Very interesting. As a farmers son who's dad never really talks much (kept himself to himself but was clearly not keen from what little he did say) I always felt uneasy with fox hunting but lots of people around me as child we very pro fox hunting, because "country living". They liked the status, the going to the hunt ball, hob knobbing. My Dad would just say its all bollocks and leave it at that. This has put it into a good perspective, especially as my Dad was a Tennant farmer.
It's quite interesting to see the different approaches to hunting in the UK compared to Norway. Here, hunting is a common activity, with ~10% of the population being licensed hunters.
I love these. There is so much raw power politics behind hunting in the UK. It bled over into the empire, as well, which was more my historical bailiwick. "Conservation parks" are just hunting reserves, and it's not surprising that the Royal Family is behind the WWF. They claim like half of Scotland for their hunting ground! Meanwhile, hunting has completely different class connotations in the US. There is a high class hunter (flies around the world, mostly for birds, hires guides, has hunting properties, etc), a middle class hunter (sadly, dying out), and a wc hunter, who is mocked as a gun crazed hillbilly, often as not. Keep up the good work.😇
The silly thing with the royal family is that whilst they were behind WWF, much of their land e.g. Balmoral is an ecological desert with not much benefit beyond deer and grouse hunting. There is some great duchy of Cornwall farmland, where regenerative practices are encouraged, that are a notable exception
Point of information - the Grey (or English) Partridge is a native species, not an introduced species. The Red-legged (or French) Partridge, the one shown in your photos, is the introduced species. It was only introduced in the 18th century.
Is there a reason you avoid the term gentry/landed gentry when talking about the consolidating farmers during enclosure? Asking as an American with limited understanding of English early modern historiography. Also what about the yeoman during enclosure?
We have similar and different problems here in the american south. Historically hunting gamebirds like quail were seen as high class while hunting rabbits and deer with hounds was lower class. Historically the land owners didnt care where the houndsmen hunted as long as they culled deer. There are tons of conflicts between land owners and hound hunters nowadays and the practice is becoming illegal in more and more areas.
Olli is probably too young to remember the Liberty and Livelihood March of 2004. One of the most uplifting days of my life. When 407,791 country people marched through central London in the largest demonstration at the time, to protest against Blair's divisive, unnecessary, discriminatory bill to ban the hunting of wild mammals with 'dogs'. I was in charge of coordinating Victoria tube station and have never seen a broader cross section of British society, many of whom had travelled great distances at great expense. For many participants it was their first visit to London. And yes, the blue-bloods were outnumbered 1000 to one!
I think that this video is so correct on many levels as it pertains to the UK. But I think you are a non-hunter and I think it's legitimate to want to be able to hunt.
In the Western United States, hunting is a poor person's thing. Something done by frontiers men and small farmers. Because of British influence, rich people hunt too, often for birds. Rabbits and deer are seen as food more than sport.
The aristocracy still own a third of the land making them the largest land owner .They still make better landlords than corporations charities and bankers .
There are few things wrong with this analysis:- 1. The 19th century Foxhunting craze was a reaction to the conditions created by enclosure . It was not Meynell that planted the hedges between Market Harborough and Nottingham. Meynell did not like the hedges set out by the farmers on the newly enclosed land, he thought they got in the way of controlling his hounds . Those hedges were the result of enclosure just as they were elsewhere in central and eastern England . The foxhunters simply used that environment and adapted to it. Fast chases over grassland with challenging hedgerows to negotiate became the essence of the sport, not the killing of the quarry (as you point out it is a very inefficient way to kill foxes). 2. It is a very dubious assertion to claim that farming in Leicestershire was held back by the hunts in the thirties. With the exception of the years of the Great War British agriculture had been in Depression since the 1870s because of it's exposure to cheap imports from the Americas and Australia. Leicestershire has much heavy clay which was hard to plough with horses or the small tractors then available, beef and dairy made more sense until subsidies for arable products were brought in after WW2. 3. As you point out the hunts are still active today although some of the great aristocratic estates still exist the hunts could not operate without the cooperation of owner occupier farmers who are far more significant now than they were in the 19th century. Many of those that ride with the hunt today are farmers or from farming families, the hunts simply would not exist if most farmers prevented them from going on their land. Most farmland in England is owner occupied. Perhaps the farmers are behaving like the old aristocrats.
