Same track same day would have been better. Still, Honda really made this Si more like an EX+ than a performance hatch. The gap between it and the R is vast.
ivebeen I agree but it's not even in the same time zone. Would 230 hp be that bad? I get it though...kinda. I would have preferred a detuned R motor than a tuned CR-V motor
Its a design cost issue if it was a detuned R motor they wouldn't be able to affordably sell it for 24k with everything else it has. they also want a huge gap between them performance wise so people will be drawn to the R aswell.
The Stability system must be cooking the Si. Even without the electronic nannies the Civic would still be over a full second behind the GTi. If you only have 25k to spend and need a 4 door compact performance car. The BASE GTI or a nicely equipped Fiesta St is the way to go. Even with the new 1.5 turbo I believe the Si will be a less expensive to maintain more reliable partner. Performance vs long term reliability.
Why do so many people gotta bitch about the new Civic?. I'm happy for Honda. They're keeping it simple reliable and affordable and it's not ugly at all.
Simple, its got a lot of tech in it. Reliable, who knows its a new engine and I believe Honda is capable of botching things. Acura's dual clutch transmissions were suppose to be having issues.
Scion TC the real Toyota it has the same performance of a 2000 civic si, and a turbos are not reliable, nor the button start, and don't even get me started with the button brake. it also has massive fake vents. It is riced from the factory. Oh, and they also removed the VTec. so many things wrong with it, the car is a disaster. I used to like Hondas, the old Hondas, they could actually be called reliable. Modern Honda is just garbage. after 2017 Honda is just dead
The 2017 SI is a smash hit. Selling extremely well across the US. Selling at or just below MSRP. Most powerful engine ever in an SI, 30 wheel hp more at peak than the 9th gen SI. I mean for $25k, this car has got more standard features than cars around the same price. People just hating because they hate change. The Nismo Sentra SR is a flop. The SI is a very hot car right now.
Vrruumm you compare the si to what Ford has with the Focus ST or Fiesta ST and the car isn't as impressive anymore. The Fiesta loaded is similar in price and includes recaro seats and navigation, the Focus in st2 form is the same and will blow this car away with it's performance. At the end of the day Honda is falling behind in the sport compact range. BTW I agree about the Nismo sentra
the mk7 is pretty under rated. its a huge improvement over the mk6. the tuning potential for the mk7 is insane and is38 turbos (the stock golf r turbo) bolt right on and turn the gti into a missle. especially with the dsg transmission
What you failed to notice is the SI has an optional Hondata 6psi tune which adds about 25-30 hp. Get a $650 dealer tune upgrade then say your bit buddy.
I grew up a VW enthusiast. I have owned a VW Dasher (same engine as the Rabbit), a Rabbit, and a GTi. All three had the same thing in common: they handled well, were fast, and fun to drive. They also had another thing in common: after 30k they ate (and leaked) oil, they ran hot in Southern California summers, and they always had some sort of mechanical problem. I would only own a VW if I were leasing and changing cars every three years, but since I like to wring at least 200K out of them before moving on, I would take the Honda Civic Si over the GTi any day
Honda has a strange approach.... It's either an insane and expensive $35k+ 306hp Civic type-R or a mildly fun but slow $24k 205hp Civic Si. The Subaru WRX has 268hp for $27k The Focus ST has 252hp for $25k ... I would be seriously tempted to trade-in my 260hp Cobalt SS turbo if the Civic Si had at least 225hp, come on Honda!
don't think that transmission will hold all that power for long. it's still just a civic. it's in no way over engineered to handle much more power over stock. The type R is the answer.
You need to turn the traction fully off on the si, should do another review with the 2020 si. It has a shorter gear ratio so I wonder how it would do compared to the 2017 si
Why was it cloudy and you were wearing jackets when the GTI was tested and it was sunny and you were in short sleeved shirts when the Si was tested? Seems like very different track conditions (big difference in temperature).
I've test driven both of them. Hands down the VW takes the crown. The Civic SI doesn't even feel fast or sporty. Then again, non of the previous generation Civic SIs felt quick either.
The Si, I think, needed to be below compared to the Type R. Porsche does the same thing in their 911 model cars. Regular Golf vs GTI vs R are the same. One level is higher than the other. I compared the Si and the GTI when I was in the market for a car. I chose the GTI Mark V. I've almost 218K miles on my GTI right now and still going. Btw, I also opted for the DSG vs the manual. Can't wait for the next GTI. It has to have over 300hp. The R must have close to 400hp or more. Peace!..
Can't run a comparison test on 2 completely different days. You have to take everything to account, from the temperature to wind or wind gusts. Everything affects a vehicle's performance. This test is bogus.
He wasn't in sport mode, I could tell by the speedometer color 6:24 Usually it would be Red when enabled. More direct steering, suspension and throttle response probably could of helped the civic get a better lap time here.. not a proper match IMO but great driving indeed!
Looks like you should change the suspension on the civic si to prevent that yuge understeer. My friends civic ej8 never understeered in any circumstances, it just had other springs with 30mm lower the car.
It can cost up to 10k more because there are a lot more options available for the GTI compared to the SI. The GTI starts at 27k, that's only 2k more, with more power a limited slip diff and a better interior.
Just got a Honda because of the Honda Sensing, to replace my VW bought-back TDI. Well, have to be honest, the Honda engine is a mile behind that of VW's, so it the chasis. I think the really upgrade here in Si over a regular Civic is the universal availability of 6-sp manual. The only reason Honda made a sale to me is a 17% discount without having to negotiate. Sure, a lackluster performance can be alleviated by a good value.
