Sometimes there is just a natural lull, because the narcissist isn’t in the “ mood” to torture you that day. They may be in a good mood for a change. I have an older narcissistic sister, who wanted to be an only child and hated having a little sister. We did have some laughs and relaxation on rare occasions, but they didn’t outweigh the control & abuse, which was at least 90% of the time. And when she wasn’t arguing with me, she was arguing or having a power struggle with our mother. Who eventually gave in to her being in charge in an effort to placate her.
"THE JOY" you get from the narcissist is equivalent to eating fast food and any kind of junk food high in sugar, everyday. It makes you feel good for the moment. But eventually it accumulates and before you know it, your health is in trouble.
For ADHD people - at least for me - it makes it extremely hard to not be drawn to them or let go x 1,000 This type of energy is all my brain wants 24/7/365 I figured out I’ve resolved all my emotional issues, but this chemical aspect continues to be a huge challenge for me.
Um, Dr. Ramani? “I’m not very creative.” You are, you’re just doing collective art with groups of people who feel like something thrown away until you help them understand and heal. That’s art, and it’s beautiful. ❤
This joy tricks you into staying longer with the narcissist. It gives you hope that things will be better someday. It makes you feel guilty for standing up for yourself because you think this relationship is not that bad. Those precious little moments are what they hold on to. In their world, you were happy with them. They never see the abuse.
I am not going to keep trying or figure out what they know, feel, or how they got there. It has robbed me of many things and joy for 7 decades. I am on a quest for joy, my joy! I quit caring what they think thanks to yrs of the videos. Wish you all much joy! 🎉
It reminds me of breadcrumbing…being so grateful for any little good thing we think it overrides the bad or is better than nothing. It’s not. I’d rather not accept breadcrumbs and experience real healthy mutual reciprocal expansive joy and love. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
My ex would with hold love or affection if i said or did anything he didnt like. I felt like it was my fault. He said i was boring and got on his nerves
‘When not drowning feels like a good life, that’s not great. Survival is not joy’ …So true.. Focusing on reality with knowing the difference between joy and momentary relief. Working on my well being finding authentic joy, radical acceptance realistic expectations and less guilt. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
It feels like parents can well as partners simply took a hammer to my psyche every time I felt like I was experiencing joy 💔❤️🩹♥️ now I feel grateful relief & some peace but it’s all mine to enjoy 😉
Absolutely. When things are good, they are amazing! When they are bad they are awful. Also, some feel joy when the narcissist is hurting because they hurt us so much, that's a guilty kind of joy. Narcissists are very addictive and dangerous. No matter the relationship.
We feel relief when our needs are finally met and, if we’re just surviving instead of flourishing, we may mistake that for joy. True joy is much bigger than that.
My experience has been society at large really *doesn't* offer much of a higher bar in general. It's why I prefer my own peace with my pets, and focusing on my Godchildren.
Our head was muddled when it felt joy. Then we realized that it was confused. Our mixed emotions are the reality that we're in such kind of relationship.
Cool video, My relationship of 5 years ended a month ago. The love of my life decided to leave me, I really love her so much I can’t stop thinking about her, I’ve tried my very best to get her back in my life, but to no avail, I’m frustrated, I don’t see my life with anyone else. I’ve done my best to get rid of the thoughts of her, but I can’t, I don’t know why I’m saying this here, I really miss her and just can’t stop thinking about her
its difficult to let go of someone you love, i was in a similar situation, my relationship of 12 years ended, but i couldnt just let her go i did all i could to get her back, i had to seek the help of a spiritual counselor who helped me bring her back
5:58 A day without abuse is NOT joyful or feeling happiness- The relationship is like drowning, and a day without abuse, is when your head is out of the water and you can breathe, except you have to hold your breath, again, because youre back under water, And the cycle continues.
This also reminds me of the abusive family members, who do horrific abusive things with no accountability then are suddenly nice and give gifts so then I’m expected to be grateful and pretend everything’s ok when it is not. I know the truth and I deserve better. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
Sounds similar to actually relishing the times that they’re giving you the silent treatment, because it results in not having to even communicate with them and be exposed to the emotional abuse/disrespect/devaluing, etc.
Omggggg!!! This is sooo validating. I use to tell my ex that whatever he had for breakfast to keep having that when he wasn't being mean. And the mother thing, just wow! It all just makes sense now. Thank you so much🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
I send genuine love from my heart to everyone who had/has to live with an unloving mother. It's beyond pain, betrayal and sadness. May peace and health find you soon. ❤
Thank you. It is so freeing to hear from another human being. I have been told most of my life, that it was me that was at fault… I am77 years old, this is hard to recover from
@bethlajaunie5177 I totally understand. Talking about this with others is a waste of time, nobody knows how it truly feels to be treated poorly by the one person in the world who should nurture you, unless you've been through it. It's a wound that will forever bleed, but you get better at stitching and hiding the blood.
