One of my favorite overwatch clips of all time was when the Shock reverse sweeped the Justice in the playoffs and hearing super scream "I fucking told you we were gonna reverse sweep this shit" there was so much passion and emotion from him in that moment
@@jwpogue they worked with Halo to make it seem that decay, mag, and assassin might be leaving or something, and then did like an announcement where they were making a kpop band. I think they did some photoshoot work for it too
@@jwpogue They got Halo to post a tweet saying that he had been hearing "interesting noises coming from the Justice surrounding Decay, Assassin and Mag" a day before April Fool's Day. This alone was quite funny because of the possible sexual meaning to it. Justice on April 1st then posted a tweet, which we were all expecting because of the Halo leak, saying that they were saying goodbye to Decay, Assassin and Mag because they had decided to pursue a career in Kpop. It was such a funny twist at the time and being the first April Fool's joke of the day (IIRC), it managed to fool me for a good 5 seconds.
I know super leaving doesn't mean ow2 will be bad, but it does worry me. I just found super to be one of the most dedicated ow players so with him gone, a major face of owl is gone
True, also like can you blame ppl for thinking maybe that means he didnt like ow2 or thought it was bad maybe. Considering he said he wouldnt retire, and then owl players finally get access to ow2 for scrims and then like a week later he's like nah im retiring lol
I'd love to see Super return for some OWL community role or casting/hosting etc. He has the charisma and by god the knowledge and experience, and he is loved by so many players and respected within the pro scene.
@@NaruBrilu I have no idea why people want so desperately for this game to be bad that they're willing to ignore Super's very clear message about the deterioration of his mental health through the insane schedule that streaming and scrimming demands. I can absolutely blame people.
Imma be honest, I'm more excited about the shock heading into this season than i have been since the 2018 season. Been a fan since then and as a fan of meat sports I love being able to see a team take the ups and downs and figure it out. They will be good, but please people, please don't scream and shout at the team if they struggle.
Oh they will scream and shout at them if they struggle lol A lot of Shock fans get super pissy if they don't perform up to the standards of winning two championships. It's completely unfair and I feel bad for the Shock players to have just so many "fans" like that. EDIT: Like the amount of shit fdgod and Glister got whenever the Shock weren't doing well last season was really nasty to see.
Really? This is the lowest I've ever been on the Shock. It's literally only Proper and Viol2t that I'm excited to see play now. Praying Crusty is able to work magic again.
So i counted. There's only 17 players from season 1 that played all 4 seasons pretty much, left in the league (this does however include Tobi, Jake and Fearless. As even if they weren't playing or aren't, for Tobi and Jake, they are still heavily involved in the league). The season 1 Philly squad has the most people left in the league. Was curious because of Super retiring.
Holy piss those colluge behaviors were tame in comparison to the rumors. Sure, the stuff he was confirmed to have done is shitty, but man idk why this conversation would even be happening if that’s all he did.
yeah dude imagine being blacklisted from a career because you made one edgy joke and boosted because the semi-pro scene was so untenable financially (which several OWL players did before OWL) and getting your name dragged through the mud for 4 years. Mob mentality is crazy.
@@yoshirox4eva I think "one edgy joke" is a bit of a simplification. He had a reputation for toxicity and it didn't help he often was surrounded by toxic people. it's unfortunate the stuff others did was pinned on him, but luckily it seems to have largely been cleared up. I think it's good to see him get a chance in OWL but it's not like much of what gave him a bad reputation weren't his own actions.
2020 - I feel like Shock v Dragons was the match we should've had in the finals but the Hog meta changed that in favour of Seoul's playstyle. And I would've loved to have seen the last match in the 2021 Finals to have been between Dragons and Fuel again as I feel Fuel could've adapted better than Reign even after their glorious run. 2022 Reign looking pretty sick though.
I think I recall Moon saying that his team thought Gladiators as a whole actually were the scarier team at the time of the championship. And I think that's very understandable. Even if story wise with Fearless being on Dragons formerly, it Would have been cool to see him in the finals. But if you wanted Moon's 2 cents on who they didn't want to play in finals necessairly.
@@CrazeeAdam Dragon as whole never say who is their biggest competitor in play off and they shouldn't really do that ,every player and coach could have different opinion but their clearly didn't pay much more attention for one team than other because they only want to win it all.
@@CrazeeAdam I had to go back and look at what happened to the Glads, it was a tough break going up against Atlanta in that run cause this was arguable Glads best year yet. The team this year looks pretty dangerous too as long as the new pieces to the roster get to play at their best.
Shanghai beat Seoul in that hog meta a few weeks before final 4 they should of easily rolled them in a rematch considering in the hog matchup it wasn’t close the first time they had their chances even if the meta was bad for them they lost 2 close 3-2 games
2021 Dragons, never have I seen a team so obviously an entire tier above the rest, (and 2021 had true championship calibre teams, Dallas, Glads, Atlanta, Chengdu). In a meta where there was a lot of viability too, without crazy wild cards (hog). They truly embodied that Zen quote, defeat was quite literally an impossibility in their minds, and imo not a single team in OW1 history would have stood a chance.
This may be a hot take but i think shock 2019 could beat them. Or at the very least be up to their level. 2019 titans could beat them too, but only in goats meta lol
Yeah, not sure why they went with 2018 Glads team other than that they just hate the Glads. Putting them against 2021 Dragons seals it for me that whomever made this can get fucked. Obviously a Dragons or Shock fan that deliberately made the bracket to see a Dragons v Dragons or a Shock v Shock final. PlatChat using this as filler content to have a full episode 🙄
Avast's point about how the 2019 Vancouver were playing the Washington Justice of 2019... except Vancouver has never actually beaten the Justice... (Someone please fact check this, but I think this is correct)
You are correct. Titans have never won against the Justice. They never actually played during Goats, Justice got the 4-0 during Stage 4, and then Titans imploded before they played again.
1:35:21 well being purely a competitor isn't the worst in itself, being well-rounded as an individual or well-rounded from a business perspective are two different things
One thing I've noticed is the Shock likes to recruit... players that are let's call them "ethical/moral projects" They take people on known for problematic or toxic behavior and try to reform them (Sinatraa, Viole3t etc). I wonder if that is deliberate or not. With Coluge (and I think maybe Prosper) that seems to have continued. I wonder if Crusty is trying to do some greater work here on how elite gamers behave, and if so I hope he's successful.
pretty sure chengdu won like 5 maps in playoffs in s4, not sure why custa thought they didn't win any. they won a close game against atlanta, got swept by dallas, and narrowly lost to shock in losers
We're going to see such polar opposite tales with Speedily and Seicoe. I think these guys are both elites coming from Contenders, but we'll be singing Speedily's praises throughout this year as I suspect Atlanta will hit some scattered highs, while Seicoe gets relegated to honorable mentions being on a losing team.
