Falling From The Sky | Trans World Airlines Flight 841
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ค. 2024
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TWA Flight 841 was a domestic, scheduled passenger flight from John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York City, en route to Minneapolis-Saint Paul International Airport in Minneapolis, Minnesota. On April 4, 1979, at or around 9:48 p.m. Eastern Standard Time (01:48 UTC), while flying over Saginaw, Michigan, the Boeing 727-31 airliner began a sharp, uncommanded roll to the right, and subsequently went into a spiral dive. The pilots were able to regain control of the aircraft and made a successful emergency landing at Detroit Metropolitan Airport.
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It's amazing that this plane did not break apart while dealing with jet fighter maneuvers. Anytime I invert my car I tend to erase the dashcam before the police show up.......
The 727 was built like a tank. They don’t make ‘em like that anymore.
@@Mr727sim well they do have cargo planes
All Boeing's were then and still are today made like this. All those people owe their lives to Boeing and the way they have always constructed their planes. All the people nowadays complaining about Boeing bc a door blew out or software problems, but time has proven over and over that if you are ever on an aircraft in fear of breaking up, these are the planes you wanna be on. How do you think Airbus is as successful as they are today? Bc of Boeing and the mistakes they've learned from and fixed over decades and decades of engineering.
Wise moooove, eXpeclly during da holidays when hospitality from dem friends & families is soooooo genrous!
As a flight engineer on 727-200s back then , I will share my knowledge of the case, not judging anybody. My info is from within TWA, because at that time I was having twice a year sim in their JFK base, and it was presented to us in class! with detailed photos of the aftermath. So this is what I remember.
Cruising at FL 390, they decided to do this trick of extending only trailing flaps 2° , to reduce the nose pitch up (simple physics, the turning moment, would drop the nose, thus less frontal area, less drag, less fuel flow etc).
Before they moved the flap lever to the 2° notch, the flight engineer, had to pull a circuit breaker on **P6** panel labeled **"L.E VALVE"** so slats would remain retracted.
( at 2° normally, only #2 and #7 extend ).
In this case, with the c/b pulled, #7 deployed inadvertently, while cruising at mach .80 , causing the incident with the roll it created. #7 is the one before the outermost one. Imagine the turning moment it created.
As we were told, what saved the day , was the lowering of the gear....
Speed limits were exceeded, so extensive damage resulted.
On slides they showed us, I remember , deformed gear doors, trailing edge flaps honeycomb pieces torn apart etc.
To conclude, I had my basic sim training in Kansas City with TWA, a great company ,a great school...
On the flight levels the -200 was able back then with JT8D-9s, it was 310 westbound, 330 eastbound. 390 was unheard of...
Thanks for reading this.:)
Why would the slats deploy even with the pulled circuit breaker?
That's not true. At 2 degrees, 2,3,6, and 7 slats deploy. And the FE went to the bathroom, the Captain did this and pulled the circuit breaker himself. He didn't tell the FE, so when this guy came back he sat down, noticed the popped CB, and took it on his own to push it back in. That's what happened.
Yeah, FL390 sounds a little high for a loaded 727 then.
@@dragonmeddler2152 FL390 is a LOT high for a 727! This airplane likes to go real fucking fast but it does NOT like to go high.
@@Flies2FLL so does Russian TU-154b-2 or TU-154M. FL370 is good to fly at.
Wow, just imagine trying to get out off a roll when you’re dropping that fast. Hats off to the crew for averting disaster.
You do realize that, if this was an Airbus aircraft, they were all dead. At the speed that they were traveling, the Airbus computer logic would have denied the Pilot's request for landing gear down.
Being from Detroit at the time I recall this well. A farmer found the slat in his field up by Saginaw.
Damn! Imagine just harvesting and it shuts off and you find a slat, “THESE DAMNED KIDS!”
Edit: Wow thx
It really wasn't. See my post above. I worked on 7840 in the 80's. It flew fine.
Mark Hull ok, this is what I was told. I’ll edit my comment, thanks.
@@kubla777 Oh, no problem. It did have some slight waving. Structure wasn't compromised.
By coincidence not far away 7 years after the "Windsor Incident" where a farmer found a coffin in the field outside Windsor Ontario in the summer of 72 that turned out to be from the DC10 that lost a cargo door thus losing some of it's cargo and almost crashing which was a dress rehearsal for the worlds worst air disaster Turkish Airlines DC10 Flight 981 1974.
