Synthetic vs Conventional Oil In Classic Cars
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- It's pretty well established that synthetic engine oils offer some pretty distinct advantages over the conventional oils used in older engines. But, how compatible are they?
Here are the things that need to be considered when making the switch. What areas are going to give you trouble, and what are the quick, easy fixes to keep those expensive modern lubricants inside your engine where they belong.
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Great explanation Tony! As a 21 year certified Amsoil dealer, I couldn't have explained it any better myself. My poor '71 charger has a kinked up left quarter too. One of these days I'll get the old girl back in shape!
Thank you!
My '63 Savoy has the same left quarter. I just left it for now.
Hey, you probably owe me some kickback money! I sold a lot of your products!🤣
@@UncleTonysGarage , If synthetic oil is such a good lubricant that it won't let new cast rings wear in properly, why do I need to add zinc to my (synthetic) oil to prevent my flat tappet cam from having wear problems? These two things seem to contradict each other. Not trying to call you out. Love your channel
@@jasoncornish2904 easy answer, build a new motor that way put it in and find out.
As a retired chemist, I can add another perspective. Engine oil refined from crude oil contains some hydrocarbons that don't lubricate very well. These are large molecules that can be considered as garbage that doesn't get filtered out in the refining process. Some of these contaminants also break down and burn resulting in sludge(carbon). This is why the oil change interval is so much shorter than synthetic. The carbon reduces lubricity even more. New car manufactures recommend viscosities that were unheard of in the 1970s and before, because the low viscosity can pump quicker and lubricate sooner, longevity is gained this way also. Heavier viscosity is sluggish and gets to the bearing later but creates a thicker film on the bearings once oil pressure builds. This strategy was a compromise that erred on the side of lubricating once a load was applied to the engine. Hope this makes sense. Bottom line is the price is a wash over time but, synthetic will increase the the maintenance interval and engine longevity. Modest power increases have also measured by dynamometer testing. A word about brands. Testing has been done comparing like kind viscosities. Amsoil at the time out performed all others. Walmart and Costco store brands came in last, but all out performed conventional hands down and all meet current oil standards which auto manufacturers specify. Uncle Tony knows his stuff.
Did you make and sell the chems back in the day? Lol
@@kxp.1496 In high school, I burned some mild herbal aromatics.
I’ve been partial to Castrol synthetic 0-20 myself in my 3cyl because supposedly Castrol has done a lot of testing and racing with high revving engines 🤷♂️
@@lawrencecarlson2425 0-20 Castrol is full synthetic. Just did my LOF this early morning to beat the heat.
But pennzoil platinum ultra beats every oil on the market except Amsoil and is 40% cheaper and can be bought in 5 qt. bottles at walmart.
I ran full synthetic in my 1975 Pontiac Laurentian (basically a Catalina without AC that was sold in Canada) for all the years I used it as my daily. Never had any leak issues and that thing ran beautifully. I remember in particular one year when one of my neighbours, older guy than me, said "Oooh.... you're going to have a real time with that in the winter." Then when winter came, we had a really super-cold day that was -28°C (-18°F) and he was out there cranking and cranking his late 90s Ford Taurus and I got out and started up the old Laurentian on the first turn of the key. Eventually, the car had to be laid to rest after 31 years of active service to three owners, me being the last (it out-lived the first two), but the engine lived on in a 1980s shorty van that's still on the road today. The guy that rebuilt it said the engine was the most pristine thing he'd ever seen inside.
Thank you for this ~ it's a big help. I'm reading comments here to understand why my longtime Buick Club dad would insist on a particular big name synthetic for his prized 1975 Buick, while watching what Uncle Tony had to say here about gaskets etc.
must have had rubber gaskets. and dont compare to a ford taurus not starting. that is normal:)
We sold Amsoil in the speedshop I worked In years ago. The Amsoil Rep told me they did a dyno test with regular oil vs Amsoil. The Amsoil made 4 horsepower more each time they tested. 4hp from just oil is kinda impressive.
I drag raced and used conventional oil. So I and every other racer knew my ets. I switched to synthetic oil the car went a solid one half second quicker ran that way for two events ,added prolong and it picked up another half second. Everyone there came to me to see what I was doing lol all who used prolong saw the same results ,my friend bought the car was racing one nite and the car was running hot ,he checked everything it was out of oil , he called me I looked at the bent valve cover. Fixed that added the same oil mix , it took all five quarts and was still being raced when he sold it to another racer. The motor had been running with no oil and the motor didn't care, I still run the same oil mix today in my motors
..... This is probably my favorite car channel here on YT.... I am more of a Chevy guy, but have a huge passion for ALL muscle cars👍🇺🇸.... I have found that every bit of information that Tony gives to be absolutely 100% true, having been down those roads myself at some point, and having to figure stuff out and get information when needed... I really appreciate Tony for keeping the spirit alive, and preserving this piece of Americana that has had such a great influence on so many people in this country and around the world 👍🇺🇸👍🇺🇸
Same
honestly, out of all the cars you own, the charger feels/looks like your signature car
like the car people think you drive when they see you
That's how I look at it, keeps the underside lubricated and rust free on my old 88 Blazer. She has over 644,000 miles on the original engine and transmission.
Wow thats impressive!
all new cars are scrap, keep those oldies rolling!!
Doubtful, unless you put a documented all 644k miles on it.
Its certainly better for cold weather as well. Flows better for those cold starts
Cold start is when the majority of engine wear occurs.
It's my understanding. That most engine wear occurs. Especially in the cylinder bores. At coolant temperates under 172°f.