I honestly think 2021 Hunters would be really good at goats if it was the meta, Nisha Lucio (servicable), Yveltal Brig, Mmonk zen, Lateyoung Zar, Elsa Dva, Rein IDK, maybe Ameng.
2021 dragons ball comp is untouchable. I also think they embody the evolution of OW1 to having 6 players that u dont have to swap out that can play any meta at a high level
I'll play devil's advocate for 2018 NYXL. They won multiple stages. And went to all 4 stage finals. They are incredibly cracked imo. Maybe more than Philly was in 2020. That's how I would compare. NYXL just didn't miss. Also you could argue that Spitfire only dipped in quality in 2018 because Birdring hurt his wrist and was out for an entire stage. Peak Spitfire is by far better than 2020 Eternal On the 2021 Dragons. I do think you put them in any era pretty much and they would smash almost any team. Not only are they all supremely talented. They are next level big brained. Not saying all other teams are dumb but in matches you could literally see them adapting. Even if they lose a map or somehow 2, they come back with the optimal solution and destroy their opponents.
the closest thing the league has had to super, charisma and stream wise has been apply or XQC, however they aren’t in OWL anymore so the next best thing is SPACE
It's hard to be a fan of any team because players change every 3 games, but Shock was different. I've been a fan because of Super and I have no idea who I'm going to root for now.
Eh. I would say teams do do this. But some teams do stick with key players for long stretches. Outlaws (with Danteh and Jake), Dragons have had the same roster for 3 years now pretty much, Seoul have kept Profit, Fits and Creative for 3 years and Tobi is on the roster again, Philly have hung onto and Carpe, Dallas with Doha, so there are some examples. Now Violet is the only one left on Shock though yeah :(
For 2018 london also do the vancouver 2019 thing and look how they would be now. I mean profit, birdring, gesture, fury, closer/nus and bdosin. How is there even an argument against paris
@@baseebird offtank is like equal, hitscan I would give edge to bird, profit better than sp9, both supports on paris better, i have no idea for tank role, i feel like the supp gap might be the difference maker
just remember when OW and OWL had to enforce 2-2-2 and hero bans because goats was the best comp. if that goats playstyle was forcefully nerfed and changed how competitive and the league played because it was so effective against all other comps, there is no question.
biggest problem with Speedily that NO ONE mentioned (applies to Venom and ATL in general) is how little proof of his flexibility there is . He is insane on Echo, but there is no guarantee she will be meta when he even plays, same goes for Venom, very cracked Tracer, but thats it. Speedily is a two trick, and his second best hero is no longer going to be a DPS in OW2. Nero isn't going to outshine on Tracer or Echo compared to Venom and Speedily, but he has far proven his flexibility on multiple heroes.
Speedily plays every flex dps. He was the best flex dps in NA before echo even came out. He's a top mei, genji, decent pharah, and decent hanzo. Idk about venom but his hanzo and ashe goes hard in ranked but thats ranked
Custa’s take on meta gaps for the shock while praising the dragons like they didn’t get pounded so hard on rush they had to reinvent the wheel (albeit successfully) just bothers me for some reason.
2021 dragons would not beat 2020 shock in any other meta than ball meta, other than MAYBE goats. 2020 Shock was the GOAT roster of OW1 hog and ball torture, double shield, hook and pull, rush, brawl, dive I favor shock in. Ball dive is the only definitive one and goats is impossible to predict
so shock win in, goats, brawl, double shield, and maybe a dive winston, but they aren’t the best team? shanghai really just seems like a ball one trick
First of all, Fate has a top notch Orisa. Folks seem to keep on forgetting that. Secondly, the Dragons have to have the advantage in any sort of combination featuring Sombra/Tracer/Zenyatta/Lucio comp. Plus Fleta can diff anyone on the Shock with Pharah and/or Echo.
let avast host every week if it means we get a non-checked out host. i love brenshow as much as i loved kicked tripod but the switch to avast and avrl hosting has energized both pods
@@magicsasu1532 yeah man...thats exactly the only difference to the roster this last year and Dragons won, arguably off of Fate doing exactly that. Being flexible and smart.
2020 Shock vs 2021 Shanghai is such a tossup, and very meta dependent. Basically any meta where Fate can play Ball will go to Shanghai, and Ball can almost always be picked. Same goes for Lip being able to play Sombra reliably. But outside of that, most comps would go to Shock, since the 2020 Shock was extremely versatile and great on a variety of comps and playstyles. Any meta where Widow/Ashe are central is a Shock win, cuz of 2020 ANS. Winston meta goes to Shock too since Smurf and Striker were the best at the time at those. Orisa also a lost cause.. Any meta where Rein or Hog is involved would be self-explanatory. And Rascal was dangerous on Mei, so any meta where one might see her goes to Shock too. People sometimes either forget or underestimate just how strong the Shock squad was in 2020. Almost everyone was considered the best, or runner-up for being the best at their role. Personally, my money on Shock
2018 spitfire will forever be the most overrated overwatch team ever, they got insanely lucky with the perfect meta switch for them, and it was not a good meta, teams were just throwing stuff all over.
