High Performance Point Ignition Systems - Tuning, Modifying And Understanding The Different Types
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2022
- The technology may be over a hundred years old, but set up and maintained correctly, a point ignition system will rival the most sophisticated modern systems in both performance and reliability while offering dead simple troubleshooting and roadside repair.
Here we look at the factory single point, street and strip dual point and full race roller bearing Pro Stock distributors.
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My family moved into duplex when I was 9. The owner had a Chevy Station wagon with a 454 in the thing. He was in the backyard tuning it, and I was fascinated by the process. So he should me how to swap and gap points, set the timing, dwell, gap the plugs, etc - all the things one needed to do for a periodic tune-up. He then just let me do it whenever he needed a tune up. I was 9. NINE. If I could do it at 9, ANYBODY can.
Awesome story!
Yes! A whole lot of grateful thanks to people like that who teach and share knowledge.
My dad had a ‘57 Chrysler he put aside for a newer car, told me to see if I could get it running. Somewhere around 11 years old I’d bug my neighbours who worked on their own cars for information and sometimes having to stand in the engine bay to reach things did get that lovely old 4 barrel Chrysler fired up. Near sixty years later I still think of them and the kindness.
It’s a reason why I love to listen to Tony here.
Nothing's more fun than a moderately healthy big block in a land barge. ;)
Great story.. yes anyone can with the proper guidance.. I don’t know how to yet but I’m trying to teach myself how.. I have a 1980 elcamino my father left for me to rebuild in his honor..
@@xavierschneider6274Good luck 🤞👍 I hope you enjoy the journey.😊
About 20 years ago, our instructor for 3rd year automotive apprenticeship, was explaining "why" points were obsolete and how they would break down at high rpm due to dwell time and points float.... so we tested it. I took my stock mopar distributor, brand new mopar performance distributor, and my original points distributor for small block dodges to class to test on a distributor and secondary ignition test bench.... the instructor wasn't happy at the end of it because the points distributor which I hadn't serviced aside from gapping they points... it had perfect dwell when spun up to 7000 rpm on the machine. The rest of the class got real interested and the instructor just didn't know what to say. It was great 👍🏼😎. Thanks for the awesome videos Tony.
Love that quote... If it's too much to deal with, YOU are in the wrong hobby!
And hopefully you like being like the planet fitness guy who picks stuff up and puts stuff down,but instead disassemble stuff up and assemble stuff down.
Or something.
but I got 19 cars - nobody got time for that
I’m a young 21 year old Mexican tryna get out the wicked Hood by 25 😂i smoke weed on my TH-cam channel and i also did a burger king Mukbang inside target 🦈
Oh man... if working on vehicles is too much for me, I am so screwed. Another Silverado with a 5.3 in it followed me home Saturday... I don't want to count the trucks sitting here taking up space that could be full of GTOs. Two credits on my HPTuners and it runs great. They couldn't get it to start, so I got it for $250.
The main reason I don't use points in my engines is the distributor is in the back, I am short, fat, and have a huge freakin noggin. HEI is easy to work with too. If I were a Buick, Ford or B/RB guy points would be an option. Its not too much trouble, its that I have a bunch of HEIs sitting around doing nothing.
@@UcantBeSerious03 19 huh? Those are rookie numbers... I have more trucks than that, some of them even run!
Uncle Tony always makes good points, whether he is talking about points or not.
I am 55 and grew up wrenching on the farm. Everything had points for awhile. I was building and tweaking things in the early to mid 80's. I drove stuff from the 60's and early 70's in the 80's because I did not have a lot of money. I laughed when you started talking about the road side repairs. Every car I had contained several things in the glove box. Extra set of points and condenser, match book and possibly a recipe card. Also a finger nail file or possibly some emery cloth, a small pocket screw driver, 2 spark plugs, a rag and a can of WD40.
I used to drive international scouts and trucks. They were notorious for getting water up into the distributor from the smallest puddle or splash. Driving down the hwy. in a rain storm would leave them helpless. A quick spray and wipe down with a rag and WD40 and I was back on the road.
The old binders had the dist. on the front of the engine where they would get water up in them.
A lot of people don't know that the WD in WD40 stood for Water Displacement. It excels at that and every off roader I know of carried it in their rig for multiple uses.
I reset many large oversized truck and implement back on the rim with a squirt and a flame.