This is the famous "twisted sister" airplane. I flew at Express One International and we had this airplane as a cargo jet, N220NE. I flew this airplane many times. The fuselage was twisted from this escapade, and you could NOT get the rudder trim right. It always flew sideways. What happened in this situation is that the captains at this airline believed that by extending the trailing edge flaps to the first detent that they would increase wing area [true] and thus reduce fuel consumption [FALSE]. But by putting out the first position of flaps on a 727 you are also putting out some of the leading edge devices. THUS, some "captains" at this airline devised the idea of pulling the circuit breaker that controlled the leading edge devices and then went to the first flap position, thus increasing wing area without extending the leading edge devices, something that Boeing never intended and was a big NO NO! In any case, the flight engineer in this case went to the bathroom and then came back in the cockpit and noticed a circuit breaker pulled out. "Hmm. That's strange?" he said to himself, and then pushed it back in. The leading edge devices then extended at .84 mach...
34,000 feet of crazy descent later after several barrel rolls [And a bunch of missing parts!] they got the airplane back under control. I've been told they went to 1.05 mach, they broke the speed of sound, 727's have done this many times accidentally. Boeing build quality. Try that with an A320 some time, you'll wind up in a coffin if there is anything left of you. In any case, they got the plane under control and landed in Detroit; It never carried a passenger again. It was converted to cargo and the last I heard of it was in 2005. Check the airliner lists online, I think it is parked. Frankly, I think it should have been recycled in 1979, but that's me-
So interesting - thanks for sharing these details!
I flew for TWA in the late ‘80s and that’s what we heard from other pilots.
Thanks for the detailed insight. When I saw the plane roll in the vid, I assumed they were all goners. Off topic, but what do you think of the 737 Max. Is it a bad design or just pilot error?
@@rl1800 Bad design. The 737 is about 300 bandaids and some duct tape trying to keep a 1968 design that is cheap to build alive. They should have ditched the 737 and kept the 757; They would have sold twice as many planes. The sad thing about this? The 757 and the 737 have the same fuselage, only the cockpit and wing are different. The 757 has a 767 tail, so there are actually more individual parts in the 737 design than the 757; I suspect it would have been cheaper to keep the 757 design. But I'm not a Boeing accountant...
Boeing used to build quality, not anymore. Useless mentioning Airbus in this case!
It was a good thing they climbed to 39,000 before the problem started. They never would have had enough altitude to recover otherwise.
One mystery is how a tree branch got into the landing gear. Had the plane in fact dived as low as the tree tops?
@@cchris874 What is the source for your comment? Please link to it.
@@buddyrogers1353 Google "tree branch stuck in the right landing gear", will take you to Google Books.
Man. What an absolute sick driver of a pilot 👏🏻. Plane rolled was falling at incredible pace and he managed to get it under control and land it. Unreal
So, my very layman question would be: "Why would the captain bulk erase the tape as it could have had critical information as to why the flap extended?" The "crucial information" I am surmising was the discussion of pulling the circuit breaker. Again, if the pilot was innocent, the tapes could have strengthened his case that he did not mess with the flap extension.
Ps. My other question is, with two rolls, I would think there would have been some serious injuries.
From when they went into a dive to when they landed at Detroit was ~45 minutes so regardless if the Captain actually erased the CVR the recording of them in the dive and the events leading up to it would have been taped over.
Thank God they made it safely on the ground, thats the beauty of it.. I took a flight out of Detroit once and after 20 minutes in the air we had to come back as one of the engines weren't reading properly. I have the upmost respect to our pilots and crew, they risk their lives to make our flights safe... I love the 727 such a beautiful machine made ever made.. great vid Allen..
I was on a Northwest flight out of Detroit headed to Las Vegas many years ago that returned to the airport shortly after takeoff and was quickly surrounded by fire trucks on the runway. Fortunately there was no fire. Sounds like we might have been on the same flight.
I felt like the crew were being thrown under the bus - right up until the revelation concerning the erased tape. Shady!
Larry you are probably unaware that the CVR was adopted with the agreement and understanding that it was for use in the event that the crew did not survive an incident. When the crew survives they can give there information. The bulk erase function was installed to support the agreement. The crew survived, landed, taxied to the gate and parked the breaks. They completed the cycle required to erase the tape.
@@jayreiter268
@Jay Reiter Bullshit they were covering their asses , Gibson was an air traffic controller at Chicago Center before he went on to fly for TWA and the old timers that knew him knew the back story which was when the FE left the cockpit to use the head the circuit breaker for the slats were pulled and the pilots set the flaps to 2 degrees to see if the aircraft would preform better , the FE came back and didnt know what the pilots had done and saw the Slat CB had popped and reset them causing the inboard slats to extend .
Except this was an emergency landing lol, they should not have erased the tape.
@Clint Stephens
Exactly. Even not being a pilot I would have had enough common sense NOT to erase the CVR....
