The new German double-decker train that everybody HATES!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- This is Deutsche Bahn's new Twindexx Intercity 2 train, a controversial addition to the DB fleet. Does this double-decker train really deserve the hate it gets? Let's find out today, as I travel from Nuremburg to Stuttgart in First Class.
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Journey Details:
Origin: Nürnberg Hbf
Destination: Stuttgart Hbf
Company: Deutsche Bahn (DB)
Train: DB 147.5 + Intercity 2 'Twindexx Vario'
Accommodation: First Class Seat (1st)
Distance: 203 kilometres / 126 miles
Price: €33.80 (£28.40 / $34.40)
Time: 2 hours 10 minutes, arrived 9 minutes late
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Find me elsewhere:
superalbs.weeb...
/ superalbs
/ superalbstravels
/ superalbstravels
Among Germans this train has earned the nickname Teppich RE, transalating to carpet Regional train, which describes it pretty well
And i have no Problem with it.
Die Bahn hätte ihn ja auch mit einer Zulassung von 189 km/h bestellen können… Aber die Strecken sind ja ‘für diese Geschwindigkeit nicht ausgelegt‘.
@@AntonasBWklar sind sie das größtenteils. Nur ist es unnötig weil ICEs für diese Strecken da sind
@@AntonasBW These units run on following >= 200 km/h tracks:
Köln-Hannover-Dresden (~ 700 km)
(parallel) Hannover-Leipzig
Köln-Bremen
Nürnberg-Regensburg
München-Augsburg
Karlsruhe-Frankfurt-Erfurt-Leipzig (~ 500 km)
@@valentin6824Ich liebe IC 2
The IC2 is a RE with white paint. Not more, not less. People complain, because of this re-branding. If they just call it "RE", nobody would complain. But by branding it as "IC" they make more money... Same with some former IC routes which are now converted to ICE without actually improving travel times. It's all about making more and more money and therefore it's fair to complain.
Wrong it does not stop at most of the Stations an RE would. The IC is faster and has less stops
@alphafoxy8503 Sure, the RE stops more, but it barely makes a difference. Between Nürnberg and Stuttgart, for instance, the time difference between IC and RE is about 10 minutes. On a journey of more than 2 hours, it doesn't justify triple the cost.
Leave the country before its too late! //
@@freibert Bro I am born in germany
@@xBrisusing the RE on this route is extremely unrealiable. It is very often cancelled or has a low capacity. Also it runs only every 2 hour.
I think most of the dislike for these trains comes not necessarily from what they are, but from what they are marketed as. As medium distance trains, they seem perfectly pleasant, but they carry the once prestigeous InterCity name. An IC without a restaurant car and somewhat tight double deck interior just doesn't feel right, even if it's totally fine on medium distance journeys.
They weirdly fit right into the former product category of InterRegio that was discontinued in the 2000s, medium to long distance trains that also serve smaller places which otherwise wouldn't get intercity services. In fact, some IC2 routes are basically reintroductions of old IR lines. I wonder what the public perception of these trains would be if they were marketed as "the new InterRegio".
There's one quirk of the trains I wanna mention: They are loco hauled, as shown in the video, but they act as fixed units. That means that you can't separate any car, including the locomotive, from the set outside of a maintainance facility. IIRC that allows the doors to be centrally monitored from the cab, which wouldn't otherwise be possible, but the disadvantage is that if the locomotive breaks, you can't replace it easily and a rescue loco will have to haul the broken one with it as dead weight, or more likely, the train just gets cancelled outright.
They are lacking a plethora of comfort markers of the old intercity rolling stock, including variation in seating options, ride comfort, velocity and such stupid things as "how one broken toilet affects the train"...
@@theodorthegreathe They are definitely incomparable to the old IC rolling stock, but I don't think it's useful to compare them. The old IC trains are being replaced by ICEs, especially with the ICE L coming in 2025. Those can actually compete with the comfort of the old ICs. The IC2s are (mostly) used on routes where the lower comfort, the lack of a proper buffet car and lower top speed don't matter as much, so they aren't really a replacement for the old IC. That's why I think it's not worth comparing IC and IC2 and why the IC2 lable might not be the best choice.
Completely agree with you on the error in marketing it as an IC.
You just triggerd my memories of those awful InterRegio trains. Gees they were awful. Like sitting on a plastic seat.
Yes. The IC was once the descendant of the 'Grand trains' like the Rheingold.
"well maintained german track system" you gotta be joking
*in comparison to other countries
As an Austrian I had to laugh hard. Until I remembered that people have died as a result of poor track maintenance by DB (Burgrain 2022).
@@to_loww Yes. But that's all to blame to politics... Traindriver speaking.
It's mostly extremely well maintained - track quality in Germany in terms of geometry, smoothness etc is leagues ahead of France, Italy, or Britain
@@to_lowwBAHAHAHA you’re Austrian, you’re like desperately looking for a flaw and then plunging on it like a hyena 😂 so bitter
You mentioned the pretty well top speed of 160km/h. The sad part is that this is the top speed of most double decker RE trains and many other RE trains. The old IC's have a top speed of 200km/h.
Yes. On a technical level, "high-speed" trains in Germany are those above 160kmh. That's when you need all new train controls and safety measures and more strict track geometries. So from that perspective these trains are not even high-speed ones.
In Mexico the Abuela Killer a.k.a. Tren Maya is high speed at 160 km/h but in reality anything above 100 km/h is "ludicrous speed" considering the infrastruscture we have.