Thank you, Dr. Ramani. Your explaining various manifestations of narcissism in relationships is quite clear. You are right. As you discussed in your video, we cannot deny reality in thinking that a temporary relief of chronic abuse from a narcissist brings joy. Repetitive cycles of abuse cannot be normalized. There is something wrong when a person is driven to torment another person on a continual basis. It is unlawful to disturb someone who is doing no harm to anyone. The absence of moral absolutes in my opinion is what is causing willful disregard toward another human being. Man's inhumanity to man. Chronic narcissistic abuse is unacceptable in a free world economy. Urgent humanitarian intervention is necessary to restore order in a society of cancel culture and disrespect. Tolerance, mutual respect, and dignity have to be restored to relationships. These factors should become stabilizing forces for continuity in all communities.
If it were only so simple ! The whole point is to recognise that the narcissist thinks he is a good person, he does not see any abuse and you will never convince him otherwise. Never. He has no capacity for introspection, therefore the abuse will continue.
@@lesleydavies3199 They won’t truly become aware that what they are doing is wrong, but you can. And from there engage in some of the things the OP talks about, to make abuse less prevalent, normalized and rewarding for the narcissists out there, but mostly to make life better for the rest of us.
I had really good moments of joy with my ex husband. However, once abuse, ignoring needs and carelessness and not being a responsible adult for day to day chores started..it became difficult to find joy in things which I once cherished
For me it is my Mum and those tears used to come when she wouldn't be abusive and from a place of deep sadness of 'why couldn't she be like this more.'
That is the hardest thing about my relationship with my brother. He was the one who took care of me(I was 3)at our father’s funeral. He had just turned 6 and was the only “adult”. I’ve always looked up to him and wanted his approval. As we got older, after awhile, I came to realize that he was bread crumbing me. I was SO desperate for his attention that I would take any scrap he threw my way. I kept trying to get his approval until I realized, with your help, that he was playing me. He may even be jealous of my artistic abilities because his praise sounded like something you would say to a 5 yr old. Very condescending and patronizing. I listen to other people now. They are genuine and don’t make me jump through their hoops.
Yes I do. I don’t allow myself to believe it is lasting, but I make sure to enjoy the feeling while it’s there. It’s never a reason to stay, whether physically or emotionally.
I suspect narcissists sometimes forget narcissism--and the deep shame and insecurity behind it. They get distracted enough by "good" times to feel almost like they don't need it, and then "joy" and relief come in for them and those around them.
OMG, so Brilliant, and killer analogies. You were so ON, Ramani. Your subjects are so thoughtfully and expertly presented that I am riveted till the end, and then I can turn right around and explain this concept with no effort. I got to thinking about the limited text contact I have with my NM. She makes sure to text Good Night every evening. Now I can see I was finding joy in that because she the only person in my life who does so; but I also know she does it to remain inserted in my life.
Merry X-mas Dr. Ramani and all the people helping others. Even if you don't believe like myself, its a time to thank those that help us and appreciate those around us we care about and love.. Be safe, I hope you all enjoy something special and get some relaxation in..
I love you, DR. Ramani! I have always said, "Joy comes in the morning morning." And it does in my quiet time. Then, the joy will depend on the mood of my husband when he wakes up.. My husband/narc takes 'good care of me'. Does all the shopping - good. Takes me to almost all doctors. I have fibromyalgia. ( Probably from years of emotional and verbal abuse). I just discovered that I have several stones in my left kidney. One is too big to pass naturally. I am in so much pain. I try not to tell him. Takes me to the doctor, but now I am diagnosed he is mad at me. I just say, (not often), "Fine, divorce me, find a better travel partner." That really ticks him I off. I left him once 3 years ago, for a week. Lol. I told himcthat it was a chance to find a healthy traveler. Because he loves to cruise, and I don't. I don't go out after 2 pm. There is so much more.
My fmr roommate and I were driving back from a convention trip, and he started treating me like shit, had a meltdown, etc. We'd just had a *wonderful* time, so I didn't know why he was flying off the handle. We get home, I slam the door in his face for the abuse....and he acknowledges that he flipped out *cause the good time was over* . In other words, narcs need the momentum continuing constantly. Even the *slightest* quiet moment that deep reflection might be risked, they crash, *no questions asked* .
I do. I broke no contact with him and met with him a few days ago. We had the best time. But, I know he still has that "girlfriend" in Thailand. 😖 He's like a bad drug. I feel physical PAIN not being around him. I need to constantly remind myself who he really is. 😢
Thank you, Dr. Ramani, this sounds like my ex- husband. I got sicker and sicker Colon Cancer. And 5 strokes is all I got from my 20+ years of marriage. Thank you, Dr. Ramani, your videos and your book should I stay or should I leave books that help me to open my eyes. Also, my faith and trust in God brought me through. Next year will be 4 years. My divorce just finalized 10:58 . He wanted my home, but God said otherwise. I am now on the journey to set boundaries and continioys healing. It has not been easy. But I will never look back. Thank you again.
Funny & fun to be with but definitely not someone to trust or respect much less love. Eventually those good feelings are replaced by unease & dislike. Then it’s time to distance yourself or go no contact if romantic because you’re on thin ice with a narcissist. I never turn my back on one without expecting vengeance so now I put up blocks immediately!