Why would anyone erase the CVR after an emergency landing in a rollercoaster? I can’t think of anything but they’re trying to hide something.
You're not supposed to ROLL the darn things, Cap! Wow. Great recover, regardless of what the NTSB said. He saved all his passengers' lives. Go T-DUB!
You can put me in the group of sticking up for the crew. I have nearly 8,000 hours in 727's and this is something I would have never tried. As far as the "A" system hydralics, when you have a leak you instantly lose all A system fluid in the blink of an eye.(3500 +/- psi system) I knew many TWA pilots that flew with Capt. Gibson prior to this incident and none of them think that he is guilty of pulling the LE breaker and lowering the TE flaps. He was light enough to be at FL390 so there would be no need to do this. This airplane eventually ended up as a freighter with Ameri-Jet and several of my friends flew it. I have many fond memories of flying 727's. Great airplane. Thanks for the video Allec.
Hypothetically what would motivate a flight crew to do something like this? I understand why management would like the idea of saving a few bucks on fuel or better on time performance or whatever, but why would a flight crew think it's worth it?
@@Milkmans_Son "supposedly the airline had been conducting a fuel-saving "contest". "
Which flight sim..P3D or X-plane?
I heaved a huge sigh of relief when they landed safely. The most comforting words in these videos are “everyone survived.”
Great vid Allec. I will say this. I LOVED being a passenger on these 727-100 series jets. They were so well made and so very reliable and attractive. Always a terrific ride for sure. So glad that whatever the cause, everyone and the plane arrived OK. J
Quite an intense flight there, though it had a positive ending in where everyone survived. That one had me clenching my teeth there, to be honest. Happy New Year, Allec, and I look forward to your future episodes!
Those pilots did one insane job there saving that plane despite the insane fu*k up of pilot error possibly. That was a true miracle they had enough time falling that height and rolling that violently and G forces to survive without structural failure of the plane. That must have been terrifying to be a passenger on that flight but man what an outcome and EVERYONE SURVIVES! :)
@Mighty Muffins
Indeed if they wouldn't have been at FL390 I have a terrible feeling they would have crashed.
Not my favorite a/c except in very had wx.
They were very solid and well designed.
Landing without flaps? That must have been a fast one! Lots to unpack in this story, and while there is a lot that doesn't add up it really does look like the NTSB is the omniscient-must-never-be-questioned deity here which is concerning because even the NTSB is not above making mistakes
As a passenger who doesn't know anything about flying an airplane, I will always remember this video as an example of how it is possible to survive in a plane that has flown upside down.
Upside down is nuttin.
Happy birthday Allec. Thank you for always delivering excellence 💐🇿🇦
I didn't recall this near tragedy as I started to view it, so I had no idea the outcome. When the aircraft landed SAFELY, I was overcome with relief & joy! I can't imagine the moments of sheer terror the poor people on that plane went through as it corkscrewed towards the ground 😫 I hope those folks have all gone on to live full, productive & joy filled lives, as they were ALL so lucky to have been given another chance at life 🙏 don't know if the pilot's should be praised or smited, since the cause of the incident is in question, but if I had been on that plane, well I would have kissed the S.O.B!
I just flew to Jacksonville Florida and back. That being done, now I can resume watching these videos from the safety of my living room.
i thought i was the only one who did that. i watch these videos up to about 2 days before i fly and then the day after my trip, back to the videos.
i was working at a nearby sector at cleveland center the night that this happened. the bumpy ride at FL350 caused the request to climb to FL370 - which then was wrong altitude for direction of flight - which the controller was unable to grant due to traffic. so TW841 was cleared to FL390. what happened was the flight engineer had left the cockpit. the captain knew the aircraft was too heavy to make FL390 until some fuel burned off, so he instructed the copilot to pull the slat breaker - which is located on the engineer's panel. on a 727 the flaps and slats deploy together. this gave the plane the ability to go to FL390. after leveling at 39, the engineer returned to the cockpit, saw the breaker popped, reset it, out come the slats and over she goes. many passengers and cabin crew were seriously injured.
years later i was sitting at a bar in buffalo relating the story to a friend. overhearing this was another guy at the bar. he was the engineer.
Thank you, Allec, for another great video!!
Sure the plane landed safely and everyone survived but NOW YOU’RE IN DETROIT!!!
Is that supposed to mean something.
Dont Know oh yes. Devote a lot of your time figuring it out.
@@geoffreyludkin8672 What makes you think you are worth 1 minute of anyone's time?
Dont Know well so far you’ve spent two. Take a little advise and grow up.
@@geoffreyludkin8672 You are and will always be, a loser.
Brilliant as always thank you - AJI.