@@jeniaa2413 In Tom Monroe's book "How to Rebuild Small Block Ford Engines", there is a chart that graphs the increase in engine wear at various coolant temperatures. The difference it shows in wear at low temps is pretty dramatic. Maybe the increase in wear could be mitigated by synthetic oil??? Just a thought experiment.
We have a truck here at work and I think the bearings on the turbo went out because of not properly warming the vehicle up. If anything when cool or cold the operator shouldn't have pedal'd it so hard (spooling up the turbo) when cold. Those bearings are a bit different. Kind of like greasing a zurk fitting when in operation. This jams the ball bearings and they don't move freely.
Glad you defined old as pre 70's in the context of this. People today think old is anything in the 90s! and earlier. So much misunderstanding happens with relative terminology. I see people recommending mineral 20w50 oils for 90s GM's 🤦♂️even though GM have been running 5w30 synthetic since the 80's when roller cams came into play.
My dad bought a used 1988 Buick Riviera in 1992 with 50,000 miles and he ran nothing but conventional 10W40 in it. He finally started having too many problems with the ventilation system being linked to the computer touch screen and sold it with about 250,000 miles on it about ten years later.
My 90 c2500 has a flat tappet cam in it. They didn't start to run roller cams or at least provisions for roller cams in SBC Chevys till 6/95 for the introduction of the vortec. 20w50 will work just fine for flat tappets. OHV is a little different though.
Old is 25 yrs old are older. Not being a butt, but anything 25 yrs ate older is antiq8
@@scottsawyer1218you must only be that old. 25 years isn't that long ago to an older person. Old to me is 70's & under cars
I like listening to people that know what they're talking about. You, my friend, are one of those people.
Almost akin to Smokey Yunick. Bare knuckles and down to earth.
I try to tell every one of my car guys about your channel because you are literally a well of knowledge that needs to be heard
love the explanation you have, I drive a '64 Merc with a 352CID {still all original} I run Castrol GTX 10W40 given she's got around 75K mile, doesn't burn a drop and compression is still within limits, the guys who built it would have never guessed she'd be going on 60yrs and still running
I’ve run synthetic for decades now, my engines are rarely oil tight, and you are right, not so much drips but a film, not a problem. I started running synthetic when I raced the car, and never stopped. The car still has insane rear gears, and I often take highway cruises, cruising at 5K, it’s like the onboard soundtrack from a Trans Am car. Back in the distant past, all the serious guys ran high 4’s to low 5’s in their cars.
Best explanation for using or not using synthetic oil in an older engine. Thank you.
This is all valuable info. I for one, had not considered the cast ring issue. That's very good to know. I do know(from a very bad experience 25 years ago) that using any kind of additive like DURA LUBE, in any kind of newly built engine, the rings will never seat correctly. For the similar reason you mentioned. That stuff bonds to metal. Rings included lol. I had a brand new 97 Pontiac GP GTP that I thought throwing in some dura lube was a great idea. That poor engine burnt oil for a very long time, because the rings never seated correctly because of the additive. I'll never use any additives, or synthetics in a new engine again.
However I do like using synthetics. You can run synthetic oil in an engine for 200k,with regular oil changes, and tear the engine down, and it'll look clean as the day it was built. Synthetics won't varnish and stain like conventional oils do. Lots of detergents. Walmart Super Tech full synthetic is just as good as any big brand name oil, and it costs almost the same as any other conventional oil. I'll never go 10,000 miles on an oil change. I still stick with 3000 period.
Integrity is a trait we are all born with but many never keep this important trait. Tony has always kept his integrity and it’s clear he is a good guy. Thank you sir for all you do.
Tony I have the exact same wheels and tires on my old Chevy! I've been runnin Amsoil in everything I own, my 68 Impala, lawn mower, chain saw, compressor, weed wacker, etc. for the last fifteen years. They make synthetic oil with zinc already in it for our old classics.
Not seeing a power-booster (vacuum assisted), for the brakes, brings back all kinds of not so good memories, lol. Could get the old Mustang up to speed, but I could not stop the damn thing - with 4-wheel drum brakes, no power-assist. Love your content, Tony!
I totally agree! Years ago I bought a used Harley Sportster 1200, changed the oil and put in a synthetic of the same weight to lengthen the engine life. It started sweating oil, steadilym the next day. I replaced with Harley dealer oil----- no leaks.
I loved the 66-67 Chargers. Probably for the same reason I loved the 65-70 fastback Mustangs. It's just a great look.
Been using conventional since 1982, I'm not stopping now.
DD's Speed shop!! Right on, much love from Canada! Love your vids Tony!
Use to engineer industrial lube systems and had to go through a few tribology courses. Despite the results you get - it still comes down to base oils + additives. This is why changing oil types can be more problematic even with a good oil change interval. The incompatibility of some additives, or base oils not mixing...all can create more problems than solutions. A good case it to look at say Penzoil platinum (natural gas base) vs another synthetic with crude base. DO NOT interchange those, commit to one. If you plan on transitioning - do the oil change +filter. And then do a relatively short change interval there after to commit to the new oil type.
The statement on "no zinc additives" is not true with higher end "full synthetics" and actually another additive that will takes the place of zinc is Molybdenum disulfide. MoS2 is used in industrial greases among other high pressure anti-wear applications. If you want the straight stuff for automotive use you can get liquimoly MoS2 additive. But with a full synthetics you really don't need it, as its usually already there.
Project farm is a good YT channel for seeing the oil additive contents and results of various brands.
What makes the synthetics "so good" at lubricating is their film retention regardless of viscosity. Their viscosity curves are also much more consistent (even when "burned" and after the rated life). Synthetics are superior at this by design.
