The Last Ever Pacer Train
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- The Pacer trains are finally disappearing from the rail network (although some will be saved by moving to heritage railways). Introduced in the 1980's there were only meant to run for 20 years, but were still in use in 2019, when Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations required them to be retired.
Northern's went in November 2020, GWR said goodbye to theirs in in December 2020, and the end of May saw Transport for Wales Class 143 finally run for the last time, so with two units out in operation, I went for one last bumpy, squeaky, trip, and say farewell ...
Thanks to James Bennet from TfW, more on their new fleet of trains is here: tfwrail.wales/...
Additional thanks to Alex, Chris and Rhydian for providing me with the Welsh subtitles for the PA
(Translated into English, it says "Follow our safer travelling advice - Face coverings must be worn unless you are exempt - Plan ahead to avoid busy periods - Keep your distance, and wash your hands or use hand sanitser regularly.")
![[Live] ศึกมหึมันส์มวยไทยสังเวียนเดือด เวทีมวยชั่วคราวสวนสยาม | จันทร์ 30 กันยายน 2567](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pM1k6f7JXUc/mqdefault.jpg)
“Sir Tom, we named a train after you!”
“Fantastic!”
“Here it is!”
“Oh. Er, thanks, lads.”
Naming a train after Tom Jones? It's not unusual.
"...and it's decades old and sometimes makes horrific noises, but some people just can't get enough of it."
"Right. Tidy."
@@raakone different tom
He would be proud
Many a lady (and gentleman) have ridden Sir Tom Jones 😉
"This one seems a lot less squeaky..." SCREEEEEEEEEE!!
Got me, too!
BAHAHAHAAH!!
I got on these to go to Cardiff I em (;
Ahahhahhahhahaha
The Pacer, the embodiment of the maxim; “there is nothing more permanent than a temporary solution”
The entire British Railway system is an embodiment of that maxim.
"So today, we're going to be riding *every* pacer in service today."
*crickets*
""Thank you for joining us, and make sure to check out our next video, where we travel on every operational hovercraft in the UK."
I think the embodiment of that maxim is the InterCity 125...
same goes for the HST
Or the attitude to areas outside of commuting distance of London.
I won't miss them to be honest, having had to use them on a daily basis from Hazel Grove to Manchester and back for many years. The squeaks, the bumpy ride and the leaks. Not to mention that one of the poles to hold on to got pretty hot, as though it was the exhaust for the engine - Bizarre! However I am glad a small number of them will be on preserved railways to reminisce in 10 or 20 years time, if only to prove a real low point in DMU's that travelled around the UK.
The preserved railways are limited to 25mph so the Pacers will not bounce, and also we will no longer hear that glorious sound as they change up to high gear at 50mph with the transmission on each carriage doing its own thing.
Ugly crap
The 195s and 331s on that line are really good now!
The pacers on that line seem a lot worse than this one. Though ive not been on a Northern Rail train since prepandemic!
As James May once said about something else, "You need one, as a warning from history."
The buses on rails have finally finished their life... As a very long stop gap.
😭
Much like most things to do with the government its never just temporary 🤣
Cheese paring old BR. Well they did the job.
And good riddance to them
Yes first ones were in the mid 60's as Leyland Railbus Single or two car units, later 3 and 4 car. Then had Leyland National bus bodies in the 70's with a Bus front end on both ends of each one except multi car units that had a blank ends to the middle ones. Those old Leyland horizontal 680 engines have done sterling work over the years, two to each motor unit side by side.
The Pacer is going to end up as an anecdote to tell younger generations... "See when I was a lad, we had trains which weren't air conditioned... We opened a Window!!! A bouncy ride, extremely loud and that wasn't just the engine and let all the weather in... It let the wind and rain in and also the heat. And they lasted for 37 years!!!"
Wholesome
Most of my local trains aren't air-conditioned, but with new rolling stock and refurbishments, they removed the ability to open a window!
Let all the heat in, and in winter, let all of the heat out
Just wana say Geoff, your videos have been a huge help for me. Im autistic, and struggle a lot in my daily life, and your honestly a huge help when im having a stressful time with course work. Keep up the amazing work, I love pacers so this should be amazing!
thanks Gavin, you're most welcome. lovely comment ... enjoy the vid!
@@geofftech2 Thank you so much for replying, made my week for certain! Great video!
