Viscosity Breakdown: The Silent Engine Killer Revealed!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- Just like the old Castrol GTX ads, you want to avoid viscosity breakdown because when your viscosity breakdown, your engine can breakdown.
Viscosity is the most important characteristic of a lubricant, and there is a direct correlation between viscosity and wear - when viscosity breaks down, wear increases. We've demonstrated that in our past two videos:
20W-50 vs 5W-20: Which Oil Protects Better?
• 20W-50 vs 5W-20: Which...
What Adding BOOST Did Do To Our Motor Oil (NA vs BOOST Test)
• What Adding BOOST Did ...
We also see that in the thousands of used oil samples we've analyzed. But here's the thing, not all oils shear and breakdown the same. Some oils breakdown quickly and significantly, but other oils barely breakdown. In this video, we will demonstrate viscosity breakdown in the lab, and show you the results.
For more about Oil Analysis, check out: www.speediagno...
To learn about viscosity grades, check out this video: • The "W" DOESN'T Stand ...
To shop for HPL products: www.hplubrican...
To shop for Castrol products: amzn.to/3VWeNPA
To shop for Mobil 1 products: amzn.to/3XDmf38
Who is the @themotoroilgeek ? I'm a Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers Certified Lubrication Specialist and Oil Monitoring Analyst (I've maintained both of those for over a decade). I also worked for Joe Gibbs Racing for 12 years as their lubricant specialist. During that time, we worked with Wix Filters (one of our sponsors) to test and develop filters for our race engines. We also worked with Lubrizol and Chevron-Phillips Chemical to test and develop oils for our race cars. Following that, I was the head of R&D for Driven Racing Oil. During that time, I formulated and tested over 50 products. We also worked with Cummins, Comp Cams, Oak Ridge National Labs and General Motors on various R&D products. Those efforts are recorded in peer reviewed white papers published by SAE International and ACS Sustainable Chemistry journals. I also own and operate SPEEDiagnostix, which provides used oil analysis.
As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases That just means that I may earn a small commission, at no cost to you, if you choose to purchase that product from Amazon.com. It is a way to help support the work of The Motor Oil Geek.
#oilchange #motoroil #oilfilter #engine #dynotested #syntheticoil #Turbocharged #supercharged #boost #motoroil #engine #viscosity #BMW #Subaru - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Whoever came up with that test is a genius. Almost perfectly simulate real world shear in 15 min with only 20mls
*20ml
@@cluelessbeekeeping1322 *20mL ...for the S.I. enthusiasts
real world is driving & how many miles before you change your oil.. not lab rat tests.. i owned a ford bronco, weighs 3t. just sold after 21 yrs. it has 12.1 compression, runs on lpg only, work vehicle, 4x4 driven, thrashed, never a problem, std oil 20/50, changed every 3 months ish. regardless of usage.. only prob i had was 2 ignition coils, $54. each.. moral to this story. CHANGE YOUR FKN OIL, BEFORE TIME..& filter, same time. do it yourself, dont trust mech,s..
@@harrywalker968 two similar engines operated in different conditions will experience different levels of wear.
ime, 2006 4.8L GMC engine, extended oci based on oil analysis. proper compression at ~300k, mostly city miles stop and go...
modern oils (and tires) have improved substantially, there is no need to change the oil based on 'old schedules'.
@@harrywalker968 is hand tight good enough for oil filter?
I am glad that you are demonstrating tests like this to the public. There are too many people that thinks that a bearing running through a small amount of oil on youtube channels know what they are talking about. You truly know what you are talking about. I appreciate the knowledge.
Never saw another video made by somebody who actually knows the oil chemistry down to the molecular level. He says not just the effects but why they are like that.
@robertmaybeth3434 yesss!!! Lake is awesome at describing EVERYTHING!! I know the guy at project farm is doing the best that he can with what knowledge that he has, but he can be seriously misleading a consumer on information that doesn't replicate what oil will see in an engine
carful he has saved many people thousands. he also admits "its just useful info"
It would be awesome if you did an off the shelf oil championship (project farm style) with true lab equipment. You know with brands like Pennzoil, Motul, Mobile 1 etc...
LOL - Todd from PF would love to have access to lab equipment that Lake has ... Todd has a freezer, laser and bearing tester....
@@chuntzinger677 He does have a pretty good results with "home-grown" testing rigs that he is using
Dont forget the coffeepots on hotplates! I love todd
@@franklinvanproosdij ah, yes, I forgot those ....
That is what we want
you validated what a lot of us shade tree engineers figured out why the early N20 BMW engines were having problems with failures. BMW dealers were reccomending stupid 15,000 mile oil changes to avoid giving free oil changes during the first 3 years. 100% if you like your car you send samples to blackstone labs and find out what your vehiclewants for oil changes.
Changing a good synthetic at 7500 or less miles stopped a lot of people in the N20 engines from having problems. Moral of the story, The manufacturer and dealer dont know crap about servicing your car, get actual lab results to tell you what you need to do for oil change intervals.
I have changed my oil in a 5 valve twin turbo V6 motor every 3000 miles with 100% synthetic oil and have never ever had a problem with the engine that was traceable to the oil! ! !
Of course they know 10-15k intervals are bad ideas. However their marketing have devised a sales tactic to convince and incentivize customers that they can go 15k before oil changes.
As an n20 owner and bmw tech I can agree the extended oil change interval mixed with poor timing chain guide material caused majority of the issues. BMW themselves recommended that interval and all the dealers had to abide by it for warranty maintenance but ask any tech who was around when that came out and they’ll tell you what a bad idea it was. Still today the most frequent Intervall I see is 5k on some m cars, other than that it’s all between 8-13. Oils cheaper than engines…
Honda is now using a percentage # when an oil change is due. My daughter had just put 5k miles on her new 2024 Honda and the oil percentage was at 60%, the dealership refused to change her oil under her oil change contract. I was so pissed I couldn't see straight. We changed the oil on our own and didn't reset the oil change interval in the computer, it's a secret between my daughter and I...
