Your advice is spot on and in line with my own experience. The angle of the cleats in relation to a neutral stance when walking or sitting dangling your legs versus when actually pedalling and applying power is also spot on for me. I find there is a marked difference between the two. Keep up the good work and I thoroughly enjoy watching your videos. Ciao.
aftar more than 15 years of road cycling and watching lots of videos regarding this subject i found this one.... must admit it is the best one ever.... bravo 👏👏
As someone who has seen every cleat position video on the internet i can say you did an outstanding job with this one. Just straight to the point and very well explained. Well done sir! Ps: 22.02.2023 apparently a new pinarello gets launched :D now or never Fede!
Thank you so much! I watched a lot of videos regarding cleat positioning, like on Bike Fit Tuesdays. The newer videos all recommend to put the cleats all the way back, but I wasn‘t convinced, yet. But your explaintaion made absolutely 100% sense and convinced me to put my cleats all the way back. Keep up the excellent work!
Woowwww, first video I see that does not use walking angle as a reference for your cleats and I agree 100%. My natural walk is toeing out. Thus, I tried setting up my cleats the same way; as a result, I can feel than I can’t engage the correct muscles and compromise my knees. Thus, sometime ago, I decided to put them straight and it has been fantastic… lot more power I can input. Also, noticed, as well as you mention, when I go harder, my foot naturally goes toeing in. Great video. Finally someone that make sense of the body and just not repeats what other nonsense videos say.
I've ridden my road bike for the past 6.5 years with SPD mountain bike pedals and shoes (I liked being and to walk "normal" 😁). Nothing wrong with that... I even got around to a solo century once. I am however making the switch over to proper road pedals and shoes as straps on the old shoes have failed. My Ultegra pedals arrived today and I've spent the last 3 hours watching videos, measuring, marking, overthinking, and looking for that moment of clarity and understanding. Then I came across your video which put a nice bow on everything, along with some very easy to understand technical information that really helped lock concepts in for me. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and experience! 👍
As usual, a thoughtful and well conceived visual essay. When I reached my mid-seventies I found that the usual (for me) middle position of the cleats was having a painful impact on my knees, so I moved the cleats to the very rear and even cut away the groove on the sole to allow the cleat to move farther back. Now in my 80s, I have returned to flat pedals so I can move my foot quite far forward on the pedal. No knee pain! Confirmation of the effectiveness of the forward positioning of the foot can be found by examining old photos; e.g., Ercole Baldini, in full flight, who, to my mind, had the most perfect position on the bike that I have ever seen. His foot position is quite far forward; if one examines his Legnano bike one can see how he has ‘shimmed forward’ his toe clips. Knees and power count on a Giro stage - the great ones know! ciao!
Very helpful indeed. I just bought Shimano SL cleats and pedals and watched all these professional explanations but after doing the set up It was crap and didn't feel comfortable at all. You make much more sense and I'm going to try this at hte weekend..... I currently have SPD cleats and pedals..... I went back to them after I could not get the SL cleats set up right! Thank you!
Federico, I must say this is a very good video - I have only just discovered your channel last week, and you have really motivated me to take this subject seriously - I have now adjusted my own cleats to the position you recommend, and I feel that I’m gaining at least 15% more effect - such a small adjustment with such a big improvement!! So, a big thanks to you and please let your nice videos coming in a steady stream 😉
Hello Tim, I really appreciate your comments and I'm very happy that the new position worked for you! I was surprised as well on how this affects the overall performance on the bike!
Really well put together video. Couldn't agree more. Very good points regarding looking like toe down but actually perhaps just leaning fowards. Thanks Federico.
I'm happy to find your video. You have very good insight about this. I agree that one should check the foot while loaded rather than when dangling on the edge of the table or in a relaxed position. This is also what I've been doing although it is not what bike fitters on yt advised.
Great exercise on the stairs to determine the correct axle position. I am already around 1 cm behind the axle but will do the stair test to see how close I am. Thank you for sharing this tip!
Fernando, I love especially how you landed the plane at the end. I also use yellow for since I've started and believe since I'm not racing but want performance and comfort you gave the best scenarios. The adjustment I feel is exactly how you described. When I first started I went thru 4 pairs of shoes, now on my 5th for best performance and comfort. My feet are the other half of my connection to my bike and I knew before I even started that it would be very important to me. What I didn't know is which cleat system to use. Ended up with the Shimano sm sh pedals and believe it's been best for me. I thought I was researching too much but I know now how important it is to be steady, comfortable and having the aggressive posture when necessary. Thank you and I will subscribe!! From Napa/ Solano CA areas my friend, my Paisano! My father from the Campo Basso / Puglia regions!! Take care!
Nice job discussing this challenging topic. Finding the most efficient and powerful cleat position takes time and can be a bit frustrating when the shoe/cleat/pedal position just doesn’t feel right. Your video should be helpful to new/novice riders in understanding this important topic and concepts. Bravo!!
Thank you! You might need to check your saddle height as well if the end position is very different in order to maintain the strong engagement from the ankle. Need to do another video on that 😀
I agree, I found gains from my cleats being all the way back too, the only downfall is I get toe overlap but I have size 13us shoes. Also a lot of float has been good for my knees, never had any problems. 🤙
Your advise makes more sense to me because after following the advise I followed from youtube none worked against the discomfort I was feeling when riding and I decieded to move the cleates backward and my problem is now solved , I am not getting cramped toes anymore so I say to you good advise.
I am very happy for you! It's not easy to navigate through all the advice on TH-cam, I focused on BikeFit James on Cade Media and Neill Stanbury with RCA/ Cam Nicholls and it worked.
What a great explanation and greatest conclusions. Every word here passed my mind when im fitting rider in my house as an amature fitter. That is a perfect explanation! Just, consider the stance width deeper if the rider suffer fron knee pains. Too wide stance or too nerrow stance for the specific rider can result in knee pains, and you can adjust it a bit with the cleats posituon. Again, What a great explanation Sir! Oz 🇮🇱
Bravo Frederico! i liked the way you took the great videos on youtube about the topic and translated better to real use and for the mortals :) . Grazzie
@@fede1275 I think so too. I just got a new Shimano but SPD( for me walking on the shoe is a must :)) . First ride I felt my toes numb and slight pressure/vibration on the bottom of the foot. Do I also feel any pressure on SL clits?
@@Gledii I never used mtb pedals, but I guess you can adjust them in the same way. I felt pressure on the toes and cramping on the calves when I had the cleats too far forward
@@fede1275 by pushing back the clit solved the numbness immediatly. the only thing i noticed is that when climbing standing, it feels weird, it feels like the weight should be more on the tip of the foot...
@@Gledii I believe you can get more power when you stand on the pedals if you keep the ankle locked and push with your body weight. The idea that you could use the calves for more leverage with the cleats forward to me is not efficient
I like a lot of these tips you have given. With the stairs and the tape. I think it will give people more of a sensory and visual feel for their cleats.
Federico, your perspective on body position and preferred foot position on the pedals was super, super helpful. I was wondering why my blue Shimano cleats felt right at times and constrained at other times. I started to play with various positions on my trainer and you were correct. When upright on the tops and pedaling easy my feet wanted to angle out slightly. But when on the hoods and more aggressive my feet became neutral. I will replace these blue cleats with yellows when the time comes. Thanks!
