Timeline Heresy: The Pact and the Night's Watch - A Song of Ice and Fire
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ส.ค. 2023
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Why did the First Men change their religion and begin worshipping the Old Gods of the weirwood? Why did they sign a peace treaty with the children of the forest when they were wining the war? I've got a great answer for you, and I'll also explain the real origin of the Night's Watch and generally just straighten out the timeline - but it might be a little bit of heresy.
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title image uses "Children of the Forest" by Magali Villeneuve - บันเทิง
I’m so deep into your theories that any other speculation seems like the heresy to me
Me too brother. I would say balls deep, but I don’t think that would be sufficient depth for such theories.
💯
Same! My head canon is all LML theories 😂
as a fellow member of the church of starry wisdom, amen 🙏🏻
@@UnderBarrowBogdon’t sell yourself short brother, I’m sure your balls are plenty deep in these theories
imagine writing a book in the nineties then having some stoner in 2023 figuring out your whole narrative through symbolism. Thank you David, Thank You Internet
GRRM is a big time stoner. His favorite smoke is Green Crack, but he get's down on Sour Diesel as well. Check out the interview he did with Hightimes magazine from 2009
That's how he came up with "Green Seer".
@@ModMax69no fkn way I love this man
@@ModMax69 ha! green crack is horribly good. sour diesel a workhorse lol.
no wonder the books are so damn good.
One connection I just thought of and haven't seen anyone else talk about: The weird seasons that Planetos has.
The seasons changing in length is more than just "odd". Seasons on a planet are created by the tilt of the planet's axis. Compared to its orbit around its sun. Planets that rotate on a 90° axis have no seasons.
For Planetos to have seasons that change in length means that the tilt of its axis is changing continually. (Plus the long night happening when the sun is blocked out).
A theory is that Earth got its axis tilt when we were hit by something big and the moon was formed.
So, what if Planetos had normal seasons (a stable axis) until the meteor hit, caused the long night, AND sent the planet's axis to "wobble" as it tries to eventually settle again.
Interesting thing from the hammer of the waters video, you made an off hand joke about the children using weirwood roots to cause things to collapse, and while it was a joke, it got me thinking of the real world phenomenon of “liquefaction” that occurs in earthquakes, where the vibrations hit a certain frequency and the ground turns into quicksand essentially. The descriptions of moat cailin look like the aftermath of liquefaction, everything is sunk into the ground, some structures more affected than others. The destruction of real world Port Royal is a perfect example of what happens to a town and fort when liquefaction occurs. Buildings that survived are tilted and leaning, others crumbled into rubble. And, like moat cailin, the town was flooded by a tsunami in the aftermath of the earthquake.
Just something I thought you’d find interesting, given this “disaster hunters” series you’re working on! Thank you for putting out such interesting, well produced content! My ADHD thanks you!
veey interesting and cool comment, thanks!!!
The hammer of the waters is what GRRM named his water bong.
The hammer of the waters is what GRRM named his water bong.
The Stag King's hammer that slammed into the heart of the Dragon Prince in the waters of the Trimark... A reflection of the Hammer of the Waters that the Children of the Forest drove into the heartlands to end the war. Both sent the world further into darkness and war, and ended the reign of the current monarchy. Literally changing the landscape, shaping the future...
Praise Garth!
I don't see how Rhaegar being defeated sent the world further into darkness; maybe the Mad King shouldn't have been a literal piece of poopoo. He is the one that sent the world into darkness, and it emerged once the Mad Dipshit was deposed. The Realm prospered greatly under King Robert Baratheon, First of his Name
@@pyropulseIXXI King Robert allowed the slow rot of the kingdom to begin festering. The Small Council was full of rotten lords. His wife the Queen was having incest babies behind his neck with her brother. Who killed the last king. Robert was not a great king. And after his death, the War truly began. And as a result of all of this, winter is coming. The realm is boned because of the Stag King of Boning.