@@losertown2785
Of course we are curious to see ‘what changed’ in the Mobil One oil…. We are here because we are very curious on this subject 👍
I'm also very curious about the Mobil 1 Euro 5W-40. Where I live, I have no need for a 0W rated oil and would prefer the presumably better shear stability of the 5W.
Great stuff🎉🎉🎉@@averyalexander2303
Full spectrum pac. 5,, AT 5. W. 50.. IS GREAT STUFF. HARD TO FIND. MOLY. AMSOIL,, HAS THEM❤❤🎉🎉
I love the analysis, but you really need to do a summary at the end that includes the results and guidance. not necessarily recommendations, but overall guidance in selecting, or deciding between motor oils.
Watch his seminar with Porsche club of America and he says pick your oil that meets manufacturer spec
Love your Channel Lake! This Topic Had me THINKING "WHAT HAPPENS 2 VISCOSITY when an ENGINE gets Fuel into the OIL?" MY girl has a Japanese small suv that is 1.5 liter Direct injected Turbo and it has FUEL in OIL ISSUE. I CAN SMELL IT ON DIPSTICK! So I'm thinking how often like sooner do I need to b changing going oil?
Or does it evaporate out? But then y can I smell it? (The gas smell in oil).😊😮😮 Thnx 4 all the good SCIENCE!
@@bigdaddymak1439 The manufactuers are recommending very low grade oil now days like 20 - 16 - 8 weight oils. These are like Winter Grade Oils for cold starting purposes.
If the oil shears down a grade then the 8 weight oil will be a 4 weight.
We come to a point where how thin can one go before the engin seizes up?
@@natehess7663 Fuel makes the viscosity go down. It's not good!
@@natehess7663Honda CRV? Teach her to Turn off the Automatic start-stop because that's the cause of it! Programming error from Honda where they run a little too rich on each startup and it washes into the oil, I think they had a recall where they would reprogram it and correct the funky time 👍
Yes - please make a video discussing the M1 0W40 formula change as you mention.
Include a 5w/40 if they make one.
Ditto!!!
Yes very interested in European specific oils for my Mercedes and the API SP
@@TexasRiverRat31254 they do...will basically perform like the Castrol 5W40 in the video.
M1 European is available in both 0w40 and 5w40@@TexasRiverRat31254
We all love learning about shear strength. I'm sure everyone would love to see a test of a bunch of off the shelf oils go through the test to see which ones are most shear stable, especially people who run their engines hard.
This is such an awesome channel with such great information. It’s SOOO difficult to find good information about oils as a consumer, and bringing this level of information to the non-scientist is freaking amazing. Thank you!
You are so welcome!
David Stobber always looks like he’s been called out for an answer in school by the professor. He always comes through but the stress is visible. Good job David!
I agree. Reminds me of me. Good job David.😊
Pobably doesn't help that the host seems like he's on some sort of amphetamine. Love the info from motor oil geek, but the delivery can be a little intense. Somehow I feel like it's the 80's again.
dexatrim buzz😅
@@RICKGRIMM-de9gv Motor Oil Geek needs to lay off the full strength coffee. A little decaf might do his blood pressure some good and help his sleep. His intro and exit music needs more classical 😎 and less heavy metal . 😈
David is stressed because Lake is hyper, and when he asks David a question he won't shut up long enough for David to give an answer. I would probably have to walk away from Lake in that situation, it would just be too annoying, so I give David a lot of credit for standing there and waiting for Lake to take a breath, so David can try to jump in with the answer.
I remember when I bought my Supra and asked the dealer about break-in procedures. The guys said people usually just get on these immediately so I don’t know. Then he told me about 10k recommended change intervals. I promptly took over service responsibility from then on 😂
I have a 2006 Honda Accord with 433,000 miles on it. I change the oil every 10k miles. It uses about a quart of oil every 7k miles. At about 250,000 miles I switched from 5w-20 to 20w-30.
Sorry I meant 10w-30 not 20w-30.
10k is fine only if you have top tier oil. 10k is bad if you use crappy junk oil.
@@jason200912 I buy standard Pennzoil, not synthetic. Lots of fleet services have tried synthetic oil and it's never been shown to cause better outcomes. That's the real issue. Can synthetic oil, or short oil change intervals, be shown to cause better outcomes in service. I have not seen evidence to say that it does except for engines with oil cooled turbo chargers.
@@jeffrey1312 why not switch to 5w 30? Why did you switch to a thicker oil when it is cold out? I can understand going to a 30 weight from a 20 for when it is warm. But by going from a 5w to a 10w, you now have thicker oil on cold starts, which can't be good.
Love this channel. So much stuff on TH-cam is crap but this show is worth every minute. Thanks Lake
My cat loves project farm too
Love the data. Glad you are doing this.
Still not convinced to switch from Amsoil.
Used Amsoil for 230k miles on my 2007 Volvo LPT S60 and no leaks, no burning of oil, no oil loss, period.
What grade is it?
@@fidelcatsro6948 signature series 0W 20
Do not switch from Amsoil to Mobil 1....Amsoil will run circles around M1 !!!!! I've got oil analysis to prove it...
I have a 97 Dodge cummins with 397,000 on her, have used amsoil in engine, 5 speed manual trans, transfer, front and rear diff, Runs perfect with perfect compression no leaks, no burning! I even use there power steering fluid and brake fluid.. Awesome product!! Thanks Lake!
@@LTDan-pk3mx what grade you use?
Im an MLT1 technician by day, and a car enthusiast by night. Im so glad I just stumbled on this channel.
So bottom line keep your oil changed, and don't go 10,000 miles between changes
I go 60,000, but it isn't my engine. I'd probably go fifteen or twenty thousand if it was.
@@jarradschiff4202 what engine is in your semi?
@@bobbylongtoes Probably a Tesla😊
It's a Paccar MX-13. Holds 10½ gallons of oil, so there's quite a bit of oil for heat and contaminants to disperse into.
@@jarradschiff4202 🐻
I guess it has an oil cooler also?
The enthusiasm and knowledge of both gents was a pleasure to watch. Also, as a scientist, the test laboratory was a joy to behold. So tidy and well equipped. Marvellous.
