Duke Would Rather Die in ACC Than Join Expansion Big 12: No SEC, Big 10 Realignment Offer Likely
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.ค. 2024
- Duke University boasts one of the most valuable athletic departments in college sports. Several factors contribute to its high value:
Success Across Sports: Duke's athletic department has achieved remarkable success across a wide range of sports, most notably in basketball. The men's basketball program, under the leadership of Hall of Fame coach Mike Krzyzewski, has won multiple NCAA championships and consistently ranks among the top programs in the country. Additionally, Duke has strong teams in sports such as soccer, lacrosse, and tennis, contributing to its overall success and value.
Brand Recognition: Duke University has a globally recognized brand, synonymous with academic excellence and athletic achievement. The success of its basketball program, in particular, has elevated Duke's profile and attracted fans and supporters from around the world. The "Duke Blue Devils" brand is highly marketable, with a loyal fan base and extensive merchandise sales.
Media Exposure: Duke's athletic programs receive significant media exposure, particularly during basketball season. Games are broadcast nationally on television networks such as ESPN, CBS, and ACC Network, providing valuable visibility for the university and its sponsors. This exposure generates advertising revenue and enhances Duke's brand recognition.
Alumni Support: Duke has a large and passionate alumni base that supports its athletic programs through donations, ticket sales, and other forms of engagement. Alumni contributions play a crucial role in funding the athletic department and ensuring its continued success.
Facilities and Resources: Duke's athletic department benefits from state-of-the-art facilities and resources, including the iconic Cameron Indoor Stadium, where the basketball team plays its home games. These facilities attract top recruits, enhance the fan experience, and contribute to the overall value of the athletic department.
Conference Affiliation: Duke is a member of the Atlantic Coast Conference (ACC), one of the Power Five conferences in college sports. The ACC provides opportunities for lucrative television contracts, postseason play, and high-profile matchups, further enhancing Duke's athletic department's value.
Overall, Duke University's athletic department is highly valuable due to its success, brand recognition, media exposure, alumni support, facilities, and conference affiliation. It serves as a model for excellence in college sports and continues to be a powerhouse in intercollegiate athletics.
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Duke: we'd rather die in the ACC than join the Big 12
From BYU fans: your terms are acceptable
In context, one is also football dead in the new BIG12.
@@tarheel7406BYU has a much better reason to hate Dook than even UNC. Fuck Dook.
@@yellowmartian I didn't follow that story closely, but I left it thinking stupid DUKE rushed to judgment yet again. That culture should definitely be considered in realignment.
@@tarheel7406 Especially tarheel fans. 😅😅. See ya!
@@Joe-sm9qj Huh? Nonsense comment in the context of this thread.
Year before last Duke had the worst media viewership numbers in the P5 schools, worse than many G5 schools... But in 2023, Duke's numbers were up. But Big12 would sign Duke in a heartbeat. Duke could be a TCU in football if Duke wanted to be that. It just takes the will.
LOL Duke's academic prestige wouldn't sniff the 12
Same arguments being made for staying: rivalries, history, geographic location; have proven to mean NOTHING in this era of college football.
Bigten wants into the North Carolina market. They want UNC badly and well so does the SEC
Although it would be a mistake I think the SEC gets UNC.
Bigten still wants into the North Carolina market and I think they take Duke to pair with FSU.
You please the president's of the Bigten with Duke and FSU pleases the TV partners.
If Duke falls through then you have Miami and GT as backup plans
Well, if the ACC privates do not stick together in a New Ivy League, thenit would be AAC for Duke if Big12 is unacceptable.
The reason the ACC is in North Carolina and North Carolina has the most teams in the ACC….none of the North Carolina teams want to leave
Duke is the one ACC school I would never want to join the big 12
The higher the academic standing the more the BIG12 is the option of last resort. You have no worries.
The BIG12 wisely considered CAL/STANFORD as terrible fits. DUKE is in that same mold.
@tarheel7406 we shan't sleep
@@jamesstone9213 Sleep deprivation would explain a lot of nonsense takes.