100% agreed, im not an eternal fan but i think that 2020 paris shouldve won over them. If you were to somehow travel through time and get both teams to verse each other paris would win
@@baseebird nah fundamentally the game has evolved so much from 2018 to 2020 that i think any team in 2020/2021 would be able to beat even London 2018. Except for maybe 2021 valiant. If you're doing it off of the bracket thing idk i can see how you would put london over paris (imo i would still put paris over them) but if you were to somehow able to make them verse each other Paris would win
shock would win in 70% of the metas and only contest would be winston dive and ball dive but people something not brought up here is that yeah the problem is sombra but ans AND rascal were both incredible sombras and in the top 5 of sombras, yeah im sure the ball comp shanghai would dominate but for winston its really debatable and every other comp like summer showdown genji, double shield spam, bastion, double shield rush, zombie comp, rein rush and goats shock would win
I would personally put eternal over london, but i guess thats just me. If we were to somehow pit those two teams against each other (in some kind of time travel shenanigans) eternal would win im pretty sure, they'd be the better team
What’s you’re reasoning??? London had way more flexibility… the mt diff is pretty big 2018 Gesture was arguably the best tank in the league and Profit Birdring>>> Sp9rkle Xzi they can play anything double hitscan and double projectile as well
@@baseebird like i mentioned in my other reply the game has drastically changed over even just the 2 years between the two teams. Heck even Titans 2021 could possibly beat London imo (altho that would b closer)
@@NaruBrilu it’s peak vs peak not a team playing a different stage of the game with you’re reasoning 2021 dragons would win because they play the latest version of the game that’s just wrong…. It’s peak vs peak of each team history of winning/dominance
@@baseebird ya but overwatch is a team based game. The strategies and how ppl fundamentally play the game now is way different than in the inaugural season. It was more individualistic and the team aspect of the game now has evolved so much
Maybe not in a mirror but i think the 2021 dragons are so big brained they'd find a way around the problem. And Lip Sombra could shred the Shock. Shock struggled against Houston when they switched to Sombra style play. How would they fair against Lip?
coluge is every bit the tank player that reiner is. an argument can be made that he is the number 1 na contenders talent and was the best player on the original american tornado. quite possible the shock just upgraded.
Custa saying supers isn't a 2 trick despite only playing 2 heros exceptionally is so dumb you can't just say his other heros are good if we never see them
I mean. He has played Orisa multiple maps and Ball and Winston. They all look very serviceable. But why have serviceable when you could have Smurf pounding on Winston and Orisa? You wouldn't.
I remember there was a screen shot on Reddit of all the comps played by the Dragons in the 2021 Grand Finals. They played nearly every comp imaginable. The Shock are my go-to team, but the 2021 Dragons nudge slightly above them imo
2020 fusion over 2018 nyxl is EGREGIOUS, I know everyone was better in 2020 than 2018, but NYXL won HALF the stage titles possible to win in season 1, Fusion won ZERO, whilst playing all those tournaments against only half the league (cos of the region divide). God help us all.
If 5v5 and playing tank in that environment is so much fun and fresh as Blizzard tries to tell us, then there is no way Super would have quitted. And that's what really worries me. Also I think that placing Dragons 2021 that high is silly. I even would go so far that both SF lineups beat that. For me 2021 was somehow a rigged season anyways... we more or less started with sombra echo ball and we ended there. That was the only season where it felt like Blizzard did not tried to change the meta at all. There is even a funny statement from Super on that where he said they want Dragons to win by balancing that way. (around the time where they nerf/buffed ball) But anyway gave us a nice Echo skin.
Probably because 4 years of 8 hour scrims followed by 6 hours streams 5 or 6 days out of the week during the regular season as not only the captain of your team but also the face of the league eventually mentally burns you out far beyond any point where even the greatest game to ever be made can fully repair your mental health to the point where you can give competing your 1000% effort once again. You don't have to be an expert on mental health to grasp that concept.
2019 shock robbed. Also avast was technically right. 2020 shock goats is the same as 2019 because sinatraa left part way through the season along with architect etc
I never really comment on overwatch league teams and the switches they made but for over a year I think moth shouldn’t have switched off San Francisco shock because he was so important to their team and now super has left. I really don’t know what separates them as much from middle teams now. Moth and super were such a core to their achievements
Hot takes incoming just because I think the Shock were underrated against the Dragons. 2019 Shock is the best rush and goats comp team to ever touch the game. If they played the 2021 Dragons on goats I take Shock 8/10 times. Any other meta loses. The comparison Custa was trying to make was absolute slander. Dragons get diffed across the board in goats. 2020 Shock were, HOT take, the better, if not the best, double shield team to play the game. Hottest takes: 2019 Shock have the potential to beat 2021 Dragons on double bubble due to tank and Tracer diffs. 2020 Shock could beat the 2021 Dragons on classic dive. The only comp the Dragons take a clear win against both teams is anything involving ball in a mirror.
Just a question, why are we always going back in time to play their preferred comps (GOATs/double shields/ZaryaHog) and not bring the earlier season teams to play the comp we have in the 2021 season (Zombie/Ball/Brawl). Surely the 2021SHD would win. imo
@@Chain69killeR7 Like I said I don’t see the Shock winning in a ball v ball matchup. But in most of the other comps ran in the history of the game they have a legit shot imo.
@@drewjacobs4845 2021 Dragon also inconceivable strong on double shields . 2020 Dragon with Fearless will crash Shock in any Winston comp mirror match and get rival on rein rush.
2021 Dragons were also super good on other comps as well. Just because they were the best at Ball doesn't mean they were bad on other comps. Dive I think Dragons would win purely because Lip Sombra, LJG Lucio would put in more work. Fate's Winston is actually quite good or he could play Ball instead. Fleta is a cracked Tracer and is one of only like 2..3 maybe current Tracer's in league I'd trust containing Striker. Double Shield Dragons would win, Void is a God on Sigma, and Fate is known to have a great Orisa. Fleta and Lip could once again hold their own. But the main reason I'd favor Dragons in many matches is their thought process and in game adaptations. Like we saw it time and time again this last season, Dragons would literally learn and just improve map to map against opponents. I haven't really seen too many teams do it like they did.
Violet vs izyaki=violet Moth vs leejaygin= Moth Choi vs void= very close void Super & Smurf vs fate outside of ball=Super & Smurf Striker & Rascal vs Fleta= Striker & Rascal Ans vs Lip = not sombra Ans sombra lip My opinion pls dont kill me
@@petrnovak4846 Idk choi and void were very close for me i cant disagree with you on either take as I think Moth played the all supports other then brig better then lee
2021Leejeagon VS Moth = 2021Leejeagon on every hero 2021Izayaki VS Violet outside Bap = 2021Izayaki 2021FLIP VS any 2020 SHOCK DPS combination outside double sniper and sniper tracer = 2021FLIP Choi vs Void is petty equal for me Also you can't say Super & Smurf better then Fate that easily because you can't play they same time
@@娄词超 Your not wrong but I prefer moth style of play to leegaygon moth and izyaki function very similarly in my opinion as the cool calm support to the bloodthirsty nature of violet and leejaygon also IZYAKI DOES NOT have a BETTER ZEN the violet r u dumb def ana but thats why you have twilight and yeah Shock do need to sub in players but fuk they won 2 championships also FATE is overrated overrated NOT BAD as fuk he has a amazing ball and is very consistent on other tanks but outside of ball hes not going to take over a match he doesn't need to cuz he has Fleta & LIp point is outside of ball comp sombra comps shock win
There's a Huge problem with the "In the GOATS Meta argument". That era continued until Stage 3 2019, and by then, it was countered by the SHD with Triple DPS. So in actuality, the best team, at the End of the GOATS era...was actually the 2019 Shanghai Dragons, who beat Every team that used GOATS....by playing Triple DPS.