This is absolute truth! But I would’ve never realized it alone. Thank you for helping me navigate life after narc marriage. I’m stuck with my mother but this helps me through! 💜
This video gave me hope in a twisted sort of way. Being a realist, I have had very little joy in life, having suffered with lifelong depression from (I'm now realizing) a repetition of abusive relationships reinforcing my childhood cPTSD. The hope is that maybe I can look for joy in the moments of relief, that perhaps I can make something joyful out of them instead of holding myself back, knowing the moment will not last. Perhaps this will become my art of making the found moments beautiful.
There's something about a parent-child relationship which is the hardest to cut off. That "short-term-tolerance" fuels a child's or grown-child's addiction and craving for approval and love which will never happen with a narc-parent.
As soon as you asked the question, I said out loud, no it's just , and when I was younger false hope, in stark contrast to the depression and despair and pain and everything else that characterized daily life with the narcissists. Ps found object art is my favorite too. But I've begun to see it more clearly too. As someone seeing and creating beautiful things from the cast off, wreckage, or discarded (learning to see beauty and purpose in myself and what I did in the relationships, even tho I was discarded distanced and destroyed). I also see it as finding beauty joy in things outside the relationship with the narcissistic person (especially metaphorical for those that we cannot leave).
This is exactly what happened to me recently. 10:34 I don’t need to be around them or wiping the slate. Been there and done it for years and years. This video was on point!
First time in many years of listening to Dr R. I dissent . Even good feeling of having occasional relief of tension is good, and should be enjoyed without any sense of guilt, and not accompanied by immediate self reminding that this is not real joy. In my case I don’t forget about the reality, and know that the next storm/ downfall is around the corner . But if one evening feels “ normal” , than I treasure it still. Breath of fresh air is always good, however short or fleeting We enjoy a beautiful rainbow when we see it, without expecting it to be there forever
My abusive narcissistic daughter and I used to experience moments of joy. I remember laughing until I cried with her at something funny the dog did or a silly movie. However, as the nursery rhyme says when she was bad she was very, very bad. Those moments of joy Did not outweigh the trauma of her abusive narcissistic behavior at other times.
As you mentioned in another video: when you get a breadcrumb of normal, friendly behaviour or a sweet gesture. I got conditioned and I acknowledged it only when she talked about her new person of interest and said: "I'm looking for the man I can mould into perfection."
This was helpful. I am dealing with a marriage where my husband has told me what he is doing with strange women on line is all my fault. We moved to my home town for my employment. He says he is justified. Everytime he is nice to me I fall in the trap. This cycle must stop and it will not get better.
I used to cry at the airport when the narc parents dropped me off. I thought it was me missing them….Watching this video - helped me to understand profoundly another nuance - there was relief from the bad behavior, the tension, the disappointment, not being seen/heard/known/understood and loving them with hopes they would change. 🤯 With all my healing after leaving the narc ex, I did not shed a tear this last visit. Full radical acceptance. I see how they are. Things won’t change. I love them to the best of my ability AND I see the bad behavior, emotional manipulation AND I limit my time/take good self care after a visit. Thank you Dr. Ramani for helping me to understand these complex emotions
I felt overwhelming joy at the beginning and dread at the end of the rollercoaster. So many highs, just to go lower than I’ve ever felt. And then the highs were never as high as they were before. But the floor kept going lower and lower and before I knew it, I had no more ground beneath my feet.
This is a very important ‼️‼️‼️ Our inner child is so desperate for a genuine connection 😢with our unavailable mom. We will take crumbs and confuse it for JOY. 😢😢😢😢😢 My narcissistic mom hurt her leg. I drop everything and have years of healing ❤️🩹 and personal growth I showed up for her to take her to the dr appointments. I deep down felt “this time would be different.” We would have that loving 🥰 connections. We almost 😅 achieved. She bragged to my siblings about our bonding and everything I said and did. That was the end of that - her loyalty was to the ones who didn’t show up. I was at the receiving end of the judgement and criticism. I walked away from a year and focused on my job. She stopped going to Dr appointments 😢and my siblings showed up in a limited way. I didn’t matter to her.
When you mentioned found object art, I couldn't help but remember the piece by Picasso called "bull's head", done in 1942. It's so simple and beautiful, just perfect! A bicycle seat and rusted handlebars!
Yes unfortunately, my life revolves only around the narcissistic person... if she talks to me, I'm better. .. If ignores me, which is 99% of the time, i fall into depression 😢😢😢😢
Oh my goodness, a light bulb moment😮! I literally look forward to those survival moments in my marriage relationship except that I regarded them as joyful ones, balancing the rest of the narcissistic majority ones. Thank you...even those joyful moments aren't really heartfelt, it's like malicious compliance because we're on family holiday. Drives me insane with second guessing myself
Happiness is a butterfly always fleeting, chasing satisfaction, but you can’t feel the happiness w/out its counter of dullness or boredom. Sitting with life might allow the butterfly to fly and sit on your shoulder. Finding happiness in peace, our work and ‘day to day boredom’ butterfly 🦋
Connecting the dots about experiencing relief while it's settling as perceived joy 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼. I feel seen 😬. Add a hint of grief spurts in those rare peaceful moments-that too intertwines with perceived joy because it is relief. Internal feelings of deep grief can also provide some relief, at times. Thats my experience. I wonder-when you experience true joy, do you begin to crave it? I know I crave moments of relief.