Wondering if you guys utilized the sport mode on the Honda? The throttle response changes and the dampening suspension tightens (also the steering tightens).
Hmm interesting results considering the Civic SI kills the GTI in autocross as I saw in the 2019 SCCA Nationals results. Probably swapping out the rear sway bar (allowed in stock class rules) fixes a lot of the understeer that the driver was complaining about.
I know its not technically a performance car or anything like that but, could the 2017 Fusion Sport be considered hot? or Are there any planes to test one any time soon?
I think most viewers/ buyers would like to see the automatic transmissions/ hatchback version compared to the GTI. While very few of us go to the track, especially with a new civic SI, track is a great tool to show general control/ performance capabilities. Please keep these video comparisons coming. I would also love to have a side discussion with a maintenance expert.
I would like for you to compare these front drivers to a Focus ST. It seems to be left out of these comparisons. I'm willing to bet it'll fare quite well against the GTI, Si and maybe even the Type R once you get one.
The ST tends to overheat under track conditions. The Type R is 10 grand over this class and has its own problems dealing with cars in the 35k range. Stock to stock the GTI is a FASTER track car then the Focus ST. VW has an all new chassis wile the ST is a few years old.
Even though I'm a gti guy and have a mk7 now some civics can be made pretty quick. My friends 07 Civic and my car we're dead even last night from a couple of runs. I only have an exhaust but he has headers, intake, tune, no cat, intake manifold. They can be fast at the top end. The gti pulls hard but falls off towards the top.
I don't know man, I've owned 3 GTIs and never had any issues other than normal maintenance shit which is more expensive than Honda but not so much more that it's worth mentioning
I am a Honda guy so I would pick the SI but I've driven the VW and its awesome. They both look awesome and drive great but Honda definitely is giving up on the SI so they 100% could have done better which is a shame. and I've read the comments and I find it funny when people's arguments for the VW include things like "It corners better". The majority of these people buying these cars aren't going to be on the track. I know I'm not doing any cornering when I'm in NY traffic lol. Just get what you like and makes you comfortable; theses are just two great choices.
The platform is worlds better then the old vw one and the engine was even redone to an extent and doesn't have any issues. If you read any of the forums there's nothing major that has happened other then the first year that was fixed early on
He's not lucky because the new gti are better then the old ones. Do some research for once other than following what everyone says. I'm not a vw/gti person but i follow every forum that i can for any cars that are "performance" based and they don't have many issues like everyone thinks
I wonder if traction control was actually off and what Paul was feeling was the mechanical limited slip differential. In which case, it'd effect how you drive the car since you can power out of turn harder then normal.
Pretty hard to fault the Si when the GTI is $6000 more. That sure buys a lot of suspension, tuning, brakes, and exhaust parts. I'd love to compare my 2017 Camaro 1SS 6M to the GTI...... I have seen the GTI's do well at HPDE events I've been in. Like others have mentioned, the Focus ST would be interesting to throw in there. Dealers are discounting them $5000, puts a base one at $20k.
Mike StClair the base gti only cost $1000 more than the si they tested and it has the same performance as the gti in this video that had SE TRIM without the performance package. Do $1000 more can buy faster 0-60 faster around the track better interior better car overall. I still think that something went wrong with that si cause the difference in hp it only 5 hp torque it's like 60 but the si weight like 150 pounds less let's way for more comparison videos to come out and see what happens
Gtaoutsider The Si does have a lot more amenities and features, so that means something for folks who want it. I do wish Honda would make a "performance package" SI.
Mike StClair the si it's a great car I'm just a little bias towards the gti since I own one .but like I said something went wrong with that si and i truly believe that
Craig Williams The Si is so superior that it is 2 seconds slower than a non-performance pack equipped GTI? I want to know what your smoking. Must be some powerful stuff.
Craig Williams I’ve owned a 2014 GTi manual trans. Loved it. However with only 18k miles I had the clock spring replaced and some annoying squeaks every time I pulled into a driveway and the car twisted. Went to numerous dealers to find the problem. In the end I just had to live with it. I love GTi’s but at the end of the day I decided to purchase the 2018 civic Si 4 door. Way better resale value and just better build quality. Yes it is slower than the GTi but I don’t have to worry about anything. All in all I agree with you
I have the 2017 hatchback and I'm usually a stick shift person but I'm getting older and get tired of Shifting Gears all the time plus I have a 95 GSR 5-speed fully built Type R b18c so I bought the CVT and I did the hondata reflash when it first came out 6 PSI + boost makes a big ass difference. I can only imagine what the SI would do with the Honda to reflash wide open throttle shifts so that turbo just keeps going
The Si would be similar to what you have now with maybe a bit more power since its the same 1.5t motor. honda really shouldve went with a bigger 2.0t for better tuning potential.
Although the golf's front end looks a bit dull, it still looks a lot better then the civic. And I like the golf's interior and it is faster. I would choose the GTI
I think every car enthusiast already knows the answer... A GTI is 1 step above Civic Si and 1 step below Civic Type R. You can't really compare the 2 cars.
Here in Canada, the prices between the 2018 GTi vs Si are the same. Granted, the GTi can't win against the Type-R, but it'd easily spank that 1.5T engine. Top trim GTi vs Si HFP would be a better comparison on go-cart sized track. Than Si wouldn't be handicapped by such a slow track and handling ability might make up the weak engine. Hope TFL does this comparison again with HFP Civic.
There's something wrong here. The SI is way better than these guys say. My tuned SI is doing about 250hp... Gtis are not that much faster stock. Maybe fractions of a second. Too many variables in this test. Needs to be on same day in same weather conditions.