He does help I have autism to and my life it so hard but when Geoff uploads I just have my mind come back down to earth. Thanks Geoff for all the help you do for us
@@Jason-Clark235 I'd like to know what difficulties autism brings ?
What are your difficulties esp. with coursework ?
I live around Cardiff Queen Street, and saw a pacer running the other day, and was surprised it was still running… apparently that was the last day 😅
No more Pacers, none of them.
**all the stations theme starts playing**
starts playing backwards*
In minor key
the slow, melancholy version of it
"its a sad day" No Geoff, no it isnt. It's a fantastic day as it means thousands of people will no longer need a chairopractor to fix their back after a ride to work :P
There's nothing - nothing, to love about a pacer.
Other than those who commute in on IET's and 70X trains, who will definitely still require a chiropractor
@@electrostarjudgewhat about 701?
Reminds me of an old girlfriend. Bumpy ride, lots of squealing and we’ll skip over the mention of flappy doors.
💀
Gay 💀
@@BethanyBeckett-h2bGFU
Your Girlfriend is not a door
@@BethanyBeckett-h2bwhat about me?
As someone who uses subtitles, thank you for subtitling the Welsh bit. I didn't understand it, but thanks regardless
Yes, fantastic! Beyond me, but awesome!
@vinasu maaj There are quite a few being run on preserved/heritage railways, so don't give up on your plans to ride one :)
I've just discovered that Google Translate supports Welsh. According to Google Translate, the announcement translates as: "Follow our safer travel advice. A facial cover should be worn unless you are exempt. Plan ahead to avoid busy periods. Keep your distance and wash your hands or use disinfecting fluid regularly." So it's just an announcement about COVID travel advice.
Thank you/diolch yn fawr for subtitling the Welsh! As opposed to doing the usual [Speaks in Welsh]
you're welcome Ed! seemed like the right thing to do! i got a little help (but learned some Welsh too...!)
@@geofftech2 nice xd
@@geofftech2 Nice content, please can you make an "All the withdrawn bus routes"
This was actually really informative with the interviews of people with differing opinions on the Pacers, Q&A with TfW staff, and cab view. Also, that "HST - High Screech Train" part got me good.
Absolutely awful trains, good riddance to bad rubbish. Looking at all the new rolling stock that is now available, it makes Pacers 4th class. Used to commute on them and they had those terrible long uncomfortable leather seats 3 on one side, 2 on the other. Thank god they have gone.
I'm pretty sure they are 5th class. Wagons look more comfortable than these railbuses.
Aye but back in t'day they were thought to be reet posh compared to t'other trains on Rochdale loop (I miss that loop the trams are no replacement - much slower!!)
How dare you make me see your comment Im interested in any train i like all kinds big small slow fast heavy light whatever
Just think you are on a bus.
"You can't leave your assignments until the eleventh hour."
The TOCs had over a decade head start to retire the Pacers and they still needed an extension! 😂
Pacers could be nice and warm on freezing Yorkshire mornings and having opening windows meant that on hot days it could be cool without having unreliable air conditioning.
And yes I have been rained on in one!
Yes, but on the other hand the sound of the running train in the toilet was louder than anything I've heard before, and seating was extremely cramped.
You mean you used to get one of the few Yorkshire pacers where the heating worked!? You lucky so-and-so!!
@@CountScarlioni it worked on most of the ones I traveled on about 5 years ago. you just needed to know where to sit ;)
@@petedenton9434 You mean you actually got a seat on the train? Luxury! ;p
I do absolutely agree with the usefulness of openable windows though. These more modern trains with sophisticated air-con systems become unbearable hothouses the moment it breaks down.
Despite all their flaws, the Pacer will always have a special place in my heart as it was the train that took me to visit Nan in Shildon.
LIGHT RAIL they are . Wouldn't it be nice if they were used in city roads separated city roads
was riding frequently when I was in university of liverpool back in 2015-2019, sadly (happily) it's gone, was a special memory
loves from a British railway fan in China
Ah the memories of the Pacer going around the long bend at Gateshead travelling from Sunderland to Newcastle - ear shattering!
Absolutely amazing that units built for a 20 year lifespan ran for over four decades in daily service. Credit to the builders and the caretakers for jobs well done. As a side note, the proper name for those 'Flappy doors' style of operation is 'Blinker Doors'. Excellent video.