Thanks!
Great explanation Lake! That Castrol ad was a real throwback.
Hey! It's the upsidedown oil guy!
That was like last year wasn’t it? 😂👴
Yeah, time flies doesn't it? 😁. You must be about 66 years old? 🫣 @@BeefNEggs057
Slipped my mind.
@@BeefNEggs057
Time sure does fly by! 🤔😁🧓
Newer gasoline engines (such as Lake's daughter's Corolla) are using lower viscosity oil. A video on 0W-20 or 5W-20 stability or the new 0W-8 would be very helpful.
And the exact same Toyota engines in Asia/Oceania use 5w30 and even 5w40. Because in USA they have to adhere to stupid CAFE standards.
Explain. I don’t think any of us mine going with what works.
Yes, a comparison of engine wear in a Honda or Toyota using 0W-20 vs 5W-30 would be great. We know the 0W-20 is all about reducing internal fluid drag for a tiny decrease in fuel consumption, to please the government. It would be nice to know how much engine life we're giving up by sticking with the lighter oil.
What about a N/A Mazda based direct injected 2.0 duratec Ford engine in a Ford EcoSport? Ford manual Recommends 5W-20 and an option for 0W-20 in winter. The problem is that this engine dilutes the oil with fuel quite badly. I have nowhere far to go and limited money so I can't just drive far away all the time to evaporate the fuel out of it. I simply don't have the money to go that far. So, I have to short trip. I can't afford a better oil than maybe a $26 five quart jug of Mobil 1's EP oil. I definitely CAN afford a couple of Super Tech 'synthetic' changes every year. Was thinking ST's 10W-30 in warm months, and their 5W-20 in MI winter. Both of those oils have LESS polymer viscosity improvers. More base oil. The closer the winter number is to the summer number, the more the stable base oil there is in it.
I realize 10W-30 is pushing the limits of the VVT, but would very much like to try it. I don't care about the fuel mileage. It already gets bad mileage for a tiny Fiesta based SUV anyway. Any thoughts?
@@Shadows-RCdon’t get a gas guzzler then complain about not being able to afford gas to travel far
Another phenomenal episode. As someone who was in the industry for many years, I have spent a lot of time formulating and reviewing used on analysis. It’s also not only about the new oil, quality of composition and oil durability is even more important. Another on point demonstration with all of these videos.
So glad to see HTHS being properly discussed. I cannot disclose my exact field due to work rules but it is the property that we consider most when selecting oil to validate the automotive part we manufacture.
And I had lunch with Ronald Reagan on the moon….
"I'm under NDA but I can disclose I'm under NDA!" I'll take things that didn't happen for 500, Alex.
BRO
This is also how I select my motor oil so I think they are onto something!
HTHS is the most common (nontraditional) spec I see for European motor oil wear protection for those vehicles. OP’s company likely makes an oil lubricated part for one of the major OEMS who have specific HTHS requirements. Doesn’t sound off at all
Good information for the unknowing. Wide range oils with heavy modifiers do shear. But most people don't know what an HT/HS spec is and don't look for it. Some manufacturers are now omitting it (hiding it?) from the PDS and stating "we met the xxx.xx spec", which tells us little of where they were in that spec's range. They cleared a bar - that's all we know.
What would be _very_ useful is these same shear tests run on a dozen popular oils in each of the 0W-40, 5W-30, and 5W-40 stated ranges. Perhaps with their HT/HS specs to provide some correlation. That would get us around the information shortcomings from the manufacturers.
If he did that, his career would be pretty much over.
@@TonicofSonic :-)
Yes, I want to know what changed. I've used M1 0w-40 in my BMW for 24 years. Going strong.
M1 has several new formulas: th-cam.com/video/vwqIdFeP_1c/w-d-xo.html
Dear Mr. Oil Geek, there isn't a time when I don't learn from watching your videos. Thank you for sharing with us your knowledge
What have you learned? Nothing. You will continue to use your regular oil.
@@Stanjara none of your fkn business Pajiiit
Mazda RX-8 is a good example.
Mazda decided to change the engine's viscosity to 5W-30 for fuel efficiency reasons, but the bearings for the rotors and eccentric shaft were designed in the 1960's for 20W-50.
The result was that you'd rarely see an engine that lasted longer than 60,000 miles that hadn't worn it's bearings away and thrown a rotor tip seal around it's casing when they collapsed.
Ironically, they get much better on-road mpg when run on 20W-50 once they've warmed up. I rebuilt mine after all of this happened to me, it's proven.
You really need to show the charts more, a lot more. Quit worrying about having your face on and give us the charts with your mouse pointer so it will be easier to understand all the material.
Noted
@@themotoroilgeekIf you’re open to to constructive criticism, as you appear to be, I would add…talk a little less and/or slower, let your guests talk more. JMHO, and I’m not a TH-camr, much less one with 100k subscribers, so I don’t have any claim to any expertise in this.
That aside, very informative, glad I clicked and watched this.
@@geoffstrickler Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate you watching.
The pause button lets you look at the charts in detail.
@2pist that's besides the point he's trying to make. The point is that not all of us know whats on the chart means. You can hit pause all day long but it doesn't mean anything if you don't know what you're looking at.
Yes, I would like to see what's changed in the Mobil 1 0W40 API-SP.
Concur.
3rd this
Mi Si!!!
Less calcium, more magnesium to prevent the pre ignition on moder direct injection engines.
Yes
Yes, please make a video about what changed in the formula for Mobile 1
Yes, Please DO! I can hardly wait! 👍
Yes Agreed and i wonder what happened with the SP rating, another vid on this would be great.
It would be better if he makes a video about AMSOIL.
@@iFanchi AMEN! Snake oil? 🤔🤥
@@riceburner4747
Hardly. Excellent basestock and additive package
My father used to do this kind of work decades ago, mostly on military lubricants. Some of the stories I heard (those not wrapped up in military secrets...) were illuminating. He would swear by Castrol GTX over competitors back in the '70s and '80s - it wasn't all advertising hyperbole (though this was back in the days when synthetic oils were just a geek pipedream and normal people put up with old-fashioned mineral oils, so overall standards weren't so high).
