Ned and Jon both show true honor by lying and forsaking societies idea of honor weather that's Westeros as a whole or the Night's Watch. Just like Jamie killing Mad King, it is the choice to dishonor yourself to do the right thing and suffer the consequences which makes one a true hero. Imo.
@@Buddah001 funny joke, I've never heard that one, ever...definitely haven't heard it hundreds of times in every comment section..you're the champion, you're right, I'm no fun at parties..now I feel bad though because you pointed out my greatest weakness..I'm sure you're the life of every party bro, hell yeah!
Something I don't think I've ever seen anyone mention... In the classical Greek period, legends/myths say Daedalus, the father of Icarus (he made the wax and wings things, warned Icarus against flying too high--and then he did and melted his wings and fell to his death), was a great inventor and architect. There are a hojillion structures all over the Mediterranean area credited to Daedalus as the architect. His story sounds very much like Bran the Builder's.
@@DavidLightbringerDavid, love your Song of Ice and Fire theories and your commitment to them, and I think most of them are either entirely or very close to being right, although I think you may be sleeping on the Mance/Arthur, Qhorin/Oswell Whent, Tormund/Gerold Hightower and the Rheagar/thehidinggiant (Read your Kafka for the key clue) secret identity plots. Would you agree at least that Martin has planted clues, perhaps as red hearings, that point in the direction of those characters (except Whent) surviving in the story in disguise? Jon’s whole meeting with Mance is laced with clues that point to him being Arthur in disguise, and when he’s hiding as the Lord of Bones go back and look at how he reacts to being handed a two-handed great sword, maybe Martin wants to fake us out but he’s clearly tempting us to think Mance might be Arthur. Martin has definitively declared Rheagar dead, but so what? Couldn’t he be an undead fire wight? Or might he have warged his consciousness into another body, and what would that look like if maintained for more than a decade? I bet it would cause some headaches for sure. I think these secret identities could be huge reveals coming up, or Martin might always leave it ambiguous, but I hope he doesn’t.
@@LightningBoltJpShe’s seen it or at least heard a lot about it over the years and talked about it in spurts, he’s not buying it… honestly I’m not either BUT they really put it together well in that vid and tge mance meeting is obviously weird as hell… and the fight scene, he’s a badass with a big sword! It’s just too far out there imo. Like you said maybe we learn mance is dayne maybe not… those other 2 would never be revealed IF they are the other 2 kingsguard. Again, they made a very good, convincing argument
I wish I could have caught this live. The Daynes are absolutely fascinating. I wonder if the Valyrian hair and eyes are actually indicative of a strong dragon bond or just traits that happen to be passed through the same bloodlines.
Given how light Ice is as Valyrian steel, while its massive size might make it a poor weapon for 1v1 dueling, it was probably an absolute beast of a weapon in pitched battles. Soldiers often used bigger and bulkier weapons like halberds and maces in pitched battles because everyone was wearing so much armour, because the fights were a lot more chaotic, and sheer force was often more of a deciding factor that agility. Contrary to what Hollywood shows us, it typically takes a huge/bulky weapon to do any significant damage to a knight decked out in plate and mail, unless you get a lucky shot. Often if you didn't have that, your best bet was to pin the knight to the ground and use a dagger to get between the plate at really close range. Meanwhile Ned had a weapon that was not only big enough to do the required damage even if it was just regular steel, but it was Valryian steel. He was probably an absolute nightmare to face when he had that thing. And it's no accident Robert's weapon of choice was a huge warhammer.
Ice wasn't used in battle, its ceremonial and much too big, once someone gets inside your guard thats it. Tywin notices this too, thats why he had it melted down into two more usable blades.
@@CheeseCrumbs00 Ned only used it in ceramonials but he was also average height. Not the steriotypical huge Northman that his forefathers might have been. There were a lot of mentions of how he was not as tall or strong as his older brother Barndon who was supposed to be heir and would have been the wielder of Ice as the eldest.
I wonder if Arthur Dayne being run through with Dawn as Jon was being born might have been the magical equivalent of Nissa Nissa being stabbed to bring forth Lightbringer. Arthur might have known about it, which might have been why he said "now it begins". He meant that the prophecy was finally coming true and he "bared his breast", knowing he would die, so that Jon could be kept safe.
Only death can pay for life... I like this theory. Not so much Arthur Dayne knowing about it and saying profound stuff irl (in Ned's dream sure), but him and the others dying as Jon was born is very good. Presumably he would literally have just been born if Lyanna was still in her "bed of blood".
If Aerys did assault Ashara, Barristan would know about it, so that might be one reason why he characterizes whatever happened as "dishonoring" her. Although it's apparently common knowledge that she was pregnant and gave birth to a stillborn girl, so Barristan knowing that something sexual had happened isn't a smoking gun. Her stillborn daughter being born with dragon features could be enough to freak her out, if the child was anything like Rhaego -- although Rhaego's features were probably further distorted by Mirri's magic.
I do like the detail of Jon being 25% Dayne even if Ashara isn't his mother. House Dayne likely viewed fighting talent as valuable as political power when considering marriages in order to ensure they could maintain the merit based system of Sword of the Morning. So Jon's descended from some of the most legendary fighters of Westeros, plus Rhaegar was no slouch. Because it's shown in the books that once Jon had actually seen real battle, plus how he trained in almost every moment of his spare time even as Lord Commander, his skill as a swordsman starts rapidly increasing. There are only two swordsman on the Wall who could even give Jon trouble (since Jon destroyed the best ranger in a 1v1). Qhorin, who's dead (he let Jon win so obviously doesn't count) and Mance, who beat Jon in a 1v1 while glamoured as Rattleshirt, and while Mance won, Jon did give him a decent contest. And it makes sense Mance would have to be very, VERY good, otherwise some wildling would have killed him while he was trying to unify them. Post resurrection and with even more time to train, within a year Jon will probably be within the top 5 swordsman in the Seven Kingdoms, if his current expertise is anything to go by and if his genetics indicate his potential.
2:00:57 - and that's *exactly* what Ned later does to save Sansa: letting the whole realm believe he us a traitor, in order to save one child (of his blood). It's all right there! I'm 100% behind the Ashara Valyrian Insurance theory and will champion it in any tourney! 💜
Probably his name is Dayne. houses tend to be named after their founders. intersting that that syllable "Dayne" is so similar to a lot of targaryen names-- Danaerys, Daenys, etc.
Barristan Selmy leaves King’s Landing and literally just changes his clothes and walks straight back through the gates. Jaime Lannister comes back to KL and his own men don’t recognise him.
selmy does that once. for a couple hours. not years. and Jaime, same thing, and he's been through an actual physical transformation. Neither could hide out at the Nights Watch for years and have nobody catch on. sorry
Theory on the "dragonsteel" with regards to Dawn: the comet/moon cracking event was an egg which poured forth dragons, then this could be a reference that the sword is made of a fallen star which the ancients saw as "dragons".