No worries about that
@@tarheel7406grasping! SEC and big 10 aren't calling, so you and Duke can sit back to back and play ball.
I think all fans over-value their own conferences and find bias to downgrade other conferences. UNC is in a strong and growing market but that is the driver for other conferences to want them. UNC is not a strong football brand (check the ratings) and neither is Duke. NC State has stronger attendance than UNC, and Duke averages 24K FB fans (5 yr avg).Their MBB programs do bring a added value, due to their prestige in those sports, and very strong TV ratings.
Having a huge overall brand has a spillover effect:
College football's 25 biggest brands in 2022, ranked (Jul 22, 2022)
"Official Visit recently surveyed 1,000 high school football players on brand strength and asked athletes to rank college football programs. They included a rolling four-year average in their data findings and the results are telling."
Select Brands from the Top 25:
01 - ALABAMA
05 - CLEMSON
10 - MIAMI
12 - ND
13 - PSU
14 - UNC
16 - MICH
17 - FSU
Regardless, after "base" value, the rest is subjective and relative. BIG12 fans way overvalue. It's arrogant and delusional to think that an already heavily depleted/backfilled former peer P5 is equal to or better than the largely intact ACC. After the ACC depletes out, the objective assumption is that the BIG12 and ACC would be at rough peer, with better or worse being subjective and relative.
@@tarheel7406 I don't think we need to debate the future value of the conferences. I think the TV contracts will settle that. I saw that high school poll and that is a weak argument. It boils down to how many viewers turn in to watch the game or otherwise show up in person. That is great that the kids recognize the UNC name, due to basketball, but your football isn't a big brand. Again, fans attendance and TV...can't argue with that. The fact this poll has UNC ahead of Michigan discredits the whole thing. You are smarter than that and stretching beyond reason.
@@user-jn5pm3jv1b
a) Media value is a function of quantity and quality of viewers.
b) The poll isn't determinative but informative. It's a measure of football brands.
Again, the BIG12 is already dead as a peer major. I consider it the benchmark for a Tier 2 conference, the assumption for value, etc. for any other that similarly depletes out absent some strong evidence otherwise. Since Tier 2 football will be fungible and the value will be peer, the question is what Tier 2 will be the best fit for each P5 remainder.
BIG12 fans don't acknowledge that the B12 is already a Tier 2; they way overvalue. I can't recall ever reading an ACC fan claim that a rebuilt ACC will be anything more than a Tier 2.
Duke can't handle the Big 12, sorry 😎🏈
Duke blows and they dont travel
The higher the academic standing the more the BIG12 is the option of last resort. You have no worries.
@tarheel7406 blow it out your ass
@@jamesstone9213 Truth is truth no matter the exit point.
@@tarheel7406 You repeat yourself over and over again. Are you a carnival barker or a bot? Also- the self proclaimed "elite" schools have taken their masks off in the past days and showed that there are a lot of really dumb professors and students at the so called elites. I will give UNC credit for their students actions.
RIP Duke.
Goldilocks and Bobblehead.
There always Big East for basketball then to the AAC for football… that’s about your only options. I’d hate to see them in the Big 12, please no!
The 8 BIG12 remainders had no better options, so they stayed and rebuilt.
I'm sure the ACC will exist in some level. May be a touch more like AAC, but they'll have an option to stay put.
Not too far off. The gap between the Tier 2 BIG12 and future Tier 2 ACC to the G5s will be smaller than to the eventual Tier 1s.
@@tarheel7406 I do believe some teams in the current ACC are feeling the pressure to jump or get left behind. It hit B12 and P12, ACC is next. They have too many good teams to not get their turn.
I'm tempted to believe once the dust settles, middle tier ACC teams will join B12, specifically for BBall. Post ACC will likely merge with AAC like remaining PAC teams will to MWC.
@@MuggyWow The BIG12 has already imploded, collapsed, sunk, etc. It has already de facto lost its top 6 (net). The BIG12 is already left behind and set as a Tier 2 conference.
