under threat. (And they are cowards.)
I was only a little surprised. But I felt it deserved an important follow up question. “ I would be comfortable with my 12 year old daughter in a shower stall/locker room with a trans identified intact male, or any male for that matter.“ Go!
I also didn’t quite believe them. It felt not well thought out or honest. For example, I am pretty chill about nudity and swimming nude with males and females at a beach is no biggie for me. So one would think what’s the difference to be in a change room with men. But it is a very different dynamic and I would feel affronted to have men in a woman’s protected space. Absolutely never!
@@gabychats A beach is a big open space not separated by sex, changing rooms are small walled spaces separated by sex. That's the difference.
It's a function of them lying.
Love the way the “agreeing” spaces are laid out. Encourages dialogue and humanizes those that disagree. “U” layout > “line” layout
Being gay is about ACTIONS. Being "trans" is pretending to KNOW what being the OTHER sex FEELS like.
I think of it as not being in control of who you love vs having total control in how you present yourself. I don't judge someone for the former. I do for the latter.
@@williamsaling9648 I don't have issues with any of these persons individually (generally speaking), my main issue is governments lying about "sex change" and "gender". There should be no such thing as FAKE SEX government id. Federal and provincial vital statistics should NOT replace SEX with "gender". "gender" is no more than a faith, a religion, as as such, belongs alongside religious questions on forms (if religion is even present on government forms, where it generally isn't).
It makes me sad that many of those girls identifying as trans in their teens are actually gay and might otherwise know that if they weren’t groomed and encouraged to identify as trans.
If you're gay, why would you remove parts of the body other gay people find attractive?
@@dafunkmonsteror for anyone else to collude in your fantasy life. Gay men and lesbians just wanted to do their own thing, not force others to capitulate or face mob wrath imo
I love the ‘guess what they wrote’ part of this conversation. It will help people understand each position and communicate. I don’t agree with transing kids, but I like the concept of opposite sides trying to make understand or see their perspective.
I cannot understand how your videos don't have a million views. I absolutely love your content.
TH-cam suppressing views is a possibility
No one should be allowed to cut off healthy body parts. Even if they are an adult.
It’s insane that this is even a question. How does this question poll with the general public?
I’ve watched several of these “street epistemology” videos, and (imho) it’s terrific. This way of approaching an issue takes most of the heat out of each individual’s opinions, which lets people actually *talk* to each other.
Without rational dialogue, I’m not sure how minds can be changed.
Well done.
I love them too, absolutely fascinating to watch people disarmed by not being afraid to change their mind. Even in camera! ❤
On*
People have become cowards even when it comes to defending their children.
Interesting to see the confusion people have on this issue.
I don't know if I'll ever understand how people think "being born in the wrong body" is a real thing. These are terribly vulnerable people, and we're affirming their delusions.
The moral societal restraints are quickly eroding
Yeah, we can't keep slaves or sell our daughters. OTOH it's unacceptable to kill Gays.
Which is moral progress?
Don’t claim that Christianity is a positive moral influence, it’s clearly not.
The moral restraints that women have are taught to them by men, or not taught to them at all.
@@logangodofcandy you are rebellious,all rights and instructions are given to us by GOD,but fools despise wisdom and instructions
@@logangodofcandy Thats just not true.
The structure of this debate is really cool and I appreciate it. Trying to think from the other person’s point of view-especially trying to come up with the best opposing argument to your own. Super awesome, takes next-level thinking rather than just talking at each other.
makes me laugh when some people in the past wanted to sabbotage the whole debate experiment from being able to take place like just openly discussing a subject was taboo in itself.
That "17 is close enough to being an adult" excuse is very similar to what men who get caught sleeping with underage girls would say. Just sayin...
Really enjoying the subtle changes you made to the activity with the white boards when participants are on opposite sides of a claim. Seems to force the extremists to empathize more with the other participants. More thoughtful discussions and eases the tensions from earlier videos
This video was very well done, and it was quite interesting to hear the contrasting viewpoints. I especially enjoyed when they had to guess why the other person had an opposing opinion. And appreciated that they remained civil. 😬
Peter how do you keep a straight face when speaking to these people?
This was a really good one! Excellent work as always.
Thank you
As a parent you don’t have the right to sterilize your kids even if they ask for it
Why did she correlate being gay with self mutilation, she is confusing being gay with trans, it's 2 completely different topics
If an anorexic genuinely believes they are overweight and want to have their stomach stapled, should a doctor affirm their belief?