The Gti is similar weight, and has 20 more hp and over 60 more lb ft of torque. Its definitely that much faster stock. They didn't even use a performance pack GTI with the LSD, that would have been even faster. Stage 1 on a GTI can hit over 300 wheel hp and well of 330 torque, so even tuned you get better performance.
I think releasing the new Civic Type-R has meant that Honda has had to neuter the Civic Si to stop it from eclipsing the Type-R in any way. Where the Golf R and the Focus RS can justify their added costs with both a performance boost and AWD, the Si has the same basic layout as the Type-R and as a result, needs to be kept at a far distance, in terms of capability, from it's high-end sibling. Everything I've seen or read regarding the Si just makes it seem like a watered down version of the car it could have been, had it not been restricted by its own intra-corporate competition. The previous Civic Si models were unique with a high revving naturally aspirated engine but this new model just adopts the same approach as all its immediate competitors and ands up lumping itself right into the middle of the pack rather than standing out on its own.
No surprise here, of the last 3 engines there has only been an 8hp gain, 0 gain from the 2.4L engine. Volkswagen may claim 220hp, but many have done dyno on GTIs and they get that at the wheels, so power advantage to the GTI, plus way better looking interior and exterior. Hatch also makes it more practical even over the Si sedan, so winner GTI. Also all that chassis tuning is helpless becomes limited if you can't turn off the traction control.
The Civic is much faster when stability/traction control is fully disabled, I cut 2 seconds off at an autocross yesterday just from fully disabling it on the 2017 Si that I was driving. This was on a 65 second course.
To fully disable it. do this 1. Turn car on 2. Parking brake off 3. Press and hold brake pedal 4. Turn traction control on and off 5. Release brake pedal 6. Parking brake on 7. Turn traction control on and off 8. Press and hold brake pedal 9. Turn traction control on and off 10. Traction control light should be solid and another light blinking
Given the significant power the GTI has over the SI... and it being a nicer car overall... it's not surprising it beat the SI, but it beat it only barely. For about $10k less (as was tested) and about 40% better fuel economy you can have within about 2 seconds as much fun in the SI vs the GTI.
I hope they changed the exhaust of the si ... I don't know .. I think this one doesn't give the right sound.. Just my opinion I think they should keep the v-Tec and the 2.4 L. Find, the turbo in the new civic give more torque, but this sacrifice cost that sound of the si we all recognize and love. I like the car, but if you ask me will you get the old si (2013) or the new si.. I'll get the old one. Like I said Only my opinion and I respect everyone who bought the new si
Gtaoutsider Because the GTI is significantly better in every way. Civic is going to be out gunned in everyway. GTI cost significantly more ans it shows.
Francisco Muniz the difference in price between a base SI and GTI is like $1500. The GTI they tested is the ES trim but it has the same performance as the base GTI S. I'm sure more comparison videos will come out soon and the SI is going to do better I think something went wrong with that SI. The difference is too much. The Gti has 5 more hp 60 something more torque but the SI 150 pounds lighter lets way for more videos 👍
The 1.5 isn’t pushed hard at all in stock form. A tune on the Si can pick +68hp and 80+ lb/ft of torque. It’s not as much as the gti but it last impressive for a 1.5
Because reviewers are bad at doing launches. A bad launch with an si should still have around a 7.2 second 0-60 while an ideal one should be around 6.2 seconds. I have no clue how these guys managed an 8 second launch.
Flabernat has it right. The type R is an animal but the si is , well, just kinda sporty. Needs more HP to even be in this league. Don't mind the looks tho as a bunch pick it apart. Depends what you want in a car like this...... Drive the fuc...... already....
I'm surprised there was such a gap between the civic and the gti. I wonder if honda can do anything about the understeer. To be fair the gti in sport trim with the differential is $28,815 which is a good amount more than this civic. I am not sure what trim gti they used but it was probably a higher trim than the sport.
You mean understeer I assume and not oversteer. Honda's tend to be dialed in very heavily with understeer to prevent the rear sliding out with inexperienced drivers. A good rear sway bar would solve the issue. My accord V6 is essentially undriveable without the progress bar.
Jay G the gti they used didn't have the performance package. With the performance package the difference will have been even more . Let's see what the others video comparing this two tell . They should also add the Hyundai Elantra sport should be interesting 👍
Gtaoutsider the car is stated as tested at over 30,000 and it has leather seats. so it is not a base S or sport trim which have plaid cloth seats. its a higher trim and it does have the differential. I would also like to see both compared to the elantra sport.
Jay G I own a 2015 GTI S DSG WITH PERFORMANCE PACKAGE And I HAVE THE BIGGER BRAKES AND THE DIFFERENTIAL. That one was an SE WITHOUT the performance package to identify the gti with performance package the GTI letters are red and not chrome and the front brakes says gti trust me that gti didn't have a differential
Jay G also in 2015 2016 there was not sport trim there was the s and se you could have the s and se with performance Package and the light package as options. I'm also surprised at the different I think something went wrong there I thought they were going to be more evenly match cause there is only a 5 hp different the gti have like 65 lb ft more but the si weights like 150 less . Definitely something went wrong with that civic
Interesting to see the GTI is was faster than a mustang GT. I tell people all the time my GTI is faster than my Mustang was on a track not in a straight line and they don't believe me.
man that si shoulda had a better engine that 1.5 is just so much cost cutting and whats the point of dynamic shocks and lsd if it makes so little power and tourqe that si shoulda had the detuned type R engine then all those mechanical add ons would have made it a beast
Even though the Civic is slower, I feel like it might be funner. I drove the GTI and it feels too much like the 2010 one, and there's not that much feedback with the road.