Most of the railway network is downgraded to 160km/h anyway ... it happens with the time as the tolerances are tight for 200km/h (the upper limit of 200km/h is most often the lower limit for 160km/h and on the lower limit you don't need to do a risk assessment ... if you are constantly on the upper limit on all tolerances it's not feasible to maintain the tracks as you are in constant repairing the tracks). There was a 340km/h track and it's now down to 260km/h as it was not possible to maintain it in the long term (they cut the stop at audi-city as nearly nobody ever exit or enter the trains there).
Even more sad if you consider, that the twindexx double deckers are available with a top speed of 200 km/h (used in Belgium)
'The new German double-decker train that everybody HATES!' describes a video about a clean, smooth and silent riding train, while 'This is the INCREDIBLE new Dutch high-speed train!' explains to us, that the brand new dutch IC train is annoyingly noisy and evermore so dirty. (from 11:50 in the latter video)
I see someone got indulged in the German art of complaining about everything :D
If you use these car as your daily commuter train, or even for, ' metro', you just get disappointed to put this design originated from 1965 in the category of high speed trains.
It's not about the car itself, it's about calling it Intercity.
People are mixing this with the Intercity express.
In Holland you have no train running 8 hours in one direction.
If you confirm it's designed for a 2 hour ride, you are exactly right.
For 8 hours you need more comfort.
@@holger_p If people are confused and mistake an IC to an ICE, that's their fault. Also, 8hrs on any long distance train is not necessarily desirable. Doable, but not my wildest dream.
So, to see what this 8hrs-argument is all about, I checked the fares from Cologne to Dresden for a random date in August. With some 7.5hrs, this is close enough to 8hrs. It's actually more expensive than the faster ICE. Looks like DB defines this service to establish better connections *along* this route, not from start-to-finish. Same logic applies to Leipzig-Karlsruhe/7hrs. ICE is faster and cheaper.
And as far as I know there are 3 types of IC2 in operation. The two newer models are capable of speeds of 200km/h. Just like the original IC1.
Hey, I LOVE these!!! For one specific reason: i have two young kids, and the family area in most long distance trains is a disaster: close to the restaurant in the middle of the train, always full, lots of people coming through all the time, it's never relaxed unless you get a spot in the tiny, cramped small kids compartment (which is, well, cramped and tiny). Now on these trains, there is a whole family deck, upstairs, on the end of the train. It's super quiet and relaxed. Nobody bothers you. The kids can roam freely. The ride is super smooth. The view is excellent. Yeah, there is no restaurant, but i don't get to enjoy it anyway. The sandwiches are surprisingly nice, and as long as i get coffee i'm fine.
Edit: And i rode this exact line last summer! It was excellent!
Edit 2: The wide doors and entry areas are also a major plus for everyone who squeezes in with lots of luggage, kids and, god forbid, a stroller.
Good to hear these pros!
Thanks for your perspective! Trains need to work for a wide variety of people with different needs!
A family section in the last car is a good idea. Is this unique to German trains? Never see it mentioned on British trains for example. Two toilets per car is also great. I am surprised that a restaurant car (or a buffet section) is expected on a trip of only two hours 10 minutes; where I live nobody expects a buffet car on an intercity trip of 2 hours 30 minutes, nor do they care that there isn't one. Mind you, "where I live" is an Australian state (NSW) into which Germany can fit two and a half times (and even has two time zones, it's that big).
@@ktipuss since i have kids all my long distance travels have been on ICE trains, and they all have the family zone close to the Bistro car in the middle of the train, which is good, but also problematic because everybody going to grab a snack will walk through there.
The expectation, i think, results from DB categorizing - and pricing - these trains as Inter City trains. Normally ICs serve much longer routes (yet slower than an ICE) where you would expect more service. When i was a student, they still had an intermediate category called Inter Regio and Inter Regio Express, which also covered longer distances, but had more stops and served smaller stations. No idea if these are still around. Having said that, i think the reason why they called this an Inter City route is that this is a very wealthy part of Germany and they can charge more this way.
@@ktipuss This example trip is not the full length of this line, as I understand. And there are some other lines where these trains are used. (But I also never use the on-board gastronomic services, they are just overpriced.)
Your German pronunciation is really impressive! Certainly more impressive than these trains. ;)
I'd like to see a comparison video with the other IC trains btw (the Stadler ones).
IC2 bombardier vs stadler ic2 vs ic1
And perhaps also an RE comparison on those routes, where the IC2 Twindexx is almost completely useless since services either similarly fast or equal exist, like between Koblenz and Frankfurt, where there are RE Twindexxes going between or Wuppertal and Cologne, where the same rails are used.
Even though the Twindexx IC2 does not match the quality of the old IC 1, I think the train is somehow ok. The issue that I have with this train that it just does not make sense on the routes I travel (Karlsruhe - Stuttgart). On the same route a regional train (Stadler Flirt 3) is operated which can be used with the 49€ ticket without any extra charge and which is sometimes even scheduled faster than the IC 2.
Same goes for Nürnberg-Stuttgart
Yeah, this line does not have any high speed rail (at least until Bamberg-Fürth is finished), so from Nürnberg to Stuttgart its only 15-20 minutes faster due to lack of stops.