A very enlightening explanation. Thanks!
Project Farm did a breakdown on Super Tech. It had 726 ppm zinc, where the STP additive had 1...
@@olikat8 go back and watch that episode, though yes the STP was inferior ...it did not have 1, it had 127. or you confused it with the "old STP". Yes much less, but not next to none. This is more of a bad product with bad value than "no zinc additive". Plus, the STP explicitly states zddp on the bottle...and it turns out not much for dedicated additive.
This doesn't change that most all modern full synthetic oils either use MoS2, Zinc, or Phosphorus as an anti wear additive. And my original comment was to say that in place of zinc (which was one of the first widely adopted additives), now we are seeing MoS2 and such in place of zinc.
These days, some oils are replacing molybdenum with titanium, as titanium is cheaper than molybdenum by weight. It works, but in published testing, those oils don't perform quite as well, but likely good enough.
@@frjhracing With popular additives, too much zddp can foul sensors, so I would imagine it would get reduced from previous years, just to be compatible with newer engines.
First truck had a 350 SBC that had a few leaks. Switched to synthetic and it was noticeably losing oil faster. Fixed the oil leaks and then it didn't have an issue with synthetic. Super worth it since I was driving this truck in cold weather. I never lengthen the interval I change oil even if synthetic is rated to last longer, don't forget that unburnt fuel and combustion gasses contaminate the oil the same.
Always great knowledge to share from UTG.
I will give my two cents here. If you use high tack spray on cork, synthetic will not seep. I find that coating the cork essentially seals it.
I totally agree about the gaskets and synthetic oil. I found out for myself when I switched back to conventional oil - my leaks stopped. When rebuilding an engine make sure you plan ahead for synthetic oil if you want the benefits.
I changed to synthetic oil at 80,000 km in my 2008 Ranger when I bought it used. Never a problem. It's at 260,000 km now, never a leak.
that Synthetic oil,,, stinks horrable its so badd you can taste it YUKKK-GROSS !! ,, ,, when it leaks n burns off on the heads n exhaust (( on a oldskool 1970's
chevy v-8 )
i have a 1978 400 engine I put synthetic and car has not been driven just idle. can i switch back to conventional?
I used conventional oil to break in my Sportster then switched to synthetic. Also noticed you have a Dakota Digital MCL3200 on your 883R. Good little set up
This explains why my 66 Stang had oil all over the bottom! Thanks Tony!!!
Hey Uncle Tony, an excellent synthetic engine oil is Penrite ten tenths series. It contains extra zinc that’s required for all the older engines. An excellent Australian brand that you may get over in the US. Cheers😊
I always used rubber gaskets when they were available, UncleTony, also when I built my old 318 Polly back in the 80's, I used the brass freeze plugs and they're still in it right now. Never had to replace a single 1 of them, I did always keep antifreeze serviced every 4-5 years, but I've seen the typical tin ones pop or rust out even though the engines antifreeze had been serviced properly.
Of hand I don't recall if it has one on trans side or not, but LA & flathead 6 DO! Got a 77 Dodge B100 van 3 on the tree. I bought $225°°city impound auction that rear plug had blown out strong 318 with 3:21 rear. Blew the one out in my 39 coupe on way to the Doctor. Real pain getting it out.
@@catsandcarsringtailgang6188 Yep, those tin and rubber freeze plugs are just a wrecker call waiting to happen. I try to always replace them with the brass plugs for that very reason. The 2 tips I recommend is to use permanent locktite and a hard piece of seasoned white oak when you hammer them in to install them without messing them up.😎
So glad you covered this .
22 year old Dodge Dakota
Change to synthetic
Drove it 10,000 miles without a problem.
Thank the subscribers
One mentioned yo in the comments.
You got me hooked .
As a retired mechanic I use dino pennzoil in the summer and platinum pennzoil 5w20 in the winter.... 0 issues 0 oil usage
I build modern German engines, and we use conventional for first start, then drain, new filter, then conventional again for a couple hundred miles of ABUSE, then we switch to synthetic liqui moly or royal purple
My modern engine builder insisted they want full synthetic to seat the rings. This debate isn't one size fits all. I was confused when I got the new motor because I saw all the info and videos about using conventional like you said.
This is the proper way to seat rings and cylinder walls
My dream car perfect in every respect. The beautiful damage. Something so perfect about imperfection. She was a rescue with an RV 440. Not stock but not a joke and built by the everyman's hotrod hero. Frieburger's super bee Finnigan's blasphemi... Keep 'em. Not bad dudes but I ain't interested. Tony you have my deepest admiration and respect in what seems to be all aspect of ur life ie:cool home with plenty of animals to keep ya company,cool shop with a great crew,a growing yt channel for the right causes,collection second to none of vehicles that do what they do(charger as crown jewel), wonderful family and of course she needs no introduction but the beautiful witty and elegant uncle Kathy. Who keeps ya greasy side down and running strong! You sir are truly blessed and hell of a guy to share it all with us and most importantly help pass the torch to a generation that needs it(post cash for clunkers). Poor young'ns are lucky to find anything at all. Long-winded but maybe some early 2000s pointers and budget .mods?
I used Lucas classic car oil (with zinc) in my 1973 Mach 1. Did a ton of research, and I decided that was the best option. I found that adding the zinc to the oil was not equal to getting the zinc already in the oil.
The Lucas oil is great stuff. I use the 20W-50 in my 1957 Lincoln Capri and she purrs like a kitten! I also throw in a little lead substitute and Marvel Mystery Oil for some extra lubrication because she's running the original valve seats.