yes! welcome to the channel! you're absolutely right and good on you for figuring it out yourself. Check out my Nightbringer playlist for the full theory :)
i love all your videos david and i love your exuberance and am always amazed at your ability to keep track of all these theories and plot threads. as a fellow adhd-er i relate alot to the adhd things you mention. cheers and thank you for all the awesome work you do to entertain us all
House Dayne has First Men and Andal (fair hair, green/blue eyes) ancestry. Their apearence could be a resault of that. But, I also have the theory that maybe the grandfather of Ashara, Arthur etc, could have had married a Targaryen princess . We know that Egg and maester Aemon's sisters (they had two) got married and had children. We don't know who they were married to. What if one of them married a Dayne? They were half Dayne afterall, and they wanted to marry someone from their family 😂. Great content❤
My own theory on how the whole Sword of the Morning ritual evolved involves your ‘Dawn is the original Ice’ theory: I think the origin of House Dayne is a mix of an echo of the ‘founding’ of Houses Blackfyre and Karstark. Perhaps during the Long Night Dawn/Ice wasn’t wielded by the leader of House Stark, but by a younger son/bastard of the House (the truest knight). This parallels Daemon being given Blackfyre and making it his house name, and the Karstarks being founded as a result of Karlon’s deeds. After the Long Night, this younger Stark son took the sword south for some reason (to watch for the The Long Night?) There he founded his own house, taking the name of his sword, which evolved over time to Dawn due to it being Lightbringer/linguistics. The cadet Dayne branch in High Hermitage could have had a similar history, originating from a valiant Sword of the Morning who started that branch when the Daynes were still kings. It would be fitting for the returned Ice to be wielded by Jon Snow, the supposed bastard, if it was lost to a branch of House Stark founded by a bastard. My personal guess at the Dayne house words: We Come at Dusk
Ooooo I have such a juicy Dayne/Dawn/Sword of the Morning/TOJ/Jon/Lightbringer theory that I am SO CONFIDENT it's at least mostly correct. I have not shared it with anyone yet because I am sitting on it jealously....tho I think I should share soon. Maybe on your next applicable livestream I'll send it with a PayPal. I really think you are going to be on board with most of it too David, I am SO excited!!
“When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east.” - Starfall is in the west of dorne and sun spear the east. The sigil of house is the sun. The daynes will take over dorne with the next sword of the morning. “When the seas go dry” reference to Eurons defeat? “When the mountains blow in the wind like leaves” Gregor is “dead” so the mountain has blown away…. Dany and Jon aren’t azor ahai it’s gonna be their kid
Alloys are combination of metals ores. Ores are metal elements Steel is an alloy Bronze is an alloy Iron is an ore Meteor comes into categories one non ferrous usually burns up atmosphere. Ferrous is iron and nickel are more metallic and don't usually burn up in atmosphere.
I'd be curious to see how Stoneheart treated Edric Dayne. He's Ashara's nephew, and Catelyn likely hated Ashara even more than she hated Jon Snow. If she hates Jon, despite Jon not being responsible for his own birth, then I honestly can't see Catelyn not hating everyone associated with House Dayne. In life Catelyn might have just uncomfortably ignored Edric if they had met. But Stoneheart might not have that self control. I wonder if Edric left of his own accord or if he was worried Stoneheart was going to put him in a cage or on a noose sooner or later. There's also the possibility that's already happened right?
@davidlightbringer just about to watch the stream but I've just started reading the Elric Saga do you talk about it much are there any spoilers for old mate Melnibone?
Late to the party! Excellent discussion! Fascinated with the idea of Ned+Ashara being a cover up for Jon's looks. PS: I've got to dig up your old videos about Christian mythology! That sounds very interesting
i have kind of always felt like any pacts with the children had to do with them giving up knowledge in exchange for either a first born or…something. Which is why the huge emphasis on taking on wards of other houses or taking children as hostages. I feel like Dorne, not Winterfell, actually remembers this and that is why they don’t have kings and why they don’t look down on bastards. Also, i have also always kinda wondered if the Stormborn part of Dany is that she is a bastard of the stormlands. i have absolutely nothing to support that but here we are 😆
Dawn precedes the rise of the sun. Dawn precedes the bringer of light, which is the sun. The son is Jon. So the Dawn weilded by Arthur Dayne coming before Jon, the son, makes symbolic,wordplay sense at the tower of joy. Also brings the son, jon, and the sword, dawn, back to starfall, star fall.
@samwize28 I do think it is R+L=J. I don't assert this, but I do keep thinking that Ned was in love with Ashara. He was not bound to Catalyn at the time, and a man in love wither her, Barriston Selmy, said it was a Stark, along with people around Ned from that time. The main issue I have is that it would mean Meera might be Ned's bastard born out of wedlock, and that Ashara went with Howland out of duty, same as why Ned and Catalyn wed. Tragic and beautiful for all who share the secret of Jon's birth. Either way It's fun to think about.
I dont think Vorian Dayne called himself Sword of the Evening. I think that name was applied to him after he lost to Nymeria as he represented the twilight of Dayne sovereignty. Similar to Torrhen being the “King who Knelt”. And with Davos Dayne having been a contemporary I’m not fully convinced Vorian actually wielded Dawn, definitely didn’t take it with him to the Wall.
i think it is possible that one of the reasons why the kingsguard were stupidly following rhaegar was that according to their vows they have to follow orders from someone in the royal family, and they preferred to follow rhaegar over his cruel father. it gave them comfort to think that they served a good man and followed a good leader, so much that they refused to see rhaegar's shortcomings. it was their only chance for honour. you can see this in barristan's mentality, where he suspects that viserys was crazy, but he travels all the way to essos to find dany, although he wants to confirm that she was not crazy, he really wants to serve someone, that's all. these guys still retain their own sense of good and bad, but they still need a proxy to tell them what they should be doing with their lives instead of living a life by themselves. even when barristan is acting by himself after dany is gone, he has to believe that she is coming back. he is just holding things together until she comes back, but he needs her existence, in order to act. in essence, when they become kingsguard, they are stripped of their autonomy. i totally agree that GRRM is critiquing this kind of honour as stupid. this keeps happening over and over again in history, where people flock to some leader, serving whom they may feel fulfillment in life. they do this by giving up their own autonomy, "nothing personal, just following orders". its an easier thing to do because if things go wrong, you are also absolved of the responsibility because you were just following orders. i think GRRM is saying that no, you are always responsible for your actions and you cannot hide behind honour to absolve yourself of the consequences of your actions. i think what GRRM is doing with jamie is interesting. brienne asks him why jamie didnt tell stark the truth of what happened, and he tells her that stark had already judged him. even if jamie told him the truth, would it even matter to ned. ned has his own stiff version of honour. robert tells him "someone had to kill aerys!", but ned is like, but he is the kingsguard, and so he shouldn't have done that. this kind of blindly following orders, going against your personal sense of good and bad is necessary for the sustenance of power. one person cannot have power if the people under him refuse to go along with what he is doing. and this also goes into the topic what makes a good leader. some people even in this day and age think, "well he is the boss. i dont agree with what he is doing, but i m going along with it because he is the boss", or some version of it. what happens when people stop doing that? what will the world be like?
Okay...How about the song they were singing at one point when Tyrion was in an inn or brothel in DwD i think (i need to re read its been a bit) The song is about a woman(Ashara?)who throws herself from the tower because her prince (Rhaegar?) is dead. Ive always seriously wondered about this. Maybe a red herring but i almost feel like it was a little TOO hidden to be avred herring.
I do wonder if the Targaryen funeral pyre custom is a remnant of forgotten magic that has to do with hatching/creating dragons. Maybe Rhaegar thought his death was going to work in a way that it finally actually did work with Daenerys?