Robert's reign was horrible whilst Rhaegar seemed like he would have made a great king!
@@jessemansfield9992 Right because betraying your wife, running away and allow your entire future kingdom to fall into complete chaos while also being completely obsessed by a prophesy are things that great kings do
Legends of Garth the Green's breeding prowess also support a "bottleneck" hypothesis. He was probably just some dude who laid mad pipe at the right time, weak pullout game, and next thing he knew he was most people's grandpa.
I know it might be dumb, but i’m so happy my man’s got a sponsor and an in-video ad
A westerosi wedding without at least 52 deaths is considered a dull affair
The amount of symbolism associated with the Moon Maid, the stories of Galladon, and the Sword of the Morning that you talked about is just incredible. George, his editors, and amazing theorists, like yourself LML, are simply geniuses. I would never have been able to make these kinds of connections through the books but you especially have taught us all so much about ASoIaF, mythology, religion, and symbolism and I can't thank you enough. Praise Garth and keep up the good work! :)
Arya IV is for me one of the most important chapters in ASOIAF. Gendry talked to Arya (dressed as COTF and named Squirrel by Greenbeard).
The Hammer of the Waters = the Smith figure = the magician
"He won't remember me, but he used to come to our forge." The Smallwood forge had not been used in some time, though the smith had hung his tools neatly on the wall. Gendry lit a candle and set it on the anvil while he took down a pair of tongs. "My master always scolded him about his flaming swords. It was no way to treat good steel, he'd say, but this Thoros never used good steel. He'd just dip some cheap sword in wildfire and set it alight. It was only an alchemist's trick, my master said, but it scared the horses and some of the greener knights."
She screwed up her face, trying to remember if her father had ever talked about Thoros. "He isn't very priestly, is he?"
"No," Gendry admitted. "Master Mott said Thoros could outdrink even King Robert. They were pease in a pod, he told me, both gluttons and sots."
"You shouldn't call the king a sot." Maybe King Robert had drunk a lot, but he'd been her father's friend.
"I was talking about Thoros." Gendry reached out with the tongs as if to pinch her face, but Arya swatted them away. "He liked feasts and tourneys, that was why King Robert was so fond of him. And this Thoros was brave. When the walls of Pyke crashed down, he was the first through the breach. He fought with one of his flaming swords, setting ironmen afire with every slash."
"I wish I had a flaming sword." Arya could think of lots of people she'd like to set on fire.
"It's only a trick, I told you. The wildfire ruins the steel. My master sold Thoros a new sword after every tourney. Every time they would have a fight about the price." Gendry hung the tongs back up and took down the heavy hammer. "Master Mott said it was time I made my first longsword. He gave me a sweet piece of steel, and I knew just how I wanted to shape the blade. Only Yoren came, and took me away for the Night's Watch."
"You can still make swords if you want," said Arya. "You can make them for my brother Robb when we get to Riverrun."
"Riverrun." Gendry put the hammer down and looked at her. "You look different now. Like a proper little girl."
"I look like an oak tree, with all these stupid acorns."
I love how far this channel has come; it really is such great work. From choices of fantastic artwork to the quality of presentation. Congrats.
I keep returning to the thoughts that the Hammer was what created the difference between the weirwoods in Westeros and the darkened twisted version east of the impact site.
Either the Hammer was used intentionally to prevent some corruption within the weirwoods in the east to spread to the whole network. A sort of intentional amputation.
Or that the twisted corruption became a secondary effect of the sundering and cut offing.
Could also be some combo, there’s narrative room to create something that entails both.
I literally can’t sleep at night without listening to your videos or streams. Your content has given me a whole new way of looking at stories and I appreciate it so much.
I love your channel and theories. I hope you never stop making these videos.
not any time soon!