This is where I put my cleats from day one! Just bought some more shoes from Italy, which are not available in the UK! Carbon Vittoria Revolve, and previous carbon Vittoria Velar, which stand-out, and are 100% Italian-made! Although I did not buy directly from Vittoria, Revolve were nearly £400(with customs!), with Velar in sale from Netherlands being in sale with 50 Euros off, and no customs! I have been after authentic Pantini cycling kit from 1995-1998, with nearly everything found(although I take biggest sizes!). I recently found last two Santini items from 1998(mitts & socks), and lenses for Briko Zen sunglasses! Socks and mitts were from same seller in Bologna who got hold of tons of Pantani kitt. Socks were smaller size, but just had made bigger, with another old pair.
Loved the demonstration on the stairs. For me, leaving the in/out angle to where your feet "want" to go is best. The center of the swing should correspond with your "foot prints in the snow".
I have short femurs. I actually run the cleat as far forward as possible. I tried using the cleats all the way back, as well as somewhere in-between, but it never felt right for me. I know it generates more power while seated having a cleat position rearward, but I prefer scaling that power toward being out of the saddle.
Interesting, what was the issue when you tried the rear position? I had to lower the saddle a bit to adjust to a different ankle angle. A forward position was giving me calf strain and toes discomfort.
@Federico Ciampella I didn't have any issue, persay, but it just didn't feel like I was unleashing my power potential when sprinting. I can ride with a rearward cleat position fine. It just doesn't feel as powerful or responsive when I'm out of the saddle. I have large feet for my height. That's another contributing factor. It's all relative, really. You're right: when the cleats are moved to the rear, you need to compensate by lowering the saddle height.
Great video Federico. Totally agree that the hanging stance will produce a different cleat rotation angle than a foot under power. We've studied thousands of cyclists and come up with a simple tool that maps the stance in a jump test with their neutral position, under power, on the bike. There are not a lot of cyclists that end up with a toe-in position. You can simply have a look at video from the last TdF so see that most riders (including winner Tadej Pogačar) have a definite toe-out tendency. Setting a toe-in position for a rider who has a natural toe-out tendency under power would definitely load the knee, leading possibly to a range of problems, including patellofemoral pain, or patellar tendonitis, to name a few.
Man, i love your video. It's complete and clear. All those bikefitters must be extremly good but their videos are too long and not organized as yours (thanks for the chapters)
Thank you for this. I am particularly interested in isolating ankle movement on long rides to reduce unnecessary fatigue and as such increase endurance as a byproduct of rearward cleat placement. It does sound like a win win situation, but the reality is that acceleration does suffer slightly. This is simply because of proportionally less muscular engagement when partially isolating ankle articulation and subsequent reduced power application to the pedals. A small price to pay, unless you are a professional sprinter. For me the carbon fiber sole was a big game changer. Not because of weight, but because of being completely rigid and stiff, and thus allowing complete distribution of power transfer from the entire area of the base of the feet. That brings me to alignment of the entire leg, from hip to pedal so as to alleviate possible misalignment and overuse injuries of all the joints. It is an unfortunate fact that misalignment here is the cause of many debilitating long term injuries directly due too badly positioned cleats. I sincerely hope my 2 cents was of value. Keep riding
Interesting points: yes, I do believe less ankle movement returns both power and less fatigue. Imagine climbing 1000s of steps and on each one also involving calf muscles to lift you up. I am not sure that acceleration suffers, as you can really push hard with quads and glutes on the pedals with rearward cleats. Maybe less muscular engagement in terms of the number of them, but you use more power from the stronger muscles. This in conjunction with the correct saddle height of course. Carbon soles also are needed as other materials go soft over time and the movement degrades.
Federico, I understand what you mean about the yellows having more movement for when you’re in different positions but for me I get enough float with the middle cleat.. the red one. Also, it’s a little bit easier to snap out of your peddles when you’re stopping which is more of a personal thing I guess. Very good video. I did ride on yellows for many years so I do understand about the benefits of a lot of float. Also, I agree the original Shimano‘s are terrible. I use an aftermarket brand that is every bit is good, but lasts a long time and doesn’t deform like Shimano brand does
I run my cleats slammed rearwards and it keeps any hotspot or numbness away. My Bonts have a rearward cleat position compared to my previous Northwaves also… I have found the Decathlon cleats are longer lasting than genuine Shimano ones interestingly enough….
Anche io dopo aver applicato i consigli di Neill Stanbury sulla regolazione delle tacchette mi sono trovato decisamente meglio, il negoziante da cui avevo acquistato la mia prima bici da corsa(sono un principiante) mi aveva regolato le tacchette tutte in avanti. Molto interessante la parte in cui parli dell'angolazione delle tacchette! Saluti dall'Italia.
Question about cleat angle (aka toe in, toe out or center): What is the best position when considering human anatomy? In other words what is the best position to not harm your joints, bones, ligaments, tendons, nerves, etc.??
I have always used yellow Shimano cleats as I believe the float helps a lot with joints longevity and does not detract power. When I push harder I go low and slightly more toe in, when relaxed I am slightly toe out. That is why I try to set the angle in the middle of the float, so I have leeway both ways. When I ride I try to concentrate to see if I have the same movement both sides and adjust. You don't want to push at the end of the float in one direction, it would be like riding fixed cleats. I am not sure your walking stance is a good indicator, more like when you lean forward in a pushing position.
I have cleats mounted under my 5th, or slightly below it (maybe 2mm), and it's fine. I recently learned about another method called midfoot, but it's rather strange and difficult to set 🙂.
I believe that as long as you can feel the pressure slight behind the ball of the foot you will be okay. I had problems when the cleats were too far forward and the pressure was going through the front and the toes.
Federico, thanks for the excellent video. Can you comment on some Shimano shoes that have typically 2 red pins at the bottom of the shoe, holding the front screwing plate in the middle of its allowed distance. You can remove those to allow for greater modifications. So, when you propose to start all the way in the back, do you account for this extra space or do you consider the screwing plates to be in their middle positions?
Well spotted, I did not take out the red spacer to allow more rearward cleats position, as I could reach my placement with the cleats moved all the way back on the original screws position. The key to me is to not feel the pressure on the toes and have the weight evenly distributed on the ball of the foot. Definitely it is good they put more leeway if you need to.
@@fede1275thanks for the prompt response! I'll star fresh in the middle position of the spacers and all the way back and see how it goes. The reason for this whole investigation is that I changed shoes and cleats recently and so I cannot replicate the old position. I got a slight irritation in the knee cap which is not there during cycling. Afterwards, I might get the feeling of a "heavy" knee but with a few days off I'm OK. I just don't want to play with my luck and since the only factor that changed was the shoes and the cleat position, I'm trying to figure out what might be a bit off.
I very much agree with you Fede. Right now I am even considering to buy wider (and slightly shorter) shoes in order to get my cleat position ever more backwards. I feel that I am lacking stability in my left ankle, probably because of a difference in foot arch between left and right foot. Do you ride with insoles and/or do you recommend doing that? Thank you in advance
I have not yet used insoles, I am for now happy with the standard ones as the carbon sole is rigid enough. I believe a good cleat position would get you most of the benefit and maybe an insole a further margin. I feel small differences between my feet, but luckily for now not enough to create any issues. I would correct only if there is pain or a lot of discomfort.
in my trials with cleat position I found that having the cleat set back on my shoes brought my body position forward to the tip of the saddle which I did not like.
Interesting, do you have the saddle positioned with a set back or in the centre of the seat post? I like to ride with the saddle almost centered, with no set back.