Blinker doors are fun.
Interesting fact: a locomotive called a rail bus still exists in sri lanka. Its also comprised of a Leyland bus and the bogie. It still operates.
Yes yes true
I'm not really into trains or railways, but you've managed to get me feeling all nostalgic here - well done!
Just want to say, 769002 failed this morning and a 67 rescued it!
The Pontypridd Pacers. Fond and happy memories of them from my university days. Squeak Rattle and Roll.
Lovely words Graeme
Pontypridd is my home station! I spent many years of my life commuting on these trains, and nostalgia aside no-one locally is going to miss them.
Correct. I'm in Caerphilly and I cannot remember the last time I was given the dubious misfortune of travelling on a nodding donkey-as I called them.....
@@markcf83 Nice you will welcome fresh equipment, enjoy!
@@donaldstanfield8862 hardly fresh. I rode on the 769's when they were brand new and on Thameslink services in London.....
Never really understood the issue, also commuted daily on them for quite a while and never really had an issue. The noise and movement had no impact on whether I got to where I need to be. And even at their coldest in winter, I was wearing clothes for winter - and considering they were normally packed it was rarely that cold or even close to as cold as outside.
I was in shock when I started working in Manchester 5 years ago that such atrocious monstrosities existed, talk about a North South divide. Until I experienced Northern trains I had assumed Southern were the worst rail franchise. BTW your Welsh version looks like luxury compared to the ones servicing Burnley :) Good riddance to bad rubbish!
I mean, I love vintage trains a lot, but...I'm sorry, I'm firmly with Becca on this one xD THE SCOURGE OF THE PACER MENACE IS FINALLY OVER!!
And to be fair, I'm happy that some will still be around on heritage railways - for those that do have some affection for them, that's great!
Also I was going to comment on Becca not having a facemask on, then I noticed the Sunflower lanyard she was wearing - that's the 'medical exemption' lanyard, right?
Wonderful video, as always, Geoff!
Your editing remains on point and I really like the typeface you used for the station names!
Also, "flappy doors" strongly reminds me of "slidey windows, slammy doors" 😄
I work in the building about 1/4 a mile from Cardiff Queen Street, we can hear every single Pacer coming into the station with its distinct screeching it will be weird to not hear that again.
It's like working in a building above an underground station in London.
You work? Wow, considering your username I’m surprised you can make it out of your house! Well done. Must be a nightmare to work with.
I spent 2 nights on the “wrong” side of the Ibis hotel close to Queen st station.. that was a rude awakening 😳
@@Gigachad-kb1pp shut up!
@@Gigachad-kb1pp huh
The very first time I went to England, the very first train I took in England was a pacer. It ran from Manchester Airport to Wigan Wallgate. I remember wondering if it really was the right train I had gotten in or not.
I was waiting to exit the train in one side, when an man told me in the most northern accent I had ever heard at that point in my life, that the platform was on the other side. I had to ask him to repeat a few times before I understood him.
I was a Driver with BR back in the 1990s and spent much of my time with these "lovely" units. I can't think of anything good to say about the 142(the ones we had), so I will mention a funny story, one of my colleagues was heading up to Preston one day with a 142 trailing a 158..... anyway on arrival a really annoyed guard comes up to the cab and says "for the love of god slow down!!" he had forgotten he had a 142 trailing and had run from Wigan to Preston at 90mph.....might be the only time a 142 got that quick!
THAT! would have been a squeaky bumpy ride .. .oh my great story - thanks MJC!
Geoff, you went through Queen Street while I was waiting there, and I didn't even realise!
Damn it!
😆 🤣 😂
Simply wonderful, Geoff. And as always, I´ve learned som much from you film; not the least that I have to lament the fact I never mad it (from Sweden) to ride on a Pacer. Or maybe there will a heritage/museum one in the future...
When I moved to Leeds a few years ago, Pacers were running a lot on the line and oh boy could you hear them. But in an odd way, even though I didn't see them for too long, I do miss the awful screeching they made. If nothing else, they had a character a lot of trains don't.
Good riddance. Horrible pieces of metal. It’s a disgrace how long the pacer was kept in service. I’ve sat in better trains in Croatia and Romania and at least in those countries the fairs are cheap
Flappydoors!
