@@thatguy5379 yeah, that is what he was doing. I was just pointing out that he unlocks the boss door WITHOUT the boss key and then locks the door behind him WITHOUT the boss key. For the people who missed the boss key on their way through the fire temple, that might seem a little wrong.
I can. It’s one of the few tracks that isn’t intentionally designed to be unsettling (like the Silent Realms in Skyward Sword if you wake the Guardians) that makes me want to throw my device at the wall. City in the Sky in Twilight Princess is nearly as bad
i agree with city in the sky... probably one of my least favorite dungeons so thinking about its music annoys me xD. But forest temple theme is kind of relaxing.
Now that's just freakin sad. Regardless of whether they're dead or just beings transcended into another existence who can no longer return home to their loved ones, they are essentially gone forever from Hyrule. The sight of King Zora and Mido at the celebration really cuts deep.
I think Mido isn't just sad about losing Saria, but also losing Link since he disappeared, given as to how none of the Kokiri other than maybe Saria are aware that Link wasn't truly a Kokiri.
I think the Kokiri knew Link wasn't one of them. Mido said, "I the great Mido, will never accept you as one of us!" I think they knew. They just embraced him but Mido was super paranoid, watching the Hylian from a distance. ---- Edit: I personally believe Mido was very upset about Saria. He knew her for...who knows how long. Suddenly she is gone and the Deku tree is a happy little tree. Things are different now... He is probably the type who would start to miss Link after a few months. I think he is sad about Saria and the Deku tree
And the fact that if you talk to him later, after the forest temple, he says “And I’m sorry for being mean to him [Link]. Tel him that, too.” Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was sad about all of his losses; he lost the Deku Tree, Saria, and Link all in one fell swoop.
They touch on that a bit in the books and he is really distraught over the loss of him, even implying if link came back he'd be his friend edit: I really do recommend them, they're amazing for every series (especially twilight princess's imo)
I genuinely think that sending Link back to relive his childhood, while well intentioned, is probably the cruelest thing any Zelda has done in the timelines in regards to Link. She knows what he's gone through, and I'm sure she would have meant well, but I don't know if someone can just move past what Link went through.
It's also one of the worst decisions made in the series in hindsight. Wind Waker implies that had Link not been sent back in time then Hyrule might not have been flooded and then destroyed at the end of the game.
@@Jay-xk6dj Wind Waker takes place in the branch where Link *isn't* sent back in time. Thats why people know who the Hero of Time is. In the timeline where he gets sent back, no one know who the Hero of Time is because Links actions prevent OoT from happening. Hyrule gets flooded in Wind Waker because there isn't anyone to stop Ganon, and flooding it was the best the gods could do.
@@ferrosplice8460 No Wind Waker is very specifically set in the original timeline from the end of OoT. At the end of the game Zelda sends him back to before he pulls out the sword but that timeline continues on. Wind Waker almost states this as a fact at the start of the game. There isn't a timeline where Link isn't sent back from the end of OoT unless you count the fallen timeline but its not possible for WW to be in that one since the Hero of Time clearly won.
Since we see Naboru turn into an orange ball of light after getting struck by the witches, I always thought that Rauru was teleporting her to the Sacred Realm to prevent her from getting brainwashed again. He couldn't do so before because the first time it happened was in front of the temple and she therefor wasn't close enough to the temple's gateway to the Sacred Realm and he couldn't reach her. Only after the mind control was broken and while she was in the temple could he protect her by teleporting her out to safety.
Judging from the analysis, and because Japan, I would have to say their transformation has a lot to do with shinto - in other words, not that the characters have died per se, but that they were originally kami given mortal form, then called to ascend at a certain time. Saria ascended from the forest temple but her power was restricted as the temple was profaned; Darunia, Ruto, and Impa ascended during their assault on the besiegers of the temple, and Nabooru ascended right as Koume and Kotake intended to re-brainwash her which was what made it seem like she was killed.
Sages seem to die regardless, which is why they're different in each game. The OOT sages probably live about as long as their species normally would. This explains why in WW, we don't see Rita and Saria play with Medli and Makar. Perhaps as time went on, new Sages didn't have to be separated from their loved ones, as Links throughout the ages dealt with evil, instead of using Sages to prevent evil. ALttP sages on the other hand seem to be related to the OOT sages, so maybe their bloodlines remained in the spirit realm.
@@YujiUedaFan The way I view it is kind of like Link, Zelda, and Ganon being tied to the triforce; the sages are reincarnations of their past selves reaching out to what will ultimately be their replacement. Each is descended from the 7 Maidens/Guardians/Goddesses who represent elements in the world; together they can act much like the goddess Hylia in being able to seal evil, but their souls recycle after each instance of activity. One individual from each race of beings is chosen to fulfill a greater destiny; their divinity is restored, their mortal life acts as motivation and perspective into why they can't afford to fail, the two lives reconcile, and they become a sage tasked with defending their realm once more. Mortals can exist in the corporeal realm but sages are divine spirits: they can only exist wholly in the sacred realm or manifest as sort of temporary apparitions in the corporeal realm. They go on living in the sacred realm for the length of time they would have lived irl or they simply persist until their souls grow weary and they once again fade back into the cycle. The whispers the unawakened sages hear could be their past selves trying to reach out and trigger their memory or it could be an inkling of memory held by their divine selves - basically think the divine soul is the original and the mortal is a dream being experienced by the sleeping sage. The sage awakens, the dream comes into conflict, but given a quiet place to come to terms with things - their true nature wins out and the dream becomes just one more facet/cherished memory of a very old soul.
Not only I never believed they died, I also don't even think they were forced to remain in the Chamber. I always saw the glowing lights as them returning to the physical world, mostly because Rauru, the only one 100% confirmed to be dead, is NOT with them on Death Mountain. They probably returned there because it was the highest point in all of Hyrule.
Yeah, this is the most likely explanation imo. We know from ALttP and ALBW that each Sage has a descendant and since Darunia is the only one who has a child that we know of at the time of OoT, we can assume that with Ganondorf trapped in the Sacred Realm that the Sages were allowed to return to their normal lives and have families. Though it still doesn't explain Saria's case, since Kokori/Koroks are magical beings who I would assume cannot reproduce.
I've always interpreted it as more "living in a realm out of time" than a realm for dead people. Otherwise how would Link, a not dead person, be able to go there and back?
I think when they died, their spirits are selected and instead of going to the realm of the dead they became protectors of hyrule. Residing in the inbetween to aid the hero of time.
Even as an 11 year old I assumed the sages had just ascended to become immortal protectors of Hyrule. I didn't exactly think they were dead..but it still felt somber, as if they sacrificed their mortal, fruitful lives to be alone and celibate and watch over Hyrule - such a sacrifice, in a sense almost as bittersweet as if they died ..left an impact on me..made me appreciate people in the world who had integrity and as I grew I realized just how rare that quality was - this game really shaped parts of who I am today and it was the perfect coming-of-age adventure a boy could ever ask for
4:46 I don't think they are oblivious. Saria and Impa intentionally went to the temples to check the problem because they knew it had something to do with their role as sage. We also see Saria spending her time near the Forest Temple all the time Darunia went to get the Hammer, beat Volgavia, and save the Gorons. Ruto went into the temple to unfreeze the Domain. Nabooru was brainwashed, but initially she went to get the Gauntlets Impa and Saria were mentioned to go to check the "spirits" there.
Saria explicitly says she feels this place will be important to both of them, not that she knows it is. So it seems like Sages have an inkling of some kind but don't necessarily know what it means.
I always thought they were dead during my first play through... I remember thinking they all died fighting the bosses in their respective dungeons and their departed spirits became the sages.
@@Mrnibbles-nq2zn it's likely they all were magically sage swooped to safety before they could be killed, as we see possibly maybe is the case with Nabooru
Yeah that's what I believe as well. Saria was killed after bravely going to confront Phantom Ganon (perhaps not knowing what she would find). Darunia was most likely devoured by Volvagia. Ruto strangled to death by Morpha. Impa pummeled to a pulp by Bongo Bongo. Only Nabooru seems to not have suffered a gruesome death.
I thought they were stuck on the Sacred Realm, and they would get back somehow, but seeing that they didn't come down from Death Mountain, and all that evidence, it's hard to believe they didn't die
I never thought they died. To me, the sages were like the hero, ready for their call but then went home once everything was over. The theme is cheerful when we see them on Death Mountain, a place where they can see all of Hyrule and the good they did. Just like soldiers after a war, they will never be the same but they are back home.
Yea I agree, people are overlooking the simple fact that, dead or not, they are free to roam hyrule as they please. Pretty fuggin beautiful if you ask me.
Exactly and Wind Waker debunks this, on top of that. A dead sage is a powerless one and makes the Master Sword useless, otherwise, Link would've been defeated by Ganon in OOT.
The fact that a sage already ascended in Twilight Princess can be killed by Ganondorf, along with Windwaker's sages being killed and needing living successors certainly seems to suggest a 'sage' isn't without a life to be taken. They may be higher than mortal, but still need a life to fulfill their role. If a sage was felled in battle with the monster in their temple, they may have been called to the Sacred Realm before they died. They may also have been called the moment they opened the door and taken to the Chamber of Sages.
It could also be that they 'die' in a sense to begin their duties, shedding a physical body in Hyrule for one solely able to exist in the Sacred Realm. They are 'alive' in the sense they have working biology consistent with their new plane of existence, but whatever was going on with them in Hyrule is over. If one could access the Sacred Realm and overpower the not-small might of a Sage, you could probably just stab them or whatever.
You can visit the sages in WW after escorting them to the central chambers. They just don’t acknowledge Link and keep on playing their melodies (which is pretty cool that the devs thought to include that) But, they are Very Much alive. Also the maidens in LttP fill the role of the sages they’re descended from and are actually rescued. And in LBW after Link defeats YugaGanon they’re able to return home to their loved ones
The video is pretty much the recap of the information mentioned in the interview, minus the more specific information that the Nintendo rep mentioned in the interview.
Windwaker was set in a time period before Ocerina of Time took place. The sages are a lot younger in Windwaker compared to Ocerina of Time. I guess that your game data gets deleted if you actually talk to one of them, considering that the game is programed to restore back your save data somehow if you delete it. The method that we did somehow actually surprisingly worked. The devs briefly mentioned something about your save data and checking if it was still there when talking to the sages after you escorted them back to their chambers; it was talked about in more detail when they were discussing why exactly the music was placed there for each of the sages. I am not saying the exact truth, even though I might know ot from reading an interview about a Nintendo rep talking about in full detail in a really early interview. I could only explain in semi-full detail to you anyways in very vague details; even I could recall some of the details about some of the interview. The Nintendo rep even mentions that you would have to resort back to this exact interview for more information. The Nintendo rep thought that a video like this would be uploaded to TH-cam about this particular topic as well. I honestly thought about saving the link that that the interview was found on, but ultimately did not because I thought that no one would be interested in reading about the topic at the time.
It might be the exact same concept as with Aslan in the Chronicle of Narnia movie series. Eventually he had to show his face to stop the impending threat and got killed by the White Witch by being stabbed in the stomach.
There's one more piece of evidence not mentioned in the video that points to the sages being dead. In the Forest Temple, if you play Saria's song to talk to her after you have opened the way to the boss, but before going in, she will mention feeling an evil presence before cutting herself off with a scream. This could well be the moment that she is killed by Phantom Gannon.
Yeah your right actually I’d completely forgotten about that I was messing around with the ocarina and played her song and that exact sentence she said came up now obviously that could mean 2 things 1 that saria saw phantom gannon hence the scream or phantom gannon really did kill her I don’t think we will ever know but I’m leaning towards more that she was killed simply because every time you defeat a boss in the adult timeline they reawaken as sages which might imply that they died now of course that could be just speculation but it kind of makes sense well to me anyway
I’ve never thought there was any possibility besides the sages having died. Many of them seemed to end up in characteristically desperate situations and encounters with them were extremely somber.