I have a 2016 GTI without the Performance Pack and it handles great. I believe the GTI gets a lot of hate when it comes to steering just because the stock all season Bridgeston tires are really bad.
Not basing it off a second lap means that the gti would start with a 1 second advantage……. As far as handling goes to just it’s true lap time you can’t do it from a dig. Normally testers do 3 laps and get an average
Sergio Aguirre I still find the whole Nurburgring lap times sketchy. Honda set their lap record and the the GTI club sport got released and bet the type R by 2 full seconds. The type R comes back a month later and puts down a 6.5 second faster lap time than the clubsport. So you're telling me that the exact same car comes back a month later and somehow puts down a 8.5 second faster time? Nah it was a loaded car no doubt about it.
Sergio Aguirre yeah....but it's the "production" car record. Key word here being production. No way a professional driver can run laps around a track set an unprecedented time and then come back and better it by 8.5 seconds. When I say loaded car I mean Tuned. No way it was running production ECU settings. I get the fact that your a Honda fanboy and all considering you have commented on every single post on this video lol. But I'm sorry man. Honda took offense to the Clubsport lap time and came back and took 8.5 seconds off their own lap times? Just not possible man.
Sergio Aguirre I know I know. Doesn't matter at the end of the day. Competition is good for everybody they compete and we receive better products in the end. I don't remember many people questioning the Gtr's lap times though there was no denying it really. There was to much proof the cars numbers made sense when you looked at 0-60 0-100 100-0 60-0 it was obviously faster than everything it was beating. When you look at the clubsport vs type r numbers the clubsport is obviously faster by a lot. But somehow it wasn't at the Nurburgring.
Same track same day would have been better. Still, Honda really made this Si more like an EX+ than a performance hatch. The gap between it and the R is vast.
ivebeen I agree but it's not even in the same time zone. Would 230 hp be that bad?
I get it though...kinda. I would have preferred a detuned R motor than a tuned CR-V motor
Its a design cost issue if it was a detuned R motor they wouldn't be able to affordably sell it for 24k with everything else it has. they also want a huge gap between them performance wise so people will be drawn to the R aswell.
Hell Hell Good point!
The si is no where near the ex different engine internals gear ratio lsd etc.
@@Sold_a_dummy I was going to say the same thing. I might as well get the accord then for all that. The Si still looks like a fun car to drive though.
The Stability system must be cooking the Si. Even without the electronic nannies the Civic would still be over a full second behind the GTi. If you only have 25k to spend and need a 4 door compact performance car. The BASE GTI or a nicely equipped Fiesta St is the way to go. Even with the new 1.5 turbo I believe the Si will be a less expensive to maintain more reliable partner. Performance vs long term reliability.
Yeah, I was frankly surprised. I thought the Si would get spanked on power but put in a good showing on handling.
Good point Tom. With the performance pack with the limited slip and 10 more hp you can.
He didn't disengage Traction control on the GTI FOR 0-60.
Why do so many people gotta bitch about the new Civic?. I'm happy for Honda. They're keeping it simple reliable and affordable and it's not ugly at all.
the new civic is good, its just the new Si is flop compared to others in its class.
Simple, its got a lot of tech in it. Reliable, who knows its a new engine and I believe Honda is capable of botching things. Acura's dual clutch transmissions were suppose to be having issues.
Scion TC the real Toyota it has the same performance of a 2000 civic si, and a turbos are not reliable, nor the button start, and don't even get me started with the button brake.
it also has massive fake vents. It is riced from the factory. Oh, and they also removed the VTec. so many things wrong with it, the car is a disaster.
I used to like Hondas, the old Hondas, they could actually be called reliable. Modern Honda is just garbage. after 2017 Honda is just dead
The 2017 SI is a smash hit. Selling extremely well across the US. Selling at or just below MSRP. Most powerful engine ever in an SI, 30 wheel hp more at peak than the 9th gen SI. I mean for $25k, this car has got more standard features than cars around the same price. People just hating because they hate change. The Nismo Sentra SR is a flop. The SI is a very hot car right now.
Vrruumm you compare the si to what Ford has with the Focus ST or Fiesta ST and the car isn't as impressive anymore. The Fiesta loaded is similar in price and includes recaro seats and navigation, the Focus in st2 form is the same and will blow this car away with it's performance. At the end of the day Honda is falling behind in the sport compact range. BTW I agree about the Nismo sentra
the mk7 is pretty under rated. its a huge improvement over the mk6. the tuning potential for the mk7 is insane and is38 turbos (the stock golf r turbo) bolt right on and turn the gti into a missle. especially with the dsg transmission
What you failed to notice is the SI has an optional Hondata 6psi tune which adds about 25-30 hp. Get a $650 dealer tune upgrade then say your bit buddy.
Harv Castrejon wtf what dealership 😂
same could be said of the gti. some dealerships have tuning for them.
Thank you guys. Paul, it's great to see you back at it again. I'll be sure to pick up your book.
I grew up a VW enthusiast. I have owned a VW Dasher (same engine as the Rabbit), a Rabbit, and a GTi. All three had the same thing in common: they handled well, were fast, and fun to drive. They also had another thing in common: after 30k they ate (and leaked) oil, they ran hot in Southern California summers, and they always had some sort of mechanical problem. I would only own a VW if I were leasing and changing cars every three years, but since I like to wring at least 200K out of them before moving on, I would take the Honda Civic Si over the GTi any day
Another new guy! TFL is growing 🙂
Stefan Braem he's the test driver...he has been with TFL since some time.
That intro was hilarious! I wish they brought that wide body to the SRT and/or RT Scat Pack as an option.