It makes sense if you would have to change (e.g. if you go Karlsruhe-Nürnberg or Ansbach-Bamberg) or if you don't have a 49€ ticket on a longer trip
@@wernerderchamp since there is the RE90 from Stuttgart to Nürnberg, which u can use with a valid DTicket, this is even more hilarious
Wasnt there an IC2 going Stuttgart-Konstanz too? What happened to it? If I remember correctly you could use the dticket on it
I also used it rarely yet, only in March last year I went from Braunschweig to Leipzig with the IC and it was fine (took around 2 hours), however, I went to Leipzig again in October and because of the D-Ticket took the RB40 to Magdeburg (takes around 70 minutes) and then the RE13 to Leipzig (around 1:40) with around 45 minutes changing time (you can comfortably buy some groceries in the Kaufland in the nearby City Caree or have a breakfast/lunch etc.) but all together it almost takes a whopping four hours...
Berlin is even faster with the ICE it takes only 1:30 while you need almost four with the regional RE40 to Magdeburg and then the RE1 (operated by ODEG and they use Siemens Desiro HC trains, these are an interesting combination of single- and double-decker), also with around 45 minutes waiting time in between.
Germans: Hate the train.
Australians: I wish we had such a luxurious service for such short intercity hops.
I am german and I like the IC2 ;)
That's german national sports for ya: Complaining about ANYTHING. Even about good stuff.
east coast of australia has a really good train line but it's pretty limited in scope
You know it's gonna be good when the locomotive looks like it's wearing a container.
I never got how that could aerodynamically make any sense. But Bombardier has to know..
Wanna experiance more container? look up BR 155
@@djytonly5653 wasn't ment to be used like this. Bombardier had made this design choice so operators could easily use branding als the sides of the Traxx AC3 locomotive is one big 'flex' panel where in only a few hours a flexible panel could be installed :-) Unfortunately only a handful of locomotives received such a panel hence why this feature was removed from the Track MS3/DC3
What does "wearing a container" mean?
@@moover123 "looks like a container"
The thing is, the old Intercity was *the* premium product of DB back when it was introduced. The legendary TEE trains were included in the IC scheme.
So IC's were the fastest and most comfortable way to travel on German rails. When the ICE was introduced, this changed and the classic IC had to find a new role. But for years, the difference was mostly just the speed (IC up to 200km/h, ICE depending on the specific train 230-320km/h) and the age of the trains and sort of playing into that their comfort (partly still manual doors on IC, louder background noises, only partially fitted with AC etc.). But the rest was mostly the same.
And I think the IC 2 is a continuation of the differentiation process that DB is trying to achieve here. They're trying to downgrade it to make it distinct from ICE trains and to be able to offer long distance services (which in Germany are not subsidised at all, they have to make a profit!) to smaller towns and cities which otherwise may not get it.
That's the reason why DB introduced the extended IC line from Nürnberg to Leipzig via Bamberg, Saalfeld and Jena. While that line used to have ICE connections to Berlin and Munich every two hours, as soon as the high speed line opened, they all disappeared and moved to the HSL. All that was left was a single IC per day. Now they turned it up to five per day.
That's what the new IC brand is meant for. Long distance services for smaller lines away from high speed corridors at reasonable prices. But with a clear distinction in comfort from DB's premium offer. So yea, you can complain all you like, but I believe it was intentional. Maybe not in this specific way which is essentially just a white painted regional train fitted with carpet (Teppich-RE) but a clear downgrade to its ICE's.
That's at least my opinion.
Uuuf, too long🫣
But why would people travelling to these smaller cities want less comfort? I mean, less comfort for cheaper trains is okay, but as I understand there won't usually be a competition between ICE and these ICs on the same route.
ICE 1st class was above anything else for any European traveler, probably even better than Shinkansen's. In that respect I don't see IC 2 as a similar case of differentiation, it isn't worth the moniker imho, if anything it is as close to being RE 2 but it would get confusing as it doesn't make regional stops, so the way I see it it's neither one of them, it's another type of train for which they chose a more appealing name.
Looking at the trains, they are now using RE trains known for decades with a slightly different interior but less stops and longer routes
You describe it well, almost like you work for DB. But it is still a reduction in quality and amenity for passengers and a crass attempt to improve profitability for DB. Less comfort, less space, less room for luggage, less food and drink options and what there is is truck stop quality. This is absolutely a loss for passengers…
Go-Ahead is now owned by ÖBB which makes it an Austrian operator.
🤓☝
They also operate in England (Thameslink, Great Northern, Gatwick express) so the confusion makes sense. But yeah the owner is the Austrian State
@@MrJimheeren They're going to rebrand soon.
Better to say Austrian-Spanish operator 51-49%
@@BJHolloway1 Australian (not Austrian)-Spanish!
And they sold off their German subsidiary to the Austrian (not Australian) Federal Railways.
6:24 Johann Sebastian Bach never visited Ansbach, let alone lived there.
Maybe they confused it with Arnstadt? Bit of a stretch, though.
@@th60of There's a Festival dedicated to Bach in Ansbach, maybe this was some kind of translation error from german to english (also small towns in germany usually are in desperate search of some uniqueness :) )
@@th60of There is a big Bach festival in Ansbach every year. Perhaps he has seen some posters.
The name Ansbach does however "contain" Bach's surname 😂
Its water.
No restaurant being on the train is the biggest disappointment for me.
For me this is the only big downside. I really like the double decker and the seats are okay. It's really annoying that it doesn't have it, regional makes sense but it's a IC
Only ICEs have a restaurant/bistro nowadays.
It’s only a 2 hours ride so it’s not to bad on this route. Sadly DB has been fading out the restaurant car on all non high speed long distances routes. So now the Amsterdam-Berlin connection (more then 6 hours) is also without its iconic restaurant, one of my favorite trains in the world
On THIS train. In Germany, a missing restaurant car is something rare on IC services. In Romania... It's pretty usual.
