A polite reminder: Every measurement taken can be verified by anyone who feels the need, simply by following the same procedures. Using the 240p Test Suite's MANUAL lag test is NOT a measurement though - That's basically a test of your reflexes. Also, listing a bunch of claims without measurements is just spreading misinformation; This video is a culmination of RESEARCH and the opinions I state are based off hard measurements, not guesses.
Bob it's funny that you say that this video ins't going t be some elitist perspective. If anything Adam Koralik is the biggest Elitist in the retro gaming community.
I like how much effort you put in to nailing down the facts and making sure you're not guessing or going with your gut. I've found people who either have one of these, or who don't want to buy something expensive will say it isn't laggy for them or that lag doesn't matter. Now nearly a year later when you've hammered the point home with the lag test roundup do you feel you've won the argument or is there still lots of push back?
I was using that scart to hdmi box with a Trinitron Sony CRT via its hdmi port and it worked great. Maybe it's performance is better with hdmi CRTs. Im aware that most people don't have that option since it's rare to find a CRT with hdmi.
Rex Buyeo Oh god what!? I haven’t seen the video yet but I can imagine, and that sounds horrific. *EDIT:* I was right. Dear god, who would ever do that!?
I know, it's a heinous crime. If you ever go to an anime convention, stay away from the artist alley. Some people like to sell consoles as art pieces. Some are good, most are cancer inducing.
@@Jucelegario what happened ?! people are greedy and basically dont give a fk . i was a power seller at one time this 30 day return bullshit from ebay is a joke im not walmart i hate ebay they are the worst .. cheers man
I won't say this is what ruined hyperkin brand. They have been pushing supar products for a good while now. I bought a N64 power supply from them that almost cought fire. Turns out the didn't solder anything inside the power supply, Just super glued it.
What "brand?" It essentially launched the "brand" for #Pound, LevelHike, Xtreme, etc. It's not the association that tarnishes them, it's the performance... just like it was for the old scaler boxes.
@@doomisforu "caught". Also I highly doubt they didn't solder anything, because that would make it extremely difficult for a power supply to function at all.
@@doomisforu What you're describing is a short to ground. Superglue has nothing to do with that. What you are also failing to comprehend, which was implied in my previous comment, is how superglue would likely fail to adequately connect the individual components to the circuit board. In your theoretical superglued power supply, it might have arced but barely at all and certainly wouldn't have caused much smoke. But far more likely is that it wouldn't have worked at all, since there's a high chance that one component along the line is making zero electrical connection and is therefore open. Shorts are caused by electrical connections to ground, which superglue is completely incapable of producing. You're also ignoring the fact that soldering is cheap and the company would gain absolutely nothing by cranking out a bunch of non-working power supplies instead of just doing shoddy solder work that would actually make them work. All of this to say, and to reiterate thanks to your reply above, that you have no idea how electronic circuit boards work, and are therefore an unreliable narrator.
I know you don't get as much viewership as you should, but figured i'd add that i've learned a lot from both your site and this channel in the many years I've collected. Almost all my console mods, equipment and such that now hooks up about 40 devices at once came from learning on your site and it's much appreciated!
I've always been a "why buy crap before getting the good thing? I'm just making my overall purchase more expensive" kind of guy. If I can't afford what I actually need then I wait instead of wasting money on crap.
I agree so much! I just stuck with my old childhood CRT using RGB SCART cables until I could afford a Trinitron, and now I’ve added a SCART switcher too, and I’ve got practically the perfect retro setup now.
TheXheretic728 A Bandridge brand switcher, I’ve forgotten exactly which model. My Life in Gaming did a video on switchers as it is the first Bandridge model they mentioned. It’s really good!
This is the best explanation of display lag I have ever seen. I love the high speed camera footage that shows the frames being drawn, excellent job Bob!
In some of the Facebook groups about retro gaming I frequent, people are always recommending those crappy "SCART to HDMI"-boxes. I always try and tell them to not waste their money, but they seldom listen.
Well I like many others learn this the hard way with crappy scalars and poor performance before buying an ossc. Thank you for taking the reigns and showing us how its done and WHY its done. Much appreciated.
Wow, not only a fantastic breakdown with side-by-side comparisons but also a great message at the end about treating each other in the retro game communities. You, my man, have received my permanent sub (for whatever that’s worth!)
Got to be honest, I've just recently got into the retro gaming scene and have become a PS2 collector. I fell for all this, started off buying these cheap, crappy scalers before finally realising I would have been better off investing that money elsewhere. If only I had come across your videos prior to that, would have saved me a few quid :) Great video, thanks
I am really grateful to you, Bob, for making these sorts of videos. They are very informative, and I genuinely look forward to watching each and every one of them. They seriously brighten up my day. It’s amazing to have someone who knows their tech making videos to aid those of us who don’t have a proper grasp of it. Keep up the good work, man!
Who could be angered by a good faith effort to inform consumers? I mean, except people who profit from misinformation and people who prefer to believe lies...
There are always people out there who have a problem with someone speaking about a subject in an authoritative manner. It goes hand in hand with the modern anti-science/proud to be stupid culture that's unfortunately continuing to gain traction. Basically, there are people out there who have a serious problem with anything or anyone that comes across as (or is) an authority figure. These people immediately have a "you can't tell me what to do, dad!" reaction when they're told how to properly do something.
Thank you, Bob. We've needed an authoritative video on this for a long time. As it was, people wouldn't even believe me when I tell them that the cables and the boxes were the exact same things with the exact same problems. Way too many people thought the Hyperkin, Pound, LevelHike, Xtreme, etc cables were some kind of solution, even excitedly modding them to support other consoles (obviously thinking they were getting something better than the [analog]2HDMI boxes). The defensive arguments have been truly ridiculous. There's even a local who is supposed to come see me in person expecting to prove me wrong about his modded Hyperkin cables. :) About the only thing I would change about this video is the part where it says these scalers were made for VCRs and stuff as opposed to videogames. They were actually made to be the support electronics inside a TV which digitize analog sources and connect to the LCD panel. That's why some have a HUD showing the input signal, an aspect ratio switch, etc. It's also why they have all the same problems with 240p as any other generic HDTV with analog inputs (proper 240p processing seems to be reserved for the scalers manufacturers use in their own sets instead of shopping around to other manufacturers... Sony, Samsung, etc won't share). These generic scalers literally just took the digitized output of a TV's internal scaler, intended to go to a panel, and routed it through an HDMI transmitter instead. It's decidedly worse than getting a digital TV with analog inputs because at least there's a chance it will support 240p and even if it doesn't the external scaler will double the latency. Boo!
totally agree with you was also behind it, I am sensitive to lag, I have sent back a lot of purchases. I made one for the xbox classic myself. not prefect but none was finally someone on my side who can substantiate it.
This is a great video, I personally went through ALLOT of ways to record/process old video game signals. I started playing around with it like...9 years ago and what I regret the most is wasting money on these cheap chinese scaler recommendations. They are all trash, no exception, I always got MUCH better results even from direct input into my TV or deinterlacing filters in video converter software or video editors. I wasn't ready to spend almost 300 euro on a big boy scaler like what I have now (DVDO VP30 with an upgrade) but looking back at it now I may have spent more cumulatively on these various awful scart/component to HDMI solutions
Before I got my Framemeister I had one of those "off brand" upscalers. It had automatic stretched 720P video and the colours, especially the greens were super off. I never even tried to see how much lag it actually produced because the first two were already too off putting for my own standards. Glad you made a video warning people about these pieces of crap.
Ouch, I was wondering why I was doing so crappy in the older games. I have that $30 upscaler. So in the end I will still have to buy a OSSC. Thanks for the video, helped clarify the issues I was having with my converter.