Yeah these ppl are CONSTANTLY applying double standard and double thinking...
"I was born a boy but I think I am a girl"...perfectly fine, you clearly have a gendered soul inside that is incongruent with your physical body...go with it!
"I am super-thin almost a skeleton, but I think I am obese"...OH NO, something must be wrong in your head, we need to apply immediate psychological therapy!
I LOVE THIS FORMAT!! Please do more like this!
I see one very very bad mother in the mix here
Absolutely. It's sickening.
That was awesome, thanks Peter!
14-year-old: “hey mom can I get a face tattoo?”
Mother: “absolutely not! “
14 year old: “I think I might be a boy because I saw a TikTok video, can I get a double mastectomy? “
Mother: “of course you can you’re your own person“.
This is generational madness.
Person in yellow might legit me crazy
All these weirdos who think children can consent to mutilation are legit crazy
@@slimerone it’s odd how accepting it’s become. You shouldn’t have to think about whether or not a 12 year old can consent to changing their DNA essentially
This is fascinating. At no point was science mentioned, and what we know about the human brain, which isn't fully developed until the mid to late 20s. I wonder why people think their opinion supersedes what science has shown us. It leads me to believe that people don't know what science's function is. It's a humble practice at its root. Trust the scores of brain studies that reiterate it.
Great work.
30 seconds in and Peter has already mentioned The Island 😅
Anyone who thinks anyone in their teens years can decide this is insane. Do they not remember how they were at that age?
It is wild that people, knowing the kind of insane things parents do and have done to their own children, would think that a parent can, in principle, consent to something like this in lieu of their child. People try to compare this to a parent allowing a life-saving heart surgery or something as if these are even in the same ethical universe. The only reason anyone thinks transgender surgeries are “life and death” is because of the looming (and systemically employed) threat of suicide. So the procedure is not a response to an imminent health problem (like a heart defect or tumour etc.), it’s a gambit against a potential future threat of suicide. In other words, the entire argument for minor gender surgeries is an emotional blackmail. It’s not medical.
People are also assuming that all parents are good people. SINCE WHEN?
@@awomanperiod.9507
Many many wild assumptions. In fact the entire edifice of trans ideology is just a heap of assumptions upon a foundation of lies.
@@awomanperiod.9507 Since bad parents (putting their kids life in danger), get their kids removed from their authority.
@@ginabean9434 Well, that's far from the truth.
This is like saying 17 YO:
1. Can decide to have sex with someone in their 30's.
2. Drink/do drugs
3. Enter into a legal binding contract
4. Get married
5. Get a tattoo
6. Gamble.
Think about it folks.
Hard wired feelings doesn't equate right, especially as a minor.
What a great group of players! They put a lot of thought into it, and were open to changing their minds.
i felt they were being dishonest with themselves
These conversations are super interesting, and I love the questions about their place and people moving after being questioned and rethinking. I'm curious how held back some of these answers are because their faces are being show and they're worried about ramifications of their answers socially.
It's always "should include their parents" until the parents say no. Then the state takes them from you.
it is insane that this is the issue with which the entire english speaking world is now hung up on
@drpeterboghossian you should have the claim up above as people move to their positions!
People regret tattoos but someone won't regret chopping body parts off?? Ffs
I dont understand how people can entertain any question on if a child can consent. It doesn't matter what it is is, under the age of 18 no you cannot. I dont even need to hear the full question, as soon as you say consent and under 18 in the same sentence, the answer will always be no.
What about birth control?
the born trans thing was telling at least. i had a guy try to tell me it was determined in the womb due to hormones, i asked him if it was hormone exposure in the womb which was also responsible for post regret detransitions , i never got an answer
Thank you Peter for these street epistemology episodes. I miss the days of civil discussion in the long form. Cable news is unwatchable because it's like 7 year olds fight. These are articulate, thoughtful people put in a position where they can voice their opinions completely and without being shouted down.
The lady who was in favour says she would change her mind if there was mental health issues. As if dysphoria isnt? Ffs.
01:40 The only way that someone could know that they're in the "wrong" body is if they had previous experience of another body in order to verify that they don't feel uncomfortable in every body. But you can't even change bodies. You can only make superficial changes.