I had/have a pair of shoes which I think i was sold the wrong size,(my normal shoe size is 9 but I have long toes) I always felt my foot was not inline even though the cleat was as far forward as poss. being new to road bikes and road shoes in particular I tried to get used to them and also due to not riding often I never took them back.. I have bought a smaller pair even though secondhand they had never been used.. I did your stair/step and could feel the difference in my shin and calf not engaged together..
@@fede1275 I have dug my shoes out of the cupboard and looked at the size. they are a size 44 (10) and like I said before I am a 43 (9) so definitely wrong size sold and not only wrong size but I was sold red cleats which I had no idea they are a fixed position and being new to road bikes I should of never been sold them. no wonder my ankle is messed up..
Ciao Federico,io sono ancora in battaglia con questo argomento,il mio bike fitter me li ha messi usando il tuo metodo,ha arretrato tutto,in piu le scarpe specialized che ho io permettono di arretrare ulteriormente le tacchette grazie alle filettature che possono essere spostate ancora piu indietro e il mio bike fitter quindi è andato arretrando ancor piu di quanto tu abbia fatto,l asse del pedale risultava ben piu dietro del del metatarso del miglio,risultato?dopo 80 km iniziavano a bruciarmi i piedi😮 e nelle curve toccavo sempre la ruota anteriore con la punta della sella rischiando di cadere😮.poi iniziavo anche a sentire dolore nella parte posteriore al ginocchio parte interna che non potevo spingere sui pedali. Trovo che la scelta di averle arretrato cosi tanto sia stato esagerato. Non sono tornato piu da lui buttando via i soldi,tornando alla mia vecchia impostazione,tacchette dietro la testa metatarsale del pollice quindi tacchette tutte in avanti di nuovo e via tutti i problemi, ovviamente come dici te,in questo modo ho dovuto tirare la sella un po piu in su e i miei polpacci non sono affatto contratti,concordo con te solo sul fatto di mettere i cleats gialli in posizione neutra,detto questo non è una critica,penso solo che certi metodi non vanno bene per tutti,ma tu hai spiegato le cose davvero bene e le cose che dici sono giuste. Ti faccio solo una domanda,prediligi la pianura o sei uno scalatore? Ciao
Ciao Fabio, provo a cercare di dare una risposta, anche se e' difficile senza vedere bene la pedalata e la posizione. Io mi sono trovato subito meglio con le tacchette arretrate, anche se potrei andare ancora oltre, spostando indietro le viti e togliendo uno spessore che la Shimano mette di default al centro. E' vero che ognuno ha un set up che puo' variare, per me la cosa importante e' arretrarle fino a quando non scarichi il peso dalla parte anteriore del piede e soprattutto dalle dita. Lo scopo e' di poter passare la pressione della gamba al pedale senza dover spingere con il polpaccio, che poi si stanca oltremodo. Se il polpaccio lavora in maniera isometrica (per rinforzare la stabilita' della caviglia) allora sei libero di spingere senza affaticarti. Purtroppo con alcuni telai c'e' un po' di toe overlap, pero' a me succede solo nelle manovre quasi da fermo. Poi magari le scarpe e la suola rigida ti fanno stare in una buona posizione anche con le tacchette piu' avanzate, dove la rigidita' della suola aiuta a non forzare sulla parte anteriore del piede. Non so per il dolore dietro al ginocchio, puo' essere che con molto arretramento dovresti anche compensare con il fore/aft della sella ed evitare che scenda il tallone? Per le mie caratteristiche io vado piu' forte in pianura, ma scelgo spesso la salita, che credo sia l'essenza del ciclismo e dove cerco di faticare come posso per non sfigurare.
Ti ringrazio di cuore per la risposta,riproverò ad arretrare le tacchette perché anche io avevo avuto un buon feeling e spingevo molto senza affaticarmi,ieri con le tacchette in avanti mi sono affaticato molto mentre con il tuo metodo mi stancai meno,inoltre ho lavorato molto col polpaccio,scrivo questo per confermare che tu hai spiegato le cose davvero per bene e io le confermo sulla mia pelle, ritornerò sulle tacchette arretrate e magari chiederò al mio biomeccanico di completare il bike fitting,detto questo lui mi diede la slr di selle Italia ma io preferisco la dimension di prologo...ti terrò aggiornato,sei davvero bravo❤
@@fabiotesta1610 figurati, se posso aiutare mi fa piacere. Secondo me se ci lavori un po' con approssimazioni successive puoi arrivare alla tua posizione. Per me conta molto la posizione della caviglia nel momento di trasmettere la potenza, è per raggiungere quel risultato che per me vanno sistemate le racchette e l'altezza sella. Ho provato a spiegarlo qua th-cam.com/video/NuKhDlovqds/w-d-xo.htmlsi=TQP_zIwdbTaayz51
Ciao Federico, Cmq devo ringraziarti,se non avessi visto il tuo video non sarei mai più ritornato a posizionare le tacchette dietro il metatarso del mignolo,oggi invece l ho rifatto e il punto coincideva esattamente con punto in cui me le aveva messe il bike fitter a Edinburgh. Solo che questa volta al posto di buttare tutta la sella in avanti come fece il bike fitter(stile Simon Yates) l ho posizionata un po' più indietro(Stile Tom Pidcock)ogni fastidio è andato via e parlò del dolore posteriore al ginocchio interno, è andato via anche il dolore dietro al ginocchio parte esterna dove finisce il bicipite femorale,e anche qui avevi ragione tu,le tacchette andavano regolate mettendo il piede perpendicolare alla bici,non bisogna assolutamente far andare i piedi come vogliono,il mio piede destro va leggermente con la punta all infuori e questo faceva infiammare il tendine del bicipite femorale,invece regolando le tacchette ora la punta va leggermente all interno stile roglic,ogni dolore sparito via ❤GRAZIE😮😮😮😮😮
Thankyou for the awesome content on TH-cam . I do have a question , do you believe the center of your cleat on the shimano yellow . Should be under fifth metatarsal position right over the pedal axel for optimal power transfer?
@@me9303 thank you, in my experience the axle is behind the 5th metatarsal. It's the position where I can push hard and my ankle can lock and transfer the power more naturally. You want to avoid a cleat position where you need to rely too much on calf strength to stabilise the ankle under power
Hi there! I found your video on cleat positioning very informative and detailed. However, I noticed that your approach seems to be primarily focused on performance optimization. I'm personally more concerned about minimizing the risk of knee injuries. Many other experts suggest aligning the cleat angle with the cyclist's natural walking position to potentially reduce the risk of injury. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. if we want to prioritize health, the adjustment should be done as you do it or by following their recommendations? Thank you for your perspective.
I am not too sure if the walking feet angle can replicated when pedalling, as the body and pelvis position is different and the stance is reduced due to the cleats engagement on the pedal axles. To me the most comfortable position is to try to have the cleats angle adjusted by feel: as I'm using yellow Shimano, I want my cleats to have enough float on both sides, so to cater for some knee play. If you naturally reach the end of the float in one of the two directions, you will not have anymore leeway and might push on the ankle or knee. See where your foot wants to go, centre it there and allocate some float inwards and outwards from that position.
Funny you said the Cleats that come with the pedals are of poor quality as I bought new pedals last year and the yellow part of the cleat didn't last long. They seem to be made of softer material with no durability. Great video by the way
Found this very helpful! Been experiencing a lot of movement on my pedal stroke when really applying power and certain pain spots on outside of glute, quad and inside of knee. I’m not sure if left to right needs to be adjusted as well and how do you find that correct positioning?