38:25 they could find metiore at hardhome and forge a sword from it. as the theory that suggestes that hardhome was destoryed by a metiore it would make sense for there to be bits left over
David, you should check out some Behemoth lyrics, especially from their last 3 albums (Opvs Contra Naturam, I Loved You at Your Darkest and the Satanist). They are pretty good at using symbols and alegories, mostly biblical, but that connects to other mythologies as well. Good place to start would be O father, o satan, o sun song, or In Absence of Light ("So I keep praying for rain ov flaming rocks To foster the symmetry ov worlds" sounds familliar? :D)
Not sure if anyone picked up on the parallel between the Daynes' home base being on an island in the middle of a river and Tolkien's Beren and Lúthien living out their mortal lives on Tol Galen. Also the OG Minas Tirith made by Finrod and later corrupted by Sauron in the 1st age, was on an island in the middle of a river! Love it
Awesome story, and wonderful to see Cleo the Cockatoo. But Ned did **not** spread the story. We know that almost implicitly. It is one of the memories of Catelyn was that the only time in their marriage Ned had scared her was when she inquired after Ashara. Ned **silenced** the story, not spread it. Ned adhered to the Littlefinger and Varys school of secrets, in that you don't say anything, and the story dies. Catelyn even explicitly said "And Ashara's name was never heard at Winterfell again". So why would Eddard Stark spread a story among random guardsmen, most of whom he would not have known well, but react with such wrath to his own wife, who had borne him an heir, and whom he would grow to love deeply? Certainly, Ned might have loved Ashara, and very likely sacrificed his honor and reputation in some fashion for **her** benefit (the "miscarried" daughter), but it is highly unlikely he simply her as a cover. It's also important to remember, that the story at Winterfell and at Starfall are **not** the same story being circulated. It's public knowledge "Wylla" was the mother at Starfall, but silence is the order of the day within Winterfell. It is never to be spoken of. This is the exactly paralleled regarding the relationship of Ashara and Ned. It is **public knowledge** in Starfall - Allyria apparently heard from Ashara, and Ned Dayne heard from Allyria, but within Eddard Stark's hearing, it is taboo (although clearly there is a story circulated in the common areas of Winterfell). I totally love that you mentioned the possibility of Aerys being the dishonorer. Aerys is so obviously a candidate Ashara would need Ned/Brandon's protection from. Also, if there was a romance with Brandon, why would Ned not make this clear? It is a well known fact that Brandon had ladies. Moreover, Brandon is long dead. The only people who still hold a candle for Brandon were Barbrey and Catelyn, and Ned has already thrown a far greater insult at Cat through the public presence of Jon. It would be very simple to simply say "she slept with Brandon". Personally, I can't see the Howland theory, because it basically implies that Ashara makes her way from Dorne to the Neck without being seen, then spends the rest of her life cooped up within Greywater Watch without any contact from anyone, and nobody ever sees Lady Reed. Also, it's not necessary to cover up a marriage to Howland or any Crannogman to the extent that In Deep Geek contends. It's totally convoluted and unnecessary. Especially when one considers that the tale of The Knight of the Laughing Tree was Howland's tale, as Meera heard it from her father. My ten cents.
1:43:30 Thats George not being good with scale/sizes and not being an expert on medieval combat, larger swords than Ice were used relatively often, and those swords wouldnt have been as light as Valyrian steel. Though as the second son, Ned likely wouldnt have had any practice using a sword of that size, but later on (the Greyjoy rebellion, etc) he should be accomplished enough to use it in battle. You don't waste that much Valyrian steel purely for a ceremonial sword, that is especially not something that would be done in the frugal and austere North.
Filipino culture has the Father as "haligi" (post) of the home while the Mother is the "ilaw" (light). Song of Ice (Wall) and Fire (Light)? 😁 Also, in Tagalog, "lalake" (male) means grow (ascend), while "babae" (female) means descend. Echoing Jesus/Christ/DivineMasculine and Lucifer/AntiChrist/DivineFeminine (Mary Magdalene?)... Sad how the patriarchy is ingrained in the words, but we're starting an age when both are valued 🤍
Glad to see you’re still holding fast against the tinfoil Mance=Rhaegar or Arthur theories. However, I do often wonder about Arthur & Allyria’s older brother (name unknown so far) father of Ned Dayne. No backstory for him & his wife yet, apart from them being dead. I would consider a little outside bet on his name being Cramer Dayne perhaps. Grrm has used the anagram device before now. 💫
Mance Rayder - Cramer Dayne 😂 - it’s a shame though as the dates don’t add up. He must have been around in Starfall 9 months before Neds birth in 287 and the WOIAF puts Mance as a Black Brother visiting Winterfell with Qorgyle sometime between 286-288 so it doesn’t work. But for sure how the older Dayne brother & his wife is a bit of a mystery.
I like to think Howland talked Arthur out of it, but that’s because I buy into the Howland+Ashara theory. I think Arthur fell on his sword, throwing his life away instead of breaking his vows.
Just off the top of my head, If Rhaegar was gay there would be subtle clues to something odd about him socially, like the maesters thinking he was weird and bookish or that he kept a small circle of friends, so that checks out. (Also similar to Aegon the Dragon) But more importantly there would be historic parallels to let us know. Oh, wait. If Rhaegar (who was a famed musician)was in a relationship with Dayne (Kingsguard) and paid no attention to Connington that would parallel Daemon aka John (the Fiddler) crushing on Dunk(a future Kingsguard) and ignoring Alyn Cockshaw really well. And remember Lem Lemoncloak is probably actually Rhaegar's squire Richard Lonmouth (the knight of skulls and kisses) in disguise. And house Lonmouth has a member that was famously gay , Joffrey Lonmouth ( the knight of kisses) And he was in a relationship with Laenor who is our Rhaegar parallel. GRRM didn't add two gay relationships in his backstory and have them parallel Rhaegar for no reason. He isn't necessarily gay I mean, Jon has Satin and that's only romantic in the minds of some fans. Then again, I have my suspicions about Aegon the Dragon and Torrhen stark. That romance echoes all the way to Ned daydreaming about how muscular Robert used to be.
I am sure you've heard the theory, but I love the idea that Ned was let into the tower of joy, but it was on the way out that Ned and Aurthor fight because the kingsguard would want to take the baby and make the baby king and Ned promised to hide him and keep him safe. I just think the dialogue for this moment would be awesome if it was a debate on what to do with the child. The wet nurse holding the baby. Aurthor saying that child is the future king. Ned saying the war is lost. This baby is my family. He is just a bastard child with no father to speak of.
if its in space, it could be a meteoroid (if small, I think currently defined as under 1m of diameter, used to be 10m), an asteroid or a comet. As its falling, the phenomena that you see is a meteor (same as shooting star), and its a meteor regardless of what the source body of the falling thing/piece is - be it a meteoroid, asteroid or a comet. A particularly bright meteor is also called a bolide (its not exactly a formal or precise term, but roughly it should be a fireball of at least -14 apparent magnitude to be called that by astronomers, and/or detonates or can be heard, but geologists might use it for a meteor that on impact will dig out a crater). And what survives the fall and you can find on the ground is a meteorite, again regardless of the parent body. Coma is unrelated, that is the gaseous envelope around a nucleus of a comet that develops as it approaches the sun, like a tenous thin atmosphere around it, that can get surprisingly large. It is various ices from its nucleus sublimating in the heat as well as dust, and the solar wind and radiation pushes this same outgassing material into making a tail (or tails).
Ashara Dayne mysteriously disappears into the sea. Ashara Dayne the _sister_ of Arthur Dayne. The Sisters is a region afflicted by "the mark", webbing of the hands and feet. She -dived- jumped from the " _Pale_ Sword Tower". A Pail is another word for bucket... That holds water... *Ashara is a Squisher confirmed.*
I think Hashara is one of my favorite theories. Not so much about atypical love, but that they disappeared into the neck and kept their very volatile secrets over in Greywater Watch. Makes it so mysterious
I always change my mind on how Arthur Dayne died... Although, following George's habit of screaming the beats of history through every allegory/story within the narrative I vote "net". Howland skin-changed him to create an opening during the fight/making Arthur end his companions and himself? A dart (from a COTF-figure) to the Neck (notice the capital "N")? Trapping a powerful figure in a net that is then ended?