Hey there I’m a young 21 year old Mexican tryna get out the wicked Hood by 25 😂i smoke weed on my TH-cam channel and i also did a burger king Mukbang inside target 🍔🤞🤞
15w40 diesel oil has zinc in it .good for new or rebuilt engine break ins
@@flhusa1 I have used diesel oil in all my cars for 20 years, no problems.
@@gibbsey9579 I was told if you have a oil burner engine the 15w40 diesel engine oil will slow down oil burning. I can't say it does or doesn't help .
I ran amsoil synthetic oil for decades. I've never had any leaks or any camshafts wipe out.
Great SubjectTony, As an engine builder I knew this stuff but for everybody else take note because it’s true. On another note As modern cars become technical nightmares I sure could appreciate the older cars and particularly the Chrysler engines which I noticed we’re Built to the hilt and I will take those old cars over anything built today with a few modifications of course ,anyway great show… Keep on rockin…
My father has a '66 Charger 383 unrestored, and I just bought a '67 Charger last road-worthy early 90's I'm working on. Love to see some content on that ol' 1st Gen Mopar!
I went to a convention and asked the oil company fella why when we used synthetic in the kenworth why it would leak. He said all the molecules are the same size where as conventional oil theres bigger and smaller molecules and if your seals have some wear if one molecule goes through more will follow. Thats according to the oil nerd . Cheers 👍
northern wolfhound I have discovered the same thing. People who have higher mileage vehicles go full synthetic thinking for a better result. Then they complain of oil leaks. Synthetic oil has smaller molecules that will leak past seals. I use a synthetic blend on a 4runner with over 400k. No stains in the driveway. High mileage Castrol gtx has been used since 75k. To each their own on the brand's of oil. This has worked best for my rides.
Not splitting hairs, but oil for a combustion engine is far different than a spark engine. Your oil expert was making a generalization.
I bought a 350 crate motor with a manufacturer date of 2021 and they used cork gaskets. I couldn't figure out why they would do that, especially when they specifically state at the end of the breakin procedure you can switch to synthetic oil. When I went to install the intake manifold, I had to remove one of the valve covers for clearance.I found why they were not concerned with the cork leaking, it was slathered on either side with gray RTV. It was a real blast removing that while not letting it fall into the brand new engine's oil passages. It was from "Chevrolet Performance" and it's stamped made in Mexico.
Glad you mentioned the leaking bits. Rear main, front, distributor, and oil pan... I can tell you the entire undercarriage of my old Jeep was sufficiently lubricated. It blew out about a quarter pint a week.
Oil pressure runs a little on the high side but it could be just the way I drive it. (2.5L I4)
Good winterizing.
Been using AmsOil since 1977, no problems or issues with any of my engines. They love it.
Both my late model Mopars use 5W-20 synthetic oil and neither of them leak or even seep a drop of oil. 75W-90 or 75W-140 in both cars('12 Challenger R/T M6 trans and '14 Chrysler 300C, both use 5.7 hemi engines)
Our 1952 Jaguar XK120 coupe also uses AmsOil 20W-50 Z-Rod engine oil, runs cooler and has better oil pressure. All the old school Jag lovers considered it a sacrilege if I didn't use Castrol 30 or 40W straight weight dinosaur oil, but too bad. This engine also loves the good oil, and it has a good rust inhibitor in it, as it doesn't get driven much except in winter months. The gearbox was not happy with 30W synthetic oil, so put 1 qt. 30W dino oil with 1 pint of Lucas oil additive, shifts much better as synchros have some friction now to work. Rear diff has 75W-90 synthetic in it, leaks some out of pinion seal but that tells me it has oil in it.
My $0.02! Thanks for a good video!
Not convinced synthetic is right for my 60s and 70s flat tappet motors
Always liked the look of those 883R
One more thing, expanding on the oil leak idea. If your car has a minor leak with conventional oil, it can become a major leak with synthetic. So if you have an existing leak you may not want to switch over.
My old Mach One has no oil leaks. She does need zinc and phosphorus for her old cam & lifters. Modern oil, synthetic or not, doesn't have much of that.
Phuck they dyno. We go out cruising, mostly idling around town, not pulling dyno runs. I don't race minivans or crossovers.
In the early days of synthetic oil, it didn't swell rubber seals. Later esters were added to swell the rubber seals. Since GF-4 (GF-5, GF-6) seal swelling conditioner has been required in all GF-4 and newer oils.GF-3 didn't require it, but synthetic GF-3 oil got it to prevent seal leaks. I have had rubber seal leaks with Pennzoil Platinum, but switching to Mobil 1 stopped the leaks. Conventional oils swell rubber seals on their own, but since GF-4 also require seal conditioner. If an engine has a lot of miles with conventional oil, they would often leak if switched to synthetic oils. Mobil used to recommend against using Mobil 1 in engines with high mileage.
@@biggirlbathingsuits8210 Do oils for "high mileage" engines not have these qualities?
@@codyhatch4607 All American market oils are supposed to have these rubber seal conditioner qualities now, but apparently, some have more than others. For my 2 cars, Mobil 1 did a good job not leaking, where Pennzoil Platinum started both or them leaking, but switching back to Mobil 1 stopped the leaks. Maybe on a new engine you may not want the seals to swell as much, as they may wear more. For me, Mobil 1 was more practical.
Synthetic oils have additives to soften hard seals and gaskets so what you're saying is basically a myth
I found that valvoline VR1 racing oil 20w50 works really well and a 5 qrt bottle from amazon is a great deal !