Honda has a strange approach.... It's either an insane and expensive $35k+ 306hp Civic type-R or a mildly fun but slow $24k 205hp Civic Si.
The Subaru WRX has 268hp for $27k
The Focus ST has 252hp for $25k
... I would be seriously tempted to trade-in my 260hp Cobalt SS turbo if the Civic Si had at least 225hp, come on Honda!
Flabernat Correction. The Subaru WRX actually has 268Hp
Whoops! Typo, thanks for catching that.
Flabernat also don't forget. At 35k STI
Very true, I'd probably pick an STI over a Civic typeR
don't think that transmission will hold all that power for long. it's still just a civic. it's in no way over engineered to handle much more power over stock. The type R is the answer.
What were the options on the GTi..is it a base model or did it have a package with Limited slip?
It didn't have the LSD, you can tell by the badge on the grille. The GTI with the performance pack has red front badge instead of chrome.
You need to turn the traction fully off on the si, should do another review with the 2020 si. It has a shorter gear ratio so I wonder how it would do compared to the 2017 si
Why was it cloudy and you were wearing jackets when the GTI was tested and it was sunny and you were in short sleeved shirts when the Si was tested? Seems like very different track conditions (big difference in temperature).
I've test driven both of them. Hands down the VW takes the crown. The Civic SI doesn't even feel fast or sporty. Then again, non of the previous generation Civic SIs felt quick either.
I think both cars look amazing in their own ways. This is a great comparison for what seems to be a nice tight and fun track. thanks for the upload :D
Personally I prefer the GTI but I'm disappointed that Honda has dropped the ball so much with the Si...
The Si, I think, needed to be below compared to the Type R. Porsche does the same thing in their 911 model cars.
Regular Golf vs GTI vs R are the same. One level is higher than the other.
I compared the Si and the GTI when I was in the market for a car. I chose the GTI Mark V.
I've almost 218K miles on my GTI right now and still going.
Btw, I also opted for the DSG vs the manual.
Can't wait for the next GTI. It has to have over 300hp.
The R must have close to 400hp or more.
Peace!..
The Si is actually pretty good. Far outperforms the GTI at autocross. I'm surprised it posted a slower lap time here.
Can't run a comparison test on 2 completely different days. You have to take everything to account, from the temperature to wind or wind gusts. Everything affects a vehicle's performance. This test is bogus.
@@tonioherrera5925 lol
He wasn't in sport mode, I could tell by the speedometer color 6:24 Usually it would be Red when enabled. More direct steering, suspension and throttle response probably could of helped the civic get a better lap time here.. not a proper match IMO but great driving indeed!
Eh who cares we all know the GTI is much faster anyways, it destroys it in the quarter mile and still would've beaten by a lot on the track.
1:45 the speedo literally goes from 43 to 37 wtf Honda. I hate the laggy ass digital speedos they put in these cars its embarassing.
probably spinning tires and when hooked up in second gear it showed the actual speed of the car...
Dodge has the same thing. Not just honda
its the tires spinning its accurate af
Looks like you should change the suspension on the civic si to prevent that yuge understeer.
My friends civic ej8 never understeered in any circumstances, it just had other springs with 30mm lower the car.
Yeah until the GTI breaks it’s better and believe me it will break as someone who just sold their Golf R unless you keep it stock
That 1.5t in the Honda has it's fair share of problems.
Howie Carson yes and it cost 10k more too
It can cost up to 10k more because there are a lot more options available for the GTI compared to the SI. The GTI starts at 27k, that's only 2k more, with more power a limited slip diff and a better interior.
@@turdzilla1675 The GTI has a Electronic Limited Slip Diff where the Si has a Mechanical One.
Just got a Honda because of the Honda Sensing, to replace my VW bought-back TDI. Well, have to be honest, the Honda engine is a mile behind that of VW's, so it the chasis. I think the really upgrade here in Si over a regular Civic is the universal availability of 6-sp manual. The only reason Honda made a sale to me is a 17% discount without having to negotiate. Sure, a lackluster performance can be alleviated by a good value.
Wondering if you guys utilized the sport mode on the Honda? The throttle response changes and the dampening suspension tightens (also the steering tightens).
Hmm interesting results considering the Civic SI kills the GTI in autocross as I saw in the 2019 SCCA Nationals results. Probably swapping out the rear sway bar (allowed in stock class rules) fixes a lot of the understeer that the driver was complaining about.
I know its not technically a performance car or anything like that but, could the 2017 Fusion Sport be considered hot? or Are there any planes to test one any time soon?
I think most viewers/ buyers would like to see the automatic transmissions/ hatchback version compared to the GTI. While very few of us go to the track, especially with a new civic SI, track is a great tool to show general control/ performance capabilities. Please keep these video comparisons coming. I would also love to have a side discussion with a maintenance expert.
I would like for you to compare these front drivers to a Focus ST. It seems to be left out of these comparisons. I'm willing to bet it'll fare quite well against the GTI, Si and maybe even the Type R once you get one.
The ST tends to overheat under track conditions. The Type R is 10 grand over this class and has its own problems dealing with cars in the 35k range. Stock to stock the GTI is a FASTER track car then the Focus ST. VW has an all new chassis wile the ST is a few years old.
Both are reaaaaally good cars but man the GTI is beautiful
Gonzalo Parisi Word
Give me Honda reliability all day long
:))
ya dude gti for the win
Outdoor Layne both of these cars are rolling shoes. I don't think that's a bad thing
Honda should bring the k series back
Ernesto
You can get the k24 in the non turbo civic
The Great One really ? That's dope I didn't know that thanks man 🖒
no you can't. its a k20 not a k24. 158hp
Faust 621 just what I was about to say haha
The Type-R still uses the K20
Love the way you shoot the car going around corners. Plus I'm totally buying the book.