The one thing that has never changed is that lubricant manufacturers and car makers have different ideas about how often oil should be changed. Take whatever the car maker says and double that frequency (at minimum), is a good rule of thumb.
The military lubricant horror stories mostly concerned cost-cutting, the arrogance of officers who thought they were in charge (because technically they were in charge of the pieces of metal that used the lubricants), plus high-level Civil Service decision-making where technical evaluation results would be disregarded because a decision had already been made. For instance, sample bottles of a pretty glittery black liquid that had come out of Tornado fighter jet engines: my father's lab had recommended against using a particular additive in particular circumstances and what did he find in this pretty glittery sample, but decomposition products of this particular additive. No no no, we were told to use this, said the Air Force... except that it was meant for tank engines, not jet engines and somebody high up in the Ministry had rubberstamped sharing a particular lubricant between the Army and the Air Force in order to get a better price. Oops. This was decades ago - probably safe to mention now because we can be confident that the Armed Forces never ever cut corners nowadays....
Thanks for sharing!
Amsoil was the world's first synthetic oil to receive a certification from the API in 1972 and Mobil 1 was released in 1974. Back in the 70's and early 80's after trying several mineral oils, I determined that Castrol 10W-40 was the king and I became a faithful consumer for a number of years. Then I began to experiment with different brands of full synthetics, until I found a 100% synthetic (Amsoil) that I assessed it to be superior to the full synthetics and I have used exclusively Amsoil for the past 20 years.
Thank you all for your time and effort bringing us this video.
Great video as usual ! Waiting for the Valvoline Restore and Protect update.
I've always used Redline if I need deep cleaning. Probably one of the best cleaning oils on the market.
In the words of Michael Scott, explain it to me like I'm a six year old. I love your videos but this one left me with my eyes glazed over.
Sorry about that.
@@themotoroilgeekI 2nd that one. 😂
I agree with you. I have an Audi A4 turbo and an F150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost twin turbo. I've read multiple recommendations for each vehicle and know both engines are prone to engine wear and seizure if they don't have proper lubrication.
@@DavidSmith-fs4ntI have 3 Audi's, 2 have the 1.8T the other is a 2.0T, I've used T6 diesel oil, Liqui-moly and Castrol Edge all 5w40. Never had any issues with any of those oils and while I'm not very proud of it, I've went about 12K mile on my 1.8T. I drive it upward of 200 miles a day so if I'm not paying attention it happens. I pulled the engine at 230k miles from a bad head gasket, and put a built engine in.
@@themotoroilgeek I say, don’t dumb it down. Your knowledge wasn’t acquired easily. It also forces us to learn something, rather than have everything presented to us on a silver platter. If we want to be educated consumers, learning is necessary.
Here is the way I look at the entire topic of engine oil and maintenance intervals. Most vehicles these days represent a significant percentage of the average persons annual expense vs income. This would be second only to their home. If my house needs a new roof, I'm not just going to put the cheapest material I can find on it, installed by someone that doesn't have a reputation or body of work that expresses quality. Same thing when we choose an oil for our vehicle, do your research and buy a trusted brand (or just have the dealer do it if you cannot be bothered.) Then do your maintenance often to protect your investment (AKA, don't always just do what the MFG recommends at a minimum.) Your investing in reliability and long term protection at a relatively small expense over time on both fronts.
I love content like this that helps me make smart decisions on the maintenance of my vehicle! Thanks for the great video, Lake!
Yep, I shall be having my fourth oil & filter change since April 2023 in my 2023 ES300h next week at around 15,000 miles on the clock. I am switching to Idemitsu motor oil (Idemitsu IFG5 0W-16) made specifically for Japanese vehicles with a Highflow Performance Brand Oil filter (2023 Lexus ES300h Oil Filter PG4476EX).
I have a Euro Turbo diesel. Manufacturer recommends 15,000 mile oil changes. Service manager recommends 5000 miles. I do the 5000 mile changes between dealership services.
Sticker on Transmission says - sealed for life. Service manager says - change every 50,000 miles or 40,000. I do the change myself.
Who can believe manufacturer recommendations these days. Are they written by the marketing office or the engineering departments?
@@lezivanerrol3697Turbos destroy oil. This is known for over 50 years. People don’t realize it because they think that the car maker wouldn’t steer them wrong. They don’t realize the loss of performance over mileage, and start-stop intervals, is from turbo wear. Maybe they get a hint when the turbo goes out between 50k to 100k miles. Do lab tests at oil changes to measure the effect. It appears most modern cars have small engines with one or two turbos. This is a money maker for shops.
@@lezivanerrol3697 Auto engineers always specify short oil change intervals. Auto marketing teams always cross out the engineer's figures and multiply them by 3.
@HalesYeahWorks - You are absolutely correct. It's penny wise and pound foolish to use cheap oils in an engine worth thousands and thousands of dollars. -- 31 year independent AMSOIL synthetic lubricants Dealer.
In my best sarcastic voice...Thanks, now I gotta watch this about 10 more times! Because, like you, I don't like to trust, I like to test. You have the knowledge that will help me understand this better. Thank you Lake, job well done❤
I'm always motivated by Lake's enthusiasm. Thanks for the video.
So Lake, I guess the real question is what brands are using "what" in their different oils. Are you going to tell us that part? Thanks again for a very interesting/thought provoking video.
Wally, that’s like the KFC secret recipe, we ain’t gonna get it
@@joemikey278 So we're still basically just as much in the dark now as we were before the video. Neat info, but not exactly useful in anyway other than the production of annoyance and anxiety.
@@kleetus92 correct :)
i watch this type of content as a passing time activity... it's super educational that they encourage ppl to test their oils so they know how it behaves in the given driving conditions but splitting hairs like this video does has zero real life applications.
firstly engineers know all these behaviors of oils when they call for a certain type and secondly as proof, engines really last a long time these days. i don't know any racers but none of my friends got to experience an engine failure be it cars or bikes.
ps: a few decades ago working in my uncle's auto-mechanic shop, replacing piston rings, bearings and all that was way more common than these days... now they're basically doing maintenance outside the engines 90% of times. the other 10% they're dealing w/ freak accidents like cooling system failure, broken belts, etc, that cause engine damage... as i understand it, engine wear is way down the list w/ modern engines and oils.