It's when the retro gaming perfectionists like me and you come into play, common folks get annoyed and for a good reason. They would agree to play "dune" on their Genesis found in attic via RF or component "bananas", sadly their TV does not accept those signals. You brag about synthetic tests while people buy clones with composite outputs from ALI that are built upon NOAC solutions, play emulators on android phones and have no problems with that. What I mean is, that SCART to HDMI is an excellent device for 99.99% of population that is not f*** in a head purist. You care for frame or two? Good for you. I myself use OSSC, but I am a retrogamer, not a guy with a once in a lifetime wish to re-enjoy few games on real hardware.
I agree. These cheap scart to HDMI scalers are horrible for gaming. I have two of them and never understood why someone would recommend them for gaming.
10:27 You gotta feel for Adam Koralik. Whenever this scaler is brought up, he’s always shit upon for praising it back when there were no other decent HDMI solutions (Even though now he doesn’t like it, and has moved to a RetroTink 5x Pro). It’s good to see Bob keeping the video’s context in mind without without blaming him for something he couldn’t have known.
Adam gets blamed because he refused to admit he was wrong for YEARS, all while people were wasting their money on this based on his video. He showed no remorse at all, blamed other people and yelled in my face during an in-person interview when I was trying to squash any beef he had with me. I will never stop trying to keep people from wasting money and I'll never stop calling people out for recommending bullshit. And I'll never understand why people defend Adam over this...
@@RetroRGB My apologies. I sincerely had no idea that Adam was as aggressive as he was towards criticism. I do not defend this kind of behavior nor the misinformation when he became fully aware that there were better solutions. As a fan of both of you guys, I sincerely hope that Adam will change his attitude, especially considering that he has been showcasing better solutions in the past few years. I did not comment with the intention of adding fuel to a fire.
@@RetroRGB I'm watching this video for the first time and thought you were arguably too kind to him in this, although that was definitely the right move on your part. The stuff he was putting forward at that time couldn't even be excused on the basis of ignorance back then. I remember doing research of my own for scaling and capture equipment in 2012-2013 and being baffled at things like this being recommended by anyone who purported to be an expert. Like, even if literally the only information you had to go off of was Fudoh's old XRGB/scaler review pages (which were the most widely shared starting points for this subject) you should have already known better.
Honestly, the scalers that I say "never use for gaming" are actually great for VCR's. My suggestion is to start with the absolute cheapest you can find on amazon and go from there. If it's not good enough, there's better options, but cost goes up exponentially; DVDO deinterlacers, domesday duplicator project, etc.
Though the upside about the SCART to HDMI. It doesn't lose it's picture when a PS1 game does the resolution change. Though the downside is the picture is moved over to the right a tiny bit which can be fixed in editing....just gotta tough it out for the OSSC Pro which they said will have a buffer mode which get's rid of the sync drop in PS1 games.
I have this, now I don't have any problem with lag, what's a bigger problem for me is that there is noise, man is there noise and flickering (a lot) The colors are also dull and not popping at all, but I can play on a flat screen but the pictures are horrible. My problem is finding a good replacement that works on both Nes and Amiga. AV and RGB 15hz
I have also seen the videos praising those scart-2-hdmi devices and at one time I was close to fork out the money for one but Luckily never did, I did however buy an OSSC and am very happy about that, it gives an almost unbelievable sharp image with no noise, worth every penny.
Great video and emphasis on a good message. Totally agree on all your points, I also don't try to be elitist about set ups. I personally saw some of the youtube reviews for the pound cables and got swept up in the hype. I received 2 in a row that were terrible with different problems! That's what made me learn about VGA, S-Video and RGB FTW.
just for curiosity i bought a cheap ''av2hdmi'' converter and wanted to see what it did. first of all it had around 110ms of lag, but worse the image on my nes was blue and purple.. no mather what game i tried. my snes had all of its colours on screen but it looked really choppy and grainy.. i gave that thing to my coworker who now uses it for his dvd player. according to him its fine for that. but its terrible for gaming.
That's good advice. I wish I could say that's me...but I'm 100% guilty of trying to cheap out, THEN finding the right solution. LOL, maybe now with the website and TH-cam channel I can help others from making that mistake :)
I think about the only good thing about the Pound/Hyperkin/LevelHike adapter is they would make for an easy way to hook up to a capture card to get decent enough game play footage.
This video is the best I've got for now...but I'll have more detailed videos on the RetroTINK2x and OSSC soon!: th-cam.com/video/DyE85OFGQpM/w-d-xo.html
Totally agree and this video needs to be spread. I've seen other youtubers say that the generic scaler is fine, good enough and much cheaper than alternatives. I started with the crap off brand upscaler on my oled TV because it was cheap, people said it was fine and I was hesitant to spend a bunch of money on tech to support older games and figured it will be good enough. Its just plain bad. Put up with it for about a year around 2015-2016. 240p games looked "acceptable" when paused but there was lag and blur during gameplay that just took away from the experience too much. Granted, the off brand upscaler can be used. I beat numerous 240p games like the original sonics, a few megaman x series games, metal slug etc using it. It can be done but if you really enjoy retro and want to play retro games regularly you gotta go with one of the good scalers recommended by Bob. It makes the games more fun and easier to play as intended. You really are just handicapping yourself in gameplay and making the entire experience more frustrating due to the lag and the video blur just makes a mess of sprite work. It made certain instances unplayable. It was near impossible to line up the slots on the slot machine in Super Mario Bros. 3 with the generic scaler. I then got a OSSC and its totally worth it if you play a descent amount of retro and led to me playing more retro since it made games perceivably easier and more fun due to not fighting lag. I did switch to CRT about 6 months ago when I found a PVM locally but the good scalers RetroRGB recommends are more than enough for the average gamer with few drawbacks. With my OSSC vs CRT, its also noticeably easier for example to line up the slot machines in SMB3 on CRT but OSSC is great none the less during 95% of the gameplay I've experienced. I only use the ossc for multiplayer with others for the bigger screen now since I enjoy playing on the CRT more but it is very acceptable as your only solution with only a few drawbacks due to LCD/OLED lag but that isn't the OSSCs fault. If you have the passion for old games, just pick up a good scaler like the OSSC, retrotink or other good scalers recently discussed by rgbretro or a consumer CRT, or if you find a PVM, for your retro games. Don't waste your money on the generic scaler, Mine sits unused in my closet now and was frustrating during the time I used it.
Great video. I do use one of these things for testing and image capture occasionally on my channel but I quickly realised they were terrible for PLAYING games. They also can overheat pretty badly, I had to heat sink the chip in mine. Keep fighting the good fight! 👍
I feel like people buy the cheap crap because it's actually in stock and available on Amazon that you can get free shipping in a couple of days. Not saying it's a worthy excuse for buying crap but I'd rather just deal with my TV's factory upscaler than deal with waiting on the rad2x or the retrotink.
darksoulzfreak I mean if you want the best looking game possible using a CRT is kinda just a downgrade. Adding scanlines also just adds clutter like in its most literal sense it is more shit on the screen that can be removed
That's a perfect point, poor scaling is an altered experience! It's not just about image quality here, variable lag makes the game play unpredictable/uneven and you simply cannot adjust to it.
Oh and that poor AES with the "internal HDMI" mod, my God that's one less AES in the world now. Case is all hacked up, good for nothing but the scrap heap. *Shakes head*
I see you know your stuff, could you help me out? I want to digitalize vhs content. The box that you are showing here is quite cheap as you said, handles rgb over scart and I want to add a hdmi capture box to get the video onto my pc. How does it handle fields as home videos are interlaced. so from 576i50 how does it convert to 1080p? does it make it 50p and each frame is representing a field (this is my guess as in the video you said the backround was jumping a bit). Also about the lag: does it get out of sync with the audio or only lags from input? I would appreciate your help, thank you!