I have felt joy in the presence of a couple narcissistic people, but they were not my intimate close relationships, I was by some miracle way more present with my own experience of the other folks there and was already primed for noticing nature in spite of those narcs in that moment. Oh and they were not being super narcissistic at the moment. So, if I'm honest, no, I've never felt real joy in the relationship with a narcissistic person.
"You're just like your father (insert father's problematic behaviour)" me "Im upset dad does/says/doesn't do (insert isdue", my mother "he loves you, he is not well, he this that and the other OR worse, "well how do you think I feel". Wonderful! Joy is not something I experienced with my narcs. What I did do is get happy outside of those relationships, not know about narcissism and stupidly go back! Giving them the best of me, it was a huge mistake!
People filter the tiny piece of “good stuff” and rely on it to excuse themselves for going back. That glimpse of hope the narcissist give us is to cloud our judgement and hoover us back in for “the stuff thats worth it”. That break between past and future evil is very efficient. In the end of the day who goes back to something thats entirely bad?
My ex girlfriend was habitually mean to me, never have I been directly insulted by someone as many times as this woman did to me, and yet I still loved her. I still miss her, for some reason. It's like the experience of abuse takes on a unique level of intimacy. The cocktail of shame, anger, heartbreak, and deceipt you feel when someone you love is cruel to you...even though it's negative, it still registers as "special treatment"
I know this with my marriage, I also had hope that something good will one day come out of the this one sided marriage... I always thought it was joy, when she didn't want to be worshiped and it was actually a her drawing me only to hit with the guilt tactics
I made some money and bought my mother a small house,when she died it had trebled in price,She died and left the whole lot to my brother ,Even though i was divorced and struggling,😮😮
Joy is a fruit of The Spirit, you either have Him living inside of you, or you don't. It's not dependent on anyone else's behaviour. Jesus still had joy when He was driving out the money changers in The Temple because The Spirit descended on Him and remained. He wept (grieved) over Jerusalem immediately before He did it and immediately after it the religious leaders tried to kill Him. 22But the fruits of The Spirit are love, joy, peace, patience, sweetness, goodness, faith, 23Humility, endurance; the law is not set against these things. 24But those who are of The Messiah have crucified their flesh with all its weaknesses and its cravings. 25We shall live therefore in The Spirit and surrender to The Spirit, Gal. 5:22-25 Aramaic
Really? Does the text actually say Jesus still had joy when He was driving out the money changers in The Temple? I've always heard that Jesus felt anger or righteous indignation at that moment.
I feel joy when I’m not with the narcissist just driving my car or working in the garden. But narcissist has nothing to do with it. Them being nice to you is a manipulation too because they’re just going through the pattern again of nice devalue discard. Everything they do is about them if their nice it like look at me I’m so nice what a great person I am!!
I had a really long comment but I was too late and it was the end of the video and it erased it.. What I can relate to is creating a fantasy world because my real world sucked..
“A lapse in cruelty is not evidence of kindness.”
Pleasure from the lack of pain
The calm before the next storm
Sometimes there is just a natural lull, because the narcissist isn’t in the “ mood” to torture you that day. They may be in a good mood for a change. I have an older narcissistic sister, who wanted to be an only child and hated having a little sister. We did have some laughs and relaxation on rare occasions, but they didn’t outweigh the control & abuse, which was at least 90% of the time. And when she wasn’t arguing with me, she was arguing or having a power struggle with our mother. Who eventually gave in to her being in charge in an effort to placate her.
That's not really joy. Joys comes from inside and I don't think a joyful moment can be just absence of abuse.
So well said....I am grateful to all of u and dr ramani eye opening ❤
"THE JOY" you get from the narcissist is equivalent to eating fast food and any kind of junk food high in sugar, everyday. It makes you feel good for the moment. But eventually it accumulates and before you know it, your health is in trouble.
WOW 😟 You NAILED it. OMG 😔
Really well said
Great analogy
For ADHD people - at least for me - it makes it extremely hard to not be drawn to them or let go
x 1,000
This type of energy is all my brain wants 24/7/365
I figured out I’ve resolved all my emotional issues, but this chemical aspect continues to be a huge challenge for me.
@@WetPaintChi I hear and feel you on this 💯.
Um, Dr. Ramani? “I’m not very creative.” You are, you’re just doing collective art with groups of people who feel like something thrown away until you help them understand and heal. That’s art, and it’s beautiful. ❤
👏👏👏 isn't she so brave?
This joy tricks you into staying longer with the narcissist. It gives you hope that things will be better someday. It makes you feel guilty for standing up for yourself because you think this relationship is not that bad. Those precious little moments are what they hold on to. In their world, you were happy with them. They never see the abuse.