Saria darunia they weren't killed its specifically mentions that they were called as sages but ganon stopped them by infesting monsters so link had to sort of cleanse each dungeon to awaken them
Honestly, it never explicitly says that they don't return. We see them reappear on death mountain, but that doesn't mean that they're gone forever. In fact if anything it's an argument that after the events of Ocarina that they were released from the sacred realm. Likely with Rauru staying behind to continue preparing for the next time an event like that happens again, as he's not with the others amidst their celebration and, may in fact, be an actual spirit as he's already reincarnated into the Owl. I also think its good to note that sages clearly have a physical presence in Hyrule, considering we have TP's sages carrying out the assassination of Ganondorf not in the spirit realm itself, but in the Desert Colossus. If you look at how sages operate in WW, it's clear that Medli and Makar are more there to offer up their prayers, but there's nothing that indicates that they were stuck there forever, just that Link leaves them to give prayer in their temples while finishing up his adventure. Sure, they join actually dead spirits Lanayru and Fado, but that doesn't mean that they are eternally trapped. If the true argument for them being forcibly separated from the rest of hyrule at the end is simply " they appeared in death mountain and not lon lon ranch " then I don't think that's strong enough of an argument to say that they didn't actually return afterwards. Mido and King Zora are both leaders of their tribe, and yes, both very hurt after the events of the game, but it didn't mean that they didn't get to see Saria and Ruto again after they returned.
Here's the thing: From Death Mountain you can get to Kakariko Town and Goron City, from Goron City, you can get to the Lost Woods from the Lost Woods you can get to Kokiri Forest and Zora's river. From Zora's river you can reach Zora's domain and Hyrule (also Kakariko and the Lost Woods (Bridge)), from Zora's domain you can reach Lake Hylia and from Hyrule you can reach Gerudo Valley. Death Mountain goes to/from a lot of places.
I did realize that Mido was alone w/ King Zora originally, but I never thought much of it lol. I just laughed at Mido 💀💀 And before I saw the distinctive lights of the Sages, I thought he was seeing Link return as a kid. (Obviously not true lol) However, now that I think about it, it's pretty meaningful that King Zora and Mido saw the green and blue sparkles, presumably representing Saria and Ruto. If they were in fact dead or unable to see them again, I like to believe that that was their final way of saying goodbye. It was an attempt to give their living loved ones closure 😭😭😰 so sweet but so sad
Going back to Naboru, if you look closely at the animation when she's struck by the balls of fire and ice, she is spirited away in an orange light. This light has the same tone as the one at the credits scene, and going by the fact that in most games the Sages need to be alive to work (in Windwaker Makar and Medley, in ALBW each sage is most definitely alive, and in TP Ganondorf straight up kills one), I'd say that they are transported to the sacred realm before they die in case of dangerous situations like Darunia's and Naboru's, or when they learn they are the sages and enter the temples, this being the most likely, in my opinion, with Ruto, Impa and Sariah
I played Ocarina of Time when it first launched and many, many, more times after that. It’s one of my favorite games of all time especially to replay. That being said, I NEVER knew that Ruto was warning you about the water in the boss room of the Water Temple. I was always thought it was Navi! 😆
@@wearywanderer1912 In the Japanese version, Zoras have a verbal tic where they say "Zora" at the end of their sentences, and you can tell it's not Navi because of the color of the text being white instead of Navi's signature blue text
@@jaidens.g.1920 I imagined Zeltik wouldn't screw up, but he probably should've explained. It's not so obvious in the American version, the only sign is the text color.
I always took the optimistic swell in music when the Sages reappeared to mean that they returned to Hyrule. Especially after Mido and King Zora were shown to be so down-trodden before they are stirred by the green and blue lights.
This video has some amazing points. I actually have a theory while I was watching. I think they chose Princess Zelda as the 7th sage to embody a Light sage that was living. It's known that Rauru is dead during the story, but he's only seen in the Chamber of Sages. And since Rauru passed away a long time ago, Zelda was probably chosen to kind of replace Rauru as the living Sage of Light.
@@DaDunge It could be a thing where Rauru is the afterlife's Light sage and Zelda is the mortal Light sage. It could explain why when Zelda isn't around Rauru is the Leader.
Personally I think even thematically it's stronger if they're alive. If say darunia dies by dragon and then becomes a sage, its not really much of a sacrifice for him to then become a sage when he's dead anyway. Whereas, if they're alive and actively choosing to leave hyrule and reside in the sacred realm for the rest of their lives so they can perform their duty, that's a much bigger sacrifice and dedication. If they're alive, they're actually giving up a lot more than if they're dead.
Well, Darunia still died to save his people. Thats very honorable. Actually, if they all died (all the sages) they did it trying to save their people, what is more honorable than that?
Darunia entered the boss chamber right in front of you so unless he fled to the sacred realm mid-fight he died he is 100% dead. He isn’t one to run from a fight though.
@@GODOFAWSOMENESS1 Presumably (dead or alive) it would be Rauru bringing them into the sacred realm the first time rather than them actively choosing to go there. The same way Link is brought to the sacred realm when he pulls the sword without choosing to go there. So even alive he wouldn't be running from a fight, Rauru would be removing him from one. We know 100% that sages can be teleported from temples to the sacred realm. We know 100% living people can go there, because link does. The boss room is typically the 'heart' of the temple, so it would make sense that that's where the connection to the sacred realm is strongest and he can bring them in.
I think good evidence for the fact that they're alive is that only 5 of the sages came back to death mountain. Roru, the only sage to be confirmed dead, wasn't there.
This is literally a question I had pondered for years right after beating that game. Love having a video to watch that really dives into it. Oh sure I wanted to win, but thinking that they might be dead made it feel really uneasy. All the more so with the uncertainty.
That's the magic of the Zelda series. If you think things in OoT happen a certain way (sages all die/a few of the sages die), the game feels darker than it actually is. It's a sort of blessing in a way, in that it makes the games feel more impactful.
@@ttt4778 dont worry about saria they returned in the end rememeber. Plus it specifically mentions in the official story that they were summoned as sages only to be stopped by ganon who infested the temples so link had to sort of cleanse in order to awaken them
I do think they seem to have "ascended" into some sort of higher beings and thus are not allowed to return to their normal lives, and specifically with Saria, her line of "not being able to live in the same world as Link" may be because as a sage she realized Link has travelled through time and in the end he will return to his true timeline, thus disappearing from "future Saria's world" Going back to they "dying" I think what happens is that the monsters in the temples are in charge of capturing them, not kill them, so maybe Ruto and Darunia, who disappear suddenly after meeting them in the temples are simply transported to some sort of prison linked to the boss of each temple, this would make sense with the fact that after beating te forest temple Sheik says to Link how he "freed" the sage, not avenged Different from when we meet the champions in BoTW Also, this might be a dumb point but, we do meet characters before and after their deaths: Dampé, Koume, and Kotake, and they all clearly have a halo over their heads, Dampé is a normal hylian so this doesn't have to be related to magic powers but the fact that none of the sages seem to have a halo makes me think they didn't die, at least in the traditional sense ( I understand that the halo could've been more for comedic effect specially on the witches, but going by a completely in-universe explanation based on canon events of the game, then they would need to have the halo if they were dead)
Link doesnt time travel until Zelda screws up and sends him back when he pulls the Master Sword the first time he is sealed and sleeps for the entire time
@@ziegfeld4131 He time travels multiple times before that. Like for example he has to go back as young Link to get the silver gauntlets from the spirit temple. That can only be explained with some kind of time travel where he's sent back to the point before he was pulled into the future.
@@mikau1585 wellnot me I liked the water temple too And no i didnt play the 3ds version first I liked the music and atmosphere of the place and didnt mind going into my items all the time I guess some people are just impatient
@@milanbeerepoot4260 Yeah, I don't have much of a problem with the temple. It really excels at some things! But having to constantly go into the menu for one stage and one stage alone is janky level design. Everyone's opinion is valid though :)
It's a weird coincidence that Mido and King Zora could see these sparkles of light, thinking this happens in the Adult Link timeline, leading to WW and the zora and kokiri sages from Wind and Earth Temples
Huh. Now that you mentioned it, I never thought of it in that light. Just as death is a theme in Majora's Mask, Ocarina of Time is all about sacrifice: Link sacrifices his childhood for Hyrule's future, thus living forever with the knowledge of nobody remembering or knowing what he's done. Only Zelda and those in the Royal Family know and that's not much comfort. No wonder the Hero of Time is so beloved even to this day. He is the living definition of a tragic hero.
Thats how i saw it. Link riding epona in despair into the lost woods. Brings him to termina. They basically took everything from him even something to fight.
I was always under the impression that in the final fight of the spirit temple, the two witches became one by using Naboru's body. Since the witches die at the end of the fight, it would only make sense that Naboru's body was destroyed to kill them.
I don't think that's the case. When they "recaptured" her they explicitly said it's because she commands a lot of respect among the gerudo and intended to brainwash her again to continue taking advantage of that respect.
To me, it makes way more sense if their dead. "Saria" is a perfect example. In the past, she's there in the grove, and gives you Saria's song. You return as an adult to the same location, and everything goes silent! Zelda comes in after you, and says "Time can be cruel". Secondly, a few of the elf's talk about her in past-tense. This is pretty self-evident to me.
I have this list of possible sages in Breath of the Wild: 1. Mipha- most water sages are Zora 2. Daruk- most fire sages are at least half-Goron 3. Urbosa- closely connected to Nabooru 4. Impa- sage of shadow is almost always Impa 5. Hestu- sage of wind or forest, both are children of Deku Tree and play magical instruments 6. Rhoam- strong connection to Rauru: both are long dead, resemble NES Old Man, situate Link in Temple of Time after long slumber, guide Link as alter-egos. He also uses some kind of light magic in Age of Calamity 7. Zelda- common sense Extra- Revali- only other wind sage is a Rito
@@BalboaBaggins What... don’t women have more responsibilities than men? Especially now in the 21st century where women are also expected to have jobs they have more responsibilities than ever. Why are sexists so stupid?
@@flup1303 "expected to have jobs"? lol by whom? Literally no one is forcing them to have jobs. It's what they prefer over being a wife, like they have been for the last 200.000 years and serves them better. Women have all the privileges and advantages in life, think about divorce, custody, #Me too lies, "equality" nonsense etc. etc. Don't turn this around and gain some life experience before posting something stupid on the internet.
I think Rauru rescues Nabooru right there. The magic she disappears in matches his colour - Kotake and Koume are red and blue and their mixed power is purple - as seen when they abducted her when Link is a child. So I agree she's absolutely not dead. I think they only have to stay until the seal is more....sealed if you know what I mean. In Breath of the Wild both Ruto and Nabooru are named, I would have to check if they're described as ancestors though, because that would certainly be confirmation that they lived and eventually returned to their peoples. And who knows what happens with the timeline and the Sages.
Yeah, it always seemed to me that they weren’t permanently severed from the living world. More so that they had to stay until their duty was fulfilled.
I never saw it that way as they died. I just think they just transcended into higher dimensional entitles, so high that they can't really interact in the same world as Link anymore in some way. Navi unfortunately more than likely died due to her role as a fairy and didn't want Link to see her disappear. Now that is tragic
I don't think they've necessarily died, as in something in the temples MURDERED them (though it is possible). I think they're more 'effectively' dead, as in their time living in Hyrule has ended and while they still protect it, they cannot stay within for very long at a time without expending energy needlessly.
@@firenze6478 Nope. Death Mountain is a series staple since the first NES Game-and it has that name ‘cause its Dungeon Map is literally laid out like a skull and it’s where Link finally faces off against Ganon. In LttP-Onward it’s blatantly a volcano that chucks flaming rocks at Link; but the idea of Link needing to avoid getting hit by rocky debris already existed in Zelda1 in various mountainous areas (they were just avalanches/rockslides vs implied to be molten) But it’s DEATH Mountain ‘cause 1) series precedent and 2) volcanoes technically are mountains, just mountains that spit lava and whatnot at you (therefore making them Deadlier than regular mountains). Also 80s&90s melodrama for All Things Skull-Themed And Volcanic -seriously. If they could work in a skull or volcano into media of these eras, they did-
Why isn't Rauru there tho? He's the only sage that has actually been confirmed to have died. Also if dead sages could fulfill their role why would Zelda need to be the sage of light when Rauru is the sage of light? I think it's because Rauru is dead and Zelda isn't.