I remember them being brought in as a replacement for the far nicer running stock between Paignton & Exmouth (were they 150s?) - everyone was hoping they were a temporary measure whilst the other DMUs were being cleaned up, but sadly not. Not sure what they did with the better coaches but I was glad to not have to commute for much longer once the Pacers appeared
I'll believe it when I dunk the very last Pacer into a molten furnace a la Terminator 2.
They cannot self terminate 😆
Was in the UK in 2018, took one train that was operated by a Pacer (from Hull to York) and lucked out by getting the one prototype unit.
The prototype was the class 140, which was taken out of service in 1986, so not sure what you mean, here.
@@beeble2003 I meant 144012 which was the demonstration of a potential upgrade to the fleet:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_144#Class_144e
Good job on the subtitling!
Ha! Having followed you for a while now, it's funny to see my local station pop up in one of your videos. I want to be sad that the Pacers have gone but having spent all my train travelling life rattling about on these things under various names - Valley Lines anyone? - I'm looking forward to something a bit more modern. The 21st century awaits...!
I’m pretty sure there are pacers on our local heritage line, but I get your point. Personally. I hate them. I had to get them when I commuted to Leeds from Selby in 2009-ish. Terrible things. Squeeeeeeeeeeeeak! Screeeeeeeeech! 🤣
Same over in Halifax where the valley will be a different, less psychosis inducing place without the "SCRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEECH!" noises echoing through the town every 15 minutes.
I can’t lie, I have been looking forward to this day for years.
Had to use these Pacers on my commute everyday at one point 😂
Lovely video Geoff, sad day it must have been, however, heritage railways are getting them so the haters won't be ridded of the bumpiness just yet
It's good for some of them to be preserved, and I'm all for heritage railways running special pacer days. However they'd better not be tempted to run them in regular service because frankly I'd expect them to pay _me_ to have to ride on them!
I once dated a girl, about 10 years ago from Rhymney Valley and I remember we got the train from there down to Cardiff for the day and I, having never seen a Pacer, I was staggered when I boarded one of these in 2010 like what on earth is this 😂. I loved it.
Goodbye Pacers, you will always Pace in our hearts
Most of them have been preserved by comparison the 314 which is in your profile picture has had 0/16 preserved units
@@n1thmusic229 oh, well we still got Pacers. Yep my profile is the Class 314 (Train Sim World 2 Glasgow Cathcart Circle)
@@WCML730 Well 1 314 remains it will be converted to hydrogen but maybe if we start a petition it could be converted back to a 314, put in Carmine and Cream livery and preserved
Let's not forget that 1 of those hated bus on rails, was involved in a crash near Crewe station. They are dangerous, and should have been scrapped immediately after the accident. This is something that is NEVER mentioned.
After ‘Allotment’, it’s ‘Flappy Doors’ 😂
For those interested ....
You can drive a pacer train at Yorkshire steelworks at the museum 👍
The Germans have a saying: “Nichts hält länger als ein Provisorium.” Nothing lasts longer than a stopgap. The pacer proves it.
While some rail fans might mourn their disappearance from afar, I’m sure it is a great relief for commuters, mobility-impaired or otherwise.
The damage these things did to spines across the country, I think they made the formerly fit and healthy into the mobility-impaired that were their downfall
"Three stops past the screech". Genuine directions given to guests coming to my home station by my parents
They were interesting for their novelty value, but not for those who had to use them every day I guess. Even with the high-backed seats, the leg room was minimal. I'm not quite as tall as you, Geoff, as you know (I'm about 5'8"), but even I was struggling, always looking for a "bay" seat if possible, and then hoping no-one would sit opposite. Removal of just one row of seats each side would have made a difference. I can quite understand why you liked to do press-ups on them, or walk around a bit !!
Wow, no chance of getting my wheelchair into that.
“Guess what station” brought me way back: suburban line out of Philadelphia- two stations next each other are
Gladstone
and
Lansdowne
Now imagine those called out in a train conductor’s voice...
I never knew when I’d missed my stop!
At least here in the UK there'd have been a bit more difference between the two as Gladstone would generally be pronounced glad'stun.
In Danish every station name sounds the same :D :D
Ahh, that squealing round the curve from Queen Street to Central. I remember it well. I rode those Pacers a lot back when I lived in the Cynon Valley, especially when I worked in Whitchurch. Got clouted by the doors opening a few times during really busy rides as well. It's been years since I rode one but it is sad to hear they're going. The reason for it is good though.