@@duroxkilo I would tend to agree with that except for chain tensioners chewing through, cam phasors doing stupid shit on a regular basis, and in the case of mobil 1 engines drink it like it's tasty beverage.... which was the main reason I switched away from M1 and went to Castrol and LiquiMoly... they don't need topped off once or twice before an oil change.
@@kleetus92 i/m not sure i understand how an engine consumes a certain brand of oil but not another... all oils evaporate when heated up but the difference between brands is rather insignificant. some engines do consume oil from factory, i don't know what exactly happens when an oil brand apparently 'fixes' that...
to 'shred' oil substantial pressure is required. i don't think chains and tensioners present that sort of stress, that's not where the torque/pressure is applied. (as it was shown in the video, the testing device applies about half a tone of pressure in order to shred the polymers)
if that were the case, the transmission of a motorcycle (most imports use the same oil for the gearbox and clutch) would 'destroy' oils. but that's not really the case according to oil analysis. even older generation oils (most bike oils are API SM) maintain viscosity to satisfactory levels.
my v-twins measure basically factory compression and mpg after a few trips around the globe worth of miles. the oci were extended based on the analysis of used oil. so that extra heat and lots of 'shredding gears' are still not able to degrade oils that aren't used in cars for more than a decade now... the engine wear is minimal to non-existent.
anyways i responded because you mentioned anxiety and my point is ppl tend to stress about oils for no reason.
test the oil, test the engine compression, watch the mpg (signs of engine wear) and it's fairly easy to realize stressing over oils is mostly unwarranted.
racers have a different approach because those engines operate at their limits and sometimes beyond on a regular basis. for those applications engine components are consumables w/ a rather short lifespan. a daily driver engine has a very cozy life hence their longevity these days...
Excellent video indeed! I hope in the future you do some testing for the classic car community. Conventional oil like Shell Rotella T-4 15W-40 with its high zinc rating is popular and there are similar oils. Would like to see how they compare.
I agree with you 100%
Nerd Alert! Lol, I love it.
Can you do a video to explain API SP versus Dexos certification?
Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Video’s like these can never be too nerdy for me. 🤓❤
I spent a lot of time researching oil spec sheets, so happy to have The Motor Oil Geek to put some perspective from the real world onto these documents.
I have learned so much from your channel, I never really thought much about the properties of oil. Based on your testing and the way it works in my Ram, I'm a Pennzoil Ultra Platinum user. I wish the stores stocked or could get it, for the mean time I get it shipped from Amazon.
I bought some Ultra Platinum at Advance Auto 2 weeks ago.
Outrageous price here. Only one store carries it.
My Mazda 2.5 gas mileage increased by 2 miles/gal. after switched from Castrol Edge to Ultra Platinum. That oil is something special in my opinion. I never exceed 4,000 between oil changes. Yes, Amazon is also my source.
@@DanielJackson-f4t - What is significant about 4,000 miles? Changing oil excessively can cause engine wear. The only benefit to changing an oil often is to the bank accounts of the mega-rich big oil companies. -- 31 year independen4t AMSOIL synthetic lubricants Dealer.
rmduda1 - How much experience does Pennzoil has in formulating synthetic motor oils? -- 31 year independent AMSOIL synthetic lubricants Dealer.
This was an awesome megageek overload 🤓. So who has the secret decoder ring to tell us which major brands likely use which VI additives?
You can trust Amsoil to use ONLY the best ingredients in their top oils
Love my Mobil 1. All I use in my vehicles, mowers, trimmers, in different viscosities, they never fail. API SP rated is a must in GDI engines, helps remove fine traces of soot, and makes an excellent gun cleaning oil in a needle oiler, too! I also save some of the used Mobil 1 for the bar on my hedge trimmers, works great.
What grade?
@@fidelcatsro6948 0w20 (GM Truck, Gun Cleaning with needle oiler), 5w30 (GMC SUV), 15w40 (Mowers), and 20w50 (Harley Davidson). For Hedge Trimmer Bar, I use old 5W30.
If it calls for a SAE30 I’d stick with that.
@@fidelcatsro6948 On my hedge trimmers, the old used Mobil 1 Oil I prefer is Syn 5w30. I apply it before and after trimming. Currently I don't use straight 30 in anything.
This video is definitely the deep end of the pool stuff.
One thing that may help us newbies, is if there were a range or number next to the values. Kinda like lab results from my doctor. For example LDL Cholesterol level for men should be optimally < 100MG/dl (less than 100 Milligrams per deciliter.)
I stopped at the engine oil analysis chart at 5:09 and see that after @2300 miles the Viscosity @100C is borderline at 11.5. What is the value it should be in that test?
It is awesome to have found this channel. Keep up the good work. No need to dumb the videos down too much just do what you do. I love this stuff!
I appreciate all of the work that you do to explain the difference between the motor oils!
Yeah, most of this goes right over my head! "Hello Mc Fly" anyone home? I'm trying to understand. Guess i just have a 'low dome'. Interesting none the less.
Thank you! Thought it was ME. Avg IQ here.😂🤪
It would be awesome to have a database of VOA results for all the oils discussed on the channel with a link in the description. That way, there's an updated reference we can always go back to when trying to understand or compare some of the differences in the products discussed.
Lake's literally busting with excitement here, it doesn't get better than this.
LOL
As a certified mechanic the only time I've seen a problem with oil change intervals is when they ignored them and run out of oil. Most passenger car/pick-up truck market people want to feel good about what they are getting quality wise. They don't even come close to push the envelope of synthetic motor oil endurance. Love the video's, thanks.
Incredible education! Thank you. What a time to be alive!
I'm definitely interested on the updated M1 0W-40 video. I started using it on BMW's B58 engine after it re-gained the BMW Longlife 01 certification which calls for 0W-20; I figured the 0W-40 would offer better protection even after shearing down to a 30 level.