Almost every player believes that given not much time the shanghai comp would be countered, and shock would again dominate. Also teams knew 2/2/2 was coming and were practicing goats less, whereas shanghai practicing DPS for their comp wasn't an issue.
@@adamcorrigan8588 and that’s fine. That’s how new metas are born. GOATS and Triple Tank metas were designed to counter dive comps. And Both times in OW history, it was triple DPS that countered these comps. It always took time because of the high difficulty floor and ceiling needed to execute triple dps. Also, people had Just started getting used to Sombra as a counter to Goats as well. Not to mention that lip was redefining how to use Sombra as a hyper aggressive flanker/assassin. Goats wouldn’t survive today because of how dangerous the combination of Echo/Tracer and Sombra would be against that comp.
@@adamcorrigan8588 um...Sigma wasn't the crucial piece to Goats....Brigitte was. And she was repeatedly nerfed until she no longer had the rapid healing and aoe restoration and SHIELD application she used to. By the end of Stage 3 2019, Brigitte's aoe healing was enough to counter the spread damage of triple DPS. Adding Sigma into the mix wouldn't solve the Sombra/Echo problem either. The thing about GOATS was its ease of use, i.e. its low skill floor. But Triple DPS had a high skill Ceiling. It's the same reason why Atlanta Reign, despite 1 tricking Brawl, went to the Grand Finals in 2021, yet lost to Shanghai Dragons. The best 2 teams at that time were Dallas and SHD, and Dallas were BETTER at Brawl than even Atlanta. The problem was that Dallas wanted to try practicing Ball comps, which had a high ceiling than Brawl did, but also a higher floor as well. Atlanta beat Dallas with the 'easier' comp to use, but ultimately lost to Shanghai, since SHD used the comp with the highest Ceiling.
@@dmar3651 practically every single pro thinks goats would absolutely dominate still. Echo does nothing and sombra goats is still goats. Triple dps would still lose. That match was also crazy close and people had stopped focusing on goats. Sigma and bap just give goats more flexibility
Im surprised they didn’t even mention 2019 Sinatraa in the argument against 2021 Dragons. THE MVP OF 2019!! Custa even said he’d take Lip on zarya without mentioning Sinatraa once in the whole conversation
One of my favorite overwatch clips of all time was when the Shock reverse sweeped the Justice in the playoffs and hearing super scream "I fucking told you we were gonna reverse sweep this shit" there was so much passion and emotion from him in that moment
Not even a minute into the episode and I'm already wondering if Bren's nan is the Queen.
Haha
he knows too much....
Avast did a very good job of hosting - was a nice change up
NO WAY THATS MY BRACKET!!! Thank y’all for using it! I swear, i’ll post the championship tonight 😂
Best April fool's joke was the Washington's. Was actually funny and well done
I actually laughed out loud 😂
What was it?
@@jwpogue they worked with Halo to make it seem that decay, mag, and assassin might be leaving or something, and then did like an announcement where they were making a kpop band. I think they did some photoshoot work for it too
@@jwpogue They got Halo to post a tweet saying that he had been hearing "interesting noises coming from the Justice surrounding Decay, Assassin and Mag" a day before April Fool's Day. This alone was quite funny because of the possible sexual meaning to it. Justice on April 1st then posted a tweet, which we were all expecting because of the Halo leak, saying that they were saying goodbye to Decay, Assassin and Mag because they had decided to pursue a career in Kpop. It was such a funny twist at the time and being the first April Fool's joke of the day (IIRC), it managed to fool me for a good 5 seconds.
@@lucas411_ hahaha incedible
Emotions aren’t cringe - Reinforce
Based.
The prank of announcing speedily on April 1st is that everyone is questioning if it's real. Actually a pretty good prank if you ask me
I know super leaving doesn't mean ow2 will be bad, but it does worry me. I just found super to be one of the most dedicated ow players so with him gone, a major face of owl is gone
veryBased
True, also like can you blame ppl for thinking maybe that means he didnt like ow2 or thought it was bad maybe. Considering he said he wouldnt retire, and then owl players finally get access to ow2 for scrims and then like a week later he's like nah im retiring lol
I'd love to see Super return for some OWL community role or casting/hosting etc. He has the charisma and by god the knowledge and experience, and he is loved by so many players and respected within the pro scene.
@@NaruBrilu I have no idea why people want so desperately for this game to be bad that they're willing to ignore Super's very clear message about the deterioration of his mental health through the insane schedule that streaming and scrimming demands. I can absolutely blame people.
for me it is a clear sign that at least tank gameplay will be very different and not in a good way if you liked tank before.
This was one of the best episodes so far, Avast is such a great host.
Imma be honest, I'm more excited about the shock heading into this season than i have been since the 2018 season. Been a fan since then and as a fan of meat sports I love being able to see a team take the ups and downs and figure it out. They will be good, but please people, please don't scream and shout at the team if they struggle.
meat sports lmao
@@Hydravine "If the team struggles, please don't beat their meat".
Oh they will scream and shout at them if they struggle lol A lot of Shock fans get super pissy if they don't perform up to the standards of winning two championships. It's completely unfair and I feel bad for the Shock players to have just so many "fans" like that.
EDIT: Like the amount of shit fdgod and Glister got whenever the Shock weren't doing well last season was really nasty to see.
Really? This is the lowest I've ever been on the Shock. It's literally only Proper and Viol2t that I'm excited to see play now. Praying Crusty is able to work magic again.
Much love for your use of meat sports though. I don't watch meat sports except MMA but I love that term so much.
Avast GOAT PlatChat host after 1 host.