Oh Maaaannnnn, I remember when they came into service!
Chanced by that Pacer more by luck than judgement not realising it was their last day. Farewell Squeelers. Great tribute Geoff.
Thanks, Geoff, happy memories of my time in Cardiff, 1977-80!
Pacing - up and down :)
Weren't these called 'nodding donkey' trains ?
Yep. And for very good reason, bless 'em!
V happy to see the back of them. Their buslike doors always felt like a putdown of the South Wales lines, into virtual bus routes, hence challenge to their worth of being trains.
If anyone missed out, the British Steel works in Scunthorpe does pacer footplate days. I did one last month and it was really good fun, but maybe that's lockdown changing my expectations.
I heartlily agree with Becca at 3:04 glad to see the back of the pacers, after commuting between Barry and Pontypridd on them for many years .
Same! Anyone romanticising the pacer clearly hasn't screeched through Tondu at 5 agonising miles an hour.
@@lowri.williams or round the curve from Queen Street to Central
@@Welshman2008 Yep! Orchestra of doom.
If your a fan of Fireman Sam. Pontypridd is supposed to be Pontypandy! As well as it's sister town next door, Tonypandy.
Geoff: The pacer replacer
Dont you mean the Repacer lol
Edit: Holy 15 Likes! It’s the most I’ve had on a comment
So glad this video popped up, very informative and entertaining however I for one will be glad to see the back of them, my heart sank whenever waiting on a platform and this hateful train rolled in, a train which embodies the worst of British Engineering and manufacturing when it adopts the “mend and make do” mentality - when we put our minds do it we accomplish so much greater things! Goodbye Pacer 👋. RIP 🪦 No flowers please.
"You saved my life.
(Tom Jones, Tom Jones)"
I see what you did there, sneaky but good Space reference. Cooool. Good band.
Also, goodbye to the true workhorses of the modern railway.
I think I’ve got that album somewhere!
The first time I got a Pacer I thought it was a fun little quirky train. After one particularly hungover trip home from Manchester though, I decided I'd definitely had enough of their bumping and screeching!
I never liked the pacers. They're always rough and uncomfortable, only marginally improved by refurbished seating. I won't miss them, but am glad they're being preserved as part of modern railway history. What I won't like to see go will be the Sprinters. I have a special place in my heart for sprinters, as ever since I was little, I'd see them and think "The coach is moving on its own!". Plus the Class 158s always have ultra comfortable, high-back seats and large windows that prevent motion sickness for me. I ride one every time I see my friend in Borth, and are just as good as the 175s in North Wales!
158s are better than the 175s I find less of a step with them more of a leap of faith, as for sprinters thankfully they can be a walkthru train coupled up (153/156/158) but they're next on the hit list especially the 153 units several are rusting away in Burton upon trent now homeless,
A special trip to travel on the most hated trains in Britain. They were a real pain to put bikes on as I once had to do travelling from Newcastle to Carlisle. I was to ride the cycle C2C from Whitehaven to Tynemouth. I decided to ride from Carlisle to Whitehaven rather than take the train for that stretch.
That said, Pacer or not, the Newcastle-Carlisle (Tyne Valley) line is a favourite of mine.
Hi Geoff, thanks for sharing these, well, trains, sort of. Just as a side note, out Southeastern Class 395 Javelins have a wooden ladder in the emergency cupboard
Usually these were packed with commuters when I traveled along the line between Leeds and Sheffield. The windows were streaming with condensation, there were squeaks and squeals everywhere. The driver would rev the tits off the thing before it would set off. Looking down into the adjacent carriage you’d see the thing rocking like a bouncy castle, it was a miracle that passengers weren’t flying about. Notable that BR didn’t inflict these things on the South East. That ex Thameslink Pacer had individual seats, ours had hateful park-bench style nicked off a bus.
They’ve gone, not going to miss these things at all.
This is a sad day 😞 I have fond memories of riding Northern Rail pacers between Hull and Doncaster and Blackpool to Preston. Yes they were rubbish, but it’ll be strange not seeing them again. End of an era. Thanks for documenting it Geoff!
Ah the Pacer ..or the Boneshaker ..also the doors would spontaneously open mid journey..