The trick was to make sure you pulled the valve stem core out first.
Heh Heh, oh the dirty greasy memories.
You condensored this down and made electrified points using your advanced timing, distributoring this knowledge to your rotationally affected subscribers. Congratulations.
I truly love Tony's enthusiasm as he completely nerds out over this stuff. He really knows his shit and his joy in sharing it really comes through on these things he's passionate about. Very cool.
A few times I watch preppers talking about survival vehicles. They talk about all sorts of stuff, mostly exotic stuff. I was the only one who said that I would get an older vehicle that had a points ignition or switch a vehicle to a points system. Easy to carry replacement parts, easy to fix and not effected by electronic damages.
George if anything goes too pieces and most things burn out, Coils are "easy" to wind take it you can find enough wire with coating on it 5000v might be enough to run at least with right plugs
I still think for a daily driver no nonsense car, an electronic ignition swap is worth it.
In the 90s I had a small collection of '60s mopars. They each got junkyard ignition from '80s cars. Nothing expensive, nothing high performance, but I found reliability greatly improved.
Bingo but most people won't realize how truthful your comment is. Modern Yamaha dirt bikes can adjust timing via phone app. Pertronix n Progrssion ignition system are game changers.
That is what I have always thought about people that complain about having to deal with points on old cars. They usually complain about other aspects of the car right after that. If they can't handle it, buy a newer car that they can handle. I've always enjoyed working with points, never left me stranded, or not started. Ever go to a car show or cruise in and notice about half of the cars that pull in and out don't sound like they run quite right? most of those have had the kitchen sink thrown under the hood and usually aftermarket electronic ignition as well, not that it's the fault of the ignition usually, just the mentality of if it's new it's gotta make it run better. People always turn around to see what started when I start my car up and drive out of those events, and it's got stock ignition with standard points and blue streak ignition coil, 7mm standard motor products wires as well. I'm the only person on my block that owns a dwell meter, I am sure of that and that's just fine by me.
One hack that not everyone knows about , is - you can use an MSD ignition box (6A, 7AL, whatever) in conjunction with a points distributor , alot of the dirt track guys use this setup. Your lightning bolts turn into cosmic deathrays and for the total analog tinfoil hat failsafe guys - the advantage is, if the MSD lightning box dies, you can just remove a couple of wires and hook the distributor up as normal and drive home!
Great point ! MSD 6 box in conjunction with a good set of points is the best of both worlds. The points will last a lot longer, as only milli-volts is going through them instead of 7-12. The only bugaboo is rubbing block wear, so you'll have to re-gap the points occasionally. If the box fails on the road, converting back to conventional ignition is straight-forward.
I had electronic aftermarket ignition on my 1962 for years and it died on me in the middle of nowhere in the desert in a sand storm.
I found an old set of points in my trunk ripped out the EIM and jammed the points in set them while spitting out sand and got back on the road in about 30 minutes.. I replaced them with new when i got home and they have been working perfectly for 5 years straight,, I will never go back to electronic ignition..
EMP Event in the Tom Cruse, The War of the Worlds movie:…..The only car running in his town because of the EMP event was “his”factory ignition points 65 Mustang GT.
I really don't see how points are still gonna work.
So I'm better off with an old VW diesel, it will need nothing.
Remove the shutoff plunger from the injector pump, and pop start it down a hill.
Remember, batteries and starters are all fried right ?
Diesel is gonna be the only way, no electricity needed and the damaged parts can be removed to make it run.
How so you shut it off?
Idle or up to a tree, pop it in 3rd gear and let the clutch out.
If you're smart, the tree is on a hill so you don't have to push start it.
Nah, his super annoying son said it just shut off. They drove off in a minivan that the shop owner replaced the starter on and it ran. An EFI vehicle is gonna have a hard time running after an EMP. Was just thinking of that while swapping a 4.8 out and a 6.0 in my crewcab. I should put a bunch of these alternators, starters, ECMs, harnesses, and fuel system parts in some old refrigerators. I have all that stuff for my Pontiacs in a fridge already, I can get 5 of them running the same day.
@@MrTheHillfolk You're assuming the wiring that is in the diesel doesn't start a fire. The last Carrington Event we had in the 1800s burned down telegraph poles and started wild fires when the wires melted. Letting the smoke out of every piece of wire in the car, and putting a charge in all the metal is gonna cause problems even with diesels.