Im a farmer who lets the hunt in. And i dont know any farmers here who do it. We let them in begrudgingly but do it just because they always have. They are nothing but a nuisance. Id rather it was banned. What you may not realise is to stop them can be quite a lot of bother. And they may just come through anyway. My neighbor does stop them and they have went in anyway a few times. Normal farmers, at least here don't do it.
@@jamesthomas4841 only one neighbour doesn't. And its bother to stop them. I might eventually, ill have to see. I meant that no neighbours are in the hunt. Its just full of posh cunts, not normal farmers. Bad wording on my part
Farming is intertwined with hunting shooting and other country sports we should be united the idea that the class system plays such a outlining role is a misunderstanding the working class is prevalent in hunting it is a symbol of a matrimonial union man should have the right to hunt for it is putting nature vs nature a hounds stamina and numbers vs the foxes wily nature and intelligence.hunting will never be surrendered to the likes of you or the antis for if one domino falls the others like shooting fishing and even farming will fall vive le chasse
I only recall the Hunt appearing a few times on the family farm. That said I have come to learn that it was with great contention. My Granddad hated the hunt. I even recall my family and their friends talking about the Hunts. Unfortunately they could be extreme. One recalled, how the Hunt arrived, and initially politely stated that they were a hunt and that they were going to ride on the fields. They were asked to leave the property. Alas, it was a dry August (typically not a bad thing for the wheat); the Hunts master pulled out a Zippo, and lit it. Would go on to infer that if the hunt was not allowed by them, it would be unfortunate shame that their fields burned... So naturally they were allowed to hunt. On ours; I think it had been a statement that they should not run across the fields due to the dense, well maintained hedges (prevented jumping or gaps to pass) and fairly deep ditches, So it was generally a case they would follow the established tracks.
Kinda. Where you hunt becomes a huge issue as the US doesn't have anything approaching freedom to roam, and hunting on public lands is often to the highest bidder for the license. Essentially the aristocracy still rules the land.
Also, a lot of the westward expansion depended on denying the right to hunt and fish to the native nations. Pretty much every treaty ever signed guaranteed the tribes the right to hunt and fish in perpetuity. Also, most of those treats are worth less than they paper they're written on. As recently as 2021, the Governor of Oklahoma tried to extort the tribes with the fishing and hunting compact.
They are all pests and need control, currently there is massive damage being done by deer because of a failure to control them . An animal becomes a pest only when it starts causing damages due to overpopulation or a clash with other species / crops . It’s the job of hunting to maintain a healthy balanced population .
I take issue with your conclusion that Fox Hunting is cruel. To be clear I started to learn to fox hunt at age 15. When I was 17, I became a Whipper-in for a AFHA recognized Hunt. At aged 17 I was appointed as "The Junior Huntsman". At age 18 I was awarded "my colors". I was the youngest professional English Huntsman in the USA. Do you know what we hunted? 99% of our game was coyote. The only fox I and my hounds ever caught had rabies, or was bald from mange. A bald , wild mammal in winter will freeze to death , or starve to death or kill and eat all your chicken, or other game birds. I have no problem with stopping the spread of a disease that will kill you, and wipe out both domestic and wild mammals. Coyote, at least a healthy one, cannot be caught by English or American Fox Hounds. I am 72 and still am an active "hunter". I have never taken a healthy fox or coyote. It is not a cruel sport. It is a "blood sport". But if you want to ban all such "sports" we should start with football, NASCAR, and the hunting of all deer, and "game birds", as well as wild pigs.
How is the wild pig situation going? For a while it was all over the news and then the media moved on. Do you have any up to date information about them?
This video was really detialed and informative
Very interesting. As a farmers son who's dad never really talks much (kept himself to himself but was clearly not keen from what little he did say) I always felt uneasy with fox hunting but lots of people around me as child we very pro fox hunting, because "country living". They liked the status, the going to the hunt ball, hob knobbing. My Dad would just say its all bollocks and leave it at that. This has put it into a good perspective, especially as my Dad was a Tennant farmer.
ditto
It's quite interesting to see the different approaches to hunting in the UK compared to Norway. Here, hunting is a common activity, with ~10% of the population being licensed hunters.