@@XTREAMER5423 there are no IC services in Germany that have a restaurant car
honestly, your closing comment is well on point. IC1 is replaced mostly by ICE 4 or ICE L trains; only secondary routes are served by IC 2. As someone travelling between major cities on a daily basis, it's rare that I spend more than an hour or two in one of those and then they are just fine. Germany's national sport is complaining, just keep that in mind ;)
IC2 is the new Interregio
For me, there is one big advantage to these trains: Their price! Yes, they are not nearly as comfortable as a modern ICE, but in my experience, tickets are significantly cheaper. In an ideal world, most long distance routes would be served by both. A fast and very comfortable ICE network and an IC-service that is slower, connects smaller towns and is cheaper. Also, the cheaper operating costs enables DB to connect cities where other trains would simply not be economical. Sadly, that is not how Deutsche Bahn has branded this train...
And if they're 20 minutes late, you can take an ICE anyway, and might even reach your destination earlier than scheduled.
In my experience the doppeldecker runs way better than the old ones
If these train stops at most smaller cities, what does set them apart from RE trains? If most people are unhappy that this is just an upbranded RE with a higher price tag, you are happy because it's not as expensive as an ICE? That's a good view to be happy in life ;)
@@boatMatthias The routes are longer than the typical RE routes, e.g. you can go from Dortmund to Frankfurt or from Cologne to Stuttgart on them. Also, most REs still stop more often than the IC 2 routes, the ICs just tend to stop more often than ICEs.
@@boatMatthias Yes, they do stop at smaller cities, but there are two things that set them apart from REs. First, REs don't only stop at smaller cities, but also at a lot of villages and multiple times per city. So the IC stops less frequently. 2nd, the ICs generally don't travel on the same routes as REs, but serve much longer lines (like Dresden - Cologne or Leipzig - Karlsruhe). To go the same route by RE, you would have to switch trains probably 4 times
I recently went on the double decker from Munich to Stuttgart. As a British person I was absolutely blown away by it. If we had that back home we'd be closer to having a decent railway network, but saying that..ours would probably break down every 5 minutes and be delayed by a year.
Remember: Germans always complain, regardless of how good or bad something is.
I'm quite sure about that because I'm a German myself.
The UK introduced a too small clearance gauge for trains more than 100 years ago, therefore there is not enough space above British tracks for doubledecker rail vehicles.
Germans always complain, especially concerning Deutsche Bahn. Even if you give them the best trains in the world for free, they will still be considered to be bad and expensive.
@@kantharos That's a common misconception, whilst you aren't entirely incorrect though, there are quite a few lines where the clearance is higher. I remember seeing a study conducted years back and roughly 20% of the network could use modern double decker trains, and the rest could accommodate a special design. It would mean crouching to get to your seats though but it's definitely doable on high capacity lines for the average commuter. Comfy? Probably not, but doable.
@@JackRoseTravels The good old make, do and mend attitude. That's why everything in the UK is less than mediocre, whike fooling yourself it is the envy of the world or world beating.
Tangential note, but the remark at 6:29 is incorrect - Bach never lived in (or, as far as it seems to be known, even visited) Ansbach. Perhaps there is some confusion with Arnstadt here?
I love the style and the narration of your videos! I really enjoyed this one!
Keep up your work! ☺️❤️
Greetings from Switzerland!
Im from Nuremberg, and i've used this connection with the IC2 a couple of times, because its the fastest connection to the south-west of Germany and of course France which i liked to visit often. I have to say that i dont really get the hate on the train. For example, I travelled last Thursday back from Switzerland, where i had visited a friend of mine. From Basel to Karlsruhe i used the regional train which is thanks to the Deutschland-Ticket, very cheap to me. From Karlsruhe to Nuremberg i booked the IC2 and i booked the ticket for 2nd Class for just 20€ which is very cheap if we consider that i booked the ticket just 2 days before i used it and that by travelling for a wide distance with this train. By car it would have cost me a lot more. Also i think that the IC2 is very modern, cozy and overall very clean. It has the comfort of an ICE but the price of an regional train. I have to say that i do not use services like food or drinks and so on. I just use the train for travelling. I mean i do understand the hate, More than 2 hours to Stuttgart from Nuremberg is a joke, if we look at the Nuremberg-Munich-Connection which takes just an hour with the ICE but having nearly the same distance by air. I would really appreciate an ICE conncection from Nuremberg to Stuttgart and im often wondering why there isnt one, but as long as it does not exist, im happy that the IC line exists. For everybody who will use the IC2 in future, i wouldnt recommend buying a first class ticket, because for me - i traveled a single time in first class in IC2- the only advantage of the first class in IC2 is that there are single seats, for people who dont like others besides them.
I take this train from Nürnberg to Karlsruhe and back about once or twice a month. Yeah it's not super comfortable but it's fine and clean. Main problem is that the trains are more faulty than Windows ME! One in four journeys or more is interrupted by faulty fire alarms, broken doors, "software problems" and more. It's so frustrating.
I think it is running on windows ME.
As someone else said, some locos unironically run on Windows ME
Windows ME? Heathens! What's wrong with MS-DOS?
@@grizeldiSLO Was the hard drive for unix too expensive?
@@dennisbeier4011 No idea, I just listened to one of our local locomotive drivers ramble about having to wait for Windows to boot every time 😅
The vibe Germany gives off in every way, from railways to the countryside, ist sehr schön!