If they had to be dead to become sages, then why didn't just keep the first ones forever instead of the need to awake new ones? Used to think they were dead... now, almost 23 years later, not so much. Excellent video!
to Kotake and Koume maybe they say something different in the japanese original what was suited for the western market and changed (as it happened often). But since I can't read or speak japanese I don't know what they say in that scene
I was curious so i found a japanese play through of OoT, that part pretty much translated exactly, basically they were like, "aw, she became sane.... time to brainwash her again!" lol
@@avengefullgirl95 I also think they sent her to some kind of prison to deal with after Link. Why else would they take their sweet time sinking her into that quicksand/black whole, if they could simply *snap* turn her? Plus, if they had an instant-kill move that could take out one of the strongest Gerudo warriors (albeit weakend), why change to simple ice and fire magic for Link?
I'm more used to the N64 graphics as opposed to the later 3D updates. So I'm always taken aback by how Saria's expression looks in the 3D version. It's so laid- back, like she just smoked a doobie.
I always thought it was quite obviously suggested the Sages died. Pretty much all of them went into the respective Temples and confronted the evil there in some way. So whether they actually died (I hope not but do think so) or, whether they did not actually die but simply were chosen and ascended in some way, almost makes no difference. They function very much similarly to what we could call a Guardian Angel of sorts, and I guess the only true difference would be that they did not need to suffer the transition of living to dead. But like the video said too, Darunia confronted the boss, and many other Sages did similar things so I personally have always assumed that they were dead or as good as dead, living on through grace and helping the living.
I'm more of the opinion that there were original "ancient" sages that were sages of their respective temples. But in the 7 year gap when Link was "asleep" in the Temple of Light, when Ganon took power, the ancient sages were killed by Ganondorf's forces (except for Rauru who conveniently was watching over Link during his slumber), which necessitated new sages to be awakened, thus the OOT sages. We see this concept in Wind Waker when the Wind and Earth sages were killed, and new ones had to be awakened (Makar and Medli in this case). Note that these original "ancient sages" were present in TP in the Child timeline where Ganondorf was subdued before he could take power courtesy of Link's warning.
@@sarahquayyum8176 Ruto was a sage in the adult timeline but in the Kid timeline she wasnt cause the future was preventive by link with the triforce of courage showing kid zelda that her dream was real and the king took both warning serious since link used thr triforce of courage as evidence.
@@sarahquayyum8176 She wasn't a child at this time, because she wasn't awakened nor did she need to be. And in the Child Timeline, she as never awakened as Ganondrof was thwarted before he put his plan into action, courtesy of Young Link coming back form the Adult Timeline to warn the Royal Family of Ganondorf's treachery.
I’ve always took it as a form of ascension. They don’t die, though in most cases may of been in danger of such a fate before this. However they are raised into an ascended like state because of the realm calling to them. Still more or less spirits, but less so than the actual dead. Twilight Princess I feel shows this the best, where the sages are still clearly their OoT counterparts, but forgotten. Most, save the most important of Hyrule, don’t even know of them anymore. However despite being much older than ever before, they’re still them, and can even be killed.
When twilight princess happens I see it as the OOT sages were never awaken because the original sages didn't need to be replaced because the temples were never corrupted. So the successor sages got to live out normal lives in the altered child timeline while the adult timeline they stayed in the sacred realm
Just one question It’s pretty obvious that if the sages are immortals they lived till twilight princess era, and Ruto (water sage) was killed by ganon when trying to seal up Ganon But who will be the next sage of water after that? I think, the zora queen that died in twilight princess maybe became the sage of water after the ending
This makes sense when you think about how hundreds of years have passed leading to the sages losing more an more identity though time and storytelling,. As their story is fresh and in the mind of those in after the events of OoT, they resemble their more individual selves, but as time passes they adopt more formal forms as seen in Twilight Princess.
@@bastienlafleur5838 Most likely not. :P Nothing suggests this at all really. What does exist would mostly be Saria's deep connection to nature and the spirits of the forest, and the lingering spirits of the dead throughout Hyrule in this game. And then there's the Triforce wielders and magic, and Hylia and descendants' ability to use magic.
I just realized how similar the situation the sages are in, is to the situation the champions encounter in breath of the wild. All of them tries to provide help for Link to defeat Ganon, but they are ultimately killed in the “temples” in which they were trying to help Hyrule in
Is it a coincidence that it was King Zora and Mido that were together? I mean a Zora would eventually be the Earth Sage and a Kokiri a Wind Sage which are the only sages in the Wind Waker.
Could be that Mido and King Zora forged a lasting bond with their people that took over as sages once there were new ones needed after the world flooded.
I think it's one of those things where it's not 100% literal. There are multiple reads on the situation, and many of them could be true. I always interpreted it as a kind of transcendence, where they become something less physical. It's like a death, but their bodies haven't necessarily been destroyed in the process. I really liked your idea of Rauru pulling them into the sacred realm. Since he was able to do that for Link, it makes total sense that he could do that for them as well. Alternatively, it could be that the process of "awakening" is what pulls them in, and the sacred realm might be more of a kind of "unseen realm" that's everywhere at once.
Thing is, if they were transformed into sages, it could be said that they still actually died. What I mean is, becoming a spirit being they would be forced to shed their mortal bodies and as such would effectively be "dead" even if they still continued to exist.
The problem with that argument is that Rauru, the only sage confirmed to be dead, can't fulfill his role anymore. That's why Zelda became the sage of light. If sages could be dead and still fulfill their role then why wouldn't Rauru continue his role as the sage if light? It's because he's dead and Zelda isn't.
@@swagmiredoesall There need to be seven living sages to seal Ganon, and seven living descendants to break the seal. If Rauru was dead, he probably found a loophole in possessing the owl or something.
Since I was a 7 year old kid I've been convinced Nabooru was a vessel for Kotake and Koume's double dynamite attack. That's why Link is so shocked when they fuse, because he recognizes it as a brainwashed Nabooru. So in this case the boss of the dungeon didn't kill the sage, Link did.
Maybe they didn’t die... maybe during the end credits when the sages appear on the mountain they where sent there after they where done helping seal Gannon away and where able to continue life. With king Zora and Mido thinking they where actually dead but then surprised and probably relieved to see they’re still alive.
@@JCO78 But perhaps they CAN return, now that he is sealed. Provided they reside in and protect their temples, it wouldn't be that out of line. Rauru's temple is in the Sacred Realm itself, which explains why he isn't among the group watching the sun rise! I think I'll go with this as my headcanon. It'd be such a happy scene, watching Link go back to his house after sealing the Master Sword and finding Saria there waiting for him.
I love this channel, someone so deeply enthralled with love for a video game series and could talk about it forever. I could listen forever too. Thanks Zeltik
The ending with the sages, even as a kid, left me so melancholy after I beat the game. Every good Zelda game since has some aspect that gives a similar feeling as well. I love it that they don't just gloss over that either and make it seem all happy. These characters give up their lives to be sages and as noble as it is, that's sad too. Another good moment like that is in Wind Waker where Prince Komali sits waiting for Medli to come back, and it's really sad that you know, she's never going to be able to come back.
Regarding Nabooru, I think it's noteworthy that she disappears in a GOLDEN light, rather than the purple that blue and red would make together. I think Roru rescued her at the last moment, as the color of his magic would be yellow.
Honestly, I think it is a bigger sacrifice for them to still be alive. Knowing that they can never see their loved ones again, but don't have the comfort of knowing they are dead. I dunno it just seems like it would be harder to know you're alive but stuck in the Sacred Realm forever.
I've played this game so many times, but I never even considered why King Zora and Mido were away from everyone else in the first place. Ocarina of Time truly is brilliant with its subtle storytelling. It's like I learn something new about the game every time I come back to it.
You should preferably try to track down the interviews that Nintendo agreed to do about the game in early 2000s about Ocerina of Time. They should at least somewhat interest you to some degree. Nintendo probably knowingly talked about things that they likely knew that people would eventually be playing the game every year to never have even heard of before reading the information of what they have to say about it. I believe that they may or not have admitted to specifically only talking about those points mlre specifically saying something like they will never ever find these out by themselves, and that they knew that eventually the game would eventually become a yearly tradition for fans of the series to eventually be doing in the future as well. Nintendo definitely admitted that they knew what would be said about the game in the future as well.
My personal kind of headcanon was that when they reached the boss/final room of the temple they got somehow sent into the sacred realm rather than dying to whatever boss is there, since like there'd have to be some way for heading into the temples to take them there irrespective of if a boss is in the dungeon, especially since when Link is sent there too after beating the bosses, it is from the same room. Only thing I'm unsure on with that is Nabooru, maybe Twinrova teleported her into the boss room when mind controlling her and that got her freed/sent to the sacred realm.
I never really thought of them as dead but being a sage made them a special kind of being that's part of the spirit realm, not alive or dead. They are the guardians of their respective temples. I saw it as they awaken to their role as sage just as Zelda and Link awaken to their roles as Wisdom and Courage.
I looked away for a second, then back at 16:58 and was like "silly Zeltik, putting a random cuckoo in the chamber of sages", then I quickly realized it was the perspective of the shot that made Nabooru and Ruto look like one "character" 🤣
I hadn't thought about that when I played the game for the first time. I had just thought that they have just appeared in the Chamber of the Sages, but still alive, just destined to be sages. I did wonder what the word, "Sages" meant. I had been told that "Sage" is a word meaning someone who is wise, which does make sense for what they tell Link after becoming sages. I would not think they were dead considering that Zelda was a sage herself and could still interact in the outside world. I also wouldn't say they are dead considering that in Twilight Princess, one of the sages is killed off by Ganondorf. So if that sage died, he or she couldn't have already been dead, considering that following that scene, the sage who was killed doesn't come back, only the other five do. Of course Twilight Princess is set in the child timeline where Link relived his childhood, so the events of adult Ocarina of Time are erased in Twilight Princess, so it's unclear if the sages in Twilight Princess are the same as in Ocarina of Time, or are other members of their respective races. Like a new generation of sages or even an older generation. Sure there is Rauru who can assume the form of Kaepora Gaebora when going outside the Chamber of the Sages, but at the end when the other five sages appeared on Death Mountain, they still appear the same as they did before. So do I think the sages are dead? Personally, I would say no. It's hard to argue why I don't think they are dead, but there is the death of one sage in Twilight Princess, which to me indicates that the sages were not already dead.
I think it's fairly clear that: • Saria went to the forest temple to save everyone, inspired by the courage Link had as a child. She died horribly, probably by Phantom Ganon. • Darunia also died horribly at the hands of the dragon. He fought because of Link's courage, a start to a reoccurring theme. • Ruto again died because she was trying to help Link knowing he needed guidance, but she also went from prissy to courageous. Again, Link had an affect on her. Time and time again these people rose up because Link inspired them with his power of COURAGE... As we know the Triforce of Courage was basically given to the hero, thus meaning - he indirectly killed them all or awakened them all by giving them the courage and inspiration to fight back when no one else dared to.
Video games are art y'all, thanks for coming to this wonderful literary analysis and thank YOU Zelink for putting your reading out there! I got stuck and wasn't ever able to finish Ocarina, so this was the first I heard of Naboru's story, and _wow_ that's hardcore I think it's cool though that there's still so much speculation about this game! it's really a testament to the impact of such elegant storytelling in this game that we had the pleasure of interacting with
As a child I always thought they were dead (I cried for Saria, I was just 8 or 9 and I really liked her). But now, looking at it, I think that the question is wrong. "Are they dead?". I think the question doesn't make sense. They are in the sacred realm, now they are part of it. It's beyond time and maybe space, or so I understand. Being alive or being dead is nonsense. They ARE. That's all that matters. I think they are in a third state, not alive, not dead. It doesn't matter if they died during the game or if they were saved, because in the end, they become something more. No ghosts. Sages. I just got to that conclusion thanks to you and I really like it so I am gonna keep it for now :D, great video.
They are alive, and start families. With hylians. Even Saria somehow. At least that is how it happens in the Downfall Timeline. OoT was supposed to be the imprisoning war mentioned in LttP, but the stories didn't add up, so Nintendo decided to make a new timeline.
What if Kotake and Koume's spell didn't hit? What if that light we see take Nobooru is actually some kind of devine force taking her to the Sacred Realm in a dire moment?
That is a possibility. After watching the video again, I noticed that when Nabooru originally gets abducted by Kotake and Koume she gets pulled into a purple portal. This makes sense since Kotake's magic is blue and Koume's magic is red (blue + red = purple). The second time they go to kidnap her, she disappears in a yellow light. I think either Rauru or her awakening sage powers teleported her to the Sacred Realm just before their magic hit her.