You're dead wrong. His son stole his mustang and it died like all the other cars. Tom stole a minivan that was just fixed from ignition parts on the shelf. He took off with his kids as the mechanic was vaporized by aliens.
You come straight out and say it right out the gate:
You are a points guy.
Mad respect.
Definitely keep this in mind, don’t fix what ain’t broken. Hit the nail on the head when it comes to on the road repairs. Keep the knowledge coming bud.
If you can't fix it don't break it .
The more simple, the better!
Ignition systems in new cars speak Klingon!
God Bless
😎
My old points iggy diagnostic rig was a motorcycle turn signal bolted to a roachclip, with a nail soldered to the pigtail. Used it to check points, coils, static time, etc. Pals would roll their eyes first time they saw it, then beg to borrow it, lol.
Tony most if not all issues with Pertronix type ignition systems is that most novice builders don't bother to check the voltage output of either the genenerator or alternator at approx 2500 rpm. Sometimes voltage outputs can be up around 15 volts if not checked. This tends to cook the module which overheats then shuts down for 20 - 30 minutes. The cycle will repeat until the module finally dies. Also the coil should be around the 3.2 - 3.4 ohm primary resistance (if not add a ballast resistor to correct the primary resistance to that value). Another way to kill a Pertronix type module is to wire it up "accidently" in reverse polarity. Result...instant death. No need to ask how I learned this. 😉
I remember being on the road with a 73 chevy station wagon and the engine quit. I got out and found that the points were out of adjustment, I actually adjusted the points with a matchbook cover and finished the trip. A few years later I was traveling in my Chevy S10 pickup, it quit on top of a bridge at 5 in the morning, it was the ignition modual and I couldn't do anything about it and had to wait a couple of hours for a ramp truck to tow me home.
Few months ago i was pondering on the buying and using a set of pertronix and thought "There has to be a reason on why people move away from points"
Never thought that main reasoning would be because of the free of maintenance portion. Points are easily set and are easy to under stand and the convenience of repair.
when a points set does go out at the side of the road, no need for a expensive scan tool to get you back on the road, sticking with points, thanks Tony!
What you describe with the racing distributor that has a ball bearing is essentially what scintilla vertex magnetos had since the 1920’s ish. Love analog stuff, especially magneto ignition.
Who else is out there making great videos like this I ask ? No one just uncle Tony and for that we thank you 👍
I fully agree UT! Back in the late 80's/early 90's, I put a Pertronix conversion in my 009 distributor on my daily driver '67 Bug due to less maintenance. My 2 '55 Chevy's (1 a Hilborn Injected SBC with a Mag and my L79 327 street car), I decided to try the Pertronix conversion on my '55 Street Car. I spent less time under the hood tinkering. I started to have withdrawals when I noticed my dwell meter collecting cobwebs! It wasn't fun anymore and I felt my tuning skills begin to fade away! Meanwhile, the HEI in my '80 Chevy Crew Cab started going through modules...once leaving me dead on the freeway! Later, when I decided to get back under the hood of my Chevy's, I went back to Standard Brand Points/condensers. I also bought an old Sun 404 Distributor Tester like I used in High School and I am having fun again!!! Thanks for reinforcing my decision by coming up with the performance stats to back them up!
My brother has had the same set of points on his land cruiser since he bought it like 12 years ago, hard to beat the reliability of Toyota engineering from the 80's.
Back in '93-ish I converted my 428 Ford to Pertronix & haven't looked back. Since orig install, I've added a 6AL that's triggered by the Pertronix. I did replace the repo Autolite plug wires as the 6AL burned those up. Now use 7mm Flame Thrower spiral core. Haven't touched the plugs in over 20 years(OK I pulled one & reinstalled maybe five years ago).Runs without issue, in fact far better when cold than with points.
Yeah I keep a set of points and condenser in console, haven't needed them in 29 years.
I THINK you pretty much hit the nail on the head with your opening statement 'Back in '93-ish...'
QC no longer stands for 'Quality Control' for a LOT of things today (unfortunately).... NOW QC stands for 'QUANTITY control'....
I see it dang near every day at the parts store I presently work at (been working at various 'mom and pop' parts stores off and on for over 40 years).