I would recommend any other brand of oil than M1 for a B58.
Penzoil Ultra Platinum, Motul, Liquid-Moly for some examples.
M1 is fine. I don't own any BMW's but I use 0W-30 in most everything. Take a look at the cP ranges for each grade over temperature and consider how it can be used in all different climates with similar reliability. Not that I have a problem with 0W-40 either, but I'd prefer more viscosity predictability/certainty. If you don't live somewhere that gets below -20c very often then I'd be using 5W-30. It's God's motor oil grade, because it usually takes very little VI's to make.
Thanks both, good recommendations. M1 is fairly cheap and easy to find at the local Walmart, so I limit my OCIs to 5k miles to keep things protected
@@knurlgnar24beautifully put. Exactly the grade I use.
Shearing below grade is super important on motorcycles with a shared sump…where it is engine oil and gear oil.
Can shearing be avoided by using a PAO-based "shear free" oil *without* any viscosity index improver? (These will tend to be, for example, 10W-40 and not 5W-40 or 0W-40 as the latter two can't be made without VII.)
What I get out of this is chains in an engine can break down oils faster than engines without chains or less chains. There may be a reason for belt driven camshafts instead of chains.
@@GaryH-pw9cm
I've seen some belts go 35-40yrs ,plus they are good at dampening, I have no problem with belts.
Either side is a good argument though.
@@TassieLorenzo it can be avoided by changing oil more often. 🙂
@@ckkrons2338 I guess. You can do both though. I use the Penrite Racing oils that don't have any viscosity index improver (therefore they are 5W30 and 10W40, 0W30 or 0W40 isn't possible without VII). The 5W30 is friction modified, but the 10W40 is non friction modified and has the JASO MA rating for wet-clutch motorcycles.
I’ll watch any video you make but definitely want to see how the SP M1 0W40 compares to the old formula
Gotcha!
@@themotoroilgeek yes please
And once you see that, will it make you an oil engineer? Probably not.
Hi Lake, this video really spoke to me, as I've been interested in shear performance of oils since I read about about how it affects engine performance and reliability in an issue of Cycle magazine way back in around 1990.
Your video really gave me a better conceptual understanding of how the tests work.
Thanks for all the knowledge you share!
Wow !!! I am always impressed with all the scientific factual information that you provide about motor oils.
But this video was really over-the-top. Would be very interested to hear what changed in the Mobil1 oil to give it the API-SP rating. Keep up the great work !!! Thank you.
The more you know the more questions you have. 😀
That's when you know you have achieved Wisdom
My cat says change any oil every 3000miles
Damn Steve-o changed his ways and became a scientist!
LOL
I love your energy and this was such a fun watch!
I hope one day you'll do a breakdown like this on Rotary engines! ✌️💜
Lubricating a rotary engine properly - that is when the brain overload really starts...
@@maxgomila8209 by far the biggest regret I have about buying an RX-8 isn't in maintaining it, but attempting to find fact-based information amongst an ocean of anecdotal nonsense. ಥ‿ಥ
@@maxgomila8209 "well you see, my dad's grandfather's uncle used to pour nothing but vegetable oil mixed with dorito dust into HIS rotary and HE never had any problems."
Awesome video. Love the stuff on this channel
Would be great if you could do a video on why someone should “use what’s call for in the owners manual”. I am constantly arguing with people on the internet that tell others to use say 5W-30 instead of the manufacturers requirement of 0W-20 “because the manufacturer is just doing thin oil for the EPA and don’t care about engine life”
Thanks, I'll keep on using Mobil 1 5W-30 despite everyone I know telling me I don't need to use anything that good.
I was a dealership mercedes mechanic for 13 years. fun fact. we only had 1 oil from the oil dispensers at our bays and all the cars regardless of year make and model, got that 1 oil
Viscosity, but I will say the Extreme Pressure lubricants carry wear protection to a new level. I've been using Bel Ray 6 in 1 (extreme pressure lubricant) lubricating fluid on my motorcycle chains for 30 years. 20,000 miles on my chain and the sprockets look like new. Misshapen sprocket teeth = proof of chain wear.
I realize it's probably unintentional, but for the love of GOD, please pay a bit more attention to your guests while interviewing them. It's rude to ignore them this much, and it's awkward because they have nothing to do but twiddle their thumbs while you're focusing your attention on us.
P.S.You're in good company. Plenty of TH-camrs have the same habit of trying to overengage the audience. You're the man. Keep up the good work!
Its like answering questions at a jury trial. You dont answer questions looking at the judge or attorney. You answer questions looking at the jury. He is just looking at the camera because that is his audience.
@@tomahawkjo8574 Really? What if Col. Jack Nicholson takes the stand?
Loved these tests, it really makes you question the oil grades. Looking forward to your Boxster oil analysis !
Very cool you are back at HPL's lab. They make great oils!
It amazes me how many people wanna stretch out their Oil Service interval.
A tank of Fuel costs more than a bottle of oil!
What are you doing?
Hell, most of us could afford to change oil and filter monthly if we didn't buy Barista Coffee!
Some of us already change our oil and filter monthly--WITH the extended 10k mile schedule. On the conventional schedule, this would become a weekly chore costing almost two extra tanks' of gas worth in money.
You sound young. But sure, whatever makes you feel better about yourself.
@notsonsered103- The video isn't really covering drain intervals. If an oil is formulated for safe extended drain intervals, then there's no benefit in changing it, other than donating your money to a mega-rich oil company. -- 31 year independent AMSOIL synthetic lubricants Dealer.
No it doesn’t. What type of mega truck are you using? My Hyundai Ioniq costs 25 dollars to fill up the whole tank and gets about 900 miles on that full tank
It amazes me how stupid people get thinking about oil changes, when in reality average Joe in USA will sell the car long before any issues will arise. All tis oil talk is worth nothing in USA. Now if it was India or some other shithole country where people shit on streets in broad daylight and drive 35 year old cars - then i would say oil change is important topic for them But even then it's as simple as to change oil once a year and call it a day.