I always found it interesting that the towns in The Adventure of Link have the same names as the sages would later, and was always curious if there was a connection and what it is between them for the games through their timelines.
I don't think they are dead, but I do think their mortal personality takes a backseat to their ascended, immortal sage personality (if that makes sense). When you talk to Saria in the Chamber of Sages, she introduces herself by saying "I am Saria"...which is strange at first, because we have known Saria for years. Why is she introducing herself like we just met her? It seems odd at first, but I think it does make sense when you consider that her mortal soul may now be taken over by the soul of a sage...and so in that sense, she is a new individual and technically is meeting Link for the first time. She has her previous memories still, but it's almost like those things didn't actually happen to her. When peering into her memory, it's like she is looking at characters in a movie, rather than actual experiences from her own past. I do think that as a result of this, there is a certain level of emotional detachment or aloofness that comes along with being a sage. It's definitely a bittersweet calling, because they do have to basically leave behind their previous lives.
After watching this video, it feels like a miss that Link the Goron wasn't sitting sad next to King Zora and Mido. He lost his father and he is the leader of his race, so why wouldn't he be included in that corner?
I always believed that the sages who returned to Death Mountain simply materialized there to go back to Hyrule when they were ready, perhaps having some final duty to perform first.
I've personally thought that the sages of Ocarina can live on as a spirit, but can become a Sage as a living being. The sages are shown to be spiritual beings, with connections to places of worship. What I'm saying is that they can still become sages as spirits, but being a spirit isn't a requirement for being a sage.
@@bastienlafleur5838 That was a mouthful... Anyways, in my personal opinion the Sages are essentially the head priests of temples to gods of those elements, gaining their power from the gods. So they indirectly gain power over their elements. Now it is entirely possible that they're getting their powers from separate gods. We see two wind gods in WW, a Sand Goddess in OoT, Hylia in SS, and in my personal opinion the golden goddesses were not the ones to flood Hyrule. Gods in Hyrule seem to have elements and they oppose the Demons as we saw with Hylia. The gods, therefore, give the sages power over their domain and in return the Sages fight against the demons who've historically opposed the gods. I hope that makes sense. P.S. I don't think that the races are restricted to any type of element, just that it is easier for races to use elements which are similar to their natural environments, like how the Zora tend to have associations with water magic.
@@bastienlafleur5838 You do have rather compelling points, and I now see what you meant by the magic of a certain group. One thing I definitely agree on (and would push further on) is that the use of magic requires some sort of conduit to be used. Obviously not in the terms of godly beings but for mortals. Excluding the champion abilities (which aren't exactly magic), most magical abilities have been expressed through magical items, and it is very much likely that some magic which we don't know the cause of came from a magical conduit (for example the ocarinas, the master sword, the triforce and the light force). Another thing is the lesser deities which don't appear to give magical powers are typically not ones we see often. In fact, we see the Deku Tree grant us power through his leaf. It is most likely that their powers are either suppressed or are just not seen long enough to get anything out of. Lastly, it is likely that each race does have some specific magical powers in their blood. While I don't think the Zora and Gorons are good examples of this, the Sheikah show to have abilities which are restricted to them and them alone, so you might be on to something.
With what? She doesn't have a weapon when she's transported, and I don't imagine they're going to teleport her to a cell witha table of things she can use to kill herself or even get out. That just seems like a terrible play on their part.
Darunia enters Volvagia's chamber all _fired_ up for battle, when a portal opens behind him and Rauru yanks him into the Chamber of Sages by the shoulders. _"Mmm-Nope, you're needed here."_
Ah, I was wondering about this a few months ago and was surprised you never did a video on it. Glad to see it here now. I did not know that there was discussion about this for a long time and thought it was something that most people just took for granted. That forum thread is all the way back in 2008, pretty cool.
When it comes to Koume and Kotake "brainwashing [Nabooru] again," I always thought they used her body as a vessel for their Double Dynamite Attack. Link is shown to be shocked to see that form in the cutscene, so I always thought it was because the witches were forcing Nabooru to fight him again. It'd make Nabooru's fate even more tragic and, in regards to her, give the theory some merit since we'd then know exactly how she died before becoming a sage. Perhaps Link anticipated her to awaken as the sage and that's why he wouldn't have hesitated to continue the fight.
That would indeed make Nabooru's death more tragic, but I just remembered that Twinrova uses the double dynamite attack in the Oracle of Ages/Seasons games too. Nabooru isn't in those.
I just think can't help but think about how Saria, a child, went into a temple to help the spirits only to be tragically killed by them. It's so sad but there is just noway she would've survived in there for long
I never thought about it but after seeing this video I really like the idea that they are dead and this is link's way of accepting their death and/or dealing with it, also being encouraged by them helping him as sages but really they are dead, I like to think this way because link is a child, even after skipping 7 years he is still a child in his mind and it's a big thing that he sacrificed his childhood, part of that is accepting death and realizing what it is and what it means, it's not a coincidence all of the sages are links friends/companions in his journey
Fun fact: Saria's song does exist in the game and when played it plays the music from the third night of the carnival and rapidly speeds through time much like the song of double time, however you actually get to see the characters move around you. That's a pretty big connection with death and it's also likely Saria became a skull kid in death as she constantly is in the lost woods and isn't old enough to become a stalfos like the hero shade Theory time for Majora's mask : I played majora's mask first and then ocarina of time , and I came to the conclusion that the friend link goes searching for is Saria, why is this important? Well without her unlocking her powers as a sage and from how deep into the forest link is , it's possible that Saria got lost in the lost woods she always inhabits thus becoming a skull kid. It's also worth noting that skull kid draws the songs on the wall in termina field near snowhead's entrance. It's possible that skull kid was originally intended to be Saria , which is why well... (spoilers for true ending 100%) The drawing on a stump shows what it does. link with the skull kid in friendship , doing .... something? It's hard to tell , it could be them both holding ocarinas ? Ocarina of time does show a drawing on links house in the same style so I always thought the true ending implied link was drawing it with someone else. However in the final game this connection is lost and skull kid is addressed as a 'he' I think? My personal theory is this was a storyline that got thrown out later because majora's mask had such a short development time it might be that the Saria = skull kid was a placeholder in case the team didn't have time to implement Majora fully . Obviously in the final version they got to implement it fully but they didn't remove everything connected to it from the game.
What I took away from this is that answering the question "are the sages dead" doesn't actually make a difference Whether or not they lost their lives in order to ascend to sagehood, their sacrifice and losses are functionally the same, and that seems to not be open to interpretation so much as what the story is telling. So the debate over whether or not they died is effectively pointless
I was always under the impression that the sages were all dead before the time Link “awakened” them… some died in between meeting Link in the temple, and Link defeating the dungeon boss/evil entity occupying the temple, some died before Link awakened in the future.
I think it's entirely probably that some of the sages may have died, but not all of them did. It wasn't necessary for them to have died, but that doesn't mean some of them didn't. Like Darunia could (and very likely) have died, but others not.
Darunia: goes into boss room without boss key and the door locks behind him
Me: "Bruh".
Probably buying link some time
@@thatguy5379 yeah, that is what he was doing. I was just pointing out that he unlocks the boss door WITHOUT the boss key and then locks the door behind him WITHOUT the boss key. For the people who missed the boss key on their way through the fire temple, that might seem a little wrong.
Darunia: Lockpick 100
@@krauser_bowser5873 😂
He is a goron maybe he just forced the door open and it shut itself magically
i can never get enough of the forest temple music.
I can. It’s one of the few tracks that isn’t intentionally designed to be unsettling (like the Silent Realms in Skyward Sword if you wake the Guardians) that makes me want to throw my device at the wall. City in the Sky in Twilight Princess is nearly as bad
i agree with city in the sky... probably one of my least favorite dungeons so thinking about its music annoys me xD. But forest temple theme is kind of relaxing.
it makes me imagine sitting there in a dark room at 10pm wondering how the f. i'm going to beat this thing.
@Craig Adams
Could this be a warning from someone who has tried, failed, tried again and eventually had his life consumed by non-believers?
@Craig Adams i would, but that would be the case for every song in existence :D
Now that's just freakin sad.
Regardless of whether they're dead or just beings transcended into another existence who can no longer return home to their loved ones, they are essentially gone forever from Hyrule. The sight of King Zora and Mido at the celebration really cuts deep.
Well Mido was pretty much of a bunghole.
@@TJDious He was, as children that are immature often are. But, as Mido did, they mature and learn.
It reminds me of the champions in BoTW. Especially Mipha since her family is still alive and they know Mipha died inside Vah Ruta
Even for a pretty non-graphical game, it really hits the feels and shows their sadness
@@TJDious You can be a "bunghole" to others and still have people you deeply care about.
I think Mido isn't just sad about losing Saria, but also losing Link since he disappeared, given as to how none of the Kokiri other than maybe Saria are aware that Link wasn't truly a Kokiri.
I think the Kokiri knew Link wasn't one of them. Mido said, "I the great Mido, will never accept you as one of us!"
I think they knew. They just embraced him but Mido was super paranoid, watching the Hylian from a distance.
----
Edit: I personally believe Mido was very upset about Saria. He knew her for...who knows how long. Suddenly she is gone and the Deku tree is a happy little tree. Things are different now...
He is probably the type who would start to miss Link after a few months.
I think he is sad about Saria and the Deku tree
im not crying you are
And the fact that if you talk to him later, after the forest temple, he says “And I’m sorry for being mean to him [Link]. Tel him that, too.” Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was sad about all of his losses; he lost the Deku Tree, Saria, and Link all in one fell swoop.
I think Mido felt regretful of bullying Link and blamed himself.
They touch on that a bit in the books and he is really distraught over the loss of him, even implying if link came back he'd be his friend
edit: I really do recommend them, they're amazing for every series (especially twilight princess's imo)
I genuinely think that sending Link back to relive his childhood, while well intentioned, is probably the cruelest thing any Zelda has done in the timelines in regards to Link. She knows what he's gone through, and I'm sure she would have meant well, but I don't know if someone can just move past what Link went through.
It's also one of the worst decisions made in the series in hindsight. Wind Waker implies that had Link not been sent back in time then Hyrule might not have been flooded and then destroyed at the end of the game.
@@Jay-xk6dj I thought that was the link lost timeline
@@Jay-xk6dj Wind Waker takes place in the branch where Link *isn't* sent back in time. Thats why people know who the Hero of Time is. In the timeline where he gets sent back, no one know who the Hero of Time is because Links actions prevent OoT from happening. Hyrule gets flooded in Wind Waker because there isn't anyone to stop Ganon, and flooding it was the best the gods could do.
@@HexManiac-nf1yg Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks (in that order) are in the "Hero is Triumphant - Adult" timeline.
@@ferrosplice8460 No Wind Waker is very specifically set in the original timeline from the end of OoT. At the end of the game Zelda sends him back to before he pulls out the sword but that timeline continues on. Wind Waker almost states this as a fact at the start of the game. There isn't a timeline where Link isn't sent back from the end of OoT unless you count the fallen timeline but its not possible for WW to be in that one since the Hero of Time clearly won.
Since we see Naboru turn into an orange ball of light after getting struck by the witches, I always thought that Rauru was teleporting her to the Sacred Realm to prevent her from getting brainwashed again. He couldn't do so before because the first time it happened was in front of the temple and she therefor wasn't close enough to the temple's gateway to the Sacred Realm and he couldn't reach her. Only after the mind control was broken and while she was in the temple could he protect her by teleporting her out to safety.
You make a very good point. Also wasn’t the color of light she vanished into the same color Rauru was associated with?
@@alexkuhn5188 yeah that’s what she’s saying
Was just about to leave this same comment. 100% agree with that logic. Rauru swooped her up JUST before the magic hit her.
Good eye and theory
Good to know that I wasn't the only one who thought that. I always thought that Rauru teleported all of the sages just before they could be harmed.
If they weren't dead before, they'll definitely have died waiting for Nintendo's Zelda 35th announcement!!
😅 for real
21.02.2021 is 35th
This
Since the anniversary is on the 21st of February, I'm hoping THAT is when they'll do it.
@@mischarowe Nah that's a sunday they'll probably do it the friday before or monday after just like I doubt the pokemon 25th will be on the 28th
Whenever I saw Mido sitting down next to King Zora as a kid, I thought he was on timeout
Good point
Why yes
Lol
lol I can see why. Edit: I also thought that too when i was younger
Yet Mido is probably much older than king zora.