I’m not even a reign fan but I am beyond excited to see Speedily in the league
void on zarya, lip on sombra, sombra goats ez
So i counted. There's only 17 players from season 1 that played all 4 seasons pretty much, left in the league (this does however include Tobi, Jake and Fearless. As even if they weren't playing or aren't, for Tobi and Jake, they are still heavily involved in the league). The season 1 Philly squad has the most people left in the league. Was curious because of Super retiring.
Custa really said Chengdu didn’t win a map in playoffs? Chengdu was the only team to beat Atlanta besides Shanghai
And thus, owl’s fate was sealed
Avast actually did a great job!
Holy piss those colluge behaviors were tame in comparison to the rumors. Sure, the stuff he was confirmed to have done is shitty, but man idk why this conversation would even be happening if that’s all he did.
yeah dude imagine being blacklisted from a career because you made one edgy joke and boosted because the semi-pro scene was so untenable financially (which several OWL players did before OWL) and getting your name dragged through the mud for 4 years. Mob mentality is crazy.
if i was owl skill level id boost people for money
@@yoshirox4eva I think "one edgy joke" is a bit of a simplification. He had a reputation for toxicity and it didn't help he often was surrounded by toxic people. it's unfortunate the stuff others did was pinned on him, but luckily it seems to have largely been cleared up. I think it's good to see him get a chance in OWL but it's not like much of what gave him a bad reputation weren't his own actions.
Best podcast crew ever
2020 - I feel like Shock v Dragons was the match we should've had in the finals but the Hog meta changed that in favour of Seoul's playstyle. And I would've loved to have seen the last match in the 2021 Finals to have been between Dragons and Fuel again as I feel Fuel could've adapted better than Reign even after their glorious run.
2022 Reign looking pretty sick though.
I think I recall Moon saying that his team thought Gladiators as a whole actually were the scarier team at the time of the championship. And I think that's very understandable. Even if story wise with Fearless being on Dragons formerly, it Would have been cool to see him in the finals. But if you wanted Moon's 2 cents on who they didn't want to play in finals necessairly.
@@CrazeeAdam Dragon as whole never say who is their biggest competitor in play off and they shouldn't really do that ,every player and coach could have different opinion but their clearly didn't pay much more attention for one team than other because they only want to win it all.
@@CrazeeAdam I had to go back and look at what happened to the Glads, it was a tough break going up against Atlanta in that run cause this was arguable Glads best year yet. The team this year looks pretty dangerous too as long as the new pieces to the roster get to play at their best.
Shanghai beat Seoul in that hog meta a few weeks before final 4 they should of easily rolled them in a rematch considering in the hog matchup it wasn’t close the first time they had their chances even if the meta was bad for them they lost 2 close 3-2 games
The hypothetical over the Titans staying together they also had Fissure for the Winston instead of Bumper
Avast is an amazing host!!
2021 Dragons, never have I seen a team so obviously an entire tier above the rest, (and 2021 had true championship calibre teams, Dallas, Glads, Atlanta, Chengdu). In a meta where there was a lot of viability too, without crazy wild cards (hog). They truly embodied that Zen quote, defeat was quite literally an impossibility in their minds, and imo not a single team in OW1 history would have stood a chance.
This may be a hot take but i think shock 2019 could beat them. Or at the very least be up to their level.
2019 titans could beat them too, but only in goats meta lol
this is such a hard dragons fan copium comment lmao you are on some severe doses
Out of all the teams... 2018 Glads. As a Glads fan I'm sad that was our 1 team picked
Yeah, not sure why they went with 2018 Glads team other than that they just hate the Glads. Putting them against 2021 Dragons seals it for me that whomever made this can get fucked. Obviously a Dragons or Shock fan that deliberately made the bracket to see a Dragons v Dragons or a Shock v Shock final. PlatChat using this as filler content to have a full episode 🙄
Fellow Glads fan here. 2021 would have gotten us deeper in!
Avast's point about how the 2019 Vancouver were playing the Washington Justice of 2019... except Vancouver has never actually beaten the Justice... (Someone please fact check this, but I think this is correct)
You are right.that is the first time Vancouver been 4-0.
You are correct. Titans have never won against the Justice. They never actually played during Goats, Justice got the 4-0 during Stage 4, and then Titans imploded before they played again.
1:35:21 well being purely a competitor isn't the worst in itself, being well-rounded as an individual or well-rounded from a business perspective are two different things
One thing I've noticed is the Shock likes to recruit... players that are let's call them "ethical/moral projects"
They take people on known for problematic or toxic behavior and try to reform them (Sinatraa, Viole3t etc). I wonder if that is deliberate or not. With Coluge (and I think maybe Prosper) that seems to have continued.
I wonder if Crusty is trying to do some greater work here on how elite gamers behave, and if so I hope he's successful.
Real darkwatch LOL
I mean they can't be as bad as having 2 child predators for 2 years of your organization (looking at Boston)
@@CrazeeAdam True enough for REAL. But it's a difference circumstance as they keep these people to mentor (obviously you get rid of the creeps)
Josh your moustache kinda looks like it was sharpied on. Love the look
2020 Dragons would win against 2019 Titans with a triple DPS comp if there was no role lock.
Reinforce’s love for rascal is real
pretty sure chengdu won like 5 maps in playoffs in s4, not sure why custa thought they didn't win any. they won a close game against atlanta, got swept by dallas, and narrowly lost to shock in losers
Leave it to platchat to make a march madness team bracket starting the beginning of april
😂
We're going to see such polar opposite tales with Speedily and Seicoe. I think these guys are both elites coming from Contenders, but we'll be singing Speedily's praises throughout this year as I suspect Atlanta will hit some scattered highs, while Seicoe gets relegated to honorable mentions being on a losing team.
Seicoe isn't even comparable to speedily lmao.
Its been nearly a year since this prediction
2020 dragons were better than 2020 shock they just got screwed with the hog meta
yeah i agree with this, i swear to god if OWL has another huge balance patch before season playoffs ill be so mad
They did beat Seoul in the hog meta a few weeks before they lost to them they could of closed it out again they just fell short
2018 Boston, 2019 Dragons, 2021 Gladiators should be in that bracket, might have missed a couple of others.
I honestly think 2021 Hunters would be really good at goats if it was the meta, Nisha Lucio (servicable), Yveltal Brig, Mmonk zen, Lateyoung Zar, Elsa Dva, Rein IDK, maybe Ameng.