$21 is what u just paid 7/22
@@caly5328 i had bought 3 5qrt jugs and a case of fram ultra synthetic oil filters i think i saved $90 over walmart and got free shipping !
It wasn't something I gave much thought to, till now. Thanks.
I'd love to see Scott from Cold War Motors get his hands on that rear quarter panel!
That's what I always think when I see a ding on a wing. Wonder why this chanel hasn't much more viewers.
It's not just the outer metal but the inner 'frame' unibody metal that's bent, as well..
@@BuzzLOLOL Yup.
That Charger door closes really nice and solid.
Tony is always a wealth of usable automotive knowledge. Thank you!!
Good job! I use synthetic (Mystik) after ring breakin. My 90 318 still had a rope seal.
I learned the hard way with my 1974 Ford 390. The rear main seal was originally rope, and at the end before the rebuild, it was gallons of oil. Also with the multi-piece FE intake gasket design, synthetic has too many ways to get through. This was 18 years ago, I was naive, but I plan to just go with conventional with the Ford FE from now on.
@ScottyGMusic ah I can't tell you enough that it's the error of perception on true synthetic oils. They don't cause leaks ever the oil reveals inherent issues of proper sealing and the ability of seals and gaskets that don't do their job whether or not it can or can't be the machined surfaces warping or just a sealing failure of the seal or gasket this problem was already their it's the oil that revealed it. Once you realise this and understand the best oil is true synthetics never will you ever justify using conventional over synthetic because if you do want your stuff to last as long as it can synthetic is always going to get you there.
@Jon-O. that is true, but then we could agree that the rope gasket is a design flaw. It was the best design available at the time, but I personally would not trust it to hold synthetic. There also could have been machining issues with the intake, like you say. I would then argue that the FE doesn't allow enough room for error to use that intake gasket design with synthetic, unless it was machined by a NASCAR team. I feel like I could maybe get away with using a blend, but I really don't want a waterfall of oil to force me to pay for another 390 rebuild, and my opinion on full synthetic remains. I use syn all the time in my newer car.
@Jon-O. I should also note that I am now using the 4-piece neoprene rear main seal, which is better; it is still a very unforgiving design. If there was even a microscopic burr in the channel, I believe that the synthetic would find a way through. That is, of course, only my opinion. So you make a good argument, and I have my own experience with it as well.
@@Jon-O. the other thing that Tony mentioned was the use of zinc for flat tappets. Unless someone empirically shows me otherwise, I will assume that the zinc additive throws the benefits of syn out the window. I would still be changing oil every 3000 miles. To be sure, roller tappets would fix this issue.
@@ScottyGMusic the zinc made up for the inability in conventional oils to leave a uniform film because of varying molecular structure and size. Something true synthetic PAO MPAO and Ester based stocks solved by chemically forming the Carbon and Hydrogen atoms in identical structure and size. Those Base stocks are manufactured not refined hence synthesized and the title synthetic. Where the group 4 and 5 base stocks originally came from. Not the fake synthetic group 3 stock today labeled synthetic which is a whole story onto itself. As far as impericale data there is all kinds of it to be sought out. So the question is not the data but the willingness of one to find it. I did. And countless other engine builders rodders and racers over the decades. The only reason auto manufacturers never endorsed true synthetic when it came out in the early 70s because they knew it would affect the very revenue of what they manufacture in future car sales because there not wearing out like conventional oils cause. Also why the development of true synthetic oil was commissioned by the military industrial complex and initially not the consumer market but Al Amatuzio specifically wanted to bring true synthetic oils to the consumer for automotive engines. Again a whole other story.
Yeah when I worked at Valvoline, we had a guy bring an 83' Chevy Scottsdale 305 V8 original motor nice, nice truck.
Ran perfect no problems with it ever.
They guy went straight to full synthetic without rebuilding the engine and/or getting the oiling system flushed.
500 miles later, motor locked up.
The oil pick-up screen was clogged with sludge.
The oil had broke down all the build up and destroyed the oil pump and starved the top end for oil.
Of which he of course blaming us and the synthetic oil! 😵🤦
think this is similar to a full flush using a flush machine for automatic transmission when the oil is very old. new detergent breaks down varnish and clog the valve body. for those cases I'd drop one edge of the pan and do a couple of partial changes every 6 months. when synthetic engine oil became popular, I switched by going with a blend for 2 changes before full synthetic.
@@thebluelunarmonkey Why don't auto trans have a drain plug? It's like a automatic transmission conspiracy? People would change it at suggested intervals, myself included, if it only had a drain plug.
@@codyhatch4607 Some do. newer vehicles have a tube that sticks up from the drain plug up to the top level of the fluid in the pan, this allows ATF to be pumped up and not over fill, this tube can be removed so the fluid can be drained.
Older cars, I guess it's expected to remove the pan, clean out the clutch debris from the bottom of the pan and replace the filter when doing a fluid change..?
@@thebluelunarmonkey Spin on filter for what is basically a hydraulic pump would be much simpler. If you have clutch 'debris' in your pan you have bigger problems.
@@codyhatch4607 Clutch debris is normal. You'll never know if you have little debris or "bigger problems" unless you drop the pan. With a spin on filter, you won't be able to see normal tiny black particles vs abnormal issues like steel or brass flakes or large pieces of clutch material. How do I express this to a non-mechanic - I guess the best analogy is looking at what's in the pan is akin to getting a blood test - it's going to either indicate a problem or look normal. And a normal indication can give a 'false negative' as there could be an issue that isn't reflected in what's sitting in the pan .
That’s nice of you to help out dan next year!what a great friend.