Judging from the analysis, and because Japan, I would have to say their transformation has a lot to do with shinto - in other words, not that the characters have died per se, but that they were originally kami given mortal form, then called to ascend at a certain time. Saria ascended from the forest temple but her power was restricted as the temple was profaned; Darunia, Ruto, and Impa ascended during their assault on the besiegers of the temple, and Nabooru ascended right as Koume and Kotake intended to re-brainwash her which was what made it seem like she was killed.
68th 👍
this is very interesting. thanks for sharing!
@@bensoncheung2801 170th 🤓
Sages seem to die regardless, which is why they're different in each game. The OOT sages probably live about as long as their species normally would. This explains why in WW, we don't see Rita and Saria play with Medli and Makar. Perhaps as time went on, new Sages didn't have to be separated from their loved ones, as Links throughout the ages dealt with evil, instead of using Sages to prevent evil. ALttP sages on the other hand seem to be related to the OOT sages, so maybe their bloodlines remained in the spirit realm.
@@YujiUedaFan The way I view it is kind of like Link, Zelda, and Ganon being tied to the triforce; the sages are reincarnations of their past selves reaching out to what will ultimately be their replacement.
Each is descended from the 7 Maidens/Guardians/Goddesses who represent elements in the world; together they can act much like the goddess Hylia in being able to seal evil, but their souls recycle after each instance of activity. One individual from each race of beings is chosen to fulfill a greater destiny; their divinity is restored, their mortal life acts as motivation and perspective into why they can't afford to fail, the two lives reconcile, and they become a sage tasked with defending their realm once more. Mortals can exist in the corporeal realm but sages are divine spirits: they can only exist wholly in the sacred realm or manifest as sort of temporary apparitions in the corporeal realm. They go on living in the sacred realm for the length of time they would have lived irl or they simply persist until their souls grow weary and they once again fade back into the cycle.
The whispers the unawakened sages hear could be their past selves trying to reach out and trigger their memory or it could be an inkling of memory held by their divine selves - basically think the divine soul is the original and the mortal is a dream being experienced by the sleeping sage. The sage awakens, the dream comes into conflict, but given a quiet place to come to terms with things - their true nature wins out and the dream becomes just one more facet/cherished memory of a very old soul.
That upscaled 3DS footage is gorgeous. It would be cool if Nintendo could port that version of Ocarina of Time to the Switch.
Wow you predict the future! Will darunia get his spin-off?
Not official but there is a PC port now because OOT was completely de compiled and built from the ground up on PC, like Mario 64
Not only I never believed they died, I also don't even think they were forced to remain in the Chamber. I always saw the glowing lights as them returning to the physical world, mostly because Rauru, the only one 100% confirmed to be dead, is NOT with them on Death Mountain.
They probably returned there because it was the highest point in all of Hyrule.
Yeah, this is the most likely explanation imo. We know from ALttP and ALBW that each Sage has a descendant and since Darunia is the only one who has a child that we know of at the time of OoT, we can assume that with Ganondorf trapped in the Sacred Realm that the Sages were allowed to return to their normal lives and have families. Though it still doesn't explain Saria's case, since Kokori/Koroks are magical beings who I would assume cannot reproduce.
Even the song changes from a sad tone to fanfarre when they show up, clear evidence of a wish coming true, a miracle.
I second that.
or cuz it's DEATH Mountain
Best explanation extra points for the optimism
I've always thought it was Navi who warned Link about the water before the Morpha fight.
Same
I am so glad to hear that I was not the only one who thought that
It's very clear from the Japanese dialogue that it is meant to be Ruto.
@@yum2735 Really?! Wow, I thought I knew everything about this game!
@@yum2735 I never knew that.
I've always interpreted it as more "living in a realm out of time" than a realm for dead people. Otherwise how would Link, a not dead person, be able to go there and back?
I definently agree with you but I just started thinking isn't Rauru dead
@@dpincay5375 Is he dead, or is he just held out of time like all the other sages might be?
@@Evilhalfdead Yeah unfortunately he was the only sage confirmed to be dead but his spirit was there I think he said in video
Mythology is full of stories of living people going into and out of the underworld.
I think when they died, their spirits are selected and instead of going to the realm of the dead they became protectors of hyrule. Residing in the inbetween to aid the hero of time.
Even as an 11 year old I assumed the sages had just ascended to become immortal protectors of Hyrule. I didn't exactly think they were dead..but it still felt somber, as if they sacrificed their mortal, fruitful lives to be alone and celibate and watch over Hyrule - such a sacrifice, in a sense almost as bittersweet as if they died ..left an impact on me..made me appreciate people in the world who had integrity and as I grew I realized just how rare that quality was - this game really shaped parts of who I am today and it was the perfect coming-of-age adventure a boy could ever ask for
I completely agree :,)
4:46 I don't think they are oblivious. Saria and Impa intentionally went to the temples to check the problem because they knew it had something to do with their role as sage. We also see Saria spending her time near the Forest Temple all the time
Darunia went to get the Hammer, beat Volgavia, and save the Gorons. Ruto went into the temple to unfreeze the Domain. Nabooru was brainwashed, but initially she went to get the Gauntlets
Impa and Saria were mentioned to go to check the "spirits" there.
Saria explicitly says she feels this place will be important to both of them, not that she knows it is. So it seems like Sages have an inkling of some kind but don't necessarily know what it means.
I always thought they were dead during my first play through... I remember thinking they all died fighting the bosses in their respective dungeons and their departed spirits became the sages.
I could get, but I doubt Sari did very well...
@@Mrnibbles-nq2zn it's likely they all were magically sage swooped to safety before they could be killed, as we see possibly maybe is the case with Nabooru
Yeah that's what I believe as well. Saria was killed after bravely going to confront Phantom Ganon (perhaps not knowing what she would find). Darunia was most likely devoured by Volvagia. Ruto strangled to death by Morpha. Impa pummeled to a pulp by Bongo Bongo. Only Nabooru seems to not have suffered a gruesome death.
I thought they were stuck on the Sacred Realm, and they would get back somehow, but seeing that they didn't come down from Death Mountain, and all that evidence, it's hard to believe they didn't die
Same here
I never thought they died. To me, the sages were like the hero, ready for their call but then went home once everything was over. The theme is cheerful when we see them on Death Mountain, a place where they can see all of Hyrule and the good they did. Just like soldiers after a war, they will never be the same but they are back home.
Yea I agree, people are overlooking the simple fact that, dead or not, they are free to roam hyrule as they please. Pretty fuggin beautiful if you ask me.
I don't think they can return home, their mortal lives are at an end, they are now sages, demigods.
Exactly and Wind Waker debunks this, on top of that. A dead sage is a powerless one and makes the Master Sword useless, otherwise, Link would've been defeated by Ganon in OOT.
The fact that a sage already ascended in Twilight Princess can be killed by Ganondorf, along with Windwaker's sages being killed and needing living successors certainly seems to suggest a 'sage' isn't without a life to be taken. They may be higher than mortal, but still need a life to fulfill their role. If a sage was felled in battle with the monster in their temple, they may have been called to the Sacred Realm before they died. They may also have been called the moment they opened the door and taken to the Chamber of Sages.
It could also be that they 'die' in a sense to begin their duties, shedding a physical body in Hyrule for one solely able to exist in the Sacred Realm. They are 'alive' in the sense they have working biology consistent with their new plane of existence, but whatever was going on with them in Hyrule is over. If one could access the Sacred Realm and overpower the not-small might of a Sage, you could probably just stab them or whatever.
You can visit the sages in WW after escorting them to the central chambers. They just don’t acknowledge Link and keep on playing their melodies (which is pretty cool that the devs thought to include that)
But, they are Very Much alive.
Also the maidens in LttP fill the role of the sages they’re descended from and are actually rescued. And in LBW after Link defeats YugaGanon they’re able to return home to their loved ones
The video is pretty much the recap of the information mentioned in the interview, minus the more specific information that the Nintendo rep mentioned in the interview.
Windwaker was set in a time period before Ocerina of Time took place. The sages are a lot younger in Windwaker compared to Ocerina of Time. I guess that your game data gets deleted if you actually talk to one of them, considering that the game is programed to restore back your save data somehow if you delete it. The method that we did somehow actually surprisingly worked. The devs briefly mentioned something about your save data and checking if it was still there when talking to the sages after you escorted them back to their chambers; it was talked about in more detail when they were discussing why exactly the music was placed there for each of the sages. I am not saying the exact truth, even though I might know ot from reading an interview about a Nintendo rep talking about in full detail in a really early interview. I could only explain in semi-full detail to you anyways in very vague details; even I could recall some of the details about some of the interview. The Nintendo rep even mentions that you would have to resort back to this exact interview for more information. The Nintendo rep thought that a video like this would be uploaded to TH-cam about this particular topic as well. I honestly thought about saving the link that that the interview was found on, but ultimately did not because I thought that no one would be interested in reading about the topic at the time.
It might be the exact same concept as with Aslan in the Chronicle of Narnia movie series. Eventually he had to show his face to stop the impending threat and got killed by the White Witch by being stabbed in the stomach.
There's one more piece of evidence not mentioned in the video that points to the sages being dead. In the Forest Temple, if you play Saria's song to talk to her after you have opened the way to the boss, but before going in, she will mention feeling an evil presence before cutting herself off with a scream. This could well be the moment that she is killed by Phantom Gannon.
Do you have anything that shows this? like a gameplay video with it or something
Yeah your right actually I’d completely forgotten about that I was messing around with the ocarina and played her song and that exact sentence she said came up now obviously that could mean 2 things 1 that saria saw phantom gannon hence the scream or phantom gannon really did kill her I don’t think we will ever know but I’m leaning towards more that she was killed simply because every time you defeat a boss in the adult timeline they reawaken as sages which might imply that they died now of course that could be just speculation but it kind of makes sense well to me anyway
Can't that scream also be she being surprised but interruption means she was teleported by Rauru?
I’ve never thought there was any possibility besides the sages having died. Many of them seemed to end up in characteristically desperate situations and encounters with them were extremely somber.
I have always thought of it like what happens to the Champions in Breath of the Wild, the boss of each Temple killed each of the stages.
Just imagine, Ruto suffocating inside of Morpha, mistaking it for water.
Could be possible
@@starthing1255 holy fuck that makes a lot of sense
@@d4rkmn643she’s a fish, fishes can’t drown
@@boyboilNEO9055 fishes dont drown because they can get the oxygen from the water. morpha isnt water, therefore she can drown in it
Link is really built different. His life is always terrifying.
He also gets all the bitches but he doesn't let that distract him on his journey.
He's also apparently, extremely attractive to everyone around him regardless of species.
Ig that means even Ganon is jealous of link hot bod
I feel this is just like Botw, in the sense that they tried to fight Ganon’s monsters and died that way
Exactly
Darunia was fighting a goron eating dragon
Ruto was killed by Morpha.. . We probably shouldn’t talk about that one.
Feels like Saria was basically murdered. Unless you wanna get Hyrule Warriors about it.
Saria darunia they weren't killed its specifically mentions that they were called as sages but ganon stopped them by infesting monsters so link had to sort of cleanse each dungeon to awaken them
Honestly, it never explicitly says that they don't return. We see them reappear on death mountain, but that doesn't mean that they're gone forever. In fact if anything it's an argument that after the events of Ocarina that they were released from the sacred realm. Likely with Rauru staying behind to continue preparing for the next time an event like that happens again, as he's not with the others amidst their celebration and, may in fact, be an actual spirit as he's already reincarnated into the Owl. I also think its good to note that sages clearly have a physical presence in Hyrule, considering we have TP's sages carrying out the assassination of Ganondorf not in the spirit realm itself, but in the Desert Colossus. If you look at how sages operate in WW, it's clear that Medli and Makar are more there to offer up their prayers, but there's nothing that indicates that they were stuck there forever, just that Link leaves them to give prayer in their temples while finishing up his adventure. Sure, they join actually dead spirits Lanayru and Fado, but that doesn't mean that they are eternally trapped.
If the true argument for them being forcibly separated from the rest of hyrule at the end is simply " they appeared in death mountain and not lon lon ranch " then I don't think that's strong enough of an argument to say that they didn't actually return afterwards. Mido and King Zora are both leaders of their tribe, and yes, both very hurt after the events of the game, but it didn't mean that they didn't get to see Saria and Ruto again after they returned.