Decent but not great
how are 2018 glads in the bracket over 2021 glads or 2020 seoul huh
Don’t know that glads team was mid without fissure
10/10 outro from Avast
2021 dragons ball comp is untouchable. I also think they embody the evolution of OW1 to having 6 players that u dont have to swap out that can play any meta at a high level
I'll play devil's advocate for 2018 NYXL. They won multiple stages. And went to all 4 stage finals. They are incredibly cracked imo. Maybe more than Philly was in 2020. That's how I would compare. NYXL just didn't miss.
Also you could argue that Spitfire only dipped in quality in 2018 because Birdring hurt his wrist and was out for an entire stage. Peak Spitfire is by far better than 2020 Eternal
On the 2021 Dragons. I do think you put them in any era pretty much and they would smash almost any team. Not only are they all supremely talented. They are next level big brained. Not saying all other teams are dumb but in matches you could literally see them adapting. Even if they lose a map or somehow 2, they come back with the optimal solution and destroy their opponents.
the closest thing the league has had to super, charisma and stream wise has been apply or XQC, however they aren’t in OWL anymore so the next best thing is SPACE
It's hard to be a fan of any team because players change every 3 games, but Shock was different. I've been a fan because of Super and I have no idea who I'm going to root for now.
Dragons, they ego picked Shock and 3-0ed them. That’s a Superesque move and the closest we’ll have to it now ;(
I am supporting Seoul. I love Smurf
@@oh.camille I was thinking about that too, maybe do it for Smurf.
Eh. I would say teams do do this. But some teams do stick with key players for long stretches. Outlaws (with Danteh and Jake), Dragons have had the same roster for 3 years now pretty much, Seoul have kept Profit, Fits and Creative for 3 years and Tobi is on the roster again, Philly have hung onto and Carpe, Dallas with Doha, so there are some examples. Now Violet is the only one left on Shock though yeah :(
For 2018 london also do the vancouver 2019 thing and look how they would be now. I mean profit, birdring, gesture, fury, closer/nus and bdosin. How is there even an argument against paris
Paris did have sparkle, xzi, hanbin, fielder, fdgod, benbest like thats pretty good
@@danielwegrzyn6155 I mean what role would you say Paris is better at??? I would only say Main support
@@baseebird offtank is like equal, hitscan I would give edge to bird, profit better than sp9, both supports on paris better, i have no idea for tank role, i feel like the supp gap might be the difference maker
@@danielwegrzyn6155 Gesture in 2018 is better then Benbest 2020 and Fury peak in 2018 better then 2021 Hanbin
@@baseebird personally i would say 2018 players are not as good as 2021 players just bc the game has evolved so much
Spelled super with capital letter 😤😤😤
39:55 how is it 'painfully awful'? Everyone *is* a comedian
I'm wondering if 2020 Guangzhou would've stood a better chance than 2021 Reign or 2018 Glads
just remember when OW and OWL had to enforce 2-2-2 and hero bans because goats was the best comp. if that goats playstyle was forcefully nerfed and changed how competitive and the league played because it was so effective against all other comps, there is no question.
I really missed the Kurt “laugh track”
Please god never stop lmao
biggest problem with Speedily that NO ONE mentioned (applies to Venom and ATL in general) is how little proof of his flexibility there is . He is insane on Echo, but there is no guarantee she will be meta when he even plays, same goes for Venom, very cracked Tracer, but thats it. Speedily is a two trick, and his second best hero is no longer going to be a DPS in OW2. Nero isn't going to outshine on Tracer or Echo compared to Venom and Speedily, but he has far proven his flexibility on multiple heroes.
Speedily plays every flex dps. He was the best flex dps in NA before echo even came out. He's a top mei, genji, decent pharah, and decent hanzo. Idk about venom but his hanzo and ashe goes hard in ranked but thats ranked
Today I Learned that Custa blow drys his hair. The Yottachad is real.
Jonathan's take on Paris 2020 is peak pepega
Custa’s take on meta gaps for the shock while praising the dragons like they didn’t get pounded so hard on rush they had to reinvent the wheel (albeit successfully) just bothers me for some reason.
avast doesnt hav to make hunters fans mad; the hunters themselves make us mad most of the time already
2021 dragons would not beat 2020 shock in any other meta than ball meta, other than MAYBE goats. 2020 Shock was the GOAT roster of OW1
hog and ball torture, double shield, hook and pull, rush, brawl, dive I favor shock in. Ball dive is the only definitive one and goats is impossible to predict
so shock win in, goats, brawl, double shield, and maybe a dive winston, but they aren’t the best team? shanghai really just seems like a ball one trick
First of all, Fate has a top notch Orisa. Folks seem to keep on forgetting that. Secondly, the Dragons have to have the advantage in any sort of combination featuring Sombra/Tracer/Zenyatta/Lucio comp. Plus Fleta can diff anyone on the Shock with Pharah and/or Echo.
the best teams of all time bracket should be based off which team you think would be the best on the paris and lunar colony maps. honest matches
i think super is going to back back either mid this reason or next year.
Who am I watching in OW2?
If he plays it, Seagull. If not: probably Super.
2020 shock rolls no diff, then Super streams after the match roasting LJG again
let avast host every week if it means we get a non-checked out host. i love brenshow as much as i loved kicked tripod but the switch to avast and avrl hosting has energized both pods
2020 Shock vs 2021 Dragons… am I wrong in thinking that’s basically the 2020 playoffs matchup that the Shock won?
The flexibility and leadership of Fate probably would have been helpful during the playoffs.
@@duckdudette nah man
That match in 2020 was 3-2, so is no that clear. If we have different game patch the result could be different .
@@magicsasu1532 yeah man...thats exactly the only difference to the roster this last year and Dragons won, arguably off of Fate doing exactly that. Being flexible and smart.
I feel like them putting 2018 Glads on there was just to troll us Glads fans...
If you did a face swap of Avast and Mr. X, how different do you all think the results would be?
Hear me out. The 2021 Dallas Fuel could actually have been the best GOATS comp.
2020 Shock vs 2021 Shanghai is such a tossup, and very meta dependent. Basically any meta where Fate can play Ball will go to Shanghai, and Ball can almost always be picked. Same goes for Lip being able to play Sombra reliably. But outside of that, most comps would go to Shock, since the 2020 Shock was extremely versatile and great on a variety of comps and playstyles.
Any meta where Widow/Ashe are central is a Shock win, cuz of 2020 ANS.
Winston meta goes to Shock too since Smurf and Striker were the best at the time at those. Orisa also a lost cause..