I still can't believe the delay was only 9 minutes.
as a german i was searching for this comment xD
12:06 I really want to see you make a video on this train.😊
As someone who was reliant on thesse trains for many years, I am really glad that now the Stadler IC2 are operating on most services I use. They are much more reliable and comfortable and provide a smoother train ride. Btw., I'm kinda surprised you didn't feel like traveling on a ship as you chose to sit on the upper level. In my experience they tend to shake a lot sometimes.
The Stadler ones are bought used from Westbahn and they're way better
I love these!
The KISS ones are better than the Twindexx ones, which basically are just REs with marginally better seats. The KISS in general is better than both the Twindexx and Desiro HC, even in it's RE variant used on the RE80 in Schleswig-Holstein.
The Desiro HC is not bad though - at least for now they are pretty new
As others have said, this is an RE painted white. It's not an IC. It's not an adequate replacement for the classic ICs which are almost gone.
On the Stuttgart - Singen Route you can Travel on the IC2 for free (if you have the deutschland ticket)
I wanted to say the same. A much better option then traveling on the bwegt trains, and you can buy at least some coffee on the way. I love them as a free RE Upgrade.
The same is between Bremen an Norddeich Mole, IC2 can be used with D-Ticket.
P.S.
Nürnberg is in the Frankonia part of Bavaria. A very important point for the Frankonian People
As an American, this is one of the best trains I’ve ever seen
Nice video. Just a remark: Nürnberg is technically part of the state of Bavaria and thus the “region of the Oktoberfest”, but culturally it belongs to Franconia, which has very different dialect, food, traditions etc. 🙂 It’s actually a wine region, not a beer region. Franconians would never call themselves Bavarians.
Most people travel in the second class, it is funny and difficult to understand why so many video creators are testing first class travels. Even journeys payed for by an employer have to be done with second class tickets in most cases.
I think that even second class passengers deserve seats bearable for more than just half an hour.
Your video raises the question where to store your luggage. I travelled a lot in the double decker coaches of DB regional trains, but the rack above the seats will not have enough space even for many hand bags. And you have to keep an eye on your belongings.
If the tracks allow, IC-trains reach 200 km/h, e.g. in Northern Germany or on the high speed lines. You travelled a more difficult line.
I sat in one from Cottbus Hbf to Hannover Hbf for over 6 hours in 2 klasse and it broke my back, I could not believe that a Regional train (Br 463) had better seats that an IC 2.
Six hours? Was there a detour?
@@avmz111 no just Signal and track issues that added 30 minutes
@@gulaschkarauski1384but why would you ever choose to take that route? I didnt even know it existed but i know the RE to Berlin takes 1 hr and the ICE from Berlin to Hannover takes 2 hours, why would you book a 5.5 hr train instead?
@@cooltwittertag it was convenient and ut was way cheaper than the ice as it was a rather sudden jorney
As a German it’s crazy hearing well maintained rails because that’s far from the truth DB is massively underfunded
The IC2 is such a rebranded regional service, that there's routes (e.g. IC34 Dortmund - Siegen), where you can ride it with your Deutschlandticket or regional subscription and not lose or gain any comfort or speed.
Isn't the IC34 only allowed to be used with normal tickets (or something equal), but not the DeutschlandTicket? Otherwise, it is the same and the Twindexx in the video wasn't even allowed to go faster than 160km/h.
On the Düsseldorf to Gera Intercity you get the old carriages and can use your regional tickets from erfurt to gera. The ticketing options are not so much about the rolling stock, but if the train replaces regional services
Switzerland has been using DoStos for two decades and no one has ever complained...
@@cehaem2 Switzerland is also tiny, the longest IC in Switzerland (St.Gallen-Geneva) is 363km, you can take Regionalexpress RE1 in Northrhine-Westphalia, which is 296km long, and barely cross half of the state.
@@chickenpommes19 It's not about the length of a service but the actual distance people travel on it. The main purpose of IC trains is to provide connectivity between smaller urban clusters. ICs fill in the gap between ICEs and REs. BTW: RE1 runs over a distance of only 220 km, RE6 is much longer. It used to be much longer in the past, running between Aachen and Minden.
Stadler KISS sets are coming into service on the newly electrified 80 kilometer - long suburban section between San Francisco and San Jose, California. The interiors and seating look very similar, even though the California line is considered a commuter suburban service.
I think the new IC units are actually ok for shorter journeys. I commute around Germany a lot and caught an IC from Leipzig Hbf to Jena and I found the journey very pleasant and the on train facilities adequate for just over an hour having said that I wouldn't want to stay on one all the way down to say Karlsruhe or Stuttgart
I absolutely agree. On journeys of up to two hours they are in order. They are just very noisy if you are sitting in the ends of the carriages due to the very poor insulating properties of the doors (designed for anything else). The problem is when you have to make journeys of more than three hours: they really are a nightmare in second class. I had to make a 6-hour journey, to which there was no alternative with higher-class trains. The problem is not that they only replaced the ex-IRs (gone for so many years), but the IC1s on the lines where they used to be. The fact that they have a fixed five-element composition makes the design quite meaningless. An inadequate train for the purpose, paid for dearly and caused an endless stream of problems. Polemical mode: it is no coincidence that the management that planned the purchase of the Twindexx (I don't know how many compositions are still with the manufacturer because they have been contested) and the ICE 4 (one of the least reliable high-speed train in Europe in terms of failures/km)* has been sent home. *I usually document these statements, but I cannot find the source on the fly.