So why would any middle tier ACC remainder leave the future Tier 2 ACC and move to an already too big, wide and diverse Tier 2 BIG12? Smaller regionals that have some cultural uniformity would be far better at the Tier 2 level.
@@tarheel7406 I think this a very good question and requires a lot of conjecture to answer.
First, we must assume the ACC's day in realignment is coming. The size of this will be critical in my conjecture. IF the number of teams to jump to B1G/SEC is between 4-8, 8 being a high number I'm really not sure of, and IF then ND see's the writing on the wall and moves on, the ACC would be significantly gutted, ESPN would renegotiate, and THEN teams would consider the B12. I'm of no opinion that currently ACC teams would prefer the B12. I'm also not of the opinion that only 2 teams leaving would trigger any move to the B12.
@@MuggyWow
"we must assume the ACC's day in realignment is coming."
Yes, the ACC will deplete down to the BIG12's Tier 2 level and is already managing that decline.
" IF the number of teams to jump to B1G/SEC is between 4-8, 8 being a high number I'm really not sure of, and IF then ND see's the writing on the wall and moves on"
a) Yes, the level of ACC depletion to the B1G/SEC from lite to [heavy] will determine much, but perhaps not what the ACC remainders do relative to the BIG12. If lite, the ACC remains a relevant and best Tier 2. If moderate, the ACC remains (at a minimum) a peer of the new BIG12. If heavy, it won't matter, as all of the ACC remainders and new BIG12 will be too far behind and irrelevant in context.
b) ND is an ACC insider with a strategy of keeping ACC depletion lite so it can keep the status quo from ND's perspective.
"THEN teams would consider the B12'
Again, if the ACC heavily depletes out to the B1G/SEC, there's even less purpose for an even larger, wider, more diverse, and irrelevant BIG12. I see no such purpose.
Duke is a declining program post Coach K. Much better options available when the ACC falls apart. Heck, I'd take Washington State or Oregon State over Duke.
Maybe. Of course the BIG12 is a declining conference from its recent short run:
Tournament Bids (per Wiki); Win Percentage, FF (Representatives)
2023 (SDST runner-upm FLATL appeared)
ACC: 5 bids; .583%, 1-0-0 (MIAMI)
BIG12: 7 bids; .563%, 0-0-0
BIGEAST: 5 bids; .750%, 1-1-1 (UCONN)
B1G: 8 bids; .429%, 0-0-0
SEC: 8 bids; .529%, 0-0-0
PAC: 4 bids; .429%, 0-0-0
---
2024
ACC: 5 bids; .750%, 1-0-0 (NCSTATE)
BIG12: 8 bids, .467%, 0-0-0
BIGEAST: 3 bids, .833%, 1-1-1 (UCONN)
B1G: 6 bids, .625%, 1-1-0 (PURDUE)
SEC: 8 bids, .500%, 1-0-0 (BAMA)
PAC: 4 bids, .600%, 0-0-0
Being overrated has inflated bids (which harms win percentage) but still no Final Fours to show for it.
that statement is just dumb to read
No question
@@MegaFrankgarcia yep.
I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul
I am happy Duke has decided to unalive themselves. NO to BIG 12!
Very unlikely there would be mutual interest.
@@tarheel7406 No. There isn't. There are absolutely no reasons to add Duke. You are a bot.
@@Joe-sm9qj And no reason for DUKE to go to the new BIG12, hence the mutual disinterest.
BIG12 fans want to reject so badly, and I can understand from an emotional perspective. Passing on a school that has no interest in the first place isn't a rejection.
In context, DUKE will end up no less alive that the new BIG12 members.
Maybe even better off than the tarheels. But hey, you can keep your rivalry in the AAC.
@@Joe-sm9qj UNC is the top expansion target of the SEC and B1G. It will be fine and try and coattail DUKE. No new BIG12 school is in either's position.
Rivalries mean little. Oregon threw away their rivalry with Oregon State. It’s the most played basketball rivalry in the nation.