Here's the thing: From Death Mountain you can get to Kakariko Town and Goron City, from Goron City, you can get to the Lost Woods from the Lost Woods you can get to Kokiri Forest and Zora's river. From Zora's river you can reach Zora's domain and Hyrule (also Kakariko and the Lost Woods (Bridge)), from Zora's domain you can reach Lake Hylia and from Hyrule you can reach Gerudo Valley.
Death Mountain goes to/from a lot of places.
I did realize that Mido was alone w/ King Zora originally, but I never thought much of it lol. I just laughed at Mido 💀💀 And before I saw the distinctive lights of the Sages, I thought he was seeing Link return as a kid. (Obviously not true lol) However, now that I think about it, it's pretty meaningful that King Zora and Mido saw the green and blue sparkles, presumably representing Saria and Ruto. If they were in fact dead or unable to see them again, I like to believe that that was their final way of saying goodbye. It was an attempt to give their living loved ones closure 😭😭😰 so sweet but so sad
My personal theory was that they went into some other dimension where they would watch over hyrule until new sages came to be
Do you mean dimension? 😄
Correct
Same
@@kurosawa9857 what? He said dimension. 🤔
@@iandiehl1385 tis edited
Going back to Naboru, if you look closely at the animation when she's struck by the balls of fire and ice, she is spirited away in an orange light. This light has the same tone as the one at the credits scene, and going by the fact that in most games the Sages need to be alive to work (in Windwaker Makar and Medley, in ALBW each sage is most definitely alive, and in TP Ganondorf straight up kills one), I'd say that they are transported to the sacred realm before they die in case of dangerous situations like Darunia's and Naboru's, or when they learn they are the sages and enter the temples, this being the most likely, in my opinion, with Ruto, Impa and Sariah
Damn that’s a valid point with WW
Makes sense. Because red and blue doesn't make orange.
I played Ocarina of Time when it first launched and many, many, more times after that. It’s one of my favorite games of all time especially to replay. That being said, I NEVER knew that Ruto was warning you about the water in the boss room of the Water Temple. I was always thought it was Navi! 😆
Same. I always thought it was Navi warning you about the water too lol 😅
Based on what does he say it's Ruto? From all we know it's Navi.
@@wearywanderer1912 In the Japanese version, Zoras have a verbal tic where they say "Zora" at the end of their sentences, and you can tell it's not Navi because of the color of the text being white instead of Navi's signature blue text
@@jaidens.g.1920 I imagined Zeltik wouldn't screw up, but he probably should've explained. It's not so obvious in the American version, the only sign is the text color.
Me too!
I always took the optimistic swell in music when the Sages reappeared to mean that they returned to Hyrule. Especially after Mido and King Zora were shown to be so down-trodden before they are stirred by the green and blue lights.
That would make sense since the sages in aLBW the sages do that.
This video has some amazing points. I actually have a theory while I was watching. I think they chose Princess Zelda as the 7th sage to embody a Light sage that was living. It's known that Rauru is dead during the story, but he's only seen in the Chamber of Sages. And since Rauru passed away a long time ago, Zelda was probably chosen to kind of replace Rauru as the living Sage of Light.
Then there would only be 6 sages.
@@DaDunge It could be a thing where Rauru is the afterlife's Light sage and Zelda is the mortal Light sage. It could explain why when Zelda isn't around Rauru is the Leader.
No, she's the 7th sage, representing Hylians, the 7th race, and she's said to carry the blood of a goddess through her mother's line.
Link to the Past had 7 sage descendants rather than 6. Also, the sages need to pass on their bloodlines to create the maidens.
Personally I think even thematically it's stronger if they're alive.
If say darunia dies by dragon and then becomes a sage, its not really much of a sacrifice for him to then become a sage when he's dead anyway.
Whereas, if they're alive and actively choosing to leave hyrule and reside in the sacred realm for the rest of their lives so they can perform their duty, that's a much bigger sacrifice and dedication.
If they're alive, they're actually giving up a lot more than if they're dead.
Well, Darunia still died to save his people. Thats very honorable. Actually, if they all died (all the sages) they did it trying to save their people, what is more honorable than that?
@f 0 That's a good point.
Darunia entered the boss chamber right in front of you so unless he fled to the sacred realm mid-fight he died he is 100% dead. He isn’t one to run from a fight though.
@@GODOFAWSOMENESS1 yeah, Darunia was so brave, he wouldn´t scape! that is one of the Goron´s caracteristics, they are brave and honorable.
@@GODOFAWSOMENESS1
Presumably (dead or alive) it would be Rauru bringing them into the sacred realm the first time rather than them actively choosing to go there.
The same way Link is brought to the sacred realm when he pulls the sword without choosing to go there.
So even alive he wouldn't be running from a fight, Rauru would be removing him from one.
We know 100% that sages can be teleported from temples to the sacred realm. We know 100% living people can go there, because link does.
The boss room is typically the 'heart' of the temple, so it would make sense that that's where the connection to the sacred realm is strongest and he can bring them in.
I think good evidence for the fact that they're alive is that only 5 of the sages came back to death mountain. Roru, the only sage to be confirmed dead, wasn't there.
Maybe Roru didn’t appear because he has little connection to current Hyrule.
@@jonusaguilar8156 That's not really the point. He could have appeared in owl form, since that's what he reincarnated as.
I agree with the other 2, this is weak evidence.
Plus wiki confirmed Rauru and the owl as the same being. The guy is speaking headcanon bs.
maybe roru must protect the secret realm
This is literally a question I had pondered for years right after beating that game. Love having a video to watch that really dives into it.
Oh sure I wanted to win, but thinking that they might be dead made it feel really uneasy. All the more so with the uncertainty.
Me too. I was sad as a kid to think that Saria might be dead, so it's good to see Zeltik talking about this.
That's the magic of the Zelda series. If you think things in OoT happen a certain way (sages all die/a few of the sages die), the game feels darker than it actually is. It's a sort of blessing in a way, in that it makes the games feel more impactful.
Sadly my first Legend Of Zelda game is Breath Of The Wild
@@ttt4778 dont worry about saria they returned in the end rememeber. Plus it specifically mentions in the official story that they were summoned as sages only to be stopped by ganon who infested the temples so link had to sort of cleanse in order to awaken them
Saria’s fairy is also missing in the sacred realm... just another clue that she’s not alive.
Very true
THIS
Good point!
Doesn’t a fairy’s duty end when it no longer needs to serve whom it was assigned to? Just like how Navi leaves link at the end.
@@shadowspirit93 link isn't a kokiri tho
I do think they seem to have "ascended" into some sort of higher beings and thus are not allowed to return to their normal lives, and specifically with Saria, her line of "not being able to live in the same world as Link" may be because as a sage she realized Link has travelled through time and in the end he will return to his true timeline, thus disappearing from "future Saria's world"
Going back to they "dying" I think what happens is that the monsters in the temples are in charge of capturing them, not kill them, so maybe Ruto and Darunia, who disappear suddenly after meeting them in the temples are simply transported to some sort of prison linked to the boss of each temple, this would make sense with the fact that after beating te forest temple Sheik says to Link how he "freed" the sage, not avenged
Different from when we meet the champions in BoTW
Also, this might be a dumb point but, we do meet characters before and after their deaths: Dampé, Koume, and Kotake, and they all clearly have a halo over their heads, Dampé is a normal hylian so this doesn't have to be related to magic powers but the fact that none of the sages seem to have a halo makes me think they didn't die, at least in the traditional sense ( I understand that the halo could've been more for comedic effect specially on the witches, but going by a completely in-universe explanation based on canon events of the game, then they would need to have the halo if they were dead)
Link doesnt time travel until Zelda screws up and sends him back when he pulls the Master Sword the first time he is sealed and sleeps for the entire time
@@ziegfeld4131 He time travels multiple times before that. Like for example he has to go back as young Link to get the silver gauntlets from the spirit temple. That can only be explained with some kind of time travel where he's sent back to the point before he was pulled into the future.
“Personally, while I love the idea the the sages die...”
Lmao irk this sounds very wrong out of context
I think 90% of oot players love the idea of ruto being dead
I like ruto but i understand a lot of people dont like her
@@milanbeerepoot4260 I think the water temple made those ppl bitter, rightfully so
@@mikau1585 wellnot me
I liked the water temple too
And no i didnt play the 3ds version first
I liked the music and atmosphere of the place and didnt mind going into my items all the time
I guess some people are just impatient
@@milanbeerepoot4260 Yeah, I don't have much of a problem with the temple. It really excels at some things! But having to constantly go into the menu for one stage and one stage alone is janky level design. Everyone's opinion is valid though :)
It's a weird coincidence that Mido and King Zora could see these sparkles of light, thinking this happens in the Adult Link timeline, leading to WW and the zora and kokiri sages from Wind and Earth Temples
Huh. Now that you mentioned it, I never thought of it in that light. Just as death is a theme in Majora's Mask, Ocarina of Time is all about sacrifice: Link sacrifices his childhood for Hyrule's future, thus living forever with the knowledge of nobody remembering or knowing what he's done. Only Zelda and those in the Royal Family know and that's not much comfort. No wonder the Hero of Time is so beloved even to this day. He is the living definition of a tragic hero.
Thats how i saw it. Link riding epona in despair into the lost woods. Brings him to termina. They basically took everything from him even something to fight.
I was always under the impression that in the final fight of the spirit temple, the two witches became one by using Naboru's body. Since the witches die at the end of the fight, it would only make sense that Naboru's body was destroyed to kill them.
I don't think that's the case. When they "recaptured" her they explicitly said it's because she commands a lot of respect among the gerudo and intended to brainwash her again to continue taking advantage of that respect.
That is a cool theory tho. If that was the case it probably would've had a greater implication though
I figured they used a teleport spell. Also they have twinrova in another they don't have to use someone's body. They did not use the sages body
To me, it makes way more sense if their dead. "Saria" is a perfect example. In the past, she's there in the grove, and gives you Saria's song. You return as an adult to the same location, and everything goes silent! Zelda comes in after you, and says "Time can be cruel". Secondly, a few of the elf's talk about her in past-tense. This is pretty self-evident to me.
Because Saria is too busy dealing with the forest temple to be playing her ocarina like she usually does.
I have this list of possible sages in Breath of the Wild:
1. Mipha- most water sages are Zora
2. Daruk- most fire sages are at least half-Goron
3. Urbosa- closely connected to Nabooru
4. Impa- sage of shadow is almost always Impa
5. Hestu- sage of wind or forest, both are children of Deku Tree and play magical instruments
6. Rhoam- strong connection to Rauru: both are long dead, resemble NES Old Man, situate Link in Temple of Time after long slumber, guide Link as alter-egos. He also uses some kind of light magic in Age of Calamity
7. Zelda- common sense
Extra- Revali- only other wind sage is a Rito
The rito Medli and her zora predecessor were the Earth Sages. The Wind Sages were Makar, the korok, and the kokori before him.
@@KeybladeXMage Meaning Tulin is part Korok.
They give up their responsibilities? I wish I could do that
Don't we all sometimes?
They give up their responsibilities to have bigger responsibilities.
Just transition into a women 😀
@@BalboaBaggins What... don’t women have more responsibilities than men? Especially now in the 21st century where women are also expected to have jobs they have more responsibilities than ever.
Why are sexists so stupid?
@@flup1303 "expected to have jobs"? lol by whom? Literally no one is forcing them to have jobs. It's what they prefer over being a wife, like they have been for the last 200.000 years and serves them better. Women have all the privileges and advantages in life, think about divorce, custody, #Me too lies, "equality" nonsense etc. etc. Don't turn this around and gain some life experience before posting something stupid on the internet.
Zelda is the leader of the bunch, you know her well
And she's finally back...
To kick some tail
Donkey zelly
she's the seventh member of the sage's crew, UNH
This is exactly what I started thinking when he said that 😅
I think Rauru rescues Nabooru right there. The magic she disappears in matches his colour - Kotake and Koume are red and blue and their mixed power is purple - as seen when they abducted her when Link is a child. So I agree she's absolutely not dead. I think they only have to stay until the seal is more....sealed if you know what I mean.
In Breath of the Wild both Ruto and Nabooru are named, I would have to check if they're described as ancestors though, because that would certainly be confirmation that they lived and eventually returned to their peoples.