Couldnt the "get them up" scream mean an order to stop trying to use the 2 degree flaps - to get them back to retracted position? Just thought it makes sense...
It makes a lot of sense, didn't even click my mind, thanks..
I bet that's what he was really referring to, not the air brakes.
That's definitely a possibility.
@@NPCLIVESMATTER723 also the climb to 39k
Indeed, rather than shouting “retract the flaps” which would’ve pointed the finger of blame right at him.
Want people to believe you? Don't go erasing the tape.
It's too bad Richard Nixon wasn't aboard...he could have warned the pilot not to do that.
Tampering with something that collects evidence - he had a lot of gall appealing the decision 🤨
The Captain is a hero in my opinion.
The NTSB was right in their assessment of what caused the "upset" of the B-727.
I am a retired Captain and flew the 727. Gibson was trying to avoid the head winds and climbed to FL 390. The airplane was too heavy to fly at that altitude so Gibson told the Flight engineer to pull the leading edge flaps/slats circuit breaker so they would not extend when he extended the trailing edge flaps to 2 degrees. The engineer pulled the wrong circuit breaker and the leading edge devices extended and one failed because the max speed for extending the leading edge devices is 230 knots. The "A" system failure was because the hydraulic fluid was lost due to the slat's departure from the wing. The Yaw damper problem was due to the "A" system failure.
The gear problem was also due to the "A" system failure but the gear can be extended by cranking each gear down with a hand crank, through three access panels in the cockpit floor.
The "fly-by" was not needed but may have been done to confuse the issue.
Gibson and his crew lied about the incident but the NTSB and EVERY 727 pilot in the world knew that they were covering up a self-induced, near fatal accident.
"Hoot" was fired.
Did you happen to read Scapegoat" by Emilio Corsetti? One argument he makes is that the alleged maneuver was never confirmed to have been used by a single 727 pilot, either in person testimony or in writing. It was, he claims, pure rumor. Where is your evidence every 727 pilot sided with the NTSB?
Also this below: "I have nearly 8,000 hours in 727's and this is something I would have never tried. As far as the "A" system hydralics, when you have a leak you instantly lose all A system fluid in the blink of an eye.(3500 +/- psi system) I knew many TWA pilots that flew with Capt. Gibson prior to this incident and none of them think that he is guilty of pulling the LE breaker and lowering the TE flaps. He was light enough to be at FL390 so there would be no need to do this."
When I read seemingly credible claims by experienced 727 pilots, such as the above, and yours, could you suggest how we lay readers might deal with these contradictory claims? Is there a more definitive source of evidence?
Happy Birthday Allec!! Hope you had a wonderful day...
In the first part of the video, I'm thinking Capt Gibson is one skilled pilot & that he's recovering control of his aircraft from some system failure he had no control of. But, then, we get "the rest of the story."
I love your channel. Suspenseful and then the technical explanations afterwards are excellent.
Im so happy when they land safe
Yeah, me too. So many of these do not get that sort of happy ending!
Thank you very much for picking that incident up!
Hay Alec great job on these videos your doing a great service to the people who perished in these accidents, so others know and can learn from these incidents thanks
It's Allec not Alec dufus.
I had a dream last night I was in a plane that crashed immediately after take off, but before it hit the ground, I jumped out the window and lived. So weird how watching all these videos eventually brought on a crashing dream for me.
Thank God everyone survived. As a passenger, I can only imagine what they were thinking when they became inverted. God knows I'd be sitting two inches higher.
i had a similar dream not too long ago, it was very vivid. i didn’t jump out the window, but i somehow got myself out of the plane when it crashed and was on fire. if only it were that easy in real life 😬
it’s incredible that the crew recovered from such a dire situation and landed safely with no casualties. i’m assuming there were injuries but damn. i understand the backlash the captain got because of the supposed events laid out by the ntsb... such a complicated case.
Don’t worry, I have dumb, unexplainable dreams all the time. Sadly, erotic ones.
Just stupid ones.
Several years ago I dreamed I was using the plane's bathroom when it started spiraling towards the ground, and I was angry because I didn't want the toilet to be where I died. Then I woke up before we hit the ground.
Anyone remember the exact number of people who have fallen without a parachute and lived? Higher than you think but seriously don't test it you'll die.
Finally, Alllec is back!
Dude saves the doomed plane ,,& gets his name run threw the mud!!! Thanks NTSB
The plane goes inverted, it’s yawing to the right repeatedly, you get false readings related to the landing gear, any landing configuration is a problem, you have to make an emergency landing and you decide to erase the CVR once you get the thing on the ground, but you deny the flap adjustment procedure?! Sounds fishy...