@@DavidLightbringer @olka7326 I hope GRRM is taking notes because Daves' theories will stay true for me no matter what, hahaa
Having watched your videos on and off for years I keep getting caught off guard in this video by reminders that a lot of the theories I take for granted now are new to a lot of people
That Long Night / Last Hero / Night's King conundrum remains a puzzling 'chicken and egg' situation for me. Which came first? 😀
Vids like this make me convinced that Jon's ultimate purpose is to somehow revitalize the weirwood net for a higher purpose. So many of the figures we remember from early ages are egocentric and hubristic, as you said. They used their power (ie - knowledge of green magic) to further their own ends. The true heroes -- the sleepers who were sacrificed to become the trees actually saved humanity, but *only* the trees remember.
Men forget. But Jon is heavily foreshadowed to sacrifice everything to save the world.
Dear Artist Formerly Known As LML, long time listener but first time catching your content in a while as I had to take a break from the ASOIAF content for a bit. Imagine my joy when I came to your page and found a whole slew of new theory vids and livestreams on all my favorite topics. You've clearly been busy and Im gonna enjoy catching up on all the fun. Anywho, I hope you and yours had a great holiday. Cheers, brother.
yep still holding it down
I dont think i've ever laughed at a TH-cam content creators in video advert before... thats definitely a first! superb script and acting. id love to see Rheagars attempts to comprehend the nutritional information on a box of rainbow magic cereal 😂😂😂
In regards to the theory that Azor Ahai might be the villain, I find the name Eldric Shadowchaser significant. Note that it’s shadow CHASER-not shadowhunter, not shadowkiller.
Usually “chasing” something means a person WANTS that thing they’re chasing. An addict is chasing the dragon. A man who likes heavier women is a chubby chaser. Maybe Eldric is called shadowchaser because he was known for his lust of dark magic and the dark deeds he committed to sate that lust. Maybe he was chasing whatever powers eventually led to the Long Night, of course associated with darkness and shadow.
Ehh idk “chasing away” something is a very common usage of the word chase. To “chase away” is to “force something to go away”
The hero figure Azor Ahai never did kill the others or whatever the power behind the long night was, he “drove back the darkness,” which is in line with chasing away something but not hunting it down and destroying it
Heh? This chubby woman would like to know what a man who likes slender women is called?
@@nicolam4513 unfortunately "skinny chaser" doesn't have the same ring to it, with the double "ch" at the start of both words
I know I'm late to this comment but when I say this gave me a light bulb moment I read this and my face went 😮😮😮
@@nicolam4513 "bony banger"
just got my greenery delivered and now this... absolutely living my best life, thank you lml!
Praise Garth!
I used to binge watch the news. Now I binge LML vids!
(Also, I usually don't like in video ads, but you nailed it with reading Rhaegar! Bravo, ser!👏)
"Valyrian steel spoon" LMAO! Congrats on your first sponsor!
I want a Valyrian steel spoon lol
Would not Galladon more likely be an homage to Galahad? Receiving a sword from the maiden and being a perfect knight who Brienne wants to base herself off sounds very much like Galahad, a perfect knight in a series of tales including a magic sword.
My brain went right here as well, and now I can't unsee Brienne as Galahad and the only person pure enough to access the Holy Grail..
BUT THE PRICE
Ooo good point!
that's a great call, and explains adding the G to Alladin. And you can see the natural confluence of ideas, with Alladin's lamp and the holy grail. It's all fire of the gods-related, conceptually, and both characters are strongly associated with virtue. Very cool.
Someone else added that Virgo correlates to the Greek Dike, the goddess of Justice, so further evidence for Virgo as the Moonmaid and the inspiration for the Just Maid story
thank you for including artists' names with their work ♡
recently heard a musical composition by Marc Hanania called 'Starfall' and couldn't help but think of your phenomenal theory crafting as I listened 🌌☄️🌕✨️🐉
I loved this! Its great to see you getting back to creating these videos again. Fab to see Rheading Rhaegar 😂 and loved the art you shared. This might be my new favourite! So succint and beautifully explained.