Actually, rivalries should be the focus at the Tier 2 level. The eventual P2 will have consolidated all of the bigger brands, so it will be able to consistently offer high interest matchups via rivalry or brand. The Tier 2 BIG12 and future Tier 2 ACC can only effectively counter program with regional rivalries of higher fan (and media) interest.
BIG12 fans are foolishly trying to remain Tier 1 football relevant (in vain) via a large and wide expansion. What this does is dilute rivalries, dilute branding, and increase travel logistics. I see no evidence that BY or the BIG12 members are as foolish.
Big 12 will never invite them
Good!! Who the hell cares about the big 12
Likely true as no mutual interest.
Why all of a sudden are many of the Big12 utube Chanel’s and Blog courting Duke? Is this part of a larger Big 12 campaign to accelerate the destabilization of the Acc so Big12 can poach ACC teams ?
They are just commenting on what is happening, there is no deeper conspiracy. FSU, Clemson, UVA and UNC will leave, that's a fact. Once they do, do you think Miami, Louisville, NC State, etc. will be content with backfilling with AAC schools? The Big 12 will have their pick of the best 4-6 of what's left in the ACC, just like they did with the 4 corners of the PAC.
@@jing-xt2tg
a) The ACC has already preemptively replaced ~4.
b) MIAMI, etc. would prefer staying in a lightly depleted ACC than downgrade to the new BIG12, hence the preemptive backfill.
It’s the Big Ten making moves to destabilize every single week.
Look, nothing against the Big XII, but Duke isn't going to join the Big XII. I've been following your channel for a while---and by the way--- it's excellent. But let me give you a different perspective. I am a UNC grad and have been in the middle of the three triangle ACC schools my entire life. Of course I could be wrong, but I don't think NC State, Duke or UNC will leave the ACC. Clearly FSU and Clemson are gone and we all know that there has been dissension at UNC in regards to the trustees and the athletics director. But at the end of the day my guess is that they will all remain. To replace Clemson and FSU, the ACC will raid the American and maybe even the Sunbelt. My guess is that South Florida, UCONN and perhaps ECU will move up. However. if I am wrong I don't think Duke will have a problem moving to either the SEC or Big Ten. My guess would be the Big Ten. Here's why. Duke is one of the top academic institutions in the world. They are exactly who the Big Ten would want. The fallacy of your thinking is that this is all about football. It's not. I think the Big Ten in particular would love to be associated with Duke. And another thing: If you really examine the Big Ten. there are only three football powers in that conference--Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State. The rest of the Big Ten is just plain mediocre. Maryland, Rutgers, Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue, Mich State, Nebraska, Minnesota, Iowa, Wisc. None of these schools are any better than Duke.
a) Where is CLEMSON going if UNC stays?
b) The ACC has already preemptively replaced ~4 members.
c) No P2 takes DUKE unless packaged with UNC.
UNC was the last of the biggest ACC brands to give up hope of saving the ACC as a peer Tier 1. That ended with the dilutive +3 expansion over objections. Ignoring any political interference, UNC is leaving with or without coattailed +1s.
Duke is a southern Stanford. Elite academics, a private university and weak football in a worse TV market. Guess what? Fox and the Big 10 rejected Stanford and they will reject Duke as well.
@@davidbrown386 Actually, the differences would be DUKE has a blue revenue sport and is actually in a better market when demo/culture trends are considered. DUKE also provide more synergies than STANFORD.
No high value expansion target (including ND) will attempt to coattail STANFORD. DUKE is better positioned.
Duke can't compete in the Big 12 more less in sec or big 10😂
Tier 2 football (including the new BIG12) will be at competitive parity.
Be real, they have an elite basketball and baseball program. Football is the only one they won’t compete in
@@brandonh5360they do not have an elite baseball or bball team lol 😂
@@Happytarheel7 are you kidding? Lol it seems like every year Duke is a national title contender in basketball
@@brandonh5360 they haven’t been a ncaa contender in 5 years lol and wdym baseball is good for dook lol
it makes more sense for the ACC to absorb the big 12, then cut programs that aren't carrying their weight.