I love these. There is so much raw power politics behind hunting in the UK. It bled over into the empire, as well, which was more my historical bailiwick. "Conservation parks" are just hunting reserves, and it's not surprising that the Royal Family is behind the WWF. They claim like half of Scotland for their hunting ground! Meanwhile, hunting has completely different class connotations in the US. There is a high class hunter (flies around the world, mostly for birds, hires guides, has hunting properties, etc), a middle class hunter (sadly, dying out), and a wc hunter, who is mocked as a gun crazed hillbilly, often as not.
Keep up the good work.😇
The silly thing with the royal family is that whilst they were behind WWF, much of their land e.g. Balmoral is an ecological desert with not much benefit beyond deer and grouse hunting. There is some great duchy of Cornwall farmland, where regenerative practices are encouraged, that are a notable exception
Point of information - the Grey (or English) Partridge is a native species, not an introduced species. The Red-legged (or French) Partridge, the one shown in your photos, is the introduced species. It was only introduced in the 18th century.
Is there a reason you avoid the term gentry/landed gentry when talking about the consolidating farmers during enclosure? Asking as an American with limited understanding of English early modern historiography. Also what about the yeoman during enclosure?
We have similar and different problems here in the american south. Historically hunting gamebirds like quail were seen as high class while hunting rabbits and deer with hounds was lower class. Historically the land owners didnt care where the houndsmen hunted as long as they culled deer. There are tons of conflicts between land owners and hound hunters nowadays and the practice is becoming illegal in more and more areas.
Olli is probably too young to remember the Liberty and Livelihood March of 2004. One of the most uplifting days of my life. When 407,791 country people marched through central London in the largest demonstration at the time, to protest against Blair's divisive, unnecessary, discriminatory bill to ban the hunting of wild mammals with 'dogs'. I was in charge of coordinating Victoria tube station and have never seen a broader cross section of British society, many of whom had travelled great distances at great expense. For many participants it was their first visit to London. And yes, the blue-bloods were outnumbered 1000 to one!
Well said
I think that this video is so correct on many levels as it pertains to the UK. But I think you are a non-hunter and I think it's legitimate to want to be able to hunt.
In the Western United States, hunting is a poor person's thing. Something done by frontiers men and small farmers. Because of British influence, rich people hunt too, often for birds. Rabbits and deer are seen as food more than sport.
Good video i don't let the hunt pass on our land i detest it so do all my neighbours so there hasn't been any hunting here in years
Were hares both beasts of the forest and beasts of the warren? Was the hare an upstart in the hierarchy of animals?
Whoops, missed the subtitle
Would a land owner be within their rights to shoot the hounds ?
Only if they were worrying his livestock but it would still be a stupid thing to do .
The aristocracy still own a third of the land making them the largest land owner .They still make better landlords than corporations charities and bankers .
There are few things wrong with this analysis:-
1. The 19th century Foxhunting craze was a reaction to the conditions created by enclosure . It was not Meynell that planted the hedges between Market Harborough and Nottingham. Meynell did not like the hedges set out by the farmers on the newly enclosed land, he thought they got in the way of controlling his hounds . Those hedges were the result of enclosure just as they were elsewhere in central and eastern England . The foxhunters simply used that environment and adapted to it. Fast chases over grassland with challenging hedgerows to negotiate became the essence of the sport, not the killing of the quarry (as you point out it is a very inefficient way to kill foxes).
2. It is a very dubious assertion to claim that farming in Leicestershire was held back by the hunts in the thirties. With the exception of the years of the Great War British agriculture had been in Depression since the 1870s because of it's exposure to cheap imports from the Americas and Australia. Leicestershire has much heavy clay which was hard to plough with horses or the small tractors then available, beef and dairy made more sense until subsidies for arable products were brought in after WW2.
3. As you point out the hunts are still active today although some of the great aristocratic estates still exist the hunts could not operate without the cooperation of owner occupier farmers who are far more significant now than they were in the 19th century. Many of those that ride with the hunt today are farmers or from farming families, the hunts simply would not exist if most farmers prevented them from going on their land. Most farmland in England is owner occupied. Perhaps the farmers are behaving like the old aristocrats.
Im a farmer who lets the hunt in. And i dont know any farmers here who do it. We let them in begrudgingly but do it just because they always have. They are nothing but a nuisance. Id rather it was banned.