Fishy or not, I am just glad everyone survived. I got nauseated just watching and listening to the video. Thanks for the upload, Allex.
The plane freaking went inverted and the first officer had no idea? I find that hard to believe too. Especially since the captain warned the flight crew it was going to happen. I don't buy the idea of the first officer trying to calculate the ground speed in that instance. A passenger jet flying inverted is always an emergency condition and that demands the basics that every pilot learns in flight school: Aviate, Navigate, Communicate IN THAT ORDER!
@@DeltaFoxtrotWhiskey3 I concur but am sure there was a lot fu*k this airline, and plane and sh*t I don't know what to do or how the f*ck to get it under control. Rather just delete all than expose any likely hood of incompetence.
Even if the CVR is erased - what about the FDR? Surely, that would indicate what the Pilots did - second by second.
@Slarti Bartfast there was not proof of conversations in the cockpit but given the circumstances I have merely voiced my humble opinion of what may have been said 😉
Everyone lived. That's what matters. They all got through it. Good flying to right the plane and get it out of a rolling nosedive. Nice vid, Allec :)
What did you do with the time you saved not typing eo?
In April 1979, the runway this aircraft landed on was Runway 3L. (Later renamed 4R/22L when runway 4L/22R opened in 2001). At the time it was 10,500 feet long and DTW's longest by 500 feet.
I love the videos where nobody is killed or hurt. My favorite kind.
At cruise speed in a no turbulence area of airspace you can be sure a bunch of passengers and cabin staff were not buckled into seats. There must have been at least some significant bumps and bruises.
Interesting to note that some newer aircraft have a system that automatically deploys small amounts of flap to keep the wing efficient.
Awesome video Allec!👍👍
Your videos are so good Alecc! They got me interested in aviation 👍👏👏❤️
Wow. Great start to 2020, Allec!. So what really happened? The CVR. issue sounds a bit shady. But at least everyone survived. Thanks for this one
EVERYONE at TWA was doing that little trick at the time to get "over the hump". Rumor has it that they did it while the F/E was using the lav and when he came back, saw the circuit breaker for the slats pulled, and he pushed it back in.
Joel: Can you explain "over the hump" in more detail ?
Thanks !
@@hellosunshine1090 it's a euphemism to get up to speed without losing the Mach. At high altitudes is difficult to do. Setting flaps 1 or 2 while disabling the slats allowed for a slight deflection of the flaps and gave the airplane that extra lift. Most pilots knew about it
@@joelt4416
Excellent insight.
Next time I'm at the controls of a 727, I'm ready for that mode, right ? Lol...Happy New Year 2020 to ya !
How do they discover this little trick ? What does a pilot when flying at cruise press any button and Wait to see its effect ?
@@andrewsimonsen6583 you need to be a pilot to understand how this happens. :)
"Ladies and gentlemen, the captain has turned on the bowel evacuation light..."
Time for some light-hearted comedy. I was on a TWA Flight in 1977, crossing the Atlantic, east to west. The most gorgeous Air Hostess went to a man in front of me and said "Sir - would you like some of our TWA Coffee?" The man looked at the beautiful Air Hostess, and with a wry grin, he replied: "No thanks, but I wouldn't mind some of your TWA Tea".
@@peterduxbury927 A friend of mine pointed out me when I had left my ticket on her table that the way they designed the cover with TWA TWA TWA printed in several rows across the jacket with a little imagination that word would be obvious . Their ticket logo never looked the same to me,and yes,I think i remember the beautiful flight attendant and like my youth I miss them both,
@@michaelarmstrong11 I'm don't really know if the Americans are fully familiar with the 'T' word in mind, and (I think) they prefer alternative names, but I have no idea what these names are! Back in TWA Days, (the 70's), flying was much more relaxed - that's for sure.
+Peter Duxbury American here..."twat", I get it. (I wonder if the Air Hostess got it?)
He needn't turn on such a light as it was apparently fully understood with the passengers and in accordance with such an incident was fully complied with.
That captain could be considered a hero his hands more than full and to keept his composure in the face of certain death he had emience balls of steele, but can also be considered a criminal and held liable for disabling the circuit breakers so it's a catch 22, in the end even though it was a hell of a save they should have NEVER been in that position to begin with so basically he brought it on himself but almost killing 200 people in the process.
I always appreciate these more nuanced and mysterious accounts! I appreciate your content, looking forward to the next video!
Good video as always!
Captain Gibson is a hero the way i see it. Company just trying to clear their own asses. Hail captain and crew!
Love this one, Allec! Well done! As a former TWA avionics mechanic, this story is legendary amongst ex-TWA'ers. Love all the great shots of this aircraft in different paint schemes, along with a few other TWA planes.