The ONCE quality parts are (for a lot of them) simply riding the coat tails of their name but providing piss poor product.
So for you to have really good performance out of the Pertronix system ALL of these years says a lot about what once was....sadly.....
@@russdavis1960 I mostly agree, had to return a Raybestos brake drum because it had a hole in it. Yeah was a offshore part.
With my Pertronix I'm on other side of fence, in other words age failure concerns me. Electronics does not have a indefinite lifespan. Couple years ago I checked the condenser in my console, was dead, lotta good that'd have done me. Got a fresh(er) one in there now.
I actually have a spare Pertronix unit, maybe nine years old. Was in a Fairlane I bought three years ago, 700 mi from home. On way home performance went to Hell, I was 99% problem was the knockoff POS offshore Motorcraft carb(lost a vacuum plug in base of carb) but in desperation installed points/condenser. Didn't help. I'm still running points in that one but tune is still reasonably fresh.
I recently convinced a fellow with a 429 Torino to reinstall his Pertronix(claimed it hurt bottom end). He'd been playing mix & match with three or four sets of points, condenser & coils. Would break up around 5300-5400. Says now it'll pull past 6000 with ease.
Makes perfect sense to me. I grew up in the late 60's early 70's, so I was accustomed to using and maintaining points. A couple of years ago I retired, and was lucky enough to buy the car I wanted when I was 16, a 1973 Mustang Mach 1. As I was checking things out and tuning it up, I thought I wanted an electronic ignition to replace the points. After doing some reading online, I found out that there had been some problems with the ignition I was looking at. Someone had posted, if you go with that system, you need to keep a spare module! Really? So I got a new set of points and it's been running great. Cars ran great with the points system for many miles, so I figured I would stick with what I knew would work, and what I was familiar with. Great video, keep 'em coming!
Back in the day when I eas young, I was taught that it was this easy, "If it doesn't start its either fuel,spark or air". All easy to diagnose.
Tony doesn’t mess around he gets right to the points.🤠
I like the little black GM ignition modules there like $15 and you can keep em in the glove box
Thanks for this. In the last month I have had an electronic ignition module fail on me, and then two weeks after, the replacement module failed. Now I’m back on the original distributor with points and condenser. The idle is smoother than before and the engine responds so well immediately.
🟥🟥🟥 I'm 72 and I still have a point file in my wallet. And for those racers out there, let's not forget about cam walk and cam thrust buttons.
All effect timing and distributor chatter. Put electronic ignition in my old shovel head.It took a shit in daytona. Went back to points.
No problems since. Shudda never changed. Great vids. Keep up the good work. ps...you'll always get home with points.
Better than a file is a finger nail board, the small ones that look like a popsicle stick. Or better yet, just a folded bit of sandpaper.
Touch and hold a clip to pin it. Unpinned clips will be deleted after 1 hour.
It's the ANALOG vs. DIGITAL War!
Same as people who have gone back to (or never left) vinyl records and turntables instead of CD's or other digital medium. It ain't the same sound....
Shocking, electrifying info. Fires me up.
I always loved the little "window" in the GM distributors. Of course we all have dwell meters, right?
I always gap them by Eye! I have never seen the Chevy ones sadly since im in Italy but if i check points After setting them by eye with the gauges they are always on spec😁
I was using a Vertex mag in my 301 SBC in 63 and had no problem….😊
Thanks man for doing this man!
Learned sooo much so far.
Great way to keep the car passion alive for all
I first got into points with the Ford distributers and the single pivot point for vacuum advance. Niehoff made a replacement breaker plate that pivoted around the center shaft and therefore reduced the erratic dwell with vacuum advance. Niehoff made a great plate for stock replacement on tractors that could easily be made into a dual-point setup with a little drilling, threading and patience! A stock modified distributer with a super coil would hold for almost all of our needs. Hope we can educate some more about the use of our old-time ways to succeed where electronics fail. What about the capacitance-discharge systems?
I am glad you made the comment about the breaker plate. I did some searching and found some on ebay under the dyna-flyte brand. They rotate on a ball bearing instead of a floppy pivot like the stock Ford stuff does. I ordered one for a Ford FE points distributor and the model I bought can be used as both single or dual point WITH vacuum advance. gonna give that a try!