Just bought my 18 Si from the Honda dealer. Super nice compared to my old 01 ex civic. And then on the same weekend my coworker bought the new gti
Wess Reiley did ya race?
Have owned a Civic and VW. GTI is a better car with more refinement, but I would take either. Can't go wrong with these!
Paul is a great co-host / reviewer. Seems to know his stuff around the track much more than the rest.
Even though I'm a gti guy and have a mk7 now some civics can be made pretty quick. My friends 07 Civic and my car we're dead even last night from a couple of runs. I only have an exhaust but he has headers, intake, tune, no cat, intake manifold. They can be fast at the top end. The gti pulls hard but falls off towards the top.
Price, maintenance costs, MPG, for a fun commuter car, I would say the Honda is a better “value”.
I don't know man, I've owned 3 GTIs and never had any issues other than normal maintenance shit which is more expensive than Honda but not so much more that it's worth mentioning
I am a Honda guy so I would pick the SI but I've driven the VW and its awesome. They both look awesome and drive great but Honda definitely is giving up on the SI so they 100% could have done better which is a shame. and I've read the comments and I find it funny when people's arguments for the VW include things like "It corners better". The majority of these people buying these cars aren't going to be on the track. I know I'm not doing any cornering when I'm in NY traffic lol. Just get what you like and makes you comfortable; theses are just two great choices.
I trust that 1.5 turbo more than I trust anything on the gti I've seen hondas fall apart but nothing compares to vw repair receipts
John Hecke Can testify this as I own a 2011 GTI and we'll I guess you can say I share ownership with the mechanic shop.
Zyrexed
the best way to fix all your vw mechanical issues is to sell them, we did this with our passat & toureg .
The platform is worlds better then the old vw one and the engine was even redone to an extent and doesn't have any issues. If you read any of the forums there's nothing major that has happened other then the first year that was fixed early on
Bryan M so you got lucky kid. Doesn't mean the majority who share the same story that vw are crap cars that break down more than they drive.
He's not lucky because the new gti are better then the old ones. Do some research for once other than following what everyone says. I'm not a vw/gti person but i follow every forum that i can for any cars that are "performance" based and they don't have many issues like everyone thinks
I wonder if traction control was actually off and what Paul was feeling was the mechanical limited slip differential. In which case, it'd effect how you drive the car since you can power out of turn harder then normal.
Pretty hard to fault the Si when the GTI is $6000 more. That sure buys a lot of suspension, tuning, brakes, and exhaust parts. I'd love to compare my 2017 Camaro 1SS 6M to the GTI...... I have seen the GTI's do well at HPDE events I've been in. Like others have mentioned, the Focus ST would be interesting to throw in there. Dealers are discounting them $5000, puts a base one at $20k.
Mike StClair the base gti only cost $1000 more than the si they tested and it has the same performance as the gti in this video that had SE TRIM without the performance package. Do $1000 more can buy faster 0-60 faster around the track better interior better car overall. I still think that something went wrong with that si cause the difference in hp it only 5 hp torque it's like 60 but the si weight like 150 pounds less let's way for more comparison videos to come out and see what happens
Gtaoutsider The Si does have a lot more amenities and features, so that means something for folks who want it. I do wish Honda would make a "performance package" SI.
Mike StClair the si it's a great car I'm just a little bias towards the gti since I own one .but like I said something went wrong with that si and i truly believe that
I would like to see time difference of Traction Control. Can you compare both lap times with having TC ON and OFF.
I've driven both of these cars. I OWN the Si. Dynamically it's FAR superior to the GTI.
Craig Williams The Si is so superior that it is 2 seconds slower than a non-performance pack equipped GTI?
I want to know what your smoking. Must be some powerful stuff.
Craig Williams your bias opinion buddy 😂😂😂😂
And that's called denial 😂
Craig Williams I’ve owned a 2014 GTi manual trans. Loved it. However with only 18k miles I had the clock spring replaced and some annoying squeaks every time I pulled into a driveway and the car twisted. Went to numerous dealers to find the problem. In the end I just had to live with it. I love GTi’s but at the end of the day I decided to purchase the 2018 civic Si 4 door. Way better resale value and just better build quality. Yes it is slower than the GTi but I don’t have to worry about anything. All in all I agree with you
False
you guys should do a comparison between the civic si and the Kia forte koup sx seems to me that would be a better battle.
Why not a ST?
I have the 2017 hatchback and I'm usually a stick shift person but I'm getting older and get tired of Shifting Gears all the time plus I have a 95 GSR 5-speed fully built Type R b18c so I bought the CVT and I did the hondata reflash when it first came out 6 PSI + boost makes a big ass difference. I can only imagine what the SI would do with the Honda to reflash wide open throttle shifts so that turbo just keeps going
The Si would be similar to what you have now with maybe a bit more power since its the same 1.5t motor. honda really shouldve went with a bigger 2.0t for better tuning potential.
Although the golf's front end looks a bit dull, it still looks a lot better then the civic. And I like the golf's interior and it is faster. I would choose the GTI
Michael S Golf.Tango.India for life, bruh
you say it looks dull I'd say it looks tasteful. not everybody wants 6 grilles, 4 nostrils on the hood, a wing and huge exhaust.
I think every car enthusiast already knows the answer... A GTI is 1 step above Civic Si and 1 step below Civic Type R. You can't really compare the 2 cars.
A whole lot more than 1 step below the Type R.