Why? The ACC has already internally considered and passed on every new BIG12 member.
After the ACC depletes out, there's no more purpose for a large/wide ACC than there is for a large/wide BIG12.
Why?
ACC just added an SMU program the Big 12 passed on. Sadly the order will be the other way. A BC or Wake Forest will probably be the next Washington State and Oregon State. It sucks but that’s where it’s heading.
@@caseyhayes4590 SMU was a good addition
@@MegaFrankgarcia Maybe they're a great addition but the Big 12 could have added them for a long time and never did, instead chose TCU and Houston over them just within Texas. Stretching to the west coast for schools that don't have sports fan bases is not a healthy sign either compared to expanding to bordering states for programs with massive fan bases like Utah, BYU and Arizona. I'm not saying any of this is great, my program was in WSU/Ore St position at some points. It's most likely the 2-4 least desireable ACC schools get screwed.
There has been a floated idea that Duke old be open to playing BBall is BIG/SEC and play FB else where
Neither the B1G nor SEC will take on such a partial member. 50% chance that the SEC takes UNC/DUKE.
Duke will not become members of the Big 12. They will be member partners with UNC, UVA, and Clemson ( possible FSU and NC State) to the SEC. It’s been discussed that both Duke and perhaps VTech/GT will take partial conference payouts to the SEC similar to Oregon and UWs payouts with the Big 10. Also, if there wasn’t a massive exit fee for leaving the Big 12, Ok State and Kansas would have options to the SEC or Big 10.
From a. Duke perspective, the Big12 would be academic step down for Duke.
They haven't been invited. And won't be
@@jamesstone9213 You're correct. Mutual disinterest.
@@tarheel7406 juvenile comments
@@Joe-sm9qj Just pitiful. Concurring with another and noting no mutual interest are not juvenile comments. Do you know what "juvenile" means?
@@tarheel7406 why the immature, angry, jealous trash talk? The ACC is so desperate they resort to ad hominem attacks just to feel good about the glory days of the ACC, which were never. And don't give a list of Florida state and Clemson championships again because they are GONE!
Duke fan....we are an academic school too....we don't need to lower our standards to big12 level. Happy Cinco de msyo!
And it shows on the field
Duke fans, I'm trying to back you up, but please stop with the academics, Nobody cares, it's all about athletics.
@@MegaFrankgarcia The BIG12 doesn't care about academics. Likely the only current P4 that doesn't to some material degree.
I know this is all about football, but Duke should go with UNC. It's criminal to separate those two.
Duke isn’t going to the Big12 unless academic institutions like UNC GT and VT goes with them.
Doubtful that UNC and VA Tech settle for Big 12 when they will get SERIOUS INTEREST if not an outright INVITE from The B1G and/or SEC. One means MONEY for Athletics AND RESEARCH AND Prestige...the other just money for athletics. The Big 12 is way below on what The B1G or SEC bring to the table. Furthermore, if Stanford as the #33 Nationally Ranked TV Viewership versus Duke as #62 ranked did NOT get an INVITE from The B1G....highly doubt Duke gets one either....UNLESS....The B1G expands to a SUPER LEAGUE of 25+ (maybe to 32??!). In which case, then the SEC expands to keep up with the "Jones" and the Big 12 will also be picked apart as well. Not that I think those schools will depart for more money offered, but for MORE STABILITY in the New Power Two LEAGUES!
@@josephcernansky1794
a) The B1G offers no more academic money. UNC has its own prestige.
b) DUKE offers a blue revenue sport; STANFORD does not.
In context, the new BIG12 is already dead and buried. Why would the already Tier 2 BIG12 be better for DUKE (from its perspective) than the future Tier 2 ACC?
Who invited them?
@@jamesstone9213 It's the topic of this video. Currently, no formal invite is offered unless it's assured to be accepted.