Have you checked your cleats for wear? In some instance pedals can also wear out and have too much play. I try to focus on the knee position when I am riding, not too flared out and to set my cleats in the middle of the float, so there is enough movement left and right. It could also happen that you reach the end of the float in one direction and you push your foot and leg in an uncomfortable position. I try to feel and make small adjustments
I’ve always used Look cleats, both Delta and Keo but the basic positioning principles remain the same. Your technique is rather more chilled out than Bike Fit James🙊🤣
Pedals after many miles has little gap between pedal axle and pedal body. should i buy new? I use Red shimano cleats and the float because of this, is like the yellows. :D
@@fede1275 Yes pedals are worn . It seems they doesnt affect pedaling, i think i will keep them a little more. I put cleats back , had them full forward. Lets see what happened.
@@Godspeed961 I have R550 pedals and I can feel some wear and increased flow. My better Ultegra pedals are still fine, I guess they wear at a reduced rate.
Definitely there is some adjustment needed for saddle height, maybe you might need to lower it a bit if you moved them backwards. Bit trickier to get the fore/aft right for me
Good advice, I agree your point, I often stop and adjust like 5 or more time till my pedaling is in the best position, actually when I pedaling I can feel discomfort on the legs and much harder to push in efficiently when the clits is in wrong potion, so I don’t mind to stop 5 or more time during riding to adjust the ultimate right position till my brain telling my legs, “ oh yeah…this is perfect” I can feel naturally when my brain telling my leg whether my pedal is in the right position or need to be adjusted till I feel smoothly and comfort during pedaling, I will keep adjusting the clits on my shoes till they are in perfect position.
Definitely the saddle position is going to be altered by the change in the cleats, but I'm not sure if the ratio is the same. I would set the cleats first, you can test how they feel also cycling out of the saddle. Then adjust the saddle height to feel a constant pressure on the pedal when cycling seated
@@ozgurinsan unfortunately changes would sometimes have our body to react. Reverse everything if it's causing pain. It might be down to the saddle height, but it's difficult to say. I was lucky as I made a lot of the adjustments early in my cycling, before I had the time to get used too much to a specific position.
I believe leverage might not help in this case, I set up the cleats to have a stable ankle, almost locked in when pushing hard on the pedals. Same when performing a heavy squat, you would not use the leverage and go on the tip toes as it would be too hard. This is why cleats too forward might lead to calf cramps.
I couldn't understand you well enough because my native language is not English, Mr. Federico. Can you summarize the topic in a text with its important points? So I can take this text and translate it.
Or maybe because of my English! Not easy to summarise, but the main point is not to position the cleats too far forward as in that case too much pressure is transferred to the toes and the front part of the foot. In my opinion in the cycling motion you should not rely on the ankle as a lever, but have a stable platform in order to transfer as much power as possible with a locked ankle. When you have the cleats far back your toes are free to wiggle as the power is on the ball of the foot. Some suggest the pedal axle to be between the first and fifth metatarsal bones, in my case I would go further back.
@@Yigitdemir44 oh yes! Some refer to MVDP as a toe pointer, but I believe it's not the case. You can't produce power if you are pointing the toes, usually happens when you are sitting too high. I believe he's forward rotated and his ankle is still locked. Overall his toe is pointing down, but because the leg is also pushing in a forward rotated position. Similar when you do squats with a raised heel support.
Your advice is spot on and in line with my own experience. The angle of the cleats in relation to a neutral stance when walking or sitting dangling your legs versus when actually pedalling and applying power is also spot on for me. I find there is a marked difference between the two. Keep up the good work and I thoroughly enjoy watching your videos. Ciao.
Thank you so much!!
One of the best ever short and precisely made explanations ! Appreciation !
👍👍
The example to stand on the stair step was eye opening for me. Made all the difference!
👍👍
aftar more than 15 years of road cycling and watching lots of videos regarding this subject i found this one....
must admit it is the best one ever....
bravo 👏👏
Thank you so much!!
As someone who has seen every cleat position video on the internet i can say you did an outstanding job with this one. Just straight to the point and very well explained. Well done sir! Ps: 22.02.2023 apparently a new pinarello gets launched :D now or never Fede!
Thank you, really appreciated! I will keep an eye on the launch, another one to dream about 😀
explained beautifully! not with professional mumbo jumbo. a ley man explaining it where anyone can understand 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Thank you!!
Been riding road bike for 20years and still haven't find rhe best cleat position. Thank you, great video!
Keep experimenting 👍👍
Best cleat video on TH-cam. Well done. It feeds my confirmation bias perfectly.
Really appreciate that!
Thank you so much! I watched a lot of videos regarding cleat positioning, like on Bike Fit Tuesdays. The newer videos all recommend to put the cleats all the way back, but I wasn‘t convinced, yet. But your explaintaion made absolutely 100% sense and convinced me to put my cleats all the way back. Keep up the excellent work!
I'm happy you liked it, thank you for your feedback!
Woowwww, first video I see that does not use walking angle as a reference for your cleats and I agree 100%. My natural walk is toeing out. Thus, I tried setting up my cleats the same way; as a result, I can feel than I can’t engage the correct muscles and compromise my knees. Thus, sometime ago, I decided to put them straight and it has been fantastic… lot more power I can input. Also, noticed, as well as you mention, when I go harder, my foot naturally goes toeing in. Great video. Finally someone that make sense of the body and just not repeats what other nonsense videos say.
Thank you, I really appreciate your feedback!
Best Cleat positioning video on TH-cam 🎉
Thank you 😀
I've ridden my road bike for the past 6.5 years with SPD mountain bike pedals and shoes (I liked being and to walk "normal" 😁). Nothing wrong with that... I even got around to a solo century once. I am however making the switch over to proper road pedals and shoes as straps on the old shoes have failed. My Ultegra pedals arrived today and I've spent the last 3 hours watching videos, measuring, marking, overthinking, and looking for that moment of clarity and understanding. Then I came across your video which put a nice bow on everything, along with some very easy to understand technical information that really helped lock concepts in for me. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and experience! 👍
I'm happy you liked it!
This is one of the better cleat position videos I have seen. Great information and logical reasoning on the “more back” cleat position.
Thank you! I believe this is so important as it also has an impact on saddle height.
As usual, a thoughtful and well conceived visual essay. When I reached my mid-seventies I found that the usual (for me) middle position of the cleats was having a painful impact on my knees, so I moved the cleats to the very rear and even cut away the groove on the sole to allow the cleat to move farther back. Now in my 80s, I have returned to flat pedals so I can move my foot quite far forward on the pedal. No knee pain! Confirmation of the effectiveness of the forward positioning of the foot can be found by examining old photos; e.g., Ercole Baldini, in full flight, who, to my mind, had the most perfect position on the bike that I have ever seen. His foot position is quite far forward; if one examines his Legnano bike one can see how he has ‘shimmed forward’ his toe clips. Knees and power count on a Giro stage - the great ones know! ciao!
@@leightonbohl1920 absolutely! Will have a look at Baldini's position, thank you. Well done on your cycling!
Spot on 👌🏾I’ve been using this setup for 17 years and you’ve nailed it 👊🏾✊🏾👍🏾
Thank you Paul 👍👍
Fantastic video. Your explanation of the "why" legitimizes your advice perfectly!
Thank you!