Here in Canada, the prices between the 2018 GTi vs Si are the same. Granted, the GTi can't win against the Type-R, but it'd easily spank that 1.5T engine. Top trim GTi vs Si HFP would be a better comparison on go-cart sized track. Than Si wouldn't be handicapped by such a slow track and handling ability might make up the weak engine. Hope TFL does this comparison again with HFP Civic.
Do you plan to test the Elantra Sport on the track to compare with these 2 cars?
mazdaspl ikr, that's what I wanna see
Great comparison. And is Mazda ever bringing a new Mazdaspeed3?
There's something wrong here. The SI is way better than these guys say. My tuned SI is doing about 250hp... Gtis are not that much faster stock. Maybe fractions of a second. Too many variables in this test. Needs to be on same day in same weather conditions.
The Gti is similar weight, and has 20 more hp and over 60 more lb ft of torque. Its definitely that much faster stock. They didn't even use a performance pack GTI with the LSD, that would have been even faster. Stage 1 on a GTI can hit over 300 wheel hp and well of 330 torque, so even tuned you get better performance.
Correction civic si stock psi peak at 18 psi which you will rarely see .. mostly 17 psi at full throttle 3 gear or higher ..
The GTI sounded so much stronger than the SI doing the 0-60 run, the times were even less competitive than I thought they would be.
I think releasing the new Civic Type-R has meant that Honda has had to neuter the Civic Si to stop it from eclipsing the Type-R in any way. Where the Golf R and the Focus RS can justify their added costs with both a performance boost and AWD, the Si has the same basic layout as the Type-R and as a result, needs to be kept at a far distance, in terms of capability, from it's high-end sibling. Everything I've seen or read regarding the Si just makes it seem like a watered down version of the car it could have been, had it not been restricted by its own intra-corporate competition. The previous Civic Si models were unique with a high revving naturally aspirated engine but this new model just adopts the same approach as all its immediate competitors and ands up lumping itself right into the middle of the pack rather than standing out on its own.
love this channel keep it up guys I look forward to every vid
All show and no go... That green is well worn by the Focus RS it was the first to make that colour cool.
GTI baby!!! 🏁🇧🇪💪
What would be the best match up for a Dodge charger?
No surprise here, of the last 3 engines there has only been an 8hp gain, 0 gain from the 2.4L engine. Volkswagen may claim 220hp, but many have done dyno on GTIs and they get that at the wheels, so power advantage to the GTI, plus way better looking interior and exterior. Hatch also makes it more practical even over the Si sedan, so winner GTI. Also all that chassis tuning is helpless becomes limited if you can't turn off the traction control.
"It understeers everywhere" then, 2 seconds later, "It felt really grippy on track"
Where those lap times from a stop or from a hot lap? So first lap lap time or real lap time?
What's the SI even in sport mode it was hard to tell for the dash.
I'm not a fan of the green but the Si is a hot car for sure.
The Civic is much faster when stability/traction control is fully disabled, I cut 2 seconds off at an autocross yesterday just from fully disabling it on the 2017 Si that I was driving. This was on a 65 second course.
To fully disable it. do this
1. Turn car on
2. Parking brake off
3. Press and hold brake pedal
4. Turn traction control on and off
5. Release brake pedal
6. Parking brake on
7. Turn traction control on and off
8. Press and hold brake pedal
9. Turn traction control on and off
10. Traction control light should be solid and another light blinking
Good Idea: Put the Hot or not with a pepper scale.
Given the significant power the GTI has over the SI... and it being a nicer car overall... it's not surprising it beat the SI, but it beat it only barely. For about $10k less (as was tested) and about 40% better fuel economy you can have within about 2 seconds as much fun in the SI vs the GTI.
I’ll take a Honda over a vw or a Acura over an Audi any day.
I hope they changed the exhaust of the si ... I don't know .. I think this one doesn't give the right sound.. Just my opinion
I think they should keep the v-Tec and the 2.4 L. Find, the turbo in the new civic give more torque, but this sacrifice cost that sound of the si we all recognize and love. I like the car, but if you ask me will you get the old si (2013) or the new si.. I'll get the old one.
Like I said
Only my opinion and I respect everyone who bought the new si
It likes to spin the tires so you have to be carful by turing on traction control
How fast is the Type R around that same track, I wonder??
I would have preferred to see this compared to the Fiesta St and Volester turbo. The GTI was not a fair fight.
Francisco Muniz why not ?
Gtaoutsider Because the GTI is significantly better in every way. Civic is going to be out gunned in everyway. GTI cost significantly more ans it shows.
Francisco Muniz the difference in price between a base SI and GTI is like $1500. The GTI they tested is the ES trim but it has the same performance as the base GTI S. I'm sure more comparison videos will come out soon and the SI is going to do better I think something went wrong with that SI. The difference is too much. The Gti has 5 more hp 60 something more torque but the SI 150 pounds lighter lets way for more videos 👍
Vw left alot more on the table for aftermarket tuning though. That 1.5 is pushed harder in stock form.
The 1.5 isn’t pushed hard at all in stock form. A tune on the Si can pick +68hp and 80+ lb/ft of torque. It’s not as much as the gti but it last impressive for a 1.5
Why are 0-60 tests always way slower than what manufacturers say
Because reviewers are bad at doing launches. A bad launch with an si should still have around a 7.2 second 0-60 while an ideal one should be around 6.2 seconds. I have no clue how these guys managed an 8 second launch.
Elevation and real world dynamics
Flabernat has it right. The type R is an animal but the si is , well, just kinda sporty. Needs more HP to even be in this league. Don't mind the looks tho as a bunch pick it apart. Depends what you want in a car like this...... Drive the fuc...... already....