So my uncle is dutch so white, but my aunts dad and there family come from surinam so she looks mix. They have 2 kids with a darker complexion and 2 that are white passing. In relation to Dyanna Dayne, I think she has blond or silver hair and amethyst eyes
I don’t want to think Ned would do this, but what if he pushed Ahsara out the window, to keep her from revealing that she’s not Jon’s mom, further protecting Jon. 😮
Ok, my 2 cents: 1) I think Arthur Dayne did die at the Tower of Joy, but he didn't know about Rhaegar dying until Nex taunted the Kingsguard. Arthur and the others had been there for some time while Rhaegar worked out a deal with the Martells (which is why he wasn't involved for a significant part of the war). And I think they were ordered to negotiate with Ned, but the taunting forced their hands. And Ashara was there at the Tower of Joy to serve as the Milk Maid for the baby (due to her own pregnancy). 2) I think Ashara Dayne had a love child with Brandon Stark. Probably got preggo in the dungeons before he died. He returned Ashara along with the Sword to Starfall. I think he agreed to keep her pregnancy a secret to spare Ashara's honor. Ashara's baby may then have been given to a lesser branch to raise, which drove Ashara to end prematurely. But that's ny little theory. 3) I think Darkstar was framed for the Lannister mutilation. I also think it wasn't Marcella, but the cousin that was brought along ad company. But in any case, I think he was a convenient scapegoat due to his personality. 4) My own personal pet theory THAT HAS NO EVIDENCE TO BACK UP is that Darkstar is Ashara's baby. But it is highly unlikely. Still, all this is theory And I would LOVE for George to finish the series so we can get some answers. Until then, it's fun to speculate.
While I doubt Darkstar is the next Arthur Dayne, there's no chance in hell the tradition of Sword of the Morning is even maintained without House Dayne spending a lot of money and time training every man of their house to be as good as they can possibly get in the hope of having as many worthy candidates to wield Dawn as possible, to ensure the tradition is kept throughout the generations. So Darkstar may be no Arthur, but he has to be pretty damn good. He's probably only one tier below Jaime Lannister in his prime.
I guess Arthur Dayne could be Jacqen Hagar if he's hiding out in Essos primarily and hiding his face while doing stuff in plain sight but I think he is chilling somewhere else
29:00 Meteorites are rocks, comets are made of ice... comets do not leave rocks or metals. My favorite theory about the Tunguska Blast is that it was a comet and that's why there's no remnant buried in the permafrost.
Wikipedia has some discussion about the composition of comets, but generally the difference is that a meteor does not have a tail from outgassing like a comet does. Wikipedia also describes extinct comets (which I'd never heard of...) which no longer have any ice to outgas. Apparently my black-and-white distinction is
In The Middle Ages young high born girls often betrothed when they are toddlers and get married around 14 or 15. But often the betrothals fell through multiple times. Queen Mary 1 or Bloody Mary was betrothed multiple times.
hey david. i have something off topic for you. maybe you can give it a thought. during summer holidays i ran out of books and at a marketplace book exchanged, i stumbled upon the 1962 2nd book of marion zimmer bradley´s dark over series "The Sword of Aldones". while reading i was wondering if this might have been an influnce to young grrm. there is themes of houses, there is a wall of ice (!) that seperates the habital parts from the unknown regions of the planet and swords representing duality. there are characters named ashara and margaery. i read mists of avalon ages ago, and while thinking about the darkover series and a possible influnce on martin, i remembered that the 3rd part of avalon is titled "Book Three: The King Stag", which is current theme in your analyzations. what do you think david? are the works of zimmer bradley an interesting influnce on martin´s work? might he even picked up core themes from her? from a timeline point of view, i could imagine it may be very likely the martin was inspired by the work of MZB. maybe there might be pieces to be found to decode his approach
About a glamoured Arthur Dayne at the trident in Raegar’s armour “There’s always a clue like a ruby” - didn’t a bunch of rubies explode forth from his breastplate ? Rhaegar is a tragic hero, his death is part of this story structure - isn’t Martin interested in subverting these genre-based expectations?
You should look up moorish art, they were blonde and blue eyed. former goths mixed with berbers and phoenicians, who conquered north africa and became muslim when caliphate came.
Wouldn't it be a twist if: Lyanna had twins : Ameond /Agoen (jon & griff), N + A= V. Aurthur= Mance /Tormond= Hightower; they hid Val in the far north. Ashara helped hide and raise Griff. Or R+L= Val & Agoen. N+A=J and Jon really is a Stark. just rambling thoughts. lol.
Ned and Jon both show true honor by lying and forsaking societies idea of honor weather that's Westeros as a whole or the Night's Watch. Just like Jamie killing Mad King, it is the choice to dishonor yourself to do the right thing and suffer the consequences which makes one a true hero. Imo.
*whether..not weather
@@noahh2338really? That’s what you got out of all that? To correct spelling!?!?!! Bet you’re fun at parties.
@@Buddah001 funny joke, I've never heard that one, ever...definitely haven't heard it hundreds of times in every comment section..you're the champion, you're right, I'm no fun at parties..now I feel bad though because you pointed out my greatest weakness..I'm sure you're the life of every party bro, hell yeah!
@@noahh2338Current evidence would suggest that forming properly structured sentences might be your greatest weakness.
@@MoonStone_Empress wow, I bet you're so smart, and always speak in complete sentences, you want a cookie bro?
I love Bella's Ashara art. Definitely captures the haunting eyes
it’s my favorite!!!
It'll turn out that Howland Reed stabbed Arthur Dayne in the back with a frog spear, which is why he croaked... yeah, I'll get my cloak...
God smiles on Fast Show references.
Something I don't think I've ever seen anyone mention... In the classical Greek period, legends/myths say Daedalus, the father of Icarus (he made the wax and wings things, warned Icarus against flying too high--and then he did and melted his wings and fell to his death), was a great inventor and architect. There are a hojillion structures all over the Mediterranean area credited to Daedalus as the architect. His story sounds very much like Bran the Builder's.
good call I'll look into it
also with Aerea Targaryen and her tragic ending
@@DavidLightbringerDavid, love your Song of Ice and Fire theories and your commitment to them, and I think most of them are either entirely or very close to being right, although I think you may be sleeping on the Mance/Arthur, Qhorin/Oswell Whent, Tormund/Gerold Hightower and the Rheagar/thehidinggiant (Read your Kafka for the key clue) secret identity plots. Would you agree at least that Martin has planted clues, perhaps as red hearings, that point in the direction of those characters (except Whent) surviving in the story in disguise? Jon’s whole meeting with Mance is laced with clues that point to him being Arthur in disguise, and when he’s hiding as the Lord of Bones go back and look at how he reacts to being handed a two-handed great sword, maybe Martin wants to fake us out but he’s clearly tempting us to think Mance might be Arthur. Martin has definitively declared Rheagar dead, but so what? Couldn’t he be an undead fire wight? Or might he have warged his consciousness into another body, and what would that look like if maintained for more than a decade? I bet it would cause some headaches for sure. I think these secret identities could be huge reveals coming up, or Martin might always leave it ambiguous, but I hope he doesn’t.
@@LightningBoltJpShe’s seen it or at least heard a lot about it over the years and talked about it in spurts, he’s not buying it… honestly I’m not either BUT they really put it together well in that vid and tge mance meeting is obviously weird as hell… and the fight scene, he’s a badass with a big sword!
It’s just too far out there imo.
Like you said maybe we learn mance is dayne maybe not… those other 2 would never be revealed IF they are the other 2 kingsguard.