Thank you. You have confirmed all my recent discoveries about my cleat positions! Great video
👍👍
very good video👌👍🙏
Very helpful indeed. I just bought Shimano SL cleats and pedals and watched all these professional explanations but after doing the set up It was crap and didn't feel comfortable at all. You make much more sense and I'm going to try this at hte weekend..... I currently have SPD cleats and pedals..... I went back to them after I could not get the SL cleats set up right! Thank you!
Thank you, let me know how you get on. Remember that the saddle might need to be adjusted too if you move the cleats a lot from a previous position
Federico, I must say this is a very good video - I have only just discovered your channel last week, and you have really motivated me to take this subject seriously - I have now adjusted my own cleats to the position you recommend, and I feel that I’m gaining at least 15% more effect - such a small adjustment with such a big improvement!! So, a big thanks to you and please let your nice videos coming in a steady stream 😉
Hello Tim, I really appreciate your comments and I'm very happy that the new position worked for you! I was surprised as well on how this affects the overall performance on the bike!
Really well put together video. Couldn't agree more. Very good points regarding looking like toe down but actually perhaps just leaning fowards. Thanks Federico.
👍 👍
I'm happy to find your video. You have very good insight about this. I agree that one should check the foot while loaded rather than when dangling on the edge of the table or in a relaxed position. This is also what I've been doing although it is not what bike fitters on yt advised.
I'm glad it made sense for you!
I like your arguments. They are well argued. Many thanks for making this
I'm happy you liked it!
New to clip ins. Your video was very helpful in how to fine-tune the cleat position. Thank you
That's great!!
As a weightlifter and competitive crossfitter this makes complete sense - you want as much of the foot over the axle… you don’t squat on your toes!
Thanks for confirming that!
Great exercise on the stairs to determine the correct axle position. I am already around 1 cm behind the axle but will do the stair test to see how close I am. Thank you for sharing this tip!
👍👍
Fernando, I love especially how you landed the plane at the end. I also use yellow for since I've started and believe since I'm not racing but want performance and comfort you gave the best scenarios. The adjustment I feel is exactly how you described. When I first started I went thru 4 pairs of shoes, now on my 5th for best performance and comfort. My feet are the other half of my connection to my bike and I knew before I even started that it would be very important to me. What I didn't know is which cleat system to use. Ended up with the Shimano sm sh pedals and believe it's been best for me. I thought I was researching too much but I know now how important it is to be steady, comfortable and having the aggressive posture when necessary. Thank you and I will subscribe!! From Napa/ Solano CA areas my friend, my Paisano!
My father from the Campo Basso / Puglia regions!!
Take care!
👍👍
Nice job discussing this challenging topic. Finding the most efficient and powerful cleat position takes time and can be a bit frustrating when the shoe/cleat/pedal position just doesn’t feel right. Your video should be helpful to new/novice riders in understanding this important topic and concepts. Bravo!!
Grazie mille!
Excellent explanation can't wait to adjust my cleats
Thank you! You might need to check your saddle height as well if the end position is very different in order to maintain the strong engagement from the ankle. Need to do another video on that 😀
I agree, I found gains from my cleats being all the way back too, the only downfall is I get toe overlap but I have size 13us shoes. Also a lot of float has been good for my knees, never had any problems. 🤙
Sure, that's one drawback of that positioning. Eventually I adjusted not to pedal when the foot is close to the wheel
Nicely explained. I am glad I have found your channel.
Thank you!!
This is excellent information Federico. I am going to try to adjust my cleats! Thank you!
Let me know how you get on with them!
Great explanation. 🎉
Thank you very much for sharing. 🙏 😊
This was extremely helpful and well presented. I especially benefited from your explanation of muscle engagement. Thank you.
Thank you, I don't know why very rarely it's mentioned in other videos
@@fede1275 For me it was the missing piece that brought everything together.
Your advise makes more sense to me because after following the advise I followed from youtube none worked against the discomfort I was feeling when riding and I decieded to move the cleates backward and my problem is now solved , I am not getting cramped toes anymore so I say to you good advise.
I am very happy for you! It's not easy to navigate through all the advice on TH-cam, I focused on BikeFit James on Cade Media and Neill Stanbury with RCA/ Cam Nicholls and it worked.
What a great explanation and greatest conclusions.
Every word here passed my mind when im fitting rider in my house as an amature fitter.
That is a perfect explanation!
Just, consider the stance width deeper if the rider suffer fron knee pains. Too wide stance or too nerrow stance for the specific rider can result in knee pains, and you can adjust it a bit with the cleats posituon.
Again,
What a great explanation Sir!
Oz
🇮🇱
Thank you!!
Bravo Frederico! i liked the way you took the great videos on youtube about the topic and translated better to real use and for the mortals :) . Grazzie
Prego! I believe it's easier to set them up this way, so you can feel the pressure on the foot
@@fede1275 I think so too. I just got a new Shimano but SPD( for me walking on the shoe is a must :)) . First ride I felt my toes numb and slight pressure/vibration on the bottom of the foot. Do I also feel any pressure on SL clits?
@@Gledii I never used mtb pedals, but I guess you can adjust them in the same way. I felt pressure on the toes and cramping on the calves when I had the cleats too far forward
@@fede1275 by pushing back the clit solved the numbness immediatly. the only thing i noticed is that when climbing standing, it feels weird, it feels like the weight should be more on the tip of the foot...
@@Gledii I believe you can get more power when you stand on the pedals if you keep the ankle locked and push with your body weight. The idea that you could use the calves for more leverage with the cleats forward to me is not efficient
Great advice. Going to go move my cleats now
See how it goes, you might need to check the saddle height as well
@@fede1275 moved my cleats. Game changer. The saddle still seemed fine.
I like a lot of these tips you have given. With the stairs and the tape. I think it will give people more of a sensory and visual feel for their cleats.
Yes, maybe they can also help together with the more discussed (but more difficult to measure for most) knee and ankle angles.
Excellent explanation!
Federico, your perspective on body position and preferred foot position on the pedals was super, super helpful. I was wondering why my blue Shimano cleats felt right at times and constrained at other times. I started to play with various positions on my trainer and you were correct. When upright on the tops and pedaling easy my feet wanted to angle out slightly. But when on the hoods and more aggressive my feet became neutral. I will replace these blue cleats with yellows when the time comes. Thanks!
Thank you, I appreciate your feedback and I am happy you improved your setup!
Thoughtful and thorough exploration of this topic. I agree and have come to the same conclusions via a variety of sources and trials. Bravo e graze.
Thank you, I appreciate your feedback!
Mi dispiace, should have been “Bravo e Grazie” (autocorrect 😩). I will subscribe to your channel.
@@lurlino prego 😄
This is where I put my cleats from day one!
Just bought some more shoes from Italy, which are not available in the UK!
Carbon Vittoria Revolve, and previous carbon Vittoria Velar, which stand-out, and are 100% Italian-made!
Although I did not buy directly from Vittoria, Revolve were nearly £400(with customs!), with Velar in sale from Netherlands
being in sale with 50 Euros off, and no customs!
I have been after authentic Pantini cycling kit from 1995-1998, with nearly everything found(although I take biggest sizes!).
I recently found last two Santini items from 1998(mitts & socks), and lenses for Briko Zen sunglasses!
Socks and mitts were from same seller in Bologna who got hold of tons of Pantani kitt.
Socks were smaller size, but just had made bigger, with another old pair.
It's amazing what legacy Pantani has built out of his incredible charisma. Really a superstar status like a modern Coppi or Bartali
Thank you for the excellent video sir!
I'm glad you enjoyed it!!