I’ve always loved maintaining my vehicles but you’ve made me a motor oil geek.
Walmart sells Penzoil ultra platinum for same price as Amazon. Also sell Valvoline protect and restore which I’ve switched to after your testing evaluation, thanks keep up the good work
Thank you!
It was $ 63 a jug here at WM. They don't carry it any more.
Love your videos. I was interested in sending my semi truck oil, Valvoline 10w30 semi synthetic to be analyzed and was curious of how I can do that
That Mobil 0w 40 European Formula was the one that I ended up using in my 01 Grand Am 2.4l . It took Arizona heat very well, better than both 5 and 10w 30. Sold it with 327k miles when i moved out of state, still running good. I also used an oversize oil filter . I used to follow the oil life monitor, that could light up between 2800-5500 miles of driving. When it was over 110 F during summer, it would call for a sooner change. That is the oil I am using in my 07 G6 GT. No oil loss.
Was the car actually running hot? 110f matters if it’s AIR-cooled, or if it’s a track car/builds heat.
@@jimstenlund6017 No. I installed a 182 F thermostat, instead of the stock 195 F. If idled of a long period in the heat, the temperature would go up a little bit and then the fans would kick in. Mobil oil kept it cooler as well.
Thank you for all of the work in bringing solid data to us. I really appreciate the free education!
Any time!
Just as a suggestion: I would have appreciated a short breakdown of the results table (e.g. "this column shows the change in shear value after the test") and a highlighting of the cells you are currently talking about.
I remember 40 years ago or so, Mobil 1 used to advertise that their 5W30 Mobil 1 oil had no viscosity modifiers. Old conventional 10W40 oil had the most viscosity modifier and fouled engines so much, that car makers quit recommending 10W40 oil. 20W50 conventional oil had the least amount of viscosity modifier, of the conventional multigrade oils, that it was one of the cheapest multigrade oils to produce.
Wow!
20.W. 50..offers the best protecton,protection,, seems so
Another great video, food for thought. Now i need to disseminate the information. Like a co- worker if mine used to say at our training seminars, , : I'm still confused, but at a much higher level " :)
LOL
Or, Send a sample of your oil to Blackstone Labs, and they will tell you exactly whats going on.
This was ridiculously cool, thank you and the guys at HPL for this video!
Wow! I have used Mobile1 Full Synthetic for my oil changes more than any other brand and now I know I was correct to ignore these 20,000-mile guarantees! Thank you for this and I hope we can see some oils go head-to-head for viscosity tests. That would really be a treat!
Great Content as Usual! 👍
Thank You!
Former Automotive, Aerospace, Military and Medical, R&D Engineer.
Mike in San Diego. 🌞🎸🚀🖖
I know the SP is about preventing low speed per-ignition on direct injection motors, but I'd love to hear more about the details of what's going on with that phenomenon.
Given that most of us likely have no idea how the quantity of wear materials in an oil analysis correlates to engine life, a video on that would be very useful. For example, if iron is 50 ppm at every 5,000 mile oil change vs. 10 ppm, what difference does that really make? Personally, I suspect that even if every oil sample had 50 ppm of iron, the engine would still last 200,000 miles and with 10 ppm it might last a million miles. Given that few cars ever see 200,000 miles, are we talking about differences that don’t make a difference? Inquiring minds want to know.
Yeah I'm interested as well, though we have to keep in mind that engines can fail in a variety of different ways and some fail over many thousands of miles while others can fail more suddenly. For engines which last on the lower end of the spectrum, irreversible symptoms may develop well before that and influence decision making on keeping the vehicle overall. I'd still like to know what differences in OA values truly mean but will always try to be the most considerate I can be to ensure my engine is at least above average in terms of potential lifespan.
@@ALMX5DP My point is simply that many things we do are in the “lipstick on a pig” category. I live in northern PA where we use copious amounts of road salt in the winter and rarely will a 15 year old car pass inspection due to unibody rust. Even body on frame vehicles like pickups seldom make it to 20 years. Given the 12,000 mile per year driving average, this yields 180,000 miles tops for a car and maybe 240,000 for a pickup. My last pickup was 20 years old when I had to get rid of it and it had only 160,000 miles. If 10,000 mile oil changes will get an engine to 200,000 miles reliably, then if you live in PA or NY or several other states, spending more money to change oil every 3,000 or 5,000 miles is a fools errand. It just means you junk your rusty old car with an engine slightly less worn than otherwise. Economically, it is insanity.
@@LTVoyager ah gotcha, yeah that’s quite a bit different to other parts of the country, especially like the west and southwest where rust isn’t a huge issue at all.
You'll never see anything like that on this channel. ANY difference is amplified/exaggerated to appeal to the fanboys that, apparently, enjoy the oil paranoia and uncritically accept anything Lake tells them.
I got a 2003 Ford ranger with 278k miles I change the oil every 3000 for conventional and 5000 with synthetic.
Great video for a motor oil nerd. Lake is an inspiration to us all. I have been intrigued by shearing of motor oil since I started reading the Bob Is The Oil Guy website. HPL is a sponsor of that site and puts on an annual open house for BITOG enthusiasts. I visited HPL for the 2022 open house and got to tour the same lab that Lake was in for the video. I feel so hooked up!
Motor Oil Geek, your lab test videos are awesome. Since Amsoil ranks right up there as one of “the” best oils, a comprehensive shear test on a Signature Series oil would be great for all your subscribers. Choose a top oil from each manufacturer and lets see those results! Thx
"Hydrodynamic Wedge" love it! advertising rules.
In this video You said more words that I've never heard than ANY other video on YT. Conclusion....clear as mud. 🤷♂️
Yes Please.......more videos..........0W40 Mobil 1 is what my wife uses in her car......VERY interested 🤔
I'm thinking that if it isn't a race car, it's probably ok.
Please! Absolutely do a deep dive video on the differences and requirements of API SN and API SP! :)
If that video is 1 hour long, I will watch every single moment of it! :)
Just the thought of that type of deep dive video makes me incredibly happy! I am genuinely excited to learn more! :)
Thanks for the idea!