Wow .. Gibson’s got the plane down and save many lives , but he shouldn’t have erased audio recordings which he and the other pilots denied .....
Okay He was lucky he managed to bring the plane down and save his own life too . But really no body really knows what really took place. That being said . I’m glad everyone survived
Yes, there is someone who knows what happened. His name is Occam.
@@jamesp9226 So does Occams Razor say that the most likely outcome was a component failure in flight rather than a cover up by the flight crew.
IMHO it feels like a component failure to me. The problem is there is no evidence either way and to blame the crew is unfair. You can blame them for deleting the CVR but not for causing the incident without more evidence.
@@111doomer its possible they deleted it not knowing if it would incriminate or exonerate. but they may have done everything correctly and still be unsure enuff to erase it to b safe.
Gibson and his first mate were known to FO. they got caught, the engineer didn't know what they did and punched the "flap control" circuit breaker when he got back from the head, he didn't know that they were flying out of the envelope, and when he did the aircraft did its thing as designed. Rollin and poll em, down. They capt Gibson an first officer should not have bragged of their " accomplishment and fu" to the engineer. Something with similar outcome happened to a British Aw 111. The report goes so far but there6more to it than the "report". At least the Brits can keep the lid on Pandoras box. That must be the Irish in all the brits
@@robertstack2144 What they were accused of doing was recognized, within the industry, as a common procedure in the 727/100
I miss TWA
Best pilots ive ever seen ,and never will. good job 👌
They are FAR from the best pilots
I remember something about the NTSB finding other circumstantial evidence that the slat breakers had been pulled. Something like some of the markings for the breaker being rubbed down as if that breaker had been repeatedly cycled. This was apparently a common thing for a lot of pilots of this type aircraft at that time. And if memory serves, the 727 could be a thirsty aircraft and pilots were encouraged to save fuel.
I remember this incident as it made all the newspapers around America and Canada and there were plenty of air disasters at the time . I am open to any possibility however it is rather strange that after such a horrific experience the Captain would flick the switch on the runway to erase the CVR.
He didn't erase the CVR as the three of them were so busy flying the plane to Detroit, running through the checklists and then coordinating the evacuation that there was no time to devise a cover story, nor did the CVR ever cross their mind. The investigators never even considered the possibility that there was a fault with the CVR nor did they ever analyze/inspect the CVR for any faults.
Awesome!
Nice one Allec
‘Everyone on board survives’ - always great to see 👍
...and 💩s his pants
wow - this was unreal - talk about pucker factor - imagine the passengers !!
Pretty sure most of them never boarded an airplane ever again.
If they has sand in their butt cracks...
You'd have *Diamonds*.
Fake Name : 🤣🤣Every time l stop laughing, l get started again! Thanks !😂🌈
Fake Name : 🤣🤣Every time l stop laughing, l get started again! Thanks !😂🌈
My mind takes me back to the movie Airplane! "Okay everybody now, get in crash position"
Great job by the pilot and flight crew
I went to aviation maintenance school in the 90's, one of our teachers (prior TWA mechanic) told us the rest of the story. The NTSB didn't believe the pilots because once you push the button to erase the tape, it begins recording right away again, and then the pilot said "There, let the bastards figure that one out".
Wow! Well that was very unwise of him. Besides, no pilot is above the law no matter how cunning his moves. I guess Gibson got his comeuppance.
@@liamb8644 Could be the pilot was using the 2 degree flaps to increase speed or decrease fuel consumption and things went "south". He pulled his fat out of the fire and kept flying but expect he didn't pull that trick again after that near catastrophe.
> then the pilot said "There, let the bastards figure that one out" < Around the time investigation of this incident concluded I heard pretty much that same account (third-hand), plus how supposedly the airline had been conducting a fuel-saving "contest". This was a period of spiking fuel prices, and everyone was scrambling to deal with it. For example, my company tasked me with looking into the fuel savings (if any) from taxiing a twin on just one engine.
@@marcmcreynolds2827 It is indeed a revelation to learn that Captain Pilot Gibson did this. I had heard many rumors that (on 4 - engine Passenger Jets), the Pilot can fly it on three engines, to save on the 'running hours' of an engine, which spreads the Maintenance Periods further apart, saving on costs.And Overall Company Profits.
@@marcmcreynolds2827 I've heard this "fuel-saving" story as well. If the company really was promoting this sort of thing, the pilots would have been better off telling the truth and that the company expected these sort of "efforts", probably would have cleared their names if it was an unwritten company policy....
wow first allec video on 2020 , cool
I certainly don't know anything about flying but no matter what happened....Captain Gibson was a hero that night. His actions to recover control of the plane saved everyone on board.