Again, they made a very good, convincing argument
Mhmm n what's any of this got to do with house Dayne?
I wish I could have caught this live. The Daynes are absolutely fascinating. I wonder if the Valyrian hair and eyes are actually indicative of a strong dragon bond or just traits that happen to be passed through the same bloodlines.
They arent Valyrians, they are from GEOTD.
I thought they only had purple eyes, not white hair.
@@DrGlynnWixsupposedly they are mostly blond. I dont think they described it as white or silver, just light blonde.
When you referred to the sword of the morning as a nickname ‘morning wood’ popped into my head. So thanks for that
Given how light Ice is as Valyrian steel, while its massive size might make it a poor weapon for 1v1 dueling, it was probably an absolute beast of a weapon in pitched battles. Soldiers often used bigger and bulkier weapons like halberds and maces in pitched battles because everyone was wearing so much armour, because the fights were a lot more chaotic, and sheer force was often more of a deciding factor that agility.
Contrary to what Hollywood shows us, it typically takes a huge/bulky weapon to do any significant damage to a knight decked out in plate and mail, unless you get a lucky shot. Often if you didn't have that, your best bet was to pin the knight to the ground and use a dagger to get between the plate at really close range.
Meanwhile Ned had a weapon that was not only big enough to do the required damage even if it was just regular steel, but it was Valryian steel. He was probably an absolute nightmare to face when he had that thing. And it's no accident Robert's weapon of choice was a huge warhammer.
Also the longer the sword the farther away you can stab/slash at people that could freeze you with a single touch
Ice wasn't used in battle, its ceremonial and much too big, once someone gets inside your guard thats it. Tywin notices this too, thats why he had it melted down into two more usable blades.
@@CheeseCrumbs00 Ned only used it in ceramonials but he was also average height. Not the steriotypical huge Northman that his forefathers might have been.
There were a lot of mentions of how he was not as tall or strong as his older brother Barndon who was supposed to be heir and would have been the wielder of Ice as the eldest.
@@blakan1478 If they looked like Umbers maybe, but Starks don't have giants blood like Umbers do.
Thank you for years of great content David. You helped me Tru many sleeples stressful nights thank you Rholor bless you
Yay. Dayneberg part one. Love you Mythheads
I wish you good fortune in the streams to come..👍
I wonder if Arthur Dayne being run through with Dawn as Jon was being born might have been the magical equivalent of Nissa Nissa being stabbed to bring forth Lightbringer. Arthur might have known about it, which might have been why he said "now it begins". He meant that the prophecy was finally coming true and he "bared his breast", knowing he would die, so that Jon could be kept safe.
woooaaahhh
Nah
Only death can pay for life...
I like this theory. Not so much Arthur Dayne knowing about it and saying profound stuff irl (in Ned's dream sure), but him and the others dying as Jon was born is very good. Presumably he would literally have just been born if Lyanna was still in her "bed of blood".
If Aerys did assault Ashara, Barristan would know about it, so that might be one reason why he characterizes whatever happened as "dishonoring" her.
Although it's apparently common knowledge that she was pregnant and gave birth to a stillborn girl, so Barristan knowing that something sexual had happened isn't a smoking gun.
Her stillborn daughter being born with dragon features could be enough to freak her out, if the child was anything like Rhaego -- although Rhaego's features were probably further distorted by Mirri's magic.
I do like the detail of Jon being 25% Dayne even if Ashara isn't his mother. House Dayne likely viewed fighting talent as valuable as political power when considering marriages in order to ensure they could maintain the merit based system of Sword of the Morning. So Jon's descended from some of the most legendary fighters of Westeros, plus Rhaegar was no slouch.
Because it's shown in the books that once Jon had actually seen real battle, plus how he trained in almost every moment of his spare time even as Lord Commander, his skill as a swordsman starts rapidly increasing. There are only two swordsman on the Wall who could even give Jon trouble (since Jon destroyed the best ranger in a 1v1). Qhorin, who's dead (he let Jon win so obviously doesn't count) and Mance, who beat Jon in a 1v1 while glamoured as Rattleshirt, and while Mance won, Jon did give him a decent contest. And it makes sense Mance would have to be very, VERY good, otherwise some wildling would have killed him while he was trying to unify them.
Post resurrection and with even more time to train, within a year Jon will probably be within the top 5 swordsman in the Seven Kingdoms, if his current expertise is anything to go by and if his genetics indicate his potential.
Rewatching this a few months later and I dont think its a coincidence i got a Dawn dishsoap commercial in the middle of this.😂
that's HILARIOUS
“I can do anything” when the riffs are that funky 🫡🎸📖🌈
2:00:57 - and that's *exactly* what Ned later does to save Sansa: letting the whole realm believe he us a traitor, in order to save one child (of his blood).
It's all right there!
I'm 100% behind the Ashara Valyrian Insurance theory and will champion it in any tourney! 💜
Probably his name is Dayne. houses tend to be named after their founders. intersting that that syllable "Dayne" is so similar to a lot of targaryen names-- Danaerys, Daenys, etc.
Barristan Selmy leaves King’s Landing and literally just changes his clothes and walks straight back through the gates.
Jaime Lannister comes back to KL and his own men don’t recognise him.
selmy does that once. for a couple hours. not years. and Jaime, same thing, and he's been through an actual physical transformation. Neither could hide out at the Nights Watch for years and have nobody catch on. sorry
Keeping all Dayne stans satiated. Great stuff
The long awaited dayneberg baby
Great part 1. Even though I was familiar with most of the topics covered in this video it’s always nice hearing a refresher
white stone spire of starfall might be petrified weirwood . which makes ashara jumping of the tower even more suspicious when considering bran's dream
Had to drop off from the live! Can’t wait to catch up on the rewatch. Great work per usual ❤
Theory on the "dragonsteel" with regards to Dawn: the comet/moon cracking event was an egg which poured forth dragons, then this could be a reference that the sword is made of a fallen star which the ancients saw as "dragons".
yes! welcome to the channel! you're absolutely right and good on you for figuring it out yourself. Check out my Nightbringer playlist for the full theory :)
Great stuff, I see there’s a part two so looking forward to diving into that!
i love all your videos david and i love your exuberance and am always amazed at your ability to keep track of all these theories and plot threads. as a fellow adhd-er i relate alot to the adhd things you mention. cheers and thank you for all the awesome work you do to entertain us all
you also mentioned that shanara's sword reveals truth . so looking into ashara might also reveal truth
House Dayne has First Men and Andal (fair hair, green/blue eyes) ancestry. Their apearence could be a resault of that. But, I also have the theory that maybe the grandfather of Ashara, Arthur etc, could have had married a Targaryen princess . We know that Egg and maester Aemon's sisters (they had two) got married and had children. We don't know who they were married to. What if one of them married a Dayne? They were half Dayne afterall, and they wanted to marry someone from their family 😂. Great content❤
GRRM said Targs have not married into House Dayne. They have a common ancestors from Asshai
A long day of work and a great stream to listen too. Thank you
There’s a theory that the purple eyes of the Daynes is also connected to possible magic, as valryians have purple eyes and magic properties as well.
Dawn is Lightbringer: "Don't overthink it!" (tm)
My own theory on how the whole Sword of the Morning ritual evolved involves your ‘Dawn is the original Ice’ theory:
I think the origin of House Dayne is a mix of an echo of the ‘founding’ of Houses Blackfyre and Karstark. Perhaps during the Long Night Dawn/Ice wasn’t wielded by the leader of House Stark, but by a younger son/bastard of the House (the truest knight). This parallels Daemon being given Blackfyre and making it his house name, and the Karstarks being founded as a result of Karlon’s deeds. After the Long Night, this younger Stark son took the sword south for some reason (to watch for the The Long Night?)