And who knows what happens with the timeline and the Sages.
Yeah, it always seemed to me that they weren’t permanently severed from the living world. More so that they had to stay until their duty was fulfilled.
Yes!! I thought the same thing!!
Nah, they died.
I never saw it that way as they died. I just think they just transcended into higher dimensional entitles, so high that they can't really interact in the same world as Link anymore in some way. Navi unfortunately more than likely died due to her role as a fairy and didn't want Link to see her disappear. Now that is tragic
"The sages, as glowing wisps, fly to DEATH mountain"
I've always thought the sages died but never did I put 2 and 2 together on that one...
It took me forever to realize that death mountain is called death mountain because it has a halo above it
I don't think they've necessarily died, as in something in the temples MURDERED them (though it is possible). I think they're more 'effectively' dead, as in their time living in Hyrule has ended and while they still protect it, they cannot stay within for very long at a time without expending energy needlessly.
@@firenze6478
Nope. Death Mountain is a series staple since the first NES Game-and it has that name ‘cause its Dungeon Map is literally laid out like a skull and it’s where Link finally faces off against Ganon.
In LttP-Onward it’s blatantly a volcano that chucks flaming rocks at Link; but the idea of Link needing to avoid getting hit by rocky debris already existed in Zelda1 in various mountainous areas (they were just avalanches/rockslides vs implied to be molten)
But it’s DEATH Mountain ‘cause 1) series precedent and 2) volcanoes technically are mountains, just mountains that spit lava and whatnot at you (therefore making them Deadlier than regular mountains). Also 80s&90s melodrama for All Things Skull-Themed And Volcanic -seriously. If they could work in a skull or volcano into media of these eras, they did-
Why isn't Rauru there tho? He's the only sage that has actually been confirmed to have died. Also if dead sages could fulfill their role why would Zelda need to be the sage of light when Rauru is the sage of light? I think it's because Rauru is dead and Zelda isn't.
@@swagmiredoesall Zelda has the blood of a goddess in her, so I think THAT waives a few things.
If they had to be dead to become sages, then why didn't just keep the first ones forever instead of the need to awake new ones?
Used to think they were dead... now, almost 23 years later, not so much. Excellent video!
to Kotake and Koume maybe they say something different in the japanese original what was suited for the western market and changed (as it happened often). But since I can't read or speak japanese I don't know what they say in that scene
I checked, and it's along the same lines! They intend to keep her brainwashed
I was curious so i found a japanese play through of OoT, that part pretty much translated exactly, basically they were like, "aw, she became sane.... time to brainwash her again!" lol
@@avengefullgirl95 I also think they sent her to some kind of prison to deal with after Link. Why else would they take their sweet time sinking her into that quicksand/black whole, if they could simply *snap* turn her? Plus, if they had an instant-kill move that could take out one of the strongest Gerudo warriors (albeit weakend), why change to simple ice and fire magic for Link?
I'm more used to the N64 graphics as opposed to the later 3D updates. So I'm always taken aback by how Saria's expression looks in the 3D version. It's so laid- back, like she just smoked a doobie.
I always thought it was quite obviously suggested the Sages died. Pretty much all of them went into the respective Temples and confronted the evil there in some way. So whether they actually died (I hope not but do think so) or, whether they did not actually die but simply were chosen and ascended in some way, almost makes no difference. They function very much similarly to what we could call a Guardian Angel of sorts, and I guess the only true difference would be that they did not need to suffer the transition of living to dead. But like the video said too, Darunia confronted the boss, and many other Sages did similar things so I personally have always assumed that they were dead or as good as dead, living on through grace and helping the living.
Except LttP had their descendants.
I'm more of the opinion that there were original "ancient" sages that were sages of their respective temples. But in the 7 year gap when Link was "asleep" in the Temple of Light, when Ganon took power, the ancient sages were killed by Ganondorf's forces (except for Rauru who conveniently was watching over Link during his slumber), which necessitated new sages to be awakened, thus the OOT sages. We see this concept in Wind Waker when the Wind and Earth sages were killed, and new ones had to be awakened (Makar and Medli in this case).
Note that these original "ancient sages" were present in TP in the Child timeline where Ganondorf was subdued before he could take power courtesy of Link's warning.
Ganondorf:😠
Sages:💀
( that otaku and meat guy meme)
but when we are a child princess ruto is still a child and i dont think you could be achild sage unless you are a kokiri
@@sarahquayyum8176 In a Link Between Wolrlds Gulley is a small child and he is a sage
@@sarahquayyum8176 Ruto was a sage in the adult timeline but in the Kid timeline she wasnt cause the future was preventive by link with the triforce of courage showing kid zelda that her dream was real and the king took both warning serious since link used thr triforce of courage as evidence.
@@sarahquayyum8176 She wasn't a child at this time, because she wasn't awakened nor did she need to be. And in the Child Timeline, she as never awakened as Ganondrof was thwarted before he put his plan into action, courtesy of Young Link coming back form the Adult Timeline to warn the Royal Family of Ganondorf's treachery.
I’ve always took it as a form of ascension. They don’t die, though in most cases may of been in danger of such a fate before this. However they are raised into an ascended like state because of the realm calling to them. Still more or less spirits, but less so than the actual dead. Twilight Princess I feel shows this the best, where the sages are still clearly their OoT counterparts, but forgotten. Most, save the most important of Hyrule, don’t even know of them anymore. However despite being much older than ever before, they’re still them, and can even be killed.
I always assumed the same thing!
When twilight princess happens I see it as the OOT sages were never awaken because the original sages didn't need to be replaced because the temples were never corrupted. So the successor sages got to live out normal lives in the altered child timeline while the adult timeline they stayed in the sacred realm
I don´t think there were other sages but what can support this theory is that we can see Ruto´s descendants.
Just one question
It’s pretty obvious that if the sages are immortals they lived till twilight princess era, and Ruto (water sage) was killed by ganon when trying to seal up Ganon
But who will be the next sage of water after that?
I think, the zora queen that died in twilight princess maybe became the sage of water after the ending
This makes sense when you think about how hundreds of years have passed leading to the sages losing more an more identity though time and storytelling,. As their story is fresh and in the mind of those in after the events of OoT, they resemble their more individual selves, but as time passes they adopt more formal forms as seen in Twilight Princess.
You know what they say.... Sacrifices had to be made to save the day
@@bastienlafleur5838 Yes actually ^^
Yep. Also their sacrifice is more meaningful if they did it to save Hyrule.
@@bastienlafleur5838 Most likely not. :P Nothing suggests this at all really. What does exist would mostly be Saria's deep connection to nature and the spirits of the forest, and the lingering spirits of the dead throughout Hyrule in this game. And then there's the Triforce wielders and magic, and Hylia and descendants' ability to use magic.
I just realized how similar the situation the sages are in, is to the situation the champions encounter in breath of the wild. All of them tries to provide help for Link to defeat Ganon, but they are ultimately killed in the “temples” in which they were trying to help Hyrule in
Just because they can be balls of light doesn't mean they're dead, PAIGE.
No reply to a great channel? Is it just because there is no variation mark?
Maybe it is because the comment doesn't really add anything that warrants a reply.
@@lukoscreyden it was ok, and also I like the guy. People reply to much less substance for much less reason.
True
That one power ranger would like to have a word with you
No matter the answer their spirits will live on in our memories
And Link's...
Is it a coincidence that it was King Zora and Mido that were together? I mean a Zora would eventually be the Earth Sage and a Kokiri a Wind Sage which are the only sages in the Wind Waker.
I liked that part and even more so now considered your comment.
Could be that Mido and King Zora forged a lasting bond with their people that took over as sages once there were new ones needed after the world flooded.
I think it's one of those things where it's not 100% literal. There are multiple reads on the situation, and many of them could be true. I always interpreted it as a kind of transcendence, where they become something less physical. It's like a death, but their bodies haven't necessarily been destroyed in the process. I really liked your idea of Rauru pulling them into the sacred realm. Since he was able to do that for Link, it makes total sense that he could do that for them as well. Alternatively, it could be that the process of "awakening" is what pulls them in, and the sacred realm might be more of a kind of "unseen realm" that's everywhere at once.
Thing is, if they were transformed into sages, it could be said that they still actually died. What I mean is, becoming a spirit being they would be forced to shed their mortal bodies and as such would effectively be "dead" even if they still continued to exist.
The problem with that argument is that Rauru, the only sage confirmed to be dead, can't fulfill his role anymore. That's why Zelda became the sage of light. If sages could be dead and still fulfill their role then why wouldn't Rauru continue his role as the sage if light? It's because he's dead and Zelda isn't.
@@swagmiredoesall There need to be seven living sages to seal Ganon, and seven living descendants to break the seal. If Rauru was dead, he probably found a loophole in possessing the owl or something.
Since I was a 7 year old kid I've been convinced Nabooru was a vessel for Kotake and Koume's double dynamite attack. That's why Link is so shocked when they fuse, because he recognizes it as a brainwashed Nabooru. So in this case the boss of the dungeon didn't kill the sage, Link did.
i think hes stunned because those old hags became hot for once lol
Dude these rips from the 3DS version look so good!
Maybe they didn’t die... maybe during the end credits when the sages appear on the mountain they where sent there after they where done helping seal Gannon away and where able to continue life. With king Zora and Mido thinking they where actually dead but then surprised and probably relieved to see they’re still alive.
Mido is the spelling you are after.
Well said
I think they needed to be Sages in order to keep Ganondorf sealed.
@@JCO78 But perhaps they CAN return, now that he is sealed. Provided they reside in and protect their temples, it wouldn't be that out of line. Rauru's temple is in the Sacred Realm itself, which explains why he isn't among the group watching the sun rise!
I think I'll go with this as my headcanon. It'd be such a happy scene, watching Link go back to his house after sealing the Master Sword and finding Saria there waiting for him.
@@saraross8396 thanks
I love this channel, someone so deeply enthralled with love for a video game series and could talk about it forever. I could listen forever too. Thanks Zeltik
The ending with the sages, even as a kid, left me so melancholy after I beat the game.
Every good Zelda game since has some aspect that gives a similar feeling as well. I love it that they don't just gloss over that either and make it seem all happy. These characters give up their lives to be sages and as noble as it is, that's sad too. Another good moment like that is in Wind Waker where Prince Komali sits waiting for Medli to come back, and it's really sad that you know, she's never going to be able to come back.
But she does come back, she’s seen with Makar after Link and Tetra surface.
Regarding Nabooru, I think it's noteworthy that she disappears in a GOLDEN light, rather than the purple that blue and red would make together. I think Roru rescued her at the last moment, as the color of his magic would be yellow.
17:04
"Personally, while I *love* the idea that the sages die during ocarina of time..."
i was like YOU FUCKING WHAT
I always thought they never died but rather have up a physical form I also find it a bit strange that Darunias son isn't there celebrating
prob because his Darunias son found out that his dad died but king zora and mido ore still there
Why were the Gorons celebrating anyway? Maybe they don't mind manly deaths. Darunia's son is probably too busy being the new ruler...
I always assumed the sages were dead myself. Especially in the fire temple when you see Darunia enter the boss room but vanish by the time you arrive.
In an unused message, he tells Link “I can’t hold it any longer. Get out of here!!” in the same way as Ruto before the Morpha fight
Honestly, I think it is a bigger sacrifice for them to still be alive. Knowing that they can never see their loved ones again, but don't have the comfort of knowing they are dead. I dunno it just seems like it would be harder to know you're alive but stuck in the Sacred Realm forever.
Awesome stuff as always Zeltik!! 👏🏼
I've played this game so many times, but I never even considered why King Zora and Mido were away from everyone else in the first place. Ocarina of Time truly is brilliant with its subtle storytelling. It's like I learn something new about the game every time I come back to it.
You should preferably try to track down the interviews that Nintendo agreed to do about the game in early 2000s about Ocerina of Time. They should at least somewhat interest you to some degree. Nintendo probably knowingly talked about things that they likely knew that people would eventually be playing the game every year to never have even heard of before reading the information of what they have to say about it. I believe that they may or not have admitted to specifically only talking about those points mlre specifically saying something like they will never ever find these out by themselves, and that they knew that eventually the game would eventually become a yearly tradition for fans of the series to eventually be doing in the future as well. Nintendo definitely admitted that they knew what would be said about the game in the future as well.