Many 17 year olds have not even experienced the pleasure that a natural healthy fully intact body can bring. So let’s not let them chop bits off because of mental anxiety that is a normal part of adolescence.
The question at ~19 min about the change rooms....
An additional question: Would you be comfortable for your minor child to be in a change room with an intact/ completed bottom surgery person?
These people seem to be virtue signalling. It is highly unlikely that they would be actually comfortable in that situation, but are willing to force themselves to appear to be so as not to suffer social castigation.
yes they were lying to themselves, i felt that
This is mechanism is brillant. It really forces people to get into eachother’s minds
So how do we go about this? I have sent email after email to my Conservative MP and to the appropriate Federal Ministers on various issues and all I got back is crickets. I am always respectful in my correspondence. I will be voting Conservative for the first time in my life but my MP has been silent too unless I directly mention my displeasure with PM Fancy Socks.
Nobody should be allowed to get a masectomy unless it had to do with cancer.
I didn’t make good decisions until I was about 30. I was very intentionally counter cultural due to some childhood trauma that I’ve now mostly healed from, and I now realize how unhealthy and misguided my decisions/intentions were. I’m VERY glad this cultural insistence of reassignment to young people was not around when I was a teen.
I really enjoy this format of content, and I have respect for everyone who participated. I did find it rather surprising or even a little jarring that one of the participants said that age wasn't a factor for her on whether it was okay for them to get a double masectomy. Is she saying that if the question was "Can a four year old consent to a permanent sex change operation" her position wouldn't change? I don't see how it's possible for age to not be important in this.
This should be a mandatory test to have children.
I cant believe everyone strongly agreed that they would feel comfortable in a locker room with someone of the opposite sex. There wasnt even a specification that they were trans, just that they were intact. How would any woman be totally OK with some random straight guy in their changing room? That's absurd to me
I love this content. While I don’t necessarily agree or disagree with their views. I really appreciate the respectful way they were questioned and got to examine and challenge their views.
“If there was mental health issues” 😂 funniest comment.
Doctors should do no harm. If I identify as someone with no arms and I have 2 healthy working arms no doctor should be allowed to remove my arms. Therapy should be the only option.
I live with kids (elementary to college age). I sometimes think these people have never been around them if they think that they have the maturity to make life altering decisions.
For men, we become adults after weve broken a heart, had our heart broken, punched another guy in the face and been punched in the face. Cheers!
So before puberty?
Why is a surgery even a consideration? Seems extremely drastic to me.
In CA, a woman cannot get a tubal ligation regardless of how many kids she has before the age of 25. Can you imagine if you're 24 with four kids and done?
Sorry!
i would definitely amputate my leg for a billion dollars. Just imagine the kind of prosthetic you could get for... 100 million
You could just dedicate your life to business and make 100 million dollars and keep all of your limbs
Consent means “informed consent” a prepubescent child cannot possibly understand what an adult male or female feels like.
Do another of these asking "can you believe we're arguing about this?"
The more drastic the action the higher the burden of proof is needed to justify it.
This was an extraordinary episode! Great participants with varying ideas and brilliant questions. One thing, Peter: drop this bizarre obsession with calling the UK and Australia islands, please.
What a beautiful place.
An awful lot of logical disconnection happening amongst them...
If they can't buy alcohol then they can't apply for self mutilation, make that the rule
If a child asked her parents to remove her arm cause she wanted to only have one arm, would that be treated with the same gravitas?
good point .. of course the answer would be an emphatic no.
Peter, is there a reason you never ask people to actually define what they mean or what they’re thinking of when you say “trans?”
I feel like it was prudent to ask the one lady what her evidence base is for believing that trans is hardwired, and that would involve defining it.
Dr. Venkman is doing good work here
Gay is who you love, cant blame anyone for that. Trans is how you choose to present yourself.
One is a sexual orientation. The other is a psychological condition.
Do you think it is possible for anyone to enter into same sex relations due to anything other than them being born gay?
@@donner101of course there is. Happens all the time. It’s not an immutable characteristic.
@@33greenleaf So are you saying that no one is ever born to be exclusively attracted to the same sex as in " born that way".
@@donner101 it’s not an immutable characteristic. There is no isolated gene. It is a preference. I’m fine with someone having that preference, as long as they don’t impose on others that don’t share that preference.
If these two women are comfortable with men in their locker rooms why do they go into female locker rooms.