@@ilfanto Thank you for pointing that out, ICE 4 is so bad I started using a connection with a change of trains and the risks involved to be on the ICE 3 arriving my destination relaxed and in a good mood rather than having a non-stop connection but needing a break and being done for the day with "being shipped" by lousy ICE 4 the whole five and a half hours.
What a surprise! In Switzerland we also have the Bombardier Twindexx and they also suck
Big time !
I don't like them on the IC1 :(
They don't suck on regional routes. The Schleswig-Holstein Express is one of the best regional services in the whole country. And it's run with Twindexx units too. But it's just not up to DB Fernverkehr's standards.
But aren't they quite different? Given the DB Twindexx uses a locomotive it has a completely different engine layout, was meant to have some tilting while the DB Twindexx are just a bunch of carriages like the IC2000 in Switzerland.
I had to take this train 4 times. Overall, I liked it, it was pretty nice and very quiet (which was surprising since I was in the 2nd class). But its reliability showed itself once... Gotta say, these trains have really good brakes😁
As soon as we departed we braked real hard and stayed at the station for about 40 minutes, until the train staff announced that we probably should board the RE90 if we want to get to Nuremberg as soon as possible. Now, imagine a small 3-door Stadler with the whole IC on board (it was probably around 150-200 people)... That's how we had to ride 1,5 h until our IC came
The IC2 is good enough for secondary intercity lines...It´s allright and comfortable..
I did the same journey on the same train and it was very confortable. Nothing to complain about.
Great Video, glad to see you travelling through my hometown 😊 I would love to see a video on the IC2 Stadler units!
I like these DD IC trains.
They look nice, are comfy and clean, stop at the rate normal IC trains do, got mostly working Wifi, I can use check-in via phone and they run smooth like ICEs on the tracks, better than the normal often very old ICs I would say. Luggage room is sadly a problem all german trains have.
But ICs are usually way cheaper then REs on normal tickets if you book ahead. On RE you can save money with the Deutschland ticket on long distance, but they are slow, noisy, uncomfy and you don't wanna use the toilets there.
The IC2 train looks very beautiful in my opinion 😊
I love IC 2
its a repainted Regional Express train nothing special
I just did this trip today...a day trip from Nuremberg to Stuggart and back. Train wasn't bad. I had a first class Eurail pass. First class was empty both ways so I got decent service. One complaint I had is it seemed the train rocked back and forth a bit much. All in all, not bad. On time both ways too.
Fun Fact at the price example you are showing at 5:55, you can use the IC Train from Norddeich Mole to Bremen Hbf also with the cheaper regional train ticket because here, the train is a replacement for a regional train due to the reason, that the RE 1 only drives every two hours.
Fun Fact, you can even ride an ICE for the same reasons and with the same condition as the regional train ticket (including the Deutschlandticket) between Rostock and Stralsund.
If you get the chance, i highly recommend testing the new NMBS/SNCB M7 coaches. I take them every week and while their comfort isnt the best, they are still lovely to ride on
Great video, at least they sell beer 🍺I've got no problem with the limited food, as long as they have beer. Its only a couple hours anyway from Nuremberg to Stuttgart.
I find the thumbnail really hilarious! Greetings from Germanya. 😂❤
Differences:
IC2 has:
-Good seats in 1st and 2nd class
-Doesn't smell like shit everyday 24/7
-More legroom
-Generally more space
RE have:
-Smelly rooms
-bad toilets
-icredibly dirty carriages
-EXTREMLY full(sometimes can't even board)
-NO FOOD
tell me if I forgor some💀
The RE1 in RLP (Süwex) even has food, or rather a guy with a snack car. This seems similar to the offer on the IC2. They're also not that dirty, but of course often quite packed.
It's not completely true, that these IC-services are cheaper then regional services. Berlin-Cottbus by RE will cost you 17€, but the (once daily) IC can be as low as 9€.
The older cars were delivered to Bulgaria and now i cant wait to see them in move!
Really like your videos and your German pronounciation is fantastic 👏
It is useful on the Hannover-Berlin route though, because with regional lines one has to take a long detour towards Magdeburg or Stendal, nearly doubling the travel time. (and the ICE is only 10 minutes faster)
You don't realize how much pain that adjustable headrest could avoid. I wish it was mandatory for all seats used in transportation.
I used one of these recently. In my opinion, it's just okay. Nothing really stood out to me, but it did the job... after a 15 minute delay caused by a faulty door.
On my second school trip to Berlin there was a guy who smoked a substance on the double decker train, and then my classmates wanted to eat at a restaurant where a lot of the guests were smoking regular cigarettes. It made me feel so sick that I told my friends that I had to go elsewhere to eat. We finally found a pizza place but I felt so sick that I told them I would throw up if I ate. They still forced me to eat and then I threw up next to a tree.
Everybody? I like the IC2 trains. In 1st class, they have a huge amount of single seats and a smooth ride, perfect for some work. For me, it's a huge upgrade compared to the old compartments.
i'm glad you mentioned the "overhead luggage racks" of the double decker trains. They are not.
I use the RE trains for my weekend commute, and i usually can't even squeeze a full backpack in them, let alone my actual luggage.
And unlike the luggage bays of the IC trains, on the REs you'll be lucky to squeeze something under your seat. Upstairs is basically off limits with luggage.
At least some of the older double decker models have a slightly higher luggage rack on the intermediate floors connecting the train cars, but still only once in a new moon.
(i used have, since we have so little rolling stock that it's actually rare to not ride in an old model of train 🙃)
This is made even worse by the fact, that RE trains seem to be THE mode of transport for weekend commuting where i am.