Check out both of these videos for a ton of info on PROPER tape transfer, including why devices like this won't work for tapes (no TBC): th-cam.com/video/Br6YRkOM9jA/w-d-xo.html / th-cam.com/video/9N9mRJKk9ps/w-d-xo.html
@@RetroRGB I'm not interested in "proper" as it's waaay too expensive and we are talking about bad quality home videos here. I willing to spend a bit extra on the mentioned devices (rgb scart box and hdmi capture) over the composite to usb2. I would just like to know about how the fields are handled in such a setup. Thanks
I appreciate your doing the right thing. I purchased that scaler and good rgb to scart cables for my Genesis and in five minutes realized the scaler was blurring the image while scrolling in Phantasy Star 2. I then discontinued use. Then I RGB modded my N64 based on info on your site and the scaler works OK with 3D. I dont mind spending money to learn and appreciate the problems and challenges. I will buy the cheap new scaler you recommended can't remember its name.
Wonder what is best for upscaling PS2 to HDMI. I use component cables, but aren't compatible with all my games for streaming. Pound HDMI cable for rest. Any tips?
I found an old CRT HDTV with an HDMI. It also has build in VCR and DVD. Best of all worlds, except light gun games. The HDMI has overscan, so I use component for gaming. I do have it hooked up to my 55 inch too. I also added a capture card for streaming. CRT is still the way I like to go for retro. I'm not a snobby retro guy. I don't have the funds. I don't care about up scaling. But, I did have most of my RF consoles modded to composite. That is where the money is well spent! Great video.
I love this. There are SO many gaming enthusiasts that are big on youtube and are selfproclaimed experts on gaming that dont have the skills to recognize all the flaws of these terribad devices. The shit reviews Ive seen that dont challenge or even notice some of the flaws is just ridiculous. Thanks for this vid!
This (scart to hdmi) was the first one I bought too. Sad that at the time I thought it was good. First broke in a month, second one has a ridiculously sputtery image. At least I have a Retrotink2x now
It looks great on my tv lol. I retcon the fatguy is trying to sell us the Rad scaler and I was about to order one but this smearing now? Now I'm not buying his Rad scaler.
@@Drinkabeerandplayagameofficial I mean, I have a passthrough device (to component video) that requires another device connected to it for sound and it does look better but the audio device only outputs one channel, so I bought the "worst scaler" hdmi solution. Both the passthrough and the "worst scaler" hdmi solution from this video give me no preceivable lag on my snes, my genesis or my ps1. I do wish SOMEONE could make a reliable sound device for the scart to component output device.
@@Inv8erZlM I know the passthrough solution means no lag but can't speak about the hdmi "worst..." solution, just that I perceive no lag whatsoever through neither. That is, on a cheap 32" 720p 2017 Panasonic LED tv with no other configuration than color calibration and basic contrast.
Awesome video. I tend to stay away from those converter/upscalers and just stick to using my consoles native cables. I do use a performance VGA box for my dreamcast though but otherwise it is mostly SVideo where applicable.
Yeah I just got one of these for streaming - works ok-ish for that. So I split my RGB signal and one goes into my CRT and the other goes into one of these things then into my capture card. As I say, seems to work ok that mostly. Will upgrade when I can space the $$$
That's the PERFECT use for it! Just my opinion: If you're only using it for streaming and your favorite games are 480i (most PS2), you might not need to upgrade at all.
I'm using one kinda cheap upscaler and while the image can be better (and for recording I have to use OBS or equivalents to have the resolution image I want because is streched), I haven't feel any lag, BUT still even with that, I REALLY want to get a better upscaler once I save enough money, but if you can suggest me a cheap one for recording (and playing) games on a flat screen, what good scalers should I get for my retro consoles (NES, SNES, Genesis model 2, N64, Wii, PS2... also suggest me a good cable for the PS2 with the composite method, or the best quality image with a proper upscaler as well), excluding the expensive ones like the XRGB Mini?
KV-21FS150 owner here and I know that this CRT isn't the best out there (well, I have to say that I owned unused) but definitely is the BEST for 240p and 480i content (strange that some PS3 games looks better on it, too). I only wish it could have another Component input and/or S-Video.
Amazing! Thank you! The more we vote with our money the better products will be, even emulation wise. Your work is very important. I always look forward to your videos.
You know, I struggled for an age with shitty MD/Genesis cables on my 50" plasma. Looks crap but I got used to it. Then I took the plunge and invested in a very good RGB Scart. It's so crisp it looks emulated. Doesn't even need to be upscaled it looks so nice. Transparency effects and tricks used to simulate light and water look terrible though cus they can't use the refresh flicker to fool the eye. RGB all the way for me.
This was my first upscaler and I decided to try it out again recently only to find that the poor thing had died lol. It still powers up and even sends a signal to my HDMI splitter, but it just can't process any signals, not even the HDMI passthru. Rip crummy baby's first upscaler, you will be used a donor board going forward.
What's exactly used for splitting the video output seen in 3:20 ? I'm looking for a cheap solution to splitt video so I can play in RGB quality on a CRT while recording image with an HDMI capture card (RGB Scart distribution amplifiers seem to be rare and expensive in europe).
I got one of those Scart to HDMI converters last year. Thought it was okay at first, but I quickly noticed how it blurs moving pixels, and my unit even randomly interlaced some frames every few seconds. Completely unusable and needless to say it got shelved.
It's a lot of people's "gateway drug" into retro, which is awesome...as long as people know it's a stepping stone. Like, riding a bike with training wheels vs without - If no one ever told you how much better it is without the training wheels on, you might think riding bikes is awful.
I have that exact upscaler, and it's fine for my personal needs. Your use case of playing on a CRT while streaming / capturing was pretty much the only way I could get House of the Dead footage to my capture card while playing with the light gun. Gotta say, I'm not sensitive to lag. People talk about 1 to 3 frames and it's honestly not perceptible to me. Maybe I'm just weird? I think for under £30, it's worth a punt for a starter as you said.
Hello, I have a RetroTink and wondered if hooking up my PS1 console via S Video to it would give a much better result than the Pound cable? I'm going to get an official Sony cable to try. Thanks for all you do.
Yes, it's an excellent choice! Please check out the RAD2x PlayStation video that describes exactly how much better it is. The RetroTINK2x and RAD2x are both made by the same designer and use the same chips, so while they're different products, everything I say in the RAD2x video applies to your RetroTINK...there will just be a small difference in quality between S-Video and the RGB signal the RAD2x uses th-cam.com/video/a0Ksk9Zru_A/w-d-xo.html
I'm glad I skipped the cheap SCART to HDMI box and went directly to the Framemeister. While it does introduce a tiny bit of lag, it is not something I personally notice. Well, I play mostly turn-based RPGs, so even if there was a ton of lag I wouldn't notice lol. But the image looks super sharp and beautiful, especially when paired with HD Retrovision cables.
I've been using this thing for quite a while now on my CRT setup connected to my SCART splitter because it was the easiest way to get digital audio on to my PC headphones via my HDMI capture card and as an unintended bonus I can stream the game in Discord when hanging out with friends where the best quality or input response isn't really needed.
And where does the Mclassic stand in all of these crappy boxes and cords? I noticed no mentioning of it whatsoever. Have you not got to mess with it yet? Is there any chance the Mclassic makes the experience worse, or is it a device that barely does anything or does nothing?
CastleMania Games Id love a video on it. I really need to know if 1080p in info on tv is good enough. I ask bc my tv does not support 1440p. I have lg OLED c7
Mclassic wont really affect your gameplay experience. Its more about whether or not you like the added anti aliasing effect. The effect will definitely vary from console to console so really it only comes down to personal preference.
They don't add lag, so it's all preference: th-cam.com/video/9Bv-siMaqjQ/w-d-xo.html My personal opinion: The positive effects aren't worth the price. Now, that's just an opinion and other people love it. Bottom line: No lag = feel free to use it confidently.