Cool stuff, what a genius Jenkins was. He figured this stuff out from scratch.
That's awesome. I picked up 2 old stock Mallory dual point distributors for my Chevy truck project
Personally I’m not really into American cars, more so MGs and Triumphs. I’ve used Bosch components in my MGB and Spitfire. Never had a problem with points. Absolutely spot on.
Bosch stuff is great !
Haha except the plugs ,gimme ngk all day.
@@MrTheHillfolk Anything is a step up from Lucas, the company that invented darkness.
I will watch this video several times. So much good stuff.
I had a Mallory dual point mechanical advance distributor on my 67 GTS worked great.
back in the 70's I always ran a set of HD Bluestreak points in a stock single point distributor that had a much heavier spring pressure than stock. I eventually upgraded to a Mallory dual point distributor which I still run in my 327 engine.
This is good - I have a points back-up distributor for both my vehicles because of what you're saying.
And since my MSD went south unexpectedly on the road and made me have to call a tow, a few years ago.
I just may switch back after watching this.
But that MSD gets my engine started on cold mornings, in a snap.
Coming back from Arizona to L.A. my ford courier got stranded.I opened the hood and cleaned the points and the engine hummed nicely back home.The best for when you are traveling
I really like your videos. Learning a lot and share with my sons. They are learning too! Thanks
Great info Tony. Just bought a Ford with a 428 FE. It has points. I want to master the original“old school” system. Thanks for swimming upstream.
VERY informative video. Now I know why full race distributors were used.
A few years ago we had a condenser failure problem (inferior parts). I did Google it, I researched it for almost 2 years. I learned a lot but the silver bullet was found when I spoke to an old timer neighbor who used to sell condensers for Mallory.
Just installed a fresh uniset points condenser. Glad I saved my protool dwell meter. When I left the business I grabbed a bunch of sets seeing that electronics were the future(?).
I’m with you on the points issue. Electronic ignition was a solution to a problem that didn’t exist.
Hmm , now wait im having a memory come back. Some oldtimer said when your parking with the chick and Radio on make sure the coil doesnt have power if the motor in the exactly wrong spot points can heat up or weld together
Right you are! I ran a Ford Boss 302 to 7200 rpm with a Ford dual point, ran 12.76 @106 mph in a 68 Mustang at Englishtown in early 70s
My granddad introduced me to dual point dizzys on his boat. 383 Chrysler with one of those Prestolite units. No idea why you'd need that on a cabin cruiser, wide open was like 4400 rpm but thats what it came with. I remember him showing me how to do the dwell by stuffing a match book cover between one set of points at a time to dial it in.
All the information in this video was straight to the point! And you touched on all the different points of view
Im dwelling on your points. Hopefully they will spark more interest to continue using them.
I think Tony has proven that going electronic is pointless...
Thanks uncle Tony, I'm with you on the whole points thing!!!
I still have a points file in my toolbox, yes it's a thing!!!
Excellent info. Just saved me 200 bucks on upgrading my ignition
Point's so good my boat powerd by the legendery AQ115 most economicel for its size and reliable still running since new in 70's.
My mk 2 daimler point rev straight to 6 thousand in all gears.
Good to see ya ut this early in the morning here in Australia. peace
I’ll watch this video ten more times because it’s so damn good! Been tuning engines with points for 46 years and totally agree that it’s the best!
Shows great look forward to your installments
Points ignition, drum brakes and TV antennas FOREVER!
and Ethyl gasoline.
Still running points in my 71 383 Charger SE. Never understood the urge to replace them with electronic, and I have a 72 Rallye with electronic as well. Granted the 71 is a summer car but I haven't replaced the points in over five years and it still runs great. I have spare point sets ready to go but there has been no need. If your car still has points save your money.
My Dad has been running aftermarket Mallory non vac advance distributors on his 350 Chevy powered Model A for the last 50 years. I inherited it from him after he passed a few years ago and could not get it to run smoothly when cruising at slower speeds. I bought a stock GM vac advance points distributor at a swap meet for $10 and swapped it out and the engine has never ran smoother! A win for old technology.