YES 😞
I am not going to keep trying or figure out what they know, feel, or how they got there. It has robbed me of many things and joy for 7 decades. I am on a quest for joy, my joy! I quit caring what they think thanks to yrs of the videos. Wish you all much joy! 🎉
It reminds me of breadcrumbing…being so grateful for any little good thing we think it overrides the bad or is better than nothing. It’s not. I’d rather not accept breadcrumbs and experience real healthy mutual reciprocal expansive joy and love. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
My ex would with hold love or affection if i said or did anything he didnt like. I felt like it was my fault. He said i was boring and got on his nerves
100 %
‘When not drowning feels like a good life, that’s not great. Survival is not joy’ …So true.. Focusing on reality with knowing the difference between joy and momentary relief. Working on my well being finding authentic joy, radical acceptance realistic expectations and less guilt. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
Cheers to everyone who is still struggling to heal after years of... remember you are not weak keep pushing
It feels like parents can well as partners simply took a hammer to my psyche every time I felt like I was experiencing joy 💔❤️🩹♥️ now I feel grateful relief & some peace but it’s all mine to enjoy 😉
@@caroleminke6116 I feel you, keep enjoying
Absolutely. When things are good, they are amazing! When they are bad they are awful. Also, some feel joy when the narcissist is hurting because they hurt us so much, that's a guilty kind of joy. Narcissists are very addictive and dangerous. No matter the relationship.
We feel relief when our needs are finally met and, if we’re just surviving instead of flourishing, we may mistake that for joy. True joy is much bigger than that.
My experience has been society at large really *doesn't* offer much of a higher bar in general.
It's why I prefer my own peace with my pets, and focusing on my Godchildren.
Thank you IAPPC. Really hit home! ❤
Our head was muddled when it felt joy. Then we realized that it was confused. Our mixed emotions are the reality that we're in such kind of relationship.
Yup! Yup! Yup! I think it’s just a moment that I can just finally breathe.. versus holding my breath around the person ….
Are you free from The Narcissist now?
It's so true that it's just relief, not JOY.
Cool video, My relationship of 5 years ended a month ago. The love of my life decided to leave me, I really love her so much I can’t stop thinking about her, I’ve tried my very best to get her back in my life, but to no avail, I’m frustrated, I don’t see my life with anyone else. I’ve done my best to get rid of the thoughts of her, but I can’t, I don’t know why I’m saying this here, I really miss her and just can’t stop thinking about her
its difficult to let go of someone you love, i was in a similar situation, my relationship of 12 years ended, but i couldnt just let her go i did all i could to get her back, i had to seek the help of a spiritual counselor who helped me bring her back
Amazing, how did you get a spiritual counselor, and how do i reach her?
Shelly renee white , and she is a great spiritual counselor who can bring back your ex.
Thank you for this valuable information, i just looked her up now online. impressive
Periods of less tension and not joy made perfect sense to me and was a light bulb moment 💡🙏
I feel joy when I am no contact with them. 😊
I do also if I give them no space in my thoughts! Just searching for my joy! 🎉
This "joy" is the basis of addiction and co dependency.. thank you for ever Dr Ramani
5:58
A day without abuse is NOT joyful or feeling happiness-
The relationship is like drowning, and a day without abuse, is when your head is out of the water and you can breathe, except you have to hold your breath, again, because youre back under water, And the cycle continues.
Yes! You feel relief. Sometimes it can also be 5 days and they don't show the bad behaviours and then you feel foolish for wanting to cut ties
This also reminds me of the abusive family members, who do horrific abusive things with no accountability then are suddenly nice and give gifts so then I’m expected to be grateful and pretend everything’s ok when it is not. I know the truth and I deserve better. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
Sounds similar to actually relishing the times that they’re giving you the silent treatment, because it results in not having to even communicate with them and be exposed to the emotional abuse/disrespect/devaluing, etc.
Omggggg!!! This is sooo validating. I use to tell my ex that whatever he had for breakfast to keep having that when he wasn't being mean. And the mother thing, just wow! It all just makes sense now. Thank you so much🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Most times I found joy in what I was enjoying NOT in the husband I was with
I send genuine love from my heart to everyone who had/has to live with an unloving mother. It's beyond pain, betrayal and sadness. May peace and health find you soon. ❤
Thank you. It is so freeing to hear from another human being. I have been told most of my life, that it was me that was at fault… I am77 years old, this is hard to recover from
@bethlajaunie5177 I totally understand. Talking about this with others is a waste of time, nobody knows how it truly feels to be treated poorly by the one person in the world who should nurture you, unless you've been through it. It's a wound that will forever bleed, but you get better at stitching and hiding the blood.
@@Hodijo Thank You for Hearing me. So Beautiful to have Someone, who will finally hear me…
Thank you, Dr. Ramani. Your explaining various manifestations of narcissism in relationships is quite clear. You are right. As you discussed in your video, we cannot deny reality in thinking that a temporary relief of chronic abuse from a narcissist brings joy. Repetitive cycles of abuse cannot be normalized. There is something wrong when a person is driven to torment another person on a continual basis. It is unlawful to disturb someone who is doing no harm to anyone. The absence of moral absolutes in my opinion is what is causing willful disregard toward another human being. Man's inhumanity to man. Chronic narcissistic abuse is unacceptable in a free world economy. Urgent humanitarian intervention is necessary to restore order in a society of cancel culture and disrespect. Tolerance, mutual respect, and dignity have to be restored to relationships. These factors should become stabilizing forces for continuity in all communities.