There he founded his own house, taking the name of his sword, which evolved over time to Dawn due to it being Lightbringer/linguistics. The cadet Dayne branch in High Hermitage could have had a similar history, originating from a valiant Sword of the Morning who started that branch when the Daynes were still kings.
It would be fitting for the returned Ice to be wielded by Jon Snow, the supposed bastard, if it was lost to a branch of House Stark founded by a bastard.
My personal guess at the Dayne house words: We Come at Dusk
I’m two streams down for my lml binge watch, can’t wait to finally catch back up!
Your content is my comfort food
Ooooo I have such a juicy Dayne/Dawn/Sword of the Morning/TOJ/Jon/Lightbringer theory that I am SO CONFIDENT it's at least mostly correct. I have not shared it with anyone yet because I am sitting on it jealously....tho I think I should share soon. Maybe on your next applicable livestream I'll send it with a PayPal. I really think you are going to be on board with most of it too David, I am SO excited!!
yeah bring to a Livestream that's perfect
“When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east.” - Starfall is in the west of dorne and sun spear the east. The sigil of house is the sun. The daynes will take over dorne with the next sword of the morning.
“When the seas go dry” reference to Eurons defeat?
“When the mountains blow in the wind like leaves” Gregor is “dead” so the mountain has blown away….
Dany and Jon aren’t azor ahai it’s gonna be their kid
Best picture of Dawn is in the "World of Ice and Fire" book
Alloys are combination of metals ores. Ores are metal elements
Steel is an alloy
Bronze is an alloy
Iron is an ore
Meteor comes into categories one non ferrous usually burns up atmosphere. Ferrous is iron and nickel are more metallic and don't usually burn up in atmosphere.
I'd be curious to see how Stoneheart treated Edric Dayne. He's Ashara's nephew, and Catelyn likely hated Ashara even more than she hated Jon Snow. If she hates Jon, despite Jon not being responsible for his own birth, then I honestly can't see Catelyn not hating everyone associated with House Dayne.
In life Catelyn might have just uncomfortably ignored Edric if they had met. But Stoneheart might not have that self control. I wonder if Edric left of his own accord or if he was worried Stoneheart was going to put him in a cage or on a noose sooner or later. There's also the possibility that's already happened right?
I think the evidence indicates Edric left when Beric died. he was Berics squire so that makes sense
@davidlightbringer just about to watch the stream but I've just started reading the Elric Saga do you talk about it much are there any spoilers for old mate Melnibone?
Sorry to miss this live!! This is my v late night watch tn😁
Maybe Howland didn't save Ned with magic or weapons, but with words. If Ashara was pregnant with Howland's child, do you think Arthur knew about it?
So, house Dayne's sigil is a mystery??
What if it's a RED DOOR!
no, their words
@@DavidLightbringer my mistake... "House Danye, our house has a red door"? :)
Late to the party! Excellent discussion! Fascinated with the idea of Ned+Ashara being a cover up for Jon's looks.
PS: I've got to dig up your old videos about Christian mythology! That sounds very interesting
It Brandon Stark and Ashara Dayne who Jon Snow parents.
i have kind of always felt like any pacts with the children had to do with them giving up knowledge in exchange for either a first born or…something. Which is why the huge emphasis on taking on wards of other houses or taking children as hostages. I feel like Dorne, not Winterfell, actually remembers this and that is why they don’t have kings and why they don’t look down on bastards.
Also, i have also always kinda wondered if the Stormborn part of Dany is that she is a bastard of the stormlands. i have absolutely nothing to support that but here we are 😆
Howland and Ashara going to Brandon for protection from Aerys mirrors Sam and Gilly going to Jon for protection from Crasner
Dawn precedes the rise of the sun. Dawn precedes the bringer of light, which is the sun. The son is Jon. So the Dawn weilded by Arthur Dayne coming before Jon, the son, makes symbolic,wordplay sense at the tower of joy. Also brings the son, jon, and the sword, dawn, back to starfall, star fall.
@samwize28 I do think it is R+L=J.
I don't assert this, but I do keep thinking that Ned was in love with Ashara. He was not bound to Catalyn at the time, and a man in love wither her, Barriston Selmy, said it was a Stark, along with people around Ned from that time.
The main issue I have is that it would mean Meera might be Ned's bastard born out of wedlock, and that Ashara went with Howland out of duty, same as why Ned and Catalyn wed. Tragic and beautiful for all who share the secret of Jon's birth. Either way It's fun to think about.
@samwize28 Brandon Stark and Ashara Dayne equals Jon Snow.
Jon is not baby that born in the Tower of Joy. Not in the book version.
@samwize28 Brandon Stark is the father of Jon Snow and Ashara Dayne is his mother.
Thankyou for this one.
I dont think Vorian Dayne called himself Sword of the Evening. I think that name was applied to him after he lost to Nymeria as he represented the twilight of Dayne sovereignty. Similar to Torrhen being the “King who Knelt”. And with Davos Dayne having been a contemporary I’m not fully convinced Vorian actually wielded Dawn, definitely didn’t take it with him to the Wall.
no question he didn't take it to the Wall, and we don't know if he wielded it. I assume not. the title, could be, who knows
1:54:28 Thinking about how Lyanna didn't want Robert known for being unfaithful, why was shenokay with Raegar, when he was already married?
it was probably a multiple wives Valyrian / Dornish thing. Polygamy isnt dishonest, just complex, while cheating is dishonest
Rhaegar never cheat on his wife Elia Martell. I believe in the books Rhaegar was going have two wives Lyanna and Elia at same time.
Clarissa Ex-Daynes It All?! REALLY? Best one yet!
thank you I was proud of that one haha
1:14:50 this made me laugh out loud while i was at my job 😭
i think it is possible that one of the reasons why the kingsguard were stupidly following rhaegar was that according to their vows they have to follow orders from someone in the royal family, and they preferred to follow rhaegar over his cruel father. it gave them comfort to think that they served a good man and followed a good leader, so much that they refused to see rhaegar's shortcomings. it was their only chance for honour. you can see this in barristan's mentality, where he suspects that viserys was crazy, but he travels all the way to essos to find dany, although he wants to confirm that she was not crazy, he really wants to serve someone, that's all. these guys still retain their own sense of good and bad, but they still need a proxy to tell them what they should be doing with their lives instead of living a life by themselves. even when barristan is acting by himself after dany is gone, he has to believe that she is coming back. he is just holding things together until she comes back, but he needs her existence, in order to act. in essence, when they become kingsguard, they are stripped of their autonomy.
i totally agree that GRRM is critiquing this kind of honour as stupid. this keeps happening over and over again in history, where people flock to some leader, serving whom they may feel fulfillment in life. they do this by giving up their own autonomy, "nothing personal, just following orders". its an easier thing to do because if things go wrong, you are also absolved of the responsibility because you were just following orders. i think GRRM is saying that no, you are always responsible for your actions and you cannot hide behind honour to absolve yourself of the consequences of your actions.
i think what GRRM is doing with jamie is interesting. brienne asks him why jamie didnt tell stark the truth of what happened, and he tells her that stark had already judged him. even if jamie told him the truth, would it even matter to ned. ned has his own stiff version of honour. robert tells him "someone had to kill aerys!", but ned is like, but he is the kingsguard, and so he shouldn't have done that. this kind of blindly following orders, going against your personal sense of good and bad is necessary for the sustenance of power. one person cannot have power if the people under him refuse to go along with what he is doing.
and this also goes into the topic what makes a good leader. some people even in this day and age think, "well he is the boss. i dont agree with what he is doing, but i m going along with it because he is the boss", or some version of it. what happens when people stop doing that? what will the world be like?
great comments here! very well said
Okay...How about the song they were singing at one point when Tyrion was in an inn or brothel in DwD i think (i need to re read its been a bit) The song is about a woman(Ashara?)who throws herself from the tower because her prince (Rhaegar?) is dead. Ive always seriously wondered about this. Maybe a red herring but i almost feel like it was a little TOO hidden to be avred herring.