Any meta where Rein or Hog is involved would be self-explanatory.
And Rascal was dangerous on Mei, so any meta where one might see her goes to Shock too.
People sometimes either forget or underestimate just how strong the Shock squad was in 2020. Almost everyone was considered the best, or runner-up for being the best at their role.
Personally, my money on Shock
2018 spitfire will forever be the most overrated overwatch team ever, they got insanely lucky with the perfect meta switch for them, and it was not a good meta, teams were just throwing stuff all over.
100% agreed, im not an eternal fan but i think that 2020 paris shouldve won over them. If you were to somehow travel through time and get both teams to verse each other paris would win
They won a Stage and had a 8-2 stage 2 as well
@@NaruBrilu London is better individually at all roles except main support
@@baseebird nah fundamentally the game has evolved so much from 2018 to 2020 that i think any team in 2020/2021 would be able to beat even London 2018. Except for maybe 2021 valiant.
If you're doing it off of the bracket thing idk i can see how you would put london over paris (imo i would still put paris over them) but if you were to somehow able to make them verse each other Paris would win
@@NaruBrilu it’s peak vs peak London is individually better on most roles compared to
Paris
40:48 Shoutouts to my boy appearing even in the platchat-verse
Like para que Fernan lo vea 👍
Dafran is the reformed one
1:00:10 ?? Seoul was not on Chengdu’s level last year bruh
They were one of the few teams who won multiple games against them and one of their loses was a map 5
shock would win in 70% of the metas and only contest would be winston dive and ball dive but people something not brought up here is that yeah the problem is sombra but ans AND rascal were both incredible sombras and in the top 5 of sombras, yeah im sure the ball comp shanghai would dominate but for winston its really debatable and every other comp like summer showdown genji, double shield spam, bastion, double shield rush, zombie comp, rein rush and goats shock would win
I would personally put eternal over london, but i guess thats just me. If we were to somehow pit those two teams against each other (in some kind of time travel shenanigans) eternal would win im pretty sure, they'd be the better team
What’s you’re reasoning??? London had way more flexibility… the mt diff is pretty big 2018 Gesture was arguably the best tank in the league and Profit Birdring>>> Sp9rkle Xzi they can play anything double hitscan and double projectile as well
@@baseebird like i mentioned in my other reply the game has drastically changed over even just the 2 years between the two teams. Heck even Titans 2021 could possibly beat London imo (altho that would b closer)
@@NaruBrilu it’s peak vs peak not a team playing a different stage of the game with you’re reasoning 2021 dragons would win because they play the latest version of the game that’s just wrong…. It’s peak vs peak of each team history of winning/dominance
@@baseebird ya but overwatch is a team based game. The strategies and how ppl fundamentally play the game now is way different than in the inaugural season. It was more individualistic and the team aspect of the game now has evolved so much
If we take them on league form but it's a knockout bracket do wouldn't knockout performance be better
I will argue 2020 shock being better than 2021 dragons (and any other team) to my grave
im begging you please do the gladiators
Custa is a little silly on this one. Saying that 2021 Dragons could beat 2019 Shock at Goats is definitely silly.
Lip Zarya hopium
Maybe not in a mirror but i think the 2021 dragons are so big brained they'd find a way around the problem. And Lip Sombra could shred the Shock. Shock struggled against Houston when they switched to Sombra style play. How would they fair against Lip?
Why haven’t y’all done a goat (no role) ranking?
coluge is every bit the tank player that reiner is. an argument can be made that he is the number 1 na contenders talent and was the best player on the original american tornado. quite possible the shock just upgraded.
Custa saying supers isn't a 2 trick despite only playing 2 heros exceptionally is so dumb you can't just say his other heros are good if we never see them
Exactly his Winston stats were meh every year as well
I mean. He has played Orisa multiple maps and Ball and Winston. They all look very serviceable. But why have serviceable when you could have Smurf pounding on Winston and Orisa? You wouldn't.
I remember there was a screen shot on Reddit of all the comps played by the Dragons in the 2021 Grand Finals. They played nearly every comp imaginable.
The Shock are my go-to team, but the 2021 Dragons nudge slightly above them imo
Let's go Coluge!!
2020 fusion over 2018 nyxl is EGREGIOUS, I know everyone was better in 2020 than 2018, but NYXL won HALF the stage titles possible to win in season 1, Fusion won ZERO, whilst playing all those tournaments against only half the league (cos of the region divide). God help us all.
What must these episodes be like for Kurt filming an empty desk?
Anyone who doesn't play overwatch is actually probably going to watch timthetatman instead of super play ow2.
I still think Avast is in some sort of low key jail cell 🤔
Super had to do what’s best for himself but he screwed his team.
If 5v5 and playing tank in that environment is so much fun and fresh as Blizzard tries to tell us, then there is no way Super would have quitted. And that's what really worries me.
Also I think that placing Dragons 2021 that high is silly. I even would go so far that both SF lineups beat that. For me 2021 was somehow a rigged season anyways... we more or less started with sombra echo ball and we ended there. That was the only season where it felt like Blizzard did not tried to change the meta at all. There is even a funny statement from Super on that where he said they want Dragons to win by balancing that way. (around the time where they nerf/buffed ball) But anyway gave us a nice Echo skin.
I don't think you understand how mental health works and it shows.
@@Destinedhellfire so what makes you an expert on that topic then? make no argument just bark and judge other people, that really shows.
Probably because 4 years of 8 hour scrims followed by 6 hours streams 5 or 6 days out of the week during the regular season as not only the captain of your team but also the face of the league eventually mentally burns you out far beyond any point where even the greatest game to ever be made can fully repair your mental health to the point where you can give competing your 1000% effort once again.
You don't have to be an expert on mental health to grasp that concept.
GOATS BRACKET YET THE BEST GOAT TEAM DIDNT WIN
Avast ruining historical team power rankings yet again always voting for the newer team
2019 shock robbed. Also avast was technically right. 2020 shock goats is the same as 2019 because sinatraa left part way through the season along with architect etc
I never really comment on overwatch league teams and the switches they made but for over a year I think moth shouldn’t have switched off San Francisco shock because he was so important to their team and now super has left. I really don’t know what separates them as much from middle teams now. Moth and super were such a core to their achievements
2020 shock is the best OW1 team of all time. SFS is the best OW1 franchise of all time. no other opinion is valid.