I accidentally plugged my Genesis power cable into my mine last year and it blew up. It was a sign to upgrade to the OSSC! It's definitely the best way to go for hmdi retro gaming, totally worth the money.
I used this generic scaler with the intention on using it until I could work some overtime and get an OSSC. I think if you go in with that mindset it is not all that bad. I was definitely disappointed with it, but it allowed me to start a modest collection and to get the cheaper parts of my current RGB setup while waiting to get my OSSC. I was able to space out the cost of my setup while still enjoying the games
Thank you for doing this video it kept me from almost waisting $30. I recently purchased a super famicom and while I have a crt I can play it on I don’t really have a lot of room to set my crt up to use it. I have used the regular av cables on my flatscreen and it’s not completely horrible but I was wanting something better. I was considering the level hike cable but after watching this I am glad I didn’t and will instead wait for the rad2x to become available again.
Yikes...I had one of these. Although this SCART to HDMI gives PSX display going wow, the terrible experience that I had faced with that thing is frequent black screen due to crappy 5V adapter that they give until I managed replace it with better adapter. Second is you have to switch modes from SCART mode to HDMI mode and turn it back to SCART mode just to fix green washed out display.
I actually have the SCART to HDMI adapter. So far the only game I've had lag issues with on the PlayStation and Saturn was Pandemonium - but I didn't realize there was that much lag. My Neo CD is running through it (all of them are, I use the scaler for screen capping and video recording), which makes me wonder if the lag is affecting all the 2D Games. Really nice video.
I think this scaler is actually pretty great for certain things.. like standardizing HDMI signals... I couldn’t get my cheap capture card to accept 90% of OSSC’s outputs, but running them thru this thing my capture recognizes the signals just fine. Like 960p for instance, upscales pretty well to 1080p with it for streaming.
It’s a shit scaler for SCART, but it’s the perfect device if you want to be able to stream with your OSSC on the cheap. It won’t accept 5x 1080p though, only up to 960p
It def adds a lil bit of lag tho :( even when using on hdmi. I didn’t notice it at first, but after playing Quake I definitely noticed. Gonna need to split the hdmi before going to it I guess
0:08 Your Genesis is missing the "Produced by or under license from Sega Enterprises Ltd." text when booting it up. All other Genesis consoles I came across display that message before going straight into the game.
Well, you're right, but I wouldn't call it "badly" - It was designed for TV signals and it does a pretty good job with those. It was never designed for games at all.
I started out trying a Pound Cable, and quickly upgraded to using a RetroTink 2x with SVideo. The fact they pushed "full frame" (aka stretched) images through the unit was death for me on my 4K TV. I was stuck with a stretched image, as my TV didn't have a "4:3" mode to squish it back down to it's proper aspect ratio. The colors were also so oversaturated that I couldn't properly correct for it. For most consoles outside of the Sega Genesis, the RetroTINK with sVideo works beautifully, though. It may not be a "pretty" as RGB, but I already owned the cables from years of CRT playing. Sadly the RetroTink doesn't support RGB natively, just component, so to get a good picture on the Genesis I'd have to invest in some HD Retrovision Component Cables, which are on my list but not my budget right now.
I actually prefer to game on a modern display. However, that doesn't mean I am willing put up with signal degradation either. Over the years I've learned (the hard way) that's always better to spend a few extra bucks to get the better scaler.
Hi Rob, You know in my setup I use Splitters at the output of my Switchers, so I can use old cables directly connected to my CRT tv (as Scart, S-Video or Component) and at the same time connectto my DVD recorder outputting in HDMI FULL HD from there. Then I connect that HDMI output to my capture card, led and proyector (thanks to a splitter again). But I have a problem, My second DVD recorder , the one can convert Component to HDMI,upscale only to a max of 480p , so I was looking for a way to upscale HDMI 480p to 1080p but whitout having to pay excesive prices of 100 dollars for it. SO, do you know any device beside this chinese upscaler? since is the only option I founded until now.
I'm glad you're making people aware of these junk devices / cables. I almost got one of these thinking it didn't really matter. But I just felt deep down that I wouldn't be happy with it. Ended up going with the RetroTink2x for a few bucks more and this video reinforces that I made the right decision!
Hi I'd like to connect my laptop to a SCART-equipped TRINITRON WEGA TV. What solution would you recommend? I went through your site but haven't found any info. Yeah, it's not really concerning retro gaming but I hope you'd suggest something:) Thanks in advance!
@@RetroRGB Thanks for the link! I'm starting a new CRT-related motion design project hence I asked, as it's a bit overwhelming. Would you mind if I reached out and picked your brain a little bit?
A polite reminder: Every measurement taken can be verified by anyone who feels the need, simply by following the same procedures. Using the 240p Test Suite's MANUAL lag test is NOT a measurement though - That's basically a test of your reflexes. Also, listing a bunch of claims without measurements is just spreading misinformation; This video is a culmination of RESEARCH and the opinions I state are based off hard measurements, not guesses.
Bob it's funny that you say that this video ins't going t be some elitist perspective. If anything Adam Koralik is the biggest Elitist in the retro gaming community.
I like how much effort you put in to nailing down the facts and making sure you're not guessing or going with your gut. I've found people who either have one of these, or who don't want to buy something expensive will say it isn't laggy for them or that lag doesn't matter. Now nearly a year later when you've hammered the point home with the lag test roundup do you feel you've won the argument or is there still lots of push back?
I was using that scart to hdmi box with a Trinitron Sony CRT via its hdmi port and it worked great. Maybe it's performance is better with hdmi CRTs. Im aware that most people don't have that option since it's rare to find a CRT with hdmi.
@@ericko777 yeah, wouldn’t mind seeing a video on that.
If there is anything to get mad about in this video, it's learning that eBay sellers are destroying retro consoles and stuffing them with garbage.
Rex Buyeo Oh god what!? I haven’t seen the video yet but I can imagine, and that sounds horrific.
*EDIT:* I was right. Dear god, who would ever do that!?
I know, it's a heinous crime. If you ever go to an anime convention, stay away from the artist alley. Some people like to sell consoles as art pieces. Some are good, most are cancer inducing.
Ebay used to be better than amazon, cheaper and to the point. What the fu *ck happened?
@@Jucelegario what happened ?! people are greedy and basically dont give a fk . i was a power seller at one time this 30 day return bullshit from ebay is a joke im not walmart i hate ebay they are the worst .. cheers man
And Aliexpress as well
It's fascinating that Pound and Hyperkin are using the same generic devices as the no-names. Really tarnishes the brand...
I won't say this is what ruined hyperkin brand. They have been pushing supar products for a good while now. I bought a N64 power supply from them that almost cought fire. Turns out the didn't solder anything inside the power supply, Just super glued it.
What "brand?" It essentially launched the "brand" for #Pound, LevelHike, Xtreme, etc. It's not the association that tarnishes them, it's the performance... just like it was for the old scaler boxes.
@@doomisforu "caught". Also I highly doubt they didn't solder anything, because that would make it extremely difficult for a power supply to function at all.
@@rars0n it didn't function, the minute I plugged it in and turned on my n64 it started to burn.
@@doomisforu What you're describing is a short to ground. Superglue has nothing to do with that.
What you are also failing to comprehend, which was implied in my previous comment, is how superglue would likely fail to adequately connect the individual components to the circuit board. In your theoretical superglued power supply, it might have arced but barely at all and certainly wouldn't have caused much smoke. But far more likely is that it wouldn't have worked at all, since there's a high chance that one component along the line is making zero electrical connection and is therefore open. Shorts are caused by electrical connections to ground, which superglue is completely incapable of producing.
You're also ignoring the fact that soldering is cheap and the company would gain absolutely nothing by cranking out a bunch of non-working power supplies instead of just doing shoddy solder work that would actually make them work.