There is a theory that during the Twinrova boss fight the witches fuse with Nabooru and Link kills her during the fight.
This is super interesting!
My personal kind of headcanon was that when they reached the boss/final room of the temple they got somehow sent into the sacred realm rather than dying to whatever boss is there, since like there'd have to be some way for heading into the temples to take them there irrespective of if a boss is in the dungeon, especially since when Link is sent there too after beating the bosses, it is from the same room. Only thing I'm unsure on with that is Nabooru, maybe Twinrova teleported her into the boss room when mind controlling her and that got her freed/sent to the sacred realm.
This channel is pretty bloody brilliant. Have listened to a lot of episodes lately. Love it.
I never really thought of them as dead but being a sage made them a special kind of being that's part of the spirit realm, not alive or dead. They are the guardians of their respective temples. I saw it as they awaken to their role as sage just as Zelda and Link awaken to their roles as Wisdom and Courage.
I looked away for a second, then back at 16:58 and was like "silly Zeltik, putting a random cuckoo in the chamber of sages", then I quickly realized it was the perspective of the shot that made Nabooru and Ruto look like one "character" 🤣
I hadn't thought about that when I played the game for the first time. I had just thought that they have just appeared in the Chamber of the Sages, but still alive, just destined to be sages. I did wonder what the word, "Sages" meant. I had been told that "Sage" is a word meaning someone who is wise, which does make sense for what they tell Link after becoming sages. I would not think they were dead considering that Zelda was a sage herself and could still interact in the outside world. I also wouldn't say they are dead considering that in Twilight Princess, one of the sages is killed off by Ganondorf. So if that sage died, he or she couldn't have already been dead, considering that following that scene, the sage who was killed doesn't come back, only the other five do. Of course Twilight Princess is set in the child timeline where Link relived his childhood, so the events of adult Ocarina of Time are erased in Twilight Princess, so it's unclear if the sages in Twilight Princess are the same as in Ocarina of Time, or are other members of their respective races. Like a new generation of sages or even an older generation. Sure there is Rauru who can assume the form of Kaepora Gaebora when going outside the Chamber of the Sages, but at the end when the other five sages appeared on Death Mountain, they still appear the same as they did before.
So do I think the sages are dead? Personally, I would say no. It's hard to argue why I don't think they are dead, but there is the death of one sage in Twilight Princess, which to me indicates that the sages were not already dead.
I've always thought that since this is the child timeline these are the spirits of the unawakened Sages.
I've always thought that since this is the child timeline that these are the spirits of the unawakened sages.
I think it's fairly clear that:
• Saria went to the forest temple to save everyone, inspired by the courage Link had as a child. She died horribly, probably by Phantom Ganon.
• Darunia also died horribly at the hands of the dragon. He fought because of Link's courage, a start to a reoccurring theme.
• Ruto again died because she was trying to help Link knowing he needed guidance, but she also went from prissy to courageous. Again, Link had an affect on her.
Time and time again these people rose up because Link inspired them with his power of COURAGE... As we know the Triforce of Courage was basically given to the hero, thus meaning - he indirectly killed them all or awakened them all by giving them the courage and inspiration to fight back when no one else dared to.
The line saying that the water isn't normal from Princess Ruto, I had always thought it was Navi saying that.
Video games are art y'all, thanks for coming to this wonderful literary analysis and thank YOU Zelink for putting your reading out there! I got stuck and wasn't ever able to finish Ocarina, so this was the first I heard of Naboru's story, and _wow_
that's hardcore
I think it's cool though that there's still so much speculation about this game! it's really a testament to the impact of such elegant storytelling in this game that we had the pleasure of interacting with
As a child I always thought they were dead (I cried for Saria, I was just 8 or 9 and I really liked her). But now, looking at it, I think that the question is wrong. "Are they dead?". I think the question doesn't make sense. They are in the sacred realm, now they are part of it. It's beyond time and maybe space, or so I understand. Being alive or being dead is nonsense. They ARE. That's all that matters.
I think they are in a third state, not alive, not dead. It doesn't matter if they died during the game or if they were saved, because in the end, they become something more. No ghosts. Sages.
I just got to that conclusion thanks to you and I really like it so I am gonna keep it for now :D, great video.
They are alive, and start families. With hylians. Even Saria somehow. At least that is how it happens in the Downfall Timeline. OoT was supposed to be the imprisoning war mentioned in LttP, but the stories didn't add up, so Nintendo decided to make a new timeline.
What if Kotake and Koume's spell didn't hit? What if that light we see take Nobooru is actually some kind of devine force taking her to the Sacred Realm in a dire moment?
That is a possibility. After watching the video again, I noticed that when Nabooru originally gets abducted by Kotake and Koume she gets pulled into a purple portal. This makes sense since Kotake's magic is blue and Koume's magic is red (blue + red = purple).
The second time they go to kidnap her, she disappears in a yellow light. I think either Rauru or her awakening sage powers teleported her to the Sacred Realm just before their magic hit her.
I always found it interesting that the towns in The Adventure of Link have the same names as the sages would later, and was always curious if there was a connection and what it is between them for the games through their timelines.
I don't think they are dead, but I do think their mortal personality takes a backseat to their ascended, immortal sage personality (if that makes sense). When you talk to Saria in the Chamber of Sages, she introduces herself by saying "I am Saria"...which is strange at first, because we have known Saria for years. Why is she introducing herself like we just met her? It seems odd at first, but I think it does make sense when you consider that her mortal soul may now be taken over by the soul of a sage...and so in that sense, she is a new individual and technically is meeting Link for the first time. She has her previous memories still, but it's almost like those things didn't actually happen to her. When peering into her memory, it's like she is looking at characters in a movie, rather than actual experiences from her own past. I do think that as a result of this, there is a certain level of emotional detachment or aloofness that comes along with being a sage. It's definitely a bittersweet calling, because they do have to basically leave behind their previous lives.
After watching this video, it feels like a miss that Link the Goron wasn't sitting sad next to King Zora and Mido. He lost his father and he is the leader of his race, so why wouldn't he be included in that corner?
I always believed that the sages who returned to Death Mountain simply materialized there to go back to Hyrule when they were ready, perhaps having some final duty to perform first.
I've personally thought that the sages of Ocarina can live on as a spirit, but can become a Sage as a living being. The sages are shown to be spiritual beings, with connections to places of worship. What I'm saying is that they can still become sages as spirits, but being a spirit isn't a requirement for being a sage.
@@bastienlafleur5838 That was a mouthful...
Anyways, in my personal opinion the Sages are essentially the head priests of temples to gods of those elements, gaining their power from the gods. So they indirectly gain power over their elements.
Now it is entirely possible that they're getting their powers from separate gods. We see two wind gods in WW, a Sand Goddess in OoT, Hylia in SS, and in my personal opinion the golden goddesses were not the ones to flood Hyrule. Gods in Hyrule seem to have elements and they oppose the Demons as we saw with Hylia. The gods, therefore, give the sages power over their domain and in return the Sages fight against the demons who've historically opposed the gods. I hope that makes sense.
P.S. I don't think that the races are restricted to any type of element, just that it is easier for races to use elements which are similar to their natural environments, like how the Zora tend to have associations with water magic.
@@bastienlafleur5838 You do have rather compelling points, and I now see what you meant by the magic of a certain group.
One thing I definitely agree on (and would push further on) is that the use of magic requires some sort of conduit to be used. Obviously not in the terms of godly beings but for mortals. Excluding the champion abilities (which aren't exactly magic), most magical abilities have been expressed through magical items, and it is very much likely that some magic which we don't know the cause of came from a magical conduit (for example the ocarinas, the master sword, the triforce and the light force).
Another thing is the lesser deities which don't appear to give magical powers are typically not ones we see often. In fact, we see the Deku Tree grant us power through his leaf. It is most likely that their powers are either suppressed or are just not seen long enough to get anything out of.
Lastly, it is likely that each race does have some specific magical powers in their blood. While I don't think the Zora and Gorons are good examples of this, the Sheikah show to have abilities which are restricted to them and them alone, so you might be on to something.
No problem. Thanks for your input.
Theory: All the sages did die. Nabooru was kidnapped and took her own life rather than risk being a minion for Ganondorf again.
With what? She doesn't have a weapon when she's transported, and I don't imagine they're going to teleport her to a cell witha table of things she can use to kill herself or even get out. That just seems like a terrible play on their part.
@@swagmiredoesall hung herself with her scarf
Darunia enters Volvagia's chamber all _fired_ up for battle, when a portal opens behind him and Rauru yanks him into the Chamber of Sages by the shoulders.
_"Mmm-Nope, you're needed here."_
Ah, I was wondering about this a few months ago and was surprised you never did a video on it. Glad to see it here now. I did not know that there was discussion about this for a long time and thought it was something that most people just took for granted. That forum thread is all the way back in 2008, pretty cool.
When it comes to Koume and Kotake "brainwashing [Nabooru] again," I always thought they used her body as a vessel for their Double Dynamite Attack. Link is shown to be shocked to see that form in the cutscene, so I always thought it was because the witches were forcing Nabooru to fight him again. It'd make Nabooru's fate even more tragic and, in regards to her, give the theory some merit since we'd then know exactly how she died before becoming a sage. Perhaps Link anticipated her to awaken as the sage and that's why he wouldn't have hesitated to continue the fight.
That would indeed make Nabooru's death more tragic, but I just remembered that Twinrova uses the double dynamite attack in the Oracle of Ages/Seasons games too. Nabooru isn't in those.
So that means in the child timeline, they're all still alive?
I just think can't help but think about how Saria, a child, went into a temple to help the spirits only to be tragically killed by them. It's so sad but there is just noway she would've survived in there for long
I never thought about it but after seeing this video I really like the idea that they are dead and this is link's way of accepting their death and/or dealing with it, also being encouraged by them helping him as sages but really they are dead, I like to think this way because link is a child, even after skipping 7 years he is still a child in his mind and it's a big thing that he sacrificed his childhood, part of that is accepting death and realizing what it is and what it means, it's not a coincidence all of the sages are links friends/companions in his journey
Fun fact: Saria's song does exist in the game and when played it plays the music from the third night of the carnival and rapidly speeds through time much like the song of double time, however you actually get to see the characters move around you. That's a pretty big connection with death and it's also likely Saria became a skull kid in death as she constantly is in the lost woods and isn't old enough to become a stalfos like the hero shade
Theory time for Majora's mask : I played majora's mask first and then ocarina of time , and I came to the conclusion that the friend link goes searching for is Saria, why is this important? Well without her unlocking her powers as a sage and from how deep into the forest link is , it's possible that Saria got lost in the lost woods she always inhabits thus becoming a skull kid. It's also worth noting that skull kid draws the songs on the wall in termina field near snowhead's entrance.
It's possible that skull kid was originally intended to be Saria , which is why well... (spoilers for true ending 100%)
The drawing on a stump shows what it does. link with the skull kid in friendship , doing .... something? It's hard to tell , it could be them both holding ocarinas ? Ocarina of time does show a drawing on links house in the same style so I always thought the true ending implied link was drawing it with someone else. However in the final game this connection is lost and skull kid is addressed as a 'he' I think? My personal theory is this was a storyline that got thrown out later because majora's mask had such a short development time it might be that the Saria = skull kid was a placeholder in case the team didn't have time to implement Majora fully . Obviously in the final version they got to implement it fully but they didn't remove everything connected to it from the game.
What I took away from this is that answering the question "are the sages dead" doesn't actually make a difference
Whether or not they lost their lives in order to ascend to sagehood, their sacrifice and losses are functionally the same, and that seems to not be open to interpretation so much as what the story is telling.
So the debate over whether or not they died is effectively pointless
I was always under the impression that the sages were all dead before the time Link “awakened” them… some died in between meeting Link in the temple, and Link defeating the dungeon boss/evil entity occupying the temple, some died before Link awakened in the future.
A turtle approves of this theory
Yes
The seagulls stand with you.
A raptor travels through Time to support you.
A fellow water creature comes to help you.
Look at that distinguished gentleman.
I think it's entirely probably that some of the sages may have died, but not all of them did. It wasn't necessary for them to have died, but that doesn't mean some of them didn't. Like Darunia could (and very likely) have died, but others not.
So glad I found your channel!!! I didn't realize I had to many questions about the Franchise until I actually thought of it. Cheers from Canada!!!