I had a 63 galaxie 390 that had a lifter ticking. Fresh, clean conventional 10w30. I did an oil change to Mobil 1, same weight. Ticking lifter was quiet within a minute.
I've used Castrol since the eighties and it's synthetic blend.... Very good results 10w30 and I raced my SBC with this oil. I use full synthetic in my more modern car...as per recommended. Good advice....
I remember using an oil additive prior to changing from conventional to synthetic, fuel mileage went up 1mpg! If you need zinc some synthetic oils offer this already added with the older car in mind. I love that Charger, let me know when you get tired of it.
Your mileage went up with the synthetic?
I Use conventional oil in my 383 stroker 20/50 when i first got it install in my k5 that's what the engine builder told me to use with Lucas zinc additive thought u was post to use break in oil now i use 15/50 Mobil 1 engine has 6k miles on it 5 year's running strong in this AZ heat
Love the Bitchin Charger! I remember exactly when the burnout happen in the parking lot. I learned what a counterweight is called - stove operator - no a Ballast. So funny........Everyone go watch that vidya - LYAO.
I had a 69 Camero with a307 that came with a 350 T hydro stock. But I got it second hand, or 3rd actually. After all the years of use t tranny finally gave up t ghost, and I found a scrapyard Muncie. It was time for another change and a brother hot rodder recommended that Crane Fireball 500 cam. WOW what a difference! With the gears to use and a new front end that car rocked.
My 1977 trans am with the 400, still had a rope style rear main seal as I remember.
We discovered this in 1988 when we ran an NHRA Pro Stock car. Our engine builder talked to us on our way to pick up the engine before heading to the race in Louisiana and told us to stop at a store and buy some Mobil 1. He had picked up 8 horsepower with the synthetic on the dyno. I seem to remember that it was 1060hp on conventional and 1068hp with the Mobil 1.
This is interesting advice. I continued using conventional oil in my older vehicles because of what you said in the beginning - those engines weren't designed for it. And I kept the oil changed frequently. But I can see why you could use synthetic oil in the older engines, at least if they've been broken in. I like the 66-67 Charger. That dash is awesome. And the bucket seats are nice. Funny how they were never as popular as the 68-70 Chargers.
Just an FYI, Royal Purple Synthetic oil, does have Zinc in their oil. Especially their HPS soulution. I've been using that in my 67 Dart 225 since I rebuilt her 6 years ago following your videos. Great oil.
My mustang had oil running down both sides the first time I tried synthetics. The only cork gaskets on it was the valve covers, and it was like they wasn't even there.
I had that with a customers 69 road runner, and he had aftermarket aluminum mopar valve covers, that cork was too thin for, and rubber was not wide enough. First start, was followed by 4 litres of oil pouring down the block and headers, I was fuming... after 3 warm up and cool downs, tightening it down bit by bit, it wasnt so bad anymore. However it was still leaking, just not gushing like b4. I shoulda known what im getting myself into, considering it had rtv silicone all around for a gasket....
And in an hour or two felpro perma-dry gaskets are in and your down the road
@@workingcountry1776 Yea. I switched the gaskets, but I also changed back to Rotella.
What a great thing to do for Dan & Dani! 🥰
I have been an AMSOIL dealer since 1975. Every vehicles from my Hemi Cuda to my 4 cylinder Turbo K-car. Check what they have on their site. They have Z oil for older vehicles with the chemicals needed. 1st in Synthetic in America.
Also, I have found that in high mileage cars that were run with conventional oil, synthetic oil is more likely to blow by the rings and valve seals.
I "ruined" an engine or two doing that. However now that I've gotten into building cars properly I've realized those "good" engines that shat out after switching to synthetic were already long gone.
I've been running rotella in lieu of synthetic on my 98 benz for 127k miles on 10k changes. Clean as a whistle. Runs the entire pizza shift. Great oil and it cooks off the bad crap
It's clean because it's a high detergent diesel oil
So smart Tony especially about the gaskets! Golly that solves so many mysteries! Thank you!
Great content sir. I don't run anything older than an early 90s 350, but I've almost always ran full synthetic and all of my engines go well over 200k before needing any kind of rebuild.
I’m using it in a 1968 440cu. In. And it works great. Also doesn’t float the valves over 6000rpm. Must use zinc additives.
Good video. Amsoil makes a synthetic oil called Z-ROD that has the extra zinc in it that classic car engines need.
We rebuilt a 1980s corvette 350, put it in my gmc pickup, used royal purple when braking in an just regular running, have not had any problems, probably 3k miles on it now. No problems, all cork gaskets
I remember applying shellac gasket sealer to cork gaskets it sealed very well for long time?
One correction: Amsoil's Z-Rod does have zinc! Other than that great video! I love your content!
I've learned that zinc and catalytic converters don't mix.
@@carlstephens1532 anyone who wants zinc in their oil hopefully isn't running cats, lol.
@@Born_Stellar you can run them but the life span in my experience with racing is shortened.
I only use Mobil 1. I tried Amsoil once and it was way to vicus. One oldtimer I knew used to add a pint of ATF to his motor oil in order to prevent sludge and varnish deposits. I think he was onto something since his engines ran great even when over 200,000 miles. Today oils get less fuel dilution because modern fuel injection is so efficient.
I have learned early on in my automotive career that there are 2 general type of gaskets used in the coolant systems of vehicles.
1 - is where the gasket absorbs and swells to seal
2 - a dry gasket that seals without penetration.
With that in mind, i was showed how to use and apply a thin coat of high tack sealant on the gaskets that absorb to seal.
Since that time, i have used it on paper and cork gaskets (except fuel), on my own engine rebuilds and not once suffured and leakage.