As abigginer I absolutley love this video, thank you 👍🏾
Thank you!
Excellent video. Spot on.
Glad you enjoyed it
Really good thank you
Great video Thankyou for sharing! 👌🏼
Loved the demonstration on the stairs. For me, leaving the in/out angle to where your feet "want" to go is best. The center of the swing should correspond with your "foot prints in the snow".
👍 👍
Tanks Bro Best regards From Mexico City!!
Ciaooooo!
Great video, thanks so much. Recent subscriber of your channel. Love the content… keep it coming
Thank you!!
Really good man. Good video.
Thank you!!
I have short femurs. I actually run the cleat as far forward as possible. I tried using the cleats all the way back, as well as somewhere in-between, but it never felt right for me. I know it generates more power while seated having a cleat position rearward, but I prefer scaling that power toward being out of the saddle.
Interesting, what was the issue when you tried the rear position? I had to lower the saddle a bit to adjust to a different ankle angle. A forward position was giving me calf strain and toes discomfort.
@Federico Ciampella I didn't have any issue, persay, but it just didn't feel like I was unleashing my power potential when sprinting. I can ride with a rearward cleat position fine. It just doesn't feel as powerful or responsive when I'm out of the saddle. I have large feet for my height. That's another contributing factor. It's all relative, really.
You're right: when the cleats are moved to the rear, you need to compensate by lowering the saddle height.
@@ayowser01 yes, it makes sense, thanks
Great video Federico. Totally agree that the hanging stance will produce a different cleat rotation angle than a foot under power. We've studied thousands of cyclists and come up with a simple tool that maps the stance in a jump test with their neutral position, under power, on the bike. There are not a lot of cyclists that end up with a toe-in position. You can simply have a look at video from the last TdF so see that most riders (including winner Tadej Pogačar) have a definite toe-out tendency. Setting a toe-in position for a rider who has a natural toe-out tendency under power would definitely load the knee, leading possibly to a range of problems, including patellofemoral pain, or patellar tendonitis, to name a few.
@@cleat-key thank you!
Thank you for the help !
👍👍
Awesome! That was great advice grazie mille!
Grazie a te!!
Brilliant video
Happy you liked it!
Man, i love your video. It's complete and clear. All those bikefitters must be extremly good but their videos are too long and not organized as yours (thanks for the chapters)
Thank you 😄
Thank you for this. I am particularly interested in isolating ankle movement on long rides to reduce unnecessary fatigue and as such increase endurance as a byproduct of rearward cleat placement. It does sound like a win win situation, but the reality is that acceleration does suffer slightly. This is simply because of proportionally less muscular engagement when partially isolating ankle articulation and subsequent reduced power application to the pedals. A small price to pay, unless you are a professional sprinter. For me the carbon fiber sole was a big game changer. Not because of weight, but because of being completely rigid and stiff, and thus allowing complete distribution of power transfer from the entire area of the base of the feet. That brings me to alignment of the entire leg, from hip to pedal so as to alleviate possible misalignment and overuse injuries of all the joints. It is an unfortunate fact that misalignment here is the cause of many debilitating long term injuries directly due too badly positioned cleats. I sincerely hope my 2 cents was of value. Keep riding
Interesting points: yes, I do believe less ankle movement returns both power and less fatigue. Imagine climbing 1000s of steps and on each one also involving calf muscles to lift you up. I am not sure that acceleration suffers, as you can really push hard with quads and glutes on the pedals with rearward cleats. Maybe less muscular engagement in terms of the number of them, but you use more power from the stronger muscles. This in conjunction with the correct saddle height of course. Carbon soles also are needed as other materials go soft over time and the movement degrades.
Well done. Very informative video👍🏾
👍 👍
Thank you.
Grazie Federico!
Federico, I understand what you mean about the yellows having more movement for when you’re in different positions but for me I get enough float with the middle cleat.. the red one. Also, it’s a little bit easier to snap out of your peddles when you’re stopping which is more of a personal thing I guess. Very good video. I did ride on yellows for many years so I do understand about the benefits of a lot of float. Also, I agree the original Shimano‘s are terrible. I use an aftermarket brand that is every bit is good, but lasts a long time and doesn’t deform like Shimano brand does
Are you using Shimano reds? These are no float, maybe the blue ones or Look?
Sorry .. yes.. it is red but another brand- and with the float of the blue shimano. Confusing. I wish they would keep color’s consistent with shimano.
Great video 😊✌️
Thank you!
I run my cleats slammed rearwards and it keeps any hotspot or numbness away. My Bonts have a rearward cleat position compared to my previous Northwaves also…
I have found the Decathlon cleats are longer lasting than genuine Shimano ones interestingly enough….
Thanks, good to know. I was always tempted to buy Decathlon cleats, I might give them a go!
I hope you have bought shimano cleat cover rubbers.. my freehub exploded and i walked home 5km.. it sucked but my cleats are fine
I actually have some, but haven't used them in a while. Bit hard to clip them on, but very useful
Anche io dopo aver applicato i consigli di Neill Stanbury sulla regolazione delle tacchette mi sono trovato decisamente meglio, il negoziante da cui avevo acquistato la mia prima bici da corsa(sono un principiante) mi aveva regolato le tacchette tutte in avanti. Molto interessante la parte in cui parli dell'angolazione delle tacchette!
Saluti dall'Italia.
Grazie mille!
Question about cleat angle (aka toe in, toe out or center): What is the best position when considering human anatomy? In other words what is the best position to not harm your joints, bones, ligaments, tendons, nerves, etc.??
I have always used yellow Shimano cleats as I believe the float helps a lot with joints longevity and does not detract power. When I push harder I go low and slightly more toe in, when relaxed I am slightly toe out. That is why I try to set the angle in the middle of the float, so I have leeway both ways. When I ride I try to concentrate to see if I have the same movement both sides and adjust. You don't want to push at the end of the float in one direction, it would be like riding fixed cleats. I am not sure your walking stance is a good indicator, more like when you lean forward in a pushing position.
I have cleats mounted under my 5th, or slightly below it (maybe 2mm), and it's fine. I recently learned about another method called midfoot, but it's rather strange and difficult to set 🙂.
I believe that as long as you can feel the pressure slight behind the ball of the foot you will be okay. I had problems when the cleats were too far forward and the pressure was going through the front and the toes.
@@fede1275 My right foot tolerates any setting, even up to 200 km, but my left foot hurt and I had to drill new holes ;). Maybe it's the shoes fault.
@@FoHsi definitely left and right have differences based on our use when walking or other sports
Really usefull!!!
far back as they go changed my life in the saddle
Absolutely!
Federico, thanks for the excellent video. Can you comment on some Shimano shoes that have typically 2 red pins at the bottom of the shoe, holding the front screwing plate in the middle of its allowed distance. You can remove those to allow for greater modifications. So, when you propose to start all the way in the back, do you account for this extra space or do you consider the screwing plates to be in their middle positions?
Well spotted, I did not take out the red spacer to allow more rearward cleats position, as I could reach my placement with the cleats moved all the way back on the original screws position. The key to me is to not feel the pressure on the toes and have the weight evenly distributed on the ball of the foot. Definitely it is good they put more leeway if you need to.
@@fede1275thanks for the prompt response! I'll star fresh in the middle position of the spacers and all the way back and see how it goes. The reason for this whole investigation is that I changed shoes and cleats recently and so I cannot replicate the old position. I got a slight irritation in the knee cap which is not there during cycling. Afterwards, I might get the feeling of a "heavy" knee but with a few days off I'm OK. I just don't want to play with my luck and since the only factor that changed was the shoes and the cleat position, I'm trying to figure out what might be a bit off.