Love the Intro!
Good ending, video was magnificent, bravo mate
That was fun seeing that it just whoosh in the air
I just love that song that plays at the end!
It is! I'm going to have it played at my funeral
Well done!!
I would hate to be the one who cleaned that cabin after this....
Maximillian Genius you wouldn’t have to thanks to gravity and physics
@@BitsEUismynamelilbish the shit would still be in the cabin
Shitty job
Fascinating to say the least.
Before everyone burns Gibson at the stake, it IS common to erase the CVR after a flight. For exactly the reason he stated. However, something doesn't fit (not because of Gibson's action) because the "Bulk Ease switch will erase the entire tape, not just a certain section. So it seems even that had problems.
It was stated that the bulk erase switch only is operable when the plane is on the ground and the parking brakes are on. One possible scenario is that the plane landed and exited onto a taxiway where they stopped briefly to assess the condition of the aircraft. During this time the parking brake was applied and the CVR tape was bulk erased. Since the plane's electrical system was still powered up the CVR immediately started a new recording. When it was considered that it was safe to taxi the aircraft the parking brake was released and the aircraft was taxied to the gate. The length of tape that had recording on it would be about the correct length for the time it took to taxi to the gate. Just a theory... I would expect that SOP would be to hit the bulk erase switch after arriving at the gate and applying the parking brake but just before shutting the aircraft down.
@@Vincent_Sullivan Thanks, that is a very credible explanation. I don't know if the NTSB published what was left of the recording, but it would be interesting to hear.
How much time do you have in airliners?
I’ve got about 20,000 hours in 9 different types and have never erased the CVR after a flight, nor is it common practice anywhere I’ve flown.
I wonder how many of the passengers never flew again after this?
100%. if its not 100% it shonuff is 99%. it took me 6 or 7 years to fly again after the plane i was on dropped suddenly. was horrific. was defo beyond turbulence, but we regain control after 15-30 seconds of hell
I'd probably be less scared of flying. Tbh
33,3 Anders, I know it's unlikely but I had a similar experience. You weren't by wild coincidence on UA 1028, LAX to ORD in 2008, were you? Diverted to Denver due to injuries?
All of them
Sure they didn't appreciate captain Gibson's dark humour. Especially those who occupied the restrooms.
AFTER BEING INVERTED - you'd think that the passengers weren't prepared for ANY other kind of landing!!! 😲😳
I can’t imagine how scary it would be to see the ground pop up in your cockpit windows and see you are rolling toward the ground
Excellent video 👍✈️
Pilot was awesome great crew👍👍👍👍👍...damn he saved the passengers plane....he should not be so condemned
Thanks
That pilot tried to get his reputation back but he could never get it back. He may have recovered that plane but he could have just as well not recovered it. And think of those people on that plane, it would be very hard to ever get over what he did to them. It only takes once to get caught doing the wrong thing to destroy your whole life. This wasn't something the captain had never done, this is something they had been doing so long they got sloppy and pulled the fuss to the aileron before it was back in place. It almost cost 100 lives.
That beautiful boeing 727 I wish they would still fly😭
such a beauty and fast take off, steep landing
Awesome pilot skills
When I went through A&P school, my one instructor had previously been with TWA for many years in maintenance and told us about this flight. This is the first time that I have gotten to see it in detail! From what I remember, everyone survived but there were some very serious injuries among the stewardesses. He told us that the ultimate cause of the accident was that they pulled the breaker...
Plane falling apart, parts dropping off of it in flight..but it's the crew's fault. Makes perfect sense.
Nothing dropped off until they deployed the flaps.
Happy birthday dear Allec
May you have thousands of beautiful years in your life🙂
The plane dropped 34,000 ft from FL390 to 5,000 ft before the pilot could control the spiral. If they had descended to FL310 to avoid the wind, one of the options presented to ATC, they would have crashed.
But then again, maybe the emergency wouldn’t have happened. Suspicion was that the pilots partially extended the slats to increase lift at 39k ft, which seems awfully close to the edge of the envelope for a passenger aircraft of that size and vintage.
@@bchadaway7469 Fair point. In any event, glad it had the ending it did!
@@bchadaway7469 dont forget the altitude itself playeda role(no pun) in the uncontrolability of the aircraft. descending to fl310, and doing the same thing they tried at fl390 may have resulted in a still controllable aircraft.
The controllability of a plane is better at lower altitudes. The air in thinner at high altitudes and the control surfaces have less effect.