I love your videos because your old school I ran points for years ì had a accel duel point distributer in my street car motors in the 70s and 80s I never switched over to hei till the 90s when I built my first big block it is alot less problems that can go on with points. I'm getting ready to put my 427 in my 88 monte carlo SS and I am going to put a msd box and distributer in that car I think it's just alot more money I have to spend for not that much of a difference I'll only be bringing the motor up to 6800 max. Thanks for the video your friend from Louisiana Rick 427
I bought a Maverick Grabber for $200 back around 1979 because it quit running and would not start. Points block wore down and no gap. Reset the gap and it ran fine.
First rate Uncle Tony. I learned a lot. Thanks. Chuck in Florida.
Thank you, Uncle Tony.
When I went to pertronix I just kept a set of points and condenser in the glove box and kept the ballast on the firewall
Thanks for all the info it was extremely valuable. As in, it will save some people a lot of money!
Great breakdown Unc 👍
Your the man Tony. Thanks again
I learn something every time I watch your videos. Couldn't I do the Jenkins trick with a Turbo/Boost? I have a good Malory dual point. I'd just have to figure out where to set the second set of points.
I almost ways get something out of you videos. Thank you! 👍
It's funny that you brought up that old dyno test,because I was just referencing that very test while telling some friends of mine how points are by no means inadequate as a performance ignition system. I actually copied your trick with a dual point distributor out of a first generation hemi to work in my 318 that I put a 100 shot of nitrous on. I've also got an Accel dual point distributor for an RB block that has the bearing on the upper part of the shaft. I plan on using it once I build a big block. I'll have to find a mechanical tach drive style teach so I can use that option with that distributor.
I always used Mallory points distributors. I used the Double Life duel point half count cam lobes. Sadly there out of business in Carson City, Nevada.
That's why we used to keep the springs off old points and triple them up on new points!
I think this is my new favorite video
Thanks for the schooling.
My buddy had a '73 Z28 that was running a little on the rough side. This older guy comes over says the gap on your points probably need closed up a bit..whipped out a match book and a screwdriver and within a few minutes we were back on the road banging gears
Good one Tony. I always learn from you.
I used dual points in my street cars in the 70's, but my blown small block Chevy I used a vertex magneto. I had plenty of spark at 9000 rpm. Ran a best of 8.02 in a 2500 lb steel body 35 Ford roadster. Yea, we made a roadster from a coupe. Tree limb ruined the roof.
This information maybe above the average home engine builder, but very important. Maybe a video of explaining point gap and using using an old school dwell meter is in order? Cheers,
EDIT: Using a dwell meter was the most accurate way of setting points when I was an apprentice in school. Just my opinion. :-)
Never heard of splitting two set of points on a dual-point distributor, but affter installing a Accel dual point in my 351 Cleveland with a lumpy cam, the idle smoothed significantly, and over-all performance was better than the factory single point.
You're 100% correct I would never use a protronics over points and you're also 100% correct no points will ever make it to 9 to 10,000 RPMs correct
Thank you always Tony
As a new hot rod teenager in the mid to late 80s, my first few cars had point AC Delco distributors. I did not tighten the screws on my 71 Impala's points snug enough and it loosened up on the highway. I figured it out pretty quickly and got it running again. I even recall the "Help!" section of the auto parts stores used to sell an assortment pack of point screws.
A few years later as a college freshman, I bought a higher mileage 72 Monte Carlo and put an Accel coil and tan cap on it. I think I bought the plugs, points and wires from K-Mart as they still stocked stuff like that. Car ran fine for the first part of the school year, but it seemed to develop an ignition problem and was breaking up. I had a dwell meter and I verified it was in spec. Problem persisted. Maybe the condenser was bad, but I gave up on points at that point. Summer break was at hand and my jalopy was not going to make it home misfiring for a 7 hour drive. The dorm was closing soon so I asked my buddy to drive to the local junkyard and pick me up a used HEI with wires for $25. I opened the gap on the old plugs and swapped the HEI and wires in the dorm parking lot. The swap cured my problem. I never had any further ignition problems with the Monte.
All my hot rods since then have electronic ignitions and my small engines do too. I never liked taking the flywheel off the lawnmower to access the points. Worries about dwell going out of spec or the points burning or a condenser failing are long in the past. The point is my hot rod experience is better without points.
It was a bitch if you dropped the screw!!!
Great video!!!