Also, waiting for Mels TH-cam channel 😂
This video is incredible and i might have to watch it again to process all the data... Also it feels crazy to hear that shoutout to cultural anthropology!
I think you are maybe the second person i´ve heard mentioning that discipline when talking about GRRM and the inspiration for his work. I´m a student of that career and i´ve never imagined that the thing i´m into would have this kind of fun and interesting stuff for ASOIAF and fantasy/fiction in general.
Praise garth and thank you for the great depth content you manage to achieve on this inmense world of song of ice and fire.
I've been following your stuff for awhile now, (love the content, btw,) but this is the first time that the whoooooole picture has been put together in a way that makes everything make so. Much. Freaking. Sense.
Love this. I think you've hit the nail on the head. Or...the hammer on the waters? Whatever, you get the idea.
Great stuff man. I really think this is the backbone of everything involving the lore behind ASOIAF. Keep crushing it!
Just finished work, sat down with a big glass of red wine and this just dropped! Bring it on!
These produced videos are just so good you know. I think you should also produce a Green Men of the Nightfort one.
i'm going to, in this series :)
You had a very "To Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything, Julie Newmar" moment when you revealed your promo code.
"No one say anything frivolous, I'm having a SIGNIFICANT experience".
i’ve been chanting timeline heresy all day at work waiting to watch! another amazing video as usual!
This is the best present ever. I forgot my phone at work last night and I turn it on today and boom! New LML
Wut wut first sponsorship! Wooooo! I get pumped when my favorite creators GET PAID. That's awesome, congrats!
top 10 best ad reads ever. 😃 So fun that I watched it and will again on the next viewing.
Great video! I think it is interesting that there is a Sea Dragon point in the Bay of Ice and a Sea Dragon tower at Dragon Stone that icy queen Visynia resided in. I also wonder what's going on with the Sand Ship of Dorn.
I did not know I was watching an ad until half way through it. Good job with that, keep up the good work.
I remember in one interview that the seasons take long to pass for a reason, and that would be later explained. A cataclysm of that scale could certainly have disoriented rotation and the angle of a planet enough so that seasons would take a lot longer.
I used to find LML theories difficult to accept and gave up on George Martin so I immersed myself back into Middle Earth, Wheel of Time, Dragonlance and learned to be a Drummer.
A few years later, I’ve revisited and I totally get you now.
Great work and a huge volume of vids.
If Azor Ahai died and was raised before he smithed light bringer, that would technically make Nisa Nisa a widow at the time, right? As in Widow's Wail?
Man, your production in this video is truly top tier. Incredibly well done, in all aspects. But above all your choice and use of art always stands out to me. Praise Garth!
God man, these reading Rhaegar segments give me life. Such a polite hostage!! Err… I mean… “guest”…
Found the channel a few days ago and ive spent my time catching up on everything and i just want to say bravo. And thank you for your obvious love and dedication
"The Other Other Wight meat" is the best pun I've heard all year.
Love that you got sponsors, thats a milestone! Keep it up, this channel is wonderful and unique, thought provoking and entertaining.
I think that's the first sponsored ad that I've fully watched
Dude, I put on this video while doing chores and stuff and was confused, then delighted and tickled when the sponsorship started. Maybe I'm easily entertained, but I found it hilarious
thank you I really appreciate you saying so, as it's my first one!
@DavidLightbringer No problem! I remember you saying that your first one was coming up soon, and that it would be fun. I'd say you succeeded!
Rhaegar's prophetic ad was just golden😂😂😂
As a show-watcher and not a book-reader, your channel helps me vicariously live through you and the other the book-readers to explore the extraordinary world GRRM created and kind of forget how angry I am about the end of the show. I learn all the good book stuff from you guys without the decade-long time commitment or the angst of waiting on a final two installments to a series I am certain isn't going to be finished at all. :)
There wouldn't be legends of Children of the Forest using blood sacrifices of their children to accomplish things if there wasn't some truth to it somehow. Where there is smoke in GRRM's legends, there is usually fire.
well there was defo blood sacrifices before the weirwoods, and then just add in westerosi racism against the children. doesnt matter if the children were doing the sacrifices they defo would have been blamed.