What you may not realise is to stop them can be quite a lot of bother. And they may just come through anyway. My neighbor does stop them and they have went in anyway a few times.
Normal farmers, at least here don't do it.
@TransportSupremo Inertia. If you dislike them so much why put up with them?
Your neighbours don't
@@jamesthomas4841 only one neighbour doesn't. And its bother to stop them. I might eventually, ill have to see.
I meant that no neighbours are in the hunt. Its just full of posh cunts, not normal farmers. Bad wording on my part
Farming is intertwined with hunting shooting and other country sports we should be united the idea that the class system plays such a outlining role is a misunderstanding the working class is prevalent in hunting it is a symbol of a matrimonial union man should have the right to hunt for it is putting nature vs nature a hounds stamina and numbers vs the foxes wily nature and intelligence.hunting will never be surrendered to the likes of you or the antis for if one domino falls the others like shooting fishing and even farming will fall vive le chasse
Don't be so scared with making statements like this! Your videos are great and you care.
I only recall the Hunt appearing a few times on the family farm. That said I have come to learn that it was with great contention. My Granddad hated the hunt. I even recall my family and their friends talking about the Hunts. Unfortunately they could be extreme. One recalled, how the Hunt arrived, and initially politely stated that they were a hunt and that they were going to ride on the fields. They were asked to leave the property. Alas, it was a dry August (typically not a bad thing for the wheat); the Hunts master pulled out a Zippo, and lit it. Would go on to infer that if the hunt was not allowed by them, it would be unfortunate shame that their fields burned... So naturally they were allowed to hunt.
On ours; I think it had been a statement that they should not run across the fields due to the dense, well maintained hedges (prevented jumping or gaps to pass) and fairly deep ditches, So it was generally a case they would follow the established tracks.
Burning a crop! Great story, thanks for sharing
Super interesting!
So wild watching this as a western American where hunting has always been basically a human right for sustenance.
Kinda.
Where you hunt becomes a huge issue as the US doesn't have anything approaching freedom to roam, and hunting on public lands is often to the highest bidder for the license.
Essentially the aristocracy still rules the land.
@@lukecarlson6791 yes, depending on how you define "human".
Also, a lot of the westward expansion depended on denying the right to hunt and fish to the native nations. Pretty much every treaty ever signed guaranteed the tribes the right to hunt and fish in perpetuity. Also, most of those treats are worth less than they paper they're written on. As recently as 2021, the Governor of Oklahoma tried to extort the tribes with the fishing and hunting compact.
DRESSED AS A LOLLIPOP LOOOLLLL
Best video!
If you kill animals just for fun, why not kill pests?
they do but without hunting there would be far less habitat and certain species as its hunting that makes maintaining habitat vital
They are all pests and need control, currently there is massive damage being done by deer because of a failure to control them .
An animal becomes a pest only when it starts causing damages due to overpopulation or a clash with other species / crops .
It’s the job of hunting to maintain a healthy balanced population .
...dressed as a lollipop. lol love it.
great vid
I take issue with your conclusion that Fox Hunting is cruel. To be clear I started to learn to fox hunt at age 15. When I was 17, I became a Whipper-in for a AFHA recognized Hunt. At aged 17 I was appointed as "The Junior Huntsman". At age 18 I was awarded "my colors". I was the youngest professional English Huntsman in the USA. Do you know what we hunted? 99% of our game was coyote. The only fox I and my hounds ever caught had rabies, or was bald from mange. A bald , wild mammal in winter will freeze to death , or starve to death or kill and eat all your chicken, or other game birds. I have no problem with stopping the spread of a disease that will kill you, and wipe out both domestic and wild mammals. Coyote, at least a healthy one, cannot be caught by English or American Fox Hounds. I am 72 and still am an active "hunter". I have never taken a healthy fox or coyote. It is not a cruel sport. It is a "blood sport". But if you want to ban all such "sports" we should start with football, NASCAR, and the hunting of all deer, and "game birds", as well as wild pigs.
How is the wild pig situation going? For a while it was all over the news and then the media moved on. Do you have any up to date information about them?
I'd say the context in the video is so specific to Britain that it can't be applied elsewhere
Absolute BS, this chap know sweet FA about farming!
Opinions and experience differ depending on were in the country (or indeed world) you farm and how you farm.