This might help in people who want to run synthetic oils after break in.
I noticed a difference in performance switching from synthetic to Valvoline VR-1 in my '66 289. Used to leak out the rear main seal like crazy but after a few hundred miles on VR-1 I haven't noticed any leaks whatsoever.
We aren't pulling dyno runs when we go out for a cruise. My 50 year old Mach One (351 Cleveland) is idling around town, not racing minivans.
I'm the last person to get a speeding ticket in the old girl so screw the dyno results. Our old engines need zinc and phosphorus.
the HUGE problem I've had with some synthetic oils running after market roller cams with high spring pressures is the lifter rollers slip on the cam itself and once the flat spots occur the engine self destructs pretty quickly. Over here in Australia there used to be a famous racer, who died a while ago, who was advertising a BIG NAME brand oil in the early days that was fully synthetic...well that BIG NAME brand pulled the ad off tv pretty quick once people started suing the AND WINNING as the ad was miss leading pretty much saying that any one could put this oil in ANY car and the older classics were flying apart... I'd say there's a lot more to this topic that needs to be explained and talked about. Love your work uncle Tony!
Oh, Tony said flat tappet but you say rollers too?
@@brandonlee8400 Oh most definitely yes!!! out of respect and also for legal reasons I wont mention who that VERY famous driver was in Australia but yeah if you look up a race here in Australia call "Bathurst" you'll work out who I''m talking about real quick and the do a quick search on what oil he spruiked and then see why they pulled the ad I think there will be a light bulb moment for you!
I love the old single cam engines, they were so durable. Once the overhead cams came in, so did the chain tensioner guides. That's the Achilles heel, especially lately. I actually have more trust in a dry cam belt. They're better than ever and fairly simple to change before they fail, plus you don't have to disturb secure gaskets. I currently have a Chevy 1.8, dual cam, 12 years old and 98k, that has never leaked a drop. The original timing belt shows no sign of wear or breakdown, but it's an interference engine so the belt has to be the next project.
My point is someone has to come up with a timing chain setup for multiple camshafts that doesn't require guides. That will be a huge breakthrough!
I have this one Chevy square body with a new GM Goodwrench low budget crate engine. It is a direct replacement TBI 350 with swirl port heads and a flat tappet camshaft. I run Valvoline VR1 Racing oil, which has a high content of zinc in it. I ran this and a zinc additive when I fired the engine up for the first time to break in the flat tappet cam.
One thing to keep in mind about a leaky rear main if you have a standard trans - if oil gets on the clutch, it will chatter fiercely.
“… it’s a rust preventative” 🤣🤣🤣. That’s a good one! I like that. Lol. I remember I think it was Carcraft or hot ride magazine years ago did an segment on synthetic oil. They did a Dino run with everything conventional, engine and transmission differential. Then they changed out the full synthetic on everything. And did another Dino run and I think they gained like 20 hp of the tires 15 hp? Something like that. I was pretty impressed. That’s what first turned me on the synthetic. And I like to use Amsoil Z rod, because it has zinc in it already. Good stuff!
Nice ol charger hope to see more on it soon
that was explained very well, I use Pennzoil platinum in my newer cars (Amsoil is also good), but my old hot rods get racing oil, I use VR1 just because it is easy to get I am sure there are other good brands out there
Also worth noting that people think synthetic is made of some weird stuff. It's not, it's the same crude, effectively filtered finely in order to create consistent sized longer hydrocarbon chains.
Conventional aka mineral is like a rope with various size knots. Try run that through a hole and the larger knots stop it going through a leak hole, also helps swell the cork which helps create the seal. Synthetic is like a rope with uniform sized knots along it, which is partly why it circulates more easily.
There's more to it but fundamentally those are some of the key differences, mainly... They're still made from the same base oil.
Keep up the great content. BTW, NICE Charger!
This is interesting Tony... One of the reasons the Germans developed synthetic oils in WW2 , is because of the limited supply of petroleum products that were available to them at that time... The same reason that oils from castor beans were also used to supply lubrication for machinery, to have options besides petroleum based lubricants. There are advantages and dis-advantages to the use of both, synthetic and petroleum based oils.... The reason that Jet aircraft use synthetic oils in their turbine engines is because of the high heat that these oils have to endure to properly lubricate the bearings of the turbine spool shafts... Synthetic oils do well with that high heat...And the grease used to lubricate the various areas that need grease to be shot into the dzerk fittings, on many types of planes is synthetic based, because it works well with low temperatures, which is what the planes have to frequently deal with...However, the piston engined planes, usually are running petroleum based oils with zinc powder in the body of the oil... Mainly because these engines have higher specific loading of surface areas that the turbine engines don't have, like camshafts, lifters, rocker arms, pushrod ends, valve tips... The zinc laden petroleum oils can withstand higher surface pressures because of their higher film strength... Especially true with the single - 'straight' viscosity oils... Another advantage of petroleum oils is their tendency to leak less, and petroleum oils resist corrosion much better than what synthetics can do... And there are surprising amounts of moisture that build-up inside of engines that cool-down in humidities that are above 30% because of the natural phenomenon of condensation...And petroleum oils cost less, so the owners would be more apt to change their oil & filters more frequently, which really can lead to very long and reliable engine and other component life... It is one of the reasons my 350 Chevy V8 has lasted more than 500k miles in my '77 GMC p/u... Clean, 15W-40 Mineral Oil being used with Rislone & Bosch oil filters... Changed every 4-5k miles... That engine & heads have never been out of that truck... I know this, as I'm the second owner, my sister was the original owner... 15W-40 Rotella & Bosch filters for my vehicles..