Well, we do have Jojenpaste.
It’s also easy for the fog of history to confuse children with Children. They may have sacrifice their own people, they may have sacrificed children of the first men, or they may even have sacrificed their own children, but it’s easy to see how things could get mixed up
Thank you so much. Watched all the Nightbringer content after watching this. All of this comes from your content. What if the Others we’re always just weirspirits of winter and the first men started chopping down the trees because of their scary resurrection powers etc. Then the meteor event happened so they turned to the singers who carved faces into the trees to trap them from coming out. The watch was formed around the trees to make sure they stayed put and built the wall the keep man out of their home, the land of always winter. But…some men preferred to live beyond the wall as free men unburdened to lords and continued to trap the spirits by carving faces into the trees until they became over populated and the Others just lost their shit. The wildlings were never meant to stay beyond the wall. The wall is there to keep man on the other side which has been forgotten through history? This line of thought is just me trying to connect so many of your amazing theories together LML. Hope you enjoyed the links I’ve just thrown together. Praise Garth
Was just rewatching thr other timeline herecy videos last night, great timing!
ive been following you for a few years now afaik and it very much feels like a proud mum moment seeing you get your first sponsorship
I love how the ironborn videos keep multiplying! Can't wait to see them!
almost like they're breeding...
🦑🦑🦑
prophecies promised, prophecies delivered
Ladies and gents, we finally achieved sponsoring on David's TH-cam channel 😍
Congrats and thanks to all members of our beautiful myth head community
34:07 I'm loving your approach with these latest videos. It's really nice to have the Ironborn to look forward to
Best magic spoon ad I’ve seen from any creator so far! 😂 Well done
Wow, thanks!
The content was A+ as always, but the sponsor plug was the best I’ve ever seen.
thank you sooo much for saying so!
Oh yeah, I've missed the produced content. You are the best, dogg. Well done
Excellent video, as always, love your work
What if there isn't a Sacred Order of Green Men, it's just a story about the creation of the Nights Watch that got confused
and
The God's Eye is Alcatraz for someone who can travel through the weirwood net but can't cross water
and
the Night's Watch are supposed to be defending the CotF who live North of the Wall from someone who can travel through the weirwood net but can't cross water (ice wall = also water)
I wondered about the first thing, if there is no watch other than the NW, at least after the murder of NN and all that. The Gods Eye could be intended as a crater lake too, which means nothing happe Ed there till after the LN. that's playing very loose with geology tho crater lakes take years and years to form
My main Mane! Thanks for this and all your content! You truly show your love for the arts! Keep it up Lightbringer!
The idea of the age of Heroes happaning after the long night is basicly confirmed by the story of Brand the builder building the wall. Think about it if the age of Heroes happaned before the long night how on earth did he survive for such a long time this winter would have taken decades and I doubt that he would have survived it. Also the Wall had to be build after the long night because well duh what other thing is it for. Also I doubt that it was some other guy George wouldn't have writen this in if that was the case
Bran the builder was supposed to have started with building the wall and working on storms end later. This has always been said to have been shortly after the long night
@@richardiv385 Yeah so it confirms this timeline completely
Nice Portishead reference at 24:29
Hi David! Recently discovered your channel and can't wait to check out your entire back catalogue!
Praise be to great, green Garth
Not all the first men failed against the andals. The north under Theon Stark beat them back at the battle of the weeping water.
The Magic Spoon ad slapped 👏
Great video. Awesome to finally see it all laid out in a concise video. Praise Garth!
Love the Ad!! So excited for you to receive these well deserved partnerships and opportunities!
I've been waiting excitedly since Sunday!!
another great video david, thank you for all the in depth content keep it up!