If it were only so simple ! The whole point is to recognise that the narcissist thinks he is a good person, he does not see any abuse and you will never convince him otherwise. Never. He has no capacity for introspection, therefore the abuse will continue.
@@lesleydavies3199 They won’t truly become aware that what they are doing is wrong, but you can. And from there engage in some of the things the OP talks about, to make abuse less prevalent, normalized and rewarding for the narcissists out there, but mostly to make life better for the rest of us.
I had really good moments of joy with my ex husband. However, once abuse, ignoring needs and carelessness and not being a responsible adult for day to day chores started..it became difficult to find joy in things which I once cherished
For me it is my Mum and those tears used to come when she wouldn't be abusive and from a place of deep sadness of 'why couldn't she be like this more.'
this "joy" is the manipulation of the narcissist, and once awareness is reached, it is a residue from past manipulation.
That is the hardest thing about my relationship with my brother. He was the one who took care of me(I was 3)at our father’s funeral. He had just turned 6 and was the only “adult”. I’ve always looked up to him and wanted his approval.
As we got older, after awhile, I came to realize that he was bread crumbing me. I was SO desperate for his attention that I would take any scrap he threw my way. I kept trying to get his approval until I realized, with your help, that he was playing me. He may even be jealous of my artistic abilities because his praise sounded like something you would say to a 5 yr old. Very condescending and patronizing. I listen to other people now. They are genuine and don’t make me jump through their hoops.
Yes I do. I don’t allow myself to believe it is lasting, but I make sure to enjoy the feeling while it’s there. It’s never a reason to stay, whether physically or emotionally.
Thank you for this video, it came such an important moment of my life as a solid reminder. I appreciate your work truly!!!
Thank you Dr. Ramani! I really appreciate your teaching! I have a lot of gratitude 🙏 ✨️
There’s a whole museum in Baltimore dedicated to found art, sometimes called outsider art. It’s an amazing place.
I suspect narcissists sometimes forget narcissism--and the deep shame and insecurity behind it. They get distracted enough by "good" times to feel almost like they don't need it, and then "joy" and relief come in for them and those around them.
OMG, so Brilliant, and killer analogies. You were so ON, Ramani. Your subjects are so thoughtfully and expertly presented that I am riveted till the end, and then I can turn right around and explain this concept with no effort. I got to thinking about the limited text contact I have with my NM. She makes sure to text Good Night every evening. Now I can see I was finding joy in that because she the only person in my life who does so; but I also know she does it to remain inserted in my life.
We don’t want to believe in evil, cruelty or abuse. We take that good day to heart.
100 %
Be careful not to feel joy for destroying and labeling them too . That's when you become the monster
They actually do the destroying and the bad labeling themselves...with their own behaviour
Whatever joy I felt was very short lived. It was a day, an afternoon, an hour, a moment.
So maybe it was just relief I was feeling.
Merry X-mas Dr. Ramani and all the people helping others. Even if you don't believe like myself, its a time to thank those that help us and appreciate those around us we care about and love..
Be safe, I hope you all enjoy something special and get some relaxation in..
I love you, DR. Ramani!
I have always said, "Joy comes in the morning morning." And it does in my quiet time. Then, the joy will depend on the mood of my husband when he wakes up..
My husband/narc takes 'good care of me'. Does all the shopping - good. Takes me to almost all doctors.
I have fibromyalgia. ( Probably from years of emotional and verbal abuse).
I just discovered that I have several stones in my left kidney. One is too big to pass naturally. I am in so much pain. I try not to tell him. Takes me to the doctor, but now I am diagnosed he is mad at me. I just say, (not often), "Fine, divorce me, find a better travel partner." That really ticks him I off. I left him once 3 years ago, for a week. Lol. I told himcthat it was a chance to find a healthy traveler. Because he loves to cruise, and I don't.
I don't go out after 2 pm.
There is so much more.
My fmr roommate and I were driving back from a convention trip, and he started treating me like shit, had a meltdown, etc.
We'd just had a *wonderful* time, so I didn't know why he was flying off the handle.
We get home, I slam the door in his face for the abuse....and he acknowledges that he flipped out *cause the good time was over* .
In other words, narcs need the momentum continuing constantly. Even the *slightest* quiet moment that deep reflection might be risked, they crash, *no questions asked* .
That's very insightful.
I do. I broke no contact with him and met with him a few days ago. We had the best time. But, I know he still has that "girlfriend" in Thailand. 😖 He's like a bad drug. I feel physical PAIN not being around him. I need to constantly remind myself who he really is. 😢
Thank you, Dr. Ramani, this sounds like my ex- husband. I got sicker and sicker Colon Cancer. And 5 strokes is all I got from my 20+ years of marriage. Thank you, Dr. Ramani, your videos and your book should I stay or should I leave books that help me to open my eyes. Also, my faith and trust in God brought me through. Next year will be 4 years. My divorce just finalized 10:58 . He wanted my home, but God said otherwise. I am now on the journey to set boundaries and continioys healing. It has not been easy. But I will never look back. Thank you again.