I've run Mobil 1 5W30 in my '81 Pontiac Trans Am since the early 90's . its amazing how clean the internal components are and no I do long extended oil change intervals. Pulled the distributor out of it and there was absolutely zero varnish on it. easy to pull apart. Yes, it does sweat a little but that engine was put together in the early 90's and althugh it used to be cammed with something with an advertised operating range of 2500 to 6000 ( give or take it now has the 350HP/327 cam in it. no flat tappet lobe rounding syndrome. On the other hnd my truck started experiencing flat lobe syndrome and noise from a package installed somewhere around 2009 . Lasted 20-30,000 miles before it failed. the replacement cam and lifters didn't survive the breakin. The 3rd cam is a retrofit roller. 5W30 Mobil 1 . over the years they have been removing the zinc package from that oil. I am scared to change oil in my T/A . That engine will get a retrofit roller. But you know what they say about Chevys, if there is no oil under it, there is no oil in it. My small blocks are both gen0 ( aka 2 piece rear main seals ) Leak like seive.
I only use Fel-Pro gaskets. rubber and their special paper gaskets. I have been using synthetic blend Valvoline motor oil because have Ford's. and some Ford's have an issue with oil foaming. and Valvoline has an additive to reduce oil foaming. I have used Fel-Pro gaskets and Valvoline motor oil for many years. and I haven't had any issues. and the engines stay pretty clean and dry. but keep pretty strict oil change intervals of about 3500 miles between oil changes.
several years ago i talked to a chemist that works for Lucas Oil he also drives mopar older cars he runs a synthetic conventional blend he uses the Lucas 15W40 blend he said that is the best of both worlds. i personally run Shell Rotella 15W40
I love that Charger it's gritty!
This is a big rabbit hole here. In fact it wasn't until relatively recently that group 3 base stock was allowed to be legally labeled as synthetic. Synthetic oils in general have a primary advantage by having extremely consistent lengths of hydrocarbon chains. So they will be resistant to changes in viscosity, oxidation, and varnish. Over time, key point. A 30W non-synthetic might meet the same viscosity tests but will actually be an aggregate of various chain lengths. This makes it vulnerable to breakdown or failing to meet the specs of a 30W. Now that's just the base oil. The real gravy is in the additive package that goes along with it. This is where you get into oils designed to perform a specific purpose. So, if you find a synthetic that outperformed on the dyno it's more likely the additive package did it than the abilities of synthetic by itself. To say otherwise would require a simulation of load over time with regular sampling and analysis.
only some mineral oil have SJ racing.
That is not a law or legality.What happened was Amsoil started selling Group 4 oil in the early 1970's for $40 a quart. A few years later Mobil started selling a Group 3 oil for $5.50 a quart. Amsoil lowered their price and later Mobil started selling Group 4 oil. Pennzoil bought Quaker State and they were using Group 4 oil. Shell had developed a cheaper method to make Group 3 oil. Shell then bought Pennzoil along with Quaker State. Castrol was buying synthetic oil base stock from Mobil. Shell offered Group 3 for less money, so Castrol switched from Mobil to Shell for their synthetic oil. Mobil took Castrol to industry arbitration, not court, in 1999. Mobil didn't dispute Group 3 wasn't synthetic, but disputed Shell's lower cost method to make it actually resulted in Group 3 oil. After 2 years of arbitration, Mobil conceded that Group 3 refined by Shell's newer method did qualify as Group 3 synthetic oil. In 2007 and 2008, Mobil filed 2 patents for the improvement in synthetic motor oil, by blending Group 3 and Group 4 oil. There wasn't any dispute about Group 3 being synthetic oil or calling it synthetic oil, but there was arbitration about the lower cost method Shell uses to make Group 3 synthetic oil. Mobil lost a lot of big customers to Shell, as Shell could make and sell synthetic oil base stock cheaper than Mobil could. Shell licensed their method for making synthetic oil to Canada and Korea. Shell was going to build a new refinery in the US to make their natural gas based synthetic oil, which is another one of Shell's Group 3 oils, but determined at the time, it would be cheaper to just continue to import it from their refinery in Kuwait. The original Mobil 1 in the 1970's was Group 3.
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There is no such thing as 30W; you mean SAE 30.
@@georgewetzel4380 Oil police?
Uncle! Secret here is disolving some silicon sealant (I use the clear one, 100% silicone) on some gasoline and give cork seals a bath. It seals and work wonderfully
Tony, I need to know how to check out your friends' channels, what are they called? I'm interested in knowing what they have to say.
I've been a Ford guy and in the trade for over 50 years. I find it refreshing to hear and see what you have to offer because it's not about GM and Chevys in particular. Not everyone is interested in those damned things. Thanks for producing an excellent automotive channel that gives out good info primarily on Mopar, (Chrysler products). You know of which you speak.
You check out my channel at
th-cam.com/users/UnityMotorSportsGarage
In my 69 440 I use 15w40 (for diesels) . I have 10,000 miles on it and it leaks like it should
I had the 454 in my 72 Monte Carlo rebuilt. We ran break in oil for 3k miles then changed it to amsoil high zinc classic car oil and it’s smooth as glass.
What’s the oil viscosity you used?
1970s holden v8. Chewed cams with conventional oil. Synthetic never had a problem. Oil leaks with cork gaskets? Never an issue.
just smoked the bong
Tony or you
TT hee hee
this
Sweet medication 👍
@@dionrau5580 ... for idiots.
Tony is a wealth of knowledge. Always good content.
That is as really nice to tell d d speed shop to fly down and drive your car that’s really great