I do wonder if the Targaryen funeral pyre custom is a remnant of forgotten magic that has to do with hatching/creating dragons. Maybe Rhaegar thought his death was going to work in a way that it finally actually did work with Daenerys?
That being said, I also wonder if Rhaegar thought he would successfully be resurrected but it didn't work.
38:25 they could find metiore at hardhome and forge a sword from it. as the theory that suggestes that hardhome was destoryed by a metiore it would make sense for there to be bits left over
ashara dayne is the dusky woman
For the algorithm!
David, you should check out some Behemoth lyrics, especially from their last 3 albums (Opvs Contra Naturam, I Loved You at Your Darkest and the Satanist). They are pretty good at using symbols and alegories, mostly biblical, but that connects to other mythologies as well. Good place to start would be O father, o satan, o sun song, or In Absence of Light ("So I keep praying for rain ov flaming rocks
To foster the symmetry ov worlds" sounds familliar? :D)
Wonderful !! My favorite house
Wow. I hope he's ok.
Not sure if anyone picked up on the parallel between the Daynes' home base being on an island in the middle of a river and Tolkien's Beren and Lúthien living out their mortal lives on Tol Galen. Also the OG Minas Tirith made by Finrod and later corrupted by Sauron in the 1st age, was on an island in the middle of a river! Love it
Awesome story, and wonderful to see Cleo the Cockatoo.
But Ned did **not** spread the story. We know that almost implicitly. It is one of the memories of Catelyn was that the only time in their marriage Ned had scared her was when she inquired after Ashara. Ned **silenced** the story, not spread it. Ned adhered to the Littlefinger and Varys school of secrets, in that you don't say anything, and the story dies.
Catelyn even explicitly said "And Ashara's name was never heard at Winterfell again".
So why would Eddard Stark spread a story among random guardsmen, most of whom he would not have known well, but react with such wrath to his own wife, who had borne him an heir, and whom he would grow to love deeply?
Certainly, Ned might have loved Ashara, and very likely sacrificed his honor and reputation in some fashion for **her** benefit (the "miscarried" daughter), but it is highly unlikely he simply her as a cover.
It's also important to remember, that the story at Winterfell and at Starfall are **not** the same story being circulated. It's public knowledge "Wylla" was the mother at Starfall, but silence is the order of the day within Winterfell. It is never to be spoken of. This is the exactly paralleled regarding the relationship of Ashara and Ned. It is **public knowledge** in Starfall - Allyria apparently heard from Ashara, and Ned Dayne heard from Allyria, but within Eddard Stark's hearing, it is taboo (although clearly there is a story circulated in the common areas of Winterfell).
I totally love that you mentioned the possibility of Aerys being the dishonorer. Aerys is so obviously a candidate Ashara would need Ned/Brandon's protection from.
Also, if there was a romance with Brandon, why would Ned not make this clear? It is a well known fact that Brandon had ladies. Moreover, Brandon is long dead. The only people who still hold a candle for Brandon were Barbrey and Catelyn, and Ned has already thrown a far greater insult at Cat through the public presence of Jon. It would be very simple to simply say "she slept with Brandon".
Personally, I can't see the Howland theory, because it basically implies that Ashara makes her way from Dorne to the Neck without being seen, then spends the rest of her life cooped up within Greywater Watch without any contact from anyone, and nobody ever sees Lady Reed. Also, it's not necessary to cover up a marriage to Howland or any Crannogman to the extent that In Deep Geek contends. It's totally convoluted and unnecessary. Especially when one considers that the tale of The Knight of the Laughing Tree was Howland's tale, as Meera heard it from her father.
My ten cents.
1:43:30 Thats George not being good with scale/sizes and not being an expert on medieval combat, larger swords than Ice were used relatively often, and those swords wouldnt have been as light as Valyrian steel. Though as the second son, Ned likely wouldnt have had any practice using a sword of that size, but later on (the Greyjoy rebellion, etc) he should be accomplished enough to use it in battle. You don't waste that much Valyrian steel purely for a ceremonial sword, that is especially not something that would be done in the frugal and austere North.
thank you, I appreciate that, because I was pretty disappointed to hear that battle was NOT Ice vs Dawn
I never understood why certain fans want to take 2 random people from ASOIAF and say they are the same person without any evidence.
Filipino culture has the Father as "haligi" (post) of the home while the Mother is the "ilaw" (light). Song of Ice (Wall) and Fire (Light)? 😁
Also, in Tagalog, "lalake" (male) means grow (ascend), while "babae" (female) means descend. Echoing Jesus/Christ/DivineMasculine and Lucifer/AntiChrist/DivineFeminine (Mary Magdalene?)... Sad how the patriarchy is ingrained in the words, but we're starting an age when both are valued 🤍
Glad to see you’re still holding fast against the tinfoil Mance=Rhaegar or Arthur theories. However, I do often wonder about Arthur & Allyria’s older brother (name unknown so far) father of Ned Dayne. No backstory for him & his wife yet, apart from them being dead. I would consider a little outside bet on his name being Cramer Dayne perhaps. Grrm has used the anagram device before now. 💫
Cramer??
Mance Rayder - Cramer Dayne 😂 - it’s a shame though as the dates don’t add up. He must have been around in Starfall 9 months before Neds birth in 287 and the WOIAF puts Mance as a Black Brother visiting Winterfell with Qorgyle sometime between 286-288 so it doesn’t work. But for sure how the older Dayne brother & his wife is a bit of a mystery.
Great pt1
I like to think Howland talked Arthur out of it, but that’s because I buy into the Howland+Ashara theory. I think Arthur fell on his sword, throwing his life away instead of breaking his vows.
Just off the top of my head,
If Rhaegar was gay there would be subtle clues to something odd about him socially, like the maesters thinking he was weird and bookish or that he kept a small circle of friends, so that checks out. (Also similar to Aegon the Dragon)
But more importantly there would be historic parallels to let us know.
Oh, wait.
If Rhaegar (who was a famed musician)was in a relationship with Dayne (Kingsguard) and paid no attention to Connington that would parallel Daemon aka John (the Fiddler) crushing on Dunk(a future Kingsguard) and ignoring Alyn Cockshaw really well.
And remember Lem Lemoncloak is probably actually Rhaegar's squire Richard Lonmouth (the knight of skulls and kisses) in disguise. And house Lonmouth has a member that was famously gay , Joffrey Lonmouth ( the knight of kisses) And he was in a relationship with Laenor who is our Rhaegar parallel.
GRRM didn't add two gay relationships in his backstory and have them parallel Rhaegar for no reason. He isn't necessarily gay I mean, Jon has Satin and that's only romantic in the minds of some fans.
Then again, I have my suspicions about Aegon the Dragon and Torrhen stark. That romance echoes all the way to Ned daydreaming about how muscular Robert used to be.
All Targaryens are some shade of bisexual, It is their dragon nature lol
✨Bisexual Magical People✨
Plot twist: The Battle for the Dawn wasn't about sunlight, it was for the sword.
I am sure you've heard the theory, but I love the idea that Ned was let into the tower of joy, but it was on the way out that Ned and Aurthor fight because the kingsguard would want to take the baby and make the baby king and Ned promised to hide him and keep him safe.