Hot takes incoming just because I think the Shock were underrated against the Dragons.
2019 Shock is the best rush and goats comp team to ever touch the game. If they played the 2021 Dragons on goats I take Shock 8/10 times. Any other meta loses. The comparison Custa was trying to make was absolute slander. Dragons get diffed across the board in goats.
2020 Shock were, HOT take, the better, if not the best, double shield team to play the game.
Hottest takes:
2019 Shock have the potential to beat 2021 Dragons on double bubble due to tank and Tracer diffs.
2020 Shock could beat the 2021 Dragons on classic dive.
The only comp the Dragons take a clear win against both teams is anything involving ball in a mirror.
Just a question, why are we always going back in time to play their preferred comps (GOATs/double shields/ZaryaHog) and not bring the earlier season teams to play the comp we have in the 2021 season (Zombie/Ball/Brawl). Surely the 2021SHD would win. imo
@@Chain69killeR7 Like I said I don’t see the Shock winning in a ball v ball matchup. But in most of the other comps ran in the history of the game they have a legit shot imo.
@@drewjacobs4845 2021 Dragon also inconceivable strong on double shields . 2020 Dragon with Fearless will crash Shock in any Winston comp mirror match and get rival on rein rush.
2021 Dragons were also super good on other comps as well. Just because they were the best at Ball doesn't mean they were bad on other comps. Dive I think Dragons would win purely because Lip Sombra, LJG Lucio would put in more work. Fate's Winston is actually quite good or he could play Ball instead. Fleta is a cracked Tracer and is one of only like 2..3 maybe current Tracer's in league I'd trust containing Striker. Double Shield Dragons would win, Void is a God on Sigma, and Fate is known to have a great Orisa. Fleta and Lip could once again hold their own. But the main reason I'd favor Dragons in many matches is their thought process and in game adaptations. Like we saw it time and time again this last season, Dragons would literally learn and just improve map to map against opponents. I haven't really seen too many teams do it like they did.
Violet vs izyaki=violet
Moth vs leejaygin= Moth
Choi vs void= very close void
Super & Smurf vs fate outside of ball=Super & Smurf
Striker & Rascal vs Fleta= Striker & Rascal
Ans vs Lip = not sombra Ans sombra lip
My opinion pls dont kill me
Choi Is better than Void.
Leejaygon Is better than Moth. Moth isnt top tier Brig He didnt play Brig in Shock.
Lee did everysupport
@@petrnovak4846 Idk choi and void were very close for me i cant disagree with you on either take as I think Moth played the all supports other then brig better then lee
2021Leejeagon VS Moth = 2021Leejeagon on every hero
2021Izayaki VS Violet outside Bap = 2021Izayaki
2021FLIP VS any 2020 SHOCK DPS combination outside double sniper and sniper tracer = 2021FLIP
Choi vs Void is petty equal for me
Also you can't say Super & Smurf better then Fate that easily because you can't play they same time
@@娄词超 Your not wrong but I prefer moth style of play to leegaygon moth and izyaki function very similarly in my opinion as the cool calm support to the bloodthirsty nature of violet and leejaygon also IZYAKI DOES NOT have a BETTER ZEN the violet r u dumb def ana but thats why you have twilight and yeah Shock do need to sub in players but fuk they won 2 championships also FATE is overrated overrated NOT BAD as fuk he has a amazing ball and is very consistent on other tanks but outside of ball hes not going to take over a match he doesn't need to cuz he has Fleta & LIp point is outside of ball comp sombra comps shock win
mald
Coluge did nothing wrong.
There's a Huge problem with the "In the GOATS Meta argument".
That era continued until Stage 3 2019, and by then, it was countered by the SHD with Triple DPS.
So in actuality, the best team, at the End of the GOATS era...was actually the 2019 Shanghai Dragons, who beat Every team that used GOATS....by playing Triple DPS.
Almost every player believes that given not much time the shanghai comp would be countered, and shock would again dominate. Also teams knew 2/2/2 was coming and were practicing goats less, whereas shanghai practicing DPS for their comp wasn't an issue.
@@adamcorrigan8588 and that’s fine. That’s how new metas are born.
GOATS and Triple Tank metas were designed to counter dive comps.
And Both times in OW history, it was triple DPS that countered these comps.
It always took time because of the high difficulty floor and ceiling needed to execute triple dps.
Also, people had Just started getting used to Sombra as a counter to Goats as well.
Not to mention that lip was redefining how to use Sombra as a hyper aggressive flanker/assassin.
Goats wouldn’t survive today because of how dangerous the combination of Echo/Tracer and Sombra would be against that comp.
@@dmar3651 basically no pro player agrees with this. With sigma also viable, goats would overpower any other meta
@@adamcorrigan8588 um...Sigma wasn't the crucial piece to Goats....Brigitte was.
And she was repeatedly nerfed until she no longer had the rapid healing and aoe restoration and SHIELD application she used to.
By the end of Stage 3 2019, Brigitte's aoe healing was enough to counter the spread damage of triple DPS.
Adding Sigma into the mix wouldn't solve the Sombra/Echo problem either.
The thing about GOATS was its ease of use, i.e. its low skill floor.
But Triple DPS had a high skill Ceiling.
It's the same reason why Atlanta Reign, despite 1 tricking Brawl, went to the Grand Finals in 2021, yet lost to Shanghai Dragons.
The best 2 teams at that time were Dallas and SHD, and Dallas were BETTER at Brawl than even Atlanta. The problem was that Dallas wanted to try practicing Ball comps, which had a high ceiling than Brawl did, but also a higher floor as well.
Atlanta beat Dallas with the 'easier' comp to use, but ultimately lost to Shanghai, since SHD used the comp with the highest Ceiling.
@@dmar3651 practically every single pro thinks goats would absolutely dominate still. Echo does nothing and sombra goats is still goats.
Triple dps would still lose. That match was also crazy close and people had stopped focusing on goats.
Sigma and bap just give goats more flexibility
super played monkey during all of S2 when shock played monkey goats, and he still dominated
I can feel Kyle getting hurt there. Be nice guys! But NGL, Kyle interrupting Brett on the intro is kinda getting stale IMO
Im surprised they didn’t even mention 2019 Sinatraa in the argument against 2021 Dragons. THE MVP OF 2019!! Custa even said he’d take Lip on zarya without mentioning Sinatraa once in the whole conversation
Imagine picking dragons over 2019 shock. So biased.