I very much agree with you Fede. Right now I am even considering to buy wider (and slightly shorter) shoes in order to get my cleat position ever more backwards. I feel that I am lacking stability in my left ankle, probably because of a difference in foot arch between left and right foot. Do you ride with insoles and/or do you recommend doing that? Thank you in advance
I have not yet used insoles, I am for now happy with the standard ones as the carbon sole is rigid enough. I believe a good cleat position would get you most of the benefit and maybe an insole a further margin.
I feel small differences between my feet, but luckily for now not enough to create any issues. I would correct only if there is pain or a lot of discomfort.
in my trials with cleat position I found that having the cleat set back on my shoes brought my body position forward to the tip of the saddle which I did not like.
Interesting, do you have the saddle positioned with a set back or in the centre of the seat post? I like to ride with the saddle almost centered, with no set back.
I had/have a pair of shoes which I think i was sold the wrong size,(my normal shoe size is 9 but I have long toes) I always felt my foot was not inline even though the cleat was as far forward as poss.
being new to road bikes and road shoes in particular I tried to get used to them and also due to not riding often I never took them back..
I have bought a smaller pair even though secondhand they had never been used..
I did your stair/step and could feel the difference in my shin and calf not engaged together..
Hopefully you will find your optimal position!
@@fede1275 I have dug my shoes out of the cupboard and looked at the size. they are a size 44 (10) and like I said before I am a 43 (9) so definitely wrong size sold and not only wrong size but I was sold red cleats which I had no idea they are a fixed position and being new to road bikes I should of never been sold them. no wonder my ankle is messed up..
@@sme4969 I would not use red cleats, don't allow for any movement at all
@@fede1275 horse already bolted.. but I will but I will be binning the red and getting yellow
Ciao Federico,io sono ancora in battaglia con questo argomento,il mio bike fitter me li ha messi usando il tuo metodo,ha arretrato tutto,in piu le scarpe specialized che ho io permettono di arretrare ulteriormente le tacchette grazie alle filettature che possono essere spostate ancora piu indietro e il mio bike fitter quindi è andato arretrando ancor piu di quanto tu abbia fatto,l asse del pedale risultava ben piu dietro del del metatarso del miglio,risultato?dopo 80 km iniziavano a bruciarmi i piedi😮 e nelle curve toccavo sempre la ruota anteriore con la punta della sella rischiando di cadere😮.poi iniziavo anche a sentire dolore nella parte posteriore al ginocchio parte interna che non potevo spingere sui pedali.
Trovo che la scelta di averle arretrato cosi tanto sia stato esagerato.
Non sono tornato piu da lui buttando via i soldi,tornando alla mia vecchia impostazione,tacchette dietro la testa metatarsale del pollice quindi tacchette tutte in avanti di nuovo e via tutti i problemi, ovviamente come dici te,in questo modo ho dovuto tirare la sella un po piu in su e i miei polpacci non sono affatto contratti,concordo con te solo sul fatto di mettere i cleats gialli in posizione neutra,detto questo non è una critica,penso solo che certi metodi non vanno bene per tutti,ma tu hai spiegato le cose davvero bene e le cose che dici sono giuste.
Ti faccio solo una domanda,prediligi la pianura o sei uno scalatore?
Ciao
Ciao Fabio, provo a cercare di dare una risposta, anche se e' difficile senza vedere bene la pedalata e la posizione. Io mi sono trovato subito meglio con le tacchette arretrate, anche se potrei andare ancora oltre, spostando indietro le viti e togliendo uno spessore che la Shimano mette di default al centro. E' vero che ognuno ha un set up che puo' variare, per me la cosa importante e' arretrarle fino a quando non scarichi il peso dalla parte anteriore del piede e soprattutto dalle dita. Lo scopo e' di poter passare la pressione della gamba al pedale senza dover spingere con il polpaccio, che poi si stanca oltremodo. Se il polpaccio lavora in maniera isometrica (per rinforzare la stabilita' della caviglia) allora sei libero di spingere senza affaticarti. Purtroppo con alcuni telai c'e' un po' di toe overlap, pero' a me succede solo nelle manovre quasi da fermo. Poi magari le scarpe e la suola rigida ti fanno stare in una buona posizione anche con le tacchette piu' avanzate, dove la rigidita' della suola aiuta a non forzare sulla parte anteriore del piede. Non so per il dolore dietro al ginocchio, puo' essere che con molto arretramento dovresti anche compensare con il fore/aft della sella ed evitare che scenda il tallone?
Per le mie caratteristiche io vado piu' forte in pianura, ma scelgo spesso la salita, che credo sia l'essenza del ciclismo e dove cerco di faticare come posso per non sfigurare.
Ti ringrazio di cuore per la risposta,riproverò ad arretrare le tacchette perché anche io avevo avuto un buon feeling e spingevo molto senza affaticarmi,ieri con le tacchette in avanti mi sono affaticato molto mentre con il tuo metodo mi stancai meno,inoltre ho lavorato molto col polpaccio,scrivo questo per confermare che tu hai spiegato le cose davvero per bene e io le confermo sulla mia pelle, ritornerò sulle tacchette arretrate e magari chiederò al mio biomeccanico di completare il bike fitting,detto questo lui mi diede la slr di selle Italia ma io preferisco la dimension di prologo...ti terrò aggiornato,sei davvero bravo❤
@@fabiotesta1610 figurati, se posso aiutare mi fa piacere. Secondo me se ci lavori un po' con approssimazioni successive puoi arrivare alla tua posizione. Per me conta molto la posizione della caviglia nel momento di trasmettere la potenza, è per raggiungere quel risultato che per me vanno sistemate le racchette e l'altezza sella. Ho provato a spiegarlo qua th-cam.com/video/NuKhDlovqds/w-d-xo.htmlsi=TQP_zIwdbTaayz51
Ciao Federico,
Cmq devo ringraziarti,se non avessi visto il tuo video non sarei mai più ritornato a posizionare le tacchette dietro il metatarso del mignolo,oggi invece l ho rifatto e il punto coincideva esattamente con punto in cui me le aveva messe il bike fitter a Edinburgh.
Solo che questa volta al posto di buttare tutta la sella in avanti come fece il bike fitter(stile Simon Yates) l ho posizionata un po' più indietro(Stile Tom Pidcock)ogni fastidio è andato via e parlò del dolore posteriore al ginocchio interno, è andato via anche il dolore dietro al ginocchio parte esterna dove finisce il bicipite femorale,e anche qui avevi ragione tu,le tacchette andavano regolate mettendo il piede perpendicolare alla bici,non bisogna assolutamente far andare i piedi come vogliono,il mio piede destro va leggermente con la punta all infuori e questo faceva infiammare il tendine del bicipite femorale,invece regolando le tacchette ora la punta va leggermente all interno stile roglic,ogni dolore sparito via
❤GRAZIE😮😮😮😮😮
@@fabiotesta1610 ottimo!!
Thankyou for the awesome content on TH-cam . I do have a question , do you believe the center of your cleat on the shimano yellow . Should be under fifth metatarsal position right over the pedal axel for optimal power transfer?