@@rrknl5187 Thank you for that. My point was just a general observation! Good info though; thank you
Amazing to think that a commercial jetliner of that size and weight could go inverted and even go into a nose down position and still be able to recover. Whether at fault for causing the issue or not the fact that the crew was able to recover flight control and land safely is a miracle in my eyes. I’m just a novice here but one would think the inverted ness alone would have pushed the aircraft beyond its structural and aerodynamic capabilities.
The co-pilot is conspicuously absent in this drama. Hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil. Clearly this was a common practice at the time.
The slat extending theory was stated to be a frequent practice by the NTSB, but never used by others. Which is true? Looks like the NTSB put considerable weight on the CVR wipe, that no crew member admitted to. Even if normal to erase after landing, why would anyone do this after what had happened, unless it's the beginning of the coverup.
David you are probably unaware that the CVR was adopted with the agreement and understanding that it was for use in the event that the crew did not survive an incident not spy on the crew. When the crew survives they can give their information. The bulk erase function was installed to support the agreement. The crew survived, landed, taxied to the gate and parked the breaks. They completed the cycle required to erase the tape.
If they tried that highspeed cruise two degree flap setting while killing the circuit breakers to the forward slats, something didn't go as planned. Admitting to doing that might have been a career ender but they should have not erased the CVR after landing, which seems to be a dead give away.
@@jayreiter268 Then why did no one admit to wiping the tape? If it was only for use during the event, how would a crew in the midst of a crisis use it? I don't understand.
@@jayreiter268 oops, misunderstood the agreed upon use of the CVR. Though for its use only if the crew dies, means that lessons learned from near misses would most likely be incomplete. If the FAA agreed to erase the CVR after ANY significant transient, they had their heads up their collective asses. There is no such thing as too much information when you are trying to improve safety. The industry I worked in for 40+ years learned that about 50 years ago.
David the flight crew does not use the CVR. The CVR is meant to be recovered after a fatal accident. It is one of "black boxes" (orange in color). The early type as used in the 727 used magnetic tape. Most of the ones I worked on were not very readable as the tape had been recorded over so many times. The modern ones use digital memory. As far as why no one admitted erasing the tape, they erased the tape routinely. On this occasion no one remembered doing it. Kind of like me this afternoon. I do not remember if I set the bottom latches on the the shop roll up door.
The Boeing 727 was the best example of a classic Airliner!!
B727 - complete loss of control - lands safely!
MD80 - complete loss of control - everyone DIES!!
Thank God
I, always, wear my seat belt. Always.
marie joy • With pockets of unexpected turbulence, yes ma’am! And then we might be on a flight someday where there’s a failure of some kind, like this one, and next thing we know we’re on the ceiling and other unbelted passengers are crashing into us.
What about if you have to go to the restroom? 😄
@@jaspartheghost526 In a situation like an inverted Aircraft, the whole Cabin will need to pay a visit to the restroom together.
Lol 😂
marie joy I agree with you. I do the same. The only time I unbuckle
it is if I have to use the restroom, or want to stretch my legs and walk around a bit. Otherwise, it’s ON me at all times when I’m in my seat. ESPECIALLY if I’m napping. You NEVER know what could happen.
At the time of this fiasco, TWA had an "unspoken and unacknowledged understanding" that a minimal slat extension at higher flight levels provided a more "economical" ride (aka saved fuel and was a smoother ride). I know it sounds ridiculous, but it was true. Back then, those 727's guzzled gas like water. Regardless of what and how it happened, I feel bad for the pilots. They got screwed, no doubt. On a side note: there was a female passenger who was in the lavatory during the initial dive. She said that she was thinking to herself something along the lines of, "oh my God, I've got to get out of the bathroom before I die!" After the incident, she then said, " As if getting out of the lavatory was going to save me from dying". It was a good airline. My father worked for TWA for 35 years (some of those were with the merger with American). Talk about a nose-dive....Carl Icahn crashed TWA into the ground. That's an entirely different subject altogether. THANK YOU ALLEC FOR THESE FANTASTIC RE-ENACTMENTS AND AIR DISASTERS. I THINK IT'S GREAT YOU CAN GATHER ALL THE INFORMATION ABOUT THE PEOPLE, TYPE OF PLANES, THE INCIDENTS WITH TRUE DETAILS, ETC. GREAT WORK!
Thanks Allec...Happy New Year Buddy!!!
Very gripping.
I'm hooked on these videos, they are very well done and thank you for making them. I was wondering if you will recreate the incident involving Sichuan airlines 3U8633. I watched the Chinese movie recently (with subtitles) and it was good. I can't imagine how the copilot spent all that time in the open air after getting sucked through a broken cockpit window.
The pilot(s) were heroes to bring this plane down safely. Many would have freaked out under such stress.
Wow!