You almost always encounter more luggage than there is space for it
These trains look generations behind the Mariyung D sets that are in Sydney Australia.
The main problem with the double-decker regional trains is that there is not much space for luggage due to limited room overhead - basically just to put your hat and umbrella and then forget it there. On long distances, this is needed by an even larger proportion of the passengers. I see they sacrificed some seats for additional luggage areas (11:04) - I wonder if it works that well in the second class too?
Nice video. Greetings from a train dispatcher trainee between Crailsheim and Aalen
Awesome! Thanks for watching. :)
If you seriously claim that the IC2 interior doesn't look much different from the Regional Express, I suggest you take a look at one, which you obviously haven't had the chance to do yet. The interiors aren't automatically identical just because the seat covers are the same color.
Octoberfest is in Munich. In Nuremberg we have Volksfest
good job, I had a similar comment
There's indeed a RE train from Nürnberg to Stuttgart and return that runs every two hours and is just a bit slower than the IC2. A 2nd class trip costs you nothing if you're in possession of a 49€ DeutschlandTicket. The additional advantage is that you're totally flexible. The downside is that it doesn't go via Aalen and Schwäbisch Gmünd. It also doesn't go through to Karlsruhe (or Leipzig in the opposite direction). And Deutschland-Ticket is only 2nd class.
On some trains you could get an upgrade from 2nd class to 1st class (sometimes over the Internet, sometimes at the ticket machine, sometimes in the train and sometimes at on of 2 counters). It's a trick to find out who reads the 300 pages of transport conditions.
I think the screenshot you showed at 5:55 perfectly shows the issue.
It's a very similar looking train with a very similar level of comfort, but the price is more than double, almost triple.
And it only saves you 20 minutes of the train ride, in that case it's 8% faster.
11:35 really can't stress that enough, it's what I love about these carriages - they offer unbelievably smooth and quiet rides. And also great views if you are sitting on the upper level.
I for one like them (so not everybody hates them!). The only issue I had in the initial iteration was the missing storage for big luggage in the upper compartment. But I think that was somewhat fixed.
As a person who regularly commutes with these double-deckers since over 5 years, I must defend them.
In my experience, they are much more reliable than the same routes with ICE while being substantially cheaper.
I don't really mind the less "fancy" interior. The coaches really have everything one needs, the seats are comfortable, and the folding table is much more convenient with a laptop than most ICE tables. In my experience, the double-decker ICs are also less crowded than either ICE or RE, making them my favorite choice for medium distances.
Further, I would say, I find the lower deck nicer, as it shakes less and one still gets to see all the countryside, but that's just personal preference.
To me, the ICE is nearly perfect!
The arguement that these trains are for secondary IC-lines would make sense... However we are many who remember the InterRegio trains that filled that exact role, and THEY had a BordBistro coach and much better seating.
DB basically took away the IR services and re-introduced them in a worse version.
As a Bahncard 100 owner, I love these trains, because they are usually less full than the regional trains on the same connections, and the carpet just makes it feel more comfortable.
As long as you don't try getting to cities like Husum, which solely rely on IC service, can't you just walk into an ICE anyways if you are just intending on avoiding regional trains? Most ones around here either stop at the very same station as both the ICs and ICEs do or stop at stations, where even ICs don't stop.
The only problem with it being a IC instead if a RE is that you cannot ride them with most subscription tickets
I really liked these kind of trains when they initially appeared on the regional express lines. The trains are pretty comfortable for regional express standards. but not for a long distance intercity traveling up to 10 hours. Actually, these are not the first trains that do not fulfil the intercity standards. In the past, there was another train category below intercity called interregio that used really crappy cars. at some point, the cars were painted white, rebranded as intercity and the fares increased.
It’s supposed to be a larger distinction to the older IC trains. Previously, the only difference between the IC and ICE was speed, but this increases the difference and allows smaller destinations to get more long-distance trains due to lower cost of operation, while previous ICs get replaced with ICEs.
I really well made/edited video. Nice one Albs 👍
The latest upgrade for the ÖBB double decker wagons (regional train service) in the new "City Jet" design offers more comfort. The ICE 2 is really a train to avoid!
If they had still had a restaurant car, or even a buffet, I might have been able to overlook that these are clearly just RE commuter trains in a white frock. But the fact that DB did literally nothing but give them a new coat of paint is unacceptable. If I ever find myself in Germany again, I will avoid these trains like the plague. DB should be ashamed of themselves, but I'm pretty sure they sold the last of their shame to OBB along with NightJet. A sad reminder of when national rail providers try to treat their service like a business, and then run that business badly to the detriment of the customer.
Come to Canada, you'll be missing this luxurious train within minutes!
Wait how is that a "new train"? I've been riding this one for at least 5 years. And it's not that bad - avoiding the region train crowd is most of the benefit.
Even with IC paintwork, a local train does not become a high-quality long-distance train - in this country, they say: "repainted and cashed in." The double-deck IC trains are almost impossible to board comfortably due to the many stairs (people usually travel with large amounts of luggage on long-distance trains in Germany). The seats cannot be adjusted and the trains travel at a maximum speed of 160 km/h due to their design. For example, the journey on the longest double-deck IC line Cologne - Dresden, with a journey time of 7 hours, is torture. Conclusion: not recommended!
In the US, we can only dream about this level of comfort and service on a train.
US trains are far more confortable, the seats are much nicer
I think the criticism these trains face is correct, because they are marketed as Intercity, when in reality, they are more like the long defunct interregio trains.