This guy enthusiasm is amazing 🤩
What makes the Euro 0w-40s different from the “ normal “ oils other than marketing . Awesome series . David and you make a great team.
I think he covered that previously... Maybe 3 months ago.(?)
Hey Lake, judging by the responces there seems to be a lot of interest in the Euro 0w40 & 5w40 formulations. Perhaps you could do a comparison of those from Mobile 1, Castrol, Pennzoil, Valvoline. Then discuss the 30w alternates.
Great suggestion!
@@themotoroilgeek i would also like to see Penrite and toyota brand oil, i find that Penrite could be lying about there viscosity
@peskypeet- *Mobil 1.
@@HiTechOilCo…if it’s in a vehicle engine, then it IS *Mobile 😎
I would recommend Amsoil 0W-40 or 5W-40 100% Synthetic European oil (PAO, Ester with top-shelf Lubrizol additive package).
Definitely would love to see what changed on that Mobil to go from SN to SP!
From memory, off the top of my head,
It might be a reduction in the amount of Calcium additive in the oil.
This helps reduce LSPI (again from memory)
My daily driver has issues with oil shear. The engine is a 1989 Subaru EA71S engine. That's a factory built racing engine for the FJ1600 open wheel race cars in Japan. It has 12:1 compression, solid flat tappet cam, low tension rings, and the camshaft is gear driven. The power band is from 3500 to 6500 RPM and power only starts dropping off at 7500. The car has 4.25 gears and 13 inch wheels. I rebuilt it around 200,000 miles ago. This engine spec'd a discontinued 10W-50 oil. It will shear nearly any 5w-50, 15w-50, or 20w-50 oil within 5000 miles or less, presumably due to the helical timing gears. Cruising RPMs on the highway are between 3500 and 5000 RPM, and it gets driven 500-1500 miles per week. This is essentially a racing engine that gets driven on the street, in traffic, every day. The absolute best oil I have found is HPL 10W-50. It can go 7500 miles in the summer or 10,000 miles in the winter and still be in grade at the end of that interval. The next best is Renewable Lubricants 20W-50 racing oil. It can go around 5,000-6,000 miles. Some of the oils like Mobil 1 5W-50 will be done in 1500 miles or 1 week of driving. I can tell when the oil has sheared even without an oil analysis as the hot oil pressure will drop lower and lower. When it's under 10 psi hot idle, I change it. HPL oil is absolutely worth it's weight in gold. My friend also runs the 20W-50 diesel oil in a 1982 Oldsmobile Toronado diesel which is also a difficult engine with regards to oil life and it lasts longer than anything else in his engine as well.
This is quite interesting being that with the latest sample I took from my 6.4 hemi Ram, the lab came back and said it wasn't quite in range for 0w40. Which has prompted me to switch brands. I ran that brand for 5,000 mi and I am now waiting on the results of that sample to see the difference.
This is the primary reason I use Redline. Their PAO ester based oil maintains viscosity to very, very high temperatures, and resists sheering more than any other kind of oil on the market.
The Red Line oils are very good.
HPL have the best product currently available especially their gear oils.
Interesting to learn about how timing chain can accelerate shearing of the oil. I’m guessing it’s more so a factor in OHC engines with multiple chains and sprockets vs a small chain in a pushrod engine.
The oil between the chains and guides is experiencing almost nothing but shear.
My cat says valve lifter rubbing against the camshaft lobes is another grinder in the engine..ducati did the eight thing with desmodronic valves cos it removes this heavy stress
That Castrol GTX commercial is my favorite engine related commercial. My second favorite is pay me now or pay me later which is a Fram Oil Filter commercial.
That’s also a great one!
Mr. Geek, thank you so much for explaining all of this to us. I appreciate you!
Never really cared about viscosity until we bought a GM 3.6 and the cam sensor played havoc on our check engine light. Started using Royal Purple, saw no change. Moved to Amsoil. No improvement. Only driven 3500 miles p/y. I change the oil every 9 months, screening the used oil for particles. Only when I began to drive for 300 miles or more would the check engine light go out. The engine runs strong. So I'm back to using what's on sale. Going to learn those additives to make better selection. Video is great, because it makes old brain have to work.
Your engine might be suffering from oil dilution where gasoline goes into the oil. The two key steps to minimise this issue are to avoid short trips and to change the oil frequently (at least every 6 months).
Although the engineers at VW had the foresight to make sure any oil leaks out of the engine before shearing becomes a problem, I’d still like to see what the M1 0w40 is doing in my car
Yes Please. I would like video about ACEA and API rating and differences, increased chain wear on newest "eco friendly crap" oils :)
Agree. Both of those ratings are important and must be evaluated together. API rating alone don't show whether the oil is full SAPS or mid SAPS, very important criteria for emissions control systems.
The latest API SP has a tougher chain wear test than before though.
Excited for the UOA on 5W30 in the Boxster!
I had an old 1986 GMC 2500 4x4 back in the day…she had a 350…I had the original owner’s manual and the manual stated not to use 10w40 oil or engine damage would result…this oil was allowed in the early 80’s and GM found they were getting abnormally high warranty claims on engine failures and found they were using 10w40…apparently back at that time they didn’t have the technology in the additives and the polymers to be able to have the drastic ranges between the two #’s and the oil was sheering out of viscosity causing major engine damage…10w30 worked great but 10w40 was just a bridge too far…the oils today are much better of course but to this day 10w30 is hard to beat!
Today we learned LSjr has many favorite things, and some "favorite favorite" oil test!
I'd like to see a comparison of car oils vs motorcycle oils (Not harley oil, sportbikes with shared transmission sump.) The shared sump means the oil is subject to the transmission gears as well as the wet clutch in an engine that spins 16,000 rpm. That's some shear forces!
the most important difference, since motorcycles had clutch plates soaked in engine oil, motorcycle engine oil didnt use anti frictions additives because would pair well with the purpose of clutch aka friction... that's also the reason why honda use different engine oil for motorcycle and scooters, both same oil grade 10w30 but different formulation because scooters like cars didnt had wet clutch