All of this to say, and to reiterate thanks to your reply above, that you have no idea how electronic circuit boards work, and are therefore an unreliable narrator.
I know you don't get as much viewership as you should, but figured i'd add that i've learned a lot from both your site and this channel in the many years I've collected. Almost all my console mods, equipment and such that now hooks up about 40 devices at once came from learning on your site and it's much appreciated!
Thank you!
I've always been a "why buy crap before getting the good thing? I'm just making my overall purchase more expensive" kind of guy. If I can't afford what I actually need then I wait instead of wasting money on crap.
Agreed, or just try and find a CRT for free to hold you off. I like free. Free is something we all can afford :)
I agree so much! I just stuck with my old childhood CRT using RGB SCART cables until I could afford a Trinitron, and now I’ve added a SCART switcher too, and I’ve got practically the perfect retro setup now.
Same. In general, my experience has been that you get what you pay for.
@@justanotheryoutubechannel Which SCART switcher u're using please?
TheXheretic728 A Bandridge brand switcher, I’ve forgotten exactly which model. My Life in Gaming did a video on switchers as it is the first Bandridge model they mentioned. It’s really good!
Great work Bob. Scientific process and evidence always beat opinion. Videos like this should be the gold standard for equipment reviews.
As a question, When using an HDTV, how do we know when it's the cable that's causing the lag, rather than the television itself?
You'd have to test each HDMI upscaler individually. Which is what I'm here for :)
EVEN LARRY HAS TO ASK QUESTIONS?!
@@SolidSonicTH He's hunting for facts. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Hey Bob. You are putting out some really good and helpful videos lately. Thank You from the bottom of my heart.
No, thank YOU!
This is the best explanation of display lag I have ever seen. I love the high speed camera footage that shows the frames being drawn, excellent job Bob!
In some of the Facebook groups about retro gaming I frequent, people are always recommending those crappy "SCART to HDMI"-boxes. I always try and tell them to not waste their money, but they seldom listen.
Well, now you can link them to this video and let them harass me instead of you :)
@@RetroRGB I just linked it in one of those threads ;)
This is a great video, dude. Hopefully it helps educate people.
Well I like many others learn this the hard way with crappy scalars and poor performance before buying an ossc.
Thank you for taking the reigns and showing us how its done and WHY its done. Much appreciated.
Wow, not only a fantastic breakdown with side-by-side comparisons but also a great message at the end about treating each other in the retro game communities. You, my man, have received my permanent sub (for whatever that’s worth!)
Thanks very much!
I got 2 frames of lag trying to watch this video.
You're clearly not using the right adapter ;p
Got to be honest, I've just recently got into the retro gaming scene and have become a PS2 collector. I fell for all this, started off buying these cheap, crappy scalers before finally realising I would have been better off investing that money elsewhere.
If only I had come across your videos prior to that, would have saved me a few quid :)
Great video, thanks
god bless Bob doing so much legwork on these things. RetroRGB feels like the only place that takes lag as seriously as I do.
I am really grateful to you, Bob, for making these sorts of videos. They are very informative, and I genuinely look forward to watching each and every one of them. They seriously brighten up my day. It’s amazing to have someone who knows their tech making videos to aid those of us who don’t have a proper grasp of it. Keep up the good work, man!
Thank you!
Who could be angered by a good faith effort to inform consumers?
I mean, except people who profit from misinformation and people who prefer to believe lies...
There are always people out there who have a problem with someone speaking about a subject in an authoritative manner. It goes hand in hand with the modern anti-science/proud to be stupid culture that's unfortunately continuing to gain traction. Basically, there are people out there who have a serious problem with anything or anyone that comes across as (or is) an authority figure. These people immediately have a "you can't tell me what to do, dad!" reaction when they're told how to properly do something.
As a teddy cameo in this video once said "What a shit load of fuck!".
Another fantastic video, packed with great info for both those new to the community but also those that have been around for awhile. Nice work!
Thank you, Bob. We've needed an authoritative video on this for a long time. As it was, people wouldn't even believe me when I tell them that the cables and the boxes were the exact same things with the exact same problems. Way too many people thought the Hyperkin, Pound, LevelHike, Xtreme, etc cables were some kind of solution, even excitedly modding them to support other consoles (obviously thinking they were getting something better than the [analog]2HDMI boxes). The defensive arguments have been truly ridiculous. There's even a local who is supposed to come see me in person expecting to prove me wrong about his modded Hyperkin cables. :)
About the only thing I would change about this video is the part where it says these scalers were made for VCRs and stuff as opposed to videogames. They were actually made to be the support electronics inside a TV which digitize analog sources and connect to the LCD panel. That's why some have a HUD showing the input signal, an aspect ratio switch, etc. It's also why they have all the same problems with 240p as any other generic HDTV with analog inputs (proper 240p processing seems to be reserved for the scalers manufacturers use in their own sets instead of shopping around to other manufacturers... Sony, Samsung, etc won't share). These generic scalers literally just took the digitized output of a TV's internal scaler, intended to go to a panel, and routed it through an HDMI transmitter instead. It's decidedly worse than getting a digital TV with analog inputs because at least there's a chance it will support 240p and even if it doesn't the external scaler will double the latency. Boo!
totally agree with you was also behind it, I am sensitive to lag, I have sent back a lot of purchases. I made one for the xbox classic myself. not prefect but none was finally someone on my side who can substantiate it.
You sir, are awesome! Since buying my CRT, I've been taking in all your knowledge. Great to watch, very informative, and nothing but facts!
Thank you!
Came for the scaler video info, immediately got distracted by the Rust in Peace guitar in the background. It's a beauty.
Thank you!
This is a great video, I personally went through ALLOT of ways to record/process old video game signals. I started playing around with it like...9 years ago and what I regret the most is wasting money on these cheap chinese scaler recommendations. They are all trash, no exception, I always got MUCH better results even from direct input into my TV or deinterlacing filters in video converter software or video editors.
I wasn't ready to spend almost 300 euro on a big boy scaler like what I have now (DVDO VP30 with an upgrade) but looking back at it now I may have spent more cumulatively on these various awful scart/component to HDMI solutions
The lag on this HD Video Converter is insane. I bought it 5 years ago. It drives me nuts.
Before I got my Framemeister I had one of those "off brand" upscalers. It had automatic stretched 720P video and the colours, especially the greens were super off. I never even tried to see how much lag it actually produced because the first two were already too off putting for my own standards. Glad you made a video warning people about these pieces of crap.
Ouch, I was wondering why I was doing so crappy in the older games. I have that $30 upscaler. So in the end I will still have to buy a OSSC. Thanks for the video, helped clarify the issues I was having with my converter.
Thank you for posting this! Very informative and needed, especially for folks just starting out.
Just got back into n64 gaming and trying to weed out the junk before taking the plunge on a proper scaler. Thanks for the tips!
It's when the retro gaming perfectionists like me and you come into play, common folks get annoyed and for a good reason. They would agree to play "dune" on their Genesis found in attic via RF or component "bananas", sadly their TV does not accept those signals. You brag about synthetic tests while people buy clones with composite outputs from ALI that are built upon NOAC solutions, play emulators on android phones and have no problems with that. What I mean is, that SCART to HDMI is an excellent device for 99.99% of population that is not f*** in a head purist. You care for frame or two? Good for you. I myself use OSSC, but I am a retrogamer, not a guy with a once in a lifetime wish to re-enjoy few games on real hardware.
Are the labels at 3:34 reversed? Direct s-video isnt somehow more laggy and also hooked up to the 16:9 CRT for some reason, is it?
Crap, they ARE reversed :( I checked this video MANY times too and it still got by me. Sorry!
@@RetroRGB That's what I figured. Still a good video, and I understood that part fine from context.