If they were marketed and priced accordingly, far less people would complain.
In Germany we call them "Teppich-RE”. Teppich = carpet, RE = regional express (the red one shown in the video).Meaning it’s just a regional train with carpet installed. However I disagree on that, I like them.
The attraction at Nuremberg Central Station is that an Ogre from Altschauerberg sits on the "Zarendtein" in and Streams
What the hell? What's going you on mit you face?
The carpet is the most significant difference, because of that, insiders call the Trains "Teppich-RE" (carpet-regional-express).
Besides that, the cars are even worse than regional trains. Most of the regional trains are wheelchair friendly concerning the first level of the car. So the IC2 is pretty much the same (e.g. can't drive faster than 160Km/h), but wheelchair drivers can't use them that easily.
Not having read through all the comments I would like to note that there are two types of double-decker IC trains in service. This one that you show is indeed horrendous. When I first wrote it, I thought: what’s wrong? They also have a newer model, which can be very clearly distinguished because the entry doors are not double doors, but a big single sliding door. Those trains and turn are very comfortable, even in second class they include various different types of seating and the field is very comfortable. Of course it’s a shame that they don’t have a restaurant anymore, but from what I know, they are most used on routes (for example from Dresden to Rostock).
I was cool with it. As long as they sold beer I was satisfied with this trip. I did a day trip from Nuenmberg.
The seats in the old IC were so comfortable! More legroom and space for luggage.
Yup, I loved the old IC... ❤️
I'm a frequent visitor in BaWü and seeing the BWegt trains always makes me smile. In terms of livery only SBB can compete with this color scheme.
I visit Germany every two years or so, and judt had a trip in this double decker IC. I didn't expect it to be anything more than an RE in different livery. I had a 4+hr comfortable trip to Frankfurt Flughafen. No complaints.
I got a DB ad before this
As a Traindriver who drives these let me tell you: they are hated among us as well.
Edit:
Germanys tracks are not very good maintained. they are old and in need of maintenance.
I remember that in earlier days they used to "break down" on mid journey and needed a computer restart or something. Someone has told me that this sometimes took more than 30 minutes to get resolved. I think I had only one of these incidents where the train had to stop due to a "problem with the train", but I'm not sure whether this was related at all.
... Well the only valid concern being that the "cheaper" trains may harm the reliability/ quality long term, in that the maintenance exceeds the expectations of DB.. but having said that, I'd rather travel in a freshly cleaned, RE or even S (carpetless), half full, with clean, functioning and fully equipped toilets (with paper and soap...) than in an overfilled, litered and dirty ICE with broken and dirty toilets... There are simply more factors than the mere luxuriousness of the wagons.
The middle carriages look exactly like a regional train with the exception of a few small extra details. Which is why it is called the "carpet Regionalexpress". Personally i i like the Stadtler Units better and they are much faster aswell. I assume they downgraded the IC fleet with cheap dostos so that they can get more money.
Ansbach and Bach are really a coincidence: Bach is German for creek. That's the suffix -bach in the city names like Ansbach. Researching the genealogy of Johann Sebastian Bach shows, that his name should rather be Becker or Beck, as the earliest known ancestor of the clan was a baker (German: Baecker, from backen - to bake).
How, when and why they changed the K for an H remains unclear, but these two letters are very similarly shaped. Baptism-, marriage-and death registers were handwritten even in the 19th century, and people were almost illiterate even 200 years ago, which in combination caused the spelling of surnames' continuous metamorphosis.
1:44 if you have bahn bonus level silver, you have 10 visits free, if you have gold, you have entry privileges for the DB Lounge sans "Premium", both require a long distance ticket, regardless if bound for a train or not.
The nasty trickery pulled here by DB eludes you as you aren't aware of how old these cars are. Previously (like 15 years ago!) you could have the same car on routes for just 3-4€ (RE from Brandenburg to Berlin) per trip in normal class or 60€ for a month flat-rate. DB moved some of these train cars off their modular multi-head bidirectional RE train sets and now asks for 10x the price, for the same car and some carpet. This is why Germans aren't hype about this. In fact your video brought me back to my commuting days, right down to an eternal fear of these cars in summer. I called them bakery on rails. Because in hot summers you were the baked good, and DB did love to bake you......
For regional commute trains these were pretty good though.
In my opinion, they are okay. They run on most of the lines that didn't have an ICE or IC connection before. The quality of the REs can vary a lot, and the trains are packed at weekends, while the IC2 is often not as full because it can't be used with the Deutschlandticket.
I already had a rage moment when I saw that guy at 0:51 walk on the bikeway! STEP - 1 METER - TO - YOUR - LEFT! Damit... I need a potato to calm down...
As for the cost and benefit:
Sure you can ride all regional services when you already have the Deutschland Ticket, however if not: looking up the same trip in 2 weeks time (as you pre-booked your ticket 2 weeks in advance as well): riding regional express trains the ticket would be 46€ from Nuremberg to Stuttgart, and the trip would take 3 to more than 4 hours, up to twice as long as your InterCity train. More expensive and longer journey time ... in that case I'd definetly go for the InterCity
I did the journey in reverse and the train broke down. Probably due to one of Bombardiers software problems. I was 2 hours late as a result. Took months to get a refund. Basically DB repainted a regional train and sold it as intercity fooling no one.
I used to travel quite frequently between Nürnberg and Stuttgart and i wish i had these trains! Those old trains you saw? Thats what i rode, lol.😊