The Pacer reminds me of the Tyne and Wear metro cars, designed to last 20 years and 40 years later, about to be replaced.
I never had a problem with the Pacers, probably because I rarely used them. That bend going from Gateshead to Newcastle, the squealing trains *shudders*
I think their also similar in they both screech around curves and the super bouncy ride
Manchester to Blackpool Pleasure Beach. One of these on the final leg from Preston to BPB many a time (now replaced by the equally awful Sprinters, although at least some of the Northern Fail 158s have sprouted WiFi and chargers in recent years!)
Your vlogs are gems! Love every one of them. I’ve learned so much.
Good riddance to the ghastly things. Loud, stinking, slow and uncomfortable. For me, they've always been a symbol of Westminster's unwillingness to invest in anywhere but the capital.
Mark my words: In a couple of years they'll be opening a Heritage ride dedicated purely to the Pacers. There'll be fairground rides, toys and we'll start missing them.
So the Pacer was a stop gap just like the HSTs, so when Brits plan a short term project expect it to live much longer than intended. Just look at the original 1948 Land Rover, only intended to last until the postwar economy recovered but lived on until 2016
I learnt when i went to uni in Pontypridd and I live in Swansea to Break the Journey up it works out Cheaper but I get a discount on valley lines with my concessionary bus pass
It is sad when anything leaves, the pacers included, but my God they were terrible. I might even say good riddance
Pacers are really a ‘love’ or ‘hate’ train
What country is going to buy these trains secondhand? Surely they are far too new to be scrapped having only started service in the 1980s; the similar Malaxa railcars in Romania are over 85 years old and still going.
RIP the pacer, the cute train no one liked but secretly loves
Here on our busses someone made a typo on the dot matrix indicator and going one direction the bus properly displayed and read out "Springfield and Gordon" but going the other way it said "Springfrld and Gordon" which was really funny
One of the things i loved to do way back in my younger years was to stand astride the gap between carriages, it was like a mini funhouse :D
the 142's were the worst, used to commute into Manchester for years on them, the tracks round Ashburys were especially bad.
Glad I was able to help make the video accessible! My sister lives near a railway curve in Cardiff and a loaded coal train makes less noise than a pacer!
That lady was most definitely from the valleys 😂😂
I still play "Guess which station I'm at" with many a Flixbus and Megabus. Even if they have a PA, it's impossible to hear what the drivers slur and mumble. :D
Oh, nice to see their last day. I remember them fondly (?) from my days in Greater Manchester when GMPTE (predecessor to Transport for Greater Manchester) deployed them as a way of improving some of the commuter routes in the early 80s. Actually, as a student, I lived in digs near the Altrincham-Hazel Grove line, so we didn’t see them on a daily basis, having much older slam-door stock, and occasional weekend trips out to more exotic locales involving Pacers made them seem impossibly exotic - and modern. Automatic doors! GMPTE opened a new station at a place called Flowery Field (which sounds like it should be on the Magic Roundabout) served by Pacers in their orange and brown Greater Manchester Transport livery, which featured much in advertising the new station!
I call pacers the CHST's. This stands for Cheap High Squeak Trains
So I'll never be able to ride a Pacer train. So sad (not!). I hate Pacers and I don't even live in the UK.
Hope you'll be there for the last Metro in Newcastle
The screeching is cause by the wheelbase length not the number of wheels. The wheelbase of the bogie is much shorter allowing them to go around tighter curves than a fixed long wheelbase vehicle.
Lol, the speedo goes to 100, err no thank you.
No more squeaky than a class 700 going into St Pancras Thameslink from Farringdon though.
7:44 before all the dot matrix and PA i remember that "guess what station am i at " game. carried a map everywhere
the noise is like the mark1 or mark 11 skytrain cars we have in vancouver bc canada same style car too and built in the 1980's and yes we have newer cars on it but if ever come over here try the old skytrain cars.
Ahh, I cycled over that bridge once. Then I went into Caerphilly and got my nipple pierced. Those were the days ;)
New Zealand has 1960s DMUs almost like the pacer as they were imported from Ausie from Standard Guage to NZ Narrow so we're much taller than the platform. Bought in for private use in 1996 and actually restored public trains on Auckland the biggest city. ADL/ADK units. Also Mk2 BR Cars converted also for use.