All the best to you❤
Funny & fun to be with but definitely not someone to trust or respect much less love. Eventually those good feelings are replaced by unease & dislike. Then it’s time to distance yourself or go no contact if romantic because you’re on thin ice with a narcissist. I never turn my back on one without expecting vengeance so now I put up blocks immediately!
This is absolute truth! But I would’ve never realized it alone. Thank you for helping me navigate life after narc marriage. I’m stuck with my mother but this helps me through! 💜
This video gave me hope in a twisted sort of way. Being a realist, I have had very little joy in life, having suffered with lifelong depression from (I'm now realizing) a repetition of abusive relationships reinforcing my childhood cPTSD. The hope is that maybe I can look for joy in the moments of relief, that perhaps I can make something joyful out of them instead of holding myself back, knowing the moment will not last. Perhaps this will become my art of making the found moments beautiful.
Me too 😢
There's something about a parent-child relationship which is the hardest to cut off. That "short-term-tolerance" fuels a child's or grown-child's addiction and craving for approval and love which will never happen with a narc-parent.
As soon as you asked the question, I said out loud, no it's just , and when I was younger false hope, in stark contrast to the depression and despair and pain and everything else that characterized daily life with the narcissists.
Ps found object art is my favorite too. But I've begun to see it more clearly too. As someone seeing and creating beautiful things from the cast off, wreckage, or discarded (learning to see beauty and purpose in myself and what I did in the relationships, even tho I was discarded distanced and destroyed). I also see it as finding beauty joy in things outside the relationship with the narcissistic person (especially metaphorical for those that we cannot leave).
This is exactly what happened to me recently. 10:34 I don’t need to be around them or wiping the slate. Been there and done it for years and years. This video was on point!
First time in many years of listening to Dr R. I dissent . Even good feeling of having occasional relief of tension is good, and should be enjoyed without any sense of guilt, and not accompanied by immediate self reminding that this is not real joy. In my case I don’t forget about the reality, and know that the next storm/ downfall is around the corner . But if one evening feels “ normal” , than I treasure it still. Breath of fresh air is always good, however short or fleeting
We enjoy a beautiful rainbow when we see it, without expecting it to be there forever
My abusive narcissistic daughter and I used to experience moments of joy. I remember laughing until I cried with her at something funny the dog did or a silly movie. However, as the nursery rhyme says when she was bad she was very, very bad. Those moments of joy Did not outweigh the trauma of her abusive narcissistic behavior at other times.
G'day Dr Ramani.🐨
Hi Dr Ramani! I have been watching you for almost 1 year and i agree with everything you say. I love you ❤❤❤
10000% accurate this was extremely enlightening.
As you mentioned in another video: when you get a breadcrumb of normal, friendly behaviour or a sweet gesture. I got conditioned and I acknowledged it only when she talked about her new person of interest and said: "I'm looking for the man I can mould into perfection."
This was helpful. I am dealing with a marriage where my husband has told me what he is doing with strange women on line is all my fault. We moved to my home town for my employment. He says he is justified. Everytime he is nice to me I fall in the trap. This cycle must stop and it will not get better.
This video is so accurate. Another amazing, insightful video. Thank you, Dr. Ramani.
I used to cry at the airport when the narc parents dropped me off. I thought it was me missing them….Watching this video - helped me to understand profoundly another nuance - there was relief from the bad behavior, the tension, the disappointment, not being seen/heard/known/understood and loving them with hopes they would change. 🤯
With all my healing after leaving the narc ex, I did not shed a tear this last visit. Full radical acceptance. I see how they are. Things won’t change. I love them to the best of my ability AND I see the bad behavior, emotional manipulation AND I limit my time/take good self care after a visit. Thank you Dr. Ramani for helping me to understand these complex emotions
Wow, that's profound.
I felt overwhelming joy at the beginning and dread at the end of the rollercoaster. So many highs, just to go lower than I’ve ever felt. And then the highs were never as high as they were before. But the floor kept going lower and lower and before I knew it, I had no more ground beneath my feet.
Why, oh, why do I continue to get into relationships with narcissists and narcissists?? 😠 I can now count 4 in 10 years.
Q: How many narcissists does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: None - they rely on the romance of gaslighting!
I really needed to hear this today. Thank you.
I don’t think so. I am always on guard for the next shoe to drop.
This is a very important ‼️‼️‼️ Our inner child is so desperate for a genuine connection 😢with our unavailable mom. We will take crumbs and confuse it for JOY. 😢😢😢😢😢
My narcissistic mom hurt her leg. I drop everything and have years of healing ❤️🩹 and personal growth I showed up for her to take her to the dr appointments. I deep down felt “this time would be different.” We would have that loving 🥰 connections. We almost 😅 achieved. She bragged to my siblings about our bonding and everything I said and did.
That was the end of that - her loyalty was to the ones who didn’t show up. I was at the receiving end of the judgement and criticism.
I walked away from a year and focused on my job. She stopped going to Dr appointments 😢and my siblings showed up in a limited way. I didn’t matter to her.
When you mentioned found object art, I couldn't help but remember the piece by Picasso called "bull's head", done in 1942. It's so simple and beautiful, just perfect! A bicycle seat and rusted handlebars!
🏆 Great Video ❤️ Thank You.