Funny channel. Nearly 600k subs and we've got them timing fast laps with an iPhone.
good job
I'd take the Honda just for reliability over the GTI if it was my only vehicle. If I had a daily and the car could be in the shop, I'd get a subaru.
The weather looks colder when you tested the GTI = more power
=less grip.... genius
GTI is ugly. Even if the SI was a lot slower I would still take the Civic
My 16 Veloster Turbo just beat a VW GTI about a week ago.... waiting for the hate to come rolling in lol
I'm surprised there was such a gap between the civic and the gti. I wonder if honda can do anything about the understeer. To be fair the gti in sport trim with the differential is $28,815 which is a good amount more than this civic. I am not sure what trim gti they used but it was probably a higher trim than the sport.
You mean understeer I assume and not oversteer. Honda's tend to be dialed in very heavily with understeer to prevent the rear sliding out with inexperienced drivers. A good rear sway bar would solve the issue. My accord V6 is essentially undriveable without the progress bar.
Jay G the gti they used didn't have the performance package. With the performance package the difference will have been even more . Let's see what the others video comparing this two tell . They should also add the Hyundai Elantra sport should be interesting 👍
Gtaoutsider the car is stated as tested at over 30,000 and it has leather seats. so it is not a base S or sport trim which have plaid cloth seats. its a higher trim and it does have the differential. I would also like to see both compared to the elantra sport.
Jay G I own a 2015 GTI S DSG WITH PERFORMANCE PACKAGE And I HAVE THE BIGGER BRAKES AND THE DIFFERENTIAL. That one was an SE WITHOUT the performance package to identify the gti with performance package the GTI letters are red and not chrome and the front brakes says gti trust me that gti didn't have a differential
Jay G also in 2015 2016 there was not sport trim there was the s and se you could have the s and se with performance Package and the light package as options. I'm also surprised at the different I think something went wrong there I thought they were going to be more evenly match cause there is only a 5 hp different the gti have like 65 lb ft more but the si weights like 150 less . Definitely something went wrong with that civic
you should run a 2.0t genesis coupe base on your track i would be interested
Interesting to see the GTI is was faster than a mustang GT. I tell people all the time my GTI is faster than my Mustang was on a track not in a straight line and they don't believe me.
I wish that he knew how to turn traction control off because it would have been a better race.
how about the 0-60 from the Si ?????
Yeah it was slow
man that si shoulda had a better engine that 1.5 is just so much cost cutting and whats the point of dynamic shocks and lsd if it makes so little power and tourqe that si shoulda had the detuned type R engine then all those mechanical add ons would have made it a beast
Should have gotten a Chevy Bolt as well, it is very quick also.
Who gafs which is faster, which is more fun?
The GTI
Even though the Civic is slower, I feel like it might be funner. I drove the GTI and it feels too much like the 2010 one, and there's not that much feedback with the road.
I have a 2016 GTI without the Performance Pack and it handles great. I believe the GTI gets a lot of hate when it comes to steering just because the stock all season Bridgeston tires are really bad.
If you had understeer then you have some driver issues. My si has no understeer issues.
didn't think a turbo charged engine would be so affected by elevation
Honda Civic Si or Fiesta ST?
FiST
Civic would look clean in black or red.
Not basing it off a second lap means that the gti would start with a 1 second advantage……. As far as handling goes to just it’s true lap time you can’t do it from a dig. Normally testers do 3 laps and get an average
not only do you sound like The Terminator, you look like him too in those sunglasses.
8 seconds? Wtf! Honda slow baller unleashed.
The Honda Civic Si "Very safely tuned"......... Sounds exciting.
1st to 3rd nets you a sub 6 second 0-60 in the Si. 2nd gear only goes to 57mph so I just skip it all together.
TFL compare this to the Ford Focus RS
More confirmation that I am going to most likely get a Ford Fiesta ST.. just missed getting one with 23K miles on it for $16,500.
Funny how motoring journalists and even race drivers don't know the real reason why these budget 'sports' cars under-steer.
Like to see what the fiesta ST would do.
Volkswagen hired a Porsche GT3 engineer to design the GTI’s chassis enough said. Granted i did buy my Mk7 GTI new in 2015 so im a bit biased.
Sergio Aguirre I still find the whole Nurburgring lap times sketchy. Honda set their lap record and the the GTI club sport got released and bet the type R by 2 full seconds. The type R comes back a month later and puts down a 6.5 second faster lap time than the clubsport. So you're telling me that the exact same car comes back a month later and somehow puts down a 8.5 second faster time? Nah it was a loaded car no doubt about it.
Sergio Aguirre yeah....but it's the "production" car record. Key word here being production. No way a professional driver can run laps around a track set an unprecedented time and then come back and better it by 8.5 seconds. When I say loaded car I mean Tuned. No way it was running production ECU settings. I get the fact that your a Honda fanboy and all considering you have commented on every single post on this video lol. But I'm sorry man. Honda took offense to the Clubsport lap time and came back and took 8.5 seconds off their own lap times? Just not possible man.
Sergio Aguirre and I still think the type R is a great car with lots of potential. The new SI on the other hand....not so much.
Sergio Aguirre I know I know. Doesn't matter at the end of the day. Competition is good for everybody they compete and we receive better products in the end. I don't remember many people questioning the Gtr's lap times though there was no denying it really. There was to much proof the cars numbers made sense when you looked at 0-60 0-100 100-0 60-0 it was obviously faster than everything it was beating. When you look at the clubsport vs type r numbers the clubsport is obviously faster by a lot. But somehow it wasn't at the Nurburgring.
Sergio Aguirre and I don't even know why I care honestly. I don't drive a VW or a Honda lol