Great video Bob. Best channel on youtube for retro stuff !!! Cheers
I agree. These cheap scart to HDMI scalers are horrible for gaming. I have two of them and never understood why someone would recommend them for gaming.
Just saw this. My dude fired shots from the get go
10:27 You gotta feel for Adam Koralik. Whenever this scaler is brought up, he’s always shit upon for praising it back when there were no other decent HDMI solutions (Even though now he doesn’t like it, and has moved to a RetroTink 5x Pro). It’s good to see Bob keeping the video’s context in mind without without blaming him for something he couldn’t have known.
Adam gets blamed because he refused to admit he was wrong for YEARS, all while people were wasting their money on this based on his video. He showed no remorse at all, blamed other people and yelled in my face during an in-person interview when I was trying to squash any beef he had with me.
I will never stop trying to keep people from wasting money and I'll never stop calling people out for recommending bullshit. And I'll never understand why people defend Adam over this...
@@RetroRGB My apologies. I sincerely had no idea that Adam was as aggressive as he was towards criticism. I do not defend this kind of behavior nor the misinformation when he became fully aware that there were better solutions.
As a fan of both of you guys, I sincerely hope that Adam will change his attitude, especially considering that he has been showcasing better solutions in the past few years. I did not comment with the intention of adding fuel to a fire.
@@RetroRGB I'm watching this video for the first time and thought you were arguably too kind to him in this, although that was definitely the right move on your part. The stuff he was putting forward at that time couldn't even be excused on the basis of ignorance back then. I remember doing research of my own for scaling and capture equipment in 2012-2013 and being baffled at things like this being recommended by anyone who purported to be an expert. Like, even if literally the only information you had to go off of was Fudoh's old XRGB/scaler review pages (which were the most widely shared starting points for this subject) you should have already known better.
@@RetroRGB That man hates any kind of criticism. lol. ANY.. LOL
Could you recommend the best converter/upscaler to digitize great picture and sound from an old s-video VCR (home movies) to 1080p HDMI/mp4? Thanks!
Honestly, the scalers that I say "never use for gaming" are actually great for VCR's. My suggestion is to start with the absolute cheapest you can find on amazon and go from there. If it's not good enough, there's better options, but cost goes up exponentially; DVDO deinterlacers, domesday duplicator project, etc.
Though the upside about the SCART to HDMI. It doesn't lose it's picture when a PS1 game does the resolution change. Though the downside is the picture is moved over to the right a tiny bit which can be fixed in editing....just gotta tough it out for the OSSC Pro which they said will have a buffer mode which get's rid of the sync drop in PS1 games.
I have this, now I don't have any problem with lag, what's a bigger problem for me is that there is noise, man is there noise and flickering (a lot) The colors are also dull and not popping at all, but
I can play on a flat screen but the pictures are horrible.
My problem is finding a good replacement that works on both Nes and Amiga.
AV and RGB 15hz
Try a RetroTINK product: www.retrorgb.com/retrotink.html
Informative video, as always. I love that you took the time to point out a few scenarios where the cheapo scaler might be a good fit.
Great video! Newcomers: Don't buy this junk! There are plenty of other solid options out there now that don't cost an arm and a leg.
I think there is a problem with your 24fps film footage. Looks like its dropping frames (Maybe 24fps to 60fps conversion?).
Possible. All the game footage is good though, which is all that really matters to me :)
U just saved me money for exactly this scaler, many thanks!
Agreed! Thanks for the help!
Haven't played it yet but I do want to say the teaser image scaling immediately made me smile
I have also seen the videos praising those scart-2-hdmi devices and at one time I was close to fork out the money for one but Luckily never did, I did however buy an OSSC and am very happy about that, it gives an almost unbelievable sharp image with no noise, worth every penny.
Great video and emphasis on a good message. Totally agree on all your points, I also don't try to be elitist about set ups. I personally saw some of the youtube reviews for the pound cables and got swept up in the hype. I received 2 in a row that were terrible with different problems! That's what made me learn about VGA, S-Video and RGB FTW.
This is great information. Thank you for presenting it.
just for curiosity i bought a cheap ''av2hdmi'' converter and wanted to see what it did. first of all it had around 110ms of lag, but worse the image on my nes was blue and purple.. no mather what game i tried. my snes had all of its colours on screen but it looked really choppy and grainy.. i gave that thing to my coworker who now uses it for his dvd player. according to him its fine for that. but its terrible for gaming.
Yup. And the scaler I talked about is even pretty good for SCART DVD players as well. Just not games :)
My grandfather taught me "buy once, cry once." Meaning, spend the big money the first time to buy the product that will last.
That's good advice. I wish I could say that's me...but I'm 100% guilty of trying to cheap out, THEN finding the right solution. LOL, maybe now with the website and TH-cam channel I can help others from making that mistake :)
I think about the only good thing about the Pound/Hyperkin/LevelHike adapter is they would make for an easy way to hook up to a capture card to get decent enough game play footage.
Can you do a recommendation video?
This video is the best I've got for now...but I'll have more detailed videos on the RetroTINK2x and OSSC soon!: th-cam.com/video/DyE85OFGQpM/w-d-xo.html
Totally agree and this video needs to be spread. I've seen other youtubers say that the generic scaler is fine, good enough and much cheaper than alternatives. I started with the crap off brand upscaler on my oled TV because it was cheap, people said it was fine and I was hesitant to spend a bunch of money on tech to support older games and figured it will be good enough. Its just plain bad. Put up with it for about a year around 2015-2016. 240p games looked "acceptable" when paused but there was lag and blur during gameplay that just took away from the experience too much. Granted, the off brand upscaler can be used. I beat numerous 240p games like the original sonics, a few megaman x series games, metal slug etc using it. It can be done but if you really enjoy retro and want to play retro games regularly you gotta go with one of the good scalers recommended by Bob. It makes the games more fun and easier to play as intended. You really are just handicapping yourself in gameplay and making the entire experience more frustrating due to the lag and the video blur just makes a mess of sprite work. It made certain instances unplayable. It was near impossible to line up the slots on the slot machine in Super Mario Bros. 3 with the generic scaler. I then got a OSSC and its totally worth it if you play a descent amount of retro and led to me playing more retro since it made games perceivably easier and more fun due to not fighting lag. I did switch to CRT about 6 months ago when I found a PVM locally but the good scalers RetroRGB recommends are more than enough for the average gamer with few drawbacks. With my OSSC vs CRT, its also noticeably easier for example to line up the slot machines in SMB3 on CRT but OSSC is great none the less during 95% of the gameplay I've experienced. I only use the ossc for multiplayer with others for the bigger screen now since I enjoy playing on the CRT more but it is very acceptable as your only solution with only a few drawbacks due to LCD/OLED lag but that isn't the OSSCs fault. If you have the passion for old games, just pick up a good scaler like the OSSC, retrotink or other good scalers recently discussed by rgbretro or a consumer CRT, or if you find a PVM, for your retro games. Don't waste your money on the generic scaler, Mine sits unused in my closet now and was frustrating during the time I used it.
Metal Jesus said this scaler was fine and that the Pound PS2 HDMI cables were......
Great video. I do use one of these things for testing and image capture occasionally on my channel but I quickly realised they were terrible for PLAYING games. They also can overheat pretty badly, I had to heat sink the chip in mine. Keep fighting the good fight! 👍
I feel like people buy the cheap crap because it's actually in stock and available on Amazon that you can get free shipping in a couple of days. Not saying it's a worthy excuse for buying crap but I'd rather just deal with my TV's factory upscaler than deal with waiting on the rad2x or the retrotink.
Fair. We're all trying to solve that problem though! Maybe someday...
Adam Koralik, "would have noticed" if it had lag.
He's hardly an expert, Bob was being awfully kind. This is the same bloke thay calls a "restoration" a wipe down with a cloth.