Thank You for Your wise words
Joy can be your salvation 🙏🙏🙏
I spent time with brothers and sisters at my church 🙏🙏🙏❣️🌹🌹🌹
Yes unfortunately, my life revolves only around the narcissistic person... if she talks to me, I'm better. .. If ignores me, which is 99% of the time, i fall into depression 😢😢😢😢
Wow, thank you for explaining it. ❤❤❤
Oh my goodness, a light bulb moment😮! I literally look forward to those survival moments in my marriage relationship except that I regarded them as joyful ones, balancing the rest of the narcissistic majority ones. Thank you...even those joyful moments aren't really heartfelt, it's like malicious compliance because we're on family holiday. Drives me insane with second guessing myself
Happiness is a butterfly always fleeting, chasing satisfaction, but you can’t feel the happiness w/out its counter of dullness or boredom. Sitting with life might allow the butterfly to fly and sit on your shoulder. Finding happiness in peace, our work and ‘day to day boredom’ butterfly 🦋
Connecting the dots about experiencing relief while it's settling as perceived joy 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼. I feel seen 😬. Add a hint of grief spurts in those rare peaceful moments-that too intertwines with perceived joy because it is relief. Internal feelings of deep grief can also provide some relief, at times. Thats my experience. I wonder-when you experience true joy, do you begin to crave it? I know I crave moments of relief.
Thanks for sharing
I have felt joy in the presence of a couple narcissistic people, but they were not my intimate close relationships, I was by some miracle way more present with my own experience of the other folks there and was already primed for noticing nature in spite of those narcs in that moment. Oh and they were not being super narcissistic at the moment. So, if I'm honest, no, I've never felt real joy in the relationship with a narcissistic person.
God bless you! ❤️
"You're just like your father (insert father's problematic behaviour)" me "Im upset dad does/says/doesn't do (insert isdue", my mother "he loves you, he is not well, he this that and the other OR worse, "well how do you think I feel". Wonderful! Joy is not something I experienced with my narcs. What I did do is get happy outside of those relationships, not know about narcissism and stupidly go back! Giving them the best of me, it was a huge mistake!
Spot on. Thank you.
Thank you
The narcissistic pattern is like being on drugs.
People filter the tiny piece of “good stuff” and rely on it to excuse themselves for going back. That glimpse of hope the narcissist give us is to cloud our judgement and hoover us back in for “the stuff thats worth it”. That break between past and future evil is very efficient. In the end of the day who goes back to something thats entirely bad?
My ex girlfriend was habitually mean to me, never have I been directly insulted by someone as many times as this woman did to me, and yet I still loved her. I still miss her, for some reason. It's like the experience of abuse takes on a unique level of intimacy. The cocktail of shame, anger, heartbreak, and deceipt you feel when someone you love is cruel to you...even though it's negative, it still registers as "special treatment"
It is because we have been trained to accept their abuse and make them happy
I know this with my marriage, I also had hope that something good will one day come out of the this one sided marriage...
I always thought it was joy, when she didn't want to be worshiped and it was actually a her drawing me only to hit with the guilt tactics
I made some money and bought my mother a small house,when she died it had trebled in price,She died and left the whole lot to my brother ,Even though i was divorced and struggling,😮😮
😢😢😢😢😢
I have tears in eye 👀 and God wipes them
11:35 was that joy F*** no . I love Dr. Ramani! You would love to study my mother. She is a doozy lol
But what if the joy is all those wonderful things you described, the extreme highs, yet you know the terrible lows are going to come?
💯; found art...I love the analogy.
Joy is a fruit of The Spirit, you either have Him living inside of you, or you don't. It's not dependent on anyone else's behaviour. Jesus still had joy when He was driving out the money changers in The Temple because The Spirit descended on Him and remained. He wept (grieved) over Jerusalem immediately before He did it and immediately after it the religious leaders tried to kill Him.
22But the fruits of The Spirit are love, joy, peace, patience, sweetness, goodness, faith, 23Humility, endurance; the law is not set against these things. 24But those who are of The Messiah have crucified their flesh with all its weaknesses and its cravings.
25We shall live therefore in The Spirit and surrender to The Spirit, Gal. 5:22-25 Aramaic
Really? Does the text actually say Jesus still had joy when He was driving out the money changers in The Temple? I've always heard that Jesus felt anger or righteous indignation at that moment.
I feel joy when I’m not with the narcissist just driving my car or working in the garden. But narcissist has nothing to do with it. Them being nice to you is a manipulation too because they’re just going through the pattern again of nice devalue discard. Everything they do is about them if their nice it like look at me I’m so nice what a great person I am!!
No, I do not feel joy when I'm around the narcissist.
Finally done with my narcs .. never again
Never say my Narc. Instead say the Narc , words has power. Stay safe
I feel joy about myself
Narcissism is a spiritual thing.
I had a really long comment but I was too late and it was the end of the video and it erased it.. What I can relate to is creating a fantasy world because my real world sucked..
When the world told you that "joy" happens when you don't believe your lying eyes.
classically conditioned . now every funky relationship is tarnished as an internal periodic table of shame:(
[x] publicly
I feel fear.