On the topic of timeline heresy; what do you think about the first long night actually being 8000 years ago? The more I look into the story I find it impossible to believe that hundreds (if not thousands) of noble houses survived for 8000 years, or even half that. In the real world great dynasties rose and fell like leaves in Fall, yet in asioaf they are practically immortal until the coming of the primary books when all of a sudden so many of them are on the brink of extinction.
Man, your theories are so compelling. I daresay it gives life to the shell of my existence.
Thank you for keeping me entertained while I work, your videos are the best!
Dude your ad segments are so enjoyable I can’t skip them lol
I'm so happy you finally have a sponsor, you really deserve it
I deeply appreciate the advertisement in this video. 10/10 integration, extra points for the Rhaegar RP.
Loved the energy of this video!
Well done! One of your best videos and your most succinct theory to date. More please!
Fantastic video! Well done👏👏👏👏
Loved that AD lol might buy some cereal and eat a bowl while watching the next stream!
Ooh, my favorite subject: the Children of the Forest ♥️ They are a neverending source of wonder and lore.
Nightbringer sounds like a sweet heavy metal band name
Lmao very nice way to promote your sponsor. Didnt see it coming. I would love to see a serious "Reading Rhaegar"-Segment too though
Something to remember is that winters on Planetos can last years naturally. The meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs created a winter that lasted a decade and killed off everything on land bigger than a cat. The one that hit the arm of Dorne must have been less destructive as there was no mass extinction that we know of, although the plants and animals must be more resilient to long winters, although the long night lasted more than one generation.
Therefore while magic may have influenced how the long night was established and maintained, it may not have been quite as bad as we might think. Maybe plants could grow in the warmest areas in what could have been the summers.
Otherwise mammoths, elephants, horses, cows and deer would have likely died out along with most life of the planet.
There may still have been of tens of thousands of humans or more after this time, for the events following the long night or at least for genetic diversity.
It makes sense if the moon dust and rock maintained a constant concentration in the atmosphere for much of that time by gradually crumbling after the initial crack. Still, multiple winters and an ice-age.
The ecology of Planetos has always been a mystery to me because of this. Could all the animals and seeds hibernate and survive being frozen?
Thank you for another insightful theory stream. Reading Rhaegar promoting cereal was a hoot! I needed that chuckle today. Thank you!
Congrats on the sponser! Loved seeing you use Reading Rheagar for it was great👏
Such a fascinating topic. Thanks David
I looked up "nisse" on a translator. pronounced like: KneE-Seay, Close enough to Nissa Nissa. So great job with using that! Your connections to things tend to just blow me away. Fantastic referencing!
Maybe the Children destroyed The Arm of Dorne to stop The Others from leaving the continent? Like things were looking bleak, so they at least tried to save the world by breaking The Arm
Son of the Morning thank you for opening our eyes
Commenting for the 100k push, love you LML
Omg!!! Thank you so much for that Portishead reference❤
23:20 i just realized this is kind of lining up with the astrological interpretation of the book of revelations.
Thank you so much for making these videos for all of us while we wait for Winds to never materialize!
Best ad sponsorship. Very fun. Actually watched
Woot! Caught this same hour it was posted, good start to the morning
A Valyrian steel spoon would be pointless, but cool at the same time
This is so interesting and makes total sense. Loved it.
Love the Portishead joke 😂 that album is amazing
The painting at 00:22 is amazing
I don't know if this theory exists, I think Shareen is going to be Nissa Nissa. Stannis will sacrifice her to awaken dragons. This will play a part in Jon's resurrection. And will also happen as there is a meteor shower that brings the long night. I agree that sacrifice Nissa Nissa should be considered an evil act but it might be timeline heresy that says that it was Azor Ahai who did it when in fact he might just have been reborn by that act. Also, it's either that act or whatever Euron is doing that will actually cause the long night with the meteor shower, tsunamis and the wall breaking.