He also said, "There's no reason to use a CRT except for light gun games."
And that scanlines "add extra clutter to the screen that doesn't need to be there."
darksoulzfreak I mean if you want the best looking game possible using a CRT is kinda just a downgrade. Adding scanlines also just adds clutter like in its most literal sense it is more shit on the screen that can be removed
Great video mate. Hopefully it’ll help educate people!
That's a perfect point, poor scaling is an altered experience! It's not just about image quality here, variable lag makes the game play unpredictable/uneven and you simply cannot adjust to it.
Oh and that poor AES with the "internal HDMI" mod, my God that's one less AES in the world now. Case is all hacked up, good for nothing but the scrap heap. *Shakes head*
I see you know your stuff, could you help me out? I want to digitalize vhs content. The box that you are showing here is quite cheap as you said, handles rgb over scart and I want to add a hdmi capture box to get the video onto my pc. How does it handle fields as home videos are interlaced. so from 576i50 how does it convert to 1080p? does it make it 50p and each frame is representing a field (this is my guess as in the video you said the backround was jumping a bit). Also about the lag: does it get out of sync with the audio or only lags from input? I would appreciate your help, thank you!
Check out both of these videos for a ton of info on PROPER tape transfer, including why devices like this won't work for tapes (no TBC): th-cam.com/video/Br6YRkOM9jA/w-d-xo.html / th-cam.com/video/9N9mRJKk9ps/w-d-xo.html
@@RetroRGB I'm not interested in "proper" as it's waaay too expensive and we are talking about bad quality home videos here. I willing to spend a bit extra on the mentioned devices (rgb scart box and hdmi capture) over the composite to usb2. I would just like to know about how the fields are handled in such a setup. Thanks
I appreciate your doing the right thing. I purchased that scaler and good rgb to scart cables for my Genesis and in five minutes realized the scaler was blurring the image while scrolling in Phantasy Star 2. I then discontinued use. Then I RGB modded my N64 based on info on your site and the scaler works OK with 3D. I dont mind spending money to learn and appreciate the problems and challenges. I will buy the cheap new scaler you recommended can't remember its name.
Wonder what is best for upscaling PS2 to HDMI. I use component cables, but aren't compatible with all my games for streaming. Pound HDMI cable for rest. Any tips?
I found an old CRT HDTV with an HDMI. It also has build in VCR and DVD. Best of all worlds, except light gun games. The HDMI has overscan, so I use component for gaming. I do have it hooked up to my 55 inch too. I also added a capture card for streaming. CRT is still the way I like to go for retro.
I'm not a snobby retro guy. I don't have the funds. I don't care about up scaling. But, I did have most of my RF consoles modded to composite. That is where the money is well spent!
Great video.
Cool...is it a 4:3 or 16:9 TV?
I love this. There are SO many gaming enthusiasts that are big on youtube and are selfproclaimed experts on gaming that dont have the skills to recognize all the flaws of these terribad devices. The shit reviews Ive seen that dont challenge or even notice some of the flaws is just ridiculous. Thanks for this vid!
This (scart to hdmi) was the first one I bought too. Sad that at the time I thought it was good. First broke in a month, second one has a ridiculously sputtery image. At least I have a Retrotink2x now
It looks great on my tv lol. I retcon the fatguy is trying to sell us the Rad scaler and I was about to order one but this smearing now? Now I'm not buying his Rad scaler.
J.C. L. Build quality is over the map so you might have lucked out
@@Drinkabeerandplayagameofficial I mean, I have a passthrough device (to component video) that requires another device connected to it for sound and it does look better but the audio device only outputs one channel, so I bought the "worst scaler" hdmi solution. Both the passthrough and the "worst scaler" hdmi solution from this video give me no preceivable lag on my snes, my genesis or my ps1. I do wish SOMEONE could make a reliable sound device for the scart to component output device.
J.C.L
@@Inv8erZlM I know the passthrough solution means no lag but can't speak about the hdmi "worst..." solution, just that I perceive no lag whatsoever through neither. That is, on a cheap 32" 720p 2017 Panasonic LED tv with no other configuration than color calibration and basic contrast.
Awesome video. I tend to stay away from those converter/upscalers and just stick to using my consoles native cables. I do use a performance VGA box for my dreamcast though but otherwise it is mostly SVideo where applicable.
Bob doing the Lord's work.
Yeah I just got one of these for streaming - works ok-ish for that. So I split my RGB signal and one goes into my CRT and the other goes into one of these things then into my capture card. As I say, seems to work ok that mostly. Will upgrade when I can space the $$$
That's the PERFECT use for it! Just my opinion: If you're only using it for streaming and your favorite games are 480i (most PS2), you might not need to upgrade at all.
I'm using one kinda cheap upscaler and while the image can be better (and for recording I have to use OBS or equivalents to have the resolution image I want because is streched), I haven't feel any lag, BUT still even with that, I REALLY want to get a better upscaler once I save enough money, but if you can suggest me a cheap one for recording (and playing) games on a flat screen, what good scalers should I get for my retro consoles (NES, SNES, Genesis model 2, N64, Wii, PS2... also suggest me a good cable for the PS2 with the composite method, or the best quality image with a proper upscaler as well), excluding the expensive ones like the XRGB Mini?
Hugged my CRT after watching
:)
KV-21FS150 owner here and I know that this CRT isn't the best out there (well, I have to say that I owned unused) but definitely is the BEST for 240p and 480i content (strange that some PS3 games looks better on it, too). I only wish it could have another Component input and/or S-Video.
Amazing! Thank you! The more we vote with our money the better products will be, even emulation wise. Your work is very important. I always look forward to your videos.
You know, I struggled for an age with shitty MD/Genesis cables on my 50" plasma. Looks crap but I got used to it. Then I took the plunge and invested in a very good RGB Scart. It's so crisp it looks emulated. Doesn't even need to be upscaled it looks so nice. Transparency effects and tricks used to simulate light and water look terrible though cus they can't use the refresh flicker to fool the eye.
RGB all the way for me.
This was my first upscaler and I decided to try it out again recently only to find that the poor thing had died lol. It still powers up and even sends a signal to my HDMI splitter, but it just can't process any signals, not even the HDMI passthru. Rip crummy baby's first upscaler, you will be used a donor board going forward.
I have admittedly used the HD Video Converter with an unattenuated Neo Geo MVS board, as I didn't want to try the unattenuated MVS with my OSSC.
Great use! LOL, test with that first, THEN your OSSC :)
What's exactly used for splitting the video output seen in 3:20 ? I'm looking for a cheap solution to splitt video so I can play in RGB quality on a CRT while recording image with an HDMI capture card (RGB Scart distribution amplifiers seem to be rare and expensive in europe).
That's a custom breakout board from Mobius Strip Tech. They should be available for sale soon.
@@RetroRGB Thank you and great vid.
I got one of those Scart to HDMI converters last year. Thought it was okay at first, but I quickly noticed how it blurs moving pixels, and my unit even randomly interlaced some frames every few seconds. Completely unusable and needless to say it got shelved.
I had the black HD box when I first dipped my toes into scart. Then I got a Retrotink scart to component and the results are eye opening.
It's a lot of people's "gateway drug" into retro, which is awesome...as long as people know it's a stepping stone. Like, riding a bike with training wheels vs without - If no one ever told you how much better it is without the training wheels on, you might think riding bikes is awful.
I have that exact upscaler, and it's fine for my personal needs. Your use case of playing on a CRT while streaming / capturing was pretty much the only way I could get House of the Dead footage to my capture card while playing with the light gun. Gotta say, I'm not sensitive to lag. People talk about 1 to 3 frames and it's honestly not perceptible to me. Maybe I'm just weird? I think for under £30, it's worth a punt for a starter as you said.
What are the cheaper recommendations you showed in the video?