I just think the dialogue for this moment would be awesome if it was a debate on what to do with the child. The wet nurse holding the baby. Aurthor saying that child is the future king. Ned saying the war is lost. This baby is my family. He is just a bastard child with no father to speak of.
if its in space, it could be a meteoroid (if small, I think currently defined as under 1m of diameter, used to be 10m), an asteroid or a comet.
As its falling, the phenomena that you see is a meteor (same as shooting star), and its a meteor regardless of what the source body of the falling thing/piece is - be it a meteoroid, asteroid or a comet. A particularly bright meteor is also called a bolide (its not exactly a formal or precise term, but roughly it should be a fireball of at least -14 apparent magnitude to be called that by astronomers, and/or detonates or can be heard, but geologists might use it for a meteor that on impact will dig out a crater).
And what survives the fall and you can find on the ground is a meteorite, again regardless of the parent body.
Coma is unrelated, that is the gaseous envelope around a nucleus of a comet that develops as it approaches the sun, like a tenous thin atmosphere around it, that can get surprisingly large. It is various ices from its nucleus sublimating in the heat as well as dust, and the solar wind and radiation pushes this same outgassing material into making a tail (or tails).
thank you!!
Day n (k)night is surely too obvious a pun even for GRRM
Ashara Dayne mysteriously disappears into the sea.
Ashara Dayne the _sister_ of Arthur Dayne.
The Sisters is a region afflicted by "the mark", webbing of the hands and feet.
She -dived- jumped from the " _Pale_ Sword Tower".
A Pail is another word for bucket... That holds water...
*Ashara is a Squisher confirmed.*
I need to move to cali so we can start a funky mythical band..👨🎤lol
Are their house words still a mystery? Not sure if I just missed it but I've never heard their house words before
I think Hashara is one of my favorite theories. Not so much about atypical love, but that they disappeared into the neck and kept their very volatile secrets over in Greywater Watch. Makes it so mysterious
I always change my mind on how Arthur Dayne died... Although, following George's habit of screaming the beats of history through every allegory/story within the narrative I vote "net".
Howland skin-changed him to create an opening during the fight/making Arthur end his companions and himself?
A dart (from a COTF-figure) to the Neck (notice the capital "N")?
Trapping a powerful figure in a net that is then ended?
Not sure what you're saying but it's interesting
Thanks!
Brilliant. Thank you :)
So my uncle is dutch so white, but my aunts dad and there family come from surinam so she looks mix. They have 2 kids with a darker complexion and 2 that are white passing. In relation to Dyanna Dayne, I think she has blond or silver hair and amethyst eyes
Any chance of bringing the old intro back? There were trumpets and everything was very epic...
I don’t want to think Ned would do this, but what if he pushed Ahsara out the window, to keep her from revealing that she’s not Jon’s mom, further protecting Jon. 😮
Ok, my 2 cents:
1) I think Arthur Dayne did die at the Tower of Joy, but he didn't know about Rhaegar dying until Nex taunted the Kingsguard. Arthur and the others had been there for some time while Rhaegar worked out a deal with the Martells (which is why he wasn't involved for a significant part of the war). And I think they were ordered to negotiate with Ned, but the taunting forced their hands. And Ashara was there at the Tower of Joy to serve as the Milk Maid for the baby (due to her own pregnancy).
2) I think Ashara Dayne had a love child with Brandon Stark. Probably got preggo in the dungeons before he died. He returned Ashara along with the Sword to Starfall. I think he agreed to keep her pregnancy a secret to spare Ashara's honor. Ashara's baby may then have been given to a lesser branch to raise, which drove Ashara to end prematurely. But that's ny little theory.
3) I think Darkstar was framed for the Lannister mutilation. I also think it wasn't Marcella, but the cousin that was brought along ad company. But in any case, I think he was a convenient scapegoat due to his personality.
4) My own personal pet theory THAT HAS NO EVIDENCE TO BACK UP is that Darkstar is Ashara's baby. But it is highly unlikely.
Still, all this is theory And I would LOVE for George to finish the series so we can get some answers. Until then, it's fun to speculate.
While I doubt Darkstar is the next Arthur Dayne, there's no chance in hell the tradition of Sword of the Morning is even maintained without House Dayne spending a lot of money and time training every man of their house to be as good as they can possibly get in the hope of having as many worthy candidates to wield Dawn as possible, to ensure the tradition is kept throughout the generations.
So Darkstar may be no Arthur, but he has to be pretty damn good. He's probably only one tier below Jaime Lannister in his prime.
I guess Arthur Dayne could be Jacqen Hagar if he's hiding out in Essos primarily and hiding his face while doing stuff in plain sight but I think he is chilling somewhere else
@7:00 well u also gotta be a formidable fighter to even have the right to wield it so that alone is already an advantage
Great video
Yay. Thanks!
32:45 “I’ll let you cook, baby” 🤣
Idk. I can't find the new stream :(
Will the red comet ☄️ come into the atmosphere? New Lightbringer material..?
29:00 Meteorites are rocks, comets are made of ice... comets do not leave rocks or metals. My favorite theory about the Tunguska Blast is that it was a comet and that's why there's no remnant buried in the permafrost.
I don't know why youd say comets do not carry metals or rock when they definitely can. Comets can vary widely in their composition.
Wikipedia has some discussion about the composition of comets, but generally the difference is that a meteor does not have a tail from outgassing like a comet does. Wikipedia also describes extinct comets (which I'd never heard of...) which no longer have any ice to outgas. Apparently my black-and-white distinction is
In The Middle Ages young high born girls often betrothed when they are toddlers and get married around 14 or 15. But often the betrothals fell through multiple times. Queen Mary 1 or Bloody Mary was betrothed multiple times.
Are weee backkk???
According to Velikovsky Venus was once a comet. The great sword of the sky.
hey david. i have something off topic for you. maybe you can give it a thought.
during summer holidays i ran out of books and at a marketplace book exchanged, i stumbled upon the 1962 2nd book of marion zimmer bradley´s dark over series "The Sword of Aldones". while reading i was wondering if this might have been an influnce to young grrm. there is themes of houses, there is a wall of ice (!) that seperates the habital parts from the unknown regions of the planet and swords representing duality.
there are characters named ashara and margaery. i read mists of avalon ages ago, and while thinking about the darkover series and a possible influnce on martin, i remembered that the 3rd part of avalon is titled "Book Three: The King Stag", which is current theme in your analyzations.
what do you think david? are the works of zimmer bradley an interesting influnce on martin´s work? might he even picked up core themes from her? from a timeline point of view, i could imagine it may be very likely the martin was inspired by the work of MZB. maybe there might be pieces to be found to decode his approach
About a glamoured Arthur Dayne at the trident in Raegar’s armour “There’s always a clue like a ruby” - didn’t a bunch of rubies explode forth from his breastplate ? Rhaegar is a tragic hero, his death is part of this story structure - isn’t Martin interested in subverting these genre-based expectations?
You should look up moorish art, they were blonde and blue eyed. former goths mixed with berbers and phoenicians, who conquered north africa and became muslim when caliphate came.
You dont find pieces of comets. They are made of frozen liquid and gas. The coma is just another part along with the nucleus that make up a comet.
Wouldn't it be a twist if: Lyanna had twins : Ameond /Agoen (jon & griff), N + A= V. Aurthur= Mance /Tormond= Hightower; they hid Val in the far north. Ashara helped hide and raise Griff. Or R+L= Val & Agoen. N+A=J and Jon really is a Stark. just rambling thoughts. lol.