Bc dukes money maker is basketball, and the B12 is better competition, and more money when Yormark separates tv rights
@@Knightowl1980 The BIG12 is the worst P4 when measured by the Final Four since the NCAAT expanded to 64. Only 3rd over the past ~10 seasons. It's not better competition, especially from DUKE's perspective.
@@tarheel7406 except we won 2 titles and runner up in a third.
The host just repeats his basketball nonsense. The BIG12 isn't even "the best" after its recent peak run. The BIGEAST has even been better.
Duke is NOT going to the Big 12. One big reason is academics. Stanford, Cal, Wake, BC, SMU and GT. Plus maybe UVA stays and maybe the ACC adds Tulane and USF. That is Ivy League level academics and except for Cal without the Ivy League excess baggage.
You're right... the problem is that also means no TV money. The conference that you described has no major TV value, so while the academics are solid, it makes it that much harder for Duke to field a top-tier athletic department.
@@RogerBates7 Why no TV money? Tier 2 football will have fungible value and power.
Baggage?? I hope you do realize that Stanford (and Berkley) are better suited to OFFICIALLY...PUBLICLY...announce they are joining the CCP!!! BOTH are better cultural fits than anything in the USA!! But at the current day....maybe ALL the universities should join the CCP!!?!!!
DEFUND the Educational/INDOCTRINATION Corporate/Industrial Complex!! NO TAX-funding ANTI-American WOKE institutions!! NO research money...NO student loans(INDEBTING young people for a SCAM degree)....TAX ALL universities!!! THAT ends their power and influence over ALL of Americans!! And tuition can become AFFORDABLE for ALL!! Those enormous endowments are ONLY used to accumulate POWER for the CULTURAL ELITES....NOT to enhance "the educational quality or experience of Americans."
Sure, go to the academic bowl and count the pennies from TV viewers
@@eersrus Tier 2 football is (or will be) fungible in value and power.
Staying in the ACC makes more sense than moving to a depleted Big 12.
Big 12 is easily better than the ACC (without Clemson and FSU)
When FSU and Clemson leave. The Big XII is a better and more stable conference then a depleted acc.
Calling the Big12 depleted just shows that you don't know much about the Big12.
@@donstreit9468 Big 12 has lost Texas, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Nebraska, and Missouri. The Big 12 replaced those teams with West Virginia, TCU, Utah, Arizona, and Arizona State. That is a serious downgrade, which makes the Big 12 a depleted conference.
@Patrick-sg7cm Still a by far better than the ACC especially without Clemson and FSU.
ACC not going anywhere.....Let Fla State and Clemson leave.....add Memphis.....UCF
Ummmm, UCF is in the Big 12 they aren't going anywhere. If FSU and Clemson leave UNC, it is right behind them
@@craigmorris3055 So is Miami at the #26 ranked National TV Viewership......unless Notre Dame joins the ACC as a FULL-MEMBER. Short of that, Miami's TV viewership would plummet unless they were CONSISTANLY back to within the Top 5 EVERY YEAR or outright winning the National Championship. How likely does anyone believe that will happen for the NEXT 5 YEARS?!?!?!
Time is running out for certain schools in certain conferences. Old "glory" isn't cutting it anymore....EVERYONE is looking to the future...at least the next 10 to 15 years. Places like Pitt and Duke Basketball better turn the corner and be TOP NOTCH in the NEXT COUPLE YEARS or they'll be bottom of the pecking order.
I think Manny Diaz F'd UP by taking the Duke job so quickly. He would have done better staying as DC at Penn State...there were other openings for his talents...now he HAS TO TURN DUKE INTO THE ACC FOOTBALL POWER!! Otherwise, his opportunities for Head Coaching jobs will slide backwards. Good luck Manny, there will still be paychecks for you in C-USA and Sun Belt, just lower your expenses, they don't pay that much.
The ACC has already preemptively replaced ~4.
If the ACC survives, I think UCF makes a lot of sense. Even West Virginia and Cincy.
@@eforsy650 why would they leave the Big 12 for less money? And less stability..