"Cheaper" depends on what you've already bought. The better solutions are the RAD2x cables, the RetroTINK2x and the OSSC.
@@RetroRGB thank you, I meant to ask which ones were cheaper than the ossc but more effective than the one this video is about.
Hello, I have a RetroTink and wondered if hooking up my PS1 console via S Video to it would give a much better result than the Pound cable? I'm going to get an official Sony cable to try. Thanks for all you do.
Yes, it's an excellent choice! Please check out the RAD2x PlayStation video that describes exactly how much better it is. The RetroTINK2x and RAD2x are both made by the same designer and use the same chips, so while they're different products, everything I say in the RAD2x video applies to your RetroTINK...there will just be a small difference in quality between S-Video and the RGB signal the RAD2x uses th-cam.com/video/a0Ksk9Zru_A/w-d-xo.html
Ignorance is not welcome here. Ps. Last paragraph made me happy.
I'm glad I skipped the cheap SCART to HDMI box and went directly to the Framemeister. While it does introduce a tiny bit of lag, it is not something I personally notice. Well, I play mostly turn-based RPGs, so even if there was a ton of lag I wouldn't notice lol. But the image looks super sharp and beautiful, especially when paired with HD Retrovision cables.
I've been using this thing for quite a while now on my CRT setup connected to my SCART splitter because it was the easiest way to get digital audio on to my PC headphones via my HDMI capture card and as an unintended bonus I can stream the game in Discord when hanging out with friends where the best quality or input response isn't really needed.
And where does the Mclassic stand in all of these crappy boxes and cords? I noticed no mentioning of it whatsoever. Have you not got to mess with it yet? Is there any chance the Mclassic makes the experience worse, or is it a device that barely does anything or does nothing?
CastleMania Games Id love a video on it. I really need to know if 1080p in info on tv is good enough. I ask bc my tv does not support 1440p. I have lg OLED c7
Mclassic wont really affect your gameplay experience. Its more about whether or not you like the added anti aliasing effect. The effect will definitely vary from console to console so really it only comes down to personal preference.
They don't add lag, so it's all preference: th-cam.com/video/9Bv-siMaqjQ/w-d-xo.html
My personal opinion: The positive effects aren't worth the price. Now, that's just an opinion and other people love it. Bottom line: No lag = feel free to use it confidently.
I accidentally plugged my Genesis power cable into my mine last year and it blew up. It was a sign to upgrade to the OSSC! It's definitely the best way to go for hmdi retro gaming, totally worth the money.
I used this generic scaler with the intention on using it until I could work some overtime and get an OSSC. I think if you go in with that mindset it is not all that bad. I was definitely disappointed with it, but it allowed me to start a modest collection and to get the cheaper parts of my current RGB setup while waiting to get my OSSC. I was able to space out the cost of my setup while still enjoying the games
i did the same thing when i was saving up for my framemeister hehe
Thank you for doing this video it kept me from almost waisting $30. I recently purchased a super famicom and while I have a crt I can play it on I don’t really have a lot of room to set my crt up to use it. I have used the regular av cables on my flatscreen and it’s not completely horrible but I was wanting something better. I was considering the level hike cable but after watching this I am glad I didn’t and will instead wait for the rad2x to become available again.
A nerd talking about nerdy things for nerds, totally love it....... :).
Yikes...I had one of these. Although this SCART to HDMI gives PSX display going wow, the terrible experience that I had faced with that thing is frequent black screen due to crappy 5V adapter that they give until I managed replace it with better adapter.
Second is you have to switch modes from SCART mode to HDMI mode and turn it back to SCART mode just to fix green washed out display.
I actually have the SCART to HDMI adapter. So far the only game I've had lag issues with on the PlayStation and Saturn was Pandemonium - but I didn't realize there was that much lag. My Neo CD is running through it (all of them are, I use the scaler for screen capping and video recording), which makes me wonder if the lag is affecting all the 2D Games. Really nice video.
I think this scaler is actually pretty great for certain things.. like standardizing HDMI signals... I couldn’t get my cheap capture card to accept 90% of OSSC’s outputs, but running them thru this thing my capture recognizes the signals just fine. Like 960p for instance, upscales pretty well to 1080p with it for streaming.
It’s a shit scaler for SCART, but it’s the perfect device if you want to be able to stream with your OSSC on the cheap. It won’t accept 5x 1080p though, only up to 960p
It even somehow recognizes OSSC’s 1440i signal on 3x 480i. It looks like absolute ass, but it works haha
It def adds a lil bit of lag tho :( even when using on hdmi. I didn’t notice it at first, but after playing Quake I definitely noticed. Gonna need to split the hdmi before going to it I guess
0:08 Your Genesis is missing the "Produced by or under license from Sega Enterprises Ltd." text when booting it up. All other Genesis consoles I came across display that message before going straight into the game.
The oldest Mega Drive/Genesis consoles produced don't have that screen.
The saddest thing is that the SCART-HDMI box has the power to process images with a low delay but is badly configured from the factory.
Well, you're right, but I wouldn't call it "badly" - It was designed for TV signals and it does a pretty good job with those. It was never designed for games at all.
@@RetroRGB this video show a lot of scaler options of the chipset:
th-cam.com/video/dvcoXRKdPvI/w-d-xo.html
I started out trying a Pound Cable, and quickly upgraded to using a RetroTink 2x with SVideo. The fact they pushed "full frame" (aka stretched) images through the unit was death for me on my 4K TV. I was stuck with a stretched image, as my TV didn't have a "4:3" mode to squish it back down to it's proper aspect ratio. The colors were also so oversaturated that I couldn't properly correct for it.
For most consoles outside of the Sega Genesis, the RetroTINK with sVideo works beautifully, though. It may not be a "pretty" as RGB, but I already owned the cables from years of CRT playing. Sadly the RetroTink doesn't support RGB natively, just component, so to get a good picture on the Genesis I'd have to invest in some HD Retrovision Component Cables, which are on my list but not my budget right now.
pure education. well done!
I actually prefer to game on a modern display. However, that doesn't mean I am willing put up with signal degradation either. Over the years I've learned (the hard way) that's always better to spend a few extra bucks to get the better scaler.
hey are line doublers any decent? like those of retrotink or Kaicolabs?
The RetroTINK products are excellent. Here's more info: th-cam.com/video/7VOsOuQ5mhM/w-d-xo.html
Hi Rob, You know in my setup I use Splitters at the output of my Switchers, so I can use old cables directly connected to my CRT tv (as Scart, S-Video or Component) and at the same time connectto my DVD recorder outputting in HDMI FULL HD from there. Then I connect that HDMI output to my capture card, led and proyector (thanks to a splitter again). But I have a problem, My second DVD recorder , the one can convert Component to HDMI,upscale only to a max of 480p , so I was looking for a way to upscale HDMI 480p to 1080p but whitout having to pay excesive prices of 100 dollars for it. SO, do you know any device beside this chinese upscaler? since is the only option I founded until now.
I'm glad you're making people aware of these junk devices / cables. I almost got one of these thinking it didn't really matter. But I just felt deep down that I wouldn't be happy with it. Ended up going with the RetroTink2x for a few bucks more and this video reinforces that I made the right decision!
Hi I'd like to connect my laptop to a SCART-equipped TRINITRON WEGA TV. What solution would you recommend? I went through your site but haven't found any info. Yeah, it's not really concerning retro gaming but I hope you'd suggest something:) Thanks in advance!
You'd have to get into downscaling, which is complicated. This might help: www.retrorgb.com/480i-downscalers-tested.html
@@RetroRGB Thanks for the link! I'm starting a new CRT-related motion design project hence I asked, as it's a bit overwhelming. Would you mind if I reached out and picked your brain a little bit?
The shit scaler solve capture issues with ossc?
On some cards, yeah. As I showed in the video, it can mess with the signal, but it's better than nothing.