There is another effect which makes adjustment easier. A change of points gap induces a change in spark timing along with change of dwell. With single points you set the contact gap first, then run the engine (or spin the distributor) to check dwell, then re-adjust the points (if necessary) to get the correct dwell. Then you may need to go back and check/reset the timing again, as the dwell adjustment could have changed the spark timing. With dual points you set the gap on both sets of points, then set the timing, which is controlled solely by the secondary points (which open last). Then if necessary you can change the dwell by adjusting the primary contact set, which will have no effect whatsoever on spark timing, so you don't have to reset timing after adjusting dwell.
The real reason for using dual points is for improved life, long term stability and reduction of service calls, but has naught to do with increasing dwell. For what it's worth, I commonly run more than 20,000 miles on the Mallory Dual Points distributor without touching the points. This is one robust distributor, and I am one happy customer (except for the prices on Mallory tune up parts).
There is one more notable feature of the Mallory Dual Points distributor. It has an adjustment for mechanical adance upper limit (maximum advance stop). If you set idle timing to 10 degrees BTDC, and there is no vacuum unit, and you want 36 degrees total spark timing at road speed, you can set the mechanical advence limit to 26 degrees. If you have a vacuum unit that can produce 7 degrees advance, and you want to set idle timing at 15 degrees BTDC and limit maximum total advance to 36 degrees at speed, you can set the Mallory max mechanical advance to 14 degrees. This is a handy feature if you do any special tuning (and don't we all?) so you don't have to buy new or modify the mechanical limit stops or advance weights.
Thankyou for good histry and the tips, i like points to.
Hey Tony,
Tim here again......yes i love points, but quality of manufacturing, and availability, has pushed my shop to ONLY MSD distibutors, easy to tune, easy to work on......wether its a ready to run (daily driver), or with a box, 500 hp and above....they have shown us the reliability we were after, and tuneability we needed......just a thought......MSD has good stuff....well, as long as QC is still in place.....again, just thoughts.......i like ur old school methods, and understand them....so i dig the whole thing....jus sayin MSD has continually brought great performance, and reliability to our table.......i probly wont be able to bias you to electronic ign.....but i wanted to give food for thought......PEACE my brother!!
Valuable comment thanks!
How much adjustability do you have with ready to run MSD units? Can I tune the advance curve somehow or is it preset and can't be changed at all?
@@milanskipala7593 its the easiest to change the curve......its all in the box.....advance stop bushings, and springs.....gimme 10 min, the curve will be rite for your application.....actually, if ur thinkin of getting one, tell me ur motor combo and tranny, i can tell u what springs/bushings to use....(need heads, and cam also)....easiset, most reliable deal out there at moment....will help u if u like
Another great video
Be well utg fam!
really good video found it after i sent you the email.
I'd love to run a points distributor in my 5.0 swap Ranger but the only distributors I can find is are 1 marine unit and a bunch of "new" Chinese made ones. Original Ford stuff was crushed years ago in my area and, even if I could find an O.E.M. unit, the parts to rebuild it would probably come from overseas anyway.
Good point!
My dad has a 69' E-type (straight 6) that he "restored" and put a pertronix distributor in, since the original was smashed. Car ran good for a while, but started running poorly, so he parked it... for 5 years. I decided I was tried of pushing it out of the shop when I needed to grind, so I'd fix it. Ended up watching a Thunderhead289 video about how to avoid killing pertronix, we had the ballast resistor installed still, just like he said not to do. Turns out we had been slowly killing the ignition module, lasted ~600 miles. I went on ebay, got a points distributor, put it in, set the timing, set the timing again not 180 out, and boom started up. It's funny in hindsight, or maybe I use laughter as a coping mechanism to deal with the stupidity of that. POINTS FTW
I could not get a Pertronix to work on either 6 cyl chevy of mine, so back to points and power was restored. I thought it was just me. :-)
My dad's '59 Bonneville had an issue that we chased for a while and it turned out that the problem was an intermittent high frequency fault in the condenser, which had been replaced not long before.
great video....as always....set motors up with duel points back in the 80ies....GM accel disturter...Knew how to service them & set them up...would love to have somone explane how u can get differant timeing & the internals..in depth....mayb a later video...?...Thanks U.T. ....Hey Tony ...do u remember the Malory power cell....it kept the kv's @ 80,000....on a stock gm hei when u were takeing the motor over 8000...instaled a few of them...& they worked...off topic but....
That full race distributor is only way to go