@@me9303 thank you, in my experience the axle is behind the 5th metatarsal. It's the position where I can push hard and my ankle can lock and transfer the power more naturally. You want to avoid a cleat position where you need to rely too much on calf strength to stabilise the ankle under power
@ Thankyou so much . Would you say the axle should be about a fingers width behind the fifth metatarsal?
@@me9303yes, something like that
Hi there! I found your video on cleat positioning very informative and detailed. However, I noticed that your approach seems to be primarily focused on performance optimization. I'm personally more concerned about minimizing the risk of knee injuries. Many other experts suggest aligning the cleat angle with the cyclist's natural walking position to potentially reduce the risk of injury. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. if we want to prioritize health, the adjustment should be done as you do it or by following their recommendations? Thank you for your perspective.
I am not too sure if the walking feet angle can replicated when pedalling, as the body and pelvis position is different and the stance is reduced due to the cleats engagement on the pedal axles. To me the most comfortable position is to try to have the cleats angle adjusted by feel: as I'm using yellow Shimano, I want my cleats to have enough float on both sides, so to cater for some knee play. If you naturally reach the end of the float in one of the two directions, you will not have anymore leeway and might push on the ankle or knee. See where your foot wants to go, centre it there and allocate some float inwards and outwards from that position.
Funny you said the Cleats that come with the pedals are of poor quality as I bought new pedals last year and the yellow part of the cleat didn't last long. They seem to be made of softer material with no durability. Great video by the way
Thank you! Yes, it must be some cost cutting exercise. But the replacement ones are better at least.
Found this very helpful! Been experiencing a lot of movement on my pedal stroke when really applying power and certain pain spots on outside of glute, quad and inside of knee. I’m not sure if left to right needs to be adjusted as well and how do you find that correct positioning?
Have you checked your cleats for wear? In some instance pedals can also wear out and have too much play. I try to focus on the knee position when I am riding, not too flared out and to set my cleats in the middle of the float, so there is enough movement left and right. It could also happen that you reach the end of the float in one direction and you push your foot and leg in an uncomfortable position. I try to feel and make small adjustments
So… I know what the issue is and just never realized until now… I installed the dual sided Assioma that majorly affects the Q factor…
@@jamesgarcia748 I heard the Shimano version do, not the Look ones?
When you set the cleats all the way back, do you need to change your saddle height too?
Most likely yes, might need to lower it
I’ve always used Look cleats, both Delta and Keo but the basic positioning principles remain the same.
Your technique is rather more chilled out than Bike Fit James🙊🤣
I know, he’s a bit more forceful in his explanations 😀
C'è per caso una versione in italiano da qualche parte? 🙂
Purtroppo no, ho cominciato ad andare in bici qui e ho preso quasi tutti i termini in inglese. Fammi sapere se hai una domanda in particolare!
Pedals after many miles has little gap between pedal axle and pedal body. should i buy new? I use Red shimano cleats and the float because of this, is like the yellows. :D
Not too sure on that. Maybe the pedals are worn. I would get new one and use yellow cleats
@@fede1275 Yes pedals are worn . It seems they doesnt affect pedaling, i think i will keep them a little more. I put cleats back , had them full forward. Lets see what happened.
@@Godspeed961 I have R550 pedals and I can feel some wear and increased flow. My better Ultegra pedals are still fine, I guess they wear at a reduced rate.
@@fede1275 Ultegra with 4mm longer axle or normal?
@@Godspeed961 I am using normal ones, so far they have been great
My first cleats also wore out after just two months
Definitely different quality, the replacements are better
I thought I was scammed when see the cleats shipped with pedals. Good to know its originial at least
I didn't know shimano supplied low quality cleats with the pedals. Can they even do that? Yellow shimano cleats should be yellow shimano cleats no?
@@Eirikkinserdal it looks like the cleats work the same, but the yellow pads for walking wear out faster. Maybe it's a different supplier.
Are the blue 2 deg spd cleats easier to unclip.. i have the yellow 6 deg type
I wouldn't mind less play to unclip.. esp during an emergency
Its hard to unclip when ur knackered
I haven't used the blue ones, I am not sure they would be easier to unclip
@@fede1275 it would be same force.. but less twist to actuated. Im going to buy and check it out
Moving cleats rearward works, but the saddle stays in same position or move front or rear?
Definitely there is some adjustment needed for saddle height, maybe you might need to lower it a bit if you moved them backwards. Bit trickier to get the fore/aft right for me
@@fede1275 Thanks
Good advice, I agree your point, I often stop and adjust like 5 or more time till my pedaling is in the best position, actually when I pedaling I can feel discomfort on the legs and much harder to push in efficiently when the clits is in wrong potion, so I don’t mind to stop 5 or more time during riding to adjust the ultimate right position till my brain telling my legs, “ oh yeah…this is perfect” I can feel naturally when my brain telling my leg whether my pedal is in the right position or need to be adjusted till I feel smoothly and comfort during pedaling, I will keep adjusting the clits on my shoes till they are in perfect position.
If i set the cleat back 5mm, should i also lower the saddle height 5 mm?
Definitely the saddle position is going to be altered by the change in the cleats, but I'm not sure if the ratio is the same. I would set the cleats first, you can test how they feel also cycling out of the saddle. Then adjust the saddle height to feel a constant pressure on the pedal when cycling seated
@@fede1275 Ok thanks i set the cleat back and had a pain in outside of my left knee.
@@ozgurinsan unfortunately changes would sometimes have our body to react. Reverse everything if it's causing pain. It might be down to the saddle height, but it's difficult to say. I was lucky as I made a lot of the adjustments early in my cycling, before I had the time to get used too much to a specific position.
@5:00. You are breaking a cardinal rule in this demonstration - your socks are not the correct length. 😀
I'm not in character for once 😂
Very informative Fede , all this stuff could be marginal gains . Might give it a go at some stage , keep up the good work 👍🏽
Thank you Richie! It's definitely worth a try!
It`s all about leverage
I believe leverage might not help in this case, I set up the cleats to have a stable ankle, almost locked in when pushing hard on the pedals. Same when performing a heavy squat, you would not use the leverage and go on the tip toes as it would be too hard. This is why cleats too forward might lead to calf cramps.
Nobody ever talks about how tight / loose your shoes should feel on your feet, do you think it makes a difference?
@@starwilkinson8020 I have always used shoes that fit snugly and secure, don't think loose would be good
Simple! Just place your cleat position all the way back to the shoes and you will good to go
I couldn't understand you well enough because my native language is not English, Mr. Federico. Can you summarize the topic in a text with its important points? So I can take this text and translate it.
Or maybe because of my English! Not easy to summarise, but the main point is not to position the cleats too far forward as in that case too much pressure is transferred to the toes and the front part of the foot. In my opinion in the cycling motion you should not rely on the ankle as a lever, but have a stable platform in order to transfer as much power as possible with a locked ankle. When you have the cleats far back your toes are free to wiggle as the power is on the ball of the foot. Some suggest the pedal axle to be between the first and fifth metatarsal bones, in my case I would go further back.
@@fede1275 I'm also curious about the part where you mentioned MVDP, can you explain?
@@Yigitdemir44 oh yes! Some refer to MVDP as a toe pointer, but I believe it's not the case. You can't produce power if you are pointing the toes, usually happens when you are sitting too high. I believe he's forward rotated and his ankle is still locked. Overall his toe is pointing down, but because the leg is also pushing in a forward rotated position. Similar when you do squats with a raised heel support.
2 minutes into the video, and nothing has been said.
Please keep going, hopefully it will make sense.
A wise man once said: